← The Ringer NBA Show
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- [00:00]
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- [01:25]
Logan Murdoch
What's poppin? Real ones. Friday vibes. Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck there. Isaiah on the boards. Victoria on the video. No Raja today. How do you feel about that? I mean, he had such the. The crazy performance last episode, Howard. And was it fine, worthy? You think that, like, this is just like a. You know what, How. How are we supposed to think about this absence from Raja?
- [01:50]
Howard Beck
Should we.
- [01:51]
Logan Murdoch
Should we look into it? How do we.
- [01:52]
Howard Beck
I mean, it's late March. Everyone's load managing. Rajah's a vet. He's no different. You know, I think he earned it. He brought. He brought it on Tuesday. He earned. He earned it. He earned the three day week.
- [02:02]
Logan Murdoch
He brought it.
- [02:02]
Howard Beck
It's fine.
- [02:03]
Logan Murdoch
It was. The performance from Raj on Tuesday was like a. Was like a soft march. 40 right throughout. 8 assists. Got 5 boards, but got like those 5 turnovers that you're like, damn, like, we still won by 20. Duh. But like, he's gonna look at those five turnovers like, damn it.
- [02:23]
Howard Beck
No, he won't. He won't care. He'll be like, it's fine. It's fine. I put up the points. I did what I needed to do.
- [02:32]
Logan Murdoch
Did we win the damn game? Did we win the damn game? Okay, shut up. Okay. All right. You know who won at life. The gross specs Wick and his father shout out to the gross specs. They might be ruin of the week potential right now because they just sold the Boston Celtics for a reported 6:1 $6.1 billion. But I feel like I've seen some people say that the deal by the time it's over we could reach 7.3. Others have said it reached $6.7 billion. And he sells sold the team to Bill Chisholm. There's not a lot like known about him other than he's from Massachusetts and he grew up a big Celtics fan. I'm sure we'll get the big profile in the coming months about him. Let's get into this though. This sale, there was a really if you guys want like the expert analysis of this, there's a really good conversation on Bill's podcast what Chris manics about just the ins and outs, but we're going to do the best that we can here. Howard did a really good piece in the Ringer on this sale and just what it means for new ownership and basically giving advice to the new owner in a roundabout way and telling him the pros and cons of what new ownership in the NBA is like. First off, let's go to your article first, which is entitled Don't Light the Cigar on the Celtics Sale Just Yet. We could get into that article, but I guess to start off this segment, what is the best case scenario and the worst case scenario you think for this new ownership group owning the Boston Celtics? Earmuffs Isaiah, it's going to be okay, but just, you know, we're just doing a thought exercise here.
- [04:15]
Howard Beck
First of all, just think about what's happening right now with this sale at all. I have not looked this up, but I'm pretty confident in saying I don't think there's been the sale of a defending champion in the 28 years that I've been covering this league. Like, teams don't get sold that often in the first place. But like great teams, like teams that are at their peak, I don't think get sold that often. And it has nothing to do with winning and losing. Right? Like franchises get, you know, the ownership turns over when, when owners are ready to move on for whatever reason. But this is a really unique situation. The Celtics are defending champions. They're selling right now. They are not only defending champions, they have the core of a team that should be contending for several years to come. Except that the current CBA makes it really, really, really, really hard to keep together a team With a ton of great talent because talent costs money. And now you start triggering aprons and all this stuff, you start having to pay massive luxury taxes. You start losing the ability to do sign in trades and acquire guys and all kinds of stuff. So even if the gross specs had retained their ownership of the Celtics moving forward, they were going to have a lot of strains based on the fact that they, you know, to their credit, put together a really talented Brad Stevens and his front office put together a really talented roster. It's hard to keep that together no matter who you are. All right, so now let's move to the, the Bill Chisum piece of this new owner comes in, gets to inherit the defending champions and all their amazing talent. Tatum and Brown and Derek White, Drew Holiday, all these guys. Now Bill Chisholm and his group have to figure out how much can we pay these guys and for how long and how much will, will it hamper us in the future if we're now in the repeater tax and if we're now over the second apron and we're now we're losing future draft picks and we're now unable to make trades. And like, it's really hard. And the really hard part of this was going to apply no matter who owned them. But I do think to the extent that this is a new owner coming in with zero track record in the league, zero track record in the public spotlight, really like nobody knew this guy's name until 24 hours ago. And now it's congrats. Assuming he gets the approval from the board of governors, which may be months away. Congrats. You now own the defending champs. You now own one of the crown jewels of the NBA. You now own one of the most historic franchises in professional sports. Good luck with this payroll that according to Bobby Marks from ESPN is going to cost 450 to maybe 500 million next season based on payroll and luxury taxes. And we'll have all these other things triggered too. So that part of it, Logan, is just really difficult no matter who owns it. But especially with a new owner and all the expectations of hey guy, we're on the verge of a potential dynasty here, or certainly we'd like to think so keep cutting the checks.
- [07:06]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, this is the modern NBA, right? And the other part, the one part that I do want to note from this sale and the reason why the defending champions are up for sale is because Whit Gross, Beck's father Irv, is getting a little long in the tooth. 90 years old, trying to get his affairs in order and wants his will, or whatever you want to call it, to be liquidated and have his cash flow popping. And now. So it was, it was timing on that. It was a great set of circumstances that made this actually happen. And that tends to. That that can occasionally happen at points in times. But that's the reason why a defending champion seemingly at the peak of their value at this point. I mean, all these values go higher and higher every year. But that's the big reason, you know, why this is happening. So a point of. And I want to get your opinion on this. We talked about Mark Cuban. We've talked about, about Mark Cuban a lot post Mav sale and seems like Wick has gotten a similar deal, although he has, he has his in writing that he will be a team governor for the next three years and still have some say in, you know, basketball decision making. That sounds good right now when you sign the paperwork. But do you believe that this is going to be a new fruitful situation for WIC or is this going to be Mark Cuban 2, 3, 4.0 at this point? What do, what do you think on that?
