← The Ringer WNBA Show
The Ringer WNBA Show
The Return of the Comets, and a Sweet 16 and Elite Eight Recap With Sabreena Merchant
01:08:57
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- [00:01]
Logan Murdoch
What's poppin everybody? It's Logan Murdoch here from the ringer. The 2025, 2026 NBA season is here and we got your hoop podcast needs covered on the Ringer NBA show. Be sure to check out group chat with Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney and Jake Kyle Mann on Sundays and Wednesdays and real ones on Tuesdays and Fridays with myself, Raja Bell and Howard Beck. Get your Ringer related NBA podcast fix on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And of course come find us on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram and tick tock at the handle ring NBA.
- [00:53]
Stefan Anderson
Praise the Lord and Hook em Horn. Sarah Graves gets a U bet. Texans head back to the Final four alongside everybody else from last year's group. They'll be playing UCLA. South Carolina plays UConn on the other side. And we are as blessed as this Texas program because we've got the goat of women's basketball podcasting. Sabrina Merchant of the athletic year. How's it going, Sabrina?
- [01:17]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm doing so much better after that intro. I've got to tell you. Feeling the love feel good.
- [01:22]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah. You feeling the blessings? Feeling the blessings all the time. You're feeling the universe, the universal source. The universal source. The muses are going to come down and bless us on this podcast.
- [01:33]
Sabrina Merchant
The basketball gods are. Yeah, that's for sure.
- [01:35]
Stefan Anderson
The basketball gods are absolutely. I'm very excited. So we're going to break down the Elite eight with a few segments that I'll explain as they come along. We are going to talk a little bit of the sun Sale. But before we do that, we're going to break down some recent news. Just going to really quickly hit this. The Olympic training camp squad for April 1st to April 3rd has been announced. Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese are both not on it. I just, I think everybody just let's take a breath. Let's take a breath. Let's. To be fair, it is A.
- [02:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Before YouTube starts training camp roster.
- [02:14]
Stefan Anderson
I know.
- [02:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Training camp roster. I feel like that would be a much bigger deal if we were five months out from the Olympics and they weren't on a training camp roster. I think that'd be a much bigger deal.
- [02:23]
Stefan Anderson
I completely agree with you. But there are people in this universe that, you know, we pray to, muses and other people, praise to the algorithm. Now we're all somewhat beholden to the algorithm. So this feels, this camp feels like an opportunity for the people who have not been able to participate in past training camps and the qualifiers. You have Sabrina Unescu, Nafisa Collier, though she will not be playing. She is still rehabbing her ankle injury. Asia Wilson and also giving players who might be on the bubble for 20, 26 and 28 a chance to kind of prove themselves. You've got Cambrink, Kayla Thornton, Brittany Sykes, Veronica Burtons. I think the headline for me is Mikayla Blake's pretty cool. Yeah. Nation's leading scorer. She's going to be at training camp alongside Juju who's going to be playing limited, basically limited contact. Was anything stuck out to you? I feel like the one thing that stuck out to me is just the amount of role players that are on this roster. Maybe it's just a matter of them needing stand ins. Or do you think that the Raya Burrells, Azari Stevens, Mo Billings, Steph Dolson, one of those players. Could they. Is it like a search for balance amongst, you know, stars? We've seen kind of especially on the men's side, previous USA teams not always maybe like be over, you know, have too many stars and maybe not enough of the players doing the dirty work.
- [03:45]
Sabrina Merchant
A couple things stand out. Happy to see Asia back. I'm always surprised when she's not at a USA camp because she is far and away the best player in the world and the best player on Team USA and has an inconsistent relationship with USA Basketball camp. So happy to see her back, you know, five months out from the World cup because obviously she needs to start building chemistry with all these players who will be part of the pool, the World Cup. I think there is an opportunity to have less famous players than during the Olympics. Like there's less of an outcry over who's going to make this roster than who will be on the 2028 LA Olympics team. I think that's just how basketball fans are, you know, wired. The Olympics are just a far bigger deal than the World Cup. I but even big WNBA fans are not entirely sure who was on the last World cup team in 2022. So I think the role players stepping in, it's not just to fill bodies. I think they might actually be looking for players. I am kind of surprised by like the older role players on this roster like the Brittany Sykes, Steph Dalson, Azrae Stevens trio like Veronica Burton a little bit younger, Ray Barrella a little bit younger. Like you could see them growing into roles in this program but that, you know, it's cool that like and Kayla Thornton I think fits in on that list too of the older role players. Like it'd be interesting to see if one of them made the World Cup. You know, I was just having this conversation with one of my podcast co hosts, Alicia Clarington, who specifically said, like, I'm the type of player who could play on a World cup team. I could never play on the Olympics because I am not famous enough. So I look at this roster and I see like the players who would not be in consideration for la, But September in the middle of a WNBA season, when maybe some players who you've had this conversation on your show don't necessarily want to take a break from their WNBA teams, that's how you sort of have to expand the pool. And I think the expansion of the pool is really the most important thing because we're at three camps, 29 different players in these camps so far. So that's a lot of players who Sigurd is potentially considering. Not Hannah Hidalgo, which kind of surprised me.
- [05:40]
Stefan Anderson
That was interesting to me as well. And maybe it's just a matter of Neil Ivy. She just finished. Yeah, exactly, exactly. No, it's true. And yeah, Neil Ivey is coaching, so Ishay Ralph on the coaching roster for the first time too. I also wonder on the coaching side if they are also kind of just trying to bring as many people on for future USA rosters as well. Right. Like I was watching the Pat Summit documentary and one thing that she said that stood out is that, you know, you don't necessarily want to do this over and over again. It's an honor that a lot of coaches should get to have. This time it's Carol Lawson's turn. Maybe in the future it's a Natalie Nikasi or Nate Tibbets going like playing in small ball lineups and stuff too. I do think that also the coaching pipeline for USA just needs some development. So I'm glad to see that. That's a good point about. It's almost like they are potentially looking for some insurance here. Right. Like you can pencil in an Angel Reese right now. Let's say in September they're a nine seed and they're just fighting to get into the playoffs at that point. Then are you kind of thinking, oh my. Like, is Angel Reese like, kind of thinking differently about. About like a World cup thing? And I know that the season does pause at that time, but it's obviously very taxing. Right. Paige Becker. Speaking of taxing, Paige Becker's played so much basketball this year, she went straight from UConn title to playing the regular season to playing unrivaled, was a part of all of these training camps, played Feba looked kind of tired at unrivaled. And now she's also a part of this training camp as well. That also kind of stood out to me a little bit as far as I kind of felt like she. I don't know if you're a page, you can probably. Probably allowed to sit this one out if you want.
- [07:25]
Sabrina Merchant
She's the only one who's been part of all three since Carol Lawson took over. And it's funny you mentioned that. She's played a lot of basketball. Like, you think about what rookies had to do before this explosion of money coming into college in the wnba. Like, they would go straight from their W season, like three days later to Europe or Asia. So Paige playing a lot of basketball is nothing compared to what other people had to do, like five years ago.
