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The Knicks Pull Off a Stunning, Historic Comeback to Win Game 4 | Group Chat
01:01:56
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier, and joining me, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle, man, what's going on? What did we just witness?
- [00:26]
B
I'm still not sure, but do we want to open with like 20 to 30 on your garden before we get to the Garden?
- [00:31]
C
Or Yuzu substituting for Citrus as you guys. It's good talk, it's good chatter.
- [00:36]
A
We could, but my brain is just a replay of go New York, Go New York, Go on a complete loop because I can't actually put thoughts together because we first witnessed one of the historic shooting performances in the first half and then that gave way to one of the biggest finals comebacks we've ever seen.
- [00:55]
B
Holy.
- [00:55]
A
Rob, why don't we just go around the horn saying holy in different ways?
- [00:59]
C
Holy, holy, holy, holy.
- [01:04]
B
I. I think this is genuinely the most insane playoff game of my lifetime. Certainly of my sentient basketball lifetime, for all the reasons you just described. Like, and the Knicks had every chance, after embarrassing themselves in the first half in front of Adam Sandler and the Heim sisters and everybody to just like pack this thing in. Well, yeah, I mean, choose a crowd. The majority. The quorum of Heim sisters, they could have just like packed it in and played for game five. And instead they took a stand and did something genuinely unthinkable with all time resolve. Like, it is. It's always crazy watching basketball history happen right in front of you. But OG an adobe. Welcome to basketball history.
- [01:44]
C
Yeah, I mean, that's going to be a mural somewhere in one of the boroughs. I would assume just him. Like, you know, we can get into the details of the play, but I mean, like in the this, in this game, within this game, we saw two of the most epic meltdown crash outs that I've seen in recent memory. I mean, should we just go half by half, like, start? Because there was two crazy stories within.
- [02:07]
A
Yeah, I know, I know. Why don't we start with the end and let's start with that final play. Because as I was going through it, I had two pretty bold reactions. One was like, what is Jalen Brunson doing? Because he took an ISO ball play on the first possession before that, and, and then he kind of pulls up from pretty deep. But then when I see OG kind of have a free reign to the rim, I was like, was that planned in advance that he was putting it up there in order to get the put back? And having said that, where are the bodies on OG Pretty much the entire game? You're like, oh, OG and an OBI open again, wide open and he's just drilling shot after shot for shot and
- [02:40]
B
he's just wide open.
- [02:42]
A
Free rein to the rim and nobody boxes him out. I'm just like, how, how so many times did they blow that?
- [02:47]
B
Well, I'm not looking at the box score right now. I'm not convinced he has missed a three at any point in this series. From the corners, it just feels as automatic as it has ever felt. But yeah, the strategic decision to not have a defender on the inbounder, you kind of understand it conceptually in a one point game, right? Like something that's this close, you want to have the extra body to kind of roam the paint. You want to maybe have some flexibility if you're going to be switching this much to opportunistically double, but good lord, you got to put a body on that guy. And in the spurs defense, OG Anobi just like an, an a hundredth percentile effort to sprint in and get a hand on that ball in the first place. Out tipping. I think it was Dylan Harper and Devin Vassell who were basically there to scoop it up. If OG had been like a half a, a fraction of a second late on that play.
- [03:30]
C
Yeah, you gotta know that in that situation, granted they'd called it, you know, there had been some, some loose ball fouls on the offensive glass for, you know, Carter Bryant trucking cat throughout the, you know, this game in the past game been a lot of trucking going on, but you had to kind of. They were watching the ball fly through the air. Granted the play, the sequence before that, Josh Hart, you know, speaks to the speed of the NBA game. That Josh Hart just for a moment watched a shot in the air and, and, and Castle swooped in and got an offensive rebound that was. He almost converted, which would have been cataclysmic for New York considering all the effort they put in coming back. But I thought Fox was just kind of treat. They should have just sent an onslaught to the glass and just hit somebody. Because I don't think they were going to call something in that situation. You've got to have the pres. And maybe they were tired, I don't know, maybe there were a lot of mental lapses in that second half, but I thought that they would have gone to the glass harder as, as a unit.
- [04:24]
B
Yeah, well, and to wind it back a little bit, was it not OG who also got the stop on de' Aaron Fox on that leak out in transition as well?
- [04:31]
C
Why did, why did Fox try that? Of all the people to try that against. That was the one. I was like, dude, you gotta like, pull this out. Like, maybe he thought he was gonna get fouled, but I didn't like anyone.
- [04:43]
A
Yeah, like, why didn't he just pull it out in ways clock or at least force a follow? A couple seconds later, it's just like. And then that gave way to the Alvarado just almost getting a backcourt violation. And we all learned like, that your body can go back there, but the ball does not.
- [04:55]
B
That was crazy.
- [04:55]
C
He clearly knew the rule. He was a small guy.
- [04:59]
A
I got it now. Pressure that hard.
- [05:02]
B
This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's international tournament is here, and Ferrero is going all in. Enter for your shot at a range of prizes just by buying your favorites like Tic Tac Fresh Mints, Cool Minty and Simple. Or Halo Top Ice Cream loaded with crave worthy mix ins in every bite and half the calories of leading competitors. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1,000,000. Official rules apply. Learn more at goallinandwin.com
- [05:33]
A
Art I assume he just has that, like, dictionary definition in his. In his mind here.
- [05:37]
B
I think Dear and Fox's decision making down the stretch of this game was absolutely maddening. You know, he is supposed to be the calming influence for the Spurs. He's supposed to be the steady hand in these situations. They give him the ball over Castle and Harper in some of these situations. For one, it's just really clear that he's too much of a make or miss jump shooter to really occupy that role for this team. Like, he doesn't have the stability to drive and finish or even really draw contact in a way that you want your lead guard to in that moment. But in this spot specifically, I mean, they get the tap out in transition. It is a crazy loose ball. I think the play ends up ending at like 11 seconds. Easily could have dribbled it out and drained clock. Easily could have kind of taken the chance to like, actually calm things down. And instead I would say he makes the Drew Holiday play from the Bucs championship run. Remember Drew throw through that crazy alley oop to Giannis that if he misses is an infamous play. They didn't miss. Darren Fox does. And like now I think this has to hang around him. Like, this game was in his hands maybe more than anybody else's, and he blew it. He threw it away.
- [06:42]
C
I think you saw the tide shift. Really? I. I tweeted this out. I mean, the hot shooting of the first half, I think, just gave them, you know, the malaise and the fog that the Knicks were wandering around in where they were trying to find the. Find the ground, find their resolve, find their composure, their will to fight back. During that time, the spurs were playing so loose that it just got a little too loose. That sequence at the start of the third quarter where five. One of my friends that I, you know, you have your people. You kind of. I don't know if you all are this way or you all seem like you're really dialed in. I. I mean, I have my people. I. I have ongoing dialogues with during the game, and I. I texted back. Well, I text you guys. You don't always answer. So I'm just, like, barking up the wrong text friend tree here.
- [07:26]
A
We're locked in, man.
- [07:28]
C
Sticks in the mud at once. Yeah, well, I'm just kind of. But anyway, so, I mean, I was texting him, and I. It was pretty hilarious because I was like, man, that was a terrible shot, the champagne one.
- [07:38]
A
And then.
