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The Ringer NBA Show
Who the Lakers Should Acquire at Center, and All-Star Voting Politics | Real Ones
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- [00:01]
David Shoemaker
Hey there humanoids. It's the Masked Man. David Shoemaker. It's a new era in professional wrestling and that means a new era here.
- [00:08]
Kaz
At the Ringer Wrestling Show. Kaz here every Monday and Thursday.
- [00:11]
David Shoemaker
Hang out with me and my guy.
- [00:12]
Kaz
Shoes on the Masked man show and Ben Cruz here.
- [00:15]
Cal
Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Tuesdays for Ringer Wrestling Worldwide where we hit on the most interesting.
- [00:22]
David Shoemaker
Headlines and even react to some of.
- [00:24]
Cal
Masked man's and even your hottest takes.
- [00:27]
David Shoemaker
Don't tap out.
- [00:27]
Kaz
Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling show feed now on Spotify or wherever you get podcasts worldwide.
- [00:40]
Cal
This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Amazon's, your go to for all things hoops, game gear, snacks for the late night tip offs, you name it. And now you can shop for a Hyundai there, too. Pick your model and trim from a local dealer, see transparent pricing up front and knock out most of the paperwork online. Then just head to the dealership to finalize the deal. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Limited availability only through participating Hyundai dealers in select markets. This program is available for the purchase of new vehicles and is not currently available for lease. This episode is brought to you by gnc. At gnc, nutrition isn't just a department.
- [01:24]
David Shoemaker
It'S the whole store.
- [01:25]
Cal
Nutrition for bigger gains.
- [01:26]
David Shoemaker
Sculpting that revenge body and to have.
- [01:29]
Cal
You feeling like you're ready to go. GNC spent 90 years perfecting nutrition and protein that literally tastes like cake. So you can look like cake.
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David Shoemaker
You got goals.
- [01:39]
Cal
GNC has results. Visit your local GNC store or shop.
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David Shoemaker
Now@Gnc.Com real one slogan. Murdoch here, project there. Roger, keep that in project. I'll be up, bro. I'll be up. Roger Bell here Friday vibes.
- [02:09]
Kaz
No offense taken. Howard's a G. He said G. I'm.
- [02:13]
David Shoemaker
Sorry I called Howard Howard Bell during the pod.
- [02:18]
Kaz
You got baby brain, dog.
- [02:20]
David Shoemaker
Oh, my God, bro. I'm just, I'm. Oh, God. It's just you. You over there. You right over there on the screen that I'm talking to. You are my co host. What are we talk. We're going to talk about Anthony Davis, we're going to talk about Jimmy Butler, we're going to talk about politics within all star voting and how players be hating and how, you know, you know, this is stuff, same same old stuff that we're doing. How are you doing, buddy? You missed the Tuesday show, which was a really fun show. I went on a rant I had like a. I had a big rant.
- [02:51]
Kaz
Oh, did you? I need to tap in.
- [02:52]
David Shoemaker
I got in my bag.
- [02:53]
Kaz
Yeah, it's been a bit. It's a busy time of year for. It's a busy time of year for high school football recruits, so there are a lot of moving parts this time of year. So I'm sorry I wasn't there. We're headed out to Austin. Got a little flight in a couple hours. So excited about that. I apologize for missing the last show.
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David Shoemaker
From the pre pod meeting. You want to involve anything?
- [03:15]
Kaz
No, no, no. We're gonna have what?
- [03:20]
David Shoemaker
I know the pre pod meetings are sacred, but, you know, like, if you.
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Kaz
Ever want to break the Internet real quick, I don't know, ain't nothing popping. Hey, listen, it's just a busy time of year for the kids that are coming up, especially the 26 class, which is now squarely in the crosshairs. Cause 25 is basically wrapped up. So these colleges are out doing their due diligence and stuff like that.
- [03:43]
David Shoemaker
College out here simping a lot of. Hey, big heads right now, huh, Roger? A lot of hay.
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Kaz
Like, ah, listen, you know what's pretty crazy, man. Like, it didn't, it didn't happen like this in basketball, and certainly not at my high school. We weren't like a, a, a, a, a program that was putting them out like, year after year after year. But even I think the ones that do, they don't get the type of foot traffic that the football powerhouses get. If you wanted to, like, meet your favorite college football coach, you could go to, like, Broward Boulevard over here where American Heritage is. You're gonna see somebody, you. You'll see seven of your favorite people every day.
- [04:31]
David Shoemaker
Yeah, I mean, I obviously wasn't as decorated of a football player as your son was, but we had like, we had a, we had a coach that was known. Like, my high school coach was really known. He's now the associate head coach of Arizona. Lonzo Carter. Yeah, and so, like, people would just come through all the time. Not for me necessarily, but, like, you would come if you know how the recruiting game goes. Like, if a coach is coming through, they ask who you got, and if high school coach ain't hating, they say, oh, I'm going to bring my such and such here. So I met a lot of coaches just pulling up. Like, even if I wasn't there, if they were looking to go see somebody else, sure. It's a pretty tight experience, man, just to go in there and like, you don't really realize how cool it is until, you know, later on in life. But you. If you're blessed with, like, a cool coach, that. And, like, there's good recruits on your team and you get to meet some folks for sure.
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Kaz
Yeah, That's. I mean, listen, I. Again, I did not live that. I'm kind of living vicariously through D. I remember when he was, like, in the eighth grade, and we picked the program for that reason, like, it was going to sharpen him up. He'd play against the best kids. He'd be coached by the best, play with the best. And so we. We. We picked it for that reason. I remember him sitting there being like, man, you know, at the time, it'd be like. It'd be like Nick Saban would show up, you know, and he'd be there to recruit the kids and. And the who's who of the coaches, and he would just be in awe of that, obviously, as an 8th grader not being recruited. Then in the 9th grade, he'd be kind of like, you. Like you were saying, like, they might not have been there squarely to see him, but his coach liked him. So they. They'd be like, yo, this is our young freshman D. Nobody gave a shit. And then 10th and 11th grade, like, it became more like, hey, there. A lot of them are coming through there to see him. So he's. He's. He's. It's been cool to watch the whole process play out, but so different than basketball. Like, basketball just did not have that number one man.
