Young Core Rankings, Part 2. Plus, the NBA’s Best Blue-Chip Prospects. | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: Group Chat — "Young Core Rankings, Part 2. Plus, the NBA’s Best Blue-Chip Prospects."

Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann

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Episode Overview

The Ringer NBA Show’s “Group Chat” crew continues its deep dive into the state of the league’s best young cores, picking up where their previous installment left off. In this second episode, Verrier, Mahoney, and Mann work their way through the top half of the NBA’s "young core" rankings—defined as all players under 25, using Basketball Reference's age-24 season cutoff—and hash out the best blue-chip prospects in the league. The discussion is lively, packed with inside jokes, digressions, and rapid-fire analysis as the group debates nuances ranging from team-building philosophy to specific prospect ceilings.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: What Makes a "Blue-Chip" Prospect?

[01:01–03:22]

• The team recaps how they arrived at a common definition of “blue chipper”: not just the best young players, but those with the most promising futures.
• Players must be under 25; depth and high-end star power are weighed as each analyst sees fit.
• The episode will move from 15 up to 1 in young core rankings, then shift to ranking the 15 best individual blue-chip prospects in the league.

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#15 - New Orleans Pelicans: Promising, But Early

[04:46–13:40]

• Pelicans’ core of Derek Queen ("a maybe, not a blue chipper") and Jeremiah Fears analyzed.
• Queen seen as potentially "the most promising hub option" among young bigs, yet his upside has significant volatility.
  • “I think he absolutely has a chance to flirt with All-Star, which I think would make him a blue chipper. He's been sensational.” – Mann [06:41]
• Discussion on Fears’ creativity and “ability to manipulate space and time.”
  • “He just dribbles so effortlessly and gets the spots on the floor wherever he wants.” – Mahoney [07:37]
• Skepticism about former hopefuls like Jordan Hawkins, whose shooting hasn’t panned out.
  • “Two years of subpar shooting and he's a shooter who is 100 pounds soaking wet. It's not going to work if he can't shoot.” – Verrier [11:51]
• Fit questions between Fears/Queen, but excitement about their energy and marketability for New Orleans.

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#14 - Utah Jazz: The Depth, Not the Highs

[13:40–19:02]

• Utah “has a metric [ton] of recent first rounders” but few standouts; Ace Bailey is the most intriguing.
• Cody Williams (10th pick) has “shown no reason to think that he is an NBA player yet.” – Mahoney [14:31]
• Keonte George's diversification as a scorer and off-ball mover noted.
• Ace Bailey likened to a “giant athlete who could probably be a lights out shooter,” but is still finding his role.
• Jazz embody the "quarters" approach—lots of decent prospects, but lack a "dollar" blue-chipper.

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#13 - Philadelphia 76ers: Thin But Top-Heavy

[19:02–24:54]

• Only serious maybe blue-chipper: VJ Edgecombe ("irresistible energy, high floor") after flashes as a rookie.
  • “I'm having to like pump the brakes for myself with VJ Edgecombe.” – Mahoney [19:47]
• Jared McCain’s defensive liabilities and social media presence briefly lampooned.
• Justin Edwards, Dominic Barlow, Adem Bona, and Jabari Walker as the “Sixers randos” with Barlow as the current favorite.

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#12 - Cleveland Cavaliers: Evan Mobley, Clear Blue-Chip Centerpiece

[25:06–30:22]

• Mobley is a consensus blue chipper—defensive player of the year, still just 24.
• Question of whether fans will ever be content given his immense potential and high expectations.
  • “Will we ever be content with Mobley’s progression, or do we just think so highly of what he could be that he'll never actually make that?” – Verrier [26:10]
• Jaylon Tyson’s emergence as a driver who plays with abandon is a pleasant surprise.

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#11 - Washington Wizards: Lottery Hopes & Volatility

[30:24–39:49]

• Alex Sarr (“deep maybe, but a guy I feel strongly about”) headlines a grab-bag of prospects.
• Cam Whitmore benched for “conduct unbecoming of a Wizard.”
• Key debate: Sarr’s pathway vs. Khalil Ware; Sarr remains a higher-floor prospect due to rim protection, improved finishing, and emerging passing.
• Bub Carrington and Keyshawn George have flashed, but the depth is leading to cannibalized opportunities.
• “I’m not super worried about the Wizards. ...Ultimately, Sarr and Keyshawn are showing real development. Everything else is playing with house money.” – Mahoney [39:04]

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#10 - Toronto Raptors: Barnes Headlines a Versatile Group

[41:58–47:25]

• Scotty Barnes: “blue chipper, baby”—playing at All-Star/All-NBA level; defensive impact emphasized.
  • “He’s probably going to be on the ballot for Defensive Player of the Year if he keeps playing like this.” – Verrier [42:06]
• Colin Murray-Boyles, Jamal Shead, Jacoby Walter discussed as valuable supporting pieces.
• “There's something to recommend about almost every young player the Raptors have.” – Mahoney [44:51]
• Discussion of synergy and potential trade value for Toronto’s collection.

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#9 - Charlotte Hornets: Plenty of Maybes, One Connective Star?

[47:25–54:13]

• Con Knipple (“a connective superstar in a lot of ways”) praised as the most steady and scalable talent.
  • “I just think that the basic things, he doesn't need to be disabused about what he does. He knows, he does it consistently.” – Mann [48:34]
• Brandon Miller’s injuries, diminished spotlight discussed—but his tools and fit alongside Knipple inspire confidence.
• LaMelo Ball: immense talent, “but he does a lot of dumb stuff.” [52:56]
• The hosts struggle to elevate any Hornet to clear blue-chip status, but Knipple is “flirting with” it.

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#8 - Minnesota Timberwolves: Anthony Edwards and the Rest

[56:01–59:10]

• “Anthony Edwards. That’s all they fucking need.” – Verrier [56:08]
• Wolves’ entire ranking based on Ant; “nailed down the one and most important thing”—a franchise guy.
  • “The certainty of who [Edwards] is now is so great.” – Mahoney [58:00]
• Johan Berenger and Jalen Clark acknowledged as rotation-quality assets.
• Rob Dillingham discussed as a polarizing prospect whose fit with the Wolves is unclear.

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#7 - Dallas Mavericks: Cooper Flag, Depth Rises

[59:10–64:48]

• Cooper Flag: “as blue-chip as they come.”
• Debate over why Mavs rank above Wolves (depth with Max Christie, Ryan Nembhard, plus a solid if concerning Derek Lively).
• Lively’s injuries cause concern (“grimacing” at long-term outlook), but opened minutes for Flag to shine.

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#6 - Atlanta Hawks: Jalen Johnson’s Star Leap

[64:50–69:33]

• Jalen Johnson: “22, 10, and 8” guy; “thumper energy … come along further, faster than I ever could have anticipated.” – Mahoney [65:36]
• Dyson Daniels praised defensively, but his offensive “flow-killing” reluctance to shoot threes is a problem.
• Rishachet and supporting group have flashes but lack consistency; questions about upside.

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#5 - Orlando Magic: Two Franchise Talents, Fit Questions

[69:33–77:06]

• Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner: both on blue-chip watch, but the pod splits on whether both belong.
• Discussion about Paolo’s deliberate style vs. fitting into flow—“can they fit together to be a contending level team?”
• Jalen Suggs, Anthony Black, and Jet Howard round out a well-stocked core with few “misses.”

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#4 - Houston Rockets: Two Core Blues, Unmatched Depth

[78:19–84:41]

• Alperen Sengun and Amen Thompson are both blue chippers; Rockets' depth (Jabari Smith, Reed, Tari Eason) unmatched.
  • “A team with all those guys is not even in the top three ... and yet it’s right.” – Mann [79:14]
• Sengun’s passing and defense have both quantum leaped.
  • “His ability to manage and orchestrate offense has just hit a totally different level.” – Mahoney [81:45]
• Jabari Smith’s “quietly happening” defensive impact highlighted.

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#3 - Detroit Pistons: Cade is Him, Duren on the Rise

[84:41–92:06]

• Cade Cunningham: “one of the three with potential MVP mold” (the other two being Ant and Wemby).
  • “If he's both [an offensive engine and an impact defender], he really is a unicorn in himself.” – Mahoney [88:42]
• Jalen Duren is solidly in blue-chip tier (though the pod splits on whether he’s a locked-in blue).
  • “He’s already this good and that young and has so much room to grow.” – Mahoney [86:54]
• Supporting maybes: Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland, Ausar Thompson, Beef Stew—all “could be top-100 guys.”

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#2 - Oklahoma City Thunder: The Mouse Ladder of Talent

[92:24–98:36]

• Two consensus blue chippers: Jalen Williams (J-Dub) and Chet Holmgren.
• Massive depth, with a “shadow generation” (AJ Mitchell, Topic, Sorber) behind them.
  • “The abundance [of talent] is unbelievable.” – Verrier [93:59]
• Chet’s streamlined role fits perfectly; debate on what he could be in another setting.
• On OKC’s internal competition: “It's like, you put a bunch of mice in a bucket together ... instead they just built a little mouse ladder and they're all climbing out together.” – Mahoney [96:42]
• Intrigue over how their players will fare if traded out of OKC’s system.

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#1 - San Antonio Spurs: Wembanyama, Castle, Harper = Dynasty Core

[98:38–103:48]

• Wemby is the “bluest blue chipper” imaginable; universally would be the first pick to start a franchise.
• Stephon Castle (“guile performance, blowing away any baseline for what he could be”) and Dylan Harper (“inimitable quality for a ball handler”) both in the blue-chip conversation.
  • “I think every team might pick Victor Wembanyama as the guy to restart a franchise with.” – Mahoney [100:28]
• Carter Bryant and Jeremy Sochan (top-100 potential) are luxury depth.
• “It's just a stunning collection of talent … a rock-solid title piece, high-level superstar sort of guys.” – Verrier [101:03]
• Debated whether both Castle and Harper are truly top-15 "blue" prospects—jury’s out; Harper clears, Castle on the cusp.

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Blue-Chip Prospect Final Rankings Segment

[103:52–111:26]

The pod closes with everyone picking their personal All-NBA-style teams (not just top 15, but “1st team, 2nd team, 3rd team”):

1st Team (General Consensus)

• Victor Wembanyama
• Anthony Edwards
• Cade Cunningham
• Chet Holmgren
• Cooper Flagg

2nd Team (General Consensus, with minor variation)

• Amen Thompson
• Jalen Williams (J-Dub)
• Evan Mobley
• Jalen Johnson
• Dylan Harper

3rd Team (More Disparate)

• Alperen Sengun
• Scottie Barnes
• Jalen Duren
• Paolo Banchero
• Stefan Castle (or Franz Wagner—Castle getting the nod for blue-chip potential)

Notable Omissions / Fringe Maybes:

• VJ Edgecombe, Con Knipple, Franz Wagner

“Blue chipper’s tough—means top 15 for you. ...I think the only guys in this group that fit [the franchise-changing] bill are Vic, Ant, and Cade.” – Mann [106:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Anthony Edwards. That’s all they fucking need.” – Verrier, [56:08]
• “Will we ever be content with Mobley’s progression, or do we just think so highly of what he could be that he'll never actually make that?” – Verrier, [26:10]
• “It's like, you put a bunch of mice in a bucket together ... instead they just built a little mouse ladder and they're all climbing out together...” – Mahoney, [96:42]
• “If you're both [a primary offensive engine and an impact defender], you are a unicorn in yourself.” – Mahoney, [88:42]
• “It's just a stunning collection of talent and it's all within our age bracket somehow as a young core.” – Mahoney, [101:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:01 – Defining “blue chipper” & young core parameters
• 04:46 – Pelicans analysis
• 13:40 – Utah Jazz in team-building purgatory
• 19:02 – Sixers, VJ Edgecombe’s emergence
• 25:06 – Mobley as lead blue-chipper, Cavs vs “quarters” approach
• 30:24 – Wizards’ asset jumble and Sarr talk
• 41:58 – Scotty Barnes, Raptors young defensive core
• 47:25 – Hornets and the enigmatic Con Knipple, LaMelo’s trajectory
• 56:01 – Wolves (Anthony Edwards) sharp divergence from the depth teams
• 59:10 – Dallas Mavs Cooper Flag-centric core
• 64:50 – Hawks, Jalen Johnson’s star burst
• 69:33 – Magic: can Paolo & Franz fit vs. pure individual value?
• 78:19 – Rockets: Two blues, immense depth
• 84:41 – Pistons: Cade’s elite defense/offense duality
• 92:24 – Thunder: Depth, fit, and the “mouse ladder” metaphor
• 98:38 – Spurs’ Wemby/Harper/Castle trio, dynasty potential
• 103:52 – Final blue-chip rankings (“All-NBA prospect teams”)
• 110:00–111:18 – Each host gives his personal “team” of blue-chip prospects
• 111:45 – End-of-show banter, gratitude to producers

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Tone & Style

• Witty, self-deprecating, and conversational, riddled with inside jokes ("beef Bourgignon" comparisons, Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter asides).
• Playful but rigorous, with hosts holding each other accountable for suspect takes.
• Willingness to challenge each other's rankings, but always with a sense of camaraderie and curiosity.

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For New Listeners: Who Should Listen?

This episode is essential for NBA fans interested in:

• Deep prospect and team-building analysis.
• Understanding how the future of the league is being shaped by recent drafts and development.
• The specific qualities that differentiate “just good” from “franchise-changing” young talents.

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Key Takeaways

• The young talent in the NBA is deeper and more diverse than ever—team-building questions hinge not just on star power but on fit, volatility, and developmental context.
• Clear blue-chip prospects (Wemby, Ant, Cade, Chet, etc.) are few, but the competition among "maybes" is fierce.
• Teams like the Thunder and Spurs have built not just cores, but potential dynasties—with remarkable flexibility and internal competition as their secret sauce.
• The hosts’ All-NBA-style blue-chip prospect teams offer a new lens for fans to evaluate “who’s next” beyond the current stars.

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For feedback, takes, or to roast Justin for his Mortal Kombat/Chun-Li mix-up: Email the show or tweet the hosts.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior and sitting before me, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle Mann, here for part two of the Young Core Rankings, the inaugural Young Core Rankings. How you feeling after part one?

[A]

Younger? Oh, I just feel full of energy, vim and vigor. You know, I just, I feel the spirit of basketball flowing through me. So I'm really glad that we chose to do this.

[C]

Vim and vigor, piss and vinegar. I'm feeling it all, man. I'm feeling stronger by the moment, encouraged by this crop. Basketball's in good hands, dare I say, looking at the talent that we have across the board and we haven't even.

[A]

Gotten to the good hands yet.

[B]

I know we, I don't think we got a single blue chipper. We got a bunch of maybes in terms of our search for the 15 best prospects in the NBA, but we did.

[A]

Justin, dare I say an hour and 30 minutes into the podcast, finally iron out the differences in what you were identifying as a blue chipper and I was identifying as a blue chipper. So let us move forward with this common ground.

[B]

Yes. This should fly from here. I'm sure there will be nothing to slow us down here. So just to reiterate from the first pod, if you didn't listen to that, you're more interested in the top dogs. I think that the first time was pretty good. So you should go and do that if you want to find out what multiple Kobe's are doing in the NBA in their futures. So Young Core rankings first started a couple years ago with Zach Cram doing a stats model. Kyle went and helped him out. Now we're going to do our own version of it. We ranked the top 30 teams, or we ranked all the teams 1 to 30 based on their young cores, which we're designating as all players under the age of 25 as designated by basketball references, age 24 season. So if you are 25 right now, no mas, you're not included. Also if you are 25, sooner than later, also not included.

[A]

Doesn't count.

[B]

So if you're thinking of certain players in your head who tired maxi. Yes.

[A]

Doesn't count. Doesn't count.

