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- [00:00]
A
What's poppin? Logan Murdoch here with another edition of Real Ones with myself, Howard Beck and Raja Bell. We get into a lot. We talk about the Wimby injury and how that affects the San Antonio spurs and also how it affects the league. Right. Not only from a marquee guy being injured, but also what injuries have done in the pace of the game has done for the player body and where we are as a league. Also the basketball culture with playing games, professionalizing the league not only now, but for kids at a young age that may not even get to this point because of what is happening to their bodies. And then we get into a discussion about player fan interactions in light of what happened with Draymond Green in New Orleans. Then we talk about Willie Green briefly and the Pelicans organization. Yuck. Man, I don't know what's going to happen with basketball in New Orleans, but the Pelicans brass clearly isn't invested in the team with the moves that they're making. It's pretty hard. And then we get into a really interesting discussion with the Mailbag where we talk about again, future of the league. What's going on with Anthony Edwards is who which star is primed to take the next step not only from an individual standpoint as Anthony Edwards, but also what a team can build around them with the Timberwolves and if they are going to be in prime position to do well. And then I think that was about it, man. It was a really, really fun show. I had a blast. We had great insight from Big Cliff and great production from Vivi. So that's our show. Cliff, play the theme music. What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Howard Beck in the cut. Got a great show for you today. Action packed. Let's bring in our, our buddy, our producer in crime, Big CC Cartier. Cliff is in the building. What's going on, buddy?
- [01:56]
B
What's going on, man? Back. Raj, Logan, what's up with y', all, man? How y' all feeling today?
- [02:01]
A
I'm a little down. I'm a little down. As everybody knows, it was a really hard Monday night for me. But, you know, we're, we're managing and hoping for the best for our sports teams, I guess.
- [02:12]
B
I guess your Raiders didn't do much for you. So there's that.
- [02:16]
C
You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel. FanDuel now displays your bet directly on your phone's lock screen. And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game and Missouri get excited because FanDuel's coming your way December 1st. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheesy Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It? That would be a top notch podcast. You could hear them crunching in my mouth. You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain. Oh man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you. Anyway, what was I talking about? Oh yeah. Oh, Cheez It. Yeah, Cheez It Crackers. Go check them out.
- [03:19]
B
Anyways, speaking of down bad, the spurs, man, you're your MVP pick Victor Wembanyama looks to be out for a little bit here. The spurs are currently fifth in the West 9 and 5. According to ESPN, Victor Wembiama will be out for two to three weeks with the expectation to be evaluated in two to three weeks with apparent calf injury. Now Wemby's been hooping this year, as we know. Yeah, Raj's face, it seems a little bit scary with the calf injury, so we should should be cautioned here. But Logan, man, how about your MVP pick, Victor Wembanyama with a calf injury? How do you feel about that?
- [03:56]
A
I'm pretty bummed. I'm not going to lie. Not because I'm probably not going to be right anymore and that my pick isn't going to come to fruition. But more than anything, when you talk about calf injuries now, I think we should we're starting to talk about them in the more appropriate way and we shouldn't look at these injuries as like a weeks long injury. We should look at this in terms of months because calves are one of those annoying injuries that could lead to something even worse. As we saw with kd, we saw with Tyrese Halliburton and all. I think overall it's just a bummer for the league. Right? And I think that this is something that is over the last two years is kind of haunting. Wimby, right. When you talk about the injury last season and you talk about this one like it's taking chunks away from his young season and you don't want to have that for a young guy within his career. And these are pretty like significant injuries. One that, you know, got him out of the, for the rest of the year last season. And this one's gonna set him back. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if he's back maybe top of the year as opposed to Christmas, because I just, I mean, just when you talk about calf injuries, they're just so tricky. And anytime that that has happened, particularly in the playoffs, is when they have gotten, when they have happened the most, right? And then you, you see they, they take players out for multiple series on end because they're so unpredictable and if you play on them hard enough, it could lead to an Achilles tear. And that's what you really don't want, especially for a franchise guy and a league altering guy, a league pillar like Wimby. So it's just sad all around. I'm sad, you know, from a, a personal standpoint because I'm not going to be right. But I think I'm also just sad for just the league in general because like he was one of the marquee guys to watch on a given night and you know, he's coming off of two losses with the Warrior against the warriors, but two incredible games from him and it just sucks. I think all the way around is.
- [05:51]
C
The biggest thing this is. I feel like the pattern of this season so far, every great thing that happens suddenly gets counterbalanced by something awful happening. And with the spurs, it's almost literal, right? Because like Wemby coming out of the gates just like swatting shots all over the place, lighting it up offensively. The spurs being one of the fun surprise teams initially overshadowed by oops. Gambling investigation and then in this. And now like Wemby himself is out. But I feel like that was the opening week of the season, was, holy shit. Wemby's taking over. Oh God. Gambling investigation. And it's just, it's been like this, right? Like every, it feels like every great thing that's happened has been offset. I'm not as worried about Logan's MVP predictions as Logan is, because it's your prediction, not mine. But I will say this. Wemby's out. They're saying two to three weeks before he's reevaluated. So it could be longer. Maybe it's three, maybe it's four. I hope it's not as long as you were just talking about. But even if it's only three weeks, that's 11 games. Another week after that, he would be have missed 14. You can only miss 17 before you fall off the eligibility list for postseason awards. And like, like this is a. I, I feel like whether it's this season or soon, we're gonna have some really warped results because of the 65 game rule. I, I get why they did it. I understand it. But sometimes you're just really injured and it's gonna knock out serious MVP candidates or all NBA candidates. And granted we might have not voted them in anyway because games played is always a factor for voters, but it just, it blows. You guys want me to go through a list of injuries right now just to, just to reset this?
- [07:41]
A
Let's just, let's get it real depressing. Let's do it.
- [07:43]
C
It's real depressing. Significant players who didn't even start the season who were out on opening night, a couple of them have come back. Opening night we did not have. Jalen Williams, Kyrie Irving. De' Aaron Fox has since come back. Tyler Herro hasn't played yet. LeBron coming soon. Darius Garland has come back and gone again. Fred Van Vliet, Damian Lillard, Jayson Tatum, Tyrese Halliburton. Those last four probably not going to be seen this season. Paul George finally came back last night. Kobe White, Mitchell Robinson, Dejounte Murray out right now. Who were not on that list. Guys who have been hurt since the season started. Wemby Giannis last night. Anthony Davis, Trey Young, Jalen Brunson, John Morant, OG Anunoby, Paolo Banchero, Cade Cunningham, the last few games. Walker Kessler, out for the season. Bradley Beal, out for the season. Christian Brown, Garland again, bam. Out of bio. Bunch of Pacers. Cam Thomas, Dylan Harper, Jalen Green, Zion Williamson, Derek Jones, Jr. Torren Prince, Jordan Pool, Tobias Harris. There's a few non significant names in there, but those are mostly like guys who are important to their team. And then like we've had like Lamelo Ball was out for a bunch of games. Derek Lively was out for a bunch of games. Like it's just been a fucking shit show. Like that is a, that is a very long and mostly significant list of names. And it's put a severe crimp in a lot of teams in the early part of the season. Sorry for the depressing list there.
