Logan Murdock (2:57)

Okay. All right. For sure. For sure. Okay.

Raja Bell (3:00)

4K. We've said this before. Howard Logan. Like 4K is not. Is not where you want to be living. 45 plus with no team to get you ready. Like 40. That's tough.

Logan Murdock (3:14)

Yeah. I'll be looking at back at the video and I'd be like this hella boogers and that they're showing on here. Like just. Just eye gunk.

Raja Bell (3:21)

Like yeah, that's crazy. Boogers is crazy. But even in studio you're like that camera catches you at like a. I don't know, seven foot, eight foot. This bad boy is two feet away from the face. It's just. So if you ever want to go less than 4k, I don't think you have to ask Howard or I. I think I.

Logan Murdock (3:40)

Okay, all right. All right. For sure. I don't have a transition for what I'm about to say. I've been thinking about one as you were talking. But we're going to talk about Victor Womenyama. Just basically putting.

Raja Bell (3:50)

He plays. Okay.

Logan Murdock (3:54)

Good job, Good job. There you go. He was asked about MVP last night and he said, quote, I have thought about it. I think right now there is a debate. There should be. Even though I think I should lead the race, I'm trying to make sure at the end of the season there's no debate. He's actually like giving in real time. This is a great quote. One of the first reasons I should be MVP is that defense is 50% of the game and that is undervalued so far in the MVPs. Right now I believe I'm the most impactful player defensively in the league. Second argument would be that we almost swept OKC in the season series and we dominated them three times with their real team. The third argument would be that offensive impact is not just in points. We go down the panel. I'm going to start with Howard. I'm going to go Araja. What do we think about when's the last time that we have seen a player just outwardly put their bid in for mvp? And what does that say about Womenyama?

Howard Beck (4:52)

I feel like there's at least once a year, maybe every couple of years where somebody will just outright say it. You now it's usually their coach, right? It's usually the coach like somewhere around early mid March. You know, we'll just like go off on some tangent that was not even asked about it, right? But it'd been like a pregame. And by the way, guys, I don't know if you've noticed, but, you know, Luca or fill in the blank, whoever is leading the league and scoring, I don't know why he's not getting more run for mvp. Like, you'll get that. You'll get like the sort of passive aggressive, cutesy little campaigning from the coach or sometimes it's somebody's teammate doing it. Like, just using the opportunity to kind of like, lightly scold the media or the. The public at large for not giving my guy enough credit. Advocating for it yourself is a bold move at age whatever, 22, but I don't think we should be surprised. This is ev. This is what we should know about Wemby by now. He's. He's going to talk the talk and walk the walk. And there's like, he doesn't leave any doubt on the court about what he's capable of doing both ends of the court. And he's right to say that we often overlook defense in this discussion, right? Like, look, the history of MVPs, it's mostly guys who are like 90% offense, right? Like, we talked about this, I think, last week, like James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Dirk Nowitzki, Raj's guy, Steve Nash. Like, most of these guys won it because they were just awesome, awesome offensive players. And Wimby is awesome offensively, but he doesn't have the gaudy stats that, say, Luka Shay and Jokic have statistically, because we still don't have great stats to quantify defense other than if you want to go old school block shots and steals. And, oh, boy, he's like, killing them all in those categories, right? He's averaging three blocks a game. Nobody else that I mentioned in the MVP race is even averaging a block a game. But that's not their roles. I love it. I love it.

Raja Bell (6:47)

The.

Howard Beck (6:47)

The short version is Wemby's an absolute legit MVP candidate right now, and I love that he is actually stumping for it in his kind of, like, confident, but somehow not egotistical way. It doesn't sound obnoxious.

Logan Murdock (7:02)

Push back on that. I watched it. It's definitely egotistical. You gotta kind of be egotistical.

Howard Beck (7:06)

There's a line between confidence and ego.

Logan Murdock (7:09)

That's. It's very thin. It's very thin. Raja, what do you think?

Raja Bell (7:15)

Yeah, I mean, I kind of. I kind of agree with Howard. Like, I. I think it's kind of refreshing. I think that's part of the reason why everyone can see Wemby being the face of the NBA so easily moving forward, it's that he wants things like this. It's that he wants to win at the All Star Game, is that he wants the mvp. And he's going to tell you why he thinks he should get the mvp. You know, he's not afraid to say and do things that historically, like, have kind of been a little taboo. To Howard's point, it's been a coach or a teammate or somebody else that lobbies for you in that. I kind of dig that. And I find him. There is a fine line between arrogance and. Or not arrogance, but, like, egotistical, you know, behavior and confidence. But, like, it's so weird how public perception, when it just shapes what you can or can't be for a league and other players coming off like that, immediate, oh, this guy's a dick. Oh, look at him. When Wemby does it, we don't have that visceral kind of effect. It doesn't have that visceral effect on me. Like, it doesn't come across like that, whether that's right or wrong. And it may to some people, but to me, when he's doing these things, it doesn't project the way it does when other people do it. And I think that's a big part of when a league's looking at people and trying to figure out who's going to champion the movement going forward. I think that plays a big role in it. I think his argument is slightly flawed, though. I mean, they did beat them three times. He does get the statistical kind of stat filling numbers to support a defensive player of the year or the defensive component of MVP because he gets the blocks and whatnot. Shea's a really good defender, too. Like, that's why big men dominate that particular, you know, award the defensive player of the year, because you can quantify what they're doing defensively, like a. A wing player. It's harder to do that in some instances, but Shay's no slouch on the defensive end either. And then, you know, offensively, Wemby's great, but Shay's the best. One of the. I mean, Lucas out of his mind. So Jokic. But, like, they're. He's one of the top three players in the league offensively in terms of maneuvering around the court, dictating defense, setting teammates up, using his leverage to free other people. Like, he. He is unworldly. Wemby's on his way, but he's not. He's not SGA right now. So, like, I love it. I mean, he's got it. He's got a case. I. We were talking about it a few weeks ago. If they were to somehow, you know, overtake them in the standings, I. I think he's got a really strong case. But right now, I. I don't. I don't think that. I don't think that he should be the mvp. I like the fact that he's championing for himself. I do see some flaws in the argument.

