The Murky Future of Joel Embiid and the Sixers. Plus, No-Power Rankings. | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: Episode Summary

Episode Title: The Murky Future of Joel Embiid and the Sixers. Plus, No-Power Rankings. | Group Chat
Release Date: March 4, 2025
Hosts: Justin Varier, Rob Mahoney, and Big Waz
Podcast Series: The Ringer NBA Show – Group Chat segment (Mondays and Thursdays)

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Group Chat from The Ringer NBA Show, hosts Justin Varier, Rob Mahoney, and Big Waz delve deep into the uncertain future of Philadelphia 76ers star Joel Embiid and the ramifications of his season-ending injury. Additionally, the trio navigates the unconventional territory of "No-Power Rankings," analyzing the NBA's bottom five teams based on their current trajectories and organizational challenges.

---

1. The Philadelphia 76ers and Joel Embiid's Injury

The episode kicks off with a candid discussion about Joel Embiid's devastating season-ending injury. Embiid's absence has left the Sixers reeling, with only 19 games played this season (8 starts and 11 games with Embiid on the court).

• Impact on the Sixers:
  Justin Varier expresses concern, stating, “Whenever an athlete gets shut down and has surgery, it's always like, we expect a full recovery... This is the sort of situation where we have to start worrying about Joel's end future in the NBA.”

• Tank Strategy & Team Direction:
  The hosts debate whether the Sixers should adopt a tanking strategy to preserve their draft pick or remain competitive despite the setbacks.
  Big Waz supports tanking, noting, “The Sixers need to lose games... this is where things have gone for them.”

• Prospects and Roster Moves:
  Discussion shifts to young talent like Quentin Grimes, whose performance has been a bright spot amidst the turmoil.
  Rob Mahoney mentions, “Quentin Grimes putting up 44... Why not have him playing for something, feeling like these games actually matter?”

• Future Uncertainty:
  Rob further elaborates on Embiid’s murky future, pointing out the continuous concerns about his ability to return fully.
  Rob Mahoney: “These are the conversations we're having. And they're my number three team. And the reason why I think... you just know if this guy's going to play or not.”

---

2. No-Power Rankings: Analyzing the Bottom Five Teams

Eschewing traditional rankings, the hosts categorize the NBA's bottom five teams based on their dire situations, lack of direction, and organizational missteps.

a. Number Five: Charlotte Hornets

• Performance & Talent:
  Big Waz assesses the Hornets as a struggling team with a poor season record but notes the presence of promising talents like LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller.
  Rob Mahoney: “Their two best players are LaMelo Ball and Miles Bridges. Emphasizing those two as the centerpieces of your rebuilding is a dubious idea.”

• Organizational Strategy:
  The Hornets' management is praised for their long-term vision despite the current struggles.
  Justin Varier: “They've been overly prudent and thinking more in the long term... maybe Lamelo Ball isn't our guy, maybe it's actually Brandon Miller.”

b. Number Four: Washington Wizards

• Team Dynamics:
  The Wizards face skepticism about their young roster and lack of standout performers.
  Big Waz: “They have players who are threatening to play more, which is a healthy thing for a team in their position,” but overall, the outlook remains bleak.

• Management & Future Prospects:
  Concerns are raised about the Wizards' ability to build a cohesive team around their current assets.
  Rob Mahoney: “Their front offices do not have any definitive direction. There's no single prospect that gives them momentum.”

c. Number Three: Utah Jazz

• Rebuilding Challenges:
  The Jazz are critiqued for their slow and ineffective rebuilding process, despite accumulating valuable draft picks.
  Big Waz: “They have an incredible amount of draft capital, but they're waiting for that one piece to turn things around.”

• Player Development:
  Questions remain about the Jazz's ability to develop young talent into impactful players.
  Justin Varier: “They have to wait until 2031 to regain draft control, which is too long a period of mediocrity.”

d. Number Two: Chicago Bulls

• Organizational Mismanagement:
  The Bulls are highlighted as the epitome of mismanagement, struggling with poor drafting, ineffective trades, and lackluster player development.
  Rob Mahoney: “They're horribly mismanaged and don't have a talent you could build around.”

• Player Roster Issues:
  The Bulls' current roster lacks cohesion and star power, with veterans like Jalen Brunson not providing the needed leadership.
  Big Waz: “They don't have any prospects that can be a star, making their future unpredictably bleak.”

e. Number One: Brooklyn Nets

• Lack of Direction:
  Being placed at the top of the No-Power Rankings, the Nets are critiqued for their lack of a clear path to competitiveness despite an attractive market.
  Rob Mahoney: “They have no players you can point to as part of the next great Nets team.”

• Roster Instability:
  The Nets' inability to maintain a stable and impactful roster is a primary concern.
  Big Waz: “They don’t have any prospect that you can feel really confident is going to be a star.”

---

3. Debates on Team Strategies and Future Moves

The hosts engage in a spirited debate about various strategic moves teams might consider to climb out of their current predicaments.

• Sixers’ Trade Dilemmas:
  Discussion centers on whether the Sixers should prioritize retaining their top picks or make bold trades for veterans like Paul George.
  Justin Varier: “If we knew more about the injuries, I think they could easily be number one in this list.”

• Prospect Evaluations:
  Analyzing players like Jared Butler and Lonnie Walker, the hosts ponder their potential impacts and suitability for their respective teams.
  Big Waz: “Lennie Walker is probably an NBA player, but he's on the fringe.”

• Ownership and Management Influence:
  The detrimental impact of poor ownership decisions on team performance and player morale is a recurring theme.
  Rob Mahoney: “They treat this shit like it's a freaking Double-A league. That's why I see the future of the Bulls as bleak as hell.”

• Kevin Durant’s Potential Moves:
  A lengthy discussion ensues regarding Kevin Durant's possible destinations, debating the benefits and drawbacks of him joining teams like the Wizards or returning to the Nets.

  Rob Mahoney: “I would love to see him go to the Wizards and make them relevant.”

  Big Waz: “He is a swing piece that takes a contending team and can give them some things they badly need.”

---

4. Team-Specific Insights and Predictions

The hosts provide individualized insights into the strategies and future prospects of various NBA teams outside the top five.

• Washington Wizards: Despite their struggles, the Wizards possess some quality players like Chris Middleton and Jordan Poole, but organizational indecisiveness hampers their progress.

• Utah Jazz: While having accumulated significant draft capital, the Jazz's slow rebuilding pace and reliance on unproven prospects fail to inspire confidence.

• Chicago Bulls: The Bulls' management, led by Jimmy Butler, is critiqued for mismanagement and lack of clear talent to build around, solidifying their position near the bottom.

• Brooklyn Nets: As the pinnacle of their No-Power Rankings, the Nets suffer from roster instability and lack of a clear superstar to guide the team back to prominence.

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a consensus that several NBA teams are struggling due to a combination of poor management, injuries, and lack of direction. The Philadelphia 76ers emerge as a focal point of concern due to Joel Embiid's uncertain future, while teams like the Chicago Bulls and Brooklyn Nets epitomize organizational failures. The hosts emphasize the importance of strategic management and player development as critical factors for teams aiming to ascend from the league's lower tiers.

---

Notable Quotes

• Justin Varier on Embiid's future:
  “This is the sort of situation where we have to start worrying about Joel's end future in the NBA.” [07:19]

• Big Waz on Sixers' tanking strategy:
  “The Sixers need to lose games... this is where things have gone for them.” [05:13]

• Rob Mahoney on Bulls' mismanagement:
  “They're horribly mismanaged and don't have a talent you could build around.” [07:56]

• Justin Varier on the Phoenix Suns:
  “They're so putrid and they just don't have to be... Devin Booker creates a healthy market.” [63:44]

• Rob Mahoney on Kevin Durant's potential move:
  “I would love to see him go to the Wizards and make them relevant.” [69:39]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and debates from the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the hosts' perspectives on the NBA's current landscape.

Transcript

[Justin Varier]

This episode is brought to you by patron. 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida tequila 40% alcoh by volume. This episode is brought to you by Paramount plus now streaming on Paramount plus the return of 1923 a Yellowstone origin story From Taylor Sheridan, executive producer of Landman, comes an all new season in the Dutton saga. Starring Academy Award nominee Harrison Ford and Academy Award winner Helen Mirren. See how the Dutton family defends their legacy in a fight that defines generations. 1923 A Yellowstone Origin Story Season 2 now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus Foreign. Welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier. And joining me, Rob Mahoney. Big Waz. Woz. I was looking through the photos of the Vanity Fair party. You know how they have those all out after the Oscars every night? I didn't see you. What happened? You didn't get the invite?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was in New York, man. Come on, man. I'm in New York right now. At least for one, one more day. And so I missed the Vanity Fair party. But there's always next year.

[Big Waz]

I feel like this is the life you lead though, is every time I see seemingly innocuous party photos of celebrities, I will at least do a quick scan of the background for Woz to see if he's like laughing at a Steph Curry joke somewhere back there.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, like, listen, NBA holidays, you can find me at pretty much all of these, these little, you know, elbow rubbing situations where the activation actually where NBA media gets to hang out with actually important people. But the Hollywood stuff is a little bit dicier. It's a little bit harder to, to get into. You guys will not be surprised. I did take a little cursory like couple of texts and emails to try to figure out how to get into the Golden Globe party in la.

[Big Waz]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

A few, yeah, put some feelers out there. I got, I got like 40% there. I didn't push the issue, but feel pretty positive that I could get into the Globes next year after party, not the actual award.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Wow. Which one of us are you bringing as your plus one?

