Wemby’s Historic Night!

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: “Wemby’s Historic Night!”

Podcast: The Ringer NBA Show – Real Ones
Date: May 19, 2026
Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, Howard Beck
Episode Theme: A deep dive into Victor Wembanyama’s historic Game 1 performance in the Western Conference Finals (Spurs vs. Thunder), OKC/San Antonio series analysis, Detroit Pistons post mortem, and Mailbag Q&A.

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Episode Overview

This jam-packed episode revolves around the seismic impact of Victor Wembanyama’s dominant performance in Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals. Logan, Raja, and Howard dissect the game, spotlighting Wemby's all-time great stat line, his array of skills, and the psychological effect he has on both ends of the floor. The conversation explores strategic adjustments for both teams going forward, as well as broader implications for the league’s future. The hosts also briefly discuss the Detroit Pistons’ playoff exit before answering listener mailbag questions on playoff adjustments, LeBron's future, and more.

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Victor Wembanyama’s Historic Game 1: Unpacking the Insanity

Timestamps:

• Intro & Theme: [01:55]
• Wemby starts: [01:55 – 11:30]

Key Points & Discussion

• The Stat Line:

  • 41 points, 24 rebounds, 49 minutes—youngest ever with 40+ points and 20+ rebounds in a playoff debut.

• Logan’s Take ([01:55]):

  • "Every decade or every generation…there comes a game where it feels like a pendulum swing. It feels like a rebirth of a game, of a sport, of a league, if you will. And we saw that last night… Victor Wembanyama, 41 points, 24 rebounds in 49 minutes."
  • Compares Wemby to six legends at once—"a little bit of Kareem, a little bit of Giannis, a little bit of KD, Steph, Hakeem, Shaq… in the sheer dominance in the paint."

• Raja’s Living Room Experience ([03:44]):

  • "My son and I were at the kitchen table…He was texting me, ‘Are you watching this?’…We just went through the variety of plays: logo 3, catch at the free throw line, work through the double, back to basket, spin, power through…block SGA’s jump shot—not like tipped it, just beat it up…No one else has ever affected a game in that many ways…He’s all of [the legends] rolled into one."

• Howard’s Household Reaction ([05:55]):

  • "I was just shrieking on the couch…my wife, half paying attention, at a certain point, all three of us, everything that happened was like ‘Oh my God. Holy shit. What is happening in front of us?’"
  • Admits to usually trying to ‘tap the brakes’ on hyperbole, but says: "…then you see something like last night, and you’re like, okay, maybe—fucking stop tapping the brakes and just cut the brake cable. There are no brakes!"

• Historical Game Context ([07:55]):

  • "Of the last 29 years of game ones that I’ve seen, that has got to be the greatest fucking Game 1 of a playoff series that I’ve seen. That was absolutely…outstanding."

• Impact on League Narrative ([08:44]):

  • "The reason why I say it was such a pendulum shift is not only the Wemby performance…the game in general…like, no, the NBA is doing just fine…"

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Defensive Dominance & Psychological Impact

Timestamps:

• Discussion: [10:28 – 15:03]

Key Points

• Wemby as a Defensive Game-Changer ([10:28]):

  • Logan: "He’s not only a rim protector, but damn near an inside the three-point lane protector…You really can’t go beyond the three-point line either…He can stretch all the way to half-court."

• Raja on Affecting the Offense ([11:30]):

  • "If you let him psych you out and you aren’t in attack mode before he’s even blocked a shot, he’s already beat you…Don’t let him run you off things before he’s [actually] blocked the shots."
  • Praises Wemby’s motor, comparing him to Dennis Rodman: "Otherworldly gifts…[plus], he just outworked you for the ball."

• Late-Game Sequence Analysis ([14:08]):

  • Howard questions Wemby’s lack of contest on a late SGA layup—Raja breaks down the idea: "Just start head under the rim… so when Shay catches it, your big ass is standing there…"

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Strategic Adjustments: What Can OKC Do?

Timestamps:

• Shay’s Role & OKC Adjustments: [16:27 – 21:53]

Key Points

• Shea’s Struggles & Solutions:

  • Raja: "Carter Bryant was great [defensively] on Shea…they kept throwing bodies at him."
  • Advocates for moving SGA off the top of the key to the ‘nail’ or mid-post to create defensive confusion.
  • Logan: "Put him in the post like Kobe in ’06, just run offense through him right there…”

• Importance of Others:

  • Logan: “Caruso…was the only bench guy [producing]…AJ Mitchell—four points in 34 minutes, can’t have that…They need a Chet [Holmgren] game.”

• Chet Holmgren’s Role:

  • Raja: "Chet just has to be aggressive, man…shoot the ball…There were too many times he was confused, pump faking at it…"

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Spurs’ Defensive Identity / Thunder’s Offensive Hurdles

Timestamps:

• Comparison to Classic Teams: [23:33 – 24:30]

Key Points

• Logan ([23:33]):

  • "Reminded me a lot of the ’15 Warriors…and the 90s Bulls—so much length…And then you put Wemby behind it and it’s an ultimate cheat code…literally no gaps."

• Howard ([24:30]):

  • Spurs felt in control—Thunder’s solace is that Shea will make adjustments, Jalen Williams (J Dub) will shake off the rust.

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Spurs’ Rookies Impress—Dylan Harper Spotlight

Timestamps:

• Harper’s Historic Game: [27:19 – 28:24]

Key Quotes

• Howard: "First rookie in NBA playoff history to have a game with 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, 5+ assists and 7+ steals. Yes, it went to double overtime, but still. Give me a break."
• Raja: "He’s…pretty remarkable what he’s doing. Crazy."

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Competitive Mindset: Holmgren’s Mentality

Timestamps:

• Challenging Chet: [38:51 – 47:13]

Key Points

• Logan on Holmgren ([38:51]):

  • "There’s a nonchalantness there when it comes to Wemby…Part of me is like, bro, he’s taking it to you, and he don’t fuck with you, bro. So you need to match energy."

• Raja ([40:19]):

  • "When I played with the Suns and we’re playing the Lakers…somebody on the roster has to stand up and fight the person on the other team…Your team needs to see that."

• Howard ([43:09]):

  • "Chet Holmgren cannot afford to think about where Wemby is in the pantheon…the job is to go at him as if he is every bit his equal."

• The Need for Chet to Step Up Offensively:

  • Logan: "You can’t have eight points on seven shots, dog, in 41 minutes…He doesn’t have to be Wemby…but 25 and 13—that’s great."

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Quick Post Mortem: Detroit Pistons

Timestamps:

• Detroit Segment: [47:52 – 54:45]

Insights

• Logan ([48:44]):

  • "Sad…felt like a flash in a pan as opposed to something sustainable…so many glaring mishaps from [the] stars…He just didn’t come away with ‘this is the team that’s going to dominate the East…’"

• Howard ([50:44]):

  • Pulls back for perspective—Pistons’ leap from 14 wins (2 years ago), to 44 wins, to 60 wins and a 1-seed, without playoff experience. "All found money for them…they’ve got work to do.”
  • Jalen Duren’s playoff struggles highlighted as a major offseason question.

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Listener Mailbag Highlights

Timestamps:

• [55:07 – End]

Playoff Adjustments After a Big Loss (Black Rob, Maine; [55:24])

• Raja details what happens between playoff games: film breakdowns, walkthroughs, team and individual adjustments, intense focus on details, and emotional compartmentalization:
  • "You obsess over it in the playoffs in a different way…You have time to do that in a way you don’t in the regular season."
• Howard: "Is there an emotional hangover?"
  • Raja: "Everyone is pissed that night…but by the next morning, usually you gotta flush [it]…can’t let one turn into two…best compartmentalizers are more successful."

LeBron’s Contract & Ownership Aspirations (Eric, Durham NC; [61:08 – 63:36])

• Howard: "LeBron is worth $1.4B…NBA teams are $5-10B…what he makes on a contract doesn’t meaningfully impact his ability to buy a team…He’ll likely be a minority owner and the face, not sole owner."
• Logan: "It's a club, Roger. Different club.”

