Will SGA Continue to Dominate the Pacers? Plus, the Knicks Search for a New Voice.

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: Episode Summary Episode Title: Will SGA Continue to Dominate the Pacers? Plus, the Knicks Search for a New Voice
Release Date: June 11, 2025
Hosts: Logan Murdoch, Raja Bell, Howard Beck

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1. Personal Reflections and Team Dynamics

The episode kicks off with a candid conversation among the hosts, focusing on personal challenges during the summer months. Raja Bell shares his struggles balancing family life and the increasing demands placed on young athletes.

Raja Bell [00:23]: "There's a lot of activity. There's a lot of needs. There's a lot of non-drivers. ... the level of tension in the house and just anxiety just rises by the minute."

Logan Murdoch empathizes with Raja's sentiments, highlighting the universal challenges of summer schedules for families.

2. Pressure in the NBA Finals: Pacers vs. Thunder

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the NBA Finals matchup between the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder. The hosts analyze the pressure each team faces, particularly focusing on Tyrese Halliburton's performance.

Howard Beck [06:36]: "Tyrese Halliburton is really fascinating... his profile has grown immensely over the course of these playoffs because of his primarily his late game heroics."

Raja Bell emphasizes the Pacers' strategic playstyle, noting their ability to stay competitive through defensive prowess and efficient three-point shooting.

Raja Bell [04:54]: "They have three equalizing things as a team... defensively, they pace as an equalizer, and their ability to shoot the three ball."

3. Tyrese Halliburton: Star Performance or Team Player?

The hosts delve into Halliburton's unique role on the Pacers. Howard Beck discusses the dichotomy between Halliburton as a high scorer versus a facilitator.

Howard Beck [10:18]: "Halliburton can be selfless to a fault, too. ... he is more like Rondo and Kidd than he is Nash."

Raja Bell adds that Halliburton's game requires a supportive cast, suggesting that forcing him into a high-scoring role might disrupt the team's chemistry.

4. Critique of NBA Finals Presentation

Howard Beck voices concerns over the NBA Finals' presentation, criticizing the absence of traditional elements like the Finals logo and anthem.

Howard Beck [27:29]: "The NBA Finals logo should be on the court. The Larry O'Brien logo should be on the court."

Logan Murdoch agrees, pointing out the NBA's tendency to misread fan expectations, which detracts from the Finals' grandeur.

5. Knicks Coaching Change: Analyzing Tom Thibodeau's Firing

The episode transitions to discussing the abrupt firing of Tom Thibodeau, despite his successes with the New York Knicks. Howard Beck expresses confusion over the decision, highlighting the Knicks' significant improvements under Thibodeau.

Howard Beck [38:38]: "If you fire a coach like Tom Thibodeau, who's clearly very good at what he does... he should get credit for a lot of that."

Raja Bell explores potential reasons behind the Knicks' decision, suggesting possible disconnects between the front office and coaching strategies.

6. Greatest Assists in NBA History

In a nostalgic segment, the hosts reminisce about iconic assists, notably Shaquille O'Neal's alley-oop from Kobe Bryant during the 2000 Western Conference Finals.

Howard Beck [52:46]: "That was a symbolic of everything that those guys could do when they were actually in sync with each other."

Logan Murdoch and Raja Bell add personal anecdotes about witnessing these legendary moments firsthand, emphasizing their lasting impact on NBA lore.

7. Mailbag: Listener Questions and Insights

The episode concludes with a dynamic mailbag segment where listeners' questions about potential trades, All-Star Game formats, and team strategies are addressed.

• Listener Question on Spurs and Kevin Durant:

  • Logan Murdoch: "I don't think it's going to make them a contender necessarily..."
  • Howard Beck: "Kevin Durant being 37 years old and needing to be traded, that's the bottom line."

• Listener Question on Championship Windows and Team Moves:

  • Howard Beck: "The Knicks have urgency for sure... They have an extraordinarily expensive payroll."

Raja Bell humorously engages with the audience, providing light-hearted commentary amidst serious discussions.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ringer NBA Show offers a comprehensive analysis of the NBA Finals, the evolving role of key players like Tyrese Halliburton, and the implications of coaching changes within the Knicks. The hosts blend in-depth sports analysis with personal anecdotes and listener interactions, providing a rich and engaging experience for both avid fans and casual listeners.

Notable Quotes:

• Raja Bell [00:23]: "There's a lot of activity. There's a lot of needs... the level of tension in the house and just anxiety just rises by the minute."
• Howard Beck [06:36]: "Tyrese Halliburton is really fascinating... his profile has grown immensely over the course of these playoffs because of his primarily his late game heroics."
• Howard Beck [27:29]: "The NBA Finals logo should be on the court. The Larry O'Brien logo should be on the court."
• Howard Beck [38:38]: "If you fire a coach like Tom Thibodeau, who's clearly very good at what he does... he should get credit for a lot of that."
• Howard Beck [52:46]: "That was symbolic of everything that those guys could do when they were actually in sync with each other."

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Howard Beck]

Foreign.

[Logan Murdoch]

We are back. Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bell there. Howard Beck in the cut. Howard Beck has a plane to catch. And Raja just. He said, let's get this over with. Raja, how are you doing? What's summer raw looking like? How. How's it. How's it going for you, buddy? How are you doing?

[Raja Bell]

No, I'm good.

[Logan Murdoch]

Specifically you. How are you doing, sir?

[Raja Bell]

I'm doing well. I. But you know anyone who has kids at home for the summer, like, it's. We're fine right now, but I see where this is headed. There's a lot of. There's a lot of activity. There are a lot of needs. There are a lot of non drivers. There's a lot of things that. That people desire to do. There's not enough time in the day, so the level of. Of. Of tension in the house and just anxiety just rises by the minute. So where. What time is it now? 11. I'm okay right now, but I see where this is going.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right, Right. Are you. Do you think you're gonna feel like this in a year when your oldest is going off to college? Are you gonna be like, no, no, no.

[Raja Bell]

So I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I am actually trying to balance. It's a great. It's a great point, Logan. So anytime I have those type of feelings that are, like, welling up inside me, I try to balance them with, like, you will miss this when they start leaving and he's gone. And so, like, it brings me back to, like, a level. A level emotional state. Right? But like, so it's like.

[Logan Murdoch]

But thug tears are, like, kind of forming.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is like, yeah.

[Raja Bell]

So when you ask me how I'm doing, I'm fine. Like, yeah, we're good. We're gonna go fishing tomorrow. Try to catch the mahi. It's gonna be good.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's the most Miami ever. Get some mahi. We're gonna get some mahi tomorrow.

[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

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[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

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[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

Getting through the day. State Farm with the assist.

[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

I don't even think I've ever seen a mahi fish other than on my plate. Like, I don't Ever think, you know, they don't have that at all.

[Howard Beck]

The only place you need to see them.

[Raja Bell]

Okay, this is, this is. Can I rant. Can I start the pod with a rant, please? I mean, what do we, we have the NBA finals to talk about. There's not much else to talk about. These kids today, right? Like these.

[Howard Beck]

We're already off to a phenomenal start.

[Raja Bell]

No, it is sports related. It's basketball related. It's basketball related. So anybody like, you know, we could tie it in if you, if you feel it necessary. But the schedules that they ask these dudes to keep as young, 15, 16 year old athletes, like, you know, and I'm, I'm experiencing to some degree with my, my little girl too with soccer. It's, it's an obnoxious amount of, of, of games, practices, and then just generally as they get older and now that like Ty is in the recruiting world of just things that you have to be at, it monopolizes your whole summer. There's no time to, there's not even time to like train, let alone get away and be a kid. There's no time to work on your craft to get better. At least NBA players have an off season where there are no games. If you wanted to change the form on a jump shot, like, you had plenty of time and opportunity to do it. If you wanted to make some adjustments to whatever else you could, these kids, like, literally don't have the time to do it. So I say that to say, you know, people are a little salty that I'm taking my kids fucking fishing tomorrow and they're missing a practice. I don't give a fuck. I'm not going to be beholden to that. They're too young. They don't need to be doing that every day. Like, I'm sorry they got to be kids.

[Logan Murdoch]

I love that. I love that. Fair.

