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The Ringer NBA Show
Who Said What? NBA Media Day Quotes Edition. Plus, Potential Fred VanVleet Replacements.
00:55:26
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A
Foreign.
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Beck, senior writer at the Ringer and with me today, logging in from Miami, guy who gained 15 pounds of muscle this summer and really worked on his three point shot and says this is definitely his year. It's Raja Bell. What's up, Raja?
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A
What's up, H? Back. Good to be back. I mean, you got one of those, right? I definitely gained 15 pounds. I don't know, body composition wise, I would. I'd be reluctant to say it's muscle, but it's good to be back. Preseason for me, so like, bear with me, guys.
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B
Look, man, it's preseason. Media days are happening everywhere, which means like the fucking cliches are just flying a mile a minute. Everybody gained 15 pounds of muscle or lost 15 pounds of non muscle. Everybody's three point shot looks great. Everybody's awesome. That's a great time in the NBA. Great to see you again. It's been like, I think two months, three months. I don't know how long it's been. It's been a long time since. Since you or I were on the riverside video screens together. Logan Murdoch not here today, folks, but he will be back in a few more weeks, taking a little family time. He'll be back for the start of the season. And programming note number two, Raj and I will be weekly on Fridays for the next couple of weeks until we get to right around like opening week of the season and when Logan is back. So Raja, been a while. Summer highlights like football camps, basketball camps, recruiting trips, I don't know, island getaways. What, like, what have I missed?
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A
You know, a little all of that. Howard. Let's see, let's quick recap. My oldest boy, D1 Elite 11. Awesome. Yeah, it was really, really cool. Had aspired to do that since he was a first time he touched a football as a quarterback. So that was really cool to experience that with him.
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B
Awesome.
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A
Spent a lot of time on the road with my middle boy. It's his turn. He got to go to Curry camp and Pangos and all of that stuff. He got the character award at Curry camp, which was a really cool moment because Steph awarded it to him and was like, that's really weird. I'm giving one of my teammates sons. It was pretty weird moment. It was pretty cool to see him on the court with Steph and that was cool. Other than that, we did get to an island. We got away and hung out a little bit and it's just been a whirlwind, man. You know, you probably experienced this as your daughter got older and Time was shrinking. It also then felt like it was going even faster.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so that's what we're, that's what we're in right now.
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B
Yeah. No, we just dropped my daughter back off at college for, to start her sophomore year a few weeks ago and it's like, oh, my God. God. Like, I mean, it was shocking a year ago and it's still like, it's a little less so each time you do the drop off, but it's still it, it's. It's the blur and it's the emotions and it's like, like my daughter's like, like, like, dad, you can't, you can't cry when you drop me off now. Like, you've already done this a couple times. Like, I'm going to get emotional every time. Just fucking get used to it, all right?
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A
Every single time. Yeah.
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You know, that's, that's just what it is at this point. So the curry thing must have been not just surreal, but like, is your, is your son like a huge step fan too? Like, was, was there any, like, I don't know, starstruckness there going on at all? And like, character award is actually a pretty cool thing too because we think of Steph is like not just one of the greatest of all time, but one of the all time good guys. So that's, that's nice.
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A
No, it was totally. Yeah, he's definitely a huge step fan. He was a really little guy when I, when I was out there, you know, with Golden State for that amount of time. It was a really small camp, which was really cool. So it was like 15 boys, 15 girls. My son Ty was, was probably one of the four youngest ones there. They're from all the different circuits. So, like you have EYBL kids, Adidas Gauntlet. Like, you know, it's just a selection of kids from any particular shoe circuit. But it was really cool because Steph is so hands on at that camp. I mean, he is instructing in every drill. He's making his way around from court to court, station to station, really working. So, you know, it was cool for my son and I'm sure every other kid there that they got real time with Steph, like, you know, my son's shooting drills and Steph's trainer is putting him through workouts and Steph's rebounding for him or high five in him and then he's hopping in the games with them. So, you know, I thought it was just an awesome experience for every kid that was there. Mine especially, because you know, he does know that I have a little background with Steph and it was cool for all of us, I think a little bit. But generally speaking, just a great experience for them.
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B
Awesome. Love it, man. So two, two months since we last did this thing on the real ones. The good news is like nothing has happened. Like two, like two months have gone by. Like Dennis Schroeder won a Eurobasket championship. Jonathan Kuminga still is unsigned. Speaking of stuff like who knows that could happen while we're, while we're recording today. For all I know. I'll keep an eye on, on the the iPhone alerts here. But like Cam Thomas took the qualifier from the Nets and Josh giddy like nothing. Nothing is ha. There was a Patrick Beverly Trey Young thing.
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A
Like yeah, like saw that.
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B
Yeah. I have not bothered to watch or listen to all. Like I just, I can't bring myself to care. All due respect, like Trey Young, it.
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A
Actually, it actually kept me going for a few days, if I'm being honest. Like it was, I mean it was so little. It was actually, it was something I was like, oh, look at this.
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That's all we got. That's. That's the NBA off season.
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On Fox one.
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You can stream your favorite news, sports and entertainment live all in one app. It's raw in unfiltered. This is the best thing ever.
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Watch breaking news as it breaks. Breaking tonight, we're following two major stories.
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And catch history in the making debate drama Touchdown. It's all baby. Fox 1. We live for live streaming now. This episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. All new season of Futurama is back. Blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Planet Express crew is back to find gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or stream it on Hulu. Until up until a few days ago, we do have a few news items I thought we'd hit and then we're gonna play a little game with some media day quotes here. But quick news news hits Fred Van Vliet. Like that is significant. Not to make light of that at all. That is the unfortunately the most significant thing that's happened here. I mean Tyler heroes got an injury. It's going to keep him out for a bit. A couple other guys, but the rockets were supposed to be and may still be a contender in the west people, you know, the debate was simply who's the bigger challenger to the Thunder, the Rockets or the Nuggets? Both had fantastic off seasons and now here we are like, you know, Fred Van Vliet, not the best Rockets player by sheer talent, but maybe the most important. And there's no ready made replacement there at the position. It just absolutely sucks Van Vliet out with the acl. You expect that's going to be the whole season. I don't know. What do you make of this, Raja? Like Zach Lowe and, and Bill covered this the other day. Was it on Bill's pod? I think it was on Bill's pod. The idea of like, who they could go out and get, which I'll, I'll get into that in a second. But like your initial reaction, is this a moment where you're already all in because you got Kevin Durant? Do you need to now go further all in to go get a VanVleet replacement? Do you wait it out because you've got a young core? Is this. Are you on Amen Thompson's timeline and Senguns, or are you on KD's? Like, I just think it brings up some real operational issues.