- [09:01]
D
Yeah, that's, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean my first, my mind first goes to like that calf injury with, with Wemby. It's a, it's a, you know, it's an interesting injury because there are degrees to which you constrain that calf. And then there are specific areas within the calf that. That I think would have. Would more so affect an Achilles if it were to be strained in that area, right? Like, if you got it way high up on the rock and it's not a terrible strain. I don't. I don't know. I'm not a trainer or a doctor. But those. Those don't seem to be the ones where you really put that Achilles. The ones that really put that Achilles in jeopardy are the ones where you can see that guy take the step back and kind of see, like, the. The pop in the calf, if you will, the ripple in the muscle. Like, that's a real significant tear. So I'm just saying. I'm saying that to say that if his is minor and it's not a significant one, it could be very realistic that he's back in a couple weeks. They may already be erring on the side of that caution that we are prescribing for them, right? Like, oh, I just feel something in there. And they're like, hey, let's shut it down now before this becomes something that lingers. That's my hope for him, right? That it's not a. It's not one of those ones. Because I've said before, you can trick yourself into thinking that I can run on that calf. Because when things are scripted and when they're asking you to perform certain drills to kind of make sure that you're healthy, you know the drill, right? So you can protect the calf with certain movements, but as soon as it goes live and it's spontaneous movement, you can no longer protect it. And that's when the danger presents itself. Right, Howard? As it. You know, I've often thought about this. People ask me all the time about injuries now versus injuries, then style of play now versus style of play then, and the correlation between the two and I don't have the answer, but I do think it's interesting because our pace is so much higher now for these guys, you know, like, you guys, everyone knows that. Listens. I'm not a super analytical dude, but I think the math on how many miles you run now in a game versus how many miles you ran in the, you know, early 2000s in a game would be significantly higher. And every mile you put on a body, it's like a car. You're getting that mile closer to the odometer. And the point in which that car says, hey, that's enough. And so that's interesting to me, right? Because these guys, while there is so Much more space and the game is wide open and, and it's fun to watch at times. And they're way more creative as players than we ever were. I will tell you that, like, it's hard to play that style. You have to train to play that style. Your body, when you're, when your body's like finely tuned. You ever heard about a fighter coming into a fight and being like two in shape? Do you know what I mean? Like they've been trained to a point and they've been ready for so long that now they've almost gone to the other side of the pendulum with that. Like they're like kind of too ready. I say that to say that when you're playing that old style where we're coming down and we're in floppy and we're in these sets, like there's a way that you could play those not at your optimum level of conditioning, right? So you're not like on the precipice of being over conditioned because like the game's not that fast. We're basically walking it up every possession. Like we need to be stronger than we are actually in like cardio shape. But now, boy, you gotta be in some cardio shape, man. These jokers are getting up and down, they're running. And so I just wonder if there's any correlation between how wide open the game is. How if there are. Actually to my eye it says there are way more miles being ran in a game than, than there were back then. But like, that's where my mind goes when we see the rash of injuries, right? Like, sure, they train more from younger, they, they play exponentially more games through the youth circuits, grassroots, you know, and everything coming up. Like these games, some of these kids are playing NBA seasons in, in, in fifth and sixth grade. Like 80, 100 games in a summer. Like we weren't doing that. So by the time you get to the NBA and now you're playing this faster pace, like, I mean, there's gotta be something there.
- [13:17]
C
No, no, we, we touched on this when I was going off on Michael Jordan a week or two ago because of his whole load management thing. And yeah, the fact is we don't have, you know, we don't have tracking stats from back in the day. Right. There were no tracking cameras in NBA arenas in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. But we have tracking cameras now. They know exactly how many miles per game guys are running and miles per season. And even in the tracking era, which is whatever a decade or so, And I think there's estimates for the past and there's also just plain observation, right? We know that the pace is way, way up. There are way more possessions a game. The game is incredibly spread out because of the reliance on three point shooting now. So, yes, guys are running more miles a game. They are having to also cover much more ground defensively every possession. All you have to do is pull up YouTube from like the 90s, early 2000, two, thousands, watch what a possession, typical possession looks like, and look at what it looks like now. It's not just dumping the ball inside to somebody and then everybody's standing around watching while he backs this guy down. It's a different game. And all of that factors in. And the AAU thing factors in too. I, I always reference Baxter Holmes, great piece from, I think it was 2019 on ESPN.com where it was a massive exploration and investigation into the wear and tear on players that's happening long before they ever get to the NBA. Adam Silver's quoting that story as having, you know, serious concerns about this. Medical people, trainers, everybody. Like, this is a real thing. But a story like that happens and then it gets pushed to the background. And then we sit here and we fret about all these injuries or we fret about load management and we say, why aren't guys playing more? Why are they, if we have all this load management, why do they still all get hurt? Because they're coming in with their bodies already degraded from the AU circuit in a lot of cases and because the style of the game is different now. Like, and I don't, I don't know how the NBA deals with that. Like, I don't know how this is fixable, but it's a pretty big problem when you consider the list of names I ran down a minute ago.
- [15:11]
A
Well, I mean, you're, what you're seeing is, you know, health versus capitalism here, right? Where, you know, Adam Silver on one hand is talking about how AAU is hurting and, you know, guys are, you know, getting hurt with the pace of play, but then, you know, he's adding an NBA cup with extra games that don't actually matter.
- [15:31]
C
Right? Well, there's only one extra game though, right? Like, if you make it to the championship, it's one extra game. Everybody else is playing 80.
- [15:36]
A
But it's not just that. But it's just not just that, right? Like, if you say you do, like Coach Dags was talking about this a couple weeks ago, right? Where, you know, if you do strive for an NBA cup, you're traveling an extra trip that you wouldn't otherwise travel, it also messes up, you know, you know, your scheduling when you're just a random trip to Vegas and then you come back to wherever you're going and maybe you get a day off sometimes. Most times you just don't get an extra day and then what are you playing for, right? And so that's when I say that the capitalism comes into this, right? Because that's extra TV money, that's extra TV dollars. And then I just don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube unless you just, just are honest with yourself and say, hey, we need to do what's best for the game. And while we may not get the extra bread from the NBA cup or any other of these games or will have a healthier product that can, that can play in these games, we'll have, you know, more players being able to play on more nights. But I don't think this is just an NBA issue. Right. The W goes through this, right? You know, Satu Sable talked about how they play too many games and they're going through that same thing with their collective bargaining agreement because the, the league wants more money to coming in NFL say every year it seems like they're trying to get an extra game on the schedule. Right. So this is, this is something that is going to be a sports wide issue, having more games. So we'll just see what happens. But I don't think that there's going to be a contraction, even though there probably should be. Right. Or if it's not the NBA, but it's, you know.
- [17:09]
D
Yeah, it's always, it's all. It's been too many games before pace became an issue, before any of Those factors like 80, 82 games on a, on a, on a body over that course of time. And you factor in, you know, training camp and what have you. Like that's a lot of basketball, man. People. You learn how to really not feel your body, if that makes sense, right? Like you learn how to tune out a whole lot of things that ordinarily if you didn't have to go play a sport for a living, you'd wake up and be like, yo, what the fuck is that? Why does it, why do I feel that? But like when you're in the midst of, of that career, those just become like your daily thing. So like your body is telling you the whole time, you know, no matter what the LeBron's do and what he does is an extraordinary thing to witness in terms of prepping his body for this task. Like, it's really amazing to watch him invest in it and go through the process of getting himself ready to play. And even in that world, he's still not feeling great. When you go out there, like, you just can't. It's too many games. But I would say that again, this is. Because this is my realm. This is where I live now, what they do in youth basketball. And it is really capitalism at that point. Like, anybody can throw a tournament now. So it used to be that AAU was kind of the best of the best played that, right? And then it became like the shoe companies. If you're anybody on the scene as a high school kid, you're playing in any of these shoe companies products. Like AAU is kind of a back burner product now. But not only do they have that, but they also have, especially locally here in Miami. And I'm assuming it's like this everywhere else, but like where AAU doesn't throw something. And when they don't throw something, they're all kind of local entities that are just putting together. They're running out gyms and they've got their, their league that people can go play in. And mom and dad always think that Jenny or Johnny is missing out if they're not playing. Somebody out there is getting better than them if they're not out there playing this weekend. And it's, it's. It's pervasive. Like, everyone's doing it. And I, you know, I say to my wife all the time because we get caught up in. I'm like, cindy, this is too much. Like, there's too much. He does not need to be playing four games in, in. In December every weekend when that's going to go all the way through August. Like that. Do the math. That's too much.
