Loading summary
Transcript117 lines
- [00:02]
A
This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's international tournament is here and Ferrero is going All In. Enter for your shot at a range of prizes just by buying your favorites like Tic Tac Fresh Mints Cool, Minty and Simple or Halo Top Ice Cream loaded with Crave worthy mix ins in every bite and half the calories of leading competitors. Go all in. Buy any two Ferrero brands and you could win $1,000,000. Official rules apply. Learn more at goallinandwin.com.
- [00:39]
B
What's Poppin Bruins Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck and Roger Bell in a second. We talk things all Game three of the Western Conference Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the San Antonio Spurs. Then we get into a little talk about the Cavaliers Nick series. We didn't get to talk about game one or two and we didn't get to talk about the travesty of James Harden's defense. So we get into all of that. We get into a real good R1 of the week. Really, really fun episode. Y' all know how we do Real Ones after dark? Make sure you tap into Real ones mailbag@gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com real ones mailbag gMail.com not playing. We'll talk to you guys on Tuesday for now Real Ones right now right now right now right now. Cliff
- [01:23]
C
the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals are here. Think you know how it'll go down? Take your shot with FanDuel and get closer to the action. FanDuel is the best place to bet the team's players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 plus select states 818 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, call 1-888-789777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut.
- [02:08]
B
What's popping Real Ones Logan Murdoch here, harder back there. Raja Bell there in a hotel room. Some luxury hotel in the middle of the country and we are here talking to you guys after 123, 108 Oklahoma City Thunder victory Now Raja I this is my thesis on the series. First series the first game of the series. Excuse me, Oklahoma City played Scared and the second game of the series Oklahoma City decided not to play scared in one. And in game three of the series they decided to get into San Antonio's head, not only their head, but the crowd's head in general and kind of took control of the series, right? What is this a championship level win by them that is just in this moment of the night? Or is this, did they figure out San Antonio? What did you see tonight from this victory from OKC and what was like the biggest things that stood out?
- [03:06]
A
I think this is a combination of things like obviously, you know, you want to see championship level teams and you know, they are championship level teams when they respond the way OKC has after losing game one at home in the fashion they lost it. But I do think that they figured some things out with San Antonio first and foremost. You alluded to the fact that they're way more decisive with the ball. You started to see it in game two and I think you just saw it, the trend continue in game three. Like there's a lot of, you know, playing out of that double team. Whoever catches that ball, they are making a decisive move. Getting into the paint, the ball's popping around the perimeter. Guys are shooting with confidence, even shots that are getting blocked at times, like we talked about that after game one. They're shooting them like they, they've made their mind up that they're going to be aggressive. And so, yeah, I mean, look, if you're, if you're okay, see, this can sound crazy, but like, there's a part of me that's like, hey, we should be on fucking three zero right now. You know, like, and, and you know, San Antonio, we're really going to find out kind of what they're made of. I fully expect them to be game. I pick them in game four. But we're, we're going to find out now it's, it's their turn to answer the bell to see if they're made of the championship level type of stuff that people think they are.
- [04:28]
B
Howard, I mean, they went on a 150 run, the spurs did, to start this, this game. And like, I'm just thinking like, oh shit, like San Antonio's figured it out. I. They're going to be the, the next champions for, you know, the next five, six, seven years. And this is just what it's going to be. The tables have turned and then you start to see from the spurs, like what we've kind of been talking about all season, right, where they are, this bohemian team, they are great. And granted, de' Aaron Fox was hobbled, granted, all of the granted, right. But then you start seeing what we were talking about throughout the season, where we Wanted them to see at this point where they get tested and we. This was the game, of all the playoff games where they showed the most immaturity. Right where they, they let the crowd get into it in a negative way where, you know, the fouls are the fouls of the fouls. And they, it seemed like that got underneath their skin. What did you see from the immaturity and the youthfulness of the San Antonio spurs? And can they kind of come overcome that as the series goes along? Because as the series seems to go along, it seems to be advantage OKC when it comes to the maturity of it all.
- [05:35]
C
The way they came out, you know, that 150 blast to start it, I mean, it really did look like the spurs are ready to seize control. I don't know if I was ready to jump five steps ahead to win the series, win the championship, win the next five championships. Logan, you might have gotten a little carried away with 15. Oh, but excited.
- [05:51]
B
Man, I'm. I'm off coffee right now, bro. All the superlatives are in play at this point. I'm sorry. It's. It's real. Was after dark. I don't know what you expect from me. It gets a little loopy around this time.
- [06:00]
C
All fair and 15. Oh, it. It really did. It looked like, all right, these guys, they've just got it on lock and they've got the confidence, they've got the timing, everything. They're in sync with each other. They know how to execute against this team. But, you know, we know how the NBA goes. Those, those, those kinds of things don't necessarily hold up all the time. I'm not sure there's any one thing I would take from this game other than obviously this is the Jared McCain game now officially, it definitely isn't Philadelphia. He outscored the entire spurs bench. 6. Man of the year Keldon Johnson, nowhere really to be found for the, for the, the spurs tonight. Dylan Harper, granted, you know, he was a gametime decision and he played, but he was pretty muted. Six points on seven shots. So there just wasn't a lot of pop from the spurs supporting cast in general. Darren Fox comes back and, you know, it looked like he was going to be out for good again after Dort rolls into his ankle. It just never looked like anybody, any one guy could get it going consistently tonight. And credit the Thunder defense for some of that. I don't, I. I don't know that there's a lot else to read into it. The spurs are not to give them excuses. They are operating with two of their three most important players, two of their three best guards, not at a hundred percent right now. And Wimby had a very good game by mortal standards, but he did not have an absolutely dominant game or certainly not up to the, the Wemby standards that we've seen. Sometimes that means he, you know, he's got, you know, six or seven blocks. Sometimes it means he's got 30, 35 points. Tonight it was, you know, 26 points, four, four rebounds for Wemby, three assists, two blocks like it was fine. It wasn't dominant. And in a series like this, you need dominant. And Shay after that quiet first quarter, was dominant the rest of the way. And you can complain all you want, folks, about foul baiting, this, that, whatever, falling down, everything else. Tom Haberstro's study of, of players that fall down a lot, concluding that Shay does indeed fall down more than any other player in the NBA. Whatever you want to say about it, the, the dude scored a ton of points, got to the line, got guys in, in foul trouble and, you know, here we are. Thunder up 2 1. They've got home court advantage back.
