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- [00:02]
Rob Mahoney
This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's international tournament is here and Ferrero is going all in. Enter for your shot at a range of prizes just by buying your favorites like Tic Tac Fresh Mints, Cool, minty and simple or Halo top ice cream loaded with crave worthy mix ins in every bite and half the calories of leading competitors. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1,000,000. Official rules apply. Learn more at goallinandwin.com.
- [00:50]
Justin Varior
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior and joining me, Rob, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle Mann. Kyle doing kind of like the evolutionary Rob Lowe with the Knicks hat, the spurs shirt. Love it. You're in the spirit.
- [01:04]
J. Kyle Mann
Just, I'm just committed to the finals. I just love all my children equally, you know, love them all.
- [01:11]
Justin Varior
Well, I love this game more than probably any other game in the playoffs in recent history. Holy shit. Like, I'm still kind of coming down from this one. Rob.
- [01:20]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. My first reaction, wow. My second reaction, what? My, my third reaction really like, this is how it's going to happen. Of all things, Victor Wembanyama throwing it off of Stefan Castle's back in a critical moment. I mean, I'm just reminded that if you are a young player on this kind of stage, if you're lucky enough to get to the finals, I mean the lessons are excruciating whenever they come. And this is, this is one that's going to be living with Victor Weminyama and Stefan Castle. I would think for a very long time.
- [01:47]
J. Kyle Mann
That's gonna live on. Yeah, that's one of those ones. When it happened, I did. You said you were doing the what? And I was, I did a lot. I did a few oh no's. When champagne that timely foul, I was like, oh brother, what are you doing? And then, yeah, that, that hurt. You could just see it on Wimby's face that he wanted to like come unraveled. I mean, emotional guy. That's, that's a play that I feel like we're gonna remember about him in some capacity going forward. We'll see. We'll see what the income the outcome is.
- [02:15]
Justin Varior
Well, especially after he like looks distraught, the camera pans to one of the nuns in the crowd. And so I was already like, man, this is kind of like a mess. Like a second half of a Scorsese movie. Now we've just got the whole experience here. And so she's got got God factoring in. It was a real, real cinematic Situation,
- [02:34]
Rob Mahoney
I would say, yeah, but it was like mid period, super religious. Scorsese, like, this is bringing out the dead. You know, we're somewhere in, like, the driving all night in an ambulance and everybody is ragged, everyone is haggard. Cut to the nuns just at your lowest possible moment. What could be more painful than that?
- [02:49]
J. Kyle Mann
Let's say 30 days of night was that movie where the vampire cruelly says, no, God. That's what I was gonna.
- [02:55]
Justin Varior
That's the wand. All right, why don't we take a quick break just to sort things out here. We'll come back, talk through all the action we can get into.
- [03:03]
Rob Mahoney
This episode of the Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero. Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats, like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling. Or Keebler Chips Deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks. Or Ferrero Rocher squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1 million. Official rules apply. Learn more at Go all in and win.com all right.
- [03:38]
Justin Varior
I mean, we took a little break. I don't know if I've fully caught my breath here, but just trying to sort through all of this. I kind of like what Town said in the walk off interview, Rob, where like, things got super messy and we could really just dig through every, like, nook and cranny of. Of all the. The mess there toward the end there. But he was like, we built that lead to provide the cushion, and it did prove enough. And so I'm kind of caught in between where it's like the Knicks at time book, so, so sharp, like, so dialed in almost, dare I say, like past spurs teams with the ball movement and the execution, but, like, time to stretch. They just had enough in that chaotic situation to just pull it out.
- [04:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, if. If you want to tug at the string to see who unraveled, win. It was a great game in which both teams were kind of trading off that sort of responsibility with each other. You know, they both had incredible runs. The spurs had this great 140 closing kick to give themselves a chance to win the game in the first place. But you're right, by and large, if you want to zoom out and look at the game as a whole. I thought this was just an incredible payoff for everything the Knicks have done to get to this point, in terms of figuring out all these varied ways to get into their offense. We saw Jalen Brunson doubled. We saw him trapped. We saw him full court press. We saw a decent amount of switching as well. And yet it was just like there was always a way in. There was always an avenue, whether that was, you know, going to cat in the high post or at the top of the floor to make plays, whether it was Mikhail Bridges bringing the ball up or being a pressure release. Landry Shamit flashing to the middle of the floor. And being more than just a shooter, although he certainly shot, like, shot the shit out of the ball as well. They just had answers for all of that stuff. And I think, yeah, you're building yourself a cushion so that if you do have a couple of minutes where you go completely scoreless, that's fine too. Because even when they are scoreless, I'm just finding this Knicks team to be totally fearless. Like, they. They still have an OG Anunoby drive bump dunk over Wimby in them basically anytime they really need it.
- [05:29]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, the. The sort of daunted kind of looking for him stuff is not going on as much. You can. You can see that they. They really were. You know, the spurs were trying to funnel those drives to the baseline and kind of stay on top, I guess, to prevent further ball reversal, whatever the reason was. But the. The Knicks repeatedly were ready for that. They looked even on the ones that weren't successful, whether it was Alvarado or whoever. But I think what we're seeing is maturity. You know, these guys have been through the wars together, obviously been through some pretty rough heartbreak together. But I think that is kind of manifesting on the court in the basketball sense where this team. And we were talking about this. John Schumann wrote a really awesome thing about how competent this team is late clock. And I think you see that just repeatedly. And I was thinking about that a lot during this game where the. The Knicks just have their wits about them in the second half of the shot clock in a way where other teams, like throughout the playoffs that we have seen, you know, Wimby basically, you know, snaps the. I've got 28 years later on. Is he. He like an alpha, snaps the spine out of your. Out of the first action of your offense is what typically sends your offense into rotation, you know, and things like that. And Wimy takes that away. He's just like, that's not even going to happen. The Knicks are just acutely set up to be like, we're fine with that because we are so good and whether that's Brunson, you know, creating something out of nothing or we're seeing role players just step up and you know, shame it's on a freaking heater. Like you were saying. I mean, he made huge shots. You know, Bridges time and time again made daggers. But I think that's one of the big thing is just they are so steady. They don't panic in a way that a lot of other teams do.
- [07:02]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, what we're talking about is precision. And the spurs, for as great as they are, are not a super precise offensive team. You know, Castle is still like a little bit wild even at some unfortunate moments. Fox, you know, really stepped up and had some of those great stretches, but also had lulz in the middle of this game. And Harper, I thought we saw some of the limitations when you're really asking him to create a lot or to initiate within the offense, that stuff wasn't going well for him. It was all the other stuff that kind of panned out. And so you had this incredible contrast of this Knicks team that has so many varied avenues and so many guys who feel like they keep their head on their shoulders as opposed to the spurs who are a bit feast or famine right now when faced with this level of competition.
