Logan Murdoch (3:27)

When.

Howard Beck (3:28)

Like when Luca got traded, I can think that maybe is an emergency. Trey, urgency podcast. There's an urgency. It's 11:15 at night on the east coast, and we're doing this. It's urgent. It's big.

Logan Murdoch (3:38)

It's not that big.

Howard Beck (3:38)

It's not emerging.

Logan Murdoch (3:39)

I would just say this. I would just say this for the audience in a moment of transparency. We had the option to do this pod right now or in the morning. And me and Howard, being the washed individuals we are, we're just like, let's just get it over with. We're ready to go.

Howard Beck (3:53)

Let's go.

Logan Murdoch (3:54)

Okay. No, let's go.

Howard Beck (3:55)

It's just not an emergency.

Logan Murdoch (3:56)

It's not fair enough.

Howard Beck (3:57)

It's our urgency pod. So let's be very clear about how this really unfolded, because when these things happen, sometimes there's a lot of PR spin applied, and I'll leave it at that. But the Hawks made it pretty clear that they were ready to move on from Trey Young as long ago as last summer, when they did not offer him an extension, that team was already shifting hard toward Jalen Johnson because Jalen Johnson was having a breakout year before some injuries got involved, and they've got a nice young core. And then they brought in Ail Alexander Walker and Dyson Daniels blossomed. The Hawks were creating a new identity and one with a lot more of a defensive edge to it. Before this season began and at a time when they had decided, you know what? We're not sure about our future with Trey Young, and, sorry, Trey, we're not offering you an extension. The writing at that moment, Logan was on the wall, and the whole league could see it. So flash forward to today. Wednesday. Today might be yesterday by the time people are listening to this, but we've got a trade that happens because the Hawks had decided they were ready to move on. And in terms of destination, it's the Wizards, because the Wizards are from everything that I've been able to. To. To ferret out over the last couple of days and including in the last hour or so since this trade happened, there were no other bidders, Logan. There were no other suitors. Did teams poke around? Did they ask? Were they curious? Sure. But in the end, there was only one team that wanted to trade for Trey Young right now, and it was Washington. So when this is being framed as Trey Young picked the Wizards, like, nobody picks the Wizards. I'm sorry, that's just not a thing that really happens in this league. And they're a team that's been tanking the last couple of years. And I, and I use that term, you know, with, with, with intent and respect because it's the right kind of tank. It was a team that had just was going nowhere, decided it was time to blow it up, pawn off Bradley Beal on the foolish Phoenix Suns and start the teardown, start accruing draft picks and cap room and flexibility and young players. That's the right way to rebuild. So to the other part of your question about, like, what are all these teams doing with Atlanta? It's very clear they were ready to move on from Trey Young as the face of their team and ready to place all that responsibility fully, squarely, as it already was with Jaylen Johnson and a young crew around him and to get out from under the 46 million of Entre's deal. So the Hawks part of this is very, very clear in terms of their agenda. They've got a new identity. The Wizards part of this is the part that's puzzling me and we'll try to figure it out over the course of this show. But, you know, they're, they're, they're still in the middle of a rebuild, slash tank or whatever, trading for an all star caliber player like Trey Young normally would ruin the tank, but considering he's been a defensive liability and not a guy who could, could actually power his team to the playoffs the last couple of years, maybe it doesn't ruin the tank. But worth noting, as I think I noted earlier in the week when we, when we did the show, the Wizards have owed the Knicks a pick. And it's top, I think eight protected. And so they, like, they still need to be bad enough to keep that pick. And, and you know, look, the lottery will determine where it will ultimately falls, but you want to try to stay in that, you know, bottom six to eight of the league to try to keep the pick when the lottery happens. Otherwise it goes to the Knicks. And so, like, it is a weird time, if this were being framed as it's time for us to turn the Corner. It's a weird player to pick and, and weird timing to do it.

Logan Murdoch (7:34)

Yeah. I mean, I want to get to the propaganda of it all, but before we do that, I want to respond to your point on that alone, because it feels like trading for Trey Young is. If you're the Wizards, you're kind of trading for a guy and you're kind of trading for a guy that you're kind of betting against, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like, you're betting on him to, to, to score a lot of points and lose a lot of games. Right. And that is a weird thing to do. Right. When you already had an expired in C.J. mcCollum. Right. And will Dawkins and, and Michael Winger. You know, I don't really know them that, that well. I, I just know what I've seen and what I've kind of gathered with. They kind of present themselves like this is the way to do things in our way is the right way. And I think that so far, but pre trade, I think they've done everything right under the circumstances. Right. This is kind of weird because when we were talking in the last pod, we were saying, okay, maybe they can get a couple of picks out of Atlanta. Maybe that's the working theory here that, you know, okay, we'll take on your bad Trey Young contract, but then just give us a sweetener on the back end. And now you traded C.J. mcCollum, who was on an expiring deal, and then traded him for Trey Young, who most definitely is going to. I would say he's going to re up on his player option because why wouldn't he? Like, I don't, I don't see. Based on. Unless you're talk. Unless the Wizards are like, we don't want to get to the salary floor. We got to spend this money somewhere. Might as well just give an extension to Trey Young. Right? Right. But Trey also wants to win Championships. He's 27 years old. He has a lot of his career left. It's. The more you think about it, it's like, Wizards, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Because worst case scenario, you're betting against your, your player, Trey Young. And. Or the worst case scenario is he's your. He gets you to 500. Trey Young plays just well enough to get you to 500, which is what he's done perpetually for most of his Hawks career. So he, that's the worst case scenario. Then you, you know, you lose on your protected pick fix the best case Scenario is you're betting against your player and he has high scoring games, he picks up his player options. But you guys are still tanking and you guys only win 15 games a year. But I don't see that happening with Trey Young.