- [19:38]
C
Well, the, the re. And by the way, the real proof of Logan's point and your point, Raja, about this being a capitalism versus health issue, is that if you design the NBA schedule right now from scratch, in absence of any considerations about revenue, TV contracts or anything else, you wouldn't go 82 games. You'd probably go 60, 66 or whatever it would be. And if you were doing it based on what the best balance is for highest level of competition, consistency of that competition, what's in the best interest of the players and their longevity, it would be a shorter season. Everybody knows this. Everybody knows you would do it. You would have a shorter season if you were actually doing what was the healthiest and Best for the product as a whole, as opposed to what makes the most money. And that's not even a criticism. It's just an observation. It's just the reality. And 82 game season would take, you know, reducing that would take both the players and the owners agreeing to shorten it. And neither party wants to. The players will say that they do in, in certain moments, but when it comes down to it at the bargaining table, they're never going to agree to it because it's, it's tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions, whatever. It's going to be reduction of revenue. They're not knowing.
- [20:52]
A
We saw that in the bubble, right when they were, when they were about to go in the bubble and they were like, the, the. That the players were like, oh, I don't know if we're going to play this season. Then the owners came back and said, we're going to lose this many billions of dollars. We're there where we got to go.
- [21:06]
C
Oh, you want me to. You want me to sequester myself for three months? Where do I sign two.
- [21:10]
D
Two thoughts, like, really, like, honestly, you guys just touched on it. Like, if you. Every single. Well, not every single person. Most players, if put to them, hey, man, we can shorten it. You'll feel better. Or we'll keep it as it is and you'll make more money. No brainer. Let's make the money. But secondly, weirdly, when you said, like, if you scheduled it, it would fall around 60, if you had just asked me generally, hey, man, what amount of games do you think you could play before you started feeling, like, really burnt out and shitty? I would have settled around 60 games just off the top. Like, just knowing the ins and outs of a season, I would have told you, you know, anywhere from 55 to 65 games, you probably feel okay. Like, that feels normal. And then when you start getting over those numbers, then you're starting to be like, oh, shit, man.
- [21:54]
B
This is a.
- [21:55]
D
This is a grind.
- [21:56]
A
Yeah.
- [21:57]
B
Who.
- [21:58]
A
One last note before we get to the next. Get the next segment. Wimby has been playing professional basketball since he was 15 years old, was 2019. It's not. This is. This is very cut and dry about what's happening here. Cliff, what's the next. What's the next segment, buddy?
- [22:16]
B
The next segment is my two favorite words in basketball. Howard, can you guess what they are?
- [22:21]
C
Detroit basketball.
- [22:23]
B
Let's go, baby. Let's go. The Pistons have won. The pistons have won 10 straight. Last night for the first time since 0708. They're 12 and two first and he's. Howard, can you guess who was in that lineup for the Pistons that night OR no.
- [22:36]
C
@ 0708? I have not looked this up.
- [22:38]
B
I just looked it up. I just looked it up.
- [22:41]
C
Rip Hamilton still there.
- [22:42]
B
Rip Hamilton.
- [22:44]
C
Chauncey's gone by then. Is Iverson still there?
- [22:47]
A
No, no, no, no, no, no. Chauncey's still there.
- [22:48]
C
Chaunceau's still there. Chauncey's still there. Chauncey's portrait. Chauncey's still there. Tayshawn Prince still there?
- [22:53]
B
Yes, sir. She's still there. Who's this last guy?
- [22:57]
C
Is it. It's not. It's not Ben still, is it?
- [23:00]
B
No.
- [23:01]
A
No baller though.
- [23:02]
B
Hooper, though. Super hooper though.
- [23:04]
A
McDy.
- [23:05]
B
Yes, it was McDyce. Look at y'.
- [23:09]
A
All.
- [23:09]
B
Let's go, man. I'm happy. I'm glad y' all got that one.
- [23:12]
A
Dude, hold on real quick. I would like to note how. I would like to note how mentioned in the pre pod meeting that we had yesterday when I said that Chauncey got traded that summer for Iverson and to Denver. It was a swap and it basically ended the Pistons run and supercharged the Denver Nuggets to them.
- [23:32]
C
You said that in our meeting yesterday.
- [23:34]
A
I did. You don't pay attention, but it's cool.
- [23:36]
D
There was a meeting yesterday?
- [23:39]
A
Yeah, it was a meeting.
- [23:41]
D
Okay.
- [23:42]
A
All right. That was a meeting.
- [23:44]
D
I didn't pay attention either, Howard.
- [23:46]
C
Sometimes I just space out Logan.
- [23:49]
B
So that was. That was the starting line of the last time they won. They won 10 games straight in a row there. Jalen Duran last night. First of all, happy birthday to Jalen Durham, man. Had a hell of a game last night. Pistols whooped up on the Pacers 127. Whooping the Pistons whooped up on the Pacers 127, 112. Duran dominated. 31 points, 1213 shooting, 15 rebounds, 3 assists. He's only the seventh time in NBA history that was recorded. The Detroit Pistons 122 first in the east. K. Cunningham hasn't even played the last couple games. Fellas, how we feel about the Detroit Pistons? Man, I'm all Detroited out. I watched some Eminem Dockery last documentary last night. I'm all in on the 313, man. I'm really. Everybody in the 313 shout out to everybody in the 313, man.
- [24:34]
D
Yeah, no, they're. I mean, I'll start. They're. They're tough, man. They're. They're. And I mean that in like Figuratively and literally, they're tough as hell. Like they are a very, very stout defensive team. I mean, they represent Detroit. And when you, when you heard that Detroit basketball, when you were on the opposing team, you walked in the, that arena, you knew what it, what time it was. Like that shit was about to get physical, it was about to get punitive. Like you were going to leave there icing some shit up. Like that was going to be not, not the best poker the plane because everybody was going to be feeling something. That's kind of how they play. I mean they, offensively, I mean, clearly, you know, Jalen Duran made some huge strides as a player. I mean just, he had a possession last night, like defended, boarded, pushed it down, went to set up offense, didn't like it, worked his way down into the post like a no pass possession and then gave him that work and hit the little jumper on the baseline. I was like, oh shit. Like he's come a long way. Cade. Some of the pieces that they picked up have all been helpful, but they're, they're really physical even offensively. I mean they lead, they're a league leader or amongst them in points in the paint, right? Like they're a league leader or amongst them in offensive rebounds. These are physical style. This is physical basketball, dog. Like, this is stuff that, that you don't want to play against when you show up on the third game of a road trip. Like you just don't want to see somebody that's going to beat you up physically. So they, they do those type of things. Defensively they're very similar. Um, you know, they're turning you over, they're blocking shots, they're amongst lead leaguer, excuse me, league leaders in terms of points against in the paint, which means they defend the shit out of the rim. They're just a really good basketball team, man. And then they don't, they don't buckle. Like they've had multiple games where they're playing from behind and they just stick with that shit and they'll pull it out. Like there's some seasoning on that. So I think it's a very sustainable model. I think it's a, you know, a roster that's continuing to develop and get better. And I've said it, this is any sport that is a contact sport, you give me almost equal skill levels, but one team that's clearly more physical and more aggressive than the other, I'll bet on that clearly more physical and aggressive team every single time. I might not win every bet, but over the course of time, I'm going to win more bets than I lose.
- [27:09]
C
To your point.
- [27:10]
A
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
- [27:11]
C
No, go ahead, look.
