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The Knicks Do It Again! Plus, the Real OKC Shows Up, and What’s Behind the Round 2 Madness? | Group Chat
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- [00:00]
Justin Barrier
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- [01:38]
Rob Mahoney
Hello and.
- [01:39]
Justin Barrier
Welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me, the two alpha dogs from the conclave, Rob Mahoney. Big wise Rob, does the man upstairs have anything to say about what we're witnessing in the NBA playoffs? Because I've lost all sense of what's happening because there have been no normal games thus far in the second round.
- [01:57]
Rob Mahoney
I would like to believe that somebody on some level of existence has a finger on the pulse of what we've been watching, but I don't feel super confident about that. Was do you think the basketball gods are looking out for us?
- [02:09]
Wosny Lambre
I think so. I think that I think people did so much hand wringing complaining about the Eastern Conference playoffs of last season that he was like, all right, bet, watch this. And it's been exciting. And you know, as Justin hit up top, we got a fresh conclave going on. Got the black smoke today. Still haven't chosen a new pope. I'm reading stories in the New York Times about lobbying efforts from several different interests. People sending cases of wine to the Vatican from Napa Valley, which Is like.
- [02:42]
Rob Mahoney
Woz, first of all, people sending cases of wine. We all know you got your thumbs on the scales.
- [02:48]
Wosny Lambre
Well, no, because I would never send Napa wine to Italy. I mean, look, I love Napa wine, but these people have been making wine for thousands of years. Maybe figure out a different type of gift.
- [02:58]
Justin Barrier
You know, I didn't see the plume of smoke go up today, but I have to imagine it had a faint whiff of bing bong that just kind of emanated out of it. Because I can't fucking believe what we just witnessed. The Knicks playing just a totally fine game. They didn't play well for. Until, like, the last five to six minutes, end up upsetting the Celtics yet again. They're up now. 2. Oh, w. What the fuck is happening?
- [03:27]
Wosny Lambre
I. I just have so many feelings of watching both of these first games where, you know, the Celtics come out and it. They look so clearly better on both ends. Like they're generating all these great shots. They're scoring inside and out. They're defending the hell out of the Knicks, making Jalen Brunson's life a living. Just misery. And I'm like, okay, this seems like the series that I expected. And then inevitably, they go up by 20 points in the third quarter. And I'm like, here we go again. And instead of stretching that lead to 26, the lead gets dwindled down to 12 in like an instant. And I'm like, okay, that's curious, but this happened in game one already. Clearly, this is not going to happen in game two. Like, clearly at home against a team that the Celtics are clearly better than. This can't possibly be repeated. And what do you know, man? Fourth quarter, the Celtics go insanely cold. Mikel Bridges, I mean, I talk about, you know, when you get hit up on Twitter, you owe my favorite player an apology. I owe Mikhail Bridges an apology. I mean, defensively and offensively in this series, he's been money, um, and he was a big part of that fourth. And then the Celtics, I think a aided and abetted the Knicks in this robbery. To be honest, man, um, it was just. I don't know, it was just at a loss for words. Knick fans texted me. They. They're shaking. I have no words. I can't breathe. My chest is killing me. Nick fans, Nick fans don't even understand what has happened in these last two games.
- [05:13]
Rob Mahoney
I think there's a temptation with any, like, one or two point game to say a lot of big things about both teams. And in most cases, I'm like it's a one point game, it's a two point game, it's random chance, it's playoff basketball. I think we can say a lot of big things about both these teams based on these two games. These, these felt declarative in a way that yeah, we're grasping at what the meaning is exactly. But it feels telling that when push comes to shove, the Celtics are looking around and are unable to produce a single okay looking shot that is not a, a, a reasonable three. That is not a bad shot to take. But you need some kind of alternative and they fail to generate those consistently over these first two or a full court, half court screen out route for Jason Tatum. Like that's how much space and Runway it took to, to get Ace Celtic going downhill. That feels insane for a team, for an offensive juggernaut. Justin. I have no idea why Boston has gotten so bogged down and so unable to create anything one on one all of a sudden. Like Tatum and Brown just look frozen out.
- [06:14]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, we should talk about the Knicks defense eventually. But I thought that the Celtics offense, despite their lack of three point success, had enough diversity to it, had enough contributors to get them to the point where they were up by 20. You had Jaylen Brown being very aggressive to start with. Derek White kind of popped late on he into the paint. He was throwing up to some lobs to Cornet and then KP even looked alive for the couple of minutes that he was able to play in this game. I was like, oh, there's enough here, right? But for whatever reason in the fourth quarter, maybe it's just because like things get tense and they're so used to relying on the threes or Tatum and neither of them showed up that they just don't know where to go from there because the numbers are ghastly. Over the past 2 4th quarters of game one, game two, they have made nine field goals. In totality, they are 9 for 45. It just scene was like the Knicks are used to playing in the mud and digging out answers, whereas the Celtics tend to just, just get into disarray when these sorts of situations like present themselves.
- [07:17]
Wosny Lambre
So I'm so happy you said that because in my estimation I was like, if the Knicks want to be in this series, they have to try to get out in transition. They have to win on the offensive glass, they have to sell out on defense. The extra efforts every 50, 50 ball. They have to play like that team from last year, which you can ask anybody who watched this team this season all year, scant evidence that the team from last year still existed in this group until they played a freaking Boston Celtics apparently. And, and in the first quarter I texted the group chat and I'm just like, guys like the Knicks are actually scrapping on defense. They are making second efforts, they are pre switching, you know, the bad screens. Like they're doing all of the things that the best teams have to do against Boston in order to put them in uncompromising positions. It's just for me, I hadn't seen this group coalesce that way. Bridges, Bridges and Anunobe, man, you know there's been a lot of smut on their names, myself included. I've been a part of throwing dirt on these guys names all season. I'll be God damned if they haven't proven the proof of concept when Leon Rose and them brought them in this idea that we need these kind of wings that could stand up to the scrutiny of that Boston Celtics onslaught. And OG is everywhere. I guess Boston figured out in the scouting report that the guy likes to go right, so he didn't get to kill them on offense this game. But like Daniel defensively he is just on it. And the last thing I want to say is that I don't want to take any credit away from, from the New York Knicks and what they're doing, but it feels like the Knicks don't have the Celtics respect or at least watching the first two games, I don't get the sense that the Celtics, the way they play, like you're down, you're down 01, you about to be down 02, first two games at home, you are essentially playing for your season. OKC came out and treated it like it was their season on the line tonight the Celtics kind of was like, ah, it's the Knicks. Nah, it's the Knicks. And then they end up losing again in just insane fashion. Just so much to go into. I don't want to hog up the mic, but the, the grit man. And I hate the cliche. It's like especially cuz it's the one that Nick fans just cling to the most. Like oh he's such a Nick type of player. He's so gritty. Floor burns and all of that. But it's true. It's been true for two games. They go down 20 and do not quit, do not fold, do not bend, do not break. And end up winning both games in dramatic fashion.
