The De’Aaron Fox Derby, Jimmy Butler’s Best Options, and More Pressing Trade Deadline Questions | Group Chat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The De’Aaron Fox Derby, Jimmy Butler’s Best Options, and More Pressing Trade Deadline Questions | Group Chat

Introduction

In the January 30, 2025 episode of The Ringer NBA Show, titled "The De’Aaron Fox Derby, Jimmy Butler’s Best Options, and More Pressing Trade Deadline Questions", the Group Chat segment features hosts Justin Ferrier, Rob Mahoney, and Big Waz engaging in an in-depth discussion about the current NBA trade landscape. The conversation delves into potential trades, player movements, and strategic decisions teams may face as the trade deadline approaches.

1. The De’Aaron Fox Trade Scenario

The episode opens with an analysis of De’Aaron Fox's potential trade, focusing on his fit within various team dynamics and the implications for both the Sacramento Kings and interested suitors.

• Potential Trade Partners: The hosts discuss teams like the Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Lakers, and Orlando Magic as possible destinations for Fox.

  • Big Waz (05:07) emphasizes the Rockets’ need for a bold move:
    “I think the Rockets should be ultra aggressive in the moment and don’t be satisfied with what you’ve accomplished already.”

  • Rob Mahoney (07:26) highlights the synergy between Fox and Victor Wembanyama:
    “There are teams like the Rockets that have proven Patrick for Fox that he can play off as a third star alongside Wemby.”

• Trade Dynamics: The conversation touches on the complexities of salary cap considerations and team strategies.

  • Rob Mahoney (08:57) notes the appeal of pairing Fox with Wembanyama:
    “I think Wembanyama plus Fox would be an incredibly dynamic combination.”

  • Justin Ferrier (10:51) discusses the strategic timing for the Rockets:
    “There’s a four-game win streak, and Amend Thompson is improving—if they make a move now, they could significantly upgrade their point guard position.”

2. Sacramento Kings’ Position and Trade Implications

The hosts analyze the Sacramento Kings' stance in the trade market, considering their current roster and future prospects.

• Big Waz (12:03) comments on the Kings' potential to secure Fox:
  “If you have Victor Wembanyama, that's what you're betting on—Fox is not going to be the last guy who wants to do this.”

• Rob Mahoney (21:13) discusses the difficulty of balancing current performance with long-term strategy:
  “It's a tricky situation to navigate, but there's so much here. I would just love to see it happen for basketball reasons.”

3. Jimmy Butler’s Best Options and Potential Destinations

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Jimmy Butler's future, exploring where he might land if he does not re-sign with the Miami Heat.

• Potential Teams: The conversation explores several teams that could vie for Butler, including the Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors, and Phoenix Suns.

  • Big Waz (32:23) suggests the Milwaukee Bucks as a prime candidate:
    “The Bucks have been thinking about possibly making the Jimmy thing happen, and that would be incredible for them.”

  • Rob Mahoney (38:51) considers the Warriors as a possible destination for Butler:
    “The Warriors should be in the Jimmy Butler conversation. They have the talent and should have the confidence to convince him to join.”

• Trade Complications: The hosts discuss contract constraints and the complexity of orchestrating potential trades involving Butler.

  • Rob Mahoney (44:46) highlights the challenges with Bradley Beal’s no-trade clause:
    “Bradley Beal has an unusual amount of power with his no-trade clause, making it difficult to pair him with Butler.”

  • Justin Ferrier (44:13) speculates on the Suns' strategies post-trade deadline:
    “I think we'll see exactly the same lineup, and they're going to chop their one traded voluntarily for Bradley Beal on a $50 million a year contract.”

4. Other Pressing Trade Deadline Questions

Beyond Fox and Butler, the hosts touch upon additional trade considerations and potential moves involving other players and teams.

• Zach Lavine’s Trade Prospects: The discussion shifts to whether teams should prioritize acquiring Zach Lavine, comparing his impact to Butler’s.

  • Justin Ferrier (34:03) argues for Lavine's value:
    “Why not just go all the way and make a play for Lavine? It would be a game changer.”

  • Rob Mahoney (35:19) counters by emphasizing Butler’s championship value:
    “Jimmy Butler balls out in the playoffs every single time. Lavine is a cleaner fit, but Butler represents something more attuned to serious competitive basketball.”

• Impact on Team Dynamics: The potential integration of new star players and how they would mesh with current team rosters is examined.

  • Big Waz (15:03) praises Amend Thompson’s potential synergy with Fox:
    “This kid is going to find a way to make himself useful and make the team much better than it ordinarily would be.”

• Unexpected Trade Moves: The hosts speculate on surprising or unexpected trades that could reshape team landscapes.

  • Big Waz (49:41) predicts the Cleveland Cavaliers might make an unforeseen bold move:
    “The Cavs could be the team that blindsides everybody and makes a really bold move for their postseason future.”

  • Rob Mahoney (51:27) suggests the Oklahoma City Thunder as a wildcard:
    “The Thunder are the answer to various last questions—they could make a swing for somebody completely unexpected.”

5. Strategic Implications for Teams

The episode concludes with a strategic outlook on how teams might navigate the trade deadline to optimize their rosters for immediate and future success.

• Rob Mahoney (56:57) emphasizes the importance of championship potential over conservative strategies:
  “Because you could win the championship. That's it.”

• Big Waz (57:06) criticizes teams like the Thunder for their conservative approach:
  “My job is safe outside of some embarrassing first-round exit. Nobody's going to complain about the season we had.”

• Justin Ferrier (58:23) underscores the necessity of bold moves for sustained success:
  “Talent diminishes what this guy can contribute, you know what I mean? I think he's going to add on top of whatever you have going on. That's why I think they should go for it.”

Conclusion

The Group Chat segment provides a comprehensive analysis of the NBA trade deadline's potential impacts, focusing on De’Aaron Fox and Jimmy Butler's possible moves. The hosts offer diverse perspectives on team strategies, player fit, and the complexities of orchestrating significant trades in a highly competitive league. Their insights cater to fans seeking a deeper understanding of the evolving NBA landscape as teams maneuver for championship contention.

Notable Quotes

• Big Waz (05:07):
  “That's really what happened for me.”

• Rob Mahoney (08:57):
  “Wemby and Fox together would be an incredibly dynamic combination.”

• Justin Ferrier (10:51):
  “If they just want to hit the pause button on everything, figure out what they have this season, play a playoff series, go for it.”

• Big Waz (28:16):
  “The Thunder are going to lose way sooner than people like Rob think they are.”

• Rob Mahoney (35:19):
  “Jimmy Butler balls out in the playoffs every single time, basically.”

Transcript

[Logan Murdoch]

What's poppin, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real Ones on the Ringer NBA show. And I wanted to invite you to pull up and kick it with Raja Bell, Howard Beck and myself during All Star Weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the historic Punchline Comedy Club in San francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2pm pregaming all the All Star festivities. And you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com events. That's ringer.com events. Hope to see you there.