- [07:38]
C
And then I was like, ooh, that's two straight bad threes in a row. Three straight in a row. Four straight in a row. Five in a row. And as that's going on, like, the Knicks are slowly kind of like, going from this, like, melted goo on the court at msg, and suddenly they took physical form again, and they were like, wait a minute. We can. You know, I thought that was the turning point. That was the. That was when the. The shift happened in the game, in my opinion.
- [08:02]
A
Yeah. I want to get into this more in detail, but we have a weirdly timed break that we need to turn to right now, so why don't we all.
- [08:08]
B
You kid me.
- [08:10]
A
Just take a breather. We'll be right back.
- [08:14]
B
This episode of the Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero. Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats, like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling. Or Keebler Chips deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks. Or Ferrero Rocher squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1 million. Official rules apply. Learn more at Go all in and win.com all right, so as Kyle was
- [08:50]
A
kind of alluding to before the break there, the spurs, despite the hot shooting in the first half, 4 for 20 in the third quarter, just in totality in that third quarter. And then you had the late mistakes that we mentioned, even the final play. Where was Harper? I believe inbounding to Castle. The ball was just like. Like too low for him to even get a shot up from there. As much as this was a historic, miraculous Knicks comeback, and we got to give them all the credit. They deserve all the credit. It kind of was the spurs melting down in a way that I've never seen, but I guess we should expect to a certain degree for a team this young and that has proven in these sort of tight situations that, like, the Knicks really do have that edge there.
- [09:30]
B
I mean, it takes two to make history. Like, you need the historic implosion to make the historic comeback. I thought the only moments where the spurs looked like they were in control in the second half were there were a couple of Dylan Harper drives that were very direct, like straight downhill. He felt in control. I know we. We. I mean, just our parodies of ourselves when talking about Dylan Harper a lot of the time. But bumping through OG and Anobi for just like an easy turnaround, not a normal thing. And so I don't think we have to be normal about it. Those possessions, I thought were good. And then there were like the Wemby literally batting the ball to himself off the rim. Possessions that felt like he had attacked, like a tangible advantage, that he was flexing to get some interior scoring. Other than that, they really just were chucking threes out here. And it felt like as soon as the shot stopped falling, not only did they not have any other plan, they had kind of let go of the rope in terms of forcing any other issue, that they just started settling for even more shots. Even more shots. And not to point the finger at only Fox again, but I thought he was one of the worst culprits about settling for some of those where at least the other guys, it was the result of action. Right. It's like you're kicking out to an open shooter. Some of those looks for the champagne types I thought were at least the kind of shots that were going for them in the first half that built the lead in the first place. Instead, they just kind of ended up burying the spurs too.
- [10:45]
C
Yeah, I need to go back and rewatch it. But it did. Were those off paint touches? Because a few of them didn't feel like they were like on.
- [10:51]
B
Some of them weren't.
- [10:52]
C
When I was watching live, where I felt like the spurs kind of forgot where the tension and release is within the way that they play they weren't getting to the basket, and the Knicks did. I mean, they shut off the water and I just felt like their. Their discipline to execute, to get into the paint has been the thing that swung the momentum in their direction to begin in game three. And then in game four, they come out and just stomp a mud hole in the. In the first half. And then I thought they just got away from and the Knicks. That's a credit to the Knicks that they are such a good, you know, sound defensive team, schematically, that they were doing a great job keeping out them out of the paint. And the spurs found some ways to do that. There was one play that they kept running. I. I didn't know really what the name of it was, but it was like a delayed stagger where the second screen was Wimanyama, and he would come up and instead. Instead of setting it immediately where Castle was running off of it, he would run off of the first one, have a head of steam. Wimby would come up to set the second screen and then. And just slip it or ghost it. And he got in the paint. There was. So there were a lot of little dials that they had turned. And when they kind of just were settling for the threes, I felt like that was them getting away from the thing that had kind of given them the upper hand on the Knicks. And the Knicks took advantage of it
- [12:05]
B
and roared back very much so.
- [12:08]
A
So 14 made threes in the first half. That is a record in the finals for a half. San Antonio also had 76 points in the first half. That's a record for a road team in the first half in the finals. But you guys are right. It seemed like they were just too enamored with the perimeter shot. They kept just chucking it up there. And I also felt like that spurred some of the ball movement that we've seen the Knicks kind of thrive off of thus far. Like broken plays giving way to, like, slow breaks the other way. And then everyone's scrambling and just seemed like the ball started to ping in the way that the Knicks have just thrived off of this entire postseason. 13, 0 run in that third quarter. Castle has the fourth foul. I think that also opened the floodgates a little bit. But still in that fourth quarter, Rob, like, it was still within reach. It was like 15 points. And it just didn't feel like the Knicks were getting over that hump. I was waiting for them to go for a. With a little bit more offensive leaning lineup, and I was ready to come on this Podcast being like, oh, man, like, you can't just trade baskets when you're down this much. Like, why aren't they just, like, trying to do more of that? I feel like Alvarado, in those sort of, like, lineups where they were essentially five out cat started playing better. But like Alvarado and, like, being opportunistic, making shots when they referred to him, when they blitzed Brunson, like, I felt like that was the deciding factor of, like, taking the comeback to that next level.
- [13:23]
B
Yes. I think the blitzing, especially, like, you just need one more ball handler on the floor in those situations. And I thought this wasn't the best Josh Hart game as far as, like, being that kind of pressure release. Kat had such a weird night in the early foul trouble and then just like, really tentative in some other spots as well. Like, he wasn't exactly the answer, as that goes. I just can't. I can't wait for the continued hand wringing over the Jalen Brunson hero ball experience. The hero ball that spurred the Knicks in the third quarter, that forced the traps that ultimately they were playing out of down the stretch.
- [13:53]
C
I don't know.
- [13:53]
B
It turns out this guy's pretty good.
- [13:55]
A
Well, those last two possessions, though, pretty, pretty dicey, I think.
- [13:59]
B
Look, you got to dance with the one run who brung you, you know, like, he got them there. I think he deserves those shots.
- [14:05]
C
Josh Hart needs to buy OG a car.
- [14:07]
B
Oh, my God.
- [14:08]
C
Literally a car. Like, not dinner, not wine. Because those Knicks moments live forever. You want to ask Carl, you know, Patrick Ewing about missing that float, that finger roll in the lane, that shit lives forever. And if. If Josh Hart's blown transition layup that could have taken the lead, that would have been an all time matza ball hanging out. And OG Saved his ass.
- [14:31]
B
And losing Castle on top of it on that offensive rebound.
- [14:34]
C
Like, two of you're right. Yeah.
- [14:35]
B
If you just want to run down the last couple minutes in terms of some of the insane things that happened, One of the reasons I think Brunson deserves some of those final looks, the step up three he hit over Wimy for me, was the oh moment of the comeback. It's like, oh, not only is this real, this is the exact kind of crazy shot you have to hit to pull this off. You got the Josh Hart smoked layup in transition, spurs up one. Wemby goes to the line, bricks both free throws. I mean, just excruciating in retrospect. You got the Castle Josh Hart play and Fox blowing it in transition. With OG saving it and then the OG put back on top of it. I mean it's just crazy on. Crazy on crazy all the way down.
- [15:12]
C
The Cat 32 was crazy. Yeah.
