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- [00:00]
Justin
This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Slow and steady doesn't always win the race. Like when Phil Jackson really needed a shot in Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he just gave the ball to Kobe and let him cook. And that helped win the game. If you're looking to hire someone fast, use Indeed. Indeed. Sponsored jobs get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Speed up your hiring process right now with a 75 sponsored job credit at indeed.comringermba that's indeed.comringermba. terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [00:55]
Tyler Parker
Foreign.
- [00:59]
Justin
Hello and welcome to group chat and a special hello and welcome to our friends on YouTube. We got Rob Mahoney. We got the Okie in the house, Tyler Parker.
- [01:09]
Tyler Parker
And you.
- [01:09]
Justin
You came at the perfect time because what the just happened? The. The NBA Finals is tied because the Thunder just stole that game four from the Pacers in a very Pacer's way.
- [01:21]
Tyler Parker
No, as I. As I told you, I am sweating. I. I am still vibrating, I think. So if. Bruce, if y' all are picking up some hums on the other end, that's just me. Yeah, man, the Pacers got pasted. I don't even know what to do with myself, to be honest with you. I was. I was really thinking a lot during this game. Like, man, I'm really not looking forward to going on this live stream after this. And. And I. What a. What a sweat. I know what it feels like to be a Pacer fan now. This is amazing.
- [01:58]
Justin
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. On the basketball court, the best players know when to pass. And off the court, you still need teammates who are there when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. With agents and online tools to help you find the coverage you need. You could focus on what really matters, whether that's hitting game winners or just getting through the day. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. We needed to do a wellness check on Tyler just to start this podcast. Rob, how is your heart right now? Are you having palpitations after this one?
- [02:35]
Rob Mahoney
No, I'm. I'm cool as a cucumber. I'm. I'm sh. Crunch time right now. You know, I'm just.
- [02:39]
Tyler Parker
I'm.
- [02:39]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just bobbing and weaving myself, looking for a little contact and then trying to figure it out.
- [02:44]
Justin
Well, if I could be a little precious with this. It did feel like the way that the Thunder took this game back was particularly thundery. You know, the Pacers had had these triumphant comebacks throughout the postseason. Just doing it their way. The crisp, high octane offense. Tyler. But this was really just like brute force. And more than anything, it was Shay, Gilders, Alexander, Shay.
- [03:08]
Tyler Parker
I mean, they threw that stat up or Breen said the stat at one point. Indies 9 and 1 in clutch games this postseason. Shay tonight outscores them 14 to 7 in clutch time himself, which is just. And to do that after, I mean he's the entire, he's. He's the entire focus of the defense. Right. The rest of the team is giving him absolutely no space to operate. They hit only three threes tonight. How many times in the NBA in the past, like, I don't know, five years has a team won any game making three threes?
- [03:47]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you know what, Tyler? I'm so glad you asked that exact question. Here's my prompt for the two of you. When was the last time any team won any game with three threes or fewer and 10 assists or fewer? Because really, Indy's defense cut off the water on the assist too. When do you think was the last time that happened?
- [04:04]
Justin
I didn't know we had access to Mahoney stats and information over here. This is beautiful. I love it.
- [04:09]
Rob Mahoney
I'm plugged. I'm plugged into the matrix tonight. Like we're just feeding it straight.
- [04:12]
Tyler Parker
It's incredible to see you in final form, Rob, honestly.
- [04:15]
Rob Mahoney
Thank you.
- [04:16]
Justin
But give us those two numbers again.
- [04:18]
Rob Mahoney
So as a team, 10 assists or fewer and three made three pointers or fewer and they won. Winning any game at any time in any season.
- [04:28]
Tyler Parker
The exact opposite of the, like the formula for winning a modern basketball game. I know, Incredible.
- [04:35]
Justin
A Kobe Lakers team. Was it 20.
- [04:39]
Rob Mahoney
Not quite that far back to a 2015 regular season game that the Hornets, led by Michael Kid Gilchrist and Brian Roberts beat the Knicks in like the low 70s. That was the extent of that game. I think that's what's crazy about this one is like those two stats are true. That's what the Thunder did in this game. This was still like a really high level basketball game. This felt like great basketball all the way through. It felt like teams struggling and finding their way and needing to, to improvise and double down on their identities at times and being drifted. Drifted from their identities at times. But this didn't feel like Charlotte Hornets regular season basketball. This felt like a Thunder team that, honestly, if we're being totally honest about it, I don't know that any other team in recent memory could win a playoff game in this Sort of fashion where Tyler, you mentioned the Shay closing out in crunch time, but just as important is the seven points being allowed for the Pacers in crunch time. Right. Like, shutting them down in the fashion that they did was so crucial.
- [05:34]
Tyler Parker
Oh, my God. I mean, you got, you got that getting pulled into ISOs three different times in the last whatever, minute and a half. And he holds up all three times.
- [05:44]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [05:44]
Tyler Parker
Gets good contests on all three of them. I mean, I think what, two of them are with Halliburton and one of them's with Nemard. My brain is jelly right now, but. So that's probably wrong, but, yeah, I mean, for as much as the rest of the team did not show up beyond the arc to have check, go for the double double and play so well down the stretch. He's got those two big follows. He's got that huge follow dunk late. You've got Russo going for 20, and it felt like the first 15 of those are happening at parts where it feels like the game might get out of hand. He's got a big buck. He has a big three. I think early fourth, that it's the leads nine, and he cuts it to six. Like, just these. Is that fade away at the start of the fourth off the dribble, and it's like, what's go I. What is, what's. I don't, I don't even know what game I'm watching at that point. Right. Like, you know, Jalen goes for 27 after, you know, having a lot of suspect. Not a lot of suspect games this playoffs, but definitely some. Right. And it's been amazing to see him bounce back after some of these lackluster performances. It's happened every single series where at a certain point is back against the wall, he shows up. It was just. Yeah, I, I, I can't, I can't say enough, and I'm talking too much.
- [07:11]
Rob Mahoney
No, no, no.
- [07:12]
Justin
Well, we, well, we get it because this was pretty much a different game up until about 10 minutes before we started this podcast. Ready to sing the praises of the, of the Pacers. They played just remarkable this entire game, especially on defense. We'll talk about that eventually. But, Rob, if you were to consult the Elias Sports Bureau for a second, like, what would you say is, like, the number one thing that changed late in the game? Was it Shay taking over? Was it defense? Like, if you're just saying number one, what's your first thought?