[Big Waz]

Oh, good question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, man, I'm throwing that up for grabs. You guys Gotta fight it out.

[Justin Varier]

Highest bidder.

[Big Waz]

I'll hit you up wise. We're gonna do some soft lobbying for 20, 26.

[Justin Varier]

That's right. What was it the other day that was. Told us, like, man, you don't know? Like, maybe I get there eventually. Was it Congress was like a seat in the political system? I wouldn't doubt it was just like, you know, there's a possibility down the road. I forgot what it was, but it was something. Seat of power.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just be surprised who's a fan and a listener to this podcast. You guys would be shocked the amount of prominent people who care about the shit that we do up here.

[Big Waz]

We speak directly to the rich and powerful. I think, you know, we're. We're in their ears, influencing how they feel about Jordan Pool on a daily basis. Like, I think. I think we're doing the work.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. I've always said I'm the NBA media version of Maddie and Glace, so, you know, there's no surprises there, guys.

[Justin Varier]

Well, they celebrated Hollywood's biggest stars last night. We're going to celebrate the NBA's biggest shitheads. We're talking.

[Big Waz]

That's rude. That's rude.

[Justin Varier]

No top power rankings. The annual exercise. We go through the worst situations in the NBA, but we have to start first and foremost with, unfortunately, a team that I think is going to factor into our rankings. The Philadelphia 76ers, who unfortunately lost Joel Embiid for the season. If you can consider what he's done thus far, really participating in the season. He only played 19 games this year, 8 and 11 with Embiid there. He got shut down for the rest of the season. I think the really dire part of this is, you know, whenever athlete gets shut down and has surgery, it's always like, oh, we expect a full recovery. Uh, we. He'll be back for training camp the next year. This one there, it was just like, oh, I don't. I don't know. Rob, what did you think about this news? I guess it was expected for pretty much the entire season.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, if not the entire season, then certainly lately. And so, yeah, it just felt like business as usual for the Sixers in the way things have gone. This was a confirmation that I think not only we were looking for, but I'm sure the team was looking for in some ways. Just make this official, make it clear which direction the team is going. The Sixers need to lose games, and they probably need to lose more games than they are currently, which is saying something. But this is where things have gone for them. I just. I didn't see any other way out for Philly other than to take this path. Let Joel come back as cautiously as possible. Try to keep your pick, maximize the opportunities for some of the guys further down the roster. A la Quintin Grimes going absolutely bonkers right now. What else can you do?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's. It was headed this way. I'm pretty sure it was Lisa Salters who broke the news on an ESPN broadcast that she talked to Joel and he was like, yeah, I'm thinking about probably getting a surgery at the end of the season. And everybody was like, wait, hold on. Like, if your knee is to the point where you're already thinking about surgery, then what are you doing right now? Why aren't. Why isn't Joel just shutting it down immediately and, you know, rehabbing and worrying about next year and doing everything that he can to stay on the court? And so it felt like it was going this way from the beginning. And I think what sucks is that, you know, people kind of question the idea that he would have, you know, played in the Olympics and just not just not done this. What he's doing now, much earlier, which is, you know, basically eight, nine, 10 months ago, started this on this process. And I understand why he wanted to get in this season with the revamped squad, a new all star teammate, all of this stuff, wanting to, you know, challenge for an NBA title, finally get out the second round. But yeah, this is a big, big, big bummer. Even if we saw it coming for months now.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, I think that's the worry. There isn't any, like, sort of prescription or any sort of surgery that's on the docket right now. If anything, the reporting from Shamshirani and other people suggests, like, they just want to shut him down so they. They can come up with a solution. It sounds like there might even still be some disagreements about how to approach it both between Joel and from the Sixers perspective. I think this just, like it's become so bad and embiid as he has in the past, wants to play through these things just to prove that he's like, not this injury prone guy. I think it's just cause clashing up and down. So I don't know where you go from here. I mean, we don't know we're not doctors, except for perhaps was on his free time. But I do think this is the sort of situation where we have to start worrying about Joel's ent future in the NBA. This is now so persistent with his leg. Not even before he got to the league in his first couple of years, but now it's becoming year to year where it's like, is he going to play? Is he going to play next year? Is he going to play the year after that? It's all up for grabs.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. And by association, the future of the Sixers as a whole and the direction of that team. And so how do you want to navigate this, jv? Because as you said, we're doing no power rankings today. Spoiler alert. The Sixers are on my list of the five teams whose future I would least like to be a part of or invest in or I feel least confident about. Do you want to jump straight to Philly on our list? Do you want to go 1 to 5, 5 to 1? How do you. How do you want to go from here?

[Justin Varier]

Well, before we pivot to the rankings, I just want to ask you guys about the rest of their season. Like, we can get to beyond that after that. Rob, you kind of laid out there that you think their best course of action is to tank this out. Just try to keep their pick, which is top six protected.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Here's my question. Like, might they find themselves in a situation where they can't control that? Because on the one hand, like, there's still good players on this team. Paul George is still playing for as long as he is. Like, Tyrese Maxey still out there. Quentin grimes putting up 44 they might like, can only be so bad in part because the Bulls right in front of them, I think, would also love to get worse in the standings. So I wonder, like, can you tank your way to a pick here, or are they going to end up in a situation where they're playing the play? And regardless of how they feel about.

[Big Waz]

This, I think they're going to end up in a situation that is terrifying for them. And it's sort of a cruel inversion of the lottery nights that Philly has had re in recent history. Right where they're hoping to strike it big with the first overall pick. I think this lottery night is going to be so much more tenuous because they're going to be right on that borderline of whether they get to keep the pick or not. And it may come down to whether a team with worse lottery odds jumps them into the high lottery and nudges them out in the process. Like, there's just so many worst case scenario outcomes for here for them here. And honestly, if they end up in that sort of 7, 8 range and have to convey the pick this year, after everything that they've been through with nothing to show for it. And I say that not just in terms of the pick itself, but the developmental opportunities have been pretty scant. You know, you. You know a little more about Gershon Yabuzeli as an NBA player than you did a couple months ago. That's great, but it's not like there were a bunch of young guys on this team who have thrived with the newfound responsibility that they've had. It's not like Tyrese Maxey has taken a great leap forward. If anything, I think you've exposed some of the limitations of what he can be to you as a creator and as a primary Dr. Of offense, given how much he's had to do for them this season. So I hope for their sake that they come out of this with their own pick. And to me, the only clear way to try to do that is to proceed as cautiously as possible. Not just around Embiid, but around Paul George, around whatever pieces of the rotation you need to selectively withhold and mind their knees and mind their feet and try to get everyone ready for next season like that. That's really the only thing that the Sixers are playing for.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I'm. I could kind of go the other way on this. Just the idea that they would just, you know, sit maxi for no reason. And Paul George, who's barely done a sin, lifted a freaking finger this entire year and be like, oh, he's got a strange groin or something, ailment calf that's keeping him out. I mean, like, having the Sixers tanked enough, you know, like, if Paul George.

[Big Waz]

Is already getting shots to be able to play. I don't think you're inventing reasons, right? You're just being. At a certain point, you're just being responsible about it.

[Justin Varier]

He just quit his podcast in order for the stretch run to be his.

[Big Waz]

The hiatus cannot be for not, you know, they must charge bravely forward.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would just like to see these guys try to be competitive, show some pride for the season. Just the idea that they would just roll out, you know, the end of their bench and start giving the scrubs 20 minutes a night so that they could pursue, you know, a 6 pick in the draft. Like, I under. I understand logically. I get it, guys. I'm not an idiot. I understand why you would want to take a crack at a top six talent in this draft. That's not lost on me. But at the same time, you know, like, Quentin Grimes just went out and dropped 40. Why not have him Playing for something, you know, feeling like these games actually matter, that could actually serve this team going forward. Why shouldn't Maxey be trying to, you know, learn how to navigate being the actual man? And again, like we talk about teams that show signs at the end of seasons before sort of on the pre call. Why can't the Sixers be that kind of team that shows signs in the late stages of the season that they carry into next year? That's what I would honestly like to see them do rather than the Sixers again. Tanking for picks.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, on. On the one hand, we'll see about Paul George. I would be surprised considering he made such a show of shutting down the podcast that he would shut down the rest of his season. And on the one hand, he's been so bad that I almost wonder if he plays more that actually helps their tanking odds. On the other hand, when he does.

[Big Waz]

Play more of like bad, he's been.

[Justin Varier]

Pretty bad in a big picture, winning since.

[Big Waz]

Yes. But in a tanking sense, Paul George is not driving the tank.

[Justin Varier]

Well, actually, he made such a stink out of playing more of a big man position. I actually like him considering just the lack of athletic pop that he's had this year. Playing more of like the four and God forbid, like a small ball center next to the guy who's actually going to take the pounding and like a. Yeah, Bicelli and whatnot. I think actually he fits there if, if he's not going to have the same athleticism, be the same sort of athletic freak that we've known from the past. So we'll see about that. But I do like the idea of giving guys some shots because this is where Daryl More has always thrived. Finding guys in the bargain bin. It almost feels like, you know, at the end of Casino where he's like retreated back to his like San Diego home and he's like, but I can always pick a winner. So they let me alone and just let me just make money for them. That. That's Daryl Morey right now, just bringing in Jalen Hood, Shafino and. And these type of guys in there. Yeah, Rob, are these any sort of these like low level bargain bin guys? Lonn Walker is now back in the NBA and with the Sixers. Is there any one of those you like more than the others?

