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- [00:02]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
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- [00:39]
Logan Murdoch
What's Poppin Ruins Ruins After Dark to be specific. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell and Howard Beck in a second. We talk about all of the Friday slate. We talk about wimby's dominance. We talk about the Knicks just taking all over the Sixers facilities and just beat them to a pulp, you know, in front of Timothy Salame and all the rest of the Knicks fans. Sorry Cliff. You'll be all right though. I got a bright future ahead of you. Then we talk about Villains, which means Oklahoma City and Draymond Green as a TV announcer. All that and more on Real Ones After Dark. Cliff Victoria playing theme music the Ringer
- [01:19]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
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- [02:05]
Logan Murdoch
Just pop it. Real Ones After Dark this is probably as Roger's last time Real Ones After Dark Lady Joe
- [02:16]
Roger Bell
don't even get me started. Bro. Bro, we got game. We got Games starting at 8am on Saturday. Man, it is 1:45. It's 12:45 in the morning.
- [02:26]
Logan Murdoch
It is, it is. It is because the San Antonio spurs beat the Minnesota Timberwolves. Now I would like to note that Howard put a kiss of death into the podcast group chat when he told everyone. Oh man, we'll be potting by halftime, everybody. Yeah, with the way that the the spurs are going to, the Wolves couldn't
- [02:48]
Howard Beck
make a shot for the first 10 minutes of the game.
- [02:51]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, you, you said that the most resilient team in the, in the, in the NBA playoffs were not going to come back from a 15 point deficit. That's what you applied there.
- [03:00]
Howard Beck
I. So I, I just thought maybe if we could pot early, we could get out early and Raja would be less cranky.
- [03:06]
Roger Bell
Wishful thinking, Howard. Thanks for trying.
- [03:08]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, yeah. Cranky Raj is probably like, top two. Raja, though, other than, you know. Oh, okay. And then, you know, here we go. We're three deep in. Let's do this. All right. So story of the night, Victor Wyama, 39 points, 15 rebounds, five blocks. And I'm not sure. This game just ended, so I'm not sure how many points he had in the, in the fourth quarter, but at the time, when I last I checked, he had 14 in the fourth. And he has Rudy Gobert Raja in a bit of a. Yeah, in a turn style because he can simultaneously go from guard to big man and. Oh, yeah, he's like 75. So like, it's really. He's really got cracked the code on Rudy Gobert, who's having a great postseason. What did you see with. From the assertiveness of Victor Vuen Binyama against Rudy Gobert and how can that really unlock the spurs team for the rest of the series?
- [04:07]
Roger Bell
Well, I mean, you know, I said it in game one. I thought he was getting good looks. I thought he was a little indecisive in, in the first game. I thought there were some things that if he had just made his mind up that he was going to do what he wanted to do and, and do that with conviction, that it could kind of change pretty quickly. Tonight, you, you saw it like he, he, he is a, he's the difference in that game. Like, any way you slice it, whether it's on the defensive end when Minnesota can't, you know, the amount of times that Minnesota wants to go to the rim and thinks in any other game in an NBA season, they have a layup or a floater and they can't execute that and have to like, swing it out for a three or a swing. Swing three. I mean, that's, that's Victor Wembanyama, right? Like, that's the ghost of him. Where is he? Is he going to block this? That's his impact on that in the floor. And then I thought there was a sequence. I think it was a fourth quarter, could have been the third. That I, I think completely, you know, captures the essence of the problem that is Victor Webman Yama, when you're trying to guard him, which was like, it was an offensive rebound. It was D. Wade on the call. Was it D. Wade on the call?
- [05:21]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [05:21]
Roger Bell
He even referenced, like, it was like a tap to himself, and then he caught it on the. On the tap and then finished it really high, right? So it was like a. He didn't bring it down. Didn't let any guards get it or wings get involved. He kind of tapped it to himself with that, like, I don't know, ten foot, like, reach he's got, and then finishes it high. And then the next play down, he's kind of like, directing traffic from the top of the key, and he swings it to the wing and sets him his own self up for, like, a flare screen, right? Like a flare. And. And Rudy, like, what fucking seven footer that guards the paint is used to navigate.
- [05:57]
Logan Murdoch
This is not an indictment on Rudy Go Bear's defense.
- [05:59]
Roger Bell
It's not at all. At all in any shape or form. This is just the conundrum that he puts you in. And so he, like, navigates it himself. He sets it up, he swings it, he brings the flare. He.
- [06:09]
Logan Murdoch
He.
- [06:09]
Roger Bell
He sets his man up like a guard, and he pops, and he just cashes a three. And it. It would put the best wing defenders in a really tough spot. For guys that are used to guarding primarily the rim and drop coverage and. And being big, I mean, it puts you in a real impossible position. When he's executing from all areas of the floor. The spin, the spin, fade, step back, like, you know, like, look, man, the repertoire is so deep, and when it's working and he's confident and they're moving him around and getting him catches in different areas on the floor, which is important, he becomes the difference in a game. I don't know how else I can put it like that. He's the difference in the game, bro.
- [06:52]
Logan Murdoch
It was just. It was wild because, I mean, me and Howard have talked about this. I think last summer or the summer that he got drafted, he's like seven different legends in one. So when you talk about the Kim just getting himself off a flare screen, you see Steph Curry some kind of way, right? Then you see Kevin Durant, then you see Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Then you see, like, you know, Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain. The last game when we thought that was kind of a bad game for him, right? Where he just wasn't assertive, but he had one of the greatest playoff defensive performances in NBA history while doing that. We've never seen anything like this before. And this was. Was a game when the spurs really needed him to carry because his supporting cast just wasn't there. You know, Darren Fox went seven of 19, you know, and you could see it when Wimy was off the floor. That's whenever Minnesota got back into the game, and they're going to need him to carry. But what did you think about just his assertiveness, Roger? Right, like, and I think that was the biggest difference that we've seen over the last two games.
- [07:52]
Roger Bell
Yeah, well, you know, it's a process. You know, we, we, we talked about him from game one. And, you know, every, everyone kind of weighed in on whether or not they were worried about him. And, and, you know, the bottom line is you've never, you haven't been there until you've been there. You haven't gone through it until you've gone through it. And everyone acclimates at their own pace. Like, you can never predict how long it's going to take for Logan or Howard to really acclimate to, like, what a playoff environment's like, you know, and it's different from round one to round two to Western or e. Fortune conference playoffs, to the finals. Like, every round becomes its own animal. And so, like, you know, it's been, it's been fun to watch him kind of in real time say, okay, like, I'm acclimating. I understand what happened in game one. I understand what happened in game two. And then now, you know, while I imprinted this series before this on the defensive end, here I go offensively. And tonight was a masterclass on both ends of the floor. And that's just, that's just what you want to see out of a player of that ill. You know, a player that we expect to be the face of the, the league moving forward. Like, and it's, it's cool to watch it happen in real time. People should really appreciate what they saw tonight. And not just the offense. The offense was crazy. And I know he didn't have the blocks like he had in game one. Howard, like, I'll let you go. Like, I know he didn't have the blocks that he had in game one, but if you go back and rewind that tape and just look at how many opportunities that, that Minnesota would have. Normally, ordinarily, in 99% of NBA games, had finishes around the paint where they just decided there could be a block coming and they just rifled it out. I mean, you can't quantify what that does in terms of defensive efficiency and limiting people getting those wide open looks around the rim.
- [09:38]
Howard Beck
Yeah, it's every game. It's worth watching just that part of it. Raja. Like, we are going, like, the stuff that really pops in a game like this, of course, is like, you know, the turnaround jumper over Rudy and then like, you know, next possession down the. The deeper three. And, you know, like, he could.
- [09:58]
Logan Murdoch
He.