- [15:15]
A
Can we talk about Brunson though, just please, toward the end there, because I hear what you're saying where he kind of is the guy that they turn to in those moments, but it just felt like Cat getting past the foul trouble and really being engaged in that fourth quarter unlike he had been before. I think like when he hit that three, those were their his first fourth quarter points this entire series, which is to think it just felt like things were moving in a way that fits, like their personality. This is how they've rattled off so many wins this postseason. You were fine with the two Brunson late buckets, the one going at Wemby late and then the deeper three because he was out there. Like he wasn't quite Lillard logo style, but like he was, he was there and it was quick. And so I don't know, I. I didn't love the two looks that they got ultimately there.
- [16:01]
B
They weren't the best that Brunson manufactured. I mean, you could even see on one of them like he had to pass out of it to even reset the play in the first place. He wasn't getting the same kind of separation he had been earlier in the game. But even so much of that good stuff they were generating driving kick or getting it too cat to maneuver out of was coming off of a Brunson drive in the first place in a lot of those sequences. And so I still want the ball in his hands in those moments. And I think at the way he played in this game, the way he scored, the way he balanced the attacking, but also setting other guys up. I'm good with the premise. I'm not saying the shots are completely perfect or exactly the look you want under those circumstances, but I mean you just have to make some of those to pull off games like this. And sometimes when you're in the midst of, of an all time comeback, you just have to make some of these improbable shots. You just have to pull some of those rabbits out of your hat. I liked enough of what Brunson was setting up. The end result of those last two looks weren't the best. They weren't ideal. They weren't the exact shots you want even under those circumstances. But he generated so much great action for them all throughout the second half and including some of the best stuff that Katt was facilitating or the best Stuff that OG ended up converting. Those plays usually started with Brunson either beating a guy one on one off the dribble, or passing well out of the trap to get the other Knicks going in the first place.
- [17:13]
C
I don't think they had any choice but to go that direction. You know the time that it takes to. For Brunson to get in. You're weighing the time that it takes Brunson to get to his spots or whether you're playing pitch and catch and then trying to get to your spot versus the fact that the Knicks have just been forced to. Now, granted, they have the ability to play longer in the clock than any team that the spurs have played in the playoffs this far versus you know how long it takes Brunson to do this. This is a stat I kind of pulled up. So of the. Of the spurs opponents in the playoffs, teams that have had possessions of five passes or more, the Knicks are by far producing the most. And let's see, the Highest is at 1.355 points per possession. Second highest is the Thunder at 1.03. So significantly better. So I'm just saying that they, they weren't going to be able to play that game and play the Blender game and chew up time because the math just didn't work like. So it was either they were going to have to get like 50 transition buckets, which I haven't checked it. They might. I don't think they got 50, but. Or anywhere close. But I think they had to kind of take a different route to kind of make that happen.
- [18:22]
A
So they had those little like clips in between like the coaches in the locker room. And after, I believe the spurs went up 12 2. Cat gets the two fouls. We could talk about the fouls and then the refs and Wemby and all that stuff. It's going to be another hour of this podcast. But there was the, like inside the locker room before the game and Mike Brown's literally like, it's all about the start of the game. This is the. It all comes down to how you start. You got to start fast because that's going to dictate how this goes. And obviously the spurs just completely clobbered things going. Did it just seem like to you guys it was just the shots just unbelievable. Like the fouls on Cat plus the, the unbelievable shot making for the spurs or were they doing something in order to get out to that gigantic lead?
- [19:05]
B
The shot making was clearly historic and unbelievable, but honestly, those looks have been there for the Spurs. They Were there in game three. You could see in game three, I thought Castle and Fox came out looking for that exact same read and were hitting it and hitting it and hitting it. The spurs just weren't converting those open threes. And so this time they were hitting those shots. Really what a lot of it is is the way the Knicks are trying to defend the pick and roll is this high tag and recover that requires them to ease in from the weak side to clog the lane so Wemby doesn't get a free run at the rim. And so then like Devon Vesel, Julian Shempen, Dylan Harper, sometimes whoever's out there, somebody's wide open on the weak side. And the spurs seem absolutely dialed in on that look over and over and over and over. And it was just punishing. But it was punishing in a very like a predictable way given the way that the Knicks have been guarding in this series.
- [19:53]
C
Yeah, I mean it's a combination of. You could really see. And I was ready to come on. Speaking of things, we were ready to talk about. I was ready to talk about how the spurs had figured out how to really stress the weak links in the chain for them. Whether it be Shamet or Brunson. They were putting Brunson in all kinds of. Yes, honestly at times mean spirited off ball screens to get to get Dylan Harper on him. Dylan Harper had moments where I was again was ready to come on here and talk about how Dwayne Wade 2.0 is upon us a bigger version. And he still is amazing that those things are still all valid. But yeah, they, they were doing a great job finding those. And in game three you were talking about how those shots were there. I think the they that was the difference between the balloon lead and the in the close game that we saw in game three. And I just thought do we want to talk about the call? Because on one hand I was relieved. I was dreading talking about the officials because it just seemed like it was going to be the thing that sucked the life out of the fun of this basketball game. But I mean it did affect the beginning of the game and at this
- [20:53]
A
point like clearly probably would have murdered somebody.
- [20:56]
B
Oh yeah. If it had been a one possession
- [20:58]
C
game and we were probably.
- [21:03]
A
It's getting brutal out there. Just like leave Brian Windhorst alone this year, please. Or just like anybody in his first families.
- [21:09]
B
Yeah.
- [21:10]
C
Did you think you were watching a. A sketch when I. I honestly thought it had to be a setup when like a doughy white guy in an Adidas era Tim Duncan jersey with the wide shoulders and cargo khaki shorts was proudly walking down the street. I thought it looked like the. The Larry Bird bit from well, blanking. Giancarlo Esposito, Spike Lee, whatever. It just looked like a sketch. I was like, from do the right Thing. Yes. I was like, that's the most stereotypical kick my ass dude where he might be listening show. I'm sorry. I just thought it was like the most. I thought it was a setup at first. I was like, that's. That's Tues.
- [21:48]
A
Turning on Netflix, watching group chat.
- [21:51]
C
I was just shocked by that video.
- [21:53]
B
I hope that guy's okay. But I'm with you in the sense of, like, I just don't know what is real anymore, you know?
- [21:57]
C
Like, he was like the false Tim Duncan Adidas. There a white.
- [22:01]
B
I was like, what are you doing? Look, in a world where my Christian's Dior guy is a false flag, I'm just willing to believe anything.
- [22:08]
A
Wait, what?
- [22:09]
B
We can't even get into it.
- [22:11]
A
That guy was a plant.
- [22:12]
B
Everything is a plant now.
- [22:13]
A
No, I love that guy.
- [22:17]
B
I'm sorry. Christian Dior again. We can't even go that far.
- [22:22]
C
Let's just designer.
- [22:23]
A
Okay? My bagels Jewish.
- [22:26]
B
My mayor's Muslim. My Christian's Dior Nixon 4.
- [22:30]
C
Oh, the street poet.
- [22:32]
B
Who supposedly came up with that? I don't know. I'm under the impression based on the supplementary materials and evidence that maybe that guy is a plant.
- [22:40]
A
If I couldn't have been shocked one more time.
- [22:43]
B
I know. I'm sorry.