[Big Waz]

I mean, I think we all agree that Lonnie Walker is probably an NBA player. He's just in that fringe bracket that one year to the next could swing out and end up in Europe, clearly. Or end up Playing overseas, I find myself really liking Jared Butler as a prospect, as a, as someone to throw into the mix, but not necessarily the kind of player you're going to build a team around or even build a rotation around or even necessarily guarantee a spot to next season. But here's where I agree with this is the Six Sixers could really benefit from having some pressure from the bottom part of the roster. Guys who are threatening to play more, threatening to do more in a way that like this is a strangely veteran team for a, for a group that is in the position that they are. You need some of that juice like you need some of that drive. You need some guys who are, you know, an Andre Drummond type who's kind of being gifted minutes and not doing a lot with them this season to feel like his job is actually on the line. And I think that's a healthy thing for a team in their position. And there's just not enough of that with where they are right now. And you would hope with guys like Butler, with guys like Hood Shavino who they're bringing in, with guys like Lonnie Walker who's fighting for his NBA life in some, in some senses that maybe you can get some of that desperate energy back. Because the Sixers have been anything but desperate.

[Justin Varier]

They holed out their entire roster in order to get Paul George. So they just need bodies just to fill out the rotation and they've done that thus far. Quentin Grimes a revelation. I've loved Quentin Grimes really good. God knows like two years at this point. Was surprised at the math dealt him. I mean it's tough to figure out what's going on with Dallas these days, but I have to assume like just because Quentin Grimes was funny is he's the exact listed height and weight as Caleb Martin, but he definitely doesn't play as. As nasty as Caleb Martin. And it seems like Dallas just likes the histrionics of certain guys, the. The theater of being tough and rugged. But Grimes is a much better shooter.

[Big Waz]

Better score against the war isn't as nasty. You mean he doesn't go through like a two week stretch where he makes zero threes.

[Justin Varier]

Right. The shooting numbers are what's actually nasty. Yeah, Grimes is just an awesome shooter and for whatever reason teams keep giving up on him. I don't know if he's the type of guy who just plays not as hard as like you'd expect, but I love the talent. I think that was a good also.

[Rob Mahoney]

Be a guy whose attitude can sour from time to time.

[Justin Varier]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's Been the book on him is that, you know, when things aren't going his way, that he can be a bit of a. I don't want to say a sulker. I don't. I think that's too harsh. But, like. Yeah, well, there's.

[Big Waz]

There's the part of it that I understand and the part of it that I don't. The part of it that I understand. If Dallas didn't believe in Quentin Grimes and Jason Kidd, at least, did not believe in Quentin Grimes, and clearly Nico Harrison didn't, to a certain degree, you don't want to pay him as an upcoming free agent. That doesn't really make sense. And so you trade him for a guy who's on a guaranteed contract who maybe you do believe in a little more. Okay, that checks out. I don't agree with the evaluation, but I understand the logic. The other part is this, which is, like, why didn't you trust him in the first place? And that's where was. I think you're probably onto something. The distinction is, is Quentin Grimes, like, a difficult player to work with, who sours on situations, or was it just not a compatible personality, right, between him and Kid, or him and teammates or him and whoever? Like, there's situations in which a guy is a problem, and there's situations in which a guy just isn't a good fit, and I think we're going to find out which one is true for Quentin Grimes pretty quickly.

[Justin Varier]

Sounds like a perfect Daryl Morey player. Like, he has so much talent, but, like, I don't know, personality wise, let's just get the talent in there and we'll figure out the rest of it. I will say there's like, a nice little, like, alternate reality forming for the Sixers if they do end up keeping their pick. Let's say they get, like, a top five player in a draft that has been, like, suggested is like, you know, first five to six guys could really make a difference for your franchise. Then you have Grimes in there, Then you have some of these other guys you're bringing up from the feeder system. Then it's like, oh, we might be able to switch our timeline on the fly here, where it's like, Tyrese Maxey plus whatever the future holds, whereas right now it seems like they're so beholden to Embiid and Paul George just because of the contracts that they're on. And almost. I almost wonder if they could have their cake and eat it, too, if they do some of these things right toward the end of the season. So I guess. Maybe not. The basketball itself will be fun, but the stakes seem pretty big for a team that, as we mentioned, has been in the drags of the league for the entire season.

[Rob Mahoney]

How realistic is it that they could move on from two $50 million players?

[Big Waz]

Let's, let's save that. Let's save that for the future power rankings. I feel like that's the crux of that. Or, sorry, the no power rankings. That's kind of the crux of the discussion.

[Justin Varier]

The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. It's Super Trade Day and you can celebrate three pointers all day long on FanDuel because right now all customers can boost their winnings with a 30% profit boost on same game parlays. That means you can get a bigger payout when you bet an NBA same game parlay. So we're looking at the trade day section on FanDuel and I like, believe it or not, Scoot Henderson. Yeah, that's right. I went with the trailblazer. Scoot Henderson minus 770 to hit one or more made three pointers. Have you looked at Scooter over the last like, I don't know, two months or so? I think the last time he didn't hit a three in a game that he played in was the end of January. So he's on a little bit of streak here. He plays a lot. The Trailblazers have had some injuries, so he's getting about 25 to 30 minutes a game and his shooting has been pretty good pretty much all season long. So give me scoop minus 7. 70 to hit one or more. Made three in parlay anytime. Three pointers, points, assists, rebounds and so much more with America's number one sportsbook. And best of all, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. So visit FanDuel.com Ringer MBA and turn every splash into cash all day long. Must be 21/ and present in select states or 18 + and present in DC. Opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail], gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com so we each came with our bottom five situations from this point going forward. I think we have a lot of the same teams. But I'm curious who you guys have. Do you want to just start with the Sixers if Or do you want to start for number Five with you guys.

[Big Waz]

Let's start from number five and we'll wind our way wherever the Sixers end up falling.

[Justin Varier]

Okay, Rob, then who do you have at number five?

[Big Waz]

I have the Charlotte Hornets at number five. The 14 and 45 Charlotte Hornets. Do you guys have them on your list? Yes.

[Justin Varier]

I do not.

[Big Waz]

Do not.

[Justin Varier]

Honorable mentions.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I think they're on the borderline, which is fair because on the one hand Charlotte is very bad this season. You will hear no argument from anybody but Lamelo. Plus Brandon Miller once he comes back from his wrist injury. Plus one more high level prospect throughout through a lottery pick. That's not a. That's a pretty viable core, especially for a team that. I don't think we say this enough. Like Charles Lee has these guys playing pretty decent defense, like pretty respectably on that side of the floor. It's just that when you take it all into account, you want a little more momentum out of a season like this one. There's a lot of interesting prospects, guys who I have my eye on, but I'm not like, you know, I'm not seeing Nick Smith Jr. And seeing a real pop. I'm seeing what could be and I'm sonic.

[Justin Varier]

Nick Smith Jr.

[Big Waz]

Potential future Sonic and even Mark Williams, who I think we like his, his offensive game and what he can be as a lob finisher. It's a tough look to come out of a season like this and say a competitive team nixed acquiring you because of health concerns. Doesn't make you feel great about the Hornets immediate future. And so this is a team that I think has an interesting trajectory and has enough going for it where I'm keeping my eye on them. That's why they're not number one on this list is the worst situation in the league. But they do have a long way to go.

[Rob Mahoney]

My part, the reason why they're number five on my list. Like they have nice young talent, right? When you talk about Lamelo Ball who was on the edges of the all star conversation, a lot of people felt like he was the biggest snub of the game. So you have a guy averaging 30, people think he's a bonafide all star. Obviously Brandon Miller gets a lot of love on this show. Like we love Brandon Miller universally between the three of us. And then their, their second best player is probably Miles Bridges. And I think that's the problem for the Hornets for me is that your two best players are Lamelo Ball and Miles Bridges. And the idea that you are going to build winning NBA habits while Emphasizing those two as the centerpieces of your rebuilding or building, building operation. I think that's a dubious sort of idea at best. The idea that you can have those two guys at the nucleus of something meaningful going forward. And so that's why I have them on their list. I think they have like, if you just stripped away the sort of work requirements of an NBA franchise and how you build something that sustains and lasts and can be meaningful in terms of winning going forward, they have talent that would suggest like, oh, okay, we can be optimistic about what they do. But once you factor in the actual personalities of the people involved, that's when you start to be like, eh, I don't know if like doing something different around the quote unquote nucleus of this core wouldn't be the best path forward.

[Justin Varier]

I do like that they have made some smart business decisions ever since the new ownership took over. We've seen throughout the NBA over the course of we've been doing this pod like new owners doing stupid things. They've done the complete opposite where they've almost been overly prudent and like thinking more in the long term. After years and years and years of the Charlotte Hornets just playing for that season, just trying to get the AC'd Michael Jordan just trying to ram in like a college all star into a team that's just like already fine to begin with. I just like that they're looking at this like big picture. They haven't said like lamelo ball, we got to take advantage of what he is. We got to build around him and build a winner right now. If anything they're like, maybe Lamel Ball isn't our guy. Maybe it's actually Brandon Miller. Plus whatever we get down the road. And I think both Rob and I have talked in the past about saloon and just like how he doesn't really have a lot of the ball skills that you'd want from an NBA basketball player. But I like that approach in the draft because in a draft like last year's where it was basically a crapshoot to begin with, you had a lot of teams picking from need as opposed to future potential. Like they were thinking like, let's just hit a home run. We have a top pick. If it doesn't work out, who cares? We're just going to keep being as bad as possible to be as good as possible down the road. And I appreciate that perspective as opposed to someone like a different team that's just like right in the middle and trying to figure things out just to be like for instance, the Bulls. I mean, the Bulls would be the perfect counter example to this.