[Cliff]

Now you can watch the best of Hulu on Disney, like season two of nine, Perfect Strangers with Hulu on Disney and Star wars and. Or season two on Disney. All of these and more now streaming with Hulu on Disney with a bundle subscription available with bundle plans starting at $10.99 a month. Terms apply. Visit disneyplus.com hulu for details.

[Logan Murdoch]

Who needed to know? Probably heard that just now, you know, so shout out to you.

[Raja Bell]

Thanks. That's what I'm on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Does it feel good to get that out? Does it feel. Do you feel better? A little bit.

[Raja Bell]

I don't, I don't. Because nothing's gonna change. But I, I so for my household, I will try to protect them from that. But like, fundamentally, like, all jokes aside and like, I'm not ranting and raving, but it's a, it's kind of a broken system there. It's too much like there are too many things that they need to be at or they're pressured to feel like they need to be at and there's not enough time. Real talk, not, not just to be a kid, but like, let's say you have a kid that just loves their sport and they want to get better at it. When does that happen? If you're playing every single weekend and you practice all week and you can't miss the practices or, you know, like there's just no time built into it and it's broken.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Speaking of pressure packed environments, Raja, who has the most pressure going into game three out of the Thunder? The Pacers.

[Raja Bell]

I think it's OKC because, I mean, obviously you lost home court. You need to flip that and get it back as soon as you can. I feel like they are in control more so maybe than some other people feel. I feel like, you know, the Pacers have been game and I'm not taking anything away from them. They. They pulled out game one, but I. And so there is pressure on them because I think that Oklahoma City kind of has control of it in a way that the one one might not suggest. But you do need to get your home court back if you're them, and you need to get it back quickly.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, you. You wrote about Halliburton and the struggles that he has faced even with the game winning shot in game one. And, you know, his just inability to catch a rhythm against this great, amazing, spectacular Oklahoma City Thunder defense, where it's probably an oversimplification act, what he needs to do. But I mean, that's where we're at right now. Like, what does he need to do going into game three right now? Because it's been such a wonky series where OKC has pretty much had control throughout the series, one one series record notwithstanding. But he needs to get going in a way for them to get going and them to win in the way that they do. Do you think that that's going to happen in Game 3 when they're back home? There's more comfortability or where do we stand with Tyrese Halliburton at this moment?

[Howard Beck]

So I actually, by the way, think that there's more pressure on Indy, weirdly, not to disagree with Raja just for the fun of it, which is fun Though, anyway, because, you know, if you look at the first two games, you know, the, the Thunder pretty well spanked them in game two. The Thunder had control of almost all of game one. And then the Pacers just did that Pacers thing where it's like, okay, we, we think we're going to go win now and we're going to beat you down the last five minutes of the game. But they, you know, they had a lead for like, I don't know, less than two minutes of the entire clock. And so the, the bigger picture here is the Thunder have really controlled the series. They lost home court advantage and yeah, if they lost game three to Raj's point like that, that would feel like a lot of pressure on them at that point. I still feel like it's more on the Pacers only because the moment you lose game three, if that happens, you've now surrendered the one thing. You had, home court advantage. You've lost two in a row. And it will feel the weight. It feels heavier too. When you've lost back to back games, especially if game three feels like game two. And it starts to be, you know what, all that talk about how the Thunder had way more depth and talent and all these amazing versatile defenders who can, who can get after you, it's going to start to feel really heavy, I think. And then all of a sudden four becomes the must win. Right? It just. These things snowball really quickly. Anyway. Halliburton. Tyrese Halliburton is really fascinating because just as a reference point, none of us, none of the three of us participate in the, in our Ringer Top 100. So people can neither credit nor blame us for this. It's just a, it's just a reference point. Halliburton. Yeah, whatever. As I always say, if you have concerns, complaints, grievances, go to Michael Pina. You can find, you can find him on all the socials.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's all his fault.

[Howard Beck]

He loves that Tyrese Halliburton broke the top 10, I think for the first time ever in the wake of his run through the Eastern Conference playoffs. Because of all those clutch shots, because of all those huge performances, because of the 30 point triple double with no turnovers, right? Like every. The totality of Tyrese Halliburton's performance this spring has vaulted him into the Ringers top 10. And when we're probably not the only outlet doing that, right. His profile has grown immensely over the course of these playoffs because of his primarily his late game heroics. Right? But you pull back a little and you look at the results the other night when you only had five points through the first three quarters, and, yeah, ends up with 17 points and like, I think eight assists, seven assists, something like that. But it was like, mostly a lot of, like, you know, fourth quarter flurry that really didn't make much of a dent. He didn't have an impact on that game. And it brings up this kind of conundrum with Tyrese Halliburton. He's definitely a star. He is by. By the Ringers, top 100 committee's standards, a top 10 star. And I'm not even disagreeing with that. But he is not our prototypical NBA star. He is not the put my team on my back night in, night out, high usage. I'll get you 30, 35, anytime, anywhere. Just let me know. I'll. I'll go do it. That's not. That's not him. That's not the way he's wired. It's not his game. Raja had a great explanation a couple weeks back or just. Or an analysis about the fact that, like, Tyrese is not the guy who just, like, put it in his hands, take your guy off the dribble, you know, collapse the defense. Like, it's ne. Like, he can do that, but it's not really his game. He needs screens. He needs movement. And the beauty of his game is more about that selflessness and his uncanny shot making, his great passing. And whether you want to compare him to Rondo, Nash, Kid, whatever, he's more like those guys than Westbrook.

[Raja Bell]

He's. He's more like. He's more like Rondo and Kid than he is Nash, Nash could score it. Stevie could go get buckets like he could.

[Howard Beck]

And one of the things that even I think Steve has said this in the wake of his career was like, I should have maybe shot more. And they always said. And like, you know, Dantoni, they always said like, Steve could have shot more, but he's so selfless to a fault. Halliburton can be selfless to a fault, too. But you're right, he's not quite the scorer that Steve was or could be. But the numbers look about the same, right? The numbers, because they're both shooting less than they could. Point being, when Halbert has this game like that. And this is why I wrote the piece I did coming out of game two. Immediately there's this dumb kind of like, oh, Halliburton needs to step up. Halliburton needs to shoot more. Halliburton is like, no, that's not who he is. And if he starts trying to force the issue, that's not going to do the Pacers any good. They are collaborative or an ecosystem, as Carlisle said in the post game the other night. And, and he's. That's not some alibi. That's evident to anybody who's been watching them all season. Like, they are an ecosystem. They're an ensemble. They're great when the ball is moving, pinging around and Niecemith scoring a little Nemhardt scoring a little, T.J. mcConnell scoring a little Turner, Siakam. Everybody is involved. That's their game. That's how the Pacers got here. So if you get to this stage and suddenly you panic and say, oh shit, we lost a game, we're getting dominated and maybe they lose game three. Oh, no, the answer is not like, well, Halliburton and Siakam are the stars. Just, just keep feeding them. No, that's not what got you here. And that's not who you are. That's not your best attribute. And to the extent that they can, they have to just get back to what has made them great. Push the pace, keep the ball moving, take open shots, period. It cannot be all of a sudden, give the ball to Halliburton and have him shoot 30 times.

[Logan Murdoch]

How much of that is like. I mean, we see it a lot with, with Shaq, with big men, right, where it's like, if you're not getting a certain amount of shots or a certain amount of rebounds, a certain amount of dominance. I would say, like, I don't, I don't know if cliche dominance is the right word, but like what we. Whenever we think about dominance, we think about, oh, well, you know, Kobe got 48 and that's how you need to play as a player. How much have we as that kind of culture? I'll ask Rogers how. How much of that kind of culture is kind of seeped into the coverage of the way Aliburton is on this big stage right where he does have a. He. He can be dominant in certain ways. You talk about the 30 point triple double, but like he's doing what is needed for his team at the given moment. And that's always his. His go to. Well, like, I'm doing what I need to do for the team and the stats kind of like bear that out for what. What is needed? Like, how do we balance both of those agendas where one guy is like, one is like, hey, if you're going to be dominant, you need to put a. Be put up gaudy numbers as opposed to what he's doing the Jason Kidd route or the Rondo route, where, you know, he's getting a lot of people involved and he's more of a facilitator and he'll hit the shot at the end like he did in game one.

