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The Ringer NBA Show
The Clippers Get Absolutely Waxed in Game 7. Plus, the Biggest Questions of Round 2 and Game 7 of Rockets-Warriors. | Group Chat
01:04:19
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- [00:01]
Justin Varior
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- [00:49]
Rob Mahoney
This episode is brought to you by Cognigy. Customer Service can be so frustrating waiting on hold, being transferred around, repeating yourself. So flip the script with Cognigy's AgentIQ AI. Their AI agents do more than automate. They collaborate seamlessly, integrating into any system. AgentIQ AI works alongside your customer care team to deliver service, support and experiences at scale, reducing costs and making customers happy. Experience Cognigy's AgentIQ AI@cognigy.com Happy you're listening.
- [01:19]
Big Waz
To the Ringer NBA Show Presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. Even even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior and joining me, Rob Mahoney. Big Waz guys, the two best words in NBA playoff podcasting Probably Saigon's fall. But right after that I would say Game seven. In most circumstances I wouldn't say this Game seven is going to go down in the anals and if it does, it's probably for the wrong reasons for the Clippers.
- [02:38]
Rob Mahoney
Go down in the what?
- [02:40]
Drew
He said the anals is the anals, bro. This Guy is. You're.
- [02:46]
Rob Mahoney
You're bringing Clippers energy to this podcast. And wasn't I. We're going to bring Nuggets energy.
- [02:50]
Drew
That's right.
- [02:51]
Big Waz
I think we should know that's.
- [02:53]
Rob Mahoney
That's got to stay in. We're just trucking on through it.
- [02:56]
Drew
People need that.
- [02:58]
Big Waz
This was quite a competitive first half, and then the Clippers absolutely fucking collapsed in the third quarter, which we could talk about. I want to give the Nuggets their due, but for the Clippers to lay down in the fourth quarter of this game, I don't care how much the deficit was. I don't care if it was 50. I don't. I don't care if it was 60. To pull Kawhi Leonard and James Harden at the top of the fourth quarter when there's literally nothing else to do beyond this was putrid. We got Devin Eubanks minutes in the middle of the fourth quarter of this game. I cannot believe how embarrassing this was for the Clippers. This was awful.
- [03:38]
Rob Mahoney
Well, Drew Eubanks, if we're. If we're being specific about it. But look, I. I think of all the things that the Clippers can be embarrassed about, this is not super high on my list. Like, how they played in the third quarter is what they should be embarrassed about. The way they got absolutely shut out of this game while ostensibly going to their better lineups. Right. They. They trimmed all the fat out. They said, we're not playing Chris Dunn and Derek Jones anymore for this stretch of time. We're putting Nick Baton back on the floor. 100 Nuggets run coming out of the gate, like, just gave up the game right there. In. In, I would say, to your point, had been pretty competitive in the second quarter. Pretty competitive in the first half. I thought Denver kind of shifted the energy of the game going zone in the second, and they just never gave it up the rest of the way. I mean, was. Did you. Like, why do you think this happened? Like, why did the Clippers not have the life to compete in a Game seven?
- [04:29]
Drew
I can't put my finger on it. I think Denver, to their credit, executed at a really high level offensively and defensively. To be honest, man, Kawhi Leonard was doing some, like, incredible Kawhi Leonard shit. But that was about the only thing that they could get going at all. Whereas Denver on offense, they just were super sharp, precise. Um, you know, most of their baskets were assisted. Like, I just think they executed at a crazy high level. And for whatever reason, the Clippers just could not match the moment in terms of their intensity and just an attention to detail. Like, Denver went into a 2, 3 zone at one point, and these. You would have thought that these guys added a sixth and seventh man to their defense. The way the Clippers just straight up looked completely lost by the time that they did that. And so, like, even watching the second quarter where Denver outscores them by 15 points, I'm watching, I'm like, it doesn't feel like they're killing these dudes, but then they come out and score 17 straight to open up the third, and it's like, wow, this game is basically over for all intents and purposes. Inexplicable, honestly. I mean, maybe the James Harden part isn't in the sense that it's like. It's almost like a fast and a furious or final destination at this point. It's like this is like part 90th of this series of James Harden not showing up in the biggest moments for his team. But I'm honestly at a loss for words for how bad the Clippers ended up being from the first quarter, which was hyper competitive. They go it like they're playing great defense, they're up by five. It's like, okay, this, this is about to be a slug fest, basically the way the entire series was. And then for it to just go so haywire the next two quarters is. Is something I, I will be confused by for a while.
- [06:25]
Big Waz
We've talked about the death disparity between the two teams and how much of an advantage the Clippers have that simply because they have guys beyond five players. Yeah, unfortunately, in this game, minus like a couple early good minutes from Derrick Jones Jr. And a couple late buckets from Derek Jones Jr. The bench completely was a non factor. Bogey was awful. Batum wasn't hitting shots like he has previously, there just like, wasn't much to really go from there. And on the flip side, yet again, you get so much verve, so much energy, so much hustle from Christian Brown, from Russell Westbrook, from Aaron Gordon. It just like seemed like it almost overwhelmed at a certain point. Like that has time and time again in the biggest moments of this series been such an advantage for Denver that those guys are just busting ass, are kind of giving them an athletic pop that the Clippers can just not match. And it just felt like something just completely subsumed the Clippers. The point where, like, Norm Powell was dribbling off his foot in that third quarter, it's just like, it was just like a perfect storm.
- [07:29]
Rob Mahoney
It was a Perfect storm. I mean, I think that synergy, that collective playmaking, clearly that's difficult for any team to overcome when Denver really has it going, when the Nuggets are also playing this level of defense, like you mentioned was like it's, it's kind of a non starter even if you're a team that's as theoretically talented and theoretically as deep as the Clippers. And I think those Derrick Jones minutes early and those baskets early were kind of a double edged sword, to be honest with you. Denver was leaving Jones and later done all by himself even more aggressively than they had at any point in the series.
- [07:58]
Big Waz
Speaking specifically about the first couple minutes, yes, eventually Derek Jones Jr. Stopped making threes and he was an I factor.
- [08:04]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, even in those early minutes, like he had seven really quick points. But then you look up and it's like Derek Jones is taking half of the Clippers shots. Like he's just so they were giving them him, right? They're surrendering these shots to Derrick Jones and later surrendering these shots to Kendrick Nunn when he's on the floor. And it's like if those guys aren't going to hit and they didn't hit enough, not nearly enough, you're just not going to be able to create enough stable offense that way. And then you see the Clippers scrambling to find the bodies, to find the right combinations. But honestly, I thought that stretch in the, in the first alone also kind of pulled some of the life out of the Clippers offense. Like they were able to scrape by with enough points to stay in the game, but it already felt like they were losing grip on the rope.