Howard Beck (10:03)

Yeah, he's been hurt a lot this season, and so maybe they're counting on maybe just not playing him. Like, it's not that hard in this league for a guy to be like rehabbing something. You just say, you know, like, I mean, that would be a weird move, right, to make a what looks like a blockbuster.

Logan Murdoch (10:17)

It would be a weird move because what you want to do at this stage as the Washington Wizards is you want to draft well and you want to show the rest of the league that you treat your guys that are established well.

Howard Beck (10:29)

Excellent point.

Logan Murdoch (10:30)

Thank you. And if you treat Trae Young like shit, it doesn't matter how you feel about him. Other stars of, of the same, you know, ilk as Trae Young and other stars in general are going to see that and be like, I don't want to go there. So that's, that's. They. They kind of painted themselves in a corner by doing this.

Howard Beck (10:51)

Yeah, I, I think they are. And I think that, you know, again, so just to be clear, they owe the Knicks a first round pick. It is protected one through eight. They are currently slotted fourth at 10 and 26 with Brooklyn, Utah, Charlotte and the Clippers behind them. So if you do start winning and look, the Clippers are playing better of late. They lost tonight in New York. They're playing better of late. Like, but, you know, Dallas, maybe we'll get to Dallas in a minute related to this, but you know, there's other teams hovering there. You don't want to fall behind all these teams and then give up a potential pick as high as ninth to the Knicks. You're still in a rebuild. You still have mostly young players that are still rounding into form. Alex Sar and Koulibaly and these guys like you need to, you need that one more high level prospect.

Logan Murdoch (11:42)

But Howard, we always talk about pushing the button at the right time, pushing the buddy on a established star like a Trey Young. Like they did it way too early. You do that, like if you do that when you get to the playoffs or something like that. Which is why this is just so confounding to me.

Howard Beck (12:02)

It is confounding. I've been asking around tonight and I don't have a clear vision of it yet. I'm curious to see what are the Wizards actually going to Offer Trey Young the extension that he didn't get from Atlanta. Are they going to just do like whenever they make this official and hold a press conference? I think one of the first questions you would ask Michael Winger and, and Will Dawkins and this is a very like, this is a savvy front office and they have done, I think mostly or almost entirely this is why again.

Logan Murdoch (12:29)

This move is confounding because they've done everything right up until this point and.

Howard Beck (12:32)

And, and also because like, look, Michael Winger came from the Clippers where he was a key part of that front office during their rebuild and their ultimate landing of Paul George Leonard. Say whatever you want about all that, but that was a very successful rebuild for a franchise that had mostly been not so smart in the way it had operated for many, many years. And Will Dawkins came from the Oklahoma City Thunder, probably the smartest franchise in the NBA. And Winger I think had Thunder ties too. So the, these are guys who came up under Sam Presti who, you know, who have done a lot of, you know, very, made a lot of savvy moves. Bobby Marks actually summed up how they got here in a tweet tonight. He says, interesting way to look at this. They turned Bradley Beal into Chris Paul, Chris Paul into Jordan Pool, Jordan Poole into C.J. mcCollum and then C.J. mcCollum into Trey Young. So they went from Bradley Beal to Trey Young, Bradley Beal who was broken down and vastly, vastly overpaid to a Chris Paul who was semi retired to Jordan Poole who's Jordan Pool to CJ McCollum. Good player to Trey Young. But whatever you may think of Trey Young, they, they, they got that line of improvement. But hold on. And then along the way, this is the important part. Four years of pick swaps, six second round picks and $16 million saved over the next two years. So that's a lot of, that's good work in the, in the course of, of this series of moves. It's great for your spreadsheet, Bobby's tweet.

Logan Murdoch (13:56)

It's great for your spreadsheet, but that's.

Howard Beck (13:57)

Well, winning on the spreadsheet is, is part of the game in the NBA today, unfortunately.

Logan Murdoch (14:03)

Yeah, it keeps you, you know, keep the, the rebuild alive. That's how, that's. Rebuilds are how GMs keep their jobs. But the second point on that is, the second point on that is the person that they, they basically traded CJ McCollum for an extra more expensive gear of Trey Young when they could have been. Yes, that's my. That's my critique of the deal, if you're gonna.

