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- [00:02]
Howard Beck
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Raja Bell
summer vibe the best.
- [00:08]
Howard Beck
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- [00:18]
Howard Beck
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- [00:21]
Raja Bell
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- [00:25]
Howard Beck
See you this summer.
- [00:26]
Joe Me
Foreign.
- [00:34]
Logan Murdock
Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck and Raja Bell In a second we get to talking about OKC in San Antonio, the series that's going to seven games.
- [00:43]
Howard Beck
And then we just kind of talk
- [00:44]
Logan Murdock
about where each team is going in a potential Finals matchup against the Knicks. How do they fare? Probably pretty well. I mean we kind of know, you know, what the Western Conference teams hold and how they played throughout the season and how the Knicks have kind of had a cupcake postseason schedule. So we kind of level set expectations on both sides. And then Howard gets into his real one statement on what we feel as a collective about the lottery reform. So really, really good episode. Ruin of the week takes a turn. It's pretty fun. Quick programming note though, we will have one episode next week and that will be a special episode with myself, Brian Curtis and Joel Anderson from Press Box fame. We do our little collab. We we're doing a we're going to start an annual power rankings of NBA media. So we get into all of the streamers and networks and just see how they fared. This season as a collective was really, really fun. I love those guys. I love the Press box. They do great work there. Make sure you guys go check them out. Really, really fun episode. And then we are back. Me, Raja and Howard Beck on June 8th. We will be reacting off of game three of the NBA Finals. So tap in with that. We'll talk to you guys really, really soon. All the BLEEP Cliff Balenciaga Play the theme music.
- [02:07]
Howard Beck
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- [02:27]
Raja Bell
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- [02:30]
Howard Beck
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- [02:51]
Logan Murdock
What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck there. Roger Bell in the cut with the Texas football hat on. He's out here repping.
- [02:59]
Raja Bell
Yeah, because it's looking like that's looking rough today. So, like, I ain't had a time, so we're just.
- [03:05]
Logan Murdock
It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. What the are you gonna do? Like, that's what the OKC Thunder were asking after Game 6. The can we do. What can we do against this buzzsaw that happened the last podcast. Oh, Raja, you were basically. I listened back to it. You were basically putting OKC in the coffin and kind of digging the grave and A little bit. A little bit. A little.
- [03:32]
Raja Bell
That's a misrepresentation. Go ahead.
- [03:34]
Logan Murdock
A little bit. I'm gonna let you, you know, re restate your stance, but from what I remember, it was like, damn, it's. It might be over with for them. And then they won Game 5, and it was honestly one of their most impressive wins of the season. And then J Dub comes back into the lineup in Game 6 in San Antonio, and they get the brakes blown off of them. What did you like from Game five from okc and what did you see from OKC in San Antonio in Game six that gives you maybe a guide to where the series is actually going to go in Game seven?
- [04:07]
Raja Bell
Look, what I said remains true. And I thought you saw it play out last night, which was in the absence of multiple other playmakers for okc, shot creators, for themselves or others. I thought that San Antonio would be able to do a really good job with taking Shay out of the game. That did not happen in Game five. Like, my dad asked me yesterday, he was over to watch the game, and he asked me what I thought, and I said, you know what, dad? My confidence is a little low right now because I feel like I missed really bad in game five. I don't have a great answer for you. Home court. It seems to be a real thing in this series. Like, some of those guys on both teams seem to be way more comfortable in their more natural environment. Like, they seem to play better at home. I think as Wemby's energy goes and his activity goes, so does the game from time to time. You know, when he's active and he's shadowing the ball and he's challenging at the rim, without those multiple playmakers, OKC really struggles. I didn't think he was great in that respect in game five. And so, you know, a lot of people were able to kind of get going. I thought they did a fantastic job on Shay last night. And he's an incredible player, but he was already coming into the series like, you know, people were trying to take him out and he was. Of games that is. Sorry, like, but, you know, you saw the Lakers kind of shadow him in the backcourt and start doubling him. He was getting off the ball and he was already not like, maybe playing up to his optimum level, but he had a supporting cast to a large part that was able to handle that series and, and, and produce. And as you level up, it becomes harder and harder for them. And so now you got a guy who hasn't, like, he's not playing his best basketball ever, but he's also seeing a scheme that has given him a lot of problems. And he makes a lot of tough twos against one defender. He's able to create space. He's able to, you know, he shoots contested shots and he's really good at doing that. But now it's two defenders. It's, it's Wemby in a lot of instances, and it's that primary defender. And what Wemby behind you frees you up to do what Dikembe Mutombo freed me up to do what. What's Big Sean? What was Sean Bradley, you know, frees you up to do when you have that length and that shot blocking prowess around the rim is I can stay attached to you as a primary defender. I don't have to worry about you going by me. A lot of where Shai is so brilliant at scoring is as a defender, you don't want him to go by you all the time. So you react to every little faint, every little fake and you, and you back up and then he's shooting his jump shot right like, or like he gives you a little bump and you don't want to like, leave your feet or, or come back and get, get attached to him again because of fear of him stepping through and, and laying you. And you don't have to have that fear when Wemby, Dikembe, Sean Bradley are patrolling behind you. So as it relates to him offensively, if that defender doesn't have to go for any fakes because he's not worried about you going by him, it makes that contested too, that much more difficult. And he's, and he's struggling a little bit with that now. He was really good in game five. It's going to be a fantastic, like, Cinematic, hopefully, like moment. Because you're going to see either the dude who thought he should have got mvp, like stamp why he should have gotten mvp, or you're going to see Shay show you why he's a two time MVP in game seven. Like it's going to boil down to that. I don't know. I still maintain and I'm a little spooked off of it just because of how OKC looked in game five at home. They have championship pedigree. I've never doubted them. I've rode with them the entire season. But it wasn't under these circumstances with the lack of playmaking around him. And I'm worried, I'm worried about them. Look, I'm sorry, I'm just rambling. You know what? I don't want to hear from anybody on either side of the ledger. I don't want to hear no fucking crying. I don't want to hear crying, right, like for those San Antonio crying right now, scream and cry and foul bait. And now I'm watching segments on fucking your, your, your, your national TV with people breaking down foul baiting. Miss me with that bullshit? Like San Antonio played fucking rugby last night. And I don't want to hear no crying from OKC fans either.
- [08:48]
Logan Murdock
I want to stay on this really quick, Raja. I, I'm not gonna lie. One of the stories of the, of the, of the series is Wimby in the, in the last moments of Game 5, whispering to his teammates, hard foul. And they're fucking Jared McCain up. And then they're fucking sh. Shea Gilas, Alexander up. Right? I kind of, I kind of like the gamesmanship. I'm not mad at it. I wasn't mad at it when he was.
- [09:10]
Howard Beck
Do we know, do we know what he said or are we assuming what he said?
- [09:16]
Logan Murdock
Okay, the lip reader expert said that he was saying, hey man, go, go.
- [09:20]
Joe Me
I don't know.
- [09:21]
Howard Beck
I'm just saying people, people went wild with that. And it's like, I don't know that we have any reporting that makes that certain. That's, that's all I'm saying. I just, I, I hate when we start to, to make an assumption because we saw a fact pattern. Ooh, he whispered. Next thing you know, flagrant foul. Wemby ordered the code red. Do we know? I'm just saying before. We don't know, we assume.
- [09:44]
Logan Murdock
All right, all right. The question is, what do you think about the spurs kind of up Jared McCain in the last. Just kind. It seemed like they were trying to send a message. They did the push, Palmley did the push, and then the other center, I fucked him up too.
- [09:59]
Raja Bell
You know, I respect that. You know, I'm not, contrary to popular belief, like, I was never a guy that tried to hurt another opponent. Like, that wasn't what I did. I do know some guys who did that, including people that you wouldn't want to hear it from. But I do know dudes who practiced in that I was not one of them. However, within the rules, um, as long as you're not trying to hurt someone, I'm okay with the physicality. I'm okay with the message sending. I'm okay with the tone setting. It's not a problem for me on, on, on either side. I just, I don't love the discourse of, of, of and, and of just all the crying and the refs are on this side and the refs are on that side. Like, I don't, I don't love that. If it's going to be physical and that's the tone that the refs are allowing to, to, to be that game, then you have to adjust and you have to meet the moment and you have to figure out how to survive in that. And if it's going to be touchy nip and tuck, then you have to, you have to scale back and be able to acclimate to that kind of environment. And that's just always been the game. I, I, you know, I, I'm just that, that's kind of for me, been a bit of a turn off if I'm keeping it a buck.
