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- [00:00]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not an astronaut.
- [00:01]
Kyle Boone
I don't need an astronaut. Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe inspiring masterpiece.
- [00:09]
Justin Varior
So I met an alien.
- [00:11]
Kyle Boone
If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Lego Ryan Gosling in the first must see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG13, may be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters March 20.
- [00:30]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You know, with just one trip to Whole Foods, you can travel the world. First stop, discover the taste of the Mediterranean. With big sales on brands like Deco, Oreos and San Pellegrino. With Whole Foods prepared foods, dinner is solved. You can roam the world with empanadas, burritos, soups, and more. Maybe expand your snack repertoire to South America with colorful and crunchy Peruvian potato chips. Then straight to Mexico. For dessert, you can pick up a tres leches family pack cake for only $10 every Friday. All aboard. Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market.
- [01:24]
Justin Varior
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior, and joining me, Rob Mo Mahoney, J. Kyle, man and gentlemen, this is March. We've reached it. Kyle, this is your time. How you feeling?
- [01:37]
Kyle Boone
Very good. I got. I was tweeting about this. I got sucked into a. I'm just prime prey for these types of things, but, you know, any kind of highlight reel of, you know, Bill Raftery saying onions or, you know, March March Madness buzzer beaters. It was like midnight last night and I was just sitting there watching them. So, yeah, man, I'm. I'm getting. It's in the air. You can just kind of, you know, your. The whatever it is, whatever your way of, like, getting the sense for. For the vibe
- [02:07]
Justin Varior
right now.
- [02:08]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's the smell of my own elitism coming out because it's one of those things where as Kyle is talking about the insane that. That he is doing at midnight on a Sunday night, which is digging up highlights that I have no reference point for or interest in. It's like, I think I'm better than that, but obviously I'm not better than that. I'm just looking at Seon James highlights instead. And I. I think somehow that makes me superior.
- [02:29]
Justin Varior
I should make our upcoming NBA draft discussions very robust and thorough. Thank you.
- [02:35]
Rob Mahoney
Look, I'm here to do my job, here to be a professional. But, Justin, what's in the air for you? I mean, are you swelling with the glory of the upcoming March Madness?
- [02:44]
Justin Varior
I'll tell you what's not in the air and that is mold particles. Because this weekend I went to work on that bathroom. My friends, as you guys have seen, I was wearing the whole respirator outfit thing. I've gotten serious. We're fixing this bathroom and we're doing it one spray bottle. That might cause some long term health risks at a time.
- [03:06]
Rob Mahoney
Well, walk us through. Look, you're not an oversharer on social media, but you blast out into the world. Very stylish photo of yourself in your renovation bathroom with, you know, mask in tow. Take us through your thought process. I mean, what were you. What was it you were trying to convey to the world other than I am just a barrier and I'm getting shit done?
- [03:26]
Justin Varior
I. I meant to convey that I'm about this life and that you should get on my level, that everyone's out here building their brands. I'm building houses, all right? That's my brain.
- [03:38]
Rob Mahoney
I'll have you know, last time Justin was in la, I tried to subtly diss the Property brothers. And I've never seen Justin come to a more spirited defense. Like, don't do it. He really threw his body in front of the whole thing.
- [03:51]
Justin Varior
They're trailblazers.
- [03:53]
Kyle Boone
Are they? Are they Portland. Portland people? Is that true?
- [03:56]
Justin Varior
No, they're from Vegas and you would know that if you watch some of their offshoot shows. No, but they are trailblazers in the sense of just flipping houses, making the world better, a place for the rest of us, dog.
- [04:10]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think they invented capitalism, I got to tell you.
- [04:13]
Justin Varior
Opening concepts, helping the door for people to. To have a home. I don't know.
- [04:20]
Kyle Boone
So would you say you. Would you say you're like errant wandering per.
- [04:24]
Justin Varior
Per visit?
- [04:24]
Kyle Boone
Has your efficiency. Has it gone down at Home Depot, Justin? Or are you like, are you more. Are you a little more efficient in your visits there? How's that going?
- [04:33]
Justin Varior
No, in fact, this time I walked. It was a Lowe's because they have the specific backer board that I was looking for. I needed Go board and not Kerdi board. Obviously a little cheaper, you know, but also easier to move around if you're just doing it yourself. We'll get to that later.
- [04:50]
Kyle Boone
Segment two.
- [04:51]
Justin Varior
But they hit it in the back. Like, what you don't realize is they have a back wall that they hide all the good stuff and it's always there. I always am looking in the normal aisles, but they never put it there. It's always where you can't find it. So this one took a couple laps.
- [05:04]
Rob Mahoney
Do you think they're doing that to fuck with everyday people like us could be.
- [05:10]
Justin Varior
I also think, like, a lot of these stores are surprised when people show up now. They're always like, oh, just online. Like, just go online. You can figure it out there. I just don't think anyone that has a brick and mortar actually even values a brick and mortar anymore.
- [05:24]
Kyle Boone
That's sad. Sad to hear.
- [05:25]
Justin Varior
Do you want to get into this?
- [05:27]
Rob Mahoney
I kind of do, but we got to keep it moving. We got a full slate today, and we've already gotten into the full offerings of Lowe's.
- [05:33]
Justin Varior
That's sure.
- [05:34]
Kyle Boone
Well, that's a t. I think we set ourselves up for some kind of sponsorship. Right. Justin, you're just like. You're just a portrait of a man, you know, getting into this, into this. This new hobby at this stage of life. So hopefully we'. We can dangle that out there literally anytime.
- [05:49]
Justin Varior
I will sell out for just a coupon at Lowe's or Home Depot. Just. Just let me know. All right. But today's episode, we're talking.
- [05:57]
Kyle Boone
We're about.
- [05:57]
Justin Varior
We're building for the future here. That's right, because we're talking about.
- [06:00]
Kyle Boone
About sticking with it.
- [06:02]
Justin Varior
Yeah, we haven't checked in on the rookie class for a while. We've talked about some of the bigger guys in the class, and we'll do that as well. But we're going to do some updated comps for some of the top guys, maybe top 10 or so. We'll get into some sleepers deeper in the draft as well. But basically, what we know now about these players as NBA players and kind of updating our previous conceptions of them, maybe there's certain new things to tease out. Anything you guys want to talk about or should we just jump right in here?
- [06:27]
Rob Mahoney
Let's just jump into it.
- [06:30]
Justin Varior
So we got to talk Cooper Flag right off the jump. Not playing right now, but I was struck by this stat that I saw from Dan Feldman, which was as far as age 18 seasons for players in terms of box plus minus. Uh, there are only two players over one in the history of the NBA. One is LeBron James at 1.7. One is Cooper Flag at 1.3. Tracy McGrady is at 06, Amir Johnson at 04. Now, the quibble here is that there probably aren't a ton of AJ teen seasons in the NBA, especially after they reinstituted the one in Dun Rule, but this is pretty uncharted territory. And Kyle, I kind of think, like, that's where we are with Cooper, wondering not only is he, like, special, but honestly, like, how special does it get for him?
- [07:16]
Kyle Boone
He is. I mean. Yeah, obviously special. It's been. I'm trying to think of the age 18 seasons that that would even be in that stratosphere to be able to be compared. Yeah. Andrew by him did come to mind because he came in at 17, right? Yeah. Context is always interesting with rookies, and, you know, Cooper has had more thrown at him. I think one of the more essential sort of things to take into consideration is, you know, how many other shot creators are on this team? So he's getting burdened in a way. I think that was rough on him in the beginning, but he's kind of proven his merit over time and adjusted really well. I'm curious, like, the shooting percentages you go through and you look like. When you said LeBron, my mind went. And I was just like. I think whenever you're doing comps, you have to kind of start, stop and think, like, what's. What's so holy that we can't go near. You know, Kevin Durant is always one of mine where I'm just like, we're just not going. We're not going into that wing of the chapel of. Of. Of comps. He does have some kind of LeBron connective, bring people together kind of culture, tone setter things, but I don't know. But I don't think that I would go there totally in terms of, like, what he does. I guess that. Let's just use that as a starting point, I guess, for. For how we want to decide who he's comparable to.
- [08:37]
Rob Mahoney
The fact that you even have to stop to consider it is what makes him such an insane prospect. And I think you're. You're right on, Kyle, about the context with any rookie being really the governing factor of whether they're good out of the gate, whether their skill set makes sense out of the gate, and for the Mavs to throw, I don't know, like, between five and six and 10 different contexts at him over the course of the season because they've been such a mess. And in every single one of those, he's been a plus defender. He's been like a live wire athlete who can break out and transition or get a tip, dunk at basically any time, has been a really dogged driver and, like a smart facilitator to the LeBron part of this, within the context of whatever position he's playing at any given point in time, whether there's space or not, he's just one of these guys who I think is going to help everyone around him make more sense. And that is not going to change. What is going to change is probably get a little more confident with the shooting over time. I've already seen over the course of this year like night and day between who he was as a three point shooter early in the season to now. I just have zero doubt that he's going to be a good three point shooter in time. And so my comp for him right now based on everything we've seen is the best parts of Jimmy Butler and the best parts of Paul George mashed up together because I, I feel like we, you see a lot of the, the a rhythmic stuff that makes Jimmy Butler so good and the smooth athletic stuff that made Paul George so good. And if you can do all of that at the same time while being the competitor that he is, like that's going to be a hell of a player.