Howard Beck (14:25)

Right, because C.J. was expiring.

Logan Murdoch (14:27)

Right. And now you're gonna probably pay, what, something like $50 million for an extra one for Trey Young that you weren't accounting for when you could have books.

Howard Beck (14:35)

So, see, so Trey's got the player option for next season at, like, 49 million. So you either extend him and you could rip that up, the 49 million and say, look, we. We'll give you an extension for, like, you know, four years and fill in the blank, whatever it is, less than the max. If they can get him to a. A deal that's less than the max and bring that 49 or even the 46 they're paying him now, bring that down, but give him more guaranteed money over more years. If he's willing to do that, then that's a great value play for them. Right. Like for all of his warts. No, Cat, the cap matters. Cap room matters, and all those picks and pick swaps that I mentioned matter. So as you're rebuilding, you want as much flexibility as possible. Maybe you don't want, really, Trey Young at 46 to 50 million, but maybe you could, you know, if you. If he's at 35 million over multiple years and as the cap is going up and it gives you more flexibility to add and you can stars around him.

Logan Murdoch (15:30)

But I don't think. Or have the. Yeah, exactly. That's what I think they. What they would do. I think that they do. The. The play here now is like, hopefully he does. He declines his deal, gets it below what he thinks is there maybe 30. $30 million or something in that range. And they. He looks. That contract looks way more. Excuse me. Excuse me. That contract looks way more enticing to a potential trade partner than, you know, him making 50 million, which I don't think he's gonna make.

Howard Beck (16:00)

Yeah.

Logan Murdoch (16:00)

At least in the next. But no, there's.

Howard Beck (16:03)

Look, there's just as the writing should be on the wall for trade, this should be very clear. There were no other teams bidding for his services at the moment. And granted, there are cap complications and other reasons why that might be, but the fact is there wasn't exactly a stampede to get him, and he should take that as an indication that when the summer comes, if he hasn't signed an extension yet, and he. And he thinks, oh, I'm going to opt out, and if the Wizards don't want to give me the max, somebody else will. They're not that Max deal is not going to be there this summer for Trey Young, I guarantee you that much. So somewhere in all of this, he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that his value is down. He, he needs to try to build it back up. Whether that's picking up his option and then hoping for the best in the following summer or taking what to him will feel like a below market extension or whatever it may be. But Trey Young is not going to getting, be getting another Max deal this summer.

Logan Murdoch (16:59)

I'm really curious to see how he, he responds to all of this. Right. Because we're going to talk after I say this, we're going to talk about the propaganda in a moment, which is what we have talked about over text and we'll get to that in a second. But the other thing is like, I don't know what the play here is for Trey Young necessarily, right. Does he just become, does he become a tier above what he is right now? And he just says, effort I'm gonna make, I'm gonna single handedly make the Wizards a contender. Right. I'm talking about his mindset. I'm not talking about what we think is or is not going to happen. But like, does he say, I'm gonna make it work here in Washington, I'm gonna be a legend in D.C. or does he, does he play enough to get traded somewhere? Like essentially like how Jordan Poole situation was in Washington. Right. Like basically make this an audition for the all the other teams to try to win a title. Right. And I think that's going to be really tough for him because the biggest thing that, you know, better or worse that Trae Young has going for him is his ego. And he does like, that works really well when, you know, he's playing in a garden and he's winning playoff series. But it doesn't work very well when he's, you know, playing for, you know, the coaches and, you know, some teammates who may or may not like him. But he has a lot that he has to, to deal with at this point. And it's just weird. This is what's going to transition into. It's weird that we got back channels that he preferred to go to Washington. Right. We both are skeptical about this and you would know, you talked about this at the time, top of the show. I'll say, well, I'm skeptical about this and I can't wait to hear what you, what you're about to unload. But I'm skeptical on it because it, whether it's Intentional or not. And I kind of think I know why this leaked. It had to be somebody from his camp. But it's weird because on the one hand, it gives the. The Washington and D.C. be like, yeah, somebody wants to come play with us. That's cool. But it makes it seem like he wants to be the man and not necessarily be contending anywhere. That's what. At least what. What it looks like when you say that, oh, I want to go to Washington. I want to go to this place. That's a very explicit rebuild. And that's what. That's why I'm skeptical. Why are you skeptical of the. He wants to be here. This is his preferred destination.

Howard Beck (19:32)

Because everybody in the league understood how this unfolded. It unfolded with the Hawks saying, we're not extending you. Jalen Johnson taking the controls of the team, Trae Young being out when they were playing at their best and their record being worse with him in the lineup. Like, it's very, very clear to everybody in the NBA that the Hawks wanted to move on from Trey and not vice versa. Now, all the stuff about their working together, it's a collaboration, and. And they've agreed to move on from each other.

Logan Murdoch (20:02)

Cool.

Howard Beck (20:03)

That's fine. That may well be true in the. In the most general outline, but the Hawks got there first. Let's be clear. The Hawks concluded this, and then at some point, Trey Young and his camp went, oh, yeah, all right, cool. Yeah, we'd rather be somewhere where Trey can be the. The focal point again, anyway. And this is clearly Jaylen Johnson's team, so at some point. Yeah, at some point, it does become mutual.