- [08:43]
Drew
And another thing that I noticed today, there was just a certainty that Murray and Yic played with. Whereas like early on in the series, Murray especially, but even Jokic, like there were just times where they just felt unsure and they were turning the ball over and they were taking shots at the end of the shot clock and there was just an uncertainty to how they attacked. Whereas today, Murray just looked comfortable, like he knew what he wanted to do when Dunn was guarding him. He knew what he wanted to do when, you know, he got Harden on him or he got, you know, or bogey on him or any of that stuff. Jokic the same thing. It's like, oh, when they went to that sort of take Zubac off of him and guard Jokic with a guard or a wing and have Zubacz kind of roving, he knew exactly how he wanted to attack that. And that's kind of the nature of Most playoff series. Right. Like, it's the teams that can adjust to things that are bothering them and sort of bring out a different golf club, if you will, and, you know, still be able to execute. So that's, that's another thing that stuck out to me. Um, and also, yeah, Russ, when he came in was, that was nuts. Um, he completely dominated the game when he came. He just changed the tenor with his energy, man. Um, and he's making shots and he's diamond people up and he's getting in passing lanes. He's leading the break. It was in. It's just unfathomable.
- [10:06]
Rob Mahoney
He's hanging from the rim and teeing himself up. Like, I, I'm glad he got that moment. That was Genu, genuinely awesome dude.
- [10:13]
Drew
Yeah. Like, just to, I don't know, I, I thought this game was going to be so close, like so many of these games in this series has been, and for it to end up being, you know, a 33 point deficit with like 10 minutes to go on the 4th is just gobsmacking.
- [10:29]
Big Waz
It's just crazy because I, I, I go back to those three guys yet again because Russ was spectacular in this game and to come up with one of the like two good Russ games you're going to get in the seven game series is in the biggest moments is pretty spec. Brown has just been such a consistent source of steady play on both ends in a way that the Clippers are constantly cycling through other guys. Just feels like the Clippers are just so much more reliant than everybody else beyond Harden and Leonard in order to get past what the Nuggets have. And once again, Harden like vomits up one of the worst performances we've seen. He was -29 in this game. He had, he was spraying it a little bit, but just like you could not get past anybody. It was just, it was ridiculous.
- [11:13]
Rob Mahoney
It was really tough. I think Christian Brown ultimately played bigger than basically any Clipper, like cutting into the lane pump faking guys, finishing through contact in a way that you flash to the other side of the court. No Clippers are really doing that. Short of Kawhi kind of lowering his shoulder and creating some space against some guys like him being able to do that. There were so many players in this game where I wondered kind of what we were going to get from them. You know, James Harden, Michael Porter Jr. Even Kawhi, given kind of how up and down he's been in this series as a scorer, I'm not really sure what to expect from those guys. There was one player I just did not have that feeling about. And it was Aaron Gordon who always shows up in games like this. Like always is a huge factor in exactly this sort of situation. And I thought was again, and you can see it sort of across the box score where it's a lot of like various nuggets with four or five rebounds, four or five assists, like sharing responsibility, sharing the ball. And was you mentioned Jamal Murray's place in that too? I think this was like, Jamal Murray had 16 points and two assists. I thought he played kind of a perfect game. Like, I don't remember a single possession where he tried to do too much. I don't remember a single possession where he looked off Jokic after Jokic got hardened on a switch in the pick and roll. Like he did his job to a, like a finely tuned perfection in a way that no one on the Clippers really did.
- [12:26]
Drew
Yeah, what Gordon was doing, especially early on where he is just carving out a space on the block and he's, you know, drawing fouls, drawing help, he's just playing with a level of, you know, aggression that Denver obviously needed today. And I think it just set a tone for the team. Um, they were just physical today. Like Jokic had a block at the rim, you know, where he's like on help side and he shuffles his way over and is, you know, like he's Hakeem Olajuwon and getting blocks. It was just collectively these guys were so ready and you know, even when they were down in the first quarter, they still looked, you know, like they were patient and was like, all right, we're going to find our spots. We know where the soft spots of these defenses are and you know, they, they, the strategicness with which they left guys open, you know, whether it was Dunn or Derrick Jones Jr. Again, that wasn't always there in the early parts of the series. And so, yeah, man, I, I thought that Harden pick and roll with Zubac would be a thorn in Denver side the entire series. It turns out that it didn't have to be. Um, and you know, and Harden too. Like the telltale sign when Harden is doing one of his BS playoff things is when he's doing the flailing and the foul drawing instead of just, you know, rising, firing, trying to can a jump shot, he's trying to get the referees to bail him out. It's like, oh, okay, this is where we have with Harden today and it killed the team and you know, Tyloo taking these guys out. Like, I text you guys I was like, wait a second. Kawhi and Harden are not playing right now, like, in the fourth quarter.
- [14:13]
Rob Mahoney
While 10:30 in the fourth quarter, both.
- [14:15]
Drew
Those guys are seeing a deficit. And, yo, to be honest, man, like, if you're Ty Lue and you watch the effort that these guys gave all third quarter and to start the fourth, I'm not really mad that he was like, you know what? I'm going to put my young bench guys in and figure something else out. Because these dudes clearly don't feel like giving it a maximum effort today.
- [14:34]
Big Waz
I would have left them in. I think it's more embarrassing to force them to play an entire fourth quarter in which they made the bed for themselves. We need to talk about Harden here. We need to, like, pause and just kind of almost light the candles for yet another awful Harden performance. Like, Wise, is this, like, this has to go in, like, one of the, like, top five worst considering the stakes, considering how much we invested in the Clippers being good again, how much we believed in them going into this game and this series, in totality, this has to be top five. Mount Rushmore.
- [15:07]
Drew
So listeners will remember we had Michael Pina up here, and he was talking about how much he loved the Clippers and what they're doing. He was like, there's no reason to think that the Clippers will not be a successful playoff team. And I was like, really, Mike? And after game one, I swear to God, I almost text Michael Pena like, yo, I owe you an apology. James Harden is incredible, and I'm really happy I didn't do that.
- [15:32]
Rob Mahoney
Never apologize. Never do it.
- [15:34]
Drew
I mean, this is right there to me with 27. What was that, 2017 against Golden State? Or was that 2018 when they bricked like a million threes? The Houston Rockets? I forget which year that was. That game sticks out in my mind. The final two games against Boston after Philly was up 3 2, and these guys basically pissed the series away. That sticks in my mind. But today, you know, today it's a little bit different because it's like they're giving up 70 points in the middle of this game in the second and third quarter, right? As, you know, as bad as Harden was, like, a lot of it was just like the team just straight up didn't have it. So, you know, I like, he was horrible. I think, you know, talking to my Sixers buddies, they're like, don't worry, don't worry. It's going to happen. He's going to lay an egg, I promise you. But I just Couldn't foresee something this dramatic, man.
