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- [00:00]
A
Foreign it's the Ringer NBA show. I'm Howard Beck. I am a senior writer at the Ringer. With me is Michael Pena, also a senior writer at the Ringer. Pina, it's been three weeks since we got in front of these microphones and yammered about the NBA and still nothing has happened. Like, not, not, not a thing. Are you enjoying Eurobasket, Pina? Are you going deep into. Have you brought like an entire menu of second spectrum observations for Eurobasket? Where are we diving deep today? Into Euro Basket?
- [00:38]
B
You know, you said three weeks. It just, it feels like yesterday when we were hooking up, you know, talking about the best duos. To answer your question, no, I have, I am completely out on Eurobasket. Personally. It's just not for me during this, this downtime. I love basketball, I love Europe, but having that in August at this time of year, I just, I can't do it. I'm sorry.
- [01:04]
A
No, no, no offense to Europe or to basketball or to Euros or baskets or Euro baskets. I just not, I can't. I'm not. So instead, what we are going to do here today, Peter and I are going to do the way too early and possibly way too spicy picks for the 2026 awards. That's MVP on down. So we're gonna get into that, into that in a, in a second here. But before we do, Pina, there was like some news this week all made weirdly by NBA owners and I just thought we should touch on these real quick because why not? Matt Ishbia, owner of the Phoenix Suns, who has presided over, let's just say a strange and not altog but ambitious tenure so far. He saw that ESPN had ranked the Suns very low, prognosticated in their latest prognostications for the coming season that they're going to finish 13th in the west, win just 30 games. Someone tweeted this and he decided to quote, tweet it with the following quote. I'm not worried about what the so called experts think. Mattish Bia tweets quote, they had us as a title contender the past two years and were wrong then. We're focused on making our fans proud by playing great as a team. Da da da da. Matt Ishbia dunking on the experts because they were so foolish as to believe that the super team that he constructed and touted and boasted about did not do as well as they thought or as well as he thought. I don't know what's going on here. Should Matt Ashbia just stop tweeting?
- [02:48]
B
Pina I think there are two types of bad owners in the NBA. There are the types of owners who are completely asleep at the wheel. So you have your Patrick Dumonts, your Gail Bensons, you know and then on the other side of the spectrum you have the egomaniacal hands on the wheel walk ons from Michigan State. And so if I'm ranking like owners by who I would least want to run my favorite team from a fan's perspective it would 1000% be Matt Ishbia. And I just the lack of self awareness with this quote, the total just I mean I yeah, like everyone thought you would be good and you were terrible. So like what does that, how does that prove anything? And then you took Kevin Durant off your team and he was your best player last season and you extended Devin Booker for really no reason and you traded for a center right after you drafted a center with your first round pick, the one pick that you got back for Kevin Durant like it is. I could go on and on and on and on and on. I'm glad that it feels like they're kind of semi on the right path sort of.
- [04:05]
A
Yes.
- [04:06]
B
But I would still be extremely worried I guess is the based on just every time he speaks it just. It doesn't sound good to me.
- [04:17]
A
This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running Brooks reminds us that we're all powered by something from the me time energy of a run after a workday, the electric energy felt on a race day starting line, or the infectious energy of a group run with your friends. Brooks makes gear designed to unleash your energy. Whether it's the feel good distraction freak Ghost, the supercharged Hyperion Max or the fan favorite Adrenaline. Because at the end of the day, one step has the power to change everything. Let's run there. Head to BrooksRunning.com to learn more. If we were going to try to give it Matt Ishbia credit for a couple of things. One, I did give him credit out of the gate for being aggressive and ambitious and being all in. Like I like that it was too all in and too much and the Durant thing cost a lot of draft capital. But hey, it's Kevin Durant. The Beal thing was just absolutely foolish on its face, but I admired the ambition. So I want to give him credit for that. I want to give him credit in the present, the last few months for course correcting finally and saying we went too far, this was not the right thing. We needed to get some draft capital back. We need to pull the plug on this whole thing. But even that's kind of colored by the fact, as you already noted, like, you extended Devin Booker. That might actually really hurt you a few years down the road. But at least they recognized finally that the Beal Durant Booker thing wasn't working. And it's now down to just Booker and they're trying to rebuild around him. All right, cool. Recognize where you are. Take credit for course correcting and saying, you know what, we are taking a step back. What are you doing? Trying to, like, crap on the so called experts who, by the way, I don't think anybody picked the Suns to win the championship after he did all this. Like, I, I think, like, his optimism was probably way beyond all of us out in punditry land. Not, you know, indicated too, by the fact that he's the one who said, was it like a year ago, if you took the other 29 owners, 26 of the 29 would. Would change places with us in a minute or. Which was ludicrous on its face. I don't know. Listen, he's the gift that keeps on giving because whether it's something he's doing with his roster or firing coaches every year or saying silly things, manage to.
- [06:30]
B
Be a thank you.
- [06:30]
A
You're giving us wonderful content, especially in late August when there's nothing else happening except for Eurobasket, which we're not watching.
- [06:37]
B
I say, though I got to say, I'm not giving him. You gave a lot of credit, like, for the ambition. I personally, I'm not giving any.
- [06:47]
A
Well, okay, hold on. You listed the two types of bad owners. Wouldn't you rather have somebody who's at least ambitious as opposed to just, like, asleep at the wheel and not even, like, engaged and doesn't care? He cares. He may care too much. He loves too much.
- [07:01]
B
He definitely cares too much. And my favorite, I think one of my favorite quotes of his was just like, we're bursting through the second apron and we. I, you know, like, people kind of brush that one to the side. That is the most insane in the moment. I was like, that makes no sense. Like, that just doesn't. Like how.
- [07:21]
A
What?
- [07:21]
B
Yeah, I can't even. It's boggling my mind right now as I'm trying to, like, rehash it. Um, there are penalties like, that affect your team's ability to roster build. Like, what do you mean? You're going to burst through this. That doesn't. You can't just outspend the second apron. And he found that out very quickly with everything that he did. This summer. Uh, so I give him credit for taking a step back, but then I take that credit away because he speaks and it's like in his head, I guess he thinks this team is actually going to be still pretty good. So I don't, I don't.
- [07:53]
A
Yeah, it's not great. You know what else isn't great? Getting sued by two of his minority partners.
- [07:59]
B
Yeah, that's not good.
- [08:01]
A
From front Office Sports a couple days ago, two sons, minority owners are suing the teams holding company and majority owner Matt Ishbia, alleging mismanagement, conflicts of interest, and a lack of required transparency from hba. Cool. Great stuff, Great stuff. In Phoenix, also in owner news, the only kind of news going on in late August, Mark Cuban went on show with the. I'm going to screw this up now because I didn't. I did not properly cut and paste here. The DLL S. Mavs podcast. Do they just call it DLLs or. They don't call it like Dallas, but like without the vowels, do they?
- [08:36]
B
I think it's dlls.
- [08:38]
A
Yeah. Okay. This is like the All City Network. Our buddy Mark Stein and a bunch of other wonderful people there had Mark Cuban on their show and Cuban said about selling the Mavericks. And of course this is in the context of obviously the LUCA deal and everything else. Cuban says, I don't regret selling the team. I regret how I did it. Would I still sell the team? Yes. For all the same reasons I've said a hundred times. Would I do it the same way? Absolutely not. I would have put it out to bid, but I didn't do so. So it doesn't matter. So what you're telling me, Mark Cuban now is that maybe the right way to make a major franchise altering deal is. Is to listen to multiple bids and, and market the thing before committing to just one entity. Where have I heard this plot before? Oh, right when Nico Harrison traded LUCA without talking to any other teams and got back a nice lifetime supply.
- [09:36]
B
Not as good of a haul as he should have. Let's just.
- [09:38]
A
I was going to say a lifetime supply of Rice a Roni, but that's like, that's like a 1980s, you know, game show reference that half of our audience just tuned out on. Yeah, like strange, like phenomenal admission by Mark Cuban and credit again. I'm going to start. I'm just going to keep giving credit to people for otherwise silly things. Sure. No credit for being reflective about it and saying he. He regrets it because clearly the consequences of it have been pretty dire for the franchise. That Mark Cuban still owns a piece of and still loves and lives and dies with everything they do. It's obviously been pretty tough on him, but it's. It's his fault for selling to the wrong folks. But man, the parallels between this and the LUCA deal itself are just uncanny. And I don't know if there's any takeaway here other than, yeah, that's unfortunate.
- [10:33]
B
I think just, you know, in listening, I didn't listen to the whole thing, but reading some of the transcript from some of the aggregation, which is never safe. But anyway, his comments about how the NBA sort of is the reason why he is no longer the governor, which is interesting from the perspective of if you look at what happened with the Boston Celtics over the summer where Wick Grosbeck says he's going to be the governor until 2028 when the team is sold to Bill Chisholm. And then when they make the press release, actually, no, immediately Bill Chisholm is the governor. And then after that, the Celtics put out a press release where it's like Wick and Bill Chisholm are holding hands and their wives are in the photo. And it's like, yeah, you know, it's co everything going on right now and that the NBA was like a technicality where there could only be one governor at a time. And I'm personally just. I don't understand this need to just I guess convince the public that you have power that doesn't exist. Like if, if the Celtics wanted to trade Jaylen Brown and Bill Chisholm wanted to do it and Wick didn't guess what? Jaylen Brown's getting traded. So, like, what? There's no co anything. And I think that also translates to what's going to happen with the Los Angeles Lakers. And that's another ship that is yet to sail. But, you know, Jeanie Buss has said that she will be the governor and I, we'll see. It doesn't. It never makes sense to me at all when the person selling the team thinks that they still have the right to make decisions about what they just sold. It just doesn't add up to me.
