The Knicks Push the Eastern Conference Finals to Six. Plus, What’s Missing in Minnesota? | Real Ones

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show – "The Knicks Push the Eastern Conference Finals to Six. Plus, What’s Missing in Minnesota?" | Real Ones

Episode Details:

• Title: The Knicks Push the Eastern Conference Finals to Six. Plus, What’s Missing in Minnesota?
• Show: Real Ones
• Hosts: Logan Murdoch, Raja Bell, Howard Beck
• Release Date: May 30, 2025

---

1. Knicks vs. Pacers: Pushing Eastern Conference Finals to Six

The episode delves deep into the intense Eastern Conference Finals matchup between the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers. Hosts analyze Game 5, where the Knicks secured a crucial win, extending the series to a decisive Game 6.

Key Highlights:

• Logan Murdoch reflects on the emotional rollercoaster leading up to the Knicks' Game 5 victory. He shares a moment from social media where he felt slighted by teammate Ben’s lack of engagement during the series' bleak moments:

  "I felt like, damn, maybe I should have, you know, I probably disappointed the homie..." (07:00)

• Raja Bell provides a comprehensive breakdown of the Knicks' defensive strategies against the Pacers, highlighting Jalen Brunson's exceptional performance:

  "Jalen Brunson was phenomenal, not just in the specific to the start of the game now, he was great throughout..." (09:16)

• Howard Beck emphasizes the Pacers' shortcomings in Game 5, particularly Pascal Siakam's underperformance and the team's high turnover rate:

  "Pascal Siakam was bad. Well, not bad. He just didn't play..." (09:16)

2. Predicting Game 6 and Series Outcome

The hosts engage in a spirited discussion predicting the outcomes of Game 6, weighing the strengths and weaknesses of both teams.

Predictions:

• Raja Bell leans towards the Pacers winning Game 6 at home, citing their ability to close out games and capitalize on Knicks' turnovers:

  "I would take the Pacers." (24:22)

• Howard Beck concurs with Raja, noting the Pacers' potential to dominate if they maintain their momentum:

  "I kind of expect the Pacers now to close it out at home." (24:30)

• Logan Murdoch acknowledges the tight nature of the series but ultimately supports the Pacers' chances:

  "I expect the Pacers to close it out at home." (26:06)

3. The Brunson-Randle Partnership: A Duo in Development

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the evolving dynamic between Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle, two pivotal players for the Knicks.

Insights:

• Howard Beck compares the Brunson-Randle duo to legendary NBA partnerships, yet notes their distinct playing styles:

  "Brunson is so well established... he’s going to do his thing the way he's always done it." (17:28)

• Raja Bell views the Knicks as an ensemble team rather than relying solely on Brunson and Randle:

  "I see them as an ensemble cast. I don't see that as a one, two." (18:44)

4. Minnesota Timberwolves: What’s Missing and Anthony Edwards’ Role

Transitioning to the Western Conference, the hosts examine the Minnesota Timberwolves' struggles, particularly focusing on Anthony Edwards' performance and team chemistry issues.

Discussion Points:

• Raja Bell recounts early signs of dysfunction during a Timberwolves game, highlighting poor body language and lack of effort from key players:

  "These dudes have no, this is over. It's over." (35:34)

• Howard Beck speculates on potential internal issues within the Timberwolves, suggesting chemistry problems might be undermining their performance:

  "When a team is coming apart like that... something's messed up here." (37:24)

• Logan Murdoch and Raja Bell discuss the implications for the Timberwolves' future, considering contract uncertainties and the need for effective team building:

  "They need another guy who can handle the ball and initiate offense..." (46:23)

5. Team Building in the Second Apron Era: Listener Mailbag

Addressing listener questions, the hosts explore strategies for team success in the current NBA landscape, often referred to as the "Second Apron Era," characterized by salary cap challenges and player movement.

Listener Questions:

1. Robert Dean asks about rewarding teams that draft and develop talent amid current salary cap structures.
2. John Plush inquires about the best blueprint for team success and the Dallas Mavericks' roster strategy.
3. Carlos seeks insights on under-the-radar stars likely to be traded in an active summer.

Responses:

• Howard Beck explains the NBA's salary cap rules, referencing the "Bird Exception," and criticizes the current system for hindering team continuity:

  "The whole reason we have a Larry Bird exception... is to promote continuity." (55:16)

• Raja Bell emphasizes professionalism and maturity as key differentiators between teams that can execute despite internal tensions versus those that falter:

  "Professionalism, overall maturity and professionalism quite frankly..." (40:48)

• Logan Murdoch and Howard Beck discuss potential moves for under-the-radar players, highlighting Julius Randle and Darius Garland as possible targets:

  "The possibility of Julius Randle being on the move seems rather high." (68:06)

6. Final Predictions and Takeaways

Concluding the episode, the hosts reiterate their predictions and reflect on the broader implications for both the Eastern and Western Conferences.

Final Thoughts:

• Raja Bell underscores the importance of maintaining team chemistry and ensuring key players are in optimal roles:

  "If you can stay kind of together... you just go methodically about what you have to do to win the game." (21:20)

• Howard Beck predicts a dynamic summer of trades as teams navigate the complexities of the salary cap and seek to bolster their rosters:

  "We're just going to see a wild ass summer of trades and we're all going to be busy as hell." (48:07)

---

Notable Quotes:

• "This was an up and down game. It felt like, the Patriots couldn't get to their offense." – Logan Murdoch (06:55)

• "You'll have to weather a punch early... stay within striking distance." – Raja Bell (21:30)

• "There's a lot of conflicting priorities there." – Howard Beck (43:06)

---

Conclusion:

This episode of Real Ones offers a thorough analysis of the pivotal Knicks-Pacers series, highlights the evolving dynamics within the Knicks, scrutinizes the troubles plaguing the Timberwolves, and examines broader team-building strategies in today's NBA. With insightful commentary and strategic predictions, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the current NBA playoff landscape and its potential implications for the future.

Transcript

[Adnan Virk]

You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

[Logan Murdoch]

This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Slow and steady doesn't always win the race. Like when Phil Jackson really needed a shot in Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he just gave the ball to Kobe and let him cook. And that helped win the game. If you're looking to hire someone fast, use Indeed Indeed sponsored jobs. Get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Speed up your hiring process right now with a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.comringermba that's indeed.comringermba. terms and conditions apply. High hiring Indeed is all you need. What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there, Howard Beck, and the motherfucking cut it is Friday vibes. How are you guys doing? How's. How's life? Roger, you were in Miami this morning. You were in the city, dude. What's going on?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, this was.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's like anti lost, Roger. Like, you were in the city in the. What are. You were out of your, out of your element, out of your bag. What the.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, well, it's the things you do for kids. I would not, I would not be down there if it was like, because of something I had to do, but my kids had something to do, man. They, they went down, there's a jewelry shop called gld. Like shout out to gld. Like they're like really hot right now. And so they invited the boys down to hang out and do some stuff. So I chaperoned, drove down to Miami, down to their warehouse, and we hung out with them for a little while. So needless to say, the traffic is a little thicker than you would, than you would normally think. So when I got out of there, it took me a minute to get home.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard is Miami like an underrated traffic city in terms of like, you know, we get the la, you get the New Yorks of traffic. I feel like Miami doesn't get his just due when it comes to like.

[Howard Beck]

Here's the thing though, with Miami at least for, for like, for our purposes, NBA purposes. Airport to downtown where the arena is, even if there's traffic, it's not that far.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Hotel to, to arena might be a mile, might be brutal, but at least it's not that far. Like you can get to stuff because nothing's that far going from like downtown or the Biscayne Bay area, like over the, the causeways to get to Miami Beach, south beach, whatever. Like that, that can be. But no, not. It wouldn't be in my top five of like traffic cities. Like Houston's like a freaking nightmare. Like I hate driving.

[Raja Bell]

What else, what else you got? I'm fascinated. You got la, Houston, New York, Chicago, Chicago.

[Howard Beck]

Chicago's.

[Raja Bell]

Obviously Atlanta. Oh, Atlanta.

[Howard Beck]

Atlanta's bad. Boston's. Boston's really bad. Yeah, Like I've driven in all these places. Like there's a lot of these places now. You don't have to anymore. Right. Like when I was a beat writer and you're, you're just renting cars everywhere and there were certain cities that were definitely like your, your taxi cities instead.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

But this is all before the age, like Uber or Lyft. Now it's just like I don't have to fuck with it. I could just like get in somebody else's car. But I've driven all these places so you also get, get a sense of like where the really bad drivers are. Miami drivers.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, that, that we do make a top five listed.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yep. LA drivers are terrible too. LA drivers are up there as well. I hate driving. What?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, la's.