[Justin Ferrier]

This episode is brought to you by GNC at gnc. Nutrition isn't just a department. It's the whole store. Nutrition for bigger gains. Sculpting that revenge body and to have you feeling like you're ready to go. GNC spent 90 years perfecting nutrition and protein that literally tastes like cake. So you can look like cake. You got goals. GNC has results. Visit your local GNC store or shop [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Smucker's Uncrustables. There's nothing like a snack that comes in clutch. So who's the real mvp? Uncrustables. The best part of the sandwich. It's a round crimped sandwich made with soft, pillowy bread filled with peanut butter and jelly. It. It goes straight from the freezer to your lunchbox, making it easier to pack lunch and sprint out the door. Now that's a morning win. You'll find Smucker's Uncrustables in the freezer aisle. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Ferrier. And joining me, Rob Mahoney. Big Waz. Gentlemen, the votes are in. Turns out it wasn't a mustache. I've heard from many people in person online. Not a mustache.

[Rob Mahoney]

We tried to tell you.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

What are you doing?

[Big Waz]

How does he have this full beard thing going on the side and say there's a mustache thing growing there?

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, here's the thing. I want to do both. I just want the mustache to be more prominent, almost like a cat, you know, Like a cat. Yeah. You know how the cat has like this fur is a little bit more prominent above the mouth region? Yeah.

[Big Waz]

So you have a podcast to shave your beard to on the one or a half and then just leave the stash. So you will still have that effect. But you know, the stash will be getting the love that it deserves.

[Justin Ferrier]

You guys are getting facial hair trims at the barber. I've never done that before.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Done.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

You have to be black. You have to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you. I mean, I'll take your word for it. I just didn't know this was a thing. I mean, obviously know the service is available if you have a beer.

[Big Waz]

You think I could do this on my own?

[Rob Mahoney]

With all due respect, wise, yes, I do. I'm not trying to take business away from your barber.

[Big Waz]

The sharpness is crazy. The first day, the day one of this stash, you wouldn't believe how crispy it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, okay, I could.

[Justin Ferrier]

I know how crispy it gets. How's everybody else doing? Any news? Any events in your family's lives that you want to announce? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely nothing that's on the level of your stash. I think that is clearly the headlining news of the day. I look forward to see its continued development, Justin, now that it's officially become a part of our firmament here as a show.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, we'll get a little tracker going, maybe as a social graphic, and it'll just be the guy developing from monkey to man, just be me with the full beard to a slightly different version of it. So that'll be fun for everyone. Okay, guys. Excited for the trade deadline? Week away?

[Big Waz]

I am. It feels like things are actually going to happen, which is nice. I feel like last year, we were so bummed out by the lack of movement during last year's trade deadline. It felt like such a comedown and a letdown. I think this year is going to be different. I think a lot of teams, you know, sort of jumbled in that middle that aren't Boston, Cleveland, okc, etc, want to make a step, you know, in the direction of, you know, title contention. And so I think there's going to be moves that happen, so that's really exciting. And, you know, I used to be a bit of a transaction snob. I'd be like, why are all these normies so excited about moves happening? They need to be more excited about Kyrie's reverse layups. I've changed my tune on that. I get excited for new things, new settings, new environments, new things to learn about teams. So I'm looking forward to the deadline.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think brought about this change in your life? Was. Was this just, like, you hit a certain age and all of a sudden you're looking out the window and enjoying the beauties of the natural? You've come to enjoy and appreciate your circumstances and environment a little bit more. Is that what's going on?

[Big Waz]

Well, that. I know you guys, the people on YouTube can see the grays in my beard? I'm. I'm definitely becoming wiser with the day, but mainly it's that we went to two pods a week. So that's double the content.

[Rob Mahoney]

For content purposes, yes.

[Big Waz]

That's really what happened for me.

[Rob Mahoney]

The beast must be fed and very thankful to Dear and Fox to clutch to the Sacramento Kings for feeding the beast in such a significant way that we now have all of these new. Like, maybe not new, but what's old is new again, in terms of the Dear and Fox Trade rumors.

[Big Waz]

Next time I see Rich Paul at the Bird Streets, I'm gonna thank him.

[Justin Ferrier]

The Bird Streets?

[Big Waz]

Yeah, it's a spot.

[Justin Ferrier]

Okay.

[Big Waz]

Spot. It's members only.

[Justin Ferrier]

Rob, you know about that spot?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know about it, but I'm not surprised that Woz does.

[Big Waz]

I'll get you guys in next time you're in la.

[Rob Mahoney]

What's the vibe over there?

[Big Waz]

I once walked in there and freaking, first of all, Leonardo DiCaprio was there, which I was just like. I was losing my mind. Whatever. But you're not allowed to do that in there. You know, la, you gotta play it cool. Tristan Thompson walks in and Leo makes a beeline for this dude. And they are talking as if they are old friends, as if they've known each other their whole lives. I was like, how is Tristan Thompson this freaking important? But, yeah, that's the type of spot the Bird Streets is.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are levels to fame, Justin, and there's the Leo level, and there's clearly the Tristan Thompson level, which is ascendant, inexplicable, beyond us on many. In many ways.

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, there are levels to trade deadline targets as well, unfortunately. I'm surprised that you guys are so. So worked into a froth here over the trade deadline. I have a hard time basically, after the top two to three guys finding anything that's really percolating here. But as Rob was mentioning, we did get the Deer in Fox News yesterday. He's the big guy on the board right now. It's kind of funny, Rob, because at first, I think a lot of people just were behind Fox because it's like, oh, where? Where the Kings go? And they're not playing well. They then proceeded to rip off what was like, what, a 10 and 2 run? They're now 11 and 4 with Doug Christie, and he's kind of like, yeah, I mean, I meant next year. I meant next year. We can't compete, but we're still in the same place. I think we ultimately assumed we'd get to what are you thinking about this? Are there any teams on the board? Because it sounds like Fox has a preference for San Antonio. Are there any teams on the board that you think make a better fit for that or this is like San Antonio's derby to lose.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they're rodeo to loose.

[Big Waz]

Horse race.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a horse race. Yeah. I mean, there's not exactly as much of a thing in Texas, but, you know, there's partaking of horse racing of all kinds. I think this is a case where the simplest answer on the board and the most straightforward answer on the board might be the best one. I think Wemby and Fox together would be an incredibly dynamic combination. I think I'm really eager personally for Victor Wembanyama to play with a point guard who is actually a threat on the drive in a way that Chris Paul just at this stage of his career is not. That's not the way he navigates the game. Brings a lot to the table otherwise, but isn't doing what De'Aaron Fox does. And, and so there is. There are a lot of questions to answer if you're the spurs, like, is this the big swing you want to take? Do you believe in the internal development of the players? You wouldn't have to give up in a Dear and Fox deal to the point that they could become a third star down the line along or at least a really high level player down the line alongside Wimy and Fox, if that's kind of the core you want to commit to. And ultimately I'm looking at this situation with great intrigue as one of the first stars to come out outright in the market and say, that guy, Victor Wembanyama, that's the guy I want to play with. And that's not something we see for a lot of international players. It's happened a couple different times with Luca as guys have come available, but other than that does not happen very often. And it's. It's fascinating that it's come together so quickly for Wemby, if also understandable why it's come together so quickly.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. Which is why I think the Rockets need to be bold here. Um, I think the spurs are going to be patient. They're not gonna like get bullied into some, you know, Kevin Durant type of deal. Mortgage the future to get Fox. They're not doing that. That's not been their history, obviously. And they probably feel like they're just not in a position to have to be desperate. And so I think a team like Houston should be ultra aggressive. In the moment and don't be satisfied with what you've accomplished already. I get it. The season is going way better than even the most optimistic Houston people could have predicted beforehand. Me and Rob being two of the most optimistic. I will say very.