- [11:10]
Logan Murdock
Do you think that, oh, first then Howard, when I was talking about it, I was just going off of what McCain said when basically not the lip reading necessarily, because you're right on there hasn't been reported on that, but it has been reporting from Jerry McCain talking about how he was at the free throw line and one of the guys were like, I got another one for you too. Now that's just normal banter, normal foul, normal NBA banter and basketball banter. But like, they very clearly look like they were going after him. But my question to you, my, my question to you is how are we going to remember this series? Right? Because like what I don't want to, we, we tend to do this especially with online discourse where we're just like, oh, it was about the files, the conspiracies. The third eyes are open for this. Right? But I think that that in this case, as Roz is alluding to, it's really undercutting how great this series has been the theater of this series, the two teams going at each other. And I get it right when you talk about the national shows, they gotta build in content and they have to field it with things that they think are going to get clicks. But do you think that we're going to remember the bullshit or are we going to remember how great this series is when it's all said and done?
- [12:17]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [12:17]
Howard Beck
And just to be clear, I have no doubt in my mind that the spurs were trying to send a message with the hard foul on McCain. Whether or not Wemby was the one who, like, ordered it or whatever, that's the part that I think is at least a little ambiguous in social media and everywhere else. And traditional media runs a little bit wild in, in connecting the dots. And maybe that was what happened. I'm just saying. And I don't mind that. As long as it's not too vicious, as long as it's not to hurt. If it's just like hard fouls that are message sending. Going back to Raj's days in the league, like, dude, that's just part of basketball and especially playoff basketball, and that's fine. Like, sometimes you're going to be a little bit over the line for other purposes. It's fine as long as it's not to hurt anybody. As long as it's not too over the top. They did give Plumley the, the retroactive flagrant foul one, not two. So they like the league recognized what it was and they're kind of like, all right, that's fine. But it wasn't, it wasn't over aggressive to the point where they said A two or, or anything else like that. To Raja's point about the people whining Raja, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's mostly the fan bases and some media members way or another.
- [13:31]
Raja Bell
That's what I meant. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:33]
Howard Beck
There's a lot of rage baiting going on. There's a lot of just stupidity in general going on about this. And like, I, I'm like you, I don't give a. About any of that stuff. These guys are. Everybody's playing hard sometimes. The, the calls, you know, the refs don't catch everything. Calls go one way, they go the other way, whatever. I'm a big believer. And it all evens out in the end. And the referees are not dictating the outcome of any particular game or the series or overall, these teams are really evenly matched. We've had some great games. It's been weird because, like, On a composite basis, like, I think the average margin of victory in the series is now like 3. I think the, the average score is like 113 to 110 in favor of the Spurs. If I'm scrolling, reading correctly quickly here, so it looks close. But we've had some, a bunch of lopsided games. Like, game one was fucking epic. And ever since then it's, it's been kind of like back and forth, but, but we've seen this before, right? Like one of these days I'll look it up to remember which one it was. But one of those Heat spurs finals, it went like this. Somebody win by 20 and we go, that's it, it's over. They figured it out. And then the next game, the other team would win by 20 and we'd
- [14:38]
Logan Murdock
get these 2013 NBA Finals 2013.
- [14:41]
Howard Beck
There you go. Thank you. I think there was probably a lot of Danny Green three threes going on at the time. So there's, there's, you have this, you have these big swings sometimes even if the teams are really evenly matched, it doesn't mean every game is decided by two points. It just means either team is capable of blowing out the other. We're capable of having everything go down to the wire. Overtime, double overtime. Shit, man. Game seven may just be that. It may just be one big battle of attrition to, you know, down to, to, you know, it'll be like, you know, Rocky versus Apollo. Whoever can stand up first before getting called for the knockout. Like it's going to be like that. And that's great. We, we've seen some great basketball. The thing I'm going to remember most, I think at this point with the series not quite over yet, is Wemby and the way he has conducted himself for better and worse throughout that he had this like absolute dud of a game 5. Looked lifeless out there, had no pop, what whatsoever. And then skips post game. Doesn't do media. You know, a guy who we at the Pro Basketball Writers association gave our highest award to, the Magic Johnson Award for, for his, you know, consistent cooperation with, and openness with the media, and he blew us off. It's fine. Everybody does it at some point. It's not great. But it showed something about his mindset that that night, right. Like he was in a bad space so he decided he couldn't do it. And he's been really curt during this series in general too. This is a guy who's usually very good natured, really open, doesn't mind telling a story Here and there, giving some perspective. And he's like, like, his. His quotes have been chopped, man. And he couldn't wait to get out of that post game with Ashley Shamati from. From NBC the other night. Like, it was like two quick answers and bam, I'm gone. I. I take it as. It's not. It's not about the media. It's just about him being, like, super focused, probably feeling the full weight of all this. He's 22 years old. He's in the conference finals for the first time his life. He's in the playoffs for the first time in his life, and he's in a battle with the defending champs. And the guy's got all the weight of the world on him. We can go into, like, past greats and how long it took them to make the finals or even this stage. He's 22, and like, I. The way he rallied in game six and just came out firing from the top. Couple quick threes, a blocked shot, alley oop. Like, he was everywhere again.
- [17:02]
Logan Murdock
I'll go 10.
- [17:03]
Raja Bell
I'll go 10. Whatever the goal, either way, the energy, I loved it. The energy was there.
- [17:09]
Howard Beck
The energy was there. He was awesome. But this, dude, this is exactly what we want to see from the greats, right? You're not going to be great every night. And then, especially when you're 22 and you're like, in this. This is the first time. We're like, oh, well, maybe. Maybe the moment's too big for him or maybe he's just gassed. Maybe this is it. Maybe he's got nothing left to see him rally like that. You don't have to be a Spurs fan or Wemby fan and go like, that was fucking awesome. That was really inspiring. That's really cool. This is what we want to see from the. From the greats and the guys who are on their way to being, as he probably is, an all time great. So that was fantastic. So I'm going to remember that. We're going to remember the injuries, unfortunately, on both sides and especially on the Thunder side of this. And Jalen Williams, J Dub seemed like kind of a, you know, a shadow of himself in game six. We'll see.
- [17:55]
Logan Murdock
Raja was right.
- [17:57]
Howard Beck
If there's much left.
- [17:58]
Raja Bell
I hope I'm wrong. I hope, I hope, I hope he just. They should. I don't know. Yeah, I probably was right. Anyway, keep going.
- [18:04]
Howard Beck
You want to shut.
- [18:05]
Raja Bell
That injury sucks.
- [18:05]
Howard Beck
You're just. Yeah, you just want to shut everybody down. That's all you want to. You want to just keep Jason Tatum on the sidelines. Now you want Jay W.
- [18:14]
Logan Murdock
Don't need to read it.
- [18:15]
Raja Bell
I work
- [18:18]
Logan Murdock
Raj's emails with the emails.
- [18:27]
Howard Beck
It's an incredible series. I. We're going to remember that more than anything. Unfortunately, we're all also going to remember a lot of nonsense of people's like stupid Instagram reels of, you know, there's all the times that Shay fell down and all this crap. Like, I don't care.
- [18:40]
Logan Murdock
You know what's funny? I just looked at it. I was funny. There was a. I was gonna ask Roger's opinion on this, but it was. There was a reel that just came out. It was one of the sites. I'm not going to give him credit, but it was like, oh, look at all the times that Shay got Wimby on a switch. He's cooking him. Then I look at the stats and Shay's shooting like 37 against Wimby. One on one with women's guarding him like that. Dissonance is crazy. But I, I do want to. I do want to stay on. I want to stay on Wimby for a second. It's weird, Howard and Raja, because yes, he is 22, but this dude has been playing competitive professional basketball for a very long time, right? And I was thinking like, you know, I had two thoughts on this. Like, yeah, this is his first postseason, but damn, two years ago we saw this dude on a national stage playing against the Avengers of Team USA Basketball and playing toe to toe with them in a gold medal game, right? Like he has the experience of playing in big time games. So, like, he's not the normal superstar that we're used to where it's like they come into the fold and they're playing at this level and they may not be ready for the spotlight, right? And on the other end, I'm like, Damn, he is 22 going up against this. But solve okc. I don't know which one to to trust at.
- [19:57]
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- [21:28]
Logan Murdock
so good, so good, so good.
- [21:30]
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- [21:51]
Logan Murdock
That's why you rack this very particular moment. But the question that I have for Raja right now is what have you thought about the transformation that Howard has talked about with Wimby? What have you seen from him? And the other question that goes in with that question, I put in seven questions at one time for you. Just throw it all, the kitchen sink at you. The second question to that is, can you talk about how that that transformation relates to the ups and downs of a series? Right. Where you're going one game you're going to get blown out and the other game you're going to figure yourself out. What does a seven game series like this bring out of a guy like Wimby? Yeah, well, feel free to take your time on that. I gave you a lot.
