The NBA Expansion Draft With J. Kyle Mann. Plus, the Spurs Shut Down Wemby. | Group Chat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show – "The NBA Expansion Draft With J. Kyle Mann. Plus, the Spurs Shut Down Wemby. | Group Chat"

Release Date: February 21, 2025
Host/Authors: Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with co-host Justin Barrier welcoming Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann back to the "Group Chat" segment after a brief hiatus. The conversation swiftly moves into recent NBA events and upcoming topics.

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Victor Wembanyama's Season in Jeopardy

Timestamp: [05:31] - [10:38]

The team addresses the alarming news that Victor Wembanyama is sidelined for the remainder of the season due to a blood clot in his shoulder. This development raises significant concerns given Wembanyama's status as a rising star in the NBA.

• Chris Ryan:
  "It’s a pretty terrifying revelation about a 21-year-old guy who is as big as Victor Wembanyama. These are the players you worry about, these sorts of health complications arising..." [05:31]

• Rob Mahoney:
  Reflects on Wembanyama’s impressive performance in Netflix's "Quarter Gold" documentary, emphasizing his potential and the fear of a career-ending condition akin to Chris Bosh's experience.
  "...it was just kind of a reminder for me like, damn, this kid is going to do a lot of amazing things." [06:11]

• Kyle Mann:
  Highlights Wembanyama's unique blend of skills and competitiveness, expressing hope for his recovery and future contributions.
  "...you just hope that he can just get healthy and be a healthy human being, period." [07:10]

The discussion underscores the severity of Wembanyama's condition and its potential impact on both his career and the team's dynamics.

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Simulated NBA Expansion Draft

Timestamp: [10:38] - [74:16]

The main segment revolves around a simulated NBA expansion draft, featuring the creation of two new franchises: the Seattle Supersonics and the Las Vegas Blackjacks. The hosts delve into strategic picks, team building, and the implications of the draft process.

Draft Preparation

• Justin Barrier:
  Introduces the concept of expansion week, mentioning articles by Howard Beck and Michael Pina. He also brings up the unfortunate news about Wembanyama before segueing into the expansion draft discussion.
  "...leveraging Kyle's scouting background today because we're going to get into a little bit of an expansion draft..." [04:26]

Team Formation and Naming

• Rob Mahoney:
  Jokes about the naming process, suggesting "Blackjacks" for Las Vegas and playfully remarking on the potential naming conflicts.
  "...one of the names that were thrown about were the Black Jacks..." [11:44]

• Chris Ryan:
  Agrees with the name "Blackjacks," emphasizing its simplicity and appeal.
  "Blackjacks it is. I have no argument." [12:07]

Draft Picks: Seattle Supersonics

1. Santi Aldama from Memphis Grizzlies

   • Justin Barrier:
     "First pick of the expansion draft, the Seattle Supersonic select, Santi Aldama from Memphis Grizzlies." [16:25]
   • Chris Ryan:
     Highlights Aldama's versatility and potential as a franchise cornerstone.
     "I believe Santiago Dama is exactly the kind of player I was just talking about." [16:40]

2. Nicola Topich from Oklahoma City Thunder

   • Chris Ryan:
     Describes Topich as a versatile wing capable of contributing in multiple facets of the game.
     "He can be a versatile tool that could be a part of your franchise for a long time." [20:00]

3. AJ Mitchell from Oklahoma City Thunder

   • Justin Barrier:
     Emphasizes Mitchell's development as a classic Thunder rookie with growth potential.
     "He's a classic Thunder developmental guy. Cheap guy as we mentioned before, cost controlled." [35:07]

4. Jonathan Mogbo

   • Kyle Mann:
     Advocates for Mogbo's defensive prowess, describing him as a reliable switch defender.
     "Jonathan Mogbo is who I'm taking. He is a connector. He's, he's a switchable defender." [40:17]

5. Ben Shepard from Indiana Pacers

   • Chris Ryan:
     Views Shepard as a solid 3-and-D role player ready to contribute immediately.
     "Ben Shepard... a solid three and D wing that we cancel into our line." [41:21]

6. Trace Jackson Davis

   • Chris Ryan:
     Considers Davis a versatile big who fits the team's needs both offensively and defensively.
     "Trace Jackson Davis... big man, we don't have one of those yet." [42:07]

7. Wendell Carter Jr. from Orlando Magic

   • Justin Barrier:
     Notes Carter's defensive capabilities and versatility, despite concerns about his contract length.
     "He is a good player. He's kind of been lost in the shuffle there." [44:38]

8. Isaiah Joe from Oklahoma City Thunder

   • Justin Barrier:
     Praises Joe's shooting prowess and fit within the team's offensive strategy.
     "Isaiah Joe... his shooting speaks for itself." [46:34]

9. Deandre Ayton from Phoenix Suns

   • Justin Barrier:
     Selects Ayton to bolster the center position, anticipating potential resale value or trade opportunities.
     "We're taking DeAndre in number 17 overall in the expansion draft." [66:00]

Draft Picks: Las Vegas Blackjacks

1. Cam Whitmore from Houston Rockets

   • Chris Ryan:
     Compares Whitmore to Gerald Wallace, seeing him as a versatile wing with long-term potential.
     "Cam Whitmore has the profile of a big wing who can score, who can theoretically do lots of things." [20:00]

2. Gigi Jackson from Memphis Grizzlies

   • Rob Mahoney:
     Appreciates Jackson's development and his fit within the expansion team's framework.
     "Jordan, pool. Come on down. He's been a revelation..." [31:07]

3. Jordan Poole from Golden State Warriors

   • Justin Barrier:
     Highlights Poole's impact and value despite his current contract constraints.
     "He's been surprisingly good this year within the context of Jordan Poole's..." [38:35]

4. Ben Shepard

   • Same as Seattle's pickup, emphasizing the role-playing aspect.

5. Wendell Carter Jr.

   • Same as Seattle's pickup, noting his defensive versatility.

6. Mike Conley Jr.

   • Chris Ryan:
     Envisions Conley as a veteran presence and future assistant GM, fostering a strong organizational culture.
     "...Mike Conley, player slash future assistant GM of the Black Jacks." [72:18]

7. Ikoro Omax Prosper

   • Chris Ryan:
     Chooses Prosper for his defensive energy and potential growth.
     "He's going to be the guy who adds energy and... pressure." [56:23]

---

Team Strategy and Insights

Throughout the draft simulation, the hosts discuss the strategic balance between youth and experience, contract considerations, and the importance of building a cohesive team culture. They emphasize the need for versatile players who can develop within the organization and contribute immediately.

• Justin Barrier:
  Advocates for selecting players who fit the long-term vision while maintaining flexibility in contracts.
  "Flexibility, youth, upside." [18:11]

• Rob Mahoney:
  Stresses the value of veterans who can stabilize the team and mentor younger players.
  "He's a good player. Very versatile." [44:38]

• Kyle Mann:
  Focuses on defensive anchors and players who can fulfill specific team needs.
  "We need an adult defensive anchor for our basketball team." [61:15]

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Conclusion and Reflections

As the simulated expansion draft concludes, the hosts reflect on the outcomes, expressing satisfaction with their team selections while humorously acknowledging the challenges of building a new franchise.

• Justin Barrier:
  Summarizes the draft results for both teams, expressing excitement for the new franchises.
  "It's a fun exercise... We love this exercise." [73:39]

• Chris Ryan:
  Comments on the depth and quality of players available, noting the limitations of expansion drafts in assembling a star-studded roster.
  "This is what you're looking forward to... second draft guys, distressed veterans..." [73:57]

• Kyle Mann:
  Teases continuing involvement in the NBA draft coverage and promotes upcoming content.
  "We're going to be bad and if we try to be good, we're not going to be very good." [75:50]

The episode concludes with a promotion for upcoming content and a light-hearted sign-off, highlighting the camaraderie among the hosts and their enthusiasm for future NBA developments.

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Notable Quotes

• Justin Barrier:
  "Flexibility, youth, upside." [18:11]
  "We are going to have some wild cards clearly with the rest of our lineup." [38:14]

• Chris Ryan:
  "We do have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025." [00:51]
  "This is what you're looking forward to, guys of this caliber mostly?" [73:57]

• Rob Mahoney:
  "He gives us an energy that I think is really beneficial to this group." [56:23]
  "The Blackjacks better be black, too." [75:37]

---

Key Takeaways

1. Victor Wembanyama's Health Crisis:

   • A significant setback for one of the league's brightest stars, raising concerns about his career longevity and team performance.

2. Expansion Draft Strategies:

   • Emphasis on balancing young talent with experienced veterans to build competitive teams.
   • Focus on versatile players who can adapt and grow within the organization.

3. Team Dynamics:

   • Seattle Supersonics prioritize youth and potential with players like Santi Aldama and Nicola Topich.
   • Las Vegas Blackjacks blend energetic veterans with promising young talents such as Cam Whitmore and Mike Conley Jr.

4. Future Content:

   • Hosts promote ongoing draft coverage, scouting reports, and additional podcast content aimed at enhancing listener engagement and understanding of NBA dynamics.

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This episode provides an insightful and entertaining exploration of the complexities involved in an NBA expansion draft, blending strategic analysis with light-hearted banter. Whether you're an NBA enthusiast or new to the league, the discussion offers valuable perspectives on team building and the factors influencing player selections.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This is Bill Simmons, and I want to tell you about my movie podcast, the Rewatchables, where each week I'm joined by ringer movie lovers Chris Ryan, Sean Vanity, Van Lathan, Kyle Brandt, Mallory Rubin. We have a whole bunch of people on. We talk about movies we can't stop rewatching. And now you can watch us cover these movies on video in the Spotify app. We have covered over 350 movies, including Heat, Goodfellas, Boogie Nights, Pulp Fiction. We have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025. Make sure to follow us on Spotify, where you can watch every new episode right now. Just head to the rewatch on Spotify now on video.

[Justin Barrier]

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier, and joining me as always, Rob Mahoney. Big wise and back on the pod after a couple months away, our friend, your friend, J. Kyle Mann. Hi, Kyle.

[Kyle Mann]

I get to speak first. This is nice. It's good to be here. Should I just rally off? Just if I have any kind of points of business that I have at the top of the show here or.

[Justin Barrier]

Whatever you want, man.

[Kyle Mann]

Okay. Grocery store. I defer to you.

[Justin Barrier]

I defer to you.