[Rob Mahoney]

As we know.

[Big Waz]

No, but like, just because things are going great right now doesn't mean you can't be better immediately by upgrading your point guard position to dearen Fox and be bold enough to think that you could keep them, go in, swoop him from the spurs on some if you snooze, you lose type of situation, get the guy's bird rights. So now you can pay him even more than the spurs, even if they decide, hey, we're going to clear the cap space for this guy. So now you're putting yourself in a position where you can offer him more while having him in a winning environment in a great city. He knows the area well. Um, I just think the Rockets should be trying to be bold, but it's not typically what we see teams do in their position. Teams that are overachieving, you know, number two in the west, as they are right now, don't swing for a huge trade that completely changes the dynamic of the team. That's just like most management structures are too conservative to go that route. But I think the Rockets should seriously consider bringing this guy in because he would be an upgrade to everything they're doing on the ball right now.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, number two in the west and not fading. They're currently riding a four game win streak. Guys are going down and Amend Thompson just keeps getting better practically every game. At first it was, well, will he stick in the starting lineup? And now it's like, should we orient our entire future around what this guy could be? 33 points in that win over the Celtics, including the game winner. I'm at the point where if they just want to hit the pause button on everything, figure out what they have this season, play a playoff series, go for it. Like, I would wait, even if it is a player better than Fox, because I don't know what I have with most of these guys and one of them could potentially be a top 10 player in this league. And so for that reason, I would be surprised if they got into the mix. Although they do have to consolidate at some point. We'll see in the off season. The spurs, though, Rob, I think, are the most interesting team on the board here for the reason that you outlined. When was the last time you saw a guy almost jump the line and say, hey, I want to actually be this guy's running me. I can't think of a single time that's happened. Even with an American born players. It almost seems like he wants to be the first guy to talk to the hot girl at the dance while everyone else is like smart and like, oh God, I, I wish I had thought about that first. My thing with the spurs though, did you want to jump in there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was going to ask if he was the Tristan Thompson in this, in this scenario, you know, Darren Fox has walked into the Bird room and it's like, you know what? That's, that's my guy. That's the guy I got to make up. Eli Bird Streets. Sorry, Bird Streets. I apologize to Mr. Bird Street.

[Justin Ferrier]

It's not a, it's not a room. I made the impassion case a couple of weeks ago that the spurs shouldn't do anything right and I still kind of believe that you want to work through all the dimensions of Victor Webanyama's development. On the other hand, I was looking through some of their draft picks recently and a lot of them are kind of in that middle tier zone where it's like, what are the ones that are actually going to get us at the top of the draft, which is the ones that we want to preserve in order to find the number two for Wemby. And it's really the Atlanta picks the next three years. They're both, they're all unprotected ones. A swap. And I'm looking at the Hawks. Even with Jalen Johnson out for this season, are they ever going to get to the point where they're like top five in the draft bad? I don't know. And so at this point I'm like, I think Fox might be the best player we can get with all this asset clump and so why not do it sooner rather than later?

[Rob Mahoney]

They also are playing a different game than the Rockets are in terms of Deer and Fox's level of interest or at least projected level of interest so far. Right there is the Deer and Fox that is under contract for 18 months. And so far the, the supposition is that he is not eager to just re sign with anybody and you would really have to prove something to him to get him to stay. There wouldn't be a lot of security in that arrangement unless it's the spurs. And there seems to be an openness about a potential negotiation there for an extension and a timeline that makes sense in terms of getting him there as soon as possible so he can be eligible for that extension sooner. All that stuff makes all the sense in the world. And, and while we are amending our previous takes, Justin, as you did about the spurs and whether they should stand pat was I was on the same page as you that I thought the Rockets should trade specifically for Fox. The last time we were talking about his trade rumors as they were coming up before the Kings reversed course on their season and managed to start bailing things out. And I will say the amendment Thompson thing has swayed me to give him space in the way that JV outlined. Like, I think the Rockets are good enough.

[Big Waz]

Guy is one game winner. You want to change the course of the franchise.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, you know that my relationship with Amend Thompson goes back much further than that, but I think his play over the last month or so and specifically his ability to fill a void in the team that they have sorely needed, I'm not in a rush to fill that space. And to say, okay, here's a, here's a star level point guard who's all of a sudden going to start doing a lot more creation, a lot more stuff. Not because Amen Thompson and Dear and Fox couldn't play together. I think obviously they could. Maybe it'd be a little more awkward in some ways, but they would figure it out. That's, that's not a core I'm worried about, but I just want to see what Amend Thompson can be. I don't know what position he plays, I don't know what his best use is in the offense and I, I want to if they if be this good and still have room for him to do that and Jalen Green to keep getting better and Alpern Shankoon to keep flexing his game and all of these young prospects to find their way. I'm a little resistant to tinker with that too much.

[Big Waz]

So I'm going to see your Amend Thompson praise him and raise it. I actually think he's the kind of player where if you did make him shoulder that bird and he could do it, but you put this guy in a winning environment, he's going to find a way to make your team better no matter what the sort of context is. And you know, if you put a more ball dominant point guard there, yes, fine, it's going to take the ball out of his hands, but this kid is going to find a way to make himself useful and make the team much better than it ordinarily would be. And so that's why like the idea that we shouldn't want to upgrade our talent because we want to see Amend Thompson flourish. I don't think talent diminishes what this guy can contribute, you know what I mean? Like, I think he's going to add on top of whatever you have going on. That's why I think, you know, they should go for it. And I think our experience in Vegas kind of just convinced me of that. And I get it, it was only one game, but like, his understanding and feel is at just the highest level. And so how do I make myself the best possible running mate with Fred Van Vliete? Okay, I'll figure that out. With Dillon Brooks, I'll figure that out. I think he could figure it out with De'Aaron Fox, too.

[Rob Mahoney]

Definitely.

[Justin Ferrier]