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A
Yeah, no, that's, it's fascinating. Right? First, first of all, like devastating for them, for him, for that team. I thought, I thought they were positioned obviously, really, really well with that combination of like really good young players and talent and legs. And then, you know, you bring in a piece like kd. But to your point, like, the most important thing outside of, outside of maybe like, you know, the Kevin Durant of it all is someone that can run it. Like, you need a conductor, you need someone that can really put all those, you know, instruments kind of, you know, into this tune that, that, that puts out this beautiful music and, and that's going to hurt them. So I, to, to the question of do you go out? Like, my immediate would be like, yes, I think that while you are trying to balance being on the younger players timeline, Kevin Durant is. His window is, is, is open only for set amount of time. And I think you have to maximize that. Now, I'm not willing to trade, I'm not looking for the type of pieces that require me to trade one of those nice young pieces. Do you know what I mean? Like, so maybe I'm going to go for, you know, if, if Fred Van Vliet is A, is a B. You know, maybe I'll take a C or something like that in terms of a grading for pg. But I Need someone with real experience. Could be long in the tooth maybe. And that's why I get him at a discount, I don't know. But I need someone who can run a show. Howard.
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B
Yeah, and I think that's the difficulty because obviously not only are we here in late September, but you know, you, you traded two pretty good pieces in Jalen Green and Dylan brooks to get KD. So that's a two for one. So that was, you know, two starters or high rotation guys out to bring one 37 year old, soon to be 37. Happy early birthday to Kevin Durant, by the way. Turns 37 on Monday, but you don't have a lot of other available pieces left. Now they have a shit ton of draft picks, including still some from Brooklyn, some from Phoenix. Like they've got valuable stuff, Raja, and they've got contracts. When Bill and Zach were kicking us around on Bill's pod the other day, they were, you know, there was flirting with the. Do you go really cold blooded here and like trade Fred Van Vliet's contract? Because it's a big number and you need to send out a big number if you're going to get somebody who's more established. Bill's list of like potential replacements, you know, stand ins were on the more modest side, right? It was like IO Dasunmu, Jose Alvarado, Scotty Pittman Jr. Peyton Pritchard. Interesting one, TJ McConnell, I think that was his list. Zach went for more of like the bigger names. He was like, what about Austin Reeves? Not saying that the Lakers want to deal, you know, trade Austin Reeves, but hey, what about an Austin Reeves? Or I think he mentioned Jaden Ivey, Derrick White, if you were really going all in. Colin Sexton was an intriguing one that they both talked about because I think he's on an expiring and you know, market value isn't very high, so maybe you can get him for very little. But I'm with you. Like you need someone. And I think if this had happened two, three months ago, maybe they would have been the ones to sign Malcolm Brogdon to a training camp contract. He ends up with the Knicks where I assume he's going to stick. I don't know where else you go, like would, you know, could they have made the deal for Lonzo Ball, who the Cavs picked up for. Not much. He'll be great like you needed. And I don't know if Lonzo Ball can handle starter minutes at this stage after everything he's gone through physically, but you need somebody as you said, you need that orchestrator. You need the guy who's going to calm everybody down and get guys in the right positions, who's a natural leader out there. It's not just filling the spot. There's a role there on that team that was really important in terms of the presence that Fred Van Vliet brought. So I don't know. I don't know where they go here. The guy I would love to see plugged in, because everywhere he goes, they win a championship, and he's exactly what they need, but I don't think it's possible would be Drew Holiday. And I don't know how much Drew's got left, and he's making north of 30, but he's with Portland. Like, aside from him tutoring your young guys and playing out the string, how. How much does the. Does Portland really need Drew Holiday? Like, they already, you know, rerouted him once before, so.
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A
How much? How much? Yeah, I mean, that. That'd be interesting when you say, you know, the Rockets have all those picks, like, how enticing would that be for a team like Point. Drew Holiday is the perfect kind of name for that. Because, like, I want to go back because you said there was a real role to play. This isn't someone that's just filling minutes. And while, yeah, we touched on the, like, the physical role, which is like, you know, hey, man, we're coming down and KD's hit a few and, you know, it's my job to get offense, you know, let's get him another one. Or. Or, you know, we. We haven't got a touch over here for Sengun. Let's make sure I run something. Like, there's that. There's the. That of it, but there's also just this huge leadership void, if you will.
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Yeah.
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You know, Van Vliet meant a lot to them on the court in terms of that. And then, you know, Dylan Brooks, for whatever he is or isn't, as a. As a physical player or an antagonist or what have you, like, he is a leadership type of guy. Like, he's a culture type of guy, and you lost that, too. And so, like, you very quickly are down two real leaders. And if we're being honest, as great. As great as Katie is, and we all love him, and we've talked about this on the pod, like, that's not usually what you think he's coming in to do.
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Right.
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Like to. To assume that part of it. And so, yeah, I think there's a real need for a name like that I like some of those names better than others. I love Drew. I mean, Drew's like pie in the sky for me.
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B
It's probably pie in the sky. And, like, I'm looking up his contract as we're speaking, and he's making, like, 32 or whatever and going up from there. And when you look at the Rockets and, like, movable contracts, to try to get to that number, like, it's. It's almost impossible to. Like, you'd have to put Fred Van Vliet in the deal at his $25 million salary just to get even close. Unless you're combining, like, Stephen Adams and, like, you know, what.
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What's. What's Fred Van Vliet? Howard? What's Fred Van Vliet? He's. How many years are that?
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It's 25 this year, according to spot track, and a player option, I believe, for the following season. And that's it. Also, at 25.