Logan Murdock (10:06)

I was. I was talking to somebody last night. I saw Luca play last night, and I was thinking about Luka being a guy that puts the fear of God in another team, a singular guy that does that in a playoff setting. And I was asking a longtime, legendary NBA writer, who are the other guys do you think that can actually do that? And they said Jokic and maybe Wimby and I kind of pushed back on. Would be just because we haven't seen it before. But what are we expecting out of him in the playoffs? Right. This particular playoffs were his first one where. I mean, it's one thing to. I love that he said they beat OKC three times in the regular season. And that. That's like. That is something like that. That sends a message, but it ultimately doesn't mean shit. What does he have to prove to you guys, and what are we expecting from Wimby in his first postseason? I'll start with how,

Howard Beck (11:04)

first of all, because of the NBA cup and all the weirdness of that and how it affects the schedule, they're actually four in one the season.

Logan Murdock (11:11)

Oh, yeah. Versus Oklahoma.

Howard Beck (11:14)

That's impressive. I mean. I mean, I. I don't. I don't know how other. How many other teams you have to combine in their season series to get to four wins against the Thunder? Probably four other teams. I. I don't know if anybody's even beaten them twice. Anybody else. I have not looked it up so listeners can. Can fill it in. I. I think the spurs have absolutely shown that. Experience aside, they're one of the best teams in the league. Wemby has shown he's one of the best players in the league. He's in the MVP race, and I don't even feel like we need to analyze it much beyond that. As far as the top line goes, what do we expect from him in the playoffs? The same. I think what we have seen from the spurs team and one of the reasons that they're this strong is experience aside, the talent and the confidence are just there. They don't play like a young team. They don't, they don't get rattled like a young team. And the playoffs are different and we always say that. Cause it's true and it usually holds. But like I'm not looking at the spurs going to the playoffs thinking like, oh, we should keep our expectations low because they haven't done it before. No, I'm looking at them as a team that's only three games behind the Thunder in the standings right now, that is firmly in the number two seed at worst. And I absolutely expect to make the conference finals at minimum. I like you could start lining it up right now if the season ends right now. Right. You've got like, you know, Thunder versus the eighth seed. Say it's the Clippers after the play in spurs vs. The Suns. And then you've got the, you know, the middle, the middle group. So Denver and Minnesota. The winner of that's playing Oklahoma and the winner of Lakers Rockets is playing the Spurs. Do I think the spurs are going to beat the Lakers or the Rockets in a series? I do. Is that, I don't mean that as disrespect to Luca or Luca LeBron and Austin Reeves or anything else. I think that what the Lakers have done, the nine game streak ends last night. But like they are looking really good. I just think that Wemby and that group are ready and I absolutely expect them to make the conference finals.

Raja Bell (13:25)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do too, Howard. I've, I've said that before. While I have OKC and San Antonio basically in a, in a tier just above the Lakers, I think there's a much more significant chance that, that San Antonio gets knocked out before the Western Conference finals than okc. I, I have said before that I'm not as worried about them as a young team having to go through the playoff, you know, trials and errors that a team usually has to go through on their way to a championship. I think they're kind of built for the moment, but you don't know what you don't know. And you know, typically you think, you know, until you get in there and the bullets start flying and you know, everything is ratcheted up a level and the calibration or the time that it takes to calibrate to that no one can really predict. You know, that just has to take its, you know, it's got to run its course in real time. And so I tend to agree with you, Howard. And I don't know that Wemby has to prove anything. Wemby is on his way to being everything that he was projected to be. The spurs are on their way as a team, so I would agree with most of what you said. I think playoffs for them is just a little trickier than people are giving it credit for, and it's not a knock on their team in any way, shape or form. I am a believer, but something in my gut says, like, they could wind up being down 2:1 in an early series that we didn't see, and then you're going to see what they're made of. Like, they, you know, people come back from that and win and go on, but, like, they could wind up with that hiccup early in a way that a young team might, and they're probably good enough to overcome it. But. But I'm just. There's something in me that I can't get over. Like, hey, man, watch out for somebody. Early jumping on them and them not being all the way ready for that doesn't mean they'll lose the series. But that puts you in a really precarious situation. Like, you guys know that, right? Like, you're. You're the better team. Everybody knows you're the better team, but somebody came out and punched you in the mouth. And I worry about that in that way, just a little bit, but definitely way more than I worry about okc.

Logan Murdock (15:34)

I agree with that. That's also my reservation with them, too, because I just don't know. I. I haven't seen him face any adversity on that type of stage before, and that's really nitpicking and it's splitting hairs, but, you know, we'll see what happens. One team that I want to talk about, and this is one where this is also. Raja, if you ever. If you want to get, you know, a little, you know, take the wheel and go wherever you want to go with this, this is your chance. You just go. Whatever you're. We're. We're in the backseat of the car, but what the hell is going on with the Houston Rockets? Can we just. Can we. Can we talk through this as a. As a. As a podcast right now? Because they lost to the Bulls last night. Wolves are a team that are trying to lose. They were down 20. Demi Udoka gets ejected. Called the ref soft, but I think. I think he was talking about his own team more than anything. He's pissed off after everything that the Rockets were supposed to be, to see them just down bad as they are right now. I. They just a first round knockout waiting to happen because they Got the Lakers right now. I think Lakers definitely got my control over Debo right now. As it pertains to the Houston Rockets. I don't think the Rockets want any parts of the Lakers whatsoever, but I think any team can pretty much beat them right now because they just look so fractured as a, as a, as a basketball organization.

Raja Bell (16:53)

Yeah,

Logan Murdock (16:55)

I apologize.

Raja Bell (16:57)

Yeah, no, I'm looking at where they're going to fall and they probably don't drop to seven. That gives you. Yeah, I'm with you, Logan, because going up to five or four, if you were to catch the two teams in front of you doesn't. I mean that's just putting you up against a Denver or Minnesota. They're going to beat you. Bowling to seven is going to basically put you with the Lakers. They're going to beat you. Yeah, they're in a really, they're in a tough spot. Vibes are low.

Cliff (17:24)

What are they?