- [12:24]
A
I haven't seen any clarification yet from the league or if anybody's pursued it. And I have not lobbed them a call this week. It just was not important enough for me to do. So I assume somebody in Dallas or elsewhere would make the call to see if our friend Mike Bass or anybody wants to make a statement about to push back on Cuban. But Cuban is saying the league has Basically tried to indicate that this was all about Cuban's deal with the Adelson family.
- [12:49]
B
That this Adam Silver said that at a press conference.
- [12:52]
A
Yes. And Cuban is saying absolutely, positively. I've got the paperwork to show it. We had a deal. The NBA made us take it out. And I think a lot of this maybe just goes back to Glenn Taylor and the Alex Rodriguez Mark Laurie deal, where it was this gradual handoff, and we saw how. How messy that got, and that just finally got resolved within the last couple of months. And so now, yeah, we've got. Whit Grossbeck wants to hold on. The NBA is clearly. I would just conclude the NBA is not comfortable with. It does not want to allow deals like that. And, yeah, that absolutely has implications for the Lakers deal, where, again, Jeannie Buss has indicated that she was going to still be the controlling entity for a couple of years. It obviously can be really messy. So as a league, maybe you. You know, it's fair to not want that. But it is interesting that that Cuban has kind of been very specific about this. All right, enough owners.
- [13:49]
B
This has been riveting. You know, top of the pod, just.
- [13:52]
A
Owner talk, like it's the only news we have. Pino. We got to take it where we can get it. All right, but it's time for the way too early, way too spicy picks for the 2026 awards. That's MVP, rookie of the year, coach of the year, sixth man, most improved, and Defensive Player of the Year. But we wanted to look a little deeper here. We're looking beyond the obvious. We might be getting a little adventurous here, maybe a little creative, maybe too much so. So here are our rules of engagement that Pina and I have agreed on. You cannot pick anyone for these awards who won or finished second last. Last season. We're trying to eliminate the obvious, folks. And in that same vein, rule two is, we cannot pick anyone who is currently listed as a top three favorite by the odds makers, because that's boring. If we just go like, oh, well, Luca for mvp. Well, yeah, duh. There's. There's an easy pick. Jokic, you know, like, those are the easy, obvious ones. We wanted to dig a little deeper here, not to get crazy. We want these all to be plausible, but they're going to be maybe on the fringes of plausible. Also, we're not doing clutch Player of the year because why?
- [15:00]
B
It's not real. It's just not real.
- [15:02]
A
Yeah, it's not a. It's not a thing. Notes to the aggregators, by the way. These are not like actual, like, prediction predictions. We're not saying these are going to happen, so, like, just chill out and leave us alone.
- [15:12]
B
But if they do happen, feel free to bookmark this episode, go back, give us credit. Thank you.
- [15:19]
A
We'll run victory laps later. All right, so for each category, we're going to do this. We're going to pick two potential winners, each a spicy pick and an insanely spicy pick. And to define spicy, I had to go to the Scoville scale. Are you aware of the Scoville scale, Michael?
- [15:36]
B
I am just from Googling when you told me what we were doing with regards to the scale. So, yeah, I was not aware of it beforehand. No.
- [15:44]
A
You know how much I like to prepare and go down strange rabbit holes. So the Scoville scale measures the heat intensity of peppers. The bell pepper is a zero on the Scoville scale. The most, the spiciest of spicy, the one that will just set your. Your head on fire is the Pepper x, which is 3,180,000 Scovilles or something like that. We're not going that far. That's. That's way too spicy for us. So here's what we're going to do. The spicy pick in each category for us is going to be the jalapeno, which is a 5,000 on the Scoville scale. And the insanely spicy pick we will call the Carolina Reaper. Because I love saying Carolina reaper. That's 2.3 million. That's like five times spicier than a habanero, which is the spiciest thing on the Scoville scale that I've had. Habanero will, will do some damage, but there's like several that are worse, more intense, including the Carolina Reapers. So there's what we got. If you have followed all that to this point. Thank you. Here we go. Mvp. Michael. Let's, we'll, we'll do our jalapeno pick. The semi spicy pick first. Who do you got for your jalapeno pick for mvp?
- [17:01]
B
I'm going with Paulo Bankero.
- [17:05]
A
A very pina pick there.
- [17:07]
B
Yes, I, I'm very high on Paolo this season. I think he's going to do tremendous things. I said on our friend Zach's show at the beginning of the summer that I thought Paolo could make a Cade Cunningham esque leap. And Cade Cunningham is someone who finished on an all NBA team and was on my official MVP ballot. I think I put him fifth based on. Okay, very talented. Former number one overall pick has never quite had the Right Pieces around him that accentuate his skill set. I think right now Paolo has that. I think that the Orlando Magic have expectations. They should win a ton of games. They should be a defensive juggernaut again. And so I think that as their best player, someone who's going to be their leading score most likely, I, I foresee his efficiency going way up. He has not been a particularly efficient player in his career to this point. His on off numbers, especially the lineups that, you know, the nerds like to point out that when Franz Wagner is on the court and Paulo isn't, the Magic are good. When Paolo's on the court and Franz is on the bench, the Magic are bad. I think that things will even out a little bit this year based on how they've adjusted their roster, adding Desmond Bain, Tyus Jones and. Yeah, so I think that we're going to see, you know, a lot of the, the weaknesses and shortcomings that have been, you're able to kind of poke at with Paolo go away this year and they'll be good and so winning good stats, efficiency. I think he'll be a candidate this year. And so he's my, my spicy pick.
- [18:53]
A
Your jalapeno.
- [18:54]
B
My jalapeno.
- [18:55]
A
He's. I like that. I like that pick. I should have actually noted real quickly. So by our rules, the following names had to be eliminated, right? So no Shay, Gil Alexander because he won last year. No Jokic because he was second last year. And then the 2026 favorites, according to the odds makers are Jokic, SGA and Luka. So those were the guys who were off the board. You have already mentioned my jalapeno pick. And that would be Mr. Cade Cunningham.
- [19:20]
B
Oh, I love it. Love it.
- [19:23]
A
Look, he was at the fringes of this conversation last year. He got, I think was tied for seventh in the MVP voting, which meant he got a bunch of. He got I think one fourth place and nine fifth place votes. So he was, he was somebody who got a lot of, of mention just down ballot. He. No one considered him seriously. Obviously there were no first, second or thirds there. But the Pistons won 44 games last season. They pushed the Knicks pretty hard in the playoffs. I think they've got a chance to crack 50 wins or at least approach it. I think they've got a chance to be top four in the East. There's obviously a lot of volatility in the east this season, especially once you get past Cleveland and New York. Cade last season, 26 points, nine assists, six rebounds per game. The only Other guy, I hate to do the stat head thing, but the only other guy who averaged at least 26 plus points and nine plus assists was Jokic. If you ratchet it down to 20 points and eight assists, that group is Jokic, Harden, Lebron, Trey Young and Cade. And he's third in that group in effective field goal percentage behind Jokic and Lebron. Like, he's, he's flirting with some pretty elite territory just in terms of sheer production. The Pistons, like, are going to need to be top four, at least for me. Right? Like, that's, I'm, as you know, I'm a stickler about like the MVPs. Got to be off a reasonably contending team, a top team. So to get the top four, like, yeah, like they're gonna miss Schroeder and Beasley and Tomorrow Jr. Potentially. How much do they get from Duncan Robinson and Caris Lavert in their place? How well do Cade and Jaden Ivy mesh with Ivy coming back from injury? Like, there's some questions. I think Cade needs to get to the line more as, as a lead guard and as a number one offensive option. He ranks pretty low in free throw attempts or free throw rate among the elite scorers in the league. So he's got to, he's got to do a little bit more there. But like the Pistons, he should put the Pistons in position to be top four. And the Pistons, with everything else they've got, should put him in position to get into the conversation. All right, that was my jalapeno pick. Here's where things get really spicy. Your Carolina Reaper pick for mvp, Michael Pena is.
- [21:36]
B
Oh, man, I'm going. Kevin Durant.
- [21:40]
A
Oh, I thought about him. He was on my list.
- [21:43]
B
It shouldn't be a Carolina Reaper, but it is. I mean, this guy is, what, 37 years old, didn't qualify for all NBA last season because he didn't play in enough games. Played 62 games, I believe. Still awesome. He was the best. I know it doesn't mean anything, but he was the best player on the Phoenix Suns last year, in my opinion, and still really efficient. Still able to score Average 25, 26 points a game in his sleep. And I guess the case here boils down to, not to be too reductive about it, but best player on the best team. And I think that the Houston Rockets have a chance to be first in the Western Conference this season. I think Kevin Durant will be seen narratively and probably substantively as the reason for it. The guy who got them over the hump who their, who's their go to scorer in crunch time and just, you know, he's a first ballot hall of Famer, one of the greatest basketball players who's ever lived, and he's only won once. And I, you know, I don't think this is going to happen. That's why this is the Carolina Reaper. But if you are the best player on the best team, you get consideration. That's just kind of how it goes with voters. And so I think that, that from that point of view he has some type of super duper outside shot.
