The Most Intriguing Players at the Trade Deadline. | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show – Group Chat

Episode: The Most Intriguing Players at the Trade Deadline
Date: January 29, 2026
Hosts: Justin Verrier (A), Rob Mahoney (B), J. Kyle Mann (C)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the most intriguing players ahead of the 2026 NBA trade deadline. Rather than focus on blockbuster names, the hosts analyze under-the-radar moves, shifting trade value, organizational philosophies, and the progression of player situations. The conversation weaves through Giannis Antetokounmpo’s potential exit, the evolving trade markets for Michael Porter Jr., Nick Claxton, Joel Embiid, and a lively debate on role players who could become difference-makers. The discussion is candid, strategic, and delivered with The Ringer’s signature blend of wit and basketball nerdery.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo: The Inevitable Departure?

(03:24–15:38)

• The episode launches with reaction to a new report (via Shams) that "Milwaukee is now ‘ready to listen’ to trade offers for Giannis."
  • Justin Verrier: Frames this as the first true step towards Giannis’ inevitable departure:
    "I actually think that this is important… this seems like the first step of what is an inevitability but is actually just a PR framing." (04:56)
  • The hosts dissect the careful PR manipulation, paralleling it with past free-agency sagas (Woj, Windhorst, etc.).
  • Discussion on how Giannis’ “brand” as a loyal, hard-working superstar complicates a clear exit; there's both respect and frustration in how this might differ from the "decision era" star movement. (07:00–08:00)
  • They debate trade windows—deadline (impractical) vs. offseason (more likely for a bidding war).
    • Rob Mahoney: "I don't love any of the deadline options… I want to open the derby to everybody." (09:04)
  • Speculation on top suitors and the assets it would take, leaning toward the Knicks as the likeliest choice due to urgency, ownership pressure, and expendable assets. (11:49)
  • The Portland Trail Blazers appear as a possible third-team facilitator due to their stockpile of Milwaukee’s future picks. (12:45)
  • Discussion about what the Bucks SHOULD want ("a hard reset," future assets) vs. what they’ll probably pursue (win-now veterans).
    • Rob Mahoney: "They might go for near–All-Star level return, keeping Milwaukee pretty good in the east… Not what I would do, but I could see it." (13:29–14:19)

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2. Intriguing Trade Deadline Players: High-Profile Tier

a. Michael Porter Jr. (Nets)

(16:10–27:32)

• Rob’s pick for the “most intriguing high-profile player.”
• Delivers All-Star production on a Nets team strategically tanking.
  • The Nets have top-5 lottery odds in a strong draft but lack their own pick in 2027.
    • Rob Mahoney: "With that, there’s a real urgency for the Nets to get—and capitalize on—THIS pick."
• Kyle evaluates the 2026 draft’s top tier—potential “franchise roadmap” setters, making asset management critical.
• Discussion of MPJ’s strange situation: not quite a team’s “North Star,” more a premium “No. 2 or 3,” appealing to teams like the Pistons, Spurs, and maybe Warriors or Blazers.
  • Justin Verrier: "You don't want to step on who you can get in the draft... for the Nets, I'd try to clear the decks." (23:23)
  • Blazers are floated as a trade partner: Shaden Sharpe for MPJ, with Jeremy Grant involved as salary ballast.
  • General consensus: MPJ's role is evolving, and trade value is uniquely high given his unusual scoring skill set and positional scarcity.

b. Nick Claxton (Nets)

(28:17–35:12)

• Kyle’s high-profile pick.
• Praised as a “big who checks every box”—vertical lob threat, defensive versatility, short-roll passing.
  • "There aren't many guys… who provide vertical spacing, defensive versatility, and passing. Claxton does all of that." (Kyle, 28:30)
• Fit scenarios include Lakers (“perfect with Luka”—C, 30:16), but lingering questions about his slight frame and suitability against Western Conference size.
• Claxton is perennially rumored in trades but always remains with the Nets; compared to Miles Turner’s years of rumored movement with the Pacers.
  • Rob Mahoney: "There has to be some offer that has come through Brooklyn that's enticing… Nick Claxton simply cannot be moved." (34:29)

c. Joel Embiid (76ers) – The Nuclear Option

(35:21–42:21)

• Justin’s wild-card pick: “I think it’s time to trade Joel Embiid.”
• Tangible risk in Embiid’s health and ballooning contract ($67.4M player option in 2029).
• Hosts examine possible trade packages:
  • Raptors: Poeltl, RJ Barrett, “sweetener”
  • Knicks: Karl-Anthony Towns
  • Clippers: Zubac, CP3, expirings
  • Heat: Wiggins and Rozier for salary clearing
• Realistic return deemed limited; most teams balk at Embiid’s risk profile.
  • Rob Mahoney: "Even with everything with Embiid… he's still more hypothetically useful to [the Sixers] than the risk would justify on the other side." (37:45)
  • Embiid as a “ticking time bomb”—for both Sixers and potential suitors. “It just drags your entire organization down.” (41:45)

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3. Intriguing Trade Deadline Players: Lower-Profile Tier

(44:20–67:28)

a. Simone Fontecchio (Heat) & Jeremy Sochan (Spurs): The Swap Theory

(44:30–48:59)

• Kyle proposes: Fontecchio to Spurs (desperate for spot-up shooting), Sohan to the Heat for his hustle and defensive versatility—“lower-level Draymond.”
  • "Simone Fontecchio could give them a shooting wing to up their conversion, while Miami gets a high-motor, high-feel guy." (C, 45:03)
  • Rob Mahoney: Appreciates the trade’s fit but notes: "He [Sohan] might be a record scratch in Miami’s offense, but Spoelstra will figure it out."
  • Sohan’s value is high yet difficult to gauge; Spurs may want more, but Miami should “call it in today.”

b. Kobe White (Bulls): Underappreciated Creator

(49:01–55:48)

• Bulls don’t seem eager to pay White, despite his steady growth.
  • “A very good NBA player… if you’re not going to pay Kobe, will this be the one time the Bulls get out in front of a problem?” (B, 49:05)
• Best fits: Wolves (as Ant’s partner), Rockets (stopgap creator/scorer).
  • Rob Mahoney: "For Minnesota, Kobe White would be awesome if they could possibly get that done."
  • Reluctance about what the Bulls would want; speculative “middle” future first for Kobe as a rental.
  • Kyle: Warns that White “can consume a lot of oxygen”—may suit Rockets better than Timberwolves.

c. Robert Williams (Blazers/Celtics): The Perennial What-If

(57:26–62:12)

• Classic trade rumor mainstay: great when available, but “when available” is always the question.
  • Justin Verrier: Pitches Rob Williams returning to Boston for Sam Hauser to bolster the Celtics’ big-man rotation.
    • “Williams could level-up most situations, but you’re leaving it up to risk that he’ll play.” (58:15)
  • Rob Mahoney: Cautions that Boston needs rebounders more than shot blockers; Hauser’s steadiness may be preferred.
• Williams compared to Miles Turner as a “forever trade candidate but rarely moved.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Giannis trade PR games:
  "This seems like the first step of what is an inevitability but is actually just a PR framing in order to make it seem like both parties are on the same page."
  — Justin Verrier, (04:56)

• On Giannis’s dilemmas:
  “...everything about this that would be required of him to nudge his way out the door would require him to sort of contradict everything that his brand as a player has been built on…”
  — J. Kyle Mann, (07:03)

• On Nets draft urgency:
  “The Nets need a Bobs and Dugnut type. Just a real blue chipper.”
  — Rob Mahoney, (18:10)
  (Joking about prospect names, but reflecting real urgency in Brooklyn’s asset accumulation.)

• On Nick Claxton’s fit:
  “I think Claxton is a really good player, man… gives you playmaking in the short roll, 1.4 blocks, 7.5 rebounds…an efficient dude who knows who he is.”
  — J. Kyle Mann, (28:30)

• On Embiid’s trade value:
  “Even with everything going on with Embiid…he’s still more hypothetically useful to them than the risk would justify on the other side of a deal.”
  — Rob Mahoney, (37:45)

• On Kobe White's situation:
  “If you’re not going to pay Kobe White, will this be the one time, and I mean the one time, that this Bulls front office gets out in front of a problem before it manifests?”
  — Rob Mahoney, (49:05)

• On Blazers/Celtics trade rumor recycling:
  “I think [Rob Williams] is going to end up as their Miles Turner. We’re going to put him in rumors for a decade…”
  — Justin Verrier, (35:04)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Giannis trade discussion, PR spin, and top suitors:
  03:24 – 15:38
• MPJ’s trade value, Nets’ tank, Portland proposal:
  16:10 – 27:32
• Nick Claxton on the move – potential fits and value limits:
  28:17 – 35:12
• Joel Embiid’s impossible trade market:
  35:21 – 42:21
• Lower-profile player swaps, especially Fontecchio–Sohan:
  44:30 – 48:59
• Kobe White’s value and fit for Wolves, Rockets:
  49:01 – 55:48
• Blazers/Celtics, Robert Williams loop (Hauser swap):
  57:26 – 62:12

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Tone and Style

The episode is rich in basketball analysis, laced with The Ringer’s usual sharp banter, deep knowledge of league dynamics, and irreverent asides. The hosts don’t just break down contracts and statistics—they paint stories of how personalities, organizational incentives, and league history shape the market. There are jokes and side-tangents, but the core is always strategic: “What does this mean for the league’s balance of power?”