- [07:48]
Stefan Anderson
Very true. And getting a lot more money for it as well at the same time. So the point is well taken. All right. The other thing I wanted to hit on WNBA wise, is the league is potentially going to be back in Houston. A $300 million sale to Houston Rockets owner Tillman Fertitta has been kind of in the ether for a long time. It's looking very official right now with a 2027 relocation of the Connecticut Sun. And it's interesting, I think, that in a vacuum, this is obviously very cool for the Comets. One of the original franchises of the WNBA is getting a team back. You know, the first dynasty of the league. They won four titles in four years. One of four domestic teams to win four straight titles alongside the Celtics, the Canadians, the Yankees and the New York Islanders. And they also have. They're tied for the most titles in WNBA franchise history as well. You know, they've had legends like Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Swoopes, Tina Thompson. Like, this was really the birthplace of basketball, of WNBA basketball. Although I will say the one thing that's very funny about it is that their most YouTube moment is probably a
- [09:03]
Sabrina Merchant
little Teresa Weathers true shot.
- [09:04]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
- [09:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I mean, I became a WNBA fan because of the Houston Comets. Like, I wrote a book report in elementary school on Cynthia Cooper's autobiography. It was one of those fancy little things you put on a cereal box and like, all around. Yeah, very into the Houston comments. They were what got the WNBA interesting, in my opinion, because they were so good, they were so dominant. And I have a lot of questions about the history of whose history the Connecticut sun absorbed and whose history the Houston Comets absorb. I think we had something similar in the NBA, where the New Orleans Hornets or the Charlotte Hornets moved to New Orleans and then they became the Pelicans, and then the Bobcats absorbed the Hornets. I gotta dig into how that's all gonna work, because I You don't want the history of the Connecticut sun to go away. And like, if you're Sinai Rivers and all of a sudden you're playing on Houston comments in 2027, does, like, that mean you played for a different franchise in 2026 and 2025? I don't really know, but that's something for the bookkeepers to keep a track of. But objectively, I think it's great that Houston is getting a team back because people loved the Comets there and it's not the same ownership group that folded in 2008, 2009. Like, I feel like it's an important disclaimer. All of these cities that are getting teams back like they were different owners who gave up on the wnba, so they shouldn't be held responsible for in a different financial climate. I get that. And it just sucked that a team that was so synonymous with the start of the WNBA and who has arguably the greatest players of all time on their team no longer has the franchise. So I think it's awesome that Houston's back the way it got there. Super shady. And I don't love it. And I feel very badly for fans of the Connecticut sun, less badly than I would if they didn't exist in the same ecosystem as the UConn Huskies because they got enough good basketball going on. But it always sucks to lose your team. And the way that it happened when there were offers to try to keep the team in Connecticut or in the Northeast area is a tough look. And, you know, I'm never rooting for relocation unless something very terrible happens. And I can't say that anything really terrible happened here other than the fact that it was just an ownership group that doesn't necessarily have the money to compete in this new era of the wnba.
- [11:10]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, before we get into that, do you still have this book report? How old were you, Cynthia Cooper, your favorite player?
- [11:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Don't have the book report? Actually, it was in my basement when it flooded many years ago. Cynthia Cooper was my favorite player, but recent allegations against her have sort of clouded my original opinion of Cynthia Cooper. My colleague Chantelle Jennings wrote about this at the Athletic a little while back. I've told her she ruined a lot of my childhood heroes, but it's, you know, her job as an investigative reporter. So I think her WNBA career is still very impressive. Four titles in four years, especially starting at the age that she Did. Yeah, I
- [11:53]
Stefan Anderson
was not aware of all of that. I just quickly did a Google search. All right, I'm just going to blow really quickly past that right now. Okay. Okay. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I think I need a moment to regroup here. But.
- [12:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [12:14]
Stefan Anderson
To your point, though, I think that a lot of the history that we're thinking about with the sun is this is kind of what happened with Houston. Right? Like now. Maybe not. Maybe not, Cynthia. But one thing I was thinking is that, you know, it'd be really cool if Cheryl Swoopes and Tina Thompson and specifically Kim Perrott had their jerseys retired in the first year of the Houston Comets inaugural season. Right. Like, I think that would be a really cool way to honor the team and also possibly like, kind of create a little bit more goodwill what's around the sale as well. Like, I was, I mean, I was looking at. So I've been going through Court Queens, the book by Emma Bachelary, who was on the pod last week, and Jordan Robinson. And there's this moment about the Teresa Weatherspoon shot where confetti was actually starting to already fall in the 99 finals before she took the shot and it went in, which feels like the yellow ropes moment. It's the original. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, there's some like, it just kind of sent me down this wormhole and I did not know about this. I'm sure you obviously knew about this, but I think like a lot of the, like the fans that listen to this probably don't know about this, but that 99 Rockets team, Comets. Oh my gosh, the 99 Comets team, that's going to take me a second to get this to. They had a player named Kim Perrot who was the point guard of the team. She has this, had this amazing story where at the time the league actually had tryouts in its earlier years. She was a local unknown, like 5 foot 5, 132 pounds of just sinewy muscle, grew up practicing on rims made of tires, walked onto a trio at a high school in Houston and became the glue and the unselfish leader of this Houston Comets dynasty. And unfortunately, in 99, she was diagnosed with cancer. And through the course of that season, she lost a six month battle to cancer. And when they won the title, I can't remember who it was, but one of the players, I think it was Swoops, got onto the scorers table and tearfully raised her jersey into the air. They all said they won it for Kim. There's these amazing videos if you go back and watch of. Of just all of them talking about her and how important she was, and I think that she's somebody whose history, certainly I didn't know about it, got lost in the shuffle of a franchise like the Houston Comets getting contracted. And now there's an opportunity to honor her, to honor so much more history that I imagine is not really talked about. And then on the other side, there's also sort of like, this responsibility, if this sun sale is going to go down, to make sure that, you know, it's a different era for the WNBA as well. Like, you do have so much more coverage on it, but to just make sure that, you know, it's commemorated somehow as well.