[C]

So if you're mid. If you were angrily, my God, I'm gonna start. If you were typing that message out.

[A]

I know they were doing it like I could.

[B]

We could. They're doing it right now.

[A]

You're doing it right now. You're welcome to send any other angry messages you want, just not that angry message.

[C]

There was an angry mob coming up. The street I saw from a distance and they heard this and they were like. And they just turned around and wandered home aimlessly. So you love to see it. So hopefully we don't get killed. We might still get killed based on these rankings, but you know, just life.

[B]

We'll also have all of the players for each team up on the screen. If you're watching this, preferably on Spotify in the video app, so you could see which players for each team are going to be involved here and we're going to talk through most of them. Other than that, no parameters. You could weigh depth. More importantly, you could weigh one blue chip star prospect more than anything. It's up to you. It's America, baby. And then at the end of this episode, we're going to go through and discuss, as I mentioned, the 15 blue chip prospects in the NBA. We'll mark them as we're going, but the basic idea is not best players. These are the guys best futures from here on out. Yeah, right. We'll also talk about maybes. We'll also talk about guys. We'll also talk about maybe guys. There's a lot of confusion in the midst there, but we're going to give you, at the end of this, the players version, but we're going to do the teams first. Anything else here? We cover everything.

[A]

Let's get into it.

[B]

Let's rock it.

[C]

If you've listened to one, you know the game you're on.

[B]

Two, you guys are smart out there.

[C]

You know what's going on.

[B]

You're a group chat listener. You know what the deal is. We talk about inane things in young players. The Ringer NBA show is presented by FanDuel. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you could build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on holiday offers and surprises all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com/ringer MBA to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by. Indeed. If you want to build an amazing team for your business just like the one we have here behind our show, try Indeed. Indeed. Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and reach candidates with the skills you're looking for. Faster. Over a million businesses sponsor their jobs with indeed. 1.6 million to be exact. See for yourself. Why so many trust Indeed to get them the results they want. Listeners for the show can get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com ringermba Terms and conditions apply. Number 15 here. Just to kick us off the New Orleans Pelicans a team. We just did a of bunch mighty segment about that kept Kyle up to all hours of the night, unfortunately.

[A]

How do you feel about that, Kyle? Did you feel like that was a good use of your time and sacrificing of sleep?

[C]

I just want to emphasize if you go back and watch that pod, I feel and look like death. Every time that I spoke, I sounded like Count Orlok. It was like Derek on the left side. I sounded and looked awful. So I'm sorry. In the future I'm just going to be honest because there's a thing about like trying to keep it together on podcasts. I think that is just kind of bullshit. You know, we were talking about like we're gonna be honest with you guys from now on. So anyway, yes, I. That it was the lateness and the sickness. I was. I was in bad shape on this.

[A]

Well, to be honest with you, we just lost all of our Transylvania listeners. So thanks a lot, Kyle.

[B]

This is the debate Rob and I often have because I. I am very honest with the listeners. I hold nothing back. I. I'm more honest with our listeners than I am with my own family.

[A]

Why am I being put on the side of like lying? I'm not pro lying.

[B]

You just like, you have more of a brand to manage and you're very careful.

[A]

I have zero brand to manage. I just don't think you should accost people.

[B]

No, you. Well, we could debate as well, but no, Rob is very careful about revealing things about it. It's just more of a personal preference.

[A]

Oh, sure, that's true. Yeah.

[C]

Whereas Justin is just going into parks in trench coats and just opening. You know, he likes to reveal himself.

[B]

It's true. Anything is available. But we talked at length about Derek Queen. A little bit about Derek Favors in that one. So Queen I have as a. Maybe we should mark here. Do you guys have him as we.

[C]

Talked about Derek Favors?

[A]

Yeah. Wait, what? What did I say that we talked about Derek Favors?

[B]

Should I take that again? No, no, you said because I'm honest.

[C]

Where did your brain go, people?

[B]

I think because I saw the f.

[A]

Well, in the Pelicans brain too.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Legend Derek Queen. I have as A maybe not as a blue chipper. Do you guys have a blue chip on him?

[A]

I think you got to kind of think about it, which is really saying something for where he's been. Obviously the baggage. We've talked about plenty. But just for. In terms of Biggs coming into the league, he feels like the most promising hub option that could be available of all these young guys. In a lot of ways.

[C]

We mentioned. I mentioned on the last episode that I have some guys who are in the like projection volatility range where I. I think that Queen has earned the right to gain consideration. Have consideration as. As a volatility that spans all the way up to All Star, in my opinion, which I think, and I know we're being very heavily semantic driven on this show, but I think he absolutely has a chance to flirt with All Star, which I think would make him a blue chipper. He's. He's been sensational.

[A]

But can we talk about the Pelicans? Other. Maybe Blue Trip, Blue Chip? Certainly. Highly touted prospect Jeremiah Fierce, who, despite what Kyle Mann might have told you, is quite good.

[B]

Oh, are you anti Fears?

[C]

No, I, I was worried about him in a significant way. I, I mean in. I think I probably dinged him a little hard on the shooting and a little hard on the defense. In terms of his size. I think he's held up and equated himself pretty well to this point. The on ball stuff is just electric. I mean his connectivity, like he just dribbles so effortlessly and gets the spots on the floor wherever he wants to. And the finishing, the finishing is. Is really crafty and really creative in a way that has been impressive. Just really, really impressive.

[B]

He's also one of these guys who's super young. Right. He just turned 19 and we talk all about Flag being ahead of his class and reclassifying and being what is.

[C]

A reclass too, if I'm not.

[B]

Oh really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think he's a December birthday as well. Flag does. And so it seems like he, at the very least he's shown, I think, glimmers of being a star and having the electricity that you can't teach.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That I'm encouraged by because that's all I want to see for some of these guys that have a. Their starting point is from a much younger, much raw position.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[A]

There's lots that they can learn about how to run a team, about how to like manage time, score, execution, all that stuff. What I want to see from someone like Fears is what he's showing us, which Is like he had this play against the Bulls the other night that was hard. Dribble to his right, full spin, move back to his left and then kind of like slowed all the way down on the step through so that the shot blocker just kind of goes right by him. It's like the ability to manipulate space and time. That's what I want to see from a guy like him. And he's, he's got it like he's got that he can clearly blow by people and finish well. He's also got a nice little kind of one legged step back that's working pretty well for him right now. And if you can kind of get defenders yo yoing in both directions because they don't know how to guard you, just immensely valuable.

[C]

It's, it's the, it's the ant man in the inside iron man suit kind of thing that you have to have presence of mind that you have to have about yourself if you're going to survive in the NBA. If you're that small and you nailed it. Whereas if you're one of these guards who is A to B. You know, my life as a basketball player as a point guard at this point has been a incendiary A to B. You get into the NBA and you realize like the bigs are big enough to beat you to point B. You got to have some kind of ability to slow and go into bullet time and be angular and be strong with your dribble and things like that. And I think he's shown that.

[B]

How do you guys feel about the fit with Queen though? Do you think these guys ultimately complement each other? Because this seems like the foundation of whatever is next. In part because they won't have a lottery pick in this year's draft, unfortunately.

[A]

Well, I mean at. At the risk of falling into the easiest possible template, what you want to see some fears is like how does he find his Jamal Murray right? And, and that's where I think the change of pace and the kind of ducking and weaving stuff actually kind of could translate pretty well potentially. And all you really need is just their ability to work in handoff together. And I think you can trust Queen to find other shooters to space out into other plays. There's going to be a lot of ways you can expand the offense just through his vision, but fears can be explosive off the catch, moving really quickly. And I think this is one of the things with him is like I've been impressed with like some of the cuts he's making. I've been Impressed with, like, some of the moves he's making off the ball. I think there's enough there for them to be a really good pairing for a long time.

[B]

I also think it's important that these guys are fun, which obviously is not what we're rating here. But for New Orleans, which is trying desperately for over a decade now, trying to find a foothold in of a market, I just think they need something that will attract the Everyman to get to the arena. Because right now there's no way to see these promising young rookies or Trey Murphy, all these guys that we like talking about. But the one time it seems like they captured the zeitgeist of the city was when it was Brandon Ingram and the spunky Herb Jones era, where they.

[A]

Just had, like, Alvarado. Yeah.

[B]

They had an energy that appealed to people. And I think you could build something off of Fears and Queen that appeals to just like the common man. Which. Would you want to go watch that other than like, go down the street and kind of get drunk off your ass?

[A]

I mean, isn't this the podcast for the common man? We're making the appeal right now.

[B]

Well, it's a different, different common man in New Orleans because right now they're not listening to the podcast.

[A]

That's unfortunate.

[C]

You know that for a fact? You check in the demos?

[B]

I do check the demos pretty vigorously, but I don't.

[C]

You.

[B]

I don't know about New Orleans.

[A]

You know who else is not listening to the podcast? Jordan Hawkins. So I don't know if he exists anymore. Is he. Is he a person in the world? What happened to Jordan Hawkins?

[B]

It would be funny if, like, nobody could find Jordan Hawkins, but we find him listening to the group ch.

[A]

I would love it if that were the case. It's just like, I keep. I keep wanting to hold on to the idea that he could be a thing, but that is so far gone at this point.

[C]

It's just. Is this kind of like the, like, Coco, except like. Or the afterlife thing where it's like if no one remembers Jordan Hawkins, he's just slowly disappearing off the map?

[A]

That's exactly the case, yes. I hate to say it, but it's just where he finds himself and where we find ourselves.

[B]

Two years of subpar shooting and he's a shooter who is 100 pounds soaking wet. It's not going to work if he can't shoot.

[A]

That'll do it.

[C]

It's the baseline, non negotiable of his existence. It was. It was the sort of trading thing we we thought that the, the shooting was going to be the baseline and then you know, at summer league they start talking about getting him in ball screens and like experimenting, things like that. And it's just like shooting's not there. He's not getting to the basket. We know that he's very much a paper mache driver. He, if he has, he's kind of a, if he has an open lane to run, he can get up. He's pretty athletic but you know, he just, he can't like create, set the table for himself to go do those things.

[B]

And there are a lot of offense first guys on this team like and if you thinking down the road, Fears and Hawkins playing those together, like good luck. But I would take a second draft like risk on him or like if I can get him on a minimum just to see what else he has left, like see if he could shoot. He's that type of guy. Especially if you see what happens with Dyson Daniels getting a chance outside of the New Orleans system. I think you would, you'd give him a shot at the very least.

[A]

Oh, I mean he'll light it up in Sioux Falls at some point and it just like everything will kind of fall into place barely. And then he'll make a roster again and then we'll see.

[C]

Well, we were just talking about Isaiah Joe. I mean Isaiah Joe is off Mike. We were talking about Isaiah Joe.

[A]

Well, on Mike also perpetually.

[C]

And he's. Well, he's a little bigger if I'm not mistaken, but I think he could be a candidate for that kind of thing, get into the right system.

[B]

It speaks to the Queen hype train though that they're at 15 because it's really Fears and Queen like we talk about. Even BC he's fine. Hawkins, as we just described, Peavey's getting minutes. Like all these guys are just fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Outside of that.

[A]

And I think Queen deserves the consideration as far as our all blue chip team. But he also has some huge questions. You know this is all very early and we're all incredibly excited about it, but what is he going to be defensively? How much can carry he carry offensively for an actually good team? They're just guys who are more proven than him. And so it's going to be hard to put Derek Queen on the team at the expense of actually good all star or fringe all star level players right now.

[B]

So no blue chippers on this next team, the Utah jazz at French 14. But a lot of guys like the list you're seeing in front of you right now is a metric shit ton of guys. Eight of these are recent first round draft picks, nine of them in the top 32. The only one outside of the first round is Kyle. Philip Kowski could have easily gone in the first round of that draft. It's crazy. If you're a Jazz fan, you're probably looking. This is what we tanked for this collection. And right now it's like. It's okay. It's fine. Yeah.

[C]

Who's the highest pick in this group, though? I mean, it's Ace. Right? I'm trying to think of. Other than that, it's been a whole lot of just bad lottery luck. So I think that's probably why they've ended up with this group.

[B]

Great point. Cody Williams at 10 would be next. Then it's 16 for George and Clayton Jr. At 18. Yeah, it's a lot in the 20s. You're right.

[A]

Cody Williams is the one that hurts, though.

[B]

Yes. I just think he's not good.

[A]

He's shown no reason to think that he is an NBA player yet. And maybe that'll change someday. And I would love to see it, but that's really tough for the 10th pick to get. Someone who's just shown you nothing to this point. Yeah.

[B]

What do you think about him coming out of the draft?

[C]

Baby deer? I mean, it kind of played out the exact way I thought it would. I mean, it's kind of a case of like, brother bias. Right. I mean, it's just. I think people saw the leap that Jalen made and they looked at him and just said, that'll probably happen. Right. And it just kind of happened. Hasn't happened. If you look at the guys that were taken after him, I think there were some, like, decent swing players who. I don't. I don't even think there were huge swings that are going to probably have higher floors than him. I mean, Tobage hasn't played yet, but Carrington, Khalil Ware, Jerry McCain Da Silva, who's become a pretty steady but consistent guy. Keyshawn George, I mean, you just go on and on, and I think it was kind of an odd swing. I mean, I. But I'm. I'm just totally guessing. We could probably find out more details on why they did that, but it just hasn't come to fruition. And BPM negative 7.8 up to his point. So if you. If your head's that far below water. I did a study on this one time among rookies and guys like years one through three. If you're still that far below water in year three. Guys typically don't get above water.

[B]

Tough because other than him, they have some solid guys here. Definitely Kessler obviously out this year, but solid.

[A]

That sucks though.

[B]

Yes. Conte George though, doesn't suck because he looks like a real player, a guy.

[A]

Even I know and he really looked like based on last season he might turn into a cautionary tale that he might, he might become one of these Jordan Hawkins type like scorers who just can't score efficiently anymore. The bottom falls out on their game and then what are they? And then you're watching him and like he's really diversified his game off the ball, I think. And some of it's like the way that the Jazz run their offense and how much they enable these guys to cut and move. Yes, Keontae is the pull up game has been there. Yes. The pick and roll game has been there, but he's also been really good going back door. He's playing off of all of these bigs in like really exciting ways. I love to see him adding all those elements so that he's everything just like live and die with. Are you making your pull up jumpers tonight?

[B]

Yeah. I do worry about when he scales into a more efficient role where that becomes paramount for his game, like where does he fit in? That's the, the big concern about these kind of microwave scores where we've seen now like teams are just moving off them and not valuing them at all. Does he ultimately fall into a six man role? We want more of a caretaker setup guy at the point guard role?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

But at the very least they have a good problem to have because he fits somewhere in this team, I would hope. The guy who's really intriguing to me is Ace Bailey, who still talk about baby deer. Like I don't even think he knows what he is at this point and probably thinks of himself as a different player than he's going to end up being. But I just see him out there, I'm just like, good lord, this giant athlete who could probably be a lights out shooter. Like if they could just harness that then they'd be on to something. And then we're talking about Bailey and Lowry and potential draft pick coming this year, then we're onto something.

[C]

Yeah, I, I think he's somebody that can't really paddle for himself. He kind of has to be towed around to the spots. Like, you know, you have to kind of put him in position to succeed because his handle in traffic has been pretty rough. At times you don't see him, but if he's active on the offensive glass, those are the little areas where he can add value. It's just him running and one step jump jumping. I've always said it's kind of his strength because he's really big and he's really explosive off of one step. But the movement shooting has been really solid. I mean, 45.8% on movement threes, not a crazy sample, but 2.1 on spot up. So just him hitting shots. He, he definitely has probably more. He really, really loves those. Like, you know, I caught it, you know, one of these into a shot kind of things from.

[B]

Yeah, you don't have a name for.