- [09:58]
Howard Beck
He just. When he wants to turn it on and be the guy that you play through and be the scorer, it's really fun because of the way. All the different ways he can do that. And then the blocks, because blocks can be spectacular just by nature of. Of blocks, right? But if you. If you wanted to watch a game of just every time the opponent has the ball and Wimy's in the paint, Wim's in the game and in the paint, and just watch what they do and what they don't do. And then look at the difference every time Cornette came in. And it's not a knock on Cornette, of course. I was just looking up the plus minus, actually, as you were wrapping up, because I wanted to see, like, so WIMY was a plus 16 and Cornette was a minus nine. So, like, again, that's not a knock on Cornette. That is. That is illustrating in this particular game the difference in having Wimby out there. The shots that are not made, the shots that are not taken.
- [10:48]
Logan Murdoch
No, I mean, it's a great equalizer, Roger. Right, to. Just. Because we forget right where. And there was a stat in the fourth quarter that they. That they. That Amazon put up where it was talking about just the difference in experience between these two teams. Playoff experience. I believe the. The Timberwolves had something like 340. Something more than 340 games combined of playoff experience. And I think the San Antonio spurs had 44 or something along those lines.
- [11:15]
Howard Beck
And they're probably all Harrison Barnes and Dear and Fox.
- [11:18]
Logan Murdoch
Exactly. Right. And so you see that with the supporting cast, right? This is only their third game on the road as a team in the postseason. Right? And you saw that with Dylan Harper's performances, Right. You saw that with Stefan Castle. Right. But they needed the. The spurs needed a great equalizer to kind of offset that. It's weird that the. The great equalizer is also the guy that is also the star, but he's kind of going through this kind of new environment, if you will. And it reminds me, honestly, a lot of LeBron in 06, where he was just kind of, you know, took the team by storm and played. But, like, can you just kind of contextualize how hard that is and that adjustment when you are a young player on that type of stage and what that means for. For your. Your young star to do something like this and keep you afloat, I actually
- [12:07]
Roger Bell
can't contextualize it because I have no idea what that is like to do. And I was playing in 06, so don't really remember LeBron doing it. So let me just speak to what a role player. God damn it.
- [12:23]
Logan Murdoch
Right? I set you up, but I was wrong.
- [12:26]
Roger Bell
I gave you the thing.
- [12:27]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, all right.
- [12:29]
Roger Bell
It's all good, man. It's all good. I understand what you're saying, and I. All jokes aside, look, if. If. Okay, let's just put this series in perspective, right? Like, we stole a Game one. If we're Minnesota and we're coming home, you know, game two got away from us, but we don't really give a fuck about that. We're playing with house money. We're coming home. We figure if we can hop out and get some traction in game one, young team, who knows what might happen to them? What. What. What type of, like, insecurities might creep in and who we can get to not play well. And so, you know, the game plan is to jump on them quick and get game one, you know, game three, as we get back home, see if we can secure that. The worst thing that could happen would be your star to come out and be timid, mind you. Not bad, like, but timid in the face of the daunting task, which is winning game three and trying to get the home court back. If we looked around as role guys and said, oh, shit, Logan really is not here to play, like, never mind whether he's going to be good or not tonight. He just doesn't want to, like, champion the cause for us winning game three tonight. Just that in and of itself is a really, really tough hill to climb, right? Because it just throws all of us into roles that we ordinarily don't play on, like, this team, especially in these, like, high pressure situations. And so just having him there for the shits, if you will, is important. But having him there for the shits and then being very, very efficient and executing and, you know, for the most part, playing within himself. I mean, there were very few, if you remember game one, I talked about the possessions that he had where he was leaving his feet. There was no plan. He looked like he was kind of, like, hurried. Like there were few and far between tonight. Like, I. I saw one or two, but for the most part, he was under control. He was efficient. I mean, that Just puts us in a really, really safe space. Now, did all of those guys chime in the way you would have wanted them to because they were in a safe space? No, but your star was a star. Like, he was incredible on both ends of the floor. And because of that, you know you can get that dub. So, like, I can't quantify how important it is to a team, especially a young team, to have your star come out and just stamp it early that he's here to play because that's safety. But then he's here to play and he's good. That now gives you the chance to win the game, and they want it.
- [15:08]
Logan Murdoch
One point on that. Before we get to Howard's perspective on this. You did the thing that you always do, Roger, where you say, I don't know how I'm going to answer the question, and then you give an 11 out of 10 answer. So I'm just want to, like, put you in there. Like, you tend to do this a lot.
- [15:22]
Roger Bell
Listen, you do this role. Guys have a real unique perspective.
- [15:25]
Logan Murdoch
I know. This is why I asked you a question. I probably could have worded it better, bro, but, like, that's why I asked the question to you. You know, more basketball than all of us. Jesus Christ, man. It's like when we were. When Sue Bird was on the pod, and you were like, I don't know what to talk about. And then, like, you took over the pod. Yeah.
- [15:39]
Roger Bell
Shout out Sue.
- [15:40]
Logan Murdoch
Shout out. Howard. Any thoughts, final thoughts on Victor women, Yama in the Spurs? Because I do want to get to the Timberwolf side of this, but any final thoughts that you would have before we get to the Timberwolf side?
- [15:55]
Howard Beck
No. So one of the other stats that Amazon flashed, and it was so fast that I maybe missed some context, but they were saying that there were only three other guys who had ever gone 35, 15, and 5. But maybe it was at a certain age, because they listed Akeem, Shaq, and Kareem. And Wemby is the only guys to go 35, 15 rebounds, five blocks, and I think Wemby finished with, like, 39. But I ran it on stat head, and it's just like, this is just a ridiculous list of guys in the postseason who have ever had 35, 15, and 5 in a game. It's Wilt Chamberlain and Akeem and Shaq and Kareem, and there's a Willis Reed on there. Like, it's just. It's insane. And this is his first playoff run. So that takes me to a great tweet the perspective, all the perspective we need on this from the hall of Famer J A Adande, who put this up on Blue Sky a little bit ago, which was a reminder. This is the least experienced version of Victor Wembanyama that we're going to see. Like the guy is just fucking dominating the game against an experienced Timberwolves team. And granted the Wolves, like there's some caveats here. And Edwards just got back, this was his first game, starting again after going through all this stuff with his knee. They're missing Dante DiVincenzo IO Dumu just got back. But this is a team that's been to back to back Western Conference finals that has anchored by Rudy Gobert, one of the greatest big man defenders of his era, and Anne Edwards, one of the great scorers of this era and Wemby and a bunch of other young guys. It's not just like it's, you know, Adande's tweet was this is the least experienced version of Wembanyama we could just sub in. Stefan Castle, Dylan Harper, the Spurs at large. They weren't supposed to be here and they're now a couple wins away from being in the, in the Western Conference finals when they were supposed to be like a play in team or like a six seed this year. It's, it's absolutely remarkable what they're doing, how polished they look, how ready for the moment they look. There's a ways to go in this series yet, but it, it's just super impressive.
- [18:02]
Logan Murdoch
Roger, what are the Timberwolves how to do to win game four?
- [18:08]
Roger Bell
They gotta shoot the ball. Look, they're in a tough, they're in a tough spot. I mean, they're middle, they're middle of the pack in the league. I think 16th in the league in terms of threes made per game. Right. And I think through the series they made like 10 in the first game, nine in the second game. And was it like 14 tonight? Like something like that? I think they typically average about 13 a game, but what you saw San Antonio do tonight was they were getting the ball out of ant's hands early. Getting it out, right? So you're getting it out of his hands and typically you'd say, okay, well we're going to play four on three. And you know, the way I was taught when we were youngin was like, you got a four on three, we're getting a layup out of that somehow, you know what I mean? Like, we're going to manipulate this defense and get a high quality Layup. Except they got Victor Wembanyama.
- [18:54]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [18:55]
Roger Bell
Who we just talked about.
- [18:56]
Logan Murdoch
Vic's like, nah.