Raja Bell (17:24)

5 and 5 over the last 10. They've done a remarkable job this year of maximizing, maximizing their personnel and stylistically how they have to play to win games. So we might not love, you know, the fact that they're not playing great basketball right now, but I'd argue, you know, they had overachieved, you know, for, for a large portion of the season. It's really, really, really difficult to play at a championship level without a proven like floor general point guard, without someone who's sitting in that chair from night to night and you're going to win games. And they were sengun bringing it up. You know, they ham and egged it all year. But, and look, Reed shepherd. And they're getting better. But, but, and I don't mean to marginalize everything and just simplify it to not having a point guard, but like they, they need a pg. They need someone who can orchestrate offense. They need someone that could set the table. They need someone that can control tempo. They need someone that is a big shot maker down the stretch to compliment Sengun and kd. Like those are things that they need and they had it. Fred Van Vliet. When KD went there, Fred Van Vliet was in place. That's what you need. And in its absence, I don't think it's fair to see them in the same championship light as you would have seen them with him. And honestly, early in the season I did. Cause I thought if they got their paws on you when they were playing at the height of their powers as a, as a defensive grind you out physical unit, like they could threaten Some people, but they're not at the height of their powers now in that sense. Like they're not playing like they were playing early in the season. And so for that reason, yeah, I don't see much of a playoff run coming out of them. But if you could just plug one piece in, it unlocks so much more on your roster and they just don't have that piece of Howard.

Logan Murdock (19:17)

What do they do in the future? Like, this team is kind of is who it is right now and they're definitely a team that has pushed the button too early. I think we can all agree on that. Right? With the KD trade, it's not necessarily was a bad trade, but you basically just supercharged what you want to do and to be in contention. Now this is the team that you have, the vibes are what they are. If they have an early playoff exit, what do you do this off season?

Howard Beck (19:44)

I don't know if they push the button too early. I mean, I, I, I think you had two young pieces that you're really excited about, two foundational pieces in Shangun and, and Amen Thompson and a bunch of other really good players. And you know, they, you know that they, they got their butts kicked in the first round in the playoffs last year. You swap out like Dylan Brooks was having a great season before he broke his hand. Jalen Green is Jalen Green. But like you swapped those two guys for KD for a couple years of kd. Like I don't have a problem with that. You didn't to push the button now. So I don't really have an issue with, with that at all. They're going to potentially end up in the exact same place that they were last year out in the first round. So it's going to look like, all right, you know, where's the progress here? We, we traded for a Hall of Famer who just passed Michael Jordan on the all time scoring list. And you know, KD was awesome last night. Offensively, all of them were. Shengun had a 33 point triple double with 16 for 19 from the field. Shengu, I mean, just incredible. But they just, this is a team that had been built under Eme Doka as, as a defensive team as and at that identity seems to have really just eroded over the last several weeks here. And that, you know, you giving up 41 points to the Bulls in the first quarter, like, what are you doing? So yeah, like there's something amiss there. I don't, I'm not going to say this is like all about burner gate and all that. I bet you there's just. There's something with this team that is just off. And Raja's right. Like we've talked about it ad nauseum since the start of the season. They never got a replacement for Van Vliet. Does Van Vliet coming back healthy next season just fix everything? No, but it goes a long way toward giving them some organization and some, some half court, you know, coherence. But, yeah, this team just doesn't look functional right now. The talent is there and look, they could win a first round series. Like they, they may surprise us. The. The talent is there, but right now they look like less than the sum of their parts.

Logan Murdock (21:46)

One thing that you said over when the, when the deal happened, Raja was Amin needs to take a leap. And you weren't very confident he could take the leap, at least this season. Right. And it wasn't because he was bad or out. Out on him by any means. It was more so like, this isn't the year where he takes that. And the reason why I said, like, the button was probably super. The button was pressed too early, at least in my opinion, is because whenever you put Kevin Durant on your roster, you're competing for titles already. Right. And also it feels like him with Amin kind of stunts his growth. Right? Like he's not actually able to, you know, get to the spots that he wants to get to. With Kevin Durant on the team, how does he find himself in this new normal?

Raja Bell (22:32)

Yeah, it's a, I mean, it's a good question. Logan. You know, when I watch him play, I'm not sure that he was ready to take that next step in his game this year. So, you know, I think my point would be while, yes, you're right, that a Kevin Durant would stunt his ability to kind of know, broaden the scope of his offensive repertoire and continue to develop some pieces of his game because Kevin's doing those things. I watched him play early in the season and they. It was kind of a blank slate at that point. A couple of their first games, I mean, I think we potted about it and I was really intently watching to see how that offense was going to run, who was going to do what. And he had a. Basically it was a ball of clay. He could have made whatever he wanted to make out of his offensive, you know, role on that team. It was a game against okc. I remember specifically because I text you guys and I was like, he doesn't look like he wants to do that. It wasn't an issue of someone else was doing it and he couldn't get his hands on it. It was more like they keep giving it to him and he doesn't really want to do that. In that particular game, it manifested itself in just shooting wide open, you know, range jump shots or, you know, getting to pull ups if you didn't want to shoot it from, from 20ft, just, just exploring that part of your game. And he didn't look completely comfortable early in the season. So to your point about kd, like, normally, yeah, he would infringe upon his ability to do that, but I'm okay with him just in this one year sample size, playing with KD and working on that behind the scenes, working with kd, who's as good as there is in the league. I mean, if you're going to have to learn from someone to play as a rangy long wing defender, offensively, there may be nobody better than KD to learn from.

Logan Murdock (24:29)

So while it might not manifest, might be the most talented offensive player we've ever seen.

Raja Bell (24:33)

Yeah. So, like, I'm okay with him taking another year of like, apprenticeship, if you will, with KD offensively, you know, if, if that's going to manifest itself in, in showing up on the court, you know, next year. But you never know. You, you. We think everyone has these skill sets and these toolboxes and we project what they should be and you never really know what's going on in someone's head, what they, you know. I'm not saying that he has a mental hurdle at all, but we've seen people have mental hurdles. You've seen people have issues developing into that, which we think they should be because of all these physical, you know, tools that they have. I don't think that's going to be the issue with Amen. But you can never predict it. I think that's my point. Right. I didn't have a problem with, with, with him not fully taking all the jumpers and exploring his offensive repertoire this year if they were going to be in a quest for winning a championship, which I deemed they had the opportunity to do when healthy. Right. So I didn't have an organizational issue with that because with Fred Van Vliet, I think they are a team. Do I, do I have them in the same, you know, I don't know. I can't predict where I'd have them right now because I don't know what they're doing. But I had them in the upper echelon of the Western Conference teams. That I, that I would tell you could strike and have a chance if they're playing good basketball, to win a championship without the opportunity to do that, you know, down the stretch, yeah, maybe I would have liked to have seen him bite off a little bit more of the offensive role. He certainly next year, regardless, has to start stepping into that world. If he wants to become that player next year, he's on the clock to start sharing some of those responsibilities. I don't, I don't think that's debatable.