[C]

That one you'd like to. Yeah, he's just sort of a mid range maven kind of a guy. Like he's, he's somebody that. He's lived off of those. I would like to see more of those be threes. But yeah, it's. If he, if he's a really active cutter, if he's active on the glass, it's just, you got to have somebody to set the table for.

[A]

I think Will Hardy's done a really good job of channeling, as you're saying, all those like bucket getting instincts into the movement, shooting the spot up. And I think a lot of his role right now is outlined that way. You start with that stuff, you give him this structure of this is where your easy points can come from. And once you get that down, then maybe you can expand into the bucket getting stuff at some point. You know, when you're 23, we can have a different conversation about what you can create. But right now he does all that and in addition to it, he just has these moments, whether it's in transition or even just like some, some really nice plays defensively where he will flash all that size and athleticism. He'll just, he will just pop and uncork and block the shit out of somebody. You don't expect him to get. The steadiness isn't there, the consistency isn't there. You can see the flashes of a really interesting two way player.

[B]

So you'll see the difference in perspective here with these rankings where the Jazz had a ton of guys, but this next team on our list, number 13, the Philadelphia 76ers, have one guy and then another maybe guy, right? Because Vijay Edgecombe, definitely a maybe. In terms of blue chip prospects, I think I didn't have him as a blue, but right on the fucking cusp because, man, have you seen him Lately with Maxi not on the floor. Yeah, he just assimilates into that role so seamlessly. And this guy is still like what, 19, 20 years old. Like I don't even think he realizes who he is in this league, but he just has something which is irrepressible in the midst of Embiid going off, in the midst of Paul George getting his. Like he had the same amount of shot attempts as George and embiId in that second game. Game. And he was just as good and efficient as he was like playing off of Maxi. It was kind of remarkable.

[A]

I'm having to like pump the brakes for myself with VJ Edge. Com.

[C]

Are you in the. Are you in the arena with the Fog? You're trying to like, you don't know where the wall is.

[A]

I don't know where the wall is anymore. And it is this, which is like depending on who's in the lineup, the circumstances, it's so easy for him to turn it up. Like he just has his finger on that dial all the time in a way that honestly reminds me of Maxi a couple years ago, where you just get a little daylight and all of a sudden he has 25. Like it just, it looks so simple for him. Everything is so straightforward and for the level of athlete he is, it doesn't even really feel like a strain to get there.

[B]

Leads all rookies in plus minus, which. Plus minus, whatever, but. And he plays with a lot of veterans. But I think that says something about like what a high floor he is. He just seems like he makes an impact no matter what role he's in.

[C]

I think if we're going to talk about mb, the question of him being a blue chip player or not is the question of do we think that he can get to the. Do what Maxi has done? Do we think that we can get to the point where he's going to be able to facilitate if he's going to be able to see the floor. I always, I've. I've always reiterated this about what I saw him as. I saw him as a high quality, supportive guy who probably. You don't want him carrying the heaviest load as a decision maker. But he's, he's just smart. He always, he always redirects the ball. He's, he's a good steward of good offense, you know, and, and doesn't have a lot of self sabotaging sort of habits as well.

[A]

But I mean that's an exceptional like test case. Right? Like, what if the caretaker of your offense is one of the most athletic players in the league.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think he has some of those qualities to him in addition to just having this pop of scoring.

[B]

So beyond him, it's really Jared McCain and a bunch of other guys.

[A]

What's going on with Jared McCain?

[B]

I mean, he's been injured perpetually at this point.

[A]

He's been injured. I mean, let's just. Let's just say it very plainly.

[B]

Tiktoks.

[A]

Well, an awful defender is what I was going to say. I have no problem with the social media presence. Do whatever you want to do. I mean, I'm not following him.

[B]

Go.

[A]

Go with God. Jared McCain. Have fun out there.

[C]

You have a problem with him.

[A]

Justin has a problem with everyone.

[B]

Too many TikTok media is doing too much.

[C]

Is that kind of yours?

[A]

Also, if any outside interest for Justin.

[B]

Maybe his Tiktoks also aren't inventive. He's just, like, doing, like, pretty simple. Like, if he was, like, doing ballet moves, I'd be like, hell, yeah, I'm going to follow that. But it's just like the latest craze and he's just doing. There's not a lot of depth there to his TikTok dances.

[A]

I think for you to have this take, you need to do some of the dances that he's done.

[C]

I would do that.

[A]

Okay, well, let's. Let's.

[B]

You doubt me.

[A]

Let's. Let's get Keith on the phone. Let's get Jomi on the phone. Let's. Let's put you on the ring or social media and see what you got.

[B]

I've told you guys I flirted with the Deni avdia TikTok, which I still wanted to do.

[A]

I don't like any of this. I don't agree with your take. My only point is, like, he's so bad defensively that when the shot goes, it looks awful. And you can see Nick Nurse just like, wrestling with this on an ongoing basis. But there's also the thing with him where they have so many good guards now that the opportunity is naturally diminished. He's clearly out of rhythm because of the injuries and other things, and that's just created this feedback loop where he can't get on the floor long enough to really get himself into the right mode. And that just makes him worse and worse and worse and worse. And he just has not gotten his feet under him at any point yet.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, considering, like, where they got him, I just think the opportunity to get Edgecomb through a curveball in the way that we were going to feel about Him. You know, I just think the Sixers having the blip sort of year, the unexpectedly bad year that put them in the position to get this pick, I think has just kind of thrown him into flux, that I don't think we're going to be able to find our way out of the flux until we can keep him on the floor. And to see him play, it's also.

[B]

Tough because what he does is just spark plug scoring. You'd assume he'd ultimately end up as a bench scorer as his role. I would be surprised if he had even at the highest moments last year would have been just like a go to score on a starting lineup. And they don't really need that electricity because as we were saying, Vijay has it and Maxi has it in spades. And so it's tough to really Grimes, another guy who does the same thing. And so like, in a weird way, the depth chart kind of consumed him very quickly. Like, I would love to see him in a role on a different team that needs it. Like maybe Charlotte or something, you know, who just needs juice off the bench. One of those type of teams.

[A]

I think that quickfire score is still in him, but you're right that they just need it a little bit less right now. And certainly just like the minutes going to Quentin Grimes or whoever are ultimately probably a little better served.

[B]

Other than that, I mean, Jabari Walker's a dog.

[A]

I really like Dominic Barlow, okay. I think he's just like one of the best guys on a two way contract in the entire league right now.

[B]

He's.

[A]

He's the classic, like, forward who can't. I don't think he's ever going to get to the point where he's a starter, but he can handle and he can pass and he knows how to move. It's just like one of these guys you plug in and you never feel bad about his minutes. He's constantly connecting and moving and extending actions. I, I would love to have him in my front court if I were running a team.

[B]

Power Rank. These Sixers, randos, Justin Edwards, Dominic Barlow, Adem Bona, and let's say Jabari Walker.

[A]

I, I love all these guys.

[B]

That's the thing.

[A]

I really love all these guys.

[B]

Choose one of your sons.

[A]

Right now, Barlow is my favorite.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Of. Of this group.

[B]

But it could change any moment.

[A]

It could change at any moment.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think some of that is like, I am more. I have a clearer sense of how Barlow makes good players better and makes other lineups make more sense for a guy On a two way. That's pretty remarkable.

[C]

Yeah, he was kind of like a butt of a joke earlier in the season where you're like, oh, my God, this is where we are. Dominic Barlow. I feel. I feel like I heard that constantly from people and it's gotten to the point where it's just kind of like, oh, yeah, there's Barlow's out there. So that's a progression.

[B]

Yeah. So similar category at number 12, Cleveland Cavaliers, except they've got a blue chipper. Our first blue chipper.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

Ring the bell. Do whatever we're doing for the blue chippers.

[A]

Lock it in.

[B]

Lock it in. Yeah, we're locking in the blue chip. Ring the fucking bell. Because Evan Mobley somehow, coming off a defensive player of the year season, coming off a big old leap year, is 24 years old.

[A]

All NBA, right?

[B]

Yeah. It's unbelievable. Sometimes when you see these guys, like, we'll get to Cade Cunningham later on. I'm like, this guy is still under 25 fucking years old. Youth, man. They're just doing miracles. But.

[A]

But this is where the conversation. I don't even. Wait, hold on. What?

[B]

We're doing miracles.

[A]

What are the youth doing that's miraculous? Just this stuff.

[B]

Just being Kate Cunningham.

[A]

So the youth on TikTok bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The youth being Kate Cunningham.

[B]

Good. Yeah. Nothing to explore there. No, it's clear cut.

[A]

Absolutely. So the conversation almost ends there, though. Like, we can talk about Jaylon Tyson and we should, but yeah, this is really. Evan Mobley Is the youth movement in Cleveland, for all intents and purposes, not necessarily a great thing for where the Cavs are right now.

[B]

Here's my question to you. Okay, so Mobley has the big leap last year. He's been okay this year, at least relative to expectations. Do you think we'll ever be content with Mobley's progression or do we think so highly of what he could be that he'll never actually make that?

[C]

Trying to think of a player who is really similar that kind of kept us in that limbo for the whole career. I'm trying to think. I mean, I mean, Chris Weber was accused of that for a while, but he had some moments with Sacramento later on.

[A]

I feel like we do this with a lot of bigs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and sometimes deserved. Like, Cat has been in that space for a long time and it's been somewhat deserved.

[B]

Scotty Barnes's offense, he's kind of really found a footing this year and we'll get to him a little bit later. But like, for a while, it Was like if he wasn't just a playmaker, plus like the best defensive player in the world. Like, we were disappointed.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, you could see all these things coming when you watched him as a young player even before he came into the draft, it was just like the shot was really slow. It was going to have to. He was going to have to really go a long way to get to that, be that consistent. And you wanted to see him sort of exert his will around the pain a little bit more and just be meaner. And it's just kind of like it's been more present on the defensive side of the ball than it's been on the offensive side of the ball. But. But this team is interest. Interesting this in the. In the exercise of the core rankings. It's interesting to look at a Utah team who has a bunch of quarters is the way I put it the other day. And it's like Cleveland has $1 and that's just kind of like, that's okay, cool. We're gonna rank you ahead. That's because that's what we're looking for.

[A]

I think the question is, is it even a dollar or is a player like Evan Mobley more like a 20? You know, it's like he's so much more valuable.

[C]

You just broke my system, so that doesn't work.

[A]

I'm just saying. And Evan Mobley is so much more valuable than a Chianti Jordan. Like, in terms of what they represent to a team, the kind of load bearing aspects of their game. Of course, I agree that even though he's having a comparable season to what he did last year, there is a disappointment in that. And I think part of the reason it feels off is he's the lone big in a lot of these lineups. And yes, we're wanting him to be a little nastier. We're wanting him to get to the basket and finish with more authority. And somehow he's just like scoring around the basket even less and shooting around the basket even less in what should be theoretically more space. And so, like, I just keep waiting for that because to your point, Kyle, about the speed of his jumper, which has gotten a little more smooth during his time in the league, it's still not something that you want to build your entire game around. Like Evan Mobley, shooting long twos is fine in spots, but it's not the crux of his game, or at least it shouldn't be.

[C]

It's always been more of a release valve than something that you go to. And I think that people have just been longing for him to find something that we're going to. It's not. And, and even his release valve stuff like his shot, you're just like, I don't love it. It's just kind of. And I don't know that we're ever going to totally get there.

[B]

But you do not find encouragement that he's being a little bit more varied in the shots that he's taking. At the very least he's stepping out and shooting different shots.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

So the problem, I wonder, to answer the question we kind of posed here is like I wonder if it is dispositional. The fact that he isn't going out and getting it and taking it from Donovan Mitchell, who will take as much as he's allowed to. I do wonder. Part of that is just like innately who he is, just his character and it works against him that he has all of these ready made veterans who are all stars, literally three of them on his roster at various times who are going to eat first and he's not going to be the guy who's going to step outside of that. If anything again, that's the problem with putting a rookie and kind of catapulting them into a competitive position so soon. You don't build up the reps of like taking that and knowing what is yours versus like what you could just take from someone else. Because that guy doesn't matter as much as me. And so maybe it comes, maybe it's a growth thing, maybe it's a maturity thing. But the fact he doesn't have that I feel like is to his detriment because other guys are getting that freely elsewhere.

[A]

It's true. But the fact that he is still in this group as being eligible as a young player I think speaks to the way we talk about him. Is so much more tethered to what he has accomplished, which is exceptional and not actually where he is in terms of age, which is a 24 year old who's still figuring out all this stuff.

[B]

So he's a blue shipper, no doubt. Hard and fast. We need to talk about anybody else. I mean Tyson's been good this year.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I, I wasn't sure that was going to be the case even as recently as last season. So just to see him like find his driving game in particular and he's just like such a. He plays with a lot of abandon on the drive, on the move in a way that I really appreciate. I, I think every team needs a guy like him and the Fact that Cleveland was able to find him has been one of the boons of their season.

[C]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Number 11, the Washington Wizards, who are team volume. I actually considered Alexar as a maybe now deep maybe. Like, I don't think he was like, a legitimate candidate to vault into the blue chipper. It's only 15 spots, ladies and gents, but a guy who I feel strongly about is going to have a good future in this league. And so I had to stop and think about it for a while. Sure. Still only 20 years old, which feels great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it seems like he's on the path toward carving out a successful version of himself, which is being more of a big man and then adding this stuff on top of that. So he's good on top of that, though. It's a real grab bag, man. There's just a lot of guys and to the point where they're already in the process of calling and like, and kind of pushing some aside, like, A.J. johnson doesn't play. Ken Whitmore not playing anymore.

[A]

Tim Whitmore got, basically got benched for, like, conduct on becoming of a Washington wizard, which is really something.

[C]

Yeah. I don't even know what that means.

[A]

Well, not literally, but that was effect, like, effectively. The message was like, you're not up to our competitive standards. You're too selfish.

[C]

I have never gotten more texts about one specific thing from one specific player than, oh, my God, Cam Whitmore does not pass the ball. Like, it was incredible.

[B]

Remarkable.

[C]

I wanted to just kind of throw this into flex a little bit, though. If we're going to talk about, like, who's a dude and who's not. If I put a gun to your head.

[A]

Please don't, Kyle. Please don't.

[C]

If I put. If I put a water gun to your head. If I put a bonk. If I put a Gordon bonk mallet over your head.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And I said, for sure. Ten years from now, we're looking at who's a better player five years from now. Alex Saar or Khalil Ware? Are you absolutely sure you know what the answer would be?

[A]

No.

[B]

No. But I think SAR has the higher floor where is more volatile, I guess.

[C]

I don't know, though, because we were talking about the. The steadiness of. Of where shooting. And I'm like, Sar has always kind of marketed himself as somebody who aspires to that. And I just. Those two guys are just so similar to me in terms of their paths. Like, you saw somebody really young in the international game that people really got Drunk. Considering his. His potential and things like that. Oh yeah. Where had a sort of odd ambling path to where he is now. I just think those two guys, if one. If we definitively said one was a dude and one wasn't, you know, I just think that would be interesting because I actually kind of think they're close.

[A]

I'm not ready to be definitive about it, but if we want to get really in the weeds. Part of the reason I feel so bullish about Saar from the season, yeah, the scoring, especially closer to the basket has been so much better. He looks like a much different finisher. He also can like facilitate and wheel and deal a little bit in a way that I just have not really seen as much from Columbia.

[C]

Better pass or for sure.

[A]

And so it's like as a big if you are a pretty high level rim protector, which SAR already was and has continued to be. Plus you can score inside, plus you can facilitate, plus maybe you can shoot. Now we're really cooking with gas.

[B]

And how much was Sar's struggles shooting last season a result of them really ratcheting up the volume on him? From the start he had the green ass light where he could take a bunch of threes where he probably wasn't ready to do so like now he's a respectable shooter. It's not like a plus shot, but I've always thought like the form looked good. It could be because he's like more boxy as a human than someone else. So everything looks very rigid. But the shot always looked fine. Like it didn't. Doesn't seem uncomfortable for him to be stepping out there. It's just probably more uncomfortable for him to be doing only that.