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David Shoemaker
And they remind you how, like, what number one is like, in terms of what the sport that gets the most attention. Like, it just. It's. It just is what it is.
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Kaz
Yes. It's hard to compare.
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David Shoemaker
Stage. Remember one time I met Urban Meyer, and I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. I was like, what? What? Like prime. Urban Meyer was like, oh, my. Okay. All right, all right. What's up? I was like, hello. And I couldn't say I had no. I couldn't say anything else. Was it. Anyways. Trying to find a pun here. Trying to find a pun here. Speaking of, like, light recruiting, Anthony Davis. Yep, I'm here. I'm here, man. I'm here. Friday vibes.
- [07:08]
Kaz
Six and a half.
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David Shoemaker
It's not. It's not my best work, but, hey, it's a decent enough transition to get us going now. The Lakers just blew out Isaiah Blakely's Celtics. We don't necessarily have to talk about that too much. They're. They're real. The Celtics Are reeling right now, but big win for the Lakers. But I think it came out. There was a piece that came out today by friend of the show, a friend of the show, Sean Sorania, and he had an interview with Anthony Davis and they talked about a myriad of things, including how the LA fires have affected him and other things. I want to give that credence as well. But the big thing that's the headline right now is Anthony Davis was asked if what he wanted to see out of the front office. And Anthony Davis says, I want a center, you know, because, you know, the team needs a center. Because, you know, back when the 2020 title, you know, we had Dwight Howard and JaVale McGee and I feel like I just play so much better, you know, when I have a center to play alongside. And while that is, you know, I get what he's saying, he just ain't that. That was just cue to me that, yo, I really ain't trying to guard these big motherfuckers night in and night out. That's what I got from this. Right? I mean, because the numbers clearly suggest and tell us time and time again that he's better at the five and the team offensively, offensively, offensively, he's better at the five.
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Kaz
No, I'm. I'm asking, kind of saying that, right? Like most of the numbers support him being better at the.
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David Shoemaker
Okay all around and, and every. And even what he did fail to say was during the 2022 playoffs, we know this because we were there. That's when we first, you know, kind of got, you know, got in our bag Raja. But during the 2020 finals was he played the majority of the crunch time minutes at 5 when they, when all the chips were down, he was the five. Whether he like much to his chagrin, but like also they wanted title. So I think he's conflating two things. What does this tell you? Is it actually going to help or is this a bit self serving for him? Just like, yo, let me. I don't want to guard Yic all the damn time. Get somebody else to do it.
- [09:22]
Kaz
Yeah, I think both things, both things can be true. I mean it's self serving but. But you know, it could be beneficial to the team. Yeah, I don't. I wish I had seen the numbers. I. A lot of times I think when we talk about players scaling up a position, like how effective LeBron is, let's say at the 4 or like when Sean Marion used to play with us and Mike would always have the dilemma. Mike D'Antoni would always have the dilemma of three or four, and Tricks didn't like the 4:4 necessarily because of the label of a power forward versus small.
- [10:01]
David Shoemaker
Forward, but he never let that be known when he was on the podcast.
- [10:04]
Kaz
Yeah, straight up. But. But hit the offensive. The offensive production on all the numbers supported us and him offensively as being really good at the four. Right. So, so when, when you usually talk about scaling a guy up a position, I think a lot of times those are. Those. The offensive numbers reflect that. Right? Because you just get a, you know, a matchup where you can kind of, especially in today's game, probably outmaneuver the bigger player that you're scaling up to play against. So, so, so I would say, like, both things can be true, right? Like, he might be able to really play well at the five defensively as well, but do you want to against more punitive bigs like Jokic, who will take you down there in the paint and really be physical? Do you want him to have to do that for most of the game? And, and, and what does that do to him over the course of, you know, a season or a series, let's say, and in a smaller sample size when, when the money's on the line, like, you're playing every second or third night, like, what type of toll does that take on AD to have to dole out that type of physicality defensively for the entire game? And he has the burden of, of, of, you know, scoring the most points and being the focal point of the offense. So while he can do it, I could make the case and support him saying, hey, look, you get a bigger body in here to take some of that responsibility away from me for most of the night, or at least you know, some of the night. It allows me to be fresher for both sides of the ball when you need me. Right? So I think both things can be true a little bit.
- [11:41]
David Shoemaker
I agree with you. I think that, and I think this is something that the, the Lakers should have at least broached over the off season, right? Like, they're not to say, and we're going to get into who the Lakers can acquire at the deadline or, you know, maybe in the waiver wire after the trade deadline. We'll see what happens. But I agree with him in the sense that you probably need a center for times like this, right? On a Thursday in January, like, you know, you probably, yo, man, I don't want to guard all the time for six months, a guy a big down the stretch and be, you Know, expected to be this, this big type player or expected to take a big load of the offensive pie. And I get what he's saying on that. He's not wrong. But I don't know how much also in the grand scheme with this Lakers team, because he was talking, it was interesting to watch the interview. He was talking like, yo, this is going to be the move that can, you know, put us over the top. Like, we want to win a title this year. We want to win a title this year. And I'm looking to see the teams that the Lakers could beat to get there, and I just don't see it right. And I love his optimism for it, and I don't expect anything less from a competitor like ad But I don't know, just presently constructed, like, where this Lakers team can go with or without that, that big, you know, going going forward. Even if they do get it right. Like, I think it's more than just they're playing really good basketball right now, but this team isn't built for a deep playoff run, no matter what. I don't think.
- [13:23]
Kaz
Yeah, I. Look, I was on a. I was on a buddy show yesterday, and he asked me about the Lakers, and this was before, you know, the AD comments or before I was aware of the AD comments. And he asked me about the Lakers if they've. Because of, you know, recent success and, you know, just the way they're playing. Like, did I, did I? Did I. What did I. What did I think the ceiling was for them? Did it move the needle for me? And I answered similarly to the way you just did. Like, I. Even before we get, before we get a big. I would say, look, yeah, I get it. You're sitting there hovering in and around, striking distance in the Western Conference. I just don't feel it, though. It's a hard thing for me to explain and put into words like, I, you know, I just don't feel that from them and whatever big you were talking about bringing in, I don't see him being the answer to that. To that feeling that I have that, you know, like, you get a complimentary big. I don't think gets you over the hump in the Western Conference. I don't. I don't think that's the missing piece for a title run for the Lakers. Just personally.