- [27:12]
A
Go look to your point, Raja. About the physicality. I have a, a stat that just adds on to that, right? They have the highest free throw rate in the league, but it doesn't matter because they allow the second lowest field goal percentage and the second lowest effective field goal percentage in the league. That's a hat tip to Zach Harper from the Athletic, but that tells me that they're kicking ass and they're say, yeah, you can get your points in the free throw line, that's fine. We're locking everything else up. We don't give a. And then the second point to that is the east is so comically bad. Especially when we talked about with Giannis being hurt right now, right? Because I'm looking at their upcoming schedule and I'm thinking like, man, when are they going to get tested in a way that I, that, that where we can really see their metal, right? And tonight they play Atlanta. I don't know if I'm going to get a good gauge on who they are. Then they play Milwaukee, when I just talked to you about Giannis, and then they play Indiana and then they're at Boston. They could, they have stretches like this because they're in the Eastern Conference, where I, they could just run up, run it up with the record and also gain confidence. And so when it's time to play somebody really good and they have their west coast swing, they're going to be playing on all cylinders. This is a real team to watch. I do, I, I, I think with their style of play, and I know Cliff is starting to have the biggest smile on his face right now, but with, with the style of play that they have, combined with what the Eastern Conference is right now, they could really be something during the regular season. I don't know exactly what they're going to be in the postseason, although they do play a great postseason brand of basketball. If you don't believe me, ask the Knicks in that first round series last year. But I love the maturation that we're seeing from them. And I think during his ascension from being a double double guy that is making, that was maybe 11 and 10 and now bumping that up to 20 and 10, 12, excuse me, takes a lot of pressure off a cade and really gives them the depth that they need to be a contender, because that's what you need. You need star power, but you also need depth, especially in this apron NBA And I think that the Pistons have it right now and Duran is the key to all of that. It's not Cade, it is Duran.
- [29:29]
C
The proof of that depth piece, Logan. So they've won 10 in a row, right? They've won the last three of those without Cade because he's got the hip injury. They've won the last four without a Sar Thompson. They missed Duran for two of those games. They haven't had Tobias Harris for the last eight games for almost forgotten Tobias Harris. Really key, important part of their breakthrough season last year and still probably an important part of this team. He hasn't played for a couple of weeks and by the way, Jaden Ivy has yet to play this season and he's probably coming back, I would think, in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, it's great that they have great depth. They've got a really nice mix of youth and vets and their youth are now playing like vets. Right. Like Cade has made another leap night. Not as dramatic of a leap this season, but he's, he's, you know, notched it up a little bit higher again. He's, he's averaging almost 10 assists a game, which would be a career high. He's averaging over six free throws, excuse me, nearly eight free throw attempts per game, which is a career high and six made per game during career highs in both points and rebounds during career highs in free throw attempts and free throws. Like they're, they're aggressive, they are getting inside, they're collapsing defenses, they are attacking, they're just, they're barely scratching the surface in some ways because of how young those two are. And they don't even seem to miss the guys that they let walk over the summer. Right? Tim Hardaway Jr. Dennis Schroeder. Beasley's out there somewhere. Like they could use Beasley shooting like they signed Duncan Robinson, but like they're still like they're one of the lower teams in three point shooting. They could still use more shooting, but man, and then they get, then they have discoveries like Dennis Jenkins, who's been filling in for Cade, who played for three different colleges. Undrafted in 2024, he's on his second two way deal with the Pistons. The man's playing on a two way deal and in his last three games, the three starts he's made for Cade, he's averaging 21 and nine assists.
- [31:37]
D
Like, no, that how. Sorry, Howard, that struck me last night. I want you to keep going. But like I remember being on a 10 day and I was not acting like Buddy Was acting last night when I watched like he. And not in a bad way, but like he was like, yo, this fucking ball is mine. Yeah, it was pretty cool to watch.
- [31:55]
C
Firmly in control, very confident for a guy on his second two way deal after being undrafted.
- [32:00]
D
Oh, two way. My bad.
- [32:01]
A
Two way, I think.
- [32:03]
C
But that's, that's two ways is like. But yeah, they didn't, didn't exist in your time. Right. So.
- [32:06]
D
Right.
- [32:07]
A
Well, I think the other thing, and I want to get Roz's perspective on this, though, one thing that, that really does strike me about the Detroit Pistons is when you want, when you have teams at this stage, you want an inherent motivation.
- [32:18]
D
Right.
- [32:18]
A
And you want to inherit people that all have chips on their shoulders. And I think that the Pistons, I think what illustrates this play is the fact that they do have so many chips on their shoulders. Right. When you talk about J.B. bickerstaff, who is probably still feeling this thing of losing the Cavs job and seeing what the Cavs have done, it feels like he has something to prove. Right. Then you have Cade, who's the leader of the team, who went through that 28 game losing streak and was the face of it. And we had real questions a few years ago, like, who is Cade Cunningham? Is he going to be a guy? Right. And then, you know, you go down the roster of all these redemption stories and all these people, and that really puts something in their bones and they have that chip on their shoulder. And I think that there. We saw that last year, Rajan. I think we're going to get the graduation, if you will, of that this season. I really am high on the Pistons from everything that I read and I see with my own eyes.
- [33:13]
D
Yeah. Like motivation and hunger. That, that kind of innate chip. That's a hard. Those are hard things to quote, unquote, talk about. Like, you gotta be about that. That's gotta be bred into you. It's gotta be circumstantially, like, put into you by the way you've been treated. Like, that's not something that you walk into a locker room with a bunch of dudes and just start, hey, man, we're gonna have a chip on our shoulder. We're gonna be tougher. Like, you don't do that. You have to accumulate pieces to your point, Logan, that have that feeling about themselves already. And it doesn't have to be everybody in your locker room, but you need a majority of people that kind of have that somewhere deep inside them. And then you need somebody and you gave JB his flowers, because I was going to do it next. You got to have somebody that unlocks that. And not just unlocks it, but embodies it himself. So when he's preaching that, the. The. The guys in that locker room that feel like that too, they can't see it as fake, right, like that. Because locker rooms will sift you out. Like, if you're a poser, if that shit's not real, they're going to find that out pretty quick. So they got to feel that when you're talking to them. And they've got the right mix of that. I think you're absolutely correct. Like, they got the right mix of guys, coaches, circumstances. Obviously. You talked about how bad they were a few years ago for the Perfect Storm to be kind of like right now. And I just. I know what it's like walking into buildings. The Pistons were a team that were hard for us to be. We were really, really, really good offensive team, right. And there were other teams that were hard for us to beat, but the Pistons specifically stick out to me because they weren't the best offensive team, but they.
- [35:06]
A
Quite the opposite.
- [35:07]
D
Yeah, they historically played very well against us and probably. I don't have the stats, but probably beat us more times than we beat them when I was on the team because of how physical they were, how. How that affected us as a team that wanted to be offensive driven. And then our defense that wasn't great was exposed even more because we didn't have tough enough dudes to stand up and take away some of the stuff they wanted to do over and over and over again because of the punitive style they played, the punishing style that they were coming at you with. And so that, again, I know we live in a day and age, and I like, I love the shooting threes. I know what the analytics say, man. I'm for shooting a bunch of threes. And if they're open, I'm good with that. I'm not the old curmudgeon. Get off my lawn, dude. But there's a part of me that loves physical. Take you to this rack. I'm not giving you layups back. I love that. I like to watch that, and I think it's sustainable, especially when you start getting deep into a season. I think it's a really. It's a really good thing to hang your hat on.
- [36:08]
A
I mean, that's. That's the. That's the formula for any team that wants to get maybe 45 wins is just to kick your ass and. And then you add on top of that with the Pistons and what they. The talent level that they have, that's going to get them to 50. I don't know if I say 60 yet, but that's definitely going to get you to 50, 55 wins if you have the talent level and you have that motivation and then you also have that type of style of play where players don't want to play in that style. And I will say this, though, Raja, I'm sure we can hack she next time he comes on the show, but I'm sure every time they saw the Suns, you guys were the. In their wheelhouse of teams of like, oh, we want to kick their ass. Like, we see them and we see their style of play and we want to fuck all that. We're going to. We're going to see how they play in the trenches. So I could definitely. And I feel like that identity is right here with this version of the Detroit Pistons. It's good because that's the identity of the city.