- [22:35]
Raja Bell
Yeah, look, the, the arc of anybody coming into the NBA in terms of their, their experience arc and their acclimation arc. Everyone has one when they're coming into the NBA, especially as it relates to playing playoff basketball. Like there's, there's an arc of acclimation in the regular season and then there's one for the playoffs. I think that the European player that has pro experience has a shortened arc, you know, like our grassroots basketball, you know, doesn't necessarily set you up
- [23:11]
Howard Beck
for
- [23:11]
Raja Bell
that pro experience the way that their model does. So, you know, I think that your Lucas and your Wemby's and your Yokiches, I think their arc is shorter in terms of being able to get from relative inexperienced through the failures and then understanding the level that they need to play at to thusly succeed.
- [23:32]
Logan Murdock
Right.
- [23:32]
Raja Bell
So I think you see Wemby's, you know, you said he played in the, in the gold medal game and you know, he's had pro experience, so he's gotten to a point really quickly. And that's part of the reason, like the spurs were probably preseason, a lot of people weren't really sure. Because you expected that arc to take a lot longer than it has. Right. Like he's gotten there relatively quickly. And how it manifests itself through a seven game series is just what Howard said. Like you could, you know, most young players find it difficult to rebound in high pressure situations that are coming at you pretty quickly. And that's what this playoff round is coming at you every other day. And you know, the word that you use or that I always use with, with younger players when you're looking for them to take that next step is consistency. And consistency is, is just, you know, being there, being present, being at a benchmark level every night that's going to give us a chance to be competitive and win. And a young player's ability to do that is ultimately what levels them up. They're always going to flash. Those superstars when they're babies, they're young, they're going to flash. They're going to have games where they flash all over the place and you're like, yeah, that's it. But it's. Can he capture that over and over again in a way that puts you in position to win four out of seven? And so you know what you're looking for for Wemby or anyone else for that matter, that's kind of, you know, ascending into that, that light is like, yo, how quickly can they bounce back? Does it take them two games, the series is over. Like if, if game five rolled into game six for Wemby, it's a fucking rap. But if they can get over that and bounce back and be ready to go and, and know that the responsibility lies with them to lead the charge in game six, emotionally, physically. You know, I've been impressed with seeing him Lead huddles and command his group,
- [25:23]
Logan Murdock
put his arm around people.
- [25:25]
Raja Bell
Yeah, a lot of that kind of stuff has been really fun to watch. And, you know, leadership is organic and different for everyone. So, like, not everyone has the same style. But, you know, when I talk about leaders, I talk about guys that however they do it, they connect people. You know, they. They keep you. They keep you tethered to the message and the goal. Because believe it or not, a lot of guys are wanderers, bro. Like, they're on a team, they're good players. But, you know, you snap your fingers and they're like, huh? What? And before you know it, he's fucking on a side quest, and you're like, yo, nah, dog, you gotta come back over here. Like, we, this is what we're.
- [25:59]
Logan Murdock
Why are you in Austin? We're in San Antonio right now. Get back here. Get over here. Come here. Come here. Yeah.
- [26:03]
Raja Bell
Physically or mentally, right? Like, hey, buddy, where. Where are you? And I think he's done a fantastic job of that. But, you know, obviously, and equally as important is what he's been able to do physically. Into the weeds a bit about being able to recover for game six when you. It wasn't. I missed shots. There are different types of bad games that you would have to recover from.
- [26:30]
Logan Murdock
Right.
- [26:31]
Raja Bell
There's a bad game that you look like your normal self, but you went 3 for 17 because the ball wouldn't go in the basket.
- [26:38]
Logan Murdock
Yeah.
- [26:39]
Raja Bell
Now that. That's a hard recovery because there's some mental like, hey, bro, I'm good. I'm this level of player. Let's, let's flush that. We're going to come out and be aggressive. I'm going to make shots. I trust my work. Right? Yeah, but the physical. You don't look like yourself, Dud. That was. Game 5. Requires another level of professionalism to recover from because our body, we have to find the body again. And what goes into finding the body is unique to every player. But, like, there's a, there's a, a level of, of. Of treatment that's required. There's a level of rest that's required. There's a level of fuel that's required. There are a lot of things that go into even just getting the body back from game five to game six and then obviously being able to play and, and, and, and you're flying, you
- [27:27]
Logan Murdock
know, you're trying to get your mind right. Cause you're flying back.
- [27:29]
Raja Bell
No, but young players can struggle with that. Young players can struggle with that, Logan. So, like, I, you know, it's it's been impressive. I mean, I don't know that I answered that great, but it's been pretty impressive.
- [27:38]
Logan Murdock
Hey, Howard, he did the thing again. He did the thing again. You know what I'm talking about?
- [27:42]
Raja Bell
I just get talking dog. I just get to talking. I, I, Sorry, Howard.
- [27:46]
Logan Murdock
You know what I'm talking about where he does the, where he says, oh, I probably said some dumb, but he does some, some says like a brilliant nugget.
- [27:53]
Raja Bell
I didn't know if I answered the question, if I answered it. You know what I mean, what you were looking for.
- [27:57]
Logan Murdock
But, but like, yeah, I love the leadership, though, of, of Wimy and I think the other thing, Leadership is a dance, man. Sometimes it's taking, you know, some arm around like a young player. Like, how was it, was it Carter Bryant that he took aside and was like, it's okay after Carter Bryant got yelled at, right? But it's also the other thing where he's like, he sees Harrison Barnes and he's getting, he's actually getting leadership from Harrison Barnes on the sideline, right in getting game. And he's also big in his coach up, right. He does feel like a connector even when he gets ejected. I feel like you want to run through a wall for him even after he did some dumb shit. Like, you think about the elbow that he had on Naz Reed. What was the first thing he did when he got ejected? He clapped his hands. He shook everybody's hand. He dabbed up the security guard and was like, we got this deal. Like, I'm sure he apologized afterwards in private settings, but he, it was always about team, team, team, team. And that also extends, I believe, to the San Antonio fan base. Right? And like, I think he's transformed that city in that fan base in a way. Right, because it's more of a soccer environment. Like, if you look at San Antonio back, even when you played Raja, it's like it feels night and day the environment of San Antonio when you go on the road for a playoff series now with the colors, with everything that's going on around where they, you know, go into the middle of the court and they, they, the team acknowledges the fans. It just seems like he has his imprint on so many different things with San Antonio. And that's been dope to see. And I, I don't know how long this is going to, to last or what this is going to mean, Howard, but I just really like what I'm seeing from a leadership standpoint from Wimy, even as he goes through his Ups and downs as a player, both from a physicality standpoint and a game standpoint. Night to night.
- [29:44]
Raja Bell
Duh.
- [29:44]
Logan Murdock
Okay. I was just. Anybody had anything. Are we good on that? And is there anything.
- [29:48]
Howard Beck
Nope. It was a statement question. So, you know.
- [29:51]
Logan Murdock
Oh, okay. I. Listen, I don't know. I'm sorry. Okay, so we go. Where else should we go with this? Okay, all right, we got. All right, all right, all right, we got.
- [29:58]
Raja Bell
Can I just. Can I. Can I say one thing, though? Like, I just want to.
- [30:01]
Logan Murdock
Please.
- [30:01]
Raja Bell
Has nothing to do with the Wemby and the. Is there any chance, like, as I'm watching some of these and the reason the discourse has gotten to me a little bit, Howard, from, like, the fans and the media is, is because, you know, a lot of my conversations deal with 17 and 18 and 14 year olds. So, like, they're getting that information and then it's trickling up to me, if you will. Right. So, like, their vision of what the player is, is largely being shaped by all of these TikTok videos or whatever. And. And I find that to be really unfortunate because, you know, Shay's a player that I would have Ty study and shy had. And Ty, my middle boy, had a real affinity for his game and was trying to take some things. And now it's now like his. His opinion of it is being shaped by this bs. I just want to say one thing and I want to ask because I've watched him a bit, and what I don't think anyone's talking about is there are times where you go to the ground because it's more beneficial to go to the ground to mitigate the risk of injury than it is to try to land in the actual plane that you would have to land in given the circumstances. And I saw one the other night where there was a clear foul on Darren Fox where he went out and he just basically bumped both of Shay's legs in the air. But if you come down and try to land in your original space, so high likelihood that you roll the shit out of an ankle, where if you just kind of give way with those legs and accept the fall. They do it with quarterbacks all the time, right? Like, sometimes it makes more sense rather than to fight that fall and wind up concussed or otherwise, like, roll with the fall, like, embrace.