[Raja Bell]

No, I, I don't. I'm driving la, so I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

Listen man.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, dog, you would know. You would know. That's way far away from your way. You guys know for your point view.

[Howard Beck]

My wife grew up in Southern California and we, every time we go back and we're back at least once a year and we've been in New York for 21 years now. Every time we're back, there's some moment when we're stuck on the 405 or the 110 and my wife's just like, this is why we can never come back. This is why we're never. I just don't want to be sitting in like five lane, wall to wall traffic on a Scorching day for an hour and a half, not even knowing what the hell's going on up ahead.

[Logan Murdoch]

Just think about. LA is just like, everybody's in a rush to do something, so, like, they're just cutting you off. They're just. They're. And when it's not traffic, they're trying to drive extra fast so they can make up the time. And it's just. It can be brutal. I don't like driving.

[Raja Bell]

You're just raising levels of anxiety for me. The more you talk about it, you're.

[Logan Murdoch]

Never going to go back to Miam in the morning. You're never going to do it again.

[Raja Bell]

I hate it. But, like, so we're weird. Howard had a good point, because most people come here and I said they're going to Miami, and they're not staying on either South Beach, Brickell, or, like, somewhere down there. And if you're not there, then. Then it's a very different Miami than you would see when they say we're playing in Miami generally, right? And, like, even Dolphin Stadium or whatever it's called now is 45 minutes up the road. The traffic is ridiculous.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was like Loan Shark Stadium, whatever the hell it is.

[Raja Bell]

It's hard rock. My bad. It's hard rock.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's hard rock. Oh, man. Great. We're gonna get to basketball at a certain point, guys. Just bear with us. But that. That one big hotel out there at Aventura is really nice with the golf. Turnberry. Yes, Turnberry is really nice. It's really, really nice. That's where the Bulls used to stay. But anyways, enough about that. Let's get to the shits. We will talk about Roger's disappointment in the Minnesota Timberwolves in a second, but first, I want to talk about the Knicks and their win over the Pacers in Game five of the Eastern Conference Finals. I just want to say, like, so I don't want to get too much into this, but the other day when the Knicks lost and in game four, it looked, you know, pretty bleak. And, you know, I went into the chat with me, Raja, Howard and Ben, and I. I just said, you know, it was a good run. Late, guys. It was a good run. And, you know, usually Ben, like, kind of just responds in our chat, and, you know, he'll. He'll say something funny, and then the only person that responded was Howard trying to save face, saying, no, not over yet. Logan. Save the eulogies. Right?

[Howard Beck]

No, no, not just eulogies, you Googlees. Because that was. That was from Zoolander.

[Raja Bell]

That's Fantastic.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. All right. All right. Well, well played.

[Howard Beck]

That was. That was intentional. You didn't notice the spelling? You don't think I can spell Logan? Come on.

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

Anyway, you think I was like drunk texting you guys?

[Logan Murdoch]

Perhaps, perhaps. But so I. So Ben doesn't respond and then I see a. I go on TNT and I see a big. Him. They. They put him on the screen and it's him putting up seven. Right. And I know it probably wasn't a sub, but it felt like a sub because he didn't text us back in the chat. And I felt like, you know, I felt like, damn, maybe I should have, you know, I probably disappointed the homie and you know, probably in the Knicks. The Knicks, you know, kind of served through, right? And they just, they said, no. You what? No Tanya Gangulies. What is it? What is it, googly? What is. There will be no Gangulies or eulogies and Googles for all this right here we are going into game six. Rogers. This was an up and down game. It felt like the Patriots couldn't get to their offense. And there were a lot of times, especially in the third quarter where the Knicks, it felt like they were going to let it go, especially early in the fourth quarter and Jalen Brunson just took them home. What did you see from the Knicks in this game? What can the Pacers do to close this out in game six? And will there be a game seven? Lot of questions for you. You know how I do.

[Raja Bell]

Jesus, that is a lot.

[Howard Beck]

I hope you wrote those all down and answer them in order. Raja.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, let's go backwards. Let's go backwards. Will it go to a game seven? Let's. Maybe. But this is where I've been on this series the whole time. I've been very non committal because. Because of, quite frankly, the way it's played out like this is a hard one to really figure out. There's. There's a lot going on there. I think in my heart of hearts that the Pacers will close them out in game six at home. They are rarely. I think they've been held under 100.7 times this season. Twice have been in this series. They. Pascal Siakam was bad. Well, not bad. He just didn't play. Halle wasn't great. I mean, these are, these are. They had 20 some turnovers. These are anomalies. Like statistically, you can look them up like this was his worst playoff game. Patrick Siakam. It was their worst turnover.

[Logan Murdoch]

Game.

[Raja Bell]

Like, these are things. Jalen Brunson was fantastic. Like, these are things. It's been his best game in the series, probably. There are a lot of reasons why I could say going home, I think the Pacers would win a game six. Having said that, I thought the Knicks did a really good job of, of doing the things that you need to do to the Pacers to keep them in the wheelhouse of, of. Of a score range. And we went through that last time. 110 and below is a. Is a green light for the Knicks, right? Like, that's green zone. We're gonna. We think we win this game. And they did a great job of doing that. There were a lot of. There were a lot of things that they did. They tib staggered minutes. So he didn't have the defensive, you know, the two defensive pieces on the floor that are at times liabilities for him. It allowed both of them to kind of cook independently where they weren't stepping on each other. The Knicks made it, made a concerted effort to not give Halle a head of steam coming up the court and getting into offense, like, immediately with that pace, making him work just to bring it up. Um, Halle didn't rebound well, which, which really is the igniter of their break, because when he's got 10, 10 boards or so, you can't really pick him up and turn him and there's no outlet pass needed. So before you know it, as a defense, he's on top of you. And they're into their offense. They navigated all those ghost screens that the Pacers like to play with. They ghost a lot of screens. The Knicks navigated that beautifully last night. The Pacers don't have a ton of dudes who can go get a bucket they don't like. Halle is not a great bucket. Like, he's a great player, but he's not a great. Like, here you are on an island, me and you, and you're going to just beat me over and over again. That's not like his secret sauce. Siakam can do it a little bit. They don't have anyone else who can do it consistently. Nemhard can do it a little bit, but not enough to beat you. So when you can get them slowed down, make them play in the half court, don't give them those opportunistic, like, ghost slips where someone's wide open to the degree that you had through at least most of the series. You're going to have a good chance, and then you're going to need your players you're going to need your Cat and your Jalen Brunson to do what they're supposed to do. And I thought Jalen was phenomenal, not just in the specific to the start of the game now, he was great throughout, but, man, you know, this is what I. When we talk about the Wolves, you know, this is what you do if you're a superstar in that situation. This is what the fuck you do. You say, all right, we're at home, backs against the wall.

[Logan Murdoch]

Watch me get on my back.

[Raja Bell]

No, he did it.

[Logan Murdoch]

What did you think of the pace, Raja? Like, this is something that we have. Has been the story of the series, where the team that dictates the pace Dick takes the win. And it seems like that last night when I was watching, the Knicks had it at their pace, and I think when they, you know, when Cat got into a little bit of foul trouble, the Pacers were able to get kind of get. Try to get back in the game. I think got it within 10. And it was like, oh, shit. And, you know, Howard can kind of speak to the vibe in the garden and the nervousness, but it felt like, oh, shit. The Pacers are about to find their way. How do the Knicks continue to dictate pace in game six on a. In a road environment like that? And, you know, we say it, it seems like more easier said than done. Can you explain also how hard that is to do on a closeout game when you're on the road?