- [22:44]
A
Damn. No, but I think the big issue just with the refs this entire series is just the consistency. If you're gonna go overboard and not. And call everything, that's that's one thing. Or if you're not going to call anything, that's another thing. It's just the game to game fluctuations where it's like, yes, Carl Anthony Towns was hooking Wemby. He does it all the time. They all do it all the time. They're all Jocelyn. They're all doing that. It's a finals physical game. And, like, I just don't know how you could pick and choose this one over some of the ones in the past. Especially coming off of what we saw in the last game with Wemby throttling Jalen Brunson. I have to wonder, like, maybe they were over correcting at the start because of that. I don't know. But just like, it's been bad. The refereeing has been bad thus far in the Finals.
- [23:28]
B
Yeah, they just missed a lot of stuff, especially in that first half. I wouldn't even go as far as to say it's like tilted in one direction or another. The Knicks were still getting a lot of calls too, and had a dramatic free throw advantage. But like the Luke Cornet non goaltend. That was awful. Like, that was such a terrible decision. I was prepared to just punt all that stuff in the trash because at the point where you're allowing the spurs to shoot 65% from the field with like zero or maybe one turnover, I just don't think the officiating is having that big of an impact on the game. Clearly it got much closer than that. Clearly the Knicks willed themselves into it and mercifully, they are so good in the clutch, we don't even need to worry about it from the winning and losing perspective, because I think the Knicks would probably be the team with the greater grievance as far as all that stuff goes if somebody were to make the complaint about it. But New York has shown if the game is close, they probably will just go out and grab it. And that's certainly what ended up happening.
- [24:23]
C
Yeah, and I understand the. The. From the perspective of if you're the Knicks and you're just thinking, you know, because they. I mean, they obviously let it affect the way they were playing.
- [24:32]
B
They lost their minds.
- [24:34]
C
They did. I mean, they melted down. Cat at one point was like the. The play where he was coming across the lane and just like you could see him just sort of. You could tell how exasperated he was. And he's just falling into people and just his arms are going everywhere and everything.
- [24:46]
A
Like that Alvarado takedown where he didn't get in the first time. So he just tried like a judo move to try to bring him down.
- [24:53]
C
Very effective. I was shocked. That wasn't. I mean, that was like intense that I was surprised by that. That wasn't. That was not a basketball play. I mean, it was around and lifted his leg off the ground.
- [25:05]
A
I thought that was benefit of being a small guy.
- [25:07]
B
It's true.
- [25:07]
A
I'm.
- [25:08]
C
I'm glad that that didn't. Didn't. My kind of thing was. You're right. I mean, the only way for us to, you know, approach this is to look at this of. At. Look at it like this. Where, yes, it was super inconsistent. And going back and watching the games, people got mad at me early on for saying that Carl was hooking up. A lot of hooking, a lot of grabbing, which. This is a common strategy. Ask Isaiah Hartstein, like, this is. This is what they do. This is what you kind of have to do. You got to kind of play in the margins of. In between. Go ahead, Rob.
- [25:35]
B
Not just a common strategy, I would go as far as to say is Carl Anthony Townsend had a mostly very good series. That clamp is basically his signature move. Like, he. He does that specific thing all.
- [25:45]
A
Well.
- [25:46]
C
What I was going to say about that is I think Wimby came into this game.
- [25:50]
A
He.
- [25:50]
C
I think he knew, yeah, I'm going to get myself in the position to get this call. I. He knew it. I was pretty. Because people were like, why didn't he pull his arm out?
- [25:59]
A
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [25:59]
C
The initial pin was there. It was no different than, like, if somebody hit you and you just blah, blah. It's like, why didn't you regain your balance? After he put. It's like the initial thing, he clearly went in there with that mindset. It was. It was tough. And then the plot, the first play of the game, they drove the ball right. And the other thing about this too is that, like, from crew to crew, we've all seen this. It's not consistent. And, and I, when I was looking down the horizon, I was like, the Zarba crew's coming in here and this is probably what's going to happen. I thought that it was going to favor the spurs at the beginning. It did. But the credit to the Knicks for getting their composure back after. Because seriously, I mean, for God's sake, Wu Tang played the silence at halftime. What's the flying.
- [26:42]
A
I think this is the thing that's being revealed about Wemby. We all knew that he had some to him. And let just be honest, a lot of the guys from Europe and France just kind of play with this sort of, let's call it an edge when it comes to, like, the in between the line sort of thing. If Rudy Gobert is his, like, mentor. Yeah, there's a lot of Rudy in, like, what Wemby does.
- [27:00]
B
You're saying there's the spirit of Nick Batum hitting Juan Carlos Navarro in the nuts in Wembley.
- [27:05]
A
That's right. But I mean, clearly in the beginning where he's telling Mitchell Robinson that I'm in your head. And it did seem like he was trying to bait him into that flag to start the game. Like, I think he was going in there looking to exacerbate certain things. Maybe he wasn't in the park, like, drawing pretty pictures. Maybe he was plotting out how to fuck with these guys. Pull a little Reggie Miller action going on here.
- [27:29]
B
Machiavelli and Wemby just like pulling puppet strings until guess what? He got all tangled up in him. He just lost track of it in the second half. He was then in his own head.
- [27:37]
C
What a poet. Rob Mahoney. No, this goes to something that Tyler and I made up on a playoff pod one time which is called this fucking guy provision, which is whenever they go back and review a flagrant, if a guy is being this guy, it gets revoked. So if they feel like a guy was kind of being, you know, and, and Wimby had a couple of those where it was like he kind of put his face in there a little bit. That's the thing about. It's just like I can't tell because people getting frustrated with him drawing in the park and things like that. I just, I don't know that there's some. I think that's just who he is. Like, I think he's just kind of Kareem Weird. And I don't think that there's a person like you and I in there that. That is just choosing to be sort of odd or choosing to do these things that seem like. I think that's just. I think that's who he is. But it's hard to excuse. I mean he clearly was going in there trying to game, game the game
- [28:25]
B
a little bit tonight. I feel like he's been pulled. I agree with you. I think he is Korean weird. I think that is his personality type. I think that's the sort of energy that he's bringing to most things. But people almost seem to respond to him as if he is like cardigan wearing, reading Sylvia Plath at the coffee shop, performative male. And I think that's just like a totally different phenotype. That is not energy that he's bringing.
- [28:47]
C
That's a big cardigan we're talking.
- [28:49]
A
I'm not 100 sure I agree with that part of it. It does feel like he does this in a very public showy way, but he's just like a giant person in
- [28:58]
C
the shock of the century. You would think that, Justin.
- [29:01]
A
Well, no, I've been going back and forth in this in my brain because like I. I would typically be super annoyed by this behavior in part. Like, I think if anything I've been dulled by it by the fact that everyone jumped to this conclusion already. Like when Jacoby's out here going on full on diatribes, I'm basically like, I can't live up to this. I might as well Just, you got
- [29:21]
B
to go the other way on that.
- [29:22]
C
Wimby gets fouled more than anybody since Shaq. I mean, I mean, Jokic, too. That's the other thing. And I. Do we agree or disagree with that? I think it's. He, he gets, it's absurd what people get away with doing him. Like, the, the shivers to the back. Like, it's crazy. He shouldn't fly off the handle and elbow somebody in the neck. But, you know, yeah, I, I think
- [29:44]
A
it's, you know, maybe it's because, like, who am I to judge? Like, I'm finding salvation in a couple cucumbers. Like, if Wemby finds that, like, his mind is cleared by just doing these, like, silly things, like going and drawing or like, reading a couple pages, like, who am I to judge that? Right? I think where I really get kind of like, over. Where it goes a little bit overboard is just when I think sports writers, frankly, are probably the ones to blame with where they connect the cause and effect. Where it's like, Wemby quieted his mind by, like, going and taking a bath, and that's how he won game three. It's just like they have you had the, the anecdote floating around today where he just like, walks around in barefoot in order to ground himself. And then there's like the connection where it's like, that's weird to begin with, but it's like, I don't know. Who cares?