- [10:03]
Justin Varior
I'm glad you mentioned the fluidity because that's the one thing that really jumped out to me. I think the comps he was getting coming out of college. You heard a lot of Tatum, you heard a lot of Kawhi Leonard. I think to a certain extent just because we compare all bigger wing scorer types to those guys because those really are the template for modern wing scores. If not Paul George, but the way that he's just stringing things together almost so naturally is really jumped out to me. And if anything after he got through first 10 or so games of playing point, Cooper feels like everything has just been like on a string for him in a way that I wasn't expecting from any rookie, let alone a guy his age. And then on top of that, the scoring of late, especially post Anthony Davis trade. So in the six games since before the injury that just occurred, 49, 34, 36, 32, 14, 27, it's just like crazy. He just kind of just bursts off into 30 like it's nothing and now he's getting the opportunity to do so because there aren't a lot of miles to feed on that offense when he is healthy. But just like the high level stuff is just really coming quickly for him. So what I had down here because I was like Kyle, I was like, I started to look back onto some pretty historic comps. I have Hardo George Gervin and now I don't really have a ton of like just experience watching Gervin, but just from highlights and I went back and watched some more. There's just like I could talk low
- [11:23]
Kyle Boone
Gervin if you'd like, please.
- [11:24]
Justin Varior
Yeah, well, if you want off base.
- [11:27]
Kyle Boone
I don't think he's as like slinky elastic as George Gervin, but I think he is way, way more physical. You know, we in the guide that we're going to be doing just to spoil it. One of the, one of the terms that I've brought up a lot over the years, it's just been one of my little barroom things I say about players is tuxedo score. George Gervin is the hall of Fame one of one tuxedo scorer. He was like, I'm going to, I'm going to avoid you and score over you and make. And make it look good. Cooper is. Cooper has a lot more MF than him. Like I'm going to like hit you in the mouth. There was a play that I clipped out that was, you know, one of the things that really translated that has. He's found a way to sort of work towards it. Translating for him in is his. He has this interesting overhanded short mid range middle game that is not a lot of guys have where he can get to the basket. He's got a great left hand through contact to the basket. He'll try to dunk on you if he can. He has all of those things. But Cooper, I was worried about him sort of prepping his driving lanes and he does this interesting thing where. And I'll get to the clip in a second, but he, he kind of attacks you with one dribble and then he hits you with his back and he attacks you with another dribble and he hits you with his back and he just kind of does that over and over. And he's gotten really good to speak what Rob was talking about. Like he's. He's sort of created this language of movement to get to his spots for himself. And that's kind of the thing that he's figured out. And I clipped out this thing where they were playing the Celtics the other night. Granted that didn't go super well, but he had Jaylen Brown on him, you know, and Cooper is a teenager. Jaylen Brown was up in his. Trying to like bump him, like bother him. And Cooper was like, I'm gonna hit you with my back. And then at one point, and this is just like a classic vet thing, Brown just kind of put his arm on him just, just ever so slightly. But Jaylen Brown putting his arm on him is going to be different than, you know, any of the three of us putting our like strong man. And he hit him. And Cooper, without being like delayed, distracted, bothered was just like hit, hit the arm in stride, was not bothered and into. Kind of corkscrewed into his little 15 footer. I think that that play is kind of a microcosm to me of him learning to play through the contact, deal with the pressure, get to his spots in the NBA. And I, I just, I think his, that is the beginning point for him and everything else. Like you were saying, the three point shooting, I think it's going to get there. But yeah, for comps. Yeah. Would you guys want to comment on that part of it before I get to my comps?
- [13:49]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I just think as far as players go, you can't get downhill as often as he does without that ability to play through contact. And it's something that we, we look at a lot of young players who come in and wait for that part of their game to develop. When are they going to be able to push through, especially as a teenager or someone who's coming in at 20, when are they going to have the body type to play through that sort of physicality that it's already baked into what he does, I think just sets him up for incredible success because he's already getting to the basket a lot. He's already getting to the free throw line a lot. When those things are givens, everything else feels like gravy.
- [14:21]
Kyle Boone
I, I'm, I went back and looked at my comp cloud and the guide. I'm not, I really, I do like the gym that like the Jimmy Butler, Paul George kind of thing. You know, I think both of those guys were probably more solid handlers. But granted Jimmy was a little older. Both of them were a little older when the time they got in. I'm sticking to, I'm, I'm leaning away from the Sean Marions and my, my tweak of my, of the guide would be I'm leaning away from the Shawn Marions even though I do think he has some of those qualities. And the Kirolinkos, I think he's just probably more in the Pippin Tatum, I'm sticking with that. Honestly. I, I think in the Pippen, which, which we're kind of, it's different names for the same thing. Honestly. I think when we're talking about just big forwards who can kind of do things, I still kind of wonder about his offensive ceiling where I'm like, I think the best version of Cooper is going to be playing next to like a hyper scorer where like the passing and the things, like the things that he adds, I think he's going to a high, high version of that archetype. But I mean he's given a lot of pause that, that any kind of doubt that you might have about him being like an offensive superstar on number one. But we'll see.
- [15:25]
Justin Varior
Yeah, the Pippen one is interesting too because I thought about that as well. I almost wonder if Pippen was allowed to have like the baseball Jordan year from the start, if he would got something closer. Yeah, go ahead.
- [15:36]
Kyle Boone
Can I attack something on to, to be fair, I think people when they think about Pippen, they think about perpetual number two. I think his specific context is such a unique one in history. Where in any other multiverse, Scotty Pippen would have been a number one on a really good team. He was the number two on a team that won six titles out of 10. So when you say that he's a Scottie Pippen, I think people take that as a slight sometimes, but it's just like every other iteration he's playing next to arguably the Goat. And then like you were saying, Justin and I'll get off the stage here when that year where Jordan didn't play, Pippen almost won the fucking mvp. So. So I just wanted to qualify that. That is not an insult to, to Cooper Flag at all. Like if he becomes peak Scotty Pippen, that is a hell of a basketball player.
- [16:24]
Justin Varior
Yeah. And I think that's ultimately where the conversation kind of nets out is. He's not just good, but like how good are we talking about? Are we talking like future top 10? Like if we were to completely reshuffle the league, how quickly if you're to do basically trade value, like how quickly are you taking Cooper? It's like Probably Wemby at 1, I guess Shea, considering that he's still young enough. But then contract comes into play there. Like, are we getting to Cooper in like the three to four range? Or Rob, like, when does Cooper start to factor in in terms of like just actual guys you want to start a franchise with?
- [17:01]
Rob Mahoney
I think you would get there pretty quickly, especially as you get into some of the more risk averse propositions. Right. If you're talking about guys who have super high upside, but you don't necessarily know how bad they could be or how mediocre they could be. I'm not worried about any of that stuff with Cooper. Like, I have my doubts that Cooper Flag will ever be one of the three best players in the NBA, but I feel incredibly confident he will inevitably be that like 7 to 10 range. And it could happen really really quickly for him. And so that's where like an ant Edwards is still going to go before him. Just based on the upside alone. Obviously Wimby is in that category. You would think a healthy Jason Tatum would go ahead of him. Probably Tyrese Halliburton still, I would think based on age. And then you get into, you know, Cade or Brunson or those kinds of conversations. But I just think Cooper could very quickly become the kind of player who, yeah, you don't remodel your entire franchise around because his game is so flexible and that will always be something that makes him a little more understated, but he's just going to be so valuable to winning teams for a really long time.
- [18:03]
Justin Varior
Yeah. Well, despite his long term trajectory, I think it's looking possible, if not likely, that he might not win Rookie of the Year. We'll see if and when he comes back. But we need to talk about Con Knippel because I was looking through some of the stats. I know he was good. I know the Hornets have been good in large part because of his combination with Miller and Lamelo, but I didn't realize it was like practically one of the best rookie seasons in history. So right now, best rookie true shooting percentage ever of all time, best effective field goal percentage in history of all time. No rookie has ever attempted eight threes a game. And in fact, if you drop it down to five threes a game, which is still pretty like it's a lot, but we see that all the time now. But obviously more of a modern convention in terms of letting guys shoot that many. So five threes a game, but over 40% from three. There's only been three. Three other guys. It's been Keegan Murray, it's been Halliburton, and it's been Landry Shamit. So specialists in Halliburton, who was kind of shuttled into a specialist role, and Khan is shooting at like 44, 45%. Like it's pretty like unbelievable stuff we're seeing right now.
- [19:15]
Rob Mahoney
I mean he just looks like an all time shooter growing up right in front of us. And, and I say that as kind of the baseline of what he's going to be as a pro because he also handles the ball so much. He's also such like a good connector and a good competitor. I, I still think the Cooper swell in terms of the voting will come, especially if he comes back and continues on the tear that he was on. But you really can't dispute the sort of rookie season Khan has had. I mean it is, it's been illuminating in terms of his potential, but it's also just been awesome to see as a young player right now.
- [19:45]
Kyle Boone
Yeah, it's funn about Cooper with the Hornets, like thinking about context again. It's like what they're being asked to do. I was going to comment on the, on the three point thing. I mean, it's interesting that some of those guys that we think of as the elite all time shooters don't show up because, you know, Clay and Steph hadn't even benefited from the, the movement that they ultimately started in terms of their stats when they were rookies. You know, it's like the volume of threes that they were taking at that point where so Khan is just kind of paying them homage, I guess with this in a way. But yeah, I think just speaking to when I'm, when I'm looking back at his game and the arc of like seeing him initially in high school and then college and you just kind of measuring your expectations from level to level and what you expect. I think one of the things as it pertains to his shooting that I underestimated and probably, you know, not probably, I definitely didn't account for is he translated in terms of the speed and the dynamism of the types of shots that he can take. Like he, he's shooting it quicker than I ever would have expected. And maybe some of the plotting kind of nature last year of Duke was like, they were like the Monstars. They were gigantic, huge front line. They displayed a different style and like the. It really was a big contrast between, contrast between the way that they played and the way that I did that just for Rob and the way that the Hornets are playing. Like, you know, Duke was slow, pounded inside big and the Hornets are just all over the place. Crazy, crazy, crazy. And he's answered that in a way, like what's the limit on the shooting? Now that, that I think has been really, really impressive. Like he's just been so off the charts with the efficiency.
