← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Thunder Surge and Take a 2-0 Lead in the Western Conference Finals. Knicks Face Pressure After Humbling Game 1 Loss.
01:25:33
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- [00:00]
Logan Murdock
You're Listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. Even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
- [00:49]
Raja Bell
Youm.
- [00:49]
Howard Beck
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- [01:24]
Raja Bell
What'S poppin? Real ones Logan Murdock here. Roger Bell there. As promised, Howard Beck is in the cut. Got a little tan. Looking great Raja. Dude, what, what, what's up with the Bluetooth headphones, buddy? Are you gonna get a hold of them? What the.
- [01:41]
Howard Beck
Listen man, I have them.
- [01:42]
Raja Bell
They're right here.
- [01:44]
Howard Beck
They sometimes sink to this laptop that I did buy specifically and especially for the show and sometimes they don't. And then today, like I told you, wife's out of town so I had to run up to DIA school real quick. I let Ty stay home. He had a half day and Zen and Ty, I get home and he's having a problem with the shooting machine so he's outside. I gotta run up and tighten that up real quick. It's just a lot of bro.
- [02:05]
Raja Bell
It's just, it's just stuff, you know, before the, that had nothing to do with the, the Bluetooth headphones question. But like that.
- [02:12]
Howard Beck
So it what it did, what it did was it fried me out. So when I get like this is typically what happens in my life, right? Like when you, when you see me and you get the, the excitable like on edge version it's nothing you did. It's everything that led up to that that's got me on tilt. And now I'm like, fuck these Bluetooth headphones.
- [02:32]
Raja Bell
I understand. Yeah, I understand. It's funny because you said that you pre pod, you said you dealt with a lot of bullshit this morning, and I just got took it for face value. Now you just vented for everyone on the pod. I appreciate. We appreciate that. We really appreciate it.
- [02:46]
Howard Beck
Let me take it a step further. To anyone that's listening, right?
- [02:50]
Cliff
Let me.
- [02:51]
Howard Beck
Allow me to do this. I've been with my wife a long time, right? Like, like since college. So there are times when someone's like, yo, I'm taking. I'm going out of town. We're like, yo, sometimes that's cool, bro. Go get a refresher take. Like, my little. My little girl's got a soccer thing up at Disney. And I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna kick it here with the boys, bro. We're gonna have a little weekend until all of her duties fall upon me, right? And then I'm. Now I'm sitting here. What should have been like a chill out. What I'm normally doing when she handles it turns into, now I'm in charge and that shit.
- [03:24]
Raja Bell
Sometimes you thought you was gonna be chilling at six o' clock with a cold brew, but you up at 10:30 for no reason. Just, just, just doing chores.
- [03:31]
Howard Beck
And check this out. We didn't just pot it for like as long as we have. And I don't even got a mic in front of me. That's how fried I am. Look, here's the mic. I haven't been talking into it.
- [03:45]
Raja Bell
Howard, please help us out. Help us get out of this. What's going on.
- [03:52]
Cliff
We're done.
- [03:53]
Raja Bell
Is going on. We're.
- [03:54]
Cliff
We're cooked. It's over. What?
- [03:57]
Raja Bell
It's over.
- [03:57]
Cliff
The pod's been canceled. Sorry.
- [04:01]
Raja Bell
Speaking of getting canceled, the Minnesota Timberwolves, ladies and gentlemen. Wow. You know, so like all season we've been like, testing OKC's gangster and being like, you know, man, I'm including me in this group. I'm including me in this group, man. They got a good record. We did the same thing with the Cavaliers, man. They got a good record. Ooh, man, we'll see what they do in the offs. We'll see what they do in the offs. Let's see if they get tested. What they going to do? Are they going to fold? Maybe they're young. Who knows? Young teams of old have folded Just like the, you know, the thunder of yesteryear, right? And so we get to that. Get into that bag, and then they just fucking dominate. The Minnesota Timberwolves through two games, and it looks like a series that is was going to be six games could very well be a sweep or a gentleman sweep at best. The defense has been amazing. Russell from Timberwolves has been clobbered. We'll get to his stats in a second. Nas Reed is like, fallen off a cliff for the last two months. I don't know what the hell is going on there. Howard. Should we just, like, get ready for. I don't know where they have the parade in OKC or where they will. I haven't been there in a while, but should we just get ready to that for that? Should we just get started and get ready for the OKC parade at this point?
- [05:14]
Cliff
Would that be the, like, world's shortest parade? Like, all right, we're starting.
- [05:18]
Raja Bell
Whoops.
- [05:18]
Cliff
We've reached the edge of town.
- [05:22]
Raja Bell
We got to do laps.
- [05:23]
Cliff
Turn, turn around and go back.
- [05:28]
Raja Bell
Wait, that was two minutes. How do we get down? I don't know. We gotta. We did the whole state in 35, 35 minutes. It's crazy.
- [05:35]
Cliff
You just. You wake up and you're just.
- [05:37]
Raja Bell
Why are we in Norman right now?
- [05:41]
Cliff
Oh, we're doing nothing to. To dissuade anybody from believing that we're just coastal elites. Certainly. Sorry, Oklahoma. Not sorry. Really. I think this is a good time for me to bring back my coaches always lie rant. Just briefly. I don't know if Chris Finch said it last night, but if anybody with the Timberwolves have said, hey, it's a long series. Let me just remind everybody that in a best of seven series in the NBA, if a team is up 2 0, they win the series 92% of the time, including 6, 0 so far this year. So, yeah, most likely the Wolves are cooked. I'm never going to write off a team this quickly. Things can change. Playoff series have a way of surprising us, especially when the venue changes and, you know, guys are more comfortable at home. But I think the real problem is that we haven't seen a whole lot in the first two games to indicate that the Timberwolves know how to be competitive in this series. And that's Julius Randle just completely fading, turning back into frustrated version of that the Knicks fans were always frustrated with in New York in the postseason. It's a little bit of Anthony Edwards. It's a little bit of role players just fading. It's Mike conley suddenly aging 10 years. At times it's. They can't make a three pointer and this is a team that was one of the best three point shooting teams in the league this year. It's a lot of things, but yeah, I mean I thought this was going to be a competitive series. I thought it could go the distance and I am looking rather foolish at the moment for having that much faith in the Minnesota Timberwolves.
- [07:22]
Raja Bell
You know how bad of a series this is, Roger? I had a, me and my editor had like a plan of what we were going to do for game. I think it was game three. Like in terms of writing by the end of the game too, we had to scrap the shit. Like we just had to like now this isn't going to work. Like this is, this is just too much of a blowout. Let me give you some quotes, not some quotes. Let me give you some stats really quickly. Raja. From Julius Randall after he had 20 points in the first half of game one, he has scored a combined 14 over the next few quarters of the series. What have you seen with how OKC has just cobbled, cobbled him, just stolen everything from him. What have you seen from their defense and why has it been so effective against a guy like Julius Randle?
- [08:09]
Howard Beck
Well, I mean they're, look, they're, they're a good defensive team. It's been effective against the whole, the whole team, let's be frank. Like that's, that's not, I mean Julius Randall is who Julius Randle is. He, he had a, a very nice first half to the series. You know, he struggled a bit in the second half and he struggled the entire game last night. He, he has things that he likes to do that are, that are predictable in a way that, you know, not. It's not really fair because there have been some very predictable. Like Mano Ginobili was, was, was going left. Like you knew that. But he had so many little, he had so many little variances to going left and little ways to get you leaning right that would bring him back left. And it was, you knew he was going left and he could still cook you like that. So it's not really fair to Julius Randle, but he has a predictable skill set. And when you're as good defensively as OKC is and you're as disruptive and you've got hands in on every ball, like the amount of deflection they have, deflect deflections that they create is unreal. When they have the amount of length that they have around the rim. So, you know, you're running him off of that three. He's getting to the basket. Usually he's a bully around there because of his size. Well, now, you know, there's Chet Lumen with all of that length. There's Hartenstein, like, the. He's. There's real length out there that's deterring him at the rim. And so they've just got him a little, you know, frustrated and out of whack. Um, but I do want to go back. Like. Yep. Like, I thought I. OKC was my favorite to win this series. Right. Like, OKC was my favorite to win the championship. I thought that Minnesota 2 coming into this series would be. Would be a formidable test for them. They have been largely through six quarters, five and a half quarters. I mean, these games have been right there for a while, and then. And then OKC just opens it up on them. Right. So, like, there's an avenue to it. But OKC is just really good. And when they ratchet it up just a little bit defensively, I mean, they put it on you real quick, dude.
- [10:16]
Raja Bell
Yeah. And then it's just. That's why I think this series is going to go so fast, because even I was talking to. I was talking to somebody within the group chats last night, and it feels like even with this offense, say, Ant gets his groove and he has a 50 pointer this. This series, I still think, like, that's a game. OKC wins by like five. Right. Like, it seems like they can. They have. They're such a deep team. They are. They have just like Ant when he's coming off of a screen, he has Lou Dort on him. And then you. You switch on to. You switch him on to like J Dub, who was go from first team all defense to second team all defense. Right. And then you have Shea blocking up the paint and then Artsty coming off the bench. It is a ridiculous defense. I just don't see. And we talked about this. Roger, you alluded to it. This. The predictability of Minnesota's offense. Like, how do you. You can't change that on the fly. Right? Like, that's. That's what I think the, the biggest conundrum that they have is that they can't change their ways on the fly. Especially, like, that's why I think OKC so good coming out of halfs because they can stifle Minnesota and they don't really have a reprieve.