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I know it's. I know it's tacky. I know how this is going to sound. I know. I know how that looks. But, like, time doesn't stop moving. You know what I mean? Like, and if you have a window of time, like two years, let's say, with Kevin Durant in the type of shape and form as a player, that you could potentially do something mean while it would suck and it might look tacky to fans, but, like, you got. You have to do something there.
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B
Yeah. And I think Drew is an Eme Udoka kind of player. Right. Like. Like, not even a question. And obviously, you know, they've had some time together before, too, so I. I just think that I. There aren't that many options. Right. Like, I. I was. I was trying to think of, like, other, like, older vets, guys who would have that kind of presence. And so, like, you know, CJ McCollum got, you know, traded in that. In that Jordan. That Jordan pool deal to Washington. Again, Washington doesn't need CJ McCollum. I don't know if CJ's the exact right fit either. Doesn't bring, you know, kind of the defensive side that. That Drew would. But I don't know is somebody in that vein. It's just that those guys have big numbers. And it's not that it's impossible to. To get to the number without Van Vliet's contract. It's just that it's pretty likely. And then you're also having to decide, like, is Reed shepherd part of one of these deals? Like, you could combine, like, just for the Sake of argument, like Steven Adams, Reed shepherd, and like, one other guy could, could probably get you to, like, the Drew Holiday number. But, like, are, is that too much? Are you giving him too much depth? And, and, and probably yes. But the flip side of this, Raj, and the reason I bring it up and why I think it's so Fascinating, Durant is 37 on Monday. Again, he's 37 years old. Dude is still amazing. But when you made the trade for him, it was, it was championship or bust immediately. And I don't know what the window is. A year, two, three, maybe, maybe, maybe. You probably got to think in the more than one to two. And if you don't have, you know, the, the means to get a Fred Van Vliet replacement and somebody who can do some of the things he did, I don't know what this season becomes. The west is really tough. They still might be a top three team for all I know. But Minnesota's right there and the Lakers are right there. The Clippers, I'm going to say it, are right there. There are some really good teams in the West. It is not going to be easy just based on. And plus, Durant's going to miss some time. We know he will. And you also don't want to burn him out in the regular season when you're trying to make a deep postseason run. So I just think it's really tough. There's a great segue here to the item that I had listed next. And producer Cliff was like, like trying to steal my thunder on this and get ahead of himself. But Cliff just did the what about Russ in the chat. We're getting to Russ. Cliff.
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A
Yeah, you know, see, I was.
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B
Slow down.
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A
I'm fully prepared, Abe. I'm just letting you know all the weapons are in my bag right underneath the desk.
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B
Plus, you're like, you're fresh, right? You've had two months just to, like, you know, you know, get your conditioning going, everything else. That's right.
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A
My wind is up.
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B
That's right, your wind is your windows up. You're ready to go full rust stand again. It's been a few months since had to defend his honor. He's still out there unsigned. We'll get to the unsigned part in a second, but how about. Because I have thoughts, as you might imagine. Is. Is he a rocket spit?
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A
No, he's not a rocket's fit. I, I listen, I love, I love Russ. Everyone knows I love Russ.
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Everybody listening to this podcast ever knows.
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You not a rocket spit. All right, Russ. I'M sorry. No, I think. I think two. Combustible. A locker room, if that makes sense. Now, maybe combustible is the wrong word. Too much. There's. It's too vulnerable a locker room. There's too much of a vacuum there in leadership for a personality like Russ to step in and. And who knows what happens there? So I don't think you could absorb Russ necessarily with that team, if that makes sense. Like, I just want to keep it a buck.
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B
I also think that given Emu Udoka's profile and what he has forged this team into with a defensive personality, a defensive edge, Russ doesn't fit that. He definitely doesn't want guys stalling out with the ball as Jalen Green did, and Russ is not a good fit for that. Not to mention age. Not to mention. Oh, the biggest thing. Russ and KD together. Producer Cliff. Are you kidding me? I just don't see a big, happy reunion between those two anytime soon. Or, like, when they're both retired, we'll get one of those fun, like, you know, NBA TV specials or a 30 for 30 doc or who knows what? Like, they'll. They'll. Maybe they'll yuck it up someday sitting on a porch with some lemonade, but I don't see that happening on a. On a Rockets practice court.
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Yeah, it's not happening on the team flight for Houston this year.
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B
Yeah.
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A
No, I. I owe you guys an apology. I mean, I don't know if you're. Are you done with that yet?
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B
Yeah, yeah, go. I'm always up for an apology. So.
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A
I mean, you and Logan is an apology. I don't know if. Did we bet something? We might have bet when. If you remember, when Russ declined the option, I brought my behind on this pod and was like, he will definitely be on a roster. There's no way he declines that option without knowing.
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B
Yes.
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That there's a market for him, I think is exactly what I said.
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B
Yeah.
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And I would. I was wrong. I was wrong. So I apologize.
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A fair assumption. We don't have to apologize for predictions or statements on this podcast. We all. We're all just, you know, we're just all letting it fly.
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A
No, but I was, like, adamant, though. I was like, yeah, you remember?
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B
I do. Well, when it comes to rush, when are you not adamant, Raja? I mean, that's just. That's just kind of just built in every year for the last few. Because he's been on, like, whatever. It's been like five or six teams in the last six years. Not to mention waved By Utah, twice after trades. Um, sorry. That was gratuitous. Every time you wonder. All right, well, the Lakers had him and they decided it was time to move on. The Clippers had him. Time to move on. And he makes. There are always some memorable moments, and then there's always some regrettable ones. And here it is. The Nuggets have moved on, and I just don't know how many teams are left. The problem here is, like, there's some really. There are some teams that could really use Russ, and I mean this earnestly. There are young teams, especially where his work ethic, his passion, his drive, all that stuff that he. All the ferocity, all the things that everybody loves about Russ could be a real asset to maybe, I don't know, Charlotte Hornets or somebody where they're still in their formative years. But Russ is going to want to join, and from everything I've heard around the league, he wants to be on a contender. The problem is the contenders either don't need him or can't afford the downsides of Russ. And so that doesn't leave you with many options. And apparently on September, as of September 25th, as we're recording here, it's lift him with zero options. And I don't know, barring another big injury somewhere, I don't know if that's going to change. So my. My guess is, you know, a month from now, a little less than that when the season's opening, he's probably not on a roster. It doesn't mean it's over, but I don't think it looks great right now. Ben Simmons is the other one Michael Pin and I discussed last week, but different, right? Because, like, Simmons hasn't even really made an impact positively on. On a team in a while. Russ at least has had some moments where you see, like, okay, there's still some. Some value here.