- [23:09]
A
Well, and think of it this way too, and it was why I considered him as well for this. If the Rockets are going to be as good as we think they could be, right? Top two, three teams in the West. One of the main threats to the Thunder, it's probably going to be because he stayed healthy and played 65 plus. So like we've got a chicken and egg thing here. Like, if the Rockets are really that good, especially in the regular season, it's going to be because he played a lot of games and performed at a Kevin Durant like level, in which case almost automatically now you're considering him for the award because the stats are always going to be there. He just needs the games played and for the Rockets to be a top team. And you know, those, those things are hand in hand. So I, it's, it's funny because on the one hand, yes, these are our spicy picks and that one feels it especially because at his age, like, I don't think we've ever had an MVP at, what, 37. I should have looked that one up, but I'm pretty sure we haven't. So it's, it's highly unlikely. But he's a great candidate. I'm glad you're sitting down because my Carolina Reaper pick is your. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a little afraid of, of the peanut reaction here, but at the same time you're gonna go, yep, yep, yeah, that tracks. How about Joel Embiid Bad?
- [24:33]
B
I mean, you know how sad it is that he's the Carolina Reaper pick. Like someone who actually won this award was it two, three years ago, like.
- [24:41]
A
But this is, this is why there's a. Listen, all I, all, all we need here is the, the window of plausibility. And I, to be very serious here, I'm not doing this just for kicks. His last full season, he was in fact the MVP in 20, 22, 23, just two short years ago, maybe two long years ago. The following season, in 39 games before getting hurt, he was averaging 34.7 points, 11 rebounds and 5.6 assists, better than his MVP season. Joel Embiid was absolutely destroying the league in his first 39 games of the 20, 23, 24 season. Again, not that long ago. And then last season, of course, 19 games on a bad knee, still on a bad knee. Averaged 23.8 points, 8 rebounds, 4 and a half assists. Like he was still a force. Here's, here's what I'm going to say. He did not tear his acl. He did not rupture his Achilles. He's not had, to our knowledge, major reconstruction or replacements or whatever. He's had some tune ups. The first one didn't go well enough, apparently, and now he's had another. I know there's some clouds around whether or not he's actually going to be ready to start the season, but here's what we know. Joel Embiid, when healthy, big fat asterisk, absolutely is a incredibly dominant player who was MVP his last full season. If we're going to go Carolina Reaper, insanely spicy pick for mvp, there's a, there's a, there's a path here. He plays. It's the same thing as with, as what we just said with Kevin Durant, who's like six, seven years older. If Joel Embiid is healthy and plays the requisite number of games, 65 plus, it probably means the Sixers have had a great season. Then by virtue of him having played all those games and him still being him, if, if he's not him, he's probably not playing the 65. So there you go.
- [26:34]
B
What's, what's spicier than Carolina Reaper? Was there another pepper?
- [26:39]
A
There were two on the Scoville scale. Dragon's breath.
- [26:42]
B
Okay.
- [26:43]
A
And Pepper X.
- [26:44]
B
Okay. I like Dragon's breath. That's a Dragon's breath pick right there.
- [26:51]
A
I mean, you know, we said we wanted to get spicy, so, you know, I'm, I'm doing what I can. I'm also trying to keep Cliff producer Cliff healthy, although he's just happy. But he's just giving me an SMH in the, in the chat here, so.
- [27:06]
B
Oh, man.
- [27:07]
A
I guess I'm, I'm more optimistic about Cliff's team than he is. Other guys I did consider, by the way. Anthony Edwards is an obvious one. Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson was another one I gave serious weight to, but it didn't feel spicy enough. Like, I think Jalen Brunson actually Like, he's, he's, he's, he's not quite at like bell pepper level here, but he's like, he was like too plausible for this exercise.
- [27:28]
B
I had, I had ant as well. And that is someone who I would like legitimately pick to win mvp. So that's why I didn't feel it was spicy enough.
- [27:37]
A
I also considered Steph Curry.
- [27:40]
B
That's definitely not spicy enough. Yeah.
- [27:42]
A
No. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, listen, I'm trying to follow my own rules here. All right, let's move on to coach of the year. So the list of guys we could not pick for coach of the year. Prediction. Last year's winner, Kenny Atkinson. Last year's runner up, J.B. bickerstaff. The 2026 favorites according to the oddsmakers. Jamal Mosley. Quinn Snyder, David Adelman. So those guys redacted. Who's your jalapeno pick for 2025, 26?
- [28:14]
B
Eric Spoelstra.
- [28:16]
A
Ooh.
- [28:18]
B
You know, widely considered one of, if not the best coaches in the NBA has notoriously never won this award. People do not think that the Miami Heat are going to be very good. You included Howard. Right. You're not high in the Miami Heat this season. And I think that they will be pretty good. I think that they will be a top six team. I like their roster quite a bit, especially after the Norm Powell trade, acquiring him for Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson, basically nothing. I don't think this is a perfect team, but I think this is one that allows SPO to inject some creativity with their versatility and their overall talent. I think that if you can get a lot out of Andrew Wiggins, he's going to be a pivotal player for them and I think Bam will bounce back. I think Tyler Herro could have another all star esque season. I just, I think there's a lot here to work with and there's no more Jimmy Butler related distractions. So in a down Eastern Conference and this award is all about expectations, the fact that not a lot of people are high on them. I think they can exceed a lot of those expectations and be pretty good. And I think people will be looking to give Spolstra credit in the form of some hardware and this is the season to do that. So I think that's who I'm going with.
- [29:46]
A
No, I like that one, by the way, now that I'm looking at it, it's kind of strange that among the favorites from the odds makers that Udoka, Imi Udoka is not on there. And like I considered him but again, was not spicy enough for this exercise. My Coach of the year jalapeno pick like yours is based on the premise of Coach of the Year often goes to somebody whose team overachieved in the eyes of all of us, the pundits and the public. And another team that is expected to have a lackluster season. I'm going with Rick Carlisle. Expectations are just rock bottom without Halliburton for the season. After the Achilles, obviously they decided not to resign Miles Turner. So now you're missing, you know, two anchor pieces, including your best player and your best big. Not. Excuse me, not your best big, but a very important big. Their best biggest is Pascal Siakam, who's still there. So here's the case. The Pacers always have a knack for overachieving. They do still have an all Star in Pascal Siakam. They've got a bunch of scrappers. They've got Nemhardt, they've got T.J. mcConnell. They've got Neesmith. Matheran is going to be plugged in. Carlisle has already said this publicly. Matheran is going to take the starting job in Halberton's absence. He could really blossom. We know the talent is there. He's got to find the right balance between his aggression and. And, you know, attacking versus, you know, keeping the ball moving and playing the Pacer style. But he could really blossom. They're over under 39 and a half. Like, I think they can. I think they can meet or exceed that. Carlisle, if they have the kind of season that I think they could have, he's going to get credit for holding them together, for developing the youth. Maybe there's even a little bit of a halo effect from their unexpected finals run. Right. This is already the team that overachieved to the highest degree by making the Finals. And while that should not have any bearing on this coming season, sometimes those. Those things linger a little bit. So Carlisle is my Jalapeno pick for Coach of the Year.
- [31:53]
B
I like that a lot. I kind of considered him. I didn't think it was spicy enough, even though I. I'm not super high on the Pacers, but I can actually see the Pacers definitely exceeding expectations. And if they do, I think Rick Carlisle will get a lot of credit for it because he's proven time and time again to be this adaptive basketball savant. And I think their style of play will change this year in a lot of ways without Halliburton, and they'll adapt. And so, yeah, I like that pick. I like that pick a lot.
- [32:27]
A
I'm very curious, actually, to see how their style of play holds up right where it's like. Like, this is what we want to be and who we are. And it's partially because they had Halliburton, but it's partially just because, like, this is. This is how you make the most of everybody. Right? Like, make quick decisions with the ball and, like, Halliburton sets the tone. And when you don't have him, you know, are Nemahard and McConnell going to be enough of a, you know, kind of a North star to keep that going? But it's going to be fascinating. Your Carolina Reaper pick for coach of the year.
- [32:53]
B
Man, this was tough because I. I didn't know how crazy to get and the name that I wrote down and that I was gonna go with this whole time. I'm like, that's too boring. I'm not. I'm not. I'm pivoting already from it. And I'm going with. I can't believe I'm gonna say this. I'm going with Charles Lee.
- [33:16]
A
Wow.
- [33:16]
B
With the Charlotte Hornets.
- [33:18]
A
Did not see that coming.