- [37:06]
C
Here's what's scary about them. They're. They've got the third best defense in the NBA right now, which is what you would expect and which is what we've been talking about, which is what Rogers is crediting them for. They're 15th in offensive efficiency. So kind of the outline of. Of like those great Pistons teams of the early to mid 2000s or mid to late 2000s, right? Elite defensively, not great offensively. But then look at those teams back then, right? Like, Chauncey was very good, but Chauncey was, you know, never in the MVP race. He wasn't like an elite offensive player. He was very, very good. He made the hall of Fame mostly because he. He took them to the championship, was MVP of that finals. But, you know, Rip Hamilton, very good player. Sheed, you know, Ben Wallace didn't score at all. Ben Wallace is one of the lowest point per game averages in the history of the hall of Fame. Like, this was not an offensively loaded team in it in any way back then. This one actually might be like, not like Cade's going to be in the MVP race. Kate is an elite offensive player. Jaden Ivey has. Has great potential to be. And like, Jalen Duran's already a better scorer than Ben Wallace was. Although I always say, like, if she'd wanted to be a 25 and 10 guy his whole career, he could have been. But this, this current Pistons team has a potential to be really great offensively. So they're not going to drop defensively. That, that third, you know that that top five, basically, like defensive efficiency rating is going to hold. But being middle of the pack offensively, I think they're only going up from there. They should be top 10 in both. And that leads to the, to, to this. Like we were talking about this being a two team raid race in the East, Cleveland and New York, and they've both gotten off to kind of like, you know, good, solid but not dominant starts. Like, is this actually a three team race? Are the pistons okay.
- [38:55]
D
100%.
- [38:55]
C
I agree. Are the Pistons potentially actually the best team in the east?
- [38:59]
D
100%.
- [39:01]
A
I'll say. I'll say we'll see, right? I'll say we'll see on that one.
- [39:04]
D
We said potentially. He said potentially.
- [39:06]
A
For sure. For sure. For sure. I mean, because I'm really looking at this. They have Cleveland at Cleveland January 4th, which is going to. And they have a. It's a Cleveland, New York back to back, which is going to be great. But they have, they've had good wins. They beat Houston, but they got their ass whooped against Cleveland. It was a second night to back to back early in the season. But they haven't really played a team that. I'm just like, okay, this is the arrival game. I'm looking for the arrival game right now. And I think we're going to see that later in the season. And I guess that that does add to your potentially argument, right?
- [39:40]
D
Yeah, potentially. Because, I mean, who have, I mean, I don't know who everyone's played, but who have the Knicks and the Cavs. Have they played Anybody that would give you that, hey, like, game for them.
- [39:48]
A
This year where they have a.
- [39:50]
D
We're just going off of what they were last year, right?
- [39:52]
A
I'm going on my argument of what they were last year in their institution right now.
- [39:57]
C
Yeah, I think the Nixon, the Knicks and Cavs, we already know who they are, right? They've had deep playoff runs the last couple of years. It's the Pistons who were waiting to see if they have enough of those.
- [40:05]
A
And the Cavs had had like weird losses, right? The Cavs have had weird losses. Like that Toronto loss last week was, was kind of weird. But you know, they still have the institution, right?
- [40:14]
D
This is weird. This is weird. But like I, look, I know New York won the matchup last year against the Pistons, but I felt like the Pistons were right there. Like, that was not, you know, that, that wasn't like, hey, clearly the, like it didn't stick out to me as like, you're One of these teams is, you know, fighting above their weight class. This was. This was a. That was a series. So I think they were closer already than we give them credit for being. But those teams can have the credit. I mean, Cleveland did some really cool stuff last year in New York. Obviously, you know, did beat them and went on to do what they did. But, like, I think Detroit was a little bit closer. I just want to add, just from a player's perspective, people ask me a lot about tough places to play, and I very rarely, if ever have said Detroit, and that is a miss. Because when they have the type of team that reflects their city, that building is as difficult to play in as any building in the NBA. When that thing is rocking and they've got the people that they think represent them and they're fully behind them, that is a fucking tough place to play. That is a really, really good fan base. And so I just felt like I needed to say that because those things become important for a team that is trying to take a step in the playoffs when your building is a real.
- [41:44]
A
Building, you know, also downtown now, man, like, when y' all played at. Back in the day at the Palace, y' all might not see. Y' all didn't even see Detroit. Y' all didn't even see. Y' all didn't even. I went to the airport, so just to boonies. Now, Detroit, you're locked in. You know, you're. You are. You see everything. You're right in the middle of it. That downtown's popping now. Like, it's. It's a different beast right now. All right, we want to. I mean, appropriately went big on the Pistons, but we do have another segment in Mailbag that we have to get to, so.
- [42:17]
B
Let'S get to. Michigan native Draymond Green had a. Had an incident with a fan. Played the Pelicans the other night. And the 124, 106 victory. Draymond and the fan, late in the second quarter, they had a discussion. The guy got in his face. He seemed like there was some. Some little friendly banter going on there. Draymond said after the game. It was a good joke at first, but you can't keep calling me a woman. I've got four kids and one on the way. Can't keep calling me a woman. He got quiet, though, so it was fine. Fellas, how y' all feel about these fan interactions that's been happening recently? And the guy getting in Draymond's face and face to face, I mean, the dude was Tall, he was, you know, I mean, put his hands up, tried to look innocent. Hower, I want to go to you on this one. How do you feel about these fan player interactions with dudes sitting on the sideline, you know, having that access to the floor? How do you feel about that?
- [43:06]
C
I'm glad. This one kind of just ended more or less peacefully. The dude got a red card or something. You saw, like, security walk over and, like, hand him a car. I think it actually looked. It was actually red. I think, like, he basically was like, got. Here's your warning. We're not kicking you out, but, like, chill, dude. And then report today from ESPN that the NBA has quietly conveyed a warning to Draymond to please chill as well. All's well that ends without anything happening, I guess. But for a moment there, when you're watching it in real time, it's like, oh. Ooh, all right. This is not gonna get weird, is it? This is not gonna get messed up. You don't like seeing it. Like, we had a whole rash of incidents whenever it was, like. It was like, right after Covid, when fans start come back to buildings and, like, popcorn being thrown at Russ and, like, a water bottle thrown at whatever. Like, was that. Was that Kyrie? There was all kinds of shit going on for a while there, and it kind of settled down again. Thankfully, fans, listen, man. Like, you buy the ticket, you go. You cheer, you boo, you yell a few things, you chant a few things. But there are boundaries, and I don't know that this guy crossed any boundaries. I did, like, the body language. Like, the body language put me off. Right. Like, what he said to Draymond was more supposed to be about a joke about, like, the bunch of rebounds and. No, no, you know, didn't score at all. Whatever.
- [44:30]
A
Like, compared him to Angel Reese.
- [44:32]
C
Ye.
- [44:33]
A
Yeah, basically, that Angel Reese doesn't look to score, just like Draymond doesn't look to score.