- [07:42]
Justin Varior
Yeah, it's funny because the spurs want to play fast, but. But it almost felt like the Knicks allowed them to tucker themselves out and they just kind of won the. The tortoise battle at least in that first half where it's like the pressure at first was. Was really making an effect from the spurs side of things on defense. And it just felt like slowly and steadily, especially in that second quarter where things just turned around. I think it was like a 12 point swing over there. I think the spurs only had 18 points in that second quarter where it was a lot of just ball movement and like waiting through some of the initial pressure and just executing off of that. And then once that happened, if they didn't get the, the shot to go down and they're shooting the lights out, like the rebounding was there in part, it seemed like because everyone was scrambling from the ball movement and Townsend's effect on, on things. And so like it was really just like dialed in. It's almost like it's like the spurs want to play fast, but the Knicks are like born to like live in that chaotic environment in the way that a younger still figuring the way outsourced a team, especially Wemby with the spurs just like hasn't really caught up and married the two things yet.
- [08:48]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I, I would say the spurs did enough. To your point, Justin, about like creating that sort of chaos with the pressure, with kind of jamming things up, with making even the Knicks fly around and execute and execute and execute till we saw their limit as well. Like one basket goes differently and we're talking about all of these elements of the game in a completely different light, right? Then, then the press is the thing that won them the game. Then the traps are the thing that won them the game. And so I don't want to index or swing too hard on any one of those decisions because they got the spurs where they needed to be. There were just like a few too many costly mistakes. And, and I want to say that on the opposite end for the Knicks as well, for as much as Jaylen Brunson was put through the ringer in terms of all sorts of defensive coverage in this game, to come out of it with only four turnovers, I think is like a, a minor miracle.
- [09:34]
Justin Varior
Like he's bad down the stretch. He almost seemed like he spun himself awe after kind of going toe to toe with Fox. Like some of it was the pressure, some of it was just missed shots, but he really seemed off immediately after that confrontation.
- [09:49]
Rob Mahoney
He was a little bit off. But then the play that I think is going to get lost to history because of, you know, the spurs turnover is that ridiculous Brunson fadeaway that tied the game in the first place. So it's like he, he did have moments where he was a little bit off kilter as he is ought to do, as the Knicks are. Ought to be. But he's been one of the best crunch time performers all season and certainly has been in the playoffs. And to deliver that in that kind of moment, there just, there's no putting a price on that. There's no way to barter your way out of it. Like you either have that stuff or you don't. And the spurs came up just a little bit short.
- [10:21]
J. Kyle Mann
I think what we're seeing is a crisis of, I don't know what the right word for it would be, but a crisis of who are your creators? Basically your legitimate creators. Because the spurs are being pressured in this situation where you're talking about, you know, the, the Knicks staying steady. It's just finding that next guy. And we, and we debated about like that next guy to step up and we debated about whether or not that's going to be Harper, that's going to be, you know, Fox or it's going to be Wimby, all those guys we're finding have these conditions around how they're effective that are. Are playing a huge part this series. I think we saw in the fourth quarter, Fox just had this like, kind of moment where he realized, like, oh, I'm an all star creator. Like, it didn't even seem like it was a super scheme thing. It was just like Fox just. And I don't know if that. I was watching the feed where you could see them during timeouts and I was just really. During the playoffs. It's really fascinating to watch the benches, how they react. And the spurs, you know that one they talked about on the broadcast, Wimy was really ripping into some. Like, he was. He was getting on him. And I wonder if part of that was Fox like, be more assertive because he seemed unsure of himself, where to be assertive. We saw in game one, he'd get into the middle of the lane and I've said it, you know, the three, four, five with Bridges, the length and the strength. And then OG and Cat, he's looked a little unsure in a way that he has it in the past. Getting to that little like 10 footer, he was a little more aggressive. But then, you know, you're seeing Wimby having a hard time getting to his spots. And then Harper, who just almost at times feels like a punt returner, that they want to get more involved in the offense.
- [11:47]
Rob Mahoney
That's what I'm saying.
- [11:48]
J. Kyle Mann
It's. It's like we just. We have this like, electric talent. It's like, how do we, like, build our offense around this thing? And it's like they're still figuring those things out, but they came close. I don't know if that, that Fox momentum will continue.
- [11:58]
Justin Varior
Yeah, we should talk about that kind of lineup they ultimately defaulted to down the stretch. Part of it was Castle had early foul trouble, then he kind of stepped on somebody, but also seemed like they just didn't put him back in because they liked the combination that they had. I think you're right. Like, Harper was giving them a lot just by running out and executing on some of those leak outs or turnovers. Whatever it is, it gave them that extra pop that I think they needed. Like, Rob, do you think that, like, that's something. I don't want to get too far down the road here, but like, that closing lineup is something that maybe they could turn to a little bit more because it seemed like at the very least they were their most dangerous there, as opposed to with Castle.
- [12:35]
Rob Mahoney
It's tough because they do need Castle's defense. Right. Like he does, especially if you're going to end up switching as they kind of fell into doing down the stretch, like they were trying to trap Jaylen Brunson a little bit less to stay out of rotation. Castle is one of those guys who helps you fight through switches and not just give them up so easily. And Harper can do some of that, too. Fox, maybe to a lesser degree, but, like, yeah, you really benefit from his physicality and from what he can help bring bring to that dynamic of the series in these critical stretches. So, like, you don't want to bail on that kind of defensive importance so quickly, but at the same time, I, I mean, we talked about this coming out of game one with Harper too, right? That what he gives you in terms of the full court game is so vital. And I think the play in which in the last couple minutes he catches a late, a long rebound, sprints out in transition, and then like hard stops in the paint when he realizes it's like one on three and finds Wemby trailing for an and one. That turned out to be a critical part of the spurs comeback. That's the kind of thing where you don't expect a player his age to make that play. You expect them to try to power through, and it's going to be a make or a miss. I think his discretion and his poise have earned him continued time, continued opportunity. You just have to find ways to keep him on the floor. And if that involves putting all three guards on the floor, I'm open to that. And I, I think all three of these guys have shown there's such competitive rebounders. Castle, Fox and. And Visella is in this category, too. And Harper, they weren't.
- [13:56]
J. Kyle Mann
They weren't competitive enough for me tonight, though. I thought Harper, a lot of. A lot of times tonight I was like. I was like, you. You're leaving money on the table. I know that the rebound numbers say that they're even, but I. I feel like they could gang rebound even better. I feel like some of the most critical moments of the game where spurs got a little bit the. They're turning the motor. I don't know if you guys have ever, like, done like a crank start. You get it turned around a little bit and then it's like, boom. Like it just died. And like, I felt like they couldn't quite get it going a few different times because of that.