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Summary Takeaway

This is a must-listen for anyone invested in the NBA trade deadline—not for the splashy rumor-mongering, but for the razor-sharp insight into how teams weigh risk, personality, fit, timing, and the ever-moving mosaic of the league. The discussion makes clear that deadline moves aren’t just about talent; they’re about identity, window, and avoiding the mistakes of yesterday.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier. Joining me, Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann. A bit of an unplanned absence on Sunday, we took the podcast off, obviously, I think everything going on in Minneapolis, we were pretty upset and disgusted by what happened out there. And I think we had unfortunately planned a pretty silly episode. We were going to draft mid players and it just didn't feel like that was appropriate given all the situation going on there. And with the snow coming for Kyle, I think the timing didn't work out. So we apologize for not being around on Sunday. I think people expect us to be there no matter what happens, and I take that responsibility pretty seriously. But obviously circumstances beyond our control led to us taking that one out.

[B]

Yes, but look, the MID players draft will resume at some point. I would only hope. Justin. Right?

[A]

I think so. I mean, it was tied specifically to the midpoint of the NBA season. As we were actually kind of plotting this out, I was like, what are we actually going to talk about? Because the whole bit is these guys are just fine. Like they're just okay players. That's why we were doing it. And I just don't know what to say about just okay players, but I guess we'll find out at a later date.

[B]

We're not to be determined.

[A]

Yeah, just sort of a.

[C]

A mid theme. Yeah. I think inevitably we were going to be creating bullets and board material for certain players. That's what I was imagining was me being a player and listening that. What, you know, I could just. It seems like an inherently insulting exercise for players. So I don't know, I was excited to provide that motivation for somebody. Look at you.

[A]

You mentioned Hunter Dickinson and I had to look him up to find out what Ross. Yeah, that's the thing. Like, what's the difference between MID and bad?

[B]

Oh, it's a. It's a wide chasm.

[A]

Yeah, I. I think it's like a no if you see it sort of thing. I think it's like pornography.

[B]

See, now we're getting into an episode we're not even doing today. So let's. Well, let's table all MID related discussions because we're going to have these definitional debates at some point.

[A]

That's right. Okay, well, why don't we take a break? When we come back, we'll do today's episode.

[D]

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[A]

So I woke up this morning and my neck hurt. And so for the next four to six weeks I might be out of this podcast, but much like Giannis in that regard. But unlike Giannis, I am not ready for a new home. Which is what we found out today from Sean Sorani. I'm ten toes down, baby. All the way in Portland. At least until the mortgage rates drop.

[B]

I gotta say that was a long walk from, from your pains to your home to Giannis to wanting a new location. Like yeah, I mean it was, it was a meander but we got there.

[A]

So today was the first, the first kind of step.

[C]

There was a dog next to me, surprised.

[A]

We got the first I, I will call it a baby step toward Giannis. I think eventually leaving Milwaukee. We were all waiting for this. Shams is recording this on Wednesday morning. Drop this about like 9am Pacific on Wednesday. So if you're tracking this at home, because I do think one, I have two thoughts here actually. I think one, this is just so silly that we're getting this whole like half step of like oh well now they might start listening or they're ready to start listening. I've started picturing in my head like John horse waving the Indianapolis 500 FL. And then all of a sudden these guys take off their noise canceling headphones ready to listen. Finally, after two years in the darkness, my second take here is that I actually think that this is important. And if anything, this seems like the first step of what is an inevitability but is actually just a PR framing in order to make it seem like both parties are on the same page and everybody divorces happily as possible.

[B]

So this non. Update. Update, do you think is an actual update?

[A]

Yeah, because the way this usually works is they're giving shams the. The. The break. The news break, so that he will frame it in a certain way. And so I imagine, much like we've seen with Woj in past years, be like really going step by step to make sure that this is like an everyone on the same page sort of thing. But then Wind Horse is on the side being like, no, it's actually done. What the fuck are you talking about? This. This is very reminiscent of that. And so I actually think that this is more of a. Like a. A point. Like a point in the chart, I guess, of the inevitable conclusion.

[C]

I'm pretty fascinated by said chart because I'm trying to imagine something with a dial that has very small, you know, lines of increments that as we were just kind of turning it towards. I'd just be appreciative if someone would like map that out. Maybe that's something we can do for social. You know, we're thinking about being ready to listen, you know, what's the next sort of sound? Small step beyond that. I'm with you, though, jv. I can't remember if it was the other day, what was the story that you said you were really annoyed by? And I acted all high and mighty like it didn't even.

[B]

It was a Giannis. Yeah, it was a Giannis related thing, but I can't remember what that development was.

[A]

I can't either. But we've gotten versions of this before. This is the first close to definitive, like, sort of framing that we've seen because he is, in quotes, at least from Seams, ready for a new home, which is different, even though marginally so.

[B]

It's true. And I think it's also reflecting a difference in, if not actual opinion and stance than projection from the Milwaukee Bucks side as well, where everything from the Bucks to this point has been. We would never trade Giannis unless he basically asks us for a trade to now, you know, being ready to potentially, hypothetically listen. That's something.

[C]

Yeah. You know, what you say and what you feel being two key different things. Right. What you say being the respect that you want to pay to Giannis for all. All the years and all the. And in the internal. The systems running below the surface are like, we got to do something here or else we're going to be in a really tough situation. And then, I mean, I would assume that's what it's all kind of driven by. Is the posturing. Right. I mean, it just all has seemed like that, like Giannis just not really wanting to betray. I think we talked about this a couple months ago about, you know, everything. Everything about this that would require. That would be required of him to, you know, nudge his way out the door would require him to sort of contradict everything that his brand as a player has been built on. Right. And it's just like we're always, like Giannis says, the right thing, salt of the earth, consummate teammate, locker room guy, plays the right way, things like that. For him to do this, it just would be. It would. It would cause him to sort of go the other direction and behave the way superstars have behaved in the way in the. In the. I guess in the. The decision era. Right. Which it's just not been his brand at this point.

[B]

No. I mean, look, life is posturing in a lot of ways, but so much about this, Kyle, you're right. Is like, what are the steps that need to be taken so I can actually ask for the thing that I want without people thinking I'm an asshole for it. And that's apparently been a long process for Giannis. You can see him almost like waffling in real time based on some of even like post game quotes or like moments of frustration. And I, I would hope that there's some clarity in this in his current injury and where the Bucks are. Like, there is not a resolution to this season that's going to make those parties feel great about where everything stands. So it makes sense to kind of kick the tires and listen, take some calls and figure out what else might be out there.

[A]

I also took note that within the report, it specifically outlines that this could happen in the off season or at the deadline. So they're keeping open the possibility for both windows if it does happen at the deadline, which I think we would all probably agree is a little bit trickier, if only because teams are already built, the money's already stacked in a certain way, and it's just hard to unspool at that point. Is there any team that you guys like at the front of the line now that the doors are at the very least like a little bit of crack open?

[B]

Yeah, I don't love any of the deadline options for exactly that reason. Like, I want to open the derby to everybody involved because I think the most interesting Giannis teams are some that are like, a little counterintuitive or teams that are already quite good that could completely reimagine who they are around Giannis, and they're just not going to do that with so little left to play in the regular season and everything already in progress. So that's why, like, the summer outcome feels a lot more likely to me, not just from those teams wanting to get in the race, but from Milwaukee. Like, that's the way you drum up interest. That's the way you get a competitive market going. That's the way you don't be Nico Harrison and just talk to one team and take the first deal that's put in front of you.

[C]

Yeah. I think that there are some interesting things in play here, is that if you're thinking short term and you're thinking we need Giannis, like, right now, because desperation, obviously, is going to motivate some people to do this. There is the calf thing. I mean, and however much you believe in that, I don't know if you guys have an opinion medically on where he is with that. That increasingly becomes a more and more serious thing, because if you throw the kitchen sink at this guy who I know Bucks fans are always fighting about, you guys are wishing his life away.

[A]

He's.

[C]

I'm like, okay, he's on the. Well, can we at least agree that he's on the other side of his prime on the way? Like, you know, he's over 30, and the way he plays. I'm not trying to, like, you know, march him towards the grave or anything, saying this. I'm just saying he.

[B]

He.