- [11:30]
Howard Beck
Yeah. They also have more people that can generally create for. For themselves. So, like, in Game one, when Shay was struggling, um, you got him off the ball a little bit. Jay Will is able to create. He's able to take people off the bounce and collapse defense. And you can withstand Shay kind of going to sleep offensively for a while because they have more playmakers out there, more people that can genuinely, like, create a play for someone else. Um, yeah, look, I've said this last playoff series, it, it's holding true again. This playoff series. So far it held true against the Lakers a bit. Even though Ant has grown, he's matured, he's gotten better, there's still things that you throw at him that, that look confusing to him and he doesn't have an answer for like right away. And that's okay. He's young, he's learning. When you have the type of pieces that OKC has defensively that you just talked about, like Lou Dort and Jay Will, and these guys aren't giving you free looks coming off of screenshots. This sounds corny, but these dudes are fighting. They're fighting over screens. Like they're, they are physical in a way that doesn't give you much space when you come off of these. Right. And Ant, typically, this is why I said on Rosillo's pod that I'd like him to get to the mid range a little bit more. And I know analytically speaking, people are going to kill me and shit like that when you ain't playing no fucking basketball. Like, get he. When you are living predictably on a three or the rim, as a defender, I have landmarks. I know where you want to get to the rim. That's a landmark for me. I put my back up against that. You can't go any further to the baseline for threes. I put my toes on the line and it's a landmark predictably, like. But when you're operating in that mid post space where you'll pull up at any time, or you're getting to Shay where like, he might get all the way to the rim or he might just stop and raise up in the air, it's hard to guard that. Ant looks stymied by the way they're asking him to play a little bit, which is three, or to the rim. And last night I thought he did a decent job of saying, man, fuck that, I'm just going to get aggressive real quick and get to a spot. Now. He didn't, it didn't wind up being consistent enough scoring, but, like, that's the way you're going to have to play. Against them, bro. This isn't going to be traditional. Hey, they're going to give me a three. They're not. They're fighting over those screens, bro. Like they're not just going to keep gifting you toe in the line threes. And, and it's going to be difficult to consistently score at the rim with their level of defensive prowess. I, I like that they got him to the mid post a little bit in a. In an area off the block where it was going to be hard to double. I liked it. He took the ball and went there occasionally. But like you, you're not going to be able to live with just shooting threes or getting to the rim against this defense.
- [14:15]
Raja Bell
Well, that's what I think about Raja and I'm gonna get to Howard in a second. Cause I do have a question for you about OKC and just team building aspect, but I want to stay on this point with you, Raja, real quick. I remember when I was reporting out story last summer going into the Olympics and one of the things that some of the coaches on the Timberwolf staff was saying was they want. They. They're showing him film of Kobe specifically for this moment. Right. And I think just, just Kobe in the post and Kobe and how he just kind of seeks out matchups. Right. And I'm thinking about the series against you guys in 06, where it feels like, or it felt like for the first four games, Kobe was kind of thinking the game through. He wasn't. What you guys did a good job of by game five was making him become a scorer. But for the first like four games of that series, he was a guy that was thinking through in the post passage to other guys becoming a ecosystem within the ecosystem of an offense. And I don't know if Ant is there yet. I think he's developing those tools. I think Kobe was like maybe 28 by that time, but Ants is trying to figure that out in real time, but he's just not there yet. Right. Like he can get to the post, but I don't know if he could consistently become an ecosystem yet from the post. And I think that we're seeing him kind of mature into that, but he's not quite there yet.
- [15:34]
Howard Beck
Yeah, well, you're talking. Yeah, I mean, I would agree to some, to some extent. Like you're talking about overall development and, and that does not come overnight. Right. I did like what Ant did last night. The other, the other answer to what they're doing defensively with all eyes on you is what he did early which was just accept it. Attack, create. Create the rotation for the defense and then spray the ball. And he did that really well. He just wasn't getting the type of support that you would need from the others by way of shot making. Because that's the answer, right? If you're going to commit these resources to stopping me and I'm going to draw it far enough away from my other four players that when I kick the ball, they get to truly play four on three for about two seconds. If. If we are punishing you that way by making shots, then guess what you have to stop doing. You got to stop committing those resources to me or we're going to. Or you got to live with them just knocking shots down over and over. But they've got to do their job. They got to make the shots. They weren't. And so Ant now has to take it on himself to score the ball a little bit and point, produce. And in that space, he does. He does have to. He does have to continue to develop in different areas of the game. You see Shay sometimes come down. I called Ty in from the other room. He was watching it, but I wanted to show him there was a clip. Like, he comes down, he pushes it all the way to the baseline on one side, right? Like he pushes all the way to the baseline and then he basically drops it behind his back and puts you right on his hip, right? Everybody is loaded on the other side of the floor. There's a guy at the top of the key, but now he's basically on an ISO right there with the guy on his hip and he's just going to bounce, bounce, bounce to a spin, fade. Now, if you double that, he's going to kick it out.
- [17:14]
Raja Bell
But.
- [17:15]
Howard Beck
But they're not doubling because you've gotten into that quick. You've put him on his heels and that's a perfect spot to operate when you're as gifted a scorer as one of those guys is. But you see Shay do that throughout the course of a game. Jay will does that from time to time. You don't see Ant do that enough.
- [17:28]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's interesting. Let's get back to. I want to get to the OKC part of it, Howard. Just from a team building aspect, where we're going, we're in this new cba and I think it took maybe a couple of years for franchises just to see how much these aprons are affecting the league. What is OKC's rise? Teach us about team building in the modern era where, like, you have to draft you have to hit on free agents, but you have to hit within a window right now. And it seems like they have a, somehow have a longer window than most in this modern NBA. But then you juxtapose that with Minnesota, who is already, even though they are young teams, starting to get expensive and starting to see the end of like the team now is that we know it in the next couple of years because they might have to pivot at some point. Right. Just with how the salaries go. How, how can LKC's mantra educate the rest of the league, including the Timberwolves, who want to be contenders for the next few years to come?
- [18:35]
Cliff
I don't know if the Thunders model, if we want to call it that, is something that you can replicate. I think if you looked at the four teams that are in the conference finals, they all got here a little bit differently. The one thing that we know, I think we know for sure now is that you're not winning a championship in this era with this cba, with the old super team model of we're just going to go out and get a bunch of expensive dudes who are all making the max, two or three of them, four, if we can somehow pull it off. Like that's just not realistic anymore. And it wasn't realistic for most of the league anyway, which is why the league created the system. Right. Only, only a handful of teams could pursue that model because you need to be in a, in a glamour market or a big market. Sam Presti. You know, it's interesting. The Thunder were the one team that voted against lottery reform when they finally changed the odds. And the reason for that was the Thunder as the smallest of small markets. Basically their view was you're taking away one of the biggest tools a small market get. Yeah, we, we can't get elite talent, free agency. They're not coming to Oklahoma, they're not coming to Memphis, they're not coming to Indianapolis, they're not coming to Charlotte. They're not coming to all, all kinds of places in the NBA. So if you're Oklahoma and if you're any of those other teams too, and you're looking at, well, I can get a superstar through free agency. Nope, not likely trade. They might refuse to sign an extension here. They might refuse to show. They might just whatever they might tell the team that's trading them, don't trade me there. And they might honor. So what are we left with? How else are we getting elite talent that can anchor a championship contender? So that's why the Thunder voted against lottery reform. They wanted that tool still in the. In the toolbox. And they lost that vote, obviously, 29 to 1. But what the Thunder have been doing since then is exactly what we've all seen, right? Sam Presti making all these moves to keep acquiring a shit ton of draft picks, the most probably in the history of the league at any given time, and made some really smart moves along the way. Like, lest we forget, their newly crowned MVP was acquired, of course, in the Paul George trade. Shea was the Overall, what, like, 12th or 13th pick in the draft that he was in there was, you know, like, that's, that's like, even if you were the Thunder having. If you had picked him where he was picked, this was not a tanking model, right? He wasn't a top 1, 2, 3 pick. He was late lottery. But they saw something in him. A lot of people with the Clippers also knew that there was something special.
- [21:18]
Raja Bell
I mean, Doc Rivers said that, like, he asked Kawhi, like, are you sure you want to trade for Paul George? Are you sure? The shake it is kind of good.
- [21:25]
Cliff
Yeah. And the Clippers were really loath to give him up, but. But that's. That was what the deal cost. And then, of course, one of the picks that they got in that deal became Jalen Williams. So, like, two of your three best players right now by resume were in that deal, but neither of them were top five picks. And then Chet was the one high pick, right? And, you know, books, you know, still out. Jury's still out on what Chet's going to become. He's really good. He's a valuable player for them. Their free agent pickups were Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Caruso. All right, cool. A starting center and a sixth man. I mean, obviously both those guys could be starters for a lot of teams, but they were complimentary pieces that you put on afterward. So can somebody go out and try to do this same thing? Like, sure, if you've already got a Paul George who you can trade for a ton of picks, including one of whom is going to become a future mvp, like, that's a little glib, but, like, that's really what happened. And I do think that to the extent that the Thunder have created something sustainable, right, Young talent, some of them not on their max deals yet, not. Not off of their rookie deals yet, and depth and more picks so that we've got all these different ways we can now evolve from here, right? Oh, they get too expensive. All right, we'll let a couple of expensive guys go. We have that we still got some of the young guys or new draft picks if we hit on all of them to backfill as cheaper replacement players. Right. Like, there's a possibility here of continuing to do that, but you doing that requires still, like, constantly hitting on picks.