[Kyle Mann]

You're the master.

[Justin Barrier]

Severance talk. Whatever you want to get into, we're here for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Severance talk.

[Kyle Mann]

I'm good. I'm good.

[Justin Barrier]

How's everybody else doing? You know, been a week since I've seen you guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you miss me at all?

[Kyle Mann]

We did.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that's a question for you, though. We were just punching the clock. Business as usual. Where the hell have you been?

[Justin Barrier]

Well, first of all, you guys were also at All Star Weekend together, so I'm sure at the very least got up to some activations together. Or did you guys ever. Did you meet up at all in San Fran?

[Chris Ryan]

I literally didn't see was Rob was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unable to meet up. Met up with Howard, Ben Cruz, Michael Pina, and Keith. We had Aries.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

We had a nice little dinner. Ben Cruz and I went to the unveiling of Shay Gilgeous Alexander's first ever signature shoe with Converse. I thought that was a pretty cool event.

[Kyle Mann]

How do you feel about the shoe, Wise?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I like the shoe. I like the shoe. It's very Iverson4 inspired. He actually talked about being an Iverson guy, which I thought was weird because Iverson was pretty much washed up by 2009, but whatever, you know, Shay must have did his Googles and did his YouTubes, but I liked the shoe, thought the event was cool. They gave us all custom Chuck Taylors with the Shay insignia on it, which I thought was dope. I'll be wearing those soon to Ruby Tuesdays near you. And so. Yeah, man.

[Kyle Mann]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a good weekend.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, I was, I was out in the desert. Took a little me time, you know, just went under the stars. It was nice to see sunshine yet again, I gotta say. Like, I have missed the healing properties of the sun out here in the Pacific Northwest and just have it kind of douse me was kind of nice. Although it did downpour in LA the first night I was there. And then the wind was so furious it disrupted my hiking. But, you know, other than that, good times were had. Kyle, how was your All Star weekend?

[Kyle Mann]

I mean, I'm not going to act like I immerse myself in the events. I actually weirdly watched most of the celebrity game. I don't know why I would do that to myself, but I kind of followed the highlights from there. You know, I had a lot of stuff going on.

[Chris Ryan]

You do the deep scouting, I'll say that. Like, you really do the work. You crunch the tape. Any standouts from the Celebrity game that you want to point out for us today?

[Kyle Mann]

No, not, I mean, I mean, Terrell Owens, I thought he was in the game, right. He kind of seemed like he was, you know, maybe lost a step a little bit. I don't know. There were just. Well, I did see Drew Ski was wearing the book one Halloween, which I have. That caught my attention. Okay. Other than that, you know, Barry Bonds was there. I'm trying to think. These are all really, you know, high level thoughts I have about the game. I'm kind of leaning toward, I'm not trying to launch into the, the, the discussion that everybody has, but I'm kind of at the point where I'm like, it doesn't do anything for me at all. So I'm like, should we just get rid of it completely or just, you know, start from scratch? Because I just don't get anything out of it. I was way more excited about SNL50 and the college slate on Saturday. It was just, it was hard for me to get motivated to watch it at all.

[Justin Barrier]

I think that's the problem. I think all of us probably watch SNL50, but not much of the All Star weekend, so. But we are going to leverage Kyle's scouting background today because we're going to get into a little bit of an expansion draft based on some of the stuff they're [e-mail] this week. It's Expansion week. A couple of articles up there, guys like Howard beck, Michael Pina, etc. So go check that out. We're going to draft some, some of the guys based on Pina's protections of guys in for the expansion draft. So we'll get into that a little bit later. But right before we came on kind of some sobering news. Victor Webanyama out for the remainder of the season with a blood clot issue in his shoulder. Pretty concerning. We should mention that this has been sort of a thing over the past 10 to 12 years. We've had some cases of this. Chris Bosh, unfortunately his career was shut down based on recurring issues with blood clots. We have seen some guys more recently come back from this. Asar Thompson, most recently with Detroit Pistons. Christian Coloco, now with the Lakers, has as well. Brandon Ingram ways back. Rob, what's just your overall thoughts to this pretty sobering news?

[Chris Ryan]

I mean it's a pretty terrifying revelation about a 21 year old guy who is as big as Victor Wembanyama. Like these are the players you worry about, these sorts of health complications arising, not just injuries, but things like blood clots. And it's scary. Like all of these guys that you listed, there have been cases of players coming back and being more or less normal, going on to have productive careers, all of that. But the clearance process is usually pretty intense because this is a very serious health risk that if unchecked can lead to some really dire complications. And so it's on the one hand great that the proactive screening revealed this in the first place. But scary news about one of the growing like up and coming luminaries of the game.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I just actually before we hopped on, I was finishing up quarter gold on Netflix, which is about the Olympic basketball journeys of France, Serbia, Team USA and Canada. And you know, I just finished watching that gold medal game and Steve Kerr is like, we knew Wemby was going to have a big game and he was incredible to be that young and to be playing against those guys in that moment on that stage. And for him to come through like that for his team, even in a loss, you know, it was just kind of a reminder for me like, damn, this kid is going to do a lot of amazing things. And then, you know, you hear the guys out for the season. Me, I'm not like, I don't know, I assumed it was gonna be like, oh, he's got a foot, he's got a knee, he's got a torn pectoral, he's got, I Don't know, something that people.

[Chris Ryan]

And there was some reporting that there was a shoulder, oblique, kind like something upper body issue, but I don't think anyone was anticipating blood clot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right. And these are things guys come back from. And then you guys tell me it's blood clots in the sort of pre production. And I immediately think of Chris Bosh, who's one of my favorite players ever, honestly, and his career got cut short by this. And I was like, damn, is it possible that we, you know, never see Wemby again? And hopefully that's not the case because if it was just a major, major, major bummer.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, it's, it's startling that that could even be on the. To just have that thought enter your mind that like, that is a potential possibility. And like you guys were talking about when he came into the league. I think we always knew that. And I wrote about this, I remember in my like, rookie summation of his, just looking at where. What he did and where he might go, and you just get this overwhelming, whelming feeling of like, please, God, to stay healthy. But your mind goes to structural things like you were saying, like, please, God, let his feet hold up. Don't. You know, hopefully he doesn't have any kind of like joint issue or anything like that. You, you don't go to something like this. And those are all kind of things that would just hamper your ability to, you know, stay as athletically. But this is one of the things that can. Other than like serious, like terminal kind of malady stuff, this is like a potentially very, very serious health issue that goes beyond basketball. But it's, it is, it is tough because, you know, Wimby, like, was like what you were talking about with Wimby. I mean, he's, it doesn't, you know, necessarily need to be said again, but I will say it, that like, he's, he's special on the court in his skills, but also just you're, you're. You hit it where he's, he's this interesting combination of like Ralph Sampson meets Kevin Durant, mentally meets Kareem in terms of his sort of brood, intellect and things like that. But then he also has that incredible motherfucker competitiveness. It would really, really stink, you know, if we, if we lose him selfishly as basketball fans. But beyond that, you just hope that he can just get healthy and be a healthy human being, period, you know, so that we can get to see him play basketball.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Justin Barrier]

Timing obviously super unfortunate as well. Just in general, this is awful, but like, it seems like he was rearing in the spurs with Deer and Fox for rearing to really make this second half or however many games we have left here. Kind of a pretty interesting little case study of Wemby on the rise, right? Seems like the entire league is behind Wemby being a guy, being a future face of the league or whatever you want to say. They're pretty deep there now in the plane race in the west, so you assume this is more of a. Just a prelude to what will ever happen going forward. But obviously the bigger concern is just Wemby in general, getting him back on the court, and hopefully we'll see him next season at the start of next season. So we wish him the best, and the spurs as well. Although, I mean, I guess if we're. We're talking about all the different possibilities here, you know, there's a David Robinson possibility here where he misses the second half of the season. All of a sudden, they locked their way into a high draft pick. Maybe they're better off for it. But we'll see there. There's.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also the part of this where, again, the primary concern is Victor wealth. I don't want to be alarmist about it, given how little we know so far, but let's wait and see. Kind of what his state is and what his recovery looks like and what his return to the court ends up being in. For our purposes as people on a podcast talking about the NBA, it's basically been a foregone conclusion all year that Victor Wembanyama is going to be the defensive player of the year, for example. And now I think that race is completely shaken up. Again, not of consequence relative to whether Victor Wembanyama is healthy or not. But there's a lot of different conversations that open up now as a result of one of the stars of the league suddenly having to exit the stage in the middle of a really triumphant season for him.

[Justin Barrier]

All right, should we get to the expansion draft now? So, as I mentioned, Michael Pena went through the exercise of protecting every team's top eight players, so he picked eight players who were not eligible to be selected in this expansion draft. The timing of it is a little weird where free agents are not eligible to be protected or be picked by us. And so guys like LeBron, guys like Kyrie Irving, who hold player options for this summer fall into this weird, nebulous black hole. Kind of like Ozzy Smith in that Simpsons episode where we just can't touch them on either side of.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Barrier]

So it Leaves a pretty shallow pool of, of deep cut players for which we will be drafting from the teams are as follows. Rob and was our team Vegas? I mean, naturally. Do you guys actually, do you guys have a name for your new Vegas franchise? Have you thought about that at all?

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think was?

[Rob Mahoney]

Did not think about it. Oh, my God. And I might have said this on the show before, but one of my Uber drivers during summer league was like, we're going to get a team. And one of the names that were thrown about were the Black Jacks, but you know, the Wokies won't let us have it. That's what he said to me. Literally, literally said that. But I like the Black Jacks being black, you know.

[Justin Barrier]

Good news. The Wokies.

[Chris Ryan]

The Wokies can't touch us here. Was not the rules.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not in 2025, baby.

[Kyle Mann]

Let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

Blackjacks it is. I have no argument.

[Justin Barrier]

All right. The Vegas Blackjacks are on the clock. Kyle and I are the other team. We are Team Seattle for, for obvious reasons. Kyle repping the Seattle Sonics shirt. I have, I have Sean Kemp in the background there.

[Chris Ryan]

You got a flannel on Situation.