- [31:45]
Logan Murdock
When you, as a quarterback, when you do that, when you stand up, you invite other people to tackle you and get at your legs, it's just like, give up. That's. That's. That's what you're Saying, Right. Like, as opposed to just standing up and, like, having, like, four different linemen that wouldn't otherwise hit you. Actually hit you.
- [31:59]
Raja Bell
Yeah, like. Well, for instance, they used to teach. And I don't know, like, I'm not like, maybe they're teaching D or something different at Texas, but they used to teach, like, you know, stand in, stand. Now sometimes they teach like, yo, release it and. And back out of there. Like, get out of there. You know what I mean? Like, flip it and. And retreat, because someone might be coming at your knees or even. Even as you're getting tackled. Logan, like, they're teaching them how to, like, go with the actual tackle and, And. And how to protect themselves in. In the role out of the tackle. So you're not putting your collarbone at risk or you're not putting the back of your head at risk, like slamming your head on the ground. Yeah, And I just. I. I was thinking about it, watching some of the Tiktoks and stuff. Like, man, I wonder if some of that is, like, sure, there's an element of selling fouls. I'm not saying it doesn't do that, but I've seen multiple ones where you're like, hey, I'm in a crowd. Um, if I come down, I could roll my foot on any one of these six other feet that are in here. Like, why don't I just go down and. And mitigate the risk? I. It was just a thought. I don't know.
- [33:01]
Logan Murdock
I. No, when you were talking about that, I think one of the underrated qualities of Shay is just how much he can use his body. Right. I think that we're so enamored with the. The whatever you call foul baiting, but after his. The last postseason that he had, he gotten. You know, normal people are going to go back in the gym and work on their shots that they didn't, you know, the shots that they need to get better at or a part of their game where that they need to get better at is basically what they do. What he was doing was. There was videos that were coming out about him just working on his balance, right. And his. All of his. His. It wasn't like weight bearing stuff. It was basically, I don't know, the actual, like, movements that he was doing, but everything that he was doing was working on balance and working on his body and how he was going to keep his body correct. And this is the guy that really knows his body and knows. And just, like, how you were saying where to fall, where to do things. And I think that's an underrated part of, like him as a basketball player that young kids should learn. It's not always just like, I got to work on my shot. I got to work on how, how to sometimes how to fall, how to figure out where I can get into the lane and, and get our shots right and how I can, you know, cerebrally get through the game. But one thing that you were talking about that was just that, that made me think about it was those videos, just him. It wasn't like, I'm getting in the gym and I'm going to get a thousand shots up. No, I'm going to actually just work on the balance of my body. And that was fascinating. One thing I want to get to before we talk a little bit about the Knicks. How do you see both of these teams against the Knicks? Because we're not going to be talking until again, until end of game three. And I want to make sure that, you know, our listenership at least like has a, has a gauge from us of what we think about a potential final series from either one of these teams. I'll start with Howard. What, what do you think? What do you, how do you think each team kind of matches up and what excites you about each team about the Knicks? And how do you kind of see it going with each team?
- [35:02]
Howard Beck
Yeah, I mean like there's the obvious top line storylines here, right? If it's the Thunder against the Knicks, you've got the Thunder trying to go for back to back to be the first back to back champions since 1718 with the warriors, the first team to even get to back to back finals since 1819 with the Warriors. And so there's like just, we're, we're at an interesting point in testing the duration of this era of extreme parody where no one can repeat and no one can even get back. So there's that part of it. And then on the Knicks side of it, if they're going up against the Thunder, like what an incredible opportunity to go up against, you know, the defending champs with a stacked roster with three, three guys who have been all NBA. Obviously J Dub did not make it this year because he'd been injured and is unfortunately hurt now as well. But Chet and Shay and a really experienced crew there, two incredible home crowds. Like, I haven't been to San Antonio in a while. I have no doubt there that the spurs home crowd would also be incredible. But, but I came out of those games in Oklahoma last year and trust me, Indiana was loud, but Oklahoma was at a even Higher level. I, I thought I was going to go deaf. I should have brought earplugs. I didn't. And look, I've been to a lot of games in the Garden. This is not on the Garden. It was, it was louder in Oklahoma. I'm just telling you, man, like, I've never thought like my brain was going to explode from how loud it was as Oklahoma. And you know what, sometimes it's acoustics of the arena and everything else. There's other elements at work, but I'm just telling you. So we'd have a really super intense series there if it's the spurs. Look, I mean, and everybody's talked about this in anticipation of this. The idea of Victor Wembanyama, who to a lot of us looks like the. Is going to be the new face of the league when Steph and LeBron and KD step away. And he has the, he has the game. I think he has the personality. He's, he's built for this. Victor Wembanyama at Madison Square Garden. I mean, could, could the, could the NBA want anything more? Could it, could basketball fans want anything more?
- [36:59]
Logan Murdock
NBA can't lose with these, with the. They cannot lose with these matchups.
- [37:03]
Howard Beck
That's not a knock on Shane, those guys either, by the way. But Victor is different. He just is. And we don't talk about Shea as potentially being the face of the NBA because he is so reserved and has given very little of himself personality wise. Logan and I talked about this during, during All Star with Tyler Parker. But Wemby is like. And also because Wemby's just like, you know, he's a physical freak of nature. He's 75 and, you know, you know, could shoot logo shots and then block shots at the other end. There's no losing here for, for any of us in the, the broader NBA community. Like, either way it's going to be incredible. And I think either way we'll get to this in the next segment, but I think either way, I do think the Knicks have a bit of an uphill climb. Like these two teams are young and stacked.
- [37:51]
Logan Murdock
What are you looking forward to, Raja?
- [37:53]
Raja Bell
Yeah, no, I, I mean, well said, Howard. I do think that I would agree with, with the sentiment about the, the Knicks facing an uphill climb against either one of these guys. I think, you know, both teams have the type of personnel defensively that you could, you could find the best scenario on Jalen Brunson. You might not get it right the first time, but someone on your roster will slow him down. Better than the others. No one's going to stop him. But I think they have the personnel to kind of, you know, kind of work through until they found what, what, what the best look would be. Some people just don't have an answer for him at all. You know, they, they both teams have enough length and size where, where they present a problem around the rim with the two in, in Oklahoma City and then, you know, Wemby obviously in San Antonio. So I think there's some formidable challenges for the Knicks. I would say this though, and I just go back to, you know, a few things they have going for them. Most people feel this way about them and they'll have a weekend change to stew on that. That's just an organically, you know, stoked internal fire and will to want to prove everyone wrong. The rest that they've banked, you know, through two series. Now that's going to show up at some point, right? Because we are seven games and this has been really physically a demanding series for both teams. And I would just, I would say this. There's a chance that the Knicks come out of the gate after the layoff a little rusty, haven't been the hottest team maybe in the NBA, right. But I do think that going on the road for that game is a win for them. Because if you're at home and you do that like they did with Cleveland, let's say, came out, looked rusty, didn't play well and you lose that home game, well, the series is flipped immediately. But if you're on the road and that happens to you through the first half of a game or so, well, you're supposed to lose that game anyway. So if you then just find it in game two, you've done what you went there objectively to do, which is get that one win and let's flip this series and get back home. So I think they have some things working for them, but it's going to be tough from a, from just a physical, you know, on paper standpoint, you know, it's an uphill climb. But I think they got some things working in their favor.
- [40:17]
Logan Murdock
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- [40:47]
Raja Bell
Terms apply.
- [40:49]
Joe Me
You know who we be Joe me back with another edition of Pack Watch. And this is a special one, ladies and gentlemen, because we're not packing an entire team. No siree, Bob. We're packing up one man, and he goes by the name of James. Jim. Jimbo Hardin. It's that time of year, folks. Listen, if you were a time traveler and you traveled back to any time post 2012, and you were like, yo, what year? What year am I? And then you was like, yo, did James Harden choke in the postseason? You couldn't tell which year you were in because he does this every year. Now, I know that he has great playoff games. He's got a lot of great playoff games. But like friend of the pod, Bomani Jones always says, it's the last game of the postseason. That'll get you with James, buddy. It was Bricksville, okay? And it'd be one thing to go out on your sword, right? To fight and get swept.
- [41:47]
Howard Beck
Even.
