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- [00:01]
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- [00:26]
Howard Beck
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- [00:58]
Logan Murdoch
What's popping Logan Murdoch here for real ones Rajab Bell and Howard Beck and a few Today we are going to bring some optimism to the basketball world, or at least try to with our optimist guide for the teams that are not going to be making the playoffs this year. Who's going to be good? Who do we think is going to be good for the next few years? Who's going to be trash for the next few years? What optimism do we have for all of your teams? Let me get to your mailbag questions and answer those. Those are a lot of fun. Are the Knicks contenders? Are we giving them enough respect? Who knows? All that and more. Real ones up next. Cliff, play the theme music. What's poppin? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck there, Roger Bell there. Cliff on the boards, Balenciaga on the video. We are going to do an optimist guide to the 10 most terrible teams in the league. Basically the teams that are out of the playoff hunt for good this season. We're optimistic people. Let's, let's, let's put some optimism in the air during these trying times. We have three tiers. The Tears of the Tear of Joy, the Tear of Hope and the Tier of Sorrow. Each of us have compiled a list and we're going to go from there. Okay, we're going to start from the tier of joy, which is we actually feel good about these teams despite their records. I'm going to go first. I put Utah, Indiana and I put Brooklyn.
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Howard Beck
Whoa.
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Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Brooklyn in there. And I don't know, Howard kind of put this together. So we're going to just go around. That's my tier. And Howard, what's your tier? And then we're going to go to Roger's tier on the tier.
- [02:49]
Howard Beck
So. All right, so Logan and I agree on two of the three for the tier of joy. And yeah, these are the teams that are like bad by record but that we feel most good about among the bad teams. Among the definitely lottery bound teams. Yeah, I agree on Indiana. Got them in here. I agree on the Utah Jazz. The Nets did not make this tier. We'll get back to them later. I suppose for mine, I have the Dallas Mavericks in the tier of joy alongside the pictures in Jazz. So we, we can, we can discuss our differences here. But let's, let's. Raja what you got?
- [03:23]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I, I mean I have. This was tough for me. You guys know anyone listening? This is not my bag. So I, I had Utah and I went back and forth about Indiana in the joy or hope category. I ultimately put them in the joy, like fractionally and that was it. Those were the only two teams. I could see your argument though, Howard, because I did the same with Dallas. I wound up dropping them below to hope. So I had those two and that was it. It was for me. Utah and, and Indiana.
- [03:58]
Howard Beck
Just the two?
- [03:59]
Raja Bell
Yeah, just the two.
- [04:00]
Howard Beck
Yeah. So I mean, I would just say Logan, I'll jump in here real quick since we all agree on the Pacers. Like the Pacers seem like the easiest one here, right? Tyrese Halliburton's coming back. Siakam's coming back. They've got niece Smith and Nemhorst. They've got their championship core and they've got Zubach who they picked up a couple months ago. They've got a great pick coming one way or the other. Like this one was obvious. This, this one was easy, I think for all of us, right?
- [04:24]
Raja Bell
And Rick Carlisle.
- [04:26]
Howard Beck
And they've got Rick Carlisle who's a hell of a coach, right. I think like. So for me, Utah is here because they're going to get back a healthy. First of all, they're not going to be tanking, so they're not going to be making up excuses for why their best players aren't playing anymore. They're going to play them next year. They've got Markkanen, they've got Jaren Jackson Jr. Now presumably resigning. Walker, Kessler, Keante George has had a breakthrough season. Ace Bailey's actually had a low key by low key because they're in a small market and they're losing. No one's paying attention. But Ace Bailey has shown some stuff and they're going to have a pick. So to me, Utah was easy to Put here. I put Dallas here. I have reservations about the Mavericks, Raja, to be clear, I put them here partially because I didn't want to have everybody in the lower tiers. I was trying to distribute them somewhat evenly here. There's. There's some. I had to make some exceptions. Like, there, I had some temptation to just jam everybody down. Further, the Mavericks, I have reservations. But Cooper Flag is awesome. He does look like a generational talent, as he was hyped to be. Kyrie has been out for an awfully long time, so I don't want to place too much emphasis on it, but Kyrie coming back gives them that one two punch offensively, and then a healthy Derek Lively and Washington and Gafford and whatever else they can do. Plus, they have their pick. Like, I. I think, like, if you're a Dallas Mavericks fan, you have reason for sufficient optimism here. So I think I. I'm good with them in the top tier.
- [05:50]
Logan Murdoch
Okay? So the reason why I have Dallas and the tear of hope is because, literally, by definition, we have some doubts. But the glimmer of sunshine po through is Cooper Flag in their future, right? In their pick. Right. But. But the reason. That's the reason why they're my tier of a tear of hope and I push them down. The reason why I have Brooklyn is because they're kind of untethered. They're. They're. They're. They're empty. I don't know. They're a piece of art that is waiting to be made right there. They have all of their picks. They have, you know, a market that, you know, they can. They can sell. Right? They've tried. They've been in this position before and have flourished, right? When they've had all their picks and they've had. They. They have overachieved in past years in similar situations going into it, and they have something to build. Right. You know, what's the other thing, though? And I'm. And I'm curious about Raj's thoughts on this. I had a little bit of. It's. By definition, they should be in this tier, but Utah, I kind of wanted to bump down just because of what Raja has talked about in previous episodes about Utah and that they. They have been accumulating assets, but as they have been doing that, they have been also accumulating bad habits. Right. Like, all of the years of trying to lose and trying to get another pick, I just don't know how much you just turn that switch on and just be like, okay, we're gonna just. We're gonna build these habits, and we're gonna be really, really good next year. And I. That's. And that's why I wanted to put them in the tier Hope based on the definition, because I have some doubts about them while there's a glimmer of sunshine poking through. Right. So, like, really my tear of joy, what I wanted it to be was Indiana and Brooklyn based on the list. And I put Utah there because it felt like they were supposed to be there. You know, that was just like the. That was the real one's pick. But I do have my doubts about Utah that, all things considered, because I'm scared. Like, you can't just turn these things, you know, you can't just turn these things on. And there's still a lot of growing that Utah has to do when they actually try to win. That's my reservation for Utah in this tier.
- [07:53]
Raja Bell
Well, I think. Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I think that goes for just about everybody in this tier except for maybe Indiana, who. Who can hop right back in with Halle. They've. They've been there, done that. So. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I hear what you're saying, Logan. I just don't know how. Where we draw the line because a lot of these teams are. If we're talking about developing bad habits because they're trying to lose, like, a lot of them fit that mold, right? So, like, I don't know how many games you have to practice that before that becomes infectious and it creeps into your next year. I don't have the answer to that. I looked for a few things. Doing the exercise again, not my bag. Like I was looking, you know, to be in that Joy category. We need a star. Like, we have to have somebody that's in place. I don't want to see you have to go hit on that in the draft. You know, I was looking at, you know, coaching stability and whether they already have that in place. And then, you know, whether you either had hella picks or super amount of cap space to kind of make the moves that you would need to make around that star to be successful. And I, you know, again, I vacillated on Dallas. I hear your. I hear you on that. You know, Howard, with the Kyrie of it all, Brooklyn was interesting. They. They just have so much bread, but they don't have a star. You know, they have a couple. They have a couple things, and they got a bunch of picks and they got a bunch of bread, and so I couldn't put them in there. Because I don't, I don't know what that's going to manifest into. You know, like, it's hopeful for me, but I couldn't put them right in the joy category.