- [10:03]
Rob Mahoney
I take what you're saying about the respect point. I just wonder how much of it is that and how much of it is Just these guys are not in physical condition to do it. Like, it's not like as we said, it's not like they're not trying on defense. It's not like they're not getting after it. But Jason Tatum looks mentally on a different plane of existence, especially during the fourth quarter. That was, that was nine minutes of the fourth quarter where they did not hit a field goal. That's, that's Tatum time. Historically there are possessions where Jalen Brown has Jalen Brunson in ISO and is trying to bait out bullshit fouls. And I'm, I'm sitting there wondering like why would he do that? And is it, is it because. And we saw him bully Josh Hart earlier in this game. He had moments of one on one scoring but ultimately those two guys combined for 13 of 42 from the field. That's just not nearly good enough even for a team that has all these options, even for a team that's theoretically this balanced. Because I feel like New York has done such a good job of taking away all of the downhill mechanisms of Boston's offense. And so then it's just passing around the perimeter and waiting for the semi open three to materialize. And Justin, there's just like such a huge difference to me between taking a bunch of threes because they're there versus like taking a bunch of threes as a point of strategic advantage based off of good action and flow. Like these don't feel like amazing shots. They feel like okay shots and there's still a lot of them.
- [11:23]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, well, let's talk about that Knicks defense because I think coming out of game one all you heard was eh, variants. You know, they missed a historic amount of three pointers. I think in total now they have missed 75 threes between the two games. Not taken 75. They have missed that many of them was how much of this is lack of success versus the switching that the Knicks are now employing. The physicality, like if you're just like to break this up via pie style, like what's getting the biggest piece?
- [11:55]
Wosny Lambre
So like I think this is what the playoffs exposes about the concept of shot quality. Right there's, there's the step back three going to your left that Tatum loves to take that when you're up eight or nine and it sends you to 12 or 11 with five minutes to go. That's just like a, ah, like a nice three. When it goes in, the crowd goes crazy. We've iced it and it just feels amazing.
- [12:21]
Rob Mahoney
That sounded refreshing as you were talking about it.
- [12:24]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, yeah, that.
- [12:26]
Wosny Lambre
That same shot. When you haven't made eight shots in a row, seven possessions in a row, it just has a different feel towards the game now. Your whole team has a feeling of resignation, like, God damn, we're settling for shots against this team that is kind of walking us down right now. So I think, I think some of the shots, like, yeah, it's cool in the regular season, it's cool when there's no stakes, but when it is a life or death moment at a certain point, like there was one possession within the midst of all of those misses in the fourth, where I think it's Josh Hart gets switched onto Tatum. And Josh Hart is a formula formidable defender, but he has. He's given up five inches to Tatum. And Tatum drives, but he drives into his Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant baseline, fade away like Bernard King, right? Instead of driving to finish with length over the 6, 3 guy who's guarding him. And I thought that was emblematic of what they were doing down the stretching while they were struggling. It's like even when you have the right idea and the Knicks are disciplined, send any help. It's like you're driving to set up your pretty Kobe move instead of driving to get fouled. And by the way, we used to kill Tatum for being horrible finishing at the rack, and he's gotten much better at it. Guess what? He didn't try to do none of his rack finishes in the fourth. This thing that I've watched him do all year be way better at, he didn't attempt to do none of that. It was all the dribble, dribble, dribble, step back, fade away, pretty jump shots. That was what was disappointing to me about it.
- [14:08]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, like those guys have to be punishers, right? Like, that's what's what made Boston champions, is they had all these threes. Obviously, it's a great source of base offense, but when push came to shove, Jalen Brown last season was physically overwhelming. People going to the basket and creating space in the mid range. Tatum was finishing so aggressively, Chris Aps Korzingis was killing everyone who would dare to switch on him for the free throw line in and was that was like an automatic basket. None of those things are working right now. And so then it's like, okay, when again, when you hit these moments, where are you turning from for offense? And you flash to the other side of the court and you have Jalen Brunson hitting clutch shot after clutch shot. You have OG and McKill bridges turning up baskets. You have Cat I think crucially, playing big in a game where he has to play big like that is so important in this matchup. And he delivered. I just don't think Boston has those sorts of answers right now. And it's. It's not like the Knicks are hitting threes. They can't shoot for shit either. They just have other answers.
- [15:04]
Justin Barrier
It's crazy that you mentioned that, because I was trying to think back to like this stretch where the Knicks were just like really cruising offensively until they hit their stride late in the game. And it was really like cat in the post against Al Horford in the double big lineup. And they did that for like three straight possessions. They went back to it in the second half, and then all of a sudden he was doing that against wings and he couldn't overpower them.
- [15:27]
Rob Mahoney
The.
- [15:28]
Justin Barrier
The Celtics wings are bigger. He would just have to put it on the floor. He wasn't getting depot position, post position. It just looked like wasn't working. And so I'm just like, there really weren't many answers for the Knicks in this game. It really did come down to some of the things we're talking about, the grit and all this other stuff. I guess the one thing we should talk about in addition to that, because if the Tatum play was the one big thing, just like not making the timeout, letting Tatum just go, and him kind of fumbling his way into that turnover, it was also following Mitchell Robinson.
- [15:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [15:55]
Justin Barrier
Specifically to get him off the floor. And Rob. So, like on the one hand, Mitchell Robinson, super impactful in this game. Obviously he was Garden Tatum up top in that final crucial possession. Doing that though, I mean, just yet another foul situation, much like the Thunder in game one, where it's just like, why is this happening?
- [16:14]
Rob Mahoney
I genuinely don't know that I've ever seen this version of this tactic before.
- [16:19]
Wosny Lambre
Where, again, there wasn't a tactic. They did hack and the Knicks were not in a bonus. So all they did was put the Knicks in a bonus.
- [16:27]
Rob Mahoney
That's what I'm talking about.
- [16:29]
Justin Barrier
Specifically, Missoula said afterward, is because Robinson was playing so well, he wanted to get him off the floor.
- [16:35]
Wosny Lambre
But then you're.
- [16:36]
Rob Mahoney
You're just willfully putting your team in the bonus minutes ahead. If not, maybe they would have never been in the bonus. Like, maybe, maybe there's a universe where the refs are looking at that, like that final Jalen Brunson foul and saying, oh, that happened before the gather. Maybe that's not a shooting foul. Maybe that's side out. Like, maybe that's maybe that's too close to call in that instance. Maybe that's clearly a shooting foul. I'm just saying, like, you gotta leave yourself some wiggle room with this stuff and not take fouls for no reason. With all due respect to Mitchell Robinson, who did have a big impact on this game and has had a much bigger impact on the series than we certainly forecasted, he's not worth that. I just don't. I just don't.
- [17:14]
Justin Barrier
Shaq.
- [17:15]
Wosny Lambre
Guys, all we've heard and learned all year is Mitchell Robinson is the exact kind of big the Celtics were want to face. They want to put him in panic. They want him to navigate screens. They want him on the floor. This is not prime Kevin Garnett we're talking about here. We're not talking about today's Evan Mobley. These Swiss army knife, they will guard the hell out of your point guard, no different than your center. Like, we're not talking about these special generational talents. Mitchell Robinson is a great rim defender, moves his feet pretty decently. Great rebound on both ends. Cool.
- [17:54]
Rob Mahoney
The Celtics offensive, even that might be strong. He's a pretty good rim defense, rim protector, he's a quite good rebounder, but fouls the shit out of everybody and usually can't stay on the floor or healthy.
- [18:04]
Wosny Lambre
The Celtics offense is designed precisely to attack his prototype. So now he's having. It's like all we ever hear about Joe Maz is like, yo, this guy believes in the process. He believes in the numbers he believes in. Like, you know, like, analytically. I get it, this guy's having a good game, but we're going to put him in conflict and generate good shots for ourselves down the stretch because this is what our identity is completely predicated upon. I think trying to get Mitchell Robinson out the game is just a. That's like a say uncle that I don't pretend I don't understand that.
