The Ringer NBA Show: "The Pistons Are Badass, LeBron Returns, and Early Eye-Opening Teams"

Episode Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Justin Verrier (A), Rob Mahoney (B), J. Kyle Mann (C)

Episode Overview

The "Group Chat" trio discusses the NBA's biggest early surprises in the 2025-26 season, focusing on teams that have exceeded or subverted expectations. From LeBron’s historic 23rd NBA season and the newly dynamic Lakers, to Detroit's remarkable rise, and eye-opening shifts from teams like the Suns, Hawks, and Raptors, the crew debates what feels real and what might be a mirage. The show is loaded with deep-cut analysis, playful banter, and the hosts’ distinct personalities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. LeBron James’ 23rd Season and Lakers’ New Look

• LeBron’s Return: The hosts reflect on the unique significance of seeing LeBron play in a 23rd NBA season, drawing generational comparisons.
  • "LeBron has been one of the great constants of our entire lives, if we're being honest." — Rob (06:06)
• Shifting Roles: Discussion about LeBron's transformation into more of a connector/off-ball presence, citing his cerebral playmaking and “old pitcher” economy-of-motion.
  • "He’s reached that level of cerebral… Now that the bursts and the athleticism, it’s more finite." — Kyle (09:04)
• LeBron-Luka Dynamics: The value of LeBron as a secondary playmaker to Luka Doncic, opening up new offensive possibilities for big man Deandre Ayton.
  • "Having LeBron as the connector of your team is kind of ridiculous… the luxury of that kind of sophistication." — Rob (11:02)
• Defense vs. Offense: While the offense has diversified and grown potent, the defense remains questionable.
  • "Deontay George looked like prime Kyrie Irving out there… The offense is going to be spectacular. The defense, we'll see." — Justin (14:28)
• New Identity: The Lakers' ability to stabilize and excel even when shorthanded is praised; expectations are raised for them to stay near the top of the West.

Notable Quotes

• “[LeBron is] one of the signature athletes... He tells the story of basketball.” — Rob (07:37)
• “If you could run pick and roll with multiple LeBrons, that's the definitive option!” — Rob (13:38)

2. The Detroit Pistons: From Pretenders to Juggernaut

• Record and Process: Pistons' 11-game winning streak; initial skepticism about their schedule quickly gives way to admiration for their process and consistency.
  • "If you take care of business, if you beat teams that you should beat handily, and the process is good, I think it's credible." — Kyle (22:14)
• Cade Cunningham Ascendant: Now averaging 27 ppg, he’s compared to a “Superstar” and praised for physical, bully-ball style play enabled by improvements around him.
  • "Cade looks like a Superstar. I think some of the interesting… does it start with Jalen Duran?" — Kyle (22:41)
• Jalen Duran’s Breakout: Transforming from a finisher to a creator, dominating both as a roll-man and a passer. Hosts marvel at his force, touch, and growing offensive package—moving beyond a simple dunker.
  • "Duran has shifted into a space where he's just kind of unstoppable now… He's manufacturing this stuff." — Rob (23:14)
  • "He never looks like he's trying that hard to move people. The dude's just like a slab of iron." — Kyle (27:41)
• Supporting Cast and Depth: Danis Jenkins’ emergent play ("Jenkins effect"), Duncan Robinson’s hot shooting, and Isaiah Stewart's physicality contribute to a defensive-minded, hard-nosed team identity.
• Physicality as a Calling Card: The Pistons “beat the shit out of you,” embracing defensive aggression ("they can't call them all"), which sets their tone.
  • "They just beat the shit out of you… it feeds the spirit of everything they do." — Rob (28:44)
• Contender Status: Optimism that the Pistons are legitimate Eastern contenders due both to their development and the East’s unsettled landscape.
  • "If all that stuff is true and continues to be true, this is a contending team, especially in the East." — Rob (31:12)

Notable Quotes

• "You're just expanding your decision tree if LeBron is out there..." — Kyle (12:01)
• "With every discipline... there's an economy of motion when you watch greatness play." — Kyle (09:04)
• "Having Duran create more room pressure... you're basically just giving Cade's game a Ricola." — Kyle (32:08)

Timestamps:

• LeBron segment begins: [05:06]
• Pistons segment begins: [22:14]

3. The Atlanta Hawks: Life Without Trae Young

• Defensive Surge: 7–3 record without Trae Young, ranking 5th in defense over that stretch; offense is more democratic but also more turnover-prone.
• Jalen Johnson Emergence: Hosts discuss Johnson as arguably the Hawks’ best all-around player—showing star flashes as a playmaking wing.
  • "Jalen Johnson… might be [the best all-around player] even when Trey comes back." — Rob (39:26)
• Trey's Future: A more “muted” version of Trae that fits the new team style is preferred—otherwise his ball-dominance and declining shot may hinder their ceiling.
  • "Ultimately, it's a good problem to have… you can get by with some of the good things Trey does, but not necessarily Trey himself." — Justin (41:05)
• Onyeka Okongwu and Defensive Identity: Okongwu's switchiness is key to their new identity, though limitations are acknowledged.
• Overall Outlook: The Hawks look like a good, but not top-tier, East team; are they a serious threat or ultimately stuck in the middle?
  • "The offense is working, sort of… but it's a decent proof of concept that needs a little pushing in the right direction." — Kyle (45:34)