- [09:26]
Howard Beck
I mean, Logan, just real quick on the, the, the, like, the, the culture building part of it, which I, I don't, I don't disagree with you for, for flagging it, but I've run this by some people recently. The whole idea of, like, does it ruin guys to be on a tanking team? You know, the bad habits, the, the low expectations and, and as you say, like, can you just flip the switch? I think where I don't worry about it for the Jazz in particular is like, let's say Ace Bailey. This has only been one year of it for him, right? He just got there. And a rookie who's a high pick with a lot of individual talent just needs some, some reps anyway. Now the adjustment for him is going to be when they're fully loaded next season, he's going to have to take a step back. He's not going to get automatic. He's not going to be an automatic starter. I mean, he may not start. He may be their sixth man. So he may get fewer reps, fewer shots. Everything else, that's an adjustment when you have the veterans back. But to those veterans, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is a pro who has been part of some really good teams in Memphis. Lowry, Markkanen has, has kind of seen the full spectrum of NBA experience. Walker, Kessler, you know, Keonte George has played his ass off regardless of what they were doing. I don't like. There's nothing I look at that seems alarming to me where I worry about the Jazz now finally having all the talent together and presumably healthy and suddenly saying it's time to win and then having a couple years of losing drag them down, like maybe for another group. But I don't, I don't think that's the case here, but we'll see.
- [10:53]
Logan Murdoch
I would like to just flag before we get to the next tier. You did make a great point about roles changing and potentially changing from young guys to older GU guys. Maybe you think of the 1819 Celtics. Obvious it's different expectations for that team, but same thing when, you know, when, when Kyrie came back and there was just so much, you know, malcontent. A lot of that had to do with, you know, Kyrie has been very honest about his role in that. But the big part of that had to do with, like, a lot of young guys trying the Young Jason Tatum, the young Jaylen Brown, they're all trying to figure out their star, what they want to be star roles. And then they're going up against established players and who already have the role and are trying to, you know, The Jared Jackson Jr. Of it all still trying to maintain, you know, what they are in the league. I think that's going to be a fascinating underlining tone of the Utah's next season. It's a good call out by you, Howard. Let's go to the next tier, the tier of hope, which is. We have some doubts, but there's a glimmer of sunshine poking through. I will go first. My list, I already kind of revealed one team, which was the Dallas Mavericks. I also have the Washington Wizards, the Chicago Bulls, the Milwaukee Bucks and the Memphis Grizzlies on my list. This is probably the first. That's five on this list. Yes, there's a glimmer of hope on, on, on all ends.
- [12:11]
Howard Beck
Mr. Optimist here.
- [12:13]
Logan Murdoch
You see me, this was like this. So like I, the thing that I was going back and forth on was like, do I want to have too much optimism, give him tear of joy? But the tear of hope seemed like the good sweet zone of, of, of, of optimism. Right where, you know, we do have some, that's literally the game. We do have some doubts, but there's a glimmer of sunshine going through it. So that's the teams that I picked. Five teams. I'm really optimistic about five teams. Raja, who's on your, your tier of hope?
- [12:38]
Raja Bell
I'm with you, Logan. It was the strongest category for me. Just because, you know, hope, you know, in and of itself is. We're, we're, we're taking a leap here. Like, you know what I mean? We're, we were having some faith in it. We could see a little sunshine poking through. So for me, I had, I had Brooklyn, I had the Wizards, I had the Bulls. Let's see my. I'm on the front and back of the page. I had New Orleans and then. Yeah, I told you I had Dallas in there as well because I didn't put, I didn't.
- [13:10]
Howard Beck
Was that also five?
- [13:12]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I believe so. That five.
- [13:14]
Logan Murdoch
Look at that Virgo symmetry right there. Yeah, look at that.
- [13:17]
Howard Beck
Look at you guys go to the shock of no. 1. I have the smallest tier of hope here.
- [13:23]
Logan Murdoch
I,
- [13:27]
Howard Beck
I did have three teams at the top. I have six total out of the 10 in the top two tiers. So let's, let's not, don't, don't anybody Accuse me of being too. Too cynical or negative here. Um, but my choices are a little bit different than. Than your guys is, so. And you're going to be. You're going to laugh when you start realizing who I didn't include and who is doomed to my tier of sorrow at the bottom. I have three teams here. The tier of hope, the Milwaukee Bucks, against all odds. I know, but I have a case. The Memphis Grizzlies and the Washington Wizards.
- [13:59]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, state your cases, please. Please state your case, Howard.
- [14:03]
Howard Beck
All right, let me. So the Wizards are interesting, right? I think this is, like, temporary hope. Like, how much impact are Anthony Davis and Trey Young really going to make and for how long? Because Anthony Davis, like, the clock's ticking, and Trey Young. The Atlanta Hawks saw the limits of how far you could go with a Trey Young centered team. Are any of their young guys actual future stars? Alex Sar, he's good, but, like, is he. Is he a future foundational star?
- [14:29]
Logan Murdoch
He looks like he should be better than he is, right? That's always. Every time I see him, that's what I think of, like, he should be better at this stage based on all.
- [14:36]
Howard Beck
I'm very curious. Yeah. And he puts up numbers, so you go, oh, well, there's something there. But, like, let's see what he does when he's actually playing alongside two vets now, two established stars in. In Trey and Anthony Davis. But, like, between Sar, Trey, Johnson, Koulibaly, all the young guys, like, I just don't know if there's anybody to pop to really take this forward. And Anthony Davis is. Got a limited time frame left here and has always hurt. And Trey Young is Trey Young. So, like, they've got lots of picks. I think they have a smart front office. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and that's why they get to tier of hope and not lower. But I just don't know how much faith I have there. The Grizzlies, look, Zach, Edie and. And Cedric Coward, those guys are. Are young and legit and full of potential. That front office is super smart. They've got a ton of picks, mostly from the Desmond Bain trade. They've got a Laker 2027 pick. They've got a Suns 2031 pick. I don't know if they're getting anything of value for John Morant, but they're inevitably going to trade John Morant. So I. To me, the tear of hope designation for them is because, like, the glimmer of sunshine is. Yeah, they had to completely deconstruct the team that got them to 50 wins or whatever a couple of times, but it had hit its limits. They, they pulled the, the rip cord and they've got some good young players and a lot of picks and I think a good front office. So, like, I'm, I'm okay with them. The Bucks are the one that was a hard to, hard to put here, right? Because I think we all believe they're going to trade Giannis. And it's hard for me to say there's a glimmer of sunshine poking through as we described this category when your franchise star of the last 13 years is about to be traded. But they're going to get stuff for him. It may not be as much as they want, but they're going to get stuff and they're going to have a top 10 pick, albeit there's some conditions on that pick. And if they do this right, if they get the trade right, they're going to be okay. So I didn't want to put them in the tier of sorrow, even though the very act of trading Giannis implies sorrow.
- [16:32]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. I'm okay. And then.
- [16:35]
Howard Beck
All right, those are my three.
- [16:37]
Logan Murdoch
I, I, I understand. I'm gonna, I have some notes that I'm gonna try to critique your list, but I want to get Raj's list on the. Let's, let's actually get some real hope in here, like with five teams. I am curious though, Raja, can you start off with your New Orleans pick? Why did you pick New Orleans? Why, why do you have what's.