- [21:27]
Justin Varior
I also think the fact that he's so compact, like I don't know, like how strong he is. I don't know about like what his rippling abs are looking like underneath the jersey, but he's just so sturdy that they're able to use him in pick and pop situations and they go to it, I think, whenever they really need a bucket. And you could see it and it's just such a devastating play, especially because of Miller out there when Lamello out there is just so much creation and shooting, it's just like, where do you pick your poison? So I have down here. Again, I'm digging into the past just because I think Clay is like an obvious one, but if anything, I don't remember Clay having that sort of on the bounce game, but also just like that same sort of, like, physicality kind of baked into what he does just yet. I have modern Chris Mullen here, and I know it's a. The. We're not doing cross racial comms here, so it's a little bit of an easier one, but I just feel like Mullen blended a lot of those things. And if he had been able to shoot as much as modern players are, I almost feel like he would have been a little bit more.
- [22:28]
Rob Mahoney
Connie, how do you think Khan would look with the flat top? Do you think he could pull it off?
- [22:32]
Kyle Boone
Just thinking that, yeah, I'm sure somebody will Photoshop that. Did you see the Instagram photo that the horn has put out of him growing up where he at one point had like, Harry Potter Coke bottle glasses? Of course, man.
- [22:46]
Justin Varior
It's almost like a modern flat top, though.
- [22:48]
Rob Mahoney
It's just like, wow.
- [22:49]
Kyle Boone
Yeah, I wish he was still wearing glasses. Yeah. Lasik, maybe.
- [22:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [22:56]
Kyle Boone
Okay.
- [22:57]
Rob Mahoney
I do think you're hitting on a JV in terms of. It's got to be like the. The touch and the shooting and the finesse, but also the toughness that comes with being a Mullen type. I went Sonics for some reason with my comp, And I said 75% Ray Allen, 25% Nick Collison. How do we feel about that? The.
- [23:17]
Kyle Boone
The midsection thing? That was the.
- [23:19]
Rob Mahoney
That was one of the hard.
- [23:20]
Kyle Boone
The hard things about, you know, because when I was looking at him coming out of college, I was like, okay, this is a movement shooter that can add some pick and roll, but those guys just aren't normally built like Khan. And that was what was so difficult. I'm going to just kind of go back and criticize my own cowardice from last fall, where, Justin, you might even remember this. I was, like, writing about how I thought he should play point guard for Duke. And I was like watching him and I said, he kind of has some, like, Devin Bookery things, the way that he plays when he's in the mid range. And I came off of that when it came time for the guide, where I was just like, I don't. You don't have the courage to do that. And I didn't. You talking to myself. I was a coward. I think he does have some Booker to his game when he gets in the middle of the floor. Cause I think his technique is so sharp. I had. I'd take Wally Zerbiak out of my comp cloud. That was just a white guy move probably. But Gordon Hayward, I still would stick that in there a little bit. I'd add a little more, a little sprinkle of clay in there obviously with the, with the level of elite shooting. But I would, I would sprinkle some more. I would sprinkle some Booker in there. I, I really think he has that in his game and I think he has self creation upside that is going to change the conversation even more in the future.
- [24:24]
Rob Mahoney
I think that's what's made him so like consistently good and undeniable this year are the bookery Gordon Hayward elements right where it is. You're right Kyle, that it's like the context in which he is a good shooter are so diverse and he's able to get to so many different spots off the dribble that make sense for him. That's just the kind of score you're never going to be able to fully take away. And it's the one that every good like playoff caliber team in the modern NBA really, really needs.
- [24:48]
Justin Varior
Booker, if he could actually shoot.
- [24:50]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [24:50]
Justin Varior
Somehow came into the league as a shooter only and now 31 from three. Yeah.
- [24:55]
Rob Mahoney
It's always bizarre. Yeah.
- [24:56]
Kyle Boone
One of the great like what the hell's going on with that ever like the optics just don't.
- [25:01]
Rob Mahoney
It's a beautiful shot and he always makes like 33% of his threes.
- [25:05]
Kyle Boone
I.
- [25:06]
Rob Mahoney
It's baffling.
- [25:08]
Justin Varior
Just doubled too much in. In practice runs. He just couldn't work out his game. Could be. I do worry in terms of the rookie of the year race for Cooper that the game's played distance is starting to widen into a bit of a gap. So right now flag has played 49, Knipple has played 60. Not something that you totally hold against a rookie. And if anything Rob, I believe there aren't the same sort of restrictions on games played for rookies as there are big boy players, the veterans. But you know if, if Cooper or if Khan is playing 70 games for a playing team and Cooper kind of just bolts down the stretch, isn't able to play as much. Maybe doesn't have as many of those Heisman moments as we've talked about. I don't know Kyle, do you find yourself one way or another? I personally think Khan, if we were to shut down the race today would win it. Where do you Fall.
- [26:00]
Kyle Boone
I mean, I think the, the context thing is if you, if you were going to go through and say like what spoils the broth of certainty with, with Khan, it's like Cooper's being asked to do a whole lot more. Cooper is also. Con is underrated, I would say defensively. I don't think, you know, he's being deprived of like his true credit as like an assignment guy or anything like that.
- [26:23]
Rob Mahoney
I think he's fine.
- [26:24]
Kyle Boone
He holds up better, I think, than people. Like if you go, if you like go. He's one of those. I think this is the level you want to get to if you're an offensive guy. Like Khan is if you go out of your way to like change what you do to go at him. You run the risk of like, we just wasted a few possessions in a row because he's holds up better than like, I think Khan's going to get to that spot. But Cooper is just more dynamic and he's always going to have more of a. He's going to have more tools on that front. So I say all that to say those, those are the sort of things that make you, you wonder about it. But Khan's efficiency and he. And he's contributing to winning, I think. And that, and I think that he intrinsically has been one of the key things that has really spun this Hornets thing into orbit in a way that's just the, you know, I was talking about the self creation stuff. I think one of the big things too is that he, he can't be. He's very steady. People say that a lot about him. But he's also steady in just the, the lanes that he takes to get to the things that he does. You just don't see a lot of errant, like, what was he doing there? You don't see that with Khan. Khan's just like, I do these like eight things and I have that option at any given moment and I'm going to go to those pitches when I need to. So all that to say, I think I think con deserves it at the end of the day. Give him a slight edge.
- [27:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think there's also like, what is this race actually about in terms of voting versus what should it be about? And what it will be about is like reputation for Cooper versus history with Khan. Right. Like if he's still setting those kinds of high watermarks historically, that's going to be the argument. Whereas I think it probably should be like versatility versus focus a little bit. It should be like, I think the Defensive part of it should be a bigger part of that conversation because Cooper has been like far and away a better defender, I would say overall. But I just don't think many people who vote for Rookie of the Year care that much about how their rookies play defense. And so we're going to end up with do you want the guy who was the number one overall pick or do you want the guy putting up the numbers no one ever has before as a first year player?
- [28:16]
Justin Varior
So they're not over.500 right now, the Hornets, but they do are. They're only like two games back of the Magic for seventh in the play in race.
- [28:25]
Rob Mahoney
That's crazy.
- [28:26]
Justin Varior
And they're only three and a half games back of the Sixers for six place. I think if he gets them into the sixth spot, if we're into like the big boy playoffs from the jump, then it becomes inarguable. And if we're talking about like likelihood, like they're playing better than most teams in the NBA, especially a team like the Sixers that's hobbling right now because Embiid isn't in there. I think it's possible that's the type of loud thing that you could probably can't ignore where it's just like, this is one of the best rookies of all time. Maybe we'll get more national TV games, maybe they'll just get more publication over the back end of the season. Then it becomes, I think a real deal thing. But you're probably right. Ultimately it's, it's a PR war. All right, should we go to Dylan Harper now? I think the big question with Harper, if you just want to start here off the bat, is should the spurs have drafted Khan over Harper? Now I have my personal opinion about that. I don't know if anyone wants to take the floor first here.
- [29:22]
Rob Mahoney
This is an excruciating one. Like Harper over time in terms of what he projects into is an incredibly exciting player and maybe exactly what it is the spurs need two years from now. And I think part of the reason we're even having this conversation is because the spurs are proven to be so good so quickly that all of a sudden a rookie con feels like somebody who could make a really significant difference for this team on a postseason run. I don't know that you can forecast for that though. Even when you have Wemby, even when you have Castle, even when you have a roster you really like, could the spurs have reasonably gone into this season expecting to be like a top five team on both Sides of the ball in contention for the Western Conference. I don't think they could have just like put that in pen.
- [30:07]
Kyle Boone
Yeah, I mocked the spurs to take, not like made fun of them, but I mock draft them, drafted him taking con. And one of the things that we kind of came off of was he just doesn't, he, he doesn't fit the archetype of the type of player that they have been targeting recently, which is, you know, really, really wide, versatile defensive tools, big, long, switchable kind of thing. Like so you could see why, you could see it coming, why they didn't do it. If you just wanted to just like imagine plugging him in with the spurs team, I mean, yeah, it would, it would work. Absolutely. I think there, there are other arguments though too for Harper where it's like. And we can get into this where it's like Harper gives them another timeline in a way if, if things play out another way. Because I think from just watching him and just this past week I thought that he showed some flashes that were really, really like holy moly type stuff. But it's also interesting to see the think of Harper with the Hornets. I mean like they don't, I don't, they don't have a physical downhill guy kind of like him. That's been kind of their problem.