[Raja Bell]

Well, it. To control pace in and of itself is. Is a difficult thing. It's even more difficult. And I've said this, you know, a lot on the pod. It's even more difficult when the team that you're trying to control the pace against wants to run, because it's much easier to fall into running with someone than it is to, like, fall into, like, grinding it out. Everyone wants to run. So if you see the layup and you're the team that doesn't want to run, I mean, who's turning down layups and wide open jumpers? Like, it's easy to entice someone into running with you. So it becomes really important for the Knicks to kind of do what they did, which is, you know, Cat having the advantage just about against anybody who tries to guard him. Too big and too physical for Siakam at times and like, to. To death. Like, to. To. To. To. To adequate on the perimeter at times and able to stretch miles. Like, he becomes someone that you want to work through because that works your shot clock down right like that's longer that they have to guard you. That is slowing the game down. Selectively running and selectively shooting threes becomes a part of it too. Attacking the rim slows the pace down because you're going to shoot a higher percentage in there. And so they've got to take it out of the net, right. And. Or you're going to get fouled. And now the game has stopped and it's slowed down. So the. All of those things when it goes through the net. I thought they were great last night about picking Hallie up at the baseline or underneath the free throw line, if you will. Very rarely was he able to catch it on a run at the hash and push it up the court. In three seconds he was getting up the court on, on, on makes, you know, six, seven seconds because, you know, they were picking him up and just making him turn a few times, which is a big deal as it relates to, like, trying to control the pace and the tempo of the game. And so I thought they did a very good job. They were in attack mode on top of the rim. That. That's going to put the ball through the hole. It's going to allow me to set up my defense. I can pick him up and he can't run it up the court. And then attacking the offensive glass, you know, teams can run when you can't. When they can control the defensive boards, everybody turns and burns. They're out. But if. If they can't control their defensive board, they can't leave. They got to stay anchored to the paint and try to box the fuck out, which stops them from running out. And I thought the Knicks did. They did a really, really good job.

[Logan Murdoch]

One of the other things, though, Howard, that was the big point of the game is just the partnership between Jalen Brunson and that's growing with Cat now. Right. I forgot the stat on Turner last night, but they were. It was a stat. I think it was like 30 points. I forget the stat. But they, they were, they were. Their. The duo was as good in this stat as Shaq and Kobe and Elgin Baylor. I forget the stat. It was something to do with points and assist or. And real ones. Help me out in the comments if we fuck up. But all that to say how special they have been throughout this postseason.

[Raja Bell]

What do we do?

[Logan Murdoch]

We need to put more respect on their name in terms of them as a duo. And what is. What, what is this postseason telling us about them as a duo as the games go on?

[Howard Beck]

It's interesting because it's Funny. Not until you actually ask the question that way. Logan, did it. Did it actually hit me that I still don't actually think of them as a duo like, they obviously are. They wear the same uniform, they play for the same team, and they're really important, like, you know, complimentary stars. Right. And when they swapped out Randall for Carl Anthony Towns, the idea was to upgrade, to get Brunson a little bit more help, somebody else who has, like, some serious scoring punch. But this. I don't mean that as a slight that I didn't think of them as a duo. It's because I think of them so distinctly still. Maybe because they've only been together one season, maybe because it doesn't seem always as seamless or as much as it's like those two depending on each other in the same way that, I don't know, like, know some great D duos, like, you know, like Curry and Clay, possibly because they came in almost together, always just seemed like you can't think of one without the other.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

Curry and Draymond is that way. LeBron's had various partnerships where it seemed like. Like, okay, like, you could just see how these guys.

[Logan Murdoch]

Curry and Durant, too. Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, no, for sure. Curry and Durant. Although that was a little bit different wrinkle in the whole thing.

[Logan Murdoch]

But.

[Howard Beck]

But the. Brunson is so well established at this stage in his Knicks tenure as a guy who at any given time is going to put the team on his back. He's going to find ways to get this possible fadeaway. You know, 13, 14 footers going to get in the teeth of your defense. He's going to get you off balance. Like, there's so much that he does on his own. I often don't really think of it as being like a Brunson Towns thing. In Towns, it's a different thing. Our. Our perceptions and image of Towns throughout his time in Minnesota. The thing you wondered when he came to New York was, are we going to see a different version of him? What's the next stage for him? What does it mean to be in a different environment? And it's still the same Towns. He still makes, like, stupid fouls and then complains about them constantly, though it was obvious as hell that it was a freaking foul. Like, what are you even complaining about, dude? And so I'm thinking of them distinctly because they both very much still are who they were before they became teammates and pick and roll partners. Right. And I do think that there is, like, a good synergy there, but I Still feel like it's mostly like Towns is going to do his thing the way he's always done it. Brunt's going to do it the way he's always done it. And the Knicks are still more of an ensemble that revolves around Jalen Brunson. Does that make sense?

[Raja Bell]

Yep.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Roger, am I wrong on any part of that?

[Raja Bell]

No, I definitely see them as an ensemble cast. I don't see that as a. I don't want to see that as a one, two. Like that. Why? I mean, it's a great question, but I would agree with you on that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, Valentine's Day, instead of, like, I don't know, Pretty Woman, you know, Julia. Julia Roberts is just part of, like, an overall group of people versus in Pretty Woman. It's her and Richard Pierre. Is that what you're saying?

[Raja Bell]

Wow. Well done.

[Logan Murdoch]

No one's like, bro, no one. No one's locked in. No one's. No one's following me here. Okay? I just walked off, looked back, nobody.

[Howard Beck]

You lost me at Valentine's Day. Was that a movie that I missed?

[Logan Murdoch]

That was a great movie. It's my favorite Valentine's Day movie. It's. It's a ensemble. If, you know. You know, it has Jessica Beal, it has Jamie Fox, it has. Who else has a young Taylor Swift in there? Like, it's. It's really good. 2010.

[Howard Beck]

You missed that entirely.

[Raja Bell]

No one running with you on that fast break, bro.

[Logan Murdoch]

No one. I ran. I ran back. I went to run. I was gonna throw you the live off the glass, Raja, and I looked back, and you were like, all right. Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

We were mailing it in. We were waiting to go back to our home court.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Roger was on the other end doing Mike and Jill's talking about. This is. Oh, man.

[Raja Bell]

Time is money, bro. Come on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, goodness. Yes, yes, yes. What are the. Just the last thing to put a pin on this, because I'm just. It's just. We're just, you know, loopy at this time of day. It's Friday, ladies and gentlemen. Roger, what do both teams need to do in game six to win? Like, what do the Pacers need to do? And then what do the Knicks need to do about it? Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Okay, let's. Let's. Knicks continue to attack aggressively. The paint. Don't fall in love with the three ball, even if we're making them, will allow you to control the tempo, get into the bonus. Don't turn the ball over. That's the one thing I wanted to add to the question. You Would ask me before, teams like OKC and, and, and Indiana that want to get out and go and can produce really quickly and rapidly are fueled by light ball turnovers. They're out, you know, and those leads can expand on you very, very quickly. And the only way then you can get that lead back is to do what with them? Run. Right. Because you need more possessions. Recipe for disaster. So take care of the ball for the Knicks. I do. Love I. Tibbs seems to want to stay with his bench. I like it, you know, I like the minutes that they're getting from people on the bench. And I know that's not like sham.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was great down the stretch. Sneaky great down the stretch. Look, what year is this?

[Howard Beck]

Howard did not see that coming.

[Logan Murdoch]

2019.

[Raja Bell]

And that's what you're going to have to do.

[Logan Murdoch]

And then you're.

[Raja Bell]

I would imagine I say this a lot. It's corny, but it, but it usually rings true. You're going to probably have to weather a punch early. You're going to have to weather the punch that is the, the flurry of made shots that the, that the Pacers more than likely are going to come out with and then the avalanche of the crowd on top of that. And if you can stay kind of together like you know, in the bunker, heads down and stay within striking distance, then you just go methodically about, like, about what you have to do to win the game. From the Pacers perspective, it would be, you know, I know I said Halle isn't a bucket and I mean this, I mean it like it's. I don't think it's, it's, it's a, it's necessarily up for debate. He is not a great like scoring one on one. Creative. He does some cool shit but like he's more of a, of a straw that stirs the drink. Get everybody going electric.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's magic.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. So, yeah, but for that team, he has to point produce specifically in the games and especially in the games where you can't get up and down to the tune of 125 points. When that's happening, by the sheer number of points scored, it suggests that everyone is cooking. We've got a lot of people involved. Everyone's making baskets. You're going to win those anyway. The ones we need you to be scoring in are the ones like last night. Whether that's a, a game planned thing by Carlisle or if that's just a mindset by Halle, he needs to be on to some degree what, what Brunson was on Last night, maybe not in the same way, but I'm going to be aggressive. I'm going to be on top of the rim. I'm going to be creating, whether it's for me or for someone else. Siakam's got to do what he's got to do, and this is silly, but they've got to go. You got to defend. You conversely, have to turn them over. You got to get those. Those live ball passing lane steals which turn into two, then they come down and shoot the three. And now we. We came back and it was a five point swing in the matter of 37 seconds. That's how they play.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. I'm not going to ask Howard this because he's probably going to just go off the zoom if I ask this question. Who's winning game? Game six. Roger, let's get a prediction in. That's so tough.