- [16:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, if I can make one prediction, we're recording this before the press conferences after this game have taken place. Assuming that James Harden talks to the media, which my understanding is he basically has it for most of the series, just been walking out the back door every game. If he has availability, he will say something to the effect of, I was just trying to be a facilitator out there. I was just trying to be a point guard out there. As he often does, as he did in particular in Philly, when he really laid some eggs in some really important games. I. I think James Harden's a great player, and I'm mystified by these kinds of performances. I don't understand why they keep happening. I think the only reason I would push back Justin on On the Mountain Rushmore of James Harden disappointments is because, like, in Houston, he was the only guy, or at least the defining guy of those teams. And thus him laying an egg in those games was so much more punitive than even this would be. And the combination of the defense, no showing, and like Kawhi also having just kind of a ho hum, okay game at the same time, it's like there's plenty of blame to go around for the Clippers. I think a good amount of it should be pointed at James Harden. But our. Our guy has. Has had some bad ones. He's had some real stinkers.
- [17:40]
Big Waz
Yeah, I would disagree, though, because if you looked at the times where he has no showed in this series specifically, those are the three of the worst performance that they've had. Like, those are the games that stand out. Like, he had the monster game one performance and they were in that game until the end. And that was partly why he seems to be the canary in the coal mine. Whatever you want to say about this team in this series specifically. Whereas Kawhi, he has been great at times, but he is just more methodical, more steady, and Harden is the guy typically pushing them over the top. If there's anyone to maybe share the blame, it was Powell, who apparently can't play on the road. I don't know if, like the altitude, like, messes with like his wind or what's going on there, but he was so good last game. And to just completely almost like, lose his powers like he's in Space Jam was just so disappointing because they needed him.
- [18:29]
Rob Mahoney
They needed him. They just needed a jolt from somebody. I like this was a game in which they were desperate for someone to come in off the bench and have the Russell Westbrook level of energy and investment. Not just the production, not just like the chaos he creates, but just the, just the energy alone. They needed a shot in the arm. And this is one of the problems when you have these sort of like veteran laden teams is who gives you the juice, who's really giving you that sort of influx of something you don't otherwise have.
- [18:54]
Drew
Yeah, they needed Batum, they needed, they needed Norm who had a fabulous season, borderline all star type of season career year at 29 or 30, however old norm is at this point, just did not have it today. And again, like I stress to people, like watching Denver just generate dunks and wide open threes and you know, when Jamal Murray isn't just walking guys to the rim for layups, it's that to me was going to stick apart like Harden's flailing. Definitely I'm going to remember from this game, but what I'm going to remember is like these alley oops and you know, these fast breaks and just so much easy buckets that these guys generated. That's what I'm going to most remember from this Game seven in particular.
- [19:46]
Big Waz
Harden indeed did not talk to the media. He left the arena. Apparently he did not talk after the last three Clippers losses. That sounds true. A total coincidence. I'm sure we will get the report two days from now that he also has like a hamstring strain. I'm sure he'll just follow in LeBron's that and just coming up with an injury all of a sudden after they're out of the series. I don't know what to do with this team anymore. I mean we only have one rule on this podcast which is to not trust the Pelicans. I think the Clippers, they need to.
- [20:17]
Rob Mahoney
Be in that catego.
- [20:19]
Big Waz
We have two rules at this point and we can't trust the Pelicans or the Clippers. But ironically the two teams I'm probably closest with over my career, I think.
- [20:25]
Rob Mahoney
It'S don't trust the Pelicans, period. Don't trust the Clippers in the playoffs. Might be the only asterisk I would put on that like slightly different cap because like they did get here with such gusto like down the stretch of the regular season and they did force.
- [20:38]
Big Waz
Yeah, not gusto.
- [20:41]
Rob Mahoney
Gusto.
- [20:42]
Big Waz
Gusto. You put a little accented good on that one.
- [20:47]
Rob Mahoney
Justin. But like they got here and they forced the Game seven like it. That's the thing. It's hard to hang it too much on them when they force the game seven but then they embarrass themselves in that Game seven about as badly as you possibly can.
- [20:59]
Drew
Also, I would say, have the Clippers looked worse than the Rockets or Dubs in this playoffs? I don't think so. Um, obviously they look better than Memphis. We know that for sure. But I don't think they had some like, horrible playoff showing. I just think, no, you know, they came up against a team that has way more continuity, has way more championship pedigree, especially as a collective, you know, not just a bunch of individuals who have had deep playoff runs. These guys have done it together a bunch of times. And so, you know, I think they came up against a better opponent, man, and that's just what it is. I think it's. I think I'm heartened by the fact that Kawhi actually finished a playoff on his feet for the first time in five years.
- [21:47]
Big Waz
That's pretty cool about the fourth quarter. Thing is, I actually was saying to myself, are they putting Kwai on ice just so that they could say that they finished a season with him healthy or because they bubble wrapped him so he wouldn't get an injury carrying into next season? That's how crazy this was.
- [22:04]
Rob Mahoney
Well, he shouldn't get an injury in a game you're losing by 30. Like, I think that's okay.
- [22:08]
Big Waz
He definitely wasn't going to get a hustle injury like diving after a ball, that's for sure.
- [22:12]
Rob Mahoney
I think, I think what's distressing to me about this game from a Clippers perspective is it felt like they weren't prepared for it mentally and emotionally. And this is like guys who have been in these games before, they're coached by Ty. Lou has certainly been in these games before and coached these sorts of games before.
- [22:27]
Big Waz
It's like four and oh, in game Sevens going into this.
- [22:30]
Rob Mahoney
There's really, there's really no reason you could articulate why this group of Clippers players wouldn't be able to meet the moment of what this game would require in terms of like the energy that it would take from them to compete. And that's where their biggest deficit was. And if, like, if we're going to talk about that, Ty Lu part of it too, and him being undefeated in those games. I got to say David Adelman coached a hell of a series. And I don't know what would have happened if Michael Mullen was the coach. I have zero idea. I just know David Adelman did his job against a pretty tough playoff counterpart.
- [22:58]
Drew
Wanted to, wanted to highlight David Adelman, man, who got put into A crazy situation. Um, basically just got thrown into the deep end right before a playoff run. And I think he's done a good job. And not just because they won. It's because, you know, like, there were things that they were having trouble dealing with. Like the Clippers were presenting them with problems on both offense and defense. And by Game seven, by golly, there was zero. I mean, they were getting what they wanted. They looked like the Nuggets of 2023 on offense and defensively, like, the positioning and everybody really having a great understanding of what the game plan was and executing at such a high level. Like, you know, I got to give this guy his props. He coached him up, man. And, you know, I thought, again, I thought it was lunacy that they would have fired their coach that late in the season, right before a playoff run. But I'll be goddamn if this team isn't energized, if they don't seem like they got a brand new vigor, a brand new pep in this. That, man is so. Salute to the Kronkies. Salute to David Adelman.
- [24:08]
Rob Mahoney
Like, I don't know if we're saluting the Kronkies, but, I mean, shoot, they.