- [08:49]
Howard Beck
So the distinction here is that Cuban sold, you know, controlling interest and told everybody I'm still going to run basketball operations. But as far as I can tell, and as far as anybody in the league knows that I've spoken to, there was never anything in writing that made this an official part of the transaction. In this case, the statement that was, I think it was kind of a joint statement right. By, by Bill Chisholm and Whit Grossbeck yesterday. It's clear from both parties that this is their intent. So they're already one step ahead of the game compared to where the Mark Cuban situation was with the Adelen family. So let's take it, let's, let's take it as a given. Logan, for discussion purposes, that this is ironclad. It's in the deal. Grossbeck will own less than 50%, but he'll still be the governor and CEO. He'll be running the show for the next three seasons through 27, 28, and then he'll sell the balance and that's when Chisholm will take over. Let's assume that that is official ironclad in the contract. It's going to happen this way. It's still awkward as hell. You just, you just, you just set the record. Bill Chisholm and his group are setting the record for the highest price ever for any franchise in any professional sport in North America. As you noted, 6.1 billion. But it's really. And I, I got this myself yesterday, too. That's been reported a couple places, but I confirm this with a couple different sources. In the NBA, it's probably closer to 7.3 billion because what's going to happen is the first payment or the first, you know, conveyance here of the 51% is at the 6.1 billion valuation. But there's an expectation that the value of the team will continue to increase over the next few years, and therefore the, the, the balance payment at that time will have increased as well. And so the expectation is this is going to actually reach, yeah, over 7 billion. Like 7.3 billion. If you have paid that amount, are you really going to seed all control for three seasons? Are you really going to be patient with that?
- [10:51]
Logan Murdoch
No.
- [10:52]
Howard Beck
It's sticky. It's, it's, it's awkward. Like, I'm not saying that this won't work, but I do think it's inherently fraught. I also think. Let's go half glass full for a minute here. The optimist view would be Chisholm realizes on day one. And this would be. This would be really refreshing, by the way, because no owners ever realize this on day one. If you realize on day one that you don't actually know how the NBA works and you need to come in with some humility about it and defer to the people who know it best, in this case, not only Whit Grossbeck, but Brad Stevens in his front office, Mike Zarin, like, defer to the people who are the real experts. There are too many owners who come in who think they know it all, who are captains of industry in other industries, in private equity or real estate or banking. And they come in and they think, I'll just run this the way I run my other businesses. Nope, wrong answer. NBA's different.
- [11:41]
Logan Murdoch
That's the re. That's the reason why you're on Blue sky, huh?
- [11:46]
Howard Beck
To avoid the billionaires. They don't, they don't want me around. But, but there's, there's a humility that's necessary. And if, and if Bill Chisholm is coming into this truly with not just the, the, the deal in place where I'm not going to be governor, but also the recognition that there's a reason that actually makes sense. Not just because Grossbeck's not ready to, to give up control and this is the arrangement that they, that they, that they made, but if it's also because Chisholm realizes on day one, I might actually have a learning curve here. Like there's a, there's a, there's a great outcome possible here where he just immerses himself, stays in the background, listens more than speaks and learns from, from Grossbeck, learns from Brad Stevens, learns from Mike Zarin. And in three years he's more ready to take the training wheels off as owner and actually be the day to day decision maker. Most owners, none of them actually do it that way. They come in and yeah, I mean some may lay back a little bit but usually they come in guns blazing. We saw, you know, Matt Ishbia, we saw, we've now seen with Patrick Dumont and the Adelsons in Dallas. We've seen various versions of this over time. Hell, we saw it with Mark Cuban when he first bought the Mavericks 25 years ago. There's not a lot of humility baked in usually. So if this arrangement where he doesn't is not the governor on day one, if that allows him to immerse himself and learn the ropes and understand the NBA first, then there's a really great outcome here potentially for the Celtics going forward.
- [13:12]
Logan Murdoch
I think, I think a couple things, right? One of the things that's easy is he has like a ready made contender already and he has the people in place to keep it going, right? Like you have Brad Stevens as the head in your front office. You have Joe Missoula who has been a great coach. You already, you have the tandem of Tatum and Brown and you already have that baked in. I think the hardest part really is just going to be how you build a, a team around Tatum and Brown. Like that's really just going to be based on what we just talked about with the luxury tax. It's a pretty big easy job if you don't have your ego involved, right. And I mean I think the best case scenario, I mean I think honestly this is the best case scenario. If you're going to s. Spend this much money on a team, you have it ready made. I think the other team that came to mind that did this right in the ownership that came to Ryan was the, the Golden State warriors. When Joe Lake of and Peter Gruber bought the team team. And it was a little different because the team wasn't a, wasn't a champion and coming off of that. But what they did was they put basketball people in position to make basketball moves, right. Like you had, they got Jerry west as an advisor. They did take a chance on Bob Myers as an assistant gm but they up until around now like they've been listening to the Basketball people. And I think if, if Chisholm just continues to listen to the basketball people, he'll be fine to sit front row, let you know, let the, let the machine keep on going. Like there's nothing really that you have to change right here. Unless you have to. Unless you have an ego in it, you know. But right now, y'all could win another title and continue to win another title, y'all might go make a 3p. We'll see what happens. But this is, this seems like an easy. This seems like easier than, than most potential owners going into a situation like this.