[Big Waz]

I hear you. I think, I mean, people do care if someone hits or not. Like it's very important to their team if he hits or not. And I, as I stated before, I'm just like waiting to see whatever it was that they saw in him because I. He fades into the background of a lot of games. He doesn't have a lot of skills that like really jump out at you. I want him to be good, but I find myself just wanting a lot from him.

[Justin Varier]

Looks like an MMA fighter. I think that's what they saw in him. He certainly has the giant athlete.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I think that's what you're banking on is like positional flexibility, defending multiple spots, like, you know, a new age forward, a new age wing. Like I can, I can get that part of it. I just don't see the overall cohesive game and maybe it will come in time. Like again, these are all future situations and we're waiting to see with them. I think having Lamelo under contract for four more years is a pretty good situation for Charlotte. Like you don't have quite as much pressure to, as you say, Justin, accelerate things really quickly in the way the previous regime did. Speed into the skid. Like you can take your time with this thing a little bit more. And I think there's a pretty decent demarcation between four and five for me. Like I have the Hornets at five. I don't think they're in a bad situation. I just think that the NBA doesn't have a lot of terrible situations right now. There are some teams with bad vibes. There's some teams season, their season has gone off the rails. But overall, Charlotte has good young players. They have Dallas's 20, 27 first round pick, which could turn out to be quite good. And they have like a. A good coach who's like building something there. So I, I think there's enough there to like. It's just that they haven't really started putting it all together just yet.

[Justin Varier]

There's a long term vision where it seems like everybody's aligned on how they're moving forward. And I can't say that above the team I have at number five, which is the Chicago Bulls, who seems like they finally got the message.

[Big Waz]

That's my. Yeah, that's my question. Only five?

[Justin Varier]

Oh, you have them higher. Oh, I think like the other teams are just so much worse. And at the end of the day, like, I do think market muscle matters when you get To a certain point. Like, could the Bulls, if they show enough in the next two to three years, like, attract a star free agent there? Maybe. Maybe. Probably not. They haven't in a very long time.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

But I think. I think it's within the realm of possibility at the very least. You've seen guys go to Brooklyn when there's absolutely nothing there or just like go to the Clippers who like, have just been clearly the number two team in that market for a while. So I don't know. We'll see. I also think they have some guys that I like there. They have Bezelas, who we've talked about in the last pot, is the guy with some potential. You know how much I appreciate Josh Gady and what he brings to the table.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Playing very well of late. And also like the guys that they have left over who are veterans, are now expiring contracts. So if they wanted to like, make a swing and make sense, like Vuch and Herder, I like the second, like almost not second draft, but like second poll at Herder because he didn't work out with the Kings, it's like, let's give him a shot. If he doesn't do well, he's on. He's an expiring contract and there he goes. Yeah, Collins, Kobe, White's a good player. So they just like have enough stuff. And to me, that market, I think that was enough to push them ahead of the horn. So I probably would have had six if we went that low.

[Big Waz]

That's a lot of stuff that I don't feel very confident in.

[Justin Varier]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the problem, the problem for the Bulls, I had number two.

[Big Waz]

I also have them number two. I also have them number two.

[Rob Mahoney]

Number two. And it's not just the players that are currently on the roster. And we think we know what direction they're going in terms of them trading Zach lavine, like, they're going in some youth driven direction. Do we actually know that? Are we not sure that that's what they're going to do? I just think they're so horribly mismanaged and the fact that they don't even have a talent that they could botch. Right. Like, they don't even have that. Where you could be like, man, they got this thing and if they could just put. They don't even have that. So, like the idea that they're going to draft the right guy, that they're going to bring in the surrounding pieces that matter, that the coaching is actually going to make sense around what they bring in that there's going to be any cohesion. I have no confidence in it. And so while I like the fact that they did move on from Zach lavine, I look at this roster, I'm just like, it's just good enough that they could be like, oh, let's add on to this, this off season.

[Big Waz]

I can't believe we're still here. I can't believe we're still having this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Conversation about the Rhines Dorfs. Some of the worst owners in sports. I know we say it a lot up on this show. They don't get nearly enough of the guff that they deserve for being so horrible as owners. And Justin mentioned market, might your owners have to act like that?

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Your owners have to let players know, like, look, we may not be the Lakers or we may not be the Knicks in terms of money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but we're going to make you feel like we are, you know, some top of the line organization in some number one media market, blah, blah, blah. They don't act like that. They treat this shit like it's a freaking, you know, double A league. So that, that's why I still see the future of the Bulls as bleak as hell.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. I think for this exercise, you know, there's the question of, like, what players on these teams do you believe in? And the Bulls have some players I believe in. I think Boozelis is the most interesting prospect they have going forward. A guy that I'm, I'm eager to see what he can become. And I think he can. I think he could probably be quite good. But then there's the question of, like, what front offices do you believe in and what ownership groups do you believe in? And I just don't think we have any reason to think that the Bulls know what they're doing at all. It is bad process after bad process after bad process. It's waiting too long on guys they should have traded. It's holding on to guys they should have traded. It's selling low when you shouldn't sell low. It's giving Pat Williams one of the worst contracts in the league when he's shown absolutely no capacity to earn it. And so like all of these things, like, I see a team that, as you're saying jv, like there are some spots on it that like, these are real NBA players. Kobe White's a good player. He's also due for a significant raise in a year. And now, now all of a sudden he's one of the best players on your team. If not the best player on your team and what, what kind of direction does that put you in going forward and how does that handcuff you when your future is. Boozel is putting it together as quickly as possible. Kobe White, who we like. Lonzo Ball, whether he can stay healthy. Josh Giddey, who I understand he's playing a little better lately. I understand that the Bulls have some wins. I. I can promise you I. I'm not moved by it. I like we have, we have seen quite a body of work from both in Chicago. He has, he has been perfectly fine. And I come on, I am not in a rush to tether my future or the future of my franchise as the Bulls will have to do to Josh Giddey.

[Justin Varier]

Well, they have plenty of funds coming up so they could splash as much money Giddy's way as they want to. But I think you guys are right. If you're looking at this from an organizational standpoint, you're looking at ownership first and foremost. I would say on this list, maybe second worst. We'll talk about the team that I have at number one later on. But ye. There's now a long track record to suggest that whomever is making the decisions, whoever is playing these games, it might not matter because of what they're doing in the ownership box. The one thing I will say though is that Jimmy Dolan managed to attract some free agents to the Garden and if he could do it then I think like the Reinstorf can probably do it too. So I don't know. I just. When it comes down to it, like I'm always going to factor in that and give the edge to a Chicago than a Charlotte. When we're talking about like NBA stars, free freedom of will, their choice of where they want to live their lives sure is a major factor in how good a team is first like now and then in the future.

[Big Waz]

Well, and all the Knicks had to do to get that free agent was employ his dad as an assistant coach and then take a gigantic moonshot on a player who had been pretty good and turned out to be a freaking star. Like I all due respect to the Knicks, but Jalen Brunson is not a normal free agent situation.

[Justin Varier]

If anything, that's more likely that they could do that than like get AD to come back home to Chicago.

[Big Waz]

They would have to scout the next Jalen Brunson and I do not trust the Bulls to do that.

[Rob Mahoney]

But part of it too guys, is like forget the free agent. It's sort of the pre agency you have to have the guy that somebody, if they don't sign with you in free agency, forces a team to get you to.

[Justin Varier]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like Jimmy being like, all right, I'll okay a trade to Steph Curry, you know, or Dame, who unsuccessfully but was like, I want to go to Miami. He has a really close relationship with a Bam Adebayo. Right? Like, who the hell do the Bulls have that Somebody's going to be like, yeah, no, no, no, no. I want to pair up with him.

[Big Waz]

Like, they don't even have Kaylan Horton Tucker.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God. Talk about bad boy.

[Justin Varier]

Big in the clutch system.

[Rob Mahoney]

Lord have mercy.

[Justin Varier]

Well, here's how I look at it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, he's got a dad buddy at 25. This is nasty.

[Justin Varier]

Which happens to all of us.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I don't criticize that one. That's very relatable.

[Justin Varier]

What if the Bulls look into the number one or number two pick? They have Dylan Harper right now, and he just ends up being incredible. He's the new Darren Williams or whatever you want to say. Or Cooper flag. Yeah, exactly. And I think, like, they can make that pivot way quicker than a team like Charlotte could. For instance, like our team that's starting from scratch, like Utah Jazz, like, who the hell is Utah going to attract down to Utah? Like, yeah, if Ace Bailey all of a sudden becomes a free agent, like, five to seven years down the road and he's just as good as Harper, like, you don't think he would want to come to Charlotte or, excuse me, Chicago, as opposed to, like, the reverse in Utah, that matters. I think.

[Big Waz]

I think that does matter. I just. I like Utah's situation significantly more to the point that they.

[Justin Varier]

Not on your list.

[Big Waz]

They're not on my list.

[Justin Varier]

Whoa.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're. They're knocking on my list, but they're. They're just not messy enough. And, you know, you have some level of. Of respect for Danny Ainge's ability to build a winner, but, like, to be honest, like, they're kind of the Bulls with better management structure, and, you know, a lot more picks. A lot more picks.

[Big Waz]

This is the. Let's. We'll save that for when it comes up on Justin's list. But so we've all done our five. Woz, who do you have at four?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, the Wizards.