- [24:11]
Drew
Had the balls to do this. Like, the season was going in a horrible direction. It really was. And they did something extremely bold. And it feels like it's paying off. And, like, this guy just seems so unassuming. He's like, literally, you know, a lot of times the cliche, like, you get the opposite. Like, if you get some hard ass, you get a player's coach afterwards or whatever. Like, he is so clearly the opposite temperamentally to what Michael Malone is and was, and maybe these guys are responding to that.
- [24:44]
Big Waz
Yeah, there could have been a galvanizing effect. I'll be honest. I don't know if he never. He really pulled any levers where I'm just like, oh, what a brilliant decision there. He started Zeke Najee, and all of a sudden it's just like, he unlocks Zignaji finally. Like, they had to play Jamal Murray 42 minutes in a, like a 30 minute blowout. He shortened the rotation, which is, I think, was the pretty obvious move there. I just think, like, the Nuggets, in their core five plus just had more consistently than the Clippers did. And what's so bad about this series for the Clippers as opposed to some of these other teams? We'll see what happens with the warriors, because they might blow a 31 lead at this point. We'll find out on Sunday. We'll talk about that a little bit later is just like the losses were just so absolutely painful. The two big ones that they lost Game one and then four back in LA were just right there for them. I think we all agreed at the time they should have won them. And this one is just like in such spectacular fashion to just completely just like lose the effort battle in a lot of these is. It's just. That's what's so bad about this from the Clippers perspective. It's that it was just so classic Clippers to lose in these sorts of ways.
- [25:55]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. I mean, fundamentally, to get run off the floor in a game where Jokic scored 16 points is kind of unforgivable. Like, you didn't even really make him push it at any point in this game. And so from that perspective, you get Fs all around. Just absolute failure in terms of this specific performance. The closest thing I could think of to this game was The Mavs Suns second round game seven, where the Suns ended up losing by like 33 points or something like that. And it was just so clear that, like, oh, these teams are not on the same competitive wavelength for this particular night. And again, I have no idea why that's the case for the Clippers. I have no way to explain it other than we just saw it and it was frankly embarrassing for most of the Clippers involved.
- [26:34]
Big Waz
Did Devin Booker play in the fourth quarter in that game?
- [26:37]
Rob Mahoney
We'll have to check the tape. We'll have to see when they. When they really pulled the plug.
- [26:41]
Big Waz
Yeah. Anything else you guys want to talk about from this one? Like, if I were to like, kind of forecast for the Clippers, like, they did such a good job of bulletproofing the roster post Paul George finding guys, they are. They do a good job of doing that. If I were to say what they need is actually Bogdan Bognanovic, but good. Like, they just need someone when they need offense to be able to turn to. Unfortunately, Bogey was pretty suspect.
- [27:05]
Drew
He could not hit a shot.
- [27:07]
Big Waz
Dude. His final line looks good from this one, but he was just unreliable every single time to the point where Batum was the biggest role player on this team and he's aging past the point where we thought he was going to retire three years ago. I feel like every season this is Batum swan song. It's going to be like that until he's 40.
- [27:24]
Rob Mahoney
But I think that they do need that. They clearly need a little bit more spacing just to unclog their offense. They also need other mechanisms for secondary Playmaking like all they have right now is they have the Harden like self creation and creation out of the pick and roll. Zoo, I thought over the course of this season proved himself pretty capable of sort of catching in the middle of the floor and spraying out and making plays, but that's all rooted in the same action. Like you need another means to connect dots and it doesn't really feel like unless Batum is involved sort of like swinging on the weak side or Zoo is involved helping guys out from the middle of the floor, they just don't have the means to actually diversify their offense right now.
- [28:04]
Big Waz
Watts, what do you think? Anything that jumps out to you for the Clippers going into the off season?
- [28:09]
Drew
I mean this is what the thing is though, when you are a five seed or four seed, you know, like you have a team that's too good to try to like make some major pivot, right? But at the same time, like they can't make some incredible acquisition either. It is going to be this more marginal kind of stuff. And you know, Kawhi still has that ticking time bomb of a knee. Harden is going to be a year older and so yeah, I'd like to see them, like you said, like an offensive player who can do more heavy lifting. Sort of like what Lou Will used to do for this team back in 2020, right, where it was just like, no, he would come in the game, him and Montrez Harold would literally carry the offense, you know, for stretches while they were in there. And I think they need somebody in that vein who can like actually shoulder some offensive burden so that it's not just all predicated on Harden being incredible and Kawhi being, you know, otherworldly, where we're like, oh, is he the best player in the league? We were doing that after game two, by the way. I just think they need a real solid offensive threat.
- [29:23]
Big Waz
Chris Dunn being essential personnel for this team ended up being what sparked their regular season success and ultimately probably didn't help them in a crucial game like this, especially as the series went on. Just him being an absolute non factor offensively just leaves him exposed in a way that I, I think a team like the Nuggets that at least one through five is so bulletproof is going to pick on repeatedly to the point where he had to be relegated. As much as it was like kind of maybe throwing a wrinkle with Derrick Jones going into the starting unit, I think it was more about kind of diminishing Dunn's role because he was just getting the Russell Westbrook just left on an island treatment there, and he's. He's just been so awesome. Even when he got into this game, he was basically a piranha on Nikola Jokic, basically biting at his kneecaps, trying to defend him. It's just the offense is just not there. And just to have that sore spot just feels like a team at this level, like, even if they got into the second round against the Thunder, where it's going to keep, like, sweeping the leg over and over again repeatedly, and they need to really shore that up because Quiet is going to get older, Harden's going to get older. They need that athletic pop from the ancillary guys to matter more, and they just consistently are relying on guys that, like, will come in and out of the rotation.
- [30:33]
Rob Mahoney
I thought those guys, too, in this game, like, some with Norm, some with Dunn, some with Zoo. Honestly, like, felt like they were nervous trying to finish around the basket sometimes. Like, they felt the weight of this game to the point they were. They were missing shots that they kind of have to make. Like, if Kristan isn't going to make threes, you can see him trying to create alternatives, right? Like trying to cut, trying to attack, trying to make himself useful offensively. If you're doing that and you can't finish, you're just out of the game. Like, you just don't have a place on the floor anymore. And so it's. It's pretty dangerous territory. I agree with a lot of their role players and that that was kind of something we were flagging all along with. This team is like, is Derrick Jones going to be able to hit enough shots? Is Chris Dunn going to be able to hit enough shots? And ultimately, the Clipper offense down the stretch of the regular season was so convincing. I think we talked ourselves into the idea that they could paper over some of those limitations, but clearly in this game, they couldn't.
- [31:21]
Big Waz
Yeah. All right, let's. Let's flip.
- [31:23]
Rob Mahoney
Can we give one more bit of kudos to Michael Porter Jr. Who gutted through that shoulder injury to finish out this series? Again, if we're going to talk about the Nuggets synergy among that core five and the fact that they really don't have a lot of other places to go, him giving them as much as he did. And I saw that Bennett Durando of the Denver Post mentioned during the game that Porter hasn't been able to remove his own jersey during this series. His shoulder injury has been so bad. Like, he literally just can't extend his arms that high. For that guy to finish this series as effectively as he did, I think is a tremendous thing.