- [15:20]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think the Connecticut sun are a really important part of WNBA history because they were the first independent ownership group in the wnba. When the Orlando Miracle contracted, when the NBA stopped owning all the teams, like, a lot of teams just folded right away. And the Mohican Tribe bought the Miracle, took him to Connecticut, started this franchise, and, like, if that isn't a success in Connecticut, and you can quibble with the word success, like, that was one of the premier franchises in wnba. Even if they didn't win a title, they were consistently successful. People wanted to go play there. It was a good fan base, a good atmosphere, and they were just very good. Just could never quite get over the hump. And it's just a little. It's frustrating that, like, that team that did so well for so long is probably going to leave Connecticut without ever winning a title. Right? Like, nothing is official. They could technically win a title in 2026. Spoiler alert. They're not going to win a title in 2026. But it's. It's too bad that, like, that's going to be one of the elements of their legacies that they didn't win. Because, like, if you don't have independent ownership in Connecticut, you don't get Seattle, you don't get Las Vegas, you don't get, you know, Dallas and Chicago, for better or worse. But, like, this was the model that hadn't existed in the WNBA before, and it's kind of going to become a relic like the Connecticut sun, because all of these ownership groups are now going to be tied to the NBA, and there's just, like, a limited number. So I think it's. It's a very. Just weird way to close the book on an era because on the one hand, like, obviously, the WNBA is going through this financial. Massive financial transformation, and it's awesome for the players and the growth of the league. But it is just, you know, pricing out some people, some markets. And it's too bad that, like a team coming to Houston and like the celebration of a great expansion team like I spent. I shouldn't say expansion team, great, like original team that started the wnba. Like, I spent so much time in Sacramento this week, and the love that everybody still has it for the Monarchs is really cool, but I just wish it didn't have to come at the expense of somebody else.
- [17:16]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I mean, is it really even about being priced out? Is it really even about money? Because you had a former Milwaukee Bucks owner in Mark Lasry that was willing to move the team to just 45 minutes away in Hartford, Connecticut made a $325 million offer alongside Steve Pagluca, who also made a $325 million offer. The sun are selling for less than that. They're selling for $300 million. So, you know, you can. The CBA just, you know, just wrapped up and everybody's talking about like the league is talking about the importance of sustainability. They just left $25 million on the floor. So it's not really about money all the time. It's about.
- [17:52]
Sabrina Merchant
I would say the part that's about money is that the sun felt compelled to sell to begin with. Right. That like they init.
- [17:59]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, no, that's a good point. That's definitely true. That's definitely true. But if you're the son, I do wonder, how are you eventually convinced into accepting this deal that is for less money? I think that there are certainly because of Lazari's involvement, there are definitely some antitrust implications as well. You might not win a title, maybe you win a lawsuit. If it does go into that realm, I'm not sure if it will, but I mean, there are legislators in Connecticut that seem very concerned about what's happening. Senator Richard Blumenthal, he, all the way back in 2025, wrote a letter demanding the WNBA stay out of the Sun's negotiations. When the sale was reported this weekend, he tweeted out the WNBA put a full court press on blocking the sun from staying in Connecticut. Deeply harmful to fans that live and breathe basketball. DOJ should investigate and stop such an anti competitive interference. It's also worth noting that he sits on the subcommittee on Antitrust Litigation. I can't remember the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights. I reached out to. So the senator can't actually file an antitrust complaint. The DOJ can The sun can. And so can an attorney general. So I reached out to the Attorney General of Connecticut, William Tong in his office, sent back a statement basically saying that they are aware of concerning reports regarding a sale and that it was at a price far less than what was on the table to keep them here at home. They've requested relevant documents, and they're consulting with partners and state government and local leaders regarding this disappointing news. Now, I don't know if that's lip service. I don't know if it's serious. I really couldn't tell you. But it's. I don't know. It's not. It's. It's certainly not. I'm curious, like, what do you. What do you. What do you make of. Of all of this?
- [20:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, I don't think the WNBA would go through a sale like this if they thought that they would face illegal backlash. That just seems like such a bad idea when you have other options on the table.
- [20:19]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, right.
- [20:20]
Sabrina Merchant
Like when you have, like, you mentioned the Pagliuca bid and the Mark Lasry bid that would keep the team in the Northeast, if not expressly in Connecticut. So my gut is that the WNBA has vetted, you know, the potential challenges that could come through this. At the very least, the NBA has vetted the potential challenges that could come through this because it is involving an NBA ownership group. So I. I don't expect that Connecticut is going to get, like, the right to keep the team or at the very least, maybe they'll get some damages. I don't really know. But, yeah, it could get done. It seems like this is going through.
- [20:51]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, that's kind of my feeling on it, just because of what you said. Like, I think somebody's got friends in high places, whether that's, you know, NBA, whether it's. I mean, Tillman Fertitta is the US Ambassador to Italy. So there's that or whatever that sort of thing. This is.
- [21:05]
Sabrina Merchant
This is.
- [21:06]
Stefan Anderson
He's, you know, he's tight with certain people, and this is not a doj. That is. We're not getting the Lina Khan versus the wnba. That is not the Final Four matchup that we're getting. I think if that was. If that was the matchup, I think we might be having a different conversation here. But. But. But it is not. And I don't know what it is. I don't know, maybe it's some sort of, like, guarantee from, like, maybe the Mexican son don't want to. Like, maybe they just want to, hey, you know, like, we're Done. We'll take the $25 million. L. Let's keep it moving. You know, like, there could be a lot of different reasons not to get into it. I just. As a reporter and as somebody who's nosy, anytime this stuff goes to trial or there's litigation, there are just. They're documents, and I like documents. All right, is there anything else you want to say on that before we move on to the Elite Eight and some March Madness talk? Let's talk some basketball. Let's talk some basketball. I feel like we got it. We have to start with UConn Notre Dame, which was maybe the game of, like, I think this is a game that had a lot of juice behind it. Right. And there was a moment where it looked like it could have been a game, but I feel like UConn kind of just wore Notre Dame out. And I think the thing that really stood out to me was Hannah Hidalgo. She kind of. The way. How do I put this? Hannah Hidalgo reduces the places on the court that you can actually be productive with your offense, and UConn has enough depth and versatility that they could still productively work within those confines. It was really interesting, especially watching that first quarter, and they kind of did what teams used to do to Kawhi Leonard, where whoever she was guarding was as far away from the play as possible. If she was guarding KK Arnold or Ashlyn Shade, they were on the weak side and they were going to. And UConn was going to run their offense on the other side of the court. The few moments that they kind of forgot about that, like, there was a play where I think Sarah Strong went middle on a spin move, and Hannah was right there. Hidalgo was really able to make an impact. She stole that one. There were a couple others, but for the most part, I think this UConn team, they just have so much depth, they have so much versatility. They were able to make it difficult for Hannah on offense as well. You know, KK Arnold guarding her. If KK was taking the ball up, they gave it to Shade, they gave it to az, they gave it to Strong. Ultimately, there weren't enough Hannah Hidalgos on the floor to actually stymie UConn's offense. And on the other end, they just had so many bodies to throw at her.