- [16:51]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [16:52]
Logan Murdoch
Of sunshine?
- [16:53]
Raja Bell
Their glimmer of sunshine is like Zion when healthy is still, you know, 20 plus points per game a night. Now, if ifs was a fifth, you know, we'd all be drunk. I could apply that design. I could also apply that to, you know, some of the arguments that Howard just made about the Giannis, what they're going to get, and so on and so forth. But, like, they're there. You, you still have Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, you know this, that core has done things before, like, they've been a play in team, they've been a play off team, but they, but they have, they, they've, they've done that better than almost anybody on this list in terms of a core or, you know, and so when you're looking at hope, that's not hopeless. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I'm not sitting here telling you I'm joyful about it, but that's not hopeless. Now they'd have to get the Pieces figured out around them. They have to stay healthy. But if they do those things, I could see hope there for them.
- [17:52]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, and then what about the rest of your list? How did you. What was the reasons for the rest of your list?
- [17:56]
Raja Bell
Let's just say I agree with what Howard said about Washington. I actually kind of like some of those pieces with. With Trey and. And Aunt David. Like, you know, theoretically, like, I. I think some of those pieces could work with them. They got heavy draft capital. I kind of like that. And hope again, I'm an optimist, I guess, because when you throw the word hope in there, and I'm saying I'm looking for the. For the case that I could make. So for those two, I could make that case. Who else did I have in there? Brooklyn in there. We cover Brooklyn yet?
- [18:27]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we covered Brooklyn. I could see why you would.
- [18:29]
Raja Bell
Yeah, we did. Yeah. Brooklyn. Dallas was in my list, but we covered them already. I don't necessarily agree with Memphis. That's too big of a leap of faith for me with Memphis. You know, like I told you, I could kind of see through the forest, through the trees with the. With the. Okay. With the New Orleans roster that had some pieces that have kind of done that before. I don't see that the same way for Memphis. Who else was on my list? That was my list, right.
- [18:54]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Howard Beck
You had five.
- [18:55]
Raja Bell
Yeah, Bulls and I had Bull. I had the Bulls and the Bulls. The Bulls was simply because they are going to be flush with just, like, money and picks, like, they could do whatever they want. Now they got to figure out a coach.
- [19:07]
Howard Beck
You know what the Bulls don't do well? Money.
- [19:10]
Raja Bell
Money.
- [19:11]
Logan Murdoch
No. Well, that's the. We have some doubts. That's the. We have some doubts right there. But, you know. Yeah, but that's. Yeah.
- [19:18]
Howard Beck
They don't spend. And they. I mean, you know what? They actually. They've drafted decently at times, but none of those guys have stuck around because they. They don't get anybody who's actually a foundational star.
- [19:27]
Raja Bell
So, yeah, they're.
- [19:28]
Cliff Augustine
They're.
- [19:28]
Raja Bell
I looked up there, like, what they had available, like, after. I mean, what's coming off the books this year.
- [19:35]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [19:36]
Raja Bell
And then next year. I mean, they're basically a blank slate. Like they're a ball of clay. You could do whatever you want with that fucking roster. So that was my. That was my case for that.
- [19:45]
Logan Murdoch
I don't know. I got a couple thoughts on that on this list because I think me and Rogers are pretty similar on Chicago. The thing that's frustrating with me is with the Bulls is they. They have the market, they have the, you know, the. The team with the. With the good propaganda of the Bulls. Right. It seems like a team that you would want to play for. Ownership has just really just messed them up over the last few years. And that's the frustrating part because the Bulls should be good. When the Bulls are good, it brings a lot of energy into Chicago and by extension the league. They figure it out and try to figure it out. The thing that I. I would. I want to ask you about is Memphis, Rajit, because on one end we were talking about the Jaw trade. Is it the worst thing in the world if they don't trade Ja? Right. Because they're going to lose. Feel like they're going to be losing in all intents and purposes, regardless of whether he's in there or not. Right. Like he's. Seems to be pretty untradable at this point because the, you know, ever since Howard, you know, broke the news here on real ones that he was probably going to get traded at some point, they've been trying and there hasn't been any suitors, but as you're rebuilding, they're not necessarily great with Jaw on the floor at this particular moment when he is on the floor, they still, you know, are at a. Out of the playing race. Can. Can they just keep this going with Ja on the roster, you think?
- [21:05]
Raja Bell
But could they?
- [21:06]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, like, not sure. Or try to just reach their goals if they feel like, hey, we're not going to get anything for Ja, let's just keep. Let's just run it back. We're just. And just build around the margins.
- [21:16]
Raja Bell
No, I'm on record, having said, once you get to a certain point in these relationships, there's no going back. Having no one in Memphis that reports to me or that I can speak to. I honestly am, before full disclosure, don't know. But reading the tea leaves of that, looking at everything that's happened there, I think they have reached that point and have been there for a while. So could you. Yeah. Is it going to be healthy or the healthiest environment for all the parties involved? No. How quickly you think you can get that turned around and be actually playing for something would probably. Therein would lie the answer to your question, Logan. Like if we have another year of, hey, we have to tread water. A year and a half of treading water until we can get the pieces to really think that we're viable. Yeah. Having him around is not the worst thing. Again, not going to be the healthiest But I don't think that you're going to reach your goals as a franchise and as a team with John Morant and the current coach Slash, you know, like there's a disconnect there. So I think one or the other one has to go for you guys to be the best version of yourselves. That's just me. That's just my opinion on that. And Howard, I hear what you're saying about that front office and smartness and you know, they do have a war chest of like draft picks and shit like that. It's just a tough market sometimes. Memphis.
- [22:48]
Howard Beck
Sure.
- [22:48]
Raja Bell
You know, so for me that went into the, you know, I just explaining why I didn't have them there. That went into it for me. And the fumbling of the Ja Morant. Not necessarily from a team perspective, but Ja was complicit in this too. And just how devalued he is as an asset. Like I. Those two things were hard for me to get past.
- [23:06]
Howard Beck
Yeah, I mean they built it once, right. You know, Ja was a second overall pick and so that one's almost like a layup when you're drafting there. But like Jaren Jackson was a little bit lower and Desmond Bain was what, late first round or second round? Like there's a track record there of being able to pull this off and making smart moves, drafting well, developing well. Like they've brought a lot of. There's been a lot of guys, you know, including like, you know, Ed and Coward now. Right. Like they've got, they've got a. Some of this is me having confidence in a franchise, in ownership, in front office or not that factored in for me. Not just who's on the roster right now, contract status, draft picks. It's. To me it was, it was a kind of combination of everything. And yeah, Grizzly's got more benefit of the doubt as an organization for me than some of the other teams on this list that we'll get to when we get to our tier of sorrow.
- [23:55]
Logan Murdoch
Wanted to stay on Ja real quick with you back. Could this be like a Stefan A. Marbury situation where he's on a high level contract and they just, you know, there's just an, a growing impasse between player in front office that the guy is not tradable in that moment. And it just, just like it could be a whole thing. I mean, I'm asking you because you had. You're right in the middle of that whole situation. Could it be?
- [24:18]
Howard Beck
I mean, could it be.