- [18:57]
Roger Bell
He's like, no, that's not going to happen. So if that's going to happen, you're spraying the ball out from the top. All right, we're going to attack because we're four on three. When Minyama is going to deter the.
- [19:09]
Howard Beck
The.
- [19:09]
Roger Bell
The layup, you've got to make out, you've got to make more jump shot, you got to make more threes.
- [19:14]
Logan Murdoch
Right.
- [19:15]
Roger Bell
And, you know, I don't mean to boil it down to that, but if that's going to be the strategy, and I wouldn't imagine that, that San Antonio go from it after having just been successful with getting out of his hands early. You're going to have to make them pay. If you can't convert at the rim, you've got to make them pay at the line, and they've got to figure out a way to do that. On the defensive end, you're going to have to come up with some answers for. For, you know, the women Yama riddle. I'm not going to sit here and act like I have all the answers for that. I just watched the game. I need to probably watch it again to be able to give you a real fair idea of what I might do to try to solve that. But, like, they're going to have to do that. But on the offensive end, again, this wasn't a blowout. Like this game was here in the margins. Like it was. It was right there, you know, and figure out a way to get to that free throw line. But again, if. If half of. Half to a third of your potential attempts at the rim were deterred before you even tried to make the attempt, that is going to subtract a significant amount off of the attempts that you get at the free throw line organically, because you're not going in there getting beat. You're spraying it out and guys are shooting deep three. So if you're not going to make those and you're not going to get to the free throw line because you're not attempting around the rim and your best player doesn't have the ball in his hands because they're making him get off of it, you got a problem. So they've either got to convert better around the rim, get to that free throw line, or they got to make more threes on the offensive end and
- [20:46]
Logan Murdoch
then figure out Webmanyama and Raja, their best player, is on a minutes restriction. Just played 40 minutes on what we think is a runner's knee. So it's. It's tough right now. Like, it's just. It. It's tough. And also, to your second point, we've been trying to figure out the vimonyama riddle for a long time now, and I think that we're going to be spending the next 12 years to trying to figure out that riddle.
- [21:13]
Roger Bell
I know you want to get to Howard, but, like, this is. This is important. Like. Like, you remember after game one when I said, hey, you got to move him. Like, you can't have him. Just, like, went like, what they're doing.
- [21:23]
Logan Murdoch
Like, what they're doing to go bear right now. You got to do that with Wimby.
- [21:25]
Roger Bell
You got it?
- [21:26]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [21:27]
Roger Bell
No, with Wemby, you move him. So, like, when I'm saying to you, as a defensive, like, team, I need to answer to the riddle, that is. That is Wemby.
- [21:36]
Logan Murdoch
Right.
- [21:36]
Roger Bell
Well, if you keep giving him the ball relatively in the same spaces, I can devise a plan for that. Right. Like, but if you're gonna move him around the chessboard and you're gonna have him getting different type of catches in different scenarios, that's putting, like, my defense in different kind of rotations to try to corral him and double him. It makes it exponentially harder for me. So when they're doing that, like, it. It becomes a very, very daunting task.
- [22:01]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [22:02]
Howard Beck
And to be clear, in 12 years, you may still be trying to figure out Wemby, I'm gonna be long gone by. I'm retired by then, so that's not my problem.
- [22:10]
Logan Murdoch
In 12 years. Well, no, I'm gon you. And I'm gonna be like, yo, what's good?
- [22:13]
Howard Beck
No, I'm gonna. I'm like, dude, I'm on. I'm on a beach, man. I'm enjoying my retirement.
- [22:18]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Just.
- [22:18]
Howard Beck
That's your problem.
- [22:19]
Logan Murdoch
This is gonna be.
- [22:20]
Roger Bell
It's gonna be.
- [22:21]
Logan Murdoch
The real one's chat is just gonna be just shots of bourbon and shots of beaches, bro. It's lost all. It's gonna be. There we go right there. Let's talk Nick's real Nick Sixers really quickly. You want to gloat, Raja? Because you were gloating in the group chats.
- [22:38]
Roger Bell
Not a gloater. I'm not a public loader. I'm a private gloater. Okay.
- [22:42]
Logan Murdoch
You're a. You're a goddamn.
- [22:43]
Roger Bell
I'm a pride.
- [22:44]
Howard Beck
You don't need to make Cliff feel worse than he is. So, you know, we should. We should. We should. We should be cognizant. Of the feelings of this episode is
- [22:51]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
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- [23:49]
Howard Beck
Everybody on this channel right now.
- [23:50]
Logan Murdoch
Cliff, I'm sorry, buddy. No more Sixers than Six. It's mathematically impossible.
- [23:58]
Roger Bell
Yeah, look, I just got my box for like, that 01 reunion that I didn't go to. It showed up, like, while I was out of town in Phoenix. I opened it today. Thank you. Sixers, like, Jersey jacket.
- [24:12]
Howard Beck
Like, nice.
- [24:13]
Roger Bell
Really cool. So I feel, I feel. I mean, it. It hurts me to. To say that, like, I just. I don't know what it was. I don't have a great breakdown. This isn't analytically like, like, this isn't a great analytic breakdown of why I felt like that or, or an analysis of it. Like, I just. You're. You're without OG Tonight. It was. It was an opportunity. You know what happens to Philly for me, like, I'm rambling, but you know what happens? Late. Sorry, guys.
- [24:44]
Howard Beck
No, they.
- [24:44]
Roger Bell
They're. They. They. There's. They're stuck between what they want to do when. When they're stuck between what they want to do. Howard kind of alluded to it last pod. They're just. They don't, you know, are you going through Embiid? Are you playing through the guards? Are you. Like, they're just in a weird double dutch of who they're going to be as a team and they might capture it from night to night and get the most out of it. But. But on a lot of nights, I think it leaves you being less than you could be. Does that make sense?
- [25:15]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're. They're caught between two Errors, Right. And they don't have any continuity between, you know, those two things, right, Howard,
- [25:25]
Howard Beck
you just had to do that, didn't you?
- [25:28]
Logan Murdoch
Real was.
- [25:29]
Howard Beck
No, God damn it. Pulls that at one in the. One in the morning. Don't. Don't start, Logan.
- [25:37]
Logan Murdoch
Real ones after dark.
- [25:44]
Howard Beck
Listen, if this.
- [25:45]
Logan Murdoch
We have more show, ladies and gentlemen,
- [25:46]
Howard Beck
we still have more show in theory. If the Sixers couldn't win this one with no OG Anunoby out there haunting their dreams and in their jerseys and with Embiid back, and we could debate whether that was a plus or a minus, but Embiid back. So your whole. The Knicks are not. You're at home. Never mind that like 40% of the building is Knicks fans, including all.
- [26:13]
Logan Murdoch
Sorry celebrities, including.
- [26:14]
Howard Beck
Including friend of the pod, Ben Stiller, including Tracy Morgan, including Spike Lee, Fat Joe.
- [26:20]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, yo, yo, yo, yo. Tracy work was behind the bench looking like a true New Yorker. Like, he didn't even get courtside. Like, he was like, yo. You know, it was. There was a shot of him like this. Like.
- [26:31]
Howard Beck
Yep, it was. It was barely Philadelphia.
- [26:34]
Logan Murdoch
They were booming
- [26:37]
Howard Beck
they're mvp. Chance for Brunson at the line, man. New York just colonized Philadelphia's arena.
- [26:43]
Logan Murdoch
Cliff. Hey, Cliff didn't even want to go to the game. I told Cliff to go and say hello to Ben, and Cliff was like, I can't even stomach it, bro. I can't even stomach going to the arena. Arena, sorry.
- [26:54]
Howard Beck
Cliff's having a rough one. Cliff's already texted clean house and all, caps in the.
- [27:01]
Logan Murdoch
And also said, let me get that Sixers jacket, bro.