- [15:08]
Howard Beck
I think you're right, Logan. On some level, right? Like you inherit a winner, you don't have the pressure. Like Ishba, the second he takes over the Suns is like, I've got Booker, but you know, we need to, we need to do something else. Chris Paul's getting old. I need to make a splash. Let's trade everything. We've got to get Kevin Durant, you know, before the inks even dry on the contract to buy the team, right? So desperation with a team that's not a contender can lead to some really bad outcomes, which is what we've seen in Phoenix, right? Just desperation plays overeager, over aggressive. And Chisholm won't have that in Boston because as you note, he gets to take over a winner. But there's a different pressure that comes with that because now it's, don't fuck it up, you know, like, do what you got to do to keep this team together. And oh, by the way, if the system that the NBA has created is making it impossible to keep Brown and Tatum, Andrew and White and Porzingis and Peyton Pritchard or whoever, then, you know, find a way to empower your front office to replace those guys at a, at a, you know, similar talent, but cheaper and younger, whatever it may be, just don't screw it up. But as I said before, like part of this, like the, the baked in challenge for the Celtics, no matter who owns it, is the system is what it is now it's really hard to keep a team together. And if a team is that talented, then it's going to be that expensive and it's that expensive. Now you're crossing second apron and you're, you know, getting into all this other, these other difficulties. So on the one hand it's an easy, an easy one to be a new owner of the Celtics. On the other hand, like, there is no greater pressure unless you're the new owner of like, if the Lakers were Sold tomorrow. Same kind of thing. It's like, even though the Lakers aren't, you know, defending champs right now, and we can argue about whether or not they're contenders right now, those are the two franchises where the fan base expects nothing but championships and nothing, Nothing below that is even satisfactory.
- [17:12]
Logan Murdoch
You brought up the Lakers. I'm sure they're really, really excited with this news right now, including every other team that, like, it's crazy to think, what was it, not even, what, a little over 10 years ago that Ballmer bought into the NBA for 2 billion. And now we're. We were like, damn, that's a lot of money.
- [17:31]
Howard Beck
And people thought it was an overpay.
- [17:33]
Logan Murdoch
Logan, people thought that was an overpay. Now, like, oh, it was a little bit of a bargain, right? Like, even brought about The warriors in 2010. They bought that for like 4,450 million. And, you know, and they. That was a lot of money, right?
- [17:47]
Howard Beck
We missed our window, man. We missed our window to buy a team when it was only in the hundreds of millions. We could have pulled it off. But now that it's over, you know, 2, 3, 5, 6 billion, I think. I think we're shut out.
- [17:55]
Logan Murdoch
Logan, I didn't have a lot of money there. You did. You do. I could have got a little percentage, you know what I'm saying? You know me, you and Roger would have got it. He would have had control and stake. Now. Now look at us. What does this mean for expansion? Howard Beck, the league is thrilled.
- [18:12]
Howard Beck
So let's just. Let's be really clear. The fact that the Celtics are going for somewhere between 6.1 and 7.3 billion and without control of their arena, by the way, there's no.
- [18:22]
Logan Murdoch
Or, Like.
- [18:23]
Howard Beck
Or.
- [18:23]
Logan Murdoch
Or. There's no attachment like we were talking about. Ishbia. Like, there was a. There's an arena. There is a practice facility that they were just building and also a W team. There's none of that in Boston. Yeah, now they could. Now they could try to go get an arena. Obviously, the arena in Boston is owned by the Bruins, the owners of the Boston Bruins. So the Celtics, in theory, like, you spend six, six Billy, seven Billy on a team, you might want to get your own arena at some point.
- [18:52]
Howard Beck
Yeah, that might be something, but, like.
- [18:53]
Logan Murdoch
That might be the next thing.
- [18:54]
Howard Beck
Lakers, same situation. Right. Don't own their arena. They're. They're renters. But. But if. If you're Jeannie Buss and her and her siblings, and you're looking at the Celtics, the other marquee Franchise of the league selling for 6 billion, 7 billion, whatever it ultimately ends up being. You're thinking, well, and then they didn't have the arena. The Lakers don't either. But you can now bank on the idea that our franchise is worth at least that much as well.
- [19:20]
Logan Murdoch
I would say like 10, right?
- [19:23]
Howard Beck
We're, we're. Dude, we're going to be there like 10, 10 billion on the horizon that's in play.
- [19:28]
Logan Murdoch
That might be the next sale, right? Like that might, whenever. I don't know.
- [19:32]
Howard Beck
It'll be one of the bigger markets. The one thing that was interesting that somebody pointed out to me yesterday was if you look at all the recent sales, the really high prices are still in the bigger markets. The smaller market teams, the valuations are not, are not in the 5, 6, 7 billion range. They're more like the 1 1/2, 2 billion range. So there is a little bit of a difference there. But if they are going to just keep going up here, not so far in the distant future, someone's going for 10 billion. And the Lakers and Knicks are the two that you look at immediately if those two franchises, either of them ever sells, given the size of their markets and the, the historic nature of those teams. And in the Garden's case, of course, they do own their arena as well as the, the local sports network, the MSG network. So that one's going to go for even higher anyway. But the league is thrilled because don't the Lakers do.
- [20:21]
Logan Murdoch
I don't know what they're. Don't they own their rights, their tv? They have like a great. Maybe they just have great. They don't own the, they don't own the network, though.
- [20:29]
Howard Beck
Yeah, they don't own the network. The, the Garden actually owns their network. But the league is thrilled because for expansion purposes and everybody should go back and look, last month we had expansion week at the Ringer and we've got all kinds of stories about the possibilities of expansion. I don't think that that's imminent, Logan, but one of the things that was slowing up any expansion discussions at the league level and any formal. Because they haven't even formally started expansion, like expansion is not, is literally not in progress, despite how often we've all talked about it. But they needed to have the Celtics sell first because they were really hoping to get something in this range 6 billion plus that now sets the bar. So if the league is expanding in the next three, four, five years, you know, the asking price now it's. It's minimum 6 billion for fake dead so that's. That's the. That's the price. Now we know what the asking price is. Minimum 6 billion for those two new franchises. So the league is thrilled at this outcome and for expansion purposes, yes. This. This now makes it that much more attractive for the league on a financial level.