- [22:56]
Raja Bell
And one of the greatest GMs of all time.
- [23:00]
Cliff
Presti's freaking amazing. And like, these people who like, be like, oh, he's overrated. What's he won? Folks like, this is the NBA, man. Like, like, there's a lot of really smart coaches and GMs who have not won championships because it takes luck, it takes some skill, it takes all kinds of stuff. And the, the fact that Presti built a team that made the finals with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, it came apart for a bunch of different reasons, not least of which was it was ownership who didn't want to max out Harden. That's why they trade. Like, Presti didn't wake up one morning and decide, ah, I'm just gonna trade James Harden. And you could, you could quibble with what he got back in the trade, but nobody saw him becoming an MVP either at that time. Like, even the. The Rockets will tell you they didn't. They didn't. They didn't foresee that. So anyway, Presti built a contender. It comes apart, and in a fairly short amount of time in NBA years, has rebuilt another contender, one that just won 68 games, looks like it's on the verge of making the finals and absolutely will be heavily, heavily favored no matter who they face. So you can't diminish what. What Presti's done, dude, has been masterful. And on top of all that, at a time when we keep prematurely declaring teams a potential dynasty, Nuggets, potential dynasty, Celtics, like, no, like, it comes apart really quickly. The Thunder have the ability actually to withstand and continue building on this. Like, I'm not going to do prematurely declare them a dynasty either. We got to all just stop doing that. I'm just saying they actually have a model where the ca. The salary cap itself, the CBA itself will not necessarily tear them down because they've got the ability to pivot in so many different ways because of all the picks coming.
- [24:38]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I can't wait to see. See what they become. Roger, let's talk about back about this series where.
- [24:45]
Howard Beck
Where.
- [24:45]
Raja Bell
How do you see game three going of this series? Right where very clearly OKC has had full control of this, and I have no doubt that they are going to win in five or six games. But that game three is very important. Right. It's the, it's the first win game of the series. It is the game by and large where that home team is probably going to play the hardest in this type of situation. What kind of effort is going to be needed from OKC to just take full stranglehold of the series in that type of environment? Because it's going to be cracking in Minnesota.
- [25:21]
Howard Beck
Yeah, I mean, Minnesota, what you're going to have to do is, I would imagine is weather the storm that is going to be Minnesota at home for the first six minutes of the game. Right. And then if, you know, if you withstand that, then you settle in and you hoop. If you're okc. OKC is so disruptive. I just want to, I just want to be, be clear. Like you can watch even in playoff series teams defensively that are pretty good, they're not as physical, as present, as disruptive, as, as deflectiony. Not a word. But like as, as it is now city, they're all over you. They are swarming. They. They are taking a swipe at any ball that is presented to them. And you just don't see that all the time in the NBA. Like a lot of stuff is given in the NBA and until, until it's time to really sit down and guard before you get into your primary move or the shot goes up. Like these dudes are contesting everything and that's always going to give them an opportunity. So like what they need to do is, is continue to turn the ball over. It's a huge part of who they are. Conversely, like Minnesota has to take care of the ball. I think they gave up 22 points off of turnovers last night and OKC only gave up 10 points off of turnovers. Like, not like, I mean that's 12 points, but it was a what, 13, 14 point game. You know, you got. So they're going to need to continue to turn the ball over. They need to continue to like build that wall. That wall that I'm telling you is kind of stymying Julius Randall at times and definitely has had an effect on, on Ant. They need to keep building that and then just be long, active and punitive around the rim. And again, all of this is going to be flip side Minnesota. You need to put your head down, dude. Like you need to, you need to put your head down. You either gonna have to make a, an incredible amount of threes and shoot a good percentage at that, or we got to find a way to produce in the paint.
- [27:17]
Raja Bell
Yep, yep. Gotta break Bread or fake dead. I mean, I think that one of the things I keep thinking about this series Raja is I keep thinking about a guy that's not even in the playoffs or in the series at all. A guy by the name of Nicola Jokic. Like, with what the OKC is doing now, like, how much more respect do you have for Nicola Yogic for taking this defense singularly? He had some help a little bit, but certainly taking this, this team to seven games.
- [27:49]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Look, Nicola Jokic is amazing. And I don't, I'm not what I'm about. Let me preface what I'm about to say by saying this isn't meant to take any credit away from Nicola Jokic the player. He's incredible, amazing. But I would tell you if anyone else had that type of post presence, right. That is the answer to OKC's defense. So much of what they do is perimeter based pressure deflections, disruptive of your offense. If you can play behind that, which is what Denver could do, like theoretically. Right? Like say I'm. If you're looking at a defense, you've got the ball at the top of the key, right? There's this wall. I've got a bunch of ball pressure. I look to my right, there's someone in a gap half denial. There's someone to my left, gap half denial. I don't, I can't make a clean pass. I don't think I can drive it. We want to play behind that.
- [28:45]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [28:45]
Howard Beck
In the post a bit, but nobody has that guy. And so while it's not taking Jokic was brilliant and he could do it better than anybody else could do it. But having someone that you could throw it into and play from the inside out is a better recipe for playing against them than trying to play them from the outside in.
- [29:03]
Raja Bell
That's why Denver always has a shot. If they can somehow find a way to retool just because of that guy right there. And they can always be a factor within the Western Conference because what you said, I mean there's, you know, Denver I think about like, you know, their post presence, but also if you think about the other post presence and like Anthony Davis, but he's not on a team that's going to be good enough to beat okc. Right. Like, but who else is there that you can think of in the Western Conference? Right. That's why I think Denver always has a shot and like we'll see what they do. But you got to think if you're Denver. Oh, we're, we just got to regroup and we'll be fine. Like we got it. We. We'll be right in the things that's got to settle down even after all the smoke is there because of those reasons. Stay healthy. There was something, Howard, that, that I saw recently like a comparison throughout this series comparing the this year's Oklahoma City Thunder to the 1415 warriors. And I thought it was interesting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I thought it was an interesting comp. And I. The re. I want to get your take on this, but the reason why I think it's. It's wrong is because I think that the warriors had a bit more of a balance between young and old with Iguodala and with Sean Livingston and guys like that. Guys that have, have, have played at high levels. Not to say that OKC doesn't. They had Caruso and Hartenstein, but I think Iguodala was a better player in terms of free agency, picks up pickups and he was really huge for them. You had bogut and different vets like that. But there is the comparison of a team that is seemingly coming out of nowhere to winning a title. Even though I disagree with that, but that is the logic behind this comparison. What do you think when you think about those two different groups and two different teams and they're similar or different trajectories?
- [30:53]
Cliff
The thing with the warriors was like they were already a 50 win team, right. But they looked like a 50 win team with a ceiling on them. Right. I don't think anybody. We didn't see them coming. The leap they made from 50 win team to champion to dynasty, we did not see coming the Thunder, it's different. Like you could start to see the outline of it a couple of years ago and then they, I mean they led the west in, in wins even a year ago, right. Like they. So like, like this has been more of a like chartable rise where they went from, you know, rebuilding team to competitive to really intriguing, to great but not ready to make a playoff run to now making the playoff run. Like there's, there's this like more of the traditional path to, to, to championship assuming that they win it. The warriors like made a leap that nobody saw. Like nobody remember there was like the ESPN had its like grid of everybody making their preseason predictions and only exactly one person picked the Warriors. That was, that was Ethan Strauss, famously back in the day. And, and that was it. And you know, there's a reason for that. You know, and especially at that time. Right. Like we weren't you know, everybody was still on the, oh, can you win a championship? Shooting a ton of threes, you know, is a Steph Clay, you know, combination. Is that the way you win a title? You know, Draymond doesn't score like, who, where, you know, how are they going to get, you know, easy buckets. It was all that stuff. We weren't, we weren't ready to, to recognize what the warriors were at that time. The Thunder is just obvious. I mean, they were.
- [32:30]
Raja Bell
The Thunder feels like. The Thunder feels like a continuation of what the old Thunder should have been, right? Like, it just seems like they just broke that ceiling. It's basically this, by and large, the same model, but.
- [32:40]
Cliff
Yeah, but like the Thunder were the preseason favorites to win the west, and I think maybe, I don't know if they were preseason favorites to win the championship, but like the warriors were not preseason favorites at the very beginning of their run. They were later, obviously. So it's. It. I think they're really, really different. I don't know who made that comparison, but I, I don't, I wouldn't. Have, I wouldn't have gone there. I mean, I think this is. And besides that too, like the warriors, like, okay, they drafted their core three guys, but as you mentioned, Livingston and Nigadala, Bogut Barbosa, all the other guys who were on those, the early team, like, those were guys that they picked up along the way. But the Thunder are so heavily homegrown and I would even sort of include Shay in that because they picked him up at a time when he was still really young in his trajectory. He became a star on their watch. He was not a star. They acquired. And I think one of the things that's, that's really interesting is just like the, the kinds of players they've drafted, right? They've got so many guys who can get after it defensively and some of them could score, some can't. I think most of them are at least competent shooters. So like they've got like every team in the league would love to just go raid their bench for 3 and D guys for, for just, you know, defensive minded wings guys with length and athleticism.
- [33:52]
Raja Bell
A lot of guys on OKC are going to be on other teams in like five years. They will, a lot of guys.
- [33:57]
Cliff
But by the way, the system works of. They absolutely will be. But again, that's the genius of having all the picks because they can, they can constantly replenish, but they just, they've, they've done a really good job and it's like, listen, saying that doesn't mean they're perfect, right? People are immediately going to go back and be like, you know, start picking like, oh, they drafted Poku. You know, like, yeah, okay, everybody, every team, Even the best GMs have their screw ups in the draft. They have not been perfect. They've gotten a hell of a lot more right than wrong and they're hitting a much higher percentage than most, which is why they're in this position.