- [27:05]
Roger Bell
Where, like, dog, where is Beans? Where are Chris and me? Like, where are. Where is Eve, dog? Where are my Philly celebrities, dog? Like, can I get. Like, where are we?
- [27:17]
Logan Murdoch
They don't live in Philly, bro.
- [27:18]
Howard Beck
They don't be in. Yeah, I'm about to say they all
- [27:20]
Roger Bell
move to Eva's in London.
- [27:21]
Logan Murdoch
Like, Jesus, put her on a flight, bro. Put her on a flight, dog.
- [27:25]
Roger Bell
Okay, Eve is out of there.
- [27:26]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, I was there, though, you know. Hold it down. Roger, stop. Roger, why don't you go up there?
- [27:33]
Howard Beck
Roger, who was the biggest celebrity during your era in Philly?
- [27:37]
Roger Bell
No, we used. I mean, that was a good time. So you get like Will Smith. You get Eve at the games. You get like, you know, people. People show up to those games. I don't. I don't. I am trying to think Eagles, Phillies, like, you know, the who's who of, like, the sports would be there, and then you'd get your. Your rappers, actors, Actresses. No, that was the destiny.
- [28:03]
Logan Murdoch
No, that was an All Star Game. All Star Game, yeah.
- [28:05]
Roger Bell
Yeah.
- [28:06]
Logan Murdoch
That's the time to speak on that. Yeah.
- [28:09]
Roger Bell
Anyway.
- [28:10]
Howard Beck
Yeah, but I just. Look, I. I thought. You know, listen, I thought. I thought the Sixers would win this one tonight. I thought, like, okay, here's their opportunity. And they. They just. They looked so tentative out there. The offense, it's funny, and this is not a knock on Nick Nurse, who's a great coach. The offense didn't seem to have any sort of flow or. Or intent tonight to me. Maxi took no free throws. He had 12 shots from the field. 17 point. Like, he's your best player right now. Like, for whatever Embiid has accomplished and whatever the trophies he's got. Tyrese Maxey's your best player. And he was pretty muted in this game. And Edgecomb had one of those rare games when, you know, he kind of looked like a rookie, was a little invisible, and B couldn't do enough. And they're, you know, they're just PG played one quarter. Yeah, what's that?
- [29:01]
Roger Bell
I said PG had a quarter.
- [29:06]
Logan Murdoch
I had my Howard Beck kiss of death where I said, I. I hit Cliff during. During that quarter, and I was like, yo, man, PG hooping. I was getting my takes ready. I was like, yo, this is what Harden should be for the Cavs. And then I look up and I'm like, oh, he's gone. I had all the takes. I was ready to go.
- [29:22]
Howard Beck
Yeah, it's tough. All five Philly starters. Bobby Marks tweeted this earlier. All five Philly starters played 35 minutes, and it's a 3:30 afternoon tip on Sunday, so good luck with that recovery. Especially for Paul George and especially for Embiid.
- [29:41]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my God.
- [29:42]
Roger Bell
Like, yeah, that's tough, man. Bench points were like a stupid. Like, what was. What was the bed. The bench was crazy, too.
- [29:49]
Logan Murdoch
Like, shame.
- [29:49]
Roger Bell
It was great, but, like, Philly got nothing.
- [29:52]
Howard Beck
It was like, it was like 35 to 0 or something in bench points for the longest time. And I'm one who. Like, it's a little silly sometimes to cite bench points because if you're. If your starters are great, then who cares what your bench does? The point is to have the most points, period, not to win the bench battle. But the Knicks were going way deeper into their bench because they had more options, and the Sixers just don't have that many. And so this was another one of those nights where all of a sudden, like, Sixers Twitter and Sixers blue, you know, blue sky. Social media is all like this is when we could have used Jared McCain. Like and what? Like.
- [30:23]
Logan Murdoch
No, but they sold high though. But they sold high though, Howard. But they sold high.
- [30:26]
Howard Beck
The picks are going to be awesome. I don't know that. I don't know that Jared McCain alone is changing the course of this series. But when you can't go more than effectively six deep when you're, you're basically like you're Quentin Grimes, then after that it's like we'll put Bone out there for five minutes and you know, we'll put, you know, Edwards out there to go foul a couple of times to go do hack a Mitch and that's it. You don't trust your bench. So yeah, on a night like this, McCain would have possibly been useful for them. Not great. Not great.
- [31:02]
Logan Murdoch
Sorry, Cliff. No, but I. Howard and Roger before we get to the next segment because I feel like that's going to bring fireworks. Are the Knicks the best team left in the east right now?
- [31:18]
Howard Beck
I, I think Detroit's gonna have a lot to say about that.
- [31:22]
Logan Murdoch
Detroit's gonna, I think Roger has a lot to say about this right now too, but. Go ahead,
- [31:28]
Roger Bell
Howard.
- [31:29]
Howard Beck
The, the, the. Listen, the Pistons played them super tough a year ago when the Pistons were rookies in the playoffs.
- [31:35]
Logan Murdoch
They beat the brakes off of them this season too. Beat the absolute breaks.
- [31:38]
Howard Beck
The Piston. The Pistons kick their butts in the regular season for whatever the regular season is worth. The playoffs are different but still it's not nothing. They played them super tough in that six game series last year. There were some, you know, notable caveats in that series including a blown call at the end of one of those games and, and lack of Isaiah Stewart who I believe missed the entire series. The combination of Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duran are going to make life a hell of a lot harder for Carl Anthony Towns and Sar Thompson and Holland. The rest of those guys are going to make life pretty tough I think on Jalen Brunson now Brunson finds a way. We've seen it in this series, we've seen it throughout. Like Jalen Brunson just finds a way to score. It doesn't matter what you do to him. But the Pistons are uniquely tough and play a brand of basketball that I just think is going to put the Knicks they're. It's going to just going to strain them much more so than the Hawks or Sixers were even remotely capable of. The Knicks will be favored I think despite being the lower seed, but the Pistons are the higher seed. Do have home court Advantage. Kate is awesome. Tobias Harris is, is. Has actually been a really nice second option somehow out of the blue, speaking of turning back the CL clock and they're tough as hell. So. Yeah, I don't, I'm not, I'm not giving that, I'm not giving that title to the Knicks just yet.
- [33:00]
Roger Bell
I will. I think the Knicks are the best team in the Eastern Conference right now. And I know I'm going to catch some shit because Detroit is the, is the number one seed. But I agree with you, Howard. Like, I think that, that when we get to that matchup, oh, it's going to be everything. Like it's going to be. Yeah, that's going to be really, really cool to watch. And I don't have a prediction as to who's going to win it. I think New York has more. Well, I think they have more. They have more ways that they can win games than Detroit does. Right. But like, if, again, that doesn't mean that you're going to be able to execute that game plan and get, get, you know, Detroit to play into that every night. So I'm going to be fascinated to watch it. I think New York slightly better, but I agree with Howard. That's going to be fun to watch.
- [33:50]
Logan Murdoch
Hit the bodies, Hit the flow. Get the bodies. Hit the flow, get the bodies. That's gonna be the theme song of the series. I love how we just, just said, yeah, the Cavs, ain't we? The Cavs, they're not even in this.
- [34:02]
Howard Beck
I have no interest in talking about the Cavaliers.