[Justin Barrier]

Also wearing a flannel. Also have beards. This is a pretty easy choice for all of us. So we're the Sonic Starbucks.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah. Before we get going, I just want to shout out Quinton Post for getting protected in this exercise. Good for him. He was a guy that during the draft process last year, we would just be like, yeah, I like Quentin Post because there was nothing to lose by saying it. But it turns out, hey, he actually has stuck. I just want to, I just enjoyed that. I also enjoy seeing Pena's sort of basketball values being reflected through this. I was like, he hates this person. Likes this person. That was a fun little sub wrinkle of this for me.

[Chris Ryan]

Salute to our guy, Michael Pina, who has, Justin said, made all these protections throughout this entire process. I enjoyed reading his article on it and yeah, I enjoyed seeing into Mike's soul a little bit. And I, I, I look forward to further exploring it in terms of what's left in this pile.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah. All right. Any other ground rules we need to cover here? I think I, I got all of them, but any wrinkles? Anything else you guys want to bring up or should we just get to drafting here?

[Chris Ryan]

I think the only wrinkle I saw based on the actual expansion rules is that technically you can select someone who is a restricted free agent, but in doing so, you don't actually get their Restricted rights. It just turns them into an unrestricted free agent, which is a weird rule. At least that was the case in our last expansion draft with the Charlotte Bobcats. So if someone.

[Kyle Mann]

Wait.

[Chris Ryan]

If they have no years left under contract, I would not recommend drafting them.

[Kyle Mann]

Are you all trying to pull the chicanery that you pulled in Indianapolis where Demonis Sabonis became a Caucasian two minutes before the draft? And you all made an absolute fool of me. You're not pulling this shit again.

[Chris Ryan]

Those were Wise's rules. That was the was draft. I have no jurisdiction in that area. I'm just here to tell you what the NBA decided in whatever that was.

[Rob Mahoney]

2004, despite the climate of the country. If you went to high school in America and you're white, you're a white American. I will defend Damona Sabonis being in the white American draft until.

[Kyle Mann]

Purely just saying the shade you are is what? Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

From your lips to the Supreme Court's ears. Was.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's it, baby. That's it.

[Justin Barrier]

We need to figure out who's drafting first, which we haven't settled yet. We haven't settled the order. Isaiah, would you like to maybe like, flip a coin? Like a. Is there like a generator online where you could just click a button and. And figure this out?

[Kyle Mann]

We can definitely. A generator.

[Justin Barrier]

Jv Pick a number. One or two. Two. Yep, that's it. You guys got first pick. Yeah. First psychology there. All right, so Kyle, as my co GM here, we went a little back and forth. There are, I would say, four guys who are in the running here, and most of them are younger guys who are basically lottery polls one or two years after they were actually drafted. Kyle was making the case for an older player. But the restriction. We should make a point. This is going to be very difficult because we're basically talking about who we might draft not just now, but later in front of the other team. So we're just going to go for it. And hopefully guy code will play a factor here.

[Chris Ryan]

You can just tell us if you want, who you're going to draft later.

[Justin Barrier]

Difficult part, Kyle? I. I think. I think we should stick to the board. I. I think not go with the older player. I think we go with the guy that we think will. Will have the brightest future for. What do you think about that?

[Kyle Mann]

Well, I mean, I'll go with you just to be agreeable. I don't. I. I wouldn't do that just because I think three one. I just. I think two through four is a little flatter. And I feel like I. If I get one of two through four, I'll be fine. But I think four, which is where this person is. I want to take him first, but I'll go with you if that's what you want to do.

[Justin Barrier]

I want to, I want to believe in my scouts. I want to trust the, the process here. So why don't, why don't we go. First pick of the expansion draft, the Seattle Supersonic select, Santi Aldama from Memphis Grizzlies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, baby.

[Chris Ryan]

I believe Santiago Dama is exactly the kind of player I was just talking about.

[Justin Barrier]

That's right. So we will have to immediately sign him to an extension or on an.

[Chris Ryan]

On the open market.

[Justin Barrier]

On the open market, but you know, he has.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't have money. I get it.

[Kyle Mann]

It's fine.

[Justin Barrier]

We'll have a ton of money. He'll feel good about being our first pick and ostensibly the. The face of the franchise in Seattle. More importantly though, we take him away from Rob, who has been the biggest Aldama fan far none in the world.

[Kyle Mann]

I predate you. I. I know you tease me for being a hipster, Rob. I watched a lot of Loyola Maryland games, a lot of FIBA with, you know, you, you've 18, 19, whatever. Been a long time. Aldama, hipster. He's going to, he's going to interface well with whatever we choose to do, which is to try to get Darren Peterson next year. That's kind of our plan. Or Debonsa, whichever one. But I just think I like Aldama a lot. I called him Modern Kuko, which I just think he, he adds a lot of stuff. Great. Do I have to defend every pick? Am I doing. Am I just being long winded for no reason here?

[Justin Barrier]

We might have to actually explain who these players are to the audience because these are deep cuts for even like hardcore NBA fans. But no, Aldama is probably amongst the younger group of players, probably one of the more well known ones just because he's had a really good season for the Grizzlies, could probably come off the bench for like a championship contending team. So I like the flexibility there, but I think he's more of like that Lamar Odom type where he could flex starter, reserve based on whatever you got going on there. So flexibility, youth, upside.

[Chris Ryan]

I like the pick there definitely. And this is where I revealed to you that perhaps my Santi Aldama Standom was maybe a long con because he's not even on our draft board for the aforementioned free agent reasons. I am so terrified of being an expansion team in open bidding for Santel Dama services, when, as you said, he would be so attractive to so many winning teams. I'm not confident that we can keep him under those circumstances. Was I.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, he was on my big board. Rob was like, look, if the guy can walk of his own volition afterwards, we probably want to prioritize player control here. And so, you know, I was like, whatever, get him out of here. But I think in real life, like, is he getting. Is he getting more than the full, like, mid level from somebody on the open market when the Nets are the only team he could with cap space?

[Justin Barrier]

No one also has cap space. That's what we're saying this coming summer. It's like Brooklyn and Owen.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's mid level money at best, which I think he's more than worth that, honestly.

[Chris Ryan]

So I think so too. And to be in a broader agreement, just one of the better players, especially relative to age in this pool, period. So I. I'm on board with the broader Santa El Dama experience, the bets.

[Kyle Mann]

At the top of the draft. I just feel like I would feel worse if you all made a bet and then you got Elma. I. Because I just wanted to go ahead and snag him. That was my thinking. And I just think, you know, I just think he's going to fit with whatever we choose to do, baby.

[Justin Barrier]

But did you war room?

[Kyle Mann]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, if somebody like, becomes obsessed with Al Dharma, they could, like, work the sign in, trade, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, well, this makes it very easy for us, was. Because I think we had the same guy at the top of both of our boards.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

With the second pick in the expansion draft, the Las Vegas Blackjacks will select Cam Whitmore from the Houston Rockets.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is number one on my board.

[Kyle Mann]

You can't dribble or pass, but that's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not worried about the dribbling or passing. So much, to me was. I don't know how you thought about this. For me, it was like, if you look at the history of these kinds of drafts, like, look at what the Bobcats did, for example. It's a lot of role players. It's a lot of guys who have been kind of forgotten in the league. And then there is one player of relevance, and that's Gerald Wallace. And if I'm thinking about who could be the Gerald Wallace of an expansion draft, Cam Whitmore has the profile of a big wing who can score, who can theoretically do lots of things, who could be A versatile tool that could be a part of your franchise for a long time.

[Rob Mahoney]

To me, the reason why he's not popping in Houston is because, like, the freaking back court is very overcrowded and on an expansion team, that won't be a problem. So, you know, he will get to develop in the way that I think some of us were excited about, especially when we saw him last summer league. Like, he looked like a man amongst boys. And I get it. That's one of his strengths. It's like his physicality and his athleticism. But I think he needs the reps in order to become the guy he's going to become. And yeah, the new age Black Jacks, we're going to give him all. And plus, again, you know, summer league was in Vegas. Maybe there's something to being in Vegas that makes this guy reach his full potential if not playing against nothing but G leaguers.

[Justin Barrier]

So we definitely had Whitmore on our board. I think I had him second overall before Kyle pulled the Aldama trick here. I'm curious though, like, what is Whitmore's ceiling in. In the league? Is he ultimately a guy we think could even be a starter or is he coming up? Kyle, you've. You've done a lot of draft prep over the years. Like, where do you see Whitmore?

[Kyle Mann]

Do you remember the sort of forensic findings from when we were writing about Whitmore last year? Justin, do you remember my conclusion? I came. I was like, his development, his tools, all his, his body type, he is, note for note, so similar to Jaylen Brown. It is absurd. They are built exactly alike. He's. He's an even more explosive athlete. I think I'm teasing. I just don't. I mean, it kind of depends on what your mindset going in. Are you drafting this person, thinking this guy is our. To use my draft writing kind of vernacular here, a roadmap? Is he somebody that's going to be like, we'll build around him? Maybe not necessarily, because I don't know if like the passing and the handling is ever going to be there. I don't know if he's ever going to be more than a Jalen archetype, but he's a. He's a good player. I'm teasing, but yeah, I mean, that's kind of where I think he. There is a potential for that.

[Justin Barrier]

Right?

[Kyle Mann]

I think he's that type of player at dealing with the reps, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like Houston, if they were a normal team on a normal development curve, then he'd probably Be playing more. But these guys shot up to third in the freaking Western Conference.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm sorry. You can't just be giving away minutes to young guys for development. You have to be contributing right now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think on a team that has less lofty goals, he could do that.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the Las Vegas Blackjacks. We are going to. We're going to be bad, but we're going to let Gwenmore dribble the ball until he figures out how to dribble.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going to give him an apron, let him cook.

[Justin Barrier]

So one of the cases Kyle made for drafting Aldama first was that we thought by doing that, our guy at number one might still be there. When it came back around in the draft order, he proved correct. Because with the number three overall pick in the 2025 NBA Expansion Draft, the Seattle SuperSonics select Nicola Topic. I knew it from the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Chris Ryan]

This was coming.

[Kyle Mann]

The number 12 skills in the field. We're just swimming in it over here. I'm just backpedaling in the field and the. Oh, it's great. We're going to be a. We're going to be a fun team right out of the. Right out of the box.

[Justin Barrier]

So the number 12 overall pick in this most recent draft hasn't played a lick of basketball professionally yet. He's basically been on ice because he was hurt before the draft. And so we basically get a free lottery pick. You know, like, I believe in expansion.