Notable Quotes

• "The flow and the process for the Hawks feels so good, but they run into real lulls…that’s where you miss Trae." — Rob (39:26)
• "I'm just kind of in the middle. I'm definitely not as high as I was..." — Kyle (45:34)

Timestamps:

• Hawks segment begins: [36:45]

4. The Toronto Raptors: Balance and Identity

• Statistical Profile: One of the few top-ten teams both offensively and defensively.
• Collective Approach: Anchored by Brandon Ingram’s improved buy-in and midrange shot-making, the Raptors succeed with depth, adaptability, and low turnovers.
  • "A team that is top ten on both sides of the ball... One of them is the Toronto Raptors, which is crazy." — Rob (50:27)
• Scotty Barnes Role: Less primary responsibility allows Barnes to thrive as a defense-first utility ace, guarding a wide variety of star assignments.
  • "Scotty Barnes has been a total badass on defense because he's been relieved of some of that responsibility." — Rob (57:31)
• Emmanuel Quickley & Bench Mob: The second unit is praised for its versatility and athleticism (shout-out to Sandro Mamukelashvili).
• Playoff Questions: Hosts raise whether lack of a single dominant creator could limit playoff upside, but celebrate the surprising present.

Notable Quotes

• "Good players playing within themselves has taken the Raptors a long way." — Rob (53:36)
• "The key for Scotty is be more Pascal, not more Kawhi." — Justin (58:44)

Timestamps:

• Raptors segment begins: [50:27]

5. Other Early Surprises and Observations

Phoenix Suns: Defensive Grit and Depth Emerge

• Remade Identity: Suns focus on defense and role-player buy-in instead of just star power; surprising, sustainable grit seen as a fundamental shift.
• Dylan Brooks Effect: Brooks is identified as the emotional engine and galvanizer, providing vital edge and collaborative energy.
  • "Dylan Brooks has had success with three separate teams just by galvanizing them by how much of a psychopath he is." — Justin (67:43)
• Jordan’s Coaching Impact: Acknowledgment that team culture and collective investment is as good as it’s been since their Finals run.
  • "Jordan is the right coach for this team and it seems like there’s a real symbiosis..." — Justin (75:40)
• Concerns Remain: The sustainability of the defense and overall depth against elite competition unresolved, some concern about missing an offensive “ceiling-raiser.”

Broadcast/League Gripes (Comic Relief)

• Frustration over late West Coast start times for TV broadcasts.
• Complaints about “2K overlay” graphics that obscure players and distract.
  • "I despise the 2k overlay thing that NBC is doing. They gotta stop." — Kyle (61:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They can't call them all—and so they just beat the shit out of you all the time in a way that not only works, but I think feeds the spirit of everything they do." — Rob on the Pistons' defense (28:44)
• "You're just expanding your decision tree if LeBron is out there." — Kyle (12:01)
• "The difference is Rob would still pod with a back injury... Even though he's on painkillers." — Justin (15:25)
• "Dylan Brooks has had success with three separate teams just by galvanizing them by how much of a psychopath he is." — Justin (67:43)
• [On Raptors’ collective structure] "Put all five of those motherfuckers in the All Star game because that’s what’s working for them." — Justin (54:45)
• Playful banter about social media algorithms, “Bart Fart Muncher 69,” and the Chonkasaurus Instagram for comic breaks. (56:35–57:35)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• LeBron’s Return & Lakers’ New Shape: [05:06] – [22:14]
• Detroit Pistons’ Rise: [22:14] – [36:45]
• Atlanta Hawks’ Surprising Stretch: [36:45] – [50:27]
• Toronto Raptors’ Balanced Success: [50:27] – [59:12]
• Phoenix Suns’ Defensive Identity & Culture: [59:35] – [76:20]

Tone and Language

The episode is lively and witty, brimming with inside jokes, literary metaphors, and asides (Paramore, tennis, social media oddities). The analysis is dense but conversational, mixing data points with analogies from music, television, and pop culture. The team keeps things accessible, with a refreshing mix of skepticism and delight at the unexpected directions of the 2025-26 NBA season.

Summary

This "Group Chat" episode provides a comprehensive, highly entertaining snapshot of the NBA’s biggest early surprises: the newly gritty, playmaking Lakers; the beastly, swaggering Pistons led by Cade and Duran; the Hawks’ experiments in life without Trae Young; the unflashy but serious Raptors; and the Suns' culture reset. The recurring theme—the value and challenges of team buy-in, adaptability, and genuine defensive investment—echo across the discussion, painting a nuanced picture of contenders and wild cards in both conferences.

Whether you’re wondering if the Pistons are for real, how the Lakers might evolve, or if Dylan Brooks can keep his redemption arc going, the hosts mix rigorous breakdown and irreverent humor in a way that makes the whole conversation as fun as it is insightful.