The timing of this trade request or how public it's gotten is interesting. And I also think the language is also something to take note of, because this is the Kings being open to the idea of doing that. And so I think if the spurs are the front runner, you would presume that they think that they might have time to figure this out. Maybe they could do both of the things that I'm outlining. Wait until the off season, give Wemby a run to maybe have a play in game or two under his belt at. At best, probably, and then we'll. We'll figure this out in the off season. Fox wants to come here, we have time. But typically what happens is the team saying, like, well, if he's going to go anyway, let's try to get bidders to jump the line perhaps on the spurs, in order to get in the mix now. And so if it's not, I don't think it's the Rockets who also have time just because they're on their time, own time. I'm depending on who they really want to prioritize on that roster. Although I think the number crunch starts this offseason. But they'll figure it out, right? They. They have stuff. They're not worried, I think. I think they're a team to be worried about. If you're the spurs in like a Paul George goes to OKC as opposed to la, just waiting on him to come in free agency that summer sort of deal, I think it's Miami. I think Miami just has the interests. Clearly. They're always big star hunting. They want to prove a point at this point. I'm sure Pat Riley really wants to stick it to Jimmy. He makes sense there for a lot of reasons, but also because Bam and Fox played together in Kentucky. I think my question, Rob, is if you have Hero who's playing very, very good this year. Is there too much of an overlap there? Do you think those two work together? And I think beyond that, would you even get rid of Hero in order to bring in Fox?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, ideally you wouldn't have to because I do think they can work together. I think Hero can be a really dynamic player on and off the ball. I think dear. And Fox has proven to be that, too. And I think part of the reason we're talking about teams like the Rockets and like the Heat is they have hub centers that we already have a proof of concept for for Fox that he can play off as a bonus. And so if you wanted to run action through Bam, out of Bio, through Alper and Shangoon, he knows how to do that at a really, really high level. I think this is a natural place to sort of blend our first question about De'Aaron Fox with the second question you had outlined for us, Justin, about if Jimmy Butler doesn't go to Phoenix, where is he going to go? Why are these two trade conversations about Jimmy Butler and De'Aaron Fox mutually exclusive? Why couldn't they be the same conversation? Why couldn't a team like Sacramento that is desperate not only to maintain its leverage in the De'Aaron Fox sweepstakes, as you said, but also desperate to make the playoffs and be good immediately, why couldn't they be a Jimmy Butler destination? And. And there's just enough in there for it to work like a Fox. And I think Trey Lyles would probably be the natural contract that would have to be included to make the. The math work. I don't suspect that Jimmy Butler wants to be a Sacramento King, and so.

[Justin Ferrier]

He'S balking at Memphis, but he's down to go to Couch.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not saying. I'm not saying he's down, but I think if. If the Kings, he wants Lady Bird.

[Big Waz]

Like the rest of us, he was like, sac, you know, fucking masterpiece.

[Rob Mahoney]

We all. We all know it. Jimmy Butler knows it.

[Justin Ferrier]

It is the Shalom Maison. So he's trying to ride the wave.

[Rob Mahoney]

I ju. I just think it's one of these things where if the Kings are feeling a sense of urgency that say, the spurs are not to make a deal like this happen sooner than later. You start looking around the room. The suitors are maybe the Rockets, maybe the Lakers. We'll see if I think the. He would have obvious interest given what the Jimmy Butler trade market has been like. And maybe there's a way to connect those dots or to connect them through a third team.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I don't think they have the Stones to bring in a Jimmy Butler who is, you know, unhappy in Miami. To think we're just going to trade for him even though he doesn't want to be here and think that things are going to work out in our favor. That just seems like something that Sacramento probably doesn't have the stomach for. Although I do like this has an idea of you know actually like for like in terms of all star for all star and you know obviously way different stages in their careers. But yeah I think Jimmy Butler a motivated Jimmy Butler would make Sacramento plenty tough going down the stretch. I just, I just don't know that they have the stones to do it. And just to end off the spurs conversation I don't think there's a single other max contract worthy person on their roster and the presumption that they're just going to bring one in who isn't a guy who's already stated his preference to be your freaking building that you would just sit on your hands and let nothing happen I think is crazy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think that that's the issue so much as is Dear and Fox that guy. I think there are a lot of players in San Antonio you would hope if you're the spurs are going to get better over time and you could package but how do you bring them in together?

[Big Waz]

You're just going to assume Maxworthy guys dying to move to San Antonio.

[Rob Mahoney]

I I think if you have Victor Wembanyama that's what you're betting on ultimately is that Fox is not going to be the last guy who wants to do this And I don't think it's unfair to look at Darren Fox a very good but was you said all star fringe.

[Big Waz]

He's a fringe all star.

[Rob Mahoney]

A fringe all star level player who hasn't had an opportunity yet to prove a ton in the league. Granted for reasons that are largely beyond his control as far as like winning at the highest levels go like that's a big bet on Dear and Fox. Like you're talking about the future of the spurs and the the kind of next stage of the Victor Wenyama era. I like personally Darren Fox is a fit for that but I don't blame anybody who looks at it and says is Fox quite the level of star that you want to be selling out for? I think it's reasonable to ask.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah to me it's more philosophical. I don't know if it's necessarily like oh we can be in the derby for the next superstar because I think you're right wise like how Many stars have we seen want to go to San Antonio. Even in the heydays, it was like Jason Kidd at best, and he didn't end up going there. And so I think that's a factor at the very least. But I think it's more like, do the spurs want to be the next Oklahoma City, or do they want to accelerate the growth and be more like a typical big market team that's going to import those sorts of guys? I just assumed because of the spurs and they do things so methodically that they would want to be more like okc, and then they'll just, like, keep feeding guys in the role. Players will come in and out, maybe we'll hit it big. But the problem as we're all outlining, is like, who's the next star? And how do you get to the position where you're drafting at the top of the draft? Because even though Casey needed to get a chat, Holmgren at number three, like, where's that number three pick coming from?

[Big Waz]

You know what? You know what? And you're going to appreciate this, Justin. You know what Rob is? Rob is that guy on Hinge who refuses to commit because he thinks he's going to swipe left on the next hottie.

[Justin Ferrier]

I said nothing about that.

[Big Waz]

I said they should trade for it. Okay, I agree with you. You're not going to get a supermodel on Hinge. This girl likes you. Settle down. Start something serious.

[Justin Ferrier]

I feel very attacked right now. It's not untrue, but it's just, you know, a little mean. I'll just say that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wise is hidden close to home, but I think we're onto something with Dear and Fox and the Spurs. I think Dear and Fox is onto something with wanting to get there in the first place. I think this is a deal that makes sense. And there is. There are enough pieces in play that could be appealing to Sacramento to make something that works. We'll see what, what if. What the ultimate asking price ends up being. Because if you're the Kings, rightly you want to keep getting better, but also you're giving up, like, the significant piece of the future of your team. So it's kind of a tricky situation to navigate, but there's so much here. I would just love to see it happen for basketball reasons.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, I would be surprised if the Kings trade for Jimmy, but I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to do both things with other teams involved. Like, because of how complicated the CBA math is at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we just get one trade like with seven different teams just trying to do everything at once because Jimmy's contract is so big and so onerous and because you have like, you know, like Bradley Beal having a no trade clause. This is just so fucking complicated. Could you get Jimmy to Phoenix in a way that like by the way, reroutes assets to Sacramento? That makes sense.

[Big Waz]

Important because I don't think it's happened enough around. The Jimmy discussion has been about the soap opera aspect. But the deal and I asked around on this that allegedly Phoenix has offered him is two years on top of his guarantee next year. So that's an extra 120 on top of the 52 next year. It's a steep price.

[Justin Ferrier]

A lot of money.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Waz]

Deep price.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we tried to reverse engineer this and I have to say like I am going blind with CBA exceptions as far as what the over 38 rule allows teams to actually do with teams like with players like Jimmy Butler. So I'm throwing my hands up at this point. I will, I will believe the extensions when they come for Jimmy Butler, the new deals when they come for Jimmy Butler. But you get the apprehension from the team side. If you're not someone who's as immediately desperate as the Phoenix Suns to look at Jimmy Butler and think about paying him 50 + million for the next three plus years after this one. That's a, it's a big ask even for a player of his caliber.