- [21:10]
A
Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. He. He's. You know, this happens. We covered it. When, you know, it's not the exact same situation as Mello. When Melo was, you know, kind of aging a bit, and you got to have a little bit. A little bit of self awareness as. As. As to who you are, like, whether the ball is still yours. Melo had to figure out, like, hey, I'm going to. You know, Melo had the advantage of being able to turn himself into a spot jump shooter a little bit. Like, you know, Russ hasn't really figured that part of it out yet, which. Which made it in some regards, even easier for Melo. Even Though he struggled with it. But what you also. And a lot of dudes, and I found this out the hard way, and a lot of guys who hang around a long time, you know, what you were as a personality is worth it. While you're doing a set amount of good things that contribute toward winning. When that, when that equation changes and you don't recalibrate who you are and how you're acting and what comes along with you, you know, in a locker room or in terms of a voice, you know, it doesn't even have to be a negative voice. You just have to understand your place in the hierarchy in some of these places. And when you're, you know, 10, 11, 12, even if it's a voice, like, it's, it's. It's not always your place to be that voice.
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B
Right?
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A
And you got to read that room in a way that I don't think Russ has read very well because I, you know, there are things on the court that don't fit every situation. But I agree with you. There are situations where Russ, you know, could be okay. I just don't think he's read the room well in terms of like, hey, man, you know, I, I don't command the same level of, like, attention or I don't have the same voice that people are going to be listening to as I did when I was the guy. And that's hard for people to come to grips with.
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B
And everything that I heard out of Denver from multiple people starting last season and then again over the summers, I was checking in about where Russ might land is. Any. What's the market, all this stuff. It's, it's the lack of self awareness on both things. It's. It's the fact that he's a really big voice and personality, but is. Doesn't have, you know, the, the, the All Star caliber game to go with it anymore. So you're diminished a little there, but also still carrying himself on the court like the guy he was when he was 25. And no, the, like the world and the, the, the offense does not, you know, revolve around you anymore. And so that's one part of it that's really tough. I was curious about this and then we'll move on from, from this particular topic. But like, like, know different career arc for you, Raja. But like, everybody comes to that moment at some point where it's like either your body's breaking down or you've lost a half a step or whatever it may be and you're having to like, Come to grips with. Is it over yet? Can I get another year? Can I just tack on one more? How hard is that? What do you think Russ is going through mentally? Like, he's a different player again, much different resume. But you come to the same, you know, at the end. You guys are all, even at that point, right? You're all somebody who, who had a really gratifying career and you'd really like it to continue if possible. But I imagine emotionally this is incredibly tough.
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A
Oh, this is, this is hard. This is heartbreaking because, you know, like, you've worked and just trusted and believed that the work you put into it is going to produce the outcome that you're used to seeing. That doesn't have to be like all star level, but like, I'm an NBA player, I'm a pro because I've worked my tail off Since I was 11 years old in pursuit of this. And this is what we do and this is the outcome we get. And I'm going to be back on that jet and I'm going to be in that locker room and things are going to be the way, the way they're supposed to be until they're not. Now that hurts. That stings. That's embarrassing. Like, there's a lot that goes on with that. You're answering a lot of questions. At least I was about like, how come you're not on a roster? Hey man, what's going on? Like, and you know, that happens for a while. And then what happened with me, Howard, if I'm being honest, was the more time I spent around my kids in, in that time of year that I didn't normally get to be around them. I wasn't the drop off guy at school when they were, when they were little. I, I was a practice. My wife did that. Like, I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't the guy that got up, you know, and, and was able to pick him up and take him to practice. Like, we were usually on a plane, you know, going somewhere else. Those were calls I got from my wife saying, hey, you should see them at, you know, but now I was doing it and, you know, I, I got one call and my route was a little different. And I'll get into this too. Like, it was from San Antonio where I could have potentially. I'm like, I don't want to do that shit. Like, I'm not, I'm not willing to do that now. The way I was going to have to go about it because of the way I came into the league was a route I was not interested in going down anymore. Like, I didn't want to go through the whole, hey, just come to training camp. Hey, man, like, we'll let you. Like, I was done with that shit. I had done that coming in five times, and I didn't want to do it anymore. Russ, because he didn't have to come in like that might not rub him the wrong way if those opportunities exist. I don't know how much time he's got to spend with his family and if that's enough for him. But my priorities had completely shifted. And I talk about that. I noticed that the year before in Utah, where I was like, I'd rather be at home.
- [26:23]
B
So that helps, right? That helps, right?
- [26:25]
A
It certainly helps.
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B
You've got something else to look forward to and in fact, a huge benefit by deciding it's time to walk away.
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A
Given all of that, though, Howard, like, if, If. If I contractually had another year, I probably. I would have went. Like, if it wasn't a hassle, I would have went and played another year. Like, you know, but, like, you know, sometimes it's, It's. It forces you to realize, like, hey, man, what else is going on in my world and is it more important? Maybe. Maybe I've been overlooking that for a while.
- [26:55]
B
Well, we know this much. There's no emotional struggle for you when it comes to being the drop off guy now in the pickup guy, because you have a hard out today on the podcast to go pick up your kid from school. So we clearly do not. We're not even at the level of the Utah Jazz on the real one spot. At this point. You're just like, fuck it, man, I'm out. I got to go get my kids.
- [27:13]
A
You guys got to get them. Oh, I got. I got like. I got like three months left to be able to pick him up from school with his brothers, and I'm going to everyone I could get to.