- [44:38]
C
Right. So. So Draymond took it as a slight because Draymond took it through a sexist prism of you're calling me a woman or compare me to a female player, which has its own issues, but we'll put that to the side for the moment. Draymond doesn't have to react to that. And. And fans are allowed to say a lot of things as long as you are not being abusive, as long as you're not using a lot of profanity and causing issues. Discomfort for. For the fans around you. Like, there are some. It's. It's a. It's A. It's a. It's a fine line there. I don't know the guy said anything untoward, but, like, when Draymond walks over. Draymond shouldn't have walked over. He probably should just let it be. But once it happens, the guy basically standing up, like, basically, like saying, like, it looked like he was saying, like, so, what's up? Like, I was kind of like, dude, don't. Don't tempt fate here. Like, don't. You're not the show. Just, like, you had your fun. Sit down and shut up and enjoy the game. But, yeah, glad to see it was. It was settled without anything else happening. I did look this up because I was curious. Like, we always think, oh, here we go, you know, Draymond and another incident here. It's actually been two years now since the Nurkic and Gobert incidents, which then led all the suspensions. Draymond's been pretty self contained since he gets his text, and he's usually among the leaders, but he's not. It's not excessive. He's gotten his flagrance, but nothing particularly excessive. Like, he has. He has kind of really, I think, reigned himself in pretty well by Draymond standards for the last couple of years, but that was the first time in a while where I was like, oh, God, here we go. Where is this gonna go? But, yeah, fans need to kind of, you know, check themselves occasionally. This. This. This guy seemed like he wanted a little bit too much of Draymond.
- [46:24]
A
Resident player. Do you have any? Do you have any? I mean, you're the. You're the player.
- [46:27]
D
I mean, I don't really have much to add to that. I think that was pretty well, you know, articulated by Howard there. I don't. I too agree that what was being said to Draymond didn't rise to the level of what I would have found offensive as a. As a player, you know, but this is life, and I try to tell my kids this too. You don't know what the person that you're engaging will find offensive. So if you're calling them out of your name, out of their name in any kind of way, you then must be prepared for whatever that person does after that.
- [47:10]
B
Right?
- [47:10]
D
So, like, I don't love fans. I've always said this. I love cheering. I love booing. Like, there's. And again, I don't think he crossed the line, but a lot of times they do. And that access sitting right there in the front row is just. It's tough when you catch the wrong. When you Catch the wrong person. Thankfully, you know, like, it didn't rise to that. I'm with you, Howard. You know, I'm not. Look, once you realize that you've triggered Draymond and you're the spectator there, sit your ass down. Sit down. Like, sit down. Don't. Don't stand there. Because we're one spit lit away, unintentionally away from him tearing your face off, right? Like, you guys are standing there face to face. You know, you're talking, he's talking, spit comes out of his mouth. It hit. Like, anything can happen when you guys are chest to checks. Go, go sit your ass down. That. I. But ultimately, I don't think Draymond, at that point, after what was said, if it was just comparing him to Angel Reese, I don't think that warrants a player going over there and engaging like that. Right. But, like, you know, hey, man, that's you. You call me out of my name, there's. You know, that comment's not going to do it to me, but you go a little further and keep calling me out of my name, like, I'm gonna have to talk to you.
- [48:34]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that also, we live in an age where, you know, people know instantaneously if they get a player to come over them, over to them. It's a moment. It's kind of like where we are, like, with Twitter or, like, with any comment section whatsoever right now, where, like, they're really just saying this to elicit a reaction. Like, I don't know the dude, but I do know there are a lot of. A lot of fans there that I've seen with my own eyes that will try to trigger a player, and as soon as they come up to him, they kind of get giddy and excited because they know the cameras are on them and stuff. And, like, they try to, like. Like, you can't even saw with the dude where as soon as Draymond came over, he was like, what? What? What? Just posturing and, like, just trying to make a moment out of it. And you start to see that more and more, because they know that that shit is about to get clipped, and they know that that is about to be, you know, talked about on a podcast like this or in a comment section, and they get their little 15 minutes of fame at the expense of a player that has to deal with this all the time. Right. And so I do. I like the comment that Draymond made afterwards. Not really, because it really was. It didn't really come off that well. And it didn't really feel thought out. Like, you don't like being called a woman because you have kids. Like, or are about to have more kids. That just didn't track. That just didn't make any sense. But I do get the sentiment of, like, yo, man, why are you, like, bothering me, bro? Like, what. This is where I work and you're continuing. Like, if. If. If we're in a situation for. Take basketball out of this. If I'm saying something that's clearly irritating you hella times and you don't like it, no matter how much it makes sense or doesn't make sense, and you keep saying it, and somebody's like, yo, stop saying that. And you keep saying it, no matter how stupid it is, there's going to be a problem. Like, that's just what it is. And you have to. To deal with that. But I think this one, it felt like the fan was trying to get a little bit of a moment. Even though the joke wasn't that bad. It felt that way. Like, if you say that once or twice, like, I get it. But like, if you say three, four, or five times, you're sitting where you're sitting, expect. You can expect somebody to come at you. Because in real life, that would happen, too, for so. Yeah, so I see all the sides on it. But I will ask. I. I'll use this opportunity to ask this question because we're here now. Do we. I'll start with Howard, because he's the chief warriors apologist on this podcast.
- [51:04]
C
Stop it.
- [51:05]
A
Are you. Are you. Are you all in on the Warriors? After this recent stress, they're looking pretty good. Or how are you feeling about the Golden State warriors right now?
- [51:15]
C
I'll answer that in a second. But before we leave this topic, Logan, I do want to come back to one other thing, because there is. I did. The Draymond versus Fan thing. Reminded me of something I wanted to ask Raja about. Speaking of occasional short triggers. But we'll come back. I'll come back to it. No, I don't want to derail us yet. I'll derail us at the end of it.
- [51:41]
D
So the warriors, off the rails, bro. Like, made no mistakes about that. My bad.
- [51:51]
C
Warriors beat the spurs twice last week. Like, we talk about signature wins, we're waiting for the Pistons to have maybe some signature wins, like the warriors beating the spurs twice in the span of days I thought was significant. Now, the spurs are not an established contender yet. I know, but great start to the season. Wemby's one of the best players in the league. He was still playing then. The wars of that 41 start, they. They get sluggish for a bit. They drop to six and six and they've won three in a row since. Like they're really up and down. Like I don't, I don't know that anything has changed my opinion of them other, other than I think they've weathered some storms already. They've had some good Kaminga, some bad Kaminga, now an injured Kaminga. They're still really, really frighteningly dependent on Stephen to be honest. Like as much as. As Jimmy Butler has added to them. This is still like. And then the drop off after Steph and Butler to the rest of that group scoring wise and who you can rely on night tonight I think is concerning. The front court's still concerning. I don't like. Nothing's. Nothing's changed. I. They've had a brutal schedule. As, as Kerm mentioned the other day on radio out there, he put it this way, was there's 17th game. The Miami game was their 17th game in 29 days in 13 cities. Kerr says it's been the toughest early schedule I've ever been part of in my entire life. They've had like a ton of back to backs. They've got the most road games in the league so far with 10 that they've weathered. This is actually a pretty good sign for them, but I don't know. They look good, but I'm not ready to proclaim them like, you know, the biggest threat to Oklahoma and Denver yet.
- [53:27]
A
Proud of you. Very proud of you.
- [53:30]
C
Stop it.
- [53:30]
A
Good job. I mean, I'm just, you know, I'm proud of you. I, I don't have any notes because that's what I would have said too, you know. Good job.
- [53:39]
C
I can't, I can't derail Raja. Logan's sending me private texts telling me not to go on this tangent. We'll save it for another day.
- [53:47]
A
Yeah, relax. We have two. We have one more segment that we have. Mailbag. What's going on, Cliff?
- [53:52]
D
I vote for off the rails, bro. I'm just telling you.
- [53:58]
B
Back to the Pelicans.
- [53:59]
D
They fired the coach, Willie Green. He had to get fired, bro. They suck. What the, what the are you supposed to say to that? Like, they suck. They fired Griff a year ago. They suck again. I love Willie Green. He sucked. He gotta get fired segment.
- [54:24]
B
Is that, Is that a segment, guys?
- [54:26]
A
I guess so.
- [54:30]
B
Like, I mean, can we say why he got fired?
- [54:33]
A
Like what we say why you got Power, right?
- [54:34]
D
What do you mean, why they got.
- [54:35]
A
By King sucked because.
