The Spurs Get Nasty, and the Knicks Keep Winning. Plus, the Jaylen Brown Landscape. | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show | Group Chat | “The Spurs Get Nasty, and the Knicks Keep Winning. Plus, the Jaylen Brown Landscape.”

Date: May 7, 2026
Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann

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Episode Overview

This edition of “Group Chat” dives into the NBA Playoffs with sharp, irreverent analysis and plenty of laughs. The crew leads with a breakdown of the Spurs’ suffocating defense against Minnesota, explores how the Knicks keep finding ways to win, and finishes with the intrigue swirling around Jaylen Brown’s future in Boston. Along the way, they hit on tactical adjustments, injury fallout, and speculate on major roster moves. The conversation is spirited, clever, and packed with candid takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Spurs vs. Timberwolves: Defensive Masterclass and Wolves Concerns

Timestamps:

• Full segment: [05:04]–[19:20]

Spurs’ Defense Takes Center Stage

• The Spurs displayed an “absolutely ferocious, take-no-prisoners, title-level performance,” stifling Minnesota’s attack from the outset ([05:04] Justin Verrier).
• “A tightening of the screws… we know they can do. For a quarter it seemed like the Wolves were up for it, and then they quickly faded… like last pickup game of the day kind of intensity”—J. Kyle Mann ([05:22]).

Wolves’ Offensive Struggles

• Anthony Edwards (“Ant”) is clearly hampered by injury, going 5-for-13; the Spurs’ constant trapping forced secondary Wolves to make plays, exposing their thin perimeter depth ([07:02] Rob Mahoney).
• “You just don't want [Ant] to feel comfortable… smart play by the Spurs, fair play by the Spurs, really threw the Wolves off balance.” ([07:59] J. Kyle Mann)
• Jalen McDaniels’ foul trouble and Julius Randle’s lack of transition effort also drained Wolves’ already limited options.

Wemby’s Growth & Downstream Impact

• Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”) was less frenetic going for blocks, zoning more and “allowing the Wolves to attempt those sort of… low percentage looks,” cutting down on live-ball risks ([09:49] Justin Verrier).
• “The downstream effects from Wemby are just… so profound… The Wolves overall bending in his direction even when he's not aggressively attacking the basket” ([13:28] J. Kyle Mann).
• “This playoffs is just a recognition of when Wemby is the biggest center on the court… so much good to unearth” ([12:19] Rob Mahoney).
• The Spurs’ physicality—Castle driving into McDaniels, Johnson thriving in transition—further demoralized the Wolves.

Notable Quote

• “If Ant is going to play like this… I worry… how they recover from something like this.” ([08:14] Rob Mahoney)

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2. Knicks Keep Winning: Resilience and Hidden Strengths

Timestamps:

• Segment: [20:54]–[40:51]

Knicks’ Grit and Flexibility

• Knicks’ fifth straight win: “Here they are, probably the hottest team other than the Thunder in the entire league… Embiid goes out, takes a little air out of the game… but Brunson, like, he executes. This is what he does. And it just felt like that was the difference.” ([20:54] Rob Mahoney)
• Fourth quarter was “just two teams both throwing rocks”—not pretty, but New York had “a little more to work with.” ([21:37] J. Kyle Mann)
• “They shovel it to Brunson and he makes something happen… the flexibility to play through him, Cat, OG, selectively target mismatches.” ([26:12] Rob Mahoney).

Secondary Contributors & Key Adjustments

• OG Anunoby’s impact: “He always gives those little bits of effort and he… doesn't really dog it… it's hard to take him away.” ([33:31] Justin Verrier)
• OG’s contract value revisited: “If you have ever… argued OG Anunoby is overpaid… you need to look inward. He's a good player who shows up in the playoffs.” ([32:12] J. Kyle Mann)
• Philly’s small-ball experimentation—using Barlow, Bona’s wild fouling, Paul George as stretch-four—couldn’t solve matchup issues when Knicks’ offense gets enough “miracle rabbits” from Brunson ([23:06]–[28:30]).
• Maxi was run into the ground by extended minutes, and the Sixers struggle as “various role playing Sixers who would have to do more than they are qualified to do” committed errors under defensive pressure ([35:39] J. Kyle Mann).

Notable Quotes

• “He just has a real incredible combination of just solid frame and, you know, versatility in the way that he moves… he's just fucking huge when he goes to the basket.” ([33:31] Justin Verrier)
• “That's playing right into their strength. So it's hard to figure out… It's just like, maybe you figure out a way to get PG some touches…” ([36:55] Justin Verrier)

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3. Around the Playoff Horn: Quick Hits on Cavs–Pistons & Lakers–Thunder

Timestamps:

• Cavs–Pistons: [42:00]–[52:52]
• Lakers–Thunder: [52:59]–[60:56]

Cavs–Pistons: Mobley’s Limitation and Pistons’ Depth

• Evan Mobley’s inability to anchor minutes as a five is “a huge indictment… every minute [Thomas Bryant] plays is an indictment on Mobley” ([42:08] J. Kyle Mann).
• Bickerstaff, now facing Cleveland with Detroit, knows all Mobley’s “stress points”—“If any coach were prepared to stress Evan Mobley… it’s Bickerstaff” ([43:55] Justin Verrier).
• Detroit’s “supporting cast feels alive in a way they weren't in the first series,” and Jenkins’ emergence as a versatile closer stands out ([47:27] Rob Mahoney).

Lakers–Thunder: OKC’s Relentless Pressure

• “The Thunder have an inverted version of [the Warriors defensive challenge]… all the energy you expend on offense trying to break them down… wears on you… by the fourth quarter… you just kind of like, implode.” ([54:51] J. Kyle Mann)
• OKC’s depth of ball handlers exposed Lakers’ lack of perimeter juice—“They bring them in waves… no place in the chain to pull on” ([58:13] Justin Verrier).
• The Chet Holmgren–Jared McCain combo’s volume and precision is “terrifying,” especially with SGA’s “merchant” reputation for foul-drawing already creating league chatter ([55:41] Rob Mahoney).
• “Very tough” situation for Austin Reaves, possibly playing himself into Memphis’s free agent crosshairs ([60:07] Justin Verrier).

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4. JAYLEN BROWN LANDSCAPE: Trade Watch, Long-Term Fit, and Live Stream Drama

Timestamps:

• Segment: [64:27]–[75:54]

Dissecting Brown’s Unsettled Status

• Jaylen Brown’s social media cleanups: “If you have to do a second live stream to correct and address the controversy from your first live stream, like, I think you’ve stepped in it a little bit.” ([65:54] J. Kyle Mann)
• Limited market for Brown despite his star status; his style isn’t a lift-all-boats number-one for rebuilding teams ([71:45] Rob Mahoney).
• Potential landing spots:
  • Hawks: “I think they might be a kind of player away, but I don’t know that it’s a Jalen Brown necessarily.” ([67:43] J. Kyle Mann)
  • Sixers (for Paul George): “Do we want to get rid of the young up-and-coming guy for the guy who's established?” ([69:16] Rob Mahoney)
  • Blazers (in a Giannis three-way): “At least there’s a logic to it… The fit is not perfect but… there’s a natural bedfellow with the Bucks picks” ([73:05] Rob Mahoney)
  • Other bad teams: “Those are all bad teams—which he’s not going to willingly want to go and sign up for…” ([71:37] Rob Mahoney)
• “He’s a matter of taste… some execs just aren’t Jalen Brown people… so long as that's the case, the market's going to be narrow.” ([70:56] J. Kyle Mann)
• Status quo still most likely, but dissatisfaction could boil over if relationships sour.
• “If everyone’s fine dealing with each other, [staying put] makes the most sense… It’s a very good team.” ([74:53] Rob Mahoney)
• Brown’s quote: “I love Boston. If it was up to me, I could play in Boston for the next 10 years. Very weird way to say that under the circumstances.” ([75:18] J. Kyle Mann)

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5. Memorable Miscellany & Fun

Timestamps:

• NBA Dairy Rankings and “Is Butter Better?”: [30:04]–[30:54]
• Bizarre Memphis hotel anecdotes, Dr. Mario/Thunder pain box analogy, and “Butt Ducks” bumper sticker bit: [61:02]–[63:48]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “[Wemby’s] pull up threes out in this game… more of a cherry on top of the ass-whooping sundae.” ([14:22] Justin Verrier)
• OG Anunoby’s value: “I'm not a windy, you know.” ([74:39] J. Kyle Mann, on being given free Finalysis sweatshirts)
• “I like duck butts and I cannot lie.”—the off-the-rails late-night bumper sticker discussion ([62:14] Rob Mahoney & co.)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp Start | Hosts Discuss | |-------------------------------------|----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | Spurs-Wolves Recap | 05:04 | Spurs defense, Wemby’s impact, Wolves’ offensive issues | | Knicks-Philly Recap | 20:54 | Knicks resilience, Brunson/OG, Sixers’ tactical tweaks | | Cavs-Pistons Analysis | 42:08 | Mobley’s limits, Pistons’ rise, bench impact | | Lakers-Thunder Analysis | 52:59 | OKC pressure, Lakers’ roster, free agency intrigue | | Jaylen Brown Trade Scenarios | 64:27 | Trade fits, live stream fallout, team-building philosophy |

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Tone & Style

The group maintains the playful, inside-joke feel typical of Group Chat—jumping from sharp insight to irreverent banter, all the while grounding takes in clear Xs and Os. The conversation is candid and light on clichés, with frequent “bit” detours and meta-commentary on NBA discourse itself.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a perfect encapsulation of The Ringer NBA Show’s unique blend of deep basketball analysis and offbeat humor. Listeners are brought closer to the high-level trends shaping these playoffs—how defense and depth are dictating terms, what injuries and coaching mean for in-series adaptation, and where All-NBA-caliber drama might shake up the league’s landscape next.

Whether you missed the games or just want a punchy, perspective-filled recap of what really matters right now, this Group Chat hits the mark.

Transcript

[Justin Ferrier]

Foreign.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Ferrier, and joining me, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann. Guys, I spent some time digging through your high school tape, and I gotta say, Rob, you. Your debate club, like, statistics not as good as you think they are. You weren't that guy.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I feel deeply wounded in a way I never expected to on this podcast. It's just like an incredibly fucked up thing to say.