[Big Waz]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't, like, really like any of their young players. To me, they're going to be tanking for the next three years. There's nothing to be excited like, look, I like, cool about, like, he has a great physical attribute for a wing it's like, wow, his physicality. His physical traits hop off the page. I don't think he's going to be our next Anthony Edwards, Devin Booker, whatever type of wing. Like, I don't see that. Maybe you guys do. I don't like SAR is little shit that we've seen of him. Look, he looks like he has some great potential defensive upside. Like, there's nothing here that would indicate that, like, you know, a Rockets of last year, not even this year of last year is on the horizon for them. I don't see it. And so they're my fourth team because, like, look, they're doing the right thing. They're accumulating young draft guys and assets and all of that stuff. But, like, boy, like, are you guys, like, obsessed with Kispert? Are you guys, like, see Kispert playing? Like, man, the future's so bright here. I don't see it.

[Big Waz]

It's not very bright.

[Justin Varier]

I have them at number two.

[Big Waz]

I have them at number three. Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Okay. For the exact reason Woz lays out, they've basically just completely raised down the garden bed, and they're just starting anew, and they're just starting to plant new sorts of things, and so far, none of the vegetables are really, well, too appealing.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're not homeowners like you. We don't have gardens and backyard privilege. Why are you explaining? We don't understand at all.

[Justin Varier]

Okay. It's like starting a new business on Fairfax and all of a sudden, just putting a bunch of hypebeast logos on shirts. You don't know if people will buy them, but they look cool to you. Is that better?

[Rob Mahoney]

We got to get to Justin's house in August for the Roma tomatoes. Rob, this guy is.

[Justin Varier]

Oh, they're coming in domestic summer solstice pod. You should totally do that.

[Big Waz]

Summer solstice pod is our best bit yet. I think we got to ride that right into the ground.

[Justin Varier]

That's good. So the wizards currently have 11 wins. The Oklahoma City Thunder have 11 losses. That's how dire this has been. But I have to say, if we're, like, playing devil's advocate here, even though I have them at number two, the fact that this hasn't spilled over and is just, like, a complete catastrophe. If anything, they've, like, completely pushed out some of the knuckleheads, like the Kyle Kuzma's of the world. Jordan pool still there, but it doesn't seem like he's affecting any sort of the rebuilding process.

[Big Waz]

Like, semi reformed, I would say.

[Justin Varier]

I would. I would Agree. Yeah. Chris Middleton just like a totally stand up dude and it just seems like they're boring but they are at the very least following the steps, doing the hard work to get to a place that they never got with Bradley Beal. Fortunately, like they're betting on a hope and a prayer at this point. Like I just don't think hoping for lottery luck is a plan. And so for that reason, like what am I attracted to with this team? It's just like the fact that they're going to be in the lottery for the next two to three years.

[Rob Mahoney]

Carrington might pop.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, he might.

[Big Waz]

But just you said hoping for lottery luck isn't a plan, but that was just the plan you laid out for the Chicago Bulls is hope. Hope and pray that you get Cooper flag and then maybe your team will be saved.

[Justin Varier]

That's fair. But then you have to factor in the market as well.

[Big Waz]

It's, it's very true. Like the Wizards, to the extent that anything is happening here, it is a long way away from happening. And I think that's also a problem with their veterans too. Who. You don't need me to stump for Chris Middleton on this podcast. I like Marcus Smart, fine. I think Jordan Poole has had a respectable turnaround for his season. All three of those guys, if you wanted to move them, would be very tricky to move and would take some doing just given where they are in their careers, the amount of money that they're owed, their injury histories. In some cases it's not a very malleable team. And so then you have all of these young players who you're trying to find time and space for. You know, you're trying to make sure that Keyshawn George can be the best that he can be. You want to, you know, Corey Kisper is probably in the middle ground of this where he's not as young as the koulibaly types, but clearly not quite part of the veteran corps. Maybe he's someone who has a market if you wanted to move things around. But why would you? That's kind of where the Wizards are like they don't have any kind of definitive direction. They don't have a single singular prospect or two that give them momentum in what they're trying to build. And Alex Sar, to the extent that he could ever be, that probably will not be for some years. So they, they just have to be on this list. They just don't have enough going for them and they are so bad in at present that they, they couldn't quite like they there's no way they could justify their way out of it.

[Justin Varier]

How many of these guys that are playing on this team right now are going to be on the final version that they expect to be pretty good? It's probably Koulibale. Probably Sar. Is it anybody else? Do you like any of these other guys, Rob?

[Big Waz]

Not enough to make that kind of claim. I think everything else is. Honestly, even those guys, I would say, are not exactly like nailed down as Washington Wizards. It's. It's all very. It's like. It's all very ad hoc. And I think we're going to see what the Wizards value and how those guys develop. There's just so many variables stacked on variables with guys who are 19 and 20 and 21 years old, and I don't really trust basically any of them.

[Justin Varier]

Was you're a big Justin Champagne guy, right? I've heard you just talking about his.

[Rob Mahoney]

Converted two ways for sure. Just been just grinding the tape on that Champagne kid.

[Big Waz]

They just locked him down, though. Shout out to Justin Champagne like, you know, honestly, good work a day NBA player.

[Justin Varier]

The Champagne family is having a real come up this.

[Big Waz]

It's very true.

[Justin Varier]

Couple months. Yeah. So I had them at two, Rob. You had them where? Three?

[Big Waz]

I had them at three and was.

[Justin Varier]

Had them at four. Do you want to do your number four, Rob?

[Big Waz]

Yeah, my number four is the Philadelphia 76ers. I think I just reached a point where we've talked about the vibes being horrendous in Philly, and they are. They have these two massive contracts with Embiid and Paul George that make it difficult to basically do anything around the edges or to dramatically reimagine what this team would look like. But at the end of the day, they have at minimum, Tyrese Maxey and at minimum, whatever Joel Embiid is able to give you. And that's just far and away better from a player perspective than any other team we're really even considering here. So there's only so far that they can fall. I think what puts them on this list for me and puts them on this list at 4, is that they are just the biggest quagmire in the entire league. They don't have any direction they can go that feels good. And so while they might not be the worst team on paper or the least talented team, it's like if they continue on their current course, their seasons will ride and die with the health of a star who probably will never be himself ever again. And that's a terrible thing to have to say. And I hate that we're here with Joel, but the history speaks for itself. The team itself is trying to like all the reports are pointing to these radical treatment methods and radical explorations just to, not to get him back to who he was, but to get him to the point that he can play through seasons. That's now your future if you want to continue along this path. I think they can come back as currently constructed and be decent next year, like reasonably healthy. They can be a decent team, but the ceiling on them feels so low and it feels like it could give out at basically any moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

Dude, they're talking about resurrecting from the dead the micro fracture surgery that we had long since buried as a viable option. When people are having this particular problem with their knee, people are so out of answers as to how to fix Joel Embiid's knee situation that this is the, these are the conversations we're having. And they're my number three team. And the reason why I think if Paul George and Joel embiid at their 50 million plus a year contracts, if they could play 65 games a year at a diminished version of themselves and we just allowed Maxi to working with diminished versions of an all star, all time, big when he's right and Paul George, who has like been a 10 year, damn near 10 time all star in his freaking career, you could still be damn good doing that. The problem is that there can't be any expectation that these guys would even play 50 games next year. And then like moving these guys. Yeah, where you're like, oh, let's just get off of the money. Let's you know, try to get some picks or maybe some deciding young guys or like I, I don't know how you trade for Joel Embiid. I think it was number.

[Big Waz]

I think it would cost the Sixers if they tried to move these guys. Not that there is zero market, but the market would be so complex they would probably have to give things up in some fashion to accommodate a Paul George trade or a Joel Embiid trade.

[Justin Varier]

I don't know. I mean, so in 2028, 2029, when you'll be listening to this podcast with VR goggles on or like simulated versions of us doing the podcast as we're like feeding them in via AI. That is when Joel Embiid will be making $67 million USD. $67 million. He's currently 30. He'll be about 34 around then. I, I don't know, man. I would not if I'm an organization at any point in my life cycle and I could fit that into my book, I would not do it. It's just like there's, it's just so scary. Like you don't know if this guy's going to play or not. And if he does play, is he going to be all that effective? When the the Sixers had Maxi Embiid and Paul George on the court together this year, 7 and 8 sub 500 team. So it's not like when he's playing, he's awesome. If anything, like, he's shown significant signs of being worse defensively and then he's just so big and so heavy. Like, man, I think there's just going to be natural atrophy for that player regardless of the injury situation. So I have met number four. I think because there's such this, like, doubt or like we don't know what's going to happen medically with Embiid or Paul George, we should point out, I think there's like a possibility that Rob laid out like they could be okay, but I don't know where they get better than that. And I think if we knew more about the injuries, I think they could easily be number one in this list.

[Big Waz]

I think better than that would have to include hitting it big in the lottery, which means keeping their pick in the first place, which, as we said, is a little, a little touch and go right now. Jared McCain coming back and being a real impact player again in a way that he barely had a chance to prove in his rookie season. And then, yeah, you're either using that pick to cash in on a player who is relevant immediately, which is, I would say, more common now for rookies than maybe it has been historically. But we'll have to see with this draft class where they end up or flipping that pick for someone who can actually contribute to the Sixers now, which I think would be a perfectly reasonable and valuable enterprise to, to kind of like knock on some doors and make some phone calls and see what kind of like good rotation veteran you could get for that pick. But that's already a lot of things having to go right, and that's on top of all the health concerns and that's on top of hoping that, like this year you haven't run Maxi into the ground playing in 40 minutes a night for a season that's going nowhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's an ox. He'll be straight.

[Big Waz]

I hope so.