- [34:05]
Logan Murdoch
No, I don't. Okay. All right. I will just say the memes that I have seen about how the memes that I have seen about James Harden in the playoffs have been. There was a meme I'm text you guys where it's Rick Ross in a James Harden uniform and they say, this is James Harden in the playoffs. I'm like, roger, why your burner do that? Why you have to do that? All right, let's take a quick break. We're going to talk about Villains. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever find yourself scrambling to grab that special something for a last minute party, a spontaneous date, or even an impromptu game night at home? That's when prime same day delivery swoops in. That essential item you thought you'd missed delivered the plan, saved the win secured. Because with prime same day delivery, you can grab it and go before the moment passes you by same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of Items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. Okay, we are back. We are here to talk about villains. The new villain of the NBA is the Oklahoma City Thunder. Especially after game two of the Western Conference semifinals against the Lakers, where the first time I have ever seen a team in unison go to the middle of the court and confront the reps about their refereeing. And you know, whenever we talk about refereeing, I got to talk about, talk to Raja because, you know, he's has a lot of history with all of these. So what have you thought about the calls in the Oklahoma City series? And is it the Oklahoma City's turn to be the villain? Is it their fault? Whose fault is it? Where are we going? Who's that?
- [35:55]
Roger Bell
Clarify your question. Clarify your question for me. Like, what do you think about the
- [35:58]
Logan Murdoch
wrestle in that series?
- [36:00]
Roger Bell
Like, why? Because, like, the Lakers fans are bitching
- [36:04]
Logan Murdoch
about it and the NBA, but yeah, the Laker fans are the loudest contingency of fans. Yes.
- [36:10]
Roger Bell
Wait,
- [36:12]
Logan Murdoch
okay, we got Laker fans are big scenes. Who is a large. I would say a lot of people within the NBA media sphere have been, you know, talking shit about the refereeing against Oklahoma City. It's been a thing. I think it's future fever pitch because they are playing against the Los Angeles Lakers, which is a big media market with a big fan base. So what have you thought about the officiating in this series?
- [36:37]
Roger Bell
I'm. Look, I've never been a huge apologist for refs. If people listen to this pod, you know that like, that's not. That's not my lane to get on here and, and like really take up for the refs.
- [36:52]
Howard Beck
Having said that, that's my lane, actually.
- [36:54]
Logan Murdoch
So that is actually your lane you do take. Yeah, yeah. They say you take up for the league and the refs.
- [36:59]
Roger Bell
We all have our. We all have our great people.
- [37:02]
Howard Beck
I love them.
- [37:03]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [37:03]
Roger Bell
No, hey, listen, in fairness, most of the refs that I've got to know as like human beings outside of like the player ref dynamic have been really good people.
- [37:12]
Logan Murdoch
You're Facebook friends with a number of rats. Got.
- [37:14]
Roger Bell
Yeah. No beef with human being. The human beings themselves, like did have some beefs with, with the role that they played within game sometimes. But I don't, I really don't have a problem with the way this series is being reft. Like, you know, I know that, that, you know, Shay is. And the, and the foul baiting and this isn't basketball. Like, I've listened to that all year long. Like, I have my thoughts on that. You know, if I'm not like, like Austin, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Austin Reeves like Shay the last game? I, that was last night. Shay had like four fouls in what, third quarter, fourth quarter, he was in a bit of foul trouble. I thought Austin Reeves went to the free throw line more than he did. If we're going star for star, I think that maybe Golden, I mean Oklahoma City shot a few more free throws than, than la. But like, I'm not, I'm not mad at the way they're reffing that series. It's a, it's a physical series. You know, it's all subjective. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't get the beef. Like, I think it's just something that people want to talk about. I think we live in a culture
- [38:26]
Logan Murdoch
where Austin Reeves, by the way had 10 free throw attempts last night and Shea had nine.
- [38:32]
Roger Bell
Right.
- [38:32]
Logan Murdoch
Like, like, and they.
- [38:34]
Roger Bell
Disrespectful.
- [38:35]
Logan Murdoch
It wasn't a real disparity either. It was 20. They had 26 attempts with Thunder did. And the Lakers had 21.
- [38:41]
Roger Bell
Yeah, like, I'm, I mean, thank you for the stats, but like, you know, Shay's a two time mvp. Like, or about to be a two time mvp. Like if your best player is shooting more free throws than him, I don't know what we're bitching about. I mean, could we cherry pick a bunch of plays and say, hey, that was, that was probably a foul. This wasn't a foul. Like, I saw some people, I'm not, I don't want to do this. I'm not gonna get into this. I don't have a problem with the way that that is being officiated. If you're a Laker fan and you're down. 02 and you, you would probably have some grievances there and I'll grant you that. Like, I, I have no problem if you feel like that, but generally speaking, I don't think it's been egregious. I mean, if you guys disagree, I'd love to hear the argument, but I don't think it's been egregious.
- [39:24]
Logan Murdoch
I think from a media standpoint though, Howard, I think I would love to have this discussion with you. It does feel like, and I wrote about this on the ringer.com you can go check this out. It is. The piece is called the Oklahoma City Thunder will take the noise as a compliment. But we've seen this with teams that win it just like a general backlash. Right? Like And I think it was coming for Oklahoma City, but, like, I think it's at fever pitch now. Like, why do you, why do you think that this is the time for the. The collective backlash against this team?
- [39:56]
Howard Beck
So, I mean, this has been building for a while, right? Almost every team that wins their first championship, especially a younger team, you're the darlings until you're not. We saw that with the warriors, and in their case, it was, you know, exacerbated by adding Kevin Durant and this. The embarrassment of riches and all the, the feelings that went with it.
- [40:15]
Logan Murdoch
It was hating people.
- [40:17]
Howard Beck
People were not happy. But. And, you know, look, I, you guys know I covered the Shaq and Kobe era, and Shaq and Kobe were villains to just about the entire country other than Laker fans. That's how a lot of these things go. And especially when they won three in a row. And especially because. And look, in their case, there was bitching about officiating there, too. You know, game six, 2002 Western Conference finals, might ring a bell for some people. And so there's always going to be a backlash when you're dominant, and there's a perception that you're getting the benefit of the doubt or the benefit from officials. The Lakers thing last night was weird just because two nights ago now, I guess, technically. Hi. It's 1:20 in the morning Eastern time on Saturday morning, ladies and gentlemen. Nice to be with you. Ross is really happy, but the, the. The Lakers have no ground, no standing in this at all to make this about officiating. I. Sorry to get back to. To that, just that one moment, but, like, the Thunder are a dramatically better team and are winning this series on the merits. Officiating has nothing to do with this. Does officiating have something to do with the way the Thunder are perceived? Yes, it is perceived that they get away with a lot because they're super physical, handsy defensive team, and they are. And when you play that way night in and night out and you test the refs and you push the envelope, you're going to get away with some stuff. Because they can't call everything. There's a philosophy to that. Jerry Sloan's Utah Jazz teams used to play this way back in the day. Right, Raja?
- [41:47]
Roger Bell
Correct.
- [41:48]
Logan Murdoch
So Bad boy Pistons.
- [41:50]
Howard Beck
Famous bad boy piss. I mean, yeah, like, there's always versions of this where, you know, the, the philosophy is just get into guys, make everything hard and make them uncomfortable. The refs can't possibly call every single infraction, and they won't. So there's a little bit of that. There's a little bit of the Shea foul drawing and all the backlash that's gone with that. Are the Thunder villains now? I don't know. I'll leave that to people who give a about such things and who actually want to paint them as villains. I don't know. I don't care. I do think that it's. There's. Nobody would care about their style of play, whether it's Shay or whether it's the, the defensive tenacity. No one would care about any of that if they weren't also awesome, if they weren't champions and heading toward potentially a second championship and potentially, while premature, a potential dynasty. If none of that were possible, nobody would care. Nobody be complaining about it and they couldn't be villains. It's only because they're also great. And that's the first part and that's the part that matters. And most champions, at some point, especially if you're a multiple time champion, there's eventually going to be a backlash behind it. The only one I can't really think or I don't really think had it. I don't think the Bulls had it because everybody, even if Michael kicked your team's ass, everybody loved Michael or at minimum respected the hell out of Michael. And the Bulls played this beautiful brand of. Of basketball. Michael and Scotty together were really fun to watch. Like, I don't feel like there was a back. What about the 90s?