- [27:22]
B
Hell yes. Amen. All right, so before we jump into some media day stuff, some. Some quotes that I pulled, I actually did want to throw one other quick news item at you, which is that, listen, I know listeners like, we've all beaten the Kawhi Clipper story to death. But I just figured, like, out of just curiosity, Raja, did anybody ever offer you, like, free 40 million or so to plant some trees, or not even actually plant the trees and not show up for stuff or do anything, which the serious version of is simply this. Just. You were in the league for decade plus. There's always rumblings there's always rumors, there's always speculation. There's always somebody taking a little less and people wondering, I don't know anything from your day and did the Kawhi thing surprise you in any way or do you view this the way a lot of people around the league do, which is like, yeah, of course this is happening. Not at that scale, but yeah, of course, of course there's something like this.
- [28:14]
A
Yeah. If I'm being honest with you, Howard, I think that I was always under the assumption that if they wanted to, they could figure out a way to, you know, to the degree that and, and the amounts that were, that were, that were reported, I, I could have never imagined to that. I always thought this was like, you know, you got buddy, family member, like give him a job. You know, there's stuff like that going on. But like not, not, not to the, not to the. To the tune of millions and millions and millions. I never saw anything like that when I played or worked, but I assumed it happened. There were rumblings pre. Whatever collective bargaining agreement like really started, like crossing those T's and.in the eyes of people getting like, you know, car dealerships and things like that. Like that was back in the day though.
- [29:04]
B
Yeah, yeah, there was always some stuff like that, but none of it was ever proven or came to light. It was always a suspicion and whispers which, you know, I don't know what to make of. Usually it's a cynical league. It's a cynical world. Yeah. But that one, you know, we will come back to it, unfortunately, probably many times in the, in the months to come. So media days, as I mentioned, started up earlier this week. Especially the teams that are going overseas, they all got to start early. But we're, we're gradually making our way through. It's a great time of year for stupid cliches. My buddy who goes by Stat center on blue sky, I think he's still on the other site too, but he posted a bunch of them like as in like, you know, media day cliche. Bingo. Basically I added a few of my own. So we've got the gained or lost 15 pounds gained. It's always muscle lost, always fat. Put up 10,000 shots a day or whatever stupid number worked on. My three coaches saying we're going to run more this year, play up tempo. Coach is saying, oh, our identity, our identity is going to be defense this year. Everybody who changed teams loves their new city, their new teammates, their new coach. That's the best fan bases in the world. Whatever role coach wants Me to play. I'm good with it. You know, there's that one if you're rehabbing from injury. I'm. I'm ahead of schedule. I'm ahead of schedule. I'm looking good. I'm feeling good. What was your favorite? How many of those did you check off? Did you. Did you get, like, fucking media day cliche bingo over the course of your career?
- [30:29]
A
Oh, dude, I was. Yeah. I mean, I checked most of those boxes. Whatever. I mean, I. I have them all down. Whatever role. Yeah, for sure.
- [30:38]
B
How many of them were?
- [30:42]
A
Well, they were. They're all. They were all said, I think, with good intent, like, whether they worked out that way or not.
- [30:51]
B
All right.
- [30:53]
A
But, like, yeah, towards the end of my career, it became about, like, the funniest one was, like, one year when I came to Utah. The first year I was. Came to Utah, back to Utah, you know, I had done a lot of work on my body, and I felt really good. Like, and I.
- [31:04]
B
Best I've ever felt. There's another one. Yes.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah. Best I ever felt. Right. I felt really good. Like, like, but. And I was like. I usually played at, like, 220728, like, right. Just under 210, but I was probably like 2:13, like, but I felt good. Like, I was physical. And that first year was just not very good. And Kevin. Kevin o', Connor, not that the second year was much better, but Kevin o' Connor was like, hey, whatever you did in our exit interview, whatever you did last summer clearly didn't work. So then I went back to the drawing board and I did CrossFit, and I got really, really, like, lean. So I came in the next year probably at like 20 4, but, like. Or maybe 205, but, like, really lean. I changed my body comp and stuff like that.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah.
- [31:49]
A
And that. I mean, I probably played slightly better for the amount of games I played, but probably not much better. But it was. At the end of it, you're throwing anything you can at the wall. Just see what sticks.
- [31:57]
B
Just a clarification for the younger listeners. That would be Kevin o', Connor, former GM of the Jazz, not Kevin o', Connor, former ringer, colleague of ours. So. All right, so let's go there. We're going to play a little game here. I'm going to read a quote. You try to guess who it is. Oh, and on the theme, here's the quote. I haven't felt like this since college. I could just walk in a gym and I feel good.
- [32:21]
A
Zion Williams.
- [32:22]
B
Yes. Ding, ding, ding. Ding. Nicely done.
- [32:25]
A
He looks felt. I mean, he.
- [32:27]
B
He does. Yeah, he does, yeah. Like, listen, it all looks great. Sounds great. With Zion, he looks amazing. I don't doubt the optimism. I don't doubt that he probably is the best he's felt since college, except that, sadly, we have heard that exact line from Zion, I think, pretty much every year for the last few. Including in 2022, when I went down to Fort Lauderdale for a day and spent time with Zion and his whole crew, his trainer, his dad or stepfather. Like, he had. He had just come back from that really rough season, coming back in great shape, and so it's. It's hard. There is a little bit of a, you know, won't get fooled again feeling here, I think, for probably, certainly for Pelicans fans and for that organization, and I think for all of us where it's like, man, I hope. I hope this is it. I hope this is the best he's felt and the best he looks and the best shape he's been in, and it'll continue because the whole trajectory of the Pelicans is different if that's the case. But, yeah, it's really hard not to be jaded about it when it's a player who every year, you know, either he doesn't stay in shape, comes in in great shape, doesn't stay in shape, or gets hurt again. And, you know, some of that's in your control and some's not. I, I think the Pelicans feel like that's probably a mixed bag in terms of how Z. How much of that is Zion's responsibility.
- [33:41]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I, I, I really. It would be really interesting to be kind of a fly on the wall there, just to see, you know, because there. What, There are two components of that. Well, there are more than two components, but there are two major components. It's your strength and condition and your training staff. Right. It's your. It's your sports medicine team. And then it's how dedicated he is to participating in what they're asking him to do if it's the right stuff that, that they're presenting him with. And then, you know, the other part of that would be how dedicated he is to the nutritional part of it, the sleep part of it, the, you know, the. The rest and recovery part of it. Right. And so, you know, those things have to. They have to intersect, like, just perfectly for you to be LeBron James, let's say, to have that type of career, you know, but, like, some people figure it out early and they're great with it. They got great examples and role models, like great vets. Some people don't get it for a while. Some people never get it. It'll be interesting to see if Zion has it or can ever get to the point where he has that preseason, the one that we're jaded about, and then he figures out how to lock in and carry that through. Through a season because, you know, like, I think we don't like to see that.