Heartfelt Shout-Out to Howard Beck ([65:19])

• Listener Chase thanks Howard for his public support of Jason Collins and equal representation in the NBA community.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Logan ([01:55]): “Every decade or every generation…there comes a game where it feels like a pendulum swing…last night…Victor Wembanyama, 41 points, 24 rebounds in 49 minutes.”
• Raja ([03:44]): “No one else has ever affected a game in that many ways…He’s not Michael, not Shaq yet…He’s all of them rolled into one on the way.”
• Howard ([05:55]): “Fucking stop tapping the brakes and just cut the brake cable. There are no brakes!”
• Raja ([11:30]): “He then also was Dennis Rodman…just outworked you for the ball. That’s a rare combination.”
• Logan ([23:33]): “Like the ’15 Warriors…95-98 Bulls—so much length…put Wimby behind it, it’s an ultimate cheat code.”
• Howard ([27:51]): “First rookie in NBA playoff history to have a game with 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, 5+ assists and 7+ steals…Dylan Harper and Magic freaking Johnson.”
• Raja ([40:19]): “Somebody on that roster is willing to stand up and fight the person on the other team…your team needs to see that out of somebody responsible for Wemby.”
• Logan ([43:45]): “Chet has to play this as if ‘you got to deal with me’—and not vice versa.”

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in in-game and series-long NBA analysis, blending real-time awe at Wembanyama’s generational talent with frank, strategic diagnostic talk about both the Spurs and Thunder. The hosts also provide critical historical context, player psychology insights, and strong listener engagement with well-informed mailbag contributions. The tone is energetic, a little explicit, expert, and fun—a must for NBA diehards seeking depth and detail.

Next Up: Game 2 of Spurs/OKC—and likely “another 45-minute segment on Raja.”

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Other Key Timestamps (hh:mm):

• Spurs/Thunder Game Recap Start: [01:55]
• Victor Wembanyama Analysis Peak: [03:44 – 11:30]
• OKC Adjustments & Chet Dialogue: [16:27 – 47:13]
• Pistons Post Mortem: [47:52 – 54:45]
• Mailbag/Playoff Adjustments: [55:07 – end]

Ads, plugs, and intro/outros omitted as per guidelines.

Transcript

[Cliff Boon]

Foreign.

[Logan Murdoch]

Real ones Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck and Raja Bill and a few we have one of our best episodes, one of our most fun episodes on the way. We just go 45 minutes on OKC in San Antonio. We probably could have went more I can't wait to talk more about this series as it unfolds. Then we get into a little bit of Detroit Pistons post mortem and then we get to your mailbag questions which were fantastic, fantastic, fantastic, fantastic, fantastic episode. Make sure you keep right here. Real ones mailbag gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com Realonesmailback gmail.com We will be back on Friday after San Antonio OKC. We're just going to be talking about that series for the next two weeks and probably beyond because if it has anything, if we're going to see for the rest of the series is going to match what we saw in Game one. This is going to be a series for the ages. So make sure you tap in with us all. The Balenciaga Cliffy Boon out the two play the theme music the Ringer NBA

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[Logan Murdoch]

What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Howard motherfucking Beck there and Raja Bell there. Man, you know, every decade or every generation or every whatever you want to call it, there there comes a game where it feels like a pendulum swing. It feels like a rebirth of a game, of a sport, of a league, if you will. And we saw that last night in Game one of the Western Conference Finals between Oklahoma City and the San Antonio Spurs. There's so many ways we can go here. We might do a whole show based on this, but the big news is Victor Womenyama, 41 points, 24 rebounds in 49 minutes. The youngest player in the history of the NBA to record at least 40 points and 20 rebounds a playoff debut. There is so many subplots within this right there's the video of him looking as Shay Gilgas Alexander gets the MVP trophy, has to get his arm put around him by Stefan Castle, and then he just proceeds to beat the brakes off of any defender that is in front of him. Right. You know, you put Caruso on him, it doesn't matter. You put Chet on him, it doesn't matter. And I always say this whenever I see Victor Wom, he's like six legends in one, right? Like, he's like, he's like a little bit of Kareem, he's a little bit of Giannis, he's a little bit of Kevin Durant, he's a little bit of Steph Curry, he's a little bit of a Keem Olajuwon. I saw some versions, Raja, where I thought he was some versions of Shaq, just in the sheer dominance in the paint and the types of dunks he was getting. Can you put into words, we're going to try throughout this podcast, but can you put in the words what we saw last night? Raja Bell?

[Raja Bell]

No, that's not my forte. I'm not, I'm not a wordsmith like that. What, what it was, it was just unreal to see him carry a game, dominate a game, produce. I mean, you know, my son and I were at the kitchen table this morning. He was watching into the other room and he was texting me, man, are you watching this? Like, you know, we were going back and forth and we just went through the variety of plays that he made, like logo 3, catch at the free throw line, work through the double back to the basket, you know, go to spin. Don't like that comeback. Power through, catch a lob with someone holding your left arm with one hand and dunk that power through for a two handed dunk where a guy almost takes your, your right arm off. Defensively, you block Shay's jump shot, not like tipped it, like just beat it up. J Will had a fucking tip dunk. That's a Tip dunk against 99.9% of the teams in the league and no one on the broadcast could really see what happened. And then they replay it and fucking Wemby's hand is in there like blocking it. And I don't, I don't know how to. The amount of times that OKC was driving the ball and just decided it wasn't a good idea to continue trying to drive the ball out of sheer fear of what he was going to do to the attempt. I don't think I'm doing a good job describing it. But, like, no one else has ever affected a game in that many ways. I don't give a shit. Like, he's not Michael. He's not Shaq yet. He's not, you know, Wilt or Kareem yet, but he's all of them rolled into one on the way, and he showed all of their individual traits and characteristics that we loved about each one of them. He brought them all out last night. And let me add steph with the logo 3. So, like, that's pretty fucking remarkable.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard. Go ahead, buddy. I just. I'm gonna find words while you. While you talk. I. I go, what were you. What did you think about it? What'd you think about the performance?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, the number of times I was just shrieking on the couch and I watched last night. My daughter is home from college, so she was here with me, and she's an NBA fan, so, you know, she's going to get into it anyway. My wife, who sometimes is just reading or doing something else or writing, is like, half paying attention. Like, at a certain point, it was like all three of us, like, everything that happened was like, oh, my God, Holy shit. Like, what is. What is happening in front of us? Absolutely incredible. I. I don't know that any of us can put into words what we're seeing from Victor Wembanyama right now. Because of the fact that it is a little bit of a. Of different legends from over time. And we. We have this thing, this balance, right? We are. We're wowed, we're in awe. But at the same time, especially, I think for. For all of us, and especially, I think for. For me and Logan as journalists, like, you kind of want to always tap the brakes a little bit. Like, don't. Don't get. Don't run away with this. Don't. Don't get into hyperbole too quickly. Don't overreact. Don't crown a guy too soon. Even when he was drafted and people were talking about he might be the greatest draft pick, the greatest prospect in the history of the NBA. I'm like, come on, guys, can we not do this before he's even played a single minute in the end. But can we just. And then you see something like last night, and you're like, okay, maybe like, fucking stop tapping the brakes and just like, cut the brake cable. Like, there is no. There are no brakes. Fuck the brakes. I like, because you can't see any single piece of this coming, including, and right up to. And maybe especially the pull up Steph Curry style. 3. He hadn't even made a 3 last night until he said, fuck it, we got to get to a double O. T. I'm pulling up from 30 or wherever he was and sinking it. And. And as coolly and as smoothly and as confidently as Steph would have or as Dame would have. And then at the same time, this is the same guy who in another sequence is going to swallow up a J Dub layup just whole with one hand. It just like, boom, gone. That you.

[Raja Bell]

That.

[Howard Beck]

That's not going anywhere.

[Logan Murdoch]

It.

[Howard Beck]

It is. It's incredible. There is no limit to what this guy is going to do in the course of his career. And I don't want to even go there yet, because we should just enjoy what we saw last night and what's coming in this series. Game one absolutely lived up to all of the hype that any of us could have put on it because of it being spurs vs Thunder and Wemby vs Shea, or Wemby vs Chet vs or just two of the most loaded young teams in the NBA. It. It met or exceeded all those expectations and we got double O. T. I. I have not looked anything up, and I can't. I'm not great at, like, trying to, like, cycle through my brain. Of the last 29 years of game ones that I've seen, that has got to be the greatest fucking game one of a playoff series that I've seen. That was absolutely. It's outstanding.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. I think just when I. When I hear you say that, Howard, I'm just thinking about, like, the conversation the last few years of who's going to take the baton, who's going to be. Who is going to take this league by storm. Who is going to, like, you know, it always seemed like the league was in crisis, right? Like, oh, man, LeBron's on his way out. KD's on his way out, Steph's on his way out. Who was going to be our one? And I think last night, the reason why I say it was just such a pendulum shift is because not only the Wimby performance, just the game in general was like, no, the NBA is just doing just fine. It's fine. It has. It is still capable of giving us great, great, great performances from both teams. Right? But let's stay on Victor for right now because we will get. We have a whole show to get to Oklahoma City and what they can do. My thing was this Raja. Every time, like, I was watching it, I was out at Crybaby in Oakland watching it with the hom. I'M in the Google Doc just like writing notes to myself of like what OKC should do, right? Like, do they need to embrace the mid range more? Right? Because they can't get into the, they can't get into the paint when Wimby's there, right? And then, dude, the length of San Antonio's wings is just astounding. Like they just gobble up anything that is in their path. So you really can't go beyond the three point line either. But then as I'm writing these notes down. Oh, should they go mid range? More, more. You see Wimby coming up in the mid range and do about it. Like he's going to block everything. He's just affecting games in a way that I don't think we've ever seen before from a big because traditionally what you see is you'll see a Mutumbo who is a great rim protector. The great at in my mind one of the greatest rim protectors of all time.