[Raja Bell]

Um, I mean, I think both can be dominant, right? Like, you can, you can literally dominate a game by, by stat, stuffing points, assists, rebound, steals, what have you, and just have your fingerprints all over that game in terms of the pace and, and control of it and so on and so forth. You can also dominate it by just like, physically imposing yourself on the point category to a degree that would get you a win. The, the difference, and I don't know if I'm answering your question really, Logan, is to do it the first way, and for that to be able to produce a win, you have to have a supporting cast that's able to.

[Logan Murdoch]

To.

[Raja Bell]

To support you in terms of point production so that all of those other ways that you dominated the game can produce the win, you know, and so in the other instance, you know, you, you see 45 points with whatever and that. And that wins a game. It's just, it's. It can be more of a singular type of effort at times offensively. Right? Like, they're just two different efforts that you're given. How you balance it, you know, I, I don't know. But to be able to dominate a game and win in, you know, in either way, it requires different supporting cast. You know, in the, in the first, again, if you're going to point, if you're going to stat, you know, stuff, we're going to need point production, obviously, from our supporting cast in a way that helps facilitate the win. And in the other situation, we might not need as much point production, but we're going to need someone to do the other things. We're probably going to need somebody to handle the ball and get it to us in our spots. They might be getting the assist. We're going to need someone, you know, to clean up glass and rebound and defend, and they'll get those stats. And so mine will just be reflected, you know, in point production. I don't know if that's a great answer to it. They. They can both be dominant. They both require different supporting casts for that dominant performance to produce a win.

[Logan Murdoch]

What have you seen, Raj? I want to. Game one is a great example of this, though, of, I guess the Pacers run as a whole, but OKC is in control the whole entire game, and at the end, the Pacers just put on the jets and go steal one. That's been the story of their, of their postseason in a lot of ways. Like, is that a sustainable model to win, do you think, like, or. And how have they been able to continue to do that up until this point? And can they do even if they don't play well? Right. They don't have control of game three. They still seem to be in it, but it all, it all. It seems a little scary if you're a Pacers fan.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. Is it sustainable? Yeah, I mean, I guess. So far so good, right? They put. They have three equalizing things as a team, as I see it, especially in the playoffs. They've defended, you know, and they've defended well. They've done that across the playoffs so far from, from start to finish, at least they didn't defend great in the last game as well as I thought they did in the first game. But they also pace as an equalizer and that ability to shoot the three ball and I don't know where they rank in terms of playoff teams, but they've shot it really well in the playoffs. And those three things, especially when you combine those three things, any one of them singularly is an equalizing thing. But like, if you combine the three, it gives you an opportunity to just be around. Just be around. And I almost text you guys in game one. I know it's going to sound corny, we haven't spoken a while, but I almost text you when it was maybe like 13 and you could see, you could see OKC pushing it out to like 18, but then it would be like nine and then, you know, they, they, they, you know, OKC would find it again and it'd be up to like 12 or 14. And you felt like it was going to break to 19 and then it would be at 8. And there was a time in that game I was like, man, this is not. This just feels weird. It feels like they're just letting them live in a way that they shouldn't live. But it's because that pace was flying up and down, they were making shots and they did a good defensive effort on Chet and, and at least Jay Will in that game. And so they were able to pull it out at the end. Do you want to ideally have to pull them all out at the end? No, but you asked me if it's sustainable and they've done it a lot, so it's hard for me to say that it's not.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, no, you think about OKC's offense and think about just first in the offense, right? It can get a little stagnant at times. They can get a little too over reliant on Shay at times, right. Especially when down the stretch of games. And you saw that as well in the second round against Denver. I think it was like game one when whichever game that Denver stole, I believe it was game one. But you know, the real ones can, can correct me, but you see that the susceptibility of OKC to burn leads at the end of the game just because they. Not that they don't have a go to option. They have plenty of go to options down the stretch, but they can get a little stagnant offensively. But I do want to talk about Shea. It seems like he's proven a point in this, in this series, right, where Chet hasn't been great in this series. J you referenced J Dub also hasn't been great from the floor, but there has been a calmness from Shay. He has been proving, you know, his worth as an mvp, a winner. What have you saw from him in this, in this, in this particular series and how has he grown? How has this shown his growth over the last few years?

[Raja Bell]

What have I seen from him this series? I mean, you know, I thought in the first game, to your point, late in the game, walking it up, just holding it at the top of the key. I think he started doing that around the two minute mark. That, that's, that was not ideal. So I think what you've seen is a maturation of a great player who was already great. Obviously he won the mvp, but I think you've seen him continue to mature and the team has as well mature and kind of learn on the fly, right, and then not come out the next night and, and make them the same mistake. You know, I thought that, I thought that he did a much better job in game two. You know, Nemhardt picks him up really early in this series or whoever's guarded him. They don't want him walking it up the court and having it in his hands. And I think that they waited in some instances in game one to get it to him really late in a shot clock. I think they worked earlier in the shot clock in game two to find a way to get it to him. It required him moving a little bit. It required the pieces moving and the ball moving. I thought they did that really well. And honestly, my takeaway from it is just this. When you are a scorer.

[Logan Murdoch]

Of the.

[Raja Bell]

Degree that Shay is a scorer, a la Kobe, Allah Mike, a la Kevin Durant, whoever else you want to put in that very elite level of put the ball in their hands. They can get a bucket guys, it doesn't matter. And they are not affected by the level of defense that is played against them. You might get them for a night. Like, I'm not saying I can't have a good night guard and Kobe, but over the course of time, they're not going to be affected by you. That level of defense, that defensive player of the year candidate, that number all defensive, first team or second team player. He affects J Will, he affects Chet, he affects Halliburton, he affects Siakam. He does not affect Shay. Not over the course of time. You might get him from night to night.

[Logan Murdoch]

What was your favorite.

[Raja Bell]

That is just like, God level of shot making.

[Logan Murdoch]

What was your favorite play for Shay where you were like, God damn. Jesus.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I. I have them on my phone because I send them all to my son Ty, like, in real time. I'm clipping that shit.

[Logan Murdoch]

Bop.

[Raja Bell]

Stopping it, because he's in the other room sometimes watching, and I'm sending them to him. But, like, he's got. He's got his defender in a torture chamber, dude. Like, that's just a torture chamber, I'm telling you. And it all starts with that little, like, if you can picture him at the top of the key with the ball and he takes his right foot and he basically steps across his own body, right? He steps across his own body. And it kind of what it does as a defender is it steps at you, so you've got to kind of react and like, back up just a little bit. But then as he steps, he opens back up. So all he did off the bat was create three feet. That's all he did by stepping across his body and stepping back. I backed up a half step. Now he opened up. There's three feet of space. What the fuck am I going to do as a defender, right? He shoots the three ball now. So, like, all right, I know that he still probably doesn't want to shoot that three, but I got to respect it a little bit. So I'm just going to fractionally creep up and as soon as you move, he's at your feet.

[Logan Murdoch]

And then if you overplay him, he's stopping on a fucking dime and getting into the.

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no. But hear me. He. He is at your feet now. He is at your feet usually, like, and. And what he does phenomenally is as soon as he gets that body contact, it's a. It's a. It's a bump or it's a. Or it's a, A quick stop and change the direction. And as soon as you change direction, right, you've got to open those hips up. And when you open those hips up, he puts that foot in the ground and he steps away from you. It is a, it's a torture chamber. It's really. I don't know what to say. Like, I've just got a few praise for. It's very, very, very frustrating as a defender to watch him. Conversely, on the flip side, like, for young players studying how to like be a true master of a craft, especially in the mid range. I mean, no, him Brunson. Like watch. Just watch and take notes.

[Logan Murdoch]

One question, One more question for you Rising. I want to get to Howard about the finals. What do the other guys on OKC need to do? Like, we just referenced J Dub and Chet. What do you want to see from them in game three and beyond?