- [21:34]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, it's. It's fascinating. There's a lot of questions that I can ask, but we just don't have them yet. Right. Like, how is this guy just going to be, like, how the previous ownership group goes and say it, we're just going to pay all the luxury taxes we want to win. Like, we want to win in this window now, or is it going to be a strip down? Like, I don't. We don't have question. Answers to those questions, like, of how this. We don't even know this guy.
- [21:57]
Howard Beck
No, and it's really interesting, too, Logan, because you think about it. You mentioned the warriors, which I think was a really smart point about how lacob and Goober approached this, that they did approach. I don't know if the humility is still there for championships later.
- [22:11]
Logan Murdoch
I don't. I mean, I'm gonna say this. I don't think it was ever there necessarily, but I do think that back then, there was an at least an acknowledgment of like, we don't know what we're doing necessary. We're new. We need to figure this out.
- [22:23]
Howard Beck
But, yeah, I mean, Lake of is. Is. Is the guy who coined the light years ahead phrase that they have been paying for and mocked for ever since. But shit, man, they won four championships. You can say whatever the hell you want at a certain point. He don't think. I think he'd only won one championship at the time he said that. But anyway, yeah, you. You should have some humility about the league when you first come in, but it doesn't always work that way. And I think what's interesting is, like, I can make the case, Logan, that the best thing an owner can do is listen to your basketball experts, defer to them, cut the checks, and get out of the way. On the other hand, the counterpoint to that would be Patrick Dumont, the Dallas Mavericks CEO or. Or governor, because don't just get out of the way if your GM comes to you and says, hey, I think I want to trade one of the three best players on the planet for a guy who's six years older, injured all the time, and say less. Yeah, cool. Yeah. So on the one hand, I would argue that owners should not meddle in basketball affairs that they don't know very little about. They should not trample their front office. They should defer to their experts. But if your expert comes to you and wants to do something absolutely batshit crazy, that's when you probably, as the owner should say, eh, no, I'm in charge here. Let's not go there.
- [23:35]
Logan Murdoch
But, Howard, I got some counterpoints that I would know. Like, I do believe that everything that Chisub has said, he's doing this because he loves his team. Right? Like, he definitely, like every.
- [23:44]
Howard Beck
Everybody does.
- [23:44]
Logan Murdoch
They all say no, no, no, no. But the Adelen family at Patrick Dumont literally did it from the very beginning to be a land buy. Like, this was not about.
- [23:52]
Howard Beck
Yes.
- [23:53]
Logan Murdoch
This was not about, like, building a team or anything. No. It was like trying to build a casino in Dallas and with no NBA history.
- [24:00]
Howard Beck
Right. Like, right. Chisholm. Chisholm. At least the way he's portrayed himself is, I grew up, you know, outside of Boston.
- [24:06]
Logan Murdoch
I'm.
- [24:07]
Howard Beck
I'm a Celtics die hard from childhood, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, you're right. You're very right to make that.
- [24:11]
Logan Murdoch
Listen to Johnny most all the. All the Celtics propaganda, all of that. But, like, you didn't have that in necessarily in Dallas, right? It was a. It was a complete land buy. So I. I do think there, like, that's why I was hesitant to compare the two sales. Right. Like, in theory, it could happen, but I didn't want to compare the sales of the Mavs to this one just for that reason.
- [24:31]
Howard Beck
It's more just the fact that you don't know what an owner is going to do until they start actually having to make decisions. Right? Like what their personality and their approach and their philosophy is going. Going to be. The Adelsons could have come in without any NBA experience as. As they don't have and purely for casino purposes and land purposes and wall. And they still could have ended up being good owners. It's possible they haven't, but they could have.
- [24:58]
Logan Murdoch
I just. I could not imagine just being, like, known for one thing, and that one thing being, like, forever known for one thing forever. And I got a long life to live, so that might happen. But, like, no matter what you do, you are known as the people that trade away. Luka Dodge. Right. Like, no matter what happens always goes back to the disappointment of Dallas. But let's table this discussion for now. I'm sure we'll be talking about this in the coming months, but Boston Celtics new ownership group let's take a quick break and do a vibes Check for the Cleveland Cavaliers before buck naked underwear.
- [25:40]
Howard Beck
Going out naked was a negative.
- [25:42]
Logan Murdoch
Grocery shopping in the nude, a big no. No.
- [25:47]
Howard Beck
Sunday service in the buff, odd desk.
- [25:51]
Logan Murdoch
Service and naked in the garage. Just odd.
- [25:56]
Howard Beck
Turn naked into a net positive with.
- [25:59]
Logan Murdoch
Buck naked underwear and feel like wearing nothing at all anywhere.
- [26:05]
Howard Beck
Get buck naked at your Duluth trading store today at T Mobile I'm joined by a special co anchor.
- [26:11]
Logan Murdoch
What up everybody? It's your boy. Big Snoop deal.
- [26:13]
Howard Beck
Double G Snoop where can people go to find great deals?
- [26:16]
Logan Murdoch
Head to T mobile.com and get four iPhone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks.
- [26:23]
Howard Beck
That's quite a deal. Snoop. And when you switch to T Mobile you can save versus the other big guys. Comparable plans plus streaming respect when we.
- [26:30]
Logan Murdoch
Up out of here, see how you.
- [26:32]
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- [26:35]
Howard Beck
Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later Daredevil.
- [26:39]
Logan Murdoch
Is born again on Disney Plus.
- [26:41]
Howard Beck
My name is Matthew Murdoch.
- [26:43]
Logan Murdoch
I'm a lawyer. Exactly what kind of a lawyer are you?
- [26:47]
Howard Beck
A really good one.
- [26:49]
Logan Murdoch
Critics everywhere agree it's the best Marvel television series. Gritty, intense and elevate him. It's Daredevil at his best.