Logan Murdock (26:18)

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Howard Beck (26:34)

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Logan Murdock (28:35)

you're ready to love the way you look. All right man, before we get to mail back, I think we just need to pour out a little liquor for somebody. Mr. Cam Thomas, who was waived by the Milwaukee Box.

Raja Bell (28:51)

I'm not laughing.

Logan Murdock (28:53)

One of one of, one of one of Howard's favorites, one of the podcast favorites, was waived on Monday night, less than two months after the Bucks signed him and they converted to the two way contract of Pete Nance to a standard NBA deal. Cam Thomas is where to sign with any other team you will not be able to participate in postseason play. I'll start with Howard, man. Howard, where are we at with Cam Thomas in the career that he has had? And what does that kind of say about what you need to be as an NBA player? And maybe where he fell short because it looks like it's about the end.

Howard Beck (29:30)

I mean, look, I, I don't know that Cam Thomas is important enough enough for us to spend too much time on this.

Logan Murdock (29:37)

But we have five minutes.

Howard Beck (29:38)

He's, he's an object lesson in talent is not everything. The guy's an incredible shot maker. He's an incredible offensive player, period. Just super talented. Can make shots from just about anywhere over anyone at any time. But there is more to the game than scoring. And I'm in Brooklyn, so I know a lot of Nets fans and he was a really polarizing player while he was here. And there were like some true believers among Nets fandom who thought this was all on the franchise. They screwed it up. But when you go through the lesson here is that when you see a player who looks super talented, but you go through coach after coach who does not believe in him, you need to start listening to what the coach and sometimes even his teammates are saying. There's like, this is not. People don't just, you don't just doghouse a player based on like something arbitrary. Coaches want to win. Players want to win. If, if, if, if your teammates and your coach, and especially your coach, multiple coaches that you've gone through have all flagged the same things and have cut your minutes because you're not enough of a ball mover or enough of a defender or just a better team player that says something. No one is doing this arbitrarily. So when fans, when you get frustrated because your favorite player or a guy that you think is really awesome is not being given enough rope by the coach, realize they see a lot more than you do. And there's usually a reason. And by the time you get through all the versions of Cam Thomas and all the coaches in Brooklyn and then being waived by a tanking team and then going to a Bucs team that was still trying to salvage the season and now cut by them so they can convert a two way player and their season's lost too, what that tells you is it was never about the Nets or any number of their coaches. And it's not about Doc Rivers and it's not about the Bucks at some point. It's about Cam Thomas. And I don't say this with any joy, it just, it sucks seeing a guy with a lot of talent not being able to find his footing and you don't know how many opportunities, how many more chances you're going to get. And this may be it for him. Maybe there'll be another one or maybe he'll go, you know, salvage himself in the G league for a while. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a bummer all the way around because the guy is really talented.

Logan Murdock (31:57)

What does this say about just how much time you can't waste in the league? Draja?

Raja Bell (32:04)

Yeah, that league is a non forgiving league. It is, it is, it is a cutthroat business. Everyone wants to be there. You think once you get in, like the hardest part is usually getting into that bad boy. And people get there and they don't read the room. They, you know, it's tough. Some, some people can read the room and wind up making more of a career than any person on draft night would have ever given them an opportunity to make because they read the room. They figured out how they could be valuable to an organization and they kept doing that and they kept earning trust in that way until someone would give them the opportunity to do something more. A lot of guys get in there, they don't read the room in that way. They don't have the self awareness to, to sit back and say, hey, Someone else is doing that job here. He may be better than me. Well, even if he's not better than me, in my mind, they deem him better at that than me. And so I've got to figure out another way to impact winning and make a living. And the crazy thing is it's always the guy that's really good offensively. It's almost always that guy. It's almost always that guy that feels like he's too good to not be the hub offensively. You very rarely see a dude who thinks he's great defensively and hangs his hat on defending be that guy that's, that's in and out because they can always use that, but it's always that guy that's an incredible shot maker. A portion of the fan base, usually the ones that don't know hoops, will fall in love with his ability to make really, really tough shots over and over again and score the ball. And that guy is hard sometimes to convince that it's not his ball to shoot every time and that he has to find another way to impact winning. And I've had those conversations with players as a front office member and I remember them, like, imploring, begging, articulating how the structure of a team looks and how what an individual player might see from his side is not what an organization sees from their side. And there could be a happy medium there if you would just do X, Y and Z. And you think that conversation went well. I'd go back up to the room and be like, griff, yeah, I mean, I had a great conversation. Like, I think this is good. And that just doesn't sink in. There's a barrier there and that'll get you up out of the league quicker than you should potentially be up out of the league. I would tell Cam Thomas, like, he could make a lot of money probably overseas as a dynamic scorer and not saying that he doesn't have, you know, G league bump back to the NBA. But I mean, they don't get their hands on electric scores like that all the time in Europe. You can make a lot of money, make a lot of money because that's the only place that I see you getting to play the role that you are insistent on playing. That's not going to be on an NBA, that's not going to be on an NBA team unless, like, unless a cam is ready to have a real conversation with himself and people are ready to have real conversations with him that are, you know, close to him about understanding his value to NBA organizations. There is a place for people to come in and spark offense in stretches of time a la Vinnie Johnson, a la they're microwave type dudes. But that can't be it. Like, there have gotta be other things that you do and provide, not only on the court, in other areas on the court, but in the locker room, as a teammate and as a human being. And you have to buy into those things if you want to have a long NBA career. If you're not interested in that and it's only going to be about how well you can score the ball, then you're going to have to find another league to make a, to make a really good living doing that, because it's just not going to be on a winning NBA team.