- [54:37]
C
Because he. Because he works for a franchise and.
- [54:40]
A
They gave up on him, even though they should have fired him in the summertime if they were about this life. But then they clearly. And they. They said in a statement, like, if you read between the lines, they clearly didn't trust him. Which means why would they trust him now? Why. Why would they trust him now if they didn't trust him in the off season? This team is a show just all the way around. Dumars is. He's not helping his reputation, man. He. It was pretty. It was pretty bleak as an executive coming into this, aside from the Pistons run. But like, it is. It's pretty bleak. Yeah. He set this franchise back at least a decade, maybe two. I think that's it. I think this is a free willy Green man. You about to go on vacation. The money's guaranteed, bro. Going to go. Go somewhere. And you'll be back. You'll go. He'll be someone next year.
- [55:25]
C
Yeah, he'll be someone's top assistant somewhere.
- [55:27]
A
He'll get another job.
- [55:29]
C
More fun.
- [55:30]
A
Also. I would just say this, though. Everybody told him not to take this job when they, When. When he was up for this job and he still took it. Everybody told him, like, why would you do this? And I get, you know, bestie, take it.
- [55:44]
D
Yeah, you got to take it, bro. You don't get. You always get a choice of, like, it's a bigger conversation, but we don't always get to choose, like, how we get in. So sometimes you just got to get in.
- [55:54]
C
This is a cheap franchise, badly run franchise in a bad arena. 13 seasons under the Benson family. Tom Benson bought them in 2012. Now it's Gail Benson. Thirteen seasons under the Benson's. Four winning seasons out of 13. Four playoff appearances, one playoff series win. That was back in 2018. They've had five coaches in that time, counting James Borrego, who's now the coach, and three GMs, which. A new GM every three to four years is not great. Not the most excessive I've ever seen, but that's trending toward like, you know, Kings territory or Knicks in there in the mid-2000s territory.
- [56:32]
A
And it ain't like they have players. They had Anthony Davis, like in the. They. They tried to make it work with the Anthony Davis Cousins thing. That. And I feel for the fan base because I feel the fan base is very, you know, very online, but they're also like, very active. And I feel like if they had a Winner. They will cheer for a winner and they still cheer for winners. I mean, they still chill for the team at the current state that it's in with no Hope in sight.
- [56:57]
C
1 Kendrick Perkins disagrees with you, by the way. Former Pelican Kendrick Perkins, did you see this from the Road Tripping podcast?
- [57:05]
D
What'd he say?
- [57:06]
A
What Perk say?
- [57:07]
C
Here's the problem with New Orleans. Perk says great city. One of my favorite cities to live in. They're always going to be second to the New Orleans Saints. That city is all about the Saints. From the ownership down to Mickey Loomis. They don't give a damn about the Pelicans. It's so bad, meaning as a player that if you want to eat, you know how all NBA organizations have first class facilities with breakfast chefs, post practice meals. In New Orleans, you leave the Pelicans facility and you got to walk across the street to the Saints facility just to eat. And all your food is in boxes in the cafeteria. Now Perk, I don't know if he's out of line there because like, that was several years ago. Maybe that's improved since, but that was Perks.
- [57:39]
A
No, no, no, no. Tony Allen said the same thing.
- [57:43]
D
No, I think, I think that's true.
- [57:44]
C
But that's, that's a few years back too.
- [57:46]
D
No, they're. Yeah, yeah. Their facilities might be better. Like, because I haven't been around for longer than those guys haven't been around. But that's different than the fan base. Like they, they, they could be.
- [57:56]
A
That's what I'm saying.
- [57:57]
D
They are second. They are second fiddle to the same.
- [57:59]
C
Without, without question within their ownership.
- [58:02]
D
Yeah, most NBA teams, if you're in a major city, probably are.
- [58:07]
C
Right.
- [58:07]
A
Like, I mean, the Niners are like in the Bay Area, football's king.
- [58:11]
D
So like, I don't think that's unique to that fan base. But I was going to say to the point you made Logan, when we played there sneak. Terrible arena at the time.
- [58:21]
A
Terrible. Serena in the league, terrible.
- [58:24]
D
However, pretty good fan base. Like they were there. They were there. They were rowdy like they were. They were supportive. I felt. Now Perk played there, so he probably knows you know more than me.
- [58:34]
A
But his argument based on the quote is that we're second fiddle to the Saints, which is true. Right. They, they share a practice facility with the Saints. They have. While the Superdome was getting all of these renovations. Smoothie King still looks like it's 1997 and you know, like it's, it's more of a Higher. I feel like if they had. I don't know, man, that it's. I think it's too far gone for new ownership and a new building and all those things. But, like, I feel like if they invested them as a standalone, I think that they, you could, you could do something there. But, you know, it is what it is. Okay. That was longer than Raja anticipated. Let's go to mailbag.
- [59:11]
C
Yeah.
- [59:14]
A
All right.
- [59:14]
B
Let's get to the first mailbag. This is from Robert Dean. What up, Becky, Hope, Logan, Raja, you and the whole Real Ones team are doing well and loving this fun season. Looking at the current future west megastars, Lukashet, Edwards, Wemby and an aging Joker, do the Wolves and Edwards team have the worst future? I see a Trey or Laurie trade in the future for the Wolves, but could Edwards be the next megastar to go to the east and try to dominate, aka LeBron style? Rooting for an OKC title defense? Robert Dean Howard, that was for you.
- [59:43]
A
Thank God.
- [59:44]
C
So we have a. We have a Thunder fan crapping on all the other west stars, especially Anthony Everson. Or not crappy. I'm just saying, like, seemingly, seemingly rooting for their demise.
- [59:54]
A
That parade was like still 15 minutes long. Howard. Oh, that Thunder parade that this fan was probably a part.
- [60:02]
C
I'm not making any more jokes about the length of Oklahoma City's downtown. I already got. I already got caught on the carpet back in the spring for that. So of the current west megastars, he says Luca, Shay, Ant Edwards, Wemby and Joker to the Wolves and Edwards have the worst future. Well, like Shay and the Thunder have the best future by far because obviously young talent picks everything. Luca, I don't necessarily trust the Lakers to build around Luca. We've talked about that before. But we'll see. Wemby will be fine. Spurs are in great shape. So yeah, out of that group, I think by default, Anthony Edwards has perhaps the most concerning or hardest to figure future. But I'll say this. Like, I think the new owners, I think Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez are going to invest. I don't think we're have to worry about the Timberwolves being cheaping out the way that Glenn Taylor used to. They got a great front office with Tim Connolly. So no, like, I, I think Anthony Edwards and that team are going to be fine. It's probably of that group. It's between him and Luca, who you'd have the worst or the most concerns for about, quote unquote, worst future.
- [61:09]
A
I don't know though. Like, I I get your skepticism on what the Lakers can do to build around Luca, but I'm not as skeptical as you are.
- [61:17]
C
Because you're a Laker homer. Is that why?
- [61:20]
A
Yeah, exactly that part. But more so because Rob Pelinka, and we've talked about this before, that's the current front office, I would definitely have concern on over. Right. But since Ralinka is on the clock and they have new ownership, who just. We just talked about the Dodgers and what they have been doing. If they put that sauce and put more resources like we've been talking about with the Lakers around Luca, and they. If Pelinka isn't on his. He can see the door. Right. He doesn't have necessarily. Like, he does have genie in his corner, but that can only take you so far in this new regime with the Lakers. So that's all I'm saying. That's all.
- [61:56]
C
No, you know, I agree with you on that. You like, like that is. I do think Pelinka's on the clock quietly. That's not sourcing. That's not anything. Don't fucking aggregate it. But, like, logically, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. Like, logically, with new ownership coming in, even though Jeannie's supposed to be the governor for the next five years or whatever it's going to be. She is the one who hired Rob Pelinka. She's the one with the relationship with him. Mark Walter and his group do not necessarily. And I think it's fair to scrutinize Pelinka's track record during his time where he gets the stars because they want to come there, but the roster building around them has not consistently been very good. And I do wonder what the next 10, 12, 15 months hold on that front asshole. You, you, you.