- [14:28]
David Shoemaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the standings right now, man. Like, they're. They're fifth in the Western Conference. Who would they play if the playoffs ended today? They play the Denver Nuggets. We know how that Goes right. They're better off getting bumped down. Like, they're better off getting bumped down to the 6 seat and playing the Grizzlies. But, like, even then, I just. That's. If. Even if they beat the Grizzlies, like, I don't see them doing a deep playoff run like they would. Everything would have to go great now on. From a perspective of who you would get, right? Like, we still gotta. I think if. If you're. If AD says something like, I think like this at this time, right. As a trade deal on his. I think you gotta kind of at least make a move, an ancillary piece to get a big. I mean, this team is really thin behind him, right. And I don't think. And I don't. I do not like the front court when they take AD out at all. It is not great. Right? So do you get. You give. I'm gonna throw some names. You get Busovich?
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Kaz
Would I. Would I get him? What am I. I mean, in a vacuum, what would I give up?
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David Shoemaker
No, I'm just, just.
- [15:31]
Kaz
But yes. Yes. The answer. Vucevich. Yes.
- [15:34]
David Shoemaker
That's interesting because I say no.
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Kaz
Okay. Why?
- [15:37]
David Shoemaker
Terrible defensively, and I don't know if they can coexist together, like, terrible defensively. Right. So. I don't know. I don't know. Vucevic. So, yes, we split on Boosovich. Okay. Jonas Valanchunis.
- [15:50]
Kaz
I mean, anything. Anything you say to me in that vein of player, I'm probably going to tell you. Yes, any. Any. Anything of that, that level, kind of NBA player, whatever. Whatever level you want to call that. I'm going to say yes to the Lakers. Like, and I'm not even. You know, I understand your point about defensive prowess or lack thereof, but we're talking about big, accomplished bodies that we can throw out there in a way. And you were just before that, you were talking about their depth and what. What you think of their frontline when he's not out there. So I don't have the luxury of getting into specifics necessarily, like game. Game type and numbers, you know, so, like, if you give me those type of guys, I'm probably gonna say yes to you. So what would your answer be to it?
- [16:35]
David Shoemaker
Balance. Shun is. Yes. But my last one, I think would be like, the one. I think Clint Capella is the one that is, like, perfect for this, for what they need, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Kaz
I. I mean, tiered. Yeah. I take him before I took the other two.
- [16:51]
David Shoemaker
Yeah. Just because, like, he can, like, if that's what you're asking for, because you're asking for, like, a guy like Dwight Howard. I mean, Clint Capella is no Dwight Howard in terms of, like, career trajectory, but, like, he is somebody that can do exactly what the Lakers need at this point, which is block shots, catch lobs, get the hell out of AD's way when it's time to. You know, like, I think that, that. I think that the other two may be a little bit more redundant if Clint's not there. I wouldn't mind Valanchunas. Like, I think that's a good medium between the two. We'll see what happens. I just. I get what he's saying. He's right. Lakers, go listen to your star for now.
- [17:31]
Kaz
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, the part that we didn't talk about with that is what is it going to cost you? Like, and if the price isn't, like, it's not hurting your wallet too much, then I would say, yeah, if the price is less than palatable. Again, I don't know what you do as the Lakers.
- [17:53]
David Shoemaker
I don't know Cam Reddish, some other, like, Max Christie.
- [17:56]
Kaz
And yeah, if we're talking about like.
- [17:58]
David Shoemaker
That type, like a pick or something like that, you know, like something.
- [18:01]
Kaz
Yeah, if it's not hurting your pockets. Yes. Like, but I wouldn't be, I guess, like, want picks.
- [18:04]
David Shoemaker
Like, like the Wizards would just want picks. You know, they don't. They don't really care about necessarily winning. They just want to take, like, stockpile at this point.
- [18:11]
Kaz
Right, right. I guess my point would be. I don't. I. Again, having said, I don't know if that necessarily gets you over the hump. I like Clankapella, though. Like, that was the name. I didn't. Yeah, I like Clank Pella. Yeah. I mean, if you could take a swing at it and it's not hurting you, go ahead.
- [18:29]
David Shoemaker
Now you are. Let's switch gears real quick. Now, you are our Miami correspondent. Right? You are South Florida correspondent. You always give the temperature level. Right. Of our beloved South Florida. What is the temperature right now on Jimmy Butler? What's going on there? What's up? Let me give context first, but then I want to see what's like, the energy on the ground. And then I just want to just talk through just the utter petty that is going on in Miami right now. Jimmy played a game, a couple of games, I believe, after getting. He just appeared. He said, I'm back. And then, you know, they just got trounced by 20 against Denver. And then he. There's he gets suspended two games for contract conduct detrimental to the team because he missed a flight. And it was interesting because Miami. Miami is just being really petty. Just. And they're putting their name on it, which I love. Like, they'll do official statements and tell you the reason. A lot of teams don't do that. They'll just say, no contract detrimental to the team, like, similar to Zion. And they'll leak it to a reporter like, you know, this is what happened, but they won't say it officially. Miami is putting their name, their chest and everything into this beef. And so they talked about a contract instrumental to the team. And then he missed flights and immediately Jimmy Butler goes to a party just right out of the. Just right out of the James Harden playbook. All right, Just. He's just going to cause utter chaos. What is the temperature right now in Florida? Not the actual temperature. I'm sure it's lovely. But around Jimmy Butler and the Miami Heat at this point, what. And what are the fans thinking right now? What's going on?
- [20:09]
Kaz
Well, let me just start by correcting you with actual temp in Florida's 52 degrees right now. So not. Not lovely. 52 and gray. So not. Not lovely.
- [20:19]
David Shoemaker
Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. My bad.
- [20:21]
Kaz
It's okay. Listen, 99.9 of the time, you would have been right.
- [20:25]
David Shoemaker
It's 50 degrees now in the Bay Area.
- [20:27]
Kaz
Yeah.
- [20:28]
David Shoemaker
Somebody that hates us. There's somebody in middle America that is like, shut the hell up and just talk about.
- [20:36]
Kaz
For us. I mean, it's all relative. The Heat as it relates to Jimmy Butler. Hold on real quick.