Howard Beck (35:58)

I always think about the Greg Popovich quote about wanting people, whether it's coaches, players, whoever, who have gotten over themselves. That was like Pop's favorite phrase. You know, people have gotten like. And that's about self awareness, right? It's a, it's a different version of saying people who are self aware and that. I think it's what you're saying, Raja, like, you know, Cam Thomas, there's a self awareness problem. There's not a talent problem, there's a self awareness problem.

Logan Murdock (36:22)

How often, Raja Happy, you had those talks with guys and it actually sticks. Like where it actually changed the direct. Like, how often does that actually happen with those types of guys?

Raja Bell (36:33)

I mean, you know, in the end, in the NBA, because I only spent that one year in the front office. So, you know, I, I've had that conversation a couple times in that capacity, maybe a time or two as an older player in the NBA. And honestly, at that level, it rarely works. Yeah, it rarely works. These are, these are, you know, it's the old adage of trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Like, these are things that they've been celebrated for at every stop of their basketball journey. And now you're trying to tell that old dog, I'm not going to celebrate you for that. Quite the opposite. You know, I need you to do the things that, that, that you never wanted to do. And that's a very, very hard conversation to have. And it's an even harder conversation to digest and, and, you know, make the changes as the person being kind of talked to. I would say this though. You know, as, as, as I've come up with my kids through the, through the high school and, and youth, you know, football, basketball, what have you. Kids listen. You know, kids listen and it's not in a, it's not in an. In a. You know, they're not pros. So asking them to sacrifice everything that they dream of to be exactly what a team needs, if that means it's going to cut short their upward trajectory isn't always fair to a kid. I don't believe in that. But certainly having about team dynamics and what teams take and how even the leader of a team, if he's the one, given the opportunity to do everything that he can do, has a responsibility to the rest of the group to not make them feel marginalized and to give them opportunities to shine in their spaces. Like, those things are nuanced conversations that I never got as a young player. And I don't know how many people do, but I think you get better prepared kids, if they learn those things early and they're taught properly early, you get better people that would receive the message you're asking about. Logan when they become adults, they can receive it because they've been, you know, they've been. They've been brought up in a way and they. And. And quite frankly, they've been exposed to it at an age where it's not foreign to them. They understand it.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (38:39)

Yep.

Logan Murdock (38:40)

That's fascinating, man. Roger Bell, ladies and gentlemen. It's time for. What's up? You got something, Howard?

Howard Beck (38:48)

No, just before we get to the mailbag.

Logan Murdock (38:50)

Yeah, could I just.

Howard Beck (38:51)

Can I just. As long as we're in kind of like more or less like the consequences slash karma slash hater portion of the pod.

Logan Murdock (38:59)

Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, Good.

Howard Beck (39:03)

Can I just note that the Miami Heat are one in five on and on a five game losing streak since the Bam game. Just saying. Just noting it for the record.

Raja Bell (39:14)

I can. I would say this. I would say. I would say this. Howard, like, I would say this. Bam. What did Luca have 60 on. On the. On the Heat.

Logan Murdock (39:24)

Yeah.

Raja Bell (39:25)

And bam. I didn't. We. I wasn't on a pod. I was fishing and shit. I don't know if you guys touched it, but if the quote that he gave after that game was one of the tackiest quotes I've ever. I've ever heard, it hit me so wrong. What did he say when they asked him about Lucas 60 and he said something to the effect of like, yeah, you know, when you get hot like that and you can't miss, like, I know exactly how that feels or something. And then he said, but it's not 83 or something like that. And I was like, that wasn't great, I hope.

Howard Beck (39:57)

I just want to. Because I don't remember and I didn't see it. I might have missed it. Raja. I hope that was actually a real quote, not one of those like fake quote card things that people like throw on Instagram and that goes viral before. And before you realize like, oh, no, somebody just made this shit up.

Raja Bell (40:11)

No, I heard. I was. I was driving in the car and I heard like it was in a media scrum, I guess. Or maybe it was at the podium, but I heard it. The comedy movie event of the year. Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. Now streaming only on Hulu and Disney

Logan Murdock (40:23)

plus Time to party.

Raja Bell (40:25)

That's a great attitude. It's a time traveling ass kicking movie event. You sound insane. Starring Vince Vaughn, James Marston and Asa Gonzalez.

Howard Beck (40:36)

I thought you were a clone. Well, clones aren't real, dummy. And time machines are super grounded in reality.

Raja Bell (40:41)

Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. Rated R. Written and directed by Ben David Grabinski. Only on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bumble subscribers. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the og it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. Now you've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

Cliff (41:07)

So if you've been living in the

Raja Bell (41:08)

White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.

Howard Beck (41:18)

Yes. That's. That's not great.

Logan Murdock (41:23)

All right, speaking of haters, here comes Cliff from Philly.

Cliff (41:28)

Wait, why get the hater? What did I do? Why I get the hater tag?

Logan Murdock (41:32)

You was hating on New York air before the pod.

Cliff (41:35)

I mean, I can't hate on New York air. I mean, I love New York, but I can't hate on New York air. That's crazy. That is crazy, crazy talk. Anyways, what up, Beck? What's going on, man? This email literally is. What up, Beck? So.

Logan Murdock (41:46)

Oh, okay.

Cliff (41:46)

This is from Rob. Yeah, this is from Robert Dean. Good morning. NBA. It's that time of the year again. The ramp up to playoffs with the same teams pivoting, hiding and strategizing both for the playoffs and the summer. Who are some of the most important 8th to 10th players in the lineup you can see making a big splash this year. Thunder, Jalen Williams shooting 50, 50 and 80 in the last 10 games. Can we unpack his game a little? Spurs, Harper, Lakers, Kennard And Denver Hardaway Jr. Is he over, under or properly rated are a few to throw around as always. Love the pod, the dynamics Insights and most of all, laughs. All the best, Robert D. Dean. So, yeah, Howard, let's start with you on that one.

Logan Murdock (42:27)

Yeah, Howard. Got it.