- [26:58]
Howard Beck
If you step out of line, I will be there.
- [27:02]
Logan Murdoch
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- [29:28]
Howard Beck
You'll be shocked to hear this, but I have a personal experience reference point that involves the Los Angeles Lakers. Phil Jackson, did you cover the.
- [29:37]
Logan Murdoch
Did you cover the Los Angeles Lakers once upon a time or something?
- [29:39]
Howard Beck
You know what's really funny? There was when I was first covering the Lakers, and the guys who covered them in the 80s would occasionally come through, and they were no longer the beat writers. Now they were like columnists or feature writers. And they would start rhapsodizing about the Showtime days, and I'd be like, ah, here we go, another Showtime story. And here I am all these years later. I'm the stupid old guy rambling on about back in the day.
- [29:57]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, that's like Marcus Thompson just waxes poetic on we believe. There's nothing else before that. But like, it's like, yeah, man. You know what I'm saying? You know? Yeah, we never knew about we believe, man. You know, he was outside.
- [30:09]
Howard Beck
That's your Marcus Thompson impression.
- [30:11]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, it's a. Yeah, that's a spot on Marcus Thompson impression too, by the way.
- [30:17]
Howard Beck
Ready to bring on Marcus for a rebuttal. That was.
- [30:20]
Logan Murdoch
You know what I'm saying? Oh, my God, Really? Stokely, man.
- [30:25]
Howard Beck
On behalf of the real ones, Marcus, I apologize for my partner.
- [30:32]
Logan Murdoch
Liam. All right, Enough, Okay?
- [30:37]
Howard Beck
No. So The Lakers in 99, 2000, first year under Phil Jackson, they won 67 games. Guess how many double digit winning streaks they had Logan 3.
- [30:49]
Logan Murdoch
Wait, wait. Well, you didn't let me do it. That. This is, this is a. What was the question? Because I didn't fully get it. I know it was three, but what was the question?
- [30:56]
Howard Beck
Just how many double winning streaks they had.
- [30:58]
Logan Murdoch
Which year was this?
- [31:00]
Howard Beck
99, 2000.
- [31:01]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, let me guess. They had. Let me see. They had. Because they had 18 one once. That was the record. It was a record for them, I think, at the time. Or it was like the second best to 33. Then I think they had two 16 ones.
- [31:17]
Howard Beck
I think one of them actually ended at 10. I think one of them, like, they just got there.
- [31:22]
Logan Murdoch
I'll.
- [31:22]
Howard Beck
I'll look it up while we're talking. But the thing I remember about that season, other than, like, how incredible it was that they could put together multiple double digit win streaks in the same season. So they had, like I say, they had three. So it goes 16 early in the season, that stretched into January, and then a 19. That's the one you were talking about. That ended in mid March. And then they had an 11 game. I was off by one. That ended in early April. That.
- [31:50]
Logan Murdoch
Did they lose to the. Did they lose to the Wizards after that? 191 does that. Did they lose that. Was that the one where they ended it?
- [31:57]
Howard Beck
Yeah, you see me look at that. Lost the Wizards 109, 102 on March 16, 2000, and then immediately 111 after that. So they ended up going like 30 out of 31. Like that. That shit's just crazy. And one of the things I remember about it, and the reason I bring it up, other than to just be old man rhapsodizing about the good old days, is that there's a certain, like, monotony to it at a certain point for the, for the players, for the fans, for everybody. Like, it's awesome winning that much. Like, there's no downside to winning, but it takes a lot out of you, for one. And then the. The streak. And remember when the Heat had that huge streak during the. The LeBron and Wade era? It was the same kind of thing where it's like, there's a certain pressure now you're. Now you feel like you've got to keep extending it. So instead of the natural, like, letdowns you sometimes have in the course of a season where you win five, you lose two, you win seven, you lose one, instead you're kind of like putting everything in every night. The other thing that I always remember is that Phil Jackson was always thrilled when they, when the Lakers Lost because it was like, these guys think they know everything. Now they're not listening to anything anymore. I need them to lose so I can, like, say, see, dumbasses, you don't know everything.
- [33:15]
Logan Murdoch
We're going to work on this today question. What's your Phil Jackson impression?
- [33:21]
Howard Beck
Not as brutal as your Marcus Thompson. The third impression.
- [33:25]
Logan Murdoch
Vine was accurate, though.
- [33:26]
Howard Beck
So Phil is just the gravelly thing. When we were doing Phil Jackson impressions, and by we, I mean, like, every single one of us who covered the Lakers, we'd be sitting there in the press room just, like, doing the.
- [33:36]
Logan Murdoch
All right, guys, what do you got?
- [33:37]
Howard Beck
Why am I talking to you again?
- [33:39]
Logan Murdoch
What.
- [33:39]
Howard Beck
What can you guys possibly ask me now that you didn't already ask me three times in the last 24 hours? Because Phil would get annoyed when it was, like, especially, like, playoffs. It's like, we talk pregame, we talk post game, and there's a practice the next day. Nothing has changed.
- [33:52]
Logan Murdoch
And, like, the. Would Phil do the whistle, but, like, whistle to get you guys to come over?
- [33:58]
Howard Beck
That whistle's incredible. I never could do that. Always pissed me off. People who could do the. The too pinky thing under the. Under the tongue or whatever. No, he did not whistle at us. That was usually just for the players. Phil had a hat that he busted out. One of those years. It just said. I think it was like a. A brand of some sort, but it just was a baseball cap that said blah, blah, blah on it, which was perfect, because that was, like, his, like, not so subtle message toward us. I think when we're gathering around post practice and it is just a blah, blah, blah session, like, here we go. We're going to just, like, throw these mundane questions at you again.
- [34:31]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, what? I give. Whatever, Phil. Because Phil used y'all so much. He used the media so much to his advantage and didn't want to say, oh, I got to talk to y'all, even though he was going to use y'all to fucking shit on a player on his roster to get him to motivate him. We know the vibes, Phil.