- [34:28]
Raja Bell
We'll see what happens. It's going to be going to be a fun series. It's still things gonna be a a quick series, but it'll be fun nonetheless. Let's say a quick break FanDuel is letting you get in on all the NBA playoff action right now from the first tip. Because right now all customers get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. That's right. Just use your token on three plus leg same game parlay and same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back. If you don't, you don't win, man. Let's talk about the slate. We got Knicks Pacers coming up and I don't know who to pick, so I'm just going to close my eyes and pick the Knicks outright. And I think I'm going to take the over on points for Jalen Brunson and I'm going to take the over on points for Carl Towns. And I love betting on FanDuel. With their great promotions every day, their safe and secure app and their instant payments, there's no better place to bet on all the playoff action in America's number one sportsbook. Visit FanDuel.com Ringer NBA and get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 and older and President D.C. often required minimum three leg parlay required refund issued as non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply including token expiration. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com this episode.
- [36:06]
Logan Murdock
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- [37:06]
Howard Beck
From the producers of Long Legs comes Dangerous Animals. A shark obsessed boat captain abducts young tourists to feed the ocean predators below. But when one defiant surfer fights back, he may have bitten off more than he can swallow.
- [37:22]
Raja Bell
Hasi Harrison, Josh Houston and Jai Courtney star in Dangerous Animals only in theaters June 6th.
- [37:29]
Howard Beck
Get tickets now at Dangerous Animals Movie.
- [37:35]
Raja Bell
All right, we are back. I am still just, I'm at awe right now. Before we get to any of the games itself, let's do some bit of an investigative reporting. I want to go to Beck really quickly. So apparently Roz is going to get a crash course on what happens with journalists during basketball games and the stuff that we have to endure. But can you educate people really quickly on what you were doing at the during the Pacers comeback? Mr. Beck, when you were at the Garden, how you left or how you left our distinguished colleague Zach Lowe, you and Pina left him alone in the Garden and you just fuck right just to watch that come back by that by himself. Can you, can you educate the people on what you were doing?
- [38:23]
Cliff
I mean I fully outed all of this on the resillo pod yesterday, so I don't mind regaling our audience with with the same. But listen, when you are covering a game as a reporter and especially if you're on deadline now I was not on deadline the other night. I was not writing, but Pinot was. But most of the media, especially if you're on deadline, but when you are at the Garden in particular, most of the media seating at this time of year with as many media as there are, is up on what they call the Chase Bridge. The Chase Bridge is way, way, way, way, way up in the Garden rafters. It's actually a really good vantage point to watch the court. But it is, it is way up there is the Ninth floor of the Garden, the press room. And the main concourse is, is the sixth floor. The event level, where the locker rooms and the court are and the press conferences are, is 5. So once again, all the stuff we got to do post game is on level five. The workroom is on six, and the press seating for most of us is on nine. The way you get there is either on one slow ass fucking elevator from the 1960s that they never replaced despite spending a billion dollars renovating the building 15 years ago, they left all the slow ass elevators in place, still chugging away. There's like, there's like, you know in the old, like, movies where the dude, like has to pull like the little cage thing first closed and then they pull the doors close or whatever, like, and there's some elevator. It's basically like that. And then there's a lot of like mice running on hamster wheels to actually turn the shit that actually lifts the elevator.
- [39:56]
Howard Beck
I thought you were gonna say like the real mice that are running around the Garden. The rats. No.
- [39:59]
Cliff
Well, there's that too. Yeah, that's just New York. That's.
- [40:02]
Raja Bell
And you guys love this place.
- [40:06]
Cliff
Not you guys. So there's that or there's the stairwells. I take the stairs personally. There's also some escalators, by the way. I don't, I don't do the escalators. I usually just take one of the stairwells, right? I will, I will walk down. But those stairwells, guys, after a Knicks game, especially if they've won, which they were at the time that I left my seat, they were up still like 15 points. Those stairwells are a show, man. And especially if they've won, because it's just, it's just a moving party. And so the smart thing to do for these seasoned journalists is to go, oh, this game is out of hand. It's 15 points with five minutes to go. I think I'm gonna pack up my stuff and start making my way down the stairwell before stuff gets crazy. So I did, and Pina did, and James Herbert did, and Rachel Nichols did, and Chris Mannix did and almost all.
- [40:56]
Raja Bell
They're not our teammates, though. But they not our teammates. So respect to them.
- [40:59]
Cliff
I'm just saying, respect to all of us.
- [41:01]
Raja Bell
Shout out to Rachel, shout out to all the homies, but they're not our teammates.
- [41:06]
Cliff
Many of us thought the wise move at that point was to make our way down to the press room so that we'd be closer to where the press conferences were going to be. So you don't get stuck in and then, like, miss out on being able to do your job or anything and. And also just not get stuck in a crazy stairwell. Yes. Zach stayed up there. He. He noted that Mike Vorkanaugh from the Athletic was the only other Mike had been to my left. So there was, like, five seats between them. They're like the two left in that. That. That stretch. Yeah, I got down to the. And then we're. We're all watching it on TV in the press room going like, oh, this is getting interesting. Oh, that's good. Holy. What the fuck just happened? You should have heard this. This is the fun part because, like, we're a pretty demure bunch, right? No cheering in the press box, no cheering on press row. For the most part, we are pretty contained because we're not. We have no stakes in this, but we will react when something spectacular happens. So in this press room that is otherwise quiet, just watching it on tv, got the broadcast on, listening to. To. To Reggie and Stan and Kevin Harlan, that Halperton shot flies up there in the air, you know, hanging in the air for, like, however long it was. Drops back through the explosion of the press room of like, oh, was like. We all just, like, lost it because it was like, holy shit, who saw us coming? Plus, in real time, we, like, Tyrese Halliburton thought it was a three, thought the game was over. And plus, we're all going, oh, my God, did he actually just do Reggie's choke? So, like, we're we're just like, what the hell? What did. So, yeah, we are still in the building. Lest anybody get this wrong, we did not leave. I and others were in the building. We just happened to be in the press room instead of in the bowl or up on the Chase Bridge. Shit happens.
- [42:53]
Raja Bell
What is. Whatever, Roger, what does this comeback say? Say about. Say about this series? Like, talk about in the Boston series about how, like, when the Knicks were going up on these. We're going down and just making these comebacks, that it might not be sustainable, right? With the. With the Celtics and, you know, when they were going back to Boston, look out for Boston to, you know, get back in the series, because they have been clearly the better team, right? Yeah, the Knicks were the better team for the majority of game one, and they lost it. Does that give you confidence of the Knicks or does it. Is this the. Where are you at on this one compared to the last argument?
- [43:34]
Howard Beck
I still don't know. I still. I am right where I started with this series. I still. I still don't know. For every reason. You just said, like, New York was firmly in control of that game. They had played at a pace that I don't think is prudent for them to play at, against this team for, for any extended stretch of time. But they did it that night and they figured out a way to have the in control and basically have it over and they squandered it. And some of that was incredible shot making by N. Smith, and some of it was missed free throws by the Knicks. Some of it was, you know, turnovers and poor decisions. Like, they, they even escaped on a few bad passes that, that should have had him in even more trouble earlier than they were. And they just fumbled the bag. And so I don't have a good feel for this series. I could convince myself that the Knicks come out and, and use all the avenues that they used in Game one to be up and in control just like they were in Game one, and they'll do that and close in game two. I could totally make an argument for the Pacers playing that style of ball and baiting New York to play it with them is going to not end well for the New York Knicks. And I don't know where I fall on that. I think now I would obviously, like, it's cliche, but since they flipped home court and now they're in the driver's seat, I think Indiana has control of it. That's going to sound really superficial, but it is deeper. I think that, that I've said this before. People always ask me about running with the Phoenix Suns and why, why, why it was, you know, what was it like? And it looked so fun. And I'd say, listen, man, that shit was fun. Once you were in shape to do that. And they'd be like, oh, but everybody can run. I'm like, no, dude, no. The amount of time that it took and the investment in practicing like that that we had to make to be able to do that consistently night in and night out, you would have no idea how fast you have to practice and how hard you have to run and how you have to be conditioned to do that. Now, the trick is, and why this is why it's dangerous is when you go play people, because everyone wants to run. When you go to the park, you see anybody like, like walking it up and getting into a set. No. People are trying to get up and down. That's what people want to do. So, yeah, the, the, the weird thing about it is it's easy to bait people into thinking they can get up and down with you.
- [46:05]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [46:06]
Howard Beck
And they might be successful at it for a while, but. But over the course of time, it is what they do better than you. Indiana does that. They play fast better than you. So you could play with fire and play fast with them all the time. And just because you were up and you thought you were in control, like, this is a good recipe for us. It's not.
- [46:26]
Raja Bell
It's not a good recipe for you. I mean, it felt like. It felt like the Knicks were getting winded and tired by the end of that game. They looked like they were because they play a completely different style, but they looked way whooped by that time when all the three started going and it. Oh, my goodness.
- [46:41]
Howard Beck
But that's the thing, Logan. First of all, like, where. Where it reared its head was, for me was, you know, there were some offensive possessions where they looked higher. But defensively, when I just told you that OKC is attached on every switch, like they're fighting over every screen. They have their hands on you. They're disruptive. Well, juxtapose that to the way the Knicks looked when N. Smith was coming off of those, like, screens and pin downs late. Nick, there's nobody there.