- [18:38]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, it is a lot of dogma, a lot of big picture thinking colliding with small decisions and just like pragmatism of some of these other teams. And you're seeing it time and time again, even to the point where it's like, yes, the Celtics three point volume is revolutionary. Like, even this year they managed to put 10 more attempts up on last year's historic pace. But like Missoula will still even default to Biggs whenever he has to mess with his lineup. And it's one thing when it's Kristaps Porzingis, he has such an advantage, especially against Carl Anthony Towns. I Thought Cornette was pretty awesome in this game defensively.
- [19:14]
Wosny Lambre
Oh, my God.
- [19:14]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [19:15]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, he was catching lobs, too, but he will always default to more bigs as opposed to doing anything. Like, a little bit more creative. I mean, how many o' Shea Brissette conversations did we have last year? It just felt like those things compounded. Whereas, like, the. The Knicks just have such a streamlined approach to this, where it's like, Brunson, let's go. Clutch time. We know he's going to get a bucket. Even though he was awful up until that moment. It's just like, I don't know what to do here, Rob, if we're looking forward, because you would have to back basically just up. And who the Celtics are in all of this. Like, are you seeing any sorts of things that might be, like, takeaways, adjustments for the next game?
- [19:55]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, as far as takeaways go, I think a lot of what we're describing in terms of the discrepancy in how these two teams played and executed and carried themselves in the fourth quarter is a discrepancy of belief. Right? Like, there is a belief that what we're doing is working, that this is going to generate good shots, that we know where to go in order to create good offense and, like, give the ball to Jalen Brunson is simplistic, and it flattens out your offense, but it's also very straightforward in terms of everyone knowing exactly what the score is and exactly what to do. It doesn't feel like Boston knows what to do, and it feels like they're not entirely trusting their process. And you can even see some of this with Joe, too, where coming out of Game one, Missoula was very protective and defensive of the shot profile. That. The fact that, you know, it is about the process. This isn't too many threes. This is a. This is a winning formula. We just have to execute it better and play harder and make some adjustments. He said all that. And then the Celtics came into this game, first quarter, driving aggressively, posting up, trying to establish all these alternative forms of offense that by the fourth quarter, just, like, weren't there anymore. And so it's telling me, like, they understand on some level that they need these other things, but they're. They're desperate for ways to not just create them, but to sustainably create them. And I think that's going to be the hard part. When you got OG in your jersey the whole game, when you got McHale flying around the floor, when you got Deuce McBride coming in and playing really good high pressure defensive minutes in a way, that's actually kind of mucking up your offense a little bit.
- [21:19]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah. I would say the only thing that you can hang your hat on if you're the Celtics is it's not like the Knicks have, like, this track record of burying teams and they're gonna finish you off or whatever. It's a new group. You know, many of these guys are. Haven't been very far in the playoffs. You have that. And also it's like your defense has been good, you know, like, it's been good enough to win. It's your offense that has become your identity. And if you could just be even closer to what you're known for, I think everything will be fine. But even in that sense, the Knicks, you know, God forbid they ever run a play for Karl Anthony Towns. There were even times where Boston was switching Derrick White onto Towns and the Knicks didn't find him or whatever. And then Towns would be like, you know what? I'll go in for offensive rebound or whatever. I think if the Knicks. The Knicks can improve in terms of their offensive process. But I don't know how you. How I'm supposed to not think the Celtics don't have potential for offensive growth. Like, of course.
- [22:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, they do.
- [22:33]
Justin Barrier
Of course.
- [22:33]
Wosny Lambre
Crazy what we've witnessed for two games in a row.
- [22:37]
Rob Mahoney
They should win just like they should have won these last two games. That. That I think is what's stopping us in our tracks is, like, the math is there. They should win these games. You're right. Like, The Knicks had a 95 offensive rating, 95 points per 100 possessions. That's a winning margin for any other game that the Celtics play. And for some reason tonight, it was a losing one. And in game one, it was a losing one. So what are we supposed to make of that?
- [22:59]
Wosny Lambre
But the problem with two games in the bag for the Knicks if you're the Celtics, is what happens when Tatum tweaks his ankle in a game. What happens when Jaylen Brown gets in foul trouble in a game? Like, what happens, you know, like, now you can't sustain those weird things. Steph Curry freaking strained his hamstring yesterday or whenever it was. Like, these are the things that happen over the course of a playoff series. That's why all of these games count. All of these games matter. And, you know, just the Celtics not winning. This, going away, you know, coming out like a bat shot out of hell. It's quite, quite disturbing.
- [23:43]
Justin Barrier
It's very reminiscent of the Heat series from two Years ago in the east finals where it's like you get down and you still want to believe in your belief system, you still want to push the math on the threes. But now is Tatum going to start being like, well actually I need to do more when in. When maybe in actuality you need him to just be who he has been. Right. You don't want him to press because that's when they start to get a little bit funky here. Yeah. The fact that this has been a defensive slobber knocker is just like so startling. These are the two of the like juggernaut offenses. Even though the Knicks slipped in the second half of the season, obviously they have the firepower there. The Celtics ended up scoring three fewer points than the Thunder scored in the first half of their game against the Denver Nuggets. And just to put some history to this Celtics, first team to blow multiple 20 point leads in the same postseason in a play by play era that's since 96, 97.
- [24:38]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah. These 20 point leads don't mean what they used to, obviously. Cause like I remember when I first started watching basketball, if a team had a seven point lead, it felt damn near insurmountable, honestly. Especially 90s and early 2000s basketball, late 90s where it was just, you know, these games ending in the 70s. There were Pistons games that would end in the 60s.
- [25:04]
Justin Barrier
Like these kids haven't seen Al Jefferson in the post for multiple possessions. You know, that used to be an entire quarter of basketball.
- [25:12]
Rob Mahoney
I know we're losing recipes, we're really messing up as a society.
- [25:16]
Wosny Lambre
But yeah, just a couple of things I wanted, just one last thing I wanted to highlight. Karl Towns and Justin, I think you kind of mentioned it in the first quarter when the Knicks got down by 13 and I was like, all right, well this is going to end up being the blowout. And you know, one, one back to New York. Carl Towns just started dominating. He just started demanding the ball. Al Horford, I don't care. And one on you getting rebounds, pushing it. Um, he just started playing way better and kept the Knicks within, you know, some level of striking distance before things could get out of hand. I thought that was amazing. And again, Mikael Bridges in the fourth quarter just being a mid range and long range assassin. And you know, he's got this quirk to his game where he just doesn't take layups. Like he drives to shoot mid rangers, but he's, you know, he's obviously really efficient at it. And in the fourth that thing was on full display.
- [26:12]
Rob Mahoney
Man, it's just hard.
- [26:14]
Wosny Lambre
And obviously Brunson in the crutch clutch.
- [26:16]
Justin Barrier
Yes.
- [26:16]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, like, we can gloss over the Brunson piece of this because he did have kind of a weird Brunson game where he then came through in the end. But carrying this effort was cat and Bridges and OG and death by a thousand Josh Hart cuts like that. That is how the Knicks won.