[Justin Ferrier]

Couple of professional journalists here just trying to figure out what's going on as we do. Let me, let me throw this option at you as if we're talking about like dark horses in the Fox Derby. What about Toronto? Because you're starting to hear little whispers where it's like maybe Toronto wants to get into the mix there. They kind of have their guy in Barnes, but clearly they need other guys to be around him.

[Big Waz]

They paid quickly on a 60 mil last year.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, that could be starting point guard for the Sacramento Kings, Emmanuel Quickley.

[Justin Ferrier]

That's, that's what I'm thinking. Because you're upgrading. If you're Toronto, you have all your picks going forward. I think they're actually plus one based on from Siakam's trade. So they have one from Indy coming. And why can't you just flip quickly for Fox and or quickly plus picks for Fox? I kind of like that for both teams.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't hate it. I think if you're Toronto you would have to be very confident that you can keep dear and Fox and history tells us you probably shouldn't be, given the way these, these kinds of negotiations go, given ultimately how a lot of NBA players still view Toronto to this day, you would have to have very specific intel that Fox is open to being there.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah. Was. Where is Toronto is like a superstar market now? Because I get the sense that, like, now people don't want to hang out with Drake. Is that, Is that correct?

[Big Waz]

I think I, I think Toronto is a great city when you're there, but I don't think anybody, especially an American, wants to sign up for going out of their way to move to Canada. I just don't think that is. That It's a great city, it's a great town nobody's ever been to. Toronto is like, oh, I'm lacking for, you know, things to get myself into. But just the commitment that it's like, all right, I'm going to commit myself to five years in the North. I don't think it's there, honestly. That's why it makes more sense that it would be homegrown guys that you just keep extending or, you know, got a guy like Quickley who's nobody's idea of a star or All Star, anything like that, but you bring him in and you sign them long term, rather than a guy like Fox who sees himself as a big entity in the league and feels like he has choices. Um, I don't think Toronto's the. Is gonna rate like that. And they're bad right now. Like, if they were trading for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

And they were bringing him into a situation where it's like, yo, we're top three in the East. Let's go. I don't care how you feel about Toronto. You've never really done this consistently in terms of going to the second round, challenging for conference championships, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, they're. They don't have that to offer either. So, like, what. Why would he be like, oh, I wanna hitch my wagon to the Raptors. It just. It just doesn't seem like a fit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just. I'm just going to throw this out there. Toronto, Raptors and playing surprisingly well lately, playing better, very well on defense lately. Now find themselves four and a half games out of the Eastern Conference play. And Jesus, it's not impossible that they could trade for somebody. And look, if you're talking about the Sixers and the Bulls and now the Hawks without Jalen Johnson as being their primary competition for making a play in spot, crazier things have happened. Would I guess that it will. No. Should. Should they trade for Someone like Darren Fox or make the gesture. It's obviously something you should kick the tires on. But to your point was like, you may be doing it more for next year, the full season. You have Fox under contract next season and hoping for the best and then potentially what you have going forward, but you're missing this crucial basically six month window of your kind of first period of having Fox.

[Justin Ferrier]

What about Orlando? It's probably the other team that you have to consider in this mix. Was you like that possibility?

[Big Waz]

I love that as a possibility. And I think they're the type of team that should be thinking, yo, we have the right to cut in line here on the Spurs. We have two guys that are like obviously all star level worthy players when they're on the floor. We have a clear hole in terms of maybe too much ball handling and initiation duties on Paolo Bonchiero. And so Fox is a need and he could play next to Suggs like this. He's a clear, obvious fit and a need. And I think they should be a candidate. Looks at themselves like, wait a minute, I know you want to play with Wembanyama, but like if, if, if we combine the powers of Franz and Paolo, like that's a nice situation, you know, Florida, no state income tax. Like, come on now, we got things to offer here and I think they should have the confidence definitely to step up and try to make a deal happen.

[Justin Ferrier]

What do you think, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think there's a version of this season where Paolo and Franz were healthy the whole time and the Magic had a much clearer articulation of what their team was. Where we get to February and they are ready to make a swing for someone like De'Aaron Fox. But if I'm putting myself in their shoes at this moment, I'm seeing so many variables within their own team as far as what these guys can be and what they are to each other and how it all works together. That for one, incorporating another major new element right now is not necessarily what they would want. And two, they just don't have a clear enough sense of if dear and Fox is the exact kind of point guard that they need to drive things. I think I'm open, I'm open to the debate as far as what Orlando's biggest needs are, but I think it's also reasonable to say that maybe what they need is someone who's a little bit more of a spacer and shooter than it is like a primary driving playmaker. Yeah.

[Justin Ferrier]

And if I'm Fox, the clear need for me is next to Wemby, like, Orlando kind of already has their guys and they're already developing other guys to support that. Like, Suggs is a big part of that team and like, their entire identity. You also have Anthony Black kind of like waiting in the wings. There's just like, it's a little bit more complicated than the fit in San Antonio, where you can just day one, you are the number two for that guy. And honestly, maybe even the more emotional number one of that team and you could just coast to being a 12 with Wemby going forward. And so, yeah, it's a little more complicated than it should be. Is there any other team on the board for Fox that we can think of, or is this the list?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's a realistic list.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah. Okay, let's flip to Jimmy now because it sounds like the price is getting pretty low in part because the Heat just keeps suspending the hell out of him. He just keeps showing up and they keep sending him right back home. We're now at the point that the reports indicate that, like, they're just look for anything at this point, which complicates things for Phoenix because Phoenix seemed to have the advantage because they were just so goddamn thirsty for Jimmy and they were just willing to make anything happen. Unfortunately, they have Bradley Beal. That's the only way they're going to get this done. He doesn't want to go anywhere bad, and most teams that are good don't want him, so that seems unlikely. I'll be honest, at this point. Maybe they make it happen just by sheer force of will. Jimmy wants to be there. They want him. This is how things happen in the NBA. But if there's another team on the board wise, is there another team that can maybe, like, sneak in here and like, get Jimmy out from under Phoenix's nose?

[Big Waz]

I mean, I know a lot of people have talked about Memphis and Jimmy's already said he doesn't want to get to Memphis. And I know for a fact that the Bucks have absolutely been thinking about possibly making the Jimmy thing happen. And I think that would be incredible for them.

[Rob Mahoney]

Um, one nightmares of what Jimmy has done to their playoff hope 100%.

[Big Waz]

And most importantly, you get the hell off of Khris Middleton. I'm back on the Khris Middleton. Wow.

[Justin Ferrier]

I saw him live the other night. They had to take him off the court because he kept following because he couldn't stay in front of people.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was like he's had some stash for sure.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, they need to get out of that Business asap. And Jimmy just makes it. Just makes them way better automatically. And I know this idea that, oh, Jimmy doesn't shoot it. Can he play? Jimmy Butler, when he's motivated, can play with anybody. Y'all, this guy's game is very malleable when this guy is motivated. Hell, he played. He made Ben Simmons work, for God's sakes. This guy can do it when he's motivated to get it done. I know the Bucks aren't on his preferred list, but I think they have the players, they have the talent, and they should have the confidence again, you know, internally, that you can convince Jimmy Butler, like, yo, don't tank the. You know, the next two years of your life being disgruntled, you know, play on a team that's going to try to compete for a championship, and you'll get your money, too.