- [30:31]
C
I'm barefooted all the time. I grew up in Kentucky.
- [30:33]
D
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- [32:06]
C
Buying something for dad usually goes the
- [32:08]
B
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- [32:09]
C
Guessing, second guessing, ending up with something
- [32:11]
B
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- [32:14]
C
It's the kind of gift he'll actually use.
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B
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C
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- [32:24]
B
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- [32:27]
C
Visit weathertech.com to get your Father's Day gift today. Yeah, that's a true story. So nothing weird about that.
- [32:35]
A
Do you find yourself more grounded than the rest?
- [32:37]
C
Justin, do you want us to ask you about your cucumber? What was that little nugget you dropped there?
- [32:41]
A
No, I think we've done enough garden talk for one week.
- [32:44]
B
But I think you are right though jv like all there's a lot of bait there and we as sportswriters, as media types are incredibly guilty of like you find an interesting detail and it must mean not just something, it must mean the thing like the defining aspect of a player's personality or their compared competitive spirit or whatever it is. So yeah, the cult of Wemby is a little out of control. Some of that is frankly he just puts himself out there in ways that other modern athletes, especially in the NBA really don't. Most of these other guys are so guarded and so yeah, there is something about him that maybe wants you to know about the monks a little bit. Maybe wants you to see him barefoot, maybe wants you to see him in the park sketching whatever that may be. All of that being said, like the subplot as far as all this goes, the this fucking guy provision now of the NBA finals is we are one more flagrant away from Victor Wembanyama being suspended for one of these games. And that is, that's an area where if I were a Knicks fan, I would feel pretty rightly miffed about the game. Three should have been flagrant. Shove on Jalen Brunson. That was just hand waved away by the NBA today. I just do not see how that is an irrelevant non flagrant play.
- [33:52]
A
Yeah. And this is where if I were the Knicks, I would just be an outrage to the league office because yes, once he got this flagrant in this game, I believe in the third quarter for. Was it nailing Cat in the head in the jaw?
- [34:04]
B
Yeah, just like an elbow straight up.
- [34:06]
C
I thought Cat was concussed. Did you see the way his jaw moved?
- [34:09]
B
I mean that's a like, that's a tough hit if you've ever been hit like on the bottom of the chin in basketball. Like it's a sharp, really painful hit.
- [34:16]
C
That's why they wear the strap. Right. Because of concussions in football. Right. Where so your head. I thought that your jaw. Yeah, maybe I'm mistake.
- [34:24]
B
No, I think you're right.
- [34:24]
A
I'm talking to my helmet guy lately, but I'll double check on that one.
- [34:28]
C
Well, that's the thing about Wimby is, is like now you're in this position where how do you control your. His control is amazing. We're gonna, we're gonna have to see how amazing it is because I don't think he meant anything by that play. I think his limbs are just so big. It's like now it's like on a closeout. Oops. My size 50ft just kind of happened to swoop. Like this is going to be really precarious for him going forward.
- [34:50]
A
So he has three now as a result of today's flagrant. Should have four based on the blood the Brunson shovel. And this is now the second time that the NBA goes to the review after the fact. Don't ding him after the fact or add anything to his. His record here. That's bullshit. Like on the one hand, I don't want him suspended for a high stakes game. And I, yeah, I almost wonder if like this only compounds the advantage because the NBA probably knows that. And I think at the very least in the back of your mind, if you're a referee, don't want to throw Wemby out of one of these games and the future if it comes to it. And so it's getting really dicey really quickly. I just don't know what you do about it at this point. But it is just another thing For Nick's psycho fans to be.
- [35:33]
B
Yes. And I think kind of feeding into the idea of Wemby as the NBA's golden boy. And that's going to make him a villain in the eyes of a lot of fans of other teams who feel wronged by these sorts of situations. It's. You're right, though. Like, we don't want Wimby to not play. This is a better series if Wimby plays every, every game. But the points are the points. And if he's racking them up enough to get suspended, he, he deserves to sit out one of these games.
- [35:57]
C
You could understand where people would feel some conspiratorial spirit about this, because not only is he the perceived face of the NBA, but there's. There's a lot on the line with Wimby globally where I think he has the first chance among. I mean, in a while, maybe since, I mean, LeBron's on this level. But I just think that the international appeal with him, where he could kind of dip into that, that level of. Because it's funny what's going on in America right now. If you follow this, where FIFA athletes are in America and Americans are like, who.
- [36:28]
B
You know, that's the funny thing that's going on in America right now.
- [36:31]
C
Well, yeah, I wish that were the only thing. But no, I just think that Wimby is going to have a chance to kind of level up in it. So you could, you could understand where you could, you know, tinfoil sombrero be like, oh, they're trying to, they're trying to protect this guy because, yeah, the shove to. I don't. What's the argument? We don't have to litigate this, but what's the argument against the Jalen Brunson? Well, what's the argument against the elbow to Nas Reed? It's just, it's not helping this kind of their protecting Wimby narrative because those are, those are glaring.
- [36:58]
A
Yeah. All right. Why don't we take one more break, come back, talk about what could happen in game five. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. It all comes down to this. Who do you think will be wearing the ring at the end of the NBA Finals? Make your call with FanDuel right now. New customers can hit the court with $350 in bonus bets guaranteed after betting $5 for seven straight days. FanDuel is the best place to bet all your favorite players during the Finals. Bet on their baskets and boards or build a same game parlay for a chance at a bigger payout. So we're looking ahead to Game 5 back in San Antone. San Antonio as we're recording, this is favored minus five and a half. I get it, they're going to come out with piss and vinegar after this one, but man, I don't know how they recover from such a traumatic defeat. Give me the Knicks +5 1/2 to close it out in game 5. So Knicks +5 1/2 in game 5 and remember, just visit FanDuel.com RingernBA to get started. 21 select states 18/dc, Kentucky or Wyoming first online real money wager only. Minimum $5 wager required for 7 consecutive days. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus best which expires seven days after receipt. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut so one thing we have to talk about just to kind of go through the rest of this game here. Got some interesting Hawk Purdy minutes. Didn't expect him to see him in a critical Game 4 of the NBA Finals, but that's how dire I think it got for a while there for the Knicks.
- [38:40]
B
Well, yeah, there's dominance and then there's a team willingly playing not only hook 40, but Jeremy Sohan as a part of their rotation. Like it is baffling that the Knicks pulled this thing out considering where it all started. I would say where it started truly is they came out. They were clearly trying to establish Cat right from the jump as a hub for their offense. As a go to option in their offense picks up those two fouls I believe in the span of like basically one minute of playing time. And then from from that point on you can see the cascading effects that that has for the Knicks. Cat has to leave. In comes Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson plays I believe five minutes and he looks like he's about to pass out. So they have to take him out and put put Huckport in. Then even later in the game because of Cat's foul trouble, the spurs start while they are up 25, intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson so that the Knicks have to take him out and put Huck Porty back in because they can't put Kat back in. It's like all of these trade offs were just like happening and then we're sitting there wondering why the spurs are up 25, 27, 29 points. A lot of it just starts with they were cut off at the knees in terms of Cats foul trouble from the very beginning, and I don't know in the first half that they ever really recovered from it until they got the hard reset at halftime.