- [26:31]
Justin Barrier
I will say carrying over from on the cat point, I do worry about like just him physically because as he was going like they were going to him more in the post, he was also switching on to the best like ball handler on the other hand. And it seemed like he was wearing down pretty quickly. And so maybe that is partly why they. They went a little bit more aggressive with offense, defense. Robinson obviously played well enough in order to make it work. Whereas like, when does, when does Bridges. When do we start forgetting in New York everything that happened in the regular season? He becomes a guy. Has it already happened?
- [27:04]
Wosny Lambre
I think it's already happened.
- [27:06]
Rob Mahoney
It was game one, right? Like game one stop at in crunch time.
- [27:09]
Wosny Lambre
Like, that's 100%. He was pretty damn good against Detroit too. If the Knicks some. First of all, like, that's another thing. I'm trying to think of the last time a Knicks win felt this way. And it sounds dramatic, but I'm pretty sure it's the four point play LJ against the Pacers in 1999. I'm talking about the.
- [27:35]
Rob Mahoney
You're not wrong.
- [27:36]
Wosny Lambre
The most, like the most dramatic Nick victory. This is 25 years apart, guys. Okay, for a second round win on the road, but it's like the defending champion on the road. Um, just the drama is, is crazy. But like, if the Knicks go to the conference finals. If the Knicks go to the conference finals, like, I'm pretty sure all of the guys on this team will have their jerseys retired at some point. For the New York Knicks, that's how dramatic it is.
- [28:09]
Rob Mahoney
Jalen Brunson already was never gonna buy another drink in the city for the rest of his life. But can we, can we at least get like a sandwich named after OG somewhere? Like, is that within our power to.
- [28:18]
Wosny Lambre
Do Cat Stally get on him and.
- [28:23]
Justin Barrier
A no BLT or something?
- [28:25]
Rob Mahoney
See, now we're. Now we're cooking with fucking gas. Justin, let's go.
- [28:30]
Justin Barrier
Well, I'm trying to think what the biggest Knicks postseason moment was in between. It was probably Amari Stoudemire punching the fire hydrant. Like, at least in terms of memorable, because those, those metal years really did not have much of it.
- [28:42]
Wosny Lambre
They got to the second round against the Pacers and got dominated. And that was their first second round appearance, I'm pretty sure since 2000 or 2001 or something. Insanely, Allen Houston was still on the team okay. By the time that happened. Yeah, like this is because again, I. I remember that 99 playoffs, the entire run, like it was yesterday, like beating Miami, who they hated as an eighth seed at the buzzer. Allen Houston, back when we only played five games. In game five, they absolutely destroyed the Hawks, you know, Steve Smith and those guys. Then they played the Pacers, who was their other just arch rival. And yeah, man, the LJ continuation. Four point play. Insane. Patrick Ewing didn't play the whole playoffs. It was like this ridiculous kind of Cinderella run to. Felt just like the entire playoffs. Felt like a dream almost watching this, you know, it was Sprewell's first year, just a crazy ragtag group of guys. But yeah, I just don't remember this feeling around the Knicks and the success feeling like, oh no, this is like concrete. A legitimately talented team, you know, doing this. It's crazy. Like I checked my social media earlier. They're like, I like half of them. I literally couldn't play on the pod. There's so many expletives and just craziness happening. It's really something.
- [30:15]
Justin Barrier
We should do that though, next time.
- [30:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, play the victory round maybe.
- [30:21]
Justin Barrier
So this is probably the craziest series on the board at this point, but certainly there's competition in the second round. According to our friend Zach Crammed, there have been four games already where a team has had a 98 or more win probability and lost. It was the two Celtics games, the first Thunder game and Cavs game two. I think one of the takeaways should just be that like, maybe fuck when probability forever and ever. I don't want to see another chart out there ever again. I think the other thing is like, this has been an absolutely wild second round. Just building upon what we had in the first round. I don't want to jinx it because we still got a ways to go here, but this has been an incredible postseason.
- [31:00]
Isaiah Blakely
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- [31:58]
Rob Mahoney
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- [32:26]
Ben Cruz
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- [33:07]
Justin Barrier
I'm just curious if you guys have any thoughts on why things have been so wonky in this second round. I have just a working theory that I'm kind of noodling on where I do wonder if we're reaching a tipping point in terms of three point volume and we're seeing a lot of teams who have been overly reliant on that get into situations like we said with the Celtics where it comes down to nut crunching time and there are teams that are a little bit more pragmatic, a little bit more physical, perhaps have a go to guy that they're used to going to and so they just maybe have the muscle memory for that. Just looking at the like the three point attempts just from the regular season. Celtics were first by far, Cavs are fourth, Wolves were fifth, OKC, 10th and even 10th. Like you're taking 39 a game, which would have been right up there like I think top three, top five somewhere last year. So part of me thinks like, well maybe that's too easy. But I do think maybe in this word cloud of things that's part of it. Rob, are you seeing anything like does this, does this, this pass the smell test or is there anything else going on here?
- [34:12]
Rob Mahoney
I do think that is part of it. Clearly three point variance has just been a wrinkle of this particular era of NBA history and it started tilting things in that direction. I wonder if we're just kind of getting the payoff of the NBA's parody era in general of team. You know, definitely like not quite so much stratification or at least not as much as the Thunders win total might leave you lead you to believe. Although they certainly said otherwise tonight. Certainly not as emphatically as, you know, Boston and Cleveland's win totals would have led you to believe. I think that's all part of it. I also think like teams are getting really smart at how they're junking up the game. We've seen so much zone, so much zone defense and so many teams that just like don't quite know what to do with it. In part because there are these weird hybrid zones that are shifting in and out of man that aren't quite identifiable right out of the gate, that are hard to like go into a timeout and quickly diagnose and then come out and know exactly what you're going to see. And so yeah, I think what you're seeing is the teams that are winning are the teams that do have those bonafide shot creators, that do have the really high level passing processors, but also the teams that didn't have to kill themselves to get here, right? The teams that had sprint down the like the stretch of the regular season, whether that was to get through some of the muck of the play in whether that was to get out of the six seed and try to or get out of the seventh seed and try to solidify yourself in the playoff bracket. Like I think there's just been a cost in terms of teams really burning out a bit down the stretch in order to get to this place. Now that doesn't explain what's going on with the Cavs and the Celtics. Like that's a totally different case. But as far as some of these teams in the middle, I think that's part of the puzzle.
- [35:41]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I remember maybe like a week or two ago or maybe like a couple weeks ago, Brian Windhorst was on with Bill and he was talking about why he loves the international game so much. And he's like, because that 40 minutes, it's like the players have a hard time adjusting to how quick that goes, right? He's like, there's a mentality where like, all right, we're down 15, we're down 20, like it's gonna be fine. I think that mentality of a 48 minute game, I think that's a new thing that every team has adopted. I remember the, I distinctly remember the first team who no 20 point lead was safe and that was the 739 warriors where like we'd be watching them on league pass, they'd be down a bunch to a team and then it's like, oh, here they go. They did it to the Clippers a bunch of times in that era too where the Clippers would come out, they'd be up 18, and then inevitably the dubs would come back and ultimately win that game. That's the first team that I associated that like no 20 point lead is safe ever. And now it's like any quality team, no matter who they're playing against, is not out of a game. And I really do think, like teams back in the days, like, there's just like, you know, like there's something to like understanding what's possible, right? Where the more you see it happen, the more you understand that you can do it. Um, back in the days, I think guys would have just been like, yo, it's the third quarter, we're down 22. You know, like, tomorrow's another day. Even though it's the playoffs, we'll lose the first game of the series or whatever. We've already in, in Indy's case, like we've got a bird in the hand on the road, we're going back home, it'd be completely fine. I think that would, they would have just let good enough, leave it alone. But nowadays I think everybody has that belief and that mentality that they could come back from any deficit.