- [34:47]
Howard Beck
Phil was good at all that, but also, like, he was really great with the media, like, for whatever anybody might say about him. Like, and. And, yeah, some of that manipulation and the message sending, like, all that's in there, it's all baked in. And there were times where it's also a little bit of, like, Phil doing the passive aggressive. Like, oh, what do I have to talk to you guys? But he enjoyed it. Like, he. He app. He absolutely had fun with it. And he gave us plenty of great material over the five years I covered him, so. But he liked when they lost.
- [35:12]
Logan Murdoch
You hear that, Steve? You heard that, Steve? You got a lot to live up to. My dog. You hear that? I'm shooting. I'm. I'm the bow. Bow, bow, bow.
- [35:22]
Howard Beck
He was only one of the best interviews in the NBA. You're out of pocket, Logan. No, but, like, when a team wins too much, if there's such a thing, you can lose track of the fundamentals sometimes when you're just. If you're just more talented than everybody and certainly, like Shaq and Kobe, that was a thing, right? They were just so much more talented than everybody else that they could give a B effort and still beat a lot of teams. The Cavs aren't at that level, but they're really, really good. And I think they're. They're probably, you know, if we gave Kenny Atkinson true serum, I wonder if Kenny would tell us, like, yeah, good to lose a few so that I can, you know, work on some of the fundamentals that maybe had slipped along the way that we were getting away with. And, like, that's a real thing. It happens. And. And my guess is this is not some, you know, moment to panic for the Cavs. This is just the. It's late in the season. It's hard to sustain that night in, night out, when it was, you know, when it becomes an actual modest losing streak, maybe it's a little more concerning. But the Cavs are still going into the playoffs. You know, as long as they're healthy as the biggest threat to the Celtics in the East. You know, those are the. Those are the two teams we're all still focused on. I don't think anything's changed me.
- [36:35]
Logan Murdoch
You and Isaiah were looking at the Eastern Conference standings pre pod. Yuck. They'll be fine. The Cavaliers will be fine. It's. It's going to be okay. All right. It's. It's a slow news week. Jesus.
- [36:49]
Howard Beck
I mean, the Knicks are dragging. The Pacers have revived themselves, which is interesting. The Bucks are kind of all over the map. The Pistons are at least, you know, they've got everybody's attention. But.
- [37:01]
Logan Murdoch
But yeah, the Cavs will be playing. The Cavs will be playing like one of the Hawks. Magic, Bulls and Heat. Like, I mean, if they do play, if they do have to play. The Magic. The Magic. We were discussing this pre pod. The Magic aren't necessarily, like, a good team, but you are going to feel them like it's going to be it's going to be tough. Like you're going to win the series, but you're going to, you know, like I said, it's like when I play you and one on one I'm a win, but like I'm going to be hurting afterwards.
- [37:27]
Howard Beck
So, you know, as much as I have supported the play in and I think it's on balance, been a great addition. Man, the way the east shakes out year after year just makes me feel like, like, like why are we even bothering?
- [37:40]
Logan Murdoch
I don't just, hey, can we just do the plan for the Western Conference? Can we just legislate that until that sucks and then we can legislate that one out or I don't know.
- [37:48]
Howard Beck
Remember we used to talk all the time about, oh, we should just, you know, do the 1 through 16 without respect to conference kind of thing. Like, let's at least do that for the play in. Like if, if there are Eastern Conference teams that aren't even, you know, that are 10 games below, 11 games below.500, the Miami Heat and they're going to be a play in team, can't we just sub them out for like the Trailblazers or something who are only eight games below.500?
- [38:08]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, that, that would be, that'll be lit. Let me see what else.
- [38:11]
Howard Beck
This is a, this is a bad year for the play. And I mean for the east specifically. I don't need to see any of those teams. I don't need the Hawks.
- [38:18]
Logan Murdoch
Western Conference, though. I'm cool with the Western Conference.
- [38:20]
Howard Beck
The west is fine through eight for sure. Clippers and Timberwolves deserve to be in play. The Kings. Sons, yo, the Kings, the Suns, the Maverick. I don't, I just. These are teams that just need to go away. Logan, like, enough. You're, you're, you're. You know, I don't know where you guys are headed, but like let, let us know in July. I don't need, I don't need more of them in April.
- [38:44]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, no. Okay, let's talk quickly though, before we, we, we get you out of here. Let's talk about sitting out once again. We talked about it a little bit. We pump faked a little bit about like, you know, YIC and by the way, guys, only reason why I noticed is because Howard brought it to my attention. But if y'all don't relax, all the real ones out there, just relax, okay? We just were sad that Yin just didn't play. It's, it's just, that's all it was.
- [39:17]
Howard Beck
We didn't criticize Him. We didn't criticize the Nuggets. We didn't rip anybody. We didn't see anybody was dogging it. We didn't say anybody was bailing. We didn't. We just said it was stupid. It was a bummer that we didn't see him.
- [39:27]
Logan Murdoch
Like, the real ones are serious, and you're finally figuring that out. Howard. Howard. Also, please stop sending me tweets about what people are saying or skies or whatever the fuck. I don't care. They're just gonna argue with.
- [39:39]
Howard Beck
You lead a much healthier life. You lead a much more mentally healthy life than I do, because you stay.
- [39:43]
Logan Murdoch
Away from this stuff.
- [39:44]
Howard Beck
And I sit there and read it.
- [39:45]
Logan Murdoch
I'm over here, like, trying to do. It was Thursday. I'm like, yo, I'm calling. How are you? Yo, what you want to talk about? He's like, these are good. It's all interesting. And I'm like, I don't care, bro. Like, you could turn that on.
- [40:01]
Howard Beck
And yet you just brought it up.
- [40:03]
Logan Murdoch
Well, because the only reason why I know about it is because of you.