[Justin Ferrier]

You a debate club guy, Rob? Is that. Is that true?

[J. Kyle Mann]

That was. That was my extracurricular activity of choice. Do I not seem like a natural athlete? Does that sound good?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was going to say, like, can you not tell?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Okay, what's that supposed to mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Hey, you're very dialed in.

[Justin Ferrier]

You know, a little pot kettle black there, jb, but yeah, I'm not dialed in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that what we're saying? Then that becomes the disc.

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, you're. You're assailing Rob for the, the. His aesthetic, aesthetics and saying that implies something about what he could be a part of. I've heard that Rob was good at basketball. I didn't know. Far be it for me to cast. I'm not. I'm not casting stones either. Before we came on the show, I was talking extensively about my transition from trumpet to tuba and high school band and, and the details of that and, you know, how I was kicking ass on tuba. But. So, no, man, I mean, I'm not throwing any stones. It's fine. Everything's fine. You can do a lot.

[J. Kyle Mann]

They say trumpet to tuba is the hardest transition to make. But, Justin, I mean, who were you in high school? What were you into? We know at one point you were in a ska band, I suspect, you know, maybe some. Some herbal remedies happening in your life at that point in time. Like what. What's your vibe of high school, Justin?

[Rob Mahoney]

Only herbs I was getting into was Herbal Essence, man. Just like that. Seven in one conditioner botanicals.

[Justin Ferrier]

You had the urge in high school, that's what you're saying, jn?

[Rob Mahoney]

That wasn't me. I was just a cool guy. Just a real ladies man, you know? No, that's not true. I think I had one girlfriend and I was lucky to have that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

But what'd you do? Were you into literally anything?

[Rob Mahoney]

Was I into. I played lacrosse. I was in a band. I was just. I was just getting by, man. I was just finding myself, you know, I was just finding my podcasting voice is what I was doing.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think that's definitely true. And, you know, it was. It was only onward and upward from there you're still peaking. You're still finding your apex. So I look forward to seeing the best version of Justin.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does anybody. Do you think, at home, realize that this is an Austin Rivers Draymond Green reference? Or have we gone so far upstream so quickly that nobody can even tell?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think the best bits are quickly unrecognizable as bits. Do we have any commentary on the Draymond Austin alleged beef, Fabricated beef, whatever that is?

[Justin Ferrier]

I would start with just why. You know, I don't really. I had a moment where I wondered if there was, like, a Lawler Kaufman thing going on where. Because when. When Draymond came back and he was, you know, I don't know if we want to jump to the Barkley thing that he did on Inside the NBA that landed like a, you know, like a lead balloon that everybody just kind of sat there and looked at him. I was like, that feels kind of genuine. Like he just in the moment thought, I'm going to go with this, and. But it made me wonder if maybe he's just trying to promote his podcast or. I don't know if maybe somebody got in Draymond's ear. Draymond's also the type of person who's just, like. As we were joking about before we came on here, it's just like, he's also just liable to just do that kind of thing. So, yeah, it's hard to know what's a bit. Speaking of, the bits are unrecognizable with Draymond because that's kind of who he is. I don't think it's a bit. I don't know what you all think.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just was marveling at the amount of accounting going on for, like, the specific receipts where Austin's rebuttal was basically like, all right, you got me. And when the NBA, you're a Hall of Famer. And I was like, just, okay. But. But in high school. Don't you dare. Don't you dare talk about. I was putting up numbers. I had a cool season at Duke, but everything else in my career didn't go great. But those you cannot touch.

[J. Kyle Mann]

That's. I mean, it's going to play really well at the high school reunion, you know, like, really, no one can take that stuff away from you.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true. All right, on today's podcast, we have two NBA playoff games to diagnose off of tonight on Wednesday. We'll also look ahead to some of the other series going on here and maybe talk about Jaylen Brown, who did yet Another live stream tonight, so we'll get into that and more after this. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by fanduel. It's been a wild playoff run, but it's not over yet and FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make more of all the action to come. FanDuel is the best place to bet teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sports Play app now and play your game 21 plus select states 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, call 1-888-789777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut so the spurs showed up tonight in pretty spectacular fashion and didn't have it going. But holy shit, the spurs defense got nasty from the jump and whatever they even tried to get going was shut down. This was a pretty ferocious take no prisoners sort of title level sort of performance from the spurs tonight, Rob.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, I think just like a tightening of the screws in a way that we know they can do and we've seen them do to like do that exact thing to other high level teams. And I would say like for a quarter or maybe like half a quarter, it seemed like maybe the Wolves were up for it and then they quickly faded into. I don't even know how to describe it, like last run of the pickup, like last pickup game of the day kind of intensity, like just straight up jogging back in transition, letting the spurs get all of these free points, all this easy stuff. I think in part because they were dispirited and having to work so hard to score for themselves, but just like an absolute stinker from Minnesota in a way that we really haven't seen from them all playoffs long yet.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, you know, obviously Ant is a little slowed, you know, IO as we found out is slow too. The ball handlers are just dropping left and right and I think it's partly, you know, the spurs brought the fight to them in terms of, you know, trapping Ant constantly, which I think put Minnesota in the position too with their limited kind of perimeter personnel to it, turned a lot of their guys into connectors and decision makers and I think that bogged them down because I kind of felt like San Antonio laid back and just sort of like let you know they, they kind of were in containment mode more so than pressure mode. But I think, Rob, what you said is true Where I noticed the game shift when Kelton Johnson was just really, really outworking Julius Randall and Randall and Shannon and I think Doris even said something about it just wasn't getting back. And the spurs constantly were. Were getting. We're getting numbers in transition and that's where the game kind of like tested their will and they bent and they broke and they just kind of never came back.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it was like they replicated the Wolves in certain areas where they were just all over them from the jump in a way that I haven't seen the spurs play defense all playoffs in part because they didn' have to at times against the Blazers. This was just a new level of ferocity that went beyond just Wemby dominating and everybody else picking things up from there. But on top of that, they kind of just like exposed just the lack of ball handlers and everything else going there and really showed that like, the Wolves might be tough, but they not might not be as skilled as what the spurs have going on here. And I have to say, if Ann is going to play like this 5 for 13 in this game, I think he started 1 for 6 very clear from the jump. He just did not have it came off the bench again. I worry if like he doesn't get going and if, especially if IO just like doesn't get through these injuries which have now nagged him for a couple weeks now. I don't know, I don't even be present at the moment because if you flashback a couple days ago, I would have been like, oh my God, the Wolves are about to win the title. But this seemed like the type of thing where it's like, oh shit. Like I don't know how they recover from something like this.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I just don't know how much we can realistically expect from Ant more than this. Like, he really shouldn't be playing, but is because this is the state of the season and everything is on the line. And so he's trying to give it his best. But you're right, like you can tell every time he tries to explode to the rim. Just not getting that push off the first step. When he does get to the rim, he's getting blocked by Julian Chimpani. Like, this is not the Anthony Edwards we're used to and it's not the Anthony Edwards the Wolves are used to. And I think trapping him is a really smart gambit. Like, sometimes you trap guys because they feel unstoppable. Sometimes you trap them because you don't want them to get any sense of rhythm whatsoever. And I think the key with Ant is like, you just don't want him to feel comfortable in this game at any particular point and settle into what his body will allow him to do right now. So I think it's like smart, smart play by the spurs, fair play by the spurs really threw the Wolves off balance. And I think some of the Julius Randle stuff you were talking about, Kyle, it's like there were points in this game in the first half where he was really the only thing they had going offensively. And you can see some guys who are forced into that role or who take that role then take it upon themselves to be like, oh well, I got the shot up. I had to work hard for that possession. I, I got that bucket. Now I'm going to kind of like take it easy going back the other way or I'm just going to like take this lazy cross match instead. There's just really no room for that when the spurs are going to run this hard basically up and down the roster. This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's international tournament is here and Ferrero is going all in. Enter for your shot at a range of prizes just by buying your favorites like Tic Tac Freshman's Cool, Minty and Simple or Halo Top Ice Cream loaded with crave worthy mix ins in every bite and half the calories of leading competitors. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1 million. Official rules apply. Learn more at Go all in and win.com

[Justin Ferrier]

yeah, something else I noticed too was that this is just an observation. I don't know if you all disagree or agree with this, but it felt like the fervor and the frenzy that Wimby was chasing blocks in the first game. Granted he got a bunch of them. I felt like he was a little more calculated in the ones that he went after during this game. Granted he started the game going after a couple, but he was zoning and kind of just allowing the Wolves to attempt those sort of, you know, 8 to 12, 13, whatever it is, shot foot shots where. And those just were low percentage looks and they missed a bunch of them. Whereas in the first game, you know, you notice he would block a shot. And what I noticed that the spurs were really good about diminishing the just sort of live ball situations where there's a 50, 50 ball, they can go get it. They, they just remove those because Wimby could be a little bit vulnerable. And when you have, you know, a Rudy Gobert back there and you know, a Nas Reed and a Julius Randall, they were, they were just doing a really good job about that. And the other way that they did it is they kind of used their physicality against them in that Castle, he did this a little bit the first game. Castle was just like, all right, Jade McDaniels, who's kind of his equal in a lot of different ways like that they're very similar in the way that they pressure the ball with their lanky Fallon ass selves, but he was just like, I'm just gonna, you're, I'm gonna drive it at your chest every single time. And, and it really neutralized him and that takes another ball handler off the floor. Granted, McDaniel, Mcdaniels has come a long way, but they, I thought overall they were like, you know, we're not a punching bag in this, in this matchup. And I think they utilize a lot of their weapons at their disposal really, really well in this game.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I thought that driving was just comprehensive too. Like, it was a lot of Castle, but it was also a lot of heartbreak. Was Keldon Johnson in transition, sometimes for good, sometimes for ill. It was also Wemby putting the ball on the floor and attacking at closer range in ways that he clearly needed to adapt coming out of game one. I, I, I think there's something to the fact that in these games, in these like playoff environments, you can win by like exploiting a team's weakness. And in theory, if you're Victor Webanyama and you can shoot over the top of Julius Randall or you're going against Rudy Gobert in a drop, a three is like a good shot to punish a weakness for the Wolves. But sometimes the greater psychological play is to beat them at what they're good at and to like go through those guys chests inside and still convert. I think he was five of eight and like on non threes in this game, like that's such a dispiriting thing for a team like Minnesota that has its physicality, that thrives on that physicality and they can't even leverage it to stop this guy that they're supposed to be able to at least make things difficult for.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, this reminded me a lot of Game 4 against Portland. We're in that first half. Wemby was like relegated to being a jump shooter and he seemed like he was fine with it because he has had so much success doing that. But when it wasn't going, you could see the clear like effort by the spurs and everybody else to be like, let's get him at the basket. Let's make sure we're running things in order to do that. And it just felt like last game he needed to be reminded of that. And so there was a much more concerted effort to be just like the plug and play giant center who could do so much damage just by being at the basket in this one. He took a lot of threes in this one. Ultimately he was 2 for 7. But throughout the playoffs, so he had five threes in the first game against Portland, but since then, including tonight, he's made four total. It's just like the shot just isn't there for him. I wonder if the fatigue is catching up to him. Obviously these are not only longer minutes, but they're also harder minutes. He only had to play 26 tonight, so maybe over time he gets that back. But to me, this playoffs is just a recognition of when Wemby is the biggest center on the court. There's still so much good to unearth. We can get to the higher level stuff down the road here, but right now in the base level, it's still pretty good to swing playoff games well,