- [14:24]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I think there's a compelling argument in that, too, for exactly the sort of lost in the sauce rebounding battle that Justin alluded to too, where the spurs are flying around the floor trying to deal with all this pressure that they are creating to trap Brunson in the first place. And then the Knicks were coming up with all sorts of offensive rebounds because they were just falling in the gaps.
- [14:42]
Justin Varior
Well, this is kind of the battleground we expected going into this series, right, where it's like the spurs, they closed this way that last final possession where it's those three guards plus Fasale, whether you want to categorize him as a guard or wing, whatever you want to say, plus Wemby, like that is their most dangerous lineup. But you look across the way and like the Knicks, they look like they're pretty much all bigger than those guys outside of Brunson. And so like there were stretches where OG just like he's just so massive compared to them. And when he gets it going, he just has like a certain advantage. They even played down a stretch. I think it was in the third quarter where they went without four of their starters and kind of allowed Bridges to kind of just play through him. And it was such a ballsy move to begin with and it really just showed the trust I think Brown has in just like how well things are going. Didn't work down the stretch because when he needed to turn to Bridges, I don't think he really acquitted himself all that well. But like they can get away with stretches of Mitchell Robinson Bridges as your de facto front court because of that size disparity and like it showed up in the rebounding. And I just think like you get enough of those sets where it's like you can really lean on that advantage. Like that's a pretty big swing when every margin it feels like in either game and I imagine going forward is going to be pretty slim.
- [15:50]
Rob Mahoney
I thought Bridges during that third quarter stretch with no Towns and no Brunson was unbelievable.
- [15:55]
Justin Varior
He lights out.
- [15:55]
Rob Mahoney
He made every jumper lights out. Like tough mid range twos hit that incredible like curl lob to Mitchell Robinson for a dunk. But in the end, Town sat almost eight minutes during that stretch because he was in foul trouble and then ended up sitting a little bit. Start the fourth quarter. Brunson sat over five minutes during that stretch. I mean that's godsend. Rest in the NBA finals to get your stars, that kind of time off the floor and you're building the lead in the process. You're going from. I think when those guys came into the game, I, I want to say that the Knicks were only up maybe four Points. The spurs were kind of roaring back, and then all of a sudden, you've got it back in double digits because of Miguel Bridges, because of Deuce McBride, because, you know, you're getting, like, a nice punch from Jose Alvarado here and there. It's like yet another huge moment for the Knicks bench and for Mikhail Bridges both. And. And they really delivered in a way that I'm not sure that some of the supporting spurs ever did.
- [16:46]
J. Kyle Mann
It's been interesting because Brunson has had two pretty inefficient games in a row, and yet I think you're seeing the. The Knicks, despite that use sort of the presence of the threat of him scoring in his gravity, like, really, really well, even though he has had some pretty. I don't. If you don't play that. I don't know if you necessarily need to play basketball to understand how. I think they even kind of referenced this on the broadcast, but it seemed ordinary when Brunson was on transition and he had somebody on his back, and he had Harper flying in, and he decelerated at the rim and just shot it. He just put the perfect arc. You don't know the play I'm talking about. He had, like, three guys around him, and he just shot this perfect floater. That was an insanely difficult shot that he hit. Like, the stuff that he's able to do with his balance and the space that he has, I'm just routinely just blown away, even though. But I feel like. I mean, we got to talk about Carl. I mean, like.
- [17:40]
Justin Varior
Yeah.
- [17:40]
J. Kyle Mann
Do we need to. Do you want to go with. Yeah, let's go.
- [17:43]
Justin Varior
This is. This is the cat music here, because he's just been unbelievable. Definitely faded down the stretch. Obviously, got the fourth file, went out, and then everything just was a mess toward the end there. But, like, that first half was Carl Anthony Towns's, like, Hall of Fame resume, basically. And it's not just like that. He's effective because he's had stretches like that in. In playoff pass with the Wolves in particular. It's like, a lot of the shooting providing the deep the difference. Or like, perhaps I'll just have a big defensive game against a much bigger opponent. Just like, not. Not only how, like, efficient and effective he is, Rob, it's like, how dialed in he is and how, like, it seems like he's just reading the game and making the right play every time, which seems like such a simple thing. But with him, it's never the simple thing. It's actually everything with him, because you just can't count on him to make a stupid foul or just four shots up when he doesn't do it. And it's just like something happened to him going into this postseason. Or where maybe Mike Brown finally spoke to him, where he's just like, man, he's just, like, so streamlined. And you get the player everyone expected or hoped for his entire career.
- [18:45]
Rob Mahoney
I think it has to be more than Mike Brown talking to him like he had an existential crisis. He had a bit of clarity, Honest, and nuns, too. Maybe he spoke to the right spiritual leader of whatever kind, and it just. Something clicked into place for Carl Anthony Ayahuasca, maybe.
- [18:59]
J. Kyle Mann
I don't.
- [18:59]
Rob Mahoney
You know, there are many strange trips people can go on to find clarity. Whatever works for Cat. I want a piece of that. I want to understand how to reach that level of enlightenment.
- [19:08]
J. Kyle Mann
Because the mushrooms from Widow's Bay, I mean, what are we. Are we. Are we on?
- [19:12]
Justin Varior
What's the.
- [19:13]
J. Kyle Mann
What's the palace that you land on the mattress? What's it called?
- [19:17]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not ready to go to that one. Unfortunately. Anything black mold or black mushroom related, I'm gonna. I'm gonna steer clear from. But the combination of that decision making that you're talking about, jv from Kat, where he is, he is that dialed in. He is that precise. And then he's also. He was a critical part of the defensive matchup that was holding down Victor Wembanyama for a significant portion of this game. I would say over the course of the first two games, Kat has just flat out outplayed Wemby in six of the eight quarters, probably to this point, which is an incredible testament to all of that balance, to all of that decision making. And I don't even know what to do with this anymore, because this is supposed to be, like, kind of the one thing that once you reach a certain level of experience in your career, you kind of are who you are as a decision maker, right? You might refine a little bit, you might add a little bit, but you're not going to expect someone like Karl Anthony Towns even a year ago to make this sort of leap in terms of his judgment. And yet here he is. His role was shifted ever so slightly over the course of these playoffs into being more of a playmaker. And it has unlocked every good part of his game and somehow erased all of the wasteful or erroneous parts.
- [20:24]
J. Kyle Mann
Is this Cats Dirk Playoffs? Like,
- [20:31]
Justin Varior
don't say that in front of Ron. He's gonna get really mad right now.