[Raja Bell]

I don't know. I really don't know and I don't mean to be.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, you're doing the ads today, so you have to do it. You have to do a pickup at some point. You're doing the FanDuel ad today, so.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I, you know, my. I think the Pacers win game six at home. I think. Oh, yeah, I think. I think the. I think it's. I think the pace gets. There were too many things that were not. There were too many things in last night's game that haven't happened regularly in this postseason.

[Logan Murdoch]

For me, it was a very much an anomaly.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. I don't think they're all going to happen again in the next game. Maybe they do, but I would. If you make me pick, I'd take the Pacers.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. I mean, how about.

[Logan Murdoch]

You want to go down Prediction Street, Howard? Is that what you want to do? You want to go down. You want to figure this out? You want to join us?

[Raja Bell]

No.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Okay.

[Raja Bell]

What were you going to say, though, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

I would. No, I was good. Agreeing with Roger that. That just. That Halliburton, like eight points on seven shots. Seven points and eight shots, whatever. It was like, he's not going to have a game like that again, especially not at home. And this team, like a lot of youngish teams, I think, you know, not only thrive more at home, but thrive on just like energy and like when they're at their pace, when they're taking the ball out, whether it's taking the ball out of the basket or rebound and they're running either way and they're energized and they're ramming it down your throats and hidden pull up threes in transition. Like that's what we see when they play at their best. That's certainly what we see when they play at home. I had said Nixon 7 in this series. I was really tempted before I said Dixon seven a week and a half or whatever ago, I was really tempted to say Pacers in six. Obviously we're down to those two outcomes. So either my, my stated prediction or my impulse that I, that I tamped down one or the other. Like I kind of, I mean, I'm with Roger. I kind of expect the Pacers now to close it out at home. I do. And that's no disrespect to the Knicks, it's just the way this series has unfolded. But I also absolutely thought the Knicks were going to win last night. I did not think that that team, as tough as they are, we're going to go down at home without a fight. So I'm, I, I, I'm as curious as anyone to see how this plays out tomorrow. Like, it's been a really great series. Last night was not the best game in the series in terms of just like it was, you know, never in doubt really. Although in this series you, you never know someone's going to wipe out a 20 point lead with the blink of an eye. But it's been so tight. Like it's going to go down to the wire tomorrow whichever way it goes.

[Raja Bell]

Sneaky indicator to watch for. I, I think this is going to be, be true. I haven't done the legwork to figure out if Halliburton is, is clearing defensive rebounds. If he's, if he's like, you know, he almost triple doubled in the in, in game. What was that? Four? He's all over the defensive glass. I mean, it suggests two things with their missing shots, the Knicks, but, but what it does is it ignites the pace. So if he's, if he's all over the defensive glass, I think the pace is up and that's not going to be good for the Knicks.

[Howard Beck]

I'm curious too. Like, do we see like do, do Stiller and Chalamet make the trek back to Indianapolis? Considering, considering how rudely Pat McAfee treated them the other day.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, man, pull up, bro. I know, but pull up, bro. That's if you want, if you bought your New York and you about to stick your chest out, go pull the up to Indiana. Indiana.

[Howard Beck]

No, they, they. Should I go do it with that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Funny ass suit he had on. What's my gonna wear Roger, what's. By gonna wear game six? What's your. Your Spike style prediction, bro?

[Raja Bell]

I don't know. I get down with Spike, but I don't know.

[Logan Murdoch]

He had the zoo suit on, bro. But did you.

[Howard Beck]

Did you guys see? So. So McAfee says, like, let's send these sons of home, whatever, referring to, like, Stiller. Shalom, Spike, whoever else had shown from New York. And so Stiller goes on social media, basically challenges Pat McAfee or whatever, invites him. Not challenged, invited him kindly invited him to come see the game at the garden, which Pat McAfee declined, saying, no, it was going to cost me 70,000 bucks for a ticket, and I don't need that grief for that price or whatever. So, like, Pat McAfee ducked the smoke. Our guy. Our guy was. Was. Was throughout the red carpet.

[Raja Bell]

Oh.

[Howard Beck]

So. I don't know.

[Logan Murdoch]

I want to.

[Howard Beck]

I want to see what happens from here. Although a nice gesture from John Mellencamp going on social media on behalf of the nicer part of Indiana, saying, that's. That's not how we roll. That was uncool. Pat McAfee, you know, basically, like, such a trap.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, it was like, at a WWE event, bro. Seriously, it was really. I thought it was. I mean, I honestly, like, I know this is. But I thought, like, that was part. I thought Ben and Chalamet and then were in on it. I was like, there's no way he's up here acting like that. I don't think.

[Howard Beck]

I don't think so. Yeah. I do not think that was it. That was a bit.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Well, was that a big bank? Take a little bit. He was like, yo, man, I ain't got the bread.

[Raja Bell]

Well, I'll tell you like this.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think if you got the bread style last.

[Raja Bell]

Last pot, I offered to be Paul George's proxy, like, if you needed it, you know, not that you would need it, Pat McAfee, but I could be his too. So, Ben, I mean, if you wanna. If you want to give me a seat to come sit and watch game in the Garden with you. Hey, listen, I got you.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I thought she was about to switch sides. Roger, I didn't know what you.

[Howard Beck]

No, no, no, no.

[Logan Murdoch]

I didn't know where you were going or, like, are you. Are you going against the homie, bro? Are you going against.

[Raja Bell]

To the Garden?

[Logan Murdoch]

You don't wear your Nick or your Patreon, bro. What you gonna rock? What you gonna do? Black T shirt, jeans, Tim's or Black Forces? No, no, no. Black yeah, yeah. Black Jordan one, Lowe's. Okay. All right, all right, all right, all right. You know the vibe. All right, all right, let's we just made Roger very, very happy in the first segment. Let's just, you know, piss them off.

[Raja Bell]

FanDuel is letting you get in on all the NBA playoff action right from first tip. Because right now all customers can get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. That's right. Just use your token on three plus legs, same game parlay or same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. So I'm going to take in tomorrow night's game the Pacers to win. I'm going to take Jalen Brunson on the over and I think I'm going to take Pascal Siakam on the over points as well. And I love betting on FanDuel. With their great promotions every day, safe and secure app and instant payments, there's no better place to bet on all playoff action than America's number one sportsbook. Visit FanDuel.com Ringer MBA and get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. FanDuel Official sports betting Partner of the.

[Logan Murdoch]

NBA this episode is brought to you by Indeed. A successful season starts with picking the right players for your team. If I were picking a team, I'd pick some of the greatest players of all time. Maybe I get Kareem at the 5, maybe I get Tim Duncan at the 4, LeBron at the 3, Jordan at the 2 and Kobe at the 1. Or maybe I'll get Steph at the 1. Step at the 1 will be pretty cool too. If you want to hire the best players for your business and quickly, you need Indeed. Their sponsor jobs help you stand out and reach relevant candidates faster. Plus, with Indeed sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts and you pay for the results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com RingerMBA that's Indeed.com RingerMBA right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed dot Comba terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Adnan Virk]

This episode is brought to you by gnc. GNC knows that you're not always feeling it at the gym, but don't get down, get lit and get more out of every Workout Beyond Raw lit is a clinically dosed pre workout that flips the switch and gives you more energy, focus, intensity, and pumps the perfect combo for a killer workout. Plus, it's got incredible flavors and thousands of five star reviews, so you know it's good. Pick it up at gnc stores or gnc.com this episode is brought to you by Brooks. So my friends at Brooks sent me the new Glycerin 22, and after using them for a while, these are my thoughts. So I really like the give that they have on these shoes. There's a big old cushion on the sole, but not to the point where we're talking about a platform shoe, which is what I think you see A lot of modern shoes kind of lean toward. They're not chunky, more of like a running silhouette, which I really appreciated. And also, I think they're kind of stylish, but. But in a way that, like, an old guy like me doesn't feel uncomfortable. Wearing a lot of shoes can be a little ostentatious, I would say. But these have a nice color. I got the London Fog ones. I highly recommend those. So go to BrooksRunning.com to learn more.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's talk a little about Anthony Edwards. Let's go back to the group chat. Let's go back to the real ones. Group chat. I'm looking right here.

[Howard Beck]

I got to start watching what I say in these texts, knowing that you're now going to, like, blast it on the. On the show.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm not going to.

[Cliff]

This is. This is.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is not that big of a deal, bro. This is not that. This is not, like, anything incriminating, okay? Relax. I would never do that.