[Raja Bell]

Right?

[Logan Murdoch]

You see that? But he's by and large confined to the paint, right? You're not supposed, this is not supposed to happen. This isn't supposed to happen where you're not only a rim protector but you're damn near just a inside the three point lane protector. But if you want to, we can, Wimy can stretch all the way half court. I, I, I am struggling to find the words on this, but I don't know the adjustment that Oklahoma City can have right now because maybe it's Shay being a decoy. He had 12 assists last night. I, I don't know what the recourse is. And it largely because of one guy, right? Because they were getting okc was getting in back into the game when Wimy was off the floor, right? Is it get him in foul trouble? I don't know. And also God bless Chet who, who got a good block down the stretch. But like I don't, I just don't know what you do with this. And I'm speaking and I'm, and I'm, and I'm really just going off the rails here. But I'm really just trying to find the words and the thoughts in real time because I don't know how the hell to describe what I just saw.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean that's fair. Let me, let me just add one thing to like all of the, all of the, all the plays that I described because I think this one is maybe even more impressive for someone that's got all of those like physical tools that he, that are just like real gifts that basketball players have that other basketball players don't like, those otherworldly type of players. He then also was Dennis Rodman multiple times where there were loose rebounds flying around and he just fucking outworked you for the ball. Like, that's a rare combination of, of like otherworldly gifts and skill. And just, I want this more than you, and I'll outwork you for it. And I think that was important, at least for someone like me who enjoys that part of the game. That's important to acknowledge, too. Here's what I'd say to you about what Oklahoma City needs to do. If you let him psych you out and you are, you aren't in attack mode before he's even blocked a shot, he's already beat you. He's already beat you. So he's going to have a certain amount of blocks. He's, he's, he's, I don't know, 11ft tall with his wingspan. There are certain things that he is going to do. But don't let him run you off of things before he has blocked the shots before he has affected it in that way. And I thought you saw late in the game, there were a few times, yeah, he blocks them, but Shay also got to the rim and laid him and got a foul and Caruso got to the rim and laid him and had a foul. And when they got his big ass out in space and they decided to just put their head down and go, he's not that swift to foot. Now, he might catch you at the rim and block that, but I thought way too many times they weren't aggressive and in attack mode before he proved to them that he would or could do it. And then he's already beat you, right? So, like, sure, Chad's got to make shots to make him pay, right? Like I think you saw late in the game, they run the Iverson action and spring Chet back out to the left side. He's got Wemby in the corner and he's kind of anchored to. When Wemby's anchored to Chet in a way that. Let's let Shay get the layup because he doesn't want to give up that three. Well, that was time. And score the three beat you, the two doesn't. But throughout the course of the game, if Chet is knocking that shot down, it holds his big ass just a little bit closer to Chet, which frees up. It's a one step situation. There's a one step difference between him getting the block and you getting the layup. So Chad's got to play better for sure, and they've got to shoot the ball better with the people that are guarding Wemby, but they just got to be aggressive, man, and. And not be run off of stuff before he really. Before he makes the play that would ordinarily run you off of it. Make him do that over and over.

[Howard Beck]

Robbie, can I. Yeah, can I. Can I just follow up with you for a quick second? Because I've been wondering about this and wanted to ask you about this since last night. That SGA layup, the baseline layup, and. And Wemby is frozen there, and he looks. And he sees. He sees him coming, and he does not react at all. And, yes, the two ties and the three beats you, and you're down to the last few seconds of regulation. I was wondering, though, and I have not replayed it to really examine it, was there a rotation to be made there? Was there a challenge to be had? And also because we talk a lot about how Wemby can cover so much ground. Like, he could. Could he have flashed there long enough with his, you know, you know, go go Gadget arms to try to, like, at least disrupt and still be able to retreat. If the pass went to Chet in the corner, is it right to just stick with him and let them tie the game? Was there a rotation from a teammate to get Chet? Like, I. I have not replayed it, so I don't know. I'm just curious. Your. Your reaction in real time?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah, I replayed it a few times because I was trying to figure out how the hell he just let him walk in there and get a layup.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Stunning.

[Raja Bell]

The only thing. The only thing I could figure out and maybe the thought process for him was I was trying to see if they were running a hammer on the. On the weak side. A hammer screen is, you know, for people listening, I don't always do a great job of this is when, you know, the low guy in the opposite corner will set up and set basically a back screen for the person on the opposite wing to flare to the corner. And so there's a drive from the strong side. And they. People usually don't handle those hammer screens well. It'll spring a jump shooter in the opposite corner. So I was looking to see if there was any kind of hammer action, Howard, which would have, you know, ordinarily for a big made, you have to honor your responsibility to help on the hammer screen, but that wasn't there either. So what I would have said to Wemby in film Breakdown is like, yo, my man, here's the deal. Like, you're great. Congratulations. But in this scenario, just start head under the rim. Like, start there. So when Shay catches it, when he looks at that rim, your big ass is standing there. Now, you only got like two point, whatever before the three seconds goes. And if you think he's going to spray to that corner as he comes, you can cat and mouse and go back. But, like, you certainly need to be there to at least start the possession, Howard. You know what I mean?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was weird. It was weird seeing it wasn't in place while it was just a wide open layup.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, yeah. What. What version of Shay does Shea need to be in game two?

[Raja Bell]

Raja, they did a really good job on Shade Dog. They had that man, you know, they had him off balance. I thought Carter Bryant was great with him. I thought he was physical, he was disruptive. They, you know, employed kind of the same technique that they used against Ant sometimes. The Lakers did it to Shay, just getting it out of his hands early. Just. I'm not even going to let you get your feet set and get a rhythm offensively tonight. And ultimately, I think that's what it was. They just never let him find a rhythm. They kept. They kept throwing bodies at him. Every time he put it on the floor. There was. There were multiple people diving at his. At his knees or at his, you know, his low pickup for the ball. They just had him off of his rhythm in his spot. I thought he did a good job down the stretch trying to find it and like, kind of just thugging through it for his team, but he was out of sorts almost all game. What I would say to OKC is, do you see where they gave Wemby the ball a few times late in that game? Do you remember where they were trying to get him the ball?

[Logan Murdoch]

Probably like top of the key. Top of the key in the free throw area, right?

[Raja Bell]

Free throw, free throw. Not as top of the key is like an extra maybe five feet, huh?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Yeah, right.

[Raja Bell]

So, like, it doesn't sound like much, but if I'm a help, if I'm a rotator, that's all the time I need to be in help to stop you at that nail kind of free throw line, maybe one step off of it. There's virtually nothing anyone can do to effectively get a double on you. And I thought that way too often. OkC. And look, tigers don't change their stripes midstream like that. They're used to him Having the ball and kind of, you know, playing out of all five eyes, looking at me at the top of the key with the ball. But that's playing right into San Antonio's hands. They can load those gaps, they can flood. They sat in zone sometimes. I'd like to see them move Shea around. I'd like to see him catch it at the nail where it's really difficult to identify who the double is. That's confusion for a defense. We're usually taught where we're coming from as a double teamer. So like if it's on the traditional post, we're either coming from one pass away, we're coming from two passes away. Were coming from for certain players will come from the baseline. That could be on the catch, that could be on the first dribble. You know, there are rules to that. But when you put a guy in the middle of the floor, that's why they used to do it with Paul Pierce. That's why they used to do it with Joe Johnson. That's why they deal with all those ISO guys. It, it, it doesn't clearly identify for the defense where that double should come from. I'd like to see them get him the ball kind of short corner mid post.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was thinking that, I was thinking that. I was thinking, you know what I was think when you were as you were saying that and during the game as he is coming up the floor, I was thinking, honestly, man, Kobe 06 playoffs against you guys, right? Where vers the first four games where, you know, I think going into that series he was the pr, Kobe was the primary ball handler and then they just switched last minute. We're just going to put him in the post. He's not necessarily going to be a decoy, but you're just going to run offense through him right there because you can't really predict where, like you said, where to put the double team. And that's what I kept thinking throughout that game is like maybe Kobe 6 might work a little bit about this. And you have to stick to that program at least for a game or two.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

And what it, what it does Logan, like when you're playing down there, like, you know, low, low block, maybe 5ft off of the low block down in that quadrant of the court. There's nothing over here with you and you're, there's nothing on this side of the court. It's your defender. So you can really identify like, first of all, it doesn't. You don't need a lot of dribbles to score from there, which mitigates the, the, the, the potential double team's effectiveness because if I ain't dribbling it a bunch and it's not taking me a lot of time to get to this shot, it's less time you can really get there to affect it. But if they are, like, coming on the catch is what you would really have to do to him. It really clears up the picture on the weak side, right, as an offense, right, because you're going to basically, you know, put a guy in the dunker. I would imagine you're going to have, you know, you're going to, you're going to flood with one in the corner and one on the high wing, and then you just let them pick where they're coming from. Maybe, maybe you don't even dunker it because they've got Wemby out there, but you're going to dive the middle of the three guys on the weak side as the ball rotates out. And then you got to make shots. But, like, you know, everything's predicated on making shots.