- [20:34]
J. Kyle Mann
No, I mean, you're just talking about a one. You're talking about a special run. We'll see if there's more.
- [20:39]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [20:39]
J. Kyle Mann
There. It didn't end up, I mean, you know I, that that occurred to me during the game. I mean he's not having like the crazy scoring like come, please come stop me. It's been a little different, but seems like a wine bottle thing for him.
- [20:52]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah, I think it is. Look, this is clearly a run and a series and if the Knicks certainly go on to win the championship, they're up 20 in the NBA Finals. It's crazy to say even still it's going to change a lot about how we talk about Cat, about how we think about him historically as it should. This is. He certainly earned that. The Dirk thing is a little different because he was the lead offensive player on a team that went through back to the back to back champion Lakers, Kobe and Powell, that went through Duranta, Westbrook at Harden, that went through LeBron and Wade.
- [21:21]
Justin Varior
Like I didn't need column isn't that is what you're saying?
- [21:25]
Rob Mahoney
You know it's, it's slightly different in terms of the offensive responsibility and also just the, the hall of Fame wattage that that team, the Mavs team ran through.
- [21:35]
J. Kyle Mann
I think, I think in the, in the map sense though, like if you look at the way, if you look at the, the trajectory of their careers, it's like nitpicked. People love Dirk. I mean you got the stretch four or five thing going.
- [21:46]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [21:46]
J. Kyle Mann
But it was, it was a lot of heartbreak, a lot of frustration. Like does this guy have it kind of thing. Comparing the resumes of the, of the competition. Obviously that those two things are very, very separate. But that's just kind of what the template. It seems similar to me.
- [21:59]
Justin Varior
It just gets back to the whole thing with Towns's issue. Just seems so self inflicted and just seems so intrinsic to like who he is as a guy. Like he just seems a little goofy and like would get a little loose with it and it doesn't seem like Dirk was just more like it just didn't work out for him. Obviously the same soft thing kind of I think got to him at a certain point. But we're at the point now where Towns is like hearing Jimmy out there. Like there was the play where he wrapped the ball around Cornette while like basically going down, was about to like put his foot down. One hand passes it all the way to the corner to where I think Bridges. I was like what the is that.
- [22:33]
Rob Mahoney
That was an insane play.
- [22:34]
J. Kyle Mann
That was one of the best plays of his career. I like, I wrote that in my notes. I I couldn't believe he made that play.
- [22:39]
Rob Mahoney
That was, it wasn't just Cornette too. There were like four spurs there and, and he contorted and wrapped that pass and yeah, Mikhail Bridges hit it, but just the, the opportunities that Carl Towns is creating and the way he is and we've, we've praised his driving all throughout these playoffs and in these finals especially. But that is a weapon that is straight up breaking the spurs at critical junctures of this series. His ability to put the ball on the floor, to refuse to be guarded by Smalls in the post. It is everything anyone has ever asked of Karl Towns, and he's delivering it on the biggest stage possible.
- [23:10]
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- [24:41]
Justin Varior
so Real Mixed bag from Victor Webanyama tonight just seemed to be in a spin cycle early on here. Probably in part due to the effect Towns was having on him. Got it going in that third quarter. Obviously Towns was in foul trouble. Just seemed like it broke through. He hit a three at that point and just seemed like things kind of just cascaded from there. Just seemed like he was just playing tight. All of a sudden he had a few shots, things started to move in different directions direction overall. Rob, how do you feel about Wemby in this finals? This is a case where perhaps he's a little lackluster and at a point in his career where he's probably not ready to take the series by a throat. This is just a bad matchup, like impeding like some of the, the smaller advantages he was getting against the Thunder overall. Like what's your outlook on Wemb?
- [25:23]
Rob Mahoney
I would say first of all defensively, because I think that's where we always start with Wemby. It feels like the Knicks have a different level of confidence executing against him and working around him than any previous spurs opponent. And yeah, the first half of game one, you could see a little bit deer caught in the headlights from some guys like Mikhail Bridges and OG Anunoby around Wemby, around the rim. Since then, nobody seems too terrified to attack him. Nobody seems scared of that possibility or that prospect. Like they are going at him, they're pulling him out on the perimeter. They have understood better than anybody else if you pull Wemby out high enough, they Landry Shamit can beat him off the dribble. Like there's lots of opportunity for guys to attack him in different ways and the Knicks are finding the opportunity to do it offensively for Wimy, he's at this weird place where like he needs to make himself consistently available in spots on the floor that are not just hovering outside the three point line and kind of waiting for a kick out. But he also can't overcomplicate things when he gets it. And, and you can see him trying to walk this balance in real time of I am facing up Carl Towns or Mitchell Robinson, should I be trying to go like into a dribble package, fade away, or should I just take this jumper over the top? And it can feel like a concession to just take the jumper, but when the alternative is a couple of awkward dribbles and then a much harder shot. I think we saw him kind of benefit from simplifying things a little bit in the second half.
- [26:44]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, definitely. And I think overall the spurs were doing a pretty Good job of man. Like in the first half manufacturing using Wimy's gravity. Because I had a moment where I was like, I know I parroting kind of what I said with Brunson, but this is just kind of what you do with superstars. You try to use. Use the. The attention that they get. But with Wimy, it's when he's just doesn't even have the ball. And I thought there were a few times where I was like, man, is this. If this could evolve, it could end up being like the inverse of. Of the step offense where Steph's gravity outside the arc is causing cutting and Wimby just going to the basket was. Was causing these closeouts that you could tell that the spurs were in their recovery. Because if they're going to play like a recovery, like peel and rotate kind of a thing, there are these opportunities to drive the ball, and the spurs were doing a pretty good job of it in the first half. But at some point, though, it's just kind of like adjustments can be made and you. You need your stars to. When they were down, I just had this thought where I was like, Wimmy's going to have to transcend offensively and I think, you know, maybe streamlining it, finding simpler ways like you were talking about. I kind of just. I'm trying to figure out how is it that you consistently go to Wimby and get passing out of the ways that he scores. It's weird that he's this dominant a player and we don't know that yet.
- [28:01]
Rob Mahoney
It's kind of crazy.
- [28:02]
Justin Varior
It did feel like he was a little ground down, especially in the first half of this game. I do wonder if the size and physicality of the bigs he's going up against regularly is starting to have like, just a wearing effect on him because it's not just towns and towns. We should mention, like, there was one play where he went at him, got around him and dunked on him. And I was like, I don't remember the last time anyone got a dunk through Wemby this playoffs, let alone like in the past couple months here.
- [28:27]
Rob Mahoney
But it's OG OG got him tonight too. You know, couple of sneaking them by.