- [39:51]
C
Yeah, I understand. Coming out and trying to say, like, all right, we're going to try to establish. I don't know if you're approaching it like a boxer, almost like I'm trying to establish the. This finishing move, which I think for the Knicks is. Throughout the course of the game, you kind of. The body work, I think is the movement that comes through playing through Cat, which gets everybody involved. I think it's way more of a. Like we're finding closeouts. We're getting, you know, that's what gets them into that Blender, I think, is. Is starting through him because you have a little bit more 0.5 stuff with him. But I kind of wondered if they had moved. One of the ailments that could lure the Knicks into the. The troubles of the past and the stagnation for them offensively is. This is a conspiracy theory that I have about the Knicks. I almost wonder if it's like when Giannis makes a three in the first quarter and you're. And on the one hand you'd be like, damn it, oh man, it's not our night. But if I'm the opposing coach, I'm thinking he's going to take more of this.
- [40:44]
B
He's going to take three more of these. Yeah.
- [40:46]
C
So this is going to. Oh, no, you know, it's the, you know, fake it. He hit a tough shot in the first quarter of last game where it was sort of like a reverse pivot hot, crazy shot, high glass over castle that went in and I made a mental note of it. I was like, I wonder if Brunson tasted the. The shop making honey a little early because he over pursued it the rest of the game. So you come into it, you're trying to set up this flow of the game and it just got thrown wildly off by the way the game started with. With Cat.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah.
- [41:16]
C
Is that crazy? You think that's possible?
- [41:18]
B
I think it's. I think it's definitely possible. And also within this whole like foul trouble subplot, I think one of the better uses of a challenge we've seen at any point in the playoffs, as far as the clamp, the clamping play that we addressed earlier, my normal policy is if, if you're not resulting in like the actual exchange of points, and this one would have, because Kat was going to be going to the free throw line regardless, you shouldn't challenge if it's this early. You should be very careful about it. And really the only alternative is very, very late in the game. If there's a change of possession that could swing the result, then yes, you should absolutely investigate it. But that was a play that clearly there was the proximal clamping foul that ended up getting reversed and getting Cat as second foul and out of the game. But if it had gone slightly differently, then the spurs are just without a challenge for 47 minutes of this game.
- [42:06]
A
Yeah, that was at 105 into the game was when they challenged that. I had the same thought. I was like, it happened. I was like, what? Like what are we doing this so
- [42:14]
B
quickly for a hugely high stakes play a minute in?
- [42:18]
C
Because if you get Cat out of there, that's what I'm saying, if you change everything, if you lose the ability to have that counterpunch throughout the game, you know, I just feel like a big takeaway from this game is the fact that we always talk about the teams like the spurs or just young teams. We always measure a team's competence and stability based on how they respond to adversity. And I think it's just as important to measure how a team responds to success because I think in the spurs success tonight, they lost focus and it ended up really, really burning them.
- [42:48]
A
Well, I think that's the big question going into this next game is can a team overcome such like a colossal failure like this? And this one just, I mean, considering all the stakes, all the emotional tensions that are already rising going into this game. Clearly we talked about Wemby kind of feeding into those and to come out on the other side and to do it in such kind of an embarrassing fashion just really probably hurts. I don't know, like, is it possible to even come through this and like find any sort of silver lining to take with you? Or is this the type of game you just flush and just like decide like, well, we'll just start fresh from the next one.
- [43:24]
B
I don't know how much silver lining there is about a 30 point second half in which all of your limitations are laid bare and everything that was working for you has suddenly been turned against you. That's the part that really would stick with me if I were a member of the spurs or their coaching staff. It's just how easily the team was kind of duped into chasing the three after three after three fallacy that we mentioned earlier. This isn't a team that really plays that way. They are not a volume shooting Team by type. They have all sorts of other avenues into their offense. We've seen it all throughout the playoffs and here they were just like chasing after this one, like home run shot over and over and over and over just because they had the success that they had in the first half. Kyle, I think you're spot on about that, about the way that we evaluate young teams and what we put value in as far as their ability to respond to challenges. But it is a challenge in its own way to be up this much. It's a challenge to like think about 24 minutes against a really skilled, capable, adaptive opponent and you have to maintain the focus or else they're going to cut it. They're going to cut the lead to 17 and then to 13 and then to 9 and then you're back footed, you're on the ropes and what are you doing? We just have seen enough of the spurs offense in the series to know that they don't have the precision to bail themselves out when they're against like the full brunt of a comeback. Like what New York did tonight.
- [44:45]
C
Yeah, the, you, you said insult to injury, and I think that's a really good kind of microcosm of, of what went on here where the spurs just need to realize that the injury is them getting in the goddamn paint and scoring at the rim. The insult is the extra stuff is them shooting the threes. That's, that's like if we're making them where we get up huge on you, but otherwise we got to stick with our bread and butter. And I just feel like overall the spurs just, we, we've kind of lauded. I've gone back and forth, I've gone back and forth with them where I'm like, man, it, it seems like they don't, they've. They've got a lot of different guys who are auditioning or maybe someday they're going to be the primary option for this team. And, and, and then we'll have these moments where, where they go up 30 where I'll be like, well, maybe that's their, maybe that's their superlative is that it's not just one guy. It's a, it's. They're cobbling it together like a unit and it's coming from everywhere. And then when this, when the, the feet start getting to the fire, you see, like, no, they don't have a Jalen Brunson guy who like time and time again can steady the ship and go get his own. So that's, that's kind of where I laid it. Because there were moments in this game where I was just like, man, Dylan Harper, is this. Is he claiming that belt right now? But he's clearly just not ready to do that.
- [45:58]
A
That's where I wonder where the environment shift probably couldn't have happened at a better time. On the one hand, I think it's easy to just read into the fact that MSG is rocking and just ascribe a lot of times what happened tonight to that. On the other hand, when you hear Mike Breen being like, it's never been this loud or it's never been this crazy and, like, the screen is literally shaking, I do have to wonder. There's like, a pretty nice anecdote, I believe, from game three, where Dylan Harper, I think he was talking to ESPN Scott Van Pell afterward, and he was like, oh, I was walking through the tunnel and I saw Jay Z. And I was like, oh, that's Jay Z. And he's like, did you say anything? He's like, nah, I didn't, I didn't. I didn't want to, like, embarrass myself. It's like that sort of thing at MSG must be. Be pretty jarring. You're not only in this giant moment, but then, like, you look across the stands like, it's so replete with, like, everyone from your childhood and all the biggest celebrities that, you know, you have Taylor Swift with the Heim sisters and Marisa Hargitay all wearing stupid punch shirts. It's just like, that really does have to compound what is already happening there. I'm not going to say like, that that led to what happened in the actual game, but, like, if you're already rattled and young and not, like, ready for the moment, that has to, like, really kind of add to the everything going on through your head.
- [47:07]
B
There's a lot happening there. I mean, there are times to process the puns.
- [47:11]
C
How many, how many, how many copy editors in New York? We're going to blame the game on. On the puns? I don't know. Or would the copy editors been. I don't know. I guess it depends.