- [33:19]
B
I look at the Charlotte Hornets. Total mess of a roster makes absolutely no sense. A collection of young, talented players who in a lot of ways do not compliment one another. And I think this roster will look different after the trade deadline, maybe significantly. The front court is unspeakably terrible, and yet they have lamelo ball talent. They have Brandon Miller, who I think will be pretty good this year. They have Colin Sexton, who, not to step on anything, but I considered for a future award in this exercise. I like a lot of their guards. I like a lot of their ball handlers. I think that con can apple could have an impact right away as a rookie. And I think that Charles Lee is a good coach. And even though they aren't, I struggle to kind of even know if they want to win this year, but I think that they could actually make some noise a little bit, maybe. I just think the east is so bad that there's going to be, like, nights where, you know, the Hornets are playing like, the Wizards, like, nine times this season or so, and they just, you know, I don't know. And so we'll see, but this was a totally crazy pick. I'm sorry. Like, this is not going to happen. Shout out to Charles Lee. I think he's a great coach. Just kind of want to put my. My flag in the sand here as someone who's like, down with what's happening in Charlotte. Even though I don't yet know what is happening, but I like. I like what I see.
- [35:04]
A
No, but that. I think that's within the spirit of the exercise here. Right? Like, there's a. There's a world where I don't believe in this world because I don't believe in lamelo ball. But there's a world where things break, right? Young guys take a step forward, they make a smart trade here or there in season. You know, you make a run at 500 when we all had you buried in the bottom three of the conference, right, and suddenly you're getting Coach of the Year recognition. Maybe down ballot, maybe not top, but like, no, that's. That's. I think that's within the spirit of this exercise, as is my pick for the Carolina Reaper edition or category within Coach of the Year. Glad you're still sitting down. I swear, this is not shtick. What about Nick Nurse? So listen, can I just say before.
- [35:57]
B
Before you begin, when I first texted you about this whole thing as an idea for a podcast, my example was for like, this is too far. Don't do this. Was Nickners for Ghost.
- [36:15]
A
Was that in the text?
- [36:17]
B
No, I thought about sending it and then I deleted it. So go on. So that's kind of where my head's at, but go on, go on.
- [36:24]
A
I'm glad I producer Cliff is now accusing me of trolling. Listen, if I'm going to say that Joel Embiid is a plausible ish, albeit Carolina Reaper pick a plausibleish MVP candidate in this exercise, then it follows that Nick Nurse would be a candidate for Coach of the Year. Because if. If Embiid has stayed healthy and performed at an Embiid level, the Sixers are back to where they should be, somewhere in the top echelon of the East. And as a result of that, Nick Nurse comes storming right back into Coach of the Year conversations because he molded these guys back into who we thought they should be. He's been. I believe he's been Coach of the Year before. He's. He is an NBA champion NBA championship coach. Yes, there was a ton of talent here. Big fat asterisk when healthy Tyrese Maxey, a healthy Jared McCain who was a front runner for Rookie of the Year last season before he got hurt. We don't know what. What VJ Edgecombe will bring or how much they will use him out of the gate. But Maxi McCain Edgecombe, a presumably resigned Quentin Grimes, if all the restricted free agents ever, you know, sign their. Their qualifying offers or come to terms, I think everybody Figures Grimes is going to be back there a presumably healthy at some point Paul George and a healthy embiid like you. Again, I wrote this recently. We did our zags a week or so ago on the ringer.com and my, my, my off season zag was oh hey, maybe the Sixers are going to be a top four team in the East. I'm just sticking with this. I swear. This again, this is not a bit. I believe in this so I might as well hit all the, the different categories within it. I don't think it's crazy. I do think that Nick Nurse is, is there were signs that there were other issues there chemistry wise with that team both in the locker room and maybe to do with coaching too. He can be tough and I'm not saying this is a clean pick, but that's why it's the Carolina, Carolina Reaper pick. So and by the way like once you eliminate the guys that we agreed to eliminate based on the rules, which was five different coaches like some of the others I considered were too obvious. Right. Udoka Imidoka we mentioned kind of too obvious. Mike Brown's a really good one but again like I don't think that's quite spicy as a, as a pick. Like if the Knicks are even a little bit better than last season or if their offense takes a big leap if he makes better utilization of towns and bridges and we see just some more dynamism with it. Like there's a, like Mike Brown's not a crazy pick there. Mitch Johnson's another one I thought about in San Antonio, Isolo in Memphis. I mean spicy ish but not Carolina Reaper spicy.
- [39:26]
B
Can I tell you who I wrote down for this?
- [39:29]
A
Yeah, I was dying to know.
- [39:31]
B
No you weren't. Chauncey Billups.
- [39:35]
A
Ooh, yeah.
- [39:36]
B
I just think that's a good one too. Yeah, I think he has now he signed the contract, proven that he's a, he's a, he's a good coach. They'll have some more adults in the locker room next year. I think at the same time this award is so steeped in expectations and people don't think that the Portland Trailblazers, rightfully so are going to make, get, get a play in spot in the Western Conference and if they were to do that or you know, 10 9th seed somehow then Chauncey Billups name I think would deservedly be in the conversation. But at the same time I don't think that that is so crazy. Maybe I'm, I don't even know but I kind of Like, I kind of like what's. I like the pieces in Portland, and it just. I don't think it would blow me away, especially how they. With how they play defense.
- [40:27]
A
Yeah, I'm with you. All right, moving on. Rookie of the Year. So the. We have to worry about anybody from last season because you can't repeat as Rookie of the Year, but the ones we had to eliminate based on them being favorites for the award, according to the oddsmakers. Cooper Flag, obviously. Dylan Harper, Trey Johnson. So those are the only three names off the board. But this created another complication. Michael Pina. Because if we're not going to pick the three favorites, and you know that Rookie of the Year is nearly always somebody who was chosen in the top 10, it really narrows the options for us to pick to make spicy picks for Rookie of the Year here. Like, super spicy to pick a second rounder or a late first rounder. But like, that. That's almost like. That's beyond spicy. That's like, just, like, ludicrous and stupid because it doesn't happen. Speaking of which, quick trivia note. Nearly all Rookies of the Year in the history of this award have been top 10 picks since 2000. Since the year 2000, there have only been two guys who won Rookie of the Year who were chosen outside of the top 10. Can you name them?
- [41:36]
B
Malcolm Brogdon.
- [41:38]
A
Yes. 36th overall pick in 2016.
- [41:43]
B
Oh, my God, my brain.
- [41:49]
A
Like Brogdon, a primary ball handler who's had a lot of injuries, in fact, no longer in the league, but.
- [42:00]
B
I.
- [42:00]
A
Think they might have even crossed paths with one team.
- [42:04]
B
Just tell me this is not riveting podcasting for listeners.
- [42:08]
A
Long silences. Never good podcasting. Michael Carter Williams, 11th overall pick in 2013.
- [42:15]
B
Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, that was on the. Okay, cool. I'm really not going to lose sleep over that one. Yeah, don't. You shouldn't.
- [42:22]
A
You shouldn't. But I mean, the real point is that those are the only two guys, and one was just outside the top 10 at 11. The other one, you know, Brogdon won because our friend Joel Embiid had his rookie season cut to, like, 23 games or whatever. Brogdon, not one by default. He had a really good season, but he wasn't your traditional Rookie of the Year, So a Rookie of the Year outside of the top 10 is extraordinarily rare. So who you got for your Jalapeno pick? With all that said, honestly, with everything.
- [42:52]
B
You said, I felt like if you weren't picking Cooper Flag for this. It's spicy. You know what I mean?
- [42:58]
A
Spicy. That's. That's fair. But we did eliminate.
- [43:01]
B
Yes.
- [43:02]
A
Dylan Harper and Trey Johnson, also based on our rules.
- [43:05]
B
Also, like, why. Why Dylan Harper? I know he's the second pick, but, like, rookie. He's going to be with Dear and Fox. I don't know. Whatever.
- [43:12]
A
Anyway, I know weird.
- [43:14]
B
Derek Queen.
- [43:16]
A
All right, hit me.
- [43:18]
B
So he had wrist surgery. Got injured. Good start.
- [43:22]
A
There's a good start.
- [43:23]
B
Got injured at summer league. Did you know he averaged nearly six turnovers a game in the three games he played at summer league? Yeah, I'm really, really building my case here for rookie of the year.
- [43:39]
A
You looked up summer league stats. You've already gone the extra mile.
- [43:42]
B
So he'll miss the start of the season. I think Joe Dumars recently said. And he's on a scene. He's on a team with Jordan Poole now and Zion Williamson so far, until further notice.
- [43:56]
A
This case gets better all the time.
- [43:57]
B
I guess I picked him because he's a scorer, so he will score. He'll. He'll put the ball in the basket, which is the most important thing when it comes to Rookie of the year, so long as he's on the court. And I think more functionally, like, the New Orleans Pelicans have so much equity in this person to do well, to save face, that he will have every opportunity this year to get minutes, get opportunities, get touches, get shots. They want him to play, like, extraordinarily well. So that's what that was in my head when I was like, who could actually, like, do something this year that people aren't really expecting? Like, I think, like, he is. He is. I mean, I don't need. We need to set this up for context with what I'm saying. But the New Orleans Pelicans traded away a pick that they had that belonged to the. Whose pick was it? The. It's a swap between the Bucks and the. It was like their own pick.
- [45:06]
A
It was one of those super complicated things with a thousand conditions on.
- [45:09]
B
Yeah. But I think the bottom line is, like, it's their own pick and they're going to be bad. So, yeah, unprotected to the Atlanta Hawks and one of the worst trades you'll see this side of Luka Doncic getting moved, and it was embarrassing. And so the way that you kind of shield yourself from the embarrassment is you. You justify the move by saying, even though it wouldn't even be justified, but Derek Queen being good would help. So I think that that is where my head was at when I was doing that.