[Raja Bell]

Oh, I thought they were, I thought they were good in game two. I think you continue to. Again, we're talking learning real time, like experiencing this in real time and trying to, and trying to get better from game to game. I thought both of them were more aggressive in Game 2, especially Chet. I thought he was more confident. I thought they were, they were more physical and more assertive. And so I would just like to see them continue to do that, like play free, play aggressively and play physically. I think those three things for them, they'll be fine. They're, they're good players. They're a great team. Um, you know, the nerves, if you had any, should be out the window after game one. If not game one, definitely by game two, you're settled into a series. So now in game three, you know, we should be good to go.

[Logan Murdoch]

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[Cliff]

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[Howard Beck]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know you're totally obsessed. Like I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. This episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. You know that moment when you just need to hit pause and refresh? An ice cold Diet Coke isn't just a break. It's your chance to catch your breath and savor a moment that's all about you. Always refreshing. Still the same great taste. Diet Coke make time for you time.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, what have you what have you thought about the presentation of the NBA Finals? That has gotten a lot of a lot of discussion. If you guys want to get a bigger deep dive, go check out our friends at press box who did a really good job of it. But it just seems like the the NBA in itself is on its heels about how they're presenting the NBA Finals as an event, right? And I mean it's it could be a network thing, but it also very well is going to fall on the NBA as a whole, like, there's not the anthem they had. We're having the. The trophy gate on the court controversy, right? Just unnecessary shit that the NBA just tends to get itself into, right? Like, that has nothing to do with the game. But then you're comparing it to the NFL. You're comparing all these. What has it been on the ground? How have you. What. What are. What is the league feeling like on. On the ground right now?

[Howard Beck]

You know what's funny about this? And I'm sure it's been covered. I'm sure it's been written. I haven't read everything. Like, it's.

[Raja Bell]

It's.

[Howard Beck]

It's bonkers during the finals. And so, like, there's so much that I'm missing just being immersed in it that you don't hear everything. I know we have decal gate, trophy gate, logo gate. Why isn't there shit on the floor gate? You know what the funny thing is about not having the finals logo and the Larry o' Brien trophy decals on the court? That shit hasn't been there for like six years already. Like, it's been year. So it's been. I think it was 2019 is what the league told me the last time they had the NBA Finals logo decals actually on the court. So pre Covid, pre bubble, and then the trophy logo decal, that hasn't been on the court since like 2014 or 15. Time is just so compressed now, especially for those of us who have reached a certain age where it's like, it seems like it just disappeared. Like. Like it's this first year. Like, hey, how come it's not there this year? What wasn't there last year? What are you talking about? Wasn't there before? Wasn't it before that? Before that? Wait, 2019. Are you freaking kidding me? So that's weird. Yes, to the point the NBA Finals logo should be on the court. The Larry o' Brien logo should be on the court. Somehow, some way, they need to have it there. Adam Silver's response to this, and he has talked about this in the past. This is not new, people. I know we have to overreact every year, as if this is the first time shit's happened. They have talked about this in the past. They've addressed it in the past, and there's a belief concern that the decals, there's some. Whether if there's condensation or whatever, they're somehow slicker or even without condensation, they're just slippery. Those. Those areas are slipped More slippery on the court than the rest of it. And so the answer would. Would seem to be, well, why can't you just make the courts with that on there? I think it takes something like nine to ten days or whatever to manufacture a new court so you could make the case as others have. And I think our buddy Vinnie Goodwill at Yahoo made this case the other day pre manufacture four finals courts during the conference finals and have the team logos for the. For, you know, for your home court, right? So that it looks like more or less your home court if you're Oklahoma or Indiana or if Minnesota or New York had made it. But make it with the finals logo built in, the trophy logos built in, so that by the time you get to the finals, that shit has shipped to the two cities. And there it is. It's the court. It's your home court, but it's a cooler version of your home court. And it doesn't require decals that may or may not require cause slippage and potentially injuries. We don't have to do this. The stupid, you know, whatever, you know, AI trans. You know, the. The, you know, whatever they're doing to the, you know, the. The trickery with the cameras. I don't know what. What are we calling this anymore? The superimposing of the ads. And they're doing cgi. Csi, cgi.

[Logan Murdoch]

All the eyes, caa.

[Howard Beck]

Um, no, it's like because. Because that look. Because that looks goofy. It's bad enough even during the regular season now because we've got all these ads superimposed when you're watching from home. And like, sometimes guys. Guys like running through the, like the woolen. The Pool and Weed Eater logo. I don't think that's an actual NBA sponsor. I just like saying Pool and Weed Eater was it. That was. Roger's looking at me like I'm insane. Dude, that was like a fucking college football bowl. Like 15 years. You don't remember this? The Pool and Weed Eater Bowl? No.

[Raja Bell]

No.

[Howard Beck]

All right, look it. Look it up, young man. It was there.

[Logan Murdoch]

You're on your own, buddy.

[Howard Beck]

I swear to God, I'm not dreaming this. But it's. It's a thing. If the people say it's a thing, the people watching at home say it's a thing, then it's a thing. And there is an importance to having the Finals look and feel like the Finals. It needs to look and feel bigger. That's why people are nitpicking about it and having entire conversations and columns and talk shows about it. Because Something about it doesn't feel like it's got the gravitas or the urgency that can go to the network as well. Presentation, the way you lead into the game, whether or not you include, you know, not necessarily the anthem, but at least the intros. Like, the intros are a big deal. Like it's, that is part of a buildup of every, anybody who's ever been to a game. And if you've ever watched the 90s bulls when you're hearing that song Serious by the Alan Parsons Project, like that shit gets you pumped even if you're sitting on your couch at home. So yeah, intros need to be part of it. The intros haven't been televised. Right. I'm not, I'm there, so I don't know. No. Easiest thing in the world. Televise the fucking intros. Get the fans at home as hyped as you're trying to get them in the arena. Let them see it and feel it. And yeah, I mean the logos would help too. They, I, I think the league is sensitive to this one and, and actually not sensitive is the wrong word. They're, they're, they understand this. Yeah, not just cognizant, they understand it. I think they agree on principle. They just hadn't really addressed it.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just think there's too many instances of the NBA getting caught flat footed in these types of instances, bro. Like that's, that's the bigger issue here, right, where it just doesn't seem like they are in tune with what the consumer necessarily wants. Or maybe they are, but like it's like we talk about the All Star Game, we talk about the, just the overall presentation in general. There's just too many types of instances with this, with the NBA where it just wasn't before. And I know there's a different type of media apparatus, right, A sports media coverage and a beat on there that are pointing out these things more. But it just seems like they're caught flat footed in way more ways than they should be.

[Howard Beck]

They're not reading the room right. They don't have a feel for their audience sometimes. And obviously, look, the NBA is a marketing machine. Let's not oversimplify this and say that, you know, they're somehow completely, you know, became inept overnight. But there are times that they don't read the room. Well, this is obviously one of them. By the way, there's. This is weirdly a bit of a repeat of speaking of six years ago, 2019, the last time the logos were on the court. That was the year where they had switched to that ugly stupid ass block logo of the NBA Finals. They had gotten rid of the cursive and they had this fucking block logo presented by YouTube. Presented by YouTube. So it could be in a nice little square and all the angles were right and it looked like shit. And we all mocked the fuck out of it in person, on Twitter, on every other platform we could find because it was dumb. We got to the finals and I made sure to catch up with Adam Silver at one point. And I, I don't think I ever printed. I don't think I, I stop it. I don't think I printed the quote because it was like too weird to have it as a standalone. But I said I was asking about other stuff, whatever broad strokes I needed for a bigger story. And I said, by the way, while I got you here, are you aware that people are really kind of pissed off and annoyed that you guys got rid of, like, that cool cursive logo that looks so classy and, and, and, and gives the whole event a certain kind of feel to it? And he, Adam had no idea. And listen, Adam Silver's got a lot of stuff he's got to do as commissioner. He's. It's not his job to like fix logos or pick fonts, right? That's somebody else. But he wasn't really aware. And when I pointed out, he kind of like chuckled and he's like, yeah. I said, this is a big thing. Over years, a lot of us were like hammering this every single year on Twitter. And I do think we finally embarrassed them to the point or made the point on behalf of this, the masses, that you got to change it back. And a few years ago, we got the cursive logo back. So people, if you're mocking them about no logos on the court or the presentation or the lack of introductions and other things being televised, keep hitting them. Because the NBA, they may be a little slow to come around, they may not. They may have misread the room at the outset, but when we all actually pile on, they do kind of respond. And they did with the cursive logo, because they brought it back. It looks fantastic. It never should have been gotten rid of in the first place. And maybe we can get the rest of the fixed too. Just keep it coming.