- [31:14]
Justin Varior
Yeah. So I ultimately end up with Harper where I think the conversation started with him, which is how you find lineups in which he and Castle can really coexist together. So Harper plus Castle, it's only been 356 minutes. The defense is good because the defense overall for the spurs is quite good. I think they just have so much personnel including having Castle on the floor. The offense is, is pretty middling. It's 111 offensive rating. So not great. But the thing is when you take Castle and Fox off the floor, which is 300 minutes, the offense is incredible with just Harper. It's 128.3 offensive rating. It's a plus 12.8. Just overall net rating. And so to me it's like I think Harper long term projects into the player that we all thought he was. I think he's like a big downhill creator. I have OKC Harden as the comp because that's just the obvious one. But the at the basket finishing is just much more Kyrie esque, like special. I'm able to contort and like just time in ways that like few players can. But it's just like what you need right now versus what you need down the road and it's just like I still think if you're the spurs, you take the long term bet because I think Harper could be special in an archetype that I just think matters more than Khan, who's probably best in conjunction with the guys that he's playing with now, honestly.
- [32:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, especially when the right now is already so good. Like there's just nothing to argue with about the spurs current circumstances where even if you're taking a slight compromise now for a huge payoff potentially in a couple years, the spurs can weather that and they can weather it while still competing with the best teams in the West. So I like the Harding comp. I think that's, that's kind of where we need to be oriented is like who gets downhill as easily and as seamlessly as Dylan Harper does because already he's one of those guys who's just impossible to keep in front of you. And maybe this is just the serendipity of seeing them go head to head on Sunday. But like big old Jalen Brunson is what I think of a lot of times when I watch Dylan Harper play. Like there's something about the stop and start to his game, the way that
- [33:12]
Kyle Boone
he just kind of like an apostrophe or specifically.
- [33:18]
Rob Mahoney
Well, it's got to be an apostrophe.
- [33:19]
Kyle Boone
First of all, that's a very chow comp cloud.
- [33:22]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I just, I think the bobs and weaves of Dylan Harper's driving style to me, Reid is very Jalen Brunson. He's not using it to the same like pump fake jab step like draw foul ends as of yet, but he's using it to get to the basket and finish just as easily as Brunson
- [33:38]
Kyle Boone
does, as we often do. I went down, you know the basketball reference season finder thing here because I was just trying to imagine I was looking for comp in all the right places here. Hopefully. I was just thinking about like over 20 point. Tell me if you think this is crazy. I mean over 20 points, I think conservatively over four and a half assists. He's been getting near that in like 20 minutes. So. And over like one and a half steals which we can get to the defense and just the names that show up on that list are like holiest of holy kind of guards. Like he's the downhill stuff. What's interesting is pre ACL Ron Harper shows up multiple times on that list. I thought that was pretty interest. And if you talk to. That's one I'm not as educated on. But you talked about people who followed the league or just players, they were like, pre acl. Ron Harper was a bad, bad boy. Just the.
- [34:29]
Rob Mahoney
The.
- [34:29]
Kyle Boone
The lowness of the way that he plays, I think comes into play on both ends of the floor. You all remember those. This is a very random pool. You all remember those Pontiac commercials from, like, the early 2000s?
- [34:42]
Justin Varior
Not expecting that at all, but, yes, keep going.
- [34:46]
Kyle Boone
The wider is better. Do you remember those Pontiac Grand Prix from the early 2000s that were like 80ft wide and it was like, really low to the ground?
- [34:56]
Justin Varior
I agree.
- [34:58]
Rob Mahoney
The wider is better.
- [35:01]
Kyle Boone
Don't derail. No, I mean, the way that he. He is. He is a perpetual low man. Wins just at all times. Like, if you. If you watch him get to the basket, he's just so strong and wide. And then I was talking to somebody this weekend about this. When he gets into the paint, we were talking about, like, anticipatory processing when you're in the paint versus reactive. He can just get into the paint and be presented with, like, thrown a curveball by the defense. And he's so stable and strong and wide that he can, like, make really good decisions. And he has out wide vocabulary, Larry, like getting off the ball, his strength and wiggle getting to the basket. To me, I wanted to sprinkle. I'm sticking with the recipe thing. I want to sprinkle a little Dwyane Wade on there because I just think the hard thing's hard because it's like Harden's shooting upside, I think, was higher when he was younger.
- [35:54]
Justin Varior
When you guys say that's where it kind of tapers off. Because what's funny is, like, I was. I was thinking back of trying to make these comps, and I was like, well, Harden might not have this, like, just athletic burst that I think Harper did, but then I went back and watched a bunch of old Harden clips. I was like, no, actually, Harden kind of got after it.
- [36:11]
Rob Mahoney
That's like the best.
- [36:13]
Justin Varior
Like, the best version of Harden. Yeah, he was just like. He was still getting downhill, but he was much more slender and was less force and more just like guy on craft. But the shooting was there immediately. And I think that's the big thing with Harper. So he's only at 25% from 3, I guess. what point do you get concerned about this? I think as a rookie, you kind of have a little bit of a leash. Like, yeah, you're finding things out. We kind of knew about this going into the draft. Obviously a concern. Probably the biggest concern with him and Castle sharing the court together. But like at. Do you like, at a certain point start to worry about that trickling into who he will be long term?
- [36:48]
Rob Mahoney
I think I don't get worried about it until I see it in the playoffs with him. It'd be, you know, it's different for every player. But when you're bringing this much to the table already, I need to see the way that postseason defenses are going to cheat off of him or Castle to kind of compromise what the spurs are doing. If. If it has like a real cost to it. Because if it's just this theoretical thing where, yeah, neither of these guys can really shoot, but they're also really active off the ball. But also Wemby is drawing so much attention and it just kind of works, then I, I really don't mind so much. And I think every team can kind of like find its balance and its formula and its little bit of magic to kind of fake its way through some of those things. But if it comes to be a real problem, then yeah, we have to have a conversation about the future of that backcourt and whether either of them project as any kind of reputable shooter where when they don't have the ball, they're able to project as some kind of threat.
- [37:38]
Kyle Boone
If you made me guess right now, like at volume, if he had the opportunity, what his percentage would be, I would say it'd probably be like 34, 33. I'd say that's like the good that I don't expect him to become like a 38 to, you know, I don't see that happening.
- [37:53]
Rob Mahoney
And is that mostly off the dribble stuff, Kyle, do you think in time or will he be just like 34 spot up?
- [37:59]
Kyle Boone
Depends on who he's playing with. I mean, if he keeps playing with this alignment, there's going to be a lot more spot up. But you know, if. And you saw this in college, I mean, he was such a crazy. Without any spacing, it'll probably be better on that front, but teams would just start walling him up because he was just so elite at getting to the basket. And you mentioned the playoffs. Agree or disagree with this? I think I'm going to say right now there's going to be a game in the playoffs where teams are going to be scheming for Fox and for Wimby and for Castle. He is so talented. There's going to be a nuclear Dylan Harper playoff game where he just has a one off and we're like, holy shit, they have another like potential first team, all NBA, maybe even like flirt with MVP level talent on their team. That is going to happen. I feel like.
- [38:46]
Justin Varior
Yeah. All right, why don't we take a break, we come back, talk about some of these other rookies. The Ringer NBA show is presented by FanDuel basketball fans. It's almost time for the Super Trade Day sweepstakes. FanDuel is all about those three pointer moments and on March 3rd, that's three three. You'll have your own shot at a big win from downtown. Place a three point wager and you'll be entered to win a share for over $3.3 million in bonus bets. So we're looking ahead to March 3rd on the calendar. I like Kade Cunningham to get over two threes because my producer Isaiah Blakely told me to lock that in. They're playing the Cavs big marquee game, but I like Cade to put it up. Give me over two threes for Cade Cunningham and download the Sportsbook app now to claim your profit Boost to enter FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA, 21 select states or 18/DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. No purchase necessary. Opt in require limit 1 entry profit boost bonus issued as non withdrawable Profit Boost Token prizes issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInCenetic this episode is brought to you by Tommy Hilfiger. Here's what happens when west coast relaxation meets modern prep in Tommy Hilfiger's spring collection. Think light Wash denim and new relaxed silhouettes paired with oversized trenches and chore coats with heritage inspired touches. Then take those rugby and polo shirts you love and elevate them with rich cable textures and new Tommy Crests. And in easy, breezy light layers and linen essentials, you've got laid back sophistication. Explore more@tommy.com this episode is brought to
- [40:35]
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- [41:01]
Justin Varior
All right, we passed over number three in the Draft Vijay Edgecombe. I'll just get right to my comp, which is, what if Scoot Henderson was good?
- [41:11]
Rob Mahoney
Wait, say that one more time for those of us who have been, you know, rebutting you on Scoot for weeks now.
- [41:17]
Justin Varior
I. I did this just for you, but I just think about especially the way Scoot is playing now where he's a little bit more on, like, the swing pass and then doing his movement. You could talk about Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell were the other guys that come to mind just because of the way his dribble kind of swoops. And I think with Wade, there's sort of that physicality to him that makes for the obvious comp. But I don't know, it just feels like he has that combination of the shooting, which is tapered off some, but I think is still very much there. But also that, like, physical downhill, I'm gonna dunk over your head sort of Persona that, like, I think you're hoping to bring out of Scoot. So it's. It's nice that it ended up somewhere. I'm glad to see it.