[J. Kyle Mann]

especially when he's making those initial statements like Kyle mentioned, where you come out and you have a historic number of blocks in game one and then in game two. I agree with you on your read, Kyle, that he kind of scaled things back and played a little more cautiously, but it's in the back of every Timberwolf's mind that he's going to be chasing after those things. And so you've already kind of affected the way that they play. And he can do the same thing on offense and we saw him do the same thing on offense where you see like the Wolves overall bending in his direction even when he's not aggressively attacking the basket. And that opens up lanes for Castle and Harper and everybody else. So like the downstream effects from Wimy are just like so profound every time, every second he's on the floor. It's why he was one of the most dominant regular season players despite not even playing 30 minutes a game. So I fully expect that to continue. But jv, I think you're right to identify just the difficulty of these minutes and the toll that those take on everyone involved. It's. It's one of the tests that he's going to have to figure out how to pass.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, he was kind of pulling the pull up threes out in this game. I thought as more of a cherry, you know, on top of the ass whooping Sunday. And I just was, I was holding My breath a little bit like you really? Because he took a couple back to back that just front rimmed, which could be a result of him being tired or whatever it was. But he seemed pretty insistent on getting some in there and just kind of defiantly being like, no, I can shoot threes. I'm not going to let this, like, because there is a thing with shooting where if you start to let the, the hesitation or the doubt creep in there, you know, it's, it's good to just kind of keep shooting, have a short memory, keep going. But yeah, overall, like, you know, early in the game they established whether or not you mentioned his, him, you know, not even having the ball. He, he doesn't have to have the ball. Like, his roller gravity is so crazy. They did it a couple times where it was like a, he was in a handoff and they just kind of got Fox moving towards the rim, which Fox played better. Not perfect, but a lot better. This game had a few really big plays, but I, I, I thought just establishing him getting towards the basket was big and just less settling because he had like a crazy two for one, that crazy two for one three he took in the last game that was in transition with like no one ahead of him. I was just like, we gotta, we gotta shift it a little bit. And he, and he did.

[Rob Mahoney]

I worry on the Wolves end of this. On the one side, you could say, well, now they're probably expecting the pressure. If the spurs were this successful, they'll probably do the same thing in the next game. On the other hand, like, where are the counters if your primary guys are going to be hurt and let's say probably going to be dealing this for a while, IO might not play in the next one. This is where, like, I think you start to feel the Dante loss because he is like not only just another ball handler, but someone who could read like, these sorts of things and work their way out of like two coming at him. Like, I thought Mike Conley played pretty poorly. Unfortunately, he probably shouldn't be in these sorts of situations where not only like, he's playing heavy minutes, but they seem like they look to him to do that. Like the airball that he just kind of farted out there was like, oof. Like, it's one of those where it's like, this is what we have left there. And so I don't know, like, if you, if you relegate them to like a big stodgy team, I think a swarming sort of defense like the spurs have, are going to like, make it difficult for you.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Just don't blame Mike Conley for this. No, he's just out here trying to blame. He's showing up, trying to provide sage advice, and you're, you know, discrediting his farting up threes. Like when you get older, lose control of some of these physical reactions to things, you know, it's just a part of you just.

[Justin Ferrier]

You uncontrollably fart as you get older. That's what I'm saying. The deal, 1, 1 for 4, minus 10. In this game, he had one play where he. He had a really clever old man move on. On Dylan because Harper, they were attacking him, and Harper was like, all right, I'm. I'm going to take old man of the rim here. And I think it was kind of a lefty anticipating a lefty thing where he had it in his right hand and you could see Harper setting him up to go back to his left hand, and Conley was like, I know exactly what you're going to do. And he just back tapped it. But that was like. And that was in the momentum of last game, where I was just like, you know, Conley's back, baby. We're getting some old people are still viable. Great. This is awesome. And. And it just kind of didn't go anywhere.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, look, in game the four of seven from three in game one was never going to be the baseline for this series. And so, all told, between the two games, had one really good one. Had one where he showed his age a little bit. And I think you're right, Justin. It's like this is the reality of the roster, right? Is you do have to lean on guys like Mike Conley. You do have to rely on Terence Shannon being purely explosive to have any movement and drive to your offense whatsoever. And he's able to provide that in fits and starts. It's just he was on the bench for the vast majority of the season for a reason. Like, he's a good contributing player, and we've seen him moments. No, I'm talking about Shannon, not Mike Conley.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, but like, Mike Conley on top of that, got traded and made his way back here, and here he is playing critical minutes in a playoff game.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, because if you love something, you set it free, and if it comes back, it's meant to be. I guess. I don't. I. I regret the rhyme, but this is where we end up, I think, honestly, the most avoidable things in terms of adjustment, and this isn't like a sexy tactical decision, but Kyle mentioned Jade McDaniel's foul trouble. Like, he just cannot be in foul trouble in this series. He's too important to them offensively as much as anything to have like some variation on the floor where it's not just Julius Randall, Bully Ball and Taryn Shannon having a quick first step. Like there needs to be a mid range improvisational option. And I think Jaden has proven himself to be pretty critical in that way and he just cannot play himself off the floor.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess the one saving grace is this was such a, like a fucking knockout performance. Like Devin Vassell was pre jumping his jumper, like an alley Oop.

[J. Kyle Mann]

3.

[Justin Ferrier]

Derek White's like the only other person that I can think of that does that or has done that. The. I mean, that was so wild. It was because it was no dip also.

[J. Kyle Mann]

So you like dip, right?

[Justin Ferrier]

He.

[Rob Mahoney]

So if you're doing aerial tricks, like at a certain point, maybe you're like, this is just not our night. Like, this is just such an outlier performance that it's easier to move on from it. But I'm really scraping for, for any sort of light here.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, look, the spurs were sensational every possible way. And there was a three minute stretch, I think, in the cameras, the late second or early third quarter where it felt like Dylan Harper had seen the face of God. And it was just like every single play that was happening on the court was Dylan Harper in some way. It was like Duncan transition, full court assist to Stefan Castle, ripped Anthony Edwards, got out for like a pull up three, ripped Anthony Edwards again, and then kicked it out for a definitive cell dunk. It was just like so many guys on their team have the power to do stuff like this in concentrated doses where you even saw like Julian Shampen just catch a heater after not making a shot all night. And then five minutes, he just goes on a run all on his own. And they're, they're a stacked team. They're one of the most talented in the league. They're here for a reason. And, you know, faded as they are to be one of the most like

[Rob Mahoney]

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[J. Kyle Mann]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Rob Mahoney]

So fifth straight win for your New York Knickerbockers. You seem like we're going to leave them for dead about a month ago, but here they are probably the hottest team other than the Thunder in the entire league. So Embiid goes out, takes a little air out of the game, but then Mitchell Robinson goes out with the illness and then cat's like, huh, this is nice. I should get into foul trouble and make a bunch of dumb ones early. And so he is limited early on there, but ultimately it came down to executions on the stretch and unfortunately Maxi kind of like tapered off in part because they played him literally 47 minutes. He only missed one minute and they struggled mightily in that one minute we should mention. But Brunson, like, he executes. This is what he does. And it just felt like that was the difference.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think that's a little, a little kind to Brunson given the way the fourth quarter of this game went in which it was just two teams both throwing rocks. Like, it's not like the Knicks covered themselves in glory in the fourth quarter. They just overall, I think had a little bit more to work with.

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, it was just like shot making, I mean, kind of was the thing that ended up saving them at the very end of the game because it felt like Philly was, you know, piecing together offense and it kind of at times felt like they should have been ahead by more. But you know, the Knicks were just of winning the points in the paint and the second chance and the transition stuff, it was an interesting, it was an interesting stew of brilliant moments from Maxi. Whereas, you know, the way the Knicks roster as we've talked about, they don't really have their connectivity is in that 2, 3, 4 switchability strength that they have. Another interesting thing is this, in this roster in this series now, we don't really have any rim protectors, which is an interesting kind of flip side from the Spurs Wolves things where we have two elite ones.