- [23:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think the depth is really the main issue here for Notre Dame. Credit to them for turning their season around, getting to the elite eight, you know, with a seven player rotation, essentially, and it was six for a long time. When K.K. bransford was out. They just. They looked like a dramatically different team than the first time they played UConn. They looked like they actually belonged on the court with them. And admittedly, it's different playing in stores versus Fort Worth, but, yeah, you just. You need, like, Ayanna Moore to hit some threes. You need Vanessa to Jesus to. To hit some threes. Like, you need Cass Prosper to do something beyond those four points. Like, it's. There was nothing really behind Hannah, and Even, like, shooting 7 of 19, I feel like she did enough offensively to keep her team in was just. There's nothing beyond that. And the cavalry is coming for Notre Dame. Like, I think they're gonna have to do some work in the portal, but they have a great recruiting class coming in. Just. Just not enough depth this year. And it. Like, I'm. I'm amazed they got this far. Like, I thought their game against Vanderbilt was one of the more impressive performances of the tournament to date. But, yeah, when you play UConn, you just. You need more, and they didn't have it.
- [24:55]
Stefan Anderson
You do. I thought it was interesting. Hannah looked a little pensive in the first half of the game. I think that KK was doing a pretty good job of just staying lateral with her, but I don't think. I don't feel like Hannah really challenged UConn at the rim until the second half. And she came. I think that was maybe an adjustment because she came out and she got to the line a couple times, and I was. I kind of like. I wonder if that was. I feel like she was trying to get her teammates involved in the first quarter. I feel. I feel like they came into the game and they were like, look, one person cannot beat UConn. But you're right, her teammates just had off shooting nights.
- [25:30]
Sabrina Merchant
Six for more, I think.
- [25:33]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Just didn't have it.
- [25:35]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, did not have it. Did not have it. And you gotta have it against UConn. It's just what. It's part of what makes him so difficult to beat. And then I think there was also, like, I don't think this game came down to refereeing at all. But you mentioned Cass Prosper. I think that there was a play starting the fourth quarter where Sarah Strong was not called for a pretty obvious foul. Then she goes down and gets a foul on Cass Prosper, which becomes her fourth foul. And it was just like, oh, like, at that moment, I was like, this. Just. Whatever effort Notre Dame has made to just hang on and allow this to be a game it was like watching somebody at the edge of a cliff and then the refs just stomped on their fingers. It's like, nope, you're falling now. But yeah, I mean, I think that it was. I actually want to. It got me thinking. So I was at a USC game, USC UConn game in December, and I asked you, Geno, what's kind of different now that you have this team that has so much more depth? It's such a different UConn team. Right. Like, they've dealt with so many injuries in the past where, like, they weren't able to do things like this. You couldn't full court press Hannah Hidalgo and keep the ball out of her hands and then throw KK Arnold and Ashlin Shade at her. You couldn't trap her all game. Like, there were so many things that, like, just from a pure energy exertion standpoint, they couldn't do. And it reminded me of. Of me asking that question. So we're going to play that for you guys right now, players, because we
- [27:02]
Geno Auriemma
play full court and we picked up full court. Yeah. And so recently somebody showed me box s that game and I saw like 11 players played a lot. Yeah. And three of the players we had coming off the bench were Shay Ralph, who was, you know, MVP of the Final Four, Asia Jones, who's an Olympian, and Tamika Williams, who one of the best players. Those, in addition to a couple other guys that first round traffics, you know, those guys were coming off the bench. So it was. It was fun. You know, we just kind of roll people out there, you know. And then over the years, you know, with. Especially the last five years, I forgot what that was like. You know, we couldn't practice hard. You know, we were worried that, you know, who's the next kid that's going to get hurt. We can't press, can't play fast, you know, and I didn't have to sell, so all the players love me. They never came out of the game. You know, the guys on the bench couldn't about not playing. They're. They're all injured, you know, so it was. It was kind of like fun. I was starting to enjoy that. And the players loved it because every mistake they made, they knew they weren't coming out. Now, you know, somebody throws a big pass and they look over at me like, you know, back then, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff was happening. But. And I would tell them at practice, too. I said, listen, you guys have me over the barrel. I mean, I didn't quite say it like that. But you guys, you know, have me, and you could, like, really take advantage of this if you're not coming out and you're gonna play 40 minutes. But they were in unbelievable shape, and when we got to the final four, they were better shaped than anybody. Now all of a sudden, you go, this year we got 15 guys on the team. Luckily, two of them are out, right? Luckily two of them around. So you have five guys in the game, and then you think things are going well, and you look down the bench and there's five guys going. I guess, you know, they're all looking over at you. You're like, all right, let me figure out a way to get these guys in. And then after you do, you got four more guys going. How about me? You know, so there's a benefit to it because we can play a certain way, but it's a challenge getting all the players the minutes that they want and that they need, you know, so hopefully we can manage that, that balance. But I'm out of practice when it comes to subbing. My assistants are really good at, you know, hey, get her out. She's tired. I'm like, so what? But now we have options, you know,
- [29:22]
Stefan Anderson
but yeah, I think this is part of what makes UConn so difficult to beat. Like, they can play big, they can play small. Blanca Quinones has a career high. Jaina El Alfie comes into the game. You can play strong at the five. Like, you have this full court press. You can go Arnold, Blanca strong, Az and Shade on at the same time. And I think I look ahead, going to the tournament, I'm like, they can play Texas game. Like, they can play big, they can full court press, they can offensive rebound, they can pressure the ball, they can play UCLA's game. We saw them do it last year, especially if you're going to have ll be playing. And then, you know, you can also play South Carolina's game, too. Whether they go big with Okot or small with Makir, you know, it's just kind of like they are the team that has the answers to every test.
- [30:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, that's what was, you know, the interesting part of their down period, you know, where they were making final fours but not winning championships. It was just. They didn't have that depth. They were running on really thin rotations. You know, Paige's third year, it's like they had seven players they could count on and, like, six of them were guards. It was a lot of Aaliyah Edwards, you know, so I think, like, when you build A better roster. Like these things just naturally happen. I feel like it's not rocket science at some point. Like they just. They have healthy players and it's been really good for them.
- [30:36]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. It helps to be healthy at the end of the year. I love that Shay Ralph just historically just keeps coming up on this podcast. Like, to, like, I think I've. I think there's been some reference to Shay Ralph as a player in the last three podcasts. So. I don't know. Shout out to her.
- [30:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Very impressive career she had.
- [30:53]
Stefan Anderson
Very impressive. Oh my gosh. Like she was going to go be a WNBA star. Like she was. I think Sue Bird had to walk into those. Those shoes. She's pivoted quite nicely, though. She has, she has, she has. I mean, where would, where would we be right now if not for Shea
- [31:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Ralph become Caleb Blake would not be at USA Camp, I can tell you that.
- [31:12]
Stefan Anderson
No, she would.
- [31:13]
Sabrina Merchant
She.
- [31:13]
Stefan Anderson
I mean, she might be still at USA Camp. Yeah. What if. What if, like the sliding doors moment there is that Michaela Blake's like commits to Tennessee instead because she plays the exact style that Kim Caldwell wants and we're like not having these conversations about Kim Caldwell.
- [31:29]
Sabrina Merchant
You keep saying that there's no way Michaela Blakes is willingly playing 22 minutes again. It's just not happening.