- [28:32]
Justin Varior
That's right.
- [28:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Those two moments were like very. This is my third movie reference in one pod.
- [28:36]
Rob Mahoney
But Barry Matrix Reloaded had to be a zombie. What are you doing?
- [28:41]
J. Kyle Mann
Very Matrix Reloaded. When the. The camera zooms to Neo's hand and he's bleeding and the Marian says, you see, he's just a man. You Know that's kind of those, those two plays, I was just like, I don't. I. Those were eye opening moments. See that? He's mortal. Big deal.
- [28:57]
Rob Mahoney
Shout out to the Merovingian.
- [29:02]
Justin Varior
What the hell's going on?
- [29:04]
J. Kyle Mann
Lots of people are going to get that reference, Justin.
- [29:07]
Justin Varior
I hope so.
- [29:08]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I hope so.
- [29:09]
Justin Varior
It was good. I, I applaud you guys.
- [29:10]
J. Kyle Mann
That was a famous ass movie. It's not like I'm picking art, French art house cinema from the 60s or something.
- [29:16]
Rob Mahoney
We need to do more French new wave on this pod.
- [29:18]
Justin Varior
French Connection going here too. It's just the whole gamut. Yeah, but it's not just like some of those guys. I, I do feel like Mitchell Robinson had an effect on like wimy at a certain point. And then it's funny because like when the hacka started and it started very early and it happened like I think like three possessions in a row or three like pretty quick possessions in that first quarter, I was like, oh no. Because on top of sending Mitchell Robinson to the line with a broken hand, basically it also just like ground the game down. Everything slowed down. I was like, oh, this might be an effective way to steal minutes for Wemby while he sits because he basically missed like a couple minutes of game time. But I think it was like a 20 minute stretch where that was going on there. And so I was like, oh, this could be effective in spurts. Like obviously you can't sacrifice those fouls. Carter Bryant was doing a lot of it and so like maybe they can mix it in from time to time in order to do that. They went away from it pretty quickly. And as a result, like remember he's just constantly going against these big groing guys and it's just like thinking back to like some of the series before this, I just don't think he's had to deal with this sort of physical toll. Especially after coming off of the seven game series in the Western Conference.
- [30:20]
Rob Mahoney
And with all due credit, he did put up 29 in this game on 21 shots and in the end had an opportunity.
- [30:28]
Justin Varior
Yeah, yeah, he round back in.
- [30:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, absolutely, absolutely found a way back into it. Even then still had some issues. And if you're going to talk about like the collective toll of a game like this and I, this was a ruthlessly physical game all around. Tons of physicality, tons of holding, tons of pushing, maybe even like a bit much at certain points. But ultimately this is the kind of level of competition that I think we want on a stage like this. And then you get to the end. And Wemby makes a critical mistake in terms of that late game turnover and also comes up a little bit short on the final shot. And so you can at least correlate these things. It's tough to draw what I'm saying, but yeah. Oh, dead. And background. Well, in that case, I just wanted
- [31:07]
J. Kyle Mann
to make sure you.
- [31:08]
Rob Mahoney
My point is erased. It's irrelevant, but no, thank you. It's kind of like that scene missed on the crucial.
- [31:14]
J. Kyle Mann
This is kind of like that scene in the life of quad when
- [31:20]
Justin Varior
like Coach Carter where you put it in the wrong guy.
- [31:23]
Rob Mahoney
Something. But regardless, you know, he didn't have it. He didn't have it in the end. Came up with just a couple of mistakes late.
- [31:31]
Justin Varior
Well, what else from this game you want to talk about? Shamet. It's so funny because every time he makes a big play and I, I will just.
- [31:37]
J. Kyle Mann
You gonna mention his face again, Justin?
- [31:40]
Justin Varior
Dude, No, I, I think he has a lovely face. He should be proud. No, I. We did one of those little preview things going into it on the, on the site and I was like, shame it's going to swing a game. He was like dialed in in the east finals, shooting the shit out of the ball. Obviously he's going to be a factor if Hart was going to play all that other stuff that we talked about in the past, but like consistently now across two games, he's been very important. I just keep thinking every time he makes a good play and he makes a few of them every game now I just think like this guy, they, I believe they traded up for in the G League draft in some like, chicanery where like they already had it set up that he was going to join the G League team because they were over the cap after the talent trade, but like essentially rose from a. The second pick in the G League draft to what he's doing now, which is being like one of the first guys off the bench in a team that's just absolutely mowing down competition in the finals like we haven't seen before, like in history practically.
- [32:32]
Rob Mahoney
And, and a guy that if you want to flashback even to last season, like couldn't even really get off the bench in a lot of games for the Tibbs version of the Knicks. And he's become a critical part of their structure, of their flow, of their decision making process as they're navigating their way around these Jalen Brunson traps. If he were just a shooter, I think that would be really valuable to New York. But the fact that he is an effort defender that he is a guy who's like fighting for loose balls in a Josh Hart kind of way in a game where Josh Hart burdened by foul trouble the whole time. And he's helping them make plays and work around all this stuff while hitting shots. Like, you're transcending the role player package. If you're doing all of that stuff at once, like, you're. You're performing at a level that's similar to a Male Bridges, that's similar to a Dylan Harper. Right. Like you're. You're a role player. Plus, at the bare minimum. And he has just had a legendary run all throughout these playoffs in these last two rounds in particular.
- [33:24]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, he's. He's always had pretty good. He's always had pretty good basketball iq. Like, he played some point. I always bring this up because I'm the college guy, but he always. He played some point guard at Wichita State. Like, he. He can process on some good teams. It's just for him, it's. The translation was like, okay, you're kind of a movement shooter now in the league. We're seeing this. This will be an interesting. For Bennett Sturts, who's coming in the league also. But he's like, in. He's evolved defensively in a way where he's just not as easy to pick on. If you're gonna make shots and play within a smart offense, you have a role. Granted, he's playing the best basketball of his life. They have so many guys that are just.
- [33:56]
Rob Mahoney
It's wild.
- [33:58]
J. Kyle Mann
You know, they all drank the liquid luck there. There we go. There's four movie rivals. It's or based on a heater, man. Yeah.
- [34:05]
Justin Varior
So we kind of have been talking around the Knicks just like, run here a little bit. So this is now their 13th straight win of the playoffs, which is wild. The last time they lost was to that C.J. mcCollum, Atlanta Hawks team, April 23rd. I don't know if I even planted my tomatoes at that point. Rob, how many podcasts do you think you've done since then? 30.
- [34:27]
Rob Mahoney
I think I have done more podcasts than your tomato plant has borne fruit. So, you know, of course it takes
- [34:33]
Justin Varior
longer than a month.