- [24:20]
Logan Murdoch
I see that there's some parallels There
- [24:22]
Howard Beck
they had to banish Marbury and eventually buy him out. And then he went and signed with the Celtics and then his career ended and he went to China. I don't see that here. So Ja has two more seasons left at 42 and almost 45 million. Which is why it's part of the reason why it's hard to trade him. That and the fact that there's been some erosion in his game and his athleticism and obviously all the off court stuff and just his general being kind of difficult. I don't think buying him out or like a wave and stretch or something is, is an option here, Logan. So I understand what you're saying. It's not. Also, the relationship between Marbury and the Knicks was like super fucking toxic. And with John the Grizzlies, it's like it's reached an end point. Clearly there's a, there's a fork in the road and they're probably done with each other, but I don't think it's nearly that. That level. So I, I would, I would make a distinction there.
- [25:18]
Logan Murdoch
One other thing that I wanted to discuss though, like just about Washington before we get to the, the next tier. Washington. I think one thing you gotta, one thing I would keep my eye on is the relationship between the front office and ownership. Because this is very, looks like very much also looks like a mandate from ownership of like hey man, this tank and stuff is, is. Is. Is cool and all but like we. Not about that. We're not trying to be losing year in and year out, get some shit done. Right? Right. And it doesn't seem like there is a, it's starting to see like there isn't a parallel path between those two entities. Right. Very clearly the front office had an idea of what they wanted to do going into it and that has changed drastically with these two trade. With these two trades. If I had to make a prediction, there might be an impasse coming on the horizon between those two sides. I mean the ownership at Washington has been, has had its ups and downs as everyone in D.C. can can attest to. But I think that we're going to have a couple more of those in the coming years. Especially if this, this, these two trades of Trey and AD blow up in the, in everyone's face. So we'll see.
- [26:26]
Raja Bell
I would just say this. Of all the teams that we have in this, right, of all the teams that we got lumped into these and we're trying to sift and place in these categories, they have the two best players. Don't they?
- [26:39]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, but available. Best ability is availability. I don't know if AD is gonna.
- [26:42]
Howard Beck
I mean but Halliburton and Siakam, I would put up against any twosome. Okay. Of our bottom 10 teams. Right.
- [26:48]
Raja Bell
But that we had them in. Okay, fair. But we're just in this tier in, in this tier for sure. And arguably like competitively of all the 10 teams like they. Them, Indiana, like anybody else you'd put in that, that would have two guys. I mean Coop, Coop and Kyrie of Kyrie's playing well. Like I. I think they're a level above the. The Utah's. Like when those two are healthy bona fide stars. Like they're two bonafide now who have never played together. Typically from what I've. What I've seen. Like and I've made the mistake early on when I was on air of, of not trusting that two really good players could figure out how to play together. What I've learned over the last few years is you throw really good players out there. Even some that I think duplicate each other. Now there have been some instances where it didn't work, but provided they're willing to do it, they tend to figure those things out. And so that's all I'm saying about Washington. I just. Man, it might be bad, but I could really make a case for that not being that bad. Especially if they hit on a draft pick to go with what they already have to support them. I don't see it as being terrible.
- [27:58]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I just. I think I'm just. I'm concerned that we're going to see or a repeat. Excuse me, of what happened in Dallas where it's like you're trying to accomplish two goals at the same time that aren't necessarily realistic. Right. Like AD and Kyrie in the beginning of this season. If you put them fully healthy in Dallas, they want to win a championship. And Cooper, I'm sure he wants to win a championship but has to develop into that player. Right.
- [28:21]
Raja Bell
But they don't have Coop though.
- [28:22]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, that's true. But my. That's true.
- [28:25]
Raja Bell
They don't have anyone that you gotta carve out that room for.
- [28:28]
Logan Murdoch
This is.
- [28:28]
Howard Beck
This is why doubts about them because
- [28:30]
Logan Murdoch
they all stop now.
- [28:31]
Howard Beck
As in the veterans they just acquired, not in the young guys that they have. So.
- [28:34]
Raja Bell
Yeah, but how long are we. But I guess then how long are we waiting? Why these exercises are hard for me. Like how long are we playing this out before we're expecting the return?
- [28:42]
Howard Beck
Yeah, well, that was why I said so if they're in our tier of hope, which we've all got them here. I My first two words that I typed next to the Wizards was temporary hope because, like, they're going to get a little bump from year one of Trae Young and Anthony Davis, assuming those guys are healthy enough and play most of the season. But how long does that last? And at what point are the young guys ready to step into bigger roles or take over as Anthony Davis ages out? But I mean, Roger, you're right. Like, and I'm not saying Anthony Davis and Trey aren't compatible by any stretch. I just, we don't know. We don't know until we know that's fair until they're out there.
- [29:17]
Logan Murdoch
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- [30:30]
Howard Beck
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Raja Bell
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- [32:31]
Logan Murdoch
its subsidiaries or affiliates okay, let's go to the last tier.
- [32:37]
Howard Beck
I think I should go last on this one.
- [32:40]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I have. I have New Orleans and Sacramento. Very excited about that one. Raja, who do you have on your. Yeah, your Tier of Sorrow?
- [32:50]
Raja Bell
I have Sacramento. I had Memphis in that and I have the Bucks.
- [32:55]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, you have the bucks. Okay, stay on that one. Real quick. Why do you have the Bucks? Why are they hopeless for the foreseeable future just because they're not going to win and they're not going to have a generational talent and they're not going to be relevant.
- [33:07]
Raja Bell
Thank you, Francis.
- [33:08]
Howard Beck
But other than that.
- [33:10]
Logan Murdoch
Other than that. Why do you say that?
- [33:11]
Raja Bell
It was pretty simple. It was pretty. It was pretty simple, man. Your glimmer of up the best thing that happened to your organization in the last, I don't know, however many years. We are now at a point where neither one of us likes each other and we're going to have to get rid of that.
- [33:24]
Logan Murdoch
And.
- [33:25]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I just, you know, we're going
- [33:26]
Logan Murdoch
to have to pretend. We're going to have to pretend you like each other until the statue goes up.
- [33:30]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Everyone here, everyone listening knows, like, if you want. If you want full detail on what a front office looks like and what their track record looks like in terms of, you know, signs and trades and like, I'm not getting into all of that. You're getting rid of the best player in your franchise's history. You're not good now, or possibly the best player. I just. I don't see the hope immediately for them. You're going to get shit back. But I don't know what that is. I don't, you know, I don't know.
- [33:56]
Logan Murdoch
Howard, let's. Let's see your sad ass list that's longer than everyone else's.
- [34:01]
Howard Beck
Oh, man. And I was tempted to have the Bucks here, too, but like I said, I found the silver lining there, which is that I do think they're going to get stuff back for Giannis, and I do think they'll pro. Like, we don't know until the lottery happens where their pick's going to land and whether or not there's the one going to Atlanta or whether they're keeping it, all that shit. But they're going to have a top 10 pick, most likely. So I. I think they'll be okay. I was tempted to put them here. I did not want to have, like, 17 teams in the tier of sorrow, so I have four. I have the largest tier of sorrow. Shocker. We all agree on Sacramento. Sorry, Sacramento, you are unanimously in the tier of sorrow. Logan and I agree on the Pelicans being here. And then I have two teams that you guys already listed up higher. I have the Nets here and I have the Bulls here. Let's start with the team in my backyard, the Brooklyn Nets.