- [08:33]
B
I want to go back to the, to one of the points that you made and throw it to Raja where we talked about Wimby's, the defense on Wimby. Excuse me, in the Game one the last time we talked about the series and it was basically, we're going to have Caruso guard him and face guard him, and then we're going to have a shot blocker over the top. Game two, OKC says we're just going to put Hartenstein on them. We're going to kick the shit out of them. We're just gonna, we're not even gonna hide it. And I think game three was a mix of all of those things. Homegrown got a piece of them. They did the Caruso face guarding and then they, they, they just switched it up a lot more. They gave him a lot more looks and you kind of see that like every. That's what I kind of was frustrated about. I think with Game one from the Thunders, you know, defensive strategy is because with young guys like Victor Wooden, Binyama, you've seen it throughout NBA history, right? Where Katie's first series against Ron Artest, Jordan's first series against whomever, right? The key to young stars and playing against young stars is just switching things up right defensively and trying to get them in a bind and trying to figure out where the help is. All that to ask, what did you think of the defense and just switching things up against Wimanyama and like, what is his counter to what the Oklahoma City is doing through three games or two games? Actually.
- [09:51]
A
Yeah, the key, the key to any star is switching things up. If you give any player of that level the same look over and over and over again, you're. You may have success through a certain portion of that game, but eventually they're as great as they are because they figure those things out and they figure out how to, you know, take advantage of what it is you're. You're actually trying to do. So, you know, I would argue that that's, that's for any star. It can be particularly confusing, though, for younger stars that aren't used to, you know, having to make those adjustments on the fly in the moments that mean the most, especially the playoffs, the deeper you get into the playoffs. I think they've done a really good job. You know, I think, you know, in game two, you didn't see as much of the quote unquote kind of junk, you know, defense. It was, it was basically, hey, you're going to have to deal with Hartenstein and his, you know, six fouls and his physicality, and we're just going to
- [10:53]
B
try to grab your arm in front of the camera. I don't even care. I'm going to grab you. I'm going to do whatever I need to do.
- [10:59]
A
Yeah. And look, that's, that's just, you know, part of the game. I, you know, it's funny, man, because, like, in my house, I had, I had. Ty and Dia and Zen were home, but, like, four of their friends were there. And then my folks came over to watch. Everybody is crying for Wemby. Like, everybody is crying. They're fouling him.
- [11:22]
B
He's 7 4.
- [11:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, it was just fascinating to listen to this, but, like, that was, that was the strategy they employed. And then there is a chess game within the, you know, chess game. Like, from game to game, we've got to make these adjustments. So, you know, San Antonio's going back and they're figuring out all right, if they're going to play Hartenstein on him for extended periods of time. And that's the only look we're going to get. Well, here's what we're doing as a Spurs offense to get Wemby going against that particular defense. And I thought going with the hybrid of the two tonight was a great call by, by okc, a great call because you just off balance, you're just, you're, you know, they're going to make a move and so you preemptively make a move, but it's not too cute either way. You're not staying in either one for extended periods of time. I thought it was a really kind of masterfully called game against him defensively. He and the spurs need to figure out a way to get like, to get in the paint. Like he, he can't be floating around the perimeter as much as he's floating around the perimeter. He's just, you know, I told you I would play Isaiah on him more in game two and make him have to earn him. Go down there and earn them, dog. Like, get, get down there. Get him down there with, with catches in areas where he can really take advantage of that size in that way. I think points in the paint were even tonight. The glass was even tonight. You know, there if you're going to, if OKC is going to play San Antonio even in the paint on the free throw line, that was even. Just about all that is even. San Antonio's gonna have a hard time beating them.
- [12:55]
B
And the other thing was like, it was the on off splits though with Victor on and off, right. They go on the 15, 0 spurt and then they take him off the floor and San Antonio's kind of lost without him.
- [13:06]
A
Right.
- [13:06]
B
Like, it, it, especially against a team like OKC with a guy not only of Shay's caliber, but you see the other guys and you see their depth really kind of come into the fold. Right?
- [13:17]
A
It's 70 some bench points tonight.
- [13:20]
B
Yeah. And then A.J. mitchell is hurt, but you got Jared McCain. Right. And then you got Caruso who can't miss from 3 point land. All of a sudden he's shooting 60% from 3 point range in this series after shooting 29. I believe in the last series you have all of this depth and let's, let's, let's, let's talk a little bit about Jared McCain and he's a guy that Torres ACL was. We're gonna make Cliff very sad during this segment, but Torres ACL is cast off because, you know, the Sixers VJX comb comes into the fold. They, they, they sold high on him. Shout out Darren Mory and he comes into this Oklahoma City team is just one of the guys, finally gets his opportunity tonight and kind of shows what he, what he is and what he can be. And then you have that kind of caliber coming into a team that's already stacked. Howard, like, what does that do to for a team like this?