- [07:39]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's Shay taking over. And within that, I think the broader approach where it seemed like the Thunder were trying to play a longer game. Like this is the methodology behind changing the starting lineup. They went big, took Case and Wallace out of the starting lineup. I don't love that decision personally. It didn't work great. They led to the most explosive Indiana Pacers start of this entire series. But the trade off part of that package is okay. Shea, who historically plays the entire first quarter, comes out about midway through. They're trying to parcel his minutes out differently. He's clearly less aggressive in terms of hunting his own offense in the first half. He's, you know, he's obviously being hounded by Andrew Nemhardt at every step, being denied the ball. It's tough being Shade Gilgamesh Alexander in the series, but you could see him sort of biting his time. I'm guilty in the third quarter of wondering was that a mistake? Like did he, did he kind of wait too long to get started and then here he comes in the fourth quarter delivering everything that the Thunder would hope for him to deliver, delivering on every bit of that game plan. Like, I think the rotations were reoriented in a way where, you know, the Thunder are not a team that are just going to consolidate minutes and trim all of the role players out of the rotation and play their key guys 40. Like it's just not really in their DNA. It's not how they operate. But this, they can do reorient things, reprioritize their energy, make it so that at the end of the game Shea isn't dog exhausted in the way that he was in some of the first three games of the series by the end of them. And he has this kind of closing kick in him.
- [09:03]
Justin
Yeah. Tyler, we've been talking this entire season pretty much about on using their bench, using different combinations to get into situations like this. We saw them start game one a different starting lineup that seemed a little aggressive, but it almost felt of a piece. With everything we've known about the Thunder, this one felt particularly aggressive to the point where everything Rob said where they pull Shay early but like toward the end of that first quarter they basically did a line shift outside of Cason Wallace where they subbed four guys in on Mass. You saw J Dub handling the ball for better or worse at times. What did you think about that? Just overall and then maybe the dividends it paid later on.
- [09:42]
Tyler Parker
I mean it is. It shouldn't be surprising to me at this point just because that's. I've watched Dygnau coach for several years at this point. Right.
- [09:52]
Justin
But this is A games with.
- [09:54]
Tyler Parker
This is a madman. Yeah. Like, this is a madman. Like, this is a guy who is not afraid to change something up in massive moments. He's been that way this whole time. They tinker throughout the season, like y' all said, with different lineups. Everybody. I agreed that it was a little aggressive to start the series with Cason lineup, as much as I'm a Cason, like, devotee. But it was one of those things whenever everybody was up in arms about. I'm like, you know, Cason started 48 games this year, I think.
- [10:26]
Justin
Right.
- [10:27]
Tyler Parker
It's not someone coming in that hasn't had, you know, any time in the starting lineup. And so in the rest of the lineup is used to, you know, Aaron Wiggins goes from. He scores whatever he did 19 in game two. Right. He only gets 10 minutes in game three tonight. He gets to play a little bit more. I can't remember what the final minute count was, but, like, these guys are just used to being on their toes and knowing that there's a possibility they're going to have to go in. And I think you're exactly right that, like, if you look at the beginning of that fourth quarter, Caruso. Caruso gets the inbound and goes coast to coast. And I think hits that layup or hits that, Hits that fade away that I mentioned earlier. And it just looked like he had more turbo reserves than the rest of the guys on the floor. And part of that is just that he hasn't had to play as many minutes. And, you know, then the other part of it is just like, he has a motor that won't quit. Right. And so he's. He's a lunatic himself. So. But yeah, I. I think it was another example of the Thunder not being afraid to tap anyone in a gigantic moment. You know what I mean? I mean, what they play tonight, nine guys.
- [11:48]
Rob Mahoney
I think they were 10.
- [11:49]
Tyler Parker
They go 10?
- [11:50]
Justin
Yeah, they got 10. Joe had five. The stereotypical Joe. Five minutes and gets pulled. But, you know, that was more than last game.
- [11:57]
Tyler Parker
It's always like, it's either. Like, it's if it's either Joe gets more minutes than Wiggins and Wiggins doesn't play, or the opposite, like, they. It just depends on how they shake out.
- [12:08]
Rob Mahoney
Totally.
- [12:08]
Justin
But you're.
- [12:09]
Rob Mahoney
I think you're right, Tyler, that it's almost in some ways, like Case Wallace and Isaiah Hardenstein, there's the question of who starts and. And how you want to construct the lineups, but really it's a false choice because the answer is Alex Caruso, he's going to play most of the minutes that actually matter. And, yeah, those plays are huge. Like, his willingness to take shots like that is really important. And I thought one of the clearest. This team talked about this in film and came out with, like, a different disposition on it. Elements of this game was Alex Caruso looking to drive. It would, like. Indiana just did not respect him going to the basket at all. They didn't really treat it as a. As a realistic possibility in Game three. They just, like, we're not guarding it. And then all of a sudden, you could see every kind of handoff, every exchange, every time he caught on the perimeter, he was looking to get to the basket. And when that happens, yes, he's getting layups. He's also spraying out to other guys or dumping off to other players to finish inside. Like, the. That added a really important element to get the Thunder through the first three quarters of this game.
- [13:03]
Justin
Yeah. Tyler, give us the dossier on Alex Caruso from the Thunder fan perspective. Because he starts from a. From like above, because he's better than Josh Giddy. He isn't Josh Giddy. And so he's probably endeared to the.
- [13:15]
Tyler Parker
Fans more than he is able to play closing minutes in a massive playoff game.
- [13:19]
Justin
So imagine he was a little shaky regular season. The shooting wasn't there. He was as he typically is. You weren't sure, like, if that would carry into the postseason. Obviously, that hasn't been the case. He's just been absolutely bulletproof. Probably one of the best playoff players. If you were doing like a three deep, all NBA, like, all postseason team, he would certainly be probably third or second team at this point. What's it just been like watching him at this point? Like, if. If you were to rank like the Thunder, players you believe in are going to show up in crucial moments. Is he like, two.
- [13:51]
Tyler Parker
He's way up there. I would have to think. That's a good question. I'd have to think about my ranking. But he. He is. He's been, you know, I mean, all the cliches, everything. You could want him more. I mean, from. From the jump, when they got him, it seemed like, okay, this is amazing. This. This directly addresses a need and gets rid of a weakness all at the same time. And it's also, I think, big for the Thunder to have a guy like Caruso who is going to be okay only playing 10 minutes some night. You know what I mean? Like, to be able to remove the ego in those situations and know there's a Longer game know that. I mean, he had a quote after. After game two that I think Pina used in his great feature on his great profile on. On. On Caruso, but he was basically like, you know, I don't. I don't. I play a pretty erratic style and I don't. I can't play like this every night. You know, it's just not. It's not possible. And so that they're able to. They were able to kind of have the. Have a long game in mind with him. This season has been massive. And yeah, the shot turning around in the playoffs has been incredible. But no, I mean, I thought as. As in. As. As intentional as they were about going after that the Pacers were about going after Shay, trying to tire him down. Thought of the Thunder were pretty intentional about trying to get Halberdon into actions and definitely driving him. Like, they tried to have Caruso or. Or they try to have, you know, him on someone like Caruso or Kas or whatever. The first possession of the game, you know, they're attacking Halberton right off the bat. And so I think they're. They're Both teams are employing similar strategies to try to, you know, chip away at the engine of the team, you know, Totally.