- [37:50]
Rob Mahoney
We've been actually getting some emails flooding in to the group chat email address ringergroupchatmail.com shouts to you for checking. Look, I do read them. I do read them genuinely. We got an email from Gabriel who was asking us after game one that granted, this was before this game, are we thinking any differently about the Pistons after the Knicks showing against the Celtics? You know, we had no, none whatsoever.
- [38:12]
Wosny Lambre
For you no, absolutely not.
- [38:14]
Rob Mahoney
Everything said.
- [38:16]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, no, I think Detroit, like, I think Detroit is good. I don't not think they're a good team. But do I think like Toby Harris and Malik Beasley and Timothy Hardaway Jr. Are foundational, quality playoff players?
- [38:31]
Rob Mahoney
Timothy Hardaway, is he in trouble?
- [38:36]
Wosny Lambre
I don't think those guys are like the foundations of a rock solid playoff group. I really don't. But maybe I'm being too dismissive.
- [38:46]
Justin Barrier
I think that they scale well from here. Whereas, like, if you look at the Pacers as the example of like their Midwest brethren who has like clearly a guy as your focal point, they have if anything, more powder because they've drafted more high. Like they have more high draft picks in order to either go get that person or just add them to Jaden Ivy and Asar Thompson and whatever else they've built. And so. And I think all that they need are kind of plug and play shooters in order to get by. And so while maybe Mike Beasley would get overpaid, maybe Tim Hardaway, Timothy Hardaway will get overpaid, like I do think you could replicate that with somebody else more easily than something that's a little bit more foundational. But I guess the overall point is that we're kind of in the abundance era for NBA talent. Is that kind of where we're going for that?
- [39:31]
Rob Mahoney
Might be it, you know.
- [39:32]
Justin Barrier
Well, is that partly why, why we're seeing so much zone then? Is it because there are just more credible players in order to execute that sort of thing? Is it because like you could throw that out there? Because, you know, threes are going to matter so much more. So just like jostling the offense, like throwing something new at them actually matters because then they have to think a little bit more like, why is there so much zone right now?
- [39:59]
Wosny Lambre
I think teams just have more practice at it instead of it being some kind of gimmick change up. It's actually part of the core, you know, like, like instead of it being a knuckleball, it is more like a curveball, right? Where like a knuckleball feels like a gimmick and just like some sideshow. It' like. No, this is a legitimate strategy that we can deploy depending on the opponent. I think another thing which I have talked about on our show before 15 years ago, there just were not very many bench units that could erase a 15 point deficit. Like, I'm sorry bro, you go to your eighth and ninth guys, they're so bad at offense, there's no way they are generating the Juice to cut your 19 point deficit to seven. Like, it's just not happening 15 years ago. I think that is part of it too. Justin, you're right. The talent being so spread out up and down the lineup where it's like there's dangerous guys constantly in there. Whereas, you know, I think like a really, like, you think about somebody on OKC who they got like four guys who fan bases 15 years ago would be bragging about how great their six man is, like, oh, we have a super sub. They have like four of these dudes in their rotation that do not start. Sometimes they don't play. Depending on the matchup, who I can clearly see in my mind's eye would have been special bench players for certain teams back in the day. So I think the firepower element does add something to it.
- [41:41]
Rob Mahoney
I think with the zone two, you're seeing teams conform front orthodoxy a little bit. Like there's all these rules about zones. Like you don't run zone against teams that can really shoot. You don't run zone against teams that can offensive rebound. You don't run zone against teams that can cut. It's like, well, what if all the teams that can shoot in the modern NBA don't offensive rebound because they're all so spaced out, they're all playing so small. Like, are you really doing a dual threat? Do you really have both of those vulnerabilities if you just play zone for a little bit? And I think all the rules about Zone 2 are from an era of man to man or like base shell defense where you could expect to hold up. And the realities of the modern NBA are you're not going to hold up. The offense is one, the arms race is over. These teams will score on you and kill you. Not if you can't take away threes, but if you can't defend space. And so I think we've seen this transition from teams learning and trying to adjust on the fly to, okay, we got to close out to three. We got to take away these shots for these guys. We're not going to leave Steph open. But Brandon, Brandon Pajemski, we're going to live with some of those. You know, Gary Payton, certainly you're going to take, Draymond Green, certainly you're going to take and you're going to get burned by some of those sequences. But I think we've seen teams have tremendous success going through like a mental shift in what is allowable for a zone defense and what you can stick with relative to the supposed vulnerabilities that have been there for decades and decades.
- [43:00]
Justin Barrier
That makes sense. Well, one of those teams that's like, navigating that space, I think better than anyone, especially tonight, was the Oklahoma City Thunder. A little bit different than game one. This was over pretty quickly. As I mentioned before, 87 points in the first half alone. That is an NBA playoff record. So this one was nuts. Just perhaps slightly different than it was in Game one and maybe in some of these other games. I don't know what to talk about here. Like, I kind of want to instantly be, like, they use JWOL more. And that's, like, a pretty interesting wrinkle that we might see a little bit later on.
- [43:36]
Rob Mahoney
I flagged that, too. We should come back to that. But I think ultimately this felt so much more like a Thunder game just from the jump, from an energy standpoint in terms of Shai's involvement and the pressure he was putting on the game. But, yeah, they have so many guys who they can twist the rotation and it still works, and it still feels like the Thunder. Like, they still feel like they're playing within their identity. And I think that's what makes them such a great, like, contender to forecast and such an easy team to believe in is. Yeah, in this game, Alex Caruso is going to play a huge part in this game. J. Will is going to play a huge part in this game. Aaron Wiggins is going to play a huge part, or Isaiah Joe or whoever. Like, they just have those bodies. And ultimately, too, I thought this was a really strong response game from Chet, who I think could have come out of Game one where he could ice that game at the free throw line. Kind of blew it, to be honest with you. And. And I think messed up on some other critical rotations in that game as well. Came into this one like a bat out of hell, flying through the open court, attacking, attacking, attacking, attacking in exactly the way you would want to see if you're the Thunder. So, I mean, a resounding effort in every possible respect, but certainly one for Chad in particular.
- [44:39]
Wosny Lambre
Couple of things I thought the Thunder, what I. I mean, offensively, like, the way these guys were getting out on the break, you know, splashing every single three, like they were just on another plane offensively. But I thought defensively is where they set the tone, especially in their physicality with Jokic, which I think is going to be something to watch. This is what I mean, like, when I always say, like, physicality is going to favor the smaller team, they can't guard Jokic just Straight up. They have to be able to put hands on him and physically abuse this guy and get some level of leeway. Like, if they're not getting a quick whistle on that, then they now have a chance to do their Oklahoma City thing defensively with the Swarm and all of that stuff. And I thought they set a tone, man. They freaking. They smacked Jokic with a bunch of forearm shivers, and he wasn't able to get good positioning. And even when he did, the little bees were swarming around him and stuff like that. I thought defensively they set an amazing tone to start the game. And that's what really got this thing cracking, is that they were like, yo, kids, you're not gonna bully us and beat us up today like you did in Game one. And that, to me, got everything rolling downhill to where these guys are shooting threes. This. These ball, it's not even touching the net. Guys like the rim. Excuse me. These shots were just complete cash all night long. But. And I hate to sound like an old school type of guy, but, yeah, they did that on defense, man. I swear to God.