- [34:50]
Logan Murdoch
Let's do it.
- [34:51]
Howard Beck
All right. Their best player is Michael Porter Jr. Who they acquired mostly because it also Got them a 2032 unprotected Denver Nuggets pick And it made use of Cam Johnson, who they flipped in that deal. Is Michael Porter Jr. Here for any length of time? Like he's been here for a full season so far, but like he's. Is he part of the core going forward? I don't think so.
- [35:12]
Logan Murdoch
Well, they tried to trade him, but nobody really wanted him.
- [35:15]
Howard Beck
No, I think, I think there's a market and I think they're just trying to figure out how much they can get. But I think they also may be overplaying their hand. Nick Claxton still here. They probably should have traded him by now too. They still owe a 2027 swap to Houston. Other than that, they do have picks. They have all those Knicks picks that they got from Mikhail Bridges. They have the hope of being in the New York market for what that's worth. But listen guys, they went.05 on the 2025 draft. I know that sounds really fricking harsh, but they went over five. Are some of those players going to be okay? NBA players? Sure. I put this question to a rival front office person within the last week where I said, are any of those five? Have you seen enough from any of those five? And they're all rookies, they're young, I get it. They can develop. But I asked the question, are any of them look like full time career long starters? Just that, not even all stars, just full time starters for a, for a length of time. The answer was no. And that's consistent with most of what I've been hearing all season, which is, yeah, some of these guys have some stuff to their game, but like there's nothing that's really, really popping and you want something to pop at some point. Zach said it on, I think on Bill's pod the other day, they're probably, oh, they have five first round picks and none of them are gonna make an all rookie team. Probably that's a really bad sign. So your best players are Michael Porter Jr. Who's like 29 and Nick and an injury history and, and expensive. And Nick Claxton, like there's. I don't know what there is to grasp onto here other than picks, cap room, flexibility and the market. And those are not nothing. But when we're looking for hope in the near future here, I just, I don't see it. Maybe they end up with a great pick and a great player in this draft and maybe that helps kickstart them. And guys will want to come to Brooklyn. They should. It's a wonderful place to live. I can vouch, but I just don't see where the Nets have any semblance of anything going. That makes me have confidence in where they are right now. So I have them there. My other outlier pick compared to you guys was the Bulls. Here, listen, this is the least creative and ambitious front office in the entire NBA and with cheap ownership. Logan, you talk about Chicago being Chicago's awesome. Yeah, but, but that aura. They've been clinging to the same fucking aura since 1995. Like, like they, it's been 30 years or, you know, a little less than 30 since the last championship with, with Jordan. They've not gotten anybody since then. They finally, they're always too, too little, too late. They finally traded Vuch. They finally traded Kobe, White and IO Dasunmu. They got nothing of value for any of them except a bunch of second round picks. Buzzelas and Giddy are both pretty good and have some promise, but like, are those future foundational stars. I just, I don't trust anything about where this organization is or where they're going because they've shown us nothing. So there you go.
- [38:08]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, that's fair.
- [38:09]
Raja Bell
I'm not, I don't have a ton to add. I'm not mad at either one of those arguments, Howard. I think both of those teams for me fell on the line of. Could be in either category for me. Right. I went with the hopeful, but like they weren't close to being joyful at all. They were closer to being sorry than being, than being hopeful. And so I'm not, I'm not mad at those arguments at all. I don't have any pushback and I
- [38:39]
Howard Beck
have the Pelicans here. Who, let's see. Raja, you had them in tier two. Yeah, in a tier of hope. And Logan, did you have them, the tier of hope also?
- [38:47]
Logan Murdoch
Absolutely not. I had them.
- [38:48]
Howard Beck
No, you had them here.
- [38:49]
Logan Murdoch
I had them right here.
- [38:51]
Howard Beck
Okay. Do you want to speak to it first? You want me to go?
- [38:53]
Logan Murdoch
Well, I, I just, I don't have. I feel bad about this, but they're clinging to the hope of, of Zion, who they, I don't even think they really want on their roster like that. And they're. We've seen. The proof is in the pudding of what Zion is. And they also don't have any, any recourse of putting players around them because they don't have no picks. Right. So they're just in the, the ultimate purgatory. And they also have an organization that doesn't care about basketball. Like, I think those are the big, the high level things right here. We can get into the semantics of like, it's the Saints organization. It's like, oh, this is like a very. This, this Pelican thing is a vanity charity type of deal here. That's literally how they treat them and it's how they've always treated them. There's really no hope. I, I saw, I read some stuff that they're, you know, they're trying to get a new arena there. I don't think there's going to be much support on that. It's just a hopeless franchise that. I mean, they have a good. I think they have a solid fan base of people, at least on online, who like to, you know, on people for getting mad at them or, or, or telling the truth about their organization. But they come. Probably. They do come out. They flock.
- [40:05]
Raja Bell
Come out the.
- [40:06]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, they flock. But I mean, they did.
- [40:08]
Raja Bell
I can't speak to now. Well, like when we played, like, they, they'd be out there.
- [40:11]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, yeah, they would be out there. I just, I think they're just a rudderless organization and a hopeless organization and they have no, you know, good future. Just like the other team that I think we're all going to agree on. The Sacramento Kings, baby. It's funny because they have all their picks.
- [40:28]
Howard Beck
Unanimous pick in the tier of sorrow, I think.
- [40:30]
Logan Murdoch
I believe so. I believe so. They have all their picks. They in, they, they. They just. They have an owner in Vivek Granadive that is just probably the worst. Is he the worst owner in the league right now and he runs things. I don't care. I don't care what figurehead that he puts in place to be the general manager. He's running the team. And also the person that's sitting next to him at any given moment on at Golden 1 Arena is also running the team. It's. It's just terrible. And I feel for the Sacramento Kings fans because they make so many excuses, mostly out of coping mechanism because they, they're just glad their team is still in town, which I definitely can empathize with. But they have a terrible ownership face of their ownership group and by extension they're never going to be good because he's always going to override decision making there. It just is what it is. The Kings are terrible. I don't have anything else to say. Is there anything more, Beck, you probably could say more succinctly why they're terrible and just all the things, but those are the broad strok there.
- [41:37]
Howard Beck
They're the worst combination. Right? You can be bad, but have some upside or be bad, but be interesting or whatever. They're bad and boring. They're just not interesting in the league.
- [41:46]
Raja Bell
And old and expensive.
- [41:48]
Howard Beck
And old and expensive. There's four things you don't want to be at the same time. Jesus. Thank you, Roger.
- [41:52]
Logan Murdoch
It's a perfect storm of ass. Just a perfect storm. They.
- [41:56]
Howard Beck
They absolutely. They absolutely need to. And want to trade DeMar DeRozan and Zach LaVine. The problem is in this era of the NBA, with the second apron, it's really hard to do that. Like 10 years ago, whatever the version of that would have been with really expensive older vets who had been all Stars, you'd probably find a way to offload them and not have to maybe give up picks just to do it. In today's NBA, it's really hard to unload a DeRozan and Levine, so they're probably just stuck with them until the end. And those guys are under contract for another. Another year or two. Malik Monk still under contract. They gave Keegan Murray that big extension because they're somehow convinced he's going to be a future star. And he just hasn't shown anything like that. Demonic.