- [47:05]
Raja Bell
Yes.
- [47:05]
Howard Beck
Clean like there. So, yeah, it does wear on you, but you're not conditioned to play like that. The Pacers are conditioned to play like that. So they get you late in games. And we've talked about these two equalizers at the end of games. Jalen, Brunson and Halle. Right. You don't have that advantage anymore. If you're. The Knicks, like, they, they have a. They have a bonafide closer to. They're more, like, experienced and more conditioned to play like that late in games. They go deeper into their bench than you anyway, so they got more bodies that they can throw at those minutes. And now you're playing every other night.
- [47:40]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:43]
Howard Beck
So, like. So now I'm like, oh, I don't have a great feel, but I guess what I'm saying to you is if you made me pick, I'd probably pick the Pacers. Now.
- [47:51]
Raja Bell
What. What is the evolution? Because I think about the pace and I think about the Phoenix Suns, obviously, but it seems like in a way that you guys weren't able to do when you guys were there. They. They're able to. They're able to set the pace at their own in the postseason, but they're able to bend the series to their will because of it. Right. At least deeper into the postseason. Is that the modern NBA right now or like, why are they able to. To just kind of overwhelm a team with that in that way? Right. You know what I'm saying? Where they're just. They're just going, going, going, going, going. And I know you guys did that. I watched you guys in the early rounds in your reign. But as it goes into the conference finals, I don't think we've seen a team like this maybe overpower a team with speed probably since it has showtime Laker vibes.
- [48:39]
Howard Beck
And we did it. Western Conference finals, game one. We beat. We beat Dallas in Dallas. Doing. Doing just that. I tore my calf. And we played a roster like the Knicks, right. So part of your answer is like, we were playing eight people, so now I blow out my calf. Well, Indiana is going 10 deep, nine deep. So they've got an extra body, body and a half to throw at the pace, you know, and if you're going deep into playoff series, that becomes. That becomes important. Right? Because the soft tissue injury is just like one. One more step away. I also think that what we would come up against was Dirk or Tim Duncan. And those teams, they're not going to get baited into getting up and down the court with you. They're not. Why we struggled with the Clippers that year was they had Elton Brand and Chris Kamen and they played through them. You're not going to get baited into going up and down with them. But when you don't have. When your big cat wants to be shooting threes and everything else is a wing player, there's no organic, like, slowdown of play because everybody wants to get up and down. When you throw the ball into the post, if, I mean, look, throw the ball into the post every time down, and guess what's going to happen to the game? It's going to slow down. Right? They don't. They don't have those in that way. So, you know, again, you played. If you played the Nuggets and they were putting it into Jokic all the time, you get them in a much more desirable wheelhouse of score and pace because you have someone to put the ball into. And the Knicks, I think, are going to have to try to look at that like whether that is putting it into cat over and over again, whether that's just telling guys, hey, man, if it's not a great look, like, let's be really intentional about how quickly we get a shot up. If they're great looks, let's get them up. If they're not great looks, let's make these mofos work for a minute. Let's make them work the ball around a little bit. But, you know, to answer your question, we came up against people that could really slow it down on us, and they are playing more bodies, Indiana, that is, than we were.
- [50:48]
Raja Bell
No, it's a good point, Howard. What is Tyrese Halliburton Burton showing the world during these postseason? Besides the fact that he's not overrated?
- [50:59]
Cliff
Not overrated. There were a few overrated chants the other night. Um, so that was fun.
- [51:03]
Raja Bell
I bet they shut that shit up.
- [51:08]
Cliff
Yeah, just a bit. I mean, dude is fearless. He is a killer. He's not afraid of taking the big shots, he's not afraid of missing the big shots, and he's not afraid of taunting the whole city of New York. Eight million people, bro.
- [51:23]
Raja Bell
He's such an asshole. At a game one, he could have taken a two pointer to tie the game. He ended up digging a deep, but his ass ran to the.
- [51:31]
Cliff
He was in the paint. He turned around and went back out.
- [51:35]
Howard Beck
That was the wildest shit I may have ever seen. That was. That was so outrage. That was outrageously disrespectful.
- [51:42]
Cliff
Bonkers. All of it's just fucking bonkers.
- [51:45]
Raja Bell
His, like, the choke side was awesome.
- [51:49]
Cliff
Oh, my God.
- [51:49]
Raja Bell
I don't care. I don't care what the circumstance was that he. That he had his foot on. That was awesome.
- [51:56]
Cliff
All right, hold on. I got a quick, quick generational check here. Did either of you know Logan's gonna say yes? And I'm wondering if Raj is gonna say yes. Did either of you know what Halliburton was talking about in the postgame press conference when he said he didn't want to be accused of aura farming?
- [52:12]
Howard Beck
I just found that out. I just found out.
- [52:14]
Cliff
I was fucking lost. Yeah, I had to Google it. I had to Google it. I'm. I'm old. I. I love the fact that he's. That he. He is wired this way. And I don't think it is contrived. I think this is just who he is. Like, you. You like. It's. Those things are kind of baked together, right? Like, you either have to be wired that way to even want to do that in the first place. If it's too contrived, it'll look forced. Right? Even if you think that he thinks of a little. A little this out ahead of time and that he's like somebody who wants to bait. You still have to have it in you to want to do that and to take all the smoke that comes with it, right? I've always loved that about him. Even going. When he was with the Kings, I always just. I. I liked his game. He's got that unconventional, funky jumper.
- [52:58]
Raja Bell
But, like, that's why you knew in the moment that the Kings up, bro. You do it in a moment because you just don't trade away guys like that. Even if you think he's a role player, you do not trade guys like that.
- [53:10]
Cliff
He's just got, you know, like, I'm sorry. In this era of everything being trackable, you know, raable, metricable. He's got these intangibles that you can kind of see. It is, like, people hate it, saying, oh, swagger, all this stuff. No, that's. That some of that shit's real. And Halliburton had something to him. You could see it early on. It has grown as he has grown over time, as this team has grown around him over time. And that infuses the rest of your crew with. With that confidence, too.
- [53:38]
Howard Beck
That's not even.
- [53:40]
Raja Bell
Yeah, get in.
- [53:41]
Howard Beck
That's not even swagger. While it is swagger. I'm going to say this, like, as. As the biggest compliment I can. That is obnoxiousness. That is just pure. That is in all of its greatness. And they're only. I'm really trying to rack my brain. Steph's got that level of obnoxiousness where you're. Where you're like, why would you. Why. Who would do that? Jordan. Jordan Poole is obnoxious at times where you're like, dude, that doesn't.
- [54:06]
Raja Bell
He's a little. Hey, hey, Jordan. Pool's a little shit. I will say that. Like, as. He could be a little shit. Yeah, I say that affectionately, but I'm.
- [54:12]
Howard Beck
Not saying that they're all the same quality of player, but the way their brain works, the. The. The arrogance that is ball Lamelo. Lamelo has that. Where you're shooting shots and you're like, dude, no one in their right mind would think that they could pull that off. Handing the ball to Cat at the end of the game, like, yeah, you can't get a shot off in point two. But still, like, who does that?
- [54:37]
Raja Bell
I fucking love it.
- [54:38]
Howard Beck
No, look, I love it, too. I've. I was never blessed with that level of. Of confidence. I wasn't. I mean, I was a confident dude, but, like, I can't even wrap my mind around going, you got floater slash layup. And you look up. Now, mind you, this is happening so fast that this motherfucker. You are on top of the rim. You look at that shot clock and say, oh, no. Oh, shit. Let me get back out to the three point line. What?
- [55:05]
Raja Bell
Bro, that's why, like, the choke side was so gangster. Because at the moment, you got to think about it, he thought that he ended the game. He didn't have, bro. He did that on the road in the Garden and said, you know what? Overtime about to go take this. You know who else had that? Larry Bird.
- [55:22]
Howard Beck
Larry Bird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Larry's been wild. Stories about Larry for sure.
- [55:27]
Raja Bell
Yeah. But, like, I get what you're saying, Roger, where it's not. It hasn't. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with ability. Ability does play a part in it, but. But it's the sheer attitude of, like, I just don't give a fuck about you. Like, I don't. I remember you talk about Jordan Poole and him having this. I just want to tell a quick story. This probably is that I wrote about it when he was in. When he was like a teenager or maybe a teenager, like a young teenager. He was probably like 13 or 14 years old. He used to go to the rec center and I believe he was from Milwaukee. And it was like a run that his dad used to do. And he used to cook them old dudes and talk so much shit that they wanted to fight him.
- [56:09]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [56:10]
Raja Bell
That is the type of shit that Halliburton is on. Like, come, come, come fight me, bro. Like, I don't care what you say. I'm gonna say the most outlandish shit. I'm gonna hit it in your face to the point where you're pissed. But what the hell can you say? Because I'm winning, I'm winning.
- [56:23]
Howard Beck
God bless you. I was never wired like that. Like, that's. I. I just.
- [56:29]
Raja Bell
I respect it, though.
- [56:30]
Howard Beck
You respect it till you get your ass whooped. Because there comes a point that can't happen in the NBA. But you running around in gyms with grown men running your mouth and you get your ass whooped.
- [56:40]
Raja Bell
That part, that part. But he ain't gonna be running around. This is why NBA players are different, though, because it ain't the NBA of, like, if he was doing this shit in the 80s, he would get his shit. Like, he would have to fight. Like, Jordan had to fight. You know, these people. Lamelo would have had to fight.