[J. Kyle Mann]

But well, they, even the ones that were there all fouled themselves out of this game. Like a dumb. Bona has reached KEDA levels of just like uncontrollable fouling coin there where Bona

[Justin Ferrier]

Bona was incredibly just like creating possessions and stuff like that and wreaking havoc, but could not catch the ball, could not be trusted to make a decision. Just a turnover machine. And it really hurt Philly well, it

[Rob Mahoney]

was interesting because the Sixers found something late there with Barlow, at the very least that allowed them to stay small.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it was fine. But I was constantly wondering to myself, if you're going to go that far, why not go a little bit farther? I clearly they were worried about OG because as soon as he goes out, we should talk about that later because he might be hurt here. That's when they flipped on the full small ball with just the front court of Uber and Paul George. And I was like, if you're going to really, like, ratchet it up here, trying to get back into the flow, because they shot the hell out of the ball in the first half and then in the second half, it just didn't seem like they had the same sort of pixie dust. Like, I was like, why not just lean into that a little bit more? Because there's a minute left and they were already down by so much. They didn't have, like, enough time to claw their way back in there. I was just like, if you're going to be small, like, just go full on and really play into the matchup. Because, like, with. I guess they were just afraid of OG in that situation. I don't know. What did you guys think?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think they're a little afraid of OG and also it's just like, I think a rebounding problem. Like, if you're relying on Paul George to be your only kind of dedicated rebounder on the floor, that's tough. Like, you're already small in the backcourt. Uber is really come and go and like a pure effort rebounder, which is nice. But I think Barlo actually does genuinely help you with stuff like that. And, and this is where I was kind of confused by the Knicks process because I thought they played a really good game. There's plenty of guys on the roster worthy of praise, including Jalen Brunson. But the fact that their offense devolved in the fourth quarter into Brunson picking on Barlo one on one, possession after possession after possession, when, I mean, we can go back and look at kind of what those possessions turned up, it didn't feel all that productive. It didn't feel all that successful. Brunson did pull some, like, rabbits out of his hat, but, like, that's not a great premise when all game long, Carl Anthony Towns is working the high post and you're getting, like, great stuff out of it. I. I just don't know why they, like, swerved so hard into this other direction.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah. And it. This was, this was A big series for scoring tilted small guards. I was having that. I was with the NBA draft brain. I was thinking about that as we were watching this. But yeah, it seemed like if you're Philly, I, I was watching that thinking like, I'm fine with this. You know, I'm fine with them trying to just kind of figure out a way to shoot over this 6, 9 guy. I. Yeah, whenever. Whenever Barlow came in, it definitely seemed like a, you know, something was, something was discovered here. But if Robinson is going to be in there, it just seems like, and I don't know what the timetable is, is on him getting back in this context in this small ball kind of way that they were playing it. It was an interesting lineup. But next time when New York has some time to prepare for it and if Mitchell's there, it seems like it's probably going to be just sort of a momentary, you know, advantage that they discovered. I don't know if it's long lasting.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think Rob's being a little harsh on Brunson. This is just like, this is kind of what he does. Like, this is what the Knicks do consistently. And I do think Towns, despite starting very fast and like watching him realize that like he could take Andre Drummond off the dribble whenever he wanted, but still, like not being able to find his balance. He was basically like stumbling into the rim. Like time after a time. It was almost like watching a. Like a polar bear on ice skates. A lot of the time there you're just like, I don't know what's gonna.

[Justin Ferrier]

Traveled on one of those, didn't he? It's really. I didn't rewatch it, but it was just like. And the foul looked like it came after he like stumbled. I was just like, what are we doing here? That was, that seemed a little obvious,

[Rob Mahoney]

but he was a little. Yeah, he kind of like he had his moment, but then it kind of got away from him. And then I think he was worried about foul trouble. And like, this is just what the Knicks do. They just, they shovel at the Brunson and he makes something happen. And so like, I don't know. I was fine with like the overall process down the stretch there, especially because Maxi was like, Max was pretty loose with it. He had six turnovers in this game. He mentioned that apparently, like, he hurt his pinky and apparently that's the same one he sprained earlier in the year there. But like in the second half for Max, he had three field goals and three turnovers total. Just didn't have it in the same way that Brunson, despite being a little iffy at times, like, he had more of it, that's really what it came down to. He just had more of this stuff than Max. He had it downstretch.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I completely agree with that part. And, like, I'm only harsh on Brunson in this particular respect. And I'm talking about the fourth quarter alone because I thought the rest of the time he played a really great, really smart game. And so I was just. It's less about who he is as a player, who the Knicks are as an offensive team, and more you had all this other stuff going. And I think this is a critical part of why they were a little fresher down the stretch is so much of what they were running was when Cat was on the floor, which, as we noted, he basically fouled himself out of the entire second quarter. So that's kind of in its own category. But they were able to run all this off ball stuff by having Brunson off ball attract a ton of attention. And how many times in this game do we see OG cut behind that action for, like, a completely uncontested dunk, or Mikhail Bridges step in from the weak side into a really clean look? Like they had a lot of that stuff going. And it was all based off the fact that the Sixers had to overreact to every time Jalen Brunson made a cut. It's like, that's kind of what I wanted more of. And I think in the end, it's part of the reason why the Knicks felt a little fresher. Not just because Tyrese Maxey was being run into the ground, but he had to do all that stuff versus the Knicks have all this flexibility. Like, they can just give the ball to Jalen Brunson. They can work through Cat when he's on the floor. They can selectively target mismatches, depending on what else they have going at a given point in time. Like, they just have a more flexible group of actual creators right now. And then you look at the Sixers and, like, even someone like Paul George, who had a really good shooting game, you can't just, like, ask him to go one on one against OG and an OB and Josh Hart, because he tried it and it doesn't work, and it's not going to work. And that's where Joel Embiid is. I mean, missed most of all in a matchup like this one.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, PG was cracking me up because he was basically just a stretch four out there, effectively because he he, you know, they tried some split stuff with him as the fulcrum, but he was just kind of. His back was against the wall and he would just like, creatively find ways to, you know, quickly get a shot. And. And the, you know, the Sixers were good about, like, quickly getting into their offense and.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yes.

[Justin Ferrier]

And finding ways to do that. But, you know, I kind of wonder at times if you all see any kind of similarity between this idea of what Brunson can do and we see these glimpses of like, okay, you know, Cat is playing in the high post and there's like split action and they caught Maxi and Vijay, I think, two or three different times on miscommunications where, you know, they didn't read the screens right. And it's. I'm sure they'll try to sort that kind of stuff out, but it kind of reminds me of like, the idea that we had of like, Mitchell whenever he came to Cleveland and then Atkinson comes and we're like, okay, we're going to see a little bit more like, kind of off ball action. It's like. It makes me wonder if how much of that is just kind of role rigidity where it's like Brunson does. Is it that Brunson doesn't want to play that way? Is it that, like, Cat's not in the game consistently and they can't do or. I. I'm trying to figure out why it is that we only see glimpses of it because it makes so much sense. Like, because when Brunson, at 6 foot 1, amazing as he is, and as. As much milk as he can turn into butter on a moment's notice with his shot making. It's like, is butter better? It makes you. It makes you wonder. It makes you wonder how. Why we don't see more of it more consistently. Because you're right, it's like, it's more dynamic. It's maddening to play against, and it doesn't lean so much on him like pulling miracle rabbits out of his hat.

[Rob Mahoney]

So what are the dairy rankings like butter, the pinnacle of milk.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, not to put words in your mouth, Kyle, but I think the point is not necessarily the butter is better, but just that Jalen Brunson is going to churn it of what you wanted in the first place.

[Justin Ferrier]

I know we're talking Sixers here, too, but it's all about the process. You know, it's really. That's what we're talking about. It's not necessarily the ones better than the other, but I'm a big. You know, I mean, I like dairy. You know, I'm not. I'm not an oat milk guy. I was going to say in terms of we go to milks and things like that. I'm like sour cream, you know, I don't know if you guys are into yogurt, but Huge Cheese guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Love yogurt.

[Justin Ferrier]

Huge cheese guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Huge cheese guy. Cheese is obviously great. Like, we're not. You're not going to find someone who's going to fight against cheese.

[Justin Ferrier]

Who the hell doesn't like cheese?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Come on, man. That's what I'm saying. Is New York the new Cream City? Should we move it? Should we just rip it from Milwaukee's cold dead hands?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not going to touch that. Okay, well, perhaps, like what we're. Maybe we're focusing more on Brunson and less on the fact that OG has been playing out of his mind offensively. Like, this is the first game I think I've seen him miss, like, half of over half of his threes. He's just been on a completely other level. And I think we have to give Anne Hathaway credit here because she clearly had an eye for talent. She knew which Knicks were. Were really critical to the championship run. I just, like, this entire game, I was flashing back to the OG trade to begin with, which I think people have widely regarded as a success just considering what they gave up. But the fact that they had to pay him so luxuriously after the fact. They were basically boxing themselves into overpaying him at that point. But at this point, like, kind of the second guy there, like, if anything might be like, the linchpin to, like, the success of everything that's happening right now.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think if. If you have ever been in an argument in which you were arguing that OG Anunoby is overpaid based on anything other than him being hurt on a somewhat frequent basis.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, don't do the thing where you just overestimate that. That contract wasn't like, widely just like, poked holes in. I would say if he. He got paid handsomely. When at the time, like, do you

[J. Kyle Mann]

know why he got paid handsomely, Justin? Because he's fucking good. He's a good player who shows up in the playoffs. Like, why would you be mad about a guy like that getting paid? I'm not. I'm not disagreeing that people may have poked. I'm saying if you were among the people doing the poke, you need to look inward.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's easy to say things like that. Like, this guy shouldn't get like, but just can't pay so many guys. Like, it's more complicated than I think you're giving it credit for, but, like, sure, yes, it has been a great deal for the Knicks.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think when you say, go, we'll finish.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Rob, I was just going to say, if you. At the point where you have to make financial concessions in the building of a team, to me it's much more about how much Carl Anthony Towns makes for as incredible as he's been on this run, like, that is a flawed player even at his best, that has games like this that will be sometimes infuriating and will also be wildly talented. OG is like, not a, like, not a wide variance guy. Like, he's pretty metronomic in terms of what he gives you on defense. He. He's clearly on a different level offensively right now, but has all of this at his disposal. It's just so much bigger and stronger and more dangerous than so many wings in the league. And so all my. My only point is, like, he's never been a guy I worry about when he plays. And this is kind of one of the reasons why is he's. He's just incredibly difficult to take out of a game and he will almost always neutralize someone who's critical to your team.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, well, you're saying he's the number two guy. Justin, I was curious. I mean, you mean on offense? I mean, if you're talking offensive defense, yeah. I mean, I think that's fair. But it's like, yeah, I mean, he's. He. So much of what he does extremely well, and so much of what appears to be metronomic is because it's responding to the metronomic kind of nature of what Brunson does, like, in this game, like, in transition. I was going to, like, throw a quick criticism for, you know, Kelly Oubre got some, you know, praise on the broadcast for his. For his defense. He had to. I kind of, personally, I want to rewatch this, but I kind of got the impression that he. He had some transition defensive lapses that were just straight up. I'm looking at Brunson and OG is. That's where the, like, OG responsive kind of offensive skill set is going to hurt you because it's always there. He always gives those little bits of effort and he's. He doesn't really dog it ever on that kind of stuff. So that's when you say it's hard to take him away. I think that's why, number one, he Makes shots, but he's just. He's fucking huge when he goes to the basket. Like, I can't imagine taking a bump to the chest from that dude. But he can also sit down and guard. He sat down and guarded Tyrese Maxey for like. He just has a real incredible combination of just solid frame and, you know, versatility in the way that he moves. But I don't know, is he their number two guy overall, do you all think? I don't even.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't even know where we're discussing it.