[C]

Sure can't imagine why a bad team like the Wizards would want a shaky shooter like SAR shooting at volume on threes. Can't imagine why they would have continued to do that.

[B]

Yeah, it would take us multiple podcasts to figure that one out. Um, and what among these other guys. Let's take Keyshawn George out of it because he's on another level.

[A]

Although thank you for acknowledging it.

[B]

The assist numbers lately. He almost had a triple double, but all like it was like 9, 8 and 9. Yeah, pretty good. I love those sorts of games.

[C]

But he's got to be consistent, am I right? None of this wishy washy stuff. I just really enjoyed that sort of that. I. I had to go after his consistency after like two or three games. Yeah, it had to be done.

[B]

But he's fallen into that like my favorite category, which is like power forwards, you could pass it.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

He can shoot a little bit better than. Than the goodies and the Ben Simmons.

[A]

Does he handle Sean power forward well? I mean, he's kind of a combo forward. I think the question with Washington is like, who are the power?

[C]

I always saw him as like playmaking three.

[A]

I think he probably profiles more as three, but he'll guard some fours. Like, ultimately, I think he's well positioned to do a little of both.

[B]

So outside of him, who do we feel the best about? So Trey Johnson's on this list.

[A]

Yeah. See, I want to say ball.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But that's the wildest thing in this conversation.

[A]

Is it?

[C]

No, I just. No, not what you said. It's just the. The fact that we're talking about he's had a really precipitive, precipitous dive. Yeah. We've been in this pot a while. I can't see the word precipitous. Yeah, just the. The fall off in expectations for him, I think has been kind of crazy.

[A]

When he can't stay healthy. The shot has just has not come around really at all. And if he's never going to get to the point where he can even take threes with any consistent volume just changes the outlook of most of his career. So I hope he can find his way into some version of that. Yeah.

[B]

What skills has he really kind of developed to the point where they're. You're really super encouraged that those could be elite skills.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Super athlete.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Obviously the injuries are concerned if he can't get up and down, but like go to defender at best who runs the floor hard. Yeah, that's a. That's a deep rotation guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not even a starter.

[A]

He's more of an open floor game player right now than he is someone you really know what to do with when the game slows down. And that's a problem. How do we feel about Bub?

[B]

Are we all out because he's had playing better lately.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

The. Another of these classic shooting better from three than two.

[A]

The twos were really bad for a while.

[B]

I just don't know how we've gone so far with the three there. This is happening multiple, like high level processes.

[A]

I mean, I think they're trained that way often and these guys practice so much three point shooting Now. I didn't think that was ever going to be a problem with Bub because he does feel like such an instinctive scorer. But then he had moments earlier this season where he shoot like wide Right off the backboard. Like just a complete, like some terrible, terrible misses that seems to be cleaned up. He just looked so at sea with so many of his possessions earlier in the season. It feels like he's finally settling down, and I'm really excited to see it.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, if the shooting pressure, I think, is pretty, like, I think he provides that because he's been pretty dynamic in the way that he shoots you. And he's shooting it off the dribble pretty well. He's shooting in transition pretty well, shooting it off the catch pretty well. That baseline, I think, will be enough to kind of let it keep him on the floor, to kind of survive and try to figure out if the other stuff can stabilize. But, yeah, it's interesting because I feel like Keyshawn's sort of, like, coming on, and I feel like adding Trey Johnson, the Cam Whitmore stuff that they threw in there. It's been a little in flux in terms of the. The lineups for him, and I think that probably has played a role, too.

[B]

How worried are you guys about the Wizards right now? Now they haven't had the big swing at the top of the draft that they were hoping for. They ended up with Trey Johnson, who.

[C]

Was like, fifth or so was he.

[A]

Fifth, but I think he was a little later than that.

[B]

Sixth, maybe. Are we seriously googling?

[A]

Let's do it quick. Let's do a quick. He was sixth. Indeed. Great.

[C]

Fifth on our big board.

[B]

Exactly. So they haven't had the big swings at the top of the draft, which they basically like, positioned their entire seasons around over the past few years. Trey Johnson was picked six. They didn't end up in the top three or top four. They didn't get a Vijay, they didn't get a Con. And so here they are to a certain extent. On the other hand, I keep looking back to the Denning trade, and I know put the swear jar thing up right now, but that's the classic.

[A]

You're making some kid benefiting from a charity very happy from all the money you're. You're putting it with.

[B]

Denny, I give back to the Portland community. You know, it's one of my favorite things to do. But that's the case where you took something that was good at the time and. And cashed it in for the potential of something good down the road.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it clearly hasn't worked because the trade package was Brogdon, the pick that ultimately became bub, and then a farther away pick obviously worked pretty well for Portland, but it's just kind of like, can we be okay with guys who are fine now? Did the Wizards see this version of Denny? Clearly not, or they wouldn't have traded him. But there was more there. I think everyone liked his potential to do more.

[A]

And his shooting had already started to turn. The playmaking was there, like, he's already a pretty good defender. It was a weird trade at the time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But again, but weird for Portland.

[B]

More people were turning, like, their eyebrow up.

[A]

Were they?

[B]

Yeah, because they traded to two draft two first rounders for Denny, who was an established veteran, who didn't. Who wouldn't help them lose.

[A]

You're so Portland pilled. You have the local knowledge before you even lived there.

[B]

No, I'm just. I'm. I'm dialed in.

[A]

I mean, it's impressive.

[C]

I'm impressed.

[B]

That's all I'm saying.

[C]

Well, they clearly had a higher view of him than maybe consensus. I know Mike Schmitz was like, on record as like, being a huge, you know, who does their draft stuff now, who was a huge Denny fan. So, I mean, that. That stands to reason that that checks out.

[A]

I'm not super worried about the Wizards overall. Like, they're a bad team. Look how many young players they are playing to the point that they can't even play some of their other young players. There's other situations where, you know, Trey would be playing a ton of. And it's just, like, not really the case here. You could make the argument that there's a little bit of cannibalization of opportunity. I look at a player like Will Riley. I think he would be, like, a really interesting prospect for a lot of teams. And there's just, like, not enough for him to do with the ball with this particular group. So there's a cost to that stuff. But ultimately, I don't feel so certain about any of them that I would want to be the one to say I definitively am picking the bub Carrington lane and not this other one at this point. So play it out. See what you see from these guys. Ultimately, Saar and Keyshawn are showing real development. That's important. Everything else is. I mean, you're playing with house money, just trying to see who develops first.

[C]

There's a real, like, what's the. There's a real unsullied vibe going on with all the wings that they picked up, where it's like, the unsullied. They were like, if he drowns, good. If he survives, good. Like, I just think there's kind of like, Trey Johnson and they, they have a. When you mentioned Will Riley, I was like, yeah, he's always just kind of an afterthought in that sense. It's just they have so many of those guys. Whitmore and Riley and Johnson and Bubba. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. The holidays move fast and Amazon prime keeps you in control with fast and free delivery. We've all been there. Family plans are fluid. Somebody's not coming. Suddenly they are coming and you're excited about it. You want to get them a gift, so you hop on Amazon prime, line that up with their interests. And it's easy to do because Amazon has everything. Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and it just can't wait. Need that last minute gift or holiday essential? It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.comprime to shop now. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. The holidays move fast and Amazon prime keeps you in control with fast and free delivery. We've all been there. Family plans are fluid. Somebody's not coming. Suddenly they are coming and you're excited about it. You want to get them a gift, so you hop on Amazon prime, line that up with their interests. And it's easy to do because Amazon has everything. Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and it just can't wait. Need that last minute gift or holiday essential. It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.comprime to shop now.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Brooks reminds us that we're all powered by something from the me time energy of a run after a workday, the electric energy felt on a race day starting line, or the infectious energy of a group run with your friends. Brooks makes gear designed to unleash your energy, whether it's the feel good distraction free Ghost, the supercharged Hyperion Max, or the fan favorite adrenaline. Because at the end of the day, one step has the power to change everything. Let's run there. Head to brooksrunning.com to learn more. All right, number 10 on the list, the Toronto Raptors. Scotty Barnes. Put the stamp on it. Blue chipper, baby.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

Yeah. Any, any disagreement playing in like an.

[A]

All star, maybe all NBA level. And he has so much ahead of him. Why, like, why wouldn't that be a blue chipper?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Really seems to have found himself this year. Just this is probably the optimal version of a guy who could do a lot of different Things, but his best trait is probably just getting after it, getting the after. In Scotty Barnes case, defensively, he's like, he's probably going to be in the ballot for defensive player of the year if he keeps playing like this. But the offense is just what it is, you know, and like the passing really pops in the midst of all these guys. It's great to see.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, I, I think the, the balls to the wall thing that when he makes those focus that he's just not. He's not a nuance, like check kind of a chess player offensively because I just don't think that he has the consistent offensive efficiency to like justify that. But when you get him moving and you get him fly when he's flying around guard, multiple positions, swooping in for, for help, side blocks and things like that. He had a monster one the other night. I'm trying to remember which game it was, but he does it all the time. That's why, that's why it can get easy to forget which one it was. But, but he's. I've always seen him as sort of like a high level guy who could be like a perimeter defensive anchor, switch onto some fours, but then he's more of a connector, maybe not necessarily an offensive primary on offense, and that's okay.

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think what's exciting about the future of the Raptors really, you know, Scotty is number one with the bullet here. Colin Murray Boyle is also a huge part of this conversation as far as the young court. Not Chunkasaurus. That's not a thing.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I mean, he detonates a ton of defensive plays. And so the fact that you're having these two guys who are blowing up stuff constantly in addition to guards applying pressure, bigs behind you, kind of backlining it all, you can see the outline of what could be really good for a long time for Toronto.

[B]

So the ranking surprised me to a certain degree because I like the players on this list. Barnes obviously a blue chipper, and that's going to put them in a different category. As you've seen, all the blue chippers are starting to pile up here. Colin, Murray, Bowles, we talked about. We like him. We like Jamal. Shedding. Not totally sure I know what they have in Grady. Dick.

[A]

No Kobe.

[B]

Walter coming on a little bit this year.

[A]

Jacoby, Walter.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Walter. Walter and Agbaji, I feel like, are kind of similar propositions to me. And it's kind of, kind of what they are. Agbaji, a little bit older, obviously not on this list. But yeah, they're similar. There's not. There's not somebody on here. There are guys that we have questions about. Like, Mogbo is. Despite me getting a fish fist bump in a Mexican restaurant and feeling really good about that. About Mogbo.

[B]

You're gonna explain that like, so you're at a Mexican restaurant.

[C]

This person probably heard it. If they is listening to. No. Some dude came up to me with a baby on his. On his shoulder. And Megan and I and Julian were just sitting there eating dinner and he just leaned down, didn't say anything else, leaned down to me and just went, mogbo. And gave me a fist bump. And I looked around and Megan goes, what the hell was that? And I said, that was a sicko. That's what that.

[A]

That was the secret society that I am a part of. You know, clearly Jonathan Mobo oriented. But he, he is representative to me of this thing, which is like all of these guys. I like something about them. Yeah, I don't love everything about them all the time, and some of them are more consistent than others. But there's something to recommend about almost every young player the Raptors have.

[B]

Yes. And I think this is an important thing to talk about as we veer toward trade season. And I think a lot of teams are going to be thinking about some of these draft prospects. And I do wonder. The Raptors, we expect to be very much in the mix, at the very least of the rumor mill and like, could they go for AD, etc. If you're looking at this list of guys Barnes excluded, like, who are we targeting here? Is it boils? And then take your pick. Is it.

[A]

Murray Boyles is really good. I think he. He would be tough to pry from them at this point.

[C]

You.

[B]

You're save.

[C]

It's an way too early to get rid of boils for me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wait, so. Okay, well, what's. What's your reservation?

[B]

It's more about like, if you gotta. If you're gonna get something, you have to give something up.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

I think his promise and size are really exciting to me if I'm to run. I mean, Kyle, I'm curious of your perspective with him, particularly because he's such a funky offensive player. I don't even know what kind of progression I would want from Colin. Murray Boyles on offense. Like, do you have anything in particular you want to see him be able to do?

[C]

I mean, he adds passing pop. It's just kind of. He needs to probably figure out some kind of crafty game around the rim. If he's going to live around the rim. I mean, he's like a cutter. The shooting is probably pretty like it's. I don't know, he's just sort of like a big, beefier version of like a. Like a Herb Jones type. It's like if he can get to. No, I'm just saying if he can get you.

[A]

I'm like, Justin gave me a look.

[C]

Chunkier version. Sorry. Check. Check my language. That's right. He just. He adds so many things. It's like I'd like to play him next to a big skill 5. We need a jar for that. Like, let's get. How many skilled fives are there out there to unlock these types of guys? Because I don't know that you can. Can you have two in, three out with. With Murray Boyles as the second in guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He presents some. Some problems, but he's smart enough, man. I think he's going to figure out.

[A]

Super clever, like really, really sharp already.

[B]

Yeah. We've talked a lot about with the Raptors and their potential trade packages. It's like, oh, maybe it's rj. Maybe it's quickly. I'm like, just give me contracts and then some of these young guys, if any, because they're starting to stack up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think you do need to hit it right where margaritas I think would be top of the list. But like, you know, I find myself really liking Jamal Shed. Like, that's just a guy who's going to play in a rotation if feels like for a years.

[A]

That's a dog's dog right there. Jamal Shed.

[B]

And I like a dog.

[A]

I think the problem with the just give me young guys and contracts formula is for the Raptors, most of the contracts are attached to RJ Barrett and Emmanuel Quickley. I think Jakob Hurdle is maybe the one part of that feels a little more expendable. As far as the general structure of the team, we should also say RJ and Emmanuel Quickley both aged out a little too far to be part of this conversation. And if they were just a little bit younger, maybe the Raptors are even higher on this list.

[B]

A team at 9Now who has a ton of players on this list and their most intriguing players are all on this list practically. That's the Charlotte Horn. It's a team I was way higher on than you guys. You guys were all relatively high. You had them at 11, Kyle had them at nine. I had them at six. Six. And Perfect is just like, God damn Khan canippe.

[A]

Yeah, he's got like.

[B]

It's hard to like consider myself part of the hype train because that was off the rails before the season even started. The preseason, the, the draft stuff, like, everyone just seemed to love how advanced he was, the feel and everything like that. But we talked about him to start with, like, oh, maybe he's the right guy to put around Miller in ball. Then we're like, oh, maybe he's just the higher floor. Maybe he's just the best goddamn player of who's available at the moment because he just, he's just like the best player on the floor. When, when they were playing the Cavs the other night. It's just like I didn't expect this to come at all, let alone this soon. It's wild.

[A]

Well, let me ask you about this because this is kind of a something for everybody collection of would be stars, right? You have Lamelo for the more whimsical among us. You have Brandon Miller, I would say is like a real Hooper's Hooper prototype. And then you have Khan, who is kind of like a connective superstar in a lot of ways.

[C]

Dare I say connective.

[A]

No, you may not. I'm saying it something about we can edit that out. If you had to bet which of those three guys has the best career, where would you lean at this point?

[C]

I think sometimes you have to go high outcome, low outcome and the high outcome might, might ascend higher. And the hypotheticals for like a Lamello or a Brandon Miller who are exciting with their size and their live dribble kind of shot making and passing and then sometimes you just have somebody that maybe is just going to thread the needle. I think his bringing up the word volatility. I don't see Khan as volatile at all in any way, shape or form. I just think that the basic things and the he doesn't need to be disabused about what he does. He knows what he does. He does it consistently. And I think he's going to have the pres of mine and the skill set that kind of can kind of expand out from there. And I mentioned Gordon Hayward. I, I really sincerely think, I think like he has that sort of slow mo way that he can get to his spots and score and I, I, I'm excited about what he's going to be able to build.