- [56:54]
Cliff
John Starks headbutted Reggie Miller. So, you know.
- [56:56]
Howard Beck
Yeah, yeah.
- [56:57]
Raja Bell
Oh, again, another guy like that. Reggie Miller was another guy like that. The other guy who would do. I would do the same move and run to the three point line to win it.
- [57:05]
Howard Beck
Reggie would do. Yes, Reggie would do that. You're right.
- [57:07]
Raja Bell
And. And like all this, like, Steph does this, the flailing and stuff. And like, like this girl's mad, punchable face. I'm getting really triggered right now. I'm sorry.
- [57:21]
Cliff
All right, all that said, Logan, we love it because this, like, the theater of the game matters to the spectacle of the game matters to the personality mat. I don't want a bunch of Kawhi Leonards running around right like this. Like, the reason we have a reference point of Tyrese doing Reggie all these decades later is because Reggie did it in the first place.
- [57:41]
Raja Bell
And what, what happened in that series, by the way, Howard, I believe the.
- [57:45]
Cliff
Next one, my guy, Tommy Beer, who writes a substack mostly Knicks focused, has had actually a great deconstruction of this today. People can go look it up. I think it was one of his free posts, but it was about the idea of Reggie Miller being always labeled, like, a Nick killer. But, like, in a lot of the bigger moments, like, he had a lot of big moments, but they either lose. Yeah. And so it's. But I, I mean, both things are true, right? Like, if you have those moments, it's because you took them down at that moment. If you lost a series, fine. I think the series ledger is pretty close. But like, whatever, like, the moments happened and it doesn't have to be what, you know, a 100, you know, oh, he was somehow undefeated against the Knicks. Like, yeah, he was a Nick killer at moments and he did it at the Garden, which, you know, every player will still say is like, a really special place to have performances like that. Halliburton just had a huge one. We're going to be replaying that one for years and decades to come. And 20 years from now, some. Some punk kid with the Pacers is going to be, like, doing what he considers to be the Halliburton, maybe not even realizing it's actually the Reggie Miller and.
- [58:56]
Raja Bell
Or the Sam Cassell.
- [58:58]
Cliff
Yeah, I'll take the choke side over the big balls.
- [59:02]
Raja Bell
I'm not mad. Hey, I know it's fightable. And this can. Halliburton's case, it wasn't findable, but I love the. I'm gonna take the Sam Cassello, but not.
- [59:10]
Howard Beck
But not this. Not the Sam Cassell, though. That was. Who? Who What? Wasn't that from, like, major league, was it?
- [59:18]
Raja Bell
Now you're getting out of my way.
- [59:19]
Howard Beck
That was Pedro Serrano, wasn't it?
- [59:22]
Raja Bell
We're locked in Pedro Serrano did the.
- [59:24]
Howard Beck
Like, he hit the home run and trotted around. Yeah.
- [59:26]
Raja Bell
Okay. Get it. Hey, Roger, get in your bag. How about your bag?
- [59:29]
Howard Beck
Someone might have done it before him. I don't know though.
- [59:33]
Raja Bell
What the hell are we talking about now? Sorry. You had a point to make, Howard. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
- [59:36]
Cliff
No, no, that was it. That was it. We're good.
- [59:39]
Raja Bell
Okay. Okay. As this series continues and there's a, There's a stat that I want to. I don't, I don't want to mess up her name. She was on Blue sky and she's great. I would say Karthika. She was great. She had a great.
- [59:51]
Cliff
I think it's Kirtika and I'm not even gonna try to attempt. Yeah, but I'm not trying. I'm not attempting her last name. It's. I'm gonna at some point reach out to her to make sure I. I've got the pronunciation right before I love.
- [60:02]
Raja Bell
To her follow her on Blue Sky. She's great with the stats.
- [60:05]
Cliff
She's great.
- [60:06]
Raja Bell
She's awesome.
- [60:07]
Cliff
Yes.
- [60:07]
Raja Bell
Tyrese Halliburton is 5 for 6 when taking a shot to tie or take the lead in the final 90 seconds of the fourth time of the fourth quarter in overtime. This playoffs. That is tied for the most set shots in a single postseason since 1997.
- [60:23]
Howard Beck
Raja, that's crazy. With who. Who would have done that in 97? Who was that?
- [60:27]
Raja Bell
I don't know. Was it maybe Jordan? Maybe? I don't know.
- [60:30]
Cliff
It may be dated to 97 because that's the play by play era. What the stat keepers will call the play by player. It's when we have enough of the stats on available to, to do those kinds of breakdowns.
- [60:40]
Howard Beck
Yeah, because. So, yeah, this is wild. His run is wild.
- [60:43]
Raja Bell
That's why you, that's why you run your ass at a three point line when you have that.
- [60:48]
Cliff
But this was the whole thing with coming into the series, I thought like, you know, man, you don't want this. You don't want any of these games to be close if you're the Knicks, because Halliburton can do that shit. But then you could go like, oh, you don't want these games to be close if you're the Pacers because Jalen Brunson can do that shit.
- [61:01]
Raja Bell
So, like, that's why I think it's still going seven games. I have no feel for the series. It's one game.
- [61:05]
Cliff
Yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll know more tonight. I'll be There.
- [61:09]
Raja Bell
All right. Are you gonna. Are you gonna be on the Chase Bridge? Are you gonna leave it, like, the second quarter?
- [61:15]
Cliff
We'll see what the score is with.
- [61:16]
Howard Beck
Always beat traffic. Always.
- [61:20]
Raja Bell
I thought we were gonna get wrong, dude.
- [61:22]
Howard Beck
Always. Always avoid the crowd and beat the traffic, Roger. Always.
- [61:25]
Raja Bell
What time do you leave the Miami Heat game? When you. When you. The rare time that you go to.
- [61:29]
Howard Beck
The Miami Heat game, mofos know if they're with me. Whatever game we're at, no matter what's happening Midway through the 4th, we are out. We are not.
- [61:38]
Raja Bell
Roger be hella mad when he has to see someone post game. Like when you had to see Stevie Nash post game. I know you were hella bad.
- [61:44]
Howard Beck
No, no, no. I'm good with that, right? Because, like, if I'm standing waiting for you, post game, then I'm gonna probably be there 45 to an hour after the game's over. And I'm good on the back end, but, like, my kids will be looking at. We go to, like, hurricane games or, like, you know, we go to mostly football games. And I'm. I'm looking at people, they're like, what? I'm like, get your shit. We're leaving.
- [62:03]
Raja Bell
I remember I left it. I did a. I pulled a beck. Me and Beck are apparently famous for this, like, going to post game and dipping out, like, before the tip off. Friend of the show, Sam Amik. Roses every time.
- [62:15]
Cliff
In regular season games.
- [62:16]
Raja Bell
Not in regular season games, not in playoffs. But this happened to me one time. I went to a Warriors Jazz game, and I left. I left before the tip because I wanted to go home. I would watch it at home. It's so much easier to watch it at home, Wesley. You know, we're. We're spoiled in that way. But I get to my car, and this, like, his fan is getting out of his car, and he's like, you're leaving? And he couldn't fathom, like, you're leaving this. What are you. You're leaving the warriors cave? And I'm like, yeah, I gotta go. And he was, like, stuck for, like, at least a minute. Like, can't believe you're leaving, but shit, gotta go. Gotta go. Gotta get over this bridge. Anyways, that's enough talk for now about the series. Cliff in the bubble. How you doing, buddy?
- [63:02]
Unknown
Fellas. Fellas was good, man. It's a Friday. I'm feeling good. Sunny in Philadelphia today.
- [63:06]
Raja Bell
Shout out, Left Eye.
- [63:08]
Unknown
Shout out. Rest in peace, Left Eye Lopez. Shout out, Philly.
- [63:12]
Raja Bell
Oh, she from Philly. I didn't know that.
- [63:14]
Unknown
Yeah. Born. Born and raised in Philadelphia.
- [63:16]
Raja Bell
I thought she was from Atlanta. Okay, shout out to you.
- [63:18]
Unknown
Ah, she moved down there to get famous.
- [63:20]
Raja Bell
Okay. As people. Most people do.
- [63:23]
Unknown
Anyways, let's get to this first question. Speaking of Miami, get real about the Miami Heat. This is from cj So I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Hello, world ones. As a Miami Heat fan, this season did not go the way I or many South Floridians wanted. Getting swept in the first round was demoralizing. Even worse was the embarrassing Game 3 blowout with Shakira sitting on the sidelines, which should be seen as. Which should be seen as unacceptable. My question to you guys, number one, what will the team realistically do based on the past few offseasons and Pat Riley's press conference? Number two, what do you guys want to see the team do? What are your pre pie in the sky wishes based on the current roster and makeup of the team, who would they seek out and who would fit the roster, who should be traded, etc. While the current Miami sports scene is dreary, I'm happy I've got a couple real ones to listen to during a long summer also. Go Panthers. Thanks, CJ.
- [64:12]
Raja Bell
CJ darling.
- [64:13]
Howard Beck
CJ 305, baby.
- [64:15]
Raja Bell
05 in my Yayo county, baby. Okay, what was I gonna say? I think that best case scenario, like, you know, you somehow get Giannis and you're right in the title contention. I think that's something that Pat Riley would love to do. It's not gonna happen. But I'm just saying the best case scenario, Howard. I'm just saying the best case scenario, Howard. What the wor. It's funny because, like, the. What they should do is like kind of retool around. Bam. But I don't know if he's the guy to necessarily retool around. So do you break it down? But I just can't see a world where Pat Riley just admits defeat like this. It just regroups. He's going to go star chasing and try to figure out he'd rather be in the middle than to just admit defeat and go into the lottery. So I think that's what's probably going to happen. He's going to probably tread the middle until a star comes available or somebody that he believes fits in with the culture becomes available and he's going to go try to trade for him. And then they're going to go right back to a version of what they were with Jimmy Butler.