[J. Kyle Mann]

We're mostly just saying OG is good.

[Justin Ferrier]

We're appraising OG here because you want to talk about his. That's built into his contract discussion.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just took umbrage with. With Rob's quibble because he was doing the thing where he was just like, what's I doing? An Instagram married couple?

[Justin Ferrier]

You know, you know his moves, you know his argument moves. You were just like, don't do that shit. Come on. All I said was offer the watch.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Controversial take. Possible about. Come on.

[Justin Ferrier]

You're doing the thing where I do

[Rob Mahoney]

the thing and you do the thing.

[Justin Ferrier]

Don't. Let's not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just don't.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just don't. No. Anything else from this one? What's like, I guess if you're the Sixers.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And beat is out. What. What's our move here? Like, do we need a move or do we think like this small ball? Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. I mean, I think the small ball stuff helps, but it just helps much less when Mitchell Robinson is out there. And we should expect that he's going to be back in the series pretty soon. I think what they need to figure out more than anything is how to get Maxi some relief in the middle of this game. You're going to want him out there as your closer. A lot of offense without Embiid is going to be driven through him. That makes sense. But I think a huge part of the problem was he was so fatigued by the end that most of the fourth quarter was either Maxi getting doubled, not unlike Anthony Edwards, like, pretty aggressive trapping and throwing a lot of bodies at him. Then he would have to pass out to various role playing Sixers who would have to do more than they are qualified to do. And you saw a bunch of like, turnovers and mistakes happening because of that, or he was trying to force the issue to beat the double and turning the ball over himself. And so it's like, how do you get Maxi in particular to the point in the game that by the end he's not running on fumes. He's not making those, like, mental mistakes. He's not making those turnovers. And I like, that's where you would hope someone like Paul George would be able to step into some more creation, but we've talked about the difficulties of that. Maybe that's VJ Edgecomb's opportunity to show a little bit more on ball because right now he's like purely a supplementary player. I just don't know that any of these are good solutions against a Knicks team that is been really good defensively in its own right and seems to have answers for all of these options.

[Justin Ferrier]

Paul George seems like the only real option here because, you know, as I was joking about him kind of with his back against the wall creating offense. You're, you're right when you're talking about every time he tried to drive, it just didn't go super well. I was just like, you could try to put him in kind of isolation, you know, spots on the floor, but I don't know how much of an advantage that is because in, you know, in kind of short, short range, you know, make a quick move kind of stuff, it's just like the Knicks have answers for that. That's playing right into their strength. So. So it's hard to figure out. And you know, we were, we were joking about, you know, the Wolves like being pressured. They had some success tonight. I mean, Philly did make some offense at when they, when they got pressured, but you know, when they were bringing two to the ball and had some luck with that. But it's just like maybe you figure out a way to get pg some, some, some touches so that he can create without having to move a ton and maybe get him on some mismatches and then I don't know what is, what does Vijay have, I guess is another question because I don't know. I don't know how ready Vijay is to be. To be, you know, to have his possessions and reps throttled up or what would make the most sense for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, this is probably the worst position to be in if you're the Sixers, if only because the bench was always going to be shaky coming into this series and Nick Nurse in particular doesn't like to dig into it all that much to begin with. And so to have to dip into it feels like the worst possible scenario because you're just digging into guys who just, just don't have what they need. And so the fact that the Knicks even could steal minutes for guys like Clarkson and Shame I don't think they played particularly well. The bench wasn't great overall. But like, it is weird that the Knicks are the team like spreading it around and saving some of their guys, at least for those like last quarter pushes. And so I guess credit to Mike Brown because this would be the difference between a Tibbs team and what he's doing. Like, Tibbs would probably play six guys. Yeah. In this scenario, I don't think that's, that's going to work.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Like, Landry Shamba didn't score a point in this game. I don't know that he was individually like massively effective, but he was representative of something that I thought was actually pretty important for the Knicks, which was Mike Brown deciding, oh wait, we just don't have to play Ariel Hook po at all if we don't want to. Like the Sixers aren't big enough to demand it. And that small ball lineup for the Knicks I thought was actually pretty good. So you want to play Mitchell Robinson when he's available. You want to play Carl Anthony Towns when he's not in foul trouble. But just even knowing that if everything goes to in this series, you still have the best center on the floor and his name is OG Anunoby. Well, I guess maybe that's up for grabs now too. But that should be a security blanket if OG is able to go.

[Justin Ferrier]

Carl had a very funny moment in this game where he committed a foul where I think it was maxi coming over a screen where Carl just had his like legs tripoded out. And you were the play. He like tripped him and then Carl like immediately put his legs together like skinny, like a toothpick. Like, you know, playing, playing innocent. It was just like, like that play to me just encapsulated so much. It was like, dude, we all saw what you did. Like what? And then he's going back to the bench like protesting it. It just. He's a mess, man, he cracks me up with that. He just really teeters back and forth between like nobody can guard this guy and then especially nobody in the Sixers. And then, and then stuff like that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Was that the foul that sent him to the bench where you could audibly hear him yelling no Mike. Over and over to not take him out of the game. And yet he took him out of the game.

[Justin Ferrier]

That might have been what he was yelling, but yeah, because the camera followed him. But he's good for one of those a game.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I feel like easily.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will say, despite Towns having some pretty worrisome moments, the whole broom incidents where he just straight up alpha Andre Drummond. Yeah, I don't think we saw Drummond after that. He had four fouls and he just like never came back from it. I think it was actually because of the shame that Childs gets the broom all of a sudden, pokes it up. You got Timothee Chalamet flexing on him in that weird like very tight leather coat. I was like, that's hard to come back from emotionally.

[J. Kyle Mann]

That's the turning point of the series. You think the response is we get

[Justin Ferrier]

Janai broom out there, we get our own broom. That's the answer for the Sixers. I think that's what we do.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like it. All right, why don't we take a break. We come back, talk about some of these other series. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are here and everything's on the line. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings the game. And tonight is your shot to boost your bet. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger and FanDuel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. Lock in your bets, boost your odds and make the playoffs. Pay off with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to get started. FanDuel play your game 21 select states or 18 DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInCenetic all right, we got two more series on the docket. So as you're listening to this, on Thursdays you'll get another matchup of Cavs, Pistons and Lakers Thunder. We're going to go around the horn and say one thing, that we're kind of just percolating on each of these series. Rob, do you want to kick us off with Cavs Pistons?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I would love to. I come kind of to Barry, Evan Mobley. Barry is strong, I would say. In particular, I was really hoping at this point in Evan Mobley's career that the minutes of the five would just feel more sustainable and more stable. And here in the playoffs, not just in the second round, but even in the first round, it is not felt that way. And I see no greater evidence of that fact than the continued existence of Thomas Bryant in the Cavaliers rotation. Like every minute he plays is an indictment on Evan Mobley, because that is Kenny Atkinson saying, we don't trust you to do this. We don't believe you can do it. And you look out broadly over the playoffs, and The Cavs are negative 9 net rating with Mobley at the 5 without Jared Allen. So it kind of is what it is, and I just wish it can come to this.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah. I mean, you took mine. I think the hinging kind of thing. I would. To take it even deeper here. Is that Bickerstaff. I don't know if this is being talked about enough, is that, like, Bickerstaff has incredibly deep familiarity with Mobley, not only just from them playing each other, but this is a dude that he tried to motivate to be who we all want him to be. That was kind of his thing. And he lost his job probably largely because this didn't happen. And he knows if he. If any coach were prepared to stress Evan Mobley and who we. Who he might be or where. Where the stress points for that are, it's Bickerstaff. And he has, you know, the. You know, the weapon with the. With the. With Durin here. Just. He knows what to do. And it's. You're absolutely right. There was a moment where, like, Thomas Bryant, like, eagerly shot a pick and pop three, and I was like, we're doing this now. He shot those fairly well this year. But, yeah, that's a huge indictment on Mobley. I'd. I just don't know if the Bicker Steph Mobley thing's been talked about enough. Maybe it has, but I haven't.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Revenge series. You got me fired.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Can you imagine?

[Justin Ferrier]