[Raja Bell]

Pulling Weed Eater Independence Bowl Shreveport, Louisiana 1990-1997 not since 1997. 97.

[Logan Murdoch]

Roger was watching a you back then. He didn't give a fuck about those type of balls he was looking at. He was looking for The Orange bowl, the Cotton Ball. You know what I mean?

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no. I was. No, I was locked in. I was locked into all bows. All bows. All bows. Real talk.

[Logan Murdoch]

All bowls.

[Raja Bell]

Anything. Anything football related, bro. I mean, I don't even watch football.

[Howard Beck]

I don't even watch bowl games. I just thought that that was like the funniest name for a bowl game ever. It's part of why bowl games are stupid. Because they have stupid names like the Pool and Weed Eater brought to you by Doritos.

[Raja Bell]

I'll watch a UFL game like right now. I'll sit there and just watch a. I don't care. You know what's crazy about that whole segment? I didn't know that any of that shit was going on.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was about to ask you if you thought that was important because I was like, let me bring Roger. Is that important at all?

[Raja Bell]

Well, what's, I mean, it's not important to a player at all. No. But like, what's going on? A decal would be slipping on a D for sure. For sure. I mean, if it's a hazard, yes. But like the rest of it, no one gives a fudge what's important to a fan. I mean, I guess, you know, it's all relative. I just, I had no idea that any of that was even taking place. I didn't even know.

[Logan Murdoch]

You don't know.

[Howard Beck]

Cliff says. Tell them. Cliff says in the chat, tell them to fix the All Star Game. They're on that one too, Cliff. They know they're trying. Boy, are they trying.

[Logan Murdoch]

Whatever we think about with the All Star Game, right, like, it's, it's just isn't working. And I think that that's just the biggest thing that I think about. They're getting. They're going to do a fucking U.S. uSA versus the world next year and stuff. There's so many, just different changes. It's like, dude, just figure some shit out.

[Howard Beck]

They're, they're just, they're just grasping at straws. They're just got, dude, we're gonna get a different format for the All Star Game every year for like a 10 year stretch. And at the end of it all they're gonna go like, you know what? Maybe we just shouldn' anymore. Let's just name who the All Stars are and move on with our lives.

[Logan Murdoch]

And Howard's gonna be, that's a good idea. And then we're gonna be like, no. And then, you know, we're gonna move on. Okay, let's, let's move on to the.

[Howard Beck]

Next I'll be retired by then, fellas. I'll be, I'll be done. I won't give a.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hell. Yeah. What the. Are the Knicks doing, Howard? What are the front office doing? What's going on here?

[Howard Beck]

Speaking of flailing. Oh, man.

[Logan Murdoch]

Does it have to be this way?

[Howard Beck]

Doesn't have to be. So wait a minute. We. When, when was we. We haven't done a show since the firing. Is that, Is that the case? Because we were.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Off Friday unexpectedly. Listen, I, I covered this on Zach's pod last week, so I don't want to repeat too much of it, but I, I, this is a really difficult one from my standpoint because I do think it's really startling and very indicative of where we are in the NBA that a coach can lead a team to back to back 51 seasons for the first time in 25 years, go to the conference finals for the first time in 25 years, and then get fired. It is indicative. It is. It is. In the same vein as Taylor Jenkins being fired with a couple of weeks to go with a playoff team and Michael Malone. Stop it, Roger. Do give me that. I never, I never defended it at the time. I just.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yes, you. Did you hear this? Do you hear this?

[Howard Beck]

I just explained what I had heard as to why I explained I did.

[Raja Bell]

Not defend you definitely explained. I will say, though, if I'm being, if I'm being honest, there was a time where I ranted and you did play devil's advocate in the defense of.

[Logan Murdoch]

It and not devil's advocate.

[Raja Bell]

That means ultimately, I don't know how, but that happened.

[Howard Beck]

Is this not a podcast? Do we not play devil's advocate and.

[Logan Murdoch]

Debate things on a podcast?

[Raja Bell]

But that's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's, it's levels that a devil's advocate.

[Howard Beck]

I never said Taylor Jenkins should be fired.

[Raja Bell]

Never.

[Howard Beck]

I never said he should be, nor did I ever say that Michael Malone should be fired. I said, I can understand that this is the context under which they did it, and this is the rationale. And some of that rationale might have some validity to it. I get it. Even if I don't think it's right. I don't. I didn't sign off any of those. Shut up.

[Raja Bell]

That's fair. That's fair. That's fair.

[Logan Murdoch]

It just felt like a little strong devil's advocate. Not the Raja devil's advocate, where he just says it for the sake of saying it. And I don't think he believes it. I Felt like you believed some of it was a.

[Raja Bell]

So it was a. It was a defensive devil's advocate.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, it was a defensive devil.

[Howard Beck]

Listen to the points, but to the point, I thought we were talking about the Knicks. Tibbs led the Knicks to back to back 50 win seasons. First time in 25 years. Tibbs leads them to the conference finals. First time in 25 years. Tibbs presided over their best five year span that they've had in forever. And much of what the Knicks are right now, respectable, competitive, not being pointed and laughed at. He, he should get credit for a lot of that because for 20 years they were being pointed and laughed at.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, you're in a bag right now. You're in a bag.

[Howard Beck]

And so it. I think there's a lot of this that you look at and you think this is nuts except in the context of today, today's NBA and the way coaches are fired, even the way GMs are fired, way that teams act rashly, impulsively, a lot. The Suns, three coaches in three years. Yeah, this is just the NBA. So like the Knicks are no better or worse than anybody else with regard to that. But the Tibbs thing is a little bit complicated, guys. Like I hate to say it, there are some valid criticisms of Tibs. I know we're not supposed to say that, but there are the front office. At least some members of that front office clearly had some of those same concerns. There are times when a coach runs his course with the team. Is that the case here? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not in a position to say that for sure. We have seen plenty of instances where a coach was fired and the next coach got that team further, even to a finals or a championship. That happens sometimes. I don't know if that's going to be the case this time or not. I think the biggest issue here, just to spin it forward, is this. If you fire a coach like Tom Thibodeau, who's clearly very good at what he does and is one of the bigger reasons why they are where they are and have made all this progress, he's not the only one. Right. Jalen Brunson deserves the top three lines on why the Knicks are now good and respectable and not being pointed and laughed at, Jalen Brunson deserves most of the credit. Front office, by the way, is the one who signed Jalen Brunson when nobody saw this version of Jalen Brunson coming. Tibbs presides over his emergence so that you could say who maybe gets credit for his breakout. But the front office went out and got the OG Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges and Carl Anthony Towns and Josh Hart. I mean like they put together a really solid roster that, that enabled them to get here. And Tibbs does what he does and he got the most out of it. I don't think you should be fired for not making the finals. That's silly. I don't think that that's probably the reason. But it's also hard to know because this front office never talks. We will never know what their rationale was except for through sourcing and bland ass press releases that don't tell us shit. So don't expect we're ever going to understand the real truth behind this because those guys will not be accountable ever. They will not sit in front of a microphone ever. But you have to have somebody in mind and they don't like if they're, if the guy they had in mind is Jason Kid. Jason Kidd's under contract and you don't even have a lot of like extra draft capital also.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's not like, that's not an inspiring thing to do. Right?

[Howard Beck]

And he's not an upgrade. Whatever you think of Jason Kidd or Tibbs, you can't tell me that Jason Kidd's a definitive upgrade over Tibbs. He's just different. I don't know that there is a, an obvious answer there, but we're a week since the firing and we still are no closer to knowing who they're going to get. So they didn't fire Tibbs with a, with a clear agenda in mind or we know we have a better alternative in mind. It's just the open search, which. Fine. The next guy who knows might get them further might be the guy who unlocks that offense a little bit more and makes it a little less Jalen Brunson centric. Like there are some valid criticisms on both sides of the ball here and maybe the next coach addresses those and the Knicks front office will look like they made the smart move. As of right now, this list looks a little murky.

[Logan Murdoch]

Roger, what does this do for the continuity of the Knicks?