- [62:47]
A
I started it.
- [62:48]
C
But you swung. You swung first.
- [62:52]
B
Get to the next one. This, this is from Shea Stobert. Question for the pod fellas. Long time listener, love all the work y' all do. Quick question. What do you guys feel might be the biggest issue that the NBA has to face during the back half of the 2020s? And more importantly, how do you feel the league will respond? Keep on keeping on, gentlemen. All the best. Shay.
- [63:10]
A
That's an interesting question. I think the biggest thing. Well, we talked about the first biggest thing, which is player health. I think that's the biggest thing that we need to figure out for all the strides we've made towards health. We're seeing more injuries at an alarming rate, but I Think the other thing is accessibility, man. And I think you're seeing that across all sports where I think players are, or not players, excuse me, fans, it's harder than ever to watch games. We can watch games because we know we, we cover the league and have expense accounts and all those things to see it. But pricing to get into games is, is more expensive than ever, especially in my market. I know when Howard's market, maybe in Rogers market, but it's harder than ever to watch. And, and you have a commissioner that's saying. I think that's another. That quote is going to haunt Adam Silver. What he said. It's like, oh, y' all can just watch the highlights. My biggest fear is that the NBA, where other leagues are being more accessible to the fans and showing most of their games on cable and where you can get games. The NBA is going to go to a place where it's the most digital and the most highlights driven and kind of push away from the consumer. And I think, you know, it's. That's an all sports problem, but particularly an NBA problem as well. So that's something I think is the biggest concern is just accessibility.
- [64:30]
C
Yeah, I, I think it's the injuries more than anything. We talked about it earlier and I don't know how they solve that one. Like, there are other things, right? There's, you know, there's the fact that, that finding games now is tougher than ever because they've now got multiple streaming services. Like, I don't know how many times this has happened to you guys already, but like I'm watching Peacock last night and then something's happening in one of the other games. I wanted to flip over. I can't just flip over now. I gotta, I gotta connect back to my DirecTV and then I gotta go find that game and then like, oh, now I gotta fire Peacock back up and that takes a second. Like, maybe my, maybe my TV is not that fast or something. But I don't know about you guys, there's a long delay every time I fire up streaming again and gotta go back to that app. So, like things like that length of games, sometimes all the replays, like there's a lot of little things, but like, if there's one thing in the next five years, I think it's player health also.
- [65:18]
A
I mean, elephant in the room gambling. You know, that's, that, that's. That's taken a big toll. Not just from like the headline perspective, but just what it does psychologically. We don't know. I mean, Roger talks About this all the time, about how the young kids are starting to get influenced and start. It's such an omnipresence, this next generation, how normalized it is, and I think it can get tricky. Anything you got thoughts, Roger? No, I'm gonna do one more question. Okay, one more question, and then, you know, we can. We can head out.
- [65:47]
B
All right, last question. This is from Hans Horn, the Surging Hornets. The Hornets Pieces Surge without the mellow little S must have caught your eyes. What do you think is the reason? How do you like Knipple and Culkin Brenner's future? How has Charles Lee gotten the most out of his players? Thank you for putting up such a wonderful content over the years. Much appreciated, Hans.
- [66:07]
C
Sounds like a Raja question.
- [66:09]
D
Yeah, definitely not a Raja question.
- [66:13]
C
Not watching a lot of Hornets.
- [66:14]
D
Definitely not a Raja question.
- [66:20]
C
I mean, listen, The Hornets are 4 and 10. I'm not going to get carried away.
- [66:26]
A
They lost three straight. What are we doing, bro? What are you saying?
- [66:29]
D
I like Knipple. I like Knipple.
- [66:31]
C
Canipple's been good.
- [66:32]
D
Yeah, I like Knipple, but Cock Runner's been good.
- [66:35]
C
And Brandon Miller can't stay healthy and Lamelo. Can't stay healthy and Lamelo, even though I praised him for coming out of the gates, playing more efficiently early on, then he got hurt, then he came back, and he's still been kind of all over the place.
- [66:46]
A
So I've been so. I was so mad at you for. I was so bad. You were like, this podcast anymore when we were just like, what are we doing right now?
- [66:53]
C
I thought you were gonna. I thought you were gonna disconnect that day. I thought you were just gonna, like, throw the laptop out.
- [66:58]
A
I'm so upset. What are we talking about? Why. Why do.
- [67:02]
D
Yeah, can we just cut that hole? Can we cut this thing and just.
- [67:05]
A
Why do we even do that? Who asked this question?
- [67:07]
B
I told Hans. Hans asked it.
- [67:10]
A
Shout out to you, bro, for listening. But, like, the man. Stop. You gotta earn the right to be talked about on this podcast, everybody. Why are you gonna talk about my team? Because they not relevant. Sorry.
- [67:26]
C
Thoughts. Raja.
- [67:27]
A
Raja had a rant. I wanted to have a rant, too. Raj has been sick and tired of this pod for the last 15 minutes, so we might want to get out here.
- [67:34]
D
My vote is my. I just told you what my vote is. Like, ask another question and just cut that.
- [67:40]
A
Oh, did you want. Oh, okay. Do you want to ask one more? Cliff, we got another question.
- [67:43]
D
Like, if you want to. If you want three do another one that would like.
- [67:49]
B
Okay. Yeah, this is. This is a real quick one right here. This just came in this morning, actually two hours ago. This is from Tommy Statler. Do y' all think the Clippers can't fire Tyloo because they're worried he snitched them out?
- [68:03]
D
That's a good question. I like that question.
- [68:05]
A
That's awesome.
- [68:06]
D
Yeah, he knows where all the bodies are buried, dog. Like, you gotta keep him close, bro. I don't think it's time. But all jokes aside.
- [68:17]
A
This is.
- [68:18]
D
It's not. You don't fire him. I don't think you fire him right now. He might get fired this year, but I think, I think, yeah, like, he very easily could get fired this year. I talked about it two pods ago, but, like, I don't think if I'm being fair to T. Lou, that should have happened off of, what are we, 12 games in right now?
- [68:37]
A
Yeah, it's not his fault, though. Like, this team sucks. Like, this team is terrible from all. Like, I watched him last night and you know, Cliff's team got the win, but their offense is essentially James Harden. Go do everything. And that's like, that works when he's 20 something, but he's like damn near pushing 40, bro. Like, what you expect him to be the best player? And then on top of that, like, they didn't got no picks. I don't know why they gave Kawhi all that money guaranteed after the games and the nine games that he played. I'm just so sick of the Clippers, man. I'm just so sick of them. I'm so sick and tired of watching them. I'm so sick and tired. Hold on, Howard, let me clear out. Clear out. Watch out. I'm so sick and tired of the narrative that they are the team and they are so forward thinking and they're. They're. We should watch out for the Clippers every year. I'm so sick and tired of it. I'm tired of it. Free T. Louis because when he. If and when he gets free, there's gonna be a lot of teams out there. Even though I don't think that, like they. They've invested in tlu, but free him. Like, there'd be a lot of teams out there that will be. Be dying to get Taylor services.
- [69:47]
C
Tyler's a top five coach in the NBA and if he did get fired, he'd get snapped up very quickly and. And Logan's Lakers should have hired him several years ago.
- [69:55]
A
All right, man, time to go. Me and Raj on Friday. I'm tired. I know Roger's tired. He fell asleep. I saw that. Don't think I didn't see that, Raja. I saw. I saw that. I saw the eyes go down. I've been there before. We'll see you guys on Friday, me and Raja. This is a great show. I'm tired. All the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino, or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem called 1-800- gambler or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.com in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.