- [40:05]
Howard Beck
That's my bad.
- [40:07]
Logan Murdoch
Jeez. All the real ones, relax completely.
- [40:09]
Howard Beck
Okay?
- [40:10]
Logan Murdoch
Shout out to all the real ones.
- [40:11]
Howard Beck
You know, by the way, we appreciate you all listening, and even if I disagree with some of your critiques at times, I appreciate you all listening and engaging. It's great. It's awesome.
- [40:20]
Logan Murdoch
Just relax. Everybody just relax. Just chill.
- [40:23]
Howard Beck
It's not that serious. It's just sports.
- [40:25]
Logan Murdoch
Anyways. I just, you know, sniffed out two minutes of our pod. But anyways, Luca sat out last night against the Bucks. Another national television game, right? And then the game before that, Nicola Jokic sat out against the Lakers. My. My gears are grinding because I hate this. This is like, what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing?
- [40:49]
Howard Beck
Tom Haberstrough, our buddy over at Yahoo and other places. Hashtag this March sadness, which I like. That was good. Like, the NBA does have a March problem, and it's at both ends of the standings. Spectrum, right? Because you've got losing teams that are pulling the plug because they want to play the young guys and lose games and enhance their lottery odds. And you've got winning teams that are, you know, hey, Lukas, banged up. Jokic is banged up. Jamal Murray's banged up. I'm missing some. Did Shea take a game off this week? Like. Like, you're. You're strategically resting because, you know, hey, everybody's banged up at this point in the season. Like, ask any NBA player. This is one of the standard cliches right? Like everyone's banged up at this point in the season. It's all legit and you're trying to now to get ready for the playoffs. Again, legit. But sucks for fans, sucks for the product at times, sucks for your national TV partners when they're skipping those games and especially if it's a marquee game like Nuggets warriors, as we discussed earlier in the week. And it's a bad look and it makes for discussions like this and then people hand wring about the state of the NBA. I will say this, and I don't have the numbers in front of me. I apologize. But I was chatting with with someone at the league office this morning on a different topic, but they noted that in fact the player participation policy is still having a net positive effect that I think there might be a little bit more missed games by stars this season than last season, which was the first year of the new policy. But they're still better off than where they were a couple years ago. The league feels like that policy is in fact working. The numbers bear it out. The number of games missed by stars is still not as bad as it was a few years back. And to the extent that there's a lot of players missing games and you know, Haberstro tweeted out a list the other day and it is a staggering list. But the list included guys who were legitimately hurt. Like Kyrie Irving is on there, he's got a torn acl. Anthony Davis is on there and he's obviously been out for weeks with a real injury. Like some of this is just happenstance. There's injuries. It's the resting part of it that I think makes it frustrating for fans. And then you combine that with the teams at the other end who are, you know, who are tanking, who have pulled the plug and it makes for a really awkward March product in a March discussion and it makes for some warped outcomes. I don't know what the answer is. I guarantee you the league is still scrutinizing it themselves because they don't like it either.
- [43:19]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, it's just, I, I know. Like it's just more of a frustration thing. Right? Like, it is what it is and I, it's not a necessarily like I'm pissed about like I know people got injuries and stuff like that. I just don't want to turn on my television and I get like, you know, you see the thing like oh yeah, Yoko's about to play da da da. Or like Luka's about to play Giannis, and I'm like, I want to see this. And now I'm. No disrespect to anybody, but, like, that game was a wash. Like, last night, that Laker game was a wash. I mean, I know you didn't watch it because it was. It's. It's at 1:30 in the morning and, like, you're not even watching.
- [43:58]
Howard Beck
I didn't watch it because I was busy trying to write about the Celtics sale until 2 in the morning, so.
- [44:04]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, all right, my bad. I'm sorry. My bad. I apologize. Sorry, guys.
- [44:09]
Howard Beck
I was working, man.
- [44:11]
Logan Murdoch
All right. You were working, man. I know, I know. It's fine. Like, if the NBA don't want to, like, get it right and I'll just watch juju for the next three weeks, and I'm probably going to do that anyway, so, you know, it's fine. It's fine. You got any fix for the. For the March Madness, anything like that?
- [44:26]
Howard Beck
You know, I don't watch college.
- [44:27]
Logan Murdoch
I'm in. I'm in a. I'm in a bracket with Valencia and sear it for women's college. Women's college basketball. And you're damn right I picked usc, just so everybody knows. And I picked Columbia to. To upset Duke. Yes, I did that, too. So let's go. I hope I win. Go ahead. Whatever you were saying, Howard, Go ahead. Go ahead.
- [44:52]
Howard Beck
No, I mean, the. The NBA walks a fine line with these policies. Right? Like, you. You cannot dictate to a team when to play your players. You can tell them, don't rest multiple stars on a national game, or you.
- [45:08]
Logan Murdoch
Can, like, investigate the injury and say, that wasn't a. That wasn't an actual injury.
- [45:13]
Howard Beck
And they do. And they do. And the reason they have. Right. Like the Jokic thing the other night, the. The league's approach to that was, it's not a problem if he's legitimately hurt and let. We'll see where this goes. And he's. He's now missed another what? Another game or two. So, like, I think that that underscores. This wasn't just a rest game for Jokic. It was like, legitimately needing to. To. To heal up from a specific injury or maybe multiple. But the NBA walks a fine line because you cannot manage somebody's rotation from Olympic Tower in midtown Manhattan. You can.
- [45:46]
Logan Murdoch
It's kind of like flopping. You know what I mean? Like, it's in the way where it's. It's the intent, you know? Like, you can. On some ways, you could see that it's like a flagrant violation or whatever of flopping. And they tried to legislate it out that way. And some ways you just can't. Like, it's, it's all subjective in this way. Right. Like, it is really hard to police sort of things like this.