- [65:18]
Cliff
Like the. It's. It's such a tough spot for them to be in. Right. Like, Bam is really good, but Bam's not a number one. I could argue he's not necessarily even a number two. Like maybe he's best as your number three because he's more of a defensive anchor and, you know, versatile player, but he's not, you're not relying on him to carry you night in, night out offensively at all. They need a franchise star like Jimmy Butler was their guy for a good five year run and then things went sour and they had to trade him and you got Andrew Wiggins and a pick like.
- [65:54]
Raja Bell
Shout Out Mike Dunleavy.
- [65:56]
Cliff
I mean, they're not going to tank. Certainly at this stage of Pat Riley's career and the stage of his life. He's not, he's not tanking. As, as Logan mentioned, free agency's tough because, you know, they got Jimmy. I think it ended up being a sign in trade or whatever, but it was, it was essentially free agency. Right? He was, he was free agent that summer. And, and stars, as we know, aren't changing teams in free agency anymore. They're all just forcing trades. They don't have cap room anytime soon anyway, so. So forget free agency. They have two movable first round picks right now, according to Bobby Marks. You got Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware, Jaime Hawkes, Wiggins. Rosier. You're not getting Giannis with any combination.
- [66:35]
Raja Bell
I don't even like Rosier.
- [66:37]
Cliff
Yeah, and like, so I, so there's, there's no. Like, combine your assets for a, for a superstar deal coming here. Maybe if it were like an older star. Like, what if the Clippers decided. You know what, it's, it's time to reset. We're trading Harden or we're trading Kawhi. Like, could you get a guy like, I wouldn't even completely rule out Kevin Durant. Only in the sense that I don't know what the real market is for Kevin Durant at this stage of his career. Because you're going to get him for like a couple of years at the back end, injury risk. You just don't know. I'm not saying Kevin Durant is likely either. I'm just bringing him up as like somebody who is. Has got some.
- [67:12]
Raja Bell
Don't aggregate Howard. Please do not aggregate him.
- [67:16]
Cliff
Yeah, for what that's worth. But you're not getting a guy who's in his prime. You're not getting a superstar in his prime. For what you have to move, you're just not. So your hope is strike gold in the middle to late first round with the picks you've got, you know, like the. You've got the warriors pick. You've got picks coming in future years of your own, but you're going to be treading the middle. Can you. Can you, you know, thread the needle? Find some. Some great prospect in the middle of the first round, or you blow it up. And I don't think they're going to blow it up, so. I know, cj. Sorry, You're. I don't have anything particularly encouraging to tell you about what their path is right now. I. I think their best hope is just to. Is to try to be fine.
- [67:56]
Raja Bell
Lives in South Florida. Yeah, he's fine. He's fine. You see how happy Raja comes on some during the time, like in the winter months, like. You all right, cj?
- [68:05]
Howard Beck
Hey, listen, I agree with all that. Jai. Lucas and them are University of Miami now, bro. They're making a push to keep the hometown kids home. You go check them out down there. The K. The Canes football should be good. Notre Dame's coming into this bad boy week one. You could always swing up to Matter Lakes Academy and check out a young Ty Bell. I don't know what to tell you, but, like, yeah, the. The future out. I agree with everything these two are saying about the Heat, bro. Future, baby.
- [68:33]
Raja Bell
You gonna be at that McDonald's?
- [68:35]
Unknown
Hey, Roger, there's a nice couple clubs down there, too, that C.J. can hang out at, too, right?
- [68:39]
Howard Beck
Oh, yeah, there's plenty of stuff. Now, I'm. I wouldn't be plugged in enough to know that, my boy. I'm like, you know, it's been a.
- [68:44]
Raja Bell
Long time since yours truly was. Hey, hey, hey. You know the vibes.
- [68:48]
Unknown
You know the fucking vibe. CJ just hit up 11, man. It's popping all day. Next one is refereeing. This is from Rob. Refereeing. Evening. Real ones. I keep hearing about how it's a good thing that the refs are not calling as many fouls because it's the playoffs. I live in the UK and follow soccer really closely, but I couldn't imagine a Champions League final between Real Madrid and Chelsea where the refs decide to kick seven shades of shit out of each other and the refs don't call it. Why in the NBA are the playoffs officiated differently to the regular season? Thanks for your time, Rob. Sheffield, England.
- [69:19]
Raja Bell
Hey, man, I've watched, like, a handful of fucking. Fucking Premier League games and La Liga shit. They be beating the shit out of each other in the biggest games I.
- [69:26]
Unknown
Don't want to be flopping. Yo, they be flopping in there.
- [69:28]
Howard Beck
They flop a lot. And they're not, like, they don't get rewarded all the time with, like, with points. When you flop in soccer, like, they're not just giving away PKs all the time for the flops. You know what I mean? It's like, it's, it's different, though. Chill out, Rob.
- [69:46]
Raja Bell
Wait. Let us hoop.
- [69:47]
Howard Beck
Let us hoop.
- [69:48]
Raja Bell
Rob.
- [69:48]
Howard Beck
We out here. We out here for some physicality, man. Like, nobody's. Yeah, bro, like, wait, question.
- [69:54]
Raja Bell
I do have a question for you because I didn't get to ask you this yet. Raja SGA and the officiating, I wanted to ask you about that and your thoughts on that.
- [70:01]
Howard Beck
You know what's fascinating about this for me? My sons and the media push. Like, the media is fascinating, bro. Social media is fascinating. The, the, the drive to, like, make him out to be something that other people haven't been in this league is incredibly frustrating for me. Like, my sons are in here showing. Oh, look at him. He's. I'm like, every scorer in the NBA who's led the NBA in scoring, guess what they did a whole hell of a lot of times.
- [70:31]
Raja Bell
Shots of free throws.
- [70:33]
Howard Beck
Shot free throws. Why is he different? Well, the aesthetics of it are different. Like, yeah, dude, I watched them in game one not call fouls for him for a whole half. I did. Like, people are going to tell me he went to the free throw line and he did, but there was plenty of stuff that he was trying to get that they didn't give him. Look, do, do, do. When he flops, I call it a flop. I'm not saying you reward all of that flopping and flailing. Like, I, I, I've, I've said Brunson is hard to watch. Jokic is hard to watch when they do it. Luka is hard to watch sometimes when they do it. But there's someone. You've done a good job as an offensive player of creating something that is illegal. And when you can master that and it's illegal and you take an advantage by drawing the foul, like, I don't see the problem with that necessarily, but, but neither here nor there. The way the media is trying to portray him, like he is doing something different than anybody else has ever done to earn fouls, really, and that he's being given something that they haven't been giving is incredibly frustrating for me.
- [71:32]
Cliff
I think that's more fans than media. I think that's fans. More fans than media. Raj. I think I think that's like a lot of people from various fan bases on social media, like, ter trying, like, who are pissed off and frustrated by it.
- [71:43]
Howard Beck
You're right.
- [71:43]
Cliff
I don't.
- [71:43]
Howard Beck
You're right.
- [71:45]
Cliff
I mean.
- [71:45]
Howard Beck
Well, you're right. That's why I qualified it and said social media, because I said media at first. But it's more on socials. Right. And that's, that's the narrative that's being driven.
- [71:54]
Cliff
Yeah. And like, you know, who knows, like, if the debate shows are taking this up too and they're like, I don't know because I don't watch that crap. But there's no question that, like, there's nothing particularly unique about what Shay's doing. I think there's a greater focus on that stuff now than there once was because of social media. Also because we all have like high def 65 inch TV screens and can like slow everything down to a millisecond and go like, ah, he initiated her. Ah, he flailed like whatever Michael was doing back in the day or Kobe was doing or a lot of especially, you know, smaller. Not smaller, but like, you know, dynamic athletic guards who can do so much. And, and we didn't have like, there's different technique now that I think it's just the iteration. Right. Like everybody in every era had that they pulled and, and that. And includes big men too, with some of the stuff they would do in the poster or trying to get rebound position or locking a guy's arm and all that, like, all that stuff, the hand on the hip, like there's always been, you know, some of the dark arts involved. It's just more of a discussion now because we have 24. Seven debate shows and we have social media, which is a true 24. 7 debate show of its own kind. So I don't know. But, but Raj, actually, the, the, the listener's question, I was gonna say, like reader Rob says, why are the playoffs officiated differently than the regular season? And I'm not sure I accept the premise, so I wanted to throw this at you. So do you think that the playoffs are actually differently officiated?
- [73:27]
Howard Beck
Absolutely.
- [73:28]
Raja Bell
Absolutely.
- [73:29]
Howard Beck
Absolutely. Like, if I didn't see it with my naked eye and know what I was looking at because I'd been in it so long, I could tell by the reaction that you get from the people that are getting fouled and just utter disbelief that this isn't a foul. And the reason they feel like that is because they're conditioned for it to usually through the regular season, be rewarded and now they're not getting rewarded for it all the time. So I do think it's rep different but I'm. I'm telling you, I'm okay with it. Like, I like a more physical brand of basketball, but I don't think it's really, truly debatable when you watch some of these games and the level of physicality. There was a play, man, it happened right in the. I want to. Dammit. I don't remember what it was. It was sga. But someone had him like bottled up like right around half court. He had just crossed over half court. The amount of times that he got bumped, pushed, shoved. And they didn't call that. They don't typically let that go during the regular season. Even Brunson's had to deal with some of that with, with NE Smith on him last game where like he's trying to get where he wants to go. And this is hand to hand combat. Like these dudes are literally like hand to hand comp. They don't let that shit go all the time in the regular season.