- [42:40]
Logan Murdoch
In fact, they were saying that he was the next Kawhi. In sack. They were saying that the Keegan Murray was the next Kawhi.
- [42:47]
Howard Beck
The most dangerous thing sometimes in this league is, is believing in your own picks too much and, and like, just having like, ultimate faith and then paying guys on faith and being wrong. I don't know if they've got any young guys at all with. With star potential. I don't think they do. And then the Demona Sabonis is. Is essentially their franchise pillar. He's fine, he's good, he puts up numbers, but he's expensive. And I. And he's. And there's. I think there's a hard ceiling when he's the guy you've sort of built around. And yeah, to Logan's point. And again, this is the theme for a lot of the teams I've named in the. In the lower tiers here. I just don't have faith because of the owner like Scott Perry's leading that front office now. I like Scott a lot, and I think he's. He's really smart about the NBA and he knows talent, and I think if he has given the latitude and the time to do it, he'll do things right. But it's going to take them a while to get off of some of these big contracts. And, you know, I think right now Ranadive is. Is backing them and is giving them the room to do the tear down that they have to do. But at what point is he going to get, get antsy again? Which is how they ended up with DeRozan Levine in the first place. And Scott Perry, he couldn't stop meddling and he pushed them into these bad trades. So like he, he's good until he's not. Like he's hands off until he's not.
- [44:00]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, Scott Perry, watch your back, man. I. Watch your back. Yeah, and watch, watch courtside because that person, whoever is sitting next to Vivek is, is, is. Has more influence than you do on that night. So watch your back. It's going to be. What a terrible organization. Jesus.
- [44:16]
Howard Beck
Can I just note quickly on, on, on the Pelicans because I like Roger.
- [44:21]
Logan Murdoch
Come on, bro. Like we're dog. Just terrible, man. We were just.
- [44:28]
Raja Bell
Yeah, we were just saying like to be mine. I'm, I'm. Listen, man, I don't. Yeah, it's not good, man. I'm not gonna just shit all over them. I don't know anyone out there. I've never really met Vivek or, or any. But I, it's, it's not, it's not a great place to be as a franchise.
- [44:44]
Howard Beck
Yeah, real quick on New Orleans because I, I hesitated to put them here because I like so many of their players, like Trey Murphy's a good player. Herb Jones good player. Derek Queen's been kind of fun. Jeremiah Fears is like there's some good talent here. It's not like they're barren of talent. And Zion of course has all the talent in the world. But like Raja, to your point about ZION, he's played 59 out of 76 games this season, which is like a, you know, small miracle and they still suck. Like somehow a Zion based team is just not getting anywhere and they've got, and it's not a lack of talent around him. They've got players. They've made a lot of super questionable to just horrendous moves in the last year, including offloading the pick that is now going to Atlanta. Like if the pel. Like we would have a lot more hope for the Pelicans in this discussion if they owned their pick right now, but they don't because it's going to Atlanta.
- [45:39]
Logan Murdoch
Two phone Dumars.
- [45:41]
Howard Beck
So I just, I just don't have a lot of faith in who they are and where they're going. And yeah, to Logan's point too, the ownership there, this is a Saints based organization. Ask anybody who's worked for the Pelicans, played for the Pelicans. They are an afterthought. I think the only other good thing I could say is like, I really like smoothies and Smoothie King smoothies. I've had a very good experience with Smoothie King smoothies during my travels over the years, and that's the name of their arena. But their arena sucks. The Smoothies are better than the arena. They should probably. They'd be better off.
- [46:14]
Logan Murdoch
And that's saying a lot, man.
- [46:16]
Howard Beck
Actual Smoothie king. Yeah.
- [46:18]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. No, I'm not, I'm not a fan of Smoothie king either. It's. I had it once when I was living in Atlanta and I was like,
- [46:24]
Howard Beck
man, give me home down the smoothies.
- [46:27]
Logan Murdoch
Just get me home, man. You know this. And I had a smoothie other day at Whole Foods in Berkeley and that was so much better.
- [46:35]
Howard Beck
Wow, look at you. Can't even, can't even say something nice about, about the smoothies.
- [46:39]
Logan Murdoch
Nah, I'm good. Oh, God, this just made me depressed. We should have did this to start anyways.
- [46:44]
Howard Beck
How about this before we leave this discussion, Logan, one more like over like a, a blanket question about the 10 teams we just discussed. Which of these teams do we think actually could make? Aside from the Pacers, who are obvious, is there any other team that we think might actually make the playoffs next season? Even as an eighth seed? Even through the play in.
- [47:03]
Logan Murdoch
Probably Utah. I would say Utah.
- [47:06]
Raja Bell
Dallas.
- [47:07]
Logan Murdoch
Ooh, you think Dallas, huh? Okay.
- [47:10]
Raja Bell
I mean, yeah, Yeah. I mean it provided Kyrie's back and looks good. I say Dallas.
- [47:15]
Logan Murdoch
Let me just try to be. Yeah, probably. Can you make the case for Washington and a weak Eastern Conference?
- [47:21]
Howard Beck
People, People started making that case for them when they got AD and Trey. I don't see it because the east is improving and I just, Maybe, maybe, maybe. But I just, I'm not, I'm not buying it. Yeah, I think I'd pick Dallas. I think of all these teams aside from Indiana, who's who, you know, we're going to be right back into contention. I think, I think the Mavericks are the one that I would expect to make the biggest leap and be potentially playoff.
- [47:46]
Logan Murdoch
I think I'm going to do Utah because I just, I, I, I love Kyrie in his game. I'm curious to see how he's going to come back from the knee injury at his age. I just need to see what this front office is going to do. You know, they're just pretty improving right now.
- [48:00]
Howard Beck
Well, we don't even know who the front office is to the point.
- [48:03]
Logan Murdoch
Exactly.
- [48:04]
Howard Beck
Higher one. We don't know who's staying or who's going.
- [48:06]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Whereas, like, Utah. Like, I know what they are. They just got to play fourth quarters, so they'll be fine.
- [48:12]
Howard Beck
Just.
- [48:13]
Logan Murdoch
Let's play fourth quarters. Just play hard during the fourth quarter. I think you can get to the playoffs.
- [48:16]
Howard Beck
Don't. Don't get. And you'll get. Don't get deviated septum surgery in. In. In February.
- [48:22]
Logan Murdoch
Right. You could have.
- [48:23]
Howard Beck
You could have.
- [48:24]
Logan Murdoch
I think they could have made the playoffs this year. They was, you know, or at least a play in the play in. If they would have just cared. I think they could. There could have some chance. They could have been a play in. They played a lot of teams hard. Okay. Anyway, let's go to. Let's get. Let's see. Cliff. Cliff, I'm. What's up, bro? What's up? What's going on?
- [48:43]
Cliff Augustine
Fellas, fellas, fellas. What's up, man? Happy Tuesday, Howard. Happy Tuesday, Raj. Happy Tuesday. It's getting better on the east coast, man. The weather's looking good.
- [48:49]
Howard Beck
So I'm just in nice out right now.
- [48:51]
Cliff Augustine
Yeah, it's perfect. Perfect.
- [48:52]
Raja Bell
What is that. What does that mean?
- [48:54]
Logan Murdoch
Just what does that mean, bro? Like, what does that actually mean?