[Raja Bell]

Come on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Anyway, let me get my snitch off. So Wednesday at 5:53pm Mind you, I didn't even watch. I wasn't even watching the game at this point, right? Like, it was the first quarter. I'm like, I'm gonna get to the game, right? The first text that I get is, these mofos look like they about to quit. Already talking about them Minnesota Timberwolves. He says, that was.

[Raja Bell]

That was five. That was five minutes in.

[Logan Murdoch]

That was five minutes in, right? So I went to the. So, yeah, that was five minutes in. And he's like, I'm like, three minutes behind, but these dudes have some terrible body language, right? And then I'm like, okay, maybe just put on the game right now. I go upstairs, put on the game. It's 26 to 9.

[Raja Bell]

No.

[Logan Murdoch]

What the hell was going on? Raja what were your feelings? And, like, what the fuck is up with the Minnesota Timberwolves, dude?

[Raja Bell]

I don't know, man. I had. They were. I don't know how I felt. I was. I was disappointed. I was sad. I got a little angry at them. I ran the gamut of emotions. I really did. Because that first text that I sent, I don't even know that it was five minutes into the game, and I wasn't. It wasn't definitive, right? Like, I was looking something, thinking that I saw what I saw. But I shot that text because I was like, man, this could.

[Logan Murdoch]

Am I the only one thinking this? Am I the only one here?

[Raja Bell]

So I shouted out a little feeler text two to three minutes later. I don't know how long I sent you that next one. Oh, I was sure that I. That I was looking at what I thought I was looking at. And it suggested that they did not. They weren't. They did not want to play. Their hearts had been taken the. The game before that in Minnesota. In Minnesota, they. They had. This was. We're going to get dressed. We're going to come out here. We got to do the job because we get paid to do it. But at the first sign of adversity, we will show the world and especially the.

[Logan Murdoch]

The.

[Raja Bell]

The. The damn, why can't I, the Oklahoma City Thunder, that we are not here for the shits. And they were not there for them. And this. This started to manifest itself in, like, I think the first time I saw it was a pick and roll with. With Julius Randall, top of the key. They didn't let him get left, so he had to come back to his right. Alex Caruso shot, like, right underneath him and stole the ball, went down and laid it up. He didn't even run back. He just looked. He looked utterly disgusted and just stood there while the play was going the other way. Then Nas Reed. These were the two things that prompted the text. Nas Reed had it on the. On the. On the. On the post, and something happened and he got stripped and he was exasperated. He had. He had a look of just pure befuddlement and frustration. And then I saw Ant on the bench rolling his eyes, looking like. I said, oh, this shit is a rap like, these dudes have. No, this is over. It's over.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, go ahead, Rob. Go ahead.

[Howard Beck]

No, thanks. So while you guys are sending or Roger sending his disappointed dad texts about.

[Logan Murdoch]

The Timberwolves, my boys are fucking suck right now. Come on.

[Howard Beck]

I had opted out of watching the game that night because our buddy Michael Lee was in town. Michael and I had gotten to have dinner a long time together, hang out, shoot the catch up. So we decided, you know what? We'll just. Michael put down his phone on the side, like, with. With the game on, and Raj's text comes in. Comes in. I'm like, oh, man, what the hell's going on? And I looked down. It was like, yeah, 26 to 9. I'm like, all right, we made the right. Right decision here, Ramen, over watching the Timberwolves get smoked. But it. What hit me immediately was. And, you know, trying to pay attention, trying to catch up with it later. A team that's as talented as the Timberwolves are, and they are. And they were one of the best teams in the NBA for the last couple months of the season. We saw them play really, you know, just. Just very. I thought, cohesive, strong basketball. Through the first couple rounds of the playoffs, Julius Randall looked better than he's ever looked in a postseason. Roger. When a team is coming apart like that, especially in the opening minutes of a closeout game, the. The. My radar always goes off because usually what this means is it's not a talent problem. Yeah, the Thunder were the more talented team. We knew that coming in. But when you fold like that, like, my radar just goes off on, like, something else is amiss here. There's a chemistry problem. Some of these guys maybe just don't like each other, and the cracks don't show until you're really up against it. And I just. And maybe I'm wrong. Like, spidey senses aren't always entirely on point, but, like, that was the. My. Where my brain immediately went was like, something's messed up here.

[Raja Bell]

So. So. So, you know, you just gave me the chills there, Howard.

[Cliff]

Real talk.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's why I hit him with the Uber locked in.

[Raja Bell]

No. Yeah. No. Real talk. Because there were. There were points in that series where, again, I wouldn't come out and necessarily be accusatory, but, like, yeah, and I'm not.

[Logan Murdoch]

I know you're not.

[Raja Bell]

I know you're not. But now that's someone else that said it. So it allows me to kind of reflect on what I was thinking, where I would look at possessions with Julius Randall, like, trying to get a post right, and having his man buried. Buried. And people, like, say, no, we're not throwing you that ball. And watch his body language as he now had to get out of the paint because they didn't. They didn't award him with the mismatch or the deep position. And what I perceived as frustration on his face. But again, to your point, things were going good. Like I was like, oh, I just, maybe that's not what I think it is. I saw, I saw multiple times in this series where I could, where my spidey senses went off and I just kind of buried him because I was like, nah, I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill. There's probably nothing there. But to your point, when that fractures like that, and I mean it, it fractured, it came apart at the seams. That's deep because we don't have a collective fight about us. I'm not going to get into like whether we don't like, I don't know. But it certainly means that we don't have a collective will to fight for this. And that's conserving.

[Howard Beck]

It's the kind of thing where I wonder where days or weeks from now there's going to be the deep dive 3000 word piece that someone's going to do about how the Timberwolves fractured or something and we're going to.

[Logan Murdoch]

The John Krasinski piece. The John Krasinski piece in the athletic. That's what we're going to get. Roger, what's if that, I mean we don't know if that's the case or not, but if that is the case or just generally a general question. There are a lot of teams that have been successful that don't necessarily like each other other and like that have. Howard's covered one of them but they still have executed when the time is right. What is the difference between a team that doesn't like each other, that executes and a team that doesn't like each other that may or may not have come out in game five. Right. To close out a series and break apart.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I don't really know, Logan. I'm trying to think if I, if, if I was really on any dysfunctional teams, like even the teams I was on that didn't, that weren't as good as other teams I was on. They weren't dysfunctional. We for the most part liked each other. There weren't, there weren't a lot of personality true beefs in the locker room. So I, so I guess what I would speculate is the difference is, is just professionalism, you know, overall maturity and, and professionalism quite frankly, because to your point, it's happened. But, but dudes understand this is, this is our job, you know, and so while we might not like each other off the court and we might not be at each other's houses for meals and stuff like that. Our legacies, at least for right now in this window of time, are linked. And it behooves all of us to get out there and work this shit out, at least on the court. And if you can't do that, it speaks to just a lack of probably overall maturity and professionalism. I'm not. I'm not accusing them of. Of having that issue. But you're asking me what would the difference be between a team who could and couldn't. That would more than likely, in my opinion, be the difference.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, bro. Also, dog, why fly all the way out to Oklahoma City to just lay an egg, bro? You know what I mean?

[Raja Bell]

You know what's crazy about that? Who was on the broadcast? Was that?

[Logan Murdoch]

It was abc.

[Raja Bell]

Was it Stan? It was.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, no, no, no. It was abc. This was Mike Green, Doris and.

[Howard Beck]

Oh, okay, Jefferson.

[Raja Bell]

So maybe it was Doris or maybe it was Breen. They were saying that they had been out to dinner the night before. As I listened to the broadcast, right? So, you know, I heard that and I was immediately like, okay, we're good. We're gonna. We're gonna lock in and have a level of fight. To us, at least. At least it will appear that this. That we care about this. And it was a. It was one of the rare instances, because usually in the playoffs, this isn't like a. This isn't a team meeting. I talked about the team meeting where everything is just 100% dysfunctional. And you've got to have that early in the season. One. One third of the way through the season, team meeting. A lot of times you come out of those and shit's worse or just as bad, right? But in the playoffs, we're this deep. We've galvanized in a way to get to this point. Typically when you have that meeting the night before that meal together, at minimum, we come out and fight our asses off. We might not be great. We might not have the secret sauce that night.

[Logan Murdoch]

The reality is OKC is the better team. That's just the reality here, right?