[Rob Mahoney]

Situations and like the new teams and like the rest of the media. You want to glaze Sam Presti. No problem.

[Chris Ryan]

The man drafts pretty well.

[Justin Barrier]

I think half of our. Each of our teams is going to ultimately be Thunder players.

[Chris Ryan]

Very possible.

[Justin Barrier]

I think it's going to be unavoidable.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's going to be a decent amount of.

[Justin Barrier]

But Kyle, I know going into last year's draft there was talk about him potentially being like a top three to five talent. He slid to 12 because of the fact that he was hurt. Do you. What do you see from him in the NBA next season when he's starting at point guard for the Seattle Sonics?

[Kyle Mann]

Conversations I had kind of revealed that OKC had all of their guys. I mean, Jones, Mitchell, Topich, like had they. They had them much higher than consensus. I know they had Topic Topic towards acl, as we know, and sort of that sort of threw a wrench in people's security about him. The big thing for him is that great size, great spatial feel he makes. Reads really comfortably easily. Like he's One of these just prototypical pick and roll ball screen operator whiz guys. So I feel really comfortable about him even if he doesn't develop into a primary, being somebody that we can put on the floor and he's going to move the ball for us. So I love, like I said, and we're going to be bad. I expect to be bad. And we're going to be making a star play and he'll be on timeline that because he's still only 19 years old, the shooting's the only question with him. So. But I, but I feel okay. I feel good about it. I think we can get him in mid-30s. Can we have Chip England? Can we throw him at all into the draft? Because I'd like to. I'd just like to inquire about what he's up to so that we can feel a little better.

[Chris Ryan]

Chip might take another pick just to. To lock up his services. So if you want to use it in that direction, we can negotiate. But look, he was, he was high on our board too. I think this is a natural. Like, if you want to take a gamble on a prospect, why would you not take a gamble on someone like Nikola Tobic? Like, that makes all the sense in the world. The funky driving game, the feel, the playmaking. There's a lot to like there. And I, I kind of want to wait and see with the jumper, Kyle, just because his mechanics are a little funky, he is a little like stiff in a way that concerns me. For a prospect coming in that could theoretically be handling the ball a lot. I wonder if his ultimate like fate might be as more of an off ball facilitator, second side type than it is someone who's actually driving offense, which even that would be perfectly fine.

[Kyle Mann]

Very possible.

[Justin Barrier]

We're also setting up a little bit of a European pipeline with, with topic and then Aldama, you know, Seattle, a big hub for. For Europe. So we're tapping into that market in the same way the Dodgers are tapping into Tokyo. So we have the extra revenue streams. We're thinking big picture here. The business section of our organization is working here as well.

[Chris Ryan]

By the way, how many players are we selecting in this draft? We never really ironed that out.

[Kyle Mann]

That would have been a good question.

[Justin Barrier]

I think we'll just go until we don't even know who these guys are.

[Chris Ryan]

You just want to go until we stop.

[Justin Barrier]

I think like, I don't know, five, five to eight. We'll see how.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Okay. I was, I was thinking I was going full squad over Here, I'm ready to roll.

[Justin Barrier]

Well, we also have free agency theoretically in this setup, so we wouldn't have to fill every spot. And draft picks, which I was going to mention before, I think the way the expansion draft or expansion teams work in their first draft is they don't get the top picks, but they get somewhere near the top do that. I don't know. The Bobcats worked.

[Rob Mahoney]

When the. When the Grizzlies and. And, and Raptors were first expansion teams, they were like, banned from having the number one pick for like a few years. I don't know if it was top three, but definitely number one I knew they weren't allowed to have for a few years. I don't think that's the case any. I. Why would that even make any sense, especially with the lottery odds being what they are now?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, well, part of the flaw in the design of this process is that there is a significant voice within the league to actually change the expansion rules before there actually is an expansion draft and before new teams like Seattle and Vegas are actually brought in. Because these are ancient rules that reflect a different NBA. And so we're operating with the ones that are established, but they could change.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you guys trust Adam Silver and the purveyors of the Second Apron and all this other crap to actually get this right?

[Justin Barrier]

No. Well, so here's the thing. The motivation for putting the new teams lower in the order isn't going to change because a lot of these franchises spent years, if not just the most recent season tanking in order to get that number one pick. So they're not going to cough that up. And we should mention the reason why expansion is happening to begin with is all 30 of these teams want to pocket the fees that all of these teams are going to pay in the high billions in order to do so. So, like, I don't think they're going to roll out the red carpet for these new owners and new teams.

[Rob Mahoney]

One thing I do have one. A lot of people who was their first All Star Game felt like it was sort of like a church crowd. And I saw one of my buddies who does not work in the NBA at the airport flying back to la. I was like, what were you doing here? He was like, my company and I, we took clients to the NBA All Star Game. I said, how much did Those tickets cost? $5,000 per ticket. To sit nine rows up at a glorified exit. $5,000, y'all. That is unconscionable. Dude who, like, who's supposed to actually Be at this game. Like, how is this atmosphere supposed to be good if it's just corporate sponsors and, you know, basically companies courting their freaking clients and not people who actually give a shit about our league? Like, this is fucking insane, dude. Insane. A freaking Modelo in there was $20. One Modelo. That's. It's just fucking gross. I'm sorry.

[Chris Ryan]

It is gross.

[Rob Mahoney]

Get off my soapbox. And I realize I'm a fucking caricature with my Bernie hat on right now, but it's freaking disgusting. I'm sorry. It's gross. There's no reason for this shit. You guys make enough money, bro.

[Chris Ryan]

This is why we need to do the expansion draft as an in person attendable event a la the NBA draft, so that the real sickos in attendance can have a standing ovation when Nikola Topic gets pulled off the board.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, like more than $10 for our expansion draft. Absolutely. We have selected three players, all of whom are bench players at best right now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, by the way. So in 2004, the Bobcats were assigned the fourth pick in the draft. They did not participate in the lottery at all. And then they treated up to the second pick, which as we know, they used to select the Mecha Okafort Bobcats legend.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, as we know, I mean.

[Chris Ryan]

Worked out for them, relatively speaking, but a Mecca Okafor is not Dwight Howard.

[Justin Barrier]

It turns out I definitely was an Okafor over Howard guy going into that draft.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh yeah, that was a conversation.

[Kyle Mann]

Remember that?

[Justin Barrier]

That was like a conversation. Yeah. Awesome.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, did he win two championships in college?

[Justin Barrier]

Like, but he was player of the year. He was like an awesome guy. That like culture guy you immediately want in your locker room.

[Chris Ryan]

Totally.

[Justin Barrier]

Definitely did not have Dwight Howard's career. He did not. Do you guys want to go with your next pick? I believe the fourth pick in the draft was.

[Chris Ryan]

Who are you thinking here? Like, we have.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm fine with going chalk here because. Because we got to get spicy.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the thing. I feel like the next guy we have on our board is going to be there for us. And I wonder if another young guy who we had on our mut we should highlight here.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're right. You're right, you're right.

[Chris Ryan]

So for. For our second pick.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're right.

[Chris Ryan]

The Las Vegas Black Jacks was like Gigi Jackson of the Memphis Grizzlies.

[Kyle Mann]

Figured.

[Rob Mahoney]

Figured he was. That was a neon signs for me that Gigi Jackson was available because since he's been back, man, he's just a beautiful fill in the Blank kind of player doesn't need to handle the rock, but like, when they ask him to do stuff with the ball in his hands, he's capable. I'm not saying he's like J Dub or anything like that. We're not getting crazy here. But he's more than capable of putting the ball on the floor and making something happen. And the jumper looks smooth. Kyle. I don't know if you've seen him since he's come back. I like the stroke.

[Kyle Mann]

Aiming that at me for it.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'm just telling you.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just telling you.

[Kyle Mann]

I wasn't smiling in any kind of like making fun of you behind these eyes kind of way. It was. I was just. I was just listening to you. I don't have. He's. Yeah, he's improved a lot. And it's just kind of. It's been an interesting path for him because as everybody knows, he entered college probably a little early. He was pushed in, I think, a little early. And he's just been kind of a step ahead of what he's quite ready for. And we've just kind of seen it start to stabilize. And I think what you're talking about is true. He's. He's. He's somebody that can offer a lot of different things.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's still very young, dude.

[Justin Barrier]

So my understanding, Kyle, is he was the best prospect going into college two years ago. Is that correct?

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, he was. It just flipped really quickly. I mean, he was going to go to North Carolina and that he would have been on a pretty good team. And then he ended up being on a bad South Carolina team as a freshman and it was just a disaster. And it pushed him down in the draft. And then you saw the Grizzlies get him. Understandably, he and Whitmore both interesting kind of value plays later in the first round. And yeah, I mean, it was. It was just kind of like found money for the Grizz. No brainer to take a talent like that. Always, always bet on those guys.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, I like the pick. I might have picked him myself if we were up here at number five. A lot of talent there. Still young on a cost controlled contract. So lots of like there with Jackson. That's a good pick. All right, next one is a little more difficult here because I think this is where for us, at the very least, the draft breaks between, if you want to still keep going young and cost controlled versus maybe some more veteran players who could help now but might not be there when we're ready to be good Two to three years down the road. Kyle, I think. I think we. Go ahead.

[Chris Ryan]

The oldest player we've selected so far is 24 years old. Right. Like, we're. We're still going very young to this point, sir.

[Justin Barrier]

Kyle, I think we go down the same path. We. We set out a plan to. To let the spirit of Sonic, Sam Presti, kind of guide us through this process. And I think for that reason, I think we have to go with the guy number eight on our board. What do you think? Or, excuse me, number five on our board.

[Kyle Mann]

Oh, let me see. My numbers got jumbled here. Yes. Yes. That's kind of what I always. Well, no. Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of dissension within the ranks. And by the ranks, I mean inside Kyle's mind.

[Kyle Mann]

No, look, all right, I did that thing where I'm making a spreadsheet and I did the auto populate to make it go all the way to 30, but then I moved the numbers around so my fifth line says 7, and it's like, all off.

[Justin Barrier]

Yes. The difference between Kyle and mine's draft board, because we did individual docs and basically shared them. Mine is just a Google Doc with a list of guys, some of whom weren't even available because I misunderstood the rules. And then Kyle's is a spreadsheet with color coding, separate columns for the different types of players. I'm not talking about positions. I'm talking about. The first columns are primary defensive anchors, energy, bigs, and then we also have switch bits in here. It's incredibly intense. It's a real like. It crystallizes the difference between our approaches.