- [31:54]
Drew
He's hanging tough.
- [31:56]
Big Waz
I got you can go in the anals as well.
- [31:58]
Rob Mahoney
The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are underway, so don't miss your chance to bet on all the clutch shots and legendary performances with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. FanDuel is the best place to find all of your favorite player props. And now you can make a heads up play with player performance trends. That means whether you want to bet on a player to score 30 points or put up a triple double, you can check out the latest stats and see who's hot without leaving the app. Plus, after the game tips off, you can combine live prop bets into a same game parlay for a chance to win big. For this particular day, I think I would pick the warriors, who are actually slight underdogs in their Game seven against the Rockets to take that thing home. It's hard betting against Houston's physicality and their athleticism. They certainly have all the momentum in that series, not to mention home court advantage. But it's Golden State, it's Steph, it's Draymond, it's Jimmy Butler in a Game seven. I'm just going to err on the side of those guys pulling it out. And if you don't already have FanDuel, it's not too late to get in on all the playoff action. You'll get started with $200 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. So just visit FanDuel.com ringernba to join today. Make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 in present in select states or 18 present in D.C. first online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode.
- [33:31]
Justin Varior
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- [34:19]
Rob Mahoney
Before buck naked underwear, going out naked was a negative.
- [34:23]
Big Waz
Grocery shopping in the nude, a big no no.
- [34:28]
Rob Mahoney
Sunday service in the buff, a desk service and naked in the garage. Just odd. Turn naked into a net positive with.
- [34:40]
Big Waz
Buck naked underwear and feel like wearing.
- [34:43]
Rob Mahoney
Nothing at all anywhere.
- [34:46]
Big Waz
Get buck naked at your Duluth trading store. All right, second round Thunder Nugs. You know, the NBA might not get the Warriors Lakers series that they probably wanted just to boost the ratings, but they will get the MVP versus the MVP in this one. I think this is probably the best matchup on the board, especially for all of us who have been in the mud of this regular season and seen these guys kind of go back and forth in the MVP conversation all year. A complete different scenario for the Nuggets going from the methodical ass Clippers team to the just like working off of pixie dust and just like high off of sugar energy of the Thunder, who have so many just wing defenders that they could throw out there. So many options that they can throw out there in addition to all of the big guys that they have there. I will be surprised honestly if the Nugs can stretch this series out considering what just happened. But if they can make it to six or seven, I'll, I'll tip my hat to them just if only because they've just been through a war and this one is not going to be any easier.
- [35:52]
Rob Mahoney
It's going to be tough. I mean, let's be honest about it. I think any, anyone playing the Thunder is going to be tough. So this isn't really a slide on the Nuggets so much as just the reality of playing OKC these days, which is basically the, you know, the piranha effect. You talked about JV with Chris Dunn, except the whole aquarium is full of piranha. So what are you going to do? I think that, that, that ferocity is going to be really tough for them to deal with. And all of this size and all this collective playmaking, like there's so much to admire about the way Denver plays, especially when they're, they're rolling, right? It's just tough to maintain all that stuff against a team with that, that sort of like when they're in your jersey, when they're in every passing lane with they're deflecting so many balls and discouraging so much of the movement you rely on. I don't think it gives a team like the Nuggets a lot of places to go.
- [36:35]
Drew
I think Jokic is going to be happy that he gets to see Hartenstein and Chad and not Zubac anymore.
- [36:41]
Rob Mahoney
That may be.
- [36:42]
Drew
Be will be relieved by the sight of those two dudes.
- [36:47]
Big Waz
Yeah, unfortunately, I don't think Jamal Murray will be happy to see the nine different perimeter offenders that they could throw at him. I just. It seems like a tough one. Is there any, like, question or storyline wise that you think jumps out to you about this series?
- [37:03]
Drew
The same as always, it's the guys that aren't Shay and when they're called upon, can they be relied upon? You know, J Dub and Isaiah Joe and you know, will Caruso make a shot when called upon and Lou Dort, who you know, in the past that's been. What teams have done to him is like, leave him alone. To me, it's just about everybody who isn't Shay. I know Shay's gonna be excellent no matter what. It's about these other dudes. To me, that's, that's gonna be the story of OKC's playoffs. It's like, will these other guys reliably hit open shots in big moments? Um, will Jada be able to provide some level of playmaking and shot creation on his own so that it's not a, you know, basically a Shay, Gilgis and the Pips routine? Right. Um, and so that to me is always going to be the question for the Thunder.
- [37:55]
Rob Mahoney
I think those guys are probably going to deliver. To be honest with you. I have, I have a lot of confidence in it and I think ultimately there's going to be a little bit of pressure off of them because of their defense. Collectively, I think that like, the defining quality of this series, to me, like the thing that Denver has to overcome is the turnover battle. Like, this is Denver's been one of the higher turnover teams throughout this first round so far. OKC forced like, they forced the Grizzlies to turn the ball over on like 20% of their possessions. A ridiculous number that probably will not be that high because the Nuggets are not the Grizzlies. But that fundamental tension, a team that like has to pass to survive against the. The best ball Hawks in the league, I think that's going to swing the series and I don't see it going super well for the Nuggets. To be honest with you, this is.
- [38:39]
Big Waz
Shaping up to be a just like the perfect litmus test for the Thunder, though. And I do think this plays to their advantage to get a team like Denver wounded, but that is going to push them to execute at a high level. I keep saying that Denver, despite being wounded, despite being basically down to five guys, is just so good when they can keep things tight because they tend to build things on the margins and win those battles over and over again. And I do think this is going to force the Thunder to be more pragmatic as opposed to maybe believing more in their principles and being like, able to rely on their swath of guys as opposed to drill down on like this is the set rotation we need because we need to do this specific thing. And so I agree with you. I think the Thunder are going to win. I don't want to say the win in five games because at this point, saying five almost feels like you're discrediting the other team. It's like saying someone, it looks tired. It's just like you just like it's a backhanded compliment or just like a complete backhand, I guess. But that would be my prediction for this series. It can easily go six just because.
- [39:46]
Drew
I think it's going to be a longer series. Man, I don't, I don't think this is going to be some cakewalk for the Thunder. I just don't foresee that for them. Like, it was nice they got to play Memphis and all of that dysfunction, but I think this is going to be a totally different animal for them. Ultimately. You know, they've been the much better team this season. They should win the series. But I don't think they're going to walk, just walk through this thing like that.
- [40:09]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think they're going to walk through it. I mean, if I can kind of bridge these two takes, I think it is going to be a tough series. I think it is going to be hard fought. It's clearly going to be nothing like Memphis. And I still think that ultimately the Nuggets are going to lose in five. Like, I just, it feels like the series does have that kind of momentum. And I granted, I'm a Thunder believer. Maybe we'll get a game or two where just the shooting doesn't hit and their offense goes haywire and can't quite sustain it. We'll see. But between not really having any, anything resembling a good defensive answer for Shea in this matchup and Christian Brown is just going to be run into the Ground by the end of it, I suspect is really the only option that they have between that and overall, like how oppressive their defense is going to be. I think that's going to be enough to take this Nuggets team coming out of a seven game, like trading haymakers with the Clippers for seven games and then having to walk into the series against the Thunder, just not a, not a fair expectation that the Nuggets are going to turn that into a long series, too.