[A]

I like the idea of the Hornets like trying to wishing well their way to signing Gordon Hayward all those years ago and now they finally got connect a nipple. Like it's just, it finally Cashed in for them.

[B]

Well, as much as this is just like a love fest for Con, it is a backdoor. What the hell is up with Brandon Miller conversation?

[A]

See, I don't know that it is.

[B]

Well, the injuries have. Have mounted. He's fallen away from the spotlight where I think people were just like, Paul George track. I see it. He looked good. Ratchet the. Out of the volume on the threes, and we were just like, all right, kind of in between year, we'll see what's going on. And now he's just like floating in the ether. Like, he's played.

[C]

He's played 37 games in the past, like, year and a half. So it's, it's rough.

[B]

But do we, like. Has the star diminished so much that we don't consider him on the same track that he was before? Because it feels that way.

[A]

I'm super into it. I gotta be honest with you. I, I like, like, look, the health considerations are what they are. If you could put them to the side, I would feel great about a lot of the parameters of his game. Granted, he's come back and look rusty. Like, all that stuff is still true, but he has all of the elements that I want to see. And it's just like, to me, it's more of a matter of time and opportunity and in this case, health. So it's. It's tough because that variable does loom so large. But I still love the contours of what he is and can be.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, initially, this really has. You talked about this shifting more towards a. Like, Khan's not a supporting guy. I mean, the Khan and Miller thing, I think is pretty interesting because I think you've got a sort of a two prong, movable, mobile, gravity kind of thing. I do. I don't. I don't really, but he's had some, some dips in efficiency from 3. But I've seen him shoot enough basketballs. I, I just feel confident about that. And he's a good passer. I think he and Khan kind of line up together as, as having similar traits. But yeah, he's. I, I still believe so.

[B]

I have Miller as a. Maybe I didn't have him as a blue chip.

[C]

As a blue chipper, yeah. He doesn't quite get to blue chip status for me, but that's all right.

[A]

Do any of these guys get to blue chip status?

[B]

I had him on maybes, all three of them.

[A]

I think they might all be maybes.

[B]

It's unfortunate because I really thought about Khan.

[A]

I can Hear the argument for Khan. But just to put like the threshold in context, I mean, we're going to be talking about can con be better than context? Jesus Christ.

[B]

One too many.

[A]

I quit. It's like, can con be better than Cade Cunningham is like the conversation we're having. And so the top 15 prospects in the entire league is over remarkably high bar. And that he is in the conversation for it is a compliment. A compliment.

[C]

Let me almost did another one. I'm not going to do it.

[B]

Let me ask you this though. If we were to redraft like VJ or con, how are we feeling about that right now? We just sang the praises of Vijay Edgecomb.

[A]

Don't make me choose.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I'd gone ahead of EJ in the draft and I still have him ahead.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

I just think it's. It's kind of one of those. I. I think the high outcomes of EJ could soar higher. To see his athleticism, obviously. I just think. Think Khan is ahead of him in so many ways. I think he's a way more dynamic shooter. I think he's a better passer. I think it's a little. It's close, but I just think. I think what I said earlier really illustrates it. Honestly. I. But I do think I have con. I. I think I have him ahead of you all. Like, I think he's flirting with blue chip to me, like, I think it's pretty close.

[A]

Can I briefly invoke the name Dijon Salon?

[B]

Well, we haven't even talked about Lamello ball yet.

[A]

I guess if we must.

[B]

I mean, he's still on this list. He's still 24.

[C]

Remarkably.

[B]

We just talked about talk 10 minutes before we got to him. You were gonna talk about t shots for him. I guess that's where we are in the conversation with the mellow, though. We're just really sick and tired of everything happening over and over and over again where it's like, what's next? What's new gonna happen here to change this malaise we've fallen into.

[A]

I don't have money. Defenses of Lamelo left.

[B]

Yeah. And you were an ardent defender.

[A]

I believe in the talent. I believe in the vision and the creativity. He just does a lot of dumb stuff. He's been doing it for a long time. But the balance is. Has tipped, I think.

[C]

Think I'll say this in terms of talent. Just pure talent in a vacuum.

[B]

He's.

[C]

He is. He's in the top five of this. Of this pool, I think. I think he might Even be top three in terms of, like, his. His just ability. He's a more talented passer than Cade Cunningham. He's a more talented reader. He's a more talented ball handler than Ca. But he is just so fucking volatile. And I love him to. I love. I won't say I love to watch him play. Not always. He. He chases it a little much for me. If he were a little bit more 0.5, I think he could unleash absolute hell in the right circumstances. Stance. It's just. Can he stop making me want to claw my eyes out when I watch her and, you know, can he. Can he impact winning basketball? Because there are times, like, I've joked about this with him playing next to the steadiness of Khan. They are just a hilarious con contra contrast next to each other. And. And you just watch them and I. I have to think Khan at times is looking at him just like, what on earth? They're just so different.

[A]

I mean, you hear Khan talk and he's somehow the adult in the room, and he's the rookie on this team in a lot of ways. I. I still do love watching Lamelo sometimes. He makes me want to believe in a way that basically no other player does. And this has just been an incredibly tough season to watch him.

[C]

Lamelo is Johnny Cage. I've said this repeatedly. Lamelo is Johnny Cage. He has all the stuff. You look at him and we're like, we know that you. We know that you can pretend to be the guy. You look like you're the movie star vision of a dude's dude. We need you to be a real dude when it's the. It's nut cut in time. We need you to be the. The real thing.

[B]

Having said that, I. I still have him as a maybe. Despite all.

[A]

I think the talent. I think the talent warrants it.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

He's on the short list if it ever clicks.

[C]

Holy Johnny Cage guy. Shadow kick.

[A]

No, that felt disrespectful. To compare literally anybody to Johnny Cage. It's like the ultimate empty suit, fake compliment.

[C]

No, I don't think it's a. I don't think it's an insult. I think he's just got a lot of game he's got to do.

[B]

He wasn't a Cage guy.

[C]

Okay. I was. Let's see. I liked a lot of Liu Kang. I was good with Liu Kang. I was really good with Rain. I would piss people off. And ultimately, because I was good with the, like, fry them with the lightning, we can move on Anyway, who is Khan Sub Zero?

[B]

Chun Li.

[A]

Wrong game, dog.

[C]

Oh, Kung Lao.

[A]

Khan, Lao.

[C]

Khan, Lao. Very, very Mortal Kombat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Chun Li Street Fighter.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

You thought Chun Li was immortal combat?

[B]

Sorry, strike it from the record.

[C]

The pie.

[A]

Edit it out.

[B]

This is so embarrassing.

[A]

You never come back from that one.

[B]

All the people listen to the Hornet session.

[C]

It would be kind of funny.

[B]

Into part two.

[C]

Chun Li gets her head ripped out with a spider. You can't really see that.

[A]

It's tough to watch, I gotta admit.

[B]

Do you want to talk about Salon? Just to dig us out of this hole.

[A]

Mostly just he's finally put together, I would say maybe some of the best games of his career lately.

[B]

Sick.

[A]

Worthy of note. They don't ask a lot of him, but I do feel like he's been a little less manic recently and I appreciate that of him. Slightly more in control underlying. Slightly more in control.

[B]

Okay, moving on. Number eight, the Minnesota Timberwolves who have Anthony Edwards. That's all they fucking need.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

There's some other guys.

[A]

Moving on. Next on the list.

[B]

I guess if you wanted to support their case. Johan Berenger qualifies as an asset.

[C]

I'm in. Still, I'm very.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I don't like. Honestly, I like Jalen Clark for what he is and I like yo on Behring. As far as big man prospects, I'm in on Johan Baron.

[B]

J. Yeah. Do they get demerits for having Rob Dillingham?

[A]

I don't want to write him off.

[B]

I still have him as an asset.

[A]

Just because.

[C]

That's what I was going to say. I think we are barreling towards that. Somebody else might have belief in him and that has value.

[A]

That's the thing. He. He just can't do the stuff the Wolves need him to do right now. And so long as that's the case, he's always going to be up like really up against it with them.

[C]

He's probably best suited for a team that has a little more backcourt security, that needs somebody to come in and be a lie detector guy who thinks he's Steph Curry and come in and fill it up for a few minutes. But if you're looking for security with him, he's just not proven that he can stability. He just can't. Can't do it.

[B]

Would you rather have him or Jared McCain right now?

[C]

God, if I'm the W. If I. Healthy Jared McCain.

[B]

Yeah, just right.

[A]

Aaron McCain would be really good for the Wolves.

[C]

It could. Do you solve your defensive issues?

[B]

No, but you just need anything. If you could just get a little spice of pop that's just going all over the place with the metaphor there, but spicy pop. We're an hour three of podcasting and you can tell also this is. We're going an hour into this show and we. We're at number eight, so we gotta pick it up a little bit.

[C]

All right, let's pick up the pace.

[A]

But we are at number eight and we're. We're here at number eight basically entirely, as we're saying, because of Anthony Edwards and the shadow of Johan Baron. J.

[B]

But you didn't answer the question about McCain or.

[A]

Oh, I said McCain definitively. I'd rather McCain. Gotcha. I don't really believe in Rob Dillingham. I'm not ready to like leave him for dead. And I want him to be good, but he hasn't been good yet. And the Wolves need players who will actually contribute to their winning cause, get.

[B]

Us back on track. I'm sorry.

[A]

I'm here to say only that the Wolves are at ranking this high because they don't have the depth of the Jazz or the Hornets or whoever or the Nets, but they nailed down the one and most important thing you can possibly do, which is get the franchise level guy to run your young core.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so Anthony Edwards is just more important than basically any player we've talked about so far.

[C]

And I think his progression plays into a lot of that. I mean, early in his career, we've just seen his decision making prowess like expand year over year. His efficiency on all fronts has gotten better. I think we've seen him harness like Ant is not the same level, you know, decision maker or creative player as like a, like a Cade. Like Cade was. Cade was like a really smart pick and roll player who was looking for the spacing. Like he didn't. But he also didn't have the self creation tools that Ant had at his disposal. And I think we've seen Ant over the course of his first, you know, first few years in the NBA, we've seen him understand that I can do something very simple with the tools that I have and my job is done. I don't always have to hit a home run. I don't always have to do something spectacular in a ball screen. And we've seen him, you know, they'll tilt the floor at him and he gets off the ball and I. It's been really nice to see him grow as a decision maker in that way.

[B]

In terms of development, we're talking about all These like small things that guys can do to get a little bit better Ants, literally, like calling up Jordan, being like, how do you deal with the toughest level of basketball being played?

[C]

So.

[A]

And it's deserved completely. Michael Jordan should take Anthony Edwards call. That's the crazy, crazy part. Yeah.

[B]

Number seven, the Dallas Mavericks. Similar situation. One blue ass chip prospect and Cooper Flag. But a little bit more depth. A little.

[A]

But couple guys. Why are the Mavs above the Wolves?

[B]

Because they have more.

[A]

Wouldn't it, wouldn't it be a dream if Cooper Flagg is as good as Anthony Edwards?

[B]

Yes, but this is where the depth starts to play in, at least for me. And I'm curious what you think, Kyle, because Derek Lively before this injury, which we should talk about, he's getting pretty serious at this point. But Max Christie's solid.

[A]

Like Max Christie.

[B]

Like obviously not Austin Reeves, but that's a rotation player that anyone would love to have. He's shooting the hell out of the ball, especially from the corners. Ryan Nemhardt, a guy on a two way now he's going to be a rotation guy. We like him pretty soon. Like those are three guys. Whatever you want to classify them that the Wolves just do not have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like all three of those guys I prefer over Jalen Clark.

[A]

All true. If all those guys become, let's say all those supporting guys become the best versions of themselves and Cooper Flag becomes a good player, but not Anthony Edwards. Getting Anthony Edwards is more important than any of that stuff.

[B]

I mean, I'm just saying we're splitting hairs. Like they're.

[A]

Oh, totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just trying to make the art like the, the depth versus high end star talent.

[B]

You're just saying you weighed the stars more than the depth.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think if you have the bird in the hand and the bird is Anthony freaking Edwards, it's pretty valuable.

[B]

But then like that's not the spirit of the exercise, which is just like let's, let's talk about Kayson Wallace and like his development as a dribble.

[A]

We're going to get there, brother.

[C]

I really weigh. This has been kind of my thought process the whole time. I weigh this even though the, you know, I had a point system that I was telling you all about that added up and kind of helped me based on what I thought these guys would be on each individual team. I tallied them up and then ranked them. But the Dallas, Dallas came out a little lower and you know, reflecting the depth that you all are talking about. But for me, I think something that is really important is Cooper's young number one. But also Cooper. Cooper has. In terms of. There's some guys on this list like we extensively talked about, like Derek Queen, like what do you got to do? Like the conditions to sort of optimize these guys. I don't feel like the conditions to optimize Cooper are very narrow at all because he is so multifaceted. The range of things that he does is so dynamic that I think it enables your decision making in a way that I think has to be weighted a little bit. Maybe you could say that's a superlative of him and he should have had a higher score either way. I just think that he. He does a lot of things and I don't know. I think in terms of the way he thinks and feels the game. If we're talking about him versus Ant, even hypothetically, I think he's way ahead of Ant. He's just doesn't have the same physical tools.

[A]

I think the way. I think that's true. But what they're asked to do is so different. And you could see it. You play Cooper at point guard, which is basically what Anthony Edwards plays and you see the limitations of that. I see Cooper's experience this season is uniformly positive. He took his lumps. He dealt with a lot of noise with the Nico Harrison situation. He filtered out a lot. He played out of position. And he just looks so clearly excellent like to me. And part of what makes me so bullish about him, what makes him so obviously a real deal prospect that could even get to an Anthony Edwards level someday if he hits like the highest version of his of himself is like he has the athleticism. He also has a lot of polish and he has this intermediate game that I think really opens things up a lot for him. So yeah, he's going to get to the basket and dunk, but he's got like a little like a lot of variety in the floater range. That makes it really hard to stop him.

[B]

Should also mention there have been a couple ties that we've just glossed over that Isaiah broke. This is one of them.

[A]

This is one of them.

[B]

Where they. They tied and he picked.

[A]

So I have Isaiah specifically to blame.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Let's not over romanticize early on ball and in his career too in that like he was 0.793 in the pick and roll and on a pretty big volume as a. He was pretty messy. I'm just saying this speaks to us like being a little bit like. Like the. The present and seeing what these guys have become. Can make us sort of discount like where it started. So I do. I definitely think Cooper can get to a high place.

[A]

I'm not saying Ant's always been that guy. I'm just saying I like the certainty of who he is now is so great that even for Cooper, a guy who's 19 years old and has all this promise and can do all this stuff, you still got to get there. You still got to climb the mountain to get to the Anthony. The Edwards threshold is like, basically, can you get on an MVP ballot? That. That's. That's what we're about.

[C]

Talking.

[A]

Talking about.

[B]

I'm pretty worried about Derek Lively.

[A]

Same.

[B]

So 55 games his first season. 36 last year. 7. He's gonna end up playing this year because he just had surgery. It's gonna shut him down. I think the description is really when I was like, grimacing. So surgery on his right foot in July to clean out bone spurs. Then he missed two and a half months last season due to a stress fracture in his right ankle.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

An injury that was originally misdiagnosed at Duke as a right ankle sprain.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I was thinking.

[A]

No, this was the Mavs training staff.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Basically initially cleared him to return to play and at the last minute caught that. Actually, this thing is basically broken. Yeah. Yikes. Not great.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was thinking he had broken foot issues all the way back to college. Like, this is something that's like, goes beyond.