- [45:38]
A
This, there's, there's an investment there. They, they need him to, to play and they need him to to vindicate them.
- [45:43]
B
Precisely.
- [45:44]
A
I agree. Absolutely. My jalapeno pick, Ace Bailey. I, I, I don't know that anybody's expecting much from Ace Bailey. But here's the thing. The Jazz have nothing. They've got Lowry, Marketen and like just guys. He's a pure scorer. He can shoot, he can get to the rim. He seems to not lack confidence. They're badly going to need some somebody other than Markkanen has to score. They will badly need scoring. He will get every opportunity in the world. They don't need to be good. They don't plan to be good. They don't want to be good. So if he's scoring a ton with low efficiency, they won't care. You can score with low efficiency and still win rookie of the Year there, there's surely examples of that in the past and you definitely don't need to be on a winning team. So yeah, I just think the opportunities there Rookie of the year is often going to be the guy who just got a lot of usage dedicated to him and just had the opportunity to make his mistakes grow but put up some numbers. So not the spiciest. That's my why he's my jalapeno pick. But but spicy ish and as you said given that Cooper flag is the overwhelming favorite. Everybody's spicy after him. Who's your Carolina Reaper?
- [47:07]
B
I actually like flipped a coin, figurative coin between my Carolina Reaper and my spicy in my jalapeno because I again I just think that everything is equally spicy if you're not picking Cooper. But my pick here for Carolina Reaper is Igor Gmon, Brooklyn nets number 8th overall. He was my favorite player in the draft in the in his class. I think he will have free reign to do to play how he played in college with the Brooklyn Nets. For for that is run a ton of pick and roll, make flashy highlight plays, show off his vision, become a fan favorite. Give the Brooklyn Nets please God, as someone who lives in Brooklyn and goes to Nets games, please make the Barclays center an exciting place to watch basketball games. Potentially at least like give us the hint of hope of someday doing that. But I just think he's super fun and watching. You know I didn't watch a ton of or any college basketball last year but in the process of just kind of your pre draft process of just looking at these guys, his game I thought was the. The one that I just was most enamored with. And then you add to the fact that again, summer league, whatever. But his three point shot was this big question coming in and everything about it looked great, including the fact that he was hitting shots off the dribble. So I don't know if he worked on it between, you know, ending up at BYU and going to Las Vegas, but if he can shoot too, I think he'll have numbers. And the only thing kind of keeping it back from actually happening, I think, is the fact that he plays for a team that should be the worst in the NBA this season. So, yeah, that's kind of. That's. That's my pick.
- [49:08]
A
Or at least competing with Ace Bailey's Jazz for worst team in the NBA.
- [49:11]
B
Fair, Fair, Fair.
- [49:13]
A
So damn you. This is the first time we've actually overlapped.
- [49:17]
B
Oh, wow.
- [49:17]
A
Demon was actually my Carolina Reaper pick as well. Maybe it's because we both live in Brooklyn and we both go to a lot of that's games and we're both kind of.
- [49:23]
B
We're crossing our fingers. Yeah.
- [49:25]
A
Is there anything we're seeing in our backyard? Because we're going to be there regardless. Excuse me. Our buddy J. Kyle Mann had regaled me with. With tales of Demon when I had him on the pod back in like last November, December or something. So I've been intrigued by him even as late as I think it was. Like, it was. It was during the pre draft process or, excuse me, during the run up to the draft itself. I think Kyle was still saying he wasn't just the best passer in the draft, but the best passer to be in the draft in years.
- [49:57]
B
That's because I was DMing Kyle clips of Yeoman constantly being like, why is this not the number one pick? And he was like, please stop. Lose my number.
- [50:09]
A
By the way, I'm glad you got the pronunciation down for this podcast because I'm just going to butcher the shit out of it repeatedly here. Listen, he's.
- [50:17]
B
He.
- [50:18]
A
He probably won't score a lot, but someone's got to set up Michael Porter Jr. A presumably resigned Cam Thomas. I mean, nobody needs to set up Cam Thomas. Just give, just give him the ball and get out of the way. Cam will do the rest himself. Nick Claxton. Like, they've got guys on this team who can do things with the ball, who can score, and they do need someone to facilitate. And I know that they have now accumulated a bunch of young pseudo point guards, including, say his name, Joman.
- [50:47]
B
Dioman.
- [50:47]
A
Diomen. I don't see an O in there anywhere. But someone's, someone's got to keep the offense humming and get the assists. Dare I say to be. Apologies producer Cliff somewhat Ben Simmons. Like, I mean, a younger Ben Simmons when he actually played basketball and was, you know, but you know, Ben Simmons at his best was never a score. He just, he was just super smart, intuitive with the ball in his hands and set up everybody else. Like there's a role to be played there. The Nets are going to, you know, play him regardless, I assume. Like, what else do they have? So, yeah, the outline is there potentially there. Anybody else you considered? I was, I was, I thought one of us might go. Yong Hansen, another name. Yeah. Screw up, but. But you know, he was outside the top 10. Obviously. I thought about fears, but there just weren't a lot of like great options.
- [51:43]
B
But I thought about Edgecomb. Yeah, I think he will play for the Sixers. I think he will be in their rotation and he gives them two way, just athleticism that they don't really have on their roster. But like if Paul George is healthy, if Embiid is healthy, he's also competing with Maxi for touches and McCain for touches. So I couldn't, I don't know that one. It's like, it's a little funky because I also think that those guys won't be healthy. So he will put up numbers, you know, so that's a tricky one. But I think he will be very, very good.
- [52:21]
A
I do everything I can to improve producer Cliff's mood and you just like crap all over. Like nobody's going to be healthy. Even the young guys aren't going to be healthy. Like you just so dour. Sixth man, sixth man of the year. The guys we could not pick, current 6 Man of the year title holder Peyton Pritchard and runner up Malik Beasley. Off the board, 20, 26 favorites were Peyton Pritchard. Again, weird. DeAndre Hunter and Nas Reed. So there are the names we could not pick. Michael Pina, who is your Jalapeno pick for six man of the Year?
- [52:59]
B
I went with Lonzo Ball was on.
- [53:02]
A
My list, did not pick him.
- [53:05]
B
We just learned that, Max. I don't know if we just learned this, but I just learned that as I wake up for my two month hibernation that Max Drew will miss, I think three to four months.
- [53:18]
A
I think we're talking like December maybe or January potentially.
- [53:21]
B
Yeah. So I don't think that Lonzo will start, but I do think that I think that Hunter, they'll probably start Hunter, I would imagine. And, and I just think Lonzo can give them. First of all, he impacts the game in myriad ways. And I've always wanted the sixth man of the year to be perceived as more than an off the bench bucket getter. Like, no disrespect to that player type, but I think that someone like Alex Caruso going to the Oklahoma City Thunder, he was my pick, my actual pick in predicting last year's award, I just think, like, if you can bring.
- [54:00]
A
You.
- [54:00]
B
Know, just be the Swiss army knife offensively, but then bring so much else to the table on the other side of the ball. And I think that Lonzo is a very smart, very crafty defender. And if he can stay healthy, and I think he should in this, this limited role, with his minutes being down and kind of pressure being off, I think he can have the same type of impact that Caruso did last year. But I think that he's also someone who will have the ball in his hands a little bit more. So you'll get the assist numbers and I think the offense will absolutely flourish when he's on the court because he can shoot. He's a. Caruso is a very good shooter, but I think Lonzo ball is a better shooter. And so, yeah, this was my pick. And Cleveland's going to be awesome. And I think that when you win, people pay attention to you and so this could happen. We'll see.
- [54:52]
A
You know, unofficial rule for six man, it's got to be a top tier team. Like, no. No one's winning six man of the year off of like the eighth seed. Right. So you're automatically getting a huge boost too, if you're a serious contender as the Cavs are. I like that pick. I thought about him too. I just wasn't sure, like, how many minutes is he actually playing? And the numbers won't be like, big. Right. But he could become like a plus minus darling, right? An on off darling.
- [55:16]
B
Yeah, it's yes.
- [55:17]
A
Where the advanced stats just show like how much he, he stabilizes and benefits the second team. I could see it. I like it. I like to pick. I, being an old school grizzled vet with grays in my waning beard, went with the bucket getter. I went Jordan Clarkson of the Knicks.
- [55:41]
B
Oh, wow.
- [55:45]
A
Hear me out, hear me out. Look, they, they badly need bench scoring and bench playmaking. I know the scoring is going to be more than the playmaking in Jordan Clarkson's case, but Jalen Brunson badly needs somebody to do something with the ball so that Jalen Brunson doesn't have to do it for quite the load that he's had. And even the transition from Tibs to Mike Brown might alleviate some of that. Right. You need to have a coach who's willing to go to the bench a little bit more. It also helps the Knicks have improved their bench, so that's not just, you know, a knock on Tibs. Like the Knicks improved their bench, I believe, with, with Clarkson and Yabaselle. I think Clarkson would have been a bad fit with Tibs based on his profile, but I think Mike Brown will give him a little bit more latitude to just do what he does best, and he can do a lot with the ball in his hands. His efficiency has been in decline the last couple of years in Utah, but, I mean, I don't know how to evaluate. He's not that old. You can't evaluate properly, anybody, especially a flawed player. You put a flawed player on a horrific roster, you're like, everybody's less efficient. Everybody's. And the me first tendencies just get amplified because it's like, well, we're not winning anyway. I might as well get mine. I think, on a team with expectations, and boy, do they have expectations. A team with expectations and great talent around him, he'll, he'll share the court at times with Brunson, I'm sure with Towns, with some of the other starters like this, that stability and that structure will make Jordan Clarkson, I think, a more effective and efficient player. And if the Knicks are as good as we all think, they're going to be top two in the east, potentially number one team in the East. And if he's putting up usual Jordan Clarkson type numbers, you know, 14 to 16 points, five, six assists, maybe off the bench, maybe that's a little optimistic for him at even decent efficiency, like, he'll, he'll, he'll get a lot of notice. I don't, and especially as my jalapeno pick, I don't, I don't think that that's, I don't think that's crazy.