- [41:48]
Joe Me
Even if you get swept. Even if you get swept, you go. You lay down the line for the city of Cleveland, okay? That's what you're supposed to do, right? Forget paid $40 million. You're supposed to die on that sword for your team, for the badge. And what did he do? He laid an egg, like he always does in the last game of the season. Because that's who he is. That's who James Harden is. And it's a shame. He's so talented. The regular season, he's a workhorse. The man can play. But when you need him, in your dying moments, when the air is escaping your breath, well, you have nothing else left to believe it except for Jim.
- [42:35]
Logan Murdock
He won't be there for you.
- [42:38]
Joe Me
And it's a. It's a shame. It's a damn shame. So sorry, all you Jim Harden fans out there. I know it's been hard pretty much every year since, you know, 2019, but
- [42:55]
Raja Bell
this is.
- [42:55]
Joe Me
This is who he is. I try to fight it as long as you did, but the evidence speaks for itself. Jimmy, welcome to Pack Watch.
- [43:07]
Howard Beck
Start with rust versus Rust, right? Cause we've talked about this a lot in this postseason because the Knicks keep blowing people out in four games, and then they keep getting teams that have gone to seven, which is going to happen yet again here. The best reference point, of course, is the one that Raja was involved in and that I covered. The Lakers were off for 11 freaking days between their last Western Conference playoff series when they went 11 and oh, because back then it was best to five first round. So they went, you know, wins four, four. This is in 2001. They face Raja's Sixers. You guys win game one. Raja. I, I, as a beat writer, I'm looking at that and going, yeah, the Lakers are like, kind of like sluggish, you know, they like you, you know, you guys, you beat them. It was overtime. You know, Iverson had an incredible game, everything. And then the Lakers smoked you guys the next four games. But I, I, I do think there was something to it. They've been offer 11 freaking days. Shaq's on air the other night saying it was like 10 days. He's wrong, it was 11. He's saying that they had a, a, a, a parade at Disneyland in the meantime. I don't think that ever happened. But did you guys go in Raja thinking this team's going to like, did you think you had an edge? The Lakers had been off for a week and a half and did you, do you remember seeing it in them at all? I know it's a long time ago now.
- [44:25]
Raja Bell
Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, they may have Howard. I don't know. That was never communicated to me and I was so low on the totem pole and so it was also foreign to me.
- [44:34]
Logan Murdock
Yeah.
- [44:34]
Raja Bell
That I didn't have any thoughts about anything really. So I can't, I can't answer that one. I didn't even know.
- [44:41]
Howard Beck
You were just staring into the bright lights.
- [44:43]
Raja Bell
That's all that was happening to me at the time.
- [44:46]
Howard Beck
All right. Figured it was worth asking since you've been involved. No, but, but if you most extreme version of this.
- [44:51]
Raja Bell
But what also happened and what people don't, you know, really remember about that series is I'm pretty sure George lynch got hurt in game two. Like I wound up with a calf or something like that. Like soft tissue injury in game two. Like people, you know, not that that series would have changed, but that's what happens when you've played that much basketball. Like my ass was probably just out of shape because I hadn't played that much basketball. But like George lynch had been holding it down for a long time. And that wasn't a, that was an attrition injury. Right. Like that was like, hey man, you got so many miles on you in these playoffs and then we're asking you to get on a flight, go to la, and now you're hurt. So, you know, to your point, yes, some rust and might have cost them up front, but once they Got cooking and the Russ was knocked off the bodies that, that we were throwing at them like they were to, to a large degree spent.
- [45:43]
Howard Beck
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:44]
Logan Murdock
You guys went through a lot. You guys went through a lot, bro. In that postseason, you guys had what, three, five. You said a five game series when it was best of five in two, seven game series. You guys basically played all the allocated games that were there for you going into that final. Then you got to fly cross country for a finals game. Are we, this is the question that Howard have pre pot. Are we giving the Knicks a little bit too much credit? Are we, Are we, are we sipping too much of the Kool Aid of the Knicks right now at this point? Or do we think, do we think the Knicks are better than they are going into this series?
- [46:16]
Raja Bell
Are. You're asking me?
- [46:18]
Logan Murdock
Yeah, asking you.
- [46:20]
Raja Bell
No, no.
- [46:21]
Logan Murdock
Are we properly rating them at this point? I'm talking about as a collective.
- [46:25]
Raja Bell
They're in the final, they're in the finals. What are we doing? No, I'm not. I, I don't. No one on here. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. I mean there are a few pods I've missed. Has anyone come on here and said that? They're like, hey man, world, I think we've been pretty level about the Knicks.
- [46:40]
Logan Murdock
I'll say this. I believe as a writer, I'm slated to go to Game 7 of the NBA Finals. I'm not banking on going. I'll say all that. I'll say that. I'm not banking on that trip.
- [46:50]
Howard Beck
Right, Raj? I would, I would think of it through this lens. The, the Knicks, when the playoffs started, I don't think we're favored to come out of the East. And teams change, teams evolve. And then teams, teams get on a roll and like you're not the same team that you were in like February or March. And so that's fine. I think that they've shown that the sheer dominance. Fucking just destruction. The, the, the, the way laying waste of the entire east that they have done over the last month, I think has projected the Knicks now as a dominant force. That when I write last week, or was it earlier this week, whenever it was, I had a piece about how the whole league is trying to figure out like, oh my God, how do we even deal with the Thunder and Spurs? They're both young, super deep, super talented and could be great for years to come. And I'm getting some pushback from people going, whoa, whoa, whoa, hey, what about the Knicks? And I'm like, it's A little different because it's the way these teams are built. I think people understand there's a. Most people understand there's a difference. But the Knicks have been so incredible. Their 11 game streak that they're on right now. So they've only lost twice in the, in the playoffs at all. Two, you know, two games in the first round of the Hawks somehow. Eleven game streak, their margin of victory in that streak, Raja, is the largest point differential of any 11 game streak in NBA history, regular season or playoffs. And because of that, I think we're now putting them on this, this pedestal is the wrong word, but they're projecting as this massive dominant force that's just unstoppable themselves. And I don't know that I'm quite. I. We're all swept up in it. I'm in New York. It's hard not to get swept up in it. I just think I want to tap the brakes a little bit. It's not, it's not that they're not great, it's just, I think they're. We'll get into this in a minute. I've got a few things I want to hit. I just think that this is a whole different challenge they're about to.
- [48:35]
Raja Bell
Yeah, look, I would. First of all, this isn't to disrespect or diminish anything that the Knicks have done in any way, shape or form, but the east was a bit of a mess. There was, there was some real flawed teams there in the Eastern.
- [48:51]
Logan Murdock
I think it's, it's one of the worst eastern conferences I've races I've ever seen.
- [48:54]
Raja Bell
Yeah, it was a real mess.
- [48:56]
Howard Beck
I was tempted to compare it to like back when the Nets went to back to back finals, the New Jersey Nets and like they. All they had to do was beat like the Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker Celtics. All due respect to hall of Famer Paul Pierce, but those were some shit, I shouldn't say shit teams. Those were not teams that anybody was fearing. And when the Nets came out of the east against the Lakers and then the spurs, it was obvious the Lakers and Spurs were going to roll them because the east was a dumpster fire.
- [49:23]
Raja Bell
I'm sorry, Howard, like, to your point, I was on the 03 Mavs team that lost to the spurs to get a chance to play the Suns and Dirk, you know, Dirk hurt his knee and Steve Kerr hit all those damn threes and we just nelly kept us in a zone. But the point is both teams were looking at the east like we wanted. Whoever gets out of this has won a championship. Yeah, like that. That was the sentiment at the time. Like I remember that you asked me about Philly. I didn't remember but oh three because I was playing and I had been in the league a little bit more. Like I remember like if we get out of this we are. This is championship and I want to
- [50:00]
Howard Beck
make and to be clear. So back then we would always talk about the Western Conference finals was the real finals. And I think in this season we were thinking as the playoffs began the Western Conference finals especially if it's Thunder spurs will be the real finals. I don't think anybody's saying that now and I'm not going to make that case now either. The Knicks absolutely have a chance. It's not. It's not the way it was. When you're talking about in the early 2000s or that I was talking about the early 2000s. Right. We're not at that extreme. But there was a sense of that a few weeks ago before the Knicks got on this roll.