[C]

He's on the downward side, I would say, of his prime. So if you're gonna. If you're gonna trade for him, you gotta keep that in mind. The severity and the seriousness of that Achilles does seem like it's going around, but just my last thing on this. But the. The other thing that I think is interesting for me, you're talking about teams disrupting what they do. My mind goes to dis. To desperate teams more. And I think about the Warriors. And I think about the warriors, those 2030 picks. To me, if this is just going to be one last push for them and then they explode. Those 2030 picks seem pretty interesting to me. If I'm the Bucks.

[B]

Entirely fair. I just want to push back on one point, which is Giannis, when he has been on the floor, has been exceptional this season, having.

[C]

I'm not saying he's not.

[B]

I'm just saying we're. We're.

[C]

We're. We're just projecting with how long how you have to think about these things.

[A]

Rob, the Injuries I think are, are mounting over a few years. This being his second calf strain, I've taken note of that. He plays so hard that it really is the defining characteristic of his game.

[B]

Yeah, I, I just think in terms of framing what his prime is and will be. I, I don't. Look, the facts are what they are by age, by injury history. Yes. All of those things would seem to suggest that he would be like tipping over into the next stage of his prime. And yet as he does it, he's having his most efficient season to date and has looked dominant every second he's been on the floor. So it's like even a post prime Giannis, if that's what we're in, like in line for what his next team is in line for. Pretty fucking awesome player.

[A]

Yeah, I think I agree with what everyone's saying and I do think the motivating factors point toward just one team right now, and that's the team that we were talking about over the off season as the only team that got the phone call, which is the New York Knickerbockers. They've been better recently, sort of. They won three straight games as we're recording this. But I just think the forces that would have stopped them from really pushing forward on this no longer exist, in part because Carl Anthony Towns is just not the type of guy that like, it seems like they even want around, let alone like, like covet as like a critical, essential part of what they're doing there. Plus Dolan going out there being like, we need to make the Finals and we expect certain things, like all of these things point to the Knicks. I also took great interest and I'm going to prep you in advance. I'm going to talk about the Portland Trailblazers here, but if you, if you follow some of the newsy folks out there, Mark Stein in particular, they have started to pinpoint the Blazers as a potential third team in this, in part because I thought you were going to.

[B]

Pitch like a too many for Giannis straight up.

[A]

No, I mean the Blazers would need more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But because they own a lot of the Bucks future picks, could they get involved? And there's some suggesting like maybe the Knicks are interested in Drew and Bridges gets rerouted to Portland and some of the Bucks future picks go back to Milwaukee. That makes more sense to me because I never understood it from Milwaukee's point of view. Why would you want a Bridges, an OG or even a Cat? If you're thinking long term, you want more future assets, you don't Want a pretty good current asset. And so triangulating those three things, like, I took note of that, that seems a little more specific than you would get at this stage.

[B]

Well, this is what we're going to learn, hopefully over these next couple weeks as just even these conversations or listening sessions intensify, is. What is it that the Bucks want? Because I, I agree with you in theory, they should be taking a longer view. Right. They should be looking to do more of a hard reset, invest in young prospects, take chances on guys while the opportunity is there to do it. I have a sneaking suspicion that might not be the way they go. And it may be a little bit more of like a. A middle tier veteran, near all star level kind of return for them where they look to be at least pretty good in the interim. And to be fair, like, they could be pretty good in the east still, even without Giannis, if, If they reshuffle and get good players in return who are ready to go, that might be enough to kind of keep them in the mix. Not what I would do, but I could see especially like an Eastern Conference middle of the pack team talking themselves into that.

[C]

Yeah, I think I'm not doing. I'm not threatening it in the middle at all. I don't think I would feel pretty dissatisfied if I'm a Bucks fan. If we went through all of that and then we end up with someone that basically his past two teams have been chronically unhappy with. With Cat, it's a guy who has just been finicky and for Bass, you know, he'll look brilliant at one point and then. And then just make you want to pull your hair out the next moment, you know, and then I guess was Bridges the other person? The money there wouldn't make any sense there. And that's.

[A]

I just talked to my accountant.

[B]

Yeah, but that's, that's why you need kind of third team involvement to make something like that kind of make sense. And I gotta say, Justin, your Blazers do, like, fit that particular bill. They have a good combination of, like, veterans on deals who can move young players who might be interesting if you want to even expand the deal further. Like, they could be a waystation for a lot of different kinds of trades.

[A]

Yeah, it's unfortunate. I tried to avoid them in our picks for today's episode, but they really do hit all the boxes of a team that, like, probably wants to compete in the here and now, but has all of these different parts that they could either keep or not keep. And it really comes down to preference and Choice and I unfortunately picked one. So just. Just to prep you in advance for.

[C]

That, I was going to ask you what a tease into what we're doing here today because it seems like inevitably it would.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, let's get to it then. We are doing today our most intriguing players at the trade deadline. We'll get to the teams on Sunday, but we're talking about players that are just interesting to us at this stage, about a week out from the February 5th trade deadline. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the biggest names on the market. We don't have to talk about Anthony Davis for the 19th time, although we can if you guys want. Mine is way off the board, so I think I should go last. We're each going to do like a high profile player and then a less high profile player. Rob, do you want to start with yours?

[B]

Yeah, I will start high profile with Michael Porter Jr. A player who I think we all agreed. Right. Had penciled in for our all star team, has had an amazing season for the Nets. And I think it's interesting for a couple of reasons. One, because he has been that good and has taken steps forward and is kind of ready for a middle ground role where he's doing maybe more than he was for the Nuggets but less than he is for the Nets. That could be appealing to a great number of contenders, I would think. But also because Brooklyn finds themselves in a pretty weird spot right now where the bottom of the league feels catchable in terms of the draft odds for the Brooklyn Nets. And Kyle, I would love to get your take on this because right now Brooklyn has the fifth best odds to get the number one pick. My understanding is that this is a draft where the top four ish guys for sure are real catches, maybe five. And is there, is there a bit of a drop after that or where do you see kind of the drop in prospects between the first tier and the second tier in this draft?

[C]

There's been a lot of argument recently about how firm the tippy top tier is, whether or not I think people are pretty sure that it includes Darren Peterson and Cam Boozer. There's been a lot of argument recently about DeBonta, but I think that's, I mean, that's a little more in the weeds, granular. But I think in terms of getting something that is. Could potentially affect the direction of a franchise or just be a high impact asset draft player, a draftable player, that line I think is hazy, which is really interesting. Like I think, I think the top of this draft, there, there are teams that are going to come away with really, really good players. I think even in the top 10, like, it's very, very strong. There have been some guys who have, have come on. If the Nets even end up in the 7 to 10 range, 7 to 12 range, they could come a really impactful player. I think I, I could rattle. I was thinking the other day whenever you all asked me about draft names, I could just, I was contemplating just saying, saying like Bobs and Doug Nut or just something. Just make it like, because when we get into these, I, I start talking and I just see you guys nodding.

[A]

It's a wing from Toledo.

[B]

I mean, for one, I love Bobs and Doug Nut. You know, that's, that's my kind of guy. But, but honestly, they need that kind of player because part of the problem here for the, they need a Bobs.

[C]

And dug nut, they need a Pops.

[B]

And dug nut type. Just a real blue chipper. The Nets don't have possession of their pick next year. Right. They owe it in a swap to the Rockets, which I would say 27. Yeah, yeah, and 27, I should say. And so like this is kind of the draft pick that they need to use and capitalize on. And so with that, I think there's kind of the dual urgency of who out there is desperate enough and intrigued enough in what MPG has put together this season as an all around score, as a creator, even as like a passer, like has just been a really effective player across the board. And then how desperate are the Nets going to be to potentially bottom out in a way that could ensure their ability to get a Bobs and Doug Nut type to ensure their ability? Like this is one of those things where we talk about the flat draft odds all the time in terms of what it means for the number one pick. But there's a huge difference in odds if you are the worst record in the league versus the third or fourth in where your, your bottom is right, like, and where the floor of where you will select is. And if you can, I mean it's planted here all the time. I'm a very grounded person, Justin. I don't know if you know this about me, but like anything the Nets can do to protect themselves from falling out of that elite range wherever they deem it to be, I think they should investigate.

[A]

See Kyle processing?

[C]

No, I just, I just like, I was just processing Rob's quippy answer, per usual. And then I was like, what motivated Justin to ask, where's your bottom?

[B]

Well, you already know what motivated him. He's. He's a man with one thing on the mind at all times.

