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The Ringer NBA Show
Who Will Win the Giannis Sweepstakes? Plus, What Will the Offseason Look Like in Laker Land?
01:22:36
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- [00:00]
Unknown
You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. Even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
- [00:49]
Logan Murdoch
You.
- [00:49]
Sam Amick
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- [01:20]
Logan Murdoch
What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck there. Sam Amick is with us. We were laughing at Howard because he looks like he's at a public access show right now. He looks like he's doing a. Doing a. You're doing a callbank. What are you. Where are you at right now, Howard? What's going on?
- [01:36]
Howard Beck
Before you, like, start, like, just mocking everything with the surroundings here. I'm an Amy Poehler's fucking studio, dude. This is Amy Poehler's studio.
- [01:47]
Logan Murdoch
Shit. Have a little respect. Shit. Oh, Michelle Obama was just in there, right? Did they. Michelle Obama. Then they. They packed it up so you can get in there, right? Okay, my bad.
- [01:57]
Howard Beck
Like, just behind this curtain behind me is. Is Amy Poehler's backdrop. Prove it.
- [02:02]
Logan Murdoch
Prove it right now. I don't believe you. I don't believe you. Tear that shit down. What we got? I don't.
- [02:06]
Howard Beck
I don't.
- [02:07]
Logan Murdoch
I don't.
- [02:07]
Howard Beck
I don't think. I don't think Bell and the rest of the production crew here would appreciate me, like, yanking on the curtains, but trust me, this is Amy Poehler's studio.
- [02:16]
Sam Amick
Our.
- [02:17]
Howard Beck
Our esteemed colleague, frankly. This is like, she's our like, she's like our co worker. It's like, you know, coming to the barbecue and stuff.
- [02:24]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, it's real celebrity shit, Sam. You know what I mean? That's what we do over here at Spotify.
- [02:28]
Sam Amick
I mean, I was just. Howard, like, since you and I are the older dudes on the pod, like, Logan's not going to remember this reference. Remember the old Conan o' Brien segment when. When. When he would go spotlight to the face and. In the year 2000.
- [02:42]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Right? You mean before Logan was born? Yeah.
- [02:45]
Sam Amick
Yeah. Yes, that's.
- [02:47]
Logan Murdoch
You guys want to know how old I was in 2000? Do you guys really want to know?
- [02:52]
Sam Amick
Please tell us, Logan. Tell us how accomplished you are at your young age.
- [02:56]
Logan Murdoch
I was. I was entering second grade in the fall of 2000, so.
- [03:02]
Howard Beck
Killing me.
- [03:02]
Logan Murdoch
Hell, no. No, I remember the. I remember that There was the Y2K was, like, a thing. My parents were scared and we fell asleep at, like, 9, so we didn't have to go through, like, our. Our. Our doom death. And then we woke up and everything was fine.
- [03:16]
Sam Amick
It was fine.
- [03:17]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. And everything worked out, so we were good. Anyways, speaking of doom deaths, I guess. I don't know. Let's talk NBA, man. We got Sam here. Let's just go right into it. We already talked about we. We. You can go to another podcast to just get the full recap of what's going on with the Nuggets in the Oklahoma City Thunder. We're here to talk news and offseason and Evergreen for the off season. Let's start with Giannis Adetic Kumbo, Sam, because, you know, you seem to be a guy that is locked in on everything Giannis related. I'm gonna start by saying this real quick, and me and you have both reported on this, since this is both of our backyards. It doesn't seem at this point that the Golden State warriors are in the Giannis sweepstakes. I don't think that they will be necessarily. Not that they don't necessarily want to, but more so they just don't have the assets to get him. And I think that, like, there was a big brouhaha. You wrote about it. I wrote about it. About Giannis and Steph hanging out in the All Star Game. There was a. At least from what I heard, I'm sure you heard the same thing. There was a feeling that Giannis was very, very intrigued by the idea of one day being a teammate of Steph's Curry. There was at least a feeling of, you know, that Giannis wanted to play with Steph in the very near future and be teammates with him. At least that was the impression that a lot of officials got during that soiree. Talk about the warriors chances and then I want to give, I want to, I want to see the floor to you really quickly, Sam. Who are the. We know the teams are San Antonio, Houston and okc, or teams that, like, are just in the mix in trying in the mix for maybe his services, should he actually officially request a trade, which is a good, interesting note there. But talk about the warriors point of view and then the three teams point of view and where they stand in the sweepstakes of Giannis Adeta Kumbo, who, by the way, has not yet officially requested a trade.
- [05:19]
Sam Amick
No, and I appreciate you saying that last part. We can ride it until the cows come home. It feels like the world has already overlooked that part. You know what I mean? Like, and before I even dove into your question, and the answer will also give context that while I'm, I'm, I'm all in on the idea that, yes, to a degree, it is the summer of Giannis and might continue to be so for anybody to act like this is the first time we've had questions about Giannis's future in Milwaukee, you know, we're forgetting all the subplots here. Every time he had a contract, every time they fell short of the championship, I'm going to put the over under at three. I don't remember exactly how many there were. Like, Giannis has, has never been Mr. 10 Toes down in Milwaukee, no matter what it has been in the off season. I'm going to talk to John Horst, the gm. I'm going to talk to my people, see what I think. And so this has been something they've been going through for the better part of a decade. They traded for Jrue Holiday to help that cause. They traded for Damian Lillard to help that cause. So now here we are. To me, in terms of, you know, how this is going to go and how the landscape looks, it's those teams you mentioned. I mean, we can, I guess, run through them real quick. To me, Houston, you know, we reported this last week. They're, you know, 100% going to look hard at it if it is a possibility. He is perhaps the only guy that, you know, probably on top of their list. When you talk about age, talent, timeline, all of that stuff, all the talk about Kevin Durant in Houston, Kevin's age, Kevin's timeline, I, I real confident saying that that is not the direction they're looking right now. Even guys that have kind of unofficially fallen off their list. Devin Booker was on their short list before, but he had a bad year last year. But Houston for sure will be looking hard at Giannis if he is available. The. The San Antonio option, obviously, is a basketball fan's dream, potentially. Just that idea of Giannis being with Wemby now, that number two pick, changes the calculus, you know, even better for the spurs purposes if they want to dive in. Who else am I forgetting there, Logan.
- [07:33]
Logan Murdoch
That you mentioned Oklahoma City.
- [07:34]
Sam Amick
Yeah, I mean, that one's. You know, that's the fun part of the playoffs, is that that is evolving in real time in terms of, you know, Sam Presti and the Thunder. There's just no way for them to know how they feel about this current group just yet, because we got to see what happens on Sunday, and if they survive, we got to see from there. If they go on to a championship run, that changes the way they look at their team versus falling out in the second round. But they've got the assets, they've got, you know, the optionality, if you will. You know, the Warriors. It's funny, I liked your story. I noticed that you wrote the. That anecdote from Steph's party at All Star Weekend, too. I will tell you, in all of my years doing this, that was. I was there in person. So. So that was not sourced material. That was me watching Giannis walk up the stairs.
- [08:20]
Logan Murdoch
Wait, real quick, real quick. I just want to say real quick, I saw Sam. And you're going to appreciate this from the call bank in New York, Howard. I remember seeing. I remember seeing Sam right after. Was it Game four? Game four? Because that was the last game in the Bay, right? And I remember, like, having that, like, you know, when you have something in the back pocket that you could just throw out real quick, right? That, you know, that you have in your story that you're about to have, right? And I saw Sam writing about Giannis and then I read his story the next day because I knew mine was coming out Wednesday. And I was like, God damn it. I was like, God damn it. He did it. He did it. He wrote it.
- [09:03]
Sam Amick
It's funny, I wrote. I forget how I worded it. I wrote like a watered down version of it like a month ago. And then I was like, I forget, I'm gonna share the all. All the tea. But it was like, I mean, yes, like, you know, it's. Steph's party is right next to Chase center at the Splash Restaurant. And bar that they have there. It's a Warriors event.
- [09:22]
Logan Murdoch
You're welcome. Raymond Ritter.
- [09:23]
Sam Amick
Yes. And it's almost midnight, and. And it's Giannis and his wife Mariah. They. They come to the party, they go up the stairs, and the room kind of stops. Like, I'm actually literally talking to Joe lacob in that moment. And it was pretty entertaining to see Joe kind of turn and start having, you know, kind of hearts in his eyes as he looks up the stairs. But that being said, the warriors, you know, and my colleagues at the Athletic just put this out yesterday. All signs point to them being all in on the Jimmy Butler era, that the major changes are not the focus right now. They want to kind of build around their new Big Three, so we'll see where it goes. Milwaukee is going to try to sell Giannis on, basically, you know, what we'll call a gap year that my. My buddy Mark Eric name wrote the other day at our place. The idea that you could be an MVP candidate, you know, have individual accolades for a year and let us figure the roster out rather than jumping ship.