- [31:34]
Stefan Anderson
That's a good point. That's a good point. That's. You have to. You would have to bench. You'd have to get to like that 32 mark. But as far as the playing with speed, steals, like firing off every three pointer the second that it's open. Like, I kind of. I see, I see that part of it. But your point is well taken. I have to. I get off the Kim Caldwell train at some point. I guess it's the one thing that everybody's like, I don't know, dude. All right, okay, well, let's, let's do our. I'm leaving here with some awards for the player that lost but left impression. I'm going to go with Hannah Hidalgo. There was a moment this weekend where it really felt like she was the main character of the tournament. Friday night Sweet 16 win over Vanderbilt. I was simply stunned. Like 31 points, 11 rebounds, 10 steals, a triple double with steals. How often do you see that? Even against Yukon, a couple buckets that turned. There was the one that stunned Ashlyn Shade. Like Geno stomping around. You can feel the blood feud there, like being reignited. But I think that I was just so Taken by her ability to just captivate us. I think that she has some things that are in common almost with a player like Caitlin in that she flies in the face of basketball convention in a way that kind of forces you to readjust your eyes. And then you start watching her, and you're like, wait, what is she actually doing here? That's making every coach in the country reassess what they think to be true about basketball and changing the geometry of the game and where we play. Somebody in my mentions said that she has a wemby, like, impact from the point guard position and being, like, five' four or five' six or however tall she is. And I thought that that was such an interesting way to look at it because we have heard of her as, like, is she the defensive player of the year? I definitely understand that argument because I, frankly have never seen anybody in basketball have this level of impact on the defensive end and be as electric as they are as Hannah Hidalgo did through the course of this tournament.
- [33:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, I have usually held the position that players of her size are just not big enough to succeed at the next level, but she just regularly puts up performances that fly in the face of that wisdom. So it definitely challenges a lot of those assumptions.
- [34:00]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, she's. There's a lot of rules she breaks. Right. Like, there's, like, the. I mean, literally how she plays.
- [34:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm sure it's got to be, like, an adjustment when you go to Notre Dame, and it's like, all right, well, Hannah's going to freelance a little bit, so let's make sure we have the right defensive principles behind her.
- [34:15]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, I think that that's part of the way that this year's Notre Dame team was built. I think that they wanted to, like, really be able to accentuate her strengths and minimize her weaknesses. Like, they do kind of play a scheme that protects her a little bit more than last year's Notre Dame team did. Good.
- [34:31]
Sabrina Merchant
I think Cass's versatility helps a lot with that, but, I mean, I don't want to diminish last year's Notre Dame team. It was awesome. Sony was awesome. Bigs were awesome. Liv and, you know, Hidalgo were awesome. I am perpetually disappointed that the NCAA tournament denied us an option to see Hannah Hidalgo play against Olivia Miles. It. I keep bringing it up. I'm sorry. It just still makes me mad. And, you know.
- [34:52]
Stefan Anderson
No, it's absolutely true. And it was so natural. Like, Notre Dame was another six and TCU was a three. Like, come on, guys. Like, it's right there.
- [35:00]
Sabrina Merchant
You can Olivia home court. You know, no one's gonna mind.
- [35:04]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, no, it was right there. I complete. I completely agree with you. I will say though, I feel like they both kind of won the breakup. Like the fact that neither of them had been to the.
- [35:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Olivia, where is it? Where is the fun with everybody winning? Okay,
- [35:19]
Stefan Anderson
okay. You're like, no, there had like. I would have liked to see it happen. I would have liked. Because they're both like. Olivia Miles also now has a team that's built in her image as well. Like she is on this spread floor TCU team that just lost to South Carolina that also like put her in a position of running, picking roles all the time. That's what she wanted. She wanted to expand her offensive game. She also, you know, maybe in some ways that were a bit of a subtweet to Notre Dame, wanted to get her joy back as well. And it seems that she did.
- [35:54]
Sabrina Merchant
I watched a lot of Notre Dame last year. She had so much joy at the start of the season. I don't know.
- [35:59]
Stefan Anderson
She really did.
- [36:00]
Sabrina Merchant
She really.
- [36:01]
Stefan Anderson
Something weird happened that noted. I still can't explain it to myself because it's like they just stopped playing games.
- [36:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Which is why we needed the resolution.
- [36:07]
Stefan Anderson
We did. We needed, we needed. Man, we needed the documentary on that team. I want to know what happened at the end of the year.
- [36:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Press on that. No, the problem is there was the polar press. It didn't even cover that
- [36:20]
Stefan Anderson
team player approved documentary. Although I did like the UCLA one that just came out on Fox. I like that one.
- [36:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Did you watch that one? I haven't seen it yet. Okay.
- [36:30]
Stefan Anderson
All right. What's your leaving here with something?
- [36:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, at the risk of being a full on homer, Ashlyn Jackson, you know the three pointer that she hit to beat lsu, which why we need a three in that situation. Not going to question that. But used basically all of her basketball karma on that one shot because she did not score in the Elite Eight matchup against ucla. But hey, if you're going to use up all your basketball karma, at least make it a super cool shot like that that turns around on the rim a couple times before it drops in. When you've got the most famous alum in the history of your program, Chelsea Gray in the stands just ready to go berserk. Just, just an awesome moment. I, I love Ashlyn Jackson's game so much, even though the stats do not bear it out. And it's just a joy watching her play with a big smile on her face and to have that moment. Super cool to be able to take down LSU and like, get to part two of the revenge tour that they couldn't quite finish against ucla. Very cool moment. Um, yeah, and I think just like the symbolism of her making the shot while flage just like kind of overran. It's just an interesting look at LSU that we can get into later. But yeah, I think Duke, you know, had was kind of just like out of the mix in the women's basketball world for a while. At the end of the McAllister years after Elizabeth Williams left, their recruiting really fell off. And to get to back to back elite eights, you know, just solidifies, you know, your program in a sense that they, I think they needed. So, yeah, kudos to Ashlyn Jackson, who somehow made the most memorable shot of the tournament and was not even on an all regional team because of how bad the next game was.
- [38:07]
Stefan Anderson
I also love seeing Carol Lawson fired. Where are you at on Ashlyn Jackson as a WNBA player?
- [38:14]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, she's got the physical tools and yet doesn't make a lot of threes. Doesn't shoot that well from the free throw line, you know. Is she a point guard? Probably not, but, like, got to shoot better if you're a shooting guard. So I would bring her to a camp and just see what I'm missing. That's really where I'm at.
- [38:32]
Stefan Anderson
I think that shot might have earned her a training, camping fight. She might be like this Sarah Ashley Barker of this year's tournament.
- [38:40]
Sabrina Merchant
I like that.
- [38:41]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see what happens. What a week to be a Duke fan. Oh, I'm not sure if people. So really, really. We don't.
- [38:49]
Sabrina Merchant
We don't acknowledge men's basketball.