- [41:57]
Rob Mahoney
I'm glad to see it, too. I mean, I. I think it's almost more like the athlete that people told us Scoot Henderson was, and then you saw him in real time with G League ignite, and you're like, yeah, this guy is, like, big and physical, but he doesn't have, like, even as far as big and physical guards go, like the Eric Bledsoe burst, you know, like, he didn't really have that pop first step. He's just kind of like. Like a sort of savvy manipulator who's finding his way into the league. We all hope the best for Scoot Henderson. I think what VJ shows in the open court off of, like, even just at a standstill launching into drives definitely is more evocative of the Dwayne Wade, Donovan Mitchell kind of explosion. For me, I had Monte Ellis with his priorities straight. I think there's something about, like, I have one.
- [42:42]
Justin Varior
I have Monte below, but this is wild we're doing for Vijay.
- [42:47]
Rob Mahoney
I can't believe we got multiple Montes in these comps, but I think there's something about Vijay that asks you to grab at theoretical. Because he's already right now, like, a really disciplined player for a winning team. Like, he has slotted in, found his role, is able to play off of Maxi and Embiid so, so easily that I. Now I'm just wondering, like, what does he look like when they really let him run. When they really let the future version of the Sixers be a maxi and VJ team to its fullest extent or whatever the roster looks like at that point in time. That's thrilling. And I think it's, it's thrilling in a way where he has all this athletic explosion. He does have that shot. He's also the kind of player where I just like trust him to do the right things. And that's just not true of a lot of guys when they come into the league.
- [43:31]
Kyle Boone
I think a lot of my questions coming in are still there, but I think some of the things that were the baseline of his proposed value have been higher, quicker in terms of like, I think like open shots. I think the shooting trailed off, has trialed off a little bit, but just the, the basic simple things that he does, like attacking a straight line drive. Granted he's getting into the lane, getting his little snake dribble, pull up stuff. The, the problem for him right now, I think is the, for the self creation upside is the craft. During the moments where he can't just kind of be shot out of a game. A lot of his is like a binary of he shot out of a cannon. Does he get to the spot before the other person. Like there has to be a slowdown in between, in the moments where, where that's not happening, where he shows that he has responses to like defenses loading him up or, or playing to his strengths and forcing him to make decisions and things like that. Like, I just think some of that, that craft needs to come out for him. I had, I still think that the, the Oladipo, like sliding doors. Oladipo, like if he hadn't had his career derailed mixed with Derek White. To me, where it's like if you're hedging a little bit on the primary stuff that I was talking about, if you think like, okay, maybe those things don't blossom into full elite status, but he's a very good. Next to another guard player. He can go, he can, you know, defend just about anybody, like hit open shots. You know, that's, that's like an all. That's a. How many times was Oladipo an all star? It was more than once, right?
- [45:08]
Rob Mahoney
It was. I think he made it twice. Yeah.
- [45:10]
Kyle Boone
So you think okay, once. Yeah, maybe he does it two or three more times cross with like an Olympian winner. I think that's a really good player. I mean, there are people who think I'm crazy in that sense and they think, okay, he's a star. I'm kind of. I'm almost there. I just think he's going to be a really, really good winning player. Like, that's.
- [45:28]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I think that's my question overall is like, what is the scale here? What does he get into next year, two years down the road? Are we talking about like a true dueling Banjo situation with Maxi where they're just like trading off who's operating the offense? Is it like we're getting to the point where we have to stagger them because he's such a good creator? But like right now it feels like a lot of just pure muscle memory and just instinct driving a lot of his best qualities. I do wonder what the next level for that is. Whereas like I've already seen Harper and Khan and Cooper, like kind of think the game at a level where I feel a little bit more comfortable about the training translation into that next level.
- [46:04]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think it is the thinking of the game aspects. I also think he's one of these guys. We don't really say this very often because everyone is so schooled to death now, but like an off season or two in the lab working on that one on one stuff like this is what separates a Dwyane Wade from an athletic two guard who has all of the gifts at their disposal. Like Dwayne Wade turned himself into one of the most schooled and fundamental guards in modern NBA history. And that's a high bar for anyone to get to. But like there is room between the instinct Vijay is playing with now as you're talking about Justin and getting to a level where he's able to create one on one in mid range, where he's able to get to his shots with a consistency that isn't reliant on just being the most explosive player on the court.
- [46:46]
Justin Varior
I still believe in Scoot.
- [46:49]
Rob Mahoney
Just get it on the record.
- [46:50]
Kyle Boone
I was watching your eyes squint and smile a little bit. I was like, what is he getting ready to say?
- [46:54]
Justin Varior
I was just going to try to shoot that horn in that.
- [46:56]
Rob Mahoney
I appreciate it.
- [46:58]
Justin Varior
Been a bad road trip, I'll say that.
- [47:01]
Kyle Boone
Yeah. Just to speak to that a little bit.
- [47:04]
Rob Mahoney
Shooting like 29% for weeks and you're like, yeah, it's just like 10 games this season.
- [47:09]
Justin Varior
Settle down there. It's pitchfork way.
- [47:12]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just simply saying he hasn't been very good yet. I hope he's good, but he hasn't been very good yet.
- [47:17]
Kyle Boone
I want to say something not about Scoot, about VJ Edgecomb.
- [47:20]
Rob Mahoney
Is that allowed?
- [47:21]
Kyle Boone
Rob. Rob made me Remember, I think, to be fair to vjooqic, we do this a lot where the age really matters. Like, Dwayne Wade played, I think, and he had a knee injury year, so he was. God, he was a little bit older. I don't have it in front of me, but it's probably 22ish when he came to the league. And Vijay is earlier on his NBA timeline. So if you. If you're talking about like a handling leap and you're trying to measure how pessimistic you are about that happening, I think you have to consider that so he has a chance. And he's a worker. From everything I've heard.
- [47:50]
Justin Varior
Yeah. All right, let's go to Ace Bailey now. Finally getting to really see him do stuff because for a while he was pretty deferential and kind of buried because there was so much talent in Utah that they had to make sure to only play certain amount of minutes because they were too good. Didn't really get a lot of shine for Ace, but he is getting opportunities now. He had 23 against the Pelicans. He's fifth among rookie scorers since January 1st, which feels kind of notable at the very least. What's funny, watching some of the heights, a lot of it is just jumpers, Just, especially in that Pelicans game where it's just like coming off of curls, just. Just jumper, just putting it up. And so what he does. I wanted to go Richard.
- [48:26]
Kyle Boone
Yeah.
- [48:27]
Justin Varior
I wanted to go with Rashard Lewis, but it does. It feels like a little bit more of a stretch. If anything, it's just more isolation. MPJ is what we're getting, which, as we're seeing in Brooklyn, which is kind of. That player is still a very good player and someone who I think will have success climbing on to an existing structured there. And I think that's what you're hoping for if you have Lowry and now Jaren and some of the other guys they're bringing in there. George, too.
- [48:50]
Rob Mahoney
Let me counter you as far as comps go. Straight up. Danny Granger. How do we feel about Ace Bailey as Danny Granger?
- [48:57]
Justin Varior
I thought about that athleticism wise, for sure.
- [49:00]
Rob Mahoney
For sure. And I think it's like they. They are reliant on their jumpers and in the combination of, like, the size and the shooting, right. That very specific interplay where they're not the most explosive, but what they're able to get to because of that combination can be pretty profound. They have a similar build, although Granger, of course, like, I think a little more Physical, a little stockier, and maybe Ace will grow into that player over time. But also I think it's a fair barometer of like Danny Granger, one time All Star. Do we think Ace Bailey over. Like, where would you put the over under for Ace Bailey in terms of All Star selections? I think he has a chance to be a really special score, a really productive one for a long time. But is he ever going to hit that next threshold where he's regularly making All Star games? I honestly don't really know.
- [49:45]
Kyle Boone
Yeah, if you're going over under one and a half, I'd say one would be like a good. Like, that's probably my expectation for him is, you know, really, really strong score. Who on. On the right year, you know, the stars align and he gets to. No, Granger was in the. We had Granger in the guide. I've always had MPJ as stylistically, and you've seen that a lot with Utah this year, as opposed to like his team last year where, you know, Will Hardy has gone out of his way to sort of of outsource all the things, everything that surrounds him, getting to his shot, the things that were like, long and deliberate and him, you know, you know, stutter ripping a few times and just slowing down the Rutgers offense. It was always just like, what do we need to. We could probably trim that away. And they've done a good job of doing that. With the MPJ thing. I kind of balanced him between Jade McDaniels and MPJ always, because I think that Ace's upside as a defender is pretty high. Like, he's pretty explosive. He can, he can get off his feet really quickly. I just don't think that stylistically he's like mpj. I just don't think that he's the same level of shot maker. That's something that I've come off of. Like, I think he's just not as MPJ is a shot maker. He's. He's a pure shooter, though I think in a way that Ace probably isn't. I don't know how you all feel about that. He's a good shooter. Just. I don't think he's at that level.
- [51:01]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, but if you're kind of MPJ and kind of Jaden McDaniels, aren't you just like the best player in the world?
- [51:10]
Kyle Boone
No.
- [51:10]
Rob Mahoney
Is that not. Is that. Is that not like a Hall of Fame player? Like, if you're, if you have the defensive Jaden McDaniels, but the shooting or at least the scoring of Michael Porter Jr.
- [51:20]
Kyle Boone
I don't, I don't think that he's going to reach the same. I don't know if he's the same level like defensive processor. He's a little like he can kind of like fall asleep in center field looking at the dandelions a little bit at times.
- [51:31]
Rob Mahoney
I think that's where you lost me on the McDaniels.