[Justin Varier]

Was. Here's a question going forward from this point, do you think you would rather have Paul George or Tobias Harris.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think for championship purposes, if your team is actually trying to think they can win a championship, I'd rather have Paul George, but for what Detroit is doing, or if I was say Charlotte or if I was, I don't know, Portland or I'd rather have Tobias like, you know, a competent shooting, four man professional, knows how to treat people. All of that like he, you know, all of the stuff that isn't tied to his max contract that he was on in Philadelphia and his shortcomings with that, but everything outside of that. Yeah, he's a, he's a high quality NBA player. Um, I just don't think in like the biggest moments, you know, that he becomes that kind of player. I think Paul George still has it in. Again, this guy was all NBA last year. Yeah, maybe he's not all NBA, but he's a damn solid 38 minute a game postseason player, which I don't think Tobias Harris is that anymore.

[Big Waz]

But even what you just laid out like as you're saying it was last year, Paul George is an all NBA guy, really, really good. Even in his, even in like his age right now and with his injury history, still was able to be really highly effective. The answer last season would have been in 100% of cases. You take Paul George now. It's like a pretty narrow window of team that would want Paul George over tobias Harris.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which 50. Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Well, just because he, as you're saying he can't be a work a day guy anymore. He is, he's basically become the star version of an X factor. Right. Like he is a swing piece that takes a contending team and can give them some things that they badly need. But he can't be that thing for lots of other teams. And so as you're knocking around the possibilities of oh, can the Sixers trade Paul George? I think that's worth keeping in mind that a lot of teams out there would get more out of a Tobias Harris type player. He's not as good as Paul George. He's not close to as good as Paul George, but he has more to offer over 82 games than Paul George does.

[Justin Varier]

The resurrection of Tobias Harris, Incredible. Everyone owes him an apology because everyone dragged him through the mud and all of us. Yep, he's exactly what every young team needs. Just like a solid floor raising guy who's going to shoot some threes and get the fuck out of the way. Do you think now that Paul George isn't doing one podcast a week or whatever it is, he's just going to all of A sudden click back into place. Do you think his mind just was thinking about all the. The in depth questions he was going to ask his guests? Because I'll be honest, sometimes I get a little derailed on this podcast, just setting you guys up that I can't really perform at my best. I could only see if it was. I was like on an NBA court.

[Big Waz]

But he's not. He, like, with all due respect to Paul George's podcasting, he's not doing a Justin variant role.

[Justin Varier]

Right.

[Big Waz]

He's getting takes off. I would say it's. Yeah, it's the other guy's responsibility to set him up.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Not all. Not everyone can be a Tobias Harris and not everyone can be a jv. You know, like, these are very specialized roles and we value them deeply.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's what you need to know about Paul George Group group chatting. Paul George podcasting is that he's the kind of guy who thinks telling people he stopped podcasting actually matters. That's like, that's all you need to know about the whole podcasting bit. That he thinks it matters that people know this.

[Justin Varier]

He's locked in.

[Big Waz]

He's locked in.

[Justin Varier]

All right, number three. Rob, you already gave your number three, right?

[Big Waz]

Yeah, Mine was the Wizards at three. So is anyone's three yet? Unclaimed?

[Justin Varier]

Yes. Nope.

[Rob Mahoney]

My six is the Utah. My six is. Okay, that's interesting.

[Big Waz]

Okay, talk us through the jazz.

[Justin Varier]

I just.

[Big Waz]

1.

[Justin Varier]

I'm honestly offended that they've retanked, basically that they went on a tanking journey. Just decided that, like, all right, well, guess we'll be pretty good. And then walk that back and now have just completely bottomed out. Is like, as a, as like just a fan of basketball, I'm a little offended. And so for that reason, I have to ding them. Just like the karmic, just like disgust that is going on right now I think is going to have some comeuppance in the near future. And so like the planet all Gods.

[Big Waz]

You'Re saying some comeuppance?

[Justin Varier]

I think so, man. They're just like, so putrid and they just don't have to be. It just. You're offending the sensibilities of this. Like the karmic basketball guys that dictate everything that I'm 100% sure that they do. And so for that reason, I'm just like, you know, what do you have? They do have some, like, solid role players that if they did have a Cooper flag, a Dylan Harper, someone to come right in there, I do think they could turn this around pretty quickly. Assets are good, the picks are good. Cody Williams, not very good. But like with the Wizards, I think if you're just hoping and praying for a number one pick, that's not necessarily a plan and so I do have to ding them for that.

[Big Waz]

Don't they need to tank though? Like this is a team that hasn't had the like. Well, not just the market. Well, that is a huge factor. But they haven't had the like top three crack at the draft yet. Right. Like they've been picking in more the mid late lottery for the most part and getting a lot of guys that as you kind of alluded to. Maybe there's something there, maybe there's not. Like is Cody Williams ever going to be a like a real relevant longtime NBA player? Like a pillar for a franchise? I honestly don't know. Like Isaiah Collier. Fine. Keante George, I guess he's coming on a little bit more lately. It's been a weird kind of pull the plug season on him. Bryce Sensiba. I can't say I'm burdened with confidence about where he is right now. I love. Kendrick is really good. Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

I think George at worst can be like a Jordan Clarkson energy score. You need those. Obviously the, the Jazz have that in abundance right now and, and then obviously Lori's out there just waiting for someone to just let him play compet to basketball.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what I'm saying. That's why they're not on my list. I do think the basketball is putrid. I do think they're as far as pretty much anybody we've mentioned so far on this list from contending for a championship. Like I don't think they could say like, oh, we're so much closer to championship basketball than the Wizards. I don't believe that to be the case. But I do think the building blocks are just much more proven and more exciting in terms of Laurie and Walker Kessler and all of the picks that they've accumulated from the Rudy deal and the Donovan deal and stuff like that. I do think they're just more there. So they were on the cusp because I just think talent wise, there's no reason to think the Jazz are going to be knocking on the door of the Western Conference finals for a long ass time. Right. And I think the reason that they've taken this approach is because Danny Ainge apparently is best friends with the freaking owner. So he's one of those GM job security types that could just do whatever the hell he wants. And so it's taking forever for them to even try something to the point where they were so damn cocky, they didn't even bother tanking for Wembanyama, which was insane at the time. Okay. But I think they got enough that they stayed right at, you know, the outside of my list.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. I think what separates them is the ability to accelerate when they want to. This feels very much like a team that's waiting for that one piece. Like, they are waiting in the same way that we said the Wizards are waiting, right, to hit the lottery, hit it big, get that one prospect in the door that can change things dramatically for you. But once they get that guy, Cooper, flag or otherwise, then they have all of these picks to rev up and shift gears as basically as quickly as they want to. Like, they have an incredible amount of draft capital, and all of the guys we mentioned, some of them might hit. Like, I think Walker Kessler is already a quite good NBA player. Lowry Markkanen, as we alluded to, is not having his best year, basically because the Jazz don't want or need him to have his last year. Is kind of trying some things, developmentally speaking.

[Justin Varier]

Sabbatical, basically.

[Big Waz]

He's basically on a sabbatical and is, like, openly experimenting with his role in these games and, like, the kinds of shots that he can get off. You put him alongside a point guard who is not Isaiah Collier. With all due respect, that game looks very different. Everything he's doing looks so different. So you give them one prospect, and they are in line to get that prospect to the draft. They're in line to trade multiple picks to move up if they need to. I just think they have options in a way that some of these other, like, you know, 14 and 15 win teams don't.

[Justin Varier]

I just like the idea of Laurie marketing just, like, taking games off to just, like, go to festivals. Like, you'll see him at Lollapalooza and be like, oh, there's. There's Laurie. He just. He just dropped 20 on the Bulls last night, but here he is just, like, watching rem.

[Big Waz]

Do you think he's into rem? There's no way he's into. He's more into, like, Doja Cat than he is rem.

[Justin Varier]

I was going to say, like, mgmt. He likes the classics.

[Rob Mahoney]

Love mgmt.

[Justin Varier]

It just turns into. Turns into the Plumlee that got really into Botturoo that time. Do you remember that?

[Big Waz]

I do remember that. I like the idea that MGMT just made it to Finland. You know, it just. It just made it across. And so they oh man. Can't. Can't get enough.

[Justin Varier]

So I did do my pick grading system thing that pretty much only Rob likes. But we'll just go through it yet again because I do think it's important to understanding some of these pick allotments that people have. A lot of these picks are coming from good teams. It's Cavs and Wolves at this point. Both teams, I think we would all agree have long track records. Wolves playing more inspired lately. We got to talk about that soon on a pod.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even if they're playing at a 23rd pick level, like who's getting hyped about that?

[Justin Varier]

But I think they have two good picks in their stash at this point and now things can change like the Cavs. Injuries happen. These picks are so far out that like an entire world of possibilities out there. But right now I would say 2031 Phoenix picks which is an A plus. It might be the absolute best pick. Although you can almost look at it as maybe it's so far out there that the Suns will basically bottom out and rebound by that point six years from now.

[Big Waz]

I think you want those though, like you want the uncertainty of the distance and frankly I think the Phoenix pick is instructive in this way. That is a market for desperate second apron teams to trade away their potentially very good future picks for your maybe not so good Justin Varier lower rated picks.

[Justin Varier]

That was, yeah, that was a really bad sign for Phoenix and then they didn't really end up using most of those. So that Phoenix pick A plus, I have probably one of the best on the board. And then there's a 2029 Minnesota pick which I think is interesting if only because Anthony Edwards could be a free agent the following summer and if that situation ever completely devolved, which again this is so far out in the future we don't know what's going to happen. Like then that one becomes all the way. Pretty interesting because he would probably ask out right before that. 2029 pretty good. You know, next year in 2025 the Jazz have a Cavs and or Minnesota pick. You know, it's not just like they'll have this one or that one. They have the option of both or one or none I think and I've never seen that before. We're so deep in these fucking pick machinations that this is. It's a whole like cottage industry unto itself.