[Kyle Mann]

I think they're called archetypes, Justin. Maybe you should become familiar with them.

[Chris Ryan]

The diligence is incredible. I thought. I think it may overstate slightly the depth of this pool. Where. Well, honestly, we are scrambling for viable NBA talent you would actually want to have on your roster and not so much like, can we build a coherent lineup?

[Kyle Mann]

Well, you said it's. You said a pile earlier, and I was just like, well, a pile can be many different things. You know, a pile of diamonds is awesome. Is it a pile of poop? Is it.

[Justin Barrier]

You said pool.

[Kyle Mann]

Is it a pool of water coming in and out? Or is it one of those standing pools in the woods that you don't want your dog to drink from because it might have blue algae in it? I don't know. We're kind of. That's what we're figuring out here. So have you all made a pick?

[Justin Barrier]

Hey. Taking her. Taking her. Five minutes on the clock. Yeah. All right. So with the number five pick in the expansion draft, the Seattle supersonic select back into the OKC pool, we're going. AJ Mitchell, second round pick for the Thunder last year, showed a lot of promise earlier this season. Unfortunately he's out right now with a toe injury. But a 3 and D type can handle a little bit. I, I think he's just a classic Thunder developmental guy. Cheap guy as we mentioned before, cost controlled. So all those things combined. I, I think we like the pick. He fits our vision for the future. We would say.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love taking this Thunders sonic pressy thing pretty far. But okay, Cookie Mitchell's good.

[Chris Ryan]

But yeah, that's, that's pretty high for A.J. mitchell.

[Kyle Mann]

It is. I, I kind of, I was teetering towards another person. Hopefully he'll still be there to address sort of the needs that we have. But it is a little and frankly a little nauseating to go on Basketball Reference and see OKC Thunder best players in history. Gary Payton. I just. We gotta. I can't do this anymore. Like we got. It's time. It's time to separate them. That's my, that's my.

[Rob Mahoney]

And especially. It's especially disrespectful the way they freaking stole the damn team.

[Kyle Mann]

Exactly.

[Justin Barrier]

Gross. We're taking it back one deep role player at a time. All right, you guys are on the clock now.

[Chris Ryan]

All right. Was. I mean, I think with our next two guys on the board we have polar opposites. A steady, predictable role player type and a. Who the fuck knows, wild card element. I'm going to defer to you. Which way you want to go with this one?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you know, I'm having a pool party, baby. Jordan, pool.

[Justin Barrier]

Come on down.

[Chris Ryan]

We're taking. Jordan, pool.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jordan, pool. Come on down. He's had enough distance from the punch. He's rehabilitated his image and I think he's kind of the best actual NBA player today on this whole board.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right now on February 20th, Brad, I'm.

[Chris Ryan]

Going to say spoiler alert. We will not be selecting Brad Beal.

[Rob Mahoney]

But he's on the board. You're right. Brad Beal might be. Brad Bill is probably a little bit better than Jordan Poole. Yes, that's fair.

[Chris Ryan]

But like with a lot of these other younger prospects, you're picking them in the hopes that they one day become as good as Jordan Poole is right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

25.

[Chris Ryan]

Still 25.

[Justin Barrier]

Good this year. And the.

[Chris Ryan]

Look, the contract isn't good. But I also don't expect us to be free agent players. And the rest of our roster is going to be pretty cheap. I'm not worried about it. So bring on Jordan Poole. Invite us to the pool party.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, he has been surprisingly good this year within the context of, of Jordan Pooleness. But the contract for me was, was a little bit of a stopping point. Two years, 66 million. So you're paying them over 30 a year for the next two years like.

[Rob Mahoney]

You mentioned or Justin.

[Justin Barrier]

That's right. But as we'll see here, some of these like mid tier contracts could pile up, especially if you guys vision yourself as wanting to go out and making a play. I don't know Kyrie Irving in free agency if that's a possibility. But I like pool as a player. I think he's a little underrated at this point. As crazy as that is the same to me.

[Chris Ryan]

He is the, of the, of the veteran core that's available. I mean to the extent that he is a veteran, he's still a young player. But of the established players, I think just one of the more proven productive of anybody in the pool. And so we're, we're happy to have him on our team. Will anyone on our team pass? Who knows?

[Rob Mahoney]

Time will tell.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, you're. I can kind of see where your all's needs are going to end up down the road.

[Justin Barrier]

But so before that most recent pick where we took Mitchell, unfortunately Kyle had technically texted me to draft another guy and I completely missed it. So luckily he's still on the board for us.

[Kyle Mann]

Our, our organization is just a shit show right now. I was going to say this got dark so quickly that you guys were legitimately stewing over like Brad Beal or Jordan pool.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, no, no, Brad, we were not stewing.

[Kyle Mann]

Not you all just. Justin had a real beat where he was like, you know what? Bradley Beal is a little better than Jordan Pool. I was like, wow, these are the stakes.

[Chris Ryan]

So welcome to group Jack. Kyle, man.

[Justin Barrier]

But Kyle, I think we should go with the guy that you suggested we take and we're just, we're thrilled that he's still on the board at. What is this, number seven?

[Kyle Mann]

Yes. We're going to take Jonathan Mogbo. He is a connector. He's, he's a switchable defender. I think he's going to cover the needs that we have. We have ball movers. I think he'll shoot it eventually. I'm not worried about that. Jordan. Jonathan Mogbo is who I'm taking. Rob, go ahead, react. Say what you're going to say.

[Chris Ryan]

I would, I Would say he's like second, if not third among the potential Raptors that I would draft in this pool. So not high on my board, to say the least. I, with all due respect, do not understand this pick.

[Kyle Mann]

Okay, that's fine.

[Justin Barrier]

Listen, our scouts loved him, so we just had to go with the will of the room. Do I have to contribute about Jonathan Mogbo? No, I do not. But we're just happy to have him on the team. Good culture guy.

[Kyle Mann]

Great defensive hands. He's switchy. He's, he's. I'm, I'm feel good about it. He's 23. You know, he's a little. Okay. I'm not gonna act like he's a spring chicken, but he's, he's, he addresses a need for us. We need some defense. We can't have Aldama and Topic out there trying to protect.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's, he's AD to Kyle's Nico Harrison. That's all. That's all that is.

[Chris Ryan]

They identified the one guy that they had to have and it was Jonathan.

[Justin Barrier]

All right, you guys are up at number eight.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel pretty good about our next guy up was. How do you feel about that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, lock them in.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we're, we're going to take Ben Shepard of the Indiana Pacers and we're going to say we got two years under contract with Ben Shepard, plus his restricted free agency, potentially five or six years of just like a solid three and D wing that we cancel into our line.

[Rob Mahoney]

Dribble the ball. Nor can he, but can knock down.

[Chris Ryan]

Threes, can knock down threes, can guard, puts in good effort, understand spacing like we're going to have some wild cards clearly with the rest of our lineup so far. And so let's have the one guy who just knows his role, who can do his job, who's going to show up and is already a playoff caliber rotation guy for a team of some actual relevance.

[Kyle Mann]

I wanted him. I wanted him. That was, that was going to be, he was going to be a nice thing to sprinkle over the guys that we have. And it was going to get a lot of open shots. This is the first time I felt a little bitter so far in the draft. I haven't felt bitter about my own bad decisions yet in life. So we made it this far.

[Justin Barrier]

But on that note, we're gonna, we're gonna stick to our basic ideology here. We're gonna keep pulling from the young player pile.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just guys who can't play yet. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Guys who are on the Thunder roster.

[Justin Barrier]

No this guy's not on the Thunder roster.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Justin Barrier]

But he is. But he's coming to Seattle. He's from the Golden State Warriors. We're gonna take him at. What is this, number nine. It's Trace Jackson Davis. So, big man, we don't have one of those yet. Obviously fits the young, cheap guys that we've been basically only drafting thus far. Feeling good about him, Kyle, what do you think about Trace?

[Kyle Mann]

Lob threat, high post, handoff passer. You know what he can guard up and down the scale. Good athlete. I think he fits what we need here.

[Rob Mahoney]

We were high on him, too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Like Trace Jackson Davis. Does it concern you at all that sometimes Steve Kerr doesn't appear to like Trace Jackson Davis all that much? Or at least trust him all that much?

[Rob Mahoney]

Kerr is like a cat, man. He doesn't just. Just give the freaking minutes and the love over just very easily.

[Justin Barrier]

Dude, they have Quentin Post now. There's only so many minutes available when.

[Rob Mahoney]

You have a Quentin Post is flat 3 is like he's got Damn Dirk Nowitzki. So shoot.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Seems maybe a little generous.

[Justin Barrier]

We feel good about. About Jackson Davis.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, was. Where do you want to go with this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like our next group should go center here.

[Chris Ryan]

Go center here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

And we could definitely use a big. I think there is a natural center on the board who's one of just the better players in the pool overall in terms of rock solid veterans. We're going to take Wendell Carter of the Orlando Magic.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, sir. Slightly overpaid, but is. You know, if he's your starting center, you're not getting killed. You're not like Phoenix earlier this season. Right. You're not like the freaking Lakers overreaching for Mark Williams, who was horrible last night, by the way. Even in a W, he sucked. Um, you're not in that position, like, where you're trying to overreach for a guy like that. You feel steady when you have Wendell Carter on your team. So I like Wendell Carter here.

[Justin Barrier]

I like Wendell Carter. My concern is that he's signed longer than I would think is ideal.

[Rob Mahoney]

So fat.

[Chris Ryan]

The third year is a team option. So three years under contract, but with a team option.

[Justin Barrier]

He's a good player. He's kind of been lost in the shuffle there. I thought he would start more this year once they got everyone back fully healthy because they needed stretch. But Goga has kind of locked down the starting center spot for them in Orlando. Could just be Carter himself working his way back from injuries. But I like him as a Player, very versatile, especially if you have like another big in your lineup who could do a little bit more of the big guy stuff. Sure. Good player. I think that's a good pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we could definitely use him like the stretch. Being actually stretchy this year. He's really struggled with his shot lately. Like, he needs to get back to some of his previous shooting form to really pay off for us. But good defensive player who's shown he can be a, like a crucial part of a really good defensive team.

[Justin Barrier]

That's.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a nice place to fill out our center rotation from.