- [57:48]
B
I, I had the, this was the category that I had the most honorable mentions for, and he honestly didn't even cross my mind.
- [57:58]
A
Wow. I'm sorry. Let the record reflect Michael Pena hates Jordan Clarkson.
- [58:03]
B
My God, I, I, I do not hate Jordan Clarkson. I'm, I'm rooting for him. I think, I think he should have a fine season in New York, but I, I, I just don't think the numbers will be there for him because it's I don't. You know, I. I foresee Mike Brown Staggering Cat and Jalen Brunson, and I do think that there will be more ball movement than last year, but at the same time, you still have Mikhail Bridges, who wants to eat. You still have OG and an obi, so I don't know. We'll see. Yabu Sally would have been a fun pick, I got to say, but sure.
- [58:40]
A
Yeah. All right, Give me your Carolina Reaper.
- [58:43]
B
Okay, so this is definitely not going to happen for a variety of reasons, but I'm going with Kristaps Porzingis with the Atlanta Hawks. And the first reason why this might not happen is he might start at center for the Atlanta Hawks. So I don't, like. I don't know how they're going to look.
- [59:01]
A
Minor glitch. Yeah.
- [59:02]
B
There's been some speculation that it would be Oneeka Okongwu, who played fantastically down the stretch last year and who I like a lot and is a little bit more, I guess, dependable than. Than. Than KP is at this point in his career. I think if you have KP in a more tapered role minutes down, that obviously helps his body, lets him play more, lets him qualify for an award like this. And just like, I think when is. When he's on the court, the Atlanta Hawks should just be awesome. They should. Their offense should be incredible. It should be, you know, ranking near the top of the top, like, offensive rating should be top five. When he's on the court, frankly, like, there's really no excuse for it not to. Defensively, I think it'll be a little bit harder for him than it was in Boston, maybe. But at the same time, when he's on the court and Trey Young is off the court, there's still so many really capable, awesome perimeter defenders, wing defenders who can help him out in the pick and roll, stay attached to their guy if they're going over and he's dropping, et cetera. So kp, you know, like, just impact. I don't know if the numbers will be there, which is why I don't think that he will actually win this award. You're not going to play through him. But as someone who just makes life easier for everyone else and who should enable incredible offense when he's on the floor, should be really efficient. Yeah, I'm going with my guy, Kpop.
- [60:37]
A
No, I like the pick. And if the Hawks are as good as everybody thinks they might be, potentially top four in the east, he'll get a lot of notice. Assuming he's actually Coming off the bench, this was, I mean, this was tough. Six man is tough. Anyway. We're still like some of these guys. We don't even know if they're going to be six man. And then, you know, like some of them are competing with their own teammates and, you know, on the bench. So I had a bunch I considered. I finally landed on Reed Shepherd. Wow.
- [61:08]
B
Okay. I love it.
- [61:09]
A
It's the Carolina Reaper pick. It's supposed to be a reach.
- [61:12]
B
I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm a huge Reed shepherd guy.
- [61:16]
A
Look, the Rockets badly need guard depth now. They traded Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks to get Kevin Durant. Fred Van Vliet. Love Fred van Vliet. He's 31 and. Which is not old, but he always misses a chunk. 15, 20 games. And if those are games that reach shepherd starting, obviously that cuts into his, his overall ratio there. But he'll still come off the bench, obviously more than he starts, assuming he gets some starts. He didn't do a lot as a rookie, but third overall pick in 2024, you know, picked that high for his shooting and playmaking abilities. I think he was in part stuck behind too many vets. Obviously there was some just adjustment concerns there as well. He did thrive at times in the G League. He only averaged 12 minutes in the 52 games he played. 4.4 points a game. Those are not exactly numbers indicative of a potential six man of the year, but, like, there's not a ton of reliable guards on this roster. It seems like the Rockets want to give him every opportunity to shine. They do have high expectations, which would be an argument against investing a lot in your second year guy who didn't show enough as a rookie. But I just think the minutes are going to be there, the opportunity is going to be there, the wins are going to be there. Importantly because again, six man of the year has got to come off of a really great team. Yeah. And he's got great vets around him. I think there's, there's, there's a chance here. So I won't say stated any stronger than that.
- [62:48]
B
I love Reed Shepherd. This is awesome. We did a thing. And during summer league, I forget what the task was, but I wrote about Reed shepherd because I, I just, I, I'm enamored by him. I think he's, he's. He's one of their most important young players. And I think he's actually like a pretty good defender for his size. And I think obviously the potential of having someone who can just pull up from 30ft whenever they want is really intriguing. And he can score inside the arc as well. So I love his game and I think he will be in the rotation this year. And all the attention that is demanded of KD and Shangoon and Amen Thompson putting pressure on the rim. I think Reed shepherd will. Will have a hay. I think he'll. He'll produce and put up numbers. So I like this. I like this.
- [63:46]
A
Howard also considered Caris Lavert, but I couldn't quite get myself there. My. My. Spicy. For other reasons. Pick for a moment was gonna be Jonathan Kaminga.
- [63:58]
B
Wow.
- [64:01]
A
What?
- [64:01]
B
On what team?
- [64:03]
A
Well, that's, that's the thing, right? Like, is he the sixth man of the Warriors? Is he a starter in Sacramento or somewhere? Like, I don't even know. But, but like for a guy who is playing for a contract no matter where he is, right, he's either on a qualifying offer or he's on a one plus one or not one plus one. But you know, you know, one year deal with team option. Whatever it ends up being, he's not getting the deal he wants. So he's playing for a contract. We already know he can put up numbers. I thought he'd actually be a fun pick for this, but it was. It's all just too strange with his situation.
- [64:38]
B
I had, I had Karis Lavert as well. I think he will contend for this award. I also had T.J. mcConnell, who, you know, he's America's sweetheart. What can you say coming off that final? This man almost won finals mvp. That's a thing that happened. I still have not processed the NBA Finals, by the way. It's going to be like next Christmas. I'm going to finally get over it. And Scottie Pippen Jr. Was, was another one of my.
- [65:09]
A
I like that. Yeah, I don't think the Grizzlies will be good enough.
- [65:12]
B
Fair.
- [65:13]
A
That's the problem there.
- [65:14]
B
Fair.
- [65:15]
A
The, the, the strangest one I consider was Dylan Harper. Like if the spurs make the. The like massive leap that people think that they might be able to make and he's not going to start and they, but they're a young team so they'll play him a lot. But there's again, like too many weird considerations there. But anyway, all right, we got two categories left. We'll. We'll get through these a little bit quicker. Most improved player. The team record is generally irrelevant for this one. This is strictly what the player did. The 2025 winner. And no one's getting most improved back to back. Years anyway. But the most improved winner and runner up last year were Dyson Daniels and ivika Zubac. The 2026 favorites who we cannot pick are Denny Avdia, Andrew Nemhard and Benedict Matheran. So double shot of Pacers there. I generally say no, no second year guys for most improved either. So I wasn't going to go with anybody who's a second year player, honestly. And I said this before we started the pod. Most improved to me is like when we're doing preseason stuff, this is always like the most impossible one. Like we don't know what guys are working on during the summer, how their roles will evolve the next season, the opportunity they might get, how circumstances change around them. Like this one is really hard to just guess in August of any year. But we're doing it anyway because we need things for the podcast. Your Jalapeno pick for most improved Michael.
- [66:43]
B
Pina Jabari Smith Jr Houston Rockets I like it. I will just second what you said about I don't vote for or consider second or third year players for this award. I think in your first three years you should be improving. And so Jabari Smith Jr barely qualifies, has the new contract. He. I, you know, I, I was just really impressed with how he played in the playoffs. Like when the ball was in his hands in that series against the Golden State Warriors. I thought he made really quick, smart decisions. He had a one dribble, two dribble pull up. That was true pretty much every time or it felt that way at least. I think he has defensive versatility obviously that he's shown and I just, I think he will benefit greatly from having Kevin Durant, who in a lot of ways his game is similar to, not even close to as good or ever will be, but similar to that type of archetype. So uh, yeah, this was I think like on a, in a winning situation, assuming he starts, which I think he should start, maybe he won't, I don't know. I think that that starting lineup is a little bit in flux. But if he starts, he gets big minutes and just gets open shots or slash is defended by the opposing teams like, I don't know, fourth just like borderline weakest defender anytime he's on the court. I think Jabari Smith Jr. Will have a really good year, more efficient year. And even if he isn't averaging 17, 18 points a game, you'll notice the improvement if you watch the Houston Rockets play. And so that's my, that's my pick and I think he'll Have a really good year.