[Big Waz]

I'm hearing a lot of reasons the Jazz should not be on the no power rankings. You know, they got a lot to wear.

[Justin Varier]

They've just offended the sensibilities Williams probably sucks.

[Big Waz]

Kyle Filipowski's transgressions cannot stand.

[Rob Mahoney]

Philipowski, one of the more interesting draft prospects of my life, I'll tell you that much. Go look that up, folks.

[Justin Varier]

Definitely a friend of veterans. Yeah.

[Big Waz]

All right. He's had his moment. He's actually had his moments lately too.

[Justin Varier]

We should say plays well with veterans. So I have them at number three on the no power rankings. I had Wizards at two wise. Do you have any teams that we haven't talked about yet?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, just one team that we haven't talked about. That's my number two, the New Jersey Nets.

[Justin Varier]

Oh, well, they moved back to New Jersey.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, that. I mean, that's how bad things are.

[Justin Varier]

They're bad. They had to go back to the Izod center because things are so bad now.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Brooklyn Nets from the swamp of New Jersey and East Rutherford. Yeah, the same. Same kind of thing with the Bulls, who are my number one, honestly. Team going nowhere fast. The same kind of thing with the Bulls and the Wizards. Nobody on the team that you like that you're like, oh, man, you know what? They have a keeper. This guy's going to be a part of the next great Nets team. This is going to be on the next conference finals. Next team is on this roster right now. No, there's not a single person you can point to. And so they're basically at the bottom at ground zero of trying to figure out how to become, you know, one of the more competitive teams in the league again. And for me, that's just why. And it's not like they're. They're not like the Jazz, who they could be like, well, we have these sort of lottery tickets on these other teams that maybe if, you know, two guys go down and we get a good, you know, lottery pick out of it and blah, like, they don't have any of that. And so that's why I got the Nets. For me, that their future just looks so bleak.

[Big Waz]

It's not good to borrow the JV bit. And as you just laid out, was like, who. Who do you honestly anticipate will still be on this roster when they are good again? Their best players are more likely to be traded than not. Cam Johnson was on the trade block all season. Basically. I would still anticipate he gets moved at some point. Nick Claxton also feels like he's probably in that same camp. To the extent that DLO is going to be part of the plan, he doesn't actually advance it forward in any meaningful way. And so then you're getting into Cam Thomas if you want to keep him, which you're going to have to pay to do. Keon Johnson, Jalen Wilson, plenty of players who are perfectly fine and no real concrete direction whatsoever yet, other than kind of scrambling and splashing around the middle here to be vaguely competitive. And I want to give them credit for that and credit to Jordy Fernandez for giving these guys something to play for, but they just don't have much of a sense of momentum or direction in any particular way. And there is no prospect whatsoever that you can feel really confident is going to be a star.

[Justin Varier]

So. Do you have them on your list, Rob?

[Big Waz]

They're my number one team.

[Justin Varier]

Oh, really? You guys both have them in the top two? I have them. Not on my list at all.

[Big Waz]

Wow.

[Justin Varier]

Crazy.

[Big Waz]

What do you just.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just geeked off a Killian Hayes, ain't you?

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, that one for six performance against the Detroit Pistons, A Ron Sharp.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just got you going crazy over there.

[Justin Varier]

I think I'm just giving more credence to the market than perhaps you guys, because they're another team that I could see flipping things around and getting back into the mix pretty quickly. It's just like guys want to be in New York, guys want to be in Brooklyn. They attracted two of the biggest superstars in the league a couple of years ago and could easily do it again. I also just like. I mean, we talk about De Niro and Casino. Like the Nets love this shit. They love unearthing.

[Big Waz]

First of all, we are not talking about Casino. You are talking about De Niro and Casino. Did you watch it this weekend? What happened?

[Justin Varier]

No, but it's something I've always thought about when it comes to just like someone just getting back to what they do. Well, I don't know. It's just stuck in my head for.

[Big Waz]

That reason you during variable season.

[Justin Varier]

I know I just need to get through the big old glasses and some brightly colored suits and I'll be back in this game. No, they're just. They're so good at turning these C level players into B level players. And I think they're already showing signs of doing that again to the point where they were so good this year with just like a bunch of bums that like they have to stop themselves from being too good. I think Nicholas Claxton, we talk about guys who might not be there. I think he's going to be there for his entire career at this point. He's going to be the Miles Turner of the Nets, where it's like, oh man, he's going to be in Rumors every year, but he's actually in our hall of Fame. They just, I don't know, they just, they always find guys. They have enough here. And I think that plus the market is the reason I didn't put them on the list.

[Big Waz]

They do find guys, but it's also a huge part of their season has just been like, they sign like Tosana woman to a, to a, like a two way contract and all of a sudden he's playing 25 minutes a night. You know, like that's what this roster is right now is there's room for random guys to come out of the scrap heap, to come out of free agency and be meaningful every night. Contributors. Not because they are overwhelmingly positive in their contributions, but just because there's nothing else really going on here.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you know, I like that Nick Claxton is their most highest paid player at only $27 million. So what does that mean? Like, if this were the type of NBA where a lot of great players became eligible of free agency, you like, look, they're well positioned to sign the next great free agen, but they're not. Players don't come up for free agency. So it's like even with their cap flexibility, I'm like, I don't know, like, how are they going to actually make that work outside of doing stuff like what Utah would do a lot and facilitate and being a third team, facilitating trades and getting assets that way. But again, you have to be bad in order to be the kind of team that does those kinds of moves. I just think like, yes, their present isn't, you know, the Bobcats that won six games that one year. Yes. In the present they're not that. So that's nice. But in the future, like, like how do they get back to, you know, that moment when they first traded for James Harden where we were like, holy shit, these guys are championship contenders. You know, how do they get back to that? I just don't see it.

[Justin Varier]

I think the fact that they're following the same exact blueprint that got them to that point almost gives me more faith that they could do it again.

[Big Waz]

Like, there's not even a Jared Allen here, bro.

[Rob Mahoney]

You gotta, I mean like, they vote.

[Justin Varier]

They haven't had enough drafts to define that guy yet. But like, it's only fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

As good as KD saying he wanted to hitch his career wagon to Kyrie. That's what they banked. Like, that's.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

I mean they definitely, they definitely didn't have good taste in. In, like, locker room guys. I'll say that they didn't put enough emphasis on that, but maybe they'll learn from those mistakes. I just like. But this team isn't, like, putrid. And if anything, there aren't, like, bad contracts. They have picks. They have a 2027 Philadelphia 76ers pick, which looks mighty good right now. There's just, like, stuff in that, plus the market, plus, like, the infrastructure. Like, I don't know. I don't. I don't think they're that dire. For instance, like, the Wizards are the. The perfect counterpoint to this, where it's like the Wizards are doing the same exact thing, but they don't have the same market muscle. Plus, like, some of the track records to show to guys in the past, like, come to our team, we'll bring out the best version of you. Spencer Diddy, for instance, for just been.

[Rob Mahoney]

Spending his summers in Australia or something. Something's up with this Nets bias. I don't know what's going on over there.

[Big Waz]

I think you're overstating what this is relative to what the Nets were in those in that kind of developmental heyday where they were just busting out Joe Harris's and Spencer Dinwiddie's and Jared Allen's. Like, nothing. Like, this is a team that to me, has like three. Three guys who are like the fifth best player on a team and then like five guys who are like the eighth best player on a team. If that. And that's not great, I don't disagree.

[Justin Varier]

But I also don't think they've had a long time to build up this sort of. Jared Allen's in the draft, and so I think they'll get those eventually. They have a good eye for players, and I think that matters.

[Big Waz]

I hope so. I will say somebody needs. I don't know whether it's the Nets. Somebody needs to sign Trenton Watford to a real contract next season on a good winning team. That guy can fucking play. Free. Free advice out there for anyone looking to how to use your two ways, how to use your 10 days under contract right now. But somebody get Trenton Watford out of here, please.

[Justin Varier]

Blazers legend Trenton Watford.

[Big Waz]

Absolutely.

[Justin Varier]

So you guys are all done? You have all your teams out there?

[Rob Mahoney]

All my teams. There's this one honor, one honorable mention team for me, number one, I guess.

[Justin Varier]

Which you guys don't have on your.

[Big Waz]

Who is your number one team?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, the Phoenix sun is honorable mention for me.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Guys, this is so fucking bad because the situation is Dire. It's. It's so gross right now. But they're two guys they're going to get plus value for and people players. More so than the Knicks, more so than Chicago, more so than the Nets. Players have demonstrated that they really like going being playing in Phoenix. Like, players fucking like Phoenix for whatever reason. I don't know, they love it. And so they can get off of kd, get off a booker, get a lot of shit and be fine again.