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Logan Murdoch
That's not a. That's not a great sort of great recruiting pitch, right, Howard?
- [10:26]
Howard Beck
No, I mean, you're. He's what, 30, 31. Like the idea on a gap year when you've. When you're. When you're on the other side of 30, like, you don't have. I mean, Giannis has been in the league long enough now and seen enough of these, like, little, you know, jagged turns in the road. Right? We, you know, Sam alluded to it earlier where he kind of, you know, says something a little passive aggressive or whatever, and the next thing you know, Drew Holiday magically appears on the roster. And then there's another one of these moments a couple summers ago when our friend Tanya Ganguly at the New York Times, you know, had the interview with. With Giannis where he started to allude to, well, if we can't win championships here, then maybe we'll. And the next thing you know, Dam Lillard magically appears on the roster. So, like, Giannis is smart. He's been around this league a long time now. It's hard to believe how. How. What, is he 12 years in or whatever? I think he gets it, and I think if he had the confidence in John Horst, who has, of course, been the GM there for most of his career now, I, I could. I could conceptually see it if they could lay out, here's what's going to happen this season. But here's where it will leave us for the possibilities for next year, like maybe. And Giannis has expressed just enough affinity for Milwaukee over the years that. That I could kind of see it. But my suspicion is not that. My suspicion is this is the summer where it is going to break. And, you know, Sam, you said it like Logan, you said like, there's been no, there's been nothing yet. Literally nothing has happened with. Between Giannis and the Bucks that anybody knows of definitively. There's no trade demand. But, Sam, I'll put this to you, like, from what you gather of the situation, and you know Giannis pretty well, you know that organization well. I've always viewed this as when you have a player like Giannis or when Portland had Dame, even if you think the best path forward for the organization is, you know what, we hit a block, we hit a fork in the road, we'll proactively trade him. It's really hard to do. My general principle is you don't trade the generational superstar, the face of the.
- [12:24]
Logan Murdoch
Franchise type unless you're Nico Harrison.
- [12:28]
Howard Beck
Unless you're Nico Harrison. Nobody else should do this.
- [12:32]
Sam Amick
He knew he had Cooper. It was in the back pocket.
- [12:36]
Howard Beck
Stop. You don't do it in general, Nico Harrison being the lone exception in the history of the universe, you don't do it unless the guy says, it's time, I'm out. And then if you can't talk him back in, you say, okay, let's work together on a trade. Giannis hasn't done that yet, to our knowledge. He's passive aggressively hinted at the possibility, but he has not said, I want out. Is there any situation or any possibility, Sam, do you think that John Horst and the Bucks would proactively trade him? Or is this going to be like 99.9% of the other situations like this where it's, you gotta wait until the player comes to you and says, it's time, let's go.
- [13:16]
Sam Amick
Yeah, no, I think it's the latter for sure. Howard. There, there's. You know, it's funny being close with. I mentioned Eric Name, our very good Bucks beat writer, and he's from the area. We have an editor who I think you guys know, Rob Peterson with Milwaukee Roots. Those are my two kind of Milwaukee filters lately. And it keeps cracking me up because, like, if you talk to those guys and get the sense from Bucks fans, there's this idea that it's like, well, unless you're getting Wilt back, then you're not trading on it. You know what I mean? Like, the fans don't it's going to.
- [13:48]
Logan Murdoch
Be really hard to get Wilt B in a trade in 2025.
- [13:55]
Sam Amick
And it's just not something they don't want to let this man leave town. The fans and I think the organization is reflecting that mentality. And it's funny not to hit the rewind button, Howard, but the gap year concept, I'm curious how you see this, because one of the comparisons that has been made is, and you covered, you know, the prime of Kobe's career is, you know, there were stretches of Kobe's career where he was one foot out the door, almost two feet, and then he came back in and had to be patient and give it some time. And then they, they got power or whatever the next move was. You know, same thing Logan was. Steph, like, Steph has had moments now. It's easier to have a gap year when you got four titles or, you know, three or four at the time. That's the thing with Giannis, is that Giannis is so great that having One championship at 30 is falling short of where he was hoping to be. But that being said, you know, that is the Bucs vantage point. That is their pitch and, you know, the roster. This is maybe a slice of good news for Bucs fans. My feeling and my sense in talking to people, Giannis is not all the way out on this roster. He thinks the talent is actually better than what they showed in the playoff series against Indiana. I've even heard that, that he feels like the Pacer style of play and how fast they played and how aggressive they were, that the Bucks should have had more of that and that there's X's and O's, things that he thinks could make this group better. So there's these little tidbits where you kind of wonder if maybe they can hold on to him. But to your initial question, like, yeah, the Bucks are not, they're not doing anything unless he raises his hand.
- [15:35]
Howard Beck
And I just want to throw in real quick the quote that he gave to Tanya Ganguly a couple summers ago where Giannis said, you've got to see the dynamics. He's talking about whether to. Whether he was going to extend. And this is the summer before he ended up extending again. At the end of the day, I feel like all my teammates know in the organization knows that I want to win a championship. As long as we're on the same page with that and you show me and we go together to win a championship, I'm all for it. The moment I feel like, oh, yeah, we're trying to rebuild. And then he pauses and then whatever. Like that. Like, that's the passive aggressive. And it's not even passive. Like, I feel bad even putting in those terms. Any superstar who has either not won titles or in this case is won one and still feels like they need more, they want more, which is what we would all hope the Stars would want. It's fair to always keep the pressure on. You should. And quotes like this, comments like this in a public sphere helps keep the pressure on. Not that the front office doesn't know that they have that obligation. Anyway. John Horst doesn't need to be reminded. Ownership doesn't need to be reminded. But when Giannis says those things, it does give you reason to believe that if the Bucks could not show the roadmap back to contention, then it. Then, then, yeah, it's logical that he would take the next step and say, okay, it's time. And I think Dame's injury and the fact that he's going to lose an entire season, and by the time he comes back, he's what, 35? I mean, to me, that was like. That was the final nail. Yeah. Like, I don't see how you for sure, how, how does this era bounce back from that with no Dame for a year and the clock ticking on Giannis.
- [17:11]
Sam Amick
Just. Can I jump in and add two things? Because that, that all lands really well. The interview with Tanya, less than a month later, they had Damian Lillard. So that pressure absolutely had a domino effect. They had Dame, something that Giannis wanted. Now, the other thing that we've reported is that if Dame had not gotten hurt, there were going to be conversations this summer about him getting moved. There was a mutual thing like, do we think this is working? You know, and I don't know what would have happened, but that was potentially a pathway for the Bucks to move Dame. Yeah, to move Dame and say to Giannis, hey, you know, he's still an All Star, 25 7, you know, high level player. We could get this guy and that guy add some depth. Really. The truth is, what we also learned this year, Giannis kind of loves being Magic Johnson. You know what I mean? Like, he wants as much as he does love name. Their relationship is good. Like, Giannis is at his happiest when he has the ball in his hands. So I think they could have sold him on the idea of moving Dame for more, you know, depth, more role players get stronger around him, but that pathway is eliminated because of the injury. The other thing that I think I. I'm overlooking here and we should add to the conversation. You know, it's all speculation, but as we look at these different teams that could be in the mix, I'm fascinated by the Knicks situation because, you know, we'll see what happens tonight and their Game six, they're having a fantastic year, but to me, if they fall short anything less than a title, and in terms of knowing a little bit about how Giannis kind of sees the league, you know, I think for sure that if he raised his hand, you would see Leon Rose in the Knicks taking a really hard look at that as a possible. I mean, they've got the depth on their roster, they've got the types of guys that the Bucks would, I think, you know, have to look at in, you know, a possible deal. The Knicks, to me, are pretty interesting.
- [19:00]
Logan Murdoch
So with that, I got two questions on that, on that front. So one question that you brought up was a really good point, was what Giannis wants offensively, right. Like him wanting the ball in his hands, wanting to be a point center or a point for whatever you want to call it. I'll ask this question first. How does that educate which teams has an advantage at this point? Right. In terms of roster? Right. When you look down the line, I mean, I think about San Antonio, where you have a twin tower effect, right. And it seems like they would be able to compliment each other well, as opposed to maybe in Oklahoma City. Who has the bar? None has the best package to offer in general for Giannis. Adeta Kumbo. When you talk about the combination of young guys on rookie salaries and you have just a boatload of picks that they have, how would that educate where Giannis goes? Does he have a say where he would want to go, packages be damned?
- [19:58]
Howard Beck
Yes.
- [19:58]
Sam Amick
I mean, he has a say on all of it. And I think your question is. Is very relevant because let's say it's a Knicks thing, right, where they want to make that one last final upgrade. Well, you're not moving off Jalen Brunson. That guy's a Knicks legend at this point. So they talk about usage and. And who. Who's going to have the ball? Jalen's going to have the ball a lot.