- [38:50]
Stefan Anderson
Okay.
- [38:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Not a thing.
- [38:51]
Stefan Anderson
So they actually. Yeah. So, like, it's really. I think this is like, speaking of
- [38:55]
Sabrina Merchant
using all of the basketball karma that Ashley Jackson.
- [38:59]
Stefan Anderson
Well, there was basketball karma from last year, too. She missed the three. She missed a potential game tying three against South Carolina in the elite Eight last year. But yeah, it's really cute. I don't know if you guys know this. So Duke and UConn, their men's side also has a basketball program and they played each other. And I just. I don't know, I think that that was a great moment for the sport as much as it was not a good moment for you, Sabrina, to, you know, witness the turnover turned into a logo shot. I just think it's great for the growth of the men's game. So shout out to them.
- [39:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Shout out to Them. Braylon Mullins. What a moment.
- [39:41]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, awesome stuff. All right, so we're talking about the shadow of. So I feel like we might as well get into it. Our next segment is the wedgie, which is the thing that is clearly bothering you that no one's really talking about, no one's really acknowledging, but it's obviously making you uncomfortable. It's making us all uncomfortable, and it might be best to just acknowledge it. What's yours, Sabrina?
- [40:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, it's, you know, it's actually kind of useful that you brought up that Duke Yukon shot, because one thing I noticed in the aftermath of that shot is that Kaden Boozer took every single question that was asked of him in the post game. He was said, I ruined our season. Ruined it. My brother took like, took it in the chest. Did all the media he was required to do, you know, he did not answer every question that was asked of her in the post game session was Flage Johnson, where LSU specifically said, we're not doing questions about her relationship with Kim Mulkey at this time. And I just think it's interesting when you are a sport that is asking to be covered the same way as the men, that you don't do your job the same way that the men do. Because you can't tell me that Flage Johnson's situation of, like, just overrunning Ashland Jackson and losing in the Sweet 16 is comparable to what happened to Kaden Boozer. It's a very different situation. So I just think that the women's basketball game wants to grow like the men's. Did you know what a great moment they had? You just got to be willing to take it in the chin and answer these questions and, you know, suck it up in these moments.
- [41:22]
Stefan Anderson
Wait, I did not realize that she was not answering those questions.
- [41:25]
Sabrina Merchant
First of all, she was not brought up to the podium, which, like, you're the senior at lsu. How are you not coming up to the podium at your last college basketball game? So, hey, you're in the locker room. Take the questions there. Did not take all the questions there.
- [41:38]
Stefan Anderson
I will say, I mean, to lose in that way as much we talk, like, for Duke, it's magical, right? The ball goes around the rim multiple times. It's this Hollywood ending. If I was Flaje Johnson and Ashland Jackson, who plays for Kara Lawson and Duke, hit this shot over me going around the rim multiple times, like twisting like a knife, that would turn me into the joker. I would simply become the Joker. Like, I just don't know what I'm
- [42:09]
Sabrina Merchant
at least you have the one title to hold on to.
- [42:11]
Stefan Anderson
You know, it's true, it's true.
- [42:14]
Sabrina Merchant
They can never take that one away from you.
- [42:15]
Stefan Anderson
Of her relationship with Kim Mulkey right
- [42:17]
Sabrina Merchant
now, I mean, so I asked Kim about just the experience of having coached Flage and what she'd meant to the program, and she said the exact same thing she said at the very start of the season. She's like, oh, I've already answered this question. I get that. But six months have transpired since the last time you answered this question. Has nothing evolved in your relationship? Does Flaushi mean nothing more to you since then? I thought it was very strange.
- [42:43]
Stefan Anderson
Also, dare I say a crazy response to a question about your senior. Who was your, your first, like, star that was like, graduating.
- [42:58]
Sabrina Merchant
I just think you don't have to say, like, refer to my previous email. You know, like, I, I don't understand why that was the, the vibe there. Flash obviously did not take questions about her relationship with Kim Mulkey. LSU is very much. Their talent is more than some of its parts, right? Like, it's the opposite. Like, Michaela Williams is excellent. Malaysia Paweile is excellent. Blaje is excellent. And yet collectively, their games don't accentuate each other's. They don't amplify each other's. And I'm pretty sure that within the three of them, some of them don't like each other. I can't figure out which ones don't like each other. But yeah, this is definitely a team that did not live up to expectations, even though they had quite a bit of talent. And I do wonder, like, where LSU goes from here. Obviously, like Kayla and Mylesha coming back. But Flaje is a big loss. They still don't really have that front court situation solved, though. I'm sure they'll get another undersized high motor post player that may or may not solve the issues that they're hoping to solve. But yeah, I think for all of the.
- [44:06]
Stefan Anderson
Tell them how you really feel.
- [44:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Sabrina, all of the wonderful things that Flaje has brought to LSU. Again, first, McDonald's all American. She loved Kim because Kim was the one who allowed her to be a rapper and a basketball player. And like, all of this, these high moments two, three years ago and to end it, like, I mean, I, I've already said this. Blaj was our first McDonald's All American. She won a championship. She stayed in school for four years. Like, yeah, I know her bio. What are you just reciting it to
- [44:32]
Stefan Anderson
me for oh, man. I think also the way, like, they. There's definitely. It definitely seems like there was some discord in their relationships. In fact, I think Mulky was playing, dare I say, some discordant notes with her rotation, especially as it pertained to Flage, not only in this game, but just throughout the course of the season. You saw a number of times where Flage was benched or she was sitting on the bench very late into the fourth quarter. There was a game that she was playing through what was a potential ankle injury, and Kim was like, well, I'm not going to make excuses for her. She's publicly sort of between, like, sandwiched between compliments, called out her free throw shooting this season. On that note, it's been a very strange season for Flage Johnson as well. She stayed an extra season in hopes of winning a title and probably in hopes of, you know, cashing on that seeping. Good, nice, nice new CBA money as well. I'm sure that was a part of it.
- [45:33]
Sabrina Merchant
But she wanted.