[A]

I'm all about the bottoms. So here's my thing with the Nets. I think for a while we were fretting over if they were tanking hard enough. But then the new year happened and all of a sudden they're like, now we got this. Michael Porter Jr. Has still been pretty solid overall and it hasn't mattered at all. Last night's game against the Sun, I think was the shining example of it where things got a little messy at the end. There was like an almost fight, but like watching them trying to create open look for him on a crucial crunch time. Possession was just a total mess. They have won just two games since December 29th, and they've won just one game since January 4th. And so I find myself, because of the restrictions on next year, that there is this weird, like almost gap year where they do need to land a pick now and not later. I think they've at the very least created leverage for themselves where they don't have to trade Porter, if only because they need something for this draft pick next year and whatever they can scrap together in free agency.

[B]

It is true. I would just say this. That tanking season has only just begun, right? Like the shenanigans in which these teams are really fighting for the bottom spots in the standings. Like, we've barely even begun to scratch the surface of what the Utah Jazz are capable of. So you really have to be careful if you're the Nets to just not fall out of that range of. Again, it's just wherever their scouting department thinks that line is between the best prospects and the other ones. But like, I think there's a real opportunity for them here to get good stuff in return for Michael Porter Jr. A guy who is a definitively helpful player right now, but also not old by any means, but distinctly older than whatever the rest of their core is and kind of figure out and crystallize around the 2026 pick, whatever the return for MPJ could be, and whichever of the rookies that they currently have that you like the best between, you know, Jaeger and everyone else, what ultimately like the basis of the Nets next effective Nets team is going to be.

[C]

I think what we're looking at when we look at the Nets, I always use the roadmap kind of comparison of, you know, as a franchise, you want that player that is going to define your map. Like most, most teams are just kind of when they're not Winning. They're wandering in the wilderness and then you get a Cooper flag and you're like, okay, we have our map. Now we kind of know the direction or what we need to build around.

[B]

You're not building around for charts and maps, I gotta say. Just topography. Huge on this pod, you know, like we're really routing ourselves.

[A]

Taking his corner.

[B]

Yeah, that is Kirk.

[C]

I'm just lobbing this one to Kirk. Yeah. I just think that if we look at the Nets and I was thinking about Cam Thomas too, which is always a harrowing exercise in and of itself, but I was thinking about Cam Thomas and I'm like, I think I'm one of the best scorers in the league. I'm paid like five and a half million dollars. You know, it just seems like they have some guys that they're lacking direction in. If we're just looking at on the court, what they need somebody to stir the drink and be a threat off the bounce as a score. Would you say that that can also pass? Is that kind of what we're saying? Because Porter Jr. Is sort of an accessory that you tie on to somebody who can create offense and draw gravity. Right. We know we can make shots off the dribble. Don't necessarily want him making decisions all the time. So it's like there. There are some guys in this draft to give you some homework. But just really quickly here. I mean, there's Kingston Flemings from Houston, and then there's Keaton Wagler. These are guys who have just gone off. Those are two capable candidates that could come in for them. And. But I just wanted to ask you guys, I mean, do you all think that that's what they're lacking? Is it just a prototypical idea of a star or is it a specific skill set like that? Like, they need somebody who can be a playmaking heavy load decision maker.

[A]

I just think they need a North Star overall, and I just don't want to. Yeah, yeah. I just don't necessarily think that MPJ is that, but I think you're right. I think he's like a good 2 or 3 on an already an established team. And so for a team like the Pistons, I think the spurs would make sense as something of a Harrison Barnes upgrade. I do think that makes a natural swap there, because if you get someone, I think the problem with the team like the Nets or any of these teams that are projected to go high in the lottery is you don't want to step on the possibility of what you can get in the draft. You Want, you don't want to put yourself into a position where it's like, oh, I have MPJ or I traded for something else. For instance, we talked about the Wizards with Zion, but all of a sudden there's a perfect four and then, oh no, we have to like push him over to the three and like force them to do that. Basically what happened with Cooper Flag. And so for the Nets, I would be trying to clear the decks, I think overall, and just provide that player with as much of an open roadway as possible.

[B]

Yeah, I think they can be open minded to your, your conversation here, Kyle, about what that player looks like. Like there really is nothing in terms of the rookies that they've drafted. Like guys have popped at different times. You know, you've obviously had like some good moments from Jagor. Drake Powell finally getting some opportunity is like Danny Wolf in whatever capacity you envision him being an NBA player in the grand scheme of things, like, has impressed, I think, I think as far as like a potential contributor to this Nets team, but isn't going to be setting the stage or defining things in the way we're talking about. But you're right, Justin. It's like as far as the market, I think that's where the conversation gets interesting. Like who are the MPJ teams? You mentioned Detroit, you mentioned San Antonio, Milwaukee. I think the YANA stuff probably rules it out. Maybe there was a pipe dream at some point, but I think we can kind of cross them off the board at this point. Golden State probably doesn't have the same urgency to trade for someone like MPJ now that they did before Jimmy's injury. But we've also seen teams over the last, I don't know, two seasons or so invest in the idea of like we're going to trade now for the guy that we really need next season and just kind of like make our big move now as opposed to the off season. Maybe the warriors see themselves as that kind of team. But this is my turn to put on my flannel and to welcome the Portland Trailblazers into this conversation because I gotta say, I feel like there is a vision of a trade involving like Shaden Sharp going to the Nets and MPJ coming back to the Blazers. And the contract stuff gets tricky because I think Jeremy Grant would have to be involved and that almost necessitates a third team that would give the Blazers something. Because Jeremy Grant, while maybe not worth exactly what he's paid, is still a good and useful NBA player and they would need something in return for that beyond just getting mpj, but I kind of like what he could be for the Blazers. I like the idea of that kind of space, like a real big time shot maker alongside all of this length and activity and defense that they have at their disposal.

[A]

Literally anybody who can make an open three pointer.

[B]

It would be nice.

[A]

Yeah, I like it. In theory, it makes them a little big on the wings, and I can't decide whether or not that's a good or bad thing because it would necessitate that they play MPJ. Denny and Tomani basically at 2 through 4. I think you could run some interesting small ball units, and I think that they started to do so earlier in the season, but now Denny has a back injury and so that complicates things. I don't hate it, but I don't love it as like, for what they're going to target. I think they need shooting on a lower end as a rotation player, not as like the big swing, is what.

[B]

I would say for them. I mean, that really is the pause, you know, if you are. If you are the Blazers, when do you take that big calculated risk? And is MPJ the kind of player you do that for? I think he's earned a place in that consideration. Like having this talk, throwing the things at the wall, seeing what sticks. I. I don't know that I would have anticipated for that when he left the Nuggets that he would ever become this caliber of player. But it's what makes him such a target at the deadline. It's what makes him so appealing to so many different potentially winning teams. I think it's what makes him like, ultimately the kind of target that a front office can talk itself into because of what he brings to the table. That's like so exceptional in such a specific way.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Do we want to move along to your pick, Kyle?

[C]

I was going to say we need to, you know, relieve Denny. Denny's poor back from carrying too much so that he doesn't get overburdened and punked by Keyshawn George. Right?

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

Tough one.

[B]

You hate to see it. And by hate, I love to see it. But the fact that you don't go.

[A]

Back into D.C. and just get a win, you know, it's a tough sign.

[B]

The fact that I could gain ground in our now ongoing Blazers vs Suns bet while the Wizards get a huge win via Keyshawn George against the Blazers. I mean, just one of the happiest days of my life, if I'm being honest with you.

[A]

And then you watch the Suns almost lose to the Nets.

[B]

Almost being the key word. Almost.

[C]

God, here we go.

[A]

Kyle, what do you have?

[C]

I. Funny, funny. Funnily enough here, I'm sticking with the Nets. I think that Nick Claxton is an interesting player. That's who I was going to bring up.

[A]

So he's your high end.

[B]

This is your high file.

[C]

I don't know what that says about me or what I value, but Nick Claxton is a really good player, man. No, I mean, now listen to me, God damn it. I think when you look at across the scope of the league, I think we get drawn to the types of guys that I was describing forward that give us our maps, our, you know, our star players who are scoring and drawing gravity and being efficient in their decision making and things like that. But I think guys that check multiple boxes are really, really important to bolster those types of players. And I think that I don't think that's a radical idea at all. And I just don't think that there are many guys across the league who provide a. The vertical spacing lob threat. It's, you know, the hoity toity way of saying lob threat. The defensive versatility there and then the passing. I don't think that you're getting a ton of guys who do those things this year. You know, Claxton, not a big time score, but he's somebody you don't have to run anything for. He's somebody that just accumulates baskets, but he gives you playmaking in the short roll. 4 assists per game this year for a guy of his defensive versatility is pretty wild. 1, 1.4 blocks and 7 and a half rebounds. Just an efficient dude who knows who he is. I wanted to kind of just throw this conversation to you guys about, you know, I'm looking at the teams the warriors get brought up a lot on. People were talking about them. I was like, I don't really think, I don't understand why I would do that if I'm the Warriors, but if I'm the Lakers, I would be really trying hard to get Nick Claxton. Because I think it jumps to this question also that shoots off of this. What would it take for you to consider getting off of Austin Reaves? And do you see a future of. If we're building around Luka? We did all. We moved heaven and earth to get Luca. What types of players would you want to surround him with? Claxton, to me, feels like a perfect pairing with Luka Doncic. Does he rise to the level of an Austin Reeves, though, I throw to you all.