[Justin Barrier]

So we've now gone through the first 10 picks and just to recap where we are here, the Sonics have Santi Aldama, Nicola Toppich, AJ Mitchell, Jonathan Mogo, Mobo. We'll get that right before the press conference. And Trace Jackson, Davis. The Blackjacks of Las Vegas are Cam Whitmore, Gigi Jackson, Jordan Poole, Ben Shepard, Wendell Carter Jr.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm thrilled.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sweet.

[Justin Barrier]

You guys have the names, we have the future.

[Chris Ryan]

You have Jonathan Mogbo's future, for better or worse. That's for sure.

[Justin Barrier]

Way in the future.

[Kyle Mann]

But okay, we're gonna cancel your all's asses out. I know it. I just. I have a great feel about it.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Kyle Mann]

Okay, we'll break.

[Justin Barrier]

We'll break from the board a little bit because we have to start dipping into some of the older players here, guys who are actually steady NBA veterans who have played NBA consistent minutes and playoff minutes. For this guy, unfortunately, we are going back to the Oklahoma City bank for this guy. His name Isaiah Joe.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Justin Barrier]

Obviously awesome score. Can fill it up for any team. Instant offense off the bench or maybe in the starting lineup with this setup. Contract is also very, very good. Three years, 37 million with the team option on the last year. So he checks all the boxes for the types of veterans we want. Like we're not cluttering our books. We can move them if we need to do so. But he's just like, he's going to fit any version of the team that we have. So excited to have Joe on board.

[Chris Ryan]

It really is stunning how many Thunder players are not just eligible to be drafted, but like good, good outcomes for an expansion draft. Like there's such a deep team, they can only protect so many guys. There are still Thunder players on the board who I think would be good additions to these expansion teams. And Isaiah Joe clearly on ours as well. The shooting speaks for itself. Even in relative down years. The threat that he presents, the movement that he brings to your team. Just like a good element to add to your offense. Especially these young teams, like an expansion team that are trying to get functional and trying to create space for whatever young prospects they're interested in to actually do things with the ball. Isaiah Joe's the kind of guy you want alongside them.

[Rob Mahoney]

165 a pound soaking wet. So watch out in the playoffs. But. But we don't have to worry about.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, we're not.

[Chris Ryan]

No one's going to the playoffs for a while.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, I was banking on you all passing up Ben Shepard and I was going to take him and then we could get traced. But you did that. So you're altering my plan a little bit here. But Isaiah Joe shoots it well at volume every which way, catch it, shoot in transition, handoffs, whatever you want. He'll make threes and he's going to get him on our team. I feel good about it.

[Justin Barrier]

Veteran of the process. Sixers and also the Thunder when they were bad. So he'll be used to losing games and putting up points. So I think the fan base will love him.

[Chris Ryan]

It is a skill set. Was. What are you thinking here? I feel like I. Look, I'm a little biased, but I feel like we could use a point guard and there's a veteran point guard in there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to say that. And I wanted. And like these guys call Isaiah Joe a veteran as if this guy's like been in the league and blah blah, blah is established. I want an actual guy who has. Not only is he still have something in the tank. Played over a decade. Known as one of the most high quality human beings in the NBA, if not in NBA history. This guy's reputation.

[Chris Ryan]

DeAndre.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, not DeAndre Ayton.

[Chris Ryan]

He is also on our no fly list, by the way, not to spoil it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also has earned max contracts, lottery picks, like all. He's ticked off so many things in his career. I just think it's an important thing to establish a culture within an organization and in the locker room. And that's why we're taking Mike Conley Jr.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's get. Let's get this adult in the room with the rest of these guys. And by the way, isaiah Joe is 25 years old. So yeah, all the veterans are relatives. Except when you get to the Conleys. Like we want a steady hand. We want a chef. Yeah, he's a little long in the tooth sometimes for what the Wolves need right now, but he's exactly what the Blackjacks need.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ideally he'd be playing like a little Less than. Chris Paul is playing for the spurs this year. Chris Paul's playing a lot.

[Kyle Mann]

What's the Conley contract like right now?

[Chris Ryan]

What's.

[Justin Barrier]

What's his deal one more year after this one?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, one year. About $11 million.

[Justin Barrier]

So yeah, it might be his last NBA season. So you guys at the very least get the send off to sell to the fans.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's going to be our ud.

[Chris Ryan]

That's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't understand. He's going to be part of what we're building going forward. We're even going to bring him into our own front office.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. He's going to get the ud. The Nick Collison treatment. Like that's going to be our guy. Assistant GM Mike Conley someday.

[Kyle Mann]

We're assuming a lot. You're assuming he wants to do that with his life. I mean, if you want to assume that, that's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

God loves the game, wants to be. Stay around the game.

[Chris Ryan]

And I think he's going to respond to the respect that we show him on a daily basis. As to Mike Conley appreciators.

[Justin Barrier]

All right, so we're back on the board here. Number 13 in the draft. Kyle. I feel like we got to go Thunder again.

[Kyle Mann]

Oh, you want to. I was thinking it's either that or I was thinking it might be lather score time. I think we might need. Wait, I don't know.

[Justin Barrier]

Hold on.

[Kyle Mann]

This is a. This is a. This is a. Me is. I'm sorry. This is. I mean just. We need like a bucket getter. Second unit throat, you know, walk us guy that's just going to go in and get. Get points.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Kyle Mann]

That's kind of what.

[Chris Ryan]

Walk us through the etymology. What is the. What is being lathered?

[Kyle Mann]

He gets in a lather immediately.

[Rob Mahoney]

He gets a sweat going. Got you.

[Kyle Mann]

The guys, the guys that get out there and they don't. They can just kind of get it going. The Crawford are archetype, you know. It's just they put points up. We don't depend on them for much other than just points. In the. In the second. Second unit.

[Justin Barrier]

I don't know who you're suggesting here. Oh, I see. Is he the guy you got?

[Rob Mahoney]

He's Filipino.

[Justin Barrier]

Is this leather score by low bet on.

[Kyle Mann]

We have two. We have two lather score by low bets.

[Justin Barrier]

Oh, that's right. You do have a second lather score comma by low bet.

[Chris Ryan]

Real. Real fire sale on leather scorers right now.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, I. Either of them is fine. I was going to go more. Yeah. If you want Another score.

[Kyle Mann]

You want to text me who the other person is, that's fine.

[Justin Barrier]

Go with your guy. I trust you. You're, you're the, the big voice in the room.

[Kyle Mann]

This feels like a lot of pressure on me. If, if you want to go with the glue guy, we can, that's, we can do that.

[Justin Barrier]

It's just, well, oh, here's the question. Do we need, do we need more off the bench scoring punch when we have Isaiah Joe at this point, I guess maybe if it's just Joe, it wouldn't be so bad. Go with your guy. I trust you. That's how much trust I have in my organization.

[Kyle Mann]

Or you just don't want to be burdened with thinking about it. That's also.

[Chris Ryan]

He delegates.

[Kyle Mann]

This is a coin toss because I think the other glue guy that we want, we could get a little later. This guy is somebody that I think eventually could be a legitimate second unit. And I was Highman in the, in the draft. He's had an up and down sort of start to his career. This is a buy low bet. Nick Smith Jr. I think from Charlotte, I think that he's a guy that can get buckets. He's been sort of slowly trending up. I, I like adding him to this situation because he'll be able to do what he does and then if he grows beyond that, excellent. Nick Smith Jr. Also another former like top ranked player.

[Chris Ryan]

You are cornering the market though at this point on guys who could be blown over by a strong gust of ac. Like it's, it's, it's a little scrawny out here. With all due respect to Nick Smith Jr. Who I do like and is an absolutely worthy bet and I think is symbolic in a lot of ways for what the expansion draft is about. These guys who just don't get protected because of depth or numbers games, who have promise, who are on rookie deals. Why wouldn't you bet on someone like Nick Smith Jr. See what he can get you in a potential lather.

[Kyle Mann]

There is something kind of interesting though being revealed about like what is value? Rob, we kind of talked about this a little bit over text. There is something interesting that's being revealed through this protection and this isn't exactly how it would be played out, I guess in real time, but I bet it wouldn't be far off from this that there are these guys who we assume are not going to be primaries, but they never quite graduate to legitimate second side dependability. And there's just a lot of those guys that just kind of fall by the wayside and there's a ton of them in this pool of players, so. But yeah, I'm willing to bet on Nick. He also is 6:2. He has shrunk year by year in the listings. He was like list five and he's just come down. Every NBA is ruthless with their wet Lucas six six on the NBA website. I noticed the other day, wow, another guy, another guy.

[Justin Barrier]

Recent late first round pick. I think it shows the depth of first round talent. I think especially for teams that have stacked a lot of these picks. A lot of these guys are just expendable because a team like the Thunder or even a team like the Hornets that's had a lot of draft picks just has late first just lying around available to just send off to Seattle where he could thrive in. In the uranium environments. But we're excited to have Smith on board. I think that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 7. We're, we're seven picks in. So what is your guys's seventh pick? The number 14 overall pick.

[Chris Ryan]

This is where I'm a little open wise. I don't have a lot of strong feelings about the guys we have. Neck kind of next up on the board here. Do you lean more veteran or do you want to take a chance on somebody?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm good keeping it going with the veterans, bro. Like these guys that haven't shown anything. I think it's for a reason. Um, and I get it. I, I get wanting to bring a toolsy guy and sort of taking a flyer on it. I just with those people, like when you have a gross sort of context, meaning the quality's not going to be there. So a dude who's like never found himself. He's not going to find himself amongst a bunch of slop. Like it makes sense when these biggest.

[Chris Ryan]

Slops was left on our cutting room.

[Rob Mahoney]

When these guys have structured like forced onto them and they have to find something to stick to. Right. And so we don't have that. That's why I'm like, I'm good with. I'm good with taking another wing here, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. So what do you think in terms of the guys who are next on our list? Do you want to go this guy I have highlighted here who's the number eight player on our list or do you want to go the guy we have a little higher who's admittedly a little more expensive? I think now that we have Jordan Pool's contract and Wendell Carter's contract, I'm starting to wonder about the money a little bit more I got to say.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I was thinking about eight. Who were you thinking about?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, let's go with eight.

[Justin Barrier]

Radio.

[Kyle Mann]

I'm bored.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was thinking about eight.

[Chris Ryan]

We're playing close to the vest here. We're locking it in, giving away who.