- [20:20]
Logan Murdoch
Maybe that's not the same with Shea. Right. You know, same with Shakes.
- [20:23]
Sam Amick
But then you look at Houston, the Houston one's fascinating because, you know, and again, we're just early speculation here, but if there was a Rockets discussion to be had, they are well aware that the idea of, like, Shangun and Giannis playing together is not a Great fit, you know, and. And so I, I would anticipate in that scenario, Senguin going back to Milwaukee, then, you know, I think that maybe has more possibility right now. The ball is in Fred Van Vliet's hands to a lesser degree, Jalen Green's hands. There is more of a job opening in that regard in Houston than there is in some of those other spots. And the thing, the moment when I learned this season about where Giannis's head was at the most on this topic is I don't know if you guys remember the. He had this. This kind of quirky quote about when Dan was out about the cookie jar, and he tried to make this little forced analogy about how it's like when you're a kid and, and, you know, you have a cookie jar in the house, if you're an only child, like, that cookie jar is. Is all yours, and you can put your hands in it whenever you want, get whatever kind of cook you want. If you got a bunch of siblings, then everybody's going to kind of like, you know, be a little more selfish and, you know, treat the cookie jar a little bit differently. It was a weird way of framing it. It was something that was talked about in buck circles that kind of informed his mentality. And, yeah, I think it's something that. That should not be forgotten going forward.
- [21:51]
Howard Beck
I think one of the fascinating pieces of this here is, you know, you've got, you know, first there's the Giannis aspect of this. Does he want out? Is he going to ask out when we. If and when we get to that point? Then it becomes, okay, where does he want to go? Does he have a list? Some cities were suggested to me and I mentioned on Zach's podcast, and it got aggregated to the nth degree, and so I'm not going to repeat them.
- [22:17]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my God.
- [22:20]
Sam Amick
Aggregation. Here it is, Logan. Here it is, Logan.
- [22:24]
Howard Beck
I'm not doing it again. But then it's a matter of what does Milwaukee want back? Also, right? Like, Giannis's preferred destinations are the first thing, right? Like, because he can. It's not that he can nix a deal. He doesn't have a no trade clause, all that stuff. But you, you're always going to try to do right by the star, and you're going to try to work with him on it. So chances are wherever he lands is going to be somewhere that he wants to land. But, you know, I think he will try to be a good partner in this, too, which means that he'll work with Milwaukee on making sure that they are made whole to the extent that they can be. So the question I keep asking is, well, what is, what does Milwaukee want out of this? We don't know. Do they want like, they, they have no control over their own draft picks for the most part. So tanking is not a great path for them. A tear down is not a great path for them. So do they want players immediately? Like, the idea of like a Jalen Green Alpern Shangoon return that helps them stay afloat in the near term and be at least competitive seems like a good idea. Plus obviously the Rockets are a candidate for this too, because they've got a shit ton of draft picks that they can trade. And the Bucks do need draft capital. But what do they want? Do they want primarily draft capital maybe at the expense of winning right away? Do they want functional, competitive players that they can either flip or just tread water with? Do they think, no, we're trading a generational star, we need at least a star or two back. Maybe, maybe not at the same level type of star, but we need star type players back. Like that's the thing where until you get to that point, I don't think we can actually answer that question. And the answer to that question helps us then determine like, okay, are the Knicks with an offer of an anobi and Bridges in the running or not? Is that enough? You know, the Knicks don't have picks to trade. The Nets have a bunch of picks to trade, but don't really have a ton in terms of players to trade. And if they traded them, then Giannis has nobody to compete, you know, next to. So like, it's, it's complicated in that regard. It's not like you can just say like the entire field is open, teams have different asset groupings to offer. And like, that's why Oklahoma, so fascinating, right? Because if the Thunder fall short of a championship and they've got a shit ton of extra players, they got, their rotation is so incredibly deep, they've got more picks than anybody in the history of draft picks. Like they, they could make a really compelling offer, but you don't do that if you've just won a championship, most likely, if you haven't, everything's on the table. And they certainly would be the most, the most alluring for the Bucks, but would they be for Giannis? So like, I just think, like, there's so many variables here. It's really hard to game out as we sit here in mid, maybe power.
- [25:01]
Sam Amick
Just to put a finer point on that the Bucks best hope here is that every scenario that you are kind of mapping out and that comes across their desk paints a picture to Giannis of, hey, we get it, you know, we love you. We're always going to love you forever. If you go to this other team, you know, we're still going to retire your jersey, build the statue, all that stuff, but you are looking at a being part of a six seed on the other side as well. You know what I mean? Like. Like, they want every scenario to gut the other team. And John Horst is going to go for blood here. I'm telling you. Like, he just got a new extension. He has the organization's backing. John is not going to just be trying to be on good terms with Giannis. He's trying to do right by the Bucks. And that means that if every scenario in play, you know, leaves the other team so gutted that Giannis might not actually be in that much better of a situation, then maybe that's where he looks at the room and says, all right, let me stay put.
- [25:59]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [26:01]
Logan Murdoch
How long do you think this drags out, Sam?
- [26:04]
Sam Amick
I think it'll be a while. I mean, like, Howard, like, could we.
- [26:08]
Logan Murdoch
Could we go if I want to? If he requests a trade, is it going to be like, one of those, like, those dreaded, like, August trades or something like that? Could it go that long? Could it be.
- [26:17]
Howard Beck
Don't ruin our vacation, Giannis.
- [26:20]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, bro. That's going to be. That's going to be them.
- [26:24]
Sam Amick
I got Mid July, Hawaii plan. So that's probably when it's going to happen, I think. I mean, we have. The history tells us how this goes with Giannis, and again, it's. Because this is not the first time he has a pattern of. It's, you know, meeting with Giannis, his agents, his, you know, two agents, and then they sit down, they talk about how the Bucks see the future. If Giannis heard something he loved in that meeting, then that would be a wrap, and he says, I'm good. Chances are that doesn't happen, you know, then it's going to be, no, this is. We need more. Probably have a second meeting. You know, I think he gives them a long run way to have that discussion. And then if. If all options have been exhausted and he still doesn't feel good about his current lot in basketball life, then comes potentially a trade request. And then, you know, you've got the sweepstakes from there. But I do think it's going to take a while.
- [27:20]
Logan Murdoch
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- [29:07]
Unknown
This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula. One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? ° listened. They admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent. And thank God. You've gotta love when a brand can own its mistakes. And it's in Walmart, Target and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers the original degree.
- [29:50]
Logan Murdoch
Cool.
- [29:51]
Unknown
Rush is back and it smells like victory for all of us. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know you're totally obsessed? Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes.
- [30:19]
Logan Murdoch
I want to go to it. Go back to the Western Conference. Want to talk about a team that we always talk about on this. On this program, The Los Angeles Lakers, a team that you have been written a lot of great shit on. They are also in a bit of a. It's a weird off season, right? You know, LeBron is kind of. He's. He's pushing to 41 right now. You got Luca coming in. There's LeBron's injury, there is Luca's shape, there's the JJ redic angle. There's so many things that are going on in Laker land right now. How are you think they're approaching this off season? I mean, I know they need a front court guy. They do need some roster construction. Where do you see with. With the Lakers right now? What are. How are they approaching the next few months?
- [31:04]
Sam Amick
Yeah, it is a weird time because when they made that trade, you know, it's almost like I feel like we in the media are somewhat to blame for the. The wonky conversation around them, because when they made the trade, everybody seemingly said, well, Luke is amazing, but this is not. The roster built, you know, intentionally around him, so expectations were low, but then they played well. And then the defense was actually pretty good in the first stretch, which was pretty counterintuitive and surprising. And. And so then expectations skyrocketed to the point where it was like anything short of a conference finals appearance was a disappointment. And then they ended the way they did, you know, and so now it's almost like even the Lakers themselves don't know how to feel about their season now. Their priorities, obviously. So the LeBron thing has got to get clarified. You know, certainly likely to be back, but in what capacity is he going to pick up his player option for next year and head off into the sunset and retire after that? Because he going to want to talk to the Lakers about an extension that is not clear. You know, as of my last conversations with the people involved, like, they don't. The Lakers don't have clarity about what he wants to do. More importantly, for their future. You've got the Lucas situation. On Aug. 2, he's eligible for a massive extension. They, the Lakers are, you know, they're ready to give him whatever structure and form of an extension he's comfortable with, but they would obviously love. And number one priority this summer is like some kind of commitment from him beyond his current contract. Because when they made this trade, you guys know this, you know, it, it. This part always gets skipped over. Like the reason, I mean, this does not absolve Nico Harrison at all from, you know, how little he got in that trade. But the Lakers pitch that actually worked was to the Mavs. Like, listen, we have no promises from this dude that he's going to stay with us beyond his current deal. And as a result, you're not getting both of our first round picks. You're getting one and you're not getting, you know, somebody like Austin Reaves. And so that is why the deal looked the way it did because they legitimately, they've been through this before. When Dwight Howard came their way, you know, whatever year that was, 2012, you know, Dwight ended up bouncing to Houston after getting traded to the Lakers. So that's number two. And then the roster, you said Logan, they need a big, you know, we saw last year some of the, the guys they were shopping for and trying to land and, and obviously the rescinded trade in Charlotte. So we'll see what they do.