- [34:34]
J. Kyle Mann
I'm just saying time demarcation with your maters.
- [34:38]
Justin Varior
Listen, they look great. Right now. I'm having some trouble with the basil. I think the squirrels are attacking. Really? Actually. Okay, I'm gonna take a quick detour here, please, because squirrels are just really going for my basil and they're starting to pick off some other stuff here. And so I put a bunch of plastic forks around it as a way to like deter them. Yeah, yeah. Or the very least, like they run into it, they just go away.
- [35:02]
J. Kyle Mann
And like perhaps have you tried literal razor blades? What's be the problem with that thing?
- [35:07]
Justin Varior
Chicken wire is the next. Is the next phase. But we'll get to that. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough forks. And also if you've like, if you touch a plastic for fork, it's not very so and so I woke up the next morning and they'd done more damage than ever before.
- [35:27]
J. Kyle Mann
All right, Justin, what's your game three adjustment with the squirrels.
- [35:31]
Rob Mahoney
I just, I just like the idea that these squirrels are going straight for the basil. These discerning pallet ass squirrels like making a caprese salad out there. What's happening?
- [35:40]
Justin Varior
They're breaking out the about the wine coolers and they're just going to town.
- [35:46]
Rob Mahoney
Why not?
- [35:47]
J. Kyle Mann
I just, I like the idea of attacking Justin's basil as a nice sort of turn of phrase that we can bring back at some point. But at what point should we stop calling it the playoffs and just call it like Justin's plant maters? Like where do we. We should set this up with your garden. I think there's stuff we can mine here till. Or whatever you want to.
- [36:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, there it is.
- [36:06]
Justin Varior
Literally anytime you want to take this detour, I am ready. I mean, unless you want to just turn this into its own separate patreon. And I was actually like, I was thinking of ways to like just spin this off and then I. Hey, if Zach gal, I'll end here. But if Zach Galifianakis can do this for Netflix, why can't I? That's all I'm saying.
- [36:29]
Rob Mahoney
Many people are wondering, yeah.
- [36:31]
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- [37:28]
Justin Varior
All right, so the Knicks are playing well. 13th draft win, April 23rd, last loss. They're also now the third third team in NBA history, Rob, to win the first two games on the road. The other two teams, the 93 Chicago Bulls, the 95 Houston Rockets. Wow.
- [37:46]
Rob Mahoney
So if we're not, we're not trying to get ahead of ourselves around here, but I'm just going to put it out in the air now that there's a possibility in a week or two that we are having a discussion about how historically dominant are the Knicks. Are they one of the all time. Are they on one of the all time dominant runs all the way to the championship? You need games like this to get there, right. It's not always going to be double digits. It's not always going to be sweeping people. The spurs are going to have a lot to say in the rest of this series. But I think it, the fact that the Knicks have been able to string together some wins like this one or pull out just like enough luck plus bench stretches, plus superstar play, plus championship team construction stuff in addition to blowing the doors off of some lesser competition in the earlier rounds, that's the resume of an all time great team. I don't know any other way to
- [38:34]
Justin Varior
slice it, but then going into the playoffs we weren't even sure that they would beat the Hawks.
- [38:38]
Rob Mahoney
I know they were down 2:1 to this team.
- [38:41]
Justin Varior
I just, I just don't get like how the flips kind of switched here. And I've been thinking through this a lot especially and I think we're gonna have to talk about this a lot. If they do end up winning and going back to msg, which is probably worth like what, five points? That crowd is going to be electric and it was already going to be tough to play in. And now you're going there up to side, side tangent here. Did you guys catch Fat Joe at a certain point behind the basket? Just look, look at a little inebriate. Yeah, he do it. He was like trying to distract W behind.
- [39:11]
J. Kyle Mann
He was, he wasn't actually trying to distract Wimby. He actually was so drunk. He was like seeing things and he was swatting at them. That's what was going on.
- [39:18]
Justin Varior
Yeah, but I mean we're gonna, we're gonna be talking about this probably a good amount here. I think it's just like A combination of things, obviously. The offensive adjustments that they made, Cat being dialed in, the competition being a little lesser going to this point in the East. Also the fact that, like, they're healthier and, like, that just matters so much more. I know that's not a sexy podcasting topic, but, like, something we all need to reconcile that, like, health matters just so much considering what a gauntlet of the regular season is and just, like, how much torque on the body is happening with even in this game.
- [39:52]
Rob Mahoney
Like, Castle kind of tweaked his knee at a certain point. Fox came up limping down the stretch. Dylan Harper seemed to turn an ankle. It's like just getting out of one of these games without somebody getting hurt. And we saw it in game one with Jalen Brunson. Like, you're just trying to get through these games relatively unscathed. And the fact that they've gotten through an entire run with most of their bodies and core intact. Knock on every piece of wood imaginable. That is what it takes. You do need those kinds of breaks in addition to everything else.
- [40:18]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I've wondered, like, coming, you know, talking about, like, the comparing it Cat to the Dirk thing, it kind of makes you wonder, like, looking forward. Because people always do this with. With titles. They're always. If there's. Unless it's just a dominant, like, Shaq Kobe, like, they steamroll everybody. People love to put conditions or caveats and be like, well, well, you know, like. Like with the Nuggets, for instance, there's been a lot of talk about, like, you know, there was health during that. That Those playoffs. People love to just bring those up. Like, certain rings matter more than others. I could see people doing that. But this. Look at Justin.
- [40:53]
Justin Varior
Just.
- [40:53]
J. Kyle Mann
Let's just get it.
- [40:54]
Justin Varior
ISO camera Justin. Well, just the.
- [40:57]
J. Kyle Mann
This guy.
- [40:58]
Justin Varior
Come on. Just. Just. Just a side tip.
- [41:01]
J. Kyle Mann
Is this one of your hills?
- [41:02]
Justin Varior
Oh, I wouldn't say it's a hill, but, you know, I think. I think people have done the studies, and it was one of the easiest paths.
- [41:08]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [41:08]
Justin Varior
All right, all right.