- [14:23]
C
I mean, it's I think this is why people even outside of Philly were kind of upset about the B trade at the time. Because it's like, oh, like OKC needs yet another great shooter off the bench, another score, another guy who could do some stuff with the ball in his hands. Like, they already had the best depth in the NBA, you know, among all the contenders. And McCain added another dimension to that. The thing with role players is, and with young players is you might have a 24 point night like McCain had tonight, but you can't rely on it every night. Right. But if you, if it's sometimes, you know, like last year was sometimes an Aaron Wiggins or an Isaiah Joe, and this year, you know, it's going to be McCain at times, and it could be the other guys too. It just, it just gives them yet one more way to go. And especially now that J Dub is once again on the shelf and AJ Mitchell is starting and he was, you know, obviously, you know, big part of their, their bench potency this season. Now you need somebody to backfill that. Well, Jared McCain's kind of doing that not with the same level of dynamism of AJ Mitchell, obviously, but he's just a great shooter. The bench here. Latest stat from, from our friend Kir Thika. Kirika. I believe I'm going to get this right eventually. Um, OKC's bench outscored the spurs bench by 53 points tonight. 76, 23. And of course, McCain was, was a big chunk of that. That is the largest bench differential in a conference finals game since the league started tracking starters. I don't know what year the league started tracking starters, but I'm going to think that's a long, long time ago. Um, and this is the biggest bench differential in the conference finals in whatever that number of years is. So, yeah, don't know if Jared McCain would have changed anything at all for the Sixers when they got smoked by the Knicks in the second round. But he's certainly making a very big impact on the Thunder.
- [16:22]
B
Definitely could have helped, Roger.
- [16:23]
A
Yo, you would, it would have definitely helped. I, I, yeah, it's hard to predict whether he would have changed anything, but he would have helped. Like before I even touch on the physical, you know, tools, him putting the ball in the bucket, stretching the floor and I, you know, once he starts feeling good, he was making plays, man. Like, he's making plays in the paint. He was making plays, you know, in the paint and then spraying it out to other people. But I think maybe even more importantly, when we talk after game one. And you. You kind of asked what the difference was in these last couple games. And I talked about their. Their. Their kind of level of fearlessness, right? They're not. They don't seem afraid in that way anymore or just tentative or whatever the word is you want to use to describe it. He's got a level of fearlessness to him, and we talk about stars all the time. And, yeah, man, I've got to see that look in your eye. If I'm a role player and you're the star, and I want to know that you're solid. But, man, if you got. If you got role guys, guys coming off your bench who are equally as fearless and are. And are showing that they are with the shits on any given night, in any given series, that is a big boost for your team before they score 26, 27 points. Just. Just. They're in the fight and they're swinging and they're taking the fight to the other team. He was one of the first people I saw in this series taking on Wemby. Like, go back and look like there were a few times in Game one where he was, like, driving the ball in there and in a weird way looked like he was the most unafraid of the situation. So he's. He's been big for them. Not just. Not just in terms of the output, but in terms of the attitude sometimes.
- [18:04]
B
Like, you know, like, I felt like the beginning of this. Of this series in Game 1. I felt like the spurs were just in OKC's head, like, because of what happened throughout the regular season. And they played that way, right? Like, you know, they were. They were playing scared of when we. When they were going into the paint. And you kind of saw towards the end, like, one of the things that I've learned just covering the league is you never turn the game off because you can see little things that can get you a clue of what the team is going to do in the next game, the losing team is going to do in the next game, in the final few minutes, right? And there were. There was. There was a Jared McCain plays that you were talking about, but there was also that shade dunk we talked about in the waning moments as well, right, where he was just like this. I'm not going to be scared anymore of.
- [18:49]
C
Of.
- [18:49]
B
I'm going to show this team that we're not going to be scared of this one guy, right? And they took that attitude going into Game two and by extension, Game three. But another person that I want to Shout out. Raja is, is Jay Will, because he was one of the guys that, that in the first quarter when they were down 15, he was hitting a few threes and he kind of got the basket open for them. And I, and I would argue that he was the catalyst for the rest of that bench, including Jared McCain. Right. Because there was another moment where it was like, oh, shit, we're down. And Jay Will was like, no, fuck that. We are going to take it to them. And then we're off to the races after that. What kind of. When you, When I, when I talk about Jay Will and what he does, what does that do to galvanize a team when you are down like that? But you know, you can beat this team, but you, you kind of need to see it for. You got to see it first before you actually do it.
- [19:42]
A
Yeah, well, yeah, shout out to him. You know, it would fall into the Jarrett McCain category, like of. Of player. That if you are getting that level of, of fearlessness from them, it is a big boost. But specific to like when you as the. If 99% of the rest of the team doesn't have it. Someone like that having, you know, a run of 15 or whatever it was in a quarter just to keep you afloat is critical. It just keeps you tethered to the game from a score standpoint. Like if, if he's not making those, it's, you know, we're too far. You know, we're not really in reach here. We're going to keep playing. But there's, you know, there's a point in an NBA game, even in the playoffs, where it gets so out of hand where you're like, oh, fuck, like this isn't going to happen. You start thinking about whether you should get some rest or not. You know, like anything can happen. But he just keeps you close enough. Keeps you, you know, it just keeps you in the game in a way where you feel like any little spurt gets you right within striking distance. And you know that's the difference in game sometimes, right? Like if that winds up ballooning and you're sitting at 20 some, it's a completely different ball game than he.
- [20:53]
D
This episode is brought to you by Weathertech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weathertech floor liners in the summer. Unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those. WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud you're inevitably gonna step into the summer, you don't need Weathertech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi, Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply Services not available in all areas.
- [21:51]
A
It's that three and now it's 12.
- [21:53]
B
Jamal Crawford, friend of the podcast said he said this is about McCain, but I think it really relates to Oklahoma City's bench. He said this after McCain's like the and one in the second half. He said Jared McCain doesn't win you quarters, he wins you minutes. Sometimes. That's just, that's even, that's just as important as doing that. And I feel like Howard, like we talk about Oklahoma City's bench and I think that's the key to them, right? Like you look at this, you look at the box score, nothing's like overly impressive here other than The Jared became 24 points. But you see a lot of guys that win this team minutes, right? And like kind of and I think what that does is it, it takes the pressure off of, you know, Oklahoma City stars, you know, Chet still trying to get his, his stuff together, you know, five of seven on four, 14. But they got a lot of guys that can win you minutes that will ultimately win you quarters.