[Rob Mahoney]

We are, who we're looking at our number. Our pick is Ikoro.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Kyle Mann]

And again, what?

[Rob Mahoney]

Nobody's ever called the mic before.

[Justin Barrier]

I know him, but if he's getting a rebrand in Vegas.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. Baby, again. You know, every now and again has moments. The deal isn't completely unreasonable. Also, he's the type of player that a playoff team, veteran team can always talk themselves into. Maybe we take a flyer and Ike Koro and it might work out in the playoffs. He's that type of player because he has the pedigree of the, you know, the high lottery and stuff like that. And so, yeah, give me a Koro.

[Chris Ryan]

Plus two years running of good perimeter shooting, especially from the corners. Like, yes, that's a guy from the corners. I didn't claim anything else, but we need some of these reliable three and D types, and Isaac can get after it defensively. He can really pressure people. He can hound full court. He gives us an energy that I think is really beneficial to this group. Like, there are a lot of kind of mercurial, strange talents on our team, and we need some guys who are just going to go full bore every second they're on the floor. And Isaac Okoro, to me, is a bit of that.

[Justin Barrier]

We definitely had him around this range. The type of contract that might be a little pricey for a team like the Cavs right now that just keeps adding to its books, including DeAndre Hunter at the trade deadline. But for a team with literally $0 on the books before this exercise, I think. I think 11 million per season is. Is totally adequate and fine. Yeah. So I like that pick. Good, good second draft opportunity for him to find a footing. So there are a couple veterans, and let's do two more. And let's maybe be a little bit more transparent about how we're talking about these guys, because, I'll be frank. I don't know who else is listening to this still, but I'm having fun. I think we're looking at more veterans who are on real deal veteran contracts, which we haven't really prioritized up until now. We're looking in the front court. We're a little thin there beyond Mogbo or Jackson Davis. I think this is between Kyle Kenrich Williams, another Thunder player who I thought we were going to pick in the last pick. Good glue guy, chemistry guy. Could play a couple different positions for us. Or a guy like Obi Toppin, who is probably the better, more dynamic player, but on a longer contract. 3 years, 45 million after this, this season, it also increases, as opposed to decreasing. Something to consider there. Where do you want to go?

[Kyle Mann]

I'll go top. And just. Because I feel like Kenrich is going to be there. But Kenrich is so funny to me. Because when you talk to okc, I always say it reminds me of like when we were moving my grandmother, like, moving her house. She was a. She was like a hoarder, basically. And we were like, you got it. You can't keep everything. And she was like, no, no, I got it. And she was like arguing for every little tiny thing. When you talk to OKC fans, they've had so much success drafting. You'd be like, well, I mean, you're not gonna be able to hang on to Kenrich forever.

[Justin Barrier]

Right?

[Kyle Mann]

They're like, no, no, no.

[Chris Ryan]

We get. We could keep.

[Kyle Mann]

You know, I think Kenrich is awesome. I'm a big fan of him, but I feel like he'll probably be there if you guys want to draft him at a spike. Now that I've said that. But we need more athleticism and size and strength. So we'll go with.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's down, down, down our board.

[Chris Ryan]

And to full disclosure, Toppin is the exact guy we were talking about previously. It's just the three years. 45 million for us with the contracts we already have might be a little bit much. Plus a. A Wendell Carter ob top in front court is not what I'm looking for.

[Rob Mahoney]

In terms of movie is so one dimensional. You know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

He can shoot now. He obviously is a great transition.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm talking about. He's just an offensive player.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, just offense. Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. His defense is still. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn't really work.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thibodeau is somewhere saying, I told you so.

[Kyle Mann]

That's.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's good, right?

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, I would encourage you to go freaky on this one, okay? One of your young guys, flyer guys, you know, synergy guys, she's like, oh, that was a nice drop step.

[Chris Ryan]

The problem is this isn't a very freaky collection of players anymore.

[Justin Barrier]

The real freak freaks.

[Chris Ryan]

The real freaks are already off the board. And so now you're getting into some deep cut, like spray and pray types. Like, I'm just really hoping that this type of player could be important.

[Kyle Mann]

Spray and pray.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, I. I Have to say, I almost talked myself into Musa Diabate if we were going like 15 deep in this draft.

[Justin Barrier]

I like him, I.

[Chris Ryan]

Look, you have to applaud his willingness to just try shit. Like he's out there gobbling up boards and being kind of an effort, defensive big, but also will just attempt things on offense that no player like him should really probably ever attempt. But I, I appreciate like the delusions of grandeur and maybe the hope of eventual grandeur for a Musa Diabate. So shout out to him, I will not be selecting Musa Diabate. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take Omax Prosper. Admittedly more of a project, but if you watch the Mavericks play these days, you will see one to two plays every game where Omax Prosper will do some insane shit like intercept an outlet pass at half court by going full vertical and triggering a transition break the other way. He will also do four or five things that make absolutely no sense and.

[Kyle Mann]

Make you shoot like 35% from two or something crazy in two seasons.

[Chris Ryan]

An offensive player. But we, here's the good news, Kyle. We have offensive players, we have scoring at home. So we're going to bring in Omax Prosper and just see what he can be. I think at this range in the draft, there aren't a lot of high upside plays left. And so it is either stable veterans or young guys who have kind of gotten a first shot and flamed out. Omax is kind of just starting to get his real look in the N B A and I'm, I'm at least interested to see if he can get a continued one with the Black Jacks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also Haitian Canadian. That always matters on a team that I'm GMing. So shouts to Prosper and the Prosper family.

[Justin Barrier]

That's right. I hope the people who are only listening to this on the audio version go to the YouTube version to see Kyle's reaction when Rob read off Omax Prosper's name. The curious like, well, that's interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm selecting him with the 16th pick in our draft. You know, he's not exactly in Mogbo range, but not everyone can be.

[Kyle Mann]

Listen, I got like leaning on your Mogbo jokes. That's fine. I just thought I literally have Omax.

[Chris Ryan]

Higher on my board than Mogbo.

[Kyle Mann]

For the record, you are legitimately crazy. I don't, I don't see any reason to do that. I just think there was a glut of archetype, like there's a glut of a certain type of guy that I knew would be there. I personally think that Mogbo is going to be a good defender in the league and I was like, there's not as many of those guys. Just feel like. I just feel like I've kind of forced him to. To be honest. I think at this point if now we're seeing that there is like an end to the Runway of this and we're not going forever, I feel like we should get. Yeah, we should probably get an adult defensive anchor for our basketball team. I think so because I mean Jackson Davis can do some of that but I think we actually need someone with legitimate size and then you just kind of start having. These guys aren't. There is no long term bet in terms of a defensive anchor in this group. I mean if you're looking down through here, I mean my. Hold on, let me pull up. I had them clustered together. There's.

[Justin Barrier]

Are you looking at anchors or energy or switch bigs?

[Kyle Mann]

I don't, I don't waste picks on energy bigs.

[Chris Ryan]

Justin bowl, just, just Jonathan Mogbo.

[Kyle Mann]

Do you want to pay Deandre Ayton, who I wouldn't exactly call a lockdown anchor, I mean or do you want to get somebody cost effective wise like a nkeda? I mean, you know, who has come on a lot lately. I would lean towards K for the value play. Honestly, among those guys, he's not going to demand shots. He's going to be an adult on defense. I might lean towards Kata there. Honestly.

[Justin Barrier]

Here's my counter here. I'm looking at our roster and why I love the talent, love the upside of this team. 2028, that's our year, baby. Unfortunately not a lot of names to sell to the Seattle faithful at this point. And if we don't go out and get someone in the draft who's like a college star or someone who's a little bit more of a name and free agency. I do think we might need to sell some tickets at the very least.

[Kyle Mann]

The fuck it, we need to sell some tickets column which I also have here.

[Justin Barrier]

So I think the guys who are on the board, we could just talk about this outright because I don't think our friends in Las Vegas are going to pick them. I think Ayton makes some sense for us both because we have a hole at center. Also he's an expiring contract next year, so it really is just a one year poll. I think you could also look at him more as trade fodder down the road. But also we're stealing him from Our Pacific Northwest brethren. We're taking the heart and soul of this scrappy trailblazers team importing him to Seattle. And so we're going to bring the eyeballs with us. But the other guy I think we need to consider might be Bradley Beal. Just if we're thinking the next two years which is what Beal is under contract for. We just want the fans to enjoy halfway competent basketball. Beals a good player.

[Kyle Mann]

Jersey sales man. Wow. They're just going to fly off the shelves.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, little, little Kenny and little Sarah who just want to buy a jersey or their favorite new Seattle sign. Onyx player. I think there's a case for Bill. Which one do you want to go with?

[Rob Mahoney]

Kyle? I love the idea of Ayton as trade bait even though he's been offered up as experience fodder. That's, that's just a hilarious two step right there.

[Justin Barrier]

He's just, he's a contract at this point. I also think like when he's motivated he's played ball this year so that's another whole other story.

[Kyle Mann]

It's true. Beeler Bealer, Ayton man. You also said something about Portland. You know I think they're dead inside. They've lost so many big guys so I don't think they'd really be there hurt you know over that.

[Chris Ryan]

They might. Thank you for taking DeAndre.

[Justin Barrier]

Honestly. They might. We haven't even gotten to Chris Murray or Ryan Rupert territory. Just like don't get me started Kyle. I think, I think we need eight and more in terms of the makeup of what we have on paper right now but I think Beal would be the better draw.

[Kyle Mann]

I don't know man. I really don't. I honestly feel like we could meet halfway and I can't believe, I can't believe I'm going to even say this but, but maybe eight and does make sense for the types of guys that we have.

[Justin Barrier]

We're going to go in.

[Kyle Mann]

I don't really want to do that. You know now we're just.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who's.

[Kyle Mann]

Who do you genuinely think is going to sell more tickets? Justin Bradley Bealer or deandre Ayton?

[Justin Barrier]

I don't think anyone's coming. I could tell you for a fact nobody's coming to see deandre Ayton specifically. So I think Beal would be the better job.

[Kyle Mann]

But I of people I like Ayton.