Well, no. I mean, just like this is. Can you imagine the chip that Bickerstaff must have going into this? I'd be. Yeah. Raring to go.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, and you're right. It's like, on a micro level, I mean, you know, everything about, like, oh, if he turns this way, he leaves his dribble exposed. Oh, when he does this, he fades out of the game. Like, there's an incredible advantage in those things. And I think particularly for someone like Evan Mobley, who, ha. Like, so much of the battle is psychological with him. It's like, when is he being aggressive and why and how. Yeah, jb. JB would be particularly attuned to those trends.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yes, huge indictment on him not being able to play the five. But I did start to wonder to myself, did we go too far in that direction where we thought that that was going to be his Inevitable conclusion that he would be kind of more of a skilled five who those still minutes from. Like maybe they'll be in a rotation with Alan whatsoever. But like he bulked up so much over the off season and even in a match now out there, I'm like, actually doesn't look that big in comparison to some of these other bigs that are out there. Like is he just a 4? And actually we went too far in the other direction and because he doesn't have the aggressiveness and the physicality to play against big fives and there are a lot of them in the East. Like is he just the four at this point and should he just actually go back to shooting more jumpers and making sure that he could be a three point shooter?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, I mean the good news on that is that the league as a whole is pretty accommodating of those that style of four, right? It's not a purely stretch four league anymore. Like it's not an either or thing. I think the hope is not even that he would become a full time five, but that he would be able to do it at a high level for at least select stretches, right? Like give the Cavs a version of a death lineup kind of intensity and space. But that's just not in the cards for this series. And I think you're seeing the difficulties when you don't have that particular card to play and you have to throw Thomas Bryant out there, what it's doing for the rest of the offense. Then you're like, you're not getting the benefits of playing big because Thomas Bryant is Thomas Bryant, no offense. But you're also not getting the spacing that comes with getting more shooters on the floor.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think that a lot of these things are really illustrating the idea that, you know, in, in series like styles make fights and I think, you know, the teams that go the furthest as, as I've said it, like having buttons to push. Like we were talking about Phillies, you know, already kind of running out of them as we watched in game two and then in round one. It's just funny how me personally, when we were like predicting like who could win the east, you know, I feel like I'm on the, on the track to eating my words by acting like Detroit was going to have trouble. But you know, they were on the ropes because Orlando was a very like play through you physical kind of mirrored them in some ways. Whereas like, I think part of the problem for Cleveland and the reason that we haven't seen some of their players pop Is that like Harden's not really the same Pepe. He doesn't get in the rim, you know, doesn't get to the basket the way that he did. You know, Mitchell, maybe there is a kind of a push and pull thing going on between Harden and Mitchell that we could maybe get into. But Mobley, I think is just kind of an avatar for. They are not. They are not that type of team. And I think that Detroit, they're not the same type of physical play through your chess team that Orlando is. And I think Detroit has a big advantage. And it's funny to me how in that first round I was very worried about Detroit. I watched that game, this game this morning again, and I was just like, I feel like Detroit is in a great position here because of the, the style contrast between these teams. And it's like they're going to stress Cleveland to. How hopeful are you all that Cleveland is going to be able to like, cobble together an answer for this? It's because. Because their identity seems like it's. It's going to cause them a lot of problems against Detroit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I'm glad you brought up Detroit there because that's kind of what I wanted to bring up there. It's like some of the role players and the surrounding talent just feels alive in a way that they weren't in that first series. I think Duncan Robinson trying to step to the Cavs and James Harden in particular was like, I don't think I saw him do that that much on like the Miami Heat, who claims to be the biggest, baddest team out there. And like, that's one thing, but Jenkins was just like a completely different player. The fact that like, perhaps there isn't as much size to contend with, like he looked completely unleashed offensively. His zip was back there and then he was just making every big play down the stretch defensively in between stuff, getting in front of them at the end of the game in order to get that final steal, like, if that's going to happen, if there's going to be more components to an offense, like they feel more versatile. Versatile and diverse in a way that, like in that first series it was like Kate and whatever else you could scrap together. Like, this feels like a more fleshed out sort of team. Like if they can continue to play that way. This seems like a tough one for, for the Cavs.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. I thought star Thompson played a good game and the decision to close with Dennis Jenkins instead of him was kind of a no brainer because Dennis was great and so, like, these are now the decisions that the, the Pistons are making are so many of our guys are hitting, so many of our guys feel viable. And granted, some of that is like a Game one thing, right? It's like we're going to throw Ron Holland into the mix and see what he can do. Especially with Kevin Herder still out with injury. It's like everyone is feeling out who can actually hold their ground in this series. It just feels like a lot of Pistons can hold their ground. And like, that's terrible news for the Cavs because if anything, they should be able to stress test Detroit's like, back end rotation to make some guys feel unplayable. And it just doesn't really feel like anybody's unplayable right now.

[Justin Ferrier]

Ron Holland was cracking me up. He came in here, he just like walked in and took over. He was like, okay, all right. Like when he hit that half court shot, you knew another one was going up, number one. But I'll. Yeah, I just think that it's, it's interesting to me that you were talking about the, the players popping like that. I think that's absolutely true. It seem, it seemed a lot less of, you know, the burden was on Cade. It seemed a lot less like we need Tobias to be like a miracle, kind of have like, you know, excellent shot making games. It just, it was pretty, it was pretty alarming for me watching that game. It made me wonder too, are we, is this more of a Jaylon Tyson series? Like, who are the guys that they can, that they can tap into that can kind of match the way that, that Detroit, you know, it's really, it's really going to stress, you know, how valid I think Cleveland's options are because, you know, if they do go forward, these are questions that they're going to probably want to have answered before they

[J. Kyle Mann]

do go forward if they're able to somehow. They've shuffled around their supporting wings so many times at this point, and yet Dean Wade is still here and it's still like, I want to be honest, like, probably still their best option to defend Cade Cunningham. He's just so unreliable offensively, even in the limited capacity that they rely on him. I think Jaylen Tyson should play more. I thought Keon Ellis looked like he might not be a great fit for this series, but some of that might just be, you know, the ups and downs of the Keon Ellis experience. Other than that, like, I, I mean, they need, they need shooting, right? So it's like someone among Sam Merrill and Dean Wade and Max Struse has to hit and has to be consistent. It has to be pulling and like Detroit's a really formidable defensive team. Like this stuff is easier said than done. But it just didn't feel like they had any of that movement going for them in part because a lot of their offense was like a limp James Harden drive that he would then pass out of. And it's like you just have to have more going on than that.

[Justin Ferrier]

He is grifting out there. Oh my goodness, grifting.

[Rob Mahoney]

It feels pretty. It feels more dire than it should be because it was only a 10 point loss that they were like in down the stretch there. But like this is a second apron team that went over the top in order to put all these options together in order to have things when other things don't work and just doesn't feel like any of the components really ever come up. Like it's glad. I'm glad to know that Keon Ellis is alive and healthy and like in good spirits. But like you're right, like didn't play particularly well. I wonder if the long layoff also contributed that because it just didn't seem like they had much interest in him in that first series. And so I'm like, you're right. It's like the Thomas Bryant, like what are we doing with Thomas Bryant and like all these wings coming in and out of there. And so the Cavs just like put a lot of emotional stress on you just trying to think through like what is going on here and what could they do. And so I don't, I don't know if I have it in me anymore. Maybe, maybe this is too much too soon. I always have to stop myself. This is one game and it could be different the next game, but it does feel like that with the cast because there's so much stakes riding on everything in every single game.

[J. Kyle Mann]

There are a lot of stakes. The Cavs are going to get their licks in. We are due for a Donovan Mitchell 42 point explosion. They're not going to get shut out of this series by any stretch. It just feels like Detroit has much more of an ability to dictate the terms of it. And I don't know where Cleveland finds that advantage, where they find the footing, where they're able to actually make the Pistons change something about what they're trying to execute. It just doesn't seem like Cleveland has that in them right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Ferrier]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Ferrier]

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[Rob Mahoney]

All right, want to flip to the next series?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So Thunder, Lakers. I'm not sure if JJ Redick has done the. This energy deep dive to come up with enough equations to where he. He finds out that they should have won the game. I don't know if you guys have.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, the. The expected field goal percentage was pretty high.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I don't think that mattered that much.

[J. Kyle Mann]

No, that's. That's tough. A tough place to find yourself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kyle, are you taking this personally? I didn't. I didn't mean to. I didn't mean for that.

[Justin Ferrier]

No. Am I supposed to feel bad about that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I know this is your corner.

[Justin Ferrier]

It's part of. It's part of my. It's part of my process. Justin. No. Yeah. This. What was it he mentioned? Predicted score? Is that what he said? I mentioned it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Something deeper than expected shooting percentage? Yeah, I think it was predictive shooting. I don't know.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Let me. Let me. Let me pull it up real quick. Let's. Let's get the facts.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think it was predicted.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It was expected score. Expected score based on shot quality.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Did that match.

[Justin Ferrier]

I mean, you thought. I mean, what?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not from Austin Reeves.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. How about this? In terms of shot quality? I was watching this game and watching as it unraveled and. And really, you know, like, the Lakers were in it for a lot of it, and then all of a sudden they just started losing grip on the rope and it just got yanked away from them very, very quickly. And I'm watching Jared McCain just get like, open three after open three after open three. And I thought the shot quality there was pretty good in terms of what the Thunder were able to generate late. And for me, what this hearkened was there was always this thing that we said about the Steph warriors about the mental endurance of, like, having to guard them over the course of an entire game. Right? Like, the focus you have to have to keep up with Steph and all that movement and all that action really takes a lot out of a team.

[Justin Ferrier]

It's the box from Dune, like, guarding him is the pain box.

[J. Kyle Mann]

You stick your hand in and you just have to hold on for dear life, I think. I think the Thunder have an inverted version of that where it's like all of the energy that you're expending on offense, trying to break them down over the course of an entire game just wears on you and wears on you and wears on you. And not only does that feed their turnover machine and get them going the other way, but then you got to go back and you got to guard these guys, and it's like by the fourth quarter, it's like, do you have the focus to not jump at the Shay pump fake? Do you have the energy to stick with Jared McCain on, like, the weird ghost screen? Apparently the Lakers don't because they just kind of like, imploded at a point in the game where it felt like if they could just hold on, maybe they could give themselves a chance. But I think that's part of the reason that Thunder feel overwhelming, both in the series and in general.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're right, though, because it's funny, because in that first half, I was like, man, the Thunder really struggling. But then when you look back over the course of, like, that full game and also in the first series, this is pretty much the arc of their wins, where it's like, it's a very much a slow bloodletting of these teams until they do wear them out. And so maybe this is just what the Thunder do and. But it is. I mean, I think it maps on to Chet and his, like, version of success, I think, where it's like, he never has, like, the big scoring performances, but you look back on it, it's like he's just so precise and dialed in on everything that he does. I think it's scary for everyone else if he marries that with, like, the volume that he got in this game. I worry with the Thunder that the foul drawing Merchant thing has become such a thing that they'll crack down on Shay a little too much. That's like a whole side thing. But I think the way out of that is clearly for Chet to be as big and bad as he was in this game. If he does this Entire series without JDub, that's the version that we all are so terrified of, that those big three can work in concert together and can really have a moment, can control a game, and at any time. And so that's the thing that I'm watching for this entire series, if it does go down this path. And the Lakers look overmatched in this one. But Chet was awesome in this game.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Chet was awesome and I mean, as far as the, the grifting goes with Shay and like we've talked it to death. Like it's a real thing. It's happening. We're all seeing it. He took three free throws in this game and they like one in a walk, you know, so it's like that's kind of already happening. This was like a worst case scenario from a foul calling perspective for the Thunder. And yet it still seemed pretty easy for them down the stretch and they were able to separate pretty cleanly.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, taking it's like to the, the bloodletting thing and going back to the warriors comparison is kind of interesting because they are sort of the inverse of it in that, you know, the warriors would just sort of like slowly, well, not even slowly at times, they would just barrage you. It kind of reminds me of, I don't know if you guys are big Dr. Mario fans. You play Dr. Mario.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Honestly, it was a little too advanced for my like 7 year old brain. I'm like, what is this? You know?