[A]

It's been lingering.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

The only silver lining is that it just clarified their lineup in a way that Flag has popped and it's playing with a normal NBA lineup for two weeks now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, let's see, this two months from now. You'd be talking about Flag is on a different level than he is right now.

[A]

And Lively, if he. If he can get healthy enough to play consistently. I feel like he's just scratching the surface of what he can be as a handoff guy. In particular, like, he has pretty good feel on short roll stuff. Working that kind of high playmaking game. There's always talk about, like, oh, he's going to start shooting threes. I don't know, man. But he can do this other stuff.

[C]

Converted on that one. That's a little rough, but yeah, I agree with you.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Decent decision maker in the short roll. Yeah.

[B]

Well, you quibbled about Dallas being over Minnesota. I'm going to quibble about the Hawks being over Dallas because similar situation where you have the one big old blue chipper, Jalen Johnson.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Who for some Reason Rich Paul is trying to trade to the Milwaukee Bucks for Giannis. Don't really see that. Why. But anyway, just briefly on Jalen Johnson, by the way. So he's at 22. 10 and eight. So 22 points, 10 rebounds, eight assists right now. Eight assists. Good Lord, please push my wig back. That's only. So I. I typed that into like stat head trying to find who had that this year, and I accidentally did it all time and there's only been five players who have done it all time. It's Jokic five times, Russ four times, Oscar three times, and then Wilt once. And I was like, God damn. I knew he was up to something, but like, good Lord, he's come along.

[A]

Further faster than I ever could have anticipated. And we are basically charter members of his fan club club.

[B]

Well, Rob definitely is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I picked him up in fantasy because of Rob.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

Yeah, I get a kickback for that. No, because you recommended Trey Mann the next year and that didn't pan out.

[A]

Well, I. I appreciate that you take my take seriously, though.

[B]

Yeah. I believe in you.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

It's amazing that we think of him as somebody that's kind of come out of nowhere, but it really is just. He's course corrected in a way that is really nice to see because we'll see guys get derailed early in the creed. Such an odd college sample, such an odd start, get got drafted late trying to find his way. It's honestly, he's just kind of right at the ship in a way that I think a lot of people expected him to be here. But it is saying something to do that because guys will get off course and we just don't see him ever get there again. Like a Kuminga. Whereas. Whereas Johnson really has got it together.

[A]

He also does something that a lot of combo forwards don't, which is he rebounds the shit out of the ball. And it's like he's a big physical force on the glass in a way that when you get these tweener, three, four, like, they can play, make, they can run, they can do all this stuff. Stuff, they're almost always soft on the glass. And Jalen Johnson is not that.

[B]

He has a real thumper energy to him, which I thought he would be more of a role guy, but obviously this year he's developed into something completely different than that. The ancillary guys are where it gets tricky with the Hawks as the Livery injury. I don't think it was as dire as it ended up being when we did this initially and so less of a quibble now than then. But like Dyson, Daniels is an interesting case study. Like, obviously a defensive menace, but the offense is really starting to satisfy. And you can also say that about Rishi to a certain extent. He doesn't have the defensive reputation right. And the chops that back that up. But, you know, we kind of expected that from him. Despite going number one overall, they're kind of. They're okay. I wonder if the reputation is a little bit over the moon on Daniels just because of last season when ultimately settling back into a pretty spotty offensive player.

[A]

I think it's some depth. Like you mentioned, those key guys like Asa Newell could also be something interesting. I like Mogay as kind of a filler defender on this team in particular. But ultimately with Dyson, the problem is he's like, he just stopped shooting. Like, he just stopped taking the threes.

[B]

Taken 44 this year, and he's only made seven.

[A]

Damning, like really, really damning to just like stop taking them altogether.

[B]

Especially because Snyder was pushing him, despite all evidence, to take as many as he could last year in part to push through that. It's bad to see that step back.

[A]

And now he just looks him off and it puts him in a very weird spot offensively, even as the Hawks around him have kind of like really found their rhythm and their engine in terms of their style of play. He is the guy who's interrupting it a lot of times, which is unfortunate.

[C]

He's one of the best assignment guys among this age group in this group in the league. I mean, you know, he's still super, super disruptive defensively, you know, repeatedly among the top guys in the league on that, regardless of age. But yeah, that's a flow killer when you're, when you're. We talked about that with Anthony Black. When it's like when you don't look, it's just kind of. You've just stopped everything. You no longer have an advantage on offense. And he's gonna have to figure something out for that, for that to be a long term viability.

[A]

The thing with Rizachet, though, he's been good, not great. And ultimately his ceiling is just so much higher than someone like Max Christie. If we want to do the Mavs comparison, like, there's a potential for him to explode and become not Jalen Johnson, but, you know, an even better multifaceted version of a, Of a large wing that is knifing through and doing all this interesting stuff.

[B]

It's tough because every time I want to express how cold I am by him or left cold by him. It's just, you look at the draft that he was in, it's like. Like, was there, like, a clear, definitive answer? Like, Castle would have been the clear, definitive. We'll talk about him later. But, like, other than that, unless, like, SAR would have been better. Like, that would have been great, but now we're, like, splitting hairs to a certain extent. Like, I just don't. I don't see. I would like to see a flash from say, of something beyond just rotational wing defender, potential shooter. He's not really a shooter at this point.

[A]

I think we saw some of it over the back half of last season. It's just this year has not been.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Full of those kinds of flashes in a way that I was certainly hoping for. And I thought even in the preseason he was looking a little more assertive, and it kind of opened my eyes to it. But it. He hadn't really paid it off.

[B]

So we talked about Anthony Black. So let's get to number five, the Orlando Magic. This is when it starts getting serious. We're talking about multiple blues, baby. The question is how many blues? Because I have a couple maybes in the midst of the blues. Paulo and Franz. Oh, I love it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Are they. Are they minted blue chip prospects?

[B]

I have. I have one on my final 15. Not both. Because we're talking about this point forward, by the way, not based off of track record and success.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Who will.

[A]

Who will kind of end up the best prospects?

[B]

Not production.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I think we all know. I mean. I mean, I think we all know who the concern guy is at this point.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I mean, if we're talking about Howard. Yeah. Jet's been scrappy, a little feisty lately.

[A]

He's actually been shooting, which is an important part of being a shooter.

[B]

Back on track here.

[C]

Yeah. Well, yeah, he attacked the spot up the other day against Brunson. Took him to the basket. I liked it. I was happy about it. No, on the. In terms of blue chippers for this team, I obviously, blue chipper's tough. Cause it's like blue chip hard means top 15 for you is what you're saying.

[A]

He's saying, like a lock for the top 15.

[C]

The Powell thing, I think, is probably more of a recency worry. I don't know. I kind of. It's hard to. It's hard to sort of just like, separate him from the way that this situation, the challenges that they have, where it's just like in. In a vacuum Do I think that Paolo Banchero with a roster that is built well. Yeah. That. That is tailored to him and optimized to him. Granted, I don't think it's not as wide as. As like a Cooper. The highs. It's tough that. I think that's probably what's driving it. And I assume. Right. Powell is the guy. Right. That we're talking about as opposed to or just Franz.

[A]

I think there's some of both, to be honest with you. I think. I think what's complicated about this. This conversation, to your point is there's not really the debate we're having is whether these guys fit. That's what we're always talking about with the Magic. Like do can they fit together to be a contending level team?

[C]

I know the pieces fit.

[A]

I have no idea what you're saying.

[C]

Tool.

[B]

You know, I'm not.

[A]

I'm not on the. The ear level. Recognition of random Tool lyrics. That's just not how that was.

[C]

That was Schism.

[A]

That was a hit, believe you.

[B]

We were at the Taking Back Sunday concert. Dog slightly adjacent.

[C]

You know, I like three Tool songs.

[A]

A little too much Prague in my rock, if you ask me.

[B]

But wait, so you have Paulo in. In Franz out or.

[C]

I thought it would be the opposite.

[A]

To me, I have like a cert. A very select group of absolute locks. And then they're in the next group of probably. They will probably end up here. But am I 100% certain?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

Okay. And you had Franz in Apollo out.

[C]

Yes. See, I had it flipped Bronze third team for me.

[B]

I don't disagree that Franz has looked better even in the. The solo role with the compliment of the roster around him. It's just if we're leaning on potential going forward.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I. I can't bet against.

[A]

And to kind of crystallize that idea. It's not just potential going forward. We're basically saying is there will be a point where Franz Wagner is like one of the 15 best players in the world. And I don't know that that's ever going to be true. I think he's. I think Franz is awesome. I really like Paolo. I think he's immensely talented.

[C]

Not exactly with this exercise because I. I'm just saying this age group. I don't know about that.

[A]

It's not exactly because there's still the veterans in the mix, but we're saying he's one of the most like one of the most vaunted prospects. I think that's largely true. But is he has he been validated, Franz or Paulo in the way that Anthony Edwards has or even Evan Mobley has? I think these other guys have just proven a little bit more in terms of individual accolade, but also team success.

[B]

I just couldn't do it with Paulo. I think I'm a coward. But I just, just. I've seen it work and obviously it hasn't been super efficient, but like God damn the skill at that size and when it. He's done it in the playoffs, which few of these players actually have. We talked at length about Jalen Johnson. He has, he had the moments like against the Celtics, like Paulo had just last year. They have some, a lot of things to figure out there. Paulo in particular is probably near the top of the list at that point. But if they were so if the.

[C]

Hawks were as clunkily kind of had the same kind of fit issues, if Jalen Johnson were just claw machined over into that scenario, do you think that that would affect. And Paolo was on a team that had a little bit more space with some. I don't know.

[A]

I mean Paolo in on a more streamlined team I think would be something to really behold and we would probably talk about him completely differently. The difference is Jalen Johnson to me is such a natural facilitator of flow. Like if you have any movement to your offense, he will fit into it, he will accentuate it, he will like enhance its best elements. Paolo has always been like a little too deliberate for that. And even Franz can be a little bit too straight line direct in terms of the way he attacks. They're both awesome players, but how they fit and the breadth of circumstances that really suit them I think is part of this conversation.

[B]

Yeah. Could you lean into the lineup that the Hawks have now where they're emphasizing their defense and just getting up and down in the flow as you're mentioning. Like Paulo disrupts flow and he doesn't contribute to high level defense. Like they've built a good defense around him despite him in certain instances. And so.

[A]

Well, let me ask you guys this. I mean we're talking about the way that they play off each other and what the best circumstances would be. As you are ranking young cores. Does the synergy of Paolo and Franz matter or is it just which are the most talented collections of players?

[B]

I didn't think about them like playing together. Yeah, it's almost like does an all NBA team need to be able to look and play like an actual NBA team?

[A]

I think the only difference is if you're conceptualizing it as a young core then the idea is this is like a, the nucleus of something. Right.

[B]

But in that case, Anthony Edwards, that's playing off of Jalen Clark.

[A]

You know, I mean they're pretty good pair. One of them scores, one of them stops.

[C]

You know, I think if, if we're going to agree that like in like sort of Genesis Aqua things like like asset bloat or you're talking about, you know, if, if I to ding even ding one bring mine into question about like Cooper's sort of like long term build versatility. I think you do probably, I mean if you, if you hit on something like I do think there's something to be said about evaluating a player with the player that you have and like projecting how they fit with them because we've happen where guys get drafted and we're like that'll fit, that'll work. And then it doesn't. So yeah, I think that should go in the criteria of, of maybe we'll have that for next year.

[B]

So I didn't think about them all building into something. I thought it was more about the collection of talent.

[A]

So a man is an island to you.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

I made a tracks.

[B]

But the good thing is beyond those two guys, they do have quite a bunch of interesting guys. Jalen Suggs I have as a maybe we love. I wish I could make him a blue. I just want him on my maybe.

[A]

Also I would make a whole new team just to put Jalen Suggs on it. Like I don't care what the exercise is. I don't care what we're doing. Let's just reward him with something. The mate is breaking his hips for us.

[B]

You know, I really hope he's okay. Anthony Black.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Guy. Or maybe I think he's a guy. Okay. But on the. On the way toward maybe perhaps a.

[A]

Maybe blue chip player. Anthony Black's really good. What are we talking about?

[C]

I don't know about. Yeah, blue chip level. I had him and I actually had Tristan Da Silva as like a potential like top 100 level guy. Could happen.

[A]

It could. This is also your program reminder that Tristan dasilva is older than all of these other guys.

[C]

That's very true.

[A]

Franz Paula, Jalen Suggs, everybody older than all of them.

[C]

I just like him. He's just a good player.

[B]

Yeah. Then they have Jace Richardson asset and then obviously Jet and no appenda rounded out. This is the stage we're getting to where it's also.

[A]

You know what, I'm also a panda guy.

[B]

Great team Penda this is a stage where there's, like. There's very few misses. Right. All the guys are, like, recent first round picks and are interesting in their own right. You had the magic pretty high, though. You had them third, ultimately.

[C]

Yes, I did. And a lot of that was weighted on. I had. I had Suggs rated pretty high. And then my belief in da Silva and what. What I said. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, let's go on to number four, then.

[A]

Actually, can I make one proposal before we do? Regarding. No appenda.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, we. We had our. Our beef Borg onion conversation a while ago. I think Noah Penda might be our beef porgarnon. Big stocky dude, plays with a ton of energy. Looks like he might wall you up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Knock you out for a little while. Like a good beef Borg and yon. Will.

[C]

He's in the. He is in the. I'm blanking on Yavis. He's in the Yava Selle like trunk.

[A]

Yeah, like.

[C]

Like, that dude is just, like. People bounce off of him. He is just such an impressively big person. Watching him, like, run in transition in the NBA has been. I've been like, oh, I don't know if this is good, but he does a lot of stuff, man. He's interesting.

[A]

He's got a little. Yeah. The mechanics of his run are not great. It's a little, like, quoppy, if you.

[C]

Know what I mean. Oh, yeah. I reference quop a lot with runners.

[A]

What's the.

[B]

What's the steak or the meat that you put a layer of. Of. Of, like, baked good on top of it? It's not a London broil.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Beef Wellington. Yes.

[B]

Kind of reminds me of a beef Wellington.

[A]

I mean, I like that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Wrong country, though.

[C]

I know somebody's gonna tell us the answer. They always do. Yeah.

[B]

Did you prepare that going into the evening, or did that just come off the dome?

[A]

No, I flagged it. I was like as soon. As soon as I was looking at their cord, thinking about how much I actually do like, no appenda.

[C]

Maybe that is the answer.

[A]

The Frenchie. The Frenchie. The French beefy guy we're looking for.

[B]

I like it. Number four. No Frenchies on this one, but a little beef, little heft. We're talking about the Houston Rockets. I had them at three, Rob had them at four, Kyle had them at four. All in agreement. I have two blue Chippers on this one. Shen, Goon, Amend Thompson.

[A]

I think that's right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think that's right. And I think Reed might be a maybe Someday.

[B]

Reed's a maybe. I also had to think about Jabari Smith as a maybe, Tari Easton as a maybe.

[A]

How crazy is it that a team with all those guys is not even in the top three? Three.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And yet it's right.

[C]

The kids are all right, man. Yeah. I'd read as a. Like, a. Could be a top 100. I mean, is he in the top 100 right now?

[A]

Not as of yet, but we're about.

[C]

We're due for an update, you guys. I was. And then. Yeah, let's see. Jabari Atari, I said had potential to do that. And then I'm in. And Alpie were my two.

[B]

Okay. I'm curious where they end up in terms of the. The list, because we're breaking down into three teams, but we'll get to that later. It's just wild to think about, like, a couple years ago when James Harden was just, like, getting fat and forcing his way out like that. Birthed this, which is really something. This. This happened in short order. Like, they have nailed picks in a way, and most of the teams we're going to talk about have nailed picks in a way that, like, I think we don't stop down and think about enough. Right.

[A]

Like, teams don't.