[Raja Bell]

That is the reality. But we'll all be pulling the rope in the same direction. And they just weren't doing that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Where do they go from here? Howard is a lot of guys that. Key guys that are up for. Could be up for contracts, right? I think Nasrid has a player option and his extension eligible. He's making that player option is like 15 million. So he's definitely not going to pick that up. And then you have a player option with Julius Randle, and then Nikkel Alexander Walker is trying to get paid because he has an extension eligible as well. This is the new Apron era. Not all those guys are going to stay on the team. What do they. What kind of offseason are they looking at? And what do you. What. What do they need for this roster? Right, because this was a roster that was very unproven to start the year after the trade for Julius Randle. And then they kind of galvanized at the end of the All Star, at the end of the season, after the All Star break, but it still seems like they couldn't get to. They're not at OKC's gear. How do they regroup into this offseason?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, the tough part of this, this is the Thunder angle, right? Because every team in the west has to now ask themselves the question of not just how do we get better, but if we think of ourselves as contenders, how do we beat that team specifically? And that's going to be really tough for all of them, whether you're Denver, whether you're the Lakers, whether you're whoever, Timberwolves, anybody, anybody in the Western Conference trying to get through the Thunder, like, good luck. But the Randall thing is the most fascinating place to start for me, because when they traded Towns for Randall, remember, this was mostly a financially driven move in the first place because of the second apron and the size of Towns's contract. So they break him up into two smaller contracts with Randall and Divincenzo. And the second they got Randle, I thought, well, he's a tough fit. I've seen this before because I'm in New York, and there's high highs and low lows with Julius Randle. He's a very frustrating, polarizing player, and he can dominate the ball, and he can just stifle possessions. Is he really going to fit there? And then by the end of the season, and especially over the last couple of weeks before this series, it was like, oh, look, Julius Randle is moving the ball. Julius Randall's racking up assists. Julius Randle's, like, fitting in really well.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's.

[Howard Beck]

He's, like, vibing with these guys. There's a. There's a really good rhythm going here. And in the back of my mind, I was still thinking, like, but what's he going to want contractually? Can they accommodate that? Given that that's why they moved off of Towns, they've got to pay Nas Reed. Nas Reed's a fan favorite and a club favorite. He plays the same position. You can't pay Nas Reed and Randall and Gobert. Something's got to get.

[Logan Murdoch]

And part of the thinking that they TRA why they traded Cat was to give more opportunities to Nas Reid.

[Howard Beck]

So I thought this would be a rental. Right. I thought Randall was there as a stopgap until they eventually just paid Nas and he became the guy. But he didn't exactly decorate himself the last couple of weeks either. So now, now it's instead of like a, you know, embarrassment of riches, it's like an embarrassment of what the hell do we do now? So I like. But I do think they got to pick one. I don't think you're bringing back both of those guys. You may lose Nikhil Alexander Walker, who's been incredibly important to them and part of their strength has been having like all these great defensive rangy wings and you may lose one. I don't know the answer to this. I'm just. I just know that I'm fascinated by it. And then there's like also the okay, Anthony Edwards. What is he, 23, 24? And look, I'm not one who's going to say like, oh, they lost. Let's all pile on Anthony Edwards. But like, there's still growth that needs to happen there. I think that's clear enough. So who's the right running mate? It wasn't Towns. It's certainly not Randall. And they need another guy who can handle the ball and initiate offense and get, get Anthony Edwards off the ball sometimes. And Mike Conley's 37 and you know the drafted Rob Dillingham, but he's not a point guard really. And you know, they're, they're in a tough spot salary cap wise. So I don't know where they go from here.

[Logan Murdoch]

Exactly. Who do you pick, Roger? I'm giving you Julie. Within the confines of this offense of what you've seen in this team. Julius Randle, Nas Reed, or are you taking the kill? Alexander Walker. Like, what are. What, what are you. What is your early.

[Raja Bell]

I get. I get one. I get one or I get a.

[Logan Murdoch]

Combination of two, you might get two. You're not getting all three.

[Raja Bell]

Tougher. Tougher than it. Tougher than it. Tougher than it seems. Probably at face value for a lot of people I would. So at face value, I'd probably say Nas Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker. Right. But the problem with that is, as you saw in the playoffs, Ant at times can't crack the code of put a team on my back. I got to carry you consistently. Right. Like for whatever reason. And I'm not saying he doesn't develop into that, but like he's, he has struggled with that at times. And while it's not all the time that Randle can do it, and a lot of times it's feast or famine, he can do that. Sometimes he's. That you're able to give him the ball on, on, on any given night when it shows up, I don't know. And he'll get you 30 something and.

[Logan Murdoch]

Win a game for you did that in these playoffs, right?

[Raja Bell]

And Nas does not do that and Nikhil doesn't do that. So it's actually tougher, I think a question than, than when you say sounds like if there were a world where I could get Nas Walker and you gave me some other piece to Howard's point that could get an off the ball. And I mean this is, I mean this is an expensive player. Get him off the ball and produce, that'd be, that'd be perfect. I'd have no problem with it. I'd say, I'd say those two in a heartbeat. But without, without that other player that can go get you buckets, I don't know that it's that easy. It's not a good, it's not a good answer. But I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

I've toyed with them.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think we're going to see though, like a lot more movement in these types of situations, right? A lot more like maybe signing trades and during this time, right. Like if you have a guy that is on the end of his deal, like, hey man, like to Roger's point, hey, can we get a guard to get somebody off ball? Can we get this, can we use this as a chip to. There's going to be a lot more player movement when these types of situations arise, right?

[Howard Beck]

I'm like, I've toyed with the idea of these guys as a Durant team, right. Like, if you really wanted to, like, say, you know what, like the, the time is now. We gotta accelerate this thing. We don't know how many more good years of Gobert we're getting anyway. And we're all in on him and we're out of these picks. Like, I don't know if they could even get Durant because, like, they don't have the picks to send Phoenix, but they've got pieces. But, but it's almost something like that, right? Where you need somebody else. And it would be a short term thing because of Durant's age, but like somebody else has to come in and be able to do some things with the ball in his hands and, and, and not in the Julius Randle. And, you know, you're what, three years into the Gobert thing, It's still wonky at times.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know, he was decent in these playoffs too, though. He wasn't in the closeout game, but he was decent.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. So it, it's. But it's just, it's hard to pivot now. This is the most difficult thing about the way the NBA is structured now. Way this, the second apron era is once you're all locked in, it is hard to pivot because there's not enough room in the whole system, 30 team wide to find a place to stash the bad contract or the guy who, the expensive guy who no longer fits with what you're trying to do to try to turn it into something else. And so, But I do think, like, yeah, because free agency is basically dead in the NBA, we're just going to see a wild ass summer of trades and we're all going to be busy as hell.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yes. That, that's. That seems like what's going to be all right.

[Raja Bell]

This Father's Day.

[Howard Beck]

Give your dad the Forever Wanted elixir by Azaro Parfums, an intoxicating fragrance where.

[Raja Bell]

Leather notes merge with the addictive red fruits. Discover the Azara Wanted collection for Father's Day at Macy's.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, let's get to. It's Tuesday. Howard's here. Let's get to a mailbag. Cliff, what's right, buddy?

[Raja Bell]

It's Friday, bro. It's Friday.

[Cliff]

I'm about to say, yo, you good? Yo, it's Friday, bro.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm so tired right now. I am so tired. I've been up since 5:00am, bro. Like, baby, yeah, absolutely. Y' all know. Y' all know the vibes. Raja already knows. He sees my face. Like, he's like, enjoy it. Anyways, it's one of these days. It's just one. You know, life is just one long continuous day, ladies and gentlemen.

[Raja Bell]

You know, tell you, let me tell you. Like this.

[Logan Murdoch]

Gaps in between.

[Raja Bell]

I'm sure Howard would agree with this. I'm gonna say it to you. They feel like they're never gonna end. And you get to a point where you're fried and you, you convince yourself that while this is a beautiful thing, sucks. And all of that, once you get towards the other end of it, man, I'm not saying I wish I could go back because I love these dudes at the age they're at now. Like, this is a cool experience in and of itself, but, man, I wish I appreciated that a little bit more when it was happening. Like, real talk.

[Logan Murdoch]

We'll take that advice. I'm still very tired and don't know. Amen, but I'm gonna take that advice. Happy Saturday vibes to you, Cliff. Real ones. What's going on? How are we doing?

[Cliff]

We chilling, man. We chilling. It's nice and sunny out in Philly today, man. You know, I mean, might pop out later, so you never know.

[Logan Murdoch]

We gonna pop out in Philly.

[Cliff]

I mean, I'mma slide to the Phillies game, and then I'mma see what's up, you know, our coworker, show Capadia, link up with him, and then we gonna.

[Logan Murdoch]

Have this summertime Philly boy.