- [43:12]
Logan Murdoch
Do you think there was? There probably was with the Showtime Lakers though, right?
- [43:15]
Howard Beck
I mean, yeah, there was. Right, because partially because they're la. Listen, I was still living in the Bay Area then and so yeah, like everybody, like, you know, of course we hated the Lakers because we lived in the Bay Area. That's what you do.
- [43:26]
Logan Murdoch
It's just, you know. Yeah, Howard.
- [43:28]
Howard Beck
But. But there wasn't anything really hateable about them, I guess. I mean like what would people have.
- [43:36]
Logan Murdoch
But also I think about what I think about with the Thunder, right? And I've been around them. They're not like annoying people by nature, right?
- [43:42]
Howard Beck
Like they don't even like, they're kind of bland.
- [43:44]
Logan Murdoch
If anything, bro, I, I tried to like, you know, bait them. When I interviewed him and I interviewed Chad and I asked him like about this backlash, right? Or perceived backlash. And this is a quote that Rogers are going to enjoy. He says, when you're ass, nobody cares about what you do, good or bad. So people are trying to put everything you do under a microscope. That means you're doing something well, and irrelevant. I think it's a compliment.
- [44:06]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Yeah. Like I say, if they weren't. If they weren't winning, if they weren't a threat to be back to back champions and everything else, nobody would care. So what do you.
- [44:16]
Logan Murdoch
Go ahead?
- [44:17]
Roger Bell
Well, yeah, I mean, this is neither here nor there, but like, I do. I do think, like I've said this before, I'll say it again. I would say that a bigger issue for me. I don't think it's. It's. The call is slanted one way or the other. But can we not all agree that they don't ref the playoffs the same way they ref the regular season games? Is this still a thing that we're still debating, like these games and when you, when you do that, this is just me. I guess I can't help but bash refs at times. But like, this might be a league thing too. I'm here for it. I'm here for the style of. I'm here for like. Did you guys see the play tonight? Wemby got tangled, but Stefan Castle had it out on the perimeter.
- [45:06]
Logan Murdoch
I'm sorry.
- [45:07]
Roger Bell
And he was trying to go and like, Jalen, you know, bumped him and then he got a switch and. And Julius Randall was on him and he bumped him. And then Wemby came up and set the screen and Julius Randle got like, knocked to the ground. And then, you know, a shot went up and Wemby got shoved in the back. And they ultimately got ant for like shoving Wemby in the back. But there are four regular season fouls in one possession and they didn't call any of them. And for me, like, you know, I don't care one way or the other. But that's bigger picture to me is like, look, man, pick us up. I understand why we have to do that. Like, I don't. Like, just like, I. I really don't. Maybe it's got something to do with like, pace of game or watchability during the regular. See, that's above my pay grade, but I think I've watched enough playoffs now, like, especially this year, like, they don't. They're not ref in that shit the
- [46:00]
Howard Beck
same way Stan Van Gundy said it read on the broadcast.
- [46:04]
Roger Bell
Did he tonight? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I missed that. But like, he. He ain't lied because that shit's different.
- [46:11]
Howard Beck
Yeah, he said it right straight up, the same way you. Same way you did, Raj.
- [46:16]
Logan Murdoch
Before I get to the last segment, I want to ask this because, you know, Lil Wayne tweeted this out and he said OKC game. Granted, Lil Wayne's Laker fan, but he said this. And this is mirroring a lot of the things that I've been hearing from people about OKC style of play. OKC games are unwatchable. The refs are even dressed in their colors right now. And I love you, Wayne, but Jesus. And I. But I've been getting texts about like, oh, the stylistic play of OKC is just unwatchable. And I'm like, dog, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this Is why I got off social, bro. Like, why do we do this? Why?
- [46:49]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I'm not going to do that with you, bro. You're telling. Stop. The soon to be two time MVP and what he does, what about that's unwatchable? Like, I'm not crazy.
- [47:00]
Logan Murdoch
Crazy not doing that. Okay, let's. Speaking of villains, Draymond Green has had a week where you guys all know what happened. I just want to ask, like, what is this? Well, I'll start with Howard. Like, what does this say about just like, soon to be retired players?
- [47:18]
Howard Beck
I. I've got a couple different answers about this Draymond week. The first one is that I don't really care. I don't care about his beef with Austin Rivers, and I don't care what he said to Chuck, and I don't care about what he said about Kerr holding him back offensively. And I think, oh, this is really stupid and overblown. So there's that.
- [47:41]
Logan Murdoch
Hold on. You pulled a 2021, Raja here. I wasn't expecting that, bro.
- [47:45]
Roger Bell
I don't care, Howard.
- [47:48]
Howard Beck
None of this really matters that much. Really. Like, it just doesn't. I know everybody's getting a lot of content out of it. Hallelujah. Great for fucking podcasts. Great for the aggregators. Great for a bunch of, like, random Instagram accounts that just, like, do nothing but, like, quote and cap and what, Whatever, it's fine. It's great. It's really not that interesting to me. And I really don't think any of it matters. And I think the only thing that's even remotely interesting is when Draymond does retire in a year or two or whenever it comes. And it does seem like, you know, his podcast aside, because your podcast is your own thing and he's always just going to be who he is on his pod. You know, you do have to find a way to channel the best of it, the most interesting parts of yourself, and try to do it with a little bit of sense of humor. And I think Humility when you're in studio. Now, I don't know if inside the NBA is going to exist by the time Draymond retires, but he's gonna be in studio somewhere, I think. Amazon, NBC, Peacock, espn, whatever. And I think the. The lesson here, if there is one at all, with his exchange with Chuck, is what. What's made Chuck so much fun over the years? Why is this guy been, like, a broadcasting legend? You want to kick it with him 20 something? Yeah. Like, is he funny and irreverent? Yeah. And. Yeah. And will he say whatever's on his mind to be straight? Yeah. And Draymond is also, like, a straight talker, truth teller type, but Chuck can laugh at himself and has a certain humility about him and a good natured sensibility that I know Draymond has in him. But I certainly was not in evidence in that particular exchange, and I think it's why that's drawn some fire. So I don't give a. About almost any of this that happened this week. I certainly don't give a. About the back and forth with Austin Rivers, with all due respect to both gentlemen, who I like, but I. I think that when Draymond eventually transitions into a TV role, I think he's gonna need to, like, you know, kind of just reformat himself a little bit and maybe be a little bit lighter.
- [49:59]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I. I agree with you. I know. I know Roz didn't have anything to say about this, so I'm just gonna.
- [50:05]
Roger Bell
I actually do, though. What? I actually do because I think this, like.
- [50:10]
Logan Murdoch
Like, it wasn't this.
- [50:13]
Roger Bell
No, no, no, no. No worries. No worries at all. Because I am ready to go to bed, like, as my son's just walked in. We're good. I'm. I don't.
- [50:19]
Howard Beck
How much trouble they. How much trouble they in for being a half hour late?
- [50:23]
Logan Murdoch
No, they weren't half.
- [50:23]
Roger Bell
No, no. 1:30. They came in here at 127, Howard.
- [50:27]
Howard Beck
Oh, I thought you said one was the. Was the.
- [50:30]
Roger Bell
No, no, no.
- [50:31]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, man, don't get my nephews in trouble for no reason, okay? They're fine. They're okay.
- [50:36]
Roger Bell
And are you like. I have a heart. Like, when they're. I don't know about you, Howard, but, like, when. When Dia's away at school, I'm typically, like, I'm in bed when I normally have to be in bed. It's not a problem. There's this weird thing when they're in town and they're out.
- [50:50]
Howard Beck
It's different.
- [50:50]
Roger Bell
I don't. It's different until they're home.
- [50:52]
Logan Murdoch
Dude.