Howard Beck (42:30)

No, this is good. Although, like, trying to go through, like, every team's, like, 8th to 10th guys, especially in the playoffs. Like, Raja knows, like, we're going to get to the postseason and, you know, depth is going to matter a little less and rotation is going to be a little bit tighter. But we also know, like, you know, it's some random, like, it could be, like, a Luke Canard, like, you know, three point hot streak in the fourth quarter that turns a series right. Like, that's. That'll be on the table. I don't know, a few off the top here. I'll go, like, Eastern Conference. Like, the Knicks have this, like, weird morass of, like, backup guards. Like, is Jose Alvarado going to turn a series with some. He's got, like, right. There's going to be a Jose Alvarado game. There could be, like, a Jordan Clarkson game for all we know. With the Knicks, you know, like, the Cavs, was Schroeder. Is he an eighth man or is he a six or seven? That's the other problem is, like, who are we classifying as 8th man? He mentioned, like, J. Will with the Thunder. The Thunder have so many different 8th through 10th through 12th guys who could potentially turn a game or a series. Like, fucking Jared McCain last night, sticking it to the Sixers in his return to Philly.

Raja Bell (43:37)

Six are sold high on that. Like, wasn't that the quote, though? Wasn't that his quote?

Logan Murdock (43:44)

Hold on.

Howard Beck (43:45)

Sorry, sorry. Daryl's never letting that one down.

Cliff (43:48)

Can y' all please stop? Can y' all please stop with the Sixers disparaging.

Logan Murdock (43:51)

Please, no.

Cliff (43:52)

Please, no.

Howard Beck (43:53)

Cliff went from his hood up to his hood, like, really, really up, and pulled forward within the last, like, 10 seconds.

Logan Murdock (44:00)

Yeah, it looks like he has the garbage bag on his head, which is well deserved for Sixers fans at this point. Why the fuck would you say that, Ron? Why would you say that?

Howard Beck (44:09)

Well, why would you do it?

Raja Bell (44:10)

Well, why would you do it?

Logan Murdock (44:12)

Why would you do it?

Raja Bell (44:12)

Why would you say it? Why would you say it? If asked the question, if not, if not prompted to, like, literally ask, do you think you sold high or low? Why even approach it? Why just leave it alone?

Logan Murdock (44:24)

There's always an option to shut the fuck up, Roger. There's always an option. Sorry.

Howard Beck (44:32)

Anybody else? Ace men, who's your favorite Ace man?

Cliff (44:36)

No mention of Justin Edwards, huh? Howard? That's crazy.

Logan Murdock (44:39)

Let me See, I don't think he's an eighth man, but Dennis Jenkins was balling last night. Like, he can definitely have a game. He could definitely have a game for the Pistons shooters on the Cavs. He could definitely have a Keon Ellis. How about Keon Ellis?

Howard Beck (44:56)

Like that.

Logan Murdock (44:57)

Like that.

Howard Beck (44:59)

Bones Highland on the Wolves again. Like, I don't know. It's bonehead.

Logan Murdock (45:02)

Six man. Seventh man. Yeah.

Raja Bell (45:04)

Your collect, your collective bet, your collective six through eight in the playoffs are super, super important.

Logan Murdock (45:11)

Like, super.

Raja Bell (45:12)

And whoever gets consistency, whether it be like a one night for each of the three guys or if they're just collectively solid, whoever gets the most solid performance out of that bench, provided stars are being stars, you got a huge advantage in a series. That's, that's, that's just facts. If you get role guys to step up and bench players to step up and give contributions in the playoffs, you're in the. Can I say something about Detroit real quick?

Logan Murdock (45:36)

Please?

Raja Bell (45:36)

Like, watch, Watch them a bit. I'll be at the Laker. You know, the Lakers did look like they were just running in quicksand.

Logan Murdock (45:44)

They were. I kind of had no legs. Had no legs yesterday, bro.

Raja Bell (45:47)

Yeah. Is there. I mean, you guys, correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't watched every game they've played since Cade's been out. But at least earlier in that game, they were moving the ball and moving people and it exposed the Lakers lack of legs because they weren't just coming down. And that's, that's always an interesting dynamic for me. And here's my question to you dudes. Can they pair the two? Which is, we have a fantastic manipulator of defense when Cade's there. Individual scoring, shot creation and, and really, you know, shifts defense in a way where everyone gets to eat relatively easily. But when he, when he was out and I saw that ball movement and Duncan Robinson flying off of screens and like different people, Tobias Harris flying off of stuff, and now people are slipping to the rim because we're not just all standing there watching a ball handler waiting for pick and roll that's really difficult to guard. So, like, is there any combination of that where they get the best of both worlds? Because that, I mean, that marginalizes Cade for sure, right? Because he's so good with the ball. But I was watching it thinking, like,

Logan Murdock (46:54)

fuck, bro, they had a ball of string last night and they paired that also with just physic through physicality on the defensive end. It's good. Yeah, bro. Yeah. So I, I think, I. I think in theory, they should be able to, but I think what it's going to take is it's going to take a level of maturation from Cade to, like, look at this team in the current state and be like, okay, I got to adjust my game. Okay? Like, I can't adjust my aggressiveness necessarily, but I do have to, like, kind of take my foot off the gas and just be like, hey, man, maybe I'll be a part of, you know, the ball movement, and if I do got to stand in the corner, cool. But I will get my. My moments when I need to. I don't know. It would just take an adjustment and see how he can. How he can, you know, reintegrate. That makes it. And also the other thing is there's a collapsed lung. You might actually have to do that just in general to get back while he gets back into playing shape. Play a different version of himself until he gets fully whole.

Raja Bell (47:54)

We'll see. Yeah, no, and I don't mean to take anything away from me. He's brilliant with the ball. They're a better offensive team.

Logan Murdock (48:01)

That's classic offense. When you have a primary ball handler like K, right? Like, when they're out, this typically happens. Like, they used to have them with Kobe, when he would get out of the lineup, he would move the ball a lot more, right? But when he did, he's still Kobe fucking Bryant. So it's, it's, it's. It's a different dynamic. Cliff, what's the next. What's the next question?

Cliff (48:19)

All right, this is from JT in Germany and the title of the email is LeBron now back in his Olympics role. JT in Germany here. It seems LeBron's role on the Lakers right now has become very similar to his Olympics rule. Luca Reeves is not the same as Durant Curry, but LeBron took a second third place seat scoring wise and has still led the team in assists and rebounds and actually averaged a triple double per 36 minutes, 2012 and 10 via basketball reference, and was MVP. Wonder if JJ and the staff pointed that out or if it clicked in his basketball super brain. Either way, they went 60 in the tournament despite two close games. So maybe a template to follow. Lakers have won seven straight at the time of writing 2303, which was yesterday. And Luka catching fire in a Steph like way after a slow start to their partnership. JT in Germany.