- [33:45]
Howard Beck
Sam, on this. Like, I know, like, we have to. It's our job to speculate and note, you know, oh, well, Luka doesn't have to re. Luke doesn't have to resign. You know, LeBron's got his option. All this stuff, like, give us the odds on like, I got two pieces of this. The first is, is there any scenario in which Luca and LeBron are not on the opening night roster of the Los Angeles Lakers? Like, any, any chance at all?
- [34:08]
Sam Amick
I mean, not. And Lucas for sure on the opening night roster. I. And again, to be clear, his people, his camp continue to share nothing but positivity about his Lakers experience. And so the vibe there is good. It's just a matter of guys in how they want to handle their contracts. The LeBron thing, I'm in the minority. I mean, yes, I think he's going to be back. I. I just think that, you know, near the tail end of the season, in the early part of the Lakers off season, you know, I did hear a few things that made me go, huh, okay, like, in terms of how LeBron was feeling, I mean, his concern over this roster is. I mean, for one, he's, he's had it in perpetuity, right? Like every year we write about how he's not happy roster. But the part where I'm in the minority is the night that he gave his, you know, when they were eliminated and he gave his press conference and he was asked what he thought this roster needed and he made the joke about how. Well, I'm not saying shit because the last guy who said something got traded to Dallas. Everybody laughed and everybody took it as a punchline. I did not like, to me it was, it was humor. You know, I was, you know, packaging authenticity with humor. And it was real because I think he's had real frustrations about, you know, the roster itself and has those going forward. Do I think that's enough to, to get him to go talk to Savannah and actually leave LA and, and try something else at the tail end of his career? Probably not. I have thought about Dallas as a place where, you know, we know that for one, I had a couple of people again, joke about, well, you know, maybe he misses his buddy AD and wants to go jump out there. I mean, that was something. Logan, I think you might have reported on it as well that the Mavs this summer we're going to potentially keep going down, you know, this ad type of road, like, you know, a 30 plus Nike superstar type player, the, the Kyrie ad, LeBron, Durant, whoever it might be, and try to accelerate what they were doing. Well, now the, the Cooper flag stuff, I think changes that landscape. So very long winded answer to your question, Howard. Like, very likely that Luke and LeBron are there opening night, just trying to figure it out.
- [36:24]
Howard Beck
Yeah, how do I ask that? Because, sorry, real quick, like, the second piece of it was just that we suddenly, as soon as the Cavs crashed and burned, it immediately became this umpteenth version of the, oh, maybe LeBron back to Cleveland. And I just, I'm not, I just, I'm not seeing it right. Like there's, you know, LeBron's family being settled in LA. He gets to play with Bronny now. Like maybe, you know, maybe you could, you could argue that he checked the box and it happened and he got his year with Bronnie and now he could leave. Or maybe, maybe he insists on bringing Bronnie with him, I don't know. But it just that the Cleveland thing seems far fetched. LeBron leaving LA at all at this stage seems far fetched. I have to believe that just the very fact of Luca Being there kind of re. Energizes him and gives him the more of an optimistic view. Like, yes, they have more building to do around those two. There's still a lot of work to be done on that roster. But the very fact of having another primary elite generational scorer, ball handler. Handler, playmaker type next to him gives LeBron everything he needs to extend his career and keep. And, you know, keep competing at a high level. It's like, I don't see the purpose of leaving at this point. It's. It sounds far.
- [37:33]
Sam Amick
Minimum power. I'll say this, like, even if he stays put, assuming he does stay put at minimum. I guess what I'm sharing is my opinion is that what I have learned in the sense of the dynamics between LeBron and Lakers is that it's like, it's just. It's fine. Like, it is a marriage of convenience.
- [37:49]
Howard Beck
Sure.
- [37:50]
Sam Amick
You know, that element has been kind of firmed in the past year or so where I. I thought mistakenly that the LUCA trade might spark this kind of, like, renewed sense of. Of kind of harmony within their group and. No, it's a business decision. Like, he gets their platform, they get, you know, the spotlight and the accolades and. And the winning to, you know, to a degree that comes with him. But in terms of that relationship, you know, like, that's. That's been the driving force behind me wondering about some of these other situations is because it's just. It's fine. As opposed to great.
- [38:28]
Logan Murdoch
To that point, Sam, how is LeBron dealing with the fact that. Because, I mean, the reason why he, either in front of the scenes or behind the scenes, always has this indecision around this time. It's for leverage. We all know that. Right. He wants to have leverage over a roster and over a front office in the best way that he can. He's made a career of it. How was LeBron, to your knowledge, adjusting to the fact that he doesn't have as much leverage as he said, maybe two, three years ago, especially with this being about to be Lucas team? How is he adjusting to that fact of, like, it's not the same relationship as it was when LeBron first got to LA? It's not the same relationship that LeBron had with the Cavaliers. It's not the same relationship that he tried to have with the Miami Heat. Is he adjusting to that? Okay. Is he adjusting to the fact that he doesn't have the most leverage in the room at all times? And by extension, his team doesn't have the most leverage that they're used to having.
- [39:27]
Sam Amick
Yeah, I mean, I can't, I certainly can't speak for him, but I think you're asking the right question because I think, you know, if you take out the off court components, the business advantages that come with la, the family ties in la, Bronnie, his, his entire family being there and enjoying life in la. If you're just talking about your question, Logan, like, and if you pick LeBron up and you put him in a place like Dallas, he is now just, he's one of the guys and he's on a, a fairly even level with everybody. He's a very smart guy. He knows that with the Lakers right now, it literally is a little bit more like, hey, like, Brian, we love you. You, you can stick around for a while if you'd like. But Luca is the future. Like he's. And they're not really running from that. They don't try to sugarcoat that or, or hide from it. You know, he is the number one priority within the organization and, and you know, LeBron is, is somebody who is finishing out his career if he decided to retire tomorrow. The truth is they probably look at that flexibility and that, you know, and honestly probably get a little excited about what they might be able to do, but they're not stupid. He's. He's a legend. He's. He's in the goat conversation. You know, if he retires a Laker like I think he will, he's going to get some version of the, the Kobe, you know, retirement tour treatment down the stretch. But, but yeah, the part that you're hitting on is like, I, I don't know, I don't know how he feels about that, but he's smart enough to know that on the, you know, in the pecking order, he's not the guy at the top anymore.
- [40:59]
Logan Murdoch
Welcome back to Pack Watch with Zomi, who is ready to make you feel worse about your team than you already do.
- [41:04]
Jomi Adenaron
What's up, real ones, you know who it be? Show me back for another edition of Pack Watch. And we are getting the Golden State warriors up out of here. And I knew when I needed to do this that to stand by the printer, right? Because all I'm spitting is facts. Let me tell you something right now. I know Steph was hurt. I can understand, right we're there. But let's just look at it, shall we? This is fake Demon FC right here. Jimmy Butler. Oh, he the man. Y' all had Dwayne Wade liking pictures, calling him a fraud dog. Dwayne Wade, the nicest Guy we know UD went on tv. I know, I know Pat out there. Like, it's not so green on the other side, is it? Jonathan Kaminga, they calling him Mini Martin because his game come and goes.
- [41:52]
Sam Amick
You feel me?
- [41:53]
Jomi Adenaron
Like, it's not all there. And Draymond, don't. Oh, don't get me started on Draymond, bro. When it was Dillon Brooks, Jalen Green, Van Fleet, he had all the smoke right now, Julius round in front of you. Let me be soft.
- [42:05]
Sam Amick
Let me be.
- [42:06]
Jomi Adenaron
Man, listen, there's a lot of talk, a lot of talk for a team going home in the second round.
- [42:11]
Logan Murdoch
That's all I'm saying.
- [42:12]
Jomi Adenaron
That's all I'm saying. We packing them up.
- [42:17]
Logan Murdoch
And that was Jomi Adenaron with the pack watch. We'll stay in a Western Conference with you. I want to talk about it. We. Not necessarily talk about the. The series of OKC in Denver, but I do want to talk about Denver right now and how they're approaching their off season. Right. Like, you talk to me and Raja, we were definitely not on board with firing the coach in GM in the middle or at the end of the season. Howard was. Was good with it. Howard was. Said it was. It was a very shrewd move, and, you know, it should be studied for years to come. But how are they approaching this off season? Right? Like, is there any new news with the. The coach? I know Adelman's doing fairly well in a postseason setting. Right. No matter what happens whenever they play Game seven. What. What's. What's the. The temperature in Denver like going into this off season with so much uncertainty, other than Jokic being on the opening night roster next year.