[B]

Don't do this. But a lot of teams have recently.

[A]

Well, and for such a funky team, this is a chord that makes sense together. Right. Sengun Amen Thompson and Jabari and Reed, they. They kind of COVID a lot of the bases as far as thinking about the future of this team is going to be like, they. They complement each other really well. They fill the gaps really well. Yeah, maybe you would prefer a little more spacing than that combination, but if Reed turns out to be as good as he can be, that might not be as much of a problem. And so it's a. It's not theoretical. It's just a good collection of young players that is currently today carrying water for one of the best teams in basketball. Pretty awesome.

[C]

Yeah. I wonder. I mean, I did have some deliberation at times about, you know, like, what would like, Hughes, what would Orlando look like if they had had the luxury of, like, landing a Kevin Durant? Because he's definitely elevated what they do, and we're seeing them apply to winning in a way that.

[B]

It.

[C]

That is really interesting. But, yeah, I mean, they've kind of just gone through. They really leaned into the. The, like, sinewy. We're gonna. We're gonna make your life hell wing defender. And they sprinkled in some skill with the Jabari and the Reed stuff. So. And it works.

[B]

How hard did you have to think about either Shen Goon or Amen for that top 15.

[A]

I feel like Amen is the kind of prospect who I just am willing to rule nothing out at this point. So he's. I value him very highly. Sengun. The question is he already has made like three jumps. How many more jumps does he have in him? And is the player he currently is good enough to cement him into that blue chip conversation? I think it probably is. Regardless, you know, he's. This year in particular, his ability to manage and orchestrate offense, I think has just hit a totally different level. He's in that Jalen Johnson category of just like ho hum, seven assists a game. All of a sudden really mature, sophisticated stuff where he's just kind of driving and maneuvering within an offense that is really hard for a big to do.

[B]

Did you like him coming into the draft? Shangun?

[C]

I wasn't high enough. I'll say. I didn't hate him. I just kind of. I definitely once he. Once I saw him on. In an NBA context, I was like, oh yeah, this is. It was kind of. It was the reverse of. Of Yang where I was. I just kind of had a hard time. I wondered if he was like a bully. Like if he was a below the rim bully guy. His like technique in passing. He's manipulative. The seven assist thing doesn't surprise me at all because when we were coming into the season when I was like kind of just going through figuring out how they would figure out the Fred Van Val thing, I was like shing Goon's their best passer. And I, I don't even think it's arguable. So this, this hasn't been a surprise on that front. Front.

[B]

Yeah. The defensive leap last year was when I bought in fully where it's like, oh, if you're gonna just solve that, like what can you figure out? And then obviously he went on to have the Euro League experience where he was just dominant in a way that like he few players are even in that league. Like the top creme de la creme guys are the ones that dominate in that sort of setting. But you're right, like I don't want to put a ceiling on him ultimately. I. Well, we'll get into this in the list though. But I, I'm curious about like whether or not you guys put a man over Shengun in terms of like ranking within the list.

[A]

It's tough.

[B]

But Jabari, I gotta Say, like, the more I watch the Rocket, the more I appreciate just how much he stitches together everything that they do. And the fact that, like, he's guarding like, like hardcore scoring wings at this point, at his size, it's just like any look that they're hoping to accomplish. The fact that they've unlocked this big ball that has trickled down to the rest of the league, where they're just like, creating a new trend where teams have to size up, up to stop them on the boards, says something. And I think Jabari is like a big part of that.

[A]

I think the question for so long in the NBA was, where do you find your Harrison Barnes, your guy who's like kind of a three, but can guard Zach Randolph? Now it's very much the opposite. It's like, how do you find your Zach Randolph that can guard Harrison Barnes? And Jabari is not Zach Randolph. But in terms of having an actual four that can lock and trail, that is a modern NBA invention. That's not a thing that existed 10 years ago. And yet here he is taking those assignments. So Kevin Durant doesn't have to sparing one of the most important teammates from having the burden of those assignments. It's like, immensely valuable to be able to do that. And it's just kind of quietly happening on the edge of every Rockets game.

[C]

Yeah, it's interesting. His defensive sort of versatility and malleability. It doesn't always flesh out on the offensive end. Like, we don't see. He doesn't get low in a stance and dribble the ball, but he doesn't have to. Like, the touches are spoken for. The facilitating is spoken for in a way that has taken pressure off of him.

[B]

Him.

[C]

He's. He's not going to kind of hit the highs that I think some people hope that he would offensively just because of that. But you're absolutely right. On the defensive end, his physicality and athleticism really pops.

[B]

Who's a better shooter, Tari Eason or Reed Shepherd?

[A]

Well, Tar Eason is leading the league in three point percentage still. He's been out, but still was before he got hurt.

[C]

Numbers never lie, right?

[B]

All right, we've reached the top three. Number three. Probably guess it at this point, considering the teams on the board. The Detroit Pistons. No, no shame there, being number three on this list. You had them though, number two. I did explain.

[A]

I mean, for two reasons. They're one of the only teams that has a comparable amount of, like, good young depth to the Thunder, which, spoiler alert, the Thunder are going to be one of the two remaining teams. They also have the single most important kind of young player, which is a guy who is not just a franchise guy, but currently like one of the 10 to 15 best players in the world. So if you have both of those things, aren't you number two?

[B]

I just think the depth of the Thunder ultimately tipped them. And if anything, I had the Pistons at four and you had them at five.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Why are y' all disrespecting one of our fine, great American working cities and the team that. That plays there?

[B]

I think the question is like, so they got. They have the top two. So I have blue chips on Cade and Jalen Duran.

[A]

Blue chip for Jalen Duran. Two lock.

[B]

He's going to make my list.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I could see the case for the maybe, but he was like probably the last guy in for me. He's awesome after that, especially in comparison to the last two teams on the list. There's good young talent, but I think there are more question marks. Ivy as just considering the injuries. Ron Holland, what is he? Assar Thompson, what is his offense? I would love to have all of these guys, but if we're like really splitting hairs here, I think that's ultimately why I went with the other two teams.

[A]

Will you allow me to make the case for obviously, Asar Thompson? I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't be the best perimeter defender in the world for the majority of.

[C]

His career other than his brother existing.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

So.

[A]

So you know, one of the Thompsons.

[B]

Is he a maybe?

[A]

I think he's a maybe. I think he's that good defensively and on. In terms of his offense. Yes. He can't shoot and who knows if that will always be the case or if that'll eventually come around. But he does so many other things and his feel. What really makes me positive about him is his feel. Working off the tic tac toe stuff with Kaden Durin, like, she knows how.

[C]

To cut off the smart cutter and a very smart passer off of incredibly.

[A]

And so if you can do all that, I'm. You can kind of fake the spacing. And if you're that good defensively, you are changing the game, period. Jalen Duran, whether he's a lock for the blue chip category or not. Currently younger than Cedric Coward, Ryan Cockbrenner, Ryan Nemhardt, Janik, Conan Niederhauser, the Project himself. Like, he's already this good and that young.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And has so much room to grow and all those Maybes. Like you have the maybes, but you have the certainties. And one of the certainties is Cade Cunningham, who is dynamic and an incredible playmaker and has shown and proven he can carry an offense as the primary engine of it. And so if I have all of those things, why would that not be enough?

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

Hey Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[A]

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[C]

Is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

[A]

And this year he wants you to.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Now you don't even need to wrap it.

[A]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[B]

Of $45 for 3 month plan to.

[A]

According equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only.

[B]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy taxes and fees extra.

[C]

See mintmobile.com I had 3 in the tiers of like levels, layers, whatever heights, whatever you want to say. Three guys that I thought fit the mvp, potential MVP mold. It was Anthony Edwards, it was Wimbanyama. We'll talk more about him in a little bit. But Cade was one of them. I mean and I think think, I think you're right. I honestly I'll hear that argument. I mean I, I, I think that that's really fair. I mean I, I would be, I think you could, I could swap these and not lose any sleep.

[A]

One more thing about Cade too in terms of these like do it all offensive engine types. If we are currently really in like a weak link era of the NBA in which if you can't guard you're going to get picked on and that's a huge liability and problem. Cade is one of the first players of his kind that is not that very true. Right. He's not Luca on defense for everything wonderful that Luca does offensively and so he is doing a version of a heliocentric thing but he's an awesome defender and will make impact plays. And so if he's both of Those things. I mean, he. He really is like a unicorn in himself.

[B]

Listen, if we were just ranking the players, Kate is, I think, especially in comparison to the guys left on this list. He's number two behind one me in terms of players. Right. But I think this is where the diversity starts to impact. Like the, where they are in the rankings, how I saw them as a collection of talent. And I just think Kaden Duran for sure. And the Durin age thing is so funny because I was talking to Tyler Parker back here in the office and we were like, just trying to think about what his age was off top of our head. It's like, oh, he must have just made the cut. I think Tyler guessed like 27 or 28. Yeah.

[C]

Tyler gets 27 or 28.

[B]

I forgot what he said.

[A]

But to be fair, I wouldn't know how old Tyler is if you told me to put a number to it. He's an ageless wonder. He's been living in a cave for 50 years or he was a newborn baby. I honestly don't know.

[B]

It's a rat contour, truly. But the fact that he's only 22 at this point and he's just kind of scraping the surface of some of the skill there, he clicked in on the physical stuff and now there's just a world of possibility. This is scary.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And I think if we're going to talk about finding things that fit really well together, I mean, your projected star, I think putting Durin with Kade was really great. I just think that it's been interesting to watch, to watch him. Them come in, the new regime come in and start to alleviate some of these problems. Because the spacing things were so tough. And in his five year arc to date, this is the highest pick and roll efficiency that Cade has had. But I think that if you're gonna have, if you're gonna have an Asar, if you're gonna have a Jalen, you gotta figure out the shooting stuff. And I think they've done a good job of doing that.

[B]

Ivy, I have as a guy. Holland. I have as a guy Holland feels.

[A]

Like maybe a guy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He's a rotation player.

[B]

He's not an asset that well.

[A]

No, I'm just saying there are already.

[C]

There's no other categories.

[A]

What about Beef Stew? Is he a guy for you?

[B]

He's a fucking guy.

[A]

I mean, right?

[B]

Is he one? I mean, didn't bigger staff just call him the best defensive center in the league? I doubt he's quite that at this far, but like the RIM protection numbers are in limited minutes, we'll say, but they've always been, they've been Sterling.

[A]

He's been that kind of guy. He's certainly one of the best. Like undersized, gets up there and just erases everything kind of rim protectors. And between that and just the strength he plays with, with.

[C]

He blocks things that. He's just like a Humvee on a trampoline. Like, you just watch him, you see that body type, get to the, get to the heights that he gets to at times and I'm. Whoa. It's just kind of like almost Zion esque at times. I had, I had four guys other than Jalen and Cade that could be top 100 to me. And it was Holland, it was Aar, it was Jaden, and it was beef stew. So that's a good group. And I, I don't feel like that's super volatile. Like I think those are. I don't think you have to really strain a whole lot and do gymnastics to argue that those things could happen.

[B]

If you value all these things clicking together, I could see where you end up with the Pistons over.

[A]

We didn't even mention the name Danis Jenkins, who's again among the best two way guys in the league.

[C]

Probably all star. Yeah, right.

[B]

I think among the best two way guys in the league.

[A]

I mean two way contract guys in the league, not two way players in the league.

[B]

I wouldn't put it past you, honestly. Well, that leaves two teams at the top here. You probably guess where we ended up. Although this has nothing to do with the, the, the cup game that just happened. We, we ranked these before it, so. Not recency bias here, just hardcore analysis and synergy deep dives.

[C]

Well, nobody thought those young cores were good before last night. No.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

They had to prove it on the Vegas stage.

[B]

Right. But number two is the Oklahoma City Thunder. Two blue chippers. No arguments. I will hear no arguments that the.

[A]

J Dub Chat combo as a one two punch, just insanely tough to beat for the purposes of any like young core bullshit that we have concocted. Like how, again, how are you supposed to be that? And yet the Pistons did bullshit.

[B]

Well, it can be good bullshit.

[C]

Yeah. I mean the depth of this, the. We, you know, we're talking about Houston nailing picks. It's just a really fascinating triumvirate really here between OKC and, and, and Houston and, and then, you know, we'll talk about the team. Yeah, that was number one. But I, Yeah, I mean, Chad has another. I was Talking with Tyler about Chet just. He was saying he thought that Chet really took the ceiling off of this team. I think you even kind of go down into the depths, just go down the list and the people that they've hit on. Jalen obviously has more to show, I think. And then you start hitting on Guy Case, and I think on another team, I think we'd be having a different conversation about him, about how he could expand and add more things.

[A]

I'm already having lots of conversations about him. I don't know what you're talking about.

[C]

It's an absurd Scrooge McDonough duck. Amount of embarrassment, of riches. And then you start getting down into the weeds of, you know, Jalen Williams is a really important and fascinating guy. And then Topich, obviously in Sorber, who. We haven't even seen anything from those guys.

[A]

I think the topic Sorber, and this isn't part of this conversation, but Clippers pick. Yeah, that's like a shadow generation of talent that is just like lurking behind this already crazy deep group.

[B]

That's what kind of, I think, pushed them over some of these other teams that we just mentioned. It's like the abundance. It's unbelievable. And the thing with Chet, that kind of. I mean, I think we all know this, but it kind of goes unspoken. He's taken this leap, but it's such a streamlining of what he already did and is just doing better. He just doesn't go outside of the normal, like, constraints that OKC puts on all their players. Because they're not constraints, they're just like, they're putting in them in the exact role that they're designed to be in. But, like, if he was on another team just exploring a little bit more, like, he would be putting up like.

[C]

20, way more number, like, way more numbers.

[B]

10 and 7.

[A]

We like more numbers. We do like way more of them, if possible.

[B]

But I think that's just goes to show you, like, perhaps even, like, people would think about him even more if he had that opportunity.

[A]

Yes, I think. I think that that conversation exists with almost every one of these players. You mentioned case invol him on another team. AJ Mitchell's another case in this of, like, I don't even know how good he is because his ceiling is capped at a certain point with this group. Like, for as good as J Dub and Chet are, they are somehow nowhere near the best player on the Thunder. Like, Shay is in a class unto himself. They are so good, everyone in the supporting cast is capable of picking it up on the Right. Night. And AJ Is like, by force of will, inserted himself into that pecking order.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if you put him on a different team where he got starter level opportunity, who knows what he could do? And this is one of these areas where. If we're talking about this as like a holistic exercise, does that matter for a young core that you have so much talent? Like. Like, how do we. How do we judge A.J. mitchell? Do we. Do we judge him based off of what we believe to be the whole of his talent and who he could be or who he is for the Thunder within this role, which is a guy coming off the bench for the.

[C]

Best team in basketball, both are valuable. And I come back to the idea of just. I think you have to give credit. I don't think that, you know, when. When a guy's in a limited role, you can kind of look at it as like, well, that's, you know, the subservient to the cause kind of thing. And, you know, really, I think it's the opposite with. With a guy like Chet and with a guy like a guy like AJ These. We've been sitting in front of these lights for too long. I don't have any names at hand, but I just think that the ability to discern where the boundaries are and how to do that without losing confidence or getting mad, I think it's just a greater understanding of what makes a team great. I think that's why we're seeing the Oklahoma City Thunder be so fucking goddamn good.

[B]

It is the competition and his ability to blow through that in order to be something thing actually also making those guys better. Is it pushing them to unearth?

[C]

Oh, absolutely. The reps you're seeing every. On an everyday basis. That's a factor for sure.

[B]

It's this classic, like, we're in practice going against the. The other best guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And is that also creating a new advantage on top of the advantages?

[A]

It's crazy because, yeah, it's like the. Like, I'm trying to think of the right metaphor, but it's like. Like you put a bunch of mice in a bucket together and they're supposed to eat each other and then pile up the bodies and climb out. But instead they just built a little mouse ladder and they're just all climbing out together, and somehow they're all brilliant little mice. I don't even understand it.