- [22:44]
C
And they got more of those guys than the spurs do right now. And also like, you know, lest we lose track of it, this is the first time through for pretty much the entire spurs lineup other than Dear and Fox, who just finally played his first game in the series tonight and is still hobbled and a little bit of Harrison Barnes. But like for everybody else, for, you know, for, for Wemby, for Castle, Vassell, Harper, it's, this is all new to them and so you know, it, it's harder at this stage of the season. Nothing comes as easy. And you know that you're going to have more variance in players at that level who are young, who are not used to the every other day pace of, of the playoffs and trying to produce day after day. The Thunder been through this before and I think that matters a little bit too. Jalen Williams, you know, big Jalen Williams, the one who played tonight, the one who's still healthy like a year ago does. I mean, I'd have to. Look, I may be wrong, but, like, he goes for 18 tonight. He took it to them, know, multiple times in a row there in, in the, in the fourth quarter when they're holding off every charge. I don't know. Is, is there an 18 point game on his resume from last year's playoff run? I don't recall if there was. I, I feel like he was much more of a bit player, but he's a guy who's ready to step into a little bit more responsibility the next time through. And, you know, this time next year, I'm not writing off the spurs by any stretch, but if they don't make it through this time next year, Harper, Castle, Vesel and Wemby are going to be that much more prepared for the moment, too.
- [24:29]
B
Yeah, this was his playoff career high.
- [24:31]
C
There you go.
- [24:32]
B
This one was 14 points.
- [24:34]
C
Yeah, like, he was a bit player last year, but, you know, between the injury to the other Jaylen Williams, J Dub, and just his own personal growth, obviously, and his ability to fill that role, you know, you're, you're seeing, you know, a lot more of what he can do and, you know, that's, you know, this, this is why experience matters in this league.
- [24:55]
B
What do you want to see from each team, Roger, next game?
- [25:01]
A
Oh, yeah, if I'm, if I'm okc, I'd like to see just that same level of commitment to getting downhill. You know, the shots come and go. Like, obviously, it'd be great if they, if they make the spurs pay for the double and then they're able to attack four on three and really get that ball popping to where they find that open shooter. But just being committed to doing it with pace and, and, and aggressiveness, I'm okay with. I'd like to see them, you know, can continue to keep Wemby out of the paint to whatever degree they can, keep him drifting around that perimeter, keep him away from the basket, both sides of the ball. You know, it's. It's obviously to their benefit to have him out there and a bunch of actions to keep him away from the rim. And then offensively, you know, if he wants to wander around the perimeter and make, you know, make tough moves to get his shot off every now and again, I'm going to live with that. It's just the opposite for, for, for San Antonio. I'd like to see them healthy. Like, if, if, if we can miraculously get those two feeling a lot better over the next couple Days that's going to help dramatically. I got. You have to find ways to get Wemby closer to the rim. I mean, he's such an unstoppable force when you're just throwing the ball up there, like no one can reach that. We have to figure out a way to move him around and get him closer to the rim. I'd actually like to see them play them straight up a little bit more. I'd like to see San Antonio play Shea straight up a little bit more to the, to the same logic that you're using with Wemby. You know, like you keep showing him that double. That's three games of it now, now I'll be it. I think I saw it a little less. I'd be interested to know what the, what the. What the number said about how many times they did it tonight versus what they did in game one. But OKC's gotten a beat and a rhythm on that. We just, I just talked about it for a whole segment. I'd like to see you throw us another wrinkle at it. I, uh, maybe that's some, some more zone. Maybe that's, you know, I don't know. It's. It's late. My brain's not working. But what I'm saying is OKC seems to have a rhythm for, for what you strategize would be the, the number one, you know, priority defense for you against, against Shay. Shea was super patient as usual, and then he still winds up doing what he did. So I'd like to see some of those guys have to fend for themselves a little bit.
- [27:28]
B
Yeah, he's due for another game. He had a game in game two, but he's shooting 39 from the field and 20, 28 from three with the series. But I mean, he's controlling the game throughout the time now. Raja. Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead.
- [27:41]
A
No, no, no. I mean, like, because, because I mean, statistically speaking, I guess you would look at that and say we're doing a pretty damn good job. And like, so you. It's really pick your poison, right? Like there's part of me that's, hey, if, if J will and, and you know, McCain and, and the like are going to beat me as the Spurs. I got to tip my hat to you and say fucking good job, guys like you beat us. Shay's not going to be the two time MVP is not going to beat me. Right? Like we're not. If I could control that. I'm living with you mofos beating me And I. And I typically would agree with that. I think that there's a. There's a. There's a, like, happy medium of moving, you know, moving in and out of those looks a little better, you know, so they don't just consistently get the beat on it in that way. And so, you know, I'd just be interested to see what they do with that.
- [28:33]
B
Now, Raja, there was a little brouhaha tonight, and, you know, you are a brouhaha correspondent, and there was a lot of hold me back, but that's not even the part that really triggered me. That wasn't the part that's.
- [28:45]
A
That wasn't even part of the trigger. It wasn't even a fucking flagrant foul, man. It wasn't even a fucking flagrant foul. What are we doing? What are we fucking doing? It's too late for this bullshit. I've been up since fucking six in the morning. I'm in a fucking shitty hotel in Kansas City. What the fuck? It's not even a flagrant foul. He ran him down. He made a play on a fucking ball. Yeah. He had his hand in his back. We're Both moving at 100 miles an hour going that way. You don't think he's going to fucking fall down? Sorry, that's ridiculous.
- [29:16]
B
That wasn't even the part that triggered me. Wasn't even the part that triggered me on your behalf. The part that triggered me on my. On. On. On your behalf is that they showed. I believe it was Isaiah Joe trying to shake one of the. Trying to shake his way to do nothing. Trying to shake one of the security guards to do absolutely nothing.
- [29:34]
C
That was fantastic.
- [29:35]
B
And then it was really, to add insult to injury, either Reggie Miller or. And. Or Crawford said that. Oh, the last time we were here, wasn't that when the spurs played the Suns and the whole bunch of injections happened right at that scores table? I was like, come on, bro. Come on, Raj.
- [29:53]
C
I thought that was in Phoenix.
- [29:54]
B
No, no, no, that was in San Antonio.