- [68:36]
A
I like it. I like it. I think we could kind of see the progression coming. Maybe it's more gradual than Rockets fans would have hoped, but I also think, like, there's, you know, there's a rising tide thing here going on too, where you get Kevin Durant and expectations and just the general atmosphere. Everything, everything evolves a little bit. Everything levels up a little bit. And I think it's a good context for a guy like him to, to spread his wings a little bit. I did struggle with both of my picks here. For my jalapeno pick, I went with my old standby, Scoot Henderson, in part because I feel like, like it's now or never. He needs to be improved drastically. I think I touched on this with, with Zach on his show a month or so ago. I, I, I do think, I think it's a real thing in the NBA, like having the right context, the right mentorship does matter. I'm not saying that playing next to Jrue Holiday and having Dame Lillard while rehabbing in the locker room sprinkles magic dust on you. I don't think you somehow transform just based on that. But I've talked to enough players over the last 28 years to know that everybody, and especially the stars, and especially the guys who really understood what it means to evolve your game, they're always talking about my vet or my vets and the guys who gave them like, you know, whether it was, you know, advice on just their day to day work ethic or, or this, the most minor little tips about how to navigate the pick and roll in a given situation. And he's got Chauncey Billups as his coach too. Of course. He's like surrounded by like freaking hall of Fame point guard wisdom. But also it's this. The potential has always been there, right? He came into the NBA with an NBA body. He, you know, was the, you know, he was, he was. There was at least a brief moment in time where people were debating, is it going to be Scoot versus Wemby for, for number one. Although that went away very quickly. But he was.
- [70:48]
B
The Scoot Wemby game in Vegas was awesome. That was an awesome.
- [70:52]
A
That was so much fun. The only G League game potentially I've ever enjoyed. Sorry. G League, that was, that was, that was uncalled for. Damn. That was, that was mean. Yeah. Rest, rest in peace. G League ignite. Scoot has all the tools. And as you know, because we were, I think you were still with me at SI at the Time when I went down to Georgia to go do the feature on him. I think he's about all the right things. He's. He's a great kid, incredibly professional and wants to be great. Works hard, I think has a great basketball iq. I think it's been funky in Portland just because, you know, they haven't picked a direction and they still sort of are trying to pick a direction, but they're getting there. He finished I think pretty strong last season. They finished stronger. It feels like things are moving in the right direction. You can quibble over whether Jrue Holiday is the right player at the right time, but I think, you know, we've seen this in a number of cases where just having that one, that one championship type veteran who comes in gives you that. That last bit of, of whatever. Know how. I don't know. Most improved is impossible. I'm going Scoot Henderson with my jalapeno pick.
- [72:14]
B
He wouldn't qualify for my own arbitrary rules that aren't real. But yeah, I like this.
- [72:20]
A
I think he's just outside of my. The number the two year rule. Yours is the three year rule.
- [72:25]
B
But yeah, I think that Scoot, you know, there's a lot of room for improvement which is a good, good start. And there were glimpses throughout I think like, I don't know from like maybe the new year on. He had like a 25, 30 game stretch that was actually really optimistic. I wrote a column earlier in the year about the least improved players and he was on it. And shortly after I thought he played really well, all things considered, particularly on the defensive end taking a role that, you know, picking up full court. He was a, he was a big part of Portland kind of turning their season around on that side of the ball. And I just, yeah, I like the physical tools are all there. Can he consistently get to the rim, finish at the rim, get to the free throw line? Will he start? That's like a big part of this I think for him we'll see. But I think Jrue Holiday in particular, his influence will be terrific. He's one of the best locker room guys in the NBA. Gold medal winner, been around some of the best players who've ever played the sport and is. Has been the missing ingredient in two different organizations in the last what, five years. Which is not a lot of people can say that to championship winning organizations. So that influence should go a long way. Hopefully it does. And yeah, I like this pick. I hope I'm rooting for Scoot who.
- [73:52]
A
Is your Carolina reaper pick.
- [73:53]
B
My Carolina Reaper pick is. This is a funky one. J. Huff, center. Starting center, I guess for the, for the Indiana Pacers. I think I in real life would probably go with other members of the Indiana Pacers if I was like betting money on this award or something. I think Andrew Nemhardt is someone who opened a lot of eyes during the playoffs and in particular during the NBA Finals. As someone who is just awesome, rock solid on both sides of the ball, he might be a shoo in to win this, I don't know. But since he is not eligible, I think J. Huff, you know, I'm going from like, this is someone who has the, has like the skill set that every team wants, right? Like he is the three point shooting, rim protector, seven foot tall center. Like, that is what every team wants. He had spurts last year with the Memphis Grizzlies where it was like, oh, they found something here and he got money from it and he's replacing Miles Turner, who is, has. That's been who Miles Turner is and why Miles Turner was so coveted by the Milwaukee Bucks during the off season. I think not having Tyrese Halliburton kind of is this, this is like dead in the water a little bit. We'll see, you know, if he's sharing the core with TJ McConnell quite a bit and TJ can still get to the rim and kick it out. Numbers could be there. And J. Huff's signature reverse dunks will be on display all year long. Hopefully people will be paying attention. But I don't, he's, you know, he's definitely not going to win this award. But I think the, the part of him having far more opportunity than he did at any other point in his career, frankly, I think that that's why I went with him.
- [75:50]
A
Yeah.
- [75:53]
B
Not a lot of Jay Huff talk. Not a lot of Jay Huff opinions. Howard, no thoughts on his beard, on his hairline? Nothing.
- [76:03]
A
Phenomenal. Yeah, I love the beard. Were you there? I think we ran into his girlfriend or his wife on the concourse at Barclays one night when they were here.
- [76:14]
B
That was definitely not me, but I.
- [76:16]
A
Would remember that one wearing like the J. Huff jersey. Anyway. Um, I, I. No, it's a good pick. Like, look, this is. We, we called it Carolina Reaper for, for a reason was, was running into.
- [76:28]
B
J. Huff's girlfriend slash wife. A top five moment for you at Barclays center last season almost by default.
- [76:35]
A
Yes.
- [76:35]
B
Okay, continue. I apologize.
- [76:40]
A
It's rough. It's rough. I went to a Liberty game last month and that was a fricking Blast and. And the difference in atmosphere. And granted, look, unfair comparison. The Liberty are super good defending champs, and the Nets are very far from that. But, man, the atmosphere at Barclays for Liberty game right now is just awesome. Absolutely incredible.
- [77:03]
B
I feel like we always take shots at the Nets when we pod, but it's just. It's hard not to. You know, they'll get out of this.
- [77:10]
A
They'll make it through shots. Look, they're doing the right thing. They're. They're doing what they have to do right now. It's. It's. It's fine. It is. It is what it is. You and I have no stakes in this. We're not. That's fans, but it's like, it is our backyard. We do go to a lot of games for work purposes and frequently leave before the game starts because there's no reason to stick around. Anyway, my Carolina Reaper pick. Would you like to hear it?
- [77:35]
B
I would love to.
- [77:36]
A
Improved.
- [77:36]
B
Yes.
- [77:37]
A
Oh, am I out there with this one? I was just scrolling people's depth charts, just. Just looking for, like, is there some glimmer here? Is there some. I don't know how I landed on Ryan Rollins, but that's what's on my page.
- [77:51]
B
Oh, my God.
- [77:52]
A
It's in my word. Doc, I could show it to you. You don't want to see it. Look, Dame Lillard is. Is gone. There is no clear replacement. They signed Cole Anthony. They have Kevin Porter Jr. I don't want to say anything more. There's really, like, Giannis needs help. Ryan Rollins had some really nice moments down the last couple of the months of the season. They resigned him. Three years, 12 million. Doc Rivers keeps talking him up. John Horst is talking them up. They know things we don't. He's big for a guard. He can shoot, proving as a playmaker, can finish in traffic a bit, defends a bit. I think there's opportunity. Like, that's the thing with Most Improved, right? Like it is sometimes it is about your literal improvement skill set, and in a lot of times, it's about some combination of that and minutes, and he's in a position to. To get a lot more opportunity. And it's the Carolina Reaper pick I get. You know, we're supposed to be reaching here. So it's a great pick.
- [78:51]
B
I think it's a great pick. I'm down on the Bucks. I'm. I'm a little angry at you for picking someone associated with the Bucks, because just me speaking about the Milwaukee Bucks will incur weeks of just pure hatred and vitriol throughout the Internet from Milwaukee Bucks faithful. But no, I like this pick, General. I mean, like, the. The. The logic is there, and that's what all you can ask for when you're picking a Carolina Reaper for Most Improved Player. You know, where do you have the.
- [79:22]
A
Bucks in the east as of right now.
- [79:24]
B
What? Did I have them at, like 11?
- [79:26]
A
You. You. Yeah, no, no, I know.
- [79:28]
B
No, no, no, no.
- [79:29]
A
Did you put them outside of the plane?
- [79:30]
B
No, no, no, no. I had them in the plan. I had them in the plan. I think ninth, ninth. Ninth, or tenth? Yeah.
- [79:35]
A
Wow.
- [79:36]
B
Ninth. I had them ninth. Ninth. Sorry. Bucks fans, do not get mad. Ninth. Even though that will make them.