- [41:04]
Big Waz
All right, let's, let's flip to the east now and knock out these other second round previews before we get to game seven between warriors and Rockets. Let's start with Celtics, Knicks, a series that I honestly can't remember. Just like an absolute slobber knocker. Just like a historic Knicks Celtics tilt in the playoffs. And the way that like for instance, the Yankees and the Red Sox go back and forth practically multiple times every decade was. Is this like, are you getting the vibes from, from New York that this is like a big thing now because it hasn't happened before or what's the read?
- [41:38]
Drew
No, it's not a big thing. I think Knicks fans, after, you know, basically having the series of their freaking lives being pushed to the brink by the Detroit Pistons, nobody's idea of a world beater at all. I think there's a bit of humility about what they can possibly achieve against the Boston Celtics anytime Boston's involved in anything. I think the sort of stakes feel heightened for any New York team for sure. But the idea that they're about to be in some war against Boston, a team that's just been so clearly way better than them. I don't, I don't think that's the sense that I've gotten so far from Nick fans. I think there's just a big relief that Jalen Brunson saved their bacon the other night in game six and just happy to be here kind of vibe.
- [42:30]
Rob Mahoney
I don't like this matchup for the Knicks at all. I, I just, I think, I think it's really tough. I, I think it, it puts them in a really difficult spot where New York, as we saw in that series and part of the reason they had such trouble with Detroit, they run probably the most straightforward offense of any of the teams in the playoff field right now. They're going to run that against a defense that can switch like crazy, that can handle all sorts of coverages that can really challenge them. And then as a counterpoint, the Celtics whenever they want, can drag Jalen Brunson or cat into an action and they're going to have those buttons to just kind of repeatedly push on as much as they would like to do it. In particular, I would say Brunson did not really have to work very hard defensively against Detroit. That is about to change. Whether he's involved directly in kind of on ball screening stuff, whether he's dragged through a bunch of off ball screens, whatever it ends up being cutting, slicing, offensive rebounding. Like they're going to push Jalen Brunson in a totally different way and there is nowhere to hide. And I just do not like that for New York because they're so reliant on him having exactly enough energy to hit the game winner to drag them out of a game that they should otherwise lose.
- [43:34]
Big Waz
So The Celtics were 4 no against the Knicks in the regular season. Tatum 34, 7 in 6 in those four games. I think there was hope going into the season that the Knicks had built the starting five almost to contrast the high powered offense of the Celtics. Not necessarily built in their image, but definitely built for the series. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has much hope that they can actually go toe to toe, especially if the Celtics are going to be clicking on all cylinders. We should mention Drew Holliday hasn't played in probably a week and a half before we get game one in the series. Jaylen Brown also ailing. Chris Dobbs his head maybe, maybe his stitches will bust open at a certain point. But like you're really hoping that the Celtics just drop guys over and over again because the Knicks unfortunately go five deep and they can't rely on anybody else on their bench. You look at the just the minutes their starters have played in contrast to any other team that's played in these postseason. It's ridiculous. It's like 200 minutes for every one of their starting five. I just, I want to believe I just. There is no evidence that we've seen that they can do it.
- [44:40]
Rob Mahoney
Well, the closest thing they have to a sixth viable man is Deuce McBride, who hasn't really been able to hit shots at all in these playoffs. The closest they have to a seventh viable man is Mitchell Robinson, who I think did have some very good games. Unfortunately, he's a terrible matchup for the Celtics and it's just going to get caught in that blender in a way where he can't just hang back and protect the rim.
- [45:00]
Drew
And hang back prominently featured in this.
- [45:03]
Rob Mahoney
Of course he will. Like this. This is the Knicks rotation. These are the guys that they have at Their disposal. And so ultimately, you're going to trade off with some of that against, you know, depending on who's healthy for Boston, Guys like Al Horford, guys like Peyton Pritchard, guys like Luke Cornett, who I would say is just kind of like a better, more effective playoff performer than Mitchell Robinson is, on balance, as crazy as that is to say, I just. I. I really just don't like the contours of what this series is going to present for the Knicks. I don't. I don't think they have it in them offensively to overcome Boston.
- [45:33]
Big Waz
Mitchell Robinson wrinkle really didn't come to bear. I think as much as we were told it might. You know, I feel like we got half a season of, like, Mitchell Robinson waiting in the wings. He might be able to solve their defensive issues, and he's, like, playing 10 to 15 minutes a game at this point, and they're pretty, you know, forgettable. So I don't know what else to do with the series. There is that kind of rumor swirling that the Celtics might need to trade one of these guys in the off season. Based of, like, what I've heard on that, it seems like it's coming more from other teams circling like vultures based off of the expectation of the new ownership pushing one of those guys out the window. I mean, it's going to happen at some point anyway. But I think that's one thing maybe to factor in. Maybe there's a case of senioritis with the Celtics. If they see the writings on the wall or there's like a galvanizing effect with the last dance style, where it's like, this is our last run. We might as well make the most of it. But. But it's just another factor to throw in there.
- [46:27]
Drew
It's an interesting dynamic they have because of the sale. And it's like if you just paid billions of dollars for something and now you gotta pay a payroll of $500 million annually, it just doesn't seem like that's something any owner would want to do. But at the same time, like, do you want to be the owner that comes in and is ultimately the one that breaks up a championship core? Like, that's a pressure in and of itself. So it's definitely something to watch. It just seems impossible that they could keep all of these guys in their building at the prices that these guys get paid?
- [47:04]
Rob Mahoney
I agree that it feels like that information is coming from other teams, but it wouldn't be so crazy if it came from within the Celtics of just kind of a conscious reminder of, like, it's not always going to be this way, you know, like this, this roster is not always going to look like this. This is a rare opportunity. Granted title defenses are very difficult. Granted, this is a banged up team that has had to kind of work its way through the back part of the regular season, through this first part of the playoff bracket, and we'll see kind of if they can even be in anything resembling one piece by the time if they can make it out of the East. But this is a chance, like, this is a chance that you can't squander by things that are controllable, right? If Drew Holiday gets hurt, if Jalen Brown gets a, like his injury gets exacerbated, Chris, that's Porzingis goes down with whatever. Those are things that are beyond your control. If you lose this series because you don't dot your I's and cross your T's because you don't take the Knicks seriously because you aren't playing with the requisite effort a la the Clippers, then you have to look around at the reality of the situation, which is one of these teammates on which you dearly rely is probably going to be out of here in a couple months.