- [29:56]
A
It was. It was in San Antonio. It was. It happened right at the scores table, right by, like, where Mike d', Antoni, like, right. Right next to our bench.
- [30:04]
C
But that.
- [30:04]
A
The general. The general area where Amari and Boris, I believe, crossed onto the court was like, right where he made his fake. So it was. I got. My phone blew up, like, immediately. As soon as that happened, the phone started.
- [30:18]
C
Yeah.
- [30:18]
A
Text.
- [30:19]
B
Well, did you feel. Did you feel triggered by that? Did that. Are you used to when people bring that up, it's like, okay. Or like, Because I felt like it was a cheap shot. They didn't have to bring that up. That has nothing to do with the series.
- [30:29]
A
No, I didn't think it was cheap. I didn't take it that way. I wasn't sure I wasn't triggered by it. It was. It was. I thought it was kind of funny the way he just kind of faked at it. And the assistant coach was like, well,
- [30:38]
B
he wasn't going to do anything, though. Like, he wasn't going to do anything.
- [30:41]
C
He was. No, he was. He was totally messing around. But I'm with Raja, like, that's barely, barely, barely a flagrant foul. Like, I. We've seen so much more than that. And it's like, okay, he's airborne and you touched him. But, like, it wasn't like a hard shove. It wasn't like there was nothing there. I frankly thought Castle overreacted and then Vassell overreacted to the react. Overreact. Like there's just a whole chain of stupid events.
- [31:06]
B
Yeah, Castle. Castle was about to punch somebody and was like. No, actually. No, actually, relax.
- [31:11]
C
I think Castle was still pissed off from the Caruso foul.
- [31:14]
A
Yes.
- [31:16]
C
Before. So he was just like, he was just. He was just tense. He was just waiting off on somebody.
- [31:21]
B
Let.
- [31:21]
A
Let me like Howard. It's a, you know, just a piggyback. They have the spurs to some degree, and this is a win for okc. You've been distracted. Like, that's, That's a distraction. Like, the physicality is a distraction. Wemby's, you know, we talked about it kind of in the Minnesota series, you know, when Wemby was like, you know, he's pre game warming up. They showed it on the broadcast with people grabbing him and holding him. And. And that's not your normal warmup. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that You're. You're already factoring that in. And then I would just say the Shay of it all, if you watch every time he gets a call, the reaction from a San Antonio defender, I think it's. I do. I think it's distracted them a little bit. To what degree? Probably negligible. I don't know if it's worth a couple points or whatever, but, I mean, you're dealing with, you know, this. These games are one or lost in the margins, largely, and this late in playoff series, and you just can't afford to be distracted in that way. But play ball. He's going to get calls. You're good. It's going to be physical. Play ball.
- [32:28]
B
I think that. I mean, we talk about this a lot from. Is interesting you reference Minnesota, because we talk about how much Minnesota takes on the personality of their superstar. I do think that San Antonio, for better or worse, takes on the personality of Wimby. And Wimby, like, he buys into all the stuff, everything, because he uses his motivation. But on the flip side, it's like, yo, man, like, you kind of have to. Blinders, bro. Blinders. And that's something that I just want to, like, tell them. Like, it's like, yes, they do foul. Yes, they do get fouls called against them, but that's the growth and the
- [33:04]
A
maturity of it all, I guess.
- [33:05]
B
Right? But I just be like, wimby, yo, chill out, bro. Like, you're the best player on the floor, arguably, right? Yeah, just be the best player on the floor.
- [33:15]
A
Yeah. I mean, yes. I mean, yeah, bro. You. I don't. I don't think you need to be uber concerned. Look, the physicality. Every NBA star that we felt was generational has dealt with other teams using physicality to try to move them off of their spot. It's just there are very few people that are physically gifted enough to stop you by just lining up in front of you and. And. And trying to block your shot. Like, it just doesn't work. It didn't work. Like, people couldn't do it to Kobe, so we tried to rough him up. People couldn't do it to mj, so you try to rough them up. People couldn't do it to Braun early. Steph. Like, you try to rough them up. It's what you try to do. You're no different in that regard. But. But.
- [33:56]
B
But, like,
- [33:59]
A
you know, where. Where I see it manifesting itself is like, look, man, there. There were times where I would argue a call. Don't get me wrong. Like, I wasn't one of those dudes that. That. That just walked away every time I fouled someone. And you called it. But there's certainly times where I know you f. I fouled them. Like, and where I thought, like, Steph Castle in particular was kind of tilted tonight after those two fouls on him. You know, I saw him multiple times. A foul. Like, you fouled Shay. This is not debatable, bro. Like, you.
- [34:26]
C
You.
- [34:26]
A
This is a foul, and you're still kind of bent out of shape about it. And I don't think you're necessarily just bent out of shape about that call. I think it was a culmination of things that distracted you to. Now everything's just got you Reacting that way. And the spurs are a really good team, but if they have multiple guys in that headspace, they're not good enough. Yeah.
- [34:48]
B
The key thing, though, and this is like, from this series and also the series that I, I saw them play, OKC play against Phoenix is like, typically Shay is playing against the other team's point guard. So when he's playing against the other team's point guard, that is a leader of the other team's offense, right? So you get them, the point guard bent out of shape, that's going to manifest and trickle down throughout the rest of the team.
- [35:10]
A
Right.
- [35:10]
B
And it's particularly with the spurs, and we said this in the last podcast, which is they need their point guards to be calming forces. And when you're at Stephanie Stefan Castle not being a common, calm force and you're letting people get into your head, you're fucking it up for your offense, right? And like, you can see it manifest through the first two games. I think you have like 20 turnovers. I think that's far and away the, the. The most turnovers ever by a, by a single player in the postseason through two games. But, like, you could sense this getting into his head where he needs to be a common force, calming force for that team. So that's something to look at. Let's take a quick break and we are going to talk Knicks, Cavs. This episode is brought to you by NBC and Peacock. All right, guys, it's officially that time. You can feel it right away. Every possession matters more. Every mistake costs more. Every shot can swing everything. This is when the biggest stars shine on the biggest stage. Because this is the test. This is what the whole season's been building to watch the NBA playoffs on NBC and Peacock. It's playoff time and we are back to talk Cavs, Knicks, in a segment that is sponsored by Ferrero. Let's talk game one really quickly. Let's just like, let's see. Let's just level, set and get back, get our listenership up to game three as the series shifts back to Cleveland. Howard, I believe you were at both of those games. Did the Knicks just feel just invincible at this point? Right. Are they going to lose anytime soon? Like, what the hell is going on here? What's going on? What's the vibe in New York City as we throw it to Cleveland?