- [41:10]
J. Kyle Mann
I'm walking into the Jokic's weird. I'm sorry. I didn't even know. It's gonna be my memoir. Yeah, yeah. Walked right into that. Justin setting another trap for this, and I fell for it, unlike the squirrels. But no, I think there's the. There's that going on with it. I could. I. I'm just. I'm not saying this is what I think. I'm just saying I project. Predict that people will be like, well, you know, these People weren't healthy. They're so dominant, man. And I think another thing here that's. That's gonna. You really could kind of feel the earth move under your feet a little bit in how we were thinking about these playoffs in that second quarter where it was like, you saw, you know, the spurs come out through this strong start, they've schemed this thing that's going to work. And the Knicks were. They make one adjustment and it kind of goes away. You start seeing the spurs guards drive into dead ends, and they have nowhere to go because the Knicks are playing the gap so well, and they're so. They're so smart defensively. And then you start seeing your phone ding. I don't know if this is kind of the way it went for you guys, where you could just feel people just be like, this might be a sweep. Like, this is. This is not kind of what we thought it's going to be. Like, the only thing that gave me an inkling of, like, maybe the spurs will swing back is Wimby exerting himself a little bit more offensively and having a big game. But the fact that Fox, granted, Fox came up gimpy, and that was sort of took the wind out of the sails there, where he just kind of had that moment where he realized who he was and started attacking. That gave me a little bit of pause where I was like, maybe the spurs will come, like, fight back, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it. And it's an interesting shift that's happened for me. I don't know if you all feel that way.
- [42:43]
Rob Mahoney
Absolutely.
- [42:45]
Justin Varior
Yeah, it's interesting. I don't want to draw too many conclusions yet, because obviously we still have a lot of finals to go here, but obvious. I think this is the start of time where you're, like, saying, like, what happened with the Knicks, like, what changed between the end of the regular season going to this? And it's just like, I look back to that Pacers team and maybe, like, things are just set up so that a team that's healthy at the right time, that's deep enough at the right time, and just executing at a high level, like, that just matters more than it did in the past when it felt like so much was just, best player wins the series if the superstar dictates a lot of that. And it's like, it almost feels almost too obvious, because obviously a team that's executing at a high level is going to play well and thus go far. But it feels like that's. That matters a little bit more and like I think the depth of talent probably contributes to that a little bit. Obviously the Pacers had that in spades and if you look across the Knicks, the fact that they're have the bench engaged in ways that Tibbs probably waited too long, waited until the playoffs in order to try to dredge some of these guys up, that matters too. But like a lot of times I'm like flashing back to like I I said I brought up the spurs of previous ventures before but like they, they do are reminiscent of that just the way that the ball pings and finding good offense that way. If you really want to make the comp work, like there's some comparisons to like everyone assumed that this would be Wemby's moment in the same way people thought that there would be the heats moment back in the day. Obviously that was the Mavs, not the spurs. But like that's the counter. I mean the age difference is there and everything else but like I don't know, it just, it just feels like this team is like right time, right place and everything going well and maybe that's just what things. This is the way this happens, Rob, in the playoffs now, where it's more about timing than it is about just a complete ticket to ticket like end run to end run sort of dominance that we're used to.
- [44:28]
Rob Mahoney
Well think about even the components that are making that ball movement and that team play possible. Jalen Brunson's an amazing player. I haven't heard a single argument or claim that he's like in the running for the best player in the world conversation. Even if the Knicks win, I don't think we're going to hear that chatter. It's going to be he's an amazing lead guard, he's an unbelievable clutch scorer. All of the positive attributes in terms of his creation and body control without question. But he is not LeBron James, right? Like he's not Nikola Jokic or Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's a different kind of lead, creating all of this action around him by playing out of pressure like he did tonight. And then you've got Carl Towns who's completely rewired his brain seemingly and become the sort of decision maker we were just praising OG Anunoby who at previous points in his career was criticized for being like a little bit too much of a straight line player and not a lateral thinker in terms of the way that he navigates the floor or someone who would push for his own offense too much at inopportune times, we're not really seeing any of that in either direction. Mikhail Bridges, who earlier this season looked like he might have fallen off the face of the earth completely and be lost to a team like the Knicks, has rebounded to become an essential part of their system. Mitchell Robinson, I mean, even as recently as the beginning of this season, we weren't sure if he was ever going to be healthy enough to be a reliable piece for them, like on a season to season, year over year basis. And they just fold all these guys in. They. The ball is pinging between them, perfectly balanced, perfectly calibrated, and it just wasn't that way all throughout the regular season. I say this is all a tremendous compliment to what the Knicks have built and what they have put together. Like a great championship season should feel like a process. You should not be the same team in November that you are in June. You should see growth, you should see change. And we've seen so much transformation from the Knicks that it is, it's frankly dizzying.
- [46:13]
J. Kyle Mann
It's an interesting time, you know, talking to what you're saying, speaking to what you were saying, Justin, about, you know, typically we have these, you know, superstars who are the center of the solar system of a team and everything kind of the nick orbits around that. It's like. Well, I would say also, you know, in the East, a lot of them weren't healthy. You know, Embiid is a shell of himself, Tatums out, things like that. But this, there are other ways to kind of speaking to what you're saying about like times being different now, like how teams are set up, how the schedule plays out. There's another way to build a team which is if you have, you know, All Stars who aren't necessarily at that like top 5 MV MVP caliber level, you can balance that. If guys understand who they are, and this includes the stars, that they're not over pursuing it like Cat would in the past. He's had this calibration of how he plays. I think Brunson has adjusted too, to some of that. But then, Rob, speaking what you said, you're saying too, they have elite role players. So I, I think figuring out that balance, I think is of part, part of what has made this click into place and become this crazy machine. It's just because like the Brunson's not forcing it in a harmful way. Cat's not forcing it in a harmful way. You look at his line, he's been scoring in the 20s and yet he had gigantic impact on the game. And Then letting these elite role players have it. People have brought up the Pistons. It kind of. It's those types of teams, the Pistons, that Mavs team, even though Dirk was dominant. It's. It's that kind of. It's that kind of setup and it's. It's fun to watch.
- [47:39]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly. That might be the cat comp is not the Dirk run. It's Rasheed Wallace to the Pistons. And then all of a sudden he's like, you know, not a full good citizen. Like there's still some of the old sheet in there, but everything is being channeled in such a positive direction by the culture, by the flow, by his place within it. Maybe that is the kind of comparison.
- [47:59]
Justin Varior
Yeah, Mike Brown, Bronson.
- [48:01]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:02]
Justin Varior
Mike Brown deserves a lot of credit for this, without a doubt. It's such a crazy journey he's been on too, because he burst onto the scene just leading those Cavs teams, and all of a sudden was this type of coach, the defensive minded, like basically built the foundation for LeBron's defense and he should have won defensive player of the year at least once and then obviously keyed a lot of his career from there. But then like kind of went in the wilderness with some of these like weird teams and kind of got spat out as some sort of like Steve Kerr disciple, where he really is like a ball fine energy. Speak to like the, the. The like more like kind, gentle nature of people and the. More like just like, I don't know, more free flowing as opposed to he
- [48:40]
J. Kyle Mann
got soft and woke. Is that what you're saying?