- [43:19]
Sam Amick
No, it's such an interesting, unique situation. I mean, the temperature is good. They are. They are loving the fact that, you know, not. Not to go on Team Howard here, Logan, but that their unorthodox move late in the regular season. You know, Josh Crockey, the owner. Owner, son. Son of Stan Crocky and team president. You know, Josh is the one, you know, at the top of the list of people who made this decision. And I've gotten to know Josh a little bit, and I, you know, it's. His decision, to me is so fascinating because he's like a boss who basically, you know, got busy elsewhere, wasn't keeping track of his shop as much as he should have, and by the time it came back, the vibes were bad. Yeah. And to his credit, and I tweeted this at the time, like, man, he did like a 40 minute press conference where he just owned all of it and was very transparent about it. But it was just like, he got back and was like, oh, damn it. Like, you know, this is partly my fault, but now that it looks like this, I've got to make these changes.
- [44:25]
Logan Murdoch
It was Childish Gambino, like, in that gift where he comes in with the pizza and the whole room is on fire. That's what. That's exactly what happened in Denver, right?
- [44:33]
Sam Amick
And, like. And now he's getting, you know, kind of validated because I've been around the team a fair amount lately. I know everybody involved really well, and, like, the vibes are really good. And. And, you know, a lot of this has been reported, but it's like, you know, even. It wasn't even a matter of, like, people having to be on Team Calvin or team Michael. It was the fact that, like, at minimum, the players knew that the people in charge were not getting along, and that just wasn't ideal. Then you had, you know, players who felt like, you know, Malone was making certain decisions based on, you know, players that were tied more to Booth than him. Whatever. It was unhealthy. So David Adelman comes in. As we often see with coaches, it's like he represents, you know, it swings the other way, right? Like, his personality is different than Michael's. His style is different than the previous coaches, and it's worked. He's a player's coach. He's made some mistakes, but he owns them. You know, Ben Tenzer is the interim GM at the. You know, a guy who's been with the organization for 16 years and is trying to empower and support and be pretty selfless with what he's doing. It's kind of. It's gone from, like, too much ego before getting in the way to everybody putting their ego on the side. And really the empowering part for. For, you know, one guy more than anybody else is joker. And. And what we're learning is that this dude is actually a pretty damn good leader. And it feels like he's elevated, you know, filled that void once some of this messiness got out of the way. So the vibes are good. I don't know what they're going to do. You know, if I had to handicap it, I think David is in a very good position to remain absolutely. On the front office front. I can share. What I have not been able to figure out is it does not appear that Josh Kroenke has really kind of done any legwork on. On a. On a. You know, on A GM search, and I'm not even trying. That's not a criticism. I think it's revealing because I, I, right now I feel like a world does exist where he looks at the current group and basically just says, job well done. You know, you guys fix the vibe. You guys are qualified. I'm gonna go forward with you. Now. We should also say for context, the Nuggets, you know, pretty notoriously don't feel like paying a ton for, you know, front office and even coach, so that would be convenient if they just kind of forge ahead. But, you know, I am starting to wonder, you know, maybe Ben gets the job. You know, there's a guy in Minnesota, Matt Lloyd is number two behind Tim Conley and had been tied to the job. I don't think there's been any progress on that front. So kind of waiting to see what Josh does, but right now it feels like he's just kind of on this ride with the rest of them.
- [47:18]
Howard Beck
And obviously their off season is going to depend on what decision they make there to an extent. Right. Like who is the coach, who is the gm. And until we know those things, it's probably really premature for us to speculate on what their off season looks like, but we'll do it anyway because that's what we do.
- [47:35]
Sam Amick
Because you're an Amy Poehler studio, that's why you're going to do it.
- [47:38]
Howard Beck
I mean, Amy Poehler does whatever she wants, and being in the studio, I feel empowered now to do whatever I want. I just think that. So this is a huge, like, huge credit to the Nuggets for forcing the Game seven and getting this as far as they have with a, you know, an incomplete roster, I think, to say the least, an incomplete rotation and a, a one armed Michael Porter Jr. And everything they've gone through. Right. Like, really incredible that, that they are where they are. So at Game seven Monday night in Oklahoma, Sunday, excuse me, Sunday, they win that and they're back in the conference finals, where I don't think any of us necessarily expected as of a couple of months ago. That in itself would be somewhat of an achievement. Jokic, unlike Giannis, has never put passive aggressive quotes out there and is a little bit younger and is not, does never has never seemed to be wired to be the kind of guy who's going to throw a tantrum or something and start making demands or demand a trade or anything like that. You get to the conference finals. I mean, I, I know Minnesota's often had their number, but, you know, Denver would have a Fighting chance to make the finals again. And maybe that changes everything. But they, to me have been all along in the back of my head, dark horse, maybe at least KD chasers. I don't think that they have the assets to get into the Giannis thing. I love the idea of Giannis there. I don't think there's a realistic path there. I'm not even sure. Well, with kd, considering his. His age and, you know, the. The small window that's left for whatever team that gets him, maybe it doesn't take as much. And again, now it's, what does Phoenix want? What are they trying to get? And are they looking for a ton of draft capital and all that stuff? Because Denver doesn't have a lot either. But I am curious about that. Like, where. You know, where does. Where does this end up for them? And again, I just noted it. We don't know how far they're going yet. We don't know what Jokic's role might play in how their offseason is approached. We don't know who the coach and GM are yet. But are they a dark horse, KD contender? And if not, kd, we know they need to do something, Sam, like that. That much is clear. However this ends up, even if they somehow end up back in the Finals, this is not a. A roster that looks like it has longevity to it. Like, what's next?
- [49:52]
Sam Amick
Yeah, I mean, so, yes, on the KD front, I think they've. They've looked at that in the past, like, seriously looked at it. So that does make some sense. You know, they've looked at Paul George in the past. You know, it's those types of players where they've thought about upgrades. Michael Porter Jr. Of course, would be the guy going out in any of those deals, you know, you know, contractually, he's the only one who makes sense. And then. And then in terms of value, when he's healthy, he's a guy. He had a very good year, and so maybe you can get something done on that front. The question also, though, is like, do you go star chasing like that, or do you. I mean, since we've been killing them over their lack of depth for the longest time, do you just find a way to. To fix that? I mean, last night's game, I. I'm studying this box score and I'm just marveling, you know, I was watching very closely. Howard, you can relate. Like, I don't know if your daughter is. Enjoys NBA basketball at all, but my, My kids don't a Ton. But my youngest son really got into that game, and it was just. I'm telling him, like, this guy Julian Strother, like, he's done nothing the whole series. Like, nothing. And then he gives him, you know, 15 points in the second half, and they're hanging on by the skin of their teeth when you look at their box, you know, it's like Strother is the only guy contributing yesterday in game six. Russ, who we all know is. Is Mr. Roller Coaster. He's had some great games and some terrible ones, you know, Russ, who. It's wild to say it has been their most important player off the bench. You know, it gives you four.
- [51:23]
Logan Murdoch
Hear that, Howard? And that's what I'm saying. I'm internalizing Raja, and I was just. Raja's. The spirit of Roger just came through to me. But go ahead, Sam. Sorry.
- [51:32]
Howard Beck
I mean, I was just thinking we need to get Mr. Roller Coaster on Russell Westbrook's basketball reference page. Can we get that added?
- [51:41]
Sam Amick
Listen, Howard, this is a NorCal reference. And Logan, your NorCal guy as well, he's. He is the big dipper of NBA players. You know what I mean? Like little Santa Cruz, boardwalk style. Like he.
- [51:53]
Logan Murdoch
Warm California sun, baby.
- [51:55]
Sam Amick
But yesterday it was. We were. Yesterday we were taking a little downturn, and it was four turnovers in 17 minutes and, you know, a bunch of plays that made you want to pull your hair out. So the. The depth is something that they got to fix because, you know, certainly some of those draft picks that Calvin Booth was hoping would pan out better, you know, than they. Than they have just happened.
- [52:17]
Howard Beck
I think Will Chamberlain already has rights to Big Dipper, so let's just go with Mr. Roller Coaster.
- [52:23]
Sam Amick
For us.
- [52:25]
Howard Beck
Maybe the demon that was at. Is the demon still at Great America or is that gone?
- [52:30]
Logan Murdoch
Man, we talking about. Forget all that. We talk about Medusa and Vallejo, dog. Y' all don't, you know, forget all that you guys are talking about. Anyway, I want to stay on Russ really quickly. What. There's been, like, there's some stuff that's come out about Russ over the last couple of weeks in terms of, like, his relationship with teammates and where. Where is he in this locker room right now? Like, based on your. On your knowledge, right? There's always something. There's always a rust factor. What is the rest factor in Denver right now?
- [53:02]
Howard Beck
I see that look on Sam's face. He's.