- [36:44]
C
So, funny thing is, if you were to just walk into the Garden in the middle of the third quarter of game one on. What was that Tuesday, I don't know how you'd get into the Garden. But if you snuck in past all the vast security apparatus and all the facial recognition software and you popped into the Garden in the middle of the third quarter, you think, is there a church service going on here? Cause this place is pretty quiet. Might have been the quietest I've ever heard the Garden for a game of consequence, because the Cavs were up. They'd been controlling the game, and as we all know now they were up by 22 in the fourth quarter before they blew that entire lead. When it started getting around like 1513 and Knicks fans are starting to feel it, then that place came alive. Like you, it was as loud as anywhere you've ever been. And I don't know, like, I have been to many, many very loud, intense, just raucous Knicks games, and I've been to some clunkers where it's a little quiet. This was the first time I can remember where it was both. It was the two extremes in the same night because Knicks fans were out of it. There was like. It didn't also. It's just been a really muddy game. Like the Cavs were up, but they weren't playing well. The Knicks weren't playing well. It was all just, it was just kind of a, kind of a dull, kind of muddy game. And then the Knicks took over. Brunson starts hitting all these shots, Shamon hits that crazy shot, and the place just absolutely comes alive. And I do think people came out of game one to get us to Game two. Now people came out of Game one, I think with this feeling of, well, if the Cavs can't hold 22 point lead, as dispiriting as that would be, when you're this close to stealing home court advantage and getting that, that critical road win, how can they possibly come back in the series? I didn't buy that line of thinking because this is a veteran team. James Harden has been part of, let's just say, other collapses before in his career. I don't think he was going to be daunted by a single Game one loss. I, I mean that sincerely, even though I'm also, yes, making fun of the fact that he's been involved in a lot of collapses. Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Max Dr. Like, this is a veteran lineup. This is not some young team that's here for the first time. I thought they would be level, set, they would come into game two and they were, they came into game two. They played really competitively for about a half and then it just got away from them. They. After being burned by Brunson in Game one. Now you're probably overcompensating by shading too much toward him. In game two. He scored less, but he had, whatever it was, 13 assists or something, 15 assists. Like he's. He's just hitting everybody else, especially Josh Hart. That's the guy you have to leave. And the Cavs come out of that game saying, talk about process a lot. Like, the process was good and you can't really argue the point on offense. They got a bunch of open shots for guys like Sam Merrill and Streuss. All their shooters got open shots. Dean, Dean, Wade, and they just missed most of them. They shot terribly unopened shots. Process was good defensively. Process is fine. That you've got to leave somebody and you're not leaving Towns because he's an ace shooter and you're not leaving Mikhail Bridges or Ojananobi, and you certainly aren't leaving Brunson. And you were trying to. And you're trying to double Brunson to get the ball out of his hands or make it harder on him. So Josh Hart goes off. How many games is that going to happen if the same thing plays out the next time? Is Josh Hart going to make all those same shots and burn you again? The. The percentages in the history would say no. But like, I. The Cavs are down 2.
- [40:17]
B
0.
- [40:19]
C
One pretty big, you know, convincing loss in. In game two. One just completely like it was 80, 20. By the way, the Knicks took that game, but they get about 20 to 30% of. Of the. The credit there. And the CAVs get like 70, 80% of the blame for just gagging it. Cause if you're the team that had the 22 point lead, it's mostly on you for letting it happen. But I think the Cavs, you know, go back to Cleveland still feeling all right. Like, they haven't been home in a week because Game 7 was in Detroit before this series. I do think there's concerns with Donovan Mitchell's health. I think there's probably some concerns with their overall fatigue level because they won't talk about it. Dude, they're not. That's the thing, man. Like, it's. This is going to be one of those ones where once the series is over, it's going to leak out.
- [41:03]
B
Like, yeah, yeah, it's going to be a LeBron cast. He's going to. He's going to come out and crushes.
- [41:09]
C
We're going to go find out. He's going for torso replacement surgery or something. Yeah, some. Something's up, but, you know, look, he's. He's still, he's still scoring, he's still able to do some stuff, but he doesn't look exactly right.
- [41:23]
B
Raja, as a defender who prides himself on defense, how demoralizing was it to watch James Harden just become a turnstile at the end? I just haven't seen. I haven't heard your. Was that terror? Was that terrifying? Did you. The tears come down your eyes like, what happened?
- [41:38]
A
No, I mean, look, you can only do what you can do. Like, James Harden's never been a defensively, like a defensive like piece. He's never been defensively, you know, kind of minded, if you will, having him out there, I don't, I don't blame him for that. At the advanced age that he is, like, everybody, as they get older than the NBA, what's the thing that they kind of. What's the side of the ball that most of them take off? Like Kobe at the end, what was the side of the ball that he was taking off on? What does LeBron struggle with it? Like it was ever. Anyone who ages that defense is going to slip. Like, they can still do cool things with the ball in their hands. And I say all that to say that I don't, I don't blame James. Like, it was a, it was a complete meltdown as a staff, there was a complete meltdown. Like, organizationally, like someone should have someone that record label, everybody just blew that dude.
- [42:33]
B
Like, so it's the ball somehow get blamed.