- [48:57]
Cliff Augustine
Araja, when the trees are blooming. That's how you know it's good out here.
- [49:00]
Howard Beck
That's how you know sunny. It's Sunny in the mid-70s right now.
- [49:03]
Raja Bell
Oh, all day.
- [49:05]
Howard Beck
Yeah, that's right. And of course, two days from now, it'll probably be back to 40 and cloudy. That's.
- [49:10]
Logan Murdoch
That's just Roger F. To get on a flight. You know how much he loves New York. You about to get on a flight?
- [49:16]
Raja Bell
Might be. I may be in Philly next weekend. They'll cliff them up.
- [49:19]
Cliff Augustine
Say no more. Say no more. Maybe a quick, quick little stop by Temple, huh?
- [49:27]
Logan Murdoch
A little unofficial. All right.
- [49:29]
Cliff Augustine
All right, let's get this first one. This is from Robert White. This is titled Dark Horses Headed into the playoffs. Hello, fellas. Love the show and love seeing you guys rocking it out on Netflix. I'm sure you'll probably do a pod on this soon at some point, but wondering if you guys have any Dark Horses that can make some noise in the playoffs. After watching the Hornets handle the Knicks a few days ago, I know they're going to be a tough out, whoever they match up against in the east and in the West. Not trying to kiss up the Rajah, but the Suns are getting healthy at the right time, and they too will be a tough out. Both the Hornets and the Suns run some really creative sets that especially take advantage of overly aggressive defenses. Question is, can they do enough defensively to make a long run? Appreciate you guys. Black Rob, emphasis on Black Rob. In Maine. In Maine, of all places.
- [50:12]
Logan Murdoch
Shout out, man. Keep up.
- [50:14]
Howard Beck
And he calls himself Black Rob.
- [50:16]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, keep up alive. Keep up alive.
- [50:20]
Cliff Augustine
Robert White, AKA Black.
- [50:21]
Raja Bell
Whoa.
- [50:23]
Logan Murdoch
Let's get it. I heard Maine's a great place though, like in the summertime. You heard it.
- [50:26]
Cliff Augustine
Beautiful in the summertime.
- [50:28]
Howard Beck
Gorgeous.
- [50:29]
Logan Murdoch
Yep.
- [50:29]
Cliff Augustine
Beautiful in the summertime.
- [50:30]
Logan Murdoch
That's not on my, like, it's just too far for me to justify going every vacation. But like, I heard it's like really, really nice.
- [50:36]
Howard Beck
You don't realize how big Maine is until you drive it. Because we've driven from here and you're just driving for a very, very, very long time. Even within Maine, it is, it, it's, it's freaking.
- [50:44]
Logan Murdoch
Well, it's because on the east coast, like, it takes like two hours to get through states, bro. It doesn't even take that long. And you get to Maine and it's like, oh, okay, this is, this is very much of a surprise, right?
- [50:54]
Howard Beck
But it's gorgeous. It's awesome. Very nice. I recommend it. It's worth the haul for show.
- [50:59]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, what was the. What was. Okay, go ahead.
- [51:03]
Cliff Augustine
Dark horses.
- [51:04]
Howard Beck
The dark horses, like, I, I took this to mean like, who do we think might actually pull a first round upset from the bottom part of the bracket? And I don't count fifth seeds as bottom part of the bracket because the four or five is usually negligible.
- [51:17]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I think so. I like the Suns, but they're not, they're getting, they're getting washed by the spurs, bro. If they get into that seven seed, doesn't matter how good they've been over the last. The spurs look awesome. Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't think there's really any dark horses in the Western Conference. Right. Like, I guess the Rockets is a six seat.
- [51:39]
Howard Beck
I got one in the West.
- [51:42]
Logan Murdoch
Who's that?
- [51:44]
Howard Beck
I hate to say it. Won't get fooled again, but the fucking Clippers, dude. Since they started 6 and 21. Just. All right, just chill the fuck out, Logan. Since they started 6 and 21, they are 33 and 15. That's a long ass sample size. That's tied for fourth in the NBA in that span. That's a 56 win pace. They're third in offense in that span, 13th in defense, seventh in that rating. Kawhi's playing at an MVP level, averaging 28 and 6, 57% effective field goal percentage. Darius Garland's been awesome lately for them and yeah, they made a trade in the midst of that 33 and 15 stretch but like since the Harden deal for, For Garland, they're 16 and nine. That's tied for the seventh best record. That's still about pretty damn robust. Fifth best offense in that time. Ninth net rating. The Clippers are good. The Clippers are dangerous. The Clippers are built around when healthy and he is one of the best two way players. One of the best players period in the NBA. I'm not predicting an upset, but if I'm picking like a dark horse that scares me, it's probably the Clippers. Although in the East I think Charlotte and Philly are worth discussing.
- [52:55]
Logan Murdoch
There you go. Well, I, I'm sorry man. I, there's no way in hell that I see the Clippers as good as they've been. But go up and beat the Thunder if they get that eighth seed, maybe if that. But like you can maybe convince me on the Spurs, I guess. But I'm not taking that again. I'm not gonna.
- [53:11]
Howard Beck
Right.
- [53:11]
Logan Murdoch
I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that again, man. I, I'm not, I'm not, you're not
- [53:15]
Raja Bell
picking that, you're not any of them. But I feel what you're saying, Howard. Like I, I, I feel what you're saying like if you threat level would be higher with them than other teams like still not picking them necessarily to accomplish it. But like you could, yeah, I could
- [53:26]
Howard Beck
see it if the, the, if the Clippers had gotten to six and we had like the Lakers Clippers first round that would be really interesting because they, they, I think the Clippers could beat the Lakers. Like do I think they're going to beat the Spurs?
- [53:36]
Logan Murdoch
No.
- [53:36]
Howard Beck
Or the Thunder? No. But like especially against the spurs who have never been in the playoffs. Yeah. It's not a, it's not, it's not insane. I, I just, if there's a team that scares me in the lower half,
- [53:48]
Logan Murdoch
I feel like ever since me and Raja and we brought you along, we've been doing this podcast. We, the Clippers have come up around this time of year. I feel like every year of like watch out for the Clippers and then we look up.
- [54:00]
Raja Bell
But they've been in. But they've been, I mean they might not have gotten it done, but they have pushed some people to the limit now.
- [54:07]
Logan Murdoch
They pushed, they pushed Denver to the limit last year.
- [54:10]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [54:10]
Raja Bell
Like they're. I mean, I. I guess that's where I feel. Howard. Right. Like I might not pick them, but don't fuck around with them because they could.
- [54:19]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. The Sixers are interesting too, because, you know, they're getting PG back and he's been playing really well. They're. They're kind of becoming whole at just the right time. They'll play the Celtics, who are also trying to come whole become whole at the right time with Tatum, who has looked awesome. But they have a lot of question marks. I could see that. The magic. Ugh, God. Let's just free the magic. Please. Let's just. Let's. Let's not. Let's not. It's gonna be fun. What's the next question? Nope. There you go.
- [54:55]
Howard Beck
We should at least give the Hornets some. Some credit in this discussion too, by the way.
- [54:59]
Logan Murdoch
We talk about them every other pod. We've given them their flowers. How many times have we.