- [47:19]
B
But yeah, somewhat. The finger was going to be pointed at somebody, and it was probably going to be Taylor Swift. That's just how the universe seems to work with this stuff. But she a Knicks fan? Was I unaware of this?
- [47:31]
A
No, I think she lives in the general area.
- [47:33]
B
Well, plus, she's getting married. It has been announced at Madison Square Garden or reported. So I assume this is just like, preamble to the ceremony.
- [47:40]
C
Oh, the vibes were horrible too, because the whole Dolan Trump thing and then the Dolan, like, Dolan was text for the game that. Yeah, Dolan was doing everything that he could to. To ruin the. The ever increasing positive vibes in New York trying to tend to snatch. So, you know, damnation from the. From the jaws of salvation.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah, I know. Yeah. No, it's the Dolan Trump thing, but also the Dolan mom Donnie thing. Whereas, like the whole watch party situation, they were canceled because they weren't getting the, like the approvals that they wanted. Like, what is.
- [48:12]
A
You're saying that Taylor Swift cleansed the aura of what could have been a curse inflicted by Dolan slash Trump?
- [48:18]
B
I think she might have. It's just like there were enough puns that the wordplay just washed out whatever funk was in the building there.
- [48:25]
C
A pun. Swish and sweat spit.
- [48:27]
A
Yeah, this might just get me just completely like doxed.
- [48:31]
B
Okay.
- [48:32]
A
Saying this Taylor Swift terrible hang.
- [48:35]
C
How do you know based on what's.
- [48:37]
A
Like, it just seems like a lot, like, I don't know, just didn't seem like a lot of performative, like celebrating there.
- [48:44]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, given how anti performative you are. Like, Taylor Swift is about as performative as.
- [48:49]
C
As it gets.
- [48:50]
B
Like that. That's brand.
- [48:52]
C
A couple celebrity things that I noticed that I enjoyed a lot was when they went to Larry David during the break and he was like, ah. And he was like, go away. Shoot him away. Like, you could tell it was really Larry David. He gets to be himself in a really awesome way. And then when everybody was celebrating and like hugging and grabbing Jerry Seinfeld was like telling people not to touch him. He's like, I don't. I'm not doing that. Like, it was a pretty funny. Almost like, I don't know if he's a germaphobe or something. Something, but. And Chalamet wore a normal outfit. Maybe that was good.
- [49:20]
B
Sometimes you got to do it.
- [49:22]
A
It was. It was like a chrome hearts, like million dollar normal outfit.
- [49:26]
B
Well, for him, that's normal. I guess so by Chalamet standards, this whole conversation is.
- [49:31]
A
Is like living in la, where it's like, you're not supposed to acknowledge the celebrities, but what you do is as soon as you see someone, you're just texting like your best friend, like, oh, my God. I saw Jared Leto walk into to the Air one the other day.
- [49:44]
C
Castle Grayskull.
- [49:45]
B
See, I was thinking as we were seeing Celebrity Row and all the different pockets of it, like, what. What would be the Spots that you guys would want to sit in a la the cafeteria table meme, you know, and when I saw the, like, Sandler Calipari corner, I'm like, that feels like Kyle man territory to me. That feels like.
- [50:01]
C
I don't know. No, I don't know. It took me. It took me a minute. Sandman. Yes. I don't know. Cal be a great hang. I don't know.
- [50:12]
B
Fun to watch a basketball game with.
- [50:14]
C
Yeah, possibly.
- [50:16]
A
He's. He's charmed many a Southern man in his life. I'm sure he could. It's true.
- [50:21]
B
Who do you think for you, jv? Are you posting up with Fallon? What are you doing?
- [50:24]
A
No, it's just me and Kylie Jenner all the time in common. We live the same sort of lifestyle. I feel like. I feel like that would be a robust conversation.
- [50:32]
B
You two have more in common than anybody knows.
- [50:35]
C
You could drop hints, try to get her to ask about your cucumber. There's a lot of. A lot of stuff you could do there.
- [50:43]
A
All right, so game five. What do you guys see in the future? Any. Anything you picked up from this one? Any sort of, like, tactical things? Any. Dylan Harper? Like, he's great. Do we just want to, like, give him a little tug real quick or.
- [50:56]
B
I think we already did that.
- [50:58]
A
This.
- [50:58]
C
Oh, boy.
- [50:59]
B
I. I think the time for little tactical things is kind of over. The dispiriting nature of a loss like this, I find it hard to believe it would not have some hangover effect. Not saying necessarily that the spurs are going to lose it all in Game 5, and that's just what's going to happen. But how do you pick yourself up off the mat after this to then pull off of three. One comeback that is, I think, too long a road. It feels much more likely to me. And maybe this is me with sports writer brain yet again that we're thinking about the images in the moments of this game as, like, the preseason feature fodder for next year's Spurs. Of like, oh, every Spur has a moment that haunted them. It's Wemby stepping to the line and going over two. It's Champagne stepping up with, you know, two and a half minutes left or whatever it was and missing that three. It's Dylan Harper throwing that ball away at half court when he got, like, the slightest pressure. It's Dear and Fox smoking the layup. It's. I mean, Stefan Cassidy might be the only Anderson one.
- [51:52]
A
I mean, I'm not pitch.
- [51:53]
B
I'm not pitching it, but everything is
- [51:56]
C
there for Create work for yourself.
- [51:57]
B
Rob, I simply can't anymore.
- [52:00]
A
This.
- [52:01]
C
I mean, the. The OKC thing was they rallied back, but it wasn't like this. I mean, three in a row. This is. This is pretty. For the. For it to. For me. I mean, I wanted this to go to seven just because I just want to watch these games. I guess it still could, but, man, this is going to be. This is going to be such an uphill, uphill thing. I mean, I think if they can manage to. God, if they could win a game six at the Garden, obviously that would like, even the series out in a literal way, but that's the only thing that I think would like, cleanse it. And they be so tired at this point, man. I mean, they. That's another thing too is these ro. These rotations that we were talking about. I was wondering if the fatigue was going to start adding up for the spurs and just the amount of just like, discipline that it was taking, the communication, the physical toll that it was taking. It's. You keep wondering where it's going to hit a wall with the Spurs.
- [52:53]
A
See, I was going to say it on the, on the flip side, because if this was like a one day between games, at the very least, maybe the, the spurs youth and athleticism could get on top of the older team. Jalen Brunson played into the 40s, OJ and Anobi played into the 40s. Like, maybe they could do it by like, sheer energy and verve or something. But man, 2G, two days in between this next game. Because the next game is going to be on Saturday, which is kind of a weird split. I guess they just wanted the Saturday prime time for this Game five. But like, even that is tough. So I don't know. We didn't really talk much about Wemby. How did you guys feel about him? Just overall in this game, he finished 9 for 25, 24 points. Yeah, it did feel like it really like he sunsetted in the first half along with the perimeter shooters.
- [53:38]
B
Yeah, it didn't really feel like he gave them much stability at all in the second half other than. Yeah, those moments where he was aggressive on the offensive glass. You could see him kind of hunting for some of those shots. And he. Look, he hit some jump shots during the third, especially in the fourth quarter. Quarter when they really, really needed some kind of answer. Those are big moments. But I don't think you can really compare what he did versus what OJ Anunobi did or Jalen Brunson did. Like the, the biggest Nicks in terms of the stability they provided were just so much more secure than what 1B was giving the Spurs.