[Logan Murdoch]

The one thing that I, I, I will say though, is like the, the OKC had found something a little bit in the Lakers series when Shay was out and they went on that run. But granted, the Lakers aren't, can't even hold a candle defensively to what the San Antonio spurs team is. But the other guys need to get involved, right? Like Caruso is, is. He did great, but he was the only bench guy that did it. There was no A.J. mitchell. Four points at 34 minutes. You cannot have that happen. They need those guys, right? They need, you know, the, the case. And Wallace is not going to be your score guy, but they need AJ Mitchell to compliment Jalen and Shea in the way that he's been doing all postseason long. And they need a check game. Man, I know that he's going, he's playing defense. It's like, yo, what the hell? But they need his office. They need him to hit that corner three, a bit more, right. He hit four attempts, but they, they need him. How do the other guys get involved, Raja?

[Raja Bell]

Well, look, they, let's be clear. San Antonio has some dudes defensively. I mean, they got bodies. These are six, five. Rangy. But more impressively, they're not like thin bodies. These are big. These are, these are football bodies that they're throwing at guys that are, you know, trying to play relatively ISO ball, just trying to beat their man and get in the paint. Not an easy thing to do, especially when you have the support of Wemby behind you.

[Logan Murdoch]

More.

[Raja Bell]

More ball movement, more people movement. I would say for an OKC team that typically plays off a Shay Chet just has to be aggressive, man. Like, I don't want to see you pump faking at threes and sidestepping and shoot, shoot the ball. That thing gets sprayed out to you and you got a six five closing out to you, man. Like, I don't profess to be any all world player, but, like, when that ball hit a swing, swing to me in the corner and somebody my height or lesser height was closing out. I'm not even thinking about it. It's in the air. You late. You're too late. So, like, there were too many times where he was like, pump faking at it and looked like he was confused. He's just got to settle down and be aggressive. It's not easy, though. I don't. There's no easy answer because they're a very good defensive team. Both principally. They rotated through defenses last night. They kept them guessing. They were in a zone, they were in a man. They were doubling him in the backcourt. The next time down, they would wait till he got in the front court and doubling him. Like, they were throwing a lot of. A lot of perplexing kind of like combinations at them. And they've got physically tooled defenders. So it's not easy.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's like, it reminded me a lot of the 15 warriors and honestly, a lot of the. The 90s, like the 95 to 98 bulls, where, like, they just have so much length, right? And. But then you put Wimby behind it and it's. It's an ultimate cheat codes because it's the rare offense where there are literally no gaps, you know, And I, I don't. And okay, season one, like a great offensive team, historically great offensive team with a historically great offensive player. And then he go. They go up against San Antonio Howard and it's like we. We have nothing for it. We like a completely different team. And granted, I do want to say all this. We're speaking in. In the ways that, like, we're speaking like San Antonio was dominant in this game and this game still went to two overtimes. Right. Like, so it's not like these teams aren't evenly matched, but I just. It's just fascinating to see what San Antonio does to Oklahoma City because no other team can do that.

[Howard Beck]

No, no other team can. No other team has in quite some time. I, you know, listen, it comes off like it was a bigger win than it was because it also felt like San Antonio was controlling a lot of that. Right? Like they, you know, they, they let them chip away and they lost the lead in the fourth, but it did, it really felt like the spurs were in control for a lot of this. So yes, it's a double overtime win, which means the margins were thin as hell. Although the margin, the final margin ended up being pretty big in the second overtime. But yeah, these teams are incredibly closely matched. I think if you're the Thunder, you're taking solace in a couple of things. One like you're, you know, now Shay has seen all that. He's too great a player not to figure out how to get a little bit more free and get his shots or set up his guys. Like he'll, he'll find a way. Like it was not a, it was not a great Shay game scoring wise. And, and look, by the way, quick aside car Carter Bryant's a rookie, Dylan Harper's a rookie like the primary defender. And Vsell had time on him too. Like everybody had time on, on Shay. But you've got freaking rookies who are just looking like eight year vets going up against the two time MVP and containing him, making him work, making him inefficient, making him almost disappear for the first three quarters. Like there wasn't, there weren't a lot of shame moments in those first three quarters last night. And this is where we, we get to, to J Dub. Jalen Williams has played like a dozen games since mid January and had been off for almost a month before playing last night. So I would take that into account. He had a little bit of a rough game, especially shooting wise couple of shots. He probably wants back late but like that's, I feel like the key for them. Like Chet's gonna do whatever he can do. Maybe there's more. I heart too to try to like you know, contain or body up Wemby and, and, and just make him work more like all that stuff but offensively for them to really get going, you know, they were a champion last year because J Dub is incredibly dangerous on his own and you can't just load up against Shea. So I'll be curious to see how he gets untracked over the course of the series now that he's back in the mix. I think there was one moment last night where, where he was limping a little bit again. So hopefully that's not the hamstring or something else flaring up. But yeah, like the, the Thunder, there's so many weapons there they're so deep. Like they'll, they'll find their way. But I do think this is probably the most stress they've had in quite a while. Although in fairness, they were at a game seven last June against the Pacers. That championship went down to the wire too.

[Raja Bell]

So can I, can I, can I just add a couple things to that? Because like, yeah, first of all, Dylan Harper, that's crazy, man. You're like 24, seven steals. Like he stole almost every, every pass to the opposite corner that they tried to execute. He was in between the, the, the. The. The ball and the desired destination. Like he just kept reading it like a book, like a safety. I think they said it on the broadcast, by the way.

[Howard Beck]

Just interrupt real quick. First rookie in playoff history. This is from Jordan Howenstein, great PR guy for the Spurs. First rookie Dylan Harper in NBA playoff history to have a game with 20 plus points, 10 plus rebounds, 5 plus assists and 7 plus deals. Yes, it went to double overtime, but still. Give me a break.

[Logan Murdoch]

Crazy.

[Howard Beck]

That's absolutely astounding. And even if you, if you roll back to five steals. So only rookies in NBA playoff history with 20, 20 points, 10 rebounds, five assists, five steals. It's Dylan Harper and oh, Magic freaking Johnson. So. And then he, and then he exceeded Magic by getting two more steals.

[Raja Bell]

He's crazy. No, no, no, no, no. Well done. Because like I. He's. It's pretty remarkable what he's doing. It' crazy. The other thing you touched on the J. Will shot. I know games don't boil down. I just be like he, that that shot lost them the game. That game was over. That, that, that decision to pull up going left the airball like that. That game was essentially with a good possession there. Get the ball to Shay. Like I really feel like it was over. I'm not saying he lost the game, but that. That game hung in the balance right there in that way. And they really had a shot to, to. To kill the game. And that was just a bad possession. The last thing I wanted to say because I think this kind of crystallizes what I was saying about them as a team. OkC just deciding that they're gonna not be affected by Wemby and just the presence of Wemby. Shay had a play late where you could see he was fucking pissed. He came down the lane and he took off and dunked that shit. Like how rare, how rare is it? Do you see him?