[Justin Ferrier]

Oh, I played it well in college. That was like my like just veg out, like just relax, play some Dr. Mario kind of thing. But if you're good at Dr. Mario, what you can do is you can slowly, you know, you can pass up simple, simple moves and sort of stack, you know, prepare for sort of an onslaught that would come at some point. And you know, if you get multiple combinations of vitamins to go away, it'll rain down, you know, you'll remember this. It'll rain down pieces.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's a tetrisy, pooyo candy, proto candy crushy kind of game.

[Justin Ferrier]

Right, right. It's, it's different than Tetris though. Well, I don't even remember you. You can rain down blocks that sabotage your opponent. What I'm saying is just that like OKC does that over the course of a game where it's like, okay, there are a few stacked up here and eventually it just gets support where you just can't, you can't do anything anymore because they're just wearing you down. And it's like, you know, Reeves using him as sort of the, the example for this. You know, he's 3 for 16, four turnovers coming back from the abductor strain you don't want to see. Okay. It's hard to play basketball with that injury period. But he, his separation just doesn't look good, you know, over the course of it. There's no like one matchup though for him to consistently be like, this is the dude that I'M going after because they just bring them in waves where he had A.J. mitchell, he had Casen, he had Alex Caruso, he had Chad on him at different points. That's not to mention, you know, do it. It's just like there's no place in the chain to pull on with them. And you gotta have a lot of ball handlers, and the Lakers just don't have it. And the one that they. They have one who's 41 years old, they have one that might come back that has a very sensitive hamstring. It's just like you're just in a tough situation if you're trying to. If you're trying to make offense work against this team.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's more my style. Just mowing down zombies. Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

A little spray and pray.

[Justin Ferrier]

I had a little.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Justin Ferrier]

I had a little. This is kind of off. This is kind of out of nowhere. I had a little. Because we were talking about 10. 10 foil sombrero. I was thinking about Austin Reeves today. I was like, if you go into this series or you come out of this series and you're looking at him and you're like, what? What do we offer this guy? Like, what? And you know, you. Are you just afraid of what I'm going to say here?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I was thinking about the Austin Reeves contract situation. Every day it feels like a wildly different debate. It's just like. It's such. It's such an erratic third rail that I don't even want to touch it.

[Justin Ferrier]

I just noticed today that Newark, Arkansas, where he is from, is less than two hours away from Memphis, who has a lot of cap space. And I don't know, I was just thinking about that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just throwing it out themselves. More money this postseason. Jalen Duran or Austin Reeves?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, both still have time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

You know, during.

[Justin Ferrier]

I think more for now with Reeves.

[J. Kyle Mann]

There's so much you could put on his injury situation, too. Like, Duran didn't have any excuses for the way he played in the first round until, like the very end when he finally showed a little bit of backbone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, Reeves is unrestricted. I think just the market is going to dictate his price regardless. And so the Lakers are probably boxed in. But you're right, like, hasn't looked good, hasn't been good.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Very tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, like, would you go to Memphis over. Over the Lakers?

[Justin Ferrier]

You were picking if the hotels improved? You know, I was considerate. That's what you're waiting for.

[Rob Mahoney]

The whole hotel thing is mind blowing to me, like, because there's that Other hotel, I think it's the Peabody that has the duck tour.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It does parade. Yeah.

[Justin Ferrier]

Isn't that like an old people staying there?

[Rob Mahoney]

The ducks are adorable.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, that's where the writers stay.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they could join us and look at.

[Justin Ferrier]

Isn't that one of those ones though that like they let you in with? It's like it's. It's older, but it's got a charm. You know, you get there and you're like, man, the carpet kind of is. Is that clean? You know, that kind of thing I got. I never picked a little places when I go to another city a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

But if you have your choice, shitty hotel or shitty hotel with ducks, you know where I'm going.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, here's the thing. The good news is if you take a free agent contract with the Memphis Grizzlies, you're not staying at any hotel. Right. Like at least in the. Could buy yourself a big ass house out there if you want.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I saw a license like sticker, like a bumper sticker the other day because Portland, let me tell you, loves their bumper stickers. Just a lot of comedic bumper stickers going on here.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Do you have one yourself yet?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I don't. I don't do that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

You don't coexist?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I don't cohabitate.

[Justin Ferrier]

Come on.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nothing like that. No co. There was one that says I like butt ducks and I can't not lie.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I like butt ducks.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like butt ducks instead of big butt. Wait, wait, no, I get the reference. Instead of I like I. Well, no, I think it's I like duck butts.

[Justin Ferrier]

At the bottom of this at 1:30 in the morning for me. Yeah, keep going, Dustin Duck.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like I'm stroking out right now. I like duck butts and I cannot lie. Okay, that was the joke. That was it.

[J. Kyle Mann]

There's no second line.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Justin Ferrier]

What is. What is the joke? Is it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it was a reference to the song and that's it. And it just replaced it with duck butts. That was it.

[Justin Ferrier]

I'm trying to incomprehension someone would.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why would you buy.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Why would you pay money for it? Why would you put it on your car? To represent you to the world. I.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's most of them. It's really like Spencer's Hot Topic coded where they're like, there's a joke here, but it's not funny. But someone has used it to represent them to all of humanity.

[Justin Ferrier]

Not really even a good play on words. It's like it does it kind of defies all.

[J. Kyle Mann]

There's no real pun. Just a weird way for you to soft launch the fact that you're putting this on your car. Like, were you just looking for our feedback?

[Rob Mahoney]

Or I could just like become a bumper sticker guy. I really think you should side business. Yeah, just I was marveling at that anyway. Maybe if I sold it better, maybe I got it right the first time, it would have been hilarious, but we'll never know.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I still thought it was pretty funny the way it turned out. Thank you very much.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, I can't really imagine that one going over well in any explanation, you know, form, but yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

What else you got from this series? Anything?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, I got mine. What was yours? Jv, what's your takeaway?

[Rob Mahoney]

Whose Chat. Chat, News chat.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, I think we've talked around it. Any. Any other notables from game one? Alex Crusoe. The ghost of the Lakers continues to haunt them.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you already hit yours is what you're saying.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh yeah, mine is like the, the mental fatigue, the. The warriors esque effect of the Thunder defense.

[Rob Mahoney]

I see Kyle. And we hit yours.

[Justin Ferrier]

I said everything I have to say about it. See, we all got, we all went around.

[Rob Mahoney]

We all hit all of them within the flow of the conversation.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Segues were too smooth, you know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, we could talk about Jalen Brown here, but I'm honestly like, I don't know if we really want to keep pushing it here, guys.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It is your favorite topic. I think we need to leave that to you. Do you want to talk about it just briefly?

[Rob Mahoney]

He was on another live stream in which he tried to clean up the previous live stream that he hit in which set off a firestorm, I think to the point where everyone in Boston started hitting the train machine pretty hard and I think like some quotes started coming out. Brad Stevens did his like, post season presser with the media where he alluded to some things that might have indicated, like they were going to be a little bit more aggressive than I think people were expecting. That's all over here. But I don't know, like, how are you guys feeling now? What, like 48 hours since we last talked about this, since the last live stream. Do you feel any better about his. His position with the Celtics? 1. And if you were in his position, knowing him, like, are you actually trying to work your way out of here or do you feel good about where you are right now?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think my primary concern, if I was Jalen Brown, was the three guys who stand behind me as I do my live stream. Like One of them needs to be there for quality control. One of them needs to be tapping you on the shoulder and be like, maybe don't say that part. Like. Or maybe. Maybe we cut to break here. Like, can those guys do anything? Can they contribute to the conversation?

[Justin Ferrier]

Can they ring a bell or something?

[J. Kyle Mann]

If you have to do a second live stream to correct and address the controversy from your first live stream, like, I think you've stepped in it a little bit.

[Justin Ferrier]

Do you explain and you're losing type situation? A little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, did you need the second live stream? Like, it seemed like it was a pretty brief, like, just clearing of the air.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if. Is he, like, trolling for. For clicks? Is Jaylen Brown the one reaching for clickbait is my question.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. Did you feel resentful of that accusation, Justin, that he was pointing his finger at the media and saying, look at these clickbaiting losers?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not really, no. Because we are kind of clickbaiting losers, if I'm being honest.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Can't argue with it, Mr. Briggs.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I just. I went through the scenario of, like, trying to figure out what his other options are, and I gotta be honest, I don't know if any of them are all that appealing for him. If we're assuming that, like, he is unhappy being not being the guy next year or that he just wants to run his own team, which I think is, like, not that big of a leap in logic considering, like, who he is, what we know him to think, and like, what he said even recently. I just don't know where the option would be. I think there is, like, if you want to talk Giannis Derby, do they get involved there? Are there three teamers? Atlanta makes some sense. That's, I think, a popular destination considering where they are in their trajectory and also like, that Jalen is from there. But I don't know if you're Jalen, like, or if you're the Hawks. I think, like, is Jalen and other Jalen, Jalen Johnson and whatever's left enough to take the step forward. To me, the Hawks, like, they project as a team that needs this draft pick and then another draft pick and probably another draft pick. So they could be good and like, like, like, really, really good in, like, two years. Not like we're a Jalen Brown away, especially if we give stuff away.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I think they might be, like a kind of player away, but I don't know that it's a Jalen Brown necessarily.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's.

[J. Kyle Mann]

He's very Similar, even within what he does to a lot of what they already have. The difference is he's a much better one on one creator. And so from that perspective, he'd be really useful in the way that CJ McCollum was useful, but he's much bigger and much stronger, much harder to take out and rock off his game. He would definitely help them. I think the. But the question with the Celtics and all these teams is like, are you. Is Boston really going to trade Jaylen Brown to a fellow Eastern Conference contender where they're going to have to potentially see Jaylen Brown in the playoffs for the foreseeable future? Is that something that they're really willing to do?