[Cliff]

Summer in Philly, man.

[Raja Bell]

Listen, can I just do a little.

[Logan Murdoch]

I used to get in the bag.

[Raja Bell]

Philly in the summertime, right? Because I would. My uncle lived out there in Overbrook, and I would. I would go up and hang out with it, like, for a week before I would go up to Carapolis, Pa. To five star up in. Up in the. In the Pittsburgh area. And that was like, the plateau at the time. Like the plan. Yeah, I used to be. Hey, man, you could tell me, Uncle.

[Howard Beck]

Chuck.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, I don't know. This is a relatively new thing, but like. Like towards the end of the pod didn't even sometimes begin, and they just. Cliff and Roger just get into their Philly bag and it's just. Just let him cook. Just let them cook.

[Raja Bell]

Cliff. Listen. Black, black SOB.

[Cliff]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Windows down.

[Cliff]

And then the plat. You know how the plat got the windy roads in the back way, and then it's all park. It's crazy. It's a good time, right?

[Logan Murdoch]

There it is.

[Raja Bell]

Philly in the summer is nice.

[Logan Murdoch]

You might have to hit the Plat this weekend, bro.

[Cliff]

The Plat ain't what it used to be. There's too many young bulls over there.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. All right.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cliff]

If you're not doing that no more.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. All right, cool. You're not a young bull no more. Neither is Roger. You're gonna kick your ass off the Plat.

[Cliff]

All right, just. This first one is from Robert Dean. What up, Beck? Good morning, Howard. Ask to send this via email on the Good Place. Here we are. The Good Place being Blue Sky. Follow Howard and Blue Sky. What should we expect out of the year? Two, three guys today like Chet J. Dub versus and Eris Pryor is the new normal for preparedness and production. And as they get Paid. Should teams be rewarded with salary cap benefits versus the current penalty structure, I. E. Retaining talent counts less against the cap. This should especially apply to players on the team that drafted them in Supermax players.

[Raja Bell]

I like that.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. I mean, the NBA, it's funny because they've got all these competing interests, right. When they're trying to deal with this stuff. Right. Like, the whole reason we have a Larry Bird exception. The Bird rule. The Bird exception, how people refer to it, right. Is because when they created the salary cap back in the 80s, they were like, oh, well, what if this would mean that the Celtics can't keep Larry Bird because they've already hit the salary cap. Oh, I know. Let's create a Larry Bird exception. And we call it the Bird exception to this day. The whole point was to promote continuity, to reward teams that drafted and developed great players by letting them exceed the cap and pay more, longer contracts, bigger raises than anybody else could offer because they were trying to promote continuity. And what's happened now in the last 10, 15 years is we promoted too much continuity. Really good teams that are drafting well and getting a bunch of stars or combining their own stars within, you know, trading for stars, they're too good and they're spending way too much money and they're spending hundreds of millions more than other teams are. I'm talking about like the warriors and the Clippers, we got to tamp it all down. So now we've got a system where you're forced to just keep letting talent go. And it's. This is why we have the era of parody. This is why we're going to have a seventh champion in seven years. Because the system is so tight now and the cap is so close to a hard cap that you can't keep everybody. But to the listener's question. Sorry, what was the name again?

[Cliff]

Robert Dean. Robert Dean.

[Howard Beck]

Robert Dean. So to Robert's question, like, yeah, I think everybody, and certainly if you asked any GM in the league, if you asked any fans in the league that are rooting for a good team, especially when, like Oklahoma, that did such an incredible job of drafting its own talent, yeah, they should have all the tools in the world to keep their guys and have those somehow be freed of luxury tax penalties and apron penalties, but if you do that, it goes against what the NBA's current goal is. Their, their, their current mission is, which is. No, we want talent distributed across the league. And if you guys drafted five guys who all become all Stars, sorry, you can't pay them all the max. You're going to have to part with some of them and they're going to go to another team so that another team can be good also. It kind of sucks in a way, but it also promotes the parody that depending on the person who's talking like we enjoy, right? Like this is what's been interesting about this era and you don't have super teams and you don't have dynasties. I know people are already prematurely crowning Oklahoma as a potential dynasty. They haven't even won the first one yet. We need to slow down. But anyway, yeah, there's just a lot of conflicting priorities there. I hope Thunder can keep the guys that they drafted and developed together as long as possible, but it's probably not going to be possible.

[Cliff]

All right, let's get into the second question. This is from John Plush. John Plous. Team building in the second apron world. Plus the Mavericks first draft pick. All right, Howard, Raja and Logan. Thanks for all the content. It makes my morning walks, runs and long driving times more enjoyable. Two questions for y' all. What is the best blueprint for team success in the second apron world? A lower highs, higher lows, one or two very good players in the top 25 with five to six solid role players, a deeper team that is the Pacers or B highest highs and lowest lows. Max out one to two top players in the top five with two good role players and the rest marginal players. Top level heavy talent like the Lakers. 2. What should the Mavericks do with their roster? Draft flag and play him with the current roster and maybe trade Washington for replacement point guard to cover until Kyrie's back. B draft flag, trade away Davis and other win now players for top picks in this and the next draft. Move forward with flag Lively youth. Thanks again for all the great content, John.

[Logan Murdoch]

That was longer than one of my questions. Raj.

[Cliff]

Great question nonetheless. Man, I like that.

[Howard Beck]

Those are both really good.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I'm going to need you to. I'm going to answer it. I just like when I when I go to the next question I might need you to like remind me of the question so long I got you. But I, I think though like when you ask like what the best recipe is, it's less of like of the recipe in my mind and just being effective during the stages that you are in the recipe. Right. Like if you're the Pacers, eventually you're going to have to have max guys on the team unless you trade them away. Right? But in a perfect world in this apron you want a deep team, you want a one really good player and try to win before it gets really, really expensive and you have to trade away guys on the roster.

[Raja Bell]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

The Lakers are in a different situation because one, they constructed their roster in a different time and two, like they just lucked up on a trade. So I would just say like, try to win in the first in scenario A before you get to scenario B. But the best course of action is try to get to scenario A in this particular structure. Honestly, man, with the Dallas Mavericks, I think I am intrigued by that last option. Right. Like it would because of Kyrie's injury and because of the flux that it has put on the rest of the roster. Like it's not going to be a championship roster with how it stands right now with Cooper Flag and Anthony Davis. Like Anthony Davis, he has been healthy over the last few years, but that's not a guarantee. And I think they have a ceiling with who they are with Anthony Davis as the lead dog. Like you've seen him be the lead dog and his ceiling is what, like an eighth seed. We've seen what that was been in prime Anthony Davis when he's the lead guy. So I'm intrigued. I don't think they will do it necessarily, but like, you know, you try get, get off of Clay's contract because he wants to win. Now you get off of Anthony Davis's contract if you can and then build a younger team around Cooper Flag also. The other thing about Cooper Flag is, you know, it still remains to be seen if he, he's a really great player, but everybody that I've talked to, it remains to be seen if he's going to be like the lead, lead, lead, lead franchise type of guy that is going to be able to be that type of person and that personality be able to do that. There's a lot of questions with the Mavs, but I would be intrigued the most about just going young and going through. I don't think it's going to happen, but I would like to see.

[Raja Bell]

I'm not, I, I don't know about the first one, but the Mavs. Look, Cooper Flag is not a build around player in my estimation. He is a. And that's going to sound crazy because I know he's about to be the first pick and I'm not taking anything away from who he is as a player. I take him number one too. But I've said before, I think especially, you know, in the first and second evolution of who he is as a player, he's going to need a lot of support. But he is an every box checking winning player. So maybe not this year because Kyrie's hurt, but if you're able to resign Kyrie, and I don't know what everybody's deal looks like, but if you told me I had a team with a healthy Kyrie, a healthy ad, you know, lively Klay Thomas, I mean, Klay Thompson. I'm sorry, the other pieces they have. And Cooper Flag in year two, having had a year under his belt.

[Logan Murdoch]

I like that even, like, even, even how much they're aging at that point, because I don't know, Kyrie's gonna be like, what, 35?

[Cliff]

No, 35.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Cliff]

He's 33 right now.

[Raja Bell]

I like that team.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

By the time he's back, by the time he's back. But you gotta.

[Logan Murdoch]

And then Clay, we all know Clay is like, not even now is kind of like a bit of a shell and stuff. Like, I, I don't know. I just don't know.

[Raja Bell]

And you're right though, like, there, there's age on that, but like, and I'm not saying that's got a Runway, but I like, I like that team two years from now with the second year, Cooper Flag and everything that he represents as a, as a player. I like that.