[Justin Barrier]

Just with the makeup of our team he'll play one year. Worst case scenario we flip him at the deadline for some, some, some team teams have gotten Actually pretty desperate for centers who aren't on long term commitments. And so worst case he's just contract matching. We'll get a second round pick down the road for it. Just follow the presti way, baby.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Justin Barrier]

We're taking DeAndre in number 17 overall in the expansion draft. Seattle Sonics. Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, he was on our no fly list. So other players who we were not going to draft under basically any circumstances. Bradley Beal, as mentioned. Yusuf Nurkic, Pat Williams, Terry Rosier, Mo Wagner, who I probably would think about but he's already out with a torn ACL and so who knows what he's going to be next season. And then basically any of the guys who are restricted for agents only and as I mentioned that would make them unrestricted for agents only. But wise we still got some money we both love.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

A Grizzlies big man who I know you floated as we should maybe circle this guy and frankly we get to outflank Seattle so hard in selecting him and Portland so hard in selecting him that I think we should do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. J. Huff, come on down. Love it. Get on down to Vegas. Definitely. He's just been a revelation for me watching so many Memphis games this year. And Kyle, I'd never heard of this dude a day in my life before this season. And he's good. This guy gives them good minutes every single night, dude. And so yeah, I definitely. I've become a fan of his is.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's go. Love having Jason.

[Kyle Mann]

Go ahead.

[Justin Barrier]

What's the climbing gym scene look like in Las Vegas? Do you think I can tap into that?

[Chris Ryan]

It's great. I bet a lot of casinos have them honestly, as far as they're like kid friendly entertainment wing. I bet there's a lot of like empty silos in the middle of the desert that have been converted into climbing gems. I. I think the options are going to be robust.

[Kyle Mann]

That's probably true.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Kyle Mann]

Memphis deserves a lot of credit for like their like weight training program because he, you know, Aldama actually has improved his body a whole lot. And Jeff figure J. Hoff, like he used to just kind of be like a poster target basically in summer league. That's kind of what I knew him as. Everybody was going to try to dunk on him and he's improved his body so much. It's just cool to see. Was always a skilled player and I think it's. It's really helped him come break through in the league.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the only other big I would really think about here if we Were going big would be Kelly Olenez, who's available for a year under contract from the Pelicans. Just a really solid work a day, kind of stretch, kind of, you know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of ball skills. Having a stretch big is so huge to give them some room to breathe and operate. So. Definitely thought about Olenek here, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But how about some of that?

[Rob Mahoney]

We have one more pick, right?

[Chris Ryan]

I think that's all we got.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that's all we got.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have any honorable mentions, though? Was there anyone you wish we had picked?

[Rob Mahoney]

Jed Howard didn't get taken, did he?

[Chris Ryan]

He did not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jed Howard. There's a reason for that.

[Chris Ryan]

Jed Howard is like you hope he can be Isaiah Joe. And Isaiah Joe's on the board, so why would you not just take Isaiah Joe?

[Rob Mahoney]

Jordan Clarkson, nobody gave a damn about IO Disumu was high on my list. I love him just as an energy guy. Like, he plays with a certain force that I really love. Oh, and. And Luke Garza. Luke Garza. Like, God damn.

[Chris Ryan]

Luke. Luca Garza.

[Rob Mahoney]

Luca Garza.

[Justin Barrier]

Excuse me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Excuse me.

[Justin Barrier]

He's gonna be picked in the white guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Lou Garza.

[Rob Mahoney]

I said Luke.

[Chris Ryan]

But Waz is. Waz is closer with these players than we are. You know, I give Koro and Luke Garza, you know, those are his guys. But Kyle, Kyle, do you have an opinion of Jalen Wilson with the Nets? He's one of these random guys who, every time I watch him play, it's like, I don't know if the jumper will ever be there for him, but it feels like he's in the right spaces and it feels like he knows how to play. And I'm kind of. I'm kind of drawn to him as a prospect.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah. I think people didn't totally know what to make of him when he was at Kansas. I believe he was on the. With Grady Dick, if I'm not mistaken. But he's always. You know, he had great size, like you said. If the shooting had been there, I think he probably would have been a lot more valued in that draft process. I'm not surprised that he. He's stuck with them. I don't know that I have a strong opinion about where he's going to go in his career, but I'm always kind of. He's one of those guys that I've always just kind of kept an eye on because he. He had a lot of tools to kind of make a leap. Do you want to hit some of our, like, guys that we. I was. I kind of passed our First I would just started like trying to build a basketball team. I mean, I was interested if the cost was right to get a point of attack guy in because I think we need one with this group. And I was like, that's either going to be Davion Mitchell or I wasn't going to spend a high pick on him. The other was Jordan Walsh. I think eventually, I don't know about the shooting ever, but at the right spot, I think he is going to be a pain in the ass defensively. He's. He's got crazy long arms. He's got that kind of bendy gummy gumby strength that you like from your perimeter defenders. And then Jaden Hardy was the other coin flip lather score that I had.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, a couple other notable names that didn't go. Marcus Smart, who's on an expiring contract. Simone Fontechio. Yeah, that one hurts.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it's been, it's been a weird year for big Tech all around. Let's be honest.

[Justin Barrier]

It's a very weird year. Cole Anthony, I believe. Also available did not go. Kobe Buffkin, a recent lottery picked for the Atlanta Hawks. Those are, those are basically all the notable names.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, Buffkin, again, is a guy who I think fits the profile of someone who would be selected in a draft like this. And if, if the GM of an expansion team happens to be a Buff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Love the guy. Yeah, you can see him getting selected.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep. And he fits exactly what we were.

[Kyle Mann]

What I was talking about though, about like the value of the league being played out by who's protected. Granted, we said also Jamal Shed was. Was one of Michael's highlighted guys that none of us took.

[Chris Ryan]

I do like Shed.

[Justin Barrier]

All right. So, Rob, do you have the list of your team handy?

[Chris Ryan]

I do. The Las Vegas Blackjacks will be, at least for starters, before free agency in the draft and whatnot. Cam Whitmore, Gigi Jackson, Jordan Pool, Ben Shepard, Wendell Carter Jr. Mike Conley, player slash future assistant GM of the Black Jacks.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Ikekoro Omax Prosper. Jay Huff was. I'm pretty thrilled about this team. I think we really nailed it.

[Kyle Mann]

Look, okay, look, if we played you guys, you'd beat us. All right? I'll give you that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, you'd beat us.

[Kyle Mann]

But that was not my thinking in this game. I'm thinking we're going to be bad and if we try to be good, we're not going to be very good. So I didn't see much point in that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just remember, just because you Think you're saying Presti doesn't mean you have his job security. Just always remember that's true.

[Justin Barrier]

Fortunately, I'm also the owner of the team, so I control my own destiny. The Sonics. Just to recap here, Santi Aldama, Nicola Topich, AJ Mitchell, Jonathan Mogbo, who we love Trace Jackson, Davis, Isaiah Joe. So Nick Smith Jr. Obi Toppin, Deandre Ayton rounding out the core. That's the expansion draft. I feel pretty good about this. This is a fun exercise, even though you really have to be a fucking sicko to have lasted this long in this podcast to want to hear our thoughts? We love you about Nick Smith Jr. But we do love you and we love this exercise.

[Chris Ryan]

We are who we are. But it does go to show when this does eventually happen, and it will, there will be expansion in the NBA. This is what you're looking forward to, is guys of this caliber mostly right? Second, second draft guys, distressed veterans or guys on overpaid contracts relative to what their teams want. It's. It's not going to be a murderer's row.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, yeah. We, we sat out and we were. We both agreed like, we are not going after older players at all. We kind of drew a line on our board. We were like, at what point in this draft will you consider an older player? And we drew the line at 10. So we weren't even going to consider an older player past 10. Just to give you an idea of how different we were going into this.

[Rob Mahoney]

That'S how you end up with the process. Sixers in that crap environment, it's disgusting thing. You got to have actual real NBA players, adults in the room. It can't just be a bunch of kids. Then you draft some kid, you pat him in the ass, tell him he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's not the way to build a culture. You got to have adults in the room. Or at least that's what I believe.

[Chris Ryan]

And as far as our draft strategies, we selected one player older than 25. Like, we got a. We got a young team. It's just Mike Conley and the kids for the most part.

[Justin Barrier]

True. I think the veterans are out there in free agency. You know, Taj Gibson is always looking for work, so we can always just bring him in.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's always. Are you guys coaching Thibodeau or something?

[Justin Barrier]

Just might not that bad play. I will say this does make me pretty excited for expansion. I do think the teams will be pretty bad pretty quickly. But just to have new teams on the map, just exploring new territories in the NBA. I think Vegas will probably be an attractive market. I think Seattle is a more metropolitan city than I think people realize, and so I'm curious how much they'll attract. There's definitely more of like a downtown city scene there than there is for some of the smaller markets. So I just can't wait to see those jerseys out there, see the Black Jacks logo get drawn up and unveiled by was.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the Blackjacks better be black, too.

[Chris Ryan]

He better be black.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't want to see any European Black Jacks. Thank you very much.

[Justin Barrier]

Kyle, you'll be doing some more scouting in recent weeks and months because you'll be heading up our draft coverage at the Ringer. Anything you want to. Want to plug here? Draft guide, maybe you hit it.

[Kyle Mann]

I mean, yeah, we're going to. We're working on that. Danny and I are working on those profiles and we've got some other draft kind of content. I'm going to be pumping some of that stuff out around the conference tournaments, too. Just highlighting guys in the. Trying to create a little bit of a watcher's guide since, you know, there's some people who aren't familiar with younger players in the NBA, so they especially don't know who the fuck these guys in the NCAA tournament are. I understand all that. And we're editing another Home and Away also. On top of all of that, will.

[Rob Mahoney]

You be explaining why Rutgers is so garbage?

[Kyle Mann]

He's been a lot of money on two very, very expensive freshmen, Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper, and their team is just not very good.

[Chris Ryan]

But if you've not seen Home in a way, please go to the Ringer NBA's YouTube page. Watch all. I believe you've done three so far, Kyle. Three home and away videos so far. Fourth coming.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, fourth is coming. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Just not to blow too much. Blow too much smoke for Kyle. But one of the coolest things we do at the ringer. Go, go watch Home and Away as soon as you can, period.

[Kyle Mann]

Thank you, Rob.

[Justin Barrier]

So check out those things.

[Kyle Mann]

Justin helps on that also.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, I do. It's all me. I do everything. Congrats to me. We'll be back. Back next week. Usual schedule, Monday, Thursday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you, Kyle, for jumping in here. We'll talk to you next time.