- [20:41]
David Shoemaker
That's such an thing to say. Would you just say it's all relative. You'll be all right.
- [20:47]
Kaz
Hey, listen, man, there's good and bads with every place, right? We got. We got hella our own problems down here. The, The. The majority of the Heat fan base has, from what I can tell, turned on. On Jimmy Butler. This has become. This has become too big of a distraction, too big of a circus. I think the feeling is he's making a mockery of this. Like. And it's one of the quickest. It's one of the quickest turns on a star player that I can remember. And Jimmy Butler was. Was everything. You know, this is way. This was Wade county. Like, well, now I'm in Broward, but, like, just a little further south from me was Wade.
- [21:31]
David Shoemaker
It's all Wade county, though. It's all Wade.
- [21:33]
Kaz
Yeah, you're right. You're right, you're right.
- [21:34]
David Shoemaker
You know, over there, like.
- [21:35]
Kaz
But no, that. That's Dade county, bro. We ain't no Wade county in Broward, bro. But. But Jimmy Butler, I. I only say that to say that Jimmy Butler, while he's not D. Wade, I mean, man, for. For a few years up until recently, like, he was. He was beloved.
- [21:53]
David Shoemaker
And he's going to Little Havana. He's out here playing bones, you know what I'm saying? He's.
- [21:57]
Kaz
Whatever. Whenever they're out, they're out, they're out. I mean, I saw a dude, a graffiti artist doing some sort of. Like, some. Some sort of defacing or was it. Yeah, I don't know if he was doing that or if he was making a new one. That was. That was kind of derogatory. I don't. I don't really remember exactly what it was. Forgive me, but, like, yeah, it's a bit much now for the Miami fan. I think they're ready to turn the page.
- [22:24]
David Shoemaker
Is that, like, normal? Because I feel like if I'm Jimmy Butler, and also Jimmy Butler is like, you know, he's a professional basketball player with a competitive level, competitiveness level, like, that I could never even imagine. And, like, wants to win and also, like, wants to get paid. Right? But, like, I feel like being a star in Miami is better than any other situation he wants to go to. Right? Like, I feel like that's so much. That would be so much cooler, right? Isn't it? Like, it's probably really awesome to be a star in Miami, right? They treat their stars well.
- [22:55]
Kaz
I was never a star anyway.
- [22:57]
David Shoemaker
Live your truth, Raja as a star in Miami.
- [23:01]
Kaz
Definitely not a star in Miami, but, like, Miami as a town when. When. When things are going well, when the Heat are playing well and you are the star of the Heat. Like, I mean, they're. They're. Most NBA cities are great places to be when things are going well and you're the star. But Miami, for all that it represents in terms of weather, things to do, opportunities at your fingertips, I think it's. Yes, it's one of the places that most people would tell you, I'd love to be a star in that town.
- [23:29]
David Shoemaker
Yeah, makes sense. It's funny, though, because, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about how Brad Bill was, like, rightfully waving his no trade clause in the face of all of the NBA community. Now, like, he's a trade. Rumors he might go to the Bucks and, like, Jimmy might go to the Suns. I think Jimmy to the Suns. I. I floated this with. With Howard But I think Jimmy to the sun is like, a really cool thing. I, I would love to see for. I think that would be like, the perfect landing spot for Jimmy. I don't know what the Suns would do necessarily in playoffs, but if you talk about what we talked about a few weeks ago, me and you, about Devin Booker and Kevin Durant and the way that they are made up and how they are, you put a Jimmy Butler into that locker room and kind of tighten shit up. The only problem is he's going to get paid, but he's going to want to get paid. But Matt Ishbia is going to blow the bag. Like, he's going to. He's going to give you the bag. What do you think about that? Like, are you. Of all the landing spots for Jimmy, because there's no way this is tenable. But do you think. Where would you want to see him?
- [24:39]
Kaz
Yeah, I mean, I think you're onto something there of. I don't know where I'd want to see him, but let's just go through the Phoenix exercise with what they have in terms of an offensive role for Jimmy at this point. What version of Jimmy's offensive self is he right now? Can he drag a team offensively to, to the places that he was dragging the Heat, or has that ship kind of sailed? I would make the argument that, that, that those are years. We've passed that expiration date a little bit. So plugging him into a situation where he's got to be the focal point of the offense again, and I don't think that's ideal. Right. So, like, the Suns aren't that, like, they got, they got two dudes who are, are firmly entrenched in 1A and 1B. Like, they're going to take care of that, which allows Jimmy to be, you know, more of a complimentary offensive player. And at any given time, if you need him to, and he's playing against the number three matchup, I mean, that's an incredible spot for a Jimmy Butler skill level to be, to be productive, right?
- [25:46]
David Shoemaker
Yes.
- [25:47]
Kaz
From the leadership perspective for the Suns, he's exactly the type of, of personality that you needed to pair with those two. Somebody that does have that type of, you know, gravitas and, and, and respect that he has as a competitor, as a voice, as someone who, who holds his teammates accountable. Yeah, I, I think. But when he's on the, when he's on his good shit, if that makes sense.
- [26:15]
David Shoemaker
But he's usually on his good shit in the beginning of a run, though.
- [26:18]
Kaz
Well, that's what, that's what I said on the. So again, on the show I was on yesterday when my buddy asked me about Jimmy Butler specifically, it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily to Phoenix, but my point was whoever gets him in the short term is going to get the best version of him, right? So, like, so, yeah, for those, for, for, for what he's going to mean to their offense, what he's going to mean to their locker room, what those guys can do for him in terms of, you know, allowing his offense at whatever, you know, point it is in his career to kind of shine against a lesser level defender. I think it, I think it makes a lot of sense, you know, what they could ultimately do this year. I don't, I don't know where, where that goes moving forward if he gets sideways over contract negotiations, you know, like, that's, that's what starts to happen with guys, you know, as they get older and as they're in more and more shit and as, as the, as the, as the trail of, of, of, you know, beefs start to mount up and you can kind of roadmap, like, everywhere he's been, it's been ugly at the end. Like, that's the scary part, right? Like, what is that? What does it end? Like, when, when is it going to end and what does it end?