[B]

No, he does not. I think pretty definitively you would have to get a lot more back than just Nick Claxton. But as a starting point, I love the concept. Justin, are you, are you on board with Nick Claxton as the Los Angeles Laker?

[A]

Yeah, I would say I am a Nick Claxton optimist overall, because watching him move so fluidly around the court as his size is just like something to behold. And I do feel like there's another level to his offensive game that isn't tapped because he just hasn't been playing with a lot of creators since he started in the league with, with Kyrie and those guys, unfortunately, I just find, like, because he's so slender and it doesn't feel like he's ever going to bulk up to the point where he's like, beyond that, you do have to marry him with another big in a rotation because he does get pushed around at times. And I do feel like there's some big old boys in the, in the Western Conference in particular. And so if you're the Lakers and you're thinking, like, oh, this is going to push us forward, well, it's like, like the Rockets are out there, obviously. Jokic is out there, the Thunder, very physical. And so for that reason, it's kind of a sticking point. So it's like, if it's Claxton, it's fine, but I need Claxton plus somebody else in order to make it work. And for that reason, I, I, I pause at the very least, but I like it just like, in terms of a fit with Luca, this is kind.

[B]

Of the roadblock you run into with the Lakers too, where if you want to, like, just completely turn over their front court, how do you do that when LeBron is still a part of it and playing well and we don't really know what his future is going to be. And so it's like he's kind of locked in at the four effectively. Like, they can, they can pretend they can try to plug in other players at that position, ostensibly, but that is what it is until further notice. And a LeBron Nick Claxton front court for this season is not bad. But is that the kind of ult. Is that the athleticism and the, the size and the physicality that you want at that position? I think that's asking a lot of LeBron.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean, just speaking to the Claxton le, the idea of Claxton leaving the nets in general I mean, do you all think that he's somebody. Let's say they just stand pat. They traded mpj. I mean, Claxton would interface pretty well with the types of guys that I was describing that they would be targeting in the draft. He'd be somebody that came in. If you had. If you had a guy, let's say you just somehow you strike gold and you get a Darren Peterson. I watched a ton of Darren Peterson this past weekend. I mean, just seems like he's somebody that is going to be phenomenal. Toggling between being on the ball, making decisions, and then toggling off the ball as a movement shooter, he's great. I recommend you go watch him if you haven't. But he's somebody that would, I think, click right into place with a Claxton. I always think of the Robin Big. The Clicka Claxton. Did you guys watch Robin Big at all? Robin Big fans here.

[B]

What are you talking about, Kyle?

[C]

That's a no.

[B]

That's a hard. I. I'm. I'm completely in the dark. I don't even know what genre of thing you are referencing.

[C]

The public will side with me on this. I know they will. Anyway, another thing, there's some more homework, but. No, I mean, do you think that is he somebody that they're going to decide to keep? Is kind of my question ultimately, because I think he mentioned value.

[A]

I think it's funny you mentioned Peterson, because as I was scrolling through the teams in my head, I was like, oh, Memphis with jaw actually has a nice little synergy, I think. Actually Claxton's from the Carolinas, so vaguely from Georgia region.

[C]

Is that kind of the region?

[A]

No, like, like originally from, like, Georgia or. I know he went to college at Georgia. He's from the fucking Carolina. I'm gonna like, get a. Like a noisemaker here and just.

[C]

You just want to get one over so bad, right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. Greenville, South Carolina. You got me.

[A]

Let's George go George on the brain.

[B]

Which, for the record, is not Memphis, but Georgia.

[A]

Well, where is Ja from?

[C]

Josh from South Carolina.

[B]

Okay, there you go. So there's a couple of South Carolina boys.

[A]

You're saying you. He's. He's good over there.

[C]

Look at that guy.

[A]

I knew where a couple NBA players were from.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

But no, but, like, jaw having that sort of like short lob thing that he does where he stops right from the pain, lofts it up. Like, Claxton can go up and get it for them. I don't know. What they would give up for that. But there's some synergy there and, like, is jogging to still be in Memphis. I don't know. But for that reason, I think Peterson makes some sense. Different players, but, like, different, sort of broadly same types.

[C]

Peterson is better than Ja. I just want to be on. Go on the record. He will be.

[A]

Right now, you're saying, love, that he.

[C]

Will be better than John Moran. Yeah, I think. I don't think that's controversial at all.

[B]

I can't wait to see it. I look forward to getting to know these guys as actual players in the future, but for now, I find the same problem with Claxton that we've had for, I don't know, four years running, which is he is a very appealing player to a lot of different contexts, and he has been a Brooklyn Net that entire time, despite, I would think, some pretty powerful motivation on their part to move him. You know, like, there has to be some offer that has come through Brooklyn that is enticing and yet apparently not enticing enough. Nick Claxton simply cannot be moved.

[A]

I think he's going to end up as their Miles Turner. We're going to put him in trade rumors for the next decade, and then all of a sudden, he's going to have one good year and then go to a different team.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And he can be moved on the court, thus he can't be moved off the court. Right. Interesting thing going on here.

[B]

I like what you did.

[C]

Thanks.

[A]

All right, let's go to mine, who might be literally unmovable, at least in terms of trades. I don't know if you guys have seen the Philadelphia 76ers of late, but sure have. They look pretty sprightly. There's a lot going on there. And as a result, I think it's time to trade Joel Embiid, because I can't imagine.

[B]

What are you doing, his trade value.

[A]

Being any higher than it is right now. He catches a lob and to the amusement of everybody, including Embiid, maybe first and foremost, foremost. Like, everyone was just fucking thrilled with it, I thought at that time. At that moment, Daryl Morey picks up the phone and starts calling around, being like, you seen him beat lately?

[C]

Maury, right when that play happened, just said, hey, Siri. Yeah, loudly. I triggered my own Siri.

[A]

Yeah, you call Rob Pelinka. Listen, I know it's tough, but he's playing pretty well.

[B]

Kiss.

[A]

But if you're the Sixers, you're like, this is a ticking time bomb. His leg might explode at any Moment, I think at the very least, he's could be in a discussion. Like, I think you have to entertain this. If Daryl More called your organization, you actually have to think about it for a while.

[B]

But where is the line? Like, what is the best team that has to think about it?

[C]

Who's the pitch? Justin, you got somebody in mind? Go.

[B]

Hit.

[C]

Hit me.

[A]

I have four down here. Okay, well, here's the thing. Like. Like, would you just trade him to clear the decks? I think is ultimately the question if the Raptors, for instance, called you and said, we'll give you Pearl, who has five years on his deal, and he's also dealing with a back injury. So this is a similarly injured center, just at a different level. RJ Barrett, just to make the math work. And just like a sweetener, like just another guy. Faji, you're clear. And Embiid, we're just taking on the risk for the next four years. Are you interested?

[B]

I'm. I'm open to it. I think the problem we're going to run into is, even with everything going on with Embiid, as far as the persistent injury risk, the massive contract which, as you said, extends three more seasons beyond this one, he's still more hypothetically useful to them than the risk would justify on the other side of a deal. And so it's like, I. I'm almost loath to give him up for just that, but at the same time, at the same time, maybe it would be prudent to do it. It's just hard to do.

[C]

The Sixers are fun to watch, man. I put them on my league pass thing. When we talked about it, I felt like people were like, I don't know. It's. It's been stewing. It's been slowly. I mean, pg. It's looking a little. A little sprightly to stew your word. I mean, it's like Back from the Dead, the necromancer took a swoop over Philly. I don't know what happened.

[B]

Kyle, you should have heard the crickets when I tried to advocate for moving Paul George up our top 100 rankings in the meeting, and it was just.

[C]

Love to have overheard that.

[B]

I could not whip vot to get Paul George to move up, unfortunately. But he has been good. It's just.

[A]

It was from, like, 97 to, like, 92. It wasn't a big jump. Well, I have a couple other teams down here. Let me see if this, like, wets your appetite even more. So the Knicks, a team he's long been rumored to sure. It doesn't work as a straight one for once. You'd have to attach, like, a little something just to make the math work. But Embiid, for Towns? Who says no?

[B]

No, I think the Knicks say no. I just think Brunson and Embiid might be fundamentally incompatible.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Would it be the slowest pace since, like, the Detroit Pistons in 2004?

[B]

It might. Well. Like, really glacial stuff. Ultimately, very, very methodical. Very considered. A lot of, like, jab steps and pump fakes involved, but I. I don't. I just don't think they would work well together.