- [45:34]
Stefan Anderson
I think she really wanted to win a title. And she enters this season with being very emotional about Kara not playing her in the America. And then you have Kim Mulkey talk about it and how it shook her confidence and Flage had to kind of find her confidence again, and then you're kind of gonna play these sort of mind games with her. She also missed the free throws against South Carolina. Her mom is kind of speaking publicly for her after that game in a moment of heated emotions that I don't like. It's just sort of like a keep it in the group chat sort of thing. I don't want to judge anybody for what they say about their kid when they're emotional. It's just sort of like, I just. There's so many things nowadays that I'm like, I just shouldn't. I don't know why I have access to you saying this right now, but I do. And that. That is what it is. And it was just, I guess, if you want to make the most generous sort of read on it, it was a very tough love season from Kim Mulkey. But I think overall, it was a really tough year for Flaje internally and in terms of who she wants to be as a basketball player. And I even think about the game that we just watched. I think a lot of what went wrong for her was she wanted it too bad. You know, you could watch her pressing, like, there were a lot of missed layups where, you know, she's going to the rim and she's just, like, trying to will the ball into the basket, and she's. She's pressing, she's. She's forcing. So it's. It's one of those things where, as a coach, you kind of just need to take her to the side and be like, yo, like, chill. We know who you are. You got this. It's okay. It's almost like for all of the moments this season where you felt like there was a lack of aggression or a sort of waiting for Malaysia to get into the game, this game did not feel like that from Flaje. It really felt like her heart was very much in the right place. And now I think she's kind of on one end, sort of reeling emotionally and then not feeling the support that she needs to feel from the coach that she's had for her entire college career. And then after the game, in the handshake line, of all people, it's Carol Lawson who's, like, giving her a hug and, like, you know, saying something to her that seemed like it was, you know, a message of support. It's just kind of. I don't know. It's sort of confounding. After what seemed like it was a really symbiotic relationship between player and coach for the first few years of her career.
- [48:17]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. She's a rarity in that she stayed four years with the same program and the same coach, and I want to celebrate that. And I love college basketball stories like that where you get to see a player grow in the same system. And yet I just can't wait for her to be somewhere else now.
- [48:35]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, I almost, like, I feel like a huge improper. No, like, it's true. Like, I've been thinking about her with, like, the draft and stuff, and I'm like, man, like, I honestly am kind of like, to me, at this point, she's a steal because of everything she went through this year. Like, I kind of am, like, like, obviously her draft stock is going to drop, and I'm kind of like, I think it might be good for her to play in a situation where the pressure is. Isn't on her, and she can kind of just, like, be in a pro atmosphere and kind of figure it out, like, kind of rebuild her game and her and her confidence. By the way, do you know if. Is Kim Mulkey retiring? If, like, I don't know. Do you hear anything about that?
- [49:18]
Sabrina Merchant
We can move on to the next.
- [49:27]
Stefan Anderson
All right. Okay. I'll do my wedgie now, and my wedgie Is So this is actually like a wedgie that maybe I don't need to pick. Maybe this is a wedgie that I need to ignore, which is Olivia Miles defense. TCU loses in the elite A. Olivia Miles is guarding Tanay Aladsin because she is playing a team with two backcourt members that can't be ignored. So she can't just hide and she plays through it for the rest of the quarter. But she's basically food for everyone she guards, especially Igot Makir who had an incredible game. We'll talk about her in a bit. But this is sort of like it's kind of been just a thing that's on my mind. Olivia Miles lack of defensive improvement throughout the season in tcu. Coming off of a season in Notre Dame where she was benched in key moments because she'd become a liability that other teams were targeting. Don't love on its face.
- [50:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Right.
- [50:26]
Stefan Anderson
We've had private text conversations about this. You're on the other side of this. And I think that I need to get to a place with it where like to me she's a little bit luca coded, you know, with all the gifts and all the flaws. Right. Like you are going to have questions about the defense. There are going to be times where she holds onto the ball. She will also make a pass that nobody else in basketball can make. She is a generational passer. She's incredibly fun to watch. She can power an entire transition. She is the smartest pick and roll practitioner in college last year or this year. And I think I need to get to a place where I am not vladi divach in 2018 over indexing somebody's flaws and letting them pass me. I feel like, I mean it's like. And I don't know, like I don't know where Cheryl Reeves head is at right now, but I almost want it like I meet her. Take a collective deep breath. Let's lock in. If you can turn Courtney Williams into a table setting point guard, you can certainly turn Olivia Miles into a passable defender. Lock in on what the next five years of Olivia Miles and Defisa Collier could look like and just let's do it. Let's do it. I'm ready to wade into the waters. The entire game against South Carolina kind of felt like that too. Where it was like the give and take, the give and take, the give
- [51:46]
Sabrina Merchant
is just picked up two fouls like right away. Just. Yeah, yeah. It was just. It's a thing.
- [51:52]
Stefan Anderson
It's so glaring sometimes that like I need to I need, I honestly feel like I need to find a way to look away.
- [51:59]
Sabrina Merchant
The, it's not even like indifference to defense at this point, just like a lack of interest. I mean, she straight up said when she was asked about Donovan Hunter earlier this week, like, Donovan does the things I don't want to do. Not like that. I can't do that. She's better at than me. That works for our team. Just straight up that I don't want to do. And I gotta be honest, you gotta want to do some of those things, right? You gotta chase, you gotta sit on the bump fakes getting hit left and right off of screens. There's a real cultural shock. I think that's gonna take place for Olivia Miles if she's in a Cheryl Raves system. But yeah, I, I'm with you. The, the pros are just like, mind blowing what she can do. And she's also the kind of person that's like, gonna sell tickets, people are gonna want to watch her play in person. Those things matter. And she's just a lot of fun. She's kind of crazy on the court. Like, does the trash talking, engages with the fans, all of that. I think all of that is far more important than the. Again, just complete disregard for defense, which I would have to imagine just gets like, there was just no accountability at tcu, right? Like, Mark Campbell did not have the ability to take her out if she made mistakes. There wasn't a Hannah Hidalgo or Sonja Citron sitting there who could play those minutes. Right? So she will face accountability in the WNBA and we'll see if, like, she actually goes for it. I think the Luca coded is perfectly on point with her, especially because she's developed the step back three and gotten a lot more into her offensive scoring back this season. But yeah, there's just, there's so much to like that I, I'm like, the defense is, is appalling, truly appalling. But I just have to believe in a situation where you have more than six capable rotation players that, like, accountability is coming for her.
- [53:51]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, no, that's a good point. I, I, and I, it kind of reminds me a little bit of, I think that this is something that Caitlin Clark said in one of her early press conferences, like, about defense, especially having Kristi Sides, who is like, pretty defensively minded as well, where she was like, yeah, no, definitely, like in the wnba, like, I'm going to have to play a lot of defense. And she kind of said something along the lines of like, or I could just like Set people up for enough layups that it doesn't matter. Like, you know, there is that sort of, like, when you are. When you are in that position where, like, you are better than everybody else in the stage that you're at. Like, hate to curve from Diana, but also kind of love it here. Like, reality does come. Like, as much as, you know, you got to talk about at some point, the stock market chart on that quote, because Caitlin comes into the league, and it's like, oh, yeah, like, the first 10 games or so, it's like reality hit. Then all of a sudden, everything flips. I think Olivia Miles could have a very similar trajectory. I think that the first part of the season will be tough for her. It's gonna be like, oh, yeah, no, I can't just, like, always go to my right here. Like, I can't always get around defenders there. Like, there's a couple things in her game that are scoutable that will, you know, be probably a glaring weakness for, like, the first 20 games of her career. At the same time, like, that's not a reason to pass up on a generational passer. So, yeah, that's kind of. I had to. I had to just get there with myself a little bit. And thank you. I think your conversations with you have really made me see the light on that one, because sometimes it is, to your point, when you see it be so brazen, the lack just standing, you're not even gonna get into a defensive squat. It's just so hard to ignore. I think Cheryl Reeve might go through some of the same emotional highs and lows if Minnesota takes her at 2. Or it's gonna be our girl Sonja Rummond's problem. We'll see who was in attendance in
- [55:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Sacramento, for what it's worth.