- [27:30]
David Shoemaker
Like, how much of the fact that he's beefing with Miami, which was. Seemed to be the perfect home for him, how much of that do you think reputationally, has messed with his reputation? Like, how much do you think that specifically with this team, in this group, if anybody could put their arms around or you would think, if you had to create a team to put their arms around Jimmy Butler and say, this is our guy, it's the Miami Heat. But Udonis Haslam does not rock with him right now. Pat Riley does not rock with him. D. Wade is like, in the comments saying outwardly that he rocks with them. So, I mean, I guess he got D. Wade still. He's on, he's, he's online with D. Wade. But, like, reputationally, how does this affect his reputation around the league?
- [28:23]
Kaz
Yeah, I mean, there.
- [28:25]
David Shoemaker
Because it's Miami.
- [28:26]
Kaz
No, it's, it's every day this goes on, it's doing a bit more irreparable damage to his image as a teammate and as a pro. Now I say a bit more. Like, I, like, I don't know what point we're at with, with every team in the league, you know, on him, whether they're in or out on the. On the. On the competitor, the person in the locker room, so on and so forth. But every day it goes on, it gets a little bit worse. Right? And so there are people out there, I'm telling you, like, I. I know this. There are people out there that are looking at it like, yeah, probably, you know, for.
- [29:01]
David Shoemaker
For.
- [29:01]
Kaz
For a lot of reasons, our team's not in the position to even, you know, warrant that type of shit. Like. Like bringing that in. It makes no sense for us, but because some would be like, yo, we got some good young ones. Like, we don't want to. Whatever the reason, there are people that are already out right now. Now, what you're doing to the teams that think they could absorb you and think that they have a culture set up to. To. To kind of bring out the best version of you, every day more shit comes out and it gets more sideways. There's just a little bit more of a reservation they're going to have. Right? Like, so I think. And I said this, too, like, he's. He's the talent, and what his. What he's been able to do over the course of a career is so tantalizing to teams that are close, like, really close, that I imagine, given the Heat, getting what they want out of a deal. I don't see them doing anything that at this point, I think it's so petty on both sides that I can't imagine the Heat does anything that they don't necessarily want to do with that.
- [30:00]
David Shoemaker
Could you see it, say, see the Heat, like, if they don't get a deal that to their liking, saying, you know what? Fuck you, Jimmy Butler. Yes. We're just going to whatever we need to do. You're not playing for the rest of the season. We're not doing this. Could you see them just. If they can't get a deal, 100%, we just. Just see them shutting it all the way down. Be like, you know What?
- [30:17]
Kaz
Fuck it, 100%. I'm not advocating for it. I'm not telling you it's good business. I'm not telling you that. That, that, that, that. That's the. The approach that I would necessarily take or advise someone to take. Could I see the Heat doing it? Yes.
- [30:33]
David Shoemaker
I can see it, too. It would be awesome. It'd be awesome for this podcast, bro. Every single time. I don't. I don't. I'm like, dog, what do we talk about? Jimmy does some stupid shit, and I'm like, bet you we got all the parties you want to go you want to go to all the parties, bro? Like, they look lit, too. Nothing like a Miami party, you know? You know?
- [30:55]
Kaz
No, but I've been there. I've been there, Logan. I've been there.
- [30:58]
David Shoemaker
Listen, but you did it in Utah, dog.
- [31:00]
Kaz
Well, I didn't. No, but. Yeah, at Utah and on a much smaller scale, right?
- [31:05]
David Shoemaker
Like.
- [31:05]
Kaz
Like, I was not Jimmy Butler. I was.
- [31:08]
David Shoemaker
No, what I meant to say. What I meant to say, though, when I said Utah, just to give context, I would just say, like, your. I feel like his was a bit more funner than yours, because at least if you were like, fuck you to the team. It's better to say you to the team if you're in Miami and you're missing the team play, as opposed to, like, going, sorry, never mind. Let me never not do this, because I don't want. I don't want. I don't want. Let me just.
- [31:28]
Kaz
Let me just leave it in.
- [31:29]
David Shoemaker
Let me just leave it. I'm protecting you, Mr. Jazz Man. I don't know me. I was. It was like, when.
- [31:39]
Kaz
Where are we going back to? Where are we going back to?
- [31:42]
David Shoemaker
I was just saying. I was just saying it's lit for, like, Jimmy because, like, if he misses the flight, he's going to a party. He's having fun during this time.
- [31:49]
Kaz
Yeah. No, I mean, yes, but what I. Yeah, I think in the middle of winter, unless you're. Unless it. You know, like, there's some real great things to do in the Salt Lake area in the middle of winter, but if you made me choose between, you know, having to stay at home in Salt Lake in the middle of the winter or stay at home in Miami, I think there's more I can get into in Miami, if that makes sense. Right?
- [32:09]
David Shoemaker
So, you know what I mean, that's in Park. In Park City. But that, you know, that kind of gets old after. Yeah, but you only do that so many times. It's fine. But you can only do this so many times.
- [32:18]
Kaz
If anything goes wrong on that, your contract is void. Right? So you're in a hold. So you ain't doing that. But. But I want to say, like, okay, I'm not Jimmy Butler. Like, I didn't mean as much to the Jazz as. As he is. He means to the Heat. But I do. I've lived this part where it's like, okay, like, you're. You're. You're clearly, as an organization, in my estimation, trying to make my life very difficult. Right? So now I'm gonna just. I'm gonna make a Mockery of whatever we got going on here. Mine was like, I, you know, we're going on road trips. I know you ain't playing me, and you're never gonna put me in. So part of my luggage is golf clubs. And this was before dudes were playing golf. Like, now, nobody gives a shit. Steph Curry plays golf whenever he wants. But back then, people weren't doing it. And with the Jazz, it was like. Because there was a certain culture around the jazz, too, you know? So, like, it was unheard of to see a set of sticks going onto the plane and off of the plane. Right. And so. So mine was more like that. Like, oh, okay. You know, like, after Shooter. Yeah. You could see me in the elevator with my golf clubs on my back. And I knew it fucking irritated everybody, and I knew they were sideways, but I was doing it anyway. And part of me was doing it just to elicit the response.
- [33:35]
David Shoemaker
Like, pettiest you think you've ever been? Was that the pettiest you've ever.