Logan Murdoch (20:24)

Sure.

Howard Beck (20:26)

But at that stage, it's now. Where are you sending him? I. I texted this to you earlier. Trey Young, I. It. It strains all logic, reason, and everything we know about the NBA.

Logan Murdoch (20:38)

It.

Howard Beck (20:38)

And everything we know about this situation, that Trey Young woke up one morning and said, you know what? I think I want to be traded to the Washington Wizards.

Logan Murdoch (20:46)

Hey, I'm not gonna lie, though.

Howard Beck (20:47)

No, I'm sorry. I don't buy that.

Logan Murdoch (20:50)

I'm not gonna lie, though. If you were just saying, like, yo, I got a work transfer to D.C. i'm not mad at it. You know, I like D.C. i love you're. You're. Okay, okay, okay. New Yorker. Calm down. Okay? It's.

Howard Beck (21:02)

What. It's a good town. It's a legit good town. There's good restaurants. There's beautiful.

Logan Murdoch (21:07)

It's beautiful. It's one of my.

Howard Beck (21:08)

I don't like some of its current residents, but that's a whole other story.

Logan Murdoch (21:12)

Anywho, to your point though, like, I don't get it. I just don't. I don't get why he would just outwardly choose this. Finish your point. I apologize. I was doing the thing that I knew I cut you off.

Howard Beck (21:24)

Not at all. No. I do think at a certain point Trey Young recognized that the Hawks were making what is probably a logical move for them and maybe even for him. Things had shifted, but in terms of then deciding where you're going to go normally, what happens with the re with like the top shelf superstars. We know how this goes usually. Oh, Player X has submitted a list of three or four team names to, to the team, his current team, to say these are my preferred destinations and whatever. And you can dissuade other suitors by saying I won't sign an extension. All that kind of stuff. That's not what this was. He had no leverage. The Hawks for that matter, had very little leverage. If the Hawks, here's the other, the other tell in all this. If the Hawks had other suitors, if there were a variety of places they could have sent him and Trey just picked Washington. If there were other suitors, they would have gotten some draft capital out of this. Trey Young is a multi. Trey is a multiple time all star and one of the an incredible scorer and one of the top assist guys every year in the league. You wouldn't just be getting C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kispert. You'd also be getting at least a handful of second round picks. They're getting no picks whatsoever and that is because they had nowhere to play the Wizards off of because there were no other bidders.

Logan Murdoch (22:41)

Or this trade wouldn't have happened on January 7. It would have happened in February. If there was a. Yeah, you would have waited. You would have waited.

Howard Beck (22:49)

You would have been like where's the urgency?

Logan Murdoch (22:52)

Right.

Howard Beck (22:52)

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Logan Murdoch (23:10)

Okay. All right. Let's talk about Trey in Atlanta really quickly because I think that's another point in all this. Right? Let's talk about Trey's career. And it's over now in Atlanta, which is a weird thing to consider because you know, Atlanta has its stars, right? And if you're a star in Atlanta, it's a very special thing to be. You know, I think About Vic, I think about Nick, I think about Joe Johnson and how much they. Like, we could say what we want about those. Those teams in the mid 2000s is Atlanta Hawks, but they are beloved in that. In that region. Right. But Trey was, Was. Was that ilk, right? He was kind of on the trajectory of being that Nick type figure in Atlanta. You know, he had the Quavo song, a lot of music from the Migos. That name dropped him, which I know you don't know, but, like, he had. He had that kind of cultural cachet there, right. And now that's gone. Now, like what. What do you think that his legacy ultimately is going to be in Atlanta? It's weird that he's getting traded to Washington because I feel like it's going to be similar to how John Wall's legacy is in Washington. Right. Didn't win a lot of games, but he's beloved. He didn't win a lot. Yeah, but his beloved. What do you think about Trae Young's legacy in Atlanta and what it's going to be long term?

Howard Beck (24:34)

It's a complicated legacy, to say the least. Logan. Because first off, lest we ever forget, and Hawks fans will not and no one will, they got Trey because they traded the draft rights to Luka Doncic for Trey Young and a pick that became Cam Reddish. Not the finest hour in Hawk's front office history. That front office is now gone. I think there are at least two front offices later, maybe three. It's like there's that there's the Hawks fans who might be saying, we could have had Luca and maybe RGM wouldn't have traded him to the Lakers for a sack of beans. But he did put them back on the map eventually. He did get them to that conference finals in 2021, unfortunately, and this part is on the franchise, I will say ownership in the front office, and I think specifically ownership. When they got to the conference finals, they thought, boom, good, we're here, We've broken through. And they expected that was going to be the new floor for them, and it was not. They broke through. I don't want to say it was like a fluke, but like some things went their way. They were a really young team, they were ahead of schedule. But when you start expecting that that is now where you are for the foreseeable future. You start making dumb moves and you start making rash moves and you start firing people.