- [48:07]
Big Waz
I think the Knicks need a good showing here because to get to the same point as last year and to just get absolutely waxed by the Celtics, it's one thing to like lose a hard fought battle, but you basically sold your fan base at the start of the season that we're going for. We can go toe to toe with the best teams in the east. And to not come close after like kind of limping into the second round after getting pushed by a Pistons team that was frankly like seemed happy just to be there would be a travesty. Because you put so much and invested so much in building this kind of pseudo super team. To lose in four or five would be kind of almost existential. It would really kind of send them into like a place of fatalism where it's like, do we have to do this all over again? We literally just put this awesome team together. Do we have to go out and do something else now? So just something to watch. Seems like there's stakes for the Knicks just to not vomit it up.
- [48:57]
Drew
I mean, they could. They have built in excuses this year, one of this completely brand new team, right? Like they can say that they need to build in more wrinkles and more continuity to the thing that they have. Whereas the Boston team, which is like the exact opposite of that, these People are well oiled machine. These guys have played together for so long in so many big games. I think they got excuses if they want them. But you know, it's going to be interesting to see how OG Anunoby plays, you know, the $45 million man, how Mikhail Bridges plays, the sixth first round pick, man, you know, is going to Carl town. Same thing. Like, like individually these guys have to show. Um, but I think if guys play reasonably within what we know them to be capable of and ultimately lose to a team that we all know is better than them by a lot, I don't think they should be, you know, too disgraced by that.
- [49:56]
Rob Mahoney
But there should and will. You know, like I, I think that's you're right that they have those excuses that they want them. I kind of wonder if maybe they dodged the big existential stuff by getting out of that series with the Pistons in the way that they did. And even if it had gone to seven, that might have been like a different conversation. We'll have to see how ugly this gets. I think you're right, Justin, that the complexion of how they lose, if they lose, will tell us a lot about the Knicks off season. And this is a team that even though they made big changes, like could easily make more, could easily trade critical parts of this team, could easily make a coaching change. I, I kind of feel like this is a Celtics in five sort of series. Not ruling out the possibility that it could go a little bit longer, but I would be very surprised if the Knicks.
- [50:38]
Big Waz
Yeah, I agree. Let's go to the other series then. Cavs, Pacers. I would say this is the big litmus test for Rob's Pacers. I think they got out of the state title and now they're going into nationals.
- [50:52]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [50:52]
Big Waz
Yeah, you proved it that you are a feisty team. Now you're going to play an absolute buzz saw potentially in the Cavs, who waxed the heat by 90. It seemed like in most of those games, especially the last two. Garland. We'll see. He didn't practice on Saturday, has a toe issue. I would assume he's going to go on on Sunday for game one. He's considered day to day, but I do think that this is the type of team in the Pacers that could give them guff. Rob, what do you have as maybe like a thing that you're looking forward to in this series?
- [51:25]
Rob Mahoney
So I think we talk a lot with the Cavs about their spacing and their three point shooting and that the ball movement that's oriented around those things, but really, to me, with them, like, their interior offense is kind of always the swing piece. And when they're getting Mobley and Allen easy baskets, cutting and slicing to the rim, that's when they feel unbeatable. If they're just hitting a lot of threes, that's something that a lot of good defenses can weather and good, good playoff teams can weather. And so to me, if those two guys are doing damage inside and as a counterpoint, if Miles Turner and Pascal Siakam in particular can actually protect the rim and hold down their spots and overall flatten out Cleveland's offense, that feels like Indiana's path to being really competitive and potentially winning this series. But you have to turn Cleveland into a jump shooting first and kind of only team. And if you can cut off all the other, cut off their water in other ways, I think that's where you kind of even the score.
- [52:17]
Drew
Yeah, for me, it's Garland. I think there's a lot of people that thought he could have been an all star starter, that he might have had a better, you know, start to the season than even Jalen Brunson did. Right. And he just has to severely outplay Nemhardt straight up. We kind of know what Donovan Mitchell's gonna do. I think we have a pretty decent idea about what Halliburton's gonna do out there. To me, Garland has to dominate his matchup. And, you know, as Rob mentioned, it's about getting downhill, you know, forcing these guys to send help and spray it out to your myriad of shooters. And that's what I'll be watching, how Garland handles himself in this, you know, elevated level of competition because Miami, you know, they were the 10th seed, and so that's not anybody's idea of some playoff challenge. And, and, and Garland I'll definitely be. Be having my eyes on.
- [53:09]
Rob Mahoney
I kind of wonder how Indy matches up with him. Like, do you. Because you could put Halliburton on Garland and kind of hope and, like, hope and pray to kind of hang in that matchup. You could put him on Stre potentially, and then maybe have niece Smith, guard Donovan Mitchell and Nemhard on Garland, depending on how you prioritize those threads. It's just hard to look at Donovan Mitchell and not say we should put our best defender, Andrew Nembart on that guy from minute one. But, like, they do have some cards to play. Like, these aren't stoppers for the Pacers per se, but they know how to play a system. They know how to take away the Three point line. Like they know how to get back in transition. Like I think they're going to take away some of Cleveland's easiest stuff.
- [53:43]
Big Waz
Yeah, that's what I have down here is I do think this is going to be a big nem heart series in part because if you guard Halliburton with Streuss, which is where I assume they're going to start with, definitely could be, then I think you're letting Garland and Mitchell like one of those member is going to have to go on one of those guys. And so I just think like on both sides he's going to have an advantage going against the biggest weakness of the Cavs, which is like exposing their defensive backcourt. And then on the other side, I do think he has a potential to maybe go mano mano with Mitchell and then if Garland is ailing, that makes him just like a little bit easier to guard here. Pacers very good at disallowing threes. Cavs obviously are going to push the volume. I think that's where I would worry at this point. It seems like a lot of the Pacers defensive success comes with just denying and I don't think that's going to be possible against a team with the Cavs that is shooting more in just in the first round than any other team going right now. And so I don't know, it just seems like mathematically the Cavs just have a lot of advantages. And I also think this is a big stage for Evan Mobley because if he is going to play like he did in the regular season, season offensively, I think that's someone that like, I don't know what answer the Pacers have in order to stop him.
- [55:01]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean there's no like one on one guy that you would put on him in those situations. And I say that with great respect for like the work Miles Turner did trying to guard Giannis in the first round. The defense that Pascal Siakam plays regularly but Evan Mobley as a full court threat is. Is a pretty unique challenge. Obviously Giannis is too. I just think he has the length to kind of get past Siakam in some cases and I think ultimately he can kind of worm his way by Turner in a way that definitely concerns me from. From a Pacers perspective.
- [55:29]
Big Waz
Yeah. All right. Game seven. We don't know who the Wolves are going to face. We got Rockets, we got warriors. Was. I'm worried about the Warriors. Down three one. You could hear the whispers that karma has finally caught up to them.