- [50:27]
Raja Bell
Yeah, well, I mean look again I thought the east was a little bit of a mess. Kudos to whoever could come out of that. It's not your fault. Like you go out there and play and you did it. But I think I've always been careful with saying exactly who I thought they were which was the hottest team in the NBA. I thought they got hot at the right time and they were playing the best version of basketball that they could play at the most opportune time to play it. That's completely different than being an all time type of championship or bust type of team. I've been clear. I think we have. I know what markets do and my wife's a Knicks fan and I got a bunch of Knicks fans that are family now. So I know how they can do. But clearly I think whoever comes out of the west has a decided advantage from just team the team that was built the overall record over the course of the season. Like there are a lot of advantages. But I would be remiss if I didn't again say that I can see for a team if they can recapture the way they were playing prior to the break. Some baked in like points of. Of of of silver lining for them. The Knicks. That is right. And there are some. But I would not have them pick to be. You know this. I wouldn't pick this series to go seven necessarily to start.
- [51:49]
Logan Murdock
Right.
- [51:49]
Raja Bell
I'm with you Logan. I don't know that you're cashing in on that game seven opportunity.
- [51:55]
Logan Murdock
Yeah, I Don't think, I don't think that's happening at all. Yeah, I think it'll be, I don't think we wrapped up and maybe I put, I'll put the Western Conference team in five games, six at the most.
- [52:08]
Raja Bell
So now here. My bad, my bad. Go ahead.
- [52:11]
Howard Beck
No, so just here's, here's the breakdown that I was, I was kind of like going through earlier before we got on, got on air here. The Knicks path, right? And you can only play the teams in front of you. So this is not knocking it like. And besides that, they haven't just beaten these teams, they've absolutely destroyed them. And I think the, the margin of victory, just the, the absolute devastation, like it all means something. But in fairness here, or just to put it in perspective, the Knicks did not face either of the top two teams in the Eastern Conference. That was Detroit and Boston. The Hawks who they beat in the first round were a 46 win team, which is fine. The Sixers were a 45 win team which. Okay, fine. The Hawks had never been to the playoffs before. Their best player in the series was C.J. mcCollum. Jalen Johnson. They're only all NBA player. Third team, all NBA was nowhere to be found. The Sixers were coming off a seven game series and Embiid was coming off of appendix surgery. The Cavs won 52 games. So their conference finals opponent, the Cavs won 52 games. That's more than respectable. But they made a massive mid season trade and a risky one at that. Swapping Garland for James Harden. And they're anchored by two stars who like have a long history of of playoff flameouts in Harden and Donovan Mitchell. The Thunder and the spurs two best records in the NBA. Thunder was 64 wins, spurs was 62. Shay Gil just Alexander is the two time MVP. Wemby's the defensive player of the year and was third in MVP. Like these two guys, either one that they have to face, the Knicks are just miles better than anybody they have faced in the postseason to date. They're also both first team all NBA. Of course Chet was third team all NBA. J Dub has been all NBA. The Knicks faced two all NBA guys in their playoff run so far. Donovan Mitchell who made second team, J. Jalen Johnson who I mentioned had made third team. Not the same as facing a Spurs team that has Wimby flanked by Stefan Castle who's going to make a lot of all NBA teams in the future. De' Aaron Fox who's been all NBA. Dylan Harper who will probably make a lot of all star and all NBA teams in the future. And then of course, we know who the Thunder are. The Knicks have Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns, and those guys are both great in their own right and have a lot of those accolades on their own resumes. OG Anunoby is awesome, one of the greatest defenders in the league. Then lastly here, defensive ranks. Cause the. The Knicks have just not faced this. The Thunder were number one in the regular season. The spurs were number three. The Hawks were 10th. The Cavs were 15th. The. The Sixers were 17th. The Knicks, by the way, were seven. So, you know, obviously a stout defense, defense themselves. Offensive ranks, spurs third, Thunder seven. Cavs were sixth. So that was the best one the Knicks have faced. Hawks 14th, 6 or 16th. And look, that part, some of that's just the way it goes, right? When you're playing lower seeds, they're not going to chart out as. As well. But I'm just saying the Knicks have not faced anything near what they're about to face yet. This test is a whole other thing and that's the way it's supposed to be. So I think we should focus more on who they're about to face and less on who they've beaten and how badly they've beaten them as we try to assess the series.
- [55:12]
Raja Bell
You know what stuck out to me about that? There was a lot. There was a lot of statistics in there, but the one that I think it's the defensive prowess of the two teams coming out of the west that I think is the. Was the biggest. Like, oh, shit. Like, you know, I should probably should have known that. But when you said it, it was like, wow, that's a real. That's a real difference there in the numbers. And a large part of what the Knicks have found is their offensive stride. Right. Like they've really hit. And when you're playing way more formidable defenses, like, you know, that's. That it's going to be a really, really difficult task to keep that up. So, yeah, I just wanted to follow up. Like, those are interesting, all interesting points. Like, but, but like, what stuck stood out to me about that was the defensive big difference.
- [56:00]
Howard Beck
It's like you think about Brunson, like, just absolutely carving up Harden and Mitchell and picking on those guys over and over again. I'm sorry, but the Thunder are going to throw. It's like Shay is a good defender himself, but it's going to be like Dort and Kason Wallace and just a wave of guys. And we'll see if AJ Mitchell and JW are healthy, but they've just got a lot. And there's Chet on the back line there, too. And the spurs, like Stefan Castle could get into you. Devin Vassell, by the way. We did not say Devin Vassell's name yet on this pod. We should have, because the block and then getting into it was chat, right?
- [56:33]
Raja Bell
Come on, Chet.
- [56:34]
Logan Murdock
Come on. Let him cook.
- [56:38]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I need you to blow the up, man. I need you to stand up, bro. Push that out of your. That's what he's doing.
- [56:45]
Howard Beck
But, like, all these guys can defend,
- [56:47]
Logan Murdock
so I'm just saying we gotta. Hold on. We gotta stay on chat really quickly, because I.
- [56:50]
Raja Bell
Sorry.
- [56:51]
Logan Murdock
I feel it. I feel. I feel annoyed because in the group chat, when Chet went on that. The. The little run to start game five, I was like, yo, Chet, legacy game. And he had, like, 14 and 7 or something like that, man. Man. And it's just. They. The series is begging for Chet to just have a game, bro. He's just. It's just. It's literally there, man. And there was a couple even in game six. I saw one of the. Hold on, R. I'm cooking now. Hold on, hold on. You got. You got your time. One second. I saw a play when he had a open layup, Saul Wimby, and just passed off in Game 6. And I'm like, dude, they're. They're. They're pushing you around right now, man.
- [57:29]
Raja Bell
You.
- [57:29]
Logan Murdock
You're 7 8. Wimby's 8 2, but you're 7 8, man. Come on. Okay, Rozzie, your turn. What are you. I'm just.
- [57:37]
Raja Bell
I'm gonna talk. Good, man. It's like, look, man, that was a. That was a baked in. I gotta shove you, bro. Like, you. You fucked up. You yelled. What?
- [57:46]
Logan Murdock
He's like, what?
- [57:46]
Raja Bell
He's like, yo.
- [57:47]
Logan Murdock
He's like, yo, come on, man.
- [57:49]
Raja Bell
With the kind of goof, the goofy rye grin. Like, oh, I'm. And I get it.
- [57:54]
Logan Murdock
I'm bigger than. I hate people that, like, I'm bigger. No, you're not.
- [57:59]
Raja Bell
There's a time and a place for that. There is. I didn't feel like. I don't feel like that moment was the time and the place for that rye grin. I'm bigger than this. You've never been here before response. Now. Not everyone is wired like me.
- [58:17]
Logan Murdock
They're pushing your teammates to the floor, bro.
- [58:20]
Raja Bell
What are you doing, man? We need you to bow up chat. We need you to bow up in that moment. Like, that is a tech. You have to take Back up out of my face, bro. We're not about to do this. Like that is, that is a. I know it sounds crazy, right? Like, and if you've never been in that moment as a, as a, as a competitor, you, you have no idea what I'm talking about. And there are going to be some people who have been in that moment that were Chet. And you won't feel what I'm talking about. But there are moments where you can look around. If you pause time, right, Just said up time out in a movie, right? And everybody just stay where they're at. And you can read everybody's mind. Just go through your teammates mind one through 12 and your coaches. And if you could do that, every one of their mind reads would be, bro, you gotta do something. Chat. You gotta him up. Chet, we need you right now. Chet, where you at, Chet? How you gonna handle yourself? And you just like, I promise you that's where they were all at. And you just missed an opportunity because something like that could spark. It could spark and ignite something within the like belly of your team. And I think he missed an opportunity to do that though. I was disappointed in that.