[Justin Ferrier]

And even if they want to, like you were saying, the. The number is just. It's a pretty. It's a pretty big thing to try to figure out. I mean, and it's. Who are the suitors that could go for that? I just don't. Yeah, if I'm Atlanta, I kind of think I sit with. I sit with this pick that we have coming, and I think that they're going to have the opportunity to draft a player, whether it's, you know, we don't have to rattle the names here, but Bobs and Dougnut, but whoever it is that comes in that can help them. I don't know that I would take a bite of what they have, take a bite out of what they have now for a guy like Jalen Brown, because I don't know, they probably need somebody that can kind of like create, score and spray kind of a thing, too, where it's like, I don't. I don't know that he would be the perfect fit, that I would make that type of move. When you initially went into this, I thought you said I've got to be Giannis, which I didn't know if that was, what, Freudian or, you know, I didn't know if that was a slip on your part, but we got to

[J. Kyle Mann]

be honest, we're the suitors.

[Justin Ferrier]

You got busy on the trade machine, Justin. We heard. Go ahead, out with it. Let's hear it. Go ahead.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going to delay this one because I don't want to foreground that because people are just going to get mad. Well, you said you didn't want him in the Eastern Conference, but I think the Sixers would have to look at it, if only to get off Paul George's contract. But I think you'd have to give up VJ and so pretty similar situation. Like, do we want to get Rid of the young up and coming guy for the guy who's established, which makes a ton of money and is going to be a tough fit. No. Right.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Don't do that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. Then you go with the olds like Kawhi or Kevin Durant and it's like, I think the Clippers would do that in order to set the clock back later. But like, are the Celtics, like the difference between Jalen Brown and Kawhi away from like making sure the next year or two at best is like a defined when if anything, they cleared all this cap space, so they aren't. Aren't defined by the next year or two. And so that doesn't make sense to me.

[J. Kyle Mann]

The Kevin Durant one, Katie, would be interesting. That'd be very funny too. Like the original sin of all of this. Like low key back rooming toxicity is strong. But like the murmuring about the Tatum Brown stuff was when they tried to trade him or talked about trading him for Kevin Durant in the first place. If it just culminates in that, it would be the objectively funniest possible outcome. I also just think it'd be a bad basketball decision for the Celtics. Like Kevin Durant cannot be the prime return of a Jaylen Brown trade. Jaylen Brown is really.

[Justin Ferrier]

They're not, they're not going to do. I mean, why would you do. I mean, it's. I feel like the, the market for Durant, which. That's a whole other discussion, is going to be even narrower for different reasons. Just because of what. Yeah. And also, do you think the, the Brown stuff lately? Is that going to affect, you know, the way people are seeing him, like his person? Are you, are you onboarding a personality that that is. Are they going to be happy? You know.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, he is more, a little bit more of a matter of taste than other stars. Like, there are some executives in the league who are just like definitively not Jalen Brown people just as far as, like his game, not even to say anything about him as a personality or a locker room presence. There's just like a bunch of people even still who just don't really believe in him as a primary guy. And so, so long as that's the case, the market's going to be narrow. So long as this contract is what it is, it's going to be difficult. Like, this is why we're getting into these one on one situations in which it's like, oh, the Celtics should never do that, but if they're going to do something, they're going to have to make a concession somewhere or accept a package that's a little less Jalen Brown for Star X and a little more like Jalen Brown for three good players.

[Rob Mahoney]

It really is like who has the space to turn their franchise over to a new face of the franchise. And those are all bad teams.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which he's not going to to willingly want to go and sign up for like you. I could give you the Bulls, I could give you the Nets, I can give you the Pelicans. But if you're those teams like, like why like. And he's not going to be the type of lift all boats that are player who's just gonna drag us by the scruff all the way to the top of the standings immediately. And so like why do that? So the Celtics would be like oh, Trey Murphy and stuff. I could see that being like a thing. Right. If there's enough stuff on attached to Murphy Murphy. But then it's like why? Why would the Pelicans want that? Which brings me to the last team on the list here. The Portland Trailblazers.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I've heard of them.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think the three way potential with Giannis, Celtics, Blazers being in the right spot. I think the Hawks and the Blazers are going to be the most interesting teams this off season. If only because they're at that like right moment where it's like oh, if we just do this one thing like we could really be in the mix here. And especially with Portland who has a lot riding on like the immediate being successful. I think it makes a little bit more sense. But like and you can get to the money pretty quickly. It's really like Jeremy Grant, Jaden Sharp and then picks and your picks are the Bucks picks. So it makes a natural bedfellow. Right. And so if you're doing three way, Celtics get Giannis, Blazers get Jalen and then the, the Bucks get their future back.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

At the very least there's a logic to it. The fit is like not perfect because I do think he butts up against Denny in ways that we've talked about in the past, but not as much as someone like a Shen Goon or a center that's like really going to add another non shooter to the mix.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't hate it.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's where I end up.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's not fully unreasonable for anyone involved. Like I, I could see how all three of those teams could kind of eventually get there. But the question is, is the market it going to impede that process at all? Like Milwaukee, based on all reported indications and very Public owner comments to this point. Seemed like they kind of want to finally get a resolution to this thing with Giannis. And so will the speed of the Jaylen Brown conversation and the speed of the Giannis conversation proceed in tandem to the point where they're both ready to be moved at the same time?

[Rob Mahoney]

That could be the very example.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, when do they meet sort of thing.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. The Giannis train leaves the Station A at 50 miles an hour, and the Jaylen Brown. You know, we can really sketch out the SAT problem if you want. I'm just a little worried about the logistics.

[Justin Ferrier]

Do you see Thanasis has a podcast?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. Finalysis.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

You're not listening to every episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

Brian Windhorse was on that one. Yeah.

[Justin Ferrier]

He had a sweatshirt that said analysis, and I was. I was just really reeling from that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, I will. I will wear one. I don't know that I would pay for a thanalysis sweatshirt, but I would wear it. You know, if. So if someone out there might be like, let's do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we get Spotify PR to, like, put you on a live show and you could just grab a bunch for us?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Does that even mean, like a live Finalis show?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, like, he brings you on.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gives you some free merch.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't think I have that kind of pull. I'm not a windy, you know,

[Rob Mahoney]

so. So no three way trade with the Blazers is what we're saying.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean, put it on the board, you know, we'll kick it around the room. We'll see what everybody thinks about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the takeaway is, like, doing the exercise. Like, I don't know where the option is. And typically, I think just status quo is the win in this sort of situation. He's best off with the Celtics. And if everyone's like, fine dealing with each other, that is actually the bigger concern. If people are just done with this whole dance, which seems to have been going on for so long, I think it makes the most sense. Just roll this back and try again. It's a very good team.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yes. They should do everything in their power to try to keep the team together and continue to add to it. But the Jaylen Brown quote, all kind of dancing around from his relive stream today, was, I love Boston. If it was up to me, that's in. That's in all caps. As far as we're concerned, I could play in Boston for the next 10 years. Very weird way. Very weird way to say that under the circumstances.

[Justin Ferrier]

Quitting. Yeah, that's some.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, let Me ask, let me ask you guys this as far as the, if it were up to me, part of this. Jaylen Brown has won a championship with the Celtics. He has been a career Celtic to this point. Does he have the accrued goodwill of the organization where if a perfect offer came up to one of these lottery bound teams to a bad team that Jalen Brown wouldn't want to go to, do you think Boston would still pull the trigger on it?

[Justin Ferrier]

Would they do that to him? I mean, like, would they be willing to do that? I'm sure, yes.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Would Brad Stevens do that?

[Justin Ferrier]

What's the most heartless thing Brad has done? I don't know if we, he. He's not as cold blooded as well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Ferrier]

Danny did that though, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Danny was Isaiah Thomas. This one has been more building on top of it's true. What was already established there. So there really hasn't been one, I don't think. So we're saying what would be the worst landing spot for Jalen or just

[J. Kyle Mann]

is Jalen Brown in the class of star who is so special to his organization that he gets a particular amount of input on where he goes, or is he a star who if he did request an out, could be potentially dealt anywhere? Like, which bucket do you think he falls into?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this ultimately is a discussion about Tatum and his health timeline. And if you think it would require another season of fits and starts, which by and large, like, he played until he didn't. And so I don't know if that's true, then I would consider that. But if you expect him to be reasonably healthy next year, then I'd don't do it. Yeah, but with Jalen, I think it's because he's such an odd fit on a lot of teams. I think you kind of have to take what you can get. And so I, I to your, to your question. I don't know if he like rises to that level and he also doesn't have the leverage like Giannis is going to have leverage with his contract. Yeah, like Jalen hasn't reached that point yet and so there really isn't much to, to work with on his end.

[J. Kyle Mann]

That's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

Lottery this weekend. Who you guys got? Is he like, who are your guys?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't even know, Kyle. Who should our guys be? Who should we be excited about?

[Justin Ferrier]

Let's do that next time. Let's see. Yeah. Or who your favorite team is? Is that what you, you gotta, you gotta.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who do we want to see jump up?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Who do we want?

[Rob Mahoney]

Warriors would be the most interesting one.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, I mean, that'd be. It would enrage a lot of people. I mean, I'm kind of. I'm kind of in the mind. I'd like to see one of these fan like. Like one of these fan bases that have suffered a lot. That's kind of where I typically lean towards the people. You know, I know the Wizards didn't cover themselves in glory or good karma with the. With the way they behave this year, but.

[J. Kyle Mann]

But the Kings, though, the ethical tanking Kings, could jump to number one. They could get a Bob's and Doug nut all their own.

[Justin Ferrier]

Yeah, it's true. Hope that happens for them.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kyle, you'll be there?

[Justin Ferrier]

I'm going to be there, yep. At the combine. So I'm not going to go to the. I'm not going to be able to go to the actual draft lottery, but Zach Low will be there.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Nice.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, well, we'll check in with you on Monday. You can give us all the sights and sounds of a bunch of white guys and slacks just whispering each other.

[Justin Ferrier]

Zips. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you have a quarter zip that you like, that you packed?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Iron pressed, steamed?

[Justin Ferrier]

I don't think I have any quarter zips, actually. No, I don't.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're missing out. Yeah, just a little bit of airflow going.

[J. Kyle Mann]

All right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Monday as per usual. Talk to you then. 21 plus impreson in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York, Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.