- [46:07]
Howard Beck
Yeah. But it's also like there's been a couple of teams. I think Toronto's done this. I think Utah has done this. Apologies if I have impugned anybody or if I have missed anybody that I should have impugned. But there are teams now that are clearly in the lottery chase where they're playing their best guys. And then middle of the third quarter, fourth quarter comes along and suddenly it's a G league team on the floor. And there's a lot of, lot of, like, stuff like that happening right now. And it's not great. And the league doesn't, you know, doesn't. Isn't thrilled to see it. But again, the NBA at the league level, at the front, at the Olympic tower level, they can't tell the Raptors who to play or the Jazz who to play. And if they're not holding guys like the Jazz got fined for not playing Larry Markkanen because he wasn't legitimately hurt. They were just resting him. But you also can't say, play him 38 minutes or make sure he plays the fourth quarter of a tight game. There are limits here to what the league can do.
- [47:05]
Logan Murdoch
Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rghelp.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. Let's get a. Let's go to a little segment we like to call ruin of the week. Howard has been really stressing over this, guys, and I'm trying to tell him it's not that serious. I asked him, do you have your real one of the week? He was like, I don't know, because I gotta make it perfect.
- [47:55]
Howard Beck
Oh, now, now we're doing, now we're doing impressions of me.
- [47:59]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my God, I need to make it perfect.
- [48:01]
Howard Beck
That was, that was slightly Less insulting than your impression of Marcus Thompson, which.
- [48:07]
Logan Murdoch
Is wild, because the 1. If Marcus hears this, he's gonna know that this is. That was an accurate representation of what his accent is. Yours wasn't. I did some sort of, like, luck of the Irish type thing. I don't know. Oh, my God. I don't know what that was. And I. And you're. And you're more offended by the accurate Marcus Thompson one, which is wild.
- [48:28]
Howard Beck
I'm way more offended on Marcus's behalf than mine.
- [48:30]
Logan Murdoch
Why? He knows it's true.
- [48:33]
Howard Beck
He's not even here to defend himself. And it sounded, like, absolutely ridiculous.
- [48:38]
Logan Murdoch
Besides, wow. See, now you guessing it. Now you're gassing it. It wasn't even. That was. It was. It was more of an homage. And now you're making. It's more of an homage. Really stoked in Mike. Oh, throwing up the hundreds.
- [48:56]
Howard Beck
Oh, my God. All right, you demanded a real one of the week. I give you Bronnie James.
- [49:05]
Logan Murdoch
Wow.
- [49:07]
Howard Beck
Listen, I think, you know, actually not. Because early in the season when you were. When you were out on paternity leave, and Raj and I would like briefly touch on this, and then I would always, always make it clear then. And maybe you. You and I've had this discussion. Like, I just don't. The Bronnie James discourse and LeBron and Bronnie discourse and all the other discourse around the discourse has been driving me nuts all season, and I've tried to stay away from it because, like, just. Just let the kid have his career. I understand why people fixate on, you know, him, his dad, everything. But, like, just. Just let him have the space and the oxygen to grow and develop into whatever he's going to develop into. I don't care about all the rest of it and the politics of it. So all that said, real one of the week, Bronnie James, because kid just had the best night of his. Of his young career. 30 minutes last night coming off the bench against the Bucks. 17 points, 7 for 10 from the field. Made two of his four threes, five assists, three rebounds. Like, he's a minus 36. But, you know, listen, let's. Let's focus on the positive right now. Rough night for the Lakers without Luca, without LeBron, but great night for Bronnie James. Like, I don't care, even if it's a meaning, a more or less meaningless late March game. What you do in those minutes matters, and making progress matters. And I don't know what his career will look like ultimately. And again, I'm not One who's fixated on that, but I think it's a great night for him. So congrats to Bronnie James.
- [50:36]
Logan Murdoch
I. I think I just. Congrats to what to Bronny James. He was, he was balling in like the garbage time minutes. Shout out to him. That was really. It was fun to watch. Like, it's legitimately a story. Like I said beforehand, I wish you can, like kind of have the lights dimmed on him for a little longer, but that's just not the case. Like you're going to see his highs, you're going to see his lows, and you know, he's going to get stronger from that. So congrats to him. I put the. I think I just, I pump faked it earlier, but I'm going to just give it to the growth specs, man, as a family dog. 6. Billy is pretty cool, actually. 7 Billy in your pockets. Hell of an investment after 23 years, you know, got two titles out of that thing. Had a good run. Set up your family for generations of generations, you know, shout out to them.
- [51:29]
Howard Beck
I thought your real one of the week was going to be Marcus Thompson. Just to make up for him for all the slander.
- [51:34]
Logan Murdoch
It wasn't slander.
- [51:36]
Howard Beck
Mockery.
- [51:37]
Logan Murdoch
Stand on was imitation.
- [51:42]
Howard Beck
God, I hope he hears this. Someone send him. Send him. Someone send him the audio, please.
- [51:46]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, we'll see. We'll see. I wonder what his impression of me is that. Hello, I'm Logan Murdoch. I don't know. I don't know. Anyways, that was Friday vibes. We get a little loopy on Fridays. Usually it's me and Raja who are getting loopy, but, you know, we brought Howard back into the fold. I hope you didn't lose brain cells doing this, this Friday exercise with us.
- [52:13]
Howard Beck
I think somehow my filing of a story at 2am Might have had an impact on my loopiness today.
- [52:18]
Logan Murdoch
For sure. For sure. Well, shout out Howard. It's gonna be me and Howard on Tuesday. Which Tuesday pod? Which is the Real Ones Mailbag episode. So real ones mailbag gmail.com realwellback@gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.Com Me and Howard will be on that one. No Raja on that particular pod. But anyways, shout out to Howard, shout out to Isaiah, shout out to Victoria, and we will see you guys on Tuesday. Tap in all this shit's bye.