[C]

Yeah, I. I think that's a Drew Hanlon's dream. A lot of pump fakes, a lot of jabs, a lot of step backs. I just. I don't. I think it's a version. It's a sort of a basketball facsimile of what they already have. Like you were saying. In my mind, I was like, okay, let's trade our mercurial up and down, you know, unpredictable guy. I know those are. Those are all words for the same thing for another mercurial guy who likes to shoot. I just think. I don't. I don't think I would pull the trigger on that one if I were the Knicks. And, man, Carl Town's in Philly. I just can't imagine their fans turning. Can you imagine rights to Ricky Sanchez going off?

[A]

I would.

[C]

I would be.

[A]

Would.

[C]

I would be all over that, listening to that daily, hearing them complain about Cat.

[A]

I have two more here. I'll just give you one of them, which I think is the most return value, and it's from Clippers. It's basically expirings. You get CP just so he can hang out with Daryl Moran and reminisce about the good old days, like, five to seven years ago. But Zubotch is really. It's Zubotch for. For Embiid.

[B]

Oh, If I were the Sixers, I would do that immediately.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

If you can get. If you can get Zoo back, like.

[A]

Zubotch, Collins, cp and then there's another expiring. They have a lot of expiring money.

[B]

I would do. I would do it right now.

[A]

I think it's too much. Yeah.

[B]

Like, Joel has been really good, but it's. Again, it's always just like you're waiting for the floor to drop out from underneath you. And Zoo does not give you that feeling. You know, he. Like, he's an imperfect player in certain ways, but ultimately quite reliable. And I think the Sixers, in terms of the broader mental health of the Philadelphia area would stand to benefit from just, like, consistency at the 5 over the next three years.

[C]

Do you want to throw away or do you want to send away your. The. The one like the. One of the only sources of, like, warm blood flow in your defensive lineup if you're the Clippers. I don't. I just don't think I'm doing that. If you. You imagine getting Harden and MB together again on the court, why would I do that?

[A]

I just don't. Compounding Kawhi and Embiid's injury issues together, it's just like if two headaches just make a. Like a crippling migraine, I guess would be the. The case there.

[B]

Like, the odds of everyone being healthy at the right time are pretty low. But if you get that 7, 7, 7 on the slots, you know, like the jackpot cashes out just the same.

[A]

See, this is why it's impossible. Because if we're saying Zubot is too much, I don't know what sort of value in return you can get for Embiid. Yeah, I have Miami down just because they're in the mix for all of these distressed guys, Wiggins and Rosier again, just clearing the decks and.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You basically have whatever money left to do with whatever you want. I guess. Just look at it.

[B]

I'm down for like a khale. Where. Bam. Joel, front court.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Let's just roll those guys out and see what happens. But to be very clear, the reason we're talking about Joel Embiid this way, the injury history is a huge part of it. But, like, that dude is owed, like 60 plus million dollars over the next three seasons. And it's like we've talked all year long about when you have guys who are making that kind of money who aren't available, it just drags your entire organization down. It's almost impossible to build something sustaining that way right now.

[A]

$67.4 million player option at the end there.

[B]

I suspect he will take it.

[A]

I think so as well.

[C]

I would take it if I were him. Yeah.

[B]

Kyle, we weren't offering it to you. We weren't offering you $67 million. I'm sorry.

[A]

All right, let's take one more break. And we come back. We'll do the lower level guys. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is putting you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control no matter how you play. FanDuel's giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game this NBA season. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to make your pick, get in the game and play it your way. 21 in present in select states or 18 in present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Often required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut this.

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[A]

All right, our next tier, the lower level. Although Kyle, I think we should start with you because I'm curious what your lower tier entails. So do you want to give us your your second guy here?

[B]

Can we just say before we hit these guys with lower level. Can we just say lower profile?

[A]

No, they're worse overall.

[B]

I mean it's not untrue, it just seems uncharitable.

[A]

Lesser.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

The distance between those players and LeBron James is smaller than the distance between you and them. Justin. I just want to remind you of that. Just to quote Scalabrini, Scalabrini's famous quote. Do you want me to hit you with my lower tier guys? Is that what you I have a two partner because I'm interested in the idea of swapping one for the other.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

The first lower tier player that I think is interesting is Simone Fontecchio, who I who I think that the Miami Heat could afford to move on his salary and I think that it would be interesting if they sent him to a team that could use some extra shooting with his size, and that's the San Antonio spurs. Because the Spurs, I looked this up, they generate a high number of spot up opportunities, but they don't convert them at a high conversion rate. They're eighth in the league at spot up opportunities and they're 20 seconds and points per possession. And I think that Jeremy Sohan is an interesting asset. So those are my two guys. I think Miami is the type of team that would look at Sochan, a guy who's not fitting into the log jam, the embarrassment of talent, riches that they have and athleticism. And I think they'd view him as a prospect and think they can get a lot out of him. That's the age difference there. You could maybe argue that San Antonio would see him as maybe more valuable, but I think that swap makes a lot of sense even as a framework starting point. What do y' all think about that?

[B]

That I. I kind of like it.

[A]

I love it. I'll go one step farther. Yeah, I love it.

[B]

I will say as far as the San Antonio spot up stuff, I. I take your point. It's obviously true. I do think there's a bit of a complication there positionally because a lot of the reason you going to undermine.

[C]

My synergy stat grab.

[B]

I'm gonna put an asterisk on it and say sacred.

[C]

Part of the reason, part of the.

[B]

Reason those spot ups are not converting is because they're going to like Dylan Harper, they're going to Steph Castle. Right. So it's like those are the shooters who are taking a lot of those opportunities, not the big tech types. If you're going to import him on the wing.

[A]

I'm glad you mentioned Sohan though, because he showed up, I believe in Mark Stein's newsletter recently.

[B]

He did.

[A]

And I think anyone, any fan of any team looked at that and like, let's get this guy because on the one hand he does need to get paid. I believe he's going to restrict free agency this off season, but he just seems like the type of guy that we would fit around any team, especially a team that has an abundance of shooting so that he could fit into that like lower level Draymond role. But I thought he'd really popped playing bench minutes earlier in the season just because he gives so much of a shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you can just start from that base level and then pile on top some of the more nuanced stuff and like take advantage of some of his high feel and passing ability. I would love to take a risk on him. And I think the, the Heat are probably right, right at the front of the line of that team. Sort of like list of teams.

[B]

I mean this is an organization where Udonis Haslam is a patron saint, you know, like someone like a Jeremy Sohan type. Although he doesn't have like the mid range finesse that Haslam did, you would think could really appeal to their sensibilities. And I think the, the one issue with him in Miami present tense is he doesn't really fit with their current style of offense. Given that he can't really create in one on one situations basically at all. Like he might be kind of a record scratch element that they would have to work around. But also, let's be real, they're, they're running this offense because of the roster that they have and as soon as that changes, Eric's bolster will evolve accordingly. So if it's a good value deal and they like ultimately what Sohan could bring them and I think there's reason to believe that they should, may maybe you just take a swing and figure out the rest later.

[C]

Sohan could play next to Khalil Ware too.

[B]

But yeah, I think like with the way Bam's shooting now, I think that makes sense as well.

[C]

I just think it's, it's interesting what we're, what we're describing though I think could sort of allude to and reveal probably what the spurs are thinking about his value because it's an interesting situation of they got lucky with some of their draft situations where they ended up getting more talent. Obviously you get a general, a guy who has like a goat arc like Wimby. I do want to talk about Wimby. Physically at some point he does not look right to me. But I just think that he's somebody that his eagerness and his willingness. Usually when you talk about these young guys that are on the move you're like well if you, if he, he gets his shit together in XYZ way, you know, so it's not like that. Like you all were saying, this is a guy that's going to come in and the odds of him improving and getting better are pretty good. So that might fun. Techio might not end up being the value for that. But I'd call it in today if I were them.

[A]

Yeah, Rob, do you want to do yours?

[B]

I would like to talk about Kobe White.

[C]

He's on my list too.

[B]

A very good NBA player who is due for a contract this summer and the Chicago Bulls do not seem to want to pay him at all. And we should say, I would assume, who also up for a contract this summer. Based on what we've read, it doesn't seem like the Bulls want to pay him either. So I don't know what it is exactly that they're doing, but if you're not going to pay Kobe White, will this be the one time, and I mean the one time, that this Bulls front office gets out in front of a problem before it actually manifests? I'm a little doubtful that that's the case, but maybe this. Maybe there's enough urgency in this moment, given the pay raise that White is due for, for them to actually do something for once. And if they do, I think he's a player of real consequence, especially with some of the Western Conference teams that could be on board to trade for him.

[A]

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned him. I considered him for the top tier because I just don't know how he fits in our little binary hierarchy we've established here. But it does feel like that they have kind of moved past him in some odd ways. Despite the fact that he looked like their best player by the end of last season. He does seem to fit in particular what the Wolves are looking for and what they've tried to get into. Rob Dillingham. I don't know if they fit in terms of trade partners, though. I don't know what the. Yeah, to be able to send back because of how much they've given up in draft capital over the years. But I think in terms of like a partner for Ant, I like that.