- [42:37]
A
You know, that particular game I was locked in less on the defense and more on the offense because I was trying to, you know, I want my son Ty to be like Rick. I mean, like Jalen Brunson. Like, you know, he's a six two and a half guard and Jalen does some things with craft and footwork and body bumping that I just think are like incredible tools to try to steal from a guy. So I was locked in on the offense. I don't think it was a James Harden issue as much as physically it was, but I mean, he just never was great at defending. And you're asking him to continually switch on the best or one of the best closers in the NBA with a bag full of tricks, like, that's a recipe for disaster. So I didn't have a beef with that. I would say this about this series, though. I think that the Cavs are game. I don't think that losing that first game cost them the series necessarily, but they're. Every day that this series stretches is A problem for the Cavs, like they're not getting better. They're not like their legs, they're two seven game series in, right. Playing every other night now like that that is really going to take them.
- [43:52]
B
And they're not a young team either, right? Like they're not.
- [43:54]
A
Yeah, it's going to take a toll. So they could be game, they could be there to play. I don't think they folded the tent or don't believe they can beat New York, but there's just going to come a point where physically they don't have it.
- [44:06]
B
Listen, man, if I'm New York right now, I'm seeing blood and I want to sweep this. I mean for a number of reasons, right? You want to get out of a series, but if you're, if you look on the other side of that bracket, OKC and San Antonio are kicking the
- [44:18]
A
out of each other.
- [44:19]
B
Every game is a war, right. And it's, it seems like it would seem like it's going to go long. I'm trying to be at the crib, icing up, getting rest if I'm mix. And the other point that I would like is I get frustrated seeing like you rise to seeing the Cavs offensively because it seems like two different offenses, right. Like you saw it. I think it was in, it was in game one, but I believe I remember in game seven as well the Detroit series, like when Donovan Mitchell is cooking, it's one type of offense, it's fast. We're getting to the other side, we're playing with pace. And then when James Harden gets the ball, it like we automatically have to stop what we're doing and we have to, you know, wait around while James Harden dribbles the life out of the ball for nine seconds and maybe we don't get a good shot. And then I got. The biggest frustration I got was at the end of that game one where when they go into overtime, Donovan Mitchell, it gets like one shot and it's a fade away at the end of a shot clock. Right. That is egregious. It is tough to watch them down because they're still figuring each other out. But also like from a coaching standpoint, they don't have any, any answers for what to do when one of their high volume scores are. I don't really have a question for that, but that's just my frustration. Yeah, well, they don't have the offices of one.
- [45:38]
A
They don't have the personnel. If one of their high volume guys isn't like scoring, they don't I mean, they don't really have another Kevin Mobley's
- [45:46]
B
balling, though I do got to give credit to Evan Mobley. He's been showing.
- [45:49]
A
No, he is. But, like, that's not. That's not a guy you're not going to like, say, hey, we're not getting what we need out of those two. Go win us the game. Like, that's not the role you want him playing. You know what I mean?
- [45:59]
B
Yeah.
- [46:00]
A
Donovan Mitchell not getting the ball late in the game. That's on Donovan Mitchell. You could put. You could put the coaches. You could put that on the coaches, too. But Donovan Mitchell's fully within his right and has all the autonomy in the world to go over there and say, give me the fucking ball. I'm taking. I'm taking this ball. So if he doesn't do that down the stretch, there might have been other factors. It could have been. He was tired, he could have been dealing with, you know, slight injury or what have you. But, yeah, I mean, look, finding the sweet spot, when you have two guys that are really good offensively or can do really good things for your team offensively, but they play different styles, finding the balance in between, you know, in the sweet spot of how much of him and how much of the other one is always kind of the. You know, the game within the game that a coach is trying to play. Like, you have to get that right, and you have to get the rhythm of the game right for you to have the best chance to win. So, you know, it's not. That's a good point, Logan. And I'm just sitting here telling you, dog, like, any point we make about this series, it. They're going to be too tired. That's not. They played a lot of basketball, and these games are coming at you every other night. It's not getting easier for them. Someone asked me the other day, so I got the Knicks in five, but someone asked me the other day about the Western Conference. They were asking me about the playoffs, right, and could the Knicks win a championship? I was like, no, they're not being either one of those teams that come out of the Western Conference unless they can get up out of this series really quickly. And those two beat the shit out of each other over the course of seven games. And I don't know that I'd pick them, but they would have a much better chance if that was the scenario that played.
- [47:41]
B
I thought the same thing after game two. After game two of that San Antonio OKC series, where you just see bodies on the ground. Like, you just see people just falling. You see a hamstring is getting pulled. Like Dylan Harper is saying, no, the assistants are saying, dylan Harper, you can't come back on the court. You're fucked up. Like, you, you need to bounce. And so we'll see what happens. I don't know, but Howard, I want to give some flowers. Or Mikhail Bridges and Mike Brown, like, I mean, it just seems like Mikhail Bridges is kind of find a new life after he got his ass kicked by Nick's tape and some writers who won't talk about. And seems like he's become a transformation. He had the fire under his ass. And speaking of fire under his ass, Mike Brown has also had the fire under his ass. What has it seen? What has it been like for you to see them, you know, kind of have a transformation in your backyard?
- [48:31]
C
I, I think the thing with Mikhail Bridges is, like, from the moment the Knicks acquired him, all anybody was going to talk about was how much they gave up to get him. It's always like the four picks on the swap or the five picks or whatever the hell the final tally was on that. And like, every time he had a clunker of a game or a bad stretch, Knicks fans were all over him. And it was bench him. In the Hawks series, it was bench him. There have been other moments where it's like, you know, this, this guy just doesn't seem, he's, he's maybe malcontent, he's inconsistent and he's been fantastic. He's been absolutely essential to them and, and this run and, you know, just getting, getting the, the best version of him that, that you could get, basically, which is hit your open threes, defend at a, at a, at a level that, that makes this perimeter D of the Knicks, I, I think one of the, you know, obviously one of the best ones in the season, all season. Him and OG Anunoby together are, are formidable to say the least, and make some plays because Mikhail Bridges can do a few things with the ball in his hands. Like, I, I, I think Bridges is giving them everything that Knicks fans could have hoped, but they didn't think they would get. And in Mike Brown's case, you know, Knicks fans were split on tibs, but a lot of them were, were happy to see him go. But I think Mike Brown came in with, I think, a lot to prove just because, yeah, things didn't go well. I mean, things ended badly in Sacramento. He shouldn't have been fired in Sacramento. Things didn't go, you know, all that great in LA when he was there. I think there was maybe, you know, some mix of optimism, but just, like, concern. Tibbs was the more established quantity, but I think people also knew that they needed something different. And Mike Brown's done a hell of a job. And, you know, the. The way he's deployed Cat as a playmaker, I think maybe, you know, drawing on some of his own experiences, you know, coaching Sabonis in Sacramento, but maybe a little bit some of the principles that he picked up with the Warriors. I, I think, you know, Mike Brown has more than vindicated himself if he needed to at all, in the eyes of. Of certainly Knicks fans. And I think the NBA, like, this has been a masterful job.