[Raja Bell]

You did that. You did that on purpose. Look, man, I mean, I have to, I have to admit that today, NBA player slash locker room is way more, it's way more accommodating of change on the fly than it was probably when I played. Like we, we didn't operate in that world as well as some of these players do today. A lot of that has to do with, you know, just the way Kids are raised and, And. And, you know, attention spans, quite frankly, you know, you're only locked in for a certain amount of time anyway, so, you know, having a new voice in there, so on and so forth, I'm sure there's a lot that goes into that. So I don't ultimately know what it does to the Knicks. I would just say, you know, as I said about some of the other firings, we can have criticism, the Tibs and all of that there. It speaks to something big, bigger to me, like, if there was, like, a fundamental disagreement after the season ended, whether whether that be with something Tibbs was doing, whether that had to do with overall personnel, if it had to do with, you know, targets via free agency, I. It. It speaks to a disconnect between someone there and. The reason I say that is because, you know, if. If you're gonna. If you're just gonna fire him because, you know the move that's gonna be made post Tibbs, that's gonna get you to a point where everyone can look at the roadmap and say, yup, this is what we needed. This is definitively an upgrade, and we're gonna. That's one thing. But if you're just going to fire him and we're going to be sitting here a week later, like, well, what the fuck is the plan? Like, what are. What are we doing? That's. That does it. I mean, there seems to be something bigger going on there, right? Like, that's not a. I mean, look, I don't run businesses, so far be it from me, but, like, that doesn't sound like. Like, it just was. Hey, man, we had some concerns with his rotations, and dude said he practiced them really hard. Like, what the fuck are we talking about? You know what I mean? We're talking about the New York Knicks. Dude, that's a billion dollar. Like, what are we. Like, you don't. You just fire him and say, hey, we hope we can get Jason Kidd extracted from the Dallas situation. Yeah, like, that doesn't. It speaks to something we are not.

[Logan Murdoch]

And we're still paying him $30 million and we're still paying $30 million.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, who. I mean, they don't care about that. I mean, again, like, the one thing you could never criticize Dolan over, and there's plenty to criticize him for, but, like, he's always been willing to spend. So if he thinks it's the right move to fire the coach and pay him 30 million for.

[Raja Bell]

No, just.

[Howard Beck]

Just to sit at home, that doesn't affect the fans. It doesn't affect anybody else who cares about the money. I think it's more just the fact that this, this sequence of events doesn't inspire much confidence. It makes it look like they did not have a clear vision in mind when they made this move. And that's the problem. And it could all end up fine. Raja, the question I would have for you, though is just this, like, you know, we all watched what their, you know, we watched this playoff run where it's like they stunned the crap out of the Celtics and it was incredible. Maybe the biggest playoff series victory for the Knicks in, you know, whatever quarter century. There were times where it looked like the Pistons might actually knock them out the first round. They had some struggles there. They lost to the Pacers. When you watch them play, and if you're just thinking, like, you know what, we get to start from scratch, we're going to have a new coach. What kind of coach do they need? And I don't mean just like personality, like, oh, player friendly versus old school. But like, do you, when you're watching them, are you thinking there are other things to unlock here and they need a coach who does? X.

[Raja Bell]

Well, it's a good question. Let me go back and say to any Knicks fans, you know, and I've heard, you know, there are reasons and that can, that can all be true. Like, but, but I would say to you this, I've been sitting here telling you that from a roster perspective, the Knicks could have very easily, you know, after seeing Detroit against them, Cliff was closer to being right than I thought. Like, I came on here and said that they should not have beat the Boston Celtics. They should not. Like, it's not like their roster was so strong and so talent laden that they, that they underachieved. And so, you know, when you ask me what someone could do that Tibbs didn't do, I mean, I'd be, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who, you know, schematically and culturally was better defensively. Like, that's what Tibbs does. So it makes me go to the offensive side of the ball. And then, you know, maybe we can live in a world where we have Brunson being Brunson with less overall usage rate, which would allow some of those other players to, to kind of spread their wings offensively and help in a way. But, you know, then the argument is, well, is Brunson, Brunson with a lesser usage rate? I don't know. I don't have the answer to that. No, Howard, I don't know. Because it's like personnel is personnel.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

So. So unless the coach is coming in with the personnel plan to go with his plan to implement on the court, like, I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

I will say this. And one of the reasons I asked some of the stuff I heard from people last week as I was like kind of poking around and I talked to some coaches around the league and I talked to some folks who had a little bit of insight into what the Knicks were thinking in terms of their concerns. There's definitely a strain of they could get more out of that offense, that Jalen Brunson has the ball in his hands way too long, way too deep in the shot clock. All the analytics show that your efficiency goes way down the deeper into the shot clock that you shoot. And the Knicks, I think were either, either if they weren't 30th, they were really close to the bottom in terms of running the shot clock down to whatever. Whatever that is. They were. They were the most. One of the most consistent shooting late in the shot clock. And that hurts your efficiency. They got Mikhail Bridges, who. And we talked about this all through the season, like, why don't they use Mikhail Bridges a little bit more as, as a creator and a ball handler, secondary playmaker? Because he can do that. He did it in Phoenix. He was miscast as a primary play playmaker in, in Brooklyn because they didn't have anything else. But the dude can do a lot more and we saw that at times, especially when Brunson was out late in the season. They want to see more out of Cat as a fulcrum of the offense and we've seen their ability to do that and his ability to do that. So I do think a different coach can open up different things with this offense. I've absolutely been, I believe that more having talked to some coaches around the league over the course of the last week and some of them even said, one of them particular said flat out like, love Tibbs, respect the hell of what he's done in his career and with the Knicks specifically. But he's coaching like it's still the 90s. And I said, you mean on offense. He says both sides.

[Raja Bell]

Well, I mean that's fair. I'd have to really dig into their tape and be, you know, in a way that I haven't to prepare for this pod to like really give you a. I'll trust to get. To give you a real opinion on it. I'll trust the people that, that you spoke to. I, I Certainly see that offensively. Right. Like, I. I mean, you know, the. The interesting part about it is all those guys played together, like at Villanova, right. And so you think getting them. But Jalen Brunson didn't play like that at Villanova all the time. Like, he's. He's morphed. He's morphed into this. Like, the more, you know, the better of an NBA player he's turned into. Now, I did hear some things, and I don't know how true they are or not. These are just rumblings about, like, you know, dad on staff, having the ear of the coaches, having a little bit of input into how we play offensively. I don't know if any of that's true or not, but, like, certainly I think you could. You could get that ball humming around the court, get. Get more touches for other people, play a little quicker again, you're walking, you're. It's not that Brunson could not do that. It's really not like he. There. He's a. He's an excellent player. He'll be able to play in any way. But is he the same value of player? And if he's not, do those other pieces take steps up in their value to offset what. What you're not getting from Brunson? That's the. That's the equation, like, that you have to figure out. So, you know, I'll trust that. Defensively, I'd be interested to hear the logic behind that. Like, I, you know, I. It might just be, you know, something that I'm. I'm not tapped into, and I. They're better, you know, basketball minds than me. I'd like to see it. I'd like to understand that. I'd be interested in having that conversation with someone.

[Logan Murdoch]

And now it's time for a new segment with the assist presented by State Farm. In basketball, the best players just don't go at it alone. They have teammates, coaches, and a support system that lifts them up and off the court. You still need teammates who are there for you when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. But for now, let's get into some of the greatest assists the game has ever seen. Got this branded segment just before the podcast, and I thought of Howard, Becky, who was at Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals when Kobe threw the alley oop to Shaquille O' Neal. And that was a great assist, very historic assist, and also catapulted the Lakers into the beginning of a dynasty. Howard was in the building. Howard how did you feel seeing that assistant person?