- [55:04]
Howard Beck
Right. I'm just saying, teams that are dangerous in the bottom half of the bracket. I think. I think Charlotte is going to make team. Whoever they face is going to have to work. By the way, Philly could still get to six. They could get out of the play and get to six again, in which case they might be facing the Knicks in the first round, which. That would be a hell of a show.
- [55:21]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, that'd be fun, Cliff. Going to some of them games for show. Next question.
- [55:25]
Cliff Augustine
The next question.
- [55:25]
Logan Murdoch
I see it in Roger's eyes.
- [55:27]
Cliff Augustine
Not if the Knicks fans run up them ticket prices. All right, next question is from mailbag from London. Hey, guys. Kevin from London here. Hawks fan. And your recent bit on Cam Thomas sparked a question. A different situation. But there seems to be a massive disconnect between the Hawks fans and Quinn Snyder right now on Zach Ricachet. His role continues to diminish and it doesn't feel like the current coaching staff is giving him the room to develop. Generally, the fans are quite high on him and there have been some incredibly positive stretches where he can clearly create his own shot at any given time. So simple question. Is anything you could share on the situation? Is it one where the coaches are seeing things that we don't? Or is it a case of a coach and team prioritizing winning now and losing sight of its development? Cheers.
- [56:09]
Logan Murdoch
Go ahead, Howard. You got this. Pass you the ball.
- [56:11]
Howard Beck
I mean, no. No specific intel on this one, but to like the. The. The listener noted it. Did the coaches see something? Yeah, the coaches always see something that we don't like.
- [56:21]
Logan Murdoch
No, the fans. The fans always see something that we don't.
- [56:24]
Howard Beck
Well, the fans. Sometimes the fans sees things, but the coaches behind the scenes are seeing a lot of things that influence a guy's playing time, his role in the rotation, how much patience they have or how much latitude they give them. I think the problem with Riza Shay is that our perceptions of him, and I think this applies to Hawks fans who are. Who are in this category, being concerned. He was the number one pick, but he was the number one pick almost like by default in a weak draft when no one was sure who the number one pick should be. If he had been taken. He's a project player and if he had been taken at like 10 or 15 or somewhere, I don't think the anxiety about him would be as high. He turns 21 next week. He's still really young. He's still developing, but he's gotten a lot of burn. It's not like they haven't put time and investment in him to develop him. He played 75 games his rookie season, 73 of those as a starter, and average 25 minutes a game. This season, he's played 62 games, including 45 starts, and has averaged 23 minutes a game. Like, yeah, they've. They've kind of, you know, moved away from him now. But like, they have other guys who are popping. They do want to win. They've had a great last month or so, and at some point your. Your priority is winning. I don't think that they have not tried to develop him along the way, though. Like, the minutes in the games are there. So I, I think maybe he just needs more time and. We'll see.
- [57:42]
Logan Murdoch
Got one more that we can answer.
- [57:44]
Cliff Augustine
Yep, this is one more. This is Eli Lewis making the Knicks contender case. As a Knicks fan myself, I feel like the Knicks are written off as true Finals contenders. The Knicks beat the Celtics last year with Tatum, and now even though the Celtics have a better supporting cast with shooters, the Knicks still have the playoff lock in factor. And by the way, f the Pacers thoughts.
- [58:04]
Logan Murdoch
Respect. Respect. I think. I think the Knicks have a better chance than. I think they have a better chance than people think. I mean, I think that they. Especially with Vuch being out and is he coming back soon? I think he's out for like a. An extended period of time, like four to six weeks or something like that. Right. I don't know when his return date is, but they have a lot of questions in that front court. The Celtics do. And I know that we're in the euphoric stage of, you know, Tatum coming back and playing really well. But by and large, this is a team. This, this is a similar core that we saw last year. And in fact, they actually got. The Celtics got rid of some players that were good for them last year when they did play the Knicks, and the Knicks played them strong and were on track to beat the Celtics before Tatum got hurt anyway. So, like, I think that there, there should be a lot more. So it's good. A, a, it's not really a great. It doesn't seem on paper to be a great matchup for the Celtics right here. And so I would give the Knicks more of a chance than I think the consensus would.
- [59:03]
Raja Bell
I'm not familiar with all the disrespect that they're getting as far as not being able to get to the Finals, but like, I'm, I'm, I'm certainly not. I, I think they got a. I think that that Eastern Conference is going to be a dog fight, like that thing's going to be. As much as we say the Western Conference is the more stacked of the two, like that Eastern Conference because of kind of the parody there at the top. And anybody can knock anybody. It's going to be an absolute dogfight. And when you get into those dogfights in NBA series or any sport, when you have a series, there are a lot of things that have to go well for you as a franchise to come out on top of that. People playing well, the avoidance of injuries, any number of things. You get a break here or there. And I don't see a clear cut favorite in the Eastern Conference. I think it's a dog fight any way around it. So I definitely think the Knicks could wind up being the team that comes out on top in the Eastern Conference, provided they catch some of those breaks.
- [59:56]
Howard Beck
I mean, most people I've talked to and I think, and Zach and I talked about this on his live show a couple weeks ago, I think, you know, the consensus was like, the Knicks can come out of the East. Are they the favorites to come out of these? No. To Roger's point, I don't know that there is a clear cut favorite. At one point, you could have argued for the Pistons based on the strength of their record and before Cade went down and then when the Celtics got whole and Tatum came back and the season they've had, I, A lot of people have gravitated toward them. I don't look at the odds, so I don't know what the odds Makers are saying about this but like it's a true four way race. I put Cleveland in there. I know people will write them off because they don't believe in Harden in the place playoffs or in the Cavs in general. In the playoffs I think it's a true four team race. I think the doubts about the Knicks of late. You got Carl Anthony Towns on national TV the other day pre game when they were on Peacock saying I'm still trying to figure out my role in Mike Brown's system. Like that's not a great sign at the end of March. And then he went out and had a really kind of blood game in which one of the highlights of the broadcast was when they showed pregame Vince Carter and TMAC trying to like talk, you know, like coach him and talk to him about like how much more aggressive he's got to be or assert himself and all this. Like those don't. So there, there are Towns concerns, there's the fact that he just lost consecutive games to Charlotte and Oklahoma. They had the back to back losses to the two LA teams at the tail end of that road trip a couple weeks ago and I don't have it in front of me but like their, their record against good teams against top tier teams is not good. And so I think there's just even look, I got a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of Knicks friends. There's anxiety in the fan base for a reason. They're all hopeful, they all believe they can make the finals but they're all had that same kind of anxiety of like don't know if I really trust Mikhail Bridges. Don't know if I trust Karl Anthony Towns. Just don't know that I trust this group as a whole. And like it's, it's, there's just a lot of anxiety. But yeah, they can make the finals. It could happen. Like there's, there is no clear cut favorite for sure.
- [61:54]
Logan Murdoch
All right, well we're the clear cut favorite of this podcast feed so I don't know. That's all I had for you guys. It's been another edition of Real Ones. Make sure you tap in every week. Real ones mailbag@gmail.com realm back@gmail.com realonesmail back@gmail.com. i am Logan Murdoch. That is Howard Beck, that is Raja Bell. That is Cliff Augustine, that is Valenciaga on the video. We will see you guys on Friday. Ah, all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem called 1-800- gambler or 1-800- my resale said. Call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatinconnecticut or visit mdg.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.
- [63:06]
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