- [33:37]
Kaz
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, because. Yeah. And nowhere else did I do that. This was at the end. I knew. I was like, I didn't give a shit. But that's where Jimmy is, like, on scale, right? Jimmy is wild. Jimmy is sitting there like, bro.
- [33:50]
David Shoemaker
And it's just so flagrant, bro. It's so flagrant. He's going to party. He's going to unrivaled. Shout out to unrivaled. We saw y'all last week. Do your thing. Shout out to that. But he's over here doing backwards. He's wearing backwards jerseys. He's just like, anytime there's a camera, he's like, guess where I'm not at work.
- [34:13]
Kaz
Facts, facts. And again, I would say I'm going to tell you from experience at the NBA level, it's not escaping him, bro. This, man, is. This is. This is. This is part of it. And that is where. That is where I think, you know, it's rubbing the Heat fan the wrong way. It's rubbed the Jazz fan the wrong way. When. When. When I did it. And who. Who the fuck was I? But, like, I. I. Yes, Jimmy is making a mockery of this. And for all of those reasons, that is why, when you ask me, would the Heat, if they don't get what they want in the deal, swallow the. Swallow the. The poison pill? I think they would.
- [34:53]
David Shoemaker
Yeah. Hell, yeah. Not so. Not so great for Jimmy in the Heat, but awesome for us to just watch. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you stretch a segment Good job buddy. Take a quick break. We're going to talk about some all star politics.
- [35:16]
Cal
This episode is brought to you by Smucker's Uncrustables there's nothing like a snack that comes in clutch. So who's the real mvp? Uncrustables the best part of the sandwich. It's a round crimped sandwich made with soft pillowy bread filled with peanut butter and jelly. It goes straight from the freezer to your lunchbox, making it easier to pack lunch and sprint out the door. Now that's a morning win. You'll find Smuckers Uncrustables in the freezer aisle.
- [35:43]
David Shoemaker
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- [37:09]
Cal
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- [38:07]
David Shoemaker
I tried to have great, you know, mid pod discussions with Roger, but he said, fuck, you have a flight to catch. So we're here for the second segment.
- [38:15]
Kaz
Time is money, baby.
- [38:17]
David Shoemaker
I know. You know every time, bro. Raja, just before we get to this segment. Raja is such a diva. Raj is such a diva. He's always on the phone, he's like, yo, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me mute this mic. Hey, about the pot, about the pot, about the pot. I'm a holla at you to Pew. All right. Wow.
- [38:38]
Kaz
Okay, let me.
- [38:39]
David Shoemaker
All right, let me. What are we doing here?
- [38:41]
Kaz
Let me bring up, man, I gotta talk to this pool guy real quick.
- [38:50]
David Shoemaker
Oh, man, I do need to holl.
- [38:52]
Kaz
At him though, man. My pump, I think my pool pump's broken maybe out there.
- [38:55]
David Shoemaker
I can't believe that they call us serious podcasters because we are not serious people right now. We are absolutely not serious.
- [39:02]
Kaz
Yeah, okay, so let's talk some all star coding. Let's go.
- [39:06]
David Shoemaker
Let's talk some all star. First off, let me give you the starters really quickly, much to Howard Beck's delight. Um, Bro, they've been kicking his ass, dog.
- [39:16]
Kaz
Who's they?
- [39:19]
David Shoemaker
Every social media that I like, look on to, they're just like, they're just on his ass, bro. Just about this lamello thing, like, it's just. It's pretty gone. It's. It's just hilarious. As someone that has no, like, we don't care, but it's just. We got Howard's back, but it's still hilarious. It's hilarious.
- [39:36]
Kaz
Yeah, tap in and see some of that.
- [39:38]
David Shoemaker
All right, so Eastern conference starters, Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, Carl Anthony Towns, Jason Tatum, Giannis Adeta Kumbo. Solid list, solid starting list, right? Western Conference starters, Shay Gilgis Alexander, who is, like I said the previous episode, is the second base best, Shea behind Shea Moisture. Stephen Curry, Nicola jokic, Kevin Durant, LeBron James. Now that is the. That's pretty standard. That makes, that makes a ton of sense right now. Here's where the mess comes in. This is from my, the best basketball newsletter out there. Good morning. It's basketball Tom Ziller. Love him, Love his work. But he had something interesting just about the All Star voting. Lamelo Ball still came extremely close to grabbing the second starter slot as he nabbed the number three finish in the player vote. He didn't become a starter only because of one aspect I referenced in his Tuesday post. Brunson trailed Lillard narrowly for number three in the fan voting to get into the final weekend of fan voting. Brunson caught Dame at the end, who beat him by 120,000 votes. Had Brunson finished fourth in the fan votes, which is where he sat through the balloting process until the final week, Lamelo would have clinched the spot. So it was, it was the players. It was the players that, that, that ultimately, you know, the media was going to be what it was going to be. But if the. So what does that tell you right now? That the players voted LaMelo number three and ultimately didn't get him in the starting lineup. Because we knew the media like Howard was, was a very good window and how the media thought of it, thought of the media vote was going to go. Right. Like, we kind of just, we pretty much knew that. Right. And like, I understand why he did it. We've talked about it. But the players have also just doubled down on that as well.
- [41:38]
Kaz
The players have doubled down on Lamelo not. Not being a starter, you're saying?
- [41:42]
David Shoemaker
Exactly. Yes. How do you feel about that?
- [41:44]
Kaz
Yeah.
- [41:45]
David Shoemaker
What does that say about the game?
- [41:47]
Kaz
Well, I mean, I think it says basically what I was saying last, last week whenever we talked about it. Like, you recognize that starting is, you know, the All Star Game is one level of recognition. Starting in it is another level of recognition. And typically starting in the All Star Game, not only, you know, are you really talented and having a great year, but your team's winning. And so they. That's typically rewarded with the starting nod. Right? Like, but making the All Star Game is a whole nother animal in and of itself. And that's not directly, you know, correlated with how many wins your team has or doesn't have.
- [42:26]
David Shoemaker
And also, do you, do you think it's a bit of like the, the, the players being like, you know what, man? Hey, like, we get you balling, but the game is the game, bro. Like we still, there's still a level of, of unwritten rules and you still got to do right by the basketball gods.