- [15:50]
Rob Mahoney
I think you can see it in the. In the perimeter defense, especially, like, the guys like Caruso and Lou Dord are bringing, like, the. Really. The difference in this game. For the Thunder. For the Thunder. And like, the way they leveled up defensively by the end of it was they went from getting caught in the blender of everything the Pacers were running in the first quarter just like, could not stay out of it. Could not stay out of rotation. And I thought by Thunder standards were just like, weirdly undisciplined, like helping off the strong side corner, like, giving up just terrible shots. Like the Thunder.
- [16:18]
Tyler Parker
Cheating a little bit too much over a little bit too much sometimes, like, not. They talk like Caruso talked. Will talk about sometimes having, like, proper respect for the offense and stuff like that and how sometimes, you know, you can venture into. I can get away with anything. And it felt like a couple of those moments happened tonight where he's helping off that strong sign quarter and then Halliburton, you know, looks one way and throws it to topping in the corner or whatever. You know, like, the next time Toppin misses a shot, I will be. I will get down on my knees and, you know, sing a hymn for no less than 10 minutes. This guy's been unbelievable. That's not what we're talking about. But I did want to make sure and give him a shout out because he's been incredible and defensively he's been working too. I just. I can't believe it.
- [17:07]
Rob Mahoney
Definitely.
- [17:07]
Justin
Yeah, we're gonna get to some of these other guys later on. I want to do kind of like a playoff made men list to see, like, who minted off of this game in particular, but also in the postseason overall. But we should talk about the Pacers, just because going into this podcast, Rob, I thought we would be just extolling the virtues of this defense. They made Shea look like he had just, like, woken up from a nap. He just didn't have that extra throughout the game, in part because Nemhardt was clinging to him like a goddamn koala for most of this game. And so it's so weird because I almost want to be like, holy shit. The Pacers defense. The one aspect of the team that derided even in the best of times in this regular season, maybe by me, but, like, we're not going to cast aspersions or anything like that, but it showed up in a big way. Just like down the stretch. Just something happened. Like, obviously give credit to the Thunder, but I thought Siakam. Let's start with Siakam, who played a masterful game, but seemed like he kind of drifted away, or maybe the Pacers drift away from him. He didn't score at all in that fourth quarter. If you were to look at this from the other side, do you think that was like the biggest flaw of the Pacers down the stretch?
- [18:14]
Rob Mahoney
I think it was some of it, but a lot of that, again, these are all related things. Part of the reason they weren't going to Siakam as much down the stretch is because I thought the Thunder did a great job of controlling some of the mismatches that Siakam was exploiting. Like, all the easy stuff that he was feeding on early in the game, they were shutting down. And so then all of a sudden, Indy started looking to other places, like, okay, we're not going to just post Yakim against Smalls. Like, that's not really as available to us. Those passes are getting disrupted. Let's bring Chet up. You know, like, let's. Let's try to get something else into the action. Let's try to run something that's a little bit different to create here. And that didn't really work out for them either. So, like, I think ultimately it's one of those things where the Thunder defense is nudging the Pacers in these directions, but they were really rocked off their axis in terms of their execution. They, they were really thrown off by the level of precision that Oklahoma City was playing with by the end of this game. Obviously the ball pressure is always going to be a tough thing for them. You know, I we are lovers of team basketball around here, but sometimes this shit does come down to like you just have to do this one on one. And to be totally honest with you, Shay by the end of it was the best one on one player in this game and J Dub was the second best one on one player in this game in terms of creation. And the result of that is you don't get any threes and you don't get any of those assists like we talked about. But if those two guys are this good and the Thunder defense is this good, it's going to overcome even a very good Pacers game. Like this was a very good Pacers game up until the moment. Like their offense was a little, a little laggy in the fourth, but other than that they played really well.
- [19:41]
Justin
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- [21:22]
Tyler Parker
Grateful. Grateful to be for his. Grateful to Ben for his performance late tonight. I thought he was sensational.
- [21:27]
Rob Mahoney
I. I don't think I've ever seen it before. The two away from the play, pre.
- [21:31]
Tyler Parker
Pass fouls in one quarter, looking incredulous about it. It's like, dude, you hit him like a bowling ball. You know, what are we. What are we talking about here?
- [21:43]
Justin
So maybe not as good as LeBron ultimately, maybe not. He might have lost that one. But yeah, just.
- [21:50]
Rob Mahoney
That's okay. You know, it was almost odd to.
- [21:52]
Justin
See the Pacers not come on top in this situation because, like, this is where they shine.
- [22:01]
Tyler Parker
The, the. The Pacers defense has been, you know, incredible when it's had to be throughout, you know, a majority of this series. Save game two. Right. And so it. It. I've been extremely impressed just with the unit as a whole. They're. They scrap on every possession. Anybody who's chasing anybody is hauling ass. You know what I mean? Like, they're not. They, you know, Ben Shepard, I don't think I've ever seen him get screened, which is infuriating as a Thunder, but he's just like, you know, and they have such active defenders. Nemhard is just so smart and so it's so weird that he's young because he feels like one of these, like, wily vets already. What I mean, like, it feels like he's got a bunch of like, you know, not the dark arts, but maybe the, the. The gray arts, you know, not quite the dark arts yet, but he's on the verge of learning them.
- [22:58]
Rob Mahoney
And I think it's the facial hair. Him and shepherd both. It just makes you feel like they're w. More wily than they are.
- [23:03]
Justin
Yeah, but like he's an apprentice.
- [23:05]
Tyler Parker
Yeah, totally. Totally.
- [23:08]
Justin
We got there. Thank you.
- [23:10]
Tyler Parker
I think the big thing tonight was that the Thunder did not particularly SGA and Jalen did not stop driving. They just kept on sticking with the plan. And once they started to finally get some success going downhill late, that opened up the pull ups for them and stuff. And so it, you know, they, they started trying to get sga the ball not quite at the nail, but at the elbow where he's not having to Run off a bunch of screens. It's like this little rub on the block and he sort of pops right up there, right. Like it's less. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're making him cover less ground in those moments. And then he's got Nemhard on him and it's, you know, it's not, it's not the same as when Siakam's got a small on him. But Shea is much taller than Nemhard and can get a shot off over him for the most part when he wants. And especially once he started to loosen the defense up with some of the drives. You know, he catches that one around, you know, 13ft or whatever and it's just one bounce right straight up and it's. That was, that's a warm up shot for him that he's getting in crunch time in the fourth of the NBA Finals, you know what I mean? So it, it that they just stuck with the plan and that they kind of simplified the offense in the end, you know what I mean? It was in the same way that you sometimes used to see those old Thunder teams where it's just like, okay, this is going to be pick and roll. Russ is going to set a screen for KD and then we're going to see what happens. It kind of turned into a little bit of that. There was a little bit. There's a little bit more nuance with this team, thank God, than there was with the Scotty Brooks coach squads. But there was some element of they're trying to put nice Smith on Jalen and Shea's got knee Smith in hell. Obviously he fouls him out with whatever. It was like 44 seconds left or something. But she had Naismith in hell for those final couple minutes and they just kept setting that screen. And I'd be interested to see, like that might just be an automatic switch based off of their, you know, defensive principles and the game plan and stuff like that. But the Pacers have typically done a really good job with not giving up switches when they know the Thunder are trying to do that. Both of these teams are really invested on the defensive end and not giving up the switch that the other team desperately wants. So I was surprised to see them do it so consistently there towards the end. I mean, it speaks to Jalen as a screener. It speaks to how well he was playing and that they were terrified of him getting loose. But yeah, it's that things became kind of meat and potatoes there at the end was I think. I think it just simplified a lot of things for the offense. And at a certain point, him and Shay and Jalen finally kind of got in rhythm at the same time. And when those two are playing well and when Chet's giving you anything, if those two are playing well and Chet's giving you anything, this team becomes very, very hard to beat.