Logan Murdoch (25:52)

When you look back on that roster, though, Howard, when you look back on that roster, I got to give a lot of credit to Trey for getting that roster to the conference finals. It didn't really age well. You know, John Collins was like the number two option on that team, and they got to the conference finals like it was a. Yeah, it was, it was. It was a wonky roster.

Howard Beck (26:10)

John Collins, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Clinton.

Logan Murdoch (26:14)

That was killing the playoffs.

Howard Beck (26:16)

Kevin Herder. Yeah, like Lou Will was still around then. Like it was an accomplishment. Like it was a true accomplishment. And Trey deserves credit for that. And he had some amazing moments at the Garden, and he became a Garden villain and all of that. And I think that's part of what makes him beloved in Atlanta. But they follow that up with a first round loss and the next year another first round loss, and then the last two years missing the playoffs in that time too. He's gone from Lloyd Pierce as his head coach to Nate McMillan as his head coach to eventually Quinn Snider. Like that is something too, where when you're the franchise star and a point guard who's got the ball in your hands all the time and your relationship with the coach matters, th. Those things are indicators too. And then there's just the fact that as we discussed earlier in the week, he's a defensive liability to an extreme degree, and that makes it hard to build a winner around him. So his legacy is put them back on the map. Gave them some really fun moments, some nice moments. He's a really fun player to watch and to root for. But ultimately, you know, it's about winning and winning in the postseason and they couldn't do it consistently. And in the last couple of years, they couldn't even make it to the postseason. So I'm. I'm going to guess that. I mean, I don't want to put words in Hawks fans mouths, but they got to be much happier with this iteration of the team now built around Jalen Johnson.

Logan Murdoch (27:39)

Yeah, I mean, it just gives them so much flexibility. So on a rookie deal, like, they can still just build around him. That's. Is it going to be. I mean, Atlanta's going to be very intriguing to watch. They already were intriguing to watch in spurts during this season. Right. Like, I, I'm, I'm very. What are, what are you most excited about to. To watch with the Atlanta Hawks this season? Because they're playing with no expectations, which honestly makes it kind of fun.

Howard Beck (28:02)

They've built this really fun, interchangeable, at least offensively, the switchable lineup. Right. With a lot of long guys who can defend. Right. Daniels, Nikhil Alexander, Walker, Jaylen Johnson, Okong Wu. Are they really adding Kispert into that or is he. It was suggested to me tonight that they'll try to flip Kispert for some draft capital which they would then use in some other deal. There is already a report from Sham Shrania tonight about the Hawks now turning their attention to trying to pry loose Anthony Davis. Now that is another connection that has been reported in various places for, you know, days, if not weeks already. Could they get some picks for Kispert, combine that with some whatever combination because like you're going to need contracts and.

Logan Murdoch (28:50)

That'S not the, that's not the play. D'oh, bro. That is Anthony Davis. If you're, if you're in the Hawks, it's just not the play. Like you need to, I think at this stage of what you are, you just need to make it like you need to make a decision to just be bad and develop. Right? Like basically they need to do with what Dallas is trying to do by getting Anthony Davis off their hands.

Howard Beck (29:12)

The Hawks are in great position though here, Logan, and they could, like, I'm not, I haven't thought this through fully and I'm not sure whether I would, I'm not sure whether I would support the move for Anthony Davis or not. If you're looking at this, as you know, the east is wide open. We keep having these discussions and you think there's an opportunity to make a splash immediately, maybe Anthony Davis now, you know, shores up that defense even further if you can keep him healthy. Like, dude, Anthony Davis has played really well lately. But like you, you have to keep him on the court and it is a short term ish play given his age and injury history. You don't know how much longer you'll have him. But I can make the argument that, look, in the NBA these days, the time is always now because windows open and shut so damn fast. But never forget this piece. The, the Hawks, yes, to your point. They're young and they're still developing and they could just let that ride. And they do have this golden ticket of the Pelicans pick or, or the Bucks if something goes really awry. Either one. But probably the Pelicans pick a likely high lottery pick in June. So they can keep adding, that's what I'm saying. And they can do that whether they've got Anthony Davis or not. I, I, you know, the combination of contracts it would take to get Anthony Davis is the problem here because then you're giving, you're giving up players in depth, right?

Logan Murdoch (30:29)

You're giving up players in Depth. And like, it's, it's just if you get Anthony Davis, at least his expectation is to win, right? Like, he's kind of in the same boat. He's. Honestly, he's in a different boat to Trey Young is. Because he's, He's. I think, what is he, six years older than Trey Young? So I. He's 33. So I. Or turning 33. I think that, like, if you go for, for Anthony Davis, you are explicitly telling yourself, or at least telling him, you want to compete and he's just going to be in another situation that he was in Dallas, and you want to see what Jalen can do as a number one, or you want to just see what he can do when it's 100% his team, and you want to see how they continue to build at this point way, I, I wouldn't do it. I'm. I would consider for Giannis, but Anthony Davis, at this stage, I wouldn't. I wouldn't touch him.