[Justin Ferrier]

Here's my thing with the Bucks. Should they set their sights a little bit higher than Jimmy Butler?

[Rob Mahoney]

Jimmy Butler, that's pretty high.

[Big Waz]

So.

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, our next question on the board is, who's desperate enough to roll the dice on Zach Lavine?

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Justin Ferrier]

And so I think it's funny because we talk about Phoenix, where it's like. It's like a one to two year thing at best.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Justin Ferrier]

I kind of think Milwaukee is finding themselves in that similar situation where it's like, Damon's, what, he's 34 right now, going to be 35 next year. We're talking about this year and probably next year at best. So why am I not going all the way in getting the best possible player just to take advantage of the window right now? And if you look at the board, if everyone's, like, kind of waffling, where it's like, I don't know, I want to give up this pick and that big. I got second apron concerns, I got first apron concerns. I got all these aprons to deal with that 20, 31 unprotected bucks first could be kind of a game changer. So in 2031, Giannis is going to be 36 years old. Damian Lillard is 40 years old. He'll probably be doing beat poetry down the street from me in Portland.

[Big Waz]

I promise you that.

[Justin Ferrier]

So what I'm saying is, like, it's going to be bleak down the road eventually. Why not just go all the way to fucking make a play for lavine? And what it seems to be like, what a dosumu that seems to be like a package deal for them. Like, can I get the contracts plus that pick in order to get off Levine who as recently as this summer was available for free.

[Rob Mahoney]

So to you, Levine is the bigger get than Jimmy Butler?

[Big Waz]

I disagree.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think so.

[Big Waz]

I understand.

[Justin Ferrier]

I mean, he's not going to help your offense and obviously presents a lot of defensive concerns, but I think offensively you're just like, pretty fucking dynamic at that point that I'm just going to roll with it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have a lot of respect for Zach Levine and I, I want to kind of talk, I want to put him aside for now because I think there's a bigger conversation to be had about where he fits into all this and what, what the other teams for him could be as it relates to the Bucks specifically. He's a cleaner fit than Jimmy Butler, but Jimmy Butler balls out in the playoffs every single time, basically. I, I, I think he's kind of unimpeachable as a competitor when he is troubled to give a shit. And that's clearly the problem in Miami right now, is there's a, there's enough of a rift there that he's just not even going to show up, that he doesn't. He has no interest in being upstaged by Haywood Highsmith. I get it. I get what's happening. The idea of putting Levine over Butler in a pecking order I can't get behind just yet. Despite the fact how, despite how both of their seasons have gone, what Jimmy Butler represents to me is something that is more closely attuned to serious competitive basketball. And what Zach lavine represents to me is somebody who's been awesome this year and is also one of the bigger injury risks in the league on a massive contract. And yeah, if you are the Bucks or the Suns, maybe that time horizon doesn't bother you so much, but I do think it bothers a lot of teams, and it's a reason why the Zach Levine market has been, relatively speaking, as quiet as it has been so far.

[Justin Ferrier]

Wise Jimmy or lavine?

[Big Waz]

I'm a Jimmy guy. I'm, I'm in the tank for Jimmy. I really do think, even at his age, I think last year people got it twisted, like, because he missed so many games during the regular season, people thought it was just like, bro, somebody fell on his freaking leg in the last game that he played in. He just literally could not play it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There was that and there was other stuff. Like there's, there's the real injuries with Jimmy last season, and then there's the.

[Big Waz]

He'S just kind of to end the season he had in the season.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is an injury, an observable Injury. Injury earlier in the year.

[Big Waz]

No, earlier in the year.

[Rob Mahoney]

There was some other stuff going on.

[Big Waz]

It was a different as there almost.

[Rob Mahoney]

Always is with him these days, concern.

[Justin Ferrier]

Like, look, if you're expecting this to carry over into next season or even in throughout the course of this regular season, like Levine, yes. Has had the track record of being injured, but it seems like it's more major things that derail him completely versus with Jimmy. Like you're not sure night to night you already have to do that with Dame and like Giannis to extend increasingly especially how hard he plays. Like to me that's like a tougher regular season fit than lavine is.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wrong.

[Big Waz]

I, I, I just think if you, if your goal is to win a championship, I can't, like I can't believe that Zach lavine is more additive to a championship chase than Jimmy Butler. I just refuse to believe that on any team in any circumstance. Honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I, I, I think it might be a little a bit of a finer point than that just because their skill sets are so different. You could see lavine shooting being really meaningful to certain kinds of teams. Orlando's a great example. Orlando can use Zach Levine and would not have any use for Jimmy Butler relative to like what the rest of their line. So there those situations do exist. I just think the ones that could use Jimmy fundamentally, like Golden State still makes a lot of sense in the world. They're a team that probably should be operating like Phoenix is operating in some ways that should be operating with that level of urgency, but so far have not and they have financial considerations to navigate, just like the Suns do. But I, I think the warriors should be in the Jimmy Butler conversation. Have been in some respects in the Jimmy Butler conversation. I don't know if they're at the front of the line or not. I don't know if their offer is appealing to the Heat or not. We're going to have to see how all that unfolds. But that's a, that's a team that could use someone like him.

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, let's talk about the warriors because they're another obvious Jimmy Suter who can maybe slide in here. I'm ready to bury them like multiple times a week at this point. You talk to me on any other day, I could be one way or another. But then they go out and they.

[Rob Mahoney]

Beat the and it's just like I triumphant fashion.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yes. I guess there's still life here, I don't know wise. Do you think Jimmy. If we're presuming that the price is probably like, contracts, but even then, it's like, it's Wiggins, like, and. And probably some other guys.

[Big Waz]

So, to me, I feel like the warriors should be a lavine team. Um, even though I guess his timeline is slightly different from Jimmy's, because Jimmy's is already on the Steph and Draymond timeline, just age wise and even contract wise. Um, but I just think lavine so easily slots into the traditional clay role that his role is, like, waiting for him to walk into on Golden State. Right. And so that's why I think they should be a LaVine team. They should be the ones desperate enough, because even after Last night, at 23 and 23 guys, this is a middling operation. And I think Zach Levine would be a crazy injection. Like, by far the best offensive player Steph has played with since kd. Not even close. Okay. And so. Cause you gotta remember, KD's last year coincided with all the clay injuries, right? So Steph hasn't played with a guy of this caliber since 2019.

[Justin Ferrier]

Prime Pool.

[Big Waz]

Prime pool. I. Listen, we all were members of the pool party, but give me a break. We're not talking about peak Playboy Mansion here, guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cat guy. Big cat guy, Jordan.

[Big Waz]

We're talking about a YMCA pool.

[Justin Ferrier]

Why? Did you see that? Jordan Poole, number one cat guy in the NBA. You should love this guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Number one who? Guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cat guy. Oh, word.

[Big Waz]

I didn't know that. Shout out to Jordan Poole.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shout out to Candace Buckner for that story in the Washington Post. Tremendous stuff.

[Justin Ferrier]

It was an excellent story.