Logan Murdock (49:07)

I like it. I like what LeBron is doing. I like where he's at. I mean, he had. He had damn near triple double last night, and he didn't score until the fourth quarter. He's just brilliant. We'll see what happens. I just don't know, like, the Lakers are just one of those weird teams because I don't like their front court at all. Right. I think that they. They don't have that much of an. They don't have that much defensive depth. I think we talked about in the last podcast, they probably have, like, three guys that you can pencil in defensively that are going to be effective. But I do like what LeBron is doing. And I think another thing that we just have to consider, maybe we said this last pod is like, Luke has only been in LA for 13 months, right? Like, it takes a long time for generational talents to gel together. And, you know, it's. It's easy for us to say, like, hey, LeBron needs to take a step back, right? And I think, oh, this is what you said Roger, the other day, but in practice, it's really hard to do that. And I think that, you know, we said LeBron was compared to Kareem. I think Howard said that. I think that's a great comparison. But I also think comparing him to Wilt Chamberlain in 1972 is a very. Way more Is a. Is an apt comparison as well, where he's on that team. I believe they had Jerry west and what's my other guy's name that Gail Goodrich and 22 Elgin Baylor.

Raja Bell (50:34)

You know who they had on 1970 shot the.

Logan Murdock (50:36)

Because I'm a. I do this, bro. But anyway, being the third option, Wilt Chamberlain, his scoring went all the way down, but he did everything else right. I think he led the league in assists. He averaged, like, 19 boards, but he did it in a number three role, and they won a championship. And I think that's where LeBron is right now. Just like a top three player who has to kind of just recalibrate and figure his whole rollout and then, you know, kind of put it to practice. But I've been really impressed by it. And it's also, like, really dope to see. It's really good to see. So we'll see how far this goes and what the future is. But let's just enjoy LeBron because his days are very much numbered.

Raja Bell (51:15)

Yeah, that's a. It's a really, really good observation. I wish I had given that a little bit more thought preseason when I was talking about. Because he. Because he has done that. He is. He has done that on Olympic teams. It didn't even register in my Brain.

Logan Murdock (51:27)

It was a good.

Raja Bell (51:28)

It was a good one.

Cliff (51:29)

Speaking of players and retirements, this is from Parker M. Hey, real ones, thank you guys for the pod. I wrote an email a while back, sent it to the wrong address about should Adam Silver be replaced. I was happy to listen to y' all takes and how they align with what I said. As a fan of the league, I don't think his vision aligns for fans, just the money. I could go on, but the ivory tower is well above my pay grade. Wow. Shots fired. We all have thoughts or maybe connections or date of remembrance on when a player retires. My question is, who are y' all picks for a player retirement that you were sad to learn of? Also, who do you think in the league as a whole will be sad about when they retire? My personal set to learn players retirements. Sorry, Raja was Corey Brewer. Love the way he played. JJ Redick. Watched his whole career. And Tim Duncan, Timmy with an exclamation point. My league pick is Steph Curry. I think when Steph retires, everybody will be sad. Good Ambassador one team guy as of now, champion. And whenever he plays, he still to this day, any game can go off. Still has that magic that makes you feel like a kid. Thanks, y'.

Logan Murdock (52:33)

All. Parker, that's a great question, Parker. Sounds like a Howard question. I'm passing the ball first. Forget my answer.

Howard Beck (52:43)

I mean, where my head goes is that I think collectively forget my own opinion on this right now or just my own feelings. But I think collectively we feel it most when it's guys who are so ingrained in the league, the whole face of the league thing, but are so ingrained in the NBA's identity that it's hard to imagine the league anymore without them. Right? Like when Steph came into the league, you. You wouldn't have thought this was going to be who he was. But as we're close to the end here, it's hard to imagine the NBA without Steph. It's hard to imagine the NBA without LeBron. It's hard to imagine the NBA without Kevin Durant. And all these guys are close to the end. And if. If all three of them just decided, you know, in July, we're all announcing our retirement. That's it. We're. We're all done collectively, we would feel that, like, spiritually, forget entertainment wise, but like, on every level, everybody who loves the NBA would be like, holy shit, you know, like, the time has come. It's now all about, you know, Shay and Jokic and Anthony Edwards and whoever. But like If. If that happened simultaneously, like, you would feel it. So that's the first thing I think about, is, like, you know, and a lot of guys, by the time that they're done, the legends, they're. They're literally on their last legs. Like, Shaq literally limped away from his last game with the Celtics and was not who he was anymore. So it was less sad when he retired. It just felt inevitable. You know, Kobe went out the way that he did, but you couldn't even imagine Kobe still playing after that anyway, so it just felt right. The timing. I'll just say, on a personal level, the retirements that hit me hardest are all the dudes that I covered early in my career, because as they all each retired, I'm like, holy shit. I'm so old that Derek Fisher's now retired and coaching the Knicks. Like, stuff like that hits you when you look around one day, and everybody that you covered early on, they're all, like, assistant coaches and broadcasters now. Robert Ory's in studio at la, you know, the Lakers, the Spectrum Network, whatever the hell they are, like that. That's the stuff that hits me or, you know, everybody I even ever covered with the Knicks, the second beat that I had. And that's already a long time ago now, too. Like, Carmelo and all these guys, they're all retired. Like, h. Those are the retirements that hit me personally, the ones that make me feel old.

Logan Murdock (54:56)

Yeah, Steph will be. It'll be a moment when he retires, I think other thing is, like, it depends on how they retirement. I think. You did it. You did it. You said a really good thing, Howard, when you were talking about just, like, Shaq and just the inevitability of that even. It's weird to think about it because I know, like, with Katie, Steph and LeBron, there is an inevitably inevitable scenario that they're going to retire. But they're playing so good right now. It's like, I don't. Can I get another year of this? Can I? Yeah, you know? You know, I don't know. I think I'm going to be really sad when those. When those guys retire, because it's going to be the first time I'm gonna feel like you back. It's gonna be the. This generation of players was the players that I grew up with. Right. Like, and I happened to get into the life where, you know, I'm covering them. But I. I remember when LeBron was. Yeah, I was a kid. I was like, 10 years old when LeBron first got in the league. Right. Would I remember going to games as fans when KD and Steph were in town, you know, and now to see them gone, it's going to be weird. So I don't, I don't know the feeling yet. I'm going to find out pretty soon. It's going to be weird. How is that for a player though? What do you think, Rod?