- [26:08]
Justin
Yeah, I want to get to the left. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Go ahead.
- [26:12]
Rob Mahoney
No, I, I want to get to the chat part of it because his awakening in the second half, I don't know what happened exactly.
- [26:18]
Tyler Parker
I think after a brutal rolled ankle.
- [26:21]
Rob Mahoney
Incredibly brutal rolled ankle, clearly, like just was not moving super well, was not impacting the game in the first half, and then all of a sudden came alive in a totally different way in the second half. That deserves singling out, deserves talking about. But I don't want to gloss past jdub in this because you're right, Tyler, that him setting those screens in that way is creating those switches. To me, that's like classic late game stuff where teams are a little more willing to switch to control the action than they might be in other situations. And so that's why you see that happening from the Pacers, especially when it's the two most dangerous players on the floor. But getting Nemhard off of Shai is just worth any action, any time, any investment. I just think, like, this is. This is going to take a bit of a threading of the needle, so bear with me, Andrew Nemhard played a plus plus plus defense in this game, like guarded Shea, as good as it. As well as it can be done. And Shea had 35 points. Like, those things are both true.
- [27:13]
Tyler Parker
Yeah.
- [27:13]
Rob Mahoney
And we're going to have to live with both those things being true. But getting Nemhard off of Shay in some crucial moments and Shay getting them hard off of him too, with, you know, the little bump and kind of create creation of space that he's so good at. That's what created the ultimate separation for the Thunder down the stretch.
- [27:29]
Justin
Well, yeah, so Shea had the 35 points, but the glaring, I think, number on the box score is just the zero assists and just speaks to what you're saying about Nemhardt. But overall it just seemed like there was a real. Maybe not chopping the head off the snake because the Thunder ultimately won this game, but are very least like getting in a firm headlock because that trickled down to everybody else. I was tracking this probably the entire game where it was like, oh, at halftime there's only six assists for the Thunder. Then it was eight, and then they ended up with, I believe, 10 here. But clearly, Kyle, I mean, Tyler, there was just, like, something off about what Thunder had, and the fact that J Dub stepped forward and did wrangle the game in a way that we've been hoping for for a little while. And then you got the chat bonus at the end there. I think that makes the difference because, I mean, not to be reductive about this, but, like, the Thunder need those guys in order to fill in, especially considering the way the Pacers are selling out. They're basically saying someone else beat us because Shay, we will do everything to stop him.
- [28:29]
Tyler Parker
No, for sure. And I think. I think, you know, The. The. The Mrs. Compound things, right? And so as the game wears on and they just cannot hit from distance, things just tighten up on the inside, right? And there gets to be even less room to operate. They were running chat off the line pretty good. Sometimes I feel like Chet's got a little window and he doesn't pull as quick as he should. Tonight, I didn't really feel like that. For the most part, it felt like they were just running him off the line and he was doing what he. What he needed to do. But, no, I mean, it. I. Nemhardt has guarded SGA better than anybody this postseason far and away, and has given him. I mean, this Pacers team has given him the kind of trouble that, like, I've really only seen in the past from somebody like, you know, Amen's had some great possessions on him this year. Herb Jones used to have some great possessions on him a couple years ago when Herb was healthy, like you could. You know, it's. It's not as if he can't be, you know, held in check some nights, but that he was. That Nim Hard is making him. Nemhardt and the Pacer defense all together is making him work in a way that nobody else has. And so for him, yeah, for him to go for 35, when really it felt like he had not a ton in the tank right, like, there, it really felt like he did not have a lot of juice for the beginning of that fourth quarter. And really, for a lot of the second half, I mean, there was. You know, he was 10 for 22 at one point, and, you know, you wouldn't say he was playing bad, really, but he's. They're not letting him beat them. You know what I mean? Like, they're doing.
- [30:18]
Justin
They feel constricted in a way that was very noticeable. And like, Rob, I think, like, going into when we were doing the previews for this series, Nemhardt hadn't. Historically, at least this season, had a ton of success against Shay. And so, like, what is different is it the fact that, like, maybe they could throw shepherd out there for a bit, tire those guys out, he could stay fresh. And there's just, like, a relentlessness there.
- [30:43]
Rob Mahoney
I think it is the relentlessness because in terms of physique and, like, profile, Andrew Nemhardt is not the type of defender. Like, you know, the guys you're describing. Tyler, I would say Derrick Jones Jr. Has also been in that category. Like, bigger, lankier guys are the ones who usually give Shay a little bit of trouble, if anybody. I don't know that we've ever seen someone this size get under his skin in this way. And, you know, it's one of the things about Shai's game where he has such, like, a One of one unique style of movement. And one of the side effects of that is you can. You can really tell when he's not. When he's off, when he's off balance, because we're so used to that kind of, like, glide by way he navigates through defenses and finishes kind of over and around anybody. All of a sudden, you're seeing him in this. In at least in the bulk of this game, off balance. The body control isn't there, the poise on the jumper isn't there. He actually looks rushed for the first time in what feels like a. And so seeing that version of Shai, I think you have to attribute to the total body of work, right? It's the way that they're making him work on both ends. It's the fact that Nemhard doesn't have, you know, he has a level of offensive responsibility, but he's not driving offense so he can pick up full court. He can dedicate his entire workload for the night, more or less to this as much as anything, in a way that we've seen Niecemith do in other series. Right? Like, we see. We see those guys kind of trade off and how much they have to lean into their defense. But a huge reason the Thunder survive all of that is because J Dub was basically Shay for three quarters. Not necessarily in terms of production, but I thought this was just, like, as strong a game as we've seen from J Dub, certainly in this postseason, maybe in his entire career. And I say that not just in terms of, like, oh, he played well, or he played smart, but getting to the basket, like, getting to the basket aggressively through Defense, finishing through contact, finishing through second chances when he would miss and go up through three guys to get his own miss and then finish. Just tremendous, like can't miss stuff like this is exactly who they need him to be. It's who everyone has been begging him to be. Real star level contributions from J Dub in the biggest possible moment of the Thunder season.