- [46:21]
Rob Mahoney
Wins championships maybe.
- [46:24]
Justin Barrier
Good. That's probably a good segue into the J. WOL stuff because the Thunder went out basically beyond the starting lineup, played one big, and we're basically asking Jokic to play in space a lot of the time. And I pointed that out in our group chat, which I pretty sure I went back and deleted the next day. But neither here nor there. Obviously didn't work down the stretch here. But then they played J. Will a little bit more here, were a little bit more ready to play two bigs. Jwell with Chet in those rotation. Crusoe got in there in the second quarter and whatnot. But that's a nice little adjustment there that I think could pay dividends because if he's going to hit shots and be respected offensively, he's a big body who could move and really just fits what they're doing. And that's. That's the whole advantage of the Thunder, Rob, is that they just have, like, options of the same type of guy that they could just cycle through in order to find the right matchup.
- [47:14]
Rob Mahoney
And in this case, I'm sure that has a little something to do with the fact that in Game one, the Thunder just got pulverized on the glass. They just needed more size out there, period. And so you put J Will out there.
- [47:24]
Wosny Lambre
He.
- [47:25]
Rob Mahoney
It's very familiar formula. We've talked about it many times. You put him on Jokic, you have Chet roaming behind him now. You're feeding into that. That swarming vibe of the defense overall.
- [47:34]
Justin Barrier
Great.
- [47:34]
Rob Mahoney
That's a wonderful premise for any team to kind of have to be able to toy with them in the middle of a series. The wrinkle here is, like, those two guys, Chad and J. Will, played 59 total minutes together in the entire regular season. That was. This was not a combination that was in the Thunder's pocket. It was not something that was part of their arsenal. They did not really do it. I think some of it is in this series, it makes sense for a lot of reasons to play Chet as a little bit more of a 4 than an optional 5, at least when Yokage is out there. Like, put multiple bigs out there when Yokage is on the floor, have J. Will have Hartenstein bully the hell out of him as much as possible. Have Chet as a roamer, you know, really eating up shots on the back line and warding off any potential drivers like this. This is part of the. What OKC was doing so effectively defensively, too, is, yeah, they're swiping down was in exactly the way you're saying on Jokic bodying him up, taking shots when Jokic kicks out. They're so fast at getting to Jamal Murray in the corner, to Michael Porter in the corner. 2 Christian Brown on the perimeter. Those guys didn't have to put the ball on the ground. And, oh, Chad Holmgren's waiting for you because he's roaming off as of somebody, you know, like, you may have to live with the occasional, like, Aaron Gordon 3 that results from that, but I think it's easily worth it if you can just get the. Get Denver caught in that cycle and just as importantly, get the Nuggets supporting players around Jokic sped up to a degree that they're just making mistakes all over the place.
- [48:55]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, I think this will ultimately come down to this proprietary stat that I've been working on. It's called piss your pants factor.
- [49:03]
Rob Mahoney
How do you measure that?
- [49:05]
Justin Barrier
Just in, like, volume, cubic volume or gallons? I don't know. Just, you know, obviously didn't go well for the Thunder in Game one for, like, across the board, even Mark Dagnall, just with some of the decisions to follow that with that much time on the clock. Everyone's been talking about it. We have to get into it again. Even in this game, it's like, Chet played well, but then he's just, like, kind of recklessly dribbling up the core, and he's like, fumbling away and joke is just instantly kind of swats. It's just like those type of things in the wrong situation just tend to show themselves. With the Thunder in particular, it's just like you got to watch out for it. I mean, maybe they just blow them out so badly that they don't get into those situations. And that's the solve, which is great. Honestly. It's very Celtics in that regard. But we are going to have to wait until the next very close game because there are a lot of guys that are going to have to acquit themselves.
- [49:59]
Rob Mahoney
As far as the proprietary stats go though, who's pissing their pants and in relation to who, 40.
- [50:05]
Justin Barrier
Well, the kids were having fun.
- [50:07]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [50:08]
Justin Barrier
It was a very low piss pants factor.
- [50:10]
Rob Mahoney
I see, I see. Okay.
- [50:12]
Wosny Lambre
You was talking about game one.
- [50:14]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, yeah. I have, I have a. I have minus 1.2 piss pants.
- [50:17]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, okay, good.
- [50:21]
Justin Barrier
But in game, in game one. Yeah. I'm talking more like plus plus 15. Yeah.
- [50:26]
Rob Mahoney
I mean that was. Yeah. Truly historic. Never been done in NBA playoff history before. A +15 piss your pants factor. It's crazy.
- [50:33]
Justin Barrier
Most. Most in the play by play era. Yeah. But yeah, that's all you have to watch out for with them. But this was exactly what you wanted to see and what I expected to see.
- [50:43]
Wosny Lambre
100% proud to see the Thunder come out in a legitimately, I would say this season was over if they lost tonight.
- [50:52]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [50:52]
Wosny Lambre
And these guys played like it. They played like it was a game seven. Like, you know, I was on my couch thinking about it. I was like, at times it feels like the Nuggets are on like a Sunday leisurely stroll and like the Thunder are playing as if their families are being held hostage. If they don't win, they'll all like die or whatever. Like that was the difference in the game to me. Just watching it. It was like they were in a taken movie.
- [51:20]
Rob Mahoney
See, I agree with the Thunder part of that. I. I thought the, the Nuggets were playing pretty hard and we're getting after it. I just think it's really fucking hard to play against the Thunder and it did not go well from the jump and then just like it was a landslide from that.
- [51:34]
Wosny Lambre
Some of the stuff where like you're giving an entry pass and you're not taking the extra step to move towards it.
- [51:40]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [51:41]
Wosny Lambre
Right. And you'd like you. That's. To me, that's absent minded. Like you know who you're playing against.
- [51:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [51:46]
Wosny Lambre
Right. You're an NBA player. Like you have to be more forceful about how and where you catch it when you catch it on the low block. You have to know these guys are coming. Like there's just a way that they approached it that it just felt like getting poked from behind. Like you dribble past somebody, they poke it from behind. I'm like, y' all not. Y' all not going hard enough, bro. These guys are trying to kill you. They were trying to take their heads off tonight and I'm glad they did that. It sends a dope message and it. And it makes game three in Denver that much more fun and more anticipated, man, because Denver got embarrassed and now they have to respond. That's the beauty of the playoffs.
- [52:29]
Justin Barrier
All right, since we're looking ahead, why don't we look ahead on some of these other series that are going on here. I love the thrill of the first round, but like second round is where you can really just dig in. It's a nice, hearty meal. You got two a night. You could really just like watch everything as opposed to flipping back and forth with NBA tv. It's great. Obviously, got to start with Steph Curry out for a week. Grade 1 left hamstring strain. So a week from today on Wednesday would be game five, which means that he's most likely going to miss at least two through four and then he's just going to be reevaluated in a week. So we don't know if he is going to play game five. Tough one. So wise. Unless the new Splash bros of Buddy Healed and Draymond Green can replicate what they had and then some in game one, this one seems pretty tough.
- [53:16]
Wosny Lambre
Steph Curry's not out for a week. This is not a one week injury.
- [53:20]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, you're saying doctor was.