Raja Bell (56:15)

Yeah, I had two. It's interesting listening to you guys talk about it because I think you used. The word that I was going to use is the ones you grow up with. So I had a number of players that I grew up with as a fan that their retirements were hard for me to kind of cope with. But then I had another life as a player and you grow up with another group of, of, of NBA players as professionals. Like my professional life, the guys I grew up with in the NBA that were like my era, the, the really good ones, it was tough to watch those guys retire some before me because it, you know, it highlights mortality. Like when I had to shut it down and then seeing the, you know, those guys that hung on longer than me and when they shut it down, like Vince, you know, not, not comparing myself to them as players, but like in that window of time when you played, you know, those hit you, right? Because like that's a generation of player that was obviously I was out there with and playing against on a night to night basis. And seeing them shut it down is tough. Yeah. Steph, LeBron, KD, you know, all of those dudes, every generation's just big guns and marquee matchups and Christmas games. You know, all those, those guys that drive the league, those are always hard. But for me, I had two sets of players that I grew up with and each time one of those sets retired. It was a little difficult.

Logan Murdock (57:43)

Yeah, I feel like for all, like we took. It's weird to say this, bro, but like, feels like we took these three guys for granted in a lot of ways, man. Just pencil in and Washington play and like now that it's about to be over with, it's like, man, like I remember, like you see even as a media member, like you still love basketball and when these guys go off, the feeling is still there. It's like, oh, this dude is about to go off. Like I wasn't in the building for when LeBron dunked against Houston last week, but I could imagine if I was there, like, oh shit, did you see that? Like, it was crazy. Like we still have those moments and to know this, you're not going to have them. The good thing, though, is the league, I think, is in good hands. Like, there are a lot of guys that I still want to go watch, right? Like, I still, When Wimpy's in town, like, I still got to see him. Right when Ant is doing his thing, I really want to go see him play. Luca, Like, I still. You still get out. That was something that I was scared of, was like, if this crop of players that I grew up watching retire, that I'm not going to get, like, giddy going into. You know, when you get giddy going into an arena about a, about a particular match of a particular player coming to New York, still have that giddiness when I see these new guys come in. So that's a good sign for the league.

Raja Bell (58:58)

The league's in a really good place. I just. This is the advice. I mean, Howard, I'm sure you do this to younger people, too. When they've got kids and you're watching them, just enjoy all the moments with a little baby and all the grown up and you say, hey, man, just try to be present and enjoy it because it goes really, really fast, right? And it's the same thing I kind of say to NBA fans. Howard asked the question, I don't know how many pods ago we were talking about the stuff of it all, and I was like, man, anytime that guy can suit up and you get to buy a ticket and go watch that, you better take the opportunity to do that.

Logan Murdock (59:32)

Follow your own advice. Follow your own advice. He only goes to Miami once a year, sir. Follow your own.

Raja Bell (59:39)

I played with him, so I'm good. But like, even, even, even, even the Giannis of it all from last week's conversation, you know, if you're Milwaukee fans and it's. And he wants to play, man, that's, that's, that's tough. Like that. That freak, freak's not coming through there. There's going to be another star come through Milwaukee, but he's not, he's not Giannis. So anyway, like, I give the same advice to NBA fans as it relates to their favorite players, man. Enjoy it. Don't take it for granted.

Logan Murdock (60:09)

Yeah, man. Yeah, man, I enjoy this and I will never take this pot for granted. I really appreciate you guys. This is a really great day, man. Good shit to everybody.

Howard Beck (60:17)

Good. By the way, while we've been talking, literally in the last, like two minutes, I just got a text from my boy Benny, who's a huge Nets fan,

Raja Bell (60:23)

saying Cam Thomas was cut again.

Howard Beck (60:25)

Well, you were right. About Cam Thomas. We had spirited debates about him a couple of years ago.

Raja Bell (60:32)

Benny was a defender. Benny was a defender.

Howard Beck (60:34)

Yeah, Big time. Yeah. Nets fans. There's a portion of Nets fans, A lot of them.

Logan Murdock (60:39)

Okay, it's fine.

Raja Bell (60:41)

Howard, what is it? Like, I am so interested in this. Is it. Is it just the incredible tough shot making that. That is the draw for. For like Nets fans with him.

Howard Beck (60:52)

He just, he's. It's not just like, there's a lot of guys, you and I have seen, Roger, who are like instant offense, right? And some of them are just because they're just dead eye shooters or whatever. Cam Thomas pulls off the most impossible shots.

Raja Bell (61:03)

The flare, like the flare.

Howard Beck (61:05)

The flare, man. It's the degree of difficulty. And if you got extra points for degree of difficulty, the dude would lead the league in scoring. Like, he just. But it's almost like every shot he ever took was a high degree of difficulty shot during his time with the Nets. And when those are going in, awesome. But when they're not, not so awesome. But also like, yeah, you got to do more in the game. But anyway, yes, he was really easy for Nets fans to fall in love with. And plus he had like, you know, I think he was a rookie when KD was here. So like KD had given him the stamp of approval and Kyrie had too. And so I think like, you got a little bit of that too, where it's like, oh, well, the superstars are really high on this guy. They must know they know something we don't. But players can fall in love with.

Logan Murdock (61:48)

To his detriment.

Raja Bell (61:49)

They do.

Logan Murdock (61:51)

He bought.

Raja Bell (61:52)

It's fascinating. It's fascinating how many high level players will watch a Cam Thomas or the like just a dude who can put it in the bucket and stamp them off of. Just because that's what most of us are looking at. Like can they do. Can they score that shit? Incredibly. And the skill that it takes to do that and sometimes forget about everything else that goes into making a high level basketball player or for that matter, a high level efficient scorer. Interesting though. I appreciate the insight.

Logan Murdock (62:26)

Sure. And that has been another edition of Real Ones. Tap in with us every Tuesday and Friday. I will be back home on Friday so we'll be back to 4k for on my end. We will see you guys then. All the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem called 1-800- gambler or 1-800- my recent said. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.