[B]

I love the potential Wolves fit. And yeah, that stuff has been out there. Like the dots are sort of being connected at this point between teams that could be interested in White, I think based more on need than actual reporting. But that's a clear need like that. That would be a huge win. And just because Ant can play point guard doesn't mean he should play point guard all the time. Doesn't mean it's the best use of his skills. Someone like Kobe White would be awesome for Minnesota if they could possibly get that done. Though I'm inclined to agree with you, jv, that I just, I don't see the assets that would convince a team that loves to sit on its hands in the Chicago Bulls to not sit on their hands. Like, you really do have to kind of win them over because they've been in this position before with so many other guys and refuse to trade them for all sorts of reasons that do not make sense to me. But clearly they're operating from some kind of internal logic.

[C]

Were the Wolves the only team you had in mind for. For him?

[B]

The other one's the Houston Rockets, and that's a team where. Look, I. Let's zoom out on Houston before we even get to Kobe White. I think one of two, if not both. Both of these things need to happen. Emi Udoka needs to bite the bullet and play Reed shepherd more than he plays Reed shepherd despite the fact that he's not good on defense.

[C]

Like, I'm with you, Rob.

[B]

He just needs to play more and be more involved because their offense is in such a bad way and they not only need the organization of more ball handlers, but they can benefit from his scoring and shooting, too. That needs to happen. They also need to seriously investigate trading for players like Kobe White. And if you want to look at other candidates, that's up to you. They obviously should and. And do a canvassing of every potential point guard that's available. But I think White checks a lot of boxes. He's clearly gettable under the right circumstances. And the question then becomes, what are you willing to give up if you're Houston? I think all of the key prospects for the Rockets are basically off the table. It's much more. Are you willing to part with any of the additional draft capital you have at your disposal if you're the Rockets? For what could be a rental, I think for Kobe White, you know, just a couple of months of him on the team, because I'm not sure he makes sense with the Fred Van Vliet returning version of the Houston Rockets. And maybe this is a way where you absolve yourself of. Of that. Of like having to keep Fred on the books and having to continue to, you know, like, as much as they would love to have him on this team right now, maybe Kobe White removes that need somewhat.

[A]

So we're talking about a first for two months of Kobe White.

[B]

I mean, it doesn't have to be a first. Like, it could be a swap. In particular, I would say the one option that I think could make some Sense is in 2029, the Rockets and the. I believe it's. The Nets have a. Like, there's three picks involved in a weird swap arrangement in which Houston gets the preferable two of the three. So the Nets will get the worst of the three picks. The Rockets will get the bet two better of those three picks. What if you traded the middle pick and so you're protected from it being too good and those two picks. We should say it's like the best of Dallas's pick, Phoenix's pick and Houston's pick. The middle of those three, I mean it's not going to be that great, right? Like may maybe late lottery. I would think 2029 is a far is a long way away and a lot can happen. So clearly all possibilities are on the table. But I don't know. A middle protected first round pick for Kobe White. Again, if you see him being part of your team long term might make sense. If it's just a rental, it might be too like too tough of a sell.

[C]

Is 2029 Post Kevin Durant with the.

[B]

Rockets I would think. But Kevin Durant might also be doing 50, 40, 90 and 2050 as far as I'm concerned. So who's to say I feel like.

[A]

We need a flowchart for any of these picks at this point. There's now a document that I think every podcaster and blog boy uses Unreal GM where it's just all listed out. Yeah and God damn it's just like even the what if if this happens. But then also this is so confusing that I can't even wrap my mind around it. We need visuals at because I can barely understand what you just said. But I think it's interesting like trying to pinpoint what White's value is. Because if the Bulls are signaling that they aren't in this long term, why is anybody giving up anything significant for him? I guess a piece of a first would probably strike the best balance of it, but if I'm the Bulls like do I is there actually more value in trying to retain him in the off season if only to flip him later or holding onto his bird rights and hoping more opens up so that you could do something in the off season.

[B]

I just if I see the Chicago Bulls retain a guy to try to flip him later one more time, I think I'm having an aneurysm. So I I would like for them to trade one or both of these guys between Kobe and IO. I just don't believe that they will. Honestly. I I would like to see Kobe White though in particular freed. You know, freed to a team that's playing for something of consequence because I really do believe in him. I I believe in what he brings to the table off the dribble as a mid range creator. Like he's such a savvy, smooth player that I think for a team like Houston could really find the creases in their offense. It'd be something meaningful for them. But for the Chicago Bulls, he's. You're right, Justin, that he's like an accessory to so much of what they're doing. And if he's not essential, why are you breaking the bank to resign him like that? That's the predicament they find themselves in. And I probably would still resign him anyway just because I think he's good enough to hold on to. I just. I don't know. I just. I don't wish being on the Bulls on anybody.

[C]

I think the problem with White's value, where it's hard to dial in and this has always been kind of the thing with him is he is in a point guard's body with a, with a wing scores sensibility basically, I think. And he, his game is always tilted that way. And you know, when you have players like that, it always runs the risk of, of escaping the boundaries of what you're trying to do and just consuming a lot of oxygen. And I think when you talk about him going to the Wolves, I'm kind of like he. And I just wonder, speaking to the Wolves and the Rockets specifically, I think the Rockets are more likely to sort of contain and get a lot out of what he does just because the infrastructure of how they manufacture offense, I think with Shingoon, with kd, I think could save him from some of his worst demons in terms of over pursuing his own offense. Whereas with the Wolves, I don't. It almost seems like, you know, there aren't a lot of Mike Conley's out there. I'm just trying to. It seems like a more of a steady deferential type point guard is what would suit them best as opposed to like running him. I could see him pissing ant off is kind of what I'm getting at. And I think that the, the Rockets, I think as a candidate for him are interesting. I think. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

More interesting, there's a weird, almost perverse synergy between him and Giddey that really does balance each other out where like Giddey doesn't need the ball all the time.

[C]

Perverse, you say?

[B]

Yeah, I would love to get into that perversity.

[A]

Well, I'm, I'm a pretty big pervert. So where's your, where's.

[C]

Where's your bottom jv?

[A]

All right, are we ready to talk about the Blazers now that we've done this hour long prelude to get here?

[B]

We've only talked about them like five times already, so what's once more so.

[A]

Robert Williams, trade deadline, All Star, I think for the past Couple of years. Has been involved in rumors definitely since he's been in Portland, if only because he's this odd mix of very good when he plays. It's just when he plays is kind of an open question mark. I will say as we're recording this, he's only missed two straight games once this year. So it really is just keeping him out of back to backs. And so he has been healthy. As much as healthy as he's probably going to be at this stage of his career.

[B]

I just want to get to a point in my life where somebody's like, he's only missed two straight work days once.

[A]

You know, that sounds ideal to me.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Like it's, it's a great bar to set for yourself where like, okay, missing one for load management, injury management reasons. Totally okay. But God forbid you miss too.

[A]

I will say this. His absence is felt when he's not there. Like, he is so intuitive that especially in contrast to the other bigs that the Blazers have. I just think, like, I see why he's involved in so many trade rumors because I do think he could level up most situations at the center position. The problem is, like, you're really leaving it up to risk that he's going to be available there. But I also think you can always go home home. I've always said that. And so I do wonder if the Boston Celtics, who are looking for a center, but they don't necessarily need like, like a, A Joel Embiid, for instance, like game breaker. They just need someone in tandem with K because K has been like a kind of revelation. He's a good find. So could you trade Rob Williams, bring him back to Boston and send out Sam Houser, give Portland a shooter? What do you guys think about that?

[B]

Interesting. I mean, Luca Garza doesn't love it, I can tell you that. You know, he's not thrilled about the, about the prospect, but supplanting him would make sense. Adding Rob Williams would make sense. I think ideally my only issue for Boston is if I am going to add another big. I'm interested in rebounding almost first and foremost. And Rob Williams is a great shot blocker, a good rim protector, like good playing the weak side, not like the most overwhelming rebounder in the world. And so as far as types of centers you would target, he wouldn't be the first guy that came to mind for me. But if all it takes to get him is Sam Houser. Yeah, like we're having the conversation. Like, I'm I'm. I'm clearly on the line for something like that.

[C]

Interesting. Yeah. Luca Garza, I was going to say, sat next to him in Vegas at a restaurant. Quite a jawline on that guy. Quite a jawline.

[B]

Chisel.

[C]

Yeah. Very, very much. Yeah. Who I'm trying to think of the Celtics, like what if they could target somebody like Zub. Zubotch would be an interesting guy, but I don't know how they would go and get him. If I'm just looking at the assets side by side. I still weirdly feel like Robert is worth more than Houser in a vacuum. Is that. Would that just be the framework for. For something else or straight. Straight up. The money doesn't work.