- [79:42]
A
They are. They already hate you. It doesn't matter.
- [79:43]
B
Yeah.
- [79:44]
A
All right, one last category. We'll get the hell out of here. Defensive Player of the Year. Another one that is, like, incredibly difficult to prognosticate in an offseason for various reasons. Uh, the winner and runner up last year and therefore ineligible for this exercise were Evan Mobley and Dyson Daniels. The favorites for this coming season and therefore ineligible for this exercise are one Victor Wembanyama, Chet Holmgren, and Evan Mobley, who we'd already previously crossed out. Uh, your jalapeno pick for Defensive Player of the Year, Michael Pena. Is.
- [80:18]
B
This is. This is a very similar to Rookie of the Year for me. If it's not Wemby, it's spicy. Like, you're. Come on. Like, what are you doing if you're not picking Wemby? But I'm pretty. I think I'm pretty spicy here. I'm. I'm pretty. There's a lot of jalapeno seeds in this jalapeno.
- [80:35]
A
It's Cam Thomas, isn't it?
- [80:39]
B
I'm going with Scotty Barnes.
- [80:42]
A
Oh, whoa.
- [80:44]
B
Yeah.
- [80:44]
A
It was a double. Oh, that's like a double bang. I don't think I've ever done that before.
- [80:47]
B
Wow, I'm impressed. I really pulled that one out. Listen, awesome defender. We'll start there. Incredibly versatile, can guard all five positions. He will spend time as their best rim protector. He'll spend time guarding the other team's top scorer. He'll have a lot of defensive responsibility this year for a team that, you know, obviously there's a lot of different reasons why they finished so well after the All Star break. They finished second, I believe, in defensive rating. There's a lot of reasons for that. The competition was terrible. Three point luck, all of that. But all year long, when Scotty Barnes was on the court, their Defense was very good. When he's off the court, it's not as good. The advanced stats love him for obvious reasons. And I think the Toronto Raptors have a chance to be pretty good again defensively. And I think that he is just. I mean, if they finish in the top 10 and he has really favorable on offs, which this is all tracking is possible, people will look at him and recognize that he is like up there in terms of just not a lot of defensive weaknesses, like can guard basically anyone. I mean, I remember he was a rookie guarding Joel Embiid, fronting him in the post. Obviously there's a lot of help coming on the backside, but, like, he can handle a lot and he's got great size, great body, great instincts. So I think this one is like, feasible in the world where what happened last year to Wemby happens again, where he is not. Does not qualify for whatever reason. I think that Scotty Barnes, if he plays enough games and the Toronto Raptors are in the playoff hunt, which I think they will be, that people will be paying attention to his defense and giving him credit for it.
- [82:37]
A
I think I feel about the Raptors kind of the way you feel about the Bucks, where it's just like I just go away and come back when. When I understand what it is you're trying to accomplish. Winning.
- [82:47]
B
They're trying to win. That's what they're trying to accomplish.
- [82:49]
A
I. I guess I still don't understand.
- [82:51]
B
They're not trying to lose. They're spending. They're in the tax. We're not trying to lose basketball games.
- [82:56]
A
Fair. Congrats to Bobby Webster, by the way, for finally being named as Messiah. Jiri's replacements don't understand the Messiah Jiri Parting either, but whatever. Raptors. Yeah, no, I like the pick. That's a great pick. Given that, I'm not sure I went spicy enough here, but I'm within our rules. Maybe I'm not within the spirit of our rules. If I went for my jalapeno pick with Amen Thompson, is. Is that.
- [83:23]
B
I knew you were going to pick Amen Thompson. I knew it, Howard. I knew it.
- [83:27]
A
Did you more than. More than you knew I would pick Joel Embiid for. Why not Amend Thompson? I mean, yeah, again, like, not. Not quite that spicy. Because he was getting. He was in the conversation. He was. I think he was on one of the all defensive teams, right? Did he make first team? He was.
- [83:47]
B
He was on an all defensive team.
- [83:49]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Not that spicy. Other than pretty. Pretty damn young. To your point. He's not. His name is not Victor Wembanyama. Guards. Everybody is an absolute killer at that end. Like, there. There's only a handful of guys in the league at any given time where you. If you told somebody, just a casual fan, stop watching the ball. Just watch this guy play defense. It's fun to watch him play defense. He. He. He cares to an insane degree. And they were already a top five defense, the Rockets, last season. I think they. They only get better in that regard. Even at Kevin Durant's age. I, I think that plugging him in to that roster, taking out Jalen Green, I think is a net benefit there. And we already know what Amend Thompson can do. I don't. I don't really need to say more there. As. As I said, it was probably not spicy enough, maybe too obvious, but he fits within our rules.
- [84:52]
B
Again, I knew you were going to pick him, so I'm not sure. I have no real reaction here. I think it's good, a good pick.
- [84:57]
A
Other than be more creative. Howard, you'. So it's just like an undercurrent of disappointment there.
- [85:03]
B
I feel like it's. Man, this award is so tough because, like, Victor Wembanyama exists. So it's like, I can't just say, oh, he should. He'll win Defensive player of the Year. But in a world where Victor does not exist, it's like I'm looking at. I'm projecting the rest of Amend Thompson's career, and I'm like, he'll definitely win Defensive player of the year. Like, there's. There's no doubt in my mind that's the type of talent that he is. And it's only a matter of, like, is that going to be. His role is, like, because he's so dynamic offensively, where it's like, okay, we can't expend so much energy from this guy. So he is. He's just such a freak in the best possible way. I love watching him play basketball.
- [85:46]
A
All right, real quickly, we should just do our Carolina Reaper picks. We are. We are, like, at the bottom of the. We're at the bottom of our list, but we're also at, like, the furthest reaches of reaching for very difficult awards to prognosticate. Your Carolina Reaper pick for Defensive Player of the Year is Asar Thompson. No. You stole my pick. This was my bit for the. To. To wrap this up. I picked them both. I went Amen. And then Asar.
- [86:11]
B
I think Asar is better defensively than Amen by a tick of a Hair, eyelash, whatever you want to say. I think that there is a world where primarily because what I was just talking about, where it's like his role this year on the Detroit Pistons will be defensive stopper. It'll be. We'll always have him guard the other team's best player. That's not necessarily the case with Amen. Because of how the Houston Rockets are built and how they guard and all the switching that they do and their physicality. I think Asar just. I just, like, in my. In my brain when I think about him, there's so many plays from last year where I'm just like, this guy is just the way he moves defensively, the way he's able to stay in front of people. I know that a lot of, you know, people think about that the Flashbowl moment is him getting crossed up by Jalen Brunson at the end of Game six. But, like, if you watch that series, like, Asar Thompson is like, guarding Jalen Brunson for stretches with his arms behind his back as. So as not to pick up any fouls. Because, you know, watching that series, Jalen Brunson was, you know, he was. He was. There was some gamesmanship there for sure, with him trying to get whistles, and Asar was giving it right back to him and just shuffling his feet, staying in front of him with his chest, chest to chest. It was like. It is. That is so hard to do with someone as crafty as Jalen Brunson. And he did a phenomenal job. And I think that Detroit, there's a chance that they win that Game six if Jimmy Bickerstaff doesn't take Asar out of the game late in the fourth quarter. So I just. I think that there's a world where he's. He's recognized as the best perimeter defender in the league as early as next season. I think having the blood clot issue all squared away, and I think his minutes will go up. And we already talked about his role, so that's my Carolina Reaper pick. Here is a Sar Thompson, who I love, and he's right up there with his brother in terms of just enjoyment, aesthetically watching the game of basketball, I had the same.
- [88:19]
A
So I don't need to belabor any of what you just said. Agree with all of that. We were both there for certainly all the New York games in the Knicks Piston series, and he was just a fucking killer and absolutely impressive down the stretch of last season when I was kind of making the rounds with people trying to get input feedback for postseason awards and he of course was not sar. Thompson was not eligible based on games played. But someone went out of their way in these conversations. The scout who was saying like, listen, he's better. He's exactly what you said. He's better than his brother. As awesome as Amend Thompson isn't. Thompson's getting all the accolades deservedly right now, but if Asar had played the full season, we'd be talking about him as being and Amend obviously is more developed offensively, but Asar is the stronger one defensively at this stage of their careers. And look not for nothing but like the Pistons now have to adjust to having this kind of like very offensive minded return of Jaden Ivey. So the Ivy Cunningham backcourt like you, you need Thompson out there getting the other team's best perimeter player at all times. There'll be plenty of opportunity and plenty of proof of concept. Great pick by both of us for the Carolina Reaper segment of the Defensive Player of the Year awards. Any parting thoughts before this? As it turns out, slightly too long. Podcast wraps up Michael Pina here it is, 90 minutes of content on August 28th with absolutely nothing happening in the world. You're welcome, people.
- [89:51]
B
Incredible job by us. I gotta say. I We were texting before. I was like worried that this pod was only going to be like 30 minutes long. So incredible. Like we are. We're amazing. We deserve it all. That's all I got to say.
- [90:04]
A
Howard, we really do. We're going the extra mile for you. The listeners appreciate you all. Thank you all for tuning in to the Ringer NBA show. I don't know when we'll be back, but it's probably going to be before too long. In the meantime, enjoy Eurobasket everyone. It.