- [53:04]
Sam Amick
I'm just done talking about. It's.
- [53:05]
Logan Murdoch
No, you're not. No, you're not. Let's do It. He's counting over here.
- [53:08]
Howard Beck
He's trying to figure out how to do this.
- [53:11]
Sam Amick
No, I just don't feel like being.
- [53:12]
Logan Murdoch
17 different conversations are in his head right now from other people around. He's just trying to parse them into something. Just into one little thing.
- [53:20]
Sam Amick
I'm. I'm pulling a Howard where I'm like, I'm not trying to aggregate it here. Like, it's. I, you know, it's. It's. Here's where I'm gonna start. It's crazy. Having covered this league for a long time, I've never had something where a player who was in. Indisputable hall of Famer, incredible ballplayer. You know, I'm in the group that voted for him mvp, you know, was amazed by what he did that one year in OKC have covered him all the way through. But this thing where he's a. The back end of his career role player, where you go, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and like, three different versions with these similar threads were like, to some degree, all three situations were very sensitive with people. Like, Lakers was the most seemingly toxic. Not seemingly. He and LeBron clearly did not click. I don't know if you guys noticed, the other day, somebody asked him a very vanilla question that had LeBron as context, and Russ kind of casually smiled and was just like, oh, I haven't talked to him in a while. So Lakers, you know, was a negative ending. Clippers was a little more. The Clippers went to great lengths to hide a lot of the. The trickier moments that they had with Russ. You know, they acted like he put his hand up and volunteered to come off the bench. That was not the case. They had to twist his arm. They had to push really hard. And so, you know, he is incredibly intense, and he is tricky in a locker room. And yeah, like we wrote about when they fired Malone and Booth, we had stuff that's already out there about the fact that one of the things that ended up tripping Malone up at the end was that he was giving the star treatment to Joker, to Jamal and to Russ. And that locker room was like, wait a minute, like, two of these things are not like the other. And that caused issues. The ESPN story the other day that Ramona Shelburne had obviously, you know, was. Was pretty touchy in terms of some of the locker room stuff. So he, you know, I mean that again, we don't even have to unpack it. We know the elements here in play and. But because of the dearth of depth that they Have. They're in this, like, complicated marriage where the part I kind of love is that we went from, like, legitimately. When we wrote our story last month on the firings, I was of the mind of, like, oh, they are done with this dude. Like, they are. Like, they are all the way out and hilarious that, like, a month later, it's just like, these games here and there.
- [55:59]
Logan Murdoch
What did they say on Dumb and Dumber? You completely redeemed yourself.
- [56:05]
Sam Amick
It's like, never mind. We're good. You know? I mean, even the way I heard, you know, I think that the ESPN story the other day, there was, like, this. Some defense of him from the organization and some. Some not, you know, folks not happy about the way he was portrayed in that one. And it's like, I'm kind of laughing, like, oh, now y' all are back on, huh? Okay. Like, you know, but that's. That's the playoffs. They need help right now, and he's. He's pretty good at times.
- [56:32]
Logan Murdoch
He did okay right there, Howard, didn't he? He was a little nervous to start, you know?
- [56:36]
Howard Beck
No, that was great. Not a. Not a single aggregatable quote there, Sam.
- [56:39]
Sam Amick
Good. Love it.
- [56:41]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of, to keep you on the hot seat before you go, I want to talk about. Hey, Howard. Kings. Kangs. Kangs. Kings.
- [56:50]
Howard Beck
No, they're. I mean, Sam's the Sacramento guy, so he's got to be, like, the arbiter of this. But, like, I would.
- [56:57]
Logan Murdoch
Permanent A, right? Permanent A.
- [56:59]
Howard Beck
That's. It's just bad. Like, I think they lost the A and disease for about two years, a year and a half maybe. And now it's just there for perpetuity again, isn't it?
- [57:09]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, Sam. Can't say. Okay. We're talking about the Kang.
- [57:12]
Howard Beck
No, come on, Sam. Way in here. Can't. It's Kangs again, right?
- [57:15]
Sam Amick
For the foreseeable future, I've been informed through sources that my. My. My King's negativity is wearing thin. And King circles.
- [57:25]
Logan Murdoch
Well, I got news for all the Kings faithful. It's coming. It's. That's all you're going to get for the next few years based on the decisions that you've made.
- [57:31]
Cliff
Yeah.
- [57:32]
Logan Murdoch
You don't.
- [57:32]
Howard Beck
This. It's pretty simple. You don't want to be Kangs. Stop acting like Kangs. Get your.
- [57:36]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Earn that eye. Earn that I. And that s. Earn it.
- [57:39]
Howard Beck
Earn the eye. There you go.
- [57:41]
Logan Murdoch
So what the hell are they doing? Let's do a temp check on the Kings. They lost their pick. Right. And they. All the front office and all the, even the coaching searches is like, would be great if it was 2012. Right. It just seems like they're in a, just a. In a time machine. What is the plan there? Are they going to trade anyone there of consequence? Are they like, is there going to be a fire sale? What are the Kings going to do? They feel like, I don't know if they even know, but what the hell is going on right now in Sacramento?
- [58:11]
Sam Amick
I mean, my first thought is it's not, it's probably not fair to, to judge or criticize too much based on, you know, the, like the world of draft lottery part. Like representatives. Right. Every team chooses one person to represent them at the draft lottery. I don't know. I can't name all 30 representatives this year. But to your question, I will admit that I chuckled when I saw, and this is no disrespect, he's a very good player. But when I saw that Keon Ellis was the King's representative, I just kind of like that. That sounds about right. Like, like that's not, you know, it's just. It's just. I don't know what it represents.
- [58:52]
Logan Murdoch
You know what it sounded like. It was like, oh, we got to have somebody there.
- [58:55]
Sam Amick
Yeah.
- [58:56]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, is Keon in town? Is he free? Put them there.
- [59:00]
Howard Beck
The, the Kings are a very, as Sam just alluded to because they're not happy with being called the Kangs and being criticized. They're very defensive. They put their best defender on the, on the dais.
- [59:12]
Logan Murdoch
Not Malik Monk? No, not Malik Monk.
- [59:16]
Sam Amick
I mean, listen, here's. I'll give the quick, you know, car wash breakdown. Scott Perry, the new GM I think highly of, I think, you know, has had a very good career. He's, you know, part of the Joe Dumars front office in Detroit that back in the day was part of that celebrated era. You know, his time with the Knicks was interesting because, you know, if you look back at some of the moves like he, he was on the front end of, you know, their turnaround and, and even more to his credit, Scott, one of his best attributes is, you know, he's very. He's a very good people person and he's somebody who can work and, and kind of rot environments, if you will. And I'm not even trying to be funny. That is literally his number one value in the King situation is. And Howard, this is right up your alley. Like, Scott Perry was able to work well with Jim Dolan in New York. He was able to work Even when he was starting to get pushed out, you know, by the Leon Rose regime, they were still. It wasn't like an either or type of thing. Scott became, you know, a trusted voice in their very crowded room with the Knicks and somebody who to this day still has good relationships with the people in New York. That speaks well of him. The reason I say all that is that in the King's environment, where Vivek Rona dve, their owner, you know, is so famously, you know, medals and has been very influential over the course of the past couple of years and a lot of their major moves after taking a short respite in the Mike Brown era, where he kind of backed off for a bit, you know, Scott's pretty good at navigating these kinds of waters, so of the things happening with them, you know, I'm very curious to see what kind of work Scott can get done. The Doug Christie decision, just given my opinion, it's just, you know. Yeah. I mean, the look on Logan's face. It's nothing against Doug. I. I generally. I'm not gonna lose any sleep or feel guilty about taking this. This perspective, which is, as a general rule, whenever you're hiring people who would not have a shot at the job with 29 other teams, you probably need to think twice about that. That's just not great process.
- [61:29]
Logan Murdoch
Or a third time, you know, maybe a fourth time.
- [61:32]
Sam Amick
Yeah, and I mean, that's. That's the thing, too, is that, you know, Doug, he's been on multiple coaching staffs where the head coach, you know, independent of everything else, would never have actually hired Doug. He was an organization hire. And so that's the Kings where the part. And now you got me to go a little more negative, admittedly. It's like I'm just a little bit over the culture of how every guy in the 2002 roster is lionized for all of eternity. Like, they got to one conference finals. It doesn't feel like the healthiest ethos to make decisions through that prison, but we'll see where it goes.
- [62:12]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, man. I mean, you know, that's also extended to your. To your Sac State Hornets buddy. So, you know, that.
- [62:19]
Sam Amick
I mean, don't even.
- [62:21]
Logan Murdoch
Sacramento.
- [62:22]
Jomi Adenaron
I.
- [62:23]
Sam Amick
First of all, I was. I was gonna bring this up later, but. Howard, you like my coffee mug here?
- [62:28]
Logan Murdoch
Nice.