- [74:39]
Raja Bell
Yeah, for sure. I mean I. Steve once told me and I had this. I did this piece on last year's finals called the seven Commandments of playoff scoring and I interviewed a lot of people for it. And one of the commandments was just embrace physicality because it's going to come no matter what in the postseason. And one of the great quotes that Steve said was all the. Is eliminated in the postseason, right? Like all the ticky tack fouls, they pretty much just call it like very. I wouldn't say more. I wouldn't say they're more honest, but they, if they called more fouls in the postseason, it would be seven hour games because they just. There's just so much more physicality inherently in the postseason.
- [75:20]
Cliff
I got, I got a, I got a quick stat for you guys. The fouls, personal fouls per game in the regular season this year was 18.6. Two teams combined. What do you suppose it is right now in the playoffs?
- [75:35]
Raja Bell
Is it 8.6 or 20.5, 20.1?
- [75:39]
Cliff
It's 20.5. So they're calling more fouls per game right now than they were in the regular season. How's that for a counterintuitive stat?
- [75:47]
Raja Bell
Take that for data. Yeah, I mean, so interesting, right? Like the human element of is like, yo, it's more, it's. It's like it's just more physical and they call less fouls. Right? Any player down the line.
- [75:57]
Howard Beck
That's what they're Saying they play more physical, too. Right? So, like.
- [76:01]
Cliff
Yeah. And you're not going to call everything right, Right.
- [76:03]
Howard Beck
And the more physical. Look, look, the more physical a ref is going to be with a whistle, meaning the more he's going to let you get away with, the more typical, the more typically, the more physical it's going to get. Because me, as an offensive player, I'm like, all right, I got to get into Bully Ball. Like, we got it. And that is going to generate more foul calls. So, like, to me, it's not counterintuitive that that stat would go up because, like, they're. The game is. Because of the way they're officiating it, it's being played a lot more physical.
- [76:30]
Cliff
Yeah, I. I will say this, too, real quick. Like, you're getting to the best teams, right? You have the 16 best, which is then down to the eight best, the four best, and those also tend to be some of the best defensive teams. You also have most of the elite offensive players who are, Are, are. Are just good at either getting away with shit or drawing contact or whatever. Like, you're going to perceive the game a little bit different when it's the four best teams left and. And the refs have to deal with a higher level of talent there, where guys are good at either playing without fouling or playing physically without necessarily fouling. Because it's not whether you make contact, literally, it is. Does it affect the play? Does it affect.
- [77:10]
Howard Beck
Do you make it illegally? Right.
- [77:12]
Cliff
Yes. So, like, there's a lot of little nuance to this stuff that is not just like, oh, they just let everything go. I also do think, though, psychologically, if not policy wise, because I don't think it's policy. I don't think the league is saying, go, let more stuff go. I think there, it would make sense to me if you were a referee, that you're. The stakes being higher, you're going to want to defer a little bit more to let them play through it. Then. Then insert yourself as much because the stakes are higher. You're like, I could see them doing it just a little bit differently, even subconsciously. I don't know if that's fair or not. I'll have to. If I run into Money McCutchen again tonight, I'll have to ask him.
- [77:52]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Speaking of rest. And I got one more question after this, Raja. How did you. What were your feelings when you saw Scott Foster get up last night?
- [78:01]
Howard Beck
I got no beef with Scott Foster.
- [78:03]
Raja Bell
No, I mean, a lot of People do. A lot of people.
- [78:06]
Cliff
Do you want Roger rooting for a bloody nose?
- [78:08]
Howard Beck
I don't want anybody to get hurt.
- [78:09]
Raja Bell
You know what's wild? Chris Paul was. Was courtside that game because of course.
- [78:18]
Cliff
People are mean.
- [78:19]
Raja Bell
Cliff, one more question.
- [78:21]
Unknown
Let's do this one. I was saving the best for last. This is from Curtis Young. Russia's fault. A piece in the Athletic about the end of the season in several lines took shots at Westbrook's play in the series ending game. I did not watch the game but wonder about the media's propensity to place major blame for team failures on Westbrook and the learned opinion of the real ones experts. Was this rust hate deserved.
- [78:45]
Raja Bell
Wait first. Before he goes there. I want to just. First to go to Roger because this is Roger's question. What did he say? The propensity to place.
- [78:54]
Unknown
The propensity to place major blame for team failures on Westbrook.
- [78:58]
Raja Bell
That's amazing. That's amazing prose right there.
- [79:00]
Unknown
But remember, he's blaming the media for that one, too, so.
- [79:03]
Raja Bell
Which is. That's fine. I'm talking about the pros of the question. Was. Was very impressive. Shout out to him. Okay, Roger's revving up. Roger.
- [79:12]
Cliff
I'm just gonna sit back. I'm just gonna relax over here.
- [79:16]
Howard Beck
I. I'm. Listen.
- [79:18]
Raja Bell
I know we're gonna do it. It's a movie. What's the movie?
- [79:22]
Howard Beck
It's half baked, right? I know what everybody thinks I'm gonna do coming here. And, like, I'm not gonna do it. Dude. You're not gonna get me today, bro. I'm like 99% out of this pod, dog. I got to do. I'm not about to do that. Not about to do that, man.
- [79:36]
Raja Bell
He was.
- [79:36]
Howard Beck
Let me just do this.
- [79:38]
Cliff
I think the listeners actually just like. Like every week somebody.
- [79:41]
Raja Bell
No, no, no, no.
- [79:42]
Cliff
I'm. Get him going.
- [79:43]
Raja Bell
Clear out. Clear out. Clear out. He got the ball to win. Clear out.
- [79:46]
Howard Beck
What year is Russell Westbrook in someone. I don't have it in front of me.
- [79:48]
Raja Bell
What year is he? 16. 16?
- [79:51]
Howard Beck
Is that accurate? He's in year fucking 16. All right. He's in year 16. Did he play well in the fucking. How are we doing again? We're moving goalposts, dude. We're moving goal. In what world does the person that's in their 16th year, that's on the minimum contract get blamed for a failure of a damn team that is unworldly. We don't do that to anybody but Russ. It's crazy. I feel like I'm taking Crazy pills. If you don't like him, fine. When do we blame the seventh string wide receiver for, like, up a series? Like, when do we do that? The backup quarterback gets blamed for not winning the Super Bowl. Like, it's like looking down at my. Like, the kid I play for. Like, come on, man. It's hyperbolic. Now, Russ played. Russ did play real minutes in that series, and he wasn't great. Right. I get it. But I agree with you, dude. Like, if. If anyone is pinning the narrative that Russ was the problem in that series and that's why they lost, shame on you, bro. That's. That's irresponsible.
- [80:57]
Raja Bell
Tears are in my eyes right now.
- [81:03]
Cliff
That was awesome. That was awesome, Raja.
- [81:05]
Howard Beck
Thanks.
- [81:06]
Raja Bell
Oh, shit. I feel better. You feel better, buddy?
- [81:10]
Howard Beck
I do. Damn it. I don't like trying to contain that sometimes. That shit's got to get out. Yeah.
- [81:14]
Raja Bell
Let it out, bro. Let it out. Worried about.
- [81:17]
Howard Beck
No, Come on, man. I'm team Rush. You already know it. You already know it.
- [81:21]
Raja Bell
You're the motherfucker Fives. You're fucking Fives.
- [81:23]
Howard Beck
Holl at your boy, bro. I got you.
- [81:25]
Raja Bell
I know. Oh. That has been another edition of Real Ones. Oh, God. Oh.
- [81:35]
Cliff
Oh. Real.
- [81:37]
Raja Bell
It got too real. It got too real. Oh, you can catch us Thursdays and Fridays only on the ringer NBA feed.
- [81:46]
Howard Beck
No, but real talk.
- [81:47]
Raja Bell
Real Talk.
- [81:47]
Howard Beck
Let me go back in. Like, it's like, Cliff, we got a bad episode, right? Me, you, and Howard were shit. Or like, me and you did your job and Howard would shit. Or you and Howard did your job and I sucked. And we're blaming.
- [81:57]
Raja Bell
It was definitely shit, right? Yeah. We're playing victorious.
- [82:01]
Howard Beck
Like, what?
- [82:03]
Cliff
I'm blaming Ben Cruz. Definitely Ben Cruz's fault.
- [82:07]
Raja Bell
Connor Nevins. What the fuck, dude? Oh, man. Okay. I think that is just. I think that we can wrap up. That's been another edition of Real Ones. You can get all this when you do. When you tap into realwoodsmailbag. Gmail.com, baby. Real ones mailbag. Gmail.com. real onesmail bag@gmail.com. we do this everywhere every time that Howard is on the program. Shout out to the You. Shout out to Miami. Shout out to the. Yay. Shout out to New York and Brooklyn and all the, you know, the places that. That, I don't know. Williamsburg. I don't know where the hell Howard be at. But anyway. Anyways, we'll see you guys on Monday. Shout out to Victoria. Shout out to Cliff. Shout out to all the homies by.
- [82:48]
Cliff
Foreign.
- [82:57]
Raja Bell
Must be 21 years and older and Present in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino, or 18 and older and present in D.C. you have a gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema. Org or call 1-800-327-50 50 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.