- [42:44]
Kaz
Yeah. I mean we're, we're saying basically the same thing, right? Like what I'm saying is the. Yeah. The NBA player is saying what this former NBA player said, which is, yeah, man, like probably can't reward you with the starting nod, but cannot say that you ain't out here getting them, them numbers raw or otherwise and should be rewarded for that. Maybe with not a starting nod. Can't do that. But also can't dismiss that that shit's actually happening.
- [43:18]
David Shoemaker
Do you think the coaches and the coaches. Because the coaches do the reserves. Right. Do you think the coaches would put him in the, into a reserve role? Because that would. That's, that's a real interesting, that's a real interesting question. Right? Because I do think like on some level he is deserving of an all star slot.
- [43:36]
Kaz
Yeah. Yeah. Coaches might look at that different than me as the former player looked at it.
- [43:41]
David Shoemaker
Yeah.
- [43:42]
Kaz
Do you know what I mean? The coach could, you know, because again.
- [43:44]
David Shoemaker
Coaches, coaches I feel like are more, are more like wins and losses and just for the good of the game, we can, you know what I mean? They're a bit more mature in that way.
- [43:53]
Kaz
Yeah, no, like, so, yeah, I could totally see the coaches saying like you've, you know. Yeah, coaches are more locked in on what Howard was talking about. And I under. And I understand that and I respect that. Right. Because ultimately it's, it's about, it's about winning. Like we're all trying to win.
- [44:12]
David Shoemaker
Right.
- [44:13]
Kaz
And that's how, you know, coaches, coaches livelihoods aren't tied up into whether La Mall Ball, LaMelo Ball is having career years. Like, yeah, that's not. Coaches hiring or firing isn't going to be, you know, revolving around that. It's going to be revolving around whether his career years can result in wins. And so I understand that. But like as a former player and players who are out there, you know, living it in the moment with him, you know, you just can't discount the fact that it's getting done, if that makes sense. That's, that's, that's all I'm saying.
- [44:48]
David Shoemaker
More from Ziller. This is some other all star politics and other final ballot news. Steph Curry had no problem grabbing the second starting slot in the west back court. And Victor Womenyama's bid to get the start up front was foiled by fellow players. The media put Big Vic and Anthony Davis ahead of LeBron James and Kevin Durant, which combined with women. Yama's fourth place finish in the fan vote set him for the start. If he finished ahead of Durant in the player vote, he didn't come close. Durant and James actually tied for the number two in player vote, which put Durant a quarter point over Wimpanyama. Overall. Had James received one more vote than Durant, KD and Big Vic would have tied and Durant would have started due to the fan vote win. What does that tell you? The players basically took Wimby and was like, nah, this ain't your time, player. We put in the established people there. We're putting Braun and we're going with Bron and KD instead. What do you think about that? What does that say from a player standpoint? Is that jealousy? What does that say from a player standpoint? Is that jealousy? Is that like, hold on, you haven't waited. You need to wait your turn, young fellow. Like, where. What does that say to you?
- [46:00]
Kaz
I mean, you can't discount that.
- [46:02]
David Shoemaker
Players can't be petty.
- [46:04]
Kaz
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, you can't discount that. That could have been the case here or there. But I think by and large, that was not the driving motivational factor for people with Wemby there. I think More than anything, LeBron and KD have been doing it at the level for, for such an incredible amount of time. And a lot of these players modeled their game, you know, after a KD or a LeBron. Like they were their heroes. These were, these were people. Now you get to work with them and play against them, but these are the people that you grew up being, you know, having as your number one. And so, you know, there's a, there's a level of reverence there.
- [46:43]
David Shoemaker
Right.
- [46:44]
Kaz
And so when you vote and it's time to put pen to paper, you might get caught up in that a little bit, but I don't see it as necessarily them trying to make a point about someone having to pay their dues or wait their turn or even, or even jealousy. Now, it might result in you having to wait your turn and in some way, shape or form someone saying that that's you paying your dues. But I don't think that was the motivational factor from guys.
- [47:08]
David Shoemaker
What do you think it would have said had they went with Wimby, the player vote?
- [47:12]
Kaz
What do I think it would have.
- [47:13]
David Shoemaker
Said about the league or about the, the leagues, the people, the voting block of the, of the NBA players? What do you think it would have said about, like, what we see of the current NBA, if Wimy would have gotten that vote over those two pillars of NBA history.
- [47:28]
Kaz
I don't. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't know necessarily what it would have said. You know, more than anything, it would, it would tell you exactly, you know, how guys feel about. If they. About playing against him, I guess, is what I'm saying. So if, if, if, if he was absolutely terrifying to the today's NBA player, then he, he would have probably gotten a vote.
- [47:58]
David Shoemaker
And what, like, if he was just like this? I mean, he is though, right?
- [48:03]
Kaz
I don't know. I mean, I mean, I know he's brilliant. Like, you know he's brilliant. Like, you could see that he's going to be brilliant. But there are some dudes that are just so dope that you're like, oh, damn, we gotta play those moms. Like, God. Oh, like. And I, I think if. If he was like that, if, if enough people saw him like that, he probably would have gotten the vote. That doesn't mean. That doesn't mean that he isn't that. It means that at this point, like, that's not the. That's not the, you know, they're not enough dudes that kind of harbor that kind of feeling towards him, you know, in a way that they might in three or four years from now.
- [48:40]
David Shoemaker
Yeah. See what happens? He's going to make the all star team. Like, I don't have any doubt about that.
- [48:44]
Kaz
Yeah. Oh, yeah. They ain't going.
- [48:45]
David Shoemaker
These coaches.
- [48:46]
Kaz
They ain't going to.
- [48:46]
David Shoemaker
I have doubt that Lamelo is going to. Going to make the all star team just because you put it in the coach's hands. But the coaches are definitely. They know what time it is with women.
- [48:54]
Kaz
Yeah. Who I'm trying to. Yeah. Wemby will not miss it. I'm with you 100%. Absolutely not. And, and, And Lamelo. Yeah, I could see. I could see him. I could see the coaches saying, hey, that's cool, but.
- [49:08]
David Shoemaker
They gonna say no. Oh, God.
- [49:18]
Kaz
You out here wilding, bro. Okay.