- [53:22]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, yeah. Like there's no way this guy's playing in a week. I refuse to believe that's going to happen. Dude, these injury, this is like at best this is like a three week injury. And usually in the regular season somebody Steph age we be talking about a month and change on this one.
- [53:41]
Rob Mahoney
Also someone who plays Steph Curry stop and start basketball. That's. That's tough on the old hammies.
- [53:47]
Wosny Lambre
I don't think Steph's going to be back for this series. Guys. Like, I know it's a good idea for them to say it to like keep the pressure on Minnesota. I don't think the guy's going to be back now. Can they still beat Minnesota? Sure seemed like it in game one.
- [54:03]
Rob Mahoney
I'd say Minnesota felt the pressure regardless of the announcement.
- [54:07]
Wosny Lambre
That was sure seemed. Seemed like it. Steph Amazing. 13 points in 13 minutes to start the game. He looked incredible. I was like, wait a minute, are these guys is going to smoke these guys this series? So I, I, I mean, look, I, I would love for Steph to have a miraculous comeback. It just feels like hamstring is like one of the most common injuries in sports, you know, and like guys don't just take a week off after a hamstring strain. Like that's never been the case. So why would I think he's going to be back for Game 5? And I have enough respect for Minnesota's talent in coaching that they're probably going to beat a diminished Golden State warriors. But maybe, you know, I would love to be wrong about this.
- [54:50]
Rob Mahoney
This is the cost for us. You know, we met the devil at the crossroads. We gave him Steph's hamstring in exchange for all these buzzer beaters, all these crazy series, and this is the one we got to forfeit, unfortunately. It was looking like a great series. I was, I was really looking forward to Steph torching those guys. So in the way that he did in those opening minutes was that you laid out like it looked like he was going to get whatever he wanted against a really elite defense. And to see that push and pull was going to be so much fun. Now instead we have to see if the Wolves can kind of get out of their own way and if they can calm down enough to execute against a really high level defense with or without Steph, you know, and maybe even some cases better without Steph. Not to say that Steph's a bad defender, but you replace him with, you know, a murderer's row of guys who are going to come with a ton of energy and are going to be flying around the court in a totally different way. It changes the dynamic of the scene. You know, the spotlight is on Ant now to show that he can do again to the warriors what he did against a much like a fundamentally different, and I would say ultimately softer Lakers defense. Right. That was a different challenge in order to pick them apart. This is going to be a tough team to pick apart.
- [55:55]
Justin Barrier
12 and 76 from three over the past two games. That is an NBA record. Which when they told Ant about that after the game, he was more startled than anything.
- [56:05]
Wosny Lambre
He was mortified.
- [56:06]
Rob Mahoney
The eyes popped out of his head.
- [56:10]
Justin Barrier
I don't know. I feel like there's like a non zero possibility that the Wolves are going to play some of the most ugly games that we've seen this postseason and then make the NBA Finals. This is all of a sudden in play.
- [56:21]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah. And you know the warriors are highly motivated. We know Draymond absolutely detests and hates Rudy Gobert. We know that the freaking coach is already crying. He's doing his Darryl Morey. Send the clips of.
- [56:37]
Rob Mahoney
They're all doing it. To be fair, Kerr's doing it to everybody, blah, blah, blah.
- [56:41]
Wosny Lambre
But don't admit it in public. That's nasty work. Just like, you're way bigger than the Warriors. Beat them up, man. Get the position. Stop crying, man. No excuses. Play like a champion. But they played so horrible in game one.
- [56:56]
Rob Mahoney
So bad.
- [56:57]
Wosny Lambre
It was horrible. They just have to play, like, kind of better and win. And they'll win.
- [57:03]
Justin Barrier
Let me ask you this. What would be more surprising, The Wolves making the finals or the Indiana Pacers making the finals?
- [57:09]
Rob Mahoney
At this point, you already know the answer.
- [57:12]
Wosny Lambre
Oh, no, it's the Wolves. It's definitely the Wolves. It's definitely the Wolves. It's definitely the Wolves.
- [57:16]
Justin Barrier
Rob, how is the. Your corn boys group chat right now is just like a million messages per game.
- [57:27]
Rob Mahoney
I guess it's the people of Indiana.
- [57:29]
Justin Barrier
Is that him and his. His delegates.
- [57:32]
Wosny Lambre
Is Corn affiliated with Indiana? Is that Iowa? Is it both? It's everybody in the Midwest, but I.
- [57:38]
Rob Mahoney
Think there's some resistance to it. I don't think it's like a. I think, you know, it's a pushback against a common trope. They're separating themselves from the corn, and now they're just the Sirs, you know, now. Now they're just establishing themselves in a totally different way. And I gotta say, as a Pacers believer, nothing. I have nothing more to add on the matter. I'm just going to sit back, watch historic Comebacks, watch incredible Tyrese Halliburton performances. I'm just going to sip on my coffee over here. I'm just having a great time.
- [58:05]
Wosny Lambre
So, like, you guys, when I'm out and, you know, around people who know what I do for work, they want to lay their basketball takes on me. And I got into multiple Tyrese Halliburton, let's call them, discussions over the weekend. And people are just like, oh, he's not that good. He's got a bunch of dogs on his team. The team is so beautifully constructed. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, bro, since.
- [58:32]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, guys, I love Aaron Neesmith, but come on.
- [58:35]
Wosny Lambre
That's what I'm saying. I'm like, bro, like, since when did people just love Nemhard and Neesmith and Miles Turner Again, guys, that we've been bigging up for like two, three years now.
- [58:46]
Rob Mahoney
Really good players.
- [58:47]
Wosny Lambre
Like, stop it. Halliburton, like that comeback, man, some of the stuff that I think is just goes underappreciated is the like, as soon as that guy comes open at the three point line, Halliburton is whipping this thing to these guys, man. Like, as soon as he sees the crack in the defense, he is finding the angle. It's like, it's really cool to watch. And then, you know, of course, because people love buckets. It's like, oh, he don't get no buckets. He don't get no buckets. And then what does he do? Hits a step back three to win the game. After an incredible comeback. Just one of the wildest. To me, that's actually the worst one of all.
- [59:29]
Rob Mahoney
Of all the comebacks, all the crazy.
- [59:31]
Wosny Lambre
Endings, that was the worst one.
- [59:33]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, they were up 7 with like 40 seconds left. Again, I say again, for the Pacer's perspective, making a comeback like that again.
- [59:39]
Wosny Lambre
Somehow, like, this was just no excuse for like that inbound where they just basically threw it right to Nemhard, who again shouts to him, he's battling, but like, what the hell, people? But Halliburton has been incredible, man. He has been amazing on that point.
- [60:00]
Justin Barrier
Carson Braber tweeted this out. Tyrese Halliburton is 10 for 11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes this year. And now someone also like found the clips of those shots and have to say a lot of them are just like, weird as hell. And I do, I'm starting to wonder if, like, Halliburton is so weird that he always excels in particularly weird situations like your own. Miss off of a free throw, step back into a three push shot. Obviously looks awful, but yeah, wins the game.
- [60:32]
Rob Mahoney
Well, that was the thing with him in the draft too was like, again, the push shot looks a little weird and therefore it must not be translatable. He's not an eye popping athlete and therefore it must not be translatable. It's all translated pretty well, you know, to playoff basketball in particular. Like, he just gets to this stage and wins games.