[Logan Murdoch]

Was that on Wimpy too? That was like. He caught Wimby a little bit Was it that dunk?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, wasn't on Wemby necessarily. Wemby, it was like near him. He was in the near him. But what they, what they had been doing as a team prior to that is what I think is more important. They were going in there and when Wemby was the specter of Wemby was even in the vicinity, they were throwing these like, like super high floaters and like adjusting their layups to accommodate for maybe Wemby's coming. What I'm saying is do that like Wimby, with all due respect, like, come block this and if you do cool, we'll adjust, but like, don't. On that particular play, he made his mind up that when BB Damned he was dunking the basketball or he was going to get fouled or get blocked. And if you take that approach, I think you're going to wind up like as a happy team. Like, you might not convert all of those, but you went to the free throw line 19 times last night. Like they, like they. In a double overtime game. Like you, you not attacking is. Is like your team. I don't know what the stats say. They usually shoot from the free throw line per game, but given all the rhetoric around like Shay and the foul baiting and all that, I, I'm assuming it's a higher number than, than, than 19. And that was in double overtime.

[Logan Murdoch]

For context, San Antonio had 29 free throw attempts. There's. There's two points that I would like to make on that one. One, when you talk about taking it to a guy who get like, no matter what he does, if he's a shot blocker, just take it to the shot blocker. I'm reminded of the 01 finals, right, where Mutombo is going in as defensive player of the year. Now granted, he was going up against Shaq, but Shaq had that attitude, we're just going to take it to his chest and I'm going to try to dunk it. I'm not even going to like. And my whole team is going to do that as well. Right? I. You're on to something there where it's just like, just don't be scared, you know, just. Just fucking do it. The second thing that I would say that if I'm okay, see, I'm trying to do, and I think that they did a really effective job is, yo, man, San Antonio does not have a, have a, A calm. San Antonio does not have a calming presence at point guard. And what I mean by that is it's really Just like three dribbles in a cloud of dust. And you saw that with the turnover. Stefan Castle had 11 turnovers last night, right? What you need to do, I think, is you just need to blitz their guards, right? Like, even if de' Aaron Fox is in there, he's a similar guy where it's like. And that was a complaint that I had about them earlier in the season, is that they just don't have a guy. They don't have a. They would. They would be great with Chris Paul, like prime Chris Paul to just like calm down and just say, hey, guys, I got this. They're just running and they're just trying to make plays and it's a cloud of dust. If I'm saying Anton, if I'm okay, see, excuse me. I'm trying to just blitz those guards and get those steals because that's what they were doing last night. It was really effective. And it gets you out in transition. It gets Wimby out of the plays when you can get easy buckets in transition. There was a play, I think, when J Dub got a steal and he just got a quick dunk, right? Those are the things that you need because you don't want to set up shop in a half court against San Antonio because of the size and the length and the shot blocking. And I think if they can just. Just do exactly what they did and just blitz those guards and get those steals, I think they're going to be in great shape defensively, I think.

[Howard Beck]

I do think Fox helps. I do think Fox helps in that regard some. There were moments last night where Dylan Harper was over dribbling. There are moments where Castle got a little loose with his dribble, I don't think.

[Raja Bell]

Not a double, Not a double overtime game. Howard, with him out there to close. I'm just telling you.

[Howard Beck]

I'm not saying he would close, but like.

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no, I'm agreeing with you in that. Like, if they had him, that game's not going to overtime.

[Howard Beck]

Oh, you're saying it's not going overtime in the first place?

[Raja Bell]

No.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Because they're not turning it over like they did down the stretch.

[Howard Beck]

The first. But the first quarter especially, like, they seem like I haven't looked quarter by quarter. I got to think that the majority of their turnovers were in, especially live ball turnovers were in the first quarter. It just felt like every two seconds they were losing it and it was a run out the other direction. Like you have to be hyper conscious when you're playing against the Thunder. And actually against the spurs too, like this is, this goes for both teams, but we saw this last year with a Thunder. The second you look away like I'm looking to see who I'm passing to. Lou Dort's got his hand on the ball, Curse has got his hand, somebody's got it and they're slapping it away, it's gone. Like the second you lose a millisecond of concentration or get a. Just slightly loosely your dribble or it's a little too far out in front of you, they're on it. There is no room to breathe against the Thunder. And so, yeah, like a more sure handed. I'm not saying Deer Fox is a traditional point guard any more so than the rest of their guards, but I do think, you know, the, the maturity and the presence and you know, just having a little bit more presence of mind in those situations. Maybe you want the ball in his hands a little bit more once he's healthy in this series. On the other hand, like they just won a game without him and the young guys all looked amazing. But yeah, the turnover count stupid high.

[Logan Murdoch]

And yeah, I mean to that point though, it was pretty evenly distributed at the turnovers were like there were eight in the first half, eight in the second half. This for San Antonio, first overtime, had four turnovers in five minutes. And they, when they finally got, when they finally got a hold of it was in the second overtime when they had one turnover. And that's when they, that's when the game shifted down the stretch. I mean it's really going to come down that for them because they, every time it felt like San Antonio was dominant because when Wimby was on the floor, they would go up 10, right? And then they would just do some. The guards would just lose the ball in the half court and then OKC would just find their way back into the game. And that was the reason why, because I mean San Antonio had pretty much control of this, but that was their Achilles heel and that's going to be something to look at.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I thought, I thought, I mean it was a valiant effort by OKC down the stretch. I did feel like San Antonio was kind of controlling it and then just, you know, and I don't want to take anything away from OKC because you could feel their defensive pressure when they kind of smelled the blood in the water. The turnover is starting to kind of like, you know, multiply. They just got more and more and more aggressive and freed up to take swipes at the ball. So like they Did a good job defensively. You know, a lot of coaches will talk to you like, you know, we used to have a deflection count that you got credit for as a team and as an individual defender. That's not a stat that shows up in your traditional, like, stats, but, like, those are huge plays in basketball games. Just getting your hand on a ball that becomes a loose, and then we. We can fight for it. I thought they did a good job, but I thought that if San Antonio just had a little bit steadier of a, you know, seasoned guard, I don't know that it would have come down to that. Personally, I do want to touch, like, on the. And I think this plays into what I was saying about OKC offensively a little bit like, the accounting for Wemby in a way that takes you out of what you do. I. I love when they put Alex Caruso on Jokic for stretches, and I loved when they played some of those guys on Jokic. Like, I like the coach that isn't afraid to mix it up and see what works. I thought they did it way too much last night.

[Logan Murdoch]

I thought.

[Raja Bell]

I thought they overthought that. I thought they tried to get too cute with it. One of those bigs. You have two. We talk about how that's a strength for okc. One of those two's got a man up and guard that mofo, bro. Like, he's gonna do what he does, but one of them has to man up and guard you and make him earn some of those in a way that he doesn't have to when you've got six, four, six, five on him.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. I mean, is that. Is that.

[Raja Bell]

Do you.

[Logan Murdoch]

Do you want to see? Because I see why they do it. Right? And me and Clifford talking about this pre pod. They. They put a Caruso on so they can have the shot blocker behind him. Right.

[Raja Bell]

But you ain't blocking his shot.

[Logan Murdoch]

I. I know. I'm just saying. Well, we. I'm just saying the strategy behind it. Right? So. But I'm asking you, is it. Do you put Hartenstein or. Or you put Chet on him and then just do that. That same strategy with a bigger guy on him initially?

[Raja Bell]

Look, I would let Hartenstein guard him. Chat, too, at times. I. I like Hartenstein's, like, physical presence on him a little bit more than.

[Logan Murdoch]

And Hardenstein doesn't have responsibility on the other end, so it actually helps him be a solid defender because that's all he's focused on.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. I need to see something out of chat. Like, this isn't a reflection on him as a player in any way, shape or form or, like, what he was able to do this year. But as it relates to, like, the. I need to see something out of him. With Wemby, I don't. I wouldn't trust him guarding him. I don't like the way he looks in the face, if that makes sense. Like, I'm looking in your eyes. I don't like the look. I'm getting my boy. So I'm gonna put Hartenstein over there on him to start. And again, I'm not gonna get cute with the, like, trying to front him all over the place and like that. I'm gonna. I'm going to push him out, let him catch, and then, you know, I'm going to play him. Now, I might support Hartenstein with some. Some, like, hard gap, like, you know, dives when he puts the ball on the floor or doubles in certain situations. I would have to look at the. The. The numbers and really tell you, like, hey, when he gets to this, he doesn't miss. Or when he does that, I don't. You know, I didn't watch it like that, but there would be some game plan for him. But I'm not going to out cute myself by like, hey, let him catch it every time on the 6 5. And then we'll block 1% of the shots he shoots from the weak side. Man, fuck that. Make him earn it.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just want to. I want to stay on chat for a second. There is a one thing that I feel you when you say that. There's a nonchalantness there when it comes to Wimby. Like, I ain't really tripping off. That's his problem with me, and that's fine. Like, I'm not. I'm here to win and all those things. And I've asked him point blank what he feels about the rivalry, and he's like, no. I just, you know, he didn't even mention Wimby by name. I don't have the quote in front of me, but it was like, you know, we're. We have. I love individual matchups with all teams. I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what he said he does. He won't discuss Wimby. And part of me is like, bro, he's taking it to you. And he don't fuck with you, bro. So you need to match energy not for. Only for yourself, but also for your team, because your team kind of needs you to be like, no, fuck that. He has me up. I need to take it to him. It's almost like. And I. We talked about this in previous pods. It's almost like a few years ago with Pau Gasol, right? Where it's like, yo, the Kobe is like, yo, I need you to take it to Kevin Garnett. I need you to do this. Not only do I need you to do this, the team needs you to do this, and you need to do this for yourself. I feel that way when I see Chet guarding Wimby. It's like, I need you to just muscle him. Him. You know, that's. And I. And I don't see that when in that matchup, it's more so just like, you know, he's a. Not even. He's a great player. Just like, I'm not gonna let that affect me. But, nah, you kind of need to take that on the chin and just go at him. And that's what I kind of want to see out of. Out of Chad