[Big Waz]

I think the warriors should be in on lavine. The fit is just so obvious in what they need in terms of the shooting and the one on one creation. I don't get it twisted. Jimmy and Draymond on the same team. Popcorn. Ready? Okay. Playing against Memphis in a playoff series like that, I'm there for that. But I think lavine is just a cleaner fit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's the problem with lavine, and it's a psychological one for the Warriors. They rebuffed the potential to trade for Zach Levine for much, much less than they would have to now. And can you now come back to those conversations and talk yourself into, am I willing to pay even more for the player that I didn't think was good enough a year ago? That's. It's a hard. It's a hard realization to come to. Even if it's true, and frankly, even if Zach Levine has played well enough to justify it.

[Justin Ferrier]

Listen, you could always go back. You know, you've fallen apart a little bit. Yeah, you could always send that text 11:00 at night, be like, hey, how are you? You know, you're really making.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're really fitting Woz's description of you, I have to say. Just falling right in line.

[Justin Ferrier]

I do like this Levine Jimmy binary though. We've kind of set up here in the, in the Maryland versus Jackie sort of fashion.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think was is right. I think Levine is the better fit. But if I'm the Warriors, I probably want Jimmy Moore, assuming that I can get him at a discount because my big plan is to make a huge splash in the summer or maybe next trade deadline. Like, I think if you're going to play it safe with the wars. And it sounds like that was their thinking, or at least that was the messaging from their biggest principles. You want to save your powder in order to jump on a Fox level talent or the next guy like that down the road. I'm not disrupting that. If it's like two picks for Zach Levine, if it's one pretty juicy pick that's going to encumber, like how I'm going to deal picks in the future just based on the stepping role, I'm not going to do that. And so like I like Jimmy as a fit, as like a short term Scott stopgap, but beyond that, not so much.

[Big Waz]

Are you giving Jimmy his two years after next year?

[Justin Ferrier]

Hopefully not, no. If I'm. If I'm Golden State.

[Big Waz]

So then you're not in the Jimmy business then.

[Justin Ferrier]

I guess I think that one has to beget the other. Yeah. Are there any other teams that could use either of these guys that you guys are thinking of?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think, you know, Jimmy Butler is in the Suns conversation perpetually. I think the Suns should probably be operating in the Zach Levine conversation as well. Like whatever you think of Bradley Beal and his limitations and his injury concerns, like Zach Levine is just a better version of the same player. And if you're already operating as if the world will not exist past 2026, like, what are you worried about with Zach Levine at this point?

[Justin Ferrier]

So I have a deal issue though, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

More of a Beal issue. And there's been some reports that he's not interested in going to Chicago. Fair enough.

[Justin Ferrier]

Fred Katz from Fred Katz, Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a problem and it's one that you have to navigate with all these Beal conversations because he has an unusual amount of power because of his no trade clause in dictating the course of action here. So it would have to be some kind of three team four team kind of deal where Brad Beal goes somewhere else that he's more open to and Zach Levine becomes a Phoenix Sun. But I think, I think lavine could make sense for them in the same ways that they thought Brad Beal could. But ultimately Zach Levine is the same thing, just a much, much better shooter at this point. Among other aspects.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think we're going to get to after the deadline at like 12:01pm Pacific on Thursday and the Suns are going to look exactly the same, which is very possible.

[Big Waz]

And they're going to chop their one traded voluntarily for Bradley Bill on a $50 million a year contract with no trade clause. You deserve your, your, your plight right now.

[Justin Ferrier]

That was insane.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will say the no trade clause is something that was flagged at the moment the Suns traded for him. They're like, this could actually be a huge problem. And guess what, it's become a huge problem.

[Justin Ferrier]

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[Justin Ferrier]

That's RocketMoney.com ringer anything else on Levine or Butler? Any of those guys? Because I have two other questions I have down here. Kind of like predicting the future. Let's get our hourglass out here. Who's going to make the move, number one that no one saw coming?

[Big Waz]

So by definition, it would have to be a team that everybody thinks is perfectly fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Um, and so my pick is the Cavs. Don't ask me what that move is. But in order to fulfill the question, it literally has to be a team that everybody's like, no, your season is going way better than you expected. Um, and so you probably shouldn't do anything. And if they were bold, and I've said this before, if they had balls, they'd be in the Jimmy conversation, too. But, you know, that would involve Garland, who, you know, let's face it, was crying about his role in the off season. Get his ass tomorrow, Miami, you know, you get to be the man over there, whatever. And I do think Jimmy makes them a more formidable playoff proposition than anybody else. But they're not going to do it. But I think they should be the team that blindsides everybody and makes a really bold move for their postseason future.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like how the conversation around the 38 and 9 Cavs became they don't have the balls to make the big, the big dick swinging trade that they need to for Jimmy Butler. I don't. I don't know. Like, don't get me wrong, the Cavs are not a perfect team. They could use a dose of what Jimmy Butler has to offer. Very, very hard to break up a core in that significant a way in a season like this one. So the Cavs, I think, could make some interesting deals, but probably more on the periphery. And that's why for me, if we're talking about moves that no one saw coming, we have to talk about the Thunder. A team that just has more options than any other team out there. I don't see it being a huge deal, but I think we're all talking about, oh, can the. Will the Thunder get Cam Johnson? And ultimately I think they're going to maybe make a swing for somebody completely unexpected.

[Big Waz]

See, the, the Thunder are the answer to various. Last question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ours are right.

[Justin Ferrier]

I have them as well. Who's in action is going to cause the most ire?

[Rob Mahoney]

You think they're going to cause ire?

[Big Waz]

The Thunder? You heard it here first. Listen to me now, y'all. The Thunder are going to lose way sooner than people like Rob think they are.

[Rob Mahoney]

In the playoffs.

[Big Waz]

In the playoffs, yeah. And when that happens, people like me are going to be like, you should have done something at the deadline. But I think, you know, I think that, I think Presti, by the way, who obviously doesn't need to listen to idiots like us. The guy clearly knows what the hell he's doing. I think he's operating on some. All short deals. When I do play pay a guy who is in Chet, J Dub or Shay, it's a three year deal like Hartenstein, it's, you know, a short, shorter term extension like Caruso, um, and then the rest of it I'm going to draft well and have young guys on cheap deals being my role players. I don't think they're letting go of any of those draft picks because their ownership is too cheap to ever pay more than three of these max guys that they have on the roster. So eventually J Dub and Chet are going to get their max contract and they're going to have to fill the roster with cheaper deals because they're never going to come near nobody's second apron or anything close to that. And so that's why I don't think they're going to make a move. They need those deal, they need those picks to sort of supplant these guys when, you know, some of these other role players on the team that everybody loves in a group interview and all of that. But those guys are going to want to get paid.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're going to have to group interviews so much.

[Big Waz]

I'm turning it into a bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to step on your bit was I'm sorry.

[Big Waz]

And, and that's why I don't think they're going to make a move. And I'm telling y'all I get it. I love what they're doing in the regular season. I think they're going to come short of where everybody's expectations, which is finals. I could see them not making a conference finals. Y'all.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Big Waz]

You know what I mean? And people are going to be like, why the hell didn't they go all out to make this team way better than it already is.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to clarify. I don't think they're going to go all out. I think the Thunder are going to do something unexpected. Not unlike last year when we were together at the deadline and they're like the Thunder trade for Gordon Hayward out of thin air. And I. I take your point overall philosophically about the picks. W. I agree that that's the way the Thunder seemed to be operating. And what's important to them is keeping the picks to bring young talent in on a cost control basis. They have three additional first round picks this year. At a certain point, you just can't roster all these guys. And so there are going to have to be trades that need to be made whether it's now or in the off season to consolidate some of that.