[Justin Varier]

Do you guys remember in free agency where lamarcus Aldridge was looking around and he had that meeting with Phoenix where, like, Tyson Chandler popped out of a closet and it's just like, hey, you want to come down to Phoenix? Those are the good old days, man. I felt like free agency. See, I disagree with that assessment, though. Like, I actually think if you look at it, I don't. I worry that what their return they get will actually be worse than a team that has control over their own draft picks. So the Suns don't control their draft until, like, 2050. At this point, I think it's actually 2031, which is the longest at this point that they can go to. So in 2032, they're hoping to get their future back. I think KD being a free agent after the following season will limit the return. I also wonder if, like, Katie starting to ward off some teams where I was just like, why am I going to ruin my future in order to bring KD in? And so will they get, like, a helpful player or two and like a pick or two? Sure. But I don't know if that's going to be a total bonanza, like, they gave up in order to get him. Fine. Right. And so I think eventually that will mean Devin Booker will probably want out. Then you will probably get a big old haul. But I don't think the picks you're getting from those teams are going to be bad. It's just like the Cavs and the Wolves, like, you're getting back bad picks as opposed to. The main asset of tanking is that your own picks are the worst. By and large, I would say, like 95% of the time. The picks that ultimately land you, the superstar from tanking are your own picks because you are so putrid. They don't have that possibility. And so I think they're going to be treading water in the, like, very mediocre zone for a very long time. That's like, what, like, seven seasons out? I don't see where the help is coming from because there's no, like, Direct path to a full blown superstar as opposed to actually signing someone in free agency, which they might do, but really hasn't happened in the past for, for the Suns.

[Big Waz]

I think we're just zooming past the part where Devin Booker is a top 1512 player in the league right now.

[Justin Varier]

Totally.

[Big Waz]

Like no questions asked. He is that he will have a market that is substantial. I take everything that you're saying seriously as far as like how rebuilding teams.

[Rob Mahoney]

Actually rebuild a young guy who can hoop for Devin Booker in there. It don't gotta be all picks like get your. He's not going to be Shay Gilgis Alexander, but get your thing like that in the trade along with picks like it doesn't have.

[Justin Varier]

Can we do this out then? So let's say so. I think Houston's an interesting example. Right. Like, I actually think they would be, they would be better off waiting for Booker than going for kd. And it sounds like the, the rumor mill kind of suggests the same thing. Let's just say they're, they're going for Devin Booker. They, they're at the negotiating table. Who are we giving up here? Let's say it's like a mental thank.

[Rob Mahoney]

You, come right on down.

[Justin Varier]

I think it's more like Jalen Green, Cam Whitmore, Reed shepherd, perhaps all very good young players. I don't know if that's like functionally changing your situation. Well, that's when you hang up.

[Big Waz]

That's when you hang up the phone and you call Sam Presti and you say I would like Jalen Williams and I would like a collection of your first round picks that you have in store.

[Justin Varier]

Right.

[Big Waz]

Like you start getting pack or you called the Utah Jazz, you get that 2031 pick back and maybe by then they have some actually like developed prospects that they can send you.

[Justin Varier]

That's still like seven years from now. That's a long time to be sucking it.

[Big Waz]

I'm not saying that they will be sucking that long. I'm just saying like, I think Devin Booker creates a healthy market in the event that he wants to leave. And I'm not jumping to the conclusion that he wants, wants to leave. I think he could be one of those guys who just sorts of hang, sort of hangs around. God knows he has already been on enough bad Phoenix Suns teams and maybe that has like conditioned him to it or maybe it'll make him want to leave faster. But ultimately, if you have a player as good as Devin Booker, I just don't see how low things can really, really go as far as like an overall franchise. It's like the vibes are horrendous. No one is enjoying playing for the Phoenix Suns right now. But as far as the future of the team, you still have Devin Booker and you still have whatever future you have with Kevin Durant.

[Justin Varier]

I hear that. I just, I think it's going to be Devin Booker and like Naz Reed just like hoping and praying that they're going to fire up 50 threes a game per player and just like hoping that they can win a game. Because I like that. I love watch it. Yeah. Speaking of Nazride though, do you guys have any like feel of where Kevin Durant could go? Because it seems like this is like a foregone conclusion at this point. Like, do you have any favorites? Do you have any like, ones that you want to see happen?

[Rob Mahoney]

I. That I would like to see happen? My favorite one that I've heard is him going to the Wizards. Just go back home.

[Justin Varier]

Back home.

[Rob Mahoney]

Try to, try to make them relevant. You won't have no championship expectations. We've seen what happened with championship expectations for this guy the last, what, six years? Um, it's been a waste of everybody's time. So why don't we go to opposite direction? Instead of a team chasing a championship, you go to a team that's just trying to become relevant. You're raising their floor several levels. Finally giving your hometown something to love and to root for. I'm stealing this from Carmelo Anthony, who's from, you know, Baltimore area, Maryland, D.C. area guy. But yeah, I would love to see him go to the Wizards. Cause this whole kd, get him to a contender, hope that he stays happy even as he gets every single thing that he wants and blah, blah. Like, I'm sick of that. Like go to D.C. no, I mean.

[Justin Varier]

Build something with Koulibaly.

[Big Waz]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Build something with cool Bali.

[Big Waz]

And Sar sending Kevin Durant at. What is Kevin Durant, 36 years old right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

To play with the Washington Wizards after he's having, for everything that's going on in Phoenix, one of the best, like individual scoring seasons in the league in terms of like self generated offense. Like, he's still Kevin Durant and you want him to go out there and babysit block Kula Bali.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sar looking like a piece. You never know what he can do next to kd.

[Big Waz]

I would love KD on one of these teams that has a good defense and doesn't quite know what to do offensively yet. You know, like the Miami Heat are desperate for shit right now. They're desperate for something to go their way offensively and they are blowing leads left and right.

[Rob Mahoney]

The last two times he moved teams.

[Big Waz]

They did, and they thought they were.

[Rob Mahoney]

Getting him on during the Brooklyn time. They thought they were getting him when the sun swooped in.

[Big Waz]

And this kind of thing is why I was reluctant to put the heat on a list like this, despite the fact that the it's not looking great.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right there right now, but too much respect for Rals.

[Big Waz]

Too much respect. 2 stars who are young enough to put some things together, like that team is going to change shape and maybe it changes shape for someone like Kevin Durant. Maybe the Orlando Magic could get in a conversation like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's the next Wilt Chamberlain. I mean, I'm Coach Abel.

[Justin Varier]

Sorry, you mean Bill Russell?

[Rob Mahoney]

Bill Russell.

[Justin Varier]

Wow.

[Big Waz]

One, one thing that I heard being bandied about as kind of an offshoot of the Rockets conversation is like, could the spurs get in on that? Is that a. Is that a crazy idea? Is that moving too, too much, too fast for them to trade for Fox?

[Rob Mahoney]

Very unswing Spurs?

[Big Waz]

It absolutely would. I don't really see it for that reason. And frankly, as far as people, you want Victor Webanyama and Darren Fox to be able to grow into roles with, Kevin Durant is not the guy I would hand pick for that. But maybe if they decide they want to push fast and like, really steer into whatever they think is going right for them, maybe you could talk yourself into it. I don't see it, though.

[Justin Varier]

I think Miami and Houston are the front runners for all the reasons you guys laid out. I think Miami is probably what he needs that the sort of rigorous culture that will keep him in line and like, keep everyone else in line and just let him do whatever he wants to do. Houston has the assets.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think KD wants to be kept in line by an organization?

[Justin Varier]

I think he wants to not deal with that stuff. I think he just wants to do what he does, which is be the best possible basketball player and hand off the managerial duties. Because let me tell you, trying to do both manager and participant becomes tough sometimes. Does it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Waz]

You want to tell us about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Get your ass out of here.

[Justin Varier]

I think the reunion stuff is fun. There's no way he goes back to okc. But, like, sometimes KD could be so, like, left field with these things. I could see it happening Golden State. Like, I could also see him, like, getting to the summer and being like, actually, I've changed my opinion entirely with Golden State. Let me get back to there. And I Just, I just want to get back with Jimmy Butler and not. Not have the version of the sun that we didn't have.

[Rob Mahoney]

What if they guarantee him a shit ton of money? Like, do we think the team that gets KD is going to guarantee three years of max money on an extension? Like, probably this summer?

[Justin Varier]

Probably. I think KD can age pretty, pretty well just because of how he shoots it, but. And if you do trade for him, I assume it comes with the territory. The one other team I do want to talk about just before we go here is the Wolves. I don't know if you guys saw that around the trade deadline where it's like, Edwards and Katie, your friends, Right? I don't know. I like it. The Wolves are a little bit more bold than I think people give them credit for. Like the Go Bear trade, that was fucking bold. Like the catch. Yeah. So they seem to be more. They're at the table with an itchy finger sort of team, and I could see them pulling something like that off.

[Big Waz]

It also felt like the thing at the time where it was registering interest even when from a practical perspective, a trade like that was almost impossible to execute. It was like, we just want to put this in your head. Kevin Durant slash Phoenix Suns. That, like, we're out here, we want to have this conversation. Let's talk in the summer.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a Rudy swap.

[Big Waz]

I don't even know mechanically what we have to swing at this stage. McDaniel probably involved.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would think he's involved.

[Justin Varier]

Well, here's the thing. Like Randall. Randall's an expiring. So if he opts into his next year, he's an expiring. At that point, it becomes a little bit easier to trade. That's most of the way, you're like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Justin, let me tell you something. He's opting into his deal next year.

[Justin Varier]

I bet you're right.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does not have a scintillating market, bro.

[Justin Varier]

And then like Nas Reed, free agent, can he get thrown into the mechs there if he's already on his way out? Yeah, it could happen. It'd be kind of fun. And it's kind of a left field option that I don't think anyone's expecting.

[Big Waz]

I do like it.

[Justin Varier]

Suns, nine players under contract next year, $208 million. They would already be over the second April.

[Rob Mahoney]

So not on your guys.

[Big Waz]

Nope, not on my list.

[Rob Mahoney]

Light work. Have you seen the housing market? He's good for it.

[Justin Varier]

It's true. All right, let's wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. On production. Thank you to Ben Cruz for filling in on the video side of things. We'll be back. Talk to you then. Must be 21 + and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatincut or visit mdg.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-550. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.