- [34:46]
B
Willie Green, his coach, said, quote, when he's available, he's one of the best players in the NBA. And nobody can argue with that. But his. The second part of that quote was, was availability is going to be huge for him. Which, like, that's the whole. That. That's his career in a nutshell right now, when available, one of the best in the NBA. Is he going to be available how often? Tough. I think, you know, the, the interesting thing with the Pelicans, like, I think everybody's got them as a bottom three, bottom four team in the west, and there's. There's like some serious talent on the roster, but I don't know how these pieces fit. And even if you get a full season from Zion, whatever a full season means in 2025 terms, Jordan Poole, I guess, is going to be their opening night point guard. And then Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Zion, Missy, I guess maybe at center, they brought into Kavon Looney. They drafted Derek Queen, Jose Alvarado still around. Dejante Murray still recovering somewhere in the wings. Like, can they get him back at some point. There's another guy who, if healthy, would be a nice target for the Rockets, but not soon.
- [35:49]
A
Good name.
- [35:49]
B
Probably not soon enough. So. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I don't think any of us are expecting miracles from the Pelicans, even if Zion, you know, truly does have like, a career year where he stays healthy.
- [36:01]
A
So, yeah, honestly, I think their year, like, if you're behind closed doors in those executive offices, like, and you're talking about the year and what, what is a win for us this year? I don't think it has much to do with playoffs win totals and all. I think it has to do with, like, can he stay healthy?
- [36:17]
B
Yeah.
- [36:17]
A
And then let's. Let's take a look at these pieces. Like, let's figure out what we have.
- [36:21]
B
Yeah. All right. Next. Quote, quote I hope that we win more games than we won last year, but the truth is it's not going to be measured in Wins and losses this year, but it is going to be measured in success. This is a tough one. Not. Here's the question. Usually you're on the right track. Not a player.
- [36:38]
A
Not a player. Dang it. Not Pat Riley, coach in Utah.
- [36:44]
B
No.
- [36:45]
A
Danny A.
- [36:46]
B
It's an owner.
- [36:47]
A
Oh, Matt Ishbia.
- [36:49]
B
You're. You're. You're a Phoenix Suns owner. Matt Ishbia.
- [36:53]
A
I should have known that. Why?
- [36:54]
B
What's wrong? Where? Well, I mean, the very fact that he's saying something that is kind of like muddled and strange and full of spin means it has to be. I mean, there are other owners who might do that too, but Ishpia speaks more than most of them, which I appreciate, by the way. Which. Which reminds me, your pal Steve Nash, hired as a senior advisor to. To Met Ishbia. That can only be a good thing for a franchise that's had a lot of tumult and a lot of front office turnover and just change. And Roger, when's like, can Nash bring you in as like, the assistant to the senior advisor? Like, when's that happening?
- [37:28]
A
Yeah, I mean, well, I, you know, he had told me that he was thinking about taking a job. I heard that he took the job through you guys in the chat last night. I didn't even see that. So. So as I'm getting in the car to buckle up, I will be sending the text. Yo, just a. Yo, just a. Yeah, let's see where. See where it goes. No, but he, you know what he did say before he. This was prior to him getting the job, this was like, at some point when he was talking about maybe, you know, he, he had said that they were, it was. It just looked like it was kind of all over the place. You know what I mean? Like, and it's what we, it's what we had kind of said on, on the pod. And I, you know, I talk about all the time is like, yo, do we have a roadmap? Like, do we. Is there any plan from getting to A to Z? Or. We just, we just come into the office every day throwing shit everywhere. And I think, you know, he alluded to. I didn't say that verbatim, but he was like, look, there's, there's. So I think he will, he will help out for sure. In terms of vision, Steve is really good with that. Like, for whatever he was in Brooklyn or he wasn't sitting in that chair. He's really good at vision and laying out a plan to execute that or at least helping out in that Regard. That probably won't be his primary job, but I think he'll an asset to them.
- [38:40]
B
And look, I mentioned the. Just the turnover, right? So James Jones, who had been an executive of the year, they had pushed him aside into some sort of consulting role. He subsequently left and took Joe Dumars, his old role as the. Effectively the czar of discipline for the NBA. So he's now here in New York. And Brian Gregory, whose name I have to look up, I think every time. I've never met the man, but he's now the GM of the Suns after spending an entire. One entire year in James Jones's front office. But he's an Ishbia guy, like I think Ishbia was. I saw more Ishba quotes on social media yesterday than I saw Brian Gregory quotes. So I just, I do think there is, like, there may be too many cooks in the kitchen out there, but, like, adding Steve to. To that kitchen is undoubtedly a good thing. You need somebody who's kind of knows the league. I think Matt Isbia has been way out over his skis as an owner his first few years here. That's clear. James Jones had a lot of experience, and now he's out. Brian Gregory has very little experience. So I hope for the sun's sake and for your sake, Raja, to the extent that you still have a son's rooting interest, that Steve brings some needed wisdom there. I do think, like, so Ishba says this quote, like, it's not gonna be measured wins and losses, but in success, which. What the hell does that mean? So he followed up with. He followed up on Twitter after everybody was clowning him. To clarify, he says success is making our fans proud of our team and excited to watch every game. Success is getting better every day, all season. Success is building a championship culture and identity. Okay, fine. I mean, but like, he just. The guy just needs to be a little bit more straightforward. Like, I appreciate that he talks a lot. I appreciate that he is passionate. I appreciate that he is candid. But his candor is often spin candor, because he says things like. And this was. He sat down with ESPN the other day, and on the, The Kevin Durant thing, on the trade, he says he just wasn't a fit for what we were doing going forward. Like, no, Kevin Durant wanted out. You. It's okay to just say, I. I made a huge freaking trade three seconds after I took ownership of the team. I gave away all of our assets. It didn't work out, and it didn't work.