- [62:29]
Howard Beck
Excellent.
- [62:29]
Sam Amick
Yeah. What world are we living in? The home of Shaq and Mike Bibby is so weird.
- [62:35]
Logan Murdoch
It's.
- [62:36]
Howard Beck
I thought for sure. By the way, I'm. I'm actually sort of disappointed I didn't get A text from you the day that they named.
- [62:42]
Logan Murdoch
He was depressed.
- [62:43]
Howard Beck
They're nil GM or whatever. Like I thought for sure you were going to be like lording it over me, like ha. Sack got him the Davis didn't or something. And they got him for free.
- [62:50]
Sam Amick
Howard, he's not free. Paid.
- [62:52]
Howard Beck
That's a, that's some damn good negotiating on Saturday.
- [62:56]
Logan Murdoch
We know what it was. It was like, yo, Shaq, will you do this? And like Shaq's doing a million other things. He's like, yeah, whatever. Like if you need to FaceTime, somebody's going there now.
- [63:03]
Sam Amick
So that's part of it too. But, but I mean, Logan, you're, you're kidding, but you're not kidding. Like that's literally the, that's the butterfly effect of this culture, is that it's like that group is just taking over the damn city. Which is fine if it leads to success. It just obviously hasn't yet. And we'll see. And this, you know, the Vladi Divas being the GM back in the day, like, these are the choices where I'm just gonna stop talking and watch Logan's face.
- [63:33]
Howard Beck
I'll just, I'll just, I just wanna pipe in and say this because, Sam, I feel the same way you do about Scott Perry, great NBA guy, great all around person and somebody who I think can navigate these waters. And I'm wishing the best for Scott for sure. And I like Doug Christie and I've always had a good relationship with Doug. But what it feels like to me in this moment is that the Kings and Rana Diva specifically have not learned any lessons in the time that he has been owner. Some of the same bad habits in terms of the way that they're hiring, in the way that they're envisioning their franchise in the impatience, in the meddling. It's just the same thing, different versions of it. And look, maybe it'll be a better outcome this time. I certainly hope that for them and for Scott and for Doug and for Kings fans who have been through enough. But I, I, the way that this op, this organization has operated over the last six, eight months in particular does not give me much optimism about where the Kings are headed.
- [64:31]
Logan Murdoch
Feels like 2012 again. Feels like when I first met my guy Sam, just how depressing it was. Remember those days? Remember, remember, remember when Keith Smart had to run on the court in the middle of a game to. To get the ad that fell? Remember that? You don't remember that?
- [64:45]
Sam Amick
I do.
- [64:45]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we roll for that game. Yeah, that was yeah. Geez. And I like, you know, we were co workers at once upon a time.
- [64:53]
Sam Amick
You know, when the late, great Paul Westfall put out his own statement about DeMarcus Cousins, that. That was not approved by the organization.
- [65:04]
Logan Murdoch
That was awesome. That was awesome. That was awesome. And then, Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite. One of my favorite memories, I think, and I think it was when you go look at the picture of DeMarcus Cousins when he got his Team USA uniform. It was him and Rudy Gay, and they were, you know, like. It was like a pregame thing, and they were, like, showing their jerseys. Look how depressed DeMarcus is because he just hated George Carl so much with just an intense passion. Anyways, that's the Kings. Kangs. Those are the Kings.
- [65:38]
Howard Beck
Sam had something. What was it? Sam.
- [65:40]
Logan Murdoch
Sorry, Sam. Sorry. I was going down this memory lane. My bad, buddy.
- [65:44]
Sam Amick
Now I'm blanking. I forget what it was. I don't know. Oh, I know. Like, it's not. Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say it's not this. This idea of. Of kind of, you know, trying to trick the fans with warm, fuzzy hires during times of peril. It's not a new trick. And I. I hesitate to say this because I actually think this guy's a very good coach, and it could be a good Suns coach, but I was talking to someone today about the Sun's coaching candidates, and. And Jared Dudley came up, and it did kind of hit me like, you know, like, that's if the Suns have a lot of negative stuff going on, you know, Jared Dudley was a beloved son. He's a qualified coach. He's been in the running for head coaching stuff in the past, but, like, generally speaking, making decisions like the Kings have for so long now that. That are, you know, disproportionately calculating or taking into consideration the guy's history with the organization and how warm and fuzzy he makes the fans feel. Those are not the things you should be focusing on.
- [66:49]
Logan Murdoch
This is just. It just took the life, just talking about the Kings. I shouldn't even put it on the dock. Just took the life out of this podcast. I'm just depressed now, and you're gonna.
- [66:56]
Sam Amick
Get me in trouble. I'm gonna get more phone calls. It's like, fine.
- [66:59]
Logan Murdoch
It's okay.
- [67:00]
Sam Amick
The downside of being, you know, one of the few.
- [67:03]
Logan Murdoch
And then you brought up Ishba. What made me want to talk about the Suns really quick. We got to go in a second. Can you just give me two minutes on Ishba real quick? In the Suns like what they're going to do, like, where they're at real quick.
- [67:12]
Sam Amick
I mean, Brian Gregory, their new gm, it's the same type thing. Like, he would not be in the running for a GM spot with any other team. He has history with. Matt Ispia. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Doesn't mean it hasn't had a, a good career. But, you know, long time college coach, but Michigan State ties. It's. It's the same type of mentality, you know, I mean, and he's a much better example. You know, I shouldn't even brought Jared into this conversation, but, you know, Brian is, you know, they, they went shopping for the Bob Myers types and learned quickly that somebody like Bob wasn't going to come. And I mean, I don't know where you want to take the conversation other than I. Actually, unless the Nuggets come calling for Kevin Durant, I'm not really seeing exactly where the Kevin Durant landing spot is going to be at this point. And Bradley Beal and his wife really like living in Phoenix, so I don't think that's changing all this brouhaha.
- [68:16]
Logan Murdoch
They're just gonna run this back, right? Oh, God. I mean, as, as if this pod could get more depressing. Howard.
- [68:24]
Howard Beck
All right, listen, we'll end on a positive note. On the plus side, still at this moment, at this hour, Phoenix Sun. Kevin Durant did win the PBWA Magic Johnson Award this week, which we were pleased to give to. To him for being.
- [68:39]
Logan Murdoch
I'm gonna see if you're gonna put it on his trophy case. You think he's gonna. Where's he gonna go put that mvp?
- [68:45]
Howard Beck
I mean, I think it's like on the shelf right below the mvp, right? That sounds about right.
- [68:50]
Sam Amick
I meant to. Look, has he acknowledged the award or no?
- [68:52]
Howard Beck
I don't think so, but Magic Johnson did on his social media feed today, so that was nice. Thank you, Magic. Very cool. He should have. He should have tagged the pbwa. I would have asked kindly, Magic, but if you could tag us.
- [69:07]
Logan Murdoch
Well, you got his number, man.
- [69:08]
Howard Beck
Link to our press release. That would have been nice, but.
- [69:12]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, that would have been great.
- [69:14]
Howard Beck
That's fine.
- [69:14]
Sam Amick
I know none of my stories. I'm gonna leave you guys with this because I feel like we're wrapping up.
- [69:18]
Logan Murdoch
Also, another thing real quick, before you go, just after you say what you say, give Cliff some just words of just, you know, encouragement for his Sixers. After you say your point up.
- [69:27]
Sam Amick
Got you. I was. My, my Kevin Durant stories pale in comparison to Logan's, you guys have a really strong relationship. But in terms of his PBWA award that I, I do think is well deserved. He not only was good with local media this year, but multiple authors of books. You know, Mike Singer wrote his book on Nikola Jokic and, and Kevin gave him a bunch of time for that. Chris Hine has a book coming out about Anthony Edwards that it should be great. And I know he talked to Kevin for that. But whenever I think about, you know, my own Kevin memories, the. This one is always going to be on the short list. So the, the finals in Toronto, Kevin is hurt. It's not the final injury yet, it's the one that preceded it. And he's trying to get back. And I had sent him a note that said, hey, I would love to do a story. I think it was for game two, like sitting with you and just seeing the game through your eyes during the finals. And it was one of those, like, you know, to use the old.
- [70:27]
Logan Murdoch
It was a Hail Mary.
- [70:28]
Sam Amick
Yeah. Like the MJ thing. Like you, you miss, you know, all the shots you don't take. And so I'm curious if he and I actually pulled this up. I'm curious if he had any interest in this. And I'll never forget his answer. He says you'll need a camera crew and Martin Scorsese to understand what I'm talking about.
- [70:50]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, man.
- [70:50]
Sam Amick
I'm gonna just say the story never happened.
- [70:53]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, you could get Scorsese like, come on. I will say this. KD is obviously we know about just like the ups and the downs of covering him on a day to day basis.
- [71:06]
Sam Amick
Sure.