- [59:30]
Logan Murdock
Raja. I'm thinking about Scottie Pippen in the 1990 playoffs against the Pistons when they beat the shit out of him. And then the next year in 1991, he was just a. He was. They say it in the last dance. He just was like that. I'm not taking this anymore, right? I'm not going to do this. And it changed the ceiling for the Chicago Bulls. It may, it just, it made them a different team. Chet is at current state right now. Chet is a really good basketball player. But if he gets some like to him, right, like he gives you the 21 and he gives you just like a bow, like that's going to show like Jared McCain is out here getting pushed to the ground by these people and still getting up like was good. You need that from your footer, bro. You need that from your seven footer, dog. You need that. And that's going to galvanize the team. And if you just get up off the mat and say, I'm not taking this shit anymore. And then the basketball stuff will take care of the basketball stuff. But that's the biggest overall thing that I see from OKC right now is, bro, they just getting punked and just getting soft whenever they play against San Antonio. It's annoying. It is annoying. It's very annoying.
- [60:33]
Raja Bell
Look, you can have. We, we give a lot of credit, rightfully so, to Sh. To sh. Shea, for his ability to kind of stay even keeled, you know, not react in a way when people are trying to elicit a reaction from you.
- [60:53]
Logan Murdock
Yeah.
- [60:53]
Raja Bell
And how that affects the calmness and the steadiness of his team. So it's not his job necessarily on that team to be the overt. I'm with the shits fighter.
- [61:07]
Joe Me
Right.
- [61:11]
Raja Bell
But you. You when pushed, right? Like, maybe it's not Shay's, but Shay's job, even when pushed because he's too valuable. But, But Chad, this is. This is a crossroads for us, my boy. Like we are. This is. This is game six, man. And you are not an indispensable piece of this right now. You have not conducted yourself as such.
- [61:35]
Logan Murdock
No.
- [61:35]
Raja Bell
What are you going to do when that man beats your shit up and walks down in your face yelling what he yelled? That is immediate. What's up?
- [61:47]
Logan Murdock
Yeah, man, you gotta.
- [61:48]
Raja Bell
I don't know how else to point that.
- [61:49]
Logan Murdock
Hey, Chat, man, you gotta earn them Louis Vuitton sneakers. You gotta earn that durag that you wearing, dog. You gotta earn them collard greens and. And lima beans and all that stuff, bro. If you're gonna do that, you gotta pack a up, dog. You gotta earn. You feel me? Them red. Roger, you got to earn them red beans and rice. If you're gonna do all that, you gotta earn it. You gotta get there. Right. I'm just saying. And to your point, really quickly, because I want to get to Howard. Oh, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
- [62:13]
Raja Bell
Yeah, no, no, no, it's a good point, though. Howard was making a point that I thought was a really good one before we got sidetracked about, you know, Jalen. Correct me if I'm wrong, Howard, you were talking about the defenders that they could throw at Jalen, like, and you
- [62:26]
Howard Beck
were really kind of veered off into red beans and rice.
- [62:28]
Raja Bell
Yeah, yeah, the defender. San Antonio has some real nasty looking dudes out there in a. Complimentary.
- [62:41]
Logan Murdock
With all due respect. Yeah, yeah.
- [62:43]
Raja Bell
Like, they have some dudes that they look like they are with all of it. And as crazy as that, like, Carter Bryant play was like, last night, he came into the game with one thing on his mind, and especially the Knicks. You're talking about how hard it is for Brunson. Like, they got people like that and they will cycle through them to the point I made earlier in the pot. They're going to find the one that gives him the most trouble, and they have the. The wemby of it behind as well, which would make, you know, like, really really be difficult. The Knicks are going to have to unlock some things in that way. But I just, I don't know, man. People don't always agree with me. Like, I've had, I coach youth basketball for a long time. I coach high school basketball. You know, given apples to apples that we're comparing skill sets and positionally and, you know, just the aesthetics of one's game. Always give me the player that is willing to fight for it, metaphorically or literally, bro. Give me the one that is willing to be like, yo, oh, that's how we're handling this. Okay? Because I just feel like over the course of time, like a hundred samples, that player is going to win and go get it more often than the one that doesn't seem to care about it. And so I will forever feel that way. You, there are times where you got to meet that moment, my boy. You have to step up and, and do what it takes. Maybe it's, maybe it's not even a shelf. Maybe it's a full layout, every piece.
- [64:25]
Logan Murdock
At least you got to go get a ball. At least like, you got me up. And that's not going well in that scenario.
- [64:30]
Raja Bell
Yes, but, but it might not always manifest itself in a physical confrontation. It might be in like, yo, this dive to get this ball is going to hurt so bad that I don't want to do it. But one of you will and one of you won't. Give me the one that will.
- [64:47]
Howard Beck
And the Knicks, by the way, are that kind of team. Like, they are built that way. I just think that the level of talent and depth that the spurs and Thunder have exceeds what the Knicks have. But like the, the Knicks are exactly the kind of team and this is how they've gotten here, right, Raja? Because they are way tougher also way smarter, way more tied together, way better chemistry than any of the teams they just smoked, right? The Sixers and Cavs are kind of fucked up teams, let's be honest. You know, the Hawks just weren't ready. They were young. The other two teams like had veteran talent and everything, but they're just that these were not teams that were tied together and didn't have that, that requisite toughness and want all throughout. And they just like, by the way, not for nothing, Jalen Brunson really thrives in the mid range. Obviously he can knock down the three too, but like, he's not the fastest guy. He's super strong, but like he's going to get to his spots. But man, we've just seen this over and over again. If you're at the elbow and Wemby's standing in the paint, good luck getting that shot over him or having to, like, now, you know, re angle that thing with the highest arc pot. So, like, I'm gonna be very, like, especially if it's Wemby, even if it's Chad, but more, more so Wemby. Wemby versus Brunson. That's not a matchup, but it's gonna be a thing. And I can't wait to see how that goes if that's the. If that's the outcome.
- [66:02]
Raja Bell
Really, really good point, though, because he scores and Shea scores similarly.
- [66:07]
Logan Murdock
Yeah.
- [66:07]
Raja Bell
You know, neither one of them is a pure. Like, I want to shoot the three. They want to work in these, you know, 18 foot ranges and. And he. Wemby is an antidote for that. It's. It's tough. Tough sledding in there.
- [66:17]
Howard Beck
I think this is. I think this is Shay's. I'm. I'm looking it up because Kirika had this stat last night. I think this is Shay's least efficient playoff series of his career.
- [66:27]
Logan Murdock
That's right.
- [66:28]
Howard Beck
Yeah. So actually, I was going to say buddy Michael Pena had our. Michael. Buddy Michael Pina had this heading into. Heading into tonight, so heading into game six. And it's probably still the case. His effective field goal percentage in the series was the lowest of his career by a wide margin. So, yeah, if I had to think,
- [66:46]
Logan Murdock
it would have been like 2019. But he was just. He was a totally different player when they played against the Warriors. When he was with the Clippers, I think he played a good. I actually had a decent series that year. Okay, before we get to ruin of the week, Howard, can you just give the real one statement? Just like our statement for us on lottery reform. Just give the real one statement. We all agree with what you got to say and just. And we'll go to real one of the week. So what do you think about lottery reform?
- [67:13]
Howard Beck
The shortest version of it I. I can give is. I think that the league is doing what they feel they have to do because of just how absolutely abhorrent and off the charts and out of control it was this year. The tanking. They're doing what they feel they have to do. I. I'm worried. I. I respect the. The model they came up with, which. The short version is this. If you're one of the bottom three teams, rather than in the past when you had the best odds, you're in what's now called a relegation zone. And you will have fewer lottery balls as the bottom one, two or three than teams that are behind you and in that or that are ahead of you in the standings. There will not be, there will be not only not incentive to be one of the worst three teams, there will be disincentive. You would rather be fourth than 1, 2, 3 based on the odds. Now that seems healthy. There are other versions or other tweaks and wrinkles to this, but the odds are going to be flatter. There's going to be more teams involved now. It's going to be 16 teams instead of 18. It's going to include like the play in losers and I will that solve tanking. I think it'll go a long way toward it. I do think that this is a pretty good overall solution to take away any incentive to lose on purpose and to pull all your starters and all your stars and to make up fake injuries and have Yusuf Nurkic go get freaking deviated septum surgery. I, I do think it will, it will, it will go a long way toward addressing those things. I think the downside is now the teams that need the most help ain't getting it. Like I feel really bad right now. I'll just like there's others. But I'm just going to single out the Sacramento Kings who have been through it and a lot of it's self inflicted because the owner. But they're in a really bad place right now and they've got a bunch of, you know, veterans on big contracts and in the past you would just offload those guys. It's already hard to do that. So then it's like, well, we're stuck with them until they expire but at least we can get some high picks and maybe if we nail a pick or two. Well now you can't do that either because you may be the third or fourth or fifth worst team and fall all the way back into the latter half of the lottery and maybe you're not getting the guy you really need. And on top of that, one of the other rules is you can't, you can't be the Spurs. The spurs got three top five picks in a three year span. You will no longer be able to get multiple top five picks as one of the other provisions of this. So you can't build the way the spurs just built. So I do, I feel bad for the Kings. I feel bad for some other teams that are like whether it's by intent or not, it's just going to be a lot harder to turn your franchise around by drafting talent. You're going to have to find other ways. And if people want to say, look, it'll put more of a premium on scouting and development. Cool. That's great. We know there's a lot of stars to be found. The 8th pick, the 15th pick, the 22nd pick, second round. We've had all stars and all NBA guys and MVPs come from everywhere now, but those are really low percentage plays, and they're hard to do. And it's a lot of luck, too. So I. I do worry about the downside potentially here. But that's. That's lottery reform in a nutshell, I believe.