- [51:33]
Kyle Boone
That's what I'm saying. I just think body type, those types of things. I was also had Rudy Gay in mind a little bit there where you're like, this guy's really talented and it's like he can trick you into thinking that he's capable of like all star level production, but it's kind of like never finds a home. We haven't started on that yet with Ace. I don't know that he's going to end up being a journeyman like that, but he's somewhere in that cluster of players for me still.
- [51:56]
Justin Varior
Well, it's interesting because it almost feels like he's getting shoehorned into more of a Jaden McDaniels track than we previously thought because part of the reason of getting to Utah seemed to be to explore the studio space and quickly he's left with like one open spot. And it is for more of a 3 and D type of guy if they're going to go along with the projected core four that they have there. And so I'm curious how that all works out. But I will say to your earlier points, I have found that his willingness to buy in to be a little bit farther ahead than what you were talking about pre draft. Kyle, if anything like one of the comps I have down here is like, what if a bunch of potential Brandon Ingrams went to a scared straight like jail cell. And like this is what can happen to you if you just take a bunch of stupid mid range jumpers, just step back and play defense.
- [52:44]
Rob Mahoney
I appreciate it. I think like I do think this kind of situation and that like there's really only one gap for you to fill with this roster right now and it is a little more three indeed than Ace Bailey might like is a healthy thing for him like this. This is a good part of the process. If, if it, if he comes out of this with a little more Jaden McDaniels to his game, everyone involved is going to be better off for it. I just don't know how much I believe that scared straightness to like really stick with him or when left his devices, will he always Rudy Gay?
- [53:14]
Kyle Boone
It Up Grim always had a little more. He had a little more handle to him, a little more passing game to him. Chops on that front, I think. But that is a hilarious. You guys are killing it with the.
- [53:25]
Justin Varior
Oh, yeah. All right, let's go to Trey Johnson. Now. I've been impressed by the touch, so I think Khan gets a lot of the pub, and rightfully so about his shooting range. And. But. But I feel like Johnson, especially as the season has gone on, has really displayed the type of shooting touch overall that I think really kind of sold a lot of people. I would say I've been surprised by the passing. He's also like, okay as a defender, especially lately, which I think is something, because earlier at times I feel like he just didn't have any interest in that. I think the finishing is really where I'm concerned here. So I wrote down Bradley Beal, which is kind of an obvious one. But I asked my friend who is a pretty close watcher of the Wizards, and he said this. The floor is Lou Williams and the ceiling is Devin Booker. To call back to Booker. Somewhere in that word cloud, it feels like Trey Johnson.
- [54:20]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know that anyone's floor is Lou Williams. Like, Lou Williams was in the league for a long time doing a very specific thing at a really high level. I. I think there's worlds in which Trey Johnson, like, just doesn't really work where there's like, enough. Yes, he's very good at this very focused thing. But where is the secondary appeal? Will it be as a finisher and a driver? Will the passing evolve beyond just like kind of simple facilitation? Will he become a level of defender that demands that kind of respect, that be like a true two way player more so than just like a shooter who can kind of defend? I think he's in that gray area. And I. I've loved watching him too. I agree that he's come on stronger, very hopeful for who Trey Johnson can be. Hook em. But also, like, I haven't.
- [55:03]
Kyle Boone
Give me a break. You can't claim hook em. You and Justin are the same thing.
- [55:07]
Justin Varior
You can't.
- [55:07]
Kyle Boone
You can't sit it out and then throw the card. I just reject that universally. You're just. You can't do it, Rob, how many times?
- [55:16]
Rob Mahoney
First of all, I can and I will continue to, regardless of what you say.
- [55:19]
Kyle Boone
You're like, when does Texas play? Who's on the team? You're gonna throw hook em at me? Like, like, give me a break. They're not a team.
- [55:26]
Rob Mahoney
They're A group of future alumni. That's the way the University of Texas basketball works.
- [55:30]
Kyle Boone
Good.
- [55:31]
Justin Varior
How many, how many college games did you go to when you were a student?
- [55:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think over four years, I went to two.
- [55:38]
Justin Varior
Hell yeah.
- [55:39]
Kyle Boone
You know, who's even on the team did so.
- [55:42]
Rob Mahoney
So I missed Kevin Durant by a year. Otherwise, I think I would have been locked in the KD version of Longhorns. But, yeah, it was more like DJ Augustine, Damon James, AJ Abrams. I mean, they had some players, they had some decent teams, but no Trey Johnson's. I gotta say none. A little Avery Bradley. I think maybe by. Towards the end, or maybe that was just after I was there.
- [56:02]
Kyle Boone
Okay. Okay. I had Kenneth Farid. That's about the only one.
- [56:06]
Rob Mahoney
Not bad.
- [56:07]
Kyle Boone
He would have left us after a year in the NIL era, but we'll, We're. We're thankful for the experience. He was. He really stuck out. No, in terms of the, the comps, I think you're hitting on it on like the gray kind of nether zone that Trey falls into where it's. He has the personality of kind of a boogie off. The dribble almost triggered my dog sitting next to me, whose name is Boog. I had to tread lightly with that one. But. And he, but he probably is someone who should be his game in the way that he plays. You talk about the finishing and the things, the inefficiencies, the challenges in his game. I think those problems sort of call for him to be kind of a technique wizard in the way that Akan is where, you know, I think that he's going to have to become somebody who's really bought into those details because a lot of his shooting is, like, evasive. You'll see him, you know, back tween, tween, tween. I've become one of those people that says, tween, tween, tween, and. And then he's like hopping to the left and backwards for, like, a harder shot. Like, I think those types of things. You don't see Khan doing those types of things. Like, it's a little more. I'm finding my openings out on the court, but I think he's really capable. I. I had for Trey, Michael Red and Ellen Houston were two I had in the guide.
- [57:20]
Rob Mahoney
Those would be great.
- [57:22]
Kyle Boone
O.J. he, he really reminds me of Michael Red. He always has. OJ man, Michael Red. Shout out NBA Live 2006. He was a killer on that game. Buddy healed a little bit too. Is in there.
- [57:33]
Rob Mahoney
I think that's a wide Range from Michael Red to Buddy healed. Like there's a lot in there. Yeah.
- [57:40]
Kyle Boone
Getting them up. I mean.
- [57:42]
Rob Mahoney
Well, no, I mean one of those guys is getting him up in a way that can like support a playoffish team. And one of them is just like a guy who gets him up and gets benched a lot. So you know, versions of the same thing, but versions with very different outcomes. I ended up with Randy Foy, but good, I guess also tapping into Wizards trauma.
- [58:01]
Kyle Boone
Randy Foy was like a pure pg, right? Like a physical pg.
- [58:05]
Rob Mahoney
Well, okay, so he's definitely wispier for sure. Body type wise does not align with Randy.
- [58:09]
Kyle Boone
I think he's wholly different.
- [58:12]
Rob Mahoney
Walk me through it. Because to me he is.
- [58:14]
Kyle Boone
I'm just trying to give you. No, I mean I said it. I thought he was more of like a physical PG type to get in the mid range and he just couldn't shoot well enough to live that way. Like he wasn't a movement shooter like, like Trey Johnson was he, he was
- [58:27]
Rob Mahoney
a, he became a movement shooter. I'm not talking about who he came into the leaping, but who he ultimately became. And some of that's because of injury with Randy Foy too. But I think they share the same problem, which is those are two guys who are not exceptional NBA athletes who are just bursting by people to get to the rim on a regular basis. They're going to have to get clever with it if they're going to be finishers inside. They're more scorers than passers, but they're also more shooters than all around scorers. And so again it's like where does the all around game come from for, for anyone in Tre Johnson's kind of ilk?
- [58:55]
Justin Varior
Let me ask you this broad question. Are you buying Tre Johnson stock right now?
- [59:02]
Rob Mahoney
How much does it cost? What's going to put me back?
- [59:05]
Kyle Boone
That's important.
- [59:06]
Justin Varior
Yeah, it feels like you can get it on the cheap right now.
- [59:08]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I'd be fine with it on the cheap. Like I'm, I'm totally fine with the Wizards investing in the near term future of his career. I'm just not banking on Trey Johnson to be a star.
- [59:18]
Kyle Boone
I'm buying because I think that, you know, he's still really young. I think that he, he's the type of player that you can kind of stack on existing offense and make it more complicated. And I believe in his shot making and I think once he sort of, I think once he, he starts to kind of weed out some of those things, like some of the dancing, the aimless dancing kind of stuff that he can get into at times. I think he's going to become more of a movement shooter than a, than a, than a gerbil shooter creating for himself. You guys got very serious when I was like quibbling about Randy Foy. Justin, I look like he was like, oh, Kyle's like really starting shit here. I was just like prodding you. You guys were like, oh, Kyle, we
- [59:59]
Rob Mahoney
take your ideas seriously.
- [60:00]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I was honestly thinking about how to transition to the next segment. That's okay.
- [60:04]
Kyle Boone
He was zoning out, thinking about his next sealant foam that he had to buy for his house.
- [60:10]
Justin Varior
No, you get the go board specific one. Come on. All right, on that note, why don't we take a break? We'll come back, do a little lightning round.
- [60:17]
Kyle Boone
It's a season two playoff race with TGL. Presented by SoFi. Sunday at 9pm Eastern. Jupiter Links versus Boston Common Golf Monday at 7pm Eastern. Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club. Tuesday at 9pm Eastern. The Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Lynx. Keep up. It's Golf Watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app. Toogood Co. Coffee Creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. Find the at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.
- [61:05]
Justin Varior
All right, let's get to the remainder of the top half of the draft here. Let's start with the Pels guys. Fears and Queen have to do them together just because they're. They're a duo at this point. Love it or leave it. I have fears as Amonta Ellis, almost like a speedier Ellis. And then I can't get off of Zbo for Queen. I just can't not see him.