- [50:53]
Howard Beck
It. No, it is absolutely a thing. It is different. And she's coming home next week. We're going down to pick her up in a couple of days. And it is different when they're home, and especially because we live in New York. So if she's out late in New York. Yeah. Worry a little bit more than when she's in the little college town she's in.
- [51:12]
Roger Bell
Say less. I could not imagine. I couldn't imagine. But let me. Let me just. Let me. The Austin. The Austin Draymond thing, I'm not going to weigh in on, like, but I think it's an interesting thing because, like, we. I often get into this space with you guys sometimes about, like, what a fan thinks, like, an accomplished NBA champion is as a Hooper versus what? Like, someone that might not have the same, like, accolades as an NBA player in terms of hardware is as a Hooper. And what a Hooper looks at those two and might make the determination differently about them because one's got a skill set that the other doesn't have. I found that dynamic really interesting there. Right. Like, Draymond was kind of like, you know, like, the NBA career, the championships, this and that, and Austin was coming at him like, yo, my man. My. My resume, like, in terms of, like, you know, high school athletes, who I was rankings, what I'm able to do with a basketball. It's not even a comparison. Yeah, it was really.
- [52:11]
Logan Murdoch
It was kind of B Rabbit.
- [52:12]
Roger Bell
Yeah, that was really interesting to me. I found that. I found that really. I found it interesting. I was kind of locked in more so, you know, I'm rarely locked into those things, but I was watching that back and forth pretty intently. And just that look, the truck of it all. It was probably, like, I heard it was a joke. Like, I guess it was a joke.
- [52:29]
Logan Murdoch
Like, it was a joke that didn't land.
- [52:31]
Roger Bell
It didn't. And it's okay. It's all right. Like, that happens. But you're right, Howard. Like, why Chuck and those dudes and. And, you know, my favorite. I don't hang out with a lot of NBA guys post NBA career. People ask me all the time. I don't. A lot of them take themselves. No, but I have. I have some friends. But, like, a lot of them take themselves way too serious for me. Like, there's no level of self deprecation there. There's no ability to, like, it's just it. And that's just me as a human being. Like, that doesn't mean everyone gets turned off by that, but I do. And so, like, I always find the dudes that I like to be around and I like to watch have that ability, right, to, like, not take themselves too seriously all the time. Sure, sometimes, but, like, not all the time. And, like, I think Chuck navigates that space really well. Shaq, who has no problem telling you like, that he was the diesel, but still has the ability to, like, laugh and joke at himself and stuff like that. Like, that's what I like. And, yeah, Draymond, I think, will develop into that. Like, this wasn't easy for anybody the first time they got on this side of the microphone, coming from that, you know, side of the microphone. And he's great at it. He just missed the mark on that one. So, like, he'll be fine.
- [53:53]
Howard Beck
A quick observation on that, though, Raja. And I think you can probably attest to this. I think one of the reasons, and I don't think people have keyed in on this, the reason it's hard for him to have the humility or the self deprecation right now is he's still fucking playing. And so the pride and the ego are still at the forefront, because that's what you have to have while you're competing.
- [54:13]
Roger Bell
Chuck, that's a good point.
- [54:14]
Howard Beck
I'm sure in Year one probably didn't have as good a sense of humor about you never won championships, and the fact that that's become a running joke with him and Shaq and that. That's Shaq's thing about always lording that over him as part of their shtick. And Draymond was literally sitting in Shaq's seat the other night trying to pull almost the same thing. But it lands a little different when you don't have the built up history on that set, and it lands a little differently in your delivery. And, yeah, and Draymond is still in it, and he is still trying to extend this thing. And Chuck just said, you're not doing it. It's done, it's over. And Draymond's feeling, Steph's feeling, which we talked about for the story I did back in January, is like, no, we still believe we can do this thing. We get Jimmy healthy, we get this crew back together, talk Steve Curry to coach in another year or two, and they still believe, and so they're still chasing it. And so his ego is still invested. And I think five years from now, Draymond on that same set, whichever set he's on, will probably hear a little bit different version of it, because I Know Draymond enough to know, like, the dude does have a sense of humor and he does have self awareness and he does have some humility, but I think it's tough when you're still in it.
- [55:14]
Roger Bell
Yeah, no, that's fair. I don't know him like that. And proximity is a real thing. Sorry, go ahead, Logan.
- [55:18]
Logan Murdoch
I'm a little dubious that he's gonna kind of just all of a sudden, like, bring that charisma out that we see. Like, I just am, because I feel like when he gets. I feel like he's gonna have a tougher time on television, but on podcasting, I think he's gonna do great because we are in a rage bait society right now. And everything that he has, like, kind of marked.
- [55:42]
Howard Beck
Oh, he got that rage out of Austin Rivers.
- [55:44]
Logan Murdoch
He surely did. But, like, like, that's what I'm saying, though, right? Like, throughout his podcast, it's been. I am going to talk about the thing that is going to get me the most listeners. I am going to go at this person.
- [55:56]
Roger Bell
Like, I.
- [55:56]
Logan Murdoch
If somebody slights me, I'm going to be the first one to do it. That's the. That's the Draymond thing. But that's also what Stephen A. Does. That's the mold that Cam Newton, all these guys are kind of doing. They pick a topic that are perk there, which was also hilarious in that same Inside the NBA that they got a perk joke off on. On Draymond. It was almost like the. The establishment of Inside the NBA kind of had to put. Put Draymond in his place, which was kind of hilarious. But I am dubious that he could do that. He can translate what we see in locker rooms on the television, because I just don't. I. I think he's always going to have to have a score to settle, because that's just him and his nature, right? Like, it's what's gotten him to this point. And he's. He's also, like, has people on pins and needle with Golden State because of that in the building, because of that same stuff. Like, he has to always settle scores. And I don't think that you can just turn that off when you've done this your whole life and this is the reason why you're here. Like, Chuck is. Was always kind of this easy going. Not to say he wouldn't. You know, Chuck's exploits are well documented, but for all intents and purposes, he's always been kind of known as a guy that you always want to kick it with. Draymond has not always had that reputation throughout his career. In fact, it's kind of teeters on the opposite. So I just don't know if you can just turn. Flip that switch off just because you out of the league. Like, I. I specifically for him, I think that he's always gonna have to settle some type of score, and he's always gonna have to be in front of a microphone. So I don't know how television is going to be for him. I think this new podcast, Lane is going to be probably what he's better at, because just the environment right now is better suited for what he likes to do, which is settle score.
- [57:38]
Roger Bell
Course.
- [57:40]
Logan Murdoch
So we'll see.
- [57:43]
Roger Bell
We will. We shall.
- [57:45]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. Last time before we got out here, we did 57 minutes, so we have to do real one of the weak. Rajabel. It's only like three minutes, bro. It's. I just gotta get you a solid hour. Jesus Christ. You want to just get your real one of the week right out? Is it your kids for getting in there on time?
- [57:59]
Roger Bell
I don't have one. I don't have one.
- [58:01]
Logan Murdoch
Okay.
- [58:02]
Roger Bell
I need a minute.
- [58:03]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna just go with Tony Brothers, bro, who. Who, like, had to get held back by.
- [58:08]
Howard Beck
By. That was
- [58:13]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Chris.
- [58:14]
Logan Murdoch
All right.
- [58:14]
Roger Bell
Like, hold. What the are we doing, man? Like, what the is.
- [58:24]
Logan Murdoch
Like, what are we really.
- [58:26]
Roger Bell
Like, what are we doing?
- [58:27]
Logan Murdoch
I like Tony's doing. I just find him hilarious. He's like every OG I've ever met at a basketball court.
- [58:35]
Howard Beck
That was old school, man. That was like. That was like Joey Crop. Like, that was. That was throwback, man. That was like.
- [58:42]
Roger Bell
Problem is, though, you ain't no old head at the basketball court. Old head at the basketball court doing that is hooping. You are old head standing off on the side, like, chiming in on some. You ain't got nothing to do with this.