[A]

Does. Works straight up. I actually do wonder if Hauser has more market value because he is such a dead eyed shooter at such a low like dollar amount. He's making like 10 million a year for the next four years or low teens for a while. I just think that's a immensely valuable player. And I do wonder with Williams considering his injury concerns if actually the Celtics would blanch at that. Especially cause Missoula has his guys and like to give up a, a steady rotation guy like Hauser seems like the type of thing that they wouldn't do.

[B]

Yeah, I mean Hauser kind of weirdly enough, given that he is sort of a specialist, gives you a little more ability to stretch out. I think part of the, the problem with Rob Williams is not only that he doesn't play a ton of games. Like he's going to either miss time by injury or miss time through preventative rest, but he also, when he does play, he's only playing like what, 15, 16 minutes a game this season. Like he's not a huge player in terms of role and the more you ex, like extend that, the more you extend the with it. So what, what are you willing to trade for a guy who will miss a certain number of games basically every season and you don't want to play too many minutes because you don't want to overtax him. Like that's. It is a very particular market to hit. And that's where I think a role player type like Hauser feels like a philosophical exchange. Right. It's like are we willing to trade the upside of who Rob Williams is when he's on the court for the steadiness of someone like Hauser and what he can bring to the table?

[C]

I think bringing up the Celtics though is interesting because I don't know, I'd be curious to get your All's opinion on this. I get the sense from talking to people who cover the Celtics or Celtics fans, there's just this quiet nuclear confidence about them. Them at the Celtics.

[B]

No, I just think I feel like.

[C]

People from the outside are like, Celtics, pretty good team. I feel like people who are covering and following that team quote closely have this idea that like we're actually much closer than people give us credit for, which makes me watch them at the deadline where I'm like, maybe they. I don't know that they're thinking like we're going to lean on Tatum so heavily, but I think they look at the east and think like, this is easily gettable for us. And I don't know, I just wonder if they're not going to make some kind of significant swing at the deadline. I don't know. How close are they? Do you all think?

[A]

Well, I'm, I'm glad he mentioned Zubosz because he was a hot name, at least locally for them when the Clippers seemed like they were just going to bottom out in part because his contract is actually the perfect fit for what they have structured there where it's like 18 million. It's actually way lower than you think. And I think the biggest sticking point for them is just they got out of the tax and that was their primary motivation going to the season, seemingly. And now things have flipped to where I think they're in the mode where it's like, could they add? Would they actually go back to where they were before? I ultimately think they don't want that. I don't think you want to clutter your books unless you know you have a surefire home run in that third salary slot. I just don't know what team in this day and age has a long Runway but also has two supermaxes, plus Derek White's hefty contract, plus another in like the 20s to 30s. And so I always assumed that they would just try to split Anthony Simon's contract perhaps into two. Maybe get an ant type at a lower value, maybe get a rotation player for down the road and you think next year. But now I'm kind of confused because you're right. It does feel like if things click right with Tatum, they might be low key, a favorite, if only because the institutional knowledge compared to like what Detroit has, if Detroit doesn't take a big old swing, gets an MPJ or somebody else. And so I'm all over the place with the Celtics, but the opening is there. I think you're right.

[B]

And I think the Opening is there for this kind of acquisition. They really don't need something super dramatic, just like a little more depth and a couple of key spots and they're right there with the best teams in the Eastern Conference. And if, if not Rob Williams, like Gogo Batadze is somebody I've kicked around a lot of like, especially now that Mo Wagner is back in Orlando, is Goga Gettable, who I feel like is just maybe one of the most overqualified third string centers in the league.

[C]

Go get Goga.

[B]

Go get. Go Go. Let's put, let's print it on a banner. Let's get the word out.

[C]

Go get.

[A]

I get the haircut that Baylor Shireman has right now, which, which I can only describe as like the Martin Luther.

[C]

Not a great haircut for my guy. I mean, I was going to say, I don't know if y' all watched the Piston Celtics game the other night that was. This is one of the most cliche things that NBA people in NBA Twitter. Give me seven, give me a seven game series of that. I just think, I think they look at the Pistons and they think gettable. I think they look at the Knicks and they think, come on man, like our synergy. I just think the Celtics are close. Like it's. It seems like they're a legitimate potential Finals team, which I did not expect to say that earlier in the year.

[B]

Crazy stuff.

[A]

And I thought to my earlier point about like trading Simons. I thought that was going to be an easy decision for them. They favored the tax over what he can bring. Didn't really fit with Missoula. All of a sudden he seems, if not essential, then certainly crucial to what they have right now. Maybe Tatum's emergence like kind of like repress suppresses the need of like having him around there. But like he's a very competent six man who fits their overall mold of just like getting up threes and, and, and jacking off. So I don't know. It's a tough one.

[B]

Justin, did you consider it all the double? You can always go home again, bring Anthony Simons back to Portland and Rob Williams to Boston.

[A]

Of course I did.

[B]

I mean you gotta at least, you gotta at least see if it can work. I don't know that it really makes sense, but why not you bring David back?

[A]

Ant? Yeah.

[C]

Do you guys know if we're sending anybody to Memphis for Jason Tatum statue unveiling? Are we. Do you know if we're doing that?

[B]

Well, when is that, when is that dated for? Do you know?

[C]

I. It's I need to check the schedule. But did you. I mean, did you guys see that clip?

[A]

Of course I saw it. I like most things was like, is this real? Because it did feel like someone conjured this up in AI, but also like.

[B]

Look, Jason Tatum's great. Tony Allen exists. You know, Marcus exists. Respect our legends.

[C]

Yeah, I was. I could see what he was trying to say. Like he was trying to respect the Celtics rather than. But I don't know if he necessarily meant to disrespect Memphis to the extent or the Memphis history. I don't even know how much of that is really on Tatum's radar. That's probably more what he's speaking to. I just, I was pretty amused by that. You know what?

[B]

Like Memphis Mike Conley is better than Bob Koozie. Like, that's just a fact. I'm sorry. Like, you know, this, this, the Celtics history is look, hefty to a point. And then there's just a lot of other history that's attached to it. And we don't have to pretend that, that you're about to get a text, Bill.

[C]

Yeah, you're about to get a text from Bill and Isaiah. I'm. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know why we're still doing stature like to begin with. Like, didn't we just swear these off a couple of years ago? Have you been to like outside of crypto? It's like a full Sims village because they started giving people statues. Then other good players came around and now they have like 20 statues. It's like a full fucking family out there.

[B]

How many statues will LeBron get? Not a Lakers statue, I wouldn't think.

[C]

I mean, Cleveland for sure. Just Cleveland for sure.

[A]

You want to title with the Lakers.

[C]

Native part of it.

[B]

Miami maybe. Although given the way the Dwayne Wade statue turned out, maybe wanting a statue in Miami is not the move.

[A]

I bet you it's Cleveland and Lakers.

[B]

Not. But not Miami.

[A]

No, because my. I think it depends a lot on the President. It's kind of like Jersey retirements. If you retire just an, like a sixth man on a title team from a one title town, like then you kind of have to do everybody else level.

[B]

One title town. You know, it just makes it sound like a little. Little trading post out there in the wilderness there.

[A]

There are bars named after the one year that the Blazers won a title. That's what I was thinking about.

[C]

Okay. See for now, one title town.

[B]

Not.

[A]

Not. Yeah, it's my offshoot pod. One title town.

[B]

That's pretty good.

[A]

Yeah, it's like that, that HGTV show hometown, where they just go and they rehabilitate old homes in a town.

[B]

That's the whole bit?

[C]

No, that's the whole show. You didn't know Robin Big, I don't know Hometown. We're not even. Robin Big's a classic show.

[B]

You had us with love it or listed. But Hometown, that's not a real program.

[A]

I'm deep in the weeds on the hgtv.

[C]

So your bathroom, can you see out to exposed air now? What's going on? Give us a quick update on that, on the renovation.

[A]

There's a wall that like it's the house, the side of the house eventually. But yeah, I see exposed beams right now.

[B]

Does it make you feel like more of a man?

[A]

It will if I finish it correctly. But right now I'm in the horror stage where it's like I've exposed beams. Like, what's that little splotch right there? Do I need to get this remediated?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do I deal with plumbing? Do I need to call someone? No, I don't need to call someone. I could do it myself. I watched 20 hours of YouTube. So talk to me in like a week or so because hopefully we'll have.

[C]

Let us know if you feel like a man a week from now.

[A]

I'm curious.

[B]

We'll do curious check ins.

[A]

My guess is no. We might need a little bit longer from that, but I'll let you know. Let's wrap it there. Thanks, guys. It's always a pleasure for sure. Take a Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you. We'll talk to you on Sunday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas City Star Casino or 18 and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 77-Support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.