- [71:06]
Logan Murdoch
But I will say he has been one of the most interesting players that I have ever been around. And I think every time I'm around him, I either learn something new, whether it's like, you know, him going off on something that I wrote or, you know, that something that was. That he didn't like that someone said about him even on this platform. But like I learned something new every time about like the modern NBA superstar and what that means. Like I. He's just so transparent in that way. When you do get him, he's moody as fuck, but he is like one of the all time guys to, to cover because you learn so much from him. And yeah, that's what I have to say. I think that he's good, that the, he's. I'm gonna miss him when he's retired in terms of like covering him, you know, for sure. Congrats to Kevin Okay, Cliff, do you have anything for Cliff? Because, you know, it's really depressing being a Sixers fan. He also. He recreated the Daryl Morey meme in his house when. When that. When that. Cliff, come on, real quick. Are you okay, buddy? Just like, just. Let's do a temp check.
- [72:11]
Howard Beck
He got. He got the third pick. Cliff should be fine. Cliff, you should be. You should be on. You should be rejuvenated.
- [72:16]
Logan Murdoch
You okay, Cliff?
- [72:17]
Cliff
I'm. I'm. I'm ecstatic. I'm happy we got a pick. Like I said. How are you know that, Howard? You watched the lottery and you know Kevin Ngandi, my guy, my temple brother, he had a. He had an issue with some bad information being fed in his ear. So for like 30 seconds, I was like, ah, damn it, we don't got the pick. And then. And then after that, the Mavericks sneak into the top four, and he's like, oh, wait, no, that means the Sixers do get into the top four. So then they go to commercial break, and I was just happy. Listen, I would have been cool with four. I just think, you know, Sam, I had a little conspiracy theory about what happened with the NBA. The Mavericks landed number one pick, and Howard.
- [72:51]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, okay, okay.
- [72:53]
Howard Beck
We don't need to do that again.
- [72:56]
Cliff
Howard wasn't going for it, but look, I'm just happy that we have a pick, period. So I'm cool.
- [73:00]
Sam Amick
I'm not going for. I'm going to say this. I'm not going for it either. I'm going to keep repeating this on every draft lottery conspiracy conversation I have. The NBA needs to find a way to. To convince none other than LeBron James to stop being the one perpetuating this stuff. LeBron has done interviews where he literally talks about how him going to Cleveland was a. That does not help when it comes to fans. You know what I mean?
- [73:26]
Logan Murdoch
He pedals conspiracy theories right now.
- [73:30]
Sam Amick
You should be happy you got your pick.
- [73:32]
Cliff
Absolutely.
- [73:32]
Sam Amick
The Daryl Morey picture that we talked about off air cracks me up because it's like, if you didn't know the context, you don't know if he's crying or laughing or, like, you don't know if it's happiness.
- [73:44]
Logan Murdoch
I did it until I saw the video because I was like, I think we're at the game. So I didn't watch the lottery because we were both at Chase center. And when I saw. I got the meme sent to me, and I was like, oh, shit, what happened? Then I finally saw the video the next day. It's A lot. It's a lot more acceptable with context.
- [73:59]
Sam Amick
You know, my only other Sixers contribution is super random, but I'm going to share it anyway. I was watching ESPN recently and I actually really enjoyed. I was a little confused about the timing and how this became a story, but they had a feature. I don't know if you guys saw this. Talking about AI's famous practice quote. Did you guys happen to see this story?
- [74:23]
Cliff
Yes, man.
- [74:25]
Sam Amick
Cliff, like, yeah, Goob Jackson did a really nice job contextualizing AI's practice quote. And. And I hate to admit this, as someone who's covered league forever, like, I did not know all of the con around practice quote. And I don't want to get any of the specific details wrong, but his best friend had been killed recently before that quote. And a lot of his energy in that press conference and the reasons that he missed practice and was struggling, they were just very heavy life things happening that, you know, scoops entire story was essentially saying that Philly media, you know, never really seemed to acknowledge the other real stuff that was going on. So just in terms of, like, Sixers history and. And.
- [75:10]
Logan Murdoch
And I'm speaking Cliff's language right now. You're Cliff, you're speaking language.
- [75:13]
Cliff
AI was vilified by Sixers media for the longest time. Like, they only. People started loving AI after he, you know, he left in 2000. I don't know, six, whatever. Whatever year he got traded to. To Denver. I mean, AI was hated by a lot of parents, a lot of media. Like, just growing up, people was just like. Because he was a rapper too. So he just had all the. And then his. Him and his wife had issues. Like, Dave was super public with everything. And yeah, hey, I was. He was just a modern day, like, I don't care. I'm be me. I'm gonna authentically be me. I'm from Newport News. Like. But he embodied, like, everything Philly is. Like, we. I swear to this day, he's from Philly. Like, I. I'll be surprised when people say he's from Virginia. You know what I'm saying?
- [75:52]
Sam Amick
Yep. Actually, now I'm going way down the rabbit hole.
- [75:56]
Logan Murdoch
All right, all right, all right, all right. Go ahead.
- [75:58]
Sam Amick
I do one more, Logan.
- [75:59]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, yeah, one more, one more. You have the floor, buddy. You have the floor.
- [76:02]
Sam Amick
I think this is safe because we listen. It's not a secret. We know that AI, he certainly liked to hit the bottle a fair amount, things like that, right? But Club Friday.
- [76:11]
Cliff
Club Friday, man.
- [76:13]
Sam Amick
I heard this story is wild. I heard a Story about. I'm going to leave some of the details out and I, but I certainly trust the story. He plays pickup ball one day, like an off day in a, in a, in a NBA road city. And a guy just goes to the gym thinking he's going to work out with pro level guys, but not, not that kind of guy. He doesn't. This dude's wearing like a hoodie, like, and you can only see the eyes. And he literally only. He doesn't even know who this dude is. But they just get on the court, they start playing and. And he's like, this dude is busting my ass. Like, and he, this guy's like, this guy's like an international level player. Like, he's playing over.
- [76:50]
Logan Murdoch
Sure.
- [76:51]
Sam Amick
Not an NBA guy. He's like, this dude was busting my ass. He goes, I can't figure it out because he smells like the bar. Like, and to the point, like, he actually had to like, you know, sign a little NDA and not even like, share this. Well, then, then the, you know, the hood comes off and he's like, my God. And it's. It's AI. And then like the next day he goes out and puts 35 on. On that team.
- [77:16]
Logan Murdoch
You know, he had to sweat out that alcohol, man, some kind of way.
- [77:22]
Howard Beck
By the way.
- [77:23]
Cliff
Yeah. But hey, I used to do stuff like that in community. He would just literally pop up to the park or somewhere and just play and just hoop with random people.
- [77:29]
Sam Amick
Like. Right, right.
- [77:30]
Cliff
It was, yeah, just like, he was just a regular guy. It's crazy.
- [77:33]
Howard Beck
Did you guys see the Buffalo Bills? Did their schedule reveal the bit was, oh, we're going to use AI to do it as a shortcut where we will use AI and then it's Allen Iverson. Yeah, go, go look that up. That was really funny. Shout out to Justin Tinsley at Anscape, who, by the way, also did a story about the whole backstory to the practice rant on Anscape three years ago. Justin Tinsley did that story, which I think was the first time I had seen and read about just how much more there was to that scene, I will say, because everybody gets a lot of grief now of like, oh, people make fun of this and they should. Like, okay, fine. But Iverson himself has now done multiple commercials and stuff where he himself is mocking himself, making fun of that moment. Like, I think we can do both things. Like, I think we can appreciate that there was much more to what happened that day that was very serious in nature. And that provides some context for what Iverson was saying and going through. But at the same time, like, the sound bites are what they are. They are. They are, in a certain context, funny and a flashpoint and a meme and something that everybody references at some point. Ted Lasso had a great spin off of that, appropriating it, which was, which was great. Like, we can, we can have both aspects of this, right? It can be used in commercials. Iverson himself can make fun of it. But it is, I think it's important for everybody to know the backstory, too.
- [79:05]
Sam Amick
So now I'm just worried about Jim Mora and what he might have been going through when he was screaming about playoffs.
- [79:16]
Logan Murdoch
Sam Amick, national NBA writer at the Athletic Honorary Rowan, thanks for coming on the program, buddy. Really appreciate it.
- [79:26]
Sam Amick
Thanks for having me. I'm studying the movies behind you. I'm gonna go watch some old flicks after seeing it.
- [79:32]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we got, you know, I mean, this is all the rewatchables that I have. Everybody, you know, we got, we're video now on Spotify and the Spotify app. So this is the rewatchables that I will say on some little Real Ones album covers, you know, we're tapping in, man. You know, just keeping it groovy, keeping it creative. Anyway, tap in with us on Tuesday. Raj is back. Real ones mailbag gmail.com real onesmailback gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com Howard Raja me Tuesday. See you then. I All the shits. By the way, Foreign must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rghelp.com call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit MD Gambling Help in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.