- [61:25]
Rob Mahoney
I like both of those. I have for Fears. Aspirational Jeff Teague in like a what do you do with all that speed kind of way. Like if he can Jeff Teague not aspirational. That's what I'm saying. Like, like I'm saying I think Fears needs to aspire to be Jeff Teague. Like that would be. That would be a nice outcome for him figuring out how to manifest all like the in between parts of his game. As far as Queen goes. Like, I keep going back to Shangoon honestly. And I Think it's like Alper and Shangoon with a little less defense and a little more sauce.
- [61:54]
Justin Varior
I just. With fears, the shooting is. Is a problem.
- [61:58]
Rob Mahoney
It's tough.
- [61:58]
Justin Varior
And then you get. Then from there you're like, oh, well, then the size becomes a problem. And so I don't know. I'm a little bit more mixed there. This is a weird time to talk about Queen because he's been diminished in the lineup for all these vets, despite the fact that there's literally nothing else to play for for the Pelicans. They've even talked about, like, what if we make a play in Push? I'm just like, guys, no one is buying this bullshit, so this is a pretty bad time to be upheld. Rookie Optimus Kyle. But who are you seeing from these guys? Anything different from. We talked about Queen and earlier in
- [62:29]
Kyle Boone
the season I would edit yeah, them a little bit. I still. I had him in the. Jared Bayless for fears. Jared Bayless. Devin Harris. Devin Harris. Like, I think Danny and I were talking about that one last fall where it was like he just.
- [62:45]
Justin Varior
Is.
- [62:45]
Kyle Boone
Is he going to ultimately be somebody that you can invest in in terms of this is our guy, this is our starting guy, or is he going to kind of maybe recede to more of this is our, you know, guard that's in the seven, eight kind of spot in the rotation? It's hard to say how this is going to shake out for the pills because he was. He was the guy that I had a little lower and I. I kind of at the beginning of the year felt like that was. That was gonna. That was a miss for me because the way he was playing. But you were talking about the shooting and then the size. Those two things were the worries and I think they have kind of leveled. Maybe I'm somewhere in the middle and I'd split the difference for Queen. I had so much a bonus in there originally because you're trying to think of like connector, big guy, passer types. I would, I would edit it a little bit. Take him out. I had J. Michael Green in. Take him out. I don't know that he has like the pure scoring heart of a Zebo. Like, I think he's a facilitator. He really loves to facilitate. Boris Diao has been my guy for him forever, where it's just like Derek comes and goes and he's. He's very. He can impact winning. I don't know nights where he'll look like the most talented. Boris had nights like that right where he was just like is this guy the best player in the world?
- [63:54]
Rob Mahoney
I think what a lot of these guys in this cloud have in common though is like even Z Bo an incredible mid range player, a great post up guy, good on the offensive glass when he could body you out of the way. But similar to Derek Queen, like not quite as good a contested finisher in the way you want. And like I have a hard time with Queen knowing how much is the fact that their spacing is consistently awful versus the fact that he's not like as big as you might want him to be for that player type. But he has to be a little better on the basket.
- [64:21]
Kyle Boone
Those two together like defensively I think is like a pro is a question too because this is like Derek has defensive questions and big time that's something they're gonna have to answer.
- [64:30]
Justin Varior
I think that's partly the Z Bo thing. Not only just like the size and I think seeks out physicality especially when his confidence is going otherwise he tends to just kind of coast but also just shies away from playing defense at all costs, which is also the Z Bo comp there. All right, when we move along, let's do Jaegor. I asked someone who, who watches him pretty closely. Yeah, they said modern hedo, which I kind of liked. Now the. The split between twos and threes still is quite extreme. Like I've never seen something like this before for a player who's playing this regularly. But I could definitely see the like upright, tall creator who is probably best shooting and orchestrating like that sort of rough outline at the very least gives me a North Star for Jaeger than I've had this season because it really is kind of tough to really carve out what he's going to be if he's going to be this sort of like never walking into the paint sort of guy.
- [65:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I found him to be utterly uncompable for that exact reason. It's like, is he a movement shooter? Is he a primary playmaker? Is he a secondary like wing facilitator? I have no idea what his best use case is at this point. He like as far as he do goes like he do is dancing with the ball a lot at his best, like running heavy pick and roll and the Nets just don't really use Jagor that way yet. And maybe they will in time. But it is a lot of stuff off the ball. The, the shooting is frankly better than I expected it to be this quickly. But as a point guard he has like all of the vision but not a lot of like, the on ball, traditional pick and roll opportunity. So I went with, like, young Joe Ingles. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen, like, the. Like, like, young Joe Ingles, like, fresh out of, like, his professional debut in Australia, where he has that kind of, like, similar wiry frame. I see a lot of that in. In Jaegor, frankly.
- [66:21]
Kyle Boone
Oh, man. If he becomes Joe Ingles, that would be incredible. From the God we had Kyle Anderson, Sean Livingston, Josh, like, post injury Sean Livingston, Josh Giddey.
- [66:30]
Rob Mahoney
Just.
- [66:30]
Kyle Boone
I mean, just a lot of shooters who are not. Not the shooting is something that he's answered. You're absolutely right. Like, if he. If he has time and he just won twos and. And has in times, time to shoot it, he's knocked those down at a better clip. And he has worked hard to kind of do that on his own, from what I. From what I understand. He's an interesting player, though, like you were saying, Rob, where he's some. He's almost like a master accordion player who just happens to be in, like, a metal band. It's like he. Like, he has this.
- [66:57]
Rob Mahoney
Well, Wood, listen, first of all, he
- [67:00]
Kyle Boone
has this incredible Jethro Toll, but, yeah, sort of. Yeah, he's. He has this incredible pick and roll, like, acumen, but he doesn't have the scoring to bolster it in a way that justifies him doing it. Like, he's an incredible processor with the ball, so he's just gonna have to answer those questions inside the paint for. For those other things to. To blossom and pop.
- [67:21]
Justin Varior
Yeah. All right. Colin Murray Bowles. I have obviously, Draymond, just for the physicality, the football center stuff, but I have with Jakob Pearl's touch because, like, his at the rim stuff has been kind of startling. So he's currently within three feet, shooting about 70%.
- [67:40]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [67:40]
Justin Varior
Which is pretty great. And then 56% overall from the floor.
- [67:44]
Rob Mahoney
Well, let me pause you right there. I do think when he does shoot, it's very good. The problem is he has to, like, hold up his finger to the wind. And I'm talking about, like, two feet from the basket, turn around, make sure no one is behind him. Like, we just gotta get CMB shooting layups, like, attempting them on a more regular basis. But I think he can be a really good finisher. I'm not, like, terrified of that prospect, but I just want to see him actually take more shots.
- [68:09]
Kyle Boone
Yeah, he's another one. He's interesting. He has. He has all these great tools that you want to keep on the floor, but You've got to find some way for him to score, to just survive and keep his head above water. Because he's a great defender. He's very smart. One of the smartest defenders in this class. Honestly, the way he sees and feels the game, he's another one. If he has like a 2 Mississippi on a 3, I'm like, that could go in. It might. But if it's a one Mississippi, probably not. Yeah, the Draymond stuff, it's. Draymond is kind of a pre. He's like one of those comp black holes. Like, the sir wrote something great. Like the Draymond generation one time about how we just. We don't know what to do with these guys, so we just kind of lump them in. I mean, Draymond's as good as any. Grant Williams, but Grant could ended up being able to shoot the ball, like, so I don't know. It's hard to find a good one for cmb.
- [68:56]
Rob Mahoney
I went with the Jonathan Isaac we were promised. How do we feel about that?
- [69:00]
Kyle Boone
He's physically really different than Jonathan Isaac. But I mean, but.
- [69:04]
Rob Mahoney
But in terms of like, one carries some of the same caveats. Two, I think, like, Isaac at his best. To me, Colin Murray Boyles just profiles is gonna. He's gonna be one of the best defensive players in the world. I see that as like more of a matter of time. More. More of a matter of when than if is just about everything else. And can he bring that all together?
- [69:23]
Justin Varior
Why don't we move along just to keep this going? Cedric Coward, last one on the actual list. So he was here a couple weeks ago. I was actually startled a bit by how small he was because I think when you just think about his archetype, I was thinking more like six, eight, traditional big wing type. He's actually six, five. And I think part of that is also because he's such a good rebounder and is so good, like, working within traffic, that I thought he was probably bigger than he actually is overall solid. I think he's had a good rookie season. The ultimate question is, like, how much star potential he ultimately has. I think that's just where the conversation naturally led with him because there's just so much juice there that, like, wasn't tapped into in college. Should mention that he's a little bit older than a lot of the guys we're talking about because of his long, winding journey in college. So I ultimately netted out around Mikhail Bridges, which is still a good player and frankly, the type of player the Grizzlies have been seeking for about 10 years. That would have really like, made a difference when they were actually competitive with the Marant and Jaren Jackson crew. But I don't know. I stopped short of him being like an all star level guy. Based on what we've seen at this
- [70:31]
Rob Mahoney
point, I think he could get to occasional all star level potentially as a scorer. And I wonder what the Mikhail Bridges types. Is he wired for that kind of persistent defense and also that kind of off activity? Like, I still see him as being a scorer first and foremost. How effective is up for debate. And so I end up in like Karan Butler kind of territory. Or like Jerry Stackhouse if he woke up feeling kind of stiff that day and wasn't moving with like the full athletic burst. Because there is something that's like, weirdly, it's not robotic, but I think part of the reason.
- [71:03]
Kyle Boone
Sciatic Stackhouse, you know, there's something to that.