- [49:20]
David Shoemaker
Okay, I'm. What do you want me to do anyways? Let's. I don't know if there's anything else to say right now. I don't know if there's any storylines. We'll see what happens. Boston needs to do better. Isaiah's. For Isaiah's sake, you know, this is for that. Anyways, let's go to little segment we like to call ruin of the week. While. While I search for my ruin of the week, I'm gonna go with Raja. What do you got?
- [49:46]
Kaz
Yeah, let's see. I didn't really have one prepared, but let me just go ahead and shoot. Um, I'm going to go with one. Ryan Day. Got to know him a little bit through the recruiting process with D. I realized that he and Chip Kelly both are from a town in New Hampshire, I believe, where one of my former teammates played his prep basketball. And so Tunji Awa Joby is his name, and he was like a 6, 6, 67 Nigerian Golden Gloves boxer who came over and played the four at Boston University and Price at every school record. I think he caught on with the Celtics a little bit, but, like, Tunji was our common thread. So I got to chop, chop it up with, with Coach Day and, and, and, and Coach Kelly a little bit, and I'm giving him the real one because it just obviously won the national championship. But the pressure cooker that is the Ohio State football job, not unlike a lot of other, like, major P4 jobs, but, you know, the losses to Michigan were mounting, especially the last one. I mean, the people calling for his head and calling for his job, and maybe the only way to keep it secure was to make a deep run into the. Into the College Football Playoff and ultimately win it. And he did it. And I'm giving him real one of the week for that. Congrats.
- [51:11]
David Shoemaker
That's what's up. Okay. Yeah. What's the Ohio State like, chant or whatever? It's like, I don't know. O H, I O. Yeah, exactly. Shout out to Columbus. I don't. So I think I'm going to give it to the Raiders right now because I'm really happy with the news. I'm kind of like, cautiously happy with the news of Pete Carroll, which means I'm not going to be happy in a year or so, but I think I'm going to go with it. Yeah, it's. It's the most optimistic I've felt about a coach in a long time. Right.
- [51:47]
Kaz
Yeah, I'm good for you. Yeah, good for you, bro. Don't be afraid. Jump in there. Both feet.
- [51:52]
David Shoemaker
What do you think, though?
- [51:53]
Kaz
Where has he been? That it hadn't been good.
- [51:56]
David Shoemaker
I know when I told you I was a USC fan, who was the coach when I was a USC fan?
- [52:01]
Kaz
Yeah. Can. Can run. Can build and run a program, bro. Like, I mean, I don't, I don't know you guys gonna win the super bowl next year, but I think they're better days ahead for the Raiders.
- [52:09]
David Shoemaker
So excited. 9 and 8 season I'm down for that. Like, bro, like, also, man, it's gonna be good to be on national tv, you know, at least. At least the Har ball game, you know, it's gonna be cool. Right, right, right. This should be good. Isaiah, do you have any thoughts on the Raiders? Higher right now? Being from Boston, do you have any thoughts? Thought it was an opt.
- [52:27]
Kaz
I thought it was, like, best case scenario for the Raiders. No, I didn't think.
- [52:32]
David Shoemaker
I like it better than Ben Johnson. I'm not quite there because Pete's so old. It's a short Runway.
- [52:41]
Kaz
Like you're not getting.
- [52:43]
David Shoemaker
Isaiah's new to the. New to the podcast, but he's already, you know, with the ages, you know, it's.
- [52:49]
Kaz
The only problem is he's old, but.
- [52:50]
David Shoemaker
Other than that, it should turn around, though. It should help turn around the Raiders for sure. Okay. All right.
- [52:55]
Kaz
What are you guys gonna do? What are you guys. What pick you got in the draft, Logan?
- [52:59]
David Shoemaker
I don't know. This is the only good news that has come out of this season. So interesting. Do we have. What is the Raiders pick? It's like five or something.
- [53:07]
Kaz
Let me see. I wonder if that gets you into. Does it get you into.
- [53:10]
David Shoemaker
Oh, number six. Draft. Number six. Picking the draft. So there goes my dream to getting Travis Hunter. So, you know, it's. It's. It's fine. It's fine. You know, it's fine. It is. It is what it is. This is a very somber ruin of the week. I don't know how I feel about it, but, you know, on a. On a good note, I get to see. I get to see our buddy Jomi. He's in town. I get to see him. So I'm very excited about that.
- [53:31]
Kaz
So an original Bridgerton boy.
- [53:34]
David Shoemaker
Bridgerton boy. Bridgerton boys might be back soon, you know. You know, we already. Are you a severance boy right now.
- [53:42]
Kaz
Tell my boy Jomi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're in. We're. We're moving. The wife and I are.
- [53:45]
David Shoemaker
I haven't watched this yet. I haven't seen that second episode yet, so we can't fully talk.
- [53:49]
Kaz
The second season?
- [53:50]
David Shoemaker
No, the second episode of the second season. I haven't seen it.
- [53:53]
Kaz
Oh, the second season. No, we're catching up because we. We're. We're catching up in the first season, and I was gonna download a bunch and like, or the last few and watch them on my flights today, but. But we're saving and we watch that together.
- [54:06]
David Shoemaker
So you want to tell B you said hi or you don't believe it. Still okay.
- [54:10]
Kaz
Huh?
- [54:10]
David Shoemaker
You wanna tell B you said hi?
- [54:12]
Kaz
That still freaks me out, man. I'm like. I'm getting there. It's still kind of freaky for me, man. Such a huge fan, bro.
- [54:19]
David Shoemaker
What's up, homie? Okay, I think that was. That has been another edition of Real Ones. Are you gonna be back on Monday or Tuesday? Are you gonna be back with us?
- [54:31]
Kaz
We'll be back on Tuesday.
- [54:32]
David Shoemaker
Our millions and millions of fans.
- [54:34]
Kaz
Yeah, I'm there. I'm there.
- [54:36]
David Shoemaker
Okay. All right, all right, all right. He's winking. He's winking. He looks like he's a hostage. His fucking camera's all fucked up. He's his wi fi. All right, Ross has a plan to catch. Let's get out of here. That's been another edition of Real Ones. Hey, make sure you guys still tickets available for the live show. Stop playing. We'll see you guys in San Francisco very soon. Raj is confirmed to go there. Me, Raja Howard, mother, Effie Beck. See you on Tuesday. Ah. Ah. All this by Sa.