- [32:36]
Justin
Yeah, and it's definitely something that's going to have to show up down the road. Not only because obviously they need him, he's a crucial part of what he does, but also I can't imagine the harassment is going to stop on Shea. And I do wonder how much these miles are going to compound over the course of this series. And one thing I've been tracking Tyler is like, obviously give the Pacers a ton of credit. They have found a way to disrupt him in the way that I can't remember remember any other team, especially over the course of the postseason. Like Denver did their damnedest and he did not look like he is right now. But the other part of this, I think you have to wonder is like we're now deep into the postseason of a season in which Shea took by far the most shots in the NBA, took by far the most free throws in the NBA. I was trying to track it before we got on here. It's basically including the postseason and the regular season, it's basically 2,900 shots at this point. And they just, it's intrinsic to how they play. They need Shay to be the sun, the moon, the stars. But you have to wonder if like that is also slowly underneath, like the tectonic plates, something that is happening here where it's like those miles are adding up and they're adding up. And just like Shay, especially from the mid range, just feels like, yeah, he's been great, but he hasn't been as sharp. And leading into this game, the struggles the Thunder have had been primarily from two and from the mid range, him and J Dub. And so I don't know, does it feel like just watching him over the course of this season that like in addition to what the Pacers are doing, he might be showing signs there or am I reading too much into it?
- [34:03]
Tyler Parker
I mean, I don't think that's reading too much into it. I think it's a combination of all those things. Right? I think it's the, it's the, it's the last series of the season. They've, they've played 17 game series in these playoffs, the Minnesota series, they got rid of them quickly. But it was still physical. And then, you know, like, this one is a. The. There's. Nimhard is. You have to be such a disciplined defender against Shay. You can't reach in. You gotta move your feet. You've got to try to just be chest to chest with him and keep him in front of you because he's trying to use one of those crazy legs of his to just get you on his hip. Like, if he gets a shoulder past, you're kind of done right? And Nim Hard's ability to be constant pest there, that he is, that he does have that disciplined, I think, reputation when it comes to the officials too. He can get. I mean, they showed it late, right? He gets away with a few tugs on the jersey. He gets away with some stuff because he is so disciplined. And that's not. I. Lord knows the Thunder do plenty of that too, right? So, no, no shade here. That's how you should play defense in the playoffs. But so I think that that's been a big aspect of it is you. You have both. Parlisle's a genius and is trying to move all the pieces around and figure out a way to keep him in check. You've got the fact that even though he's not a bad defender, he is the lesser of the evils on that end. In a lot of situations for the Thunder, especially when Caruso's minutes are way up, right? It's like if you're. If. If you have a team that is perimeter focused, it's just you're going to go at him, you know what I mean? And I. And I think in the. In this series, like, you have seen him just exhausted, you know what I mean? And so it. I think it's been a great game plan by the Pacers. I think you could really tell that there was only a day off in between games this time, too. I think you tell it for both teams. Like, the Pacers don't have as much juice late as they usually do, but I think you could really tell it was Shea early on in the game. There just wasn't that kind of. Not even burst. But like the. Just, you know, the. The kind of. The fluidity there. There weren't as many moments of. Of grace from him as you are. As you are accustomed to seeing. And that's. That's like the Pacers throwing glitches in there. So it. They've. I mean, they've had an incredible game plan, right? And like, the execution has been aces for the most part. I think Shea is Just a really special scorer, and he's the type of guy that you have to play him in the same way you got to play the Patriots for the full 48. You got to play him for the full 48, you know what I mean? And when him and Jalen are both looking at the same time, it really makes things confusing for a defense, especially whenever they're both the two guys that are involved in the action late, you know what I mean? I think that Jalen was going. And they had to sell out on him, you know, if the ball is going back to him there. Yeah. But, I mean, Jaylen as a ball. As a ball handler tonight, there were some shaky moments, but there were also just some. Like, he's so good with his left and has been so good with his left, both as a finisher and a ball handler. He had a. You know, there's like a little over eight minutes left, I think, to tie it. You know, he. He snakes a ball screen and kind of just dances in front of Turner and then doesn't ever bring the ball back to his right. He goes with his left. Like, he's done that multiple times this series. And yeah, when. Anytime he gets into that mode where he's. He's got the defender in jail behind him and he's able to start snaking and he's got a little bit of a Runway, if there's any space there. He's wiggly enough and wiry enough to. He can finish sort of around the defense with this right left of his. You know, I would love to see what this Thunder offense looked like making any three whatsoever. Yeah. Because it's. This series in particular has. It's just been like anybody anyway, you know, other than. Other than really Game two. Right. Like, you know, we can save basketball and my soul, and I'm grateful to him for that. But, yeah, it's. I've. I think it was just Shay. I thought. I thought this was like a massive. Massive sort of moment for Shay. He's. He's been. He's. Shut up all the doubters. I think, during this postseason, just anybody who was like, he shouldn't have been the MVP or whatever. Like, I don't think you can really throw stones at his performance this postseason in any way. He's just showed up and. But to see him do that on the biggest stage. And Jalen, I mean it. Yeah. Like, more than. More than these. More than that Game four in Minnesota, more than the. The. The Game four in Denver or whatever. Like, more than the. These There were. There were. They've had some great moments and some really, really good wins where it's felt like they've leveled up and grown, you know what I mean? But none more than. None more than that. To go in, to be on the road there, to shoot like shit and to still come out with a W, you know, that's. I don't know how many. I mean, what did you say, Robert? To be like, I don't know how many other teams can win a game like that. Like, I just.
- [39:47]
Rob Mahoney
That genuinely don't.
- [39:48]
Tyler Parker
That's kind of. That's kind of how I. I feel like it's the only other team that could do that. The Thunder are playing and they did it too. You know what I mean? And so it's like. It. No. Yeah. I don't even know what to do.
- [40:01]
Justin
The flip side of this, Rob, is that over time, maybe Shade just grinds this team down because he does play such a physical style. You had to wonder down the stretch. Also, like, the fact that Neesmith just wasn't available. Then the margins start to twist just a little bit. And as we've seen this series, it's really a couple plays like Nismis blows through defenders in order to get offensive rebounds. All this stuff like that really is dictating these games. So I do wonder, like, if we're looking at this from the other side of things. Maybe Shay is actually wearing down the Pacers and that will ultimately prove to be a difference.