[Raja Bell]

Howard. I know I'm talking a lot, man, so I want to let you go. Let me just. Let me. Let me just say I was nowhere near the player that. That Chet Holmgren is nowhere near. Like, but when I played with the Suns and we're playing the Lakers, that they have to see that somebody on that roster is willing to stand up and fight the person on the other team. Like, I may have taken it too far, but the spirit of it was like, yo, I'm not with this shit. I don't care what your name is or what number you got on your back or, I don't care. Like, we're here to fight you, and a team needs to see that out of somebody that's responsible for Wemby if it's not Chad. Like, you know, I can't fault a dude for saying, look, I don't. I don't wear it like you wear it, bro. Like, I don't. I don't have that. Like, you know, my energy, and I don't play my best when I'm on that kind of time that you're on for you to play your best. I'm not judging anybody for that. Like, that's cool. Like, somebody has to step up and be like, yo, man, we're here. Like, and. And that's kind of what I'm saying about the coaching decision to not play the bigs on him. You're already saying, yeah, like, there's a

[Logan Murdoch]

lot of retreating from OKC before we even start playing the games, right?

[Raja Bell]

Like, this is, like, too Much.

[Logan Murdoch]

And I'm like, bro, y' all the ones that won 64 games that got the championship. You guys are the ones that did this.

[Raja Bell]

They should be retreating for your ass also.

[Logan Murdoch]

And it was.

[Raja Bell]

It's.

[Howard Beck]

I. I need. I need the younger listeners to know, by the way, Raja Bell is not fucking around, and this is not revisionist history. I covered that series. I was there. I remember being at the scrum with Kobe when he's talking about the. Who is this guy? I don't know this guy. I think he called you a kid, Raja, which was really unnecessary.

[Raja Bell]

He did. He did.

[Logan Murdoch]

But all is fair in the art of war, baby. Who is this kid?

[Howard Beck]

I don't know this kid. Never mind that. Never mind that. Kobe. Raja had played each other in the finals.

[Logan Murdoch]

Aren't you older than Kobe, too? Are you older to go? Eddie's older to go.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. He said I needed a hug. There was a lot of stuff. There was a lot.

[Howard Beck]

It was very Kobe. But I just. I didn't necessarily want to go down that. That rabbit hole too far. I just want listeners to know. I remember Raj's quotes and interviews in the moment and your. Your demeanor. Raja in the moment in those games. That was exactly it. It didn't matter what the distance was between you and Kobe Bryant in accomplishments, in resume, in talent, skill, whatever. You were the guy who was saying, fuck it. This guy. We're not letting him roll us. I'm going to give him everything I've got. I'm going to stand up to him as if I am every bit the player that he is, and that's exactly it. Like, when you're in these. These kinds of competition or this level of competition at this stage. Yeah. Chet Holmgren cannot afford to think about where Wemby is in the pantheon or whatever in relation to him.

[Logan Murdoch]

His.

[Howard Beck]

His job is to go at him as if he is every bit his equal. And I think we've seen that kind of feistiness from Chet before in the past. We didn't see it a lot last night. He did block him to. What was that. That right at the end of. Was that end of regulation or end of regulation?

[Logan Murdoch]

That was a great block, too. Great. Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Right. So, like, give him his due, because that was obviously a huge freaking play in the moment. But I. But I agree with. With everything Raja said, like. Like. And everything you said, Logan. Like, Chet has to play this as if he's the one who. Like, you got to deal with me. Right?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

And not vice versa.

[Logan Murdoch]

And I think, like, the other Thing is like, I mean we, we get lost in this matchup just because we'll be so great. But Chet's a bad offensively, right? I don't even think he's, he's. He's really reached his even start of his peak. I think that he, if, if he unlocks himself and therefore unlocks his Oklahoma City team. They are. If he doesn't have to be Wimby, he doesn't. We're not asking him. They play two different roles. He doesn't need to get 40 and 20, but if he can respond with like, bro, I'm giving you 25 and 13, that's great. That is awesome. That's playing.

[Howard Beck]

They don't feature him though, right? Like, it's, it's. It's Shea first and jw.

[Logan Murdoch]

But I'm saying though. But what I'm saying though, like, if he showed that. I can guarantee you Howard, if he showed the. All of his capabilities, that that math will change. I truly believe that because he has all the attributes. He has the, the. He has the. I think he has skeletons of that game and he also has the size and, and all of the things that can make him not necessarily an equal to Wimby, but someone who can definitely challenge him. Can't have seven shots and eight points. Like, you know, you can't have that.

[Raja Bell]

He's too good for that. And he, and you, you. You're right in that. Like, he's got a, a lot of tools to work with, man. He's a good player. It might not manifest itself in this series that he's their number two, but there's meat on the bone for him in this series. There's. And he, and he wasn't looking to eat last night. Like, you know, if Wemby is going to be doing from, from the spurs perspective, like I called OKC cute. Well, if you're going to take that big anchor and multiple times they brought his ass out to your point Logan to like the free throw line. Like Shay's got it at the three point line and he's looking to beat his man. And all good players will tell you they ain't worried about the dude that's guarding them. They're worried about the next guy they have to deal with as they beat the. Because he's already beat the guy. Guard him. He's beat. What's next? Well, San Antonio bring Wemby's big ass and shadow like right behind his defender. So like Shay doesn't even want to go. Chad Holgrid should be living on the rim. Every time that big dude leaves and decides he's not going to anchor that rim dunk. Yeah, like, I'm oversimplifying it, but, like, what? Well, you go, I'm 7 3. And you go. And you're going to leave the rim unattended. I'm about to have my big ass right there every time. And even if it's not to get the lob for the dunk, well, Wemby chases almost every shot that shot. I'm going to live on this offensive glass. They can't keep me off of this glass. Like, I'm gonna eat. There's, there's, there's food out there for him to eat, and I don't think he was looking for it last night.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's also that he's, like, passive, bro. You can't have eight points on seven shots, dog, in 41 minutes. That's just not. You just can't do it. And I know I said that before and I'm harping on it, but geez, you know, and like, like, he's, I, I think Chad could be like, I mean, he has the all Stars and stuff, but I think he can be one of those bigs here. And I think that, you know, for whatever reason or the ceilings that are there, maybe he doesn't see it, but, like, I see it in him, and I know a lot of people in that organization see it in him, and he can be that, he can be that anchor. I just don't want him to shrink from the moment, you know, because I think we're, I, Roger, I think, and Beck, I think we're all annoyed because we see what the he can be. We see the prototypical, like, what you would want in the modern NBA, right? And I just see him, I don't want to see him just always just be the guy that's settling for corner threes. That's my thing, you know? Like, he had seven, he had seven field goal attempts, and four of those were three point attempts.

[Raja Bell]

Well, I, I, I would say this, though, to Howard's point, because I agree, I agree with you, Logan. Like, not enough attempts, but, like, if you're okc, maybe you try to get him involved. Like, maybe you try to run some stuff at him to see, like, if he can find a rhythm and if he can get going and display the skill set that people think he has. That puts Wemby in a really tough spot. Because now you're a primary defender, my boy. Like, now you got to come out and guard. You're not just going to be in shadow. Help. You got to honor this. When you just leave Chet off in the corner, Wemby just roams. Like, maybe you try to run some at him.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, man. Make that work. This episode is brought to you by NBC and Peacock. All right, guys, it's officially that time. You can feel it right away. Every possession matters more. Every mistake costs more. Every shot can swing everything. This is when the biggest stars shine on the biggest stage. Because this is the test. This is what the whole season has been building towards. This is what the whole. I'm going to do this one. This is what the whole season has been building to. Watch the NBA playoffs on NBC and Peacock. It's playoff time. Real quick before we get to Mailbag. Like, it ain't gotta be crazy post mortem or whatever, but I'm just really sad about Detroit and just how they went out. Sad. And I just. It was very discouraging because it felt like a flash in a pan as opposed to something that's sustainable. Am I off base or

[Raja Bell]

go ahead.