[Howard Beck]

That was one of those rare times in my career where everybody on press row, I think, like moved somewhat. I think J A Dande has actually said he jumped into Bill Plaschke's lap. It's not because he'd be a press row like Laker fans. I'm just saying, like it was one of those just holy moments and it. And it capped off this incredible comeback. They were down 15, opened the fourth quarter at a time when it was really hard to come back from a 15 point lead in the fourth quarter because this wasn't like the three point era that was 15 points back then, would feel like 25 now. And they had already overcome it all. They'd already wiped out the deficit. They were up by maybe three when, when that happens. But you just knew the second that happened it was over. Like Vince Carter dunk contest over. Like that was. That was it. The Blazers were gone, the Lakers were going to go to the finals. And yeah, like that was that. That was the. That was an all time great moment because it wasn't just like a play. It was symbolic of everything that those guys could do when they were actually in sync with each other and of everything that was to come that we didn't know yet, which was a 3 feat.

[Logan Murdoch]

How does it feel being in the building for a type of moment like that? Like, because I remember being In Boston in 22, you were at that game too, when Steph did the Night Night. And like, you see it, I still remember that. That that image is so burned into my head, but I see it from my vantage point as like a play that happens and then you see it get immortalized. What is that for you like now? Right? Because that play is very much immortalized in NBA lore. And now it's like it's something that you just kind of relive every year during the conference finals. Is that weird for you?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, in a way it is. Partially because it's a reminder of how long ago that was. And it doesn't feel that way to me. 25 years goes by at a blink, but it's also just again, it's all the meaning behind it. Like, I've been covering that team for three years at that point, and we didn't know they were going to go win a championship that season under Phil Jackson. They like, they overachieved. They weren't supposed to win 67 games in the championship. It was like, well, Phil's coming in, but it takes time to learn the triangle And Shaq and Kobe still have to figure their out. And so when I see that play now, those replays, which, you know are on like a loop for every, like, reel of all NBA, all time great postseason moments, to me, it's just a reminder of, like, what that era ultimately was and who those guys were at their best and when they weren't fighting with each other. And so it is. It is probably my favorite moment that I've ever been present for. And again, I'm saying this as somebody who's like, I'm not a Laker fan. I'm not a fan of any NBA team. It's just the meaning in that moment and also just the impact of that moment and the explosion at Staples center in that moment is just something you can never forget.

[Logan Murdoch]

And how did that catapult them into dominance into the next year when they have to play against Rajah Sixers?

[Howard Beck]

Well, it's funny.

[Raja Bell]

Damn.

[Howard Beck]

It's funny you mentioned that. It's funny you mentioned that because even though there's been a couple of other game one upsets in the finals where the road team won, the last time I was that shocked At a game one result was Raja Sixers beating the Lakers in 2001.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

And so. But the flip side of that was the Lakers then stomped Raj's team four times in a row. And it wouldn't surprise me if that's history repeating this year because the Thunder are good enough to do that. I don't think the gap is quite as big. There's no Shaq and Kobe, but Shea's amazing and their defense is suffocating. And yeah, I know as soon as the Pacers won that game, everybody's like, oh, it's gonna be a long series now. It's gonna go six or seven games. I think there's also still the possibility that our, all of us who called it Thunder and five could still end up being right. I'm not, you know, I'm less confident about that now, of course, than I was before the series started. But I just think it's an interesting thing to remember because when the Sixers won that game, Raj, I'm sure you guys all thought, yeah, man, we're in this thing. We're here to shock the world. Which was like the big. I think AI might have said it back then. I think Reggie said it one year like that was a big thing back in the 2000s for the, the underdog team to say, we're here to shock the world. We don't know what he Believes in us.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, no, we thought. I mean, we thought. We thought we definitely got a shot and real talk in game two. I don't remember exactly how it played out, but we had our chances in that game. And I think George lynch got injured and shit happened. They were a really good team, but. Yeah, why are you bringing back old shit, bro?

[Howard Beck]

That's Logan's fault. I'm just answering questions.

[Logan Murdoch]

Raja, Howard, what up? It's no secret that great teams need great teammates. And when it comes to insurance, State Farm is there to help you navigate the right coverage for your home car and more. Whether you need an in person or digital assist, they are ready when Life hits you with a full court press. Get a game plan that fits your life and talk to State Farm today. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. And now it is time for Mailbag. And now that I have Cliff and Raja on the line, Gotta talk. We just gotta do a quick ruin of the week, man. Like, it's a rare one, but, like, man, our Guy Bubba Chuck, 50 years old. Oh, is he 50 years old? So he celebrated with a Yankee, fitted a suit jacket with a white tee underneath, white tea. Listening to. Was listening to Jeezy. Like, he just had some questions on.

[E]

Probably had some questions on.

[Raja Bell]

There you go.

[Logan Murdoch]

When I say. When I say II is 50 years old. What comes to mind, Roger. Like, is it like, wow, I'm getting old? Or is it like, what? What is it like?

[Raja Bell]

No, yeah, that's. That we. We are old. I mean, you know, that's what. That's what comes to mind. I mean, I just flashes me back, right? But I was telling somebody this the other day. He was a younger kid, but he was looking at my kids, saying, damn, I can't believe, you know, they're in here about to go away to college because he knew them when he was in high school and they were little guys, you know, it feels like yesterday, you know, in some moments, and then it feels like a lifetime ago in other moments. So, like, yeah, man. Pretty, pretty. Pretty crazy that. That man's 50, bro. But I was blessed to have an opportunity to play with him, obviously, and then, you know, play against him for as long as I did.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, okay. Cliff Howard has to get on a PJ to. To Indianapolis. Let's keep this.

[Howard Beck]

Dj, my ass.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's keep this.

[E]

We got.

[Logan Murdoch]

We got to get in the team.

[E]

Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Let's go. Get my middle seat neat pretzels, man. How?

[Logan Murdoch]

How?

[E]

We gotta get to Teterboro Howard, I got you.

[Raja Bell]

Wheels up, let's go.

[E]

All right, this first, shout out to Teeter bro. Shout out to Teeterborough. This first one is from Kevin Monahan. Cliff, exclamation point. What up? Real ones. Should the spurs take a flyer on kd, they can keep their core and still trade for him. Is that something Wimby would want? And does it make them a contender immediately? Also? Roger, circa 2001, 2002, I remember seeing you in Fat Farm velour outfit walking into pcom. So don't front like the average with your style. Thanks, Kev from Philly. Sent for my iPhone.

[Logan Murdoch]

Talking that talk.

[Raja Bell]

No, but like, yeah, that damn PCOM is real talk. But like Fat Farm, they all used to make velours back then. It was like Fat Farm. Sean John, Sean John, Nietzsche, Rockaware, Avery. My leather, My leathers were mostly Ava Rex Dog. For clarification, the leather's remotely average. Yeah, y' all can take the 1B, huh?

[Logan Murdoch]

Do you think Beck had an average? Maybe. Moving on. I would say why not take the flyer on kd, right? But I don't think it makes them a contender necessarily. I think that this might get clipped and sent to him. You know, I might get some. You know, all of us might get like a group dm just motherfucking us. But like, hey, whatever. I don't think it necessarily makes them a contender. I don't think that they're, they're. The spurs are ready for that yet. And it's hard to even if you have KD. Like LeBron went to the Cavs in 2014, and it took a long time for the guy, the other guys, the younger guys, to understand what it meant to play at a high level environment. Right? And that was prime LeBron. And you're talking about getting Kevin, who's what, 18th, 19th year to kind of not only galvanize the team, but he's not going to be the number one option. And your best player on the team still needs to figure out how to play in a contender like environment. So I don't think it's going to make them a contender necessarily if or if he goes there. But I'll be. It'll be hella tight to see it. You know, two unicorns on one team, that'd be cool.

[Howard Beck]

He's turning 37 in September. And so the thing I keep saying about this looming Sun's trade that we're all expecting, wherever he goes, you're trading for him for a one to two year window. Really? I mean, I know we're in an era when LeBron can still be amazing at 40 and everything, but like, this is a one to two year window for. For the next team with Durant, so you better be one 37 year old Kevin Durant away from contention if that's the goal. And I don't know that the spurs are quite there yet. I kind of like it anyway, though. Like, it'd be just be fun to see him and Wemby together and listen, the Suns are not going to recoup anywhere near what they sent out to get Kevin Durant. That's clear. And I don't know what they are going to get, but it may not cost nearly as much to get him as people think, because again, and I hate to keep harping on it, but he's 37 in September, which is why.

[Logan Murdoch]

He'S not the person to trade.