- [40:35]
Rob Mahoney
It definitely could be. I mean, it's so hard. Look, part of the reason this game was as great as it was is there. It did feel like a moment. It was just not exactly clear to the end what that moment would mean.34. Like, I had the moment in the third quarter. You brought up Obi Toppin earlier. Tyler, like, when he hit those back to back threes, I was like, oh, my God, the Pacers might win the title. Like, they might legit win the title. This felt like the crest, like the momentum, like cresting into something really, really meaningful. Now we get to re, like, completely reinterpret what this game is and what its significance is. And this is going to look. This is a long series, a lot of basketball yet to be played. We're talking very positively about the Thunder because they stole this game because of the manner in which they won it. If they go on to win, this is going to be one of the signature bullet points, right? Like, their resolve in this exact stretch of this fourth quarter and specifically the way that their big three came together in maybe the most balanced fashion they have at any point in this postseason. They've had great moments of sort of triangulating points and production and all those things. This was each of those three guys living up to their assignment and living up to their roles and exactly what the team kind of aspirationally hopes that they can be. This is the. This is the blueprint for who the Thunder want to be for the next half decade or more.
- [41:48]
Tyler Parker
Totally. It was each of them making plays that without that play, the Thunder don't win. They don't get, you know, like, unless without those two follows from Chet late in the fourth, it doesn't happen. Yeah, just massive and to. Without his, you know, defense and those isos holding up right. Like. And, yeah, I mean, we already talked about Jalen and Chet or Jalen and Shay just as. As, you know, closers, but no, yeah, to. They. That trio really synthesized the goods tonight. In the end, you know, it was. It was for sure, touch and go. And I agree with you, Rob, like, we're talking highly of the Thunders specifically because of, you know, whatever, seven minutes of basketball, and it could have easily. We could have easily been slobbering all over the Pacers instead, if, you know, one way or the other. But, I mean, that's the beauty of the playoffs. You know what I mean? That's what's. It's so fun whenever one of these great games actually does come down to the wire like that, and it's in. I mean, it wasn't. You know, it wasn't like it was a game winner or anything, but to. Yeah. To see both teams have leads late and, you know, that back and forth and then. Yeah, to see that. To see the Thunder, it's. I mean, it's crazy. This is the first time they've been in the finals. I like, you know, I mean, it's just crazy. It's crazy.
- [43:21]
Rob Mahoney
Well, well, let me say a few things about. On. On the Pacers front, Justin. Let me. Let me tip a couple of caps here. One, I think for the. Maybe the majority of this game, or at the very least the first half, Pascal Siakam was the most dangerous player on the floor.
- [43:35]
Tyler Parker
Oh, my God, he was incredible.
- [43:37]
Rob Mahoney
Total menace on both ends. Was amazing in transition. Amazing ceiling inside did a tremendous job. I thought. Tyrese Haliburton's driving in this game was incredibly promising. Again, was another kind of cultivate, like, culmination of so many things he's been working towards in these playoffs and so many ways in which defenses have been kind of like leveraging his wants and his inclinations against him at times. His like double clutch reverse with the English. Good Lord. Like the shot of the game up until the moment that the Pacers lost it. Obi toppin was tremendous. Like I just think so many Pacers played so well and this is what makes games like this so heartbreaking from Indy's perspective is like you kind of did everything you needed to do except seal it. And for that to happen to the Pacers of all teams feels like a poetic injustice. If nothing else, this episode is brought.
- [44:24]
Justin
To you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next.
- [44:27]
Rob Mahoney
Thing you know you're totally obsessed?
- [44:29]
Justin
Like I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get.
- [44:38]
Rob Mahoney
More out of whatever passions you're into or getting into.
- [44:41]
Justin
Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your.
- [44:44]
Rob Mahoney
Obsession wherever it goes.
- [44:47]
Justin
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- [46:49]
Rob Mahoney
I think he is a made man. I think he does deserve to be on the list. Again, there's like different levels to this stuff, right? Like, there's the level of you take your team to a conference finals run and that's going to be enough to mint you in that city for life. And then there is the different level of elevation that comes with winning a title. Specific. Like, if the Thunder win the title, Alex Caruso is going to ascend to a level of memetic prominence that he will never be able to escape. Like, it's just going to be who he. He is going to be the dog of dogs for the rest of his life. Like this. These highlighted reels will live rent free in so many people's heads. So, like, he is going to be up there for sure. Niecemith and Nemhard. Absolutely. Like, those guys are the next two guys. Playoff elevators, just not just by percentages but by impact of play, are just totally different.
- [47:35]
Tyler Parker
Did he get to 10 rebounds tonight? He had nine with a lot of time left and I just stopped looking at it. But he as a rebounder, he's incredible. Oh, yeah. He ended with nine.
- [47:45]
Justin
Yes.
- [47:46]
Rob Mahoney
And it was nine.
- [47:46]
Tyler Parker
That's surprising to me.
- [47:48]
Justin
Well, let's. Let's take them one at a time then. So Andrew Nemhard, who Mike Breen tried to force playoff Andrew as a nickname in game two. It almost was like, yeah, they're calling a playoff Andrew. I was like, no, they're not. He wouldn't try to do this. But Tyler, do you think playoff Andrew is now a guy? Because he's definitely more in the range. I think we're talking about here where it's like, he's young enough to. Where I don't think we know who he's going to be. But God damn. With the defense, it's just like. Plus the fact that he only makes three pointers in the playoffs, I think he might be a made guy.
- [48:23]
Tyler Parker
He's definitely A made guy at this point just because he's, he's. It's not like he has only had one good series up till now and he didn't show up in these other ones. You know what I mean? Like, he's been, he's been incredible for them. And no, I think as just like a steady force who's going to do his job. And if, if, if things break where, you know, he winds up shooting eight threes in a game, he could wind up with 25 pretty easily. But they don't necessarily need that from him. I mean, he's just perfect for what they are trying to do. Same thing with niece Smith. I mean that, that whole front office has been just done such an incredible job of finding pieces that match with that playstyle. Right. And so it, yeah, it's been him and niece Smith, I think are both, are both made men just for. Or at least like they're made men for like the next four years. You know what I mean?
- [49:19]
Justin
There'll be. It's like a presidential term.
- [49:21]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [49:21]
Tyler Parker
I think, you know, if you're, if you're young enough or if it's, if it's early enough in your made man tenure, I think you can lose it. You know what I mean? I think in certain, certain guys, you know, it's like, you know, I, I think, I think it can fall by the wayside a little bit, but for right now, for sure. And I think the Caruso thing, the reason I would say he like leveled up is because is obviously we know everything about the defense. He's got that huge defection late tonight whenever he helps off and just like basically catches the ball out of the air there with whatever it was. Like, I can't remember if it was inside four minutes or not, but, but it, he scored 20 twice in this series.
- [50:03]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [50:03]
Tyler Parker
And that's, I can assure you, in the wildest dreams of Thunder fans whenever, whenever they got him, no one thought he was going to score 20 in one playoff game, much less two finals games.