- [55:44]
Drew
How are you Feeling I ultimately think they kind of screwed around for most of that Game six, and then in the fourth quarter they went completely cold. And because of that screwing around, they, you know, they kind of got caught out there. Um, but I still think this Rockets team is imminently guardable. And the warriors have Jimmy and Steph Curry. Like, I think they're going to be able to manage to get enough offense, squeeze enough offense out of that, you know, that stone, and they're going to guard the hell out of these guys. They got to figure out a way to, you know, squeeze some rebounds at a certain. But they just have to. But I think they're gonna win. I think they're gonna. I think it's going to be one of those games in the 90s, and they're gonna have Steph Curry and they're gonna have Jimmy Butler and they're gonna ultimately prevail.
- [56:40]
Rob Mahoney
I can't wait to see it. I have no idea what to expect. This has been a clusterfuck of a series basically all the way through. Ultimately, like, so, so wise, you said that, you know, the warriors kind of messed around and went cold in the fourth. I think that's true. But they also got put in the freezer in the fourth. And Houston's defense is a not insignificant part of why they're going cold. Granted, there are some shooters who are just not hitting shots, so it depends on whether you. Do you believe with the series on the line that Buddy Heald is going to deliver, that Brandon Pajemski is going to deliver, that Quentin Post is going to deliver, that these guys are going to step in. Moses Moody, are these guys going to step in and hit the shots of their lives? Basically, I think it's very possible that they do. Or it's also possible that Steph just hit so many that no one else really has to do that kind of heavy lifting. But ultimately, like Golden State has to figure out a way to bust Houston Zone. Like, they cannot let the Rockets get away with it to the extent that they did because the Zone is really the reason that jumbo lineup can stay on the floor. It's the reason why Steven Adams can be a game changing force. It's the reason why Draymond Green is up there today talking about how Stephen Adams needs to get called for three second violations. Like they're trying to. They're trying to lobby to get this man off the floor because they don't know what to do with him. And they don't know what to do with him because they can't shoot their way out of the zone right now.
- [57:56]
Big Waz
Listen, I know it's a completely different team and it's a completely different era, but seeing a big lineup of Stephen Adams and Alperin Shen Goon just like, have their way against the small ball warriors is startling. Like, how many, like, bigs of Adam's, vintage, at least this version, did the classic warriors just basically relegate to, like, nothing. That was where they made their hay. Like, they would constantly make those guys look silly. All the, all the Grizzlies teams that they basically set into retirement. And then you had last time in the fourth quarter, Adams just basically pummeling to the point where they just kind of fell over. Like in late when they were hacking Adams and he missed a free throw and then Shen Goon got the offensive rebound. I was like, what the fuck is going on here? It's just. There's just like something. There's a demoralizing effect there, and I think you guys hit it. It's just like if they don't have the offense to back it up in order to lean on that advantage that they have with their extra shooters on the floor, I just, I don't know. I don't know where it's going to come from. It's to the point where I've seen multiple warriors people being like, I wish we had Klay Thompson in this series because he would come up with big shots after last year. Basically running him out of town because he couldn't barely move anymore. It's, it's like, it's, it's tough.
- [59:13]
Rob Mahoney
So Stephen Adams had 17 points in that game. When was the last time you think Stephen Adams had 17 points or more in an NBA game?
- [59:22]
Drew
2016.
- [59:23]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, that's rude.
- [59:25]
Big Waz
20, 20, 23. Well, when was he. He missed one season with the Grizzlies.
- [59:32]
Rob Mahoney
So he missed all of last season. Okay, all of the 2023, 24 season. Yeah. So his last game with so many points was March 2022. Like, this is not, it's not Franklin. It's not who he's ever been. He doesn't really want to score, but if you, if you gift wrap it for him, he will hit putbacks all day. If you foul him and send him to the free throw line, he's going to knock down at least a requisite amount of them or certainly did in that game. I, I just don't think anyone on Golden State side was fully prepared for the impact he was going to have on this series. And they assumed, as you said, Justin, that they were going to be able to play him off the floor when it mattered. Game six, that was absolutely not the case. And maybe it is only a couple of threes or a couple of clever back cuts or a well played offense against the Zone away from doing that, but so far, he's had a huge impact on the series.
- [60:19]
Big Waz
Do you think him hugging guys just threw the warriors completely off kilter?
- [60:24]
Rob Mahoney
He's so sweet and also so physical. What are you supposed to do with a guy like that?
- [60:29]
Big Waz
There is part of this where it does feel like a lot of the warrior surge came off of the piss and vinegar of trying to prove people wrong, which, frankly, was part of their narrative. And when they were rising to begin with, it just felt like Jimmy wanting to get revenge on the Heat, show everyone what he was about, but also Stefan Draymond being like, we're still here. This is our final run. They've been pretty public about that. Seemed like that that was so much about what propelled them. And it feels like that now that they're getting, like, just outbeat physically, just feels like they're a little limp at this point. And so, like, maybe Steph has the juice in Game 7, he typically does, but it's. It's kind of depressing watching them just, like, kind of get their ass beat by the young upstars right now.
- [61:10]
Drew
I mean, they've won three games in this series, right? Like, they're not down.
- [61:16]
Big Waz
Completely different.
- [61:17]
Rob Mahoney
The last two did feel different.
- [61:19]
Drew
I. I hear that, but, like, they're not down.03 in this series. They haven't just been getting their asses kicked up and down the court for six games here. Like, it's. The Houston Rockets is nobody's idea of, like, oh, this team could completely come out and just clobber these dudes. I just have a hard time believing that they got a competitive bunch of people on Golden State. Like, the last two games, remember, they're not the ones facing elimination. They're playing a team that's playing for its playoff lives. Like, I think that counts for something, right? And so I think we will get a different version of how the Dubs come out against this team tomorrow. And I think ultimately they're going to win. I really do.
- [61:59]
Rob Mahoney
I. I kind of lean that way, but. But I also have the flash of, like, even in this game six, you're getting a combined, what, like, 56 points for or. Yeah, 56 points from Jimmy and Stephen, and that's, like, not enough to win against the Rockets, right? Like that. Like, that is you're. Where you're getting held back is offensively you can't produce enough against this team. Maybe they weren't taking it seriously enough. It sure seemed that way at times in the first half in particular. But on the other side, like, Fred Van Vliet has sort of unlocked something in this series as well. Like he. Why try to beat Steph when you can just be. Steph ultimately is kind of the Fred Van Fleet model here. And so like between him and Steven Adams having this sort of impact, Ahmed Thompson getting better and better. Game over. Game has been a huge deal ultimately. Even imo Doka making some tough calls and saying like, you know what, Dylan Brooks, you're just kind of like not a part of this particular run. And him having the cachet and the capital to do that, I think is really important because this Game seven is going to take some tough calls. I think it's going to be a really physical battle. It's really hard not to bet on the collective guile of Golden State, and so I think I would lean that way, but I don't feel confident in it at all.
- [63:06]
Big Waz
Hopefully it's more interesting than this Game seven that we just got, but we shall see on Sunday. Let's wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. We'll be back on Wednesday night. We'll talk to you then.