[Justin Ferrier]

What happened to your guy on that team, by the way? Poku, the Belgian guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Leon's. Don't. Don't even worry about it.

[Justin Ferrier]

He's not on the roster.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did he get recut?

[Justin Ferrier]

I think he got supplanted by Brandon Clarson.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that's tough.

[Justin Ferrier]

Carlson. Sorry.

[Rob Mahoney]

We hate to hear it. No. Okay, so he's playing for the blue. He's. It's as things are progressing as expected.

[Justin Ferrier]

Okay. He's going to eventually make it to the big club. Yeah. I. Last night against Golden State was very troublesome because. Exactly. The this type of scenario you worry about with the Thunder where it's like, oh, they're not hitting their threes, which means that they had to play Isaiah Joe more. But then he's going under on a Steph Curry three in a crunch time situation. Like that's the sort of cycling that I just don't want from my bulletproof number one contender, which is where I had them last week. And so I want them to do more. I think they could use a little bit more ball handling juice in the mix there. I think frankly they need someone to just like soak up a lot of the Alex Caruso mess because that guy's not shooting well. He's not even shooting the ball. And so they have the capital to keep Caruso and yet have someone who just does the job better. That would Be great. I also think like a Cam Johnson, as was the cat guy comes into play here. Kevin Johnson, another guy who I think we would, we would love to see there. They need something. I just want to see something. But I don't think it's going to happen.

[Big Waz]

Also just cynically and if you're Sam Presti, I don't have to do anything.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't.

[Big Waz]

My job is safe outside of some embarrassing first round exit. Nobody's going to complain about the season we had and then I get to say next year we're going to be even better because of internal development and blah, blah, blah. And the kids are going to be great. Like just cynically, why would I place more expectations on my roster? Why would I do that to myself?

[Rob Mahoney]

Because you could win the championship. That's it.

[Big Waz]

I could stay hired for 30 years.

[Justin Ferrier]

I don't. He has pushed in certain situations that we probably overlook because some of the more meticulous slow builds kind of take precedent, especially these days. But like Melody Perk, there's like a lot of like all in sort of moves, bold moves that like we would typically associate with Daryl Morey who like if we're talking about the team that's going to surprise. I have the Sixers very much with the bullet number one there because has there been a single deadline or. Daryl Morey did absolutely nothing last year was like more of a mixed bag where it's like we'll put our foot in the buddy healed water, we'll see what happens. Maybe it's something more like that, but I think you have to. If you're the Sixers, you have to start thinking about like should I tank this thing out here? Like, do I abort on Gerson Yabaselle who like might be a free agent this offseason? Like, if I can get something for him, will that help me down the road? Damn, dude. I want to see him in a good place. He deserves.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's their third best player.

[Justin Ferrier]

He should be in San Antonio. We're talking about Jaren Fox. Like yeah, he should be having a trade demand to get to San Antonio.

[Rob Mahoney]

With all due respect, they have Charles Bassey at home, you know, like they, they got some stuff going on.

[Justin Ferrier]

That's, that's, that's low, man. Yeah, but Yaboo deserves better than that. You know that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Consider that high praise.

[Justin Ferrier]

At the same time, Philly on a four game winning streak, they're. Let's see here. Two and a half games behind the Hawks for ninth. Hawks are going to probably lose a bunch With Jalen Johnson now for the rest of the season with that torn labrum, the Bulls, you assume would start throwing guys overboard. They're going to get worse, so they're going to find themselves in the playing mix pretty quickly. So I don't know. I think they're going to do something. I don't know which way, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

You would assume that the Bulls are going to start throwing guys overboard, but sometimes they don't.

[Big Waz]

They don't. They literally don't. They literally refuse to pick a direction.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, Vuch in Golden State is the perfect middle ground trade for both teams, frankly. Like, you're just going to lose Vuch anyway. He's playing out of his gourd right now.

[Big Waz]

Steve Kerr was. He's a vouch. Vuch is his curve player if I ever saw one dude.

[Justin Ferrier]

He loves a talented Euro, you know, why not just throw him where. Where is from? Balkans. I think he's a Balkans guy. So someone got really mad that I said the bonus was from the Balkans the other week. So I got to watch my European politics here. But for me, that makes sense for both teams.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I think the Vuch thing has been on the board for a reason for a long time. And it's just a matter of like, does the math line up and more importantly, does it stand in the way of whatever grander plans the warriors might have? And there's. There's some very delicate math by which Vuch and Jimmy Butler could become members of the Golden State Warriors. I don't think the asset management quite entices everyone involved to make something like that happen, but it's representative of part of the issue here, which is there are interlocking puzzle pieces across the trade trail, like trade market right now. And if you're a team like the warriors, you're not just looking at Vuch. You're like, can we get Vuch and another guy? Can we consolidate some of the pieces on our roster, some of the picks we have available to make multiple swings at once.

[Justin Ferrier]

Did you give your inaction team, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not. But the Bulls, I think, are a compelling one, and that's a team I would not be shocked to look on the other side of the deadline and see Vuch still on the roster, Zach Levine still on the roster. Every. Every trade candidate that we've talked about in Chicago still on the roster. Seems entirely possible to me. For me, it's a team that we often talk about this time of year, whether they make trades or not. And it's the Los Angeles Lakers. I want to I want to rephrase slightly in that Justin, you prompted us about whose inaction is going to cause the most ire. I think the Lakers are going to be very active. I just don't think they're going to be active in the way that it seems like a lot of people expect them to be. And that in itself is going to turn out to feel disappointing. Like it is theoretically possible for the Lakers to get in all sorts of trade conversations. I don't think a Miles Turner trade is coming. I don't think a Walker Kessler trade is coming. I would love to be surprised, but I have a feeling the return for the Lakers is going to be a lot more muted and it's going to be some fine rotation level pieces a la Dorian, Finney Smith. But I'm not seeing this as a team that's going to be saved within the month. It's going to be a team that marginally improves.

[Big Waz]

How can they be saved? Look, the roster is what it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

The roster is. The roster is what it is. But the Lakers do have a lot of picks at their disposal that they could move. I, I just don't think they're going to be moved to the effect that the Lakers diehards might want.

[Justin Ferrier]

What about Ben Simmons off the buyout market?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, here's the problem. They actually can't participate in the buyout market because they're over the first apron.

[Justin Ferrier]

Great. Ben. Ben Simmons trade outright.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I mean that, that you know, closer to reality than trading for Miles Turner is, I think. But maybe, maybe I'm proven wrong. Maybe the Pacers, you know, dump like completely change course given what their financial situation is going to look like over the next years. Like I understand the machinations involved. I just think there's always a lot of wishful thinking around this time of year as to what is going to salvage whatever state the Lakers season happens to be in. And I don't think this one is going to be salvaged.

[Justin Ferrier]

All right, let's wrap it there guys. I just love talking trade den then with you. I hope to do a lot of it with you guys next week. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Be back next week. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.