- [50:19]
Rob Mahoney
It's not the plan.
- [50:21]
Tyler Parker
No. And what he misses two shots tonight. I think, you know, it's like the, to score like that, to get that much production from him on the offensive end, whenever, you know, what you're getting from him defensively is just, it's incalculable to be able to, to be able to play him late and not worry about that. He's shown so much as a driver, weirdly, which you mentioned earlier, Justin, like, it's just all that stuff combined. I think he's gone up a level. I think he would have gone up a level of my estimation even if I wasn't a Thunder fan. But I'm also a Thunder fan and can't be trusted. Right. I'm a massive Hummer.
- [50:58]
Justin
I think you could also tell when guys like what they wear, their mannerism starts to trickle into what the fans replicate. And the whole headband thing, oh, my God. Has been the calling card for like 90 different players within the past 10 years. Like, the fact that that is a thing for the Thunder, I think that matters. That's like a data point.
- [51:17]
Tyler Parker
Three of the oldest white people in the world wearing. Wearing white, fun white headbands. Going into game two for the Thunder, I thought they were going to fall apart in front of me. They were sold. But they. They loved him. Some Crusoe, man.
- [51:34]
Rob Mahoney
But Crusoe's a made man after a game like this. There's no question about it. I think. I think Nemhard and Niecemith got to be in there. Not to step on your list, Justin, but I think you can make an argument for almost every supporting Indiana Pacer.
- [51:46]
Justin
Well, Obi Toppin's the last guy, and I. I do think he's a tough one because there are some times where I was like, why is that guy playing? And then there are nights like tonight where it's like, is he the best fucking guy in the court? Like, amazing. Is he better than Carl Anthony Township? The Knicks just built around him.
- [52:01]
Rob Mahoney
See, I. I think. Look again, there's levels to this stuff. I think Obi Toppin, by the end of this run, win or lose, will cement himself as a kind of made man and will have significantly shifted his perception in terms of what his value is as a basketball player and specifically his playoff value. He's not just like, oh, what a great athlete running the floor and dunking in the regular season. He's busting teams open with threes. He's making incredibly athletic plays on defense. He's doing the least ob topping thing possible historically, which is rebound the ball against other people. It's been incredible. I also think, though, like, one game three Ben Matheran game sort of cements the idea in the back of your mind forever that, like, he could just have 27 points in 22 minutes. You know, like, it's.
- [52:42]
Justin
I think you give it away. I think he gave it back. I think it.
- [52:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [52:46]
Justin
Cancels it out. There needs to be a net positive of made menace in order for him to really get the button.
- [52:52]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah. I'm not saying he's as good as these other guys. Just that in terms of, like, his playoff perception, he's always going to be one of those, like, playoff heat check guys from now on.
- [53:00]
Tyler Parker
I think you're right, Rob. I think even if he's not on the Pacers in like three years, if he's on the. The Jazz or something and they're all of a sudden in the playoffs again, I think for sure people will be like. And look, master. And you never know, he could go for. You know what I mean?
- [53:16]
Rob Mahoney
Like, that's, that's the thing.
- [53:18]
Tyler Parker
Just good podcasting with anybody else is like, hey, look, he scored 27. And you know, like, that's for sure. It's not first paragraph of the obit, but it's way up. It's, you know, we're. We're high in the body in the.
- [53:30]
Justin
Outlast campaign in, in the league. It's like, hey, campaign had that game with the Suns.
- [53:36]
Rob Mahoney
One can only help.
- [53:38]
Justin
Yeah, see, yeah, you're right. There are levels there. Those are guys that at the very least, like, we'll remember always. Like when the Pacers go to the finals in 2050 and we're watching this on Mars, like, they will be up in the arena and gain house. Like, just arena.
- [53:55]
Tyler Parker
Like, I think another.
- [53:56]
Justin
Some of the other guys were tonight.
- [53:59]
Tyler Parker
I'm sorry, Justin, I was being very rude there.
- [54:01]
Justin
It was a bad point. You're fine.
- [54:03]
Tyler Parker
No, no, I was the. I think that another guy for the Thunder that deserves some love is Kenridge Williams. Yes. This is a guy who, even more than Isaiah Joe or Aaron Wiggins, the minutes are spotty. They're not always going to roll him out. He'll have a DNP and it's not a surprise, right? Like, they get him in the Steven Adams to New Orleans Pelicans trademark way back in the day. Yeah, he's a throw in, basically. And he gets into the Thunder ecosystem. And slowly they're like, oh, this guy is more than just an offensive rebounder. He can actually handle the ball a little bit. He can shoot it a little bit. And he's also just competitive as hell. He was the guy that the Thunder that was basically like, hey, LeBron can break the record on me. It's fine. I'll go guard him. Like, he's just that kind of guy. He doesn't care. He's there to win.
- [54:59]
Justin
His name is Kenny Hustle.
- [55:00]
Tyler Parker
Hustle. You know, and I've been throwing. I've been throwing out an all, which is big Rich and I don't know, I don't know how it is, but I think it's kind of okay, right?
- [55:09]
Rob Mahoney
I like it.
- [55:11]
Tyler Parker
Is it basketball reference worthy? Probably not. We're not dealing with. We're not dealing with Taliban here with that. Right? Like, that's perfection. But I do think that Big Rich is pretty solid. But no, I like for him to. Because they've gone to him a couple times, you know, or the. Even more than a couple times during this postseason whenever they do want a little bit of a change up if they want to go super duper small, but still like when he gives them good minutes, it's just so huge for the long game for the team too, because other guys can store up reserves for the late third and fourth, you know what I mean? And to see him come in and, you know, Lord knows Siakam was cooking all night. But to make Siakam work, he's a little bit bigger body, right? A little bit taller than some of these other guys. Save Jalen, he's able to just get, I think, a little bit better contest than Caruso or Kayson in those situations. And so what he did tonight. And just offensively, you never feel like he's over his head, really. You know what I mean? He just really plays within himself and. And that he can fit so seamlessly in such spotty minutes in such big games and big moments, I think just says a lot about him. I mean, he had a huge game against, against the Nuggets, I'm pretty sure. Or it might have been against the. Against the Wolves. Again, I have peanut butter up here at this point, but, like, it. I've been. I've just been so impressed with him this postseason and the, the ways that they've used him and that there really hasn't been a time where they brought him out and it's been like, all right, Kenrich, appreciate the time, but go back. You know what I mean? Like, he's always been. He hasn't gotten played off the floor in these situations and that's. They're not putting him out there and asking him to just hide on somebody. You know what I mean? Like, they're asking him to go out there and be a part of the action. And, you know, he's not just some guy who's gonna stand in the corner and shuck. And so I've been. He's. That's a guy who, you know, you talk about somebody who's minted, not in the league, but as a Thunder player, the way Thunder fans feel about that dude that's like a. He's. He's not Collison yet, but they've always sort of him like this generation's Collison. Sure, pretty good. I don't know if he's going to get his jersey retired, but I wouldn't throw a fit if he did this.