Howard Beck (31:24)

I'm glad you brought up Giannis, because the biggest reason not to go for Anthony Davis is that whatever you're giving up to get him might take you out of the eventual Giannis sweepstakes. And again, like, I don't expect Giannis to be moved before the trade deadline.

Logan Murdoch (31:37)

Exactly.

Howard Beck (31:37)

It's not, it's not impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely. And if Giannis makes it to the, to the, the spring and summer, still with the Bucks, you know, everybody in the league thinks that that's, that's going to be the trigger point. Like, it's coming this summer. If he doesn't get traded by the deadline, it's coming this summer. And if that's the case, you want to have all the possible ammunition to get him. You want all the picks, all the contracts. And if you've spent some of that to go get Anthony Davis, I, you may have just taken yourself out of it. And so I, I think it's too soon.

Logan Murdoch (32:13)

If Giannis wants to get traded in the summertime, which is honestly what is going to happen for a trade of that magnitude, then if you're Atlanta Hawks, it just buys you time to just see where your roster is. Right. Like, it just. Yeah, it, it can't hurt. And then you get your draft pick. Because I, I'd imagine a Giannis trade, if there's going to happen in the draft, which. I don't know. I don't know about that. Maybe, or it's going to happen late in the summer. Right. Either way, you're going to see what you're going to do with that pick and a loaded draft. I, I, I honestly just say just the way the apron is right now and the way that the NBA is incentivizing drafting your own players, getting them young and then paying them that way, the Hawks are in prime position to do that. This guy be patient.

Howard Beck (32:58)

Yeah, I would prefer that this is not a patient league, Logan, as we know. But, but I would prefer the teams.

Logan Murdoch (33:04)

That are successful, the Oklahoma City Thunder. The teams that are most success successful and flexible are the Oklahoma City Thunder, San Antonio spurs that now they got generational talent, but they did it by being patient.

Howard Beck (33:16)

Yeah. And that's the model and, and, and the Hawks. Part of what's made the last couple of years I think impressive and just in terms of a roster building, a process is that they've picked their spots. Right. Like they, they went out and got Nikhil Alexander Walker and they made the trade for Dyson Daniels. Like they've made smart moves at the margins. And I'm not saying those are marginal players. Those are really important players. But these aren't swing for the fences moves. These aren't all in superstar moves. I wrote about all in trades a few weeks back and about how they often go wrong. And an Anthony Davis trade, look, you're going to get them for a lot less than what you would have expected a few years ago given Anthony Davis's resume. He's another distress for all, for all.

Logan Murdoch (34:03)

His worth is pretty, is on a pretty inflated contract for you know what.

Howard Beck (34:07)

He'S right now he's a distressed asset because for all of his talent and resume he's the age he is, you know, 32 now. Turning 33 in March. March. So yeah, so 33 soon with a, a massive injury history and, and a huge contract and, and extension eligible soon. So like there are, there are a lot of reasons to not go down that path. So no, it would feel like the wrong move at the wrong time to me for all kinds of reasons. But when you ask what am I intrigued by, I'm intrigued by the fact that they're being linked so strongly. Anthony Davis, I might make that move. I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying it's intriguing.

Logan Murdoch (34:45)

Yeah. What's the, what's, what's the biggest advice you would give Trey Young right now? I don't know if he would listen but like what should he be thinking about and what should he be doing right now.

Howard Beck (34:56)

For all of what's being said about him picking Washington, which again, I don't think either of us believe or anybody around the NBA probably believes, like you, you are where you are now. Like you're with a franchise that look, I, I, I think they're, they're doing the right things overall and heading in the right direction. They've got some really interesting young players who are developing. He's going in now as an established all star point guard who by virtue of his position and his resume is going to have the ball in his hands a lot. Do not make this the Trey Young show in Washington. Look around and see that these are a bunch of young guys who are still learning and like you can be a huge benefit to them because they haven't had like C.J. mcCollum's a really good veteran guard, but C.J. was never like a true conventional point guard. And he's not a guy who's going to break the defense down and, and then just kicked open guys. Trey has the ability to really lift up everybody there. This is a young cast and he could make their lives easier. He may he like the best case scenario, Logan, is that he hastens their development, he speeds it up and we get to learn more about these guys sooner. Also, one of the, the benefits of having an all star caliber player who can score and pass and do everything on his own is that when you're a player who is not at that skill level, you're having to do a lot more that he takes on that burden now. So guys can now play off of him and probably be that much more effective and efficient without having to force the issue. All that said, by the way, they've got like I was it like I'm trying to remember what the record was like they're like 7 and 5 over their last 12 or something like that. Like they got a winning record over their last 12 to 14 games coming into tonight. And so they were, they were heading in a pretty productive path. Trey can make their lives easier. So I think what I would hope for him and as I said the other day, like, guys always have a chance to rewrite, you know, their story. He could be a better defender and a better teammate. And in this case he needs to be a leader and he needs to. And I don't mean lead by dropping 30 every night. I mean lead by making life easier for these young players that are now his new teammates.