[Howard Beck]

Two things are coming into conflict here. One is that in the NBA, youth almost never wins. Even the best rookies don't, don't win, don't influence winning at a high level as rookies, and it sometimes takes two or three years before they really do. And that was the case with rookies who came in at a lot higher level than Cooper flag. LeBron did not have a winning record or make the playoffs as a rookie.

[Logan Murdoch]

And Cooper Flag, I don't think Jordan did either.

[Howard Beck]

And, and you can, you can find it over and over and over again. So youth doesn't win. That's the first piece. The other one that is in complete, like diametric conflict with this is that Nico Harrison, from the moment he made the Luca trade, said, we're all about winning right now. We have a window here with Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving to win championships. And that, that thing went up in smoke when Kyrie went down with the ACL and AD was hurt immediately. And so we're. And now you, now you've fallen into the number one pick in the draft. So is this about the future in Cooper Flag or is it about this imaginary window that Nico Harrison created to try to win championships with Kyrie and ad which always seemed far fetched to me anyway, that being the case Yeah, I think I'm tr. Like, they're not going to. Because they're fully invested in this, and they can't. They'll never. Like, they don't want to pivot because then it's almost admitting you're wrong. Trade Ad. Like, you can't trade Kyrie because he's got the ACL injury, but don't extend Kyrie at a high number, if at all. And, And. And trade Anthony Davis. Like, the Cooper Flag is the future now, whether he is a number one or a number two, ultimately. And, Raja, like, I'm with you. Like, I'm. No, I'm no talent expert, but people I talked to for a story that a couple weeks ago, I found a variety of opinions on what Cooper Flag's ultimate ceiling and position on a team will be with respect to. Is he. Is he a true franchise number one who can carry you, you know, deep in the playoffs on his own? Is he going to be a complimentary star? Like, what is he like? We'll see. But he is their future. And the two guys they were building around, quote, unquote, building around, are in their mid-30s and always hurt. Like, you got to pick a direction. We've already seen that the two timelines thing doesn't work. Golden State.

[Raja Bell]

Well, what if. What if they're bad next year? What if you're like, all right, we're waiting on Kyrie. Like, like, we're gonna stagger your games. Like, we'll protect you this year. We're bad again. You find yourself right back up to bat. Now you got two. Now you got two theoretical, like, franchise pieces moving.

[Howard Beck]

I gotta check to see if they've got their. Gotta see if they've got their pick. I can't recall because they've been out a lot of picks, too, Raj. Actually, there is one counterpoint to this that I've thought about my own head. So to argue against what I just said, I wonder about this. Is there a case to be made that actually, you know what? They're not winning a championship the next couple of years. Screw it, who cares? But what we really want is for Cooper Flag to come in on day one and not have to feel like a franchise savior or what always comes at the number one. Yeah. So you're. You're nodding your head vigorously like there's a case to just, even if you're not going to win at a high level, keep those guys as being able to bear the brunt of leadership and pressure and all that stuff while Cooper Flag finds his way in the NBA. Yes.

[Raja Bell]

That's what I said when they got the pick. Like, that's, that it's perfect for him. Like, don't fuck it up and throw all of the weight on his shoulders to be something that he's not ready to be a buffer.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I, I, I see the merit to that, but I also think, like, clock's ticking on AD and his value.

[Raja Bell]

That's fair.

[Howard Beck]

So.

[Logan Murdoch]

And I think also in this, in this new apron era, bro, you got to make decisions really fast. Like, you have to. If something happens, you have to be able to pivot really, really fast. And I think that, like, if you wait too long, you know, you, you, yeah, you don't want Cooper to go through those growing pains, but, like, it's better to do that. On the other hand, and you're actually, like, winning titles. Is lively still on a. He's on a rookie deal, right? Like, yeah, you, you know, you still want to make sure that you're having flexibility. Like, I think of in the terms of, like, what would Sam Preston do in this situation? No questions asked. Sam Press, he's trading, like, all of them dudes and getting Cooper flag and getting the picks. Right? Like, yeah, but. And he's the, and he's the best GM in the league. Right? So, like, that's why I think, assuming.

[Raja Bell]

Like, Sam Presti is awesome at finding gems in the draft. Like, you got. If you're going to do Sam Presti, then you got to be Sam Presti. Like, you got to go in that draft and hit a home run on most of your. Now, you don't hit a home run on every pick, but, like, you understand what I'm saying?

[Logan Murdoch]

Damn near. Yeah. Bonds with it.

[Raja Bell]

And your development plan within the structure of your organization has to be almost equivalent to what Oklahoma City. And that's a lot to take in. You know, that's a lot to assume when you're, when you're, when you're making that. But I, I hear where you guys are coming from 100%. And he might get expensive, and they might get expensive, but the inexpensive version of they're not winning until they're expensive anyway. That's the best way I can put it.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. No team is.

[Raja Bell]

They're not winning until they're expensive. Like him on his rookie deal. He's not, like, that's not, he's not, He's. Look at him at Duke. He is fantastic. But that's, that's not, like, the essence of his game. You know what I mean? Like, Shay, that's the essence of his game.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

You know what I mean? That's not the essence of.

[Howard Beck]

Right. He's not going to be a. He's not going to be a 35% usage guy. Right? Like, he's not going to come in and just say, like, just give me the ball in every position.

[Raja Bell]

It's not what he does now. He'll, He'll. He'll in a complimentary role for a while. I mean, he could hit the NBA and one be one of the best complimentary pieces within six months because he does everything really well.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, like, you know, like, for sure. All right, we got one more question.

[Cliff]

Yeah, let's do this last one. This is from Carlos. Hello. Real ones. Lots of murmurs lately about this being an active summer for trades. We all know Giannis and KD as the two big names that are pretty likely to get moved this summer, but who are some under the radar stars that people should keep an eye on as potentially being on the move as well? Thanks and love the show.

[Logan Murdoch]

Carlos, you ready to get aggregated back? Because, like, there's no way. There's no way we can. Even if we just speculate. Speculate, which is what we're doing right now. We're not even, like, also use the.

[Howard Beck]

Phrase keep an eye on, which might have been the phrasing that I used in February when something went off the rails due to no fault of my own.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's all good. Our live show did numbers. Anybody on Boston's roster? News flash, guys, you know.

[Howard Beck]

All right, listen. All right, let me just. I'm just going to run through this real quick. This is all completely speculative. Do not aggregate.

[Logan Murdoch]

Please don't aggregate. And I'm the one that's the aggregation king. Like, I'm like, do it, but please don't. Dude, you're putting in some terrible.

[Howard Beck]

No, there's a lot of, like, logical. Like, we covered Julius Randall, right? Like, he's like, not a star at that level, but he's been all NBA a couple of times. Like, the possibility of Julius Randall being on the move seems rather high. The Cavaliers, the. The bill is going to come due eventually. They have the same second apron pressures that the Wolves did before they moved towns. There's already discussion or just speculation around the league, like, oh, do they have to move off of Darius Garland? You know, like, and there are plenty of teams that would love to have him. The Celtics breakup, we've. We've already.

[Logan Murdoch]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

I don't think Jalen Brown. But like Derek White or Drew Holiday. One of those two going seems almost certain if the Nuggets really got desperate and. Or creative. Michael Porter Jr. Is not a star. So Carlos's question was about stars. But like, could you get to the point where you entertained offers for Jamal Murray? Interesting to think about. We covered it. Anthony Davis. I think there's a case to make that. That they should trade Anthony Davis. Dallas. I think there's a very strong case that the sun should trade Devin Booker, but they're not going to. But they should. And especially if they're trading Durant anyway and they're going nowhere soon. And then. Yeah, there's a team in Memphis that might have a guy. But I'm not talking about.

[Logan Murdoch]

Huh. I don't. Bro. I. I think we just said every name that's under the sun. Like, I don't think there's. Everybody is. Is. Is on the. Is on the table.

[Howard Beck]

That's today's NBA.

[Logan Murdoch]

So.

[Howard Beck]

Yes.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is what it is. Bro. You know, you gotta pivot. I don't have anything other than that. Raja G, do you have anything. There we go. There we go. There we go. That's been another edition of Real Ones. We have our Real Ones finals preview on Tuesday. Yeah, man. Good to see you guys. Talk soon. All the shits say it rock.

[Raja Bell]

Nah, your world.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, you're a hater. Yeah. Darling.

[Raja Bell]

Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in President D.C. opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay. Required refund issued as a non withdrawable bonus. Bet that expires seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply, including token expiration. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.