- [40:54]
A
That's all you need to say. That's all you really need to say to that. It did not work out.
- [40:58]
B
He wasn't a fit. Kevin Durant's not a fit. Like, stop. Like, don'.
- [41:01]
A
You.
- [41:01]
B
You don't have to spin everything, right? And, and I. You build more credibility with the fans and the media by being honest about where your missteps were and being honest about bad situations, and you created a bad situation. And to your credit, whoever got in your ear finally and said, you got to undo this thing, you traded Durant. Obviously, not for nearly as much as what you traded to get him. You, you know, bought out Bradley, be. Or waved and stretched him. He's going to be on your books for years to come. Again, not great. But you recognized that you had hit a dead end, right? Like, but it's okay to say that. So, anyway, I agree.
- [41:36]
A
Could have just said. Could have just said, like, we're going to be excited. We're going to play hard. We're going to get these fans excited again.
- [41:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, right? And that's it. Just, like, just be straightforward. All right, next quote. I literally sat there and cried for two hours because so many things ran through my mind. Damn, is my career over? Am I going to get traded? Are all my partners going to drop me? My basketball career flashed in front of my eyes. I'm in my prime, one of the best basketball players in the world. Maybe a giveaway. And it felt like it was all taken away.
- [42:06]
A
Jason Tatum.
- [42:07]
B
That's Tatum. Yeah. I probably should have stopped before that, because you were. I was watching your expresses, Roger. You're like, huh, Wait, I go a.
- [42:13]
A
Lot of places with that.
- [42:14]
B
Yeah, there are a lot. That was Jason Tatum to People magazine. Tatum really made the media rounds this week. He's. I think he sat with espn. He sat with Sports Illustrated, my buddy Chris Mannix. He. He did a lot. He was definitely on a Recovering from Achilles tour to. To discuss it all. What struck you?
- [42:33]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My bad, My bad. Because I was just remembering you guys were in the. In the. In the group. You sent. You sent. Or we. In our group text. Someone sent him at the desk with the. I don't get enough credit. Like. Or I. Yeah, like some quote like that.
- [42:47]
B
You know what's funny about that one? Because I was all like, as. I'm easily annoyed, as you guys know, the I'm not getting enough credit thing. And I was like, come on, Jason Tatum, like, you're. You're perennially, you know, one of the top five in MVP Voting zero, you know, a zillion all NBA and all Star and everything else. So then I went to go look it up. You know, it was really at fault for that quote and for it making Tatum look like he's the one saying, I'll get credit. The guy who asked the question Stephen A.
- [43:15]
A
Set him right up there, huh?
- [43:16]
B
He said, I'm not going to do a Stephen A Impression. That would be annoying. But he said there's been an absence of appreciation for who you are. When they talk about superstars in the NBA, they don't talk about you like that, which. All right, I'm sorry, Bullshit. That's just not even true. But when you say that, of course the player sitting in front of you on live TV is going to just kind of embrace that and. And run with the premise. But I don't think Tatum's quote was even all, like. It wasn't nearly as strong as what Stephen Hayes said. So I'm gonna give Tatum a pass on that one. He's. He's never been like that, I don't think. He's not somebody who's out there trying to, like, drum up, you know, or. I'm underappreciated. Like, I'm sure he's probably said it something at times. He didn't win finals, MVP or whatever, and. But no, I mean, the guy's. The guy is widely universally respected, so.
- [44:03]
A
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And I listen. I mean, the. The flashing before my eyes, you know, really kind of hit me there like that when. When that. When that injury. When you have an injury like that. And I know it sounds cliche, but, like, it, you know, your mortality just flashes before your. Your basketball mortality or your football mortality, whatever that is. I mean, in a nanosecond, it all just ran through your head like, you know, you're like an old movie and they have the clips of. Of like the old grainy, you know, film like that shit's just flying through your head and, like. And it's. It's crazy how that happens like that. But it was good to see him. I saw him on some of this stuff. It was good to see him out and about and.
- [44:39]
B
And, yeah, and, you know, making the rounds and seemingly in good spirits. Right. He seems like he's really in a good place mentally, in contrast to what he was talking about when he first. Understandable. Dr. Martin O', Malley, the orthopedist who did the surgery in that same story in People magazine, said that his progress has been really impressive. That quote, I don't think I've seen a person's calf look as strong as his. At six or eight weeks, he was doing double heel rises. And so, like, loss of strength is often the issue with an Achilles, he says, and he doesn't think that's going to be an issue for Tatum. I don't think we should expect Tatum or Tyrese Halliburton and certainly not Dame Lillard on the court that all this season, Tatum is doing the usual thing where it's like, I'm not planning on. I'm not ruling it out. I'm not. Whatever. And that's the right attitude to take, I think. But, like, this is a lost season for the Celtics, and I'm very curious. Pina and I talked about this last week. I'm very curious to see what Jalen Brown looks like as. As kind of the number one option for the time being. But, like, you traded Drew Holiday away and you traded Porzingis, and Horford's leaving to probably sign with the warriors, and, like, there's just not much there. Having Tatum come back at any point just seems foolish. And. Yeah. So I don't. I don't think we'll see him. And I. And I kind of hope we don't. All right, one quick, funny quote. I'm super excited. I haven't had a good screen in two years.
- [45:57]
A
Oh, I'm super excited. I haven't had a good screen. Steph Curry. No, he gets good screens, though. I'm trying to think of someone who's. Who uses. Can you give me a hint? Is this, like, would I be using a screen to come off shooting, or would I be using it on a.
- [46:10]
B
Ball screen to do whatever the hell he wants? Because he really likes having the ball in his hands and doing stuff with it.
- [46:17]
A
All right. Lamello ball.
- [46:21]
B
No, no, this would be Jordan Poole, in fact, because the Pel. He got traded to the Pelicans, and they signed Kavon Looney. And so that's. This is about his, like, little warriors reunion with Looney.
- [46:33]
A
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Because he was. Steph was the beneficiary of some good Looney Squirrels.
- [46:38]
B
Oh, yeah. But I haven't had a good screen in two years. Like. No. You know, I'm sure you're feeling really great if you're a Wizards big right about now. Love Jordan Pool. Just. Just. Just saying his piece. That's. That's great stuff.