Logan Murdoch (37:02)

I mean, I think a good model for him right now is Chris Paul. I mean, and I know that I'm the model is one of the greatest Leaders of all time. Right.

Howard Beck (37:13)

And a guy who. Who got banished about a month ago.

Logan Murdoch (37:16)

Who got banished about a month ago. But like you, Chris Paul in Oklahoma.

Howard Beck (37:20)

Or Chris Paul in Phoenix.

Logan Murdoch (37:21)

Chris Paul in Phoenix. I'm talking about just, like, making the best of the situation that is. That is currently in front of you and leading the guys and somebody will poach you and then you'll get. But that would, I think, would take a huge character shift from him. Like, that's. That's the other side of it, right? Because even in his mature ways, like I referenced it earlier, like, going at it, Going at it with Patrick Beverly preseason in one of your, like, most consequential. Going into one of your most consequential years just isn't pro. Probably a great idea. But I think that, like, if he can, you know, trades and new scenery tends to bring out differences in players, right? So if he could just become a WY leader, WY veteran, take the extension, do his time. Because I don't think that he's going to be in Washington longer that long. Because if he's going to. Unless, like, he turns into this big superstar and, like, just. I don't know, it would take a very weird turn of events for him to do that. I think he either picks up his option or takes the extension, does his time there. And if he is a great leader and if he is, like, bringing people along and doing just enough, they will do right by him and they will trade him to a contender if. If that's what needs be. And so, like, I think that that's the play here. Be the WY veteran. Figure it out. Enjoy DC because DC's popping and DC will love you and they love hoops there. But then you do that, and I think it'll work out. I'm still weird. Still weird for me on the trade, because if he does everything he needs to do, then the Wizards aren't going to get what they want, which is just. Which leads into my next thing. Before we get out of here and I'll go after you. How do you give me a grade for each team and brief summary of why you give that grade.

Howard Beck (39:15)

Oh, my. This is why I never do trade grades for any podcasts.

Logan Murdoch (39:21)

An emergency podcast, because we get a little only.

Howard Beck (39:24)

Only urgency podcast. Yeah. Neither of them are getting an A on this. I'd say, like, that's pretty clear.

Logan Murdoch (39:31)

Like, it's.

Howard Beck (39:32)

This is such a weird deal from the wizard side of it that it's really hard to grade because I don't really. I'M not sure what their intent is yet. Logan for the Wizards, I'm going to say like B minus range. Like I I don't know what turning CJ McCollum and Corey Kispert into Trey Young does exactly. Again, best case scenario is what we laid out a second ago. He comes in, is a good leader and a good teammate and helps hasten the development of these young players and the Wizards. I should note this, too. My understanding of the Wizards plan here during this rebuild was that they were going to do this year and maybe one more in this rebuild slash, tank zone before they decided to press the pedal and turn the corner and go the other direction. Is the Trey move really designed to turn the corner sooner? I don't know.

Logan Murdoch (40:21)

I, I By the way, I love when teams do that when they say we're only going to take for one or two more years because it ain't that easy, bro. Like you're, well, you know, like we're going to just decide to do it. You need players and you need to get lucky for that to happen. Like, the, the, the spurs didn't just say, hey, oh, we're gonna just stop tanking. They got Victor Wimanyama.

Howard Beck (40:45)

True. Sometimes the tanking timeline depends on whether or not you got the guy yet. And if you didn't, it's like, oh, guess we'll try our lottery odds again next year. You know, maybe, maybe the balls will bounce differently or it's a better draft class or whatever. Sometimes it's just a matter of, like, the ownership where the owner says, I've got an appetite to do this for the next two years go. And then it's not there yet. All right, I'll give you guys one more year. You know, so they have two more.

Logan Murdoch (41:09)

Years before they're forced to make dumb trades to be average.

Howard Beck (41:14)

It you can have a plan and like everything else, it can get wrecked or it can get changed. It can change by, you know, something drops in your lap or whatever, or somebody loses patience. Like the Sixers bought all in on Sixers ownership bought all in on Sam Hinkey's plan until they didn't. Like, they pulled the rug out from under him. And you could say that they were right or wrong or whatever, but the fact is they had bought into a longer version of this and they got cold feet because they were getting too much backlash, too much heat. And then it was the plug on it. So what are the, what are the Wizards truly intending to do? To me, that's really murky. So I can't give them anything more than like a B minus even though they just landed a, a multiple time all star practically for free. The Hawks, it's probably the same. It's like B minus, C plus. Because you, you turned a multiple time all star into a couple of guys. Like, I love the CJ McComb.

Logan Murdoch (42:13)

Great dude.

Howard Beck (42:13)

He's leading, you know, led the players association for a while. Good veteran locker room presence. Has made a lot of big shots in his career. Much respect. Corey Kispert, you know, decent young player. But like it's not like the most.

Logan Murdoch (42:28)

I.