- [48:42]
Justin Varior
Like, I think a little bit, yeah. That's what happens when you go out into the bay. It's crazy that like he. It really just speaks to like perhaps like the journey of certain coaches. Like we think about this with players going to different spots and becoming different things. Like he really is completely different there and like, it seems like he's speaking to them in the sort of way they needed to. And like he wasn't their first choice in, in New York because obviously they, they kicked the tires on like seven different active head coaches with actual jobs. And the fact it seemed like he just was the right voice in order to bring this about.
- [49:14]
Rob Mahoney
Well, we've talked about that with the Knicks players too, about just kind of being there at the right stage in your career where you've accumulated enough disappointment and enough experience, and it's just all kind of cresting into something that is singular and of its moment. I think that's the case with Mike Brown too. For all the reasons you just described at this point has overseen, I mean, one of the most explosive offensive seasons ever in Golden State, while Steve Kerr was kind of sidelined with some health related issues, an incredible turnaround in Sacramento in terms of piecing their offense into something functional and playoff worthy and absolutely remodeling everything that the Knicks were without giving up the heart of what the team was still trying to be like. This still feels, weirdly enough, like a gridded out Tough Tibs team. It's just one that has the offensive playbook to supplement it and to play out an entire series that doesn't feel like it is running straight into the wall over and over and over, but has all this facility to it. It like the fact that the Knicks of all teams have just turned into a club with such a deft touch in terms of their execution is a dramatic improvement. And there's simply no one else to credit that to other than Mike Brown and. And the effect he's had on unlocking Towns in the way he's had and channeling Brunson into even more effective ends like he. He has come up with everything that has made this version of the Knicks so formidable.
- [50:33]
Justin Varior
All right, on the flip side of things, you're Ms. Johnson, you're preparing for a raucous environment at MSG in game three. Do you guys see anything other than things that we talked about that might help a little bit more here?
- [50:46]
Rob Mahoney
Man, it's tough. This is. This really is the kind of series where it's just like, can we really not play Victor Webanyama 48 minutes? Can we? Like, you just want to start shaving and you can't because you got to buy these. These guys rest somewhere. But again, they. They were right there. I. I'm gonna. I'm gonna focus if I am Mitch Johnson on how do you. How do you get to second half and third quarter Wemby earlier and more consistently overall. And I think a big part of that is where Wemby is setting up shop, where you're trying to set him up on the floor. And some of it, to be fair, is the shots that he is willing to take. Like, I think the other backbreaking one that if I were Victor Webanyama would be haunting my nightmares tonight is he was on the block on with Mikhail Bridges on his back.
- [51:28]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh, no, the one you're talking about. Yeah.
- [51:30]
Rob Mahoney
They couldn't get him the ball in a timely or easy manner, and he ended up taking a step back corner three instead of like a post up against Mikhail Bridges.
- [51:38]
J. Kyle Mann
I thought you wanted to talk about the one where he had. He had Deuce McBride and Fox threw it off the backboard.
- [51:44]
Rob Mahoney
That was, that was brutal.
- [51:46]
J. Kyle Mann
But come on.
- [51:48]
Rob Mahoney
Both suffer from the same problem, which is every entry pass in the series is contested. Everyone is difficult on both ends, challenged on the ball, physical with Wimby in the post or wherever he is on the floor. I'm not saying these things should be easy, but the spurs guards have to figure it out. Like they have to be a little bit more precise in terms of how they're locating the biggest fricking guy on the floor and getting him the ball to post up Deuce McBride on the
- [52:12]
Justin Varior
other side of this. I thought that the Knicks got a pretty shitty whistle.
- [52:16]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, the only guys who got called for fouls were Cat and Josh Hart. Somehow I don't know what happened.
- [52:22]
Justin Varior
Well, OG went to the line late, I think in the fourth quarter.
- [52:26]
Rob Mahoney
That challenge.
- [52:27]
Justin Varior
Yeah, the challenge was the first time they had had free throws in that second half, which was wild. The Tech on Mitchell Robinson when they were just shoving each other down below, which is kind of bullshit. So like, I don't know, I could see things flipping pretty quickly for the Spurs. I don't want to bury them just yet. Obviously they have a lot of things going for them but like if I would say at this point a sweep seems the like the most likely scenario. I don't know if it's going to happen, but God damn, two games at msg.
- [52:56]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know that a sweep in the finals is ever the most likely scenario. Even if it's 3, 0. It's like you still think at some point a team as good as the spurs will pull one out. And again we, we've talked, we've mentioned it so many times tonight they damn near pulled this one out. One, one mistake. And, and really it is the double whammy of the turnover that then forces them to foul. Not forces, but leads to them fouling Jalen Brunson immediately and giving up a tie game into a deficit. That's the backbreaker of all backbreakers. And so it's like one different play. And this game in the series feel completely. They are changed irrevocably. But here we are in a world where The Knicks are up 2 0. Clearly they have a strong hold on the series. It would be crazy to say they are not heavily favored to win at this point, but I think I feel like a respectful gentleman's like five game series is probably the most likely outcome. And from There all things are possible.
- [53:48]
J. Kyle Mann
I kind of convinced myself or just been led to believe that. You know, we talk about superstars. It takes time. You know, you kind of have to. Even the best ones we've had, it takes. LeBron had the 1 and 7 where he got there a little early obviously, and got destroyed. But it's starting to kind of feel more like that, honestly, where I'd kind of talked myself out of that, that Wimy was going to be sort of a historical anomaly and that he wasn't going to have to go through these trials that they typically have to go through, which we've seen LeBron, MJ, all the best ones do. I mean Kareem's like really the only guy who like came in and immediately won one that won a title. Very different times. But it's kind of starting to feel more like a, like a, like a vision quest kind of event for, for these young spurs players where it's like this is going to be a thing that they learn from because their youth really has shown in ways in this series already in these first two games. Not saying it didn't show in the past, but these Nick, this Knicks team is just ready to exploit some of the things that they, they struggle in and that even the Thunder weren't ready to, interestingly enough.
- [54:53]
Rob Mahoney
So when we do winners and losers of the finals, winner Joseph Campbell, what do we think?
- [54:59]
Justin Varior
Well, winner Michael Jordan, because Wemby can never be better than apparently, you know, lost one finals.
- [55:04]
Rob Mahoney
That ship has sailed. Well, may sail, may sale.
- [55:08]
Justin Varior
That's right. All right, why don't we wrap it there. We're off for game three. So we'll be back to you at game four, which I believe is Wednesday night. Wednesday, that sounds right. If not, who cares? Thanks to Ben Cruz. Thanks to Jeff for filling in on production. We'll be back next week for game four.
- [55:25]
Rob Mahoney
We'll talk to you then.
- [55:42]
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