- [46:51]
A
Again, like, that's. That's on Brand, but, like, come on, man. Like, we're not thinking before we're like, what are we doing?
- [46:57]
B
That's fine. I love it. Keep, keep, keep, keep coming with it. All right, maybe, maybe we can squeeze two more quotes in here. Quote, I think if I came in here and preached how much I want to win and tried to take every dollar and make it difficult for the organization, I'd seem like a fraud. And that's not who I am. I want to win bad. And whatever it takes, I've got a good amount of money. I don't think a couple more M's, I guess that's millions will change my life.
- [47:20]
A
Jimmy Butler.
- [47:21]
B
No, no. Signed an extension recently. One of these summer transactions that we just glossed right over.
- [47:30]
A
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
- [47:33]
B
That was Mikhail Bridges.
- [47:34]
A
Kale Bridges.
- [47:36]
B
Noteworthy. Noteworthy in part because when people started buzzing about cap Circumvention and Kawhi McHale taking a little discount a year after Jalen Brunson signed early, like in both cases, I think they both are just kind of like extended early. And so it's not like they gave up a ton, but they did give up some in the process. And of course it's got everybody looking sideways at the Knicks because of the Knicks and, you know, because they'd already gotten caught tampering to get Jalen Brunson in the first place. But it's just, there's a cynicism there and there are people around the league, Raj, including somebody I was having a very intense texting conversation with a couple days ago, who's in the league, who was basically like this, like, just saying, like, I don't. This can't be right. And I was pushing back not on behalf of the Knicks or Mikhail Bridges, but just on, on, on this principle. I've been covering the league long enough to remember when, you know, Karl Malone and Gary Payton go to the, to the Lakers in tandem, both taking massive pay cuts. And they were toward the end of their careers, but they still could have both commanded huge salaries. And one took the mid level. The other one took like the minimum to join the Lakers to try to win a title with Shaq and Kobe, because at that point they wanted a championship more than they wanted more money. The very first team I ever covered was the 97, 98 Lakers. And Rick Fox had just gotten there. And Rick had turned down much more guaranteed money from, I think it was Cleveland at the time, and then turned down money again the next year. He was going year by year to get his earn his bird rights with the Lakers that he'd eventually get It. But in the meantime, he was sacrificing. But Rick, that was, he was all about like, I would rather win. I don't need to make the maximum. And this is when NBA player salaries were a fraction of what they are today. So my point to this person I was having this intense argument with who works in the league the other day was simply like, I get it. I understand the cynicism, I understand the suspicion. I also think that, you know, there are players in this league still to this day who do want to win as much as they want to make the money. And I think we, I try to be careful about just assuming anything because these guys make so much. Now, like Mikhail Bridges, I haven't looked at his career earnings, but I'm sure He's already cleared 100 million for his career. So sacrificing, quote, unquote, a few million if it means being in a great situation with a team you love in a city that you love and a chance to win a title, I don't think that's a stretch. Or am I being naive?
- [49:49]
A
No, I don't think you're being naive. I, look, money is money. Some of us have to. Some of us aren't in situations all the time where we can make those kind of calls, but given the opportunity and I tried to, you know, like the only, like I do this all the time, but like my son, Dia, right, Like he's going into a, you know, an nil situation and we've been navigating it the last few years and you know, he, he's lucky in some regards that I was blessed to do what I do. But like, he had already expressed not chasing the highest potential nil situation. He wanted to go somewhere where he thought he fit, where his quality of life was going to be, what he wanted it to be, where they had a chance to win. So if 18 year olds are on that wavelength already, some of them, I don't think it's crazy to think somebody with $100 million would say, I'll give up a few of them to live in New York City and play with my buddies on a pretty damn good team. That's ridiculous, right?
- [50:53]
B
You don't necessarily have to have some under the table, deal with like the bodega down the street or, or, or Katz's Deli or something. Right? Like aside from that, just being in New York and being on the Knicks, like, you're probably getting legit endorsements that are making up some of this anyway.
- [51:08]
A
So there are more, There are more guys in the NBA that do that than you would like than, than you would guess. And, and just because they sign a big deal at, at, at X destination doesn't mean there wasn't a better deal on the table at Y destination. And they said, I'd rather go to X. Yeah, yeah.
- [51:25]
B
I, I, I don't think we should be that jaded about it. I get it that in certain situations and certainly like the, the Kawhi one is like, you know, like, it's like a bazillion alarm bells going off. But I don't think that every time a guy takes a few million less than what he could theoretically get or a little less than the max, if it helps the team, it helps you too. To the extent that players in this league do want to win and would prefer to win, and maybe not all. By the way, there are plenty of guys in this league who would take the guaranteed money over the better playing situation or competitive situation, or they'll take the opportunity to go have the ball in their hands more. There are other priorities. Right. It's always balancing all these things. What city do you want to live in? Where's your family live? Where will your will, you know, if you're married, will your family be happy? What are the schools like? There's all these different things and I think there are trade offs in every single one of these decisions contractually. And this is like Mikhail Bridges got to go to a finals with the Suns and then spent a couple of really rough years with the Nets. He's playing, you know, with his old college buddy Brunson. They're a team that's really well positioned to make it to the finals and that could have multiple bites at the apple the next few years. Like, why wouldn't you want to help? And especially in today's NBA where that second apron is so tough to be a contender year in, year out for a three to five year run and be able to do it without having to sacrifice players and talent because of the cap issues. Everybody do that? Yeah, the agents and their, the players and their agents are now going to have to bake that into these decisions. Like, I know it sucks, I know it sucks to say that a player should have to sacrifice. You know, the owners are billionaires. It's not about the luxury tax anymore. It's about the team being hamstrung and not being able to do anything else with the roster if they're up against the first or especially the second apron. So if you're cognizant of that I. I think it's fair. So we have reached Raja Bell's heart out because he's the pickup guy. Now he's got to go get the kids. We respect it. We are not as compelling as the Utah Jazz and I don't. And I don't have a spare mid level contract to send him. So we will wrap it up there. Happy to be back with you, Raja. Happy to have real ones back. We will be back again next Friday and I will see you then, sir. And thank you all for listening. We will see you then.