[Howard Beck]

I don't.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, which is why he's. The sun shouldn't just trade him. They need to trade Devin Booker because you're not going to get anything for Katie.

[Howard Beck]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And they won't. And they keep saying it, Nishpia keeps saying it, but that is absolutely the move for them right now because you're not getting enough for Durant to get help for Booker to be a contender again. It's just not happening. And they've got a lot more work to do and by the time they get all that stuff done, Booker's going to be moving out of his prime. So.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, by the way, ISHB is talking a lot of shit about how he doesn't really hold influence in the front office and that he's going to listen to other people while, like, literally no one lies at our face more than that ISHP these days. Anyway. Go ahead, Cliff. Next question.

[E]

Let's get Howard.

[Logan Murdoch]

Peter Burns awaits.

[E]

Let's get Howard over there. All right, real ones. What up, Real ones. This is Edward from the south side of San Antonio. My question is, with championship windows closing faster and faster due to cba, what playoff exit team needs to make moves faster? The faster. Whoa. To make moves the faster. And what team can wait?

[Howard Beck]

What teams, he's saying basically, because the CBA is forcing teams to break up so soon now.

[E]

Yeah, who.

[Howard Beck]

Who needs to get it done immediately before they get broken up by second apron? And who can wait? I. I think of like the Pistons and the Grizzlies as teams that are like, they're still young enough and like, not like the. I mean, like, the Grizzlies have already Paid guys. But like, the Pistons haven't. Right. Like, the Pistons are. Okay. Urgency. You could say it was going to be the Celtics, but now Tatum's out. So, like, they're going to probably, you know, take two steps back anyway this coming season. They're going to trade some guys. They're going to try to get their cap. Right. While Tatum's out because they're not a contender anyway. The warriors absolutely have urgency on both the age and CBA fronts. The Knicks have. Have urgency for sure. Maybe that's part of why Tibbs was. Was fired last week. But like, the. The Knicks have an extraordinarily expensive payroll because, you know, Brunson maybe, you know, he took his quote unquote discount, but he's making a ton. Townsend making a ton. OG Anunoby's making a ton of. And the Cavs. The Cavs are on that list, too. There's plenty of buzz around the league about how long they can keep that foursome together.

[Logan Murdoch]

I would say Houston, because, like, if they don't get Giannis, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think that they'll still be, you know, they still have flexibility to get somebody else should be Devin Booker, but, you know, whatever. But like, I think that's a team. If you were to say a team that could. That could afford to wait because they do have a good team, that would really. And then amen is just going to be great. If Amin turns into what RA expects him to be, what I expect him to be, what a lot of people are on the league expects them to be, they should be in good shape. So. Yeah. What's the last question?

[E]

The final. You want to get to the final one or you want to get Howard off to the jet? It's kind of long, boy.

[Raja Bell]

Got wheels up, dog. What's wheels up?

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, Beck, you got a dip.

[Howard Beck]

Can we do one more? We'll squeeze it in.

[E]

Okay. All right, so bear with me on this one. Let me see here. All right, this is from Cedric Art. Love the show. Good evening. I'm a special ed teacher in San Diego area. First and foremost, I love your podcast. Listen to it all the time. Shout out to Logan, Howard and Raja. All right, three quick questions I wanted to ask about. Trade room was mainly focusing on the Lakers in Phoenix. Phoenix looks like Devin Booker has the green light in some major hands in choosing the next head coach. And Phoenix, assuming that Kevin Durant is gone next year, especially after they put him on a trading block towards the end of the trade deadline. Where do you think Kevin Durant is headed, assuming he won't be in Phoenix next year? And for Phoenix, what player or players would be a good fit to pair with Devin Booker for the Lakers? There's a rumor that the Lakers are looking to give Bronny a more consistent regular role on that team next year. What players do you see the Lakers targeting to be a championship caliber team? I know they still need a viable big man. Thanks. Love the show, Cedric.

[Howard Beck]

Cedric's been on, like, subreddits way too long. If he's hearing rumors that they're trying to carve out a major role for or more role for, like, whatever we should.

[Raja Bell]

Ronnie's ready, baby. Bronnie's ready. Let's go. I've seen the training videos. I seen them.

[E]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I'm just.

[Logan Murdoch]

The Ben Simmons three point.

[E]

He don't. Ben Simmons.

[Raja Bell]

Brownie.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yo.

[E]

Bronnie's. Brownie's nice. He's a good, young, athletic.

[Raja Bell]

Oh, I'm not clowning. That man's been working well.

[E]

I'm talking to Logan. I'm talking to Logan. He trying to play.

[Logan Murdoch]

Roger's clowning, too. It's fine.

[Raja Bell]

He just, you know, listen, if you don't think that they're going to try to get him on the court more, you're crazy. Like, whether that works out or not, I don't know. But, like, he's been working. They're trying to get. He's. He's. Look, all he can do is work, right? Like, people like you got to get your tail in the gym and work and try to get better, and then they're going to try to get him.

[Logan Murdoch]

Out there telling you, I. I got.

[E]

Bronnie at eight points per game next.

[Logan Murdoch]

Season wearing a G league. Yo, Howard. Howard.

[Howard Beck]

That was. That was just me.

[Logan Murdoch]

Wow.

[Raja Bell]

Yes. I'm saying wow.

[Logan Murdoch]

Is he gonna get enough shots to get. Is he gonna get enough shots to get eight points a game? No. Anyways. In the NBA. No. Howard, do you want to get. Al, do you want to get algorithmic. What the fuck? Just it up, bro. I was too tired.

[Howard Beck]

Keep that, Cliff.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, Keep that part.

[Howard Beck]

It was. I thought you were buffering again.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was. Do you want to get. Do you want to get aggregated or you want me to get aggregated?

[Howard Beck]

You get aggregated. I don't need to get aggregated again. I've done enough.

[Logan Murdoch]

Who do I. I don't know where he's going, but I think that Durant. Durant. I don't know where he is.

[Howard Beck]

I Have. Dude, I have no good guess, really.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean, Gambo and Phoenix, who was pretty locked in on Phoenix, said that like his friend, Kevin's friend, he told a friend that told him that he's going to San Antonio. But like, I don't know. I, I give the credence because Gambo is like, usually on his shit. So, like, I'm not. So I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

I don't, I don't think there's a clear, obvious landing spot. There's a bunch of places that kind of make sense, but again, like, we don't know how much anybody's willing to give up for him at this age of his career knowing that he's a short term rental.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I saw Stein put out like Toronto, but then like, is Toronto really trying to win if they go get.

[Howard Beck]

Kevin's not a Kevin Durant away from like, contending again.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right, Exactly. Like, I don't know, I just feel like it's all sad that like a guy that's as great as KD is going out like this. That's. That's all I got for that question.

[Howard Beck]

I wanted him to. I, I wish he would have accepted that trade. I mean, I think the warriors did great with Jimmy Butler, but like, I wanted him to accept that trade that was proposed to him at the trade deadline.

[Logan Murdoch]

But you understand why he did it though, right?

[Howard Beck]

Like, I, I don't care. I, I just, I'm just saying if there's somewhere that made sense for him, that made a lot of sense, and they could have gone pretty far with him, I think. I don't know if you're beating Thunder, but whatever. Like, I, how many other places could you say he makes sense for right now and then they have at least a chance to make the finals with him and don't have to give up too much to get him or have enough left over after they've get, like, it's, it's hard. I don't have a good guess for this.

[Logan Murdoch]

See, the apron fucks up everything. Howard, the apron fucks up everything.

[Howard Beck]

No, Kevin Durant being 37 years old and needing to be traded, like, that's the bottom line. Like, wherever. It doesn't even. It's not even an apron issue that.

[E]

Hurts KD for Paul George. Just do it.

[Howard Beck]

You wish.

[Logan Murdoch]

Wait, Cliff, you just fuck out of here, bro. We're not going to do this. All right? We'll do this in the pre. In the post pod meeting. Roger's falling asleep. Howard has to catch a flight. We'll see you guys on Friday. That's been another edition of Real Ones. All the Shits. Talk to you guys soon. Real ones. Mailbag gmail.com we're answering your Mailbag questions on Friday. Talk to you soon. Ah, all the Shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino. For 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rghelp.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY PROTECTS HOPE.