- [58:59]
Logan Murdoch
That's my room of the week.
- [59:00]
Roger Bell
Respectfully, Tony Brothers, who you love,
- [59:05]
Howard Beck
I think.
- [59:05]
Logan Murdoch
Roger, are you Facebook friends with Tony brothers?
- [59:08]
Roger Bell
I love Tony Tony. I actually like Tony. Tony was one of my dudes. But I did catch that tonight. I'm like, yo, you're tweaking, bro.
- [59:14]
Logan Murdoch
That is wilder.
- [59:17]
Roger Bell
Whoa, whoa.
- [59:17]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, sorry.
- [59:18]
Roger Bell
All right.
- [59:20]
Logan Murdoch
I'm sorry. All right, Howard.
- [59:23]
Howard Beck
All right. I. I'm going to hit a slightly different note for real one of the week this time.
- [59:29]
Roger Bell
There you go.
- [59:31]
Howard Beck
My real one of the week is Dave Bonner and the entire Bonner family. Dave Bonner is the father of Matt Bonner, who, of course, played and Won a couple championships with the Spurs. Luke Bonner, who played in the then development league, D league and overseas, and Becky Bonner, who is now in the front office in basketball ops with the Orlando Magic. Dave Bonner, their father passed away a couple days ago. I know Becky, Matt, and Luke through different channels. And I wrote a big story about Becky for Bleacher report back in 2017 when she first got into the Magic's front office. I was writing about the wave of women who were moving into basketball ops, and she was kind of at the forefront of that. And as a result of or as part of doing that story, I got a chance to. I mean, I talked to all three, you know, Becky, Matt and Luke. But I got on the phone with their parents, with Dave and Paula, and they were just absolutely wonderful. And Dave was like, just really funny, really warm hearted. Never got a chance to meet him in person. But I had just awesome chat with them, interview with them for the story. And I pulled up the obituary today just to see what was written. And like, he was so, like, Dave Bonner was like a postal worker, you know, mailman basically. And they described him in, in the, in the obit obit as everyone's favorite mail carrier in Concord. Concord, New Hampshire, as I'm reading from it now, as a letter carrier for the usps, he didn't just deliver mail. He delivered warmth, conversation, one liners, and the kind of genuine human connection that people remember for a lifetime. He also worked as a taxi driver, a Hampton beach nightclub bouncer, and a corrections officer. Dude just sounded real as fucking hell, man. And like I said, I knew him for maybe 15 minutes on a phone conversation, but he raised three amazing kids who have all had, you know, great careers in and around basketball and just, you know, my condolences and thoughts with the family. So Dave Bonner, my real one of the week.
- [61:34]
Roger Bell
No doubt ruin. No doubt. Rest in peace. It's hard to follow Howard. Do I get. Do I get.
- [61:42]
Howard Beck
I'm sorry. I was trying to end with it because I figured you had already kind of skipped, so I thought I'd be last, but yeah, my bad.
- [61:49]
Roger Bell
That's a tough one. Matt Bonner went to Florida. My sister went to Florida. So I know. I've known and watched Matt for a long time. I don't know his siblings, though. Go. I could have gone a lot of places with this. I'm gonna go with. Not friend of the show. Okay. Not friend of the show. Stephen Nash.
- [62:07]
Logan Murdoch
No, he's not. Oh, no, he's not.
- [62:09]
Roger Bell
Not friend of the show. And I hope he's listening, because he's not a friend of the show, but he did come through his Uncle Steve this past week. He's uncle over here in Phoenix. Yeah, we were out in Phoenix, and, you know, Ty and I were going out to meet Dia as he got out of, like, his school for the summer, and he had some business in Phoenix before we came home. And I hit Uncle Steve to see if he might give Ty, you know, some jewels and get in the gym and work with him and really kind of like, you know, impart some wisdom on him. And he gave Ty just a beautiful, like, session and work and a whole lot of things for him to think about in his game and a whole lot of tools that he could use, kind of moving forward, challenges that he could kind of put in place for himself to try to level up, and they kind of hit it off, and it was really beautiful to watch. And Ty was just so excited and so thankful for the opportunity, and I'm thankful and excited that Steve did that for him. So real one of the week, Uncle Stephen Nash.
- [63:15]
Logan Murdoch
Nice. That's what's up, man.
- [63:16]
Roger Bell
Not a friend of the show.
- [63:18]
Logan Murdoch
He knows what he needs to do to be a friend of the show. He knows what he needs to do, but he just keeps this playing in our face. Rajan, I'm sick of it.
- [63:26]
Howard Beck
Yes.
- [63:26]
Logan Murdoch
I'm sick of it, dude. I'm gonna see him at some point.
- [63:29]
Roger Bell
Yeah. Yo, his. His youngins, they're good deal little athletes. Real deal.
- [63:35]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, I'm looking at this video right now, and Raja, Elite jorts right there, buddy. Just elite jorts. Elite. Look at the video you sent, bro. Look at it.
- [63:46]
Roger Bell
Yes.
- [63:47]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, bro. Low top Jordans, though. Lower top Jordan ones, baby.
- [63:52]
Roger Bell
Low top J ones.
- [63:54]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, dog.
- [63:55]
Roger Bell
What about my proportions there with the shirt?
- [63:58]
Logan Murdoch
All right, I thought it was. I thought it was. I thought it was 1997, bro. You know, which is actually in these streets. You guys did it in Phoenix at the practice. What did it practice? Nice, man.
- [64:11]
Roger Bell
Listen, bro, let's look. Let me keep it a buck, man. I got to see.
- [64:15]
Logan Murdoch
I should have wondered, you guys, bro,
- [64:18]
Roger Bell
I got to see, like, our. One of our old trainers, Mike Elliott. Like, I got to see him, which was dope. He was over at another facility working on Steve earlier in the day. Then I went to the. The practice facility. That whole area. Like, I ain't been there in forever, bro.
- [64:31]
Logan Murdoch
The hotel over there is nice, too.
- [64:32]
Roger Bell
Oh, so, so, so dope, man. But, like, our old equipment guy, Jay Gaspar, is Still there. I did not know that Jay brought gifts for Ty and I and blessed us with some, like, some. Some son's gear. I mean, it was. It was really a dope. Like, it was dope to be back, man. The sun.
- [64:48]
Logan Murdoch
Can you finally. Can you finally admit that you have a home?
- [64:53]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I've never debated that. Like, I. Like, I love Phoenix. I love Phoenix. It's just, you know, you got to be somewhere for a certain amount of time to really be considered. Like, but, like, I love Phoenix.
- [65:02]
Logan Murdoch
Not even every time I go to Phoenix, there's at least one person whenever I go to Phoenix, and I go to Phoenix quite a bit, like, at least once a year, and they're like, yo, Raja, we love him. We love him. I was. I, I. I just saw Gambo a couple weeks ago. Loves rock.
- [65:21]
Roger Bell
Feelings mutual. I love Phoenix, too. I don't get back often, but I love it. It was great to be back.
- [65:26]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. All right, well, ruin of the week, Steve Nash not front of the podcast.
- [65:32]
Roger Bell
It's so disappointing.
- [65:33]
Logan Murdoch
So crazy, bro. He just plays in our face every time you want to come on the pod. Yeah, I'll be there next week when you need it. No text back. No text you back. That's fine. Wow. That's how we're gonna end the pod. It's been another edition of Real Ones After Dark. Apparently, the last one. I don't know, bro. Last one for. Just soak it all in, man. We'll see you guys.
- [65:58]
Roger Bell
Good, bro.
- [66:00]
Logan Murdoch
See, See, I'm. We're keeping this together with duct tape and just love. That's where we're at right now. Love you guys. See you guys next week. Ah, all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino are 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-G GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in Connecticut or visit MD Gambling Help in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-Hopeny or text Hope NY New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-7707.