Howard Beck (42:29)

This may be. This is something I need to look up and somebody else will, will get to this before I do. Probably. I'm not sure I've seen less of a return for a multiple time all star without a catastrophic injury who is just entering his prime. He's 27 years old. That is a very low return and it, and it does speak to how depressed the market was for Trey Young and he should take that personally too.

Logan Murdoch (42:53)

Yeah, I think, I think I'm with you, man. I think I give them both Cs because there was also an option to do nothing.

Howard Beck (43:01)

Sure.

Logan Murdoch (43:02)

For both teams. Yeah. You know.

Howard Beck (43:04)

Yeah.

Logan Murdoch (43:04)

Because if they're t. Like say, say if Atlanta just wants to accumulate assets, like how. With how the season was going, playing Trae Young was going to help you do that. It was going to help your record. But I, I do get why, like, if you get it, I, I get what you're saying. Like I do get what you're about to say. Like if they were very clear on Trey Young, like not being good for the team, great to trade him. And I think that like also, you know, it says a lot about Trey Young, like what you said. Reputationally, I think that, that, that says a lot about who he has become and to people around the league. So you know what I'm giving, you know what? I'm actually going to be higher on the hog. I'm not going to give him a C. I'm gonna give him like a B plus. B plus.

Howard Beck (43:52)

The reason for reading themselves of the headache and the contract.

Logan Murdoch (43:55)

Right. And now they have a clear vision of what they're going to be. Sure. Right.

Howard Beck (43:59)

It's a clarifying move.

Logan Murdoch (44:00)

It's not a clarifying move for, for, for D.C. which is why I'm going to give them like a. I'm a lower on like a C minus. D because they basically put themselves in a position where they have to root against their best player. That's not good. It's not a good position to be in.

Howard Beck (44:15)

Yeah, it's going to be weird. Like these, like the, the press conference is going to be weird. I can't wait to hear how they explain all this. Or what lies do you think is.

Logan Murdoch (44:24)

Going to be in a press conference? I'm thinking like, like eight or nine.

Howard Beck (44:29)

Press conferences are made for lies. That's, they're, they're, they're propaganda fests anyway. But I'm curious to hear how they answer all the questions that we have just posed rhetorically, but which will not. Which will be more directly posed to them then. And I'm also curious to see then how the next couple of months play out because on the one hand you just acquired an all star point guard. On the other hand, you need to keep your bottom eight record to keep your top eight pick. And every time I talk about the.

Logan Murdoch (44:57)

Wizards part of it, either Gray gets lower. I think I was going to go with a deep because here's the other thing, dog. Like if you, you, you would have been all like now going from January into July, all you're going to be talking about and all every headline is going to be are they going to get Trey Young or is he going to pick up his option? Is he going to do this? Is he going to do that? Like, are you guys going to give him an extension? When you were in a position where you would have just gotten off of CJ McCollum's deal and you wouldn't even had to, like, you wouldn't have been in the news. Now all you're going to hear is like, what is Drake? What is Trey going to do? What are you going to do with this? And you're just at a catch 22. Yeah, it's a D for me. It's a D for me on the Wizards and I'll give Hawks a B plus. That's what I'm doing.

Howard Beck (45:38)

I, I guess I'm not willing to go quite as harsh, only because we still have to hear kind of the rationale. And when that rationale is provided, it may look a little bit better or it may make a little bit more sense to us kind of operating in a vacuum here.

Logan Murdoch (45:53)

What the rationale is a lie. That's a blatant lie.

Howard Beck (45:58)

Fine. We've heard plenty already.

Logan Murdoch (46:01)

Because I think, I think the rationale is going to be some sort of blatant lie. On, on somebody's side, it's either going to be a blatant lie. On the wizard side, it's going to be blatant line on trey side. But like, either way, like, I'm giving.

Howard Beck (46:11)

The benefit of the doubt I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to a front office that I think has generally been pretty smart and for them to go for a by advanced stats assessments, kind of a low efficiency player defensive liability with a little bit of a checkered record in a, in a, in a really strange and surprising way, in a surprising time, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the fact that this is a smart front office that must have. There's something else here that we're missing. At 11:56 now, Eastern Time on Wednesday, operating in a vacuum on an urgency pod.

Logan Murdoch (46:46)

I got one last question for you. Are you ready to go to sleep?

Howard Beck (46:53)

I don't know. I might watch a little bit more basketball before I go to bed, but yeah, probably pretty soon here.

Logan Murdoch (46:57)

Okay. Okay. Well, that was another edition of Real Ones. No Friday episode this week as far as we know because we did this one. But you never know, hey, you know, it might be another urgency pod and you know, with your boys. I am Logan Murdoch. That is Howard Beck. This is Real Ones After Dark. Trey Young to the Wizards. Weird. Definitely weird for the Wizards. We'll see you guys next week on Tuesday. That is going to be our first episode on the new platform. And you know what to do on Tuesdays. Real ones. Mailbag Gmail.com Real ones mailbag Gmail.com Real onesmailback Gmail.com maybe you get your question asked and it we can hear it on Netflix because that's what we going next week. Be all the shits by.