- [54:10]
C
Yeah, I mean, you want to keep. He, you know, took eight threes tonight. We were talking about when he gets up in that 8, 9 territory. I'm feeling pretty good if I'm the opposing team, because it's like we were talking about like he. Some of those like Joel Embiid, like short pick and pop kind of things in the, in the ball screen that he was doing. They mentioned it on the broadcast. I. I don't mind those shots you keep. You kind of wonder if they might go to that. I think you just got to reset and go back to the game plan because I think. I think that the spurs we saw found something, got away from it, lost it. I think they're going to just kind of reset and see if the, if the Knicks can answer that again. Because I think those things were working.
- [54:47]
A
Yeah.
- [54:47]
C
Yeah.
- [54:48]
A
All right. Anything else? Any good tidings?
- [54:52]
B
Oh, I have one more good tiding. Just because I feel like somehow even in lavishing praise on OG for hitting the game winning tip in, we've somehow just kind of glossed over the fact that he had 33 points on 15 shots.
- [55:05]
A
I.
- [55:06]
B
The fact that he has become this rock solid, metronomic part of what the Knicks do. You know, Mikhail Bridges is a little up and down. Cat has had amazing moments, but also really quiet fourth quarters. OG might be like front to back the most consistent player on the floor for a New York team that is one win away from the NBA title. And that's not the kind of thing I feel like we should just end up glossing over.
- [55:27]
A
Well, I mean, this might be overly symbolic. Maybe I'm also doing the sports riderly thing there. But like, it does feel like the OG trade, as we look back on it, really did kind of form this team in a way that like they needed it to. It's just so crazy how he was always so good. Clearly, because we went through several deadlines mocking him to 30 different teams because every team could use a player like him. It's just crazy how he went from a guy who was so talented and had so much potential but wanted to be more, but maybe didn't really necessarily profile as that sort of player, but was so off injured that like he couldn't get there to now he's just like this paragon of stability and health. Like I don't know what happened because it's not like he went from a coach that ran him into the Ground to a coach that was going to preserve him because he went straight from Nick Nurse to Tom Thibodeau. And so like, it isn't that like maybe the Knicks just had a plan in order to pace him out or use him properly, but like he's going to go down as like one of the most important players for one of the most important teams of this recent era. And like it's a credit to him. Like these types of players that get tossed around a lot is like, oh, role player on this team or that team, like tend to get like forgotten or at the very least don't live up to this sort of hype. And like, yeah, he really was worth all of the podcasts we did about him.
- [56:44]
B
Oh my God. I, I still kind of firmly believe that he might have saved the Grizzlies. Like if they had just traded for him during the John Moran era, like the, the peak of it, the height of it, where they really needed a quality three, that team might still exist and be really good. There probably a couple other teams that could have traded for OG and saved themselves in the process. The Knicks ended up with him. And not only has he just covered himself in glory in so many of these massive moments, he has clearly just the production of getting the Knicks here in the first place. He's going to live forever in the reels of this game in particular. And that's where for as charmed as this Knicks run has been, this was a truly magical game. Like this is an all time mint. It make the DVDs, send it out into the world, put it as a hardwood classic.
- [57:30]
C
Right now this is Willis Reed level completely.
- [57:34]
B
Like we are going to be remembering this game whether you're a Knicks fan or not. Like on our deathbed someday. Like that is. This is basketball history. And OG Anunoby is I think the, the defining reason why we're going to remember it as such.
- [57:46]
A
Yeah, you'll be thinking about my tomato stories, all of the many dick puns that we've made on this podcast. Just, just friendship, you know, you joke,
- [57:56]
B
but what are the Knicks if not the power of friendship? And what is this podcast if not the power of friendship?
- [58:01]
C
And they had some big old grape tomatoes in that second half. And OJ OG is one of the best two way players in the world. I mean that's just kind of an obvious one at this point. But I mean he can shuttle with the ball, he can stop the run. He's just built like a truck, his train. He's had four or five of the, like, most impressive transition, like, defensive plays that I've seen in all of these playoffs. Just blocking Dylan Harper at the rim, inexplicably. Just doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And like you said, metronomic is the way. You know, he's a culture guy. Yeah. I mean, what did he make? Seven of nine threes tonight?
- [58:37]
B
You know, granted 10 of 15 from the field. Come on. One.
- [58:42]
C
Also peeling off of him inexplicably at the dumbest possible time. So they gotta shore that up. So, yeah, I mean, and that was something that was building throughout the game. They kept leaving him, and then it just culminated in leaving him at the worst possible time.
- [58:57]
B
Well, and not to tip our hands too much, but we're about to file some ballots pretty soon for the last top 100 iteration of this NBA season. I'm just ready to be fully irresponsible about OG Anunovi's ranking on this list.
- [59:10]
A
About to be how high?
- [59:12]
B
Too high, frankly. Like, when you can do this on that stage, I'm willing to consider anything.
- [59:18]
C
Third overall. Two. Yeah.
- [59:20]
B
Yeah, why not?
- [59:21]
A
So OG as it stands right now, number 40 on our list. Yes, he is right between. Oh, this is funny, dear. And fox is at 38. Aaron Gordon.
- [59:33]
C
Gordon kind of is. Okie dokie.
- [59:34]
A
Spiritual predecessor. I would say fair. And 41. Con. Knipple stuff like, God had a good.
- [59:42]
C
Let's have a conversation.
- [59:46]
A
All right, Kyle, you had a stat. One last stat. I feel like we need, like, a drop for you, which is like. Like trap music, like Kyle Manstead.
- [59:54]
C
Let's go. This is something. It hasn't updated for the data for this game, but coming into this game, I wonder if this is something that they could mess with a little bit. I'd had the growing suspicion, and I think we talked about it on this show, that Harper was, like, acutely set up to bother Jalen Brunson. And I went and looked up the numbers, and they were staggering. So 61 touches coming into, like, through game three, where Harper was on Brunson. 0.585 points per chance on 61 possessions. So that's the Knicks. That. That's an interesting thing. I just wonder if they have a way to maybe tilt around their matchups or lean more into that one.
- [60:40]
B
And you said that was just the first three games, though, that number.
- [60:43]
C
Yes, the. I mean, he got him.
- [60:46]
B
That one's going up, unfortunately.
- [60:47]
A
Yeah.
- [60:48]
B
He spent a lot of time guarding Jalen Brunson in the second half. I think he did a good, responsible job, but good responsible defense wasn't really enough in this one.
- [60:58]
C
Well, the breaking around the ball screen thing, Brunson hadn't been getting that call and he got Harper on it. It's critical one tonight. That was a backbreaker. Yeah,
- [61:08]
A
cool stuff.
- [61:10]
C
Let's go. I meant to say a huge win for the Dicks.
- [61:15]
A
All right, let's. Let's go out on there. I think we'll be back on Monday. That's the schedule that's got laid out for us, I believe.
- [61:22]
B
I think so. I think that's the plan.
- [61:24]
A
Okay, so we'll be talking about game five, maybe previewing to game six, or looking forward to what's next just in life, what's going on with Taylor Swift and all that other stuff. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Victoria Valencia back from Sweden.
- [61:39]
B
Welcome back.
- [61:41]
A
Like you never left. We'll talk to you on Monday. See you later. 21 and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MERNET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelp line M A. Org or call 800-327-5505, OH for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York, Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.