- [70:25]
Logan Murdock
Couldn't have said it better myself. Right, Ranja.
- [70:29]
Raja Bell
Couldn't have said it at all myself.
- [70:30]
Howard Beck
There's a lovely chart I can send you guys that shows it all graphically.
- [70:34]
Logan Murdock
I'm sure I'll be left on red. I don't think. I don't think Roger will interact with that one in the chat. I think. Let's get to roll a little, Man. I'm about to. We. About to go somewhere. I'm not trying to get. No more homework, Howard, so you can take that. I'm gonna. Let's go to RO of the week. I'm going to give mine first. I'll trickle it back down. Action Bronson, who had a really, really good record called the Frog. It's really good, and I really love it. I think it was great. He has a really good song with Paul Wall and Howard's favorite rapper, Lil Yachty, and you guys go check it out. I really had a good, good listening experience walking around the neighborhood. It's actually called Planet Frog, not the Frog. But, yeah, I really love that album, and it's been the soundtrack of my last two weeks. So. Action Bronson. Real one of the week.
- [71:35]
Raja Bell
Action.
- [71:35]
Logan Murdock
Okay, Raja, who's your ruin of the week?
- [71:40]
Raja Bell
I don't know. I'll. I'll.
- [71:42]
Howard Beck
Yeah, let me.
- [71:43]
Raja Bell
I'll pop my real quick. I'm gonna give it to my young. My middle boy, Ty Bell.
- [71:46]
Logan Murdock
All right. I thought you were gonna give it to yourself.
- [71:51]
Howard Beck
He's the real one of every week, really.
- [71:53]
Logan Murdock
He ain't here without me.
- [71:56]
Raja Bell
Thank you. Did I tell you how to pod? Yeah, because I gave a shout out to under armour for being PNGs about, like, the situation. So as it was, you know, Ty decided he wanted to go to Nike, right? Like, they have Ty ranked as number 24, I think, on ESPN and, like, number 22 in the class of 20, 20, 28 on some other site. Not that rankings mean anything to me, but like it does to these kids, Ty does not see himself in that light. Ty believes unequivocally that he is a top 10 kid in the class. So when asked by Nike if he wanted to play in the class of 2028 or the class of 2027 in their league, Ty said he don't play 16U. Which I was like, oh, shit. Because everybody's like, yo, Nike's. Yeah. So Ty's like, no, I'm playing 2027. And they went to a team that has a lot of talent but didn't have a PG because they've also taken him because he scored so much in high school and moved him from PG to the shooting guard. They've just decided that he's a shooting guard. So this team needed a true point to bring their real talent together. And he went and played for Kenny Smith's team, Jet Academy EYBL 17 use. While a lot of those other top 25 kids are playing 16U. And he led him to a 3 in one weekend. They were coming off a 0 and 4 weekend, I think, or 1 and 3. He led him to a 3 in one Weekend with 17 and a half, 5 and a half rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 fucking steals. And betting on himself like, yo, this is what I'm here to do. And as his dad, I respect that. So he's real. One of the week.
- [73:26]
Logan Murdock
Of the week, baby. Let's go. Let's go.
- [73:29]
Howard Beck
You know, Raja, if. If you want us to go, like, full, like, grievance culture on, like, the rankings and stuff, and we'll, like, start. Be like. Like, we could start, like, we could, like, put up some Instagram reels, like some tweets, and stuff, whatever. Like, he's not. He's been robbed like that. These guys are just haters. He's obviously a top five talent. Like, let's go, man.
- [73:48]
Raja Bell
We don't get in. We don't get into all of that, dog. We don't get into all of that complaining and shit, bro, we just show up and. And. And knock you off the kill list. That's what we do. That's what he.
- [73:57]
Logan Murdock
That's what he does.
- [73:57]
Raja Bell
Like, that's the all. That's. That's the only way you could do it. You can't get caught up in the whole
- [74:04]
Logan Murdock
bringing that act to temple, ain't he. He gonna be right there.
- [74:06]
Raja Bell
Right there, front row seats.
- [74:09]
Howard Beck
I respect it, Raj. I expect nothing. I expect nothing less from a member of. Of the Bell family. So, like, I, I, I love the fact that you guys do not.
- [74:16]
Logan Murdock
Yo, wait, there was a time when, when, when Steph came on the pod, and I believe Ty was there, and I just saw a look in Ty's eyes like, yeah, motherfucker, I'm coming for you. Yeah, because he, he sat right by. He sat right by you. It was like, yeah, mother. Yeah, okay. I respect you.
- [74:36]
Raja Bell
That's his, that's his guy, bro. Steph was really good with him, dog.
- [74:40]
Howard Beck
Real talk.
- [74:40]
Raja Bell
Steph was really good. I can't.
- [74:42]
Logan Murdock
Yeah, don't mean you don't want to cross them up when you get to the show. But anyways, Howard Beck, who's your real One of the week?
- [74:49]
Howard Beck
I swear, I'm, I'm not trying to bring us down again, and I'm not going.
- [74:52]
Logan Murdock
That's why you're last. That's why you're last.
- [74:55]
Howard Beck
I'm gonna make this uplifting. I'll make this uplifting. Now, my real One of the week is a combination of Terry Ann Glenn, who I used to work with at the New York Times, and also the entire New York Times sports section, sports department that I worked with. We had a memorial this earlier this week for Fern Turkowitz. And she should be my real one of the Week, but it's, it's a combo thing again. Fern basically ran the sports department of the New York Times for decades. She was not the sports editor. She worked for all the sports editors, including the three that I worked for. But she ran the joint. Every credential, every crisis, everything, all of our expenses. Fern had that place on lock. She also was just an absolute saint, dealing with all of us psycho reporters and our crazy editors and just the number of ways in which. At this memorial the other day, I heard that she helped people in ways that I had no idea. The ways that she covered for people, the way that she made sure that no matter what happened, you're on the road. And like, you, you have. You lost all your clothes, your suitcase got lost, whatever the hell it was. And it was like, no, don't go to Target. Go to Neiman Marcus. We'll take care of it. Like, she was incredible. And I had the honor, pleasure of getting to work with Fern for the nine years that I was at the Times. But the reason I bring this up now, and this is the uplifting part, I've been gone from the New York Times for 13 years, fellas. Teriann Glenn, who took over for Fern, like Fern, made sure that no matter what happens, there's A retirement, there's, you know, a death among either a former staffer or their family, whatever, we are all still involved. There's a, There's a network. The room was packed in the, in the Times conference room the other day for this memorial. Then we all went out to the bar afterward. I've worked at a lot of places in my career. I've never been anywhere that is as, as connected as the Times sports department. And having that and the way that Terianne has, has included us all made sure that we are all still feeling connected to that. So when something like this occurs, we're all there is incredible. It's really, really cool. And it's very rare in this world that you, that you have this. You know, we're a lot of us fortunate enough to have th. Those ties in our personal lives, but in your professional life, especially in the era of Zoom, which we're on now, and remote working and everything else, it. You sometimes don't get that. And it means a hell of a lot to me. And I told Terry Ann this and a lot of my colleagues from the other night this. It's just really great. It means a lot to me that I still feel like I'm part of that Greater Times family even though I've been gone for like 13 years. So it was just really cool and it was a really great event and shout out and rest in peace to Fern.
- [77:29]
Logan Murdock
Hell yeah. That's what's up. Ruin. Okay, we will, as a group, we will see you guys at the end of Game 3 of the NBA Finals. We will be doing a live pod. Then next week we have, we have a special edition pod with myself, Joel Anderson and Brian Curtis. So yeah, man, we'll see you guys. You guys have a great week. We'll talk to you guys really soon. All the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older in present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET call. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdg.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.