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't believe that I'm gonna be real. I'm gonna say, okay, all right. I'm gonna say, why? I do think that they're all. But I do think, oh, I'm not.

[Howard Beck]

Well, you asked the question first. I wasn't sure that was rhetorical. If I should actually answer, I'm answering.

[Logan Murdoch]

But it's a fair point. It's a fair, fair point. Well, the. They lost to the team that, like, was supposed to be the most disappointing team in the. In the Eastern Conference, in the Cavs in a game where they absolutely should have had. And there were so many glaring mishaps from the people that are supposed to be their stars. Jalen Duran in particular. And I didn't come. I just didn't come away with that scene. Like, okay, this is the team that's going to dominate the Western. The Eastern Conference for the next five, six years, and we're just going to have to deal with them. I just didn't. It felt like a team that had won a lot of games, had had a great season, but there were just too many flaws that we saw in this postseason that was like. That was pretty glaring, right? Like, you play against a team like the Magic, who essentially had quit. The Stars had quit on their team down that stretch, and they quit on their coach, and they take you to seven when they had no business taking you to seven. And then you have another series against the Cavs where they just Wet the bed in an elimination game. And yeah, sure Mitchell had a big game in Game 7, but you had a James Harden, a prime James Harden game and you couldn't, you literally got wiped off of the floor and you couldn't get offense that whole, that whole closeout game at home. Nonetheless, right, they had a couple punches. They have a, you know, they, they can get physical, but if your best guys can or your second best guy on the team and Jalen Duran, who I do like and you know, I went out to Detroit to go interview him, I do like him, but like, you can't get played off the floor like that if you're going to be a number two option. And just so many flaws within that 60 something game season that they had and they did not have a great showing. That just showed me, hey, this team is just going to be team of the future because of the teams that they played in, the performances that they had against those teams. So yeah, that's how I feel about them.

[Howard Beck]

Just to pull back to the big picture for a second here because I think by the time we get to this stage of the season we're just, all we're thinking is like 60 win team, number one seed, huge disappointment, cool in the, in the moment, fair as a snapshot. But let's pull back two years ago they were a 14 win team. Last year, 44 win team that makes the playoffs as a six seed and loses to the Knicks in the first round in six games. I've made this point before and I'll make it again. I have, I still have not researched it, but I'm pretty sure this is incredibly rare to be a 60 win team that's a number one seed, having never won a single playoff series prior to that. Unless you went out and signed like a LeBron James or something in the off season. A team that was organically young, like a young, organically built team that's just growing step to step, not adding some superstar from the outside. Going from never winning a playoff series to 60 wins in the number one seed. It just doesn't happen. So where they were was deceptive in the sense that I think it put more pressure on them and more expectation than is reasonably fair for a team as young and inexperienced as they are. Especially with Cade and Duran as their tent poles. Jalen Duran had a horrendous series and a pretty bad postseason period. Cade had a shit ton of turnovers. All the things that were glaring concerns with this team that we talked about during the season came to to, to Undermine them right. Secondary playmaking, scoring, three point shooting, all of it. But Jalen Duran's only 22. Kade Super Young like the the future is bright. They. They just need a little bit of retooling. This was never supposed to be the finished product of hey Pistons are here and now they're here to stay. Also not for nothing go back to October. We were all talking about it being a two team race in the east and neither of them were Detroit. It was Nixon, Cleveland, the two teams that lo and behold are in the conference finals against each other. Why? Because we thought Detroit it was too soon. They were a 44 win team that hadn't won a playoff series yet. Too soon for them to rise. Orlando, some people thought they were ready. I we did not on this pod. Atlanta wasn't ready. Boston was supposed to be in a gap year. Obviously they had a fantastic year without Tatum mostly. But it was supposed to be Knicks in Cleveland. That's what we thought in October and here we are. That's the conference finals. I don't think, especially given on paper how much more talent the Cavs have. Even if you don't like the the Garland, Harden, swap at midseason, whatever. Harden, Mitchell, Allen, Mobley and quality supporting cat and quality roll guys around them is more talent and more balanced on paper than what Detroit has right now. So I don't consider this. It's humiliating to get you blown out in game seven at home for sure. I don't want to diminish it. I just think that the Pistons this was all found money for them and they've got a little bit of work to do on the roster. But I'm not once they, they can build that out a little bit, we'll see what they pay Duran, who's a restricted free agent. I think they're going to be fine.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think the Durham piece though is. Is a huge piece in that though, right? Because there's no way that in a playoff series and basically this playoffs was a carbon copy of last year's playoffs for him. Right. And what you don't want is to pay somebody that much money to be a number two. And you're relying on Tobias Harris to be your number two scoring option.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Well, that's the thing.

[Howard Beck]

Tobias. Tobias shouldn't be in that role in the first place. Which is the whole point of like why they need to make changes this summer.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, yeah, but like my, my thing is like you can't outsource it for a number two though, right? Like if, if Duran is going to be your guy. Like, what in the way this cap is right now in the. In the aprons and all of that. Like, if he has to be your guy, do you trade him to get another guy in that way? Because it's very clearly going to be a glaring hole in the postseason if he continues to be like this. Maybe you go get Giannis, perhaps. And. And you got the Asar Thompson contract as well. And he. I think he only shot four threes in the whole postseason and missed all of them.

[Howard Beck]

The Thompson twins both need to. To get an offensive game going and. And jump shots, but, I mean, they're still both amazing. And Asar, I thought, in a lot of ways, had a great series, but. But, yeah, they need more offense on that team, period.

[Logan Murdoch]

But thoughts on Detroit before we get to Mailbag Raja.

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no. You guys. Yeah, you're good.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, all right, all right. Cliff, Cliff, you booed out the two.

[Cliff Boon]

It was good, man. What's up with y', all, man? How y' all feeling?

[Logan Murdoch]

We just Potter for 40 minutes on a game one of a Western Conference finals. We're feeling fantastic.

[Cliff Boon]

Let's get it.

[Logan Murdoch]

That just doesn't happen.

[Cliff Boon]

Let's talk more playoffs. This is from Black Rob in Maine. Hello, fellas.

[Logan Murdoch]

Shout out Black Rob. I see you, big dog. Whoa, whoa. Oh, hello.

[Raja Bell]

Okay.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, all right, all right.

[Cliff Boon]

Hello, fellas. Love this playoff analysis. You guys are killing it. But would love to hear from Roger about playoff adjustments in between games in a series by teams, specifically after a big loss where changes need to be made. What happens when everybody comes into practice or shoot around the next day is their film study as a team. Individual player meetings, dudes getting called out. Really curious as to how that goes down. No need to read my question on air. Just would love to hear some insight from Raja Black Rob in Maine.

[Logan Murdoch]

I see you, Big dog. I see you.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, it's a. I mean, let's see. Yeah. So typically, in a. In a, like, with a regular season situation, you're going to come in, you're going to wash whatever happened that night after the game, and then when you show up the next morning, you're going to get a light understanding of what this team is trying to do to you. You're going to go over, like, five, six, seven of their favorite sets. That might be too many, I don't know. And you're going to walk through that and. And, you know, you'll get a scouting report where if you really want to do some due diligence on your particular Matchup, you can. You can dive into that, like, on your own time when we leave, shoot around and get familiar with said player if you don't know him well enough, and then, you know, basically it's game time in the playoffs, like, we would play a game and we're all going back, especially on the road, right? Like, we're all going back and we're probably going to eat in the. In the hotel together, right? They're going to have a ballroom set up where we'll eat. You're already sitting in your pods of players brainstorming, like, trying to hash out what's going on. There's also a table of coaches at that point who are really diving in to the film that's already been chopped up and trying to figure out what's going on. So by the time you wake up the next morning and you're at breakfast again in the same ballroom, the coaches have already made all the adjustments, you know, that they think are necessary. Players are, again, kind of doing their thing. After breakfast, we're going to sit down and there's going to be a bunch of film showed from last night's game. There are going to be every instance that we thought we executed correctly and, you know, most of the instances that we thought we didn't execute correctly, and we are going to talk about, like, why it worked, why it didn't work. We're going to make necessary changes then, I mean, depending on. Yeah, probably have a walkthrough. So we'll take it in and we will. We'll take that to practice. We're going to just walk through all of these things. This isn't live. We're not hooping. It's too late in the season. You don't want to risk injury. But these are detailed walkthroughs where, okay, boom. They ran, you know, zoom, action. Howard's now got the ball. He's on the. The left side of the court. We know he likes to go left. Like, what is our. What is our plan? How are we going to execute that? Let's walk through it. Let's walk through it. Boom. All right, we got it. That's what you're going to do, right? And then you're going to get your shots up, you're going to do your thing. But. But that's. That's on your mind for the rest of the night. Like, you're walking through all of those details and how you're going to approach it from an individual perspective. You're walking with that sheet. I told you about. It was a sheet when I played. It's probably like the cutups on your phone now of what Howard likes to do. So, like, where I told you, like, in a regular season game, I'm looking at that, like, in. Shoot around. I'm briefly reading it. When I get back to the hotel room, I might sit down there and watch the video a little bit. Right before the jump ball goes off in the playoffs. You're obsessing over that, and then you're comparing that. Right. And I'm asking our film guy to send me every clip of what I did last night when Howard did X, Y, and Z. Let me see how many I got right. Let me see how effective I was doing it. Let me see where I can, like, clean that up. You just have the time to do that in the playoffs in a different way. I don't know if that helped, but that's kind of the way that works.