- [71:07]
Rob Mahoney
And I think it's frankly part of the reason why the Kawaii comp started happening in the first place with Cedric Coward is like, there's just something stiff about the way he moved that I think makes him a little unpredictable, frankly, but also makes him not as like, limber and explosive as some of the best athletic wings.
- [71:23]
Kyle Boone
I think it comes from the way he carries his shoulders and his arms because, you know, I think he was like six, five and a half barefooted at the combine. But he just. He just has these very broad shoulders and super, super long arms. I think his wingspan's over seven feet. That's. That's where I think some of that came from. That gives him the gate that kind of looks like Kawhi, but you just don't want to cut. You could take the route of saying like an emaciated man's kawhi, but it's like, I don't. I don't totally want to go that. Like, it's like he's pro. It's like sensible Jeremy Grant kind of thing. Because I think he's like a better passer, has better instincts on that front, similar bodies. IO was another guy we had in the Guide, but I don't know the stop. The sort of that space between. Are you willing to go say that he's going to become a star? It's still possible. He's. He's improved so much. His developmental arc suggests that it could happen.
- [72:11]
Justin Varior
The body type is just so weird. Weird because I think any other rookie I'd be like, he could add like 50 pounds, like over the off season because he seems like that sort of athlete and the type of guy who would be willing to do so. But then he's like 22. But then he had this weird path. So, like, is he actually 22? In terms of his development, it's one of the weirder cases. But the odd thing is he has a high floor, I think, is what we're all kind of agreeing upon. If anything, we're just not sure, like, how high the ceiling goes, which is not typically what you'd seen from, like, this sort of, like, mystery man sort of project type.
- [72:42]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. I feel like the players who we have those conversations about in terms of ceiling and floor are rarely scorers first. It's more like guys who bring other sophisticated skills to the table, who work them out in college over time by having consistent reps. And this is just like a huge question mark. Even still, and frankly, I think we'll continue to be one probably for another year or two.
- [73:03]
Justin Varior
All right, anybody else from this rookie class that's caught your eye? I'd say it's like a pretty deep class overall. Probably more in the intriguing pile after we get through these sort of 10 guys that we've been talking about all season, which is already way more than, like, definitely last year, but even in most classes. Rob, who's, like, catching your eye, other than these guys, how many do you want to do? As many as you want.
- [73:27]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, how about Nolan Trore, who's been getting a lot of reps for the Nets lately, I think has looked quite good. I haven't comped as Tyus and Trey Jones, long lost French brother. How do we feel about that?
- [73:40]
Justin Varior
I don't hate it.
- [73:41]
Rob Mahoney
Like, there's something that's like, not enough of a. Of a score in a. In a different way from Jaeger, frankly, but, like, doesn't get the respect off the dribble to really drive a ton of offense. But I think has good instincts for just, like, running basic formulaic stuff and like, keep. Keeps everything movement, it moving, keeps it, like, organized. I think there's a skill set to that that honestly is paid off nicely for the Nets lately.
- [74:03]
Kyle Boone
Kind of the neutral impact, like, not a ton of assists, but not a ton of turnover. You know what I mean? It's like, he's just like, he's a. He's a neutral. You're. You're not. You're not being hurt by putting him out there. Yeah, I think that's interesting. Did you want to do your other ones or did you.
- [74:16]
Rob Mahoney
Do we want to go around the horn a couple of times or what do you. Should I just rattle them off, maybe?
- [74:21]
Kyle Boone
Rattle them off. I don't have. I don't have comps for my sleepers, but I have guys I wanted to mention at least.
- [74:26]
Rob Mahoney
Least. How about let's stick it with the Nets. Danny Wolf, who I think just had, like, the game of his professional life so far against the Cavs. I have Dario Sarich, but I'm not sure which one.
- [74:39]
Kyle Boone
I called him Ivy League Turkaloo. That was my comp.
- [74:43]
Justin Varior
I like.
- [74:43]
Rob Mahoney
I feel like Turko.
- [74:44]
Justin Varior
Yeah.
- [74:45]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, as far as, like, face up bigs who can kind of shoot, but really just want to, like, mix it up and make plays. He's an exciting player. I just don't know how good he is.
- [74:54]
Justin Varior
It's just. This is the problem with the nuts draft class. I'm not completely out on drafting this many guys because as we've talked about in the past, like, you only need one or two of them to pop. But they do at this point seem like they have a lot of backup point guards or just like, weird rotation players. And so right now, you're seeing the growing veins. Yeah. And so it's just like, these are all fine. They're all in the other pile.
- [75:16]
Rob Mahoney
It's a lot of connecting. I'm just not sure where any of it goes. We got Jana, Conan, Niederhauser are now like a beacon on this pod. I gotta say, I just think he's kind of like Derek Lively. Ish. Now, I think there's. They have a lot in common in terms of their body type, in terms of their poise, like playing through contact. I don't know what the present and future of both of those players holds in terms of who projects higher at this point. Lively has all of these injuries to consider, but I'm just, like, thinking about Niederhauser as a. I don't know, like. Like a stable building block in a way. I wasn't even a couple of months ago.
- [75:52]
Kyle Boone
Yeah.
- [75:52]
Justin Varior
They were gonna say, like, I've been thinking about Niederhauser just like, while I'm at the gym.
- [75:56]
Rob Mahoney
Do you not.
- [75:56]
Justin Varior
Just running through my head all day
- [75:59]
Kyle Boone
keeps popping in there.
- [76:00]
Rob Mahoney
I think that part. I think that part was implied. Maxime Renault of the Kings, one of the most productive rookies.
- [76:08]
Kyle Boone
He's on my list.
- [76:09]
Rob Mahoney
Too lankier. Chris Cayman without the doomsday bunker. Does that work?
- [76:15]
Kyle Boone
Jeez.
- [76:16]
Rob Mahoney
Wow. I mean, you gotta cut deep with these guys. We're revising our priors.
- [76:21]
Justin Varior
My favorite thing with the LeBron draft class retrospective, like when you're ever going through like on Wikipedia or whatever, all the, all the listed out, they always highlight the guys that made hall of Fame and made all NBA and All Star. And then you get to Cayman, you see that he made the All Star one year. Like, oh, wow, that era was really fucked, especially in the West. They were really digging into the. The crates in order to find some
- [76:43]
Rob Mahoney
of these guys in particular who are making All Star teams. Just absolutely preposterous stuff. DeAndre Jordan was first team all NBA. Like, what were we doing?
- [76:52]
Justin Varior
Yeah, yeah. Kai, you wanted to go with some of yours.
- [76:56]
Kyle Boone
I had Ray Node. I had, you know, Ryan C. Brenner, I think has been a good rotation. Big. Mentioned him a few times here and there. I think Ugo. Ugo warrants A mention.
- [77:05]
Justin Varior
19 years old.
- [77:08]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [77:08]
Kyle Boone
Young Mo Motor League man. I mean, he's just. We were joking on Twitter the other night about he tried to. I forget who dunked on him, but he just kind of is. I was like, he'll do it again. He'll jump in the way of, of a, of a freight train. He risks.
- [77:24]
Justin Varior
He.
- [77:25]
Kyle Boone
He's not afraid to. To put himself in harm's way. Yakachonis has come on lately. He's been shooting it better, not on high volume, but he's gotten back and looked better. That's been nice to see. That was a little worrisome early on, but he's adjusted and feel a little more optimistic about Yakuchonis.
- [77:42]
Justin Varior
The only guy I wanted to talk about was Nick Clifford, who's having a bit of a moment now that everyone in the Kings organization is on injured reserve. Not that it mattered. Like, I loved how they shut down all of their good players and all of a sudden it's just like something's going to be appreciably different with that franchise. Just Kyle, he's a guy that you earmarked going into the draft and he's been everything, at the very least over the past month where it's just like, like I'm trying to think of the NBA Jam players that had all the bars aligned at the same spot where
- [78:11]
Rob Mahoney
it just feels like.
- [78:12]
Justin Varior
Yeah, it just does like a lot of good things. I was thinking like LaFonzo Ellis or somebody where it's just like solid ass guy who just does everything well. And obviously he's doing a little bit more now that he has the opportunity, but like he's just going to be a rotation player, it feels like, for a decade, because he could just check all these different boxes.
- [78:32]
Kyle Boone
You teed me up for something. I meant to mention when we were talking about fears because I was looking at rookie point guard like pick and roll efficiency, and I just. This just came to my attention. I wasn't going to mention it otherwise. Among the guys in the league who have hit over 200 pick and roll reps this year, who do you think has the highest turnover percentage in the NBA?
- [78:50]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, boy. All players. Not just rookies, all players. 200. Who is. Who is really throwing that thing around?
- [78:59]
Kyle Boone
And the number is going to blow your hair back.
- [79:02]
Rob Mahoney
I'm so concerned. Who you got for us?
- [79:05]
Kyle Boone
It's Russell Westbrook and The number is 32.7% of his pick and roll reps are turnovers over 200. I just. That was just like, oh, my God. So, yeah, your King's comment teamed me up for that.
- [79:21]
Rob Mahoney
Oof me. Clifford would never.
- [79:23]
Justin Varior
Frankly, it does really speak to the fact that the best way to tank is just be in like, institutional decay for the past decade. It's just like you could try all these different things, but actually, what the tanking is just being absolutely terrible at everything.
- [79:38]
Kyle Boone
Imagine having the leash to do. To do that, like, to. It's just. It's baffling. It's baffling, truly.
- [79:47]
Justin Varior
All right, I'm going wrap it there. That's the rookie class. We'll circle back at some point during award season to kind of put a bow on the con and Cooper talk. But we'll be back Thursday as per usual. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Talk to you next next time. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York, Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.