- [57:50]
Rob Mahoney
This was one of those games, though, like, low key. One of the little. The little things that mattered in this game. Kenrich Williams, second quarter minutes, he comes in, he plays. He plays like 11 minutes in this game. Four points. Not a huge deal, like, in the box score terms, but comes in screens for Shai, frees him up, gives him an outlet in the middle of the floor when Shai is being hounded. And frankly, when Chet isn't moving well, Isaiah Hardenstein isn't playing well. And so you don't have that, like, pick and roll, short roll, passer. And there was. There was a possession where he got in the middle floor. I think he dumped it off to Crusoe for a layup, and it was like the first breath of fresh air that the Thunder had had in like six minutes. Those are huge plays. Then he gets a leak out bucket in transition, and he's playing good defense, and he always knows where to be. It's like having a guy like that just in the rotation. As you're saying, Tyler, that you can. Yo, yo, in and out, that plays in some matchups and doesn't in others. Invaluable. An invaluable resource for the Thunder. Like, this is what's so interesting about OKC is they are one of the youngest teams in the league. They're still finding their way in so many different respects. They play so deep, and yet they have all of these luxuries that other teams don't have. And some of that is by nature of their youth. Some of it is just by the nature of how brilliantly this team has been constructed. But having Kenrich Williams just kind of waving in the wind when you need him, an incredible thing to have for any team.
- [59:06]
Justin
I think we've just decided that, like, everyone on both rosters are made men except for Isaiah. Joe.
- [59:12]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, this is what happens when you go to the Finals. Like, you get remembered forever for those kinds of runs.
- [59:17]
Justin
Yeah, just get pricked. Why don't we look ahead to the next game? We're tied here. So, Tyler, if I have the chart that they have in medical offices of, like, the 10 smiley faces going from very sad to very happy, like, where are you in terms of your anxiety level going into this next game.
- [59:36]
Tyler Parker
Oh, it's. It's always. I'm, like. I'm in, like, 17 frowny faces always when it comes to this stuff, I must. I'm a cynic at heart and scared to death of this Pacers team. As I wrote for the site, I think that they have enough offensive firepower that they could go into Oklahoma City and steal another one. I don't see why they couldn't, especially if none of the role players for the Thunder can put the ball in the basket like they. You know, like, a lot of them couldn't, at least from. From distance. So I. You know, I'm always. My. My prediction for the series was Thunder and six, and so I'm gonna roll with that, even though now it feels like the smart thing to do would probably be Thunder and seven. Just because I. I've got a lot. I feel like I had a lot of respect for the Pacers coming in just because of how great they've been in the clutch and because it feels like there's something magical about them. You know what I mean? Like, not just. Not just in the way they play offense, but, like, they have been. They are. The. The sun is shining favorably upon them this postseason. You know what I mean? Like, there's something to this run, and. And so absolutely, you know, no more confidence than. I'm at neutral, baby. I'm like the Thunder. You know what I mean? I'm a cliche. Yeah. I'm just trying. I'm trying to. Yeah, I think it'll probably. I'm gonna. I'm gonna roll with Thunder and six, but I know I have no certainties against this Pacer team, as, you know, as much as the Thunder have answered a lot of bells. Right. It's like, ultimately, probably the series should be two.
- [61:32]
Justin
Two.
- [61:32]
Tyler Parker
Right. Like, the Pacers probably should have won tonight, and the Thunder should have won game one. And it's. It feels like. Even though. Even though there's been a couple steals, like, it feels like it's kind of what it should be. And so, yeah, I don't know this. Basically, they feel too resilient to be like, oh, no, we figured them out in that final, you know, whatever.
- [61:57]
Justin
Thunder. The Thunder are 68 win team, and they feel like the underdogs now. Like, I almost feel like it is kind of overcome rising tide of the Pacers. So, Rob, where are you going? To the next one.
- [62:07]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, there's no certainty to be had here. As Tyler said, with anything that's happening, I. I will say, just like, in terms, if you want to zoom out, this is what these series look like when a heavily favored or just a favored team happens to go down two one. Often they win game four. A lot of times they win game five. And that's kind of when the balance of the series starts to turn the. From down to 1 to up 3 2. That's what great teams do. And we're about to find out if the Thunder are a great team or not. We're about to find out if they're worthy of that kind of designation or if they're not quite ready for that particular moment. But I, I just, I'm a little hard pressed to think that they won't at least show up. I, you know, I think we're going to get more competitive games, we're going to get more craziness. We're probably going to get more crunch time heroics from the Pacers. Like, I have no doubt of it, but I think ultimately the Thunder have found their level again in a way that's really meaningful. They haven't solved the series, they haven't cracked the Pacers. You can't. I think it's pretty clear at this point, like, no one is going to keep that team down for extended stretches. But their defensive performance in the fourth quarter and ultimately getting one of these, like, psychological crunch time wins, I think is just a huge development for them in this series.
- [63:16]
Tyler Parker
I think another big thing for the Thunder and one of the reasons that it's. I feel even a little bit better about the game outside of the great comeback at the end is, you know, they've got by and large, the Thunder did not play a good first half of basketball or at least not near what they can. Right. And to only be down what they were down at half, I can't. Was it seven or something? I can't remember or whatever. But they, you know, the, the Pacers were trying to stretch a lead out there and then for the, for the final, like 17 possessions of that second quarter, I think the Pacers only score 15 points. You know what I mean? Like, that's. To be able to do that to the Pacers at home in a game where they came out hot and you could tell they were like, we need to try to like blow this thing open early and see if we can get them to blink a little bit that the Thunder kind of stayed the course and we're able to string together some stops there in the second quarter and kind of stem the tide and just keep things close, you know, to not let to not let go of the rope in the way that in the way that can happen against the Pacers. That was not more encouraging, but it's a, it's a massive part of why I feel a little bit better than I even would after the the comeback. But that said, I have zero confidence either direction on what's going to happen.
- [64:47]
Justin
Listen, if the Pacers take two in OKC like no team has this postseason, we're on a goddamn magic carpet ride to destiny, my friends. Like all bets are off and so I can't wait to see it. I think we'll be back after Game 5 on Monday. Wise, if he gets through customs, I believe will be with us.
- [65:07]
Rob Mahoney
But he's actually being interviewed Justin for the New York Knicks head coaching job. That's why he's not with us tonight.
- [65:14]
Tyler Parker
Good luck. Was I'm sending James an email. He's a friend. I'll let him know.
- [65:20]
Justin
Worldwide Was it was all in the yes. So thanks to Tyler for joining us. Thank you to Isaiah, thank you to Ben Cruz, thank you to John Richter and Victoria Valencia on the video side of things. We'll be back on Monday. We will talk to you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit RG help gamblinghealth.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.