[Logan Murdoch]

Pure Raja. I don't know if that was. I don't know if that was great after he just fucking. Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I don't know if people, like. But, like, that's. That's what it. That's what it looks like.

[Howard Beck]

I think the one other element, though, Raj, I'm curious about is, like, is there an emotional hangover in the midst of all that? Because, like, you've got all the technical stuff and you've just gone through. This is how we prepare. This is how we adjust. This is how we work through the day and all this. But, like, if you just got blown out or if it's just like. If you're just. If it's one of those, like. Like what. What the thunder maybe are going through today, even just a double overtime loss and now down 01 in a series, when you're the higher seat, like, the. Where is. How much of the emotional stuff do you have to go through? Or is it just. Do you just get, like, in the weeds and.

[Logan Murdoch]

And.

[Howard Beck]

And that's it? Like, you're not thinking about the last thing.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean, everybody processes that different, right? Like, everybody's got their own ability to, like, flush what happened. Like, some of us do it quicker than. Than others. You get back that night, Howard, you're pissed. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I'm talking. We're talking shop. We're talking business. We're talking about, like, what we didn't do well, but everyone is pissed that night. You know what I mean? Like, this is. We let this get away. By the next morning, though, Howard, usually we're you gotta flush, you know, and some guys might be hanging onto it, but we gotta move because it's moving, they're moving. And, you know, it's the old ad. You can't let one turn into two, you know what I mean? Like, one miss shot can't turn into two missed shots because you're thinking about the first missed shot. You got to keep moving forward. So, you know, it. It really does become, in playoff situations, like, the best compartmentalizers, like the best A that happened, it sucked, or I didn't do my job well, and I own that. But I'm not going to fuck that up again. The people who do that, the best, typically, you know, there's more that goes into it. You got to have a good team and all of that, but, like, they're usually more successful.

[Cliff Boon]

Let's get to this next one. This is from Eric Calhoun. Why LeBron won't take a discount. I keep seeing people wonder if LeBron will take a discount to be on a contender. Doesn't he want to be a team owner? And didn't we watch Alex Rodriguez turning over his couch cushions trying to come up with the last 100 mil he needed to get the Wolves? I don't see the discount coming. The LeBron is set for life.

[Raja Bell]

Righty.

[Cliff Boon]

Argument collapses if he's trying to be a big part of a multi billion dollar purchase. Love the show, gents. Eric in Durham, North Carolina. Howard, that one is for you.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, that's for Howard. Okay. Okay. Is that for Howard? Did they say that?

[Cliff Boon]

It doesn't say that, but it's. I just.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, it's not a. I was. I had something for that when I had something. Here's the thing, bro. You could say, you could say, though, you could say that you're not gonna take a discount all you want, bro, but you still asking these people for money. And the fact is, ain't nobody gonna pay a max deal. And for LeBron James and him actually get everything that he says that he wants. It's not gonna happen, bro. I'm sorry. Like, he can say, he can posture, he can do all those things, but then you go around and get 50 million from the Pelicans. I don't even think they can even do that. Right. Like, that's just not happening right now. I'm sorry. It's not.

[Howard Beck]

Here's the. Here's the thing.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is Howard's question. So go ahead.

[Howard Beck]

According to Forbes, they estimate everybody's net worth. Forbes says LeBron's worth 1.4 billion. So let's take that at face value. NBA teams are going for like a minimum of 5 billion now, and the expansion teams, they're trying to get like 8 to 10 billion. So LeBron making 50 to 55 million in a max deal versus taking a quote unquote discount that pays him only 10 or 15 million ain't gonna make a dent in the expansion fee or whatever it costs to buy an existing team. So these are. These are in different ballparks entirely. So. Fair point to the listener. Thank you for the question, Eric, but no, like, what LeBron makes in his probably final season is a matter of millions, tens of millions, and teams are selling for billions. Also, most majority owners now aren't paying any of this. They're getting like a lot of private equity help. They're. They've got partners, and these are multibillionaires. Like, that's the bar now, is to be a multibillionaire partnering with other multibillionaires or private equity. LeBron is a single billionaire, only so broke. So anyway, just a little perspective on that.

[Logan Murdoch]

We broke as hell. Yeah, man. All of that. He's. I mean, LeBron is basically going to be like a. A Magic Johnson or. And that's not. No shade. I want Magic's money right now. I could take it. But he's going to be the face of an ownership group. He's not necessarily, like, he's not going to be the. The days of, like Howard said, of single person or single entity. Unless you're like Steve Ballmer, like Bezos or like maybe Tim Cook or something like that. There's only a finite amount of people that can actually just do it as one person in this world. But Braun is just going to be like a face. Maybe he gets like a 10 equity or something like that. But that's. That's kind of what. What I. If it happens, if it happens at all. Because here's the thing. It's. It's been hilarious, right? Because, like, you know, remember the talk around the play in was like, yeah, LeBron's gonna try to get the first plane, not players playing. Excuse me. The talk around the first in season tournament was, oh, this is. There's buzz. Like, who's gonna get the Vegas team? Who's gonna get the Vegas team? And LeBron was just trying to put his bid in and you see him wearing like the Las Vegas Aces shirt and. And you know, trying to ingratiate himself in Vegas. And like, in recent years, it's been like kind of a. A Denial for him and like, like he's gotten denied by the powers that be. Like, hey, not so Fast. You are LeBron. But like, yeah. And it's been. That's been fascinating to see. So different.

[Raja Bell]

It's a different club, dog.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's a club, Roger. Different club. Different club. We got another one. Or is that this last one is

[Cliff Boon]

just a shout out to Howard Beck for the real one of the week? This is from Chase. I'm hoping to say his last name. Kariko Cariso. What up, Beck? As an openly gay man who absolutely loves basketball and absolutely loves the NBA, I simply have to give you your flowers to say thank you. Jason Collins came out at a time when I had figured out I was gay but had not yet come out. His coming out and actually signing a deal and playing NBA games after the fact absolutely blew my mind and it gave me some hope for the world. Your words, the Zach Low posts were amazing. Perhaps more impactful than anything I could say. You quite literally brought tears to my eyes. Thank you. Love the pod. My real one of the week is Howard MF ing Beck Bayee.

[Logan Murdoch]

Wow.

[Cliff Boon]

Salute.

[Howard Beck]

Thank you, Chase. Appreciate that. I think you conflated both of the. The two times I mentioned. I did mention it on Zach's pod, I think first and then I mentioned it on our pod for I did make Jason Collins real one of the week last week. But wow. No, that was. That's very kind, Chase. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Appreciate it. Appreciate the note.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yes, sir. Man. Shout out, Chase. Shout out to all the real ones. Shout out to everybody that that submits to the real ones. Mailbag. Romans. Mailbag. Gmail.com realonesmailback gmail.com realonesmailbag gmail.com we will see you guys on Friday night, man. And I believe that is going to be game of three of Spurs OkC. So we're just gonna be talking about Spurs OkC for, you know, for the rest of this time, for the rest of us. And I'm okay with that. As you can see. We had 45 minutes of it. I think we could do another 45 minute segment on Raja.

[Howard Beck]

Might even stay up for it.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I'll see y'.

[Logan Murdoch]

All.

[Raja Bell]

Let me know, Roger.

[Logan Murdoch]

We'll see you Friday night, baby. All right, man. Tap in all this shits. Talk to y' all soon. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgbackslash chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text Hope why in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.