- [50:43]
B
Let's. Let's hit up Rowan of the week. Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna start it off. I'm gonna go with Matt Stafford. One year, 55 million dollar extension. Okay. I want to be that old and making that much money, you know, that's cool. That'd be great. That'd be awesome.
- [50:56]
A
Yeah. Mvp.
- [51:00]
B
You're the football guy.
- [51:01]
A
Yeah, I think he did. I think he did win shout out
- [51:04]
B
to Matt Staff for getting to the baggage claim. Good job. He did win mvp, so. Yeah. Raja, who's your R of the week Sleep.
- [51:13]
A
Oh, your sleep would be my real one.
- [51:15]
C
Dude, the air conditioner, the. The hotel AC is going to be
- [51:19]
B
his real one of the week as
- [51:20]
C
soon as he turns that back on.
- [51:21]
A
There you go, Howard. Let's see. No. This one's near and dear to my heart. Give a shout out. Listeners might not know who they are, but it's going to be the Under Armour circuit in general. And a gentleman named Tor Watts and Rafi. I forget what Rafi's last name are. They're the two gentlemen that are kind of the head of, like, the Under Armour grassroots basketball, which is where Ty played for the last couple years. And we had a great relationship with them, and they were super cool to my family and I. And Ty wasn't super happy with his situation on the actual team he was on. Nothing to do with the brand itself, but the team that he was on. And we felt like we needed to make a move for Ty, you know, to just find the joy in it again and play somewhere else. And those gentlemen who are really the stewards of, like, these kids kind of platforms to live their dreams and try to chase their dreams could have been really real poop butts about us trying to leave Under Armour, like they had the right to do so when we told them we wanted to leave because we weren't happy with Team and Titan. And they were champs. They were super supportive and they were everything that you would want someone to be if. If they were responsible for, for providing the platform for kids. And they were about kids and their dreams and they wished us well and we left on good terms and, and it could have just been so messy and so shitty and they were such G's and champs about it that I really appreciate them and Under Armour to brand for, for, for being as cool with the situation as they were. So I'm giving them a huge shout out as real ones.
- [53:07]
B
That's what's up. That's what's up. Is there a chance that you're going to come back out to the Bay Area and not tell your co host again, the Bear like you did for the last Under Armour camp?
- [53:16]
A
Oh, I did with that Steph Curry camp. That was.
- [53:19]
B
Silicon Valley is a. Silicon Valley is a part of the Bay Area.
- [53:22]
A
You know, it is. I think it was close to Piedmont, but yeah, my bad, my bad.
- [53:29]
B
It's within, it's within an hour. It's within an hour of where I live. Asshole. Howard, who was your ruin of the week? Not even talking. I'm not even talking to Raj. I'm just gonna. Where it's me and you talking back. Ruin of the week.
- [53:49]
C
I'm going with Stephen Colbert, who signed off last night, his final show on cbs. He went out with, with class, with dignity, with style, with great humor and celebrating his. Not only his show, but like all the, all the people he brought back and closing out with Paul McCartney. And he had David Burrow on the other night, and it was just awesome and it was joyful and it could have been spiteful and bitter and everything else, and he would have had a right to be, but he didn't. And I'm just going to say it. It is absolutely appalling and disturbing to me at this stage of my life, in this year of our country's existence, that somebody could be a comedian, an entertainer, could be chased off the air essentially by the White House itself. It's just absolutely fucking batshit crazy that this has happened in our lifetime. So Stephen Colbert is my real One of the Week. But Sarah Spain, our friend, podcaster, broadcaster, incredibly talented, I think she said it best on Blue sky last night. So I'm going to give the partial assist on real One of the Week to her because she said all of this more eloquently than I can. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from Colbert's forced exit, the big ones about government corruption, media monopolies and censorship. But I'll most often think about how he ended things with class, surrounded by friends and the people he most admired joining in their art, completely full of joy. So well said, Sarah. Thank you for saying what I, in my ire and frustration, couldn't possibly have said as well, but Stephen Colbert, with an assist from Sarah Spain.
- [55:26]
B
Amen. And that is another edition of Real Ones. Real Ones after dark. Time to put the East Coasters to bed. We'll see you guys on Tuesday. Make sure you check out realmback@gmail.com realm.com Wake your ass up. Rise@realm.com Wake the up and get into the mailbag. We'll see you guys on Tuesday. All the shits. Thank you guys for staying. Stand up. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Mar. Here, visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-7 some follow the noise.
- [56:40]
A
Bloomberg follows the money because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's Twitter trillion dollar swings.
- [56:50]
B
There's a money side to every story
- [56:53]
A
and when you see the money side,
- [56:55]
B
you understand what others miss.
- [56:57]
A
Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now@bloomberg.com
- [57:04]
C
did you know if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees. Turn the temperature down with blinds.com and get up to 50% off custom window treatments like solar roller shades and windows. More during the Memorial Day Mega Sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you free samples, real design experts and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 50% off site wide and huge savings on door busters. Right now during the Memorial Day mega sale@blinds.com rules and restrictions apply.
- [57:34]
B
770-7867.