- [60:49]
Wosny Lambre
So what I think about with Halliburton's game, it's like, you know, when Russ is pushing the ball for the Aaron Gordon three, everybody's just convinced that he's going to ram himself into the defenders at the paint because, like, we've just been conditioned to predict what Russ is going to do when Halliburton has The ball. Nobody knows what the fuck's about to happen. Like, and it turns out that's an advantage as an offensive player when you're not predictable. And you know, I get it. He is a hell of a shit talker. His dad was really obnoxious to our nice, you know, former MVP Giannis at to Kumpo. It can feel sometimes that the Pacers are like the most ridiculous front running team ever. But guess what? They've been coming back, now they're not.
- [61:37]
Justin Barrier
It's different when they're in front. It's different when they're in the front like this. Yeah, I'll say this. I think we had talked about the Cavs as the team that, like, if we were to pick between them and the Celtics, we would say Celtics, gut check. But the Cavs have positioned themselves well enough to pounce on the Celtics if something were to happen, if the injuries were to mount. I feel the same way about the Pacers in regard to this Cavs team where the injuries are mounting and the Cavs, the Pacers are just solid as hell. Like, I think the talent on paper wouldn't just jump off the page, but they have done such a good job of making the most of their available resources and just like developing guys to the point where they're just like well rounded in a way that goes unappreciated. The physicality aspect, the defensive aspect has been there pushing a team like the Cavs, who should be the one doing that to them considering their personnel.
- [62:27]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean they just play good, smart two way basketball. And you're right, they do have a really deep rotation full of capable guys and there's not a lot of excess there. There's not a lot of players who don't understand their roles. Like there's just guys like Neesmith and Nempard who are going all out for every loose ball, for every possession, for every opportunity. Like they know how to maximize the possession game of playoff basketball. And it does suck that to this point we haven't gotten Darius Garland in the series to this point. You know, Evan Mobley's future in it, DeAndre Hunter's future in it. We'll have to wait and see if those guys are able to come back or not. I also think it just, it does suck that. Yes, we get this, like just an all time playoff shot and moment from Tyrese Halliburton. A crazy, crazy comeback in a. In a playoff of crazy comebacks and then lost a time. Was Donovan Mitchell being relentless as hell all game, like running Himself into the ground, hitting the floor on like, driving, driving, driving, driving, driving. Given all of these losses to. To the rot, knowing that he has to carry as much as he did and damn near did, and then they just lose and he has 48 points and we're going to. For like the 48 points is going to get wiped off the record relative to that shot, which is going to live on in highlight reels forever.
- [63:39]
Justin Barrier
I found myself during that game, too, wondering if Donovan Mitchell just had like an extra inch or two on his wingspan. Like, if he just went to Turkey and they just stretched him out a little bit, like, would he just be averaging 50 in these playoffs? Because his ability to split the double and then just power his way to the basketball, absorb contact and then finish is so good. If he just had an extra bit of length to go under and just like finish a lot of those plays, he would have had 60 in that game.
- [64:05]
Wosny Lambre
Wait, wait, wait. So Turkey is giving men new hairlines and adding inches to their wingspan.
- [64:15]
Rob Mahoney
Aren't we doing that in this? I think we're doing that in the States where you can just get your legs lengthened. Right. Like, they'll break the bone and put in the rod and have it grow back, chop. Why couldn't you do it with your eyes?
- [64:25]
Wosny Lambre
Why do that when you could just lie on hinge? This is like everybody else.
- [64:29]
Rob Mahoney
Well, you can't lie on national tv. People will see the truth.
- [64:32]
Justin Barrier
You know, let me tell you, not your guy here, six foot.
- [64:36]
Rob Mahoney
You're an ethical Hooper on hinge.
- [64:39]
Justin Barrier
Exactly. I could prove it. I'll bring a tape measure if I have to.
- [64:43]
Wosny Lambre
By the way, to Justin's point, you got to give it up to Kevin Pritchard for the roster construction of this team, the financial constraints that they're under. And Herb Simon as an owner has never believed in tearing things down to the studs and being this rebuild process oriented type of team. They've never tanked. For real. And he's built up just by getting a coach, building an identity, doing a bold trade. It was bold at the time when they got Halliburton. And now just leaning into that identity and just constantly just adding these kids that fit perfectly into what they want to do. Obie Toppin was a cast off, and now every time this guy shoots a three, I'm convinced it's going in. Dude, he was not a shooter in New York. Nobody knew this was coming from him. But he did. You know, he fit that sort of running gun mentality, high energy, high pace kind of guy. I just, you know, producer Zay talks about niece. Smith could not make a shot when he was in Boston. He was a cast off, an afterthought. He's now a key ingredient to everything they do on this team.
- [65:58]
Rob Mahoney
The Pacers were laughed at for only getting Aaron Neesmith back for Malcolm Brogdon. Right? Like, remember those were the stakes of those. Just like all you got back was this guy who can't even play for the Celtics. He's become a consummate role player, dude.
- [66:11]
Wosny Lambre
And he's indispensable.
- [66:13]
Rob Mahoney
Let me say that put back dunk was crazy gnarly like he. And he has, he has playoff moments like that all the time. Just pure effort. Plays that other guys can't make, won't make, don't make, I don't care. Aaron D. Smith makes them.
- [66:26]
Justin Barrier
They are now team. This is why you play the games. It's like things can happen and opportunities can present themselves. And here they are again on the precipice of making another Eastern Conference finals. I would have said if they, if they do indeed do that, I would have said like, oh wow, what a weird blip in history. But now it's looking more like, you know, maybe they might be onto something. Another one or two of those moves and they could be a pretty consistent presence there. So we'll see. Pacers, Wolves, NBA Finals on NBA tv.
- [66:55]
Rob Mahoney
Nothing would throw me more honestly. Fantastic.
- [66:58]
Wosny Lambre
I'm down, but I'm not, I'm not.
- [67:01]
Rob Mahoney
Ready to give up on like, give up this Thunder team. I love watching them. Whether they're stomping people, I just.
- [67:05]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, no, the Thunder, they again, all the stuff that people were attracted to, like the amount of guys they play, the ferocity with which they play with the effort level, that is just insane. But they also have an MVP on their team. It's not like. And Houston, man, I thought they gave a valiant effort, especially on defense. These guys were gamers, played hard, bludgeoning people on the boards, all of that stuff. But they don't got an mvp, right? And the Thunder have all of that gritty blue collar lunch pail kind of stuff and the sexy stuff as well. That's what I think separates them from the pack right now.
- [67:48]
Rob Mahoney
I don't have a vested interest in who wins any of these series really, but I kind of wanted the Rockets to beat the warriors because I wanted was to have to come on the pod and apologize to regular season basketball.
- [67:59]
Wosny Lambre
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [68:02]
Rob Mahoney
But I'm just going to put the Thunder as the new champions. Or really, maybe they were always the champions of regular season basketball and we'll see if they're the champions of the playoffs, too. But they've taken this shit seriously from the start, and I respect the hell out of that.
- [68:15]
Wosny Lambre
We respect the regular season. We it's just not predictive of playoff results, that's all.
- [68:19]
Justin Barrier
We did a hundred fucking pods in the regular season. If anyone respects the regular season, it is us.
- [68:25]
Wosny Lambre
We respect the regular season. Exactly.
- [68:29]
Justin Barrier
All right, let's wrap it there. We'll be back Saturday night into Sunday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely, thank you to Ben Cruz for staying up with us. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 + and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18+ and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-50 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.