[B]

Chaos is a mouse ladder.

[C]

Apparently a lot of unsold Game of Thrones killing people to develop kind of thing.

[B]

We're running out of references.

[A]

The Thunder are the Survival of the fittest team. It's just they only draft the fittest somehow, and so they all survive and they're all good. And now you have way too many guys to even give the minutes they deserve.

[B]

To that point, though, I am perversely curious about if ayyjayy ends up getting onto another team. Whether it's via trade because they just need to make. Make things happen with the contracts and all that, or someone sees an opportunity and overpays for him. Because I almost. I'm curious how these guys are going to exist in different environments. And I wonder if there's going to be sort of a New England Patriots Bill Belichick thing where it's like outside of the system, are they going to be able to do the same things or did the system actually bring out the best of them and people are going to be disappointed? I would be surprised. I could see like a Brogdon arc for AJ Mitchell, but I don't know. And I kind of want to see it play out.

[A]

I'm just looking at this list of guys and I feel confident in all of them. In basically any circumstance, even. Even someone like. Well, I mean, look, you get that far down the list, it's maybe a different conversation.

[B]

He plays though.

[A]

He does play.

[C]

It's crazy.

[A]

Jalen Williams, big Jalen Williams is maybe like the 5th to 7th most important player in this group and any team would be lucky to have him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like that's just a testament to what the thunder of Bill Kayson. Wallace, I think is just getting pretty scary at this point. Even within this role. He's not even doing all the stuff that another team would ask him to do. He's just one of the most terrifying defenders in the league.

[B]

Is he vaulting Daniels in the Dyson Daniels in the pickpocket category? Best hands in the league.

[A]

He's up there.

[C]

Ferocious, very strong, accurate.

[B]

All right, number one, San Antonio Spurs.

[A]

You may have guessed.

[B]

Yes. I have three blue Ch. Chippers on this. Three. Yeah. I got a little wild after watching. Watching the other day's game. I saw Stephanie.

[A]

I'm not mad at it. It's just we're going to have to get down to brass tacks about. I mean, look, Wemby, I think we're all on 40s, among the bluest that a blue chipper could possibly be. Castle and Harper are going to have to beat out some real guys and they have put themselves into that conversation deservingly. Castle with pure guile performance, I think just blowing away Any baseline for what he could be already. And then Harper just has that like, inimitable quality for a ball handler where he can do all the stuff that nobody can really do and everything else we kind of. You can kind of pencil in to come along at some point. So the hard, the hard part is out of the way for Dylan Harper. So I, I get what you're saying. I'm just going to need to see the list of the 15 names to, to fully understand who you're leaving out.

[C]

Dylan Harper is the highest. He's the guy who climbed the. Is that right? Well, Cooper is probably is ahead of him still for me, but he's, he's. He's in the top 15 for me. For. In the. In terms of the blue chippers. I, I think the big, the big thing for me is the points wise. I would, you know, I was saying how like Cade and how the guys who were MVP level. I didn't. I don't even. Victor breaks that in a way where I don't even think you can. I think his strongest MVPs way more than the strongest MVPs for some of these other guys. Like I say, I. 10 points was an MVP for me in my scale. I was like, I have to give Victor like a, like a 13 to accurate, accurately represent this. The only thing that kept me. I actually ended up having the spurs second because of the, the worry about the availability. Like that was the only thing that kind of tilted me because they came out to the exact same score and I just leaned towards OKC just because of that. That reality. I think or worry has to say.

[A]

I get what you're saying, but if you gave every GM in the league a player to kind of reset their franchise with, I think there's a decent chance you go 30 for 30. Wemby like I think every team might pick Victor Webanyama as the guy to restart a franchise with and that. That's the starting point. And then you go through and the spurs have every kind of young player you could possibly want. They have that guy. Multiple other players as we alluded to in Castle and Harper, who could be all Stars. They have incredibly streamlined role players. They've got the garbage men who can just fill out a rotation. It's just like a stunning collection of talent and it's all within our age bracket somehow as a young core.

[B]

And it's so funny to have these conversations as like the Giannis chatter just kind of heats up where it's like, why? Yeah, you're kind of just Building a dynasty in house. And I mean I obviously think very highly of Harper and Castle, but I just, the more I see about those guys, the more I just feel like they're just like rock solid title piece, like high level superstar sort of guys. And it's like to have three of those, let alone have Fox just like hanging out, being like remember me, like it's, it's unbelievable. So I have those three guys as blue. How many blue did you end up having?

[A]

I think, I think Wimby absolutely. The other two maybe hopefully blues. So we'll see.

[B]

And you had Harper.

[C]

I had Harper blue and I have Castle. Castle's in my top 15 also. And I had Carter, Bryant and Sohan have the potential to be top 100 guys.

[B]

Do you see this for Castle? Especially after last year, we saw some setbacks, we saw like the potential, but it seemed like he would be someone who's digging offense out of the dirt a little bit more or doing more off of activity rather than being what he is now. Where it feels like his activity just like makes like amazing things happen.

[C]

I think he's always kind of given he, he always had the off like the shooting was always a thing that stopped me from being like, okay, this guy could carry and facilitate an offense. But the, the sort, the grit, the getting to the rim. He's such a, he's a two way play. He's always had kind of point guard sensibilities without ever winning me totally over with the scoring. So I, yeah, I always thought the point guard sensibilities were there to answer your question. So on that level. Yeah. So he just needed to be. If he's leaned on to the right extent. He adds an awful lot in terms of like quality decision making.

[A]

I think I just love this team. I mean you mentioned Carter Bryant too. Kyle. He barely even plays for the Spurs. I think he would be the most interesting prospect on maybe 10 teams.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he barely plays. Barely even a factor in our like weighted analysis of making the spurs the number one team here. It's ridiculous.

[B]

I had him as an asset also Jeremy Sohan as an asset just because he was highly drafted.

[A]

Yeah. Where do you have Julian Champagne?

[B]

Not guy. I have him as nothing because he was in guy status.

[A]

He's a guy.

[B]

He's a guy.

[C]

He didn't quite get any, any like tier label for me, but I don't dislike him.

[B]

Well, it's funny we're grading on a different scale because before we were Jake Laravia, just the fact that he played rotation minutes, he Was a guy, but.

[A]

Like Jake Laravia wishes he was Julian Champagne. Justin Champagne wishes he was Julian Champagne.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

What about David Jones, Garcia?

[A]

I mean, you know, I love him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Again, one of the best two way players in the league to a contract player.

[C]

Another lie detector guy. Jones, Garcia, you watch him out there, man. He's like, he's like, I'm the captain and on this possession, he's a madman.

[A]

He's also in the vein of these guys who are kind of of on random two ways. A little young in the tooth for the young core rankings.

[B]

Like, he's.

[A]

He's 24 going on 28 all of a sudden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I love watching him play.

[B]

Should we figure out our blue chippers right now?

[A]

I think we simply must get the knives out.

[B]

Yes. So who are the.

[A]

Who are the. Like lock, lock, throw away the key. Blue chippers.

[B]

Right. So remember, if you're listening at home, this is prospects. It's not production based on what we have right now. This is in best players. This is best long term potential.

[C]

It's a little bit of proven a little. It's a balance.

[B]

Yeah. It's a potpourri. So I'll give you my first team and you guys can go from there. I have Wemby, Edwards, Cunningham, Mobley flag.

[C]

I did not have Mobley top five.

[A]

Rob, I'm wondering if Chad needs to be on this team.

[C]

I have Chad top five.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm open. Not J. I think, I think J is great. I think Chad is already like in a similar class and has a lot more he could potentially do in a way that really excites me as we're talking about like the long term prospects of these guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'd put. I'd put Chad as a prospect slightly ahead of J. Dub. Can we leave Evan Mobley off though? He's one of defensive player of the.

[B]

Year that I had this exact conversation in my head where it's like, yes, we ding him for this and that, but ultimately like what he is already. And then plus you add the potential to develop into that and it's actually a pretty easy path to get there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not easy, but like, you know, did you.

[C]

Did you guys make them as teams? Like, did you try to fit them? Okay.

[B]

Because I did.

[A]

We're doing that in real time right now.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So.

[C]

But no, I mean, like, you made like positional. You just. You just did.

[A]

I think it's all NBA style.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Five guys.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Five, six.

[C]

I leaned a little more towards team kind of thing, but it might honestly be close to that anyway. No, I had Mobley on the second team.

[B]

Okay, but you guys all had Flag.

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

I had Flag first team.

[A]

Okay, like what do we think the best version of Cooper Flag is, Is he the, is he the best player on a, on a contending team or is he the player that ties it all together on a contending team?

[B]

I mean you watch him more than anybody.

[C]

I think you're asking that comes down to can he be a high level self creator facilitator? Yeah, I just have a hard time betting against him in that and the, he is more out than like any prospect I've seen in recent memory.

[A]

If that's true, maybe we do put Mobley second team and we, and we put Cooper, we put Flag and Chad first team.

[B]

I think Flag's ultimate ceiling is somewhere in the Tatum range and you might need a Brown to complement him. Yeah, but you know, maths are setting themselves up at least for this draft in order to perhaps draft that.

[C]

I also don't think that he necessarily has to be like a championship level primary to crap crack, crap crack this top five. Because I think the only guys in this group to me that fit that bill at this point are, are, are Vic Ant and Cade.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I don't know that there's another guy in the group. I mean you could maybe argue yourself into Jalen Johnson. I'm not quite ready to get there. But Harper is somebody that I think has a high, high ceiling in terms of self creator.

[B]

Well, if we're, we're going to go to the second list, I, I have Harper there, so I have J Dub Harper, Chet Amen and Jalen Johnson.

[C]

We're close. We're, we're not. I had a couple that are off. I had, I had Mobley second and I had Jalen Johnson, J Dub Amin and I also had Dylan on the second team.

[A]

So I, I mean the Dylan question I would say are twofold. One, the three point shooting if and when it will come around and if that matters and I guess two, how does his version of attacking translate to running offense? Like how, how does he become not just a creator who's getting to the basket at will, but somebody who is manufacturing a coherent system around him and we, I think that he has the power to do that stuff in time. And I believe it. Do I believe it to the point where I'm willing to omit these other really good already more accomplished pros. Like this is where it gets tough, I think with guys like Dylan.

[B]

So who do you want to see on that second team?

[A]

Like, can you put him over Scotty Barnes?

[B]

Yes. And I did. I think.

[A]

I mean, can you put him over Alper and Shangoon?

[B]

It's much easier to project and hope than it is to nitpick someone who's had multiple years. Years of nitpicking.

[C]

I had Scotty just outside my top 15.

[B]

I don't think that's unreasonable.

[A]

I mean, like, we're gonna have to come down to brass tacks, and really good players are gonna be left out. Maybe it's Scotty Barnes, maybe it's not.

[B]

Dylan Harper just looks a step ahead of veteran NBA players in the way that he's able to craft his way to the rim.

[A]

He does.

[B]

It's unbelievable. And just to, like, work around them, to step through, he just has all of those nifty little footwork things that Kyle's been talking about for years. And then you add all the stuff on top that he could be. It's. God, it's just so goddamn attractive.

[C]

I'm just gonna say the shooting stuff is not horribly dissimilar from where Shay was when he came into league. Shay had a similar thing of just like we. This guy just manufactures paint touches at will. Will the shooting ever come around?

[A]

You're right.

[C]

I don't know. It is. It is a little stilted and weird. He had a couple in the cup game where I was just like, I don't think that's going in. And he's gonna have to win me over in that sense. But in every other year, like, he can pass the ball, too.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

It's good stuff.

[A]

I mean, I'm down for Dylan Harper on one of these teams. I think it's just a matter of if you're putting himself second or third.

[B]

Yeah. So I'll give you my third team. We can go from there. I have Shen, I have Scotty Barnes, I have Paulo, I have Stefan Castle, and I have Jalen Dern. So we're leaving out Edgecombe, we're leaving out Khan, and no Franz for you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Franz is my last. Last cut. And it was Castle vaulting in and Franz going out. I think when we started to focus more on prospects than hardcore, just production, I think that's what tipped it.

[A]

I think you would have to feel overwhelmingly positive about someone like VJ Edgecomb to justify it over these guys. So I'm. I'm like. I think Shangoon. I think. I feel like Barnes has to be here. Kyle, who do you. Who do you have third team to nudge out Scotty Barnes.

[C]

My third team is Shingoon, Durin, Castle Wagner and Con Canyeple Khan.

[A]

Khan will be a better player than Scotty.

[B]

So, yeah, Hollow and Scotty out.

[C]

Yeah. The Palo, the Paolo one is more I, I, I. The more I look at it, I'm just like the. As we were having that conversation, I'm just, like, optimized. I think you have to kind of take that grain of salt and consider it. So I could, I could, you know, tomorrow change my mind on that one, honestly. So.

[A]

All right, so can we agree on for third team Shangoon, Scotty Barnes, Dur and Paolo? Is that reasonable for four?

[B]

Why don't you give your team and then we'll all just all go our separate ways.

[A]

You want to come up with a consensus list?

[B]

I want to do my own. I want to stand by my my own convictions.

[A]

I'm going to go. Okay. So I haven't really rattled off mine at all. First team, Web and Yama Ant. I'm going to put Mobley, Chet and Cade. First team. Second team, Amen Thompson, J Dub Coop, Jalen Johnson. I'll put Dylan Harper there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Third team, Shangun, Barnes, Duran, Paolo. So the last spot is agonizing. I think the candidates are really Stefan Castle, Franz Wagner. I want to get there with Con Canyl, but I can't. You know, I've been on such a Stefan Castle high lately. I'm going to come ride with you. Justin.

[B]

Let's go. You see?

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Now.

[A]

Now the real allegiances come out.

[B]

I love Castle. You know, he has a big old, like, pendant, and it's just a castle. That's fucking sick.

[A]

That is pretty sick.

[C]

That is pretty awesome. Yeah.

[B]

You should get one of just like, men.

[C]

A man. What is that? It's just a man.

[B]

That's what I say about Rob.

[A]

I can't believe you don't want to do a collaborative list.

[B]

It just seems a little messy.

[C]

We're three front offices here. We don't need to.

[A]

We're pretty close.

[B]

We're one front office. But we're all giving our recommendation to the Ghost.

[A]

Yes. I guess in that case, first team, Keyshawn George.

[B]

I feel good about this. I like this exercise.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

It's the type of thing where you're like, you roll your eyes at it. At first it's like, oh, another ranking. But when you get in the weeds of it, you're like. You learn a lot about the league and, like, young teams and where teams are from. Doing this type of thing. So.

[A]

And as you said with trade season, which guys are worth building around, which guys are maybe ancillary to what you're doing? I think it's telling a lot about where a lot of these teams are in the grand scheme. Scheme of things. Yeah.

[B]

And if you listen to all two parts, power through what, four hours probably of this, make sure you email Rob and tell him that you did it.

[A]

I would love to hear about it. If you have takes for Justin about how he thought Chun Lee was a member of Mortal Kombat, I would love to hear.

[C]

I know that's going to be the takeaway.

[B]

She should have been.

[A]

I mean, you could put Chun Lee.

[C]

In any game, see her roundhouse, kick someone's head off, that'd be a good fatality for her. Yeah.

[B]

Before we go, we have to say thank you to our lovely producers who powered through multiple hours of this with us, Victoria Valencia, who's here with us in studio, Isaiah Blakely on the dials and Ben Cruz, who put together a lot of this information for us. So thank you very much for going on this ride with us first teamers.

[A]

All three, Absolutely no doubt, unanimous first ballot.

[B]

Absolutely. We'll be back on Sunday as per usual. We'll talk to you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-IT-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.