- [55:51]
Stefan Anderson
Oh, interesting. Interesting. Well, she should be. It makes sense.
- [55:54]
Sabrina Merchant
It's an easier flight than Fort Worth.
- [55:58]
Stefan Anderson
It is an easier flight than Fort Worth, and I'm sure that that is all there is. Don't need to read into any tea leaves there. All right, our last segment. We'll close this thing out with a new segment that I'm actually really excited about. It's called between the Lines. And I basically. I feel like through the course of covering sports, I so often come along quotes that get lost in the minutiae of coverage. Like, you have your big ones. You had Brenda freeze go viral last week. But there are so many things that happen. And if you're covering sports like you and I, a lot of the times you have to throw these things away. Because they don't fit in a larger story. But maybe there's something about them that stuck out to you in particular. There's something that resonated with your day to day life. Sports is ultimately a metaphor for life. There are so many things that happen in the game that mimic real life. That's why we are so emotionally drawn to it. So I kind of wanted to create some space to talk about the things that. The words that sort of hung in the air and stuck with us and perhaps offer an avenue for vulnerability. Not manating it as long as it feels authentic. Not trying to. Not. Not trying to force anybody to share too much of their lives on the Internet if they don't want to. That can be very fraught. It reminds me of Sarah Strong's mom's comments on Hey, I feel like players these days are a little bit overexposed. That's a quote that actually sticks in my head a lot these days. That's not what mine is going to be. Mine is going to be actually from an athletic story that your colleague Elise Devlin wrote on Sarah Graves. She said there's a hack to having infinite energy and it's just to stop keeping it for yourself. So Sarah Graves has been the feel good story of the tournament. And just the fact that she's getting shine is actually the feel good story of the tournament because players like Sarah Graves who don't get to play, who are the first player up celebrating for you on the bench, who are connecting with their teammates off of the court, are not players that generally you and I end up talking about on a podcast. And she has been an anomaly here. She was part of this big story and she's become somebody that the Texas fans love. She got to come into the game in the Elite Eight and she hits a three, the fans go crazy. Ryan Ruko hits her with a U. Bet it's her last game also in Texas as well. She's a senior. She's playing in Fort Worth. There's some beautiful synchronicity there. But what I love about Graves and what I love about this story is it's the ultimate reframe of the end of the bench player. Or as Elise puts it, what's known in the sort of Gen Z workplace parlance as the personality hire into the culture setters right into the person that actually makes everything go emotionally. There's a little bit of captain class stuff in there too. That's a book written by Sam Walker about kind of posits that the best player is usually not the leader of the team. That's a bit of a cliche. It's usually somebody behind the scenes that doesn't. I think Sid Coulson for the Aces is a good example of this. But I think that I love the way that Graves has really started to embrace this role. She's self deprecating about it online and more importantly, on the opposite end of being self deprecating, she's learned to see or she's probably already seen, but she's talking about the value that this role has. And it's not a role that we typically ascribe with value. And to me it infirms the notion that whatever you're doing, if you affirm your value in it, it will shine even more. If you affirm the value of what you do, you will create even more value. And this stuck out to me in my personal life because like my family, my friends, like back in Edmonton are having a difficult time. Like it's been a very difficult year for a lot of people that I know. And I felt really guilty about being far away. And you know, on top of that they're creating families. Like they're getting married, straight married, I might add. So, you know, it's not all, it's not all good. And I felt really guilty about not being able to be around, but I was having a conversation with somebody a little while ago about it and they kind of said along the lines of like, it's actually nice to talk to somebody who's not around. Like you're actually a release valve that's away from the day to day trivialities and the stress and you actually can think about the bigger picture and calm people down. When moments of stress are happening, everybody kind of, you can have those moments where you turn against each other a little bit. You just get overly upset about things. And it's kind of offered me a little bit of a new perspective. I guess it's kind of cool to be the person that's far away. There's some. It's like I said, there's value. There's value in that. I've actually kind of tried to lean into that a little bit more now that it was sort of made clear to me that by being away, even though I feel selfish sometimes, a, it is actually a sacrifice because I miss everybody as well. But I feel less guilty about it because I can provide something unique that nobody else can in that realm. And I do wonder if for somebody like Sarah Graves, because you don't have the pressure of day to day performance like Madison Booker or like Rory Harmon does. Right. You can actually just observe everything. You're almost like a coach, but at the same time, you're the same age as everybody. You're in that locker room. Maybe it allows you to be able to just see things from a different perspective.
- [61:47]
Sabrina Merchant
I was not prepared for this level of vulnerability, gotta be honest.
- [61:51]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [61:54]
Sabrina Merchant
No. I really like the series that has been going on at the Athletic recently at peak and just like different ways of leading and how that comes, you know, in different forms. And obviously you wouldn't think of 12th player on a roster, Sarah Graves, someone who doesn't get into the game as being so critical to the culture of a team that's been in the Final Four back to back seasons. But it's just, it's really fun to see those stories and to see like, how much the team is clearly invested in her and the community is clearly invested in her and what that means, you know, both ways. Yeah, absolutely.
- [62:28]
Stefan Anderson
Like, I think, I think there's something to just like, I just love that quote. Like, there's a hack to having infinite energy. It's to stop keeping it from yourself for yourself. Like, teams work on those positive feedback loops all the time too. This Texas team in particular. Oh my God, I feel like they are. We'll talk Final Four different day. But they're looking really good to me. Yeah. Let's all leave it at. That's my little teaser. Yeah.
- [62:52]
Sabrina Merchant
What's your.
- [62:53]
Stefan Anderson
Between the lines?
- [62:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I've really enjoyed the experience of seeing Raven Johnson up close and personal the last few days. Obviously I'm like across the country, don't get to watch a lot of South Carolina up close, but she just has a way of like, on the one hand, like her nickname is Hollywood because when she was in high school, she showed up to practice wearing like all this justice clothing and jewelry and like, you know, really obnoxious stuff that she looks back on. And that's how she got the nickname and she doesn't really care for it anymore. But Toni Lassen thinks it's super funny and it's great. But then she's also the most stabilizing person on the team and the one who helps them get through all of this chaos and the extension of dawn on the court. And Joyce Edwards was talking about this thing where he may have heard the rims have been a topic of conversation in the Nancy tournament.
- [63:47]
Stefan Anderson
Yes, I have. Yes.
- [63:48]
Sabrina Merchant
And they were a practice and Joyce was sort of looking at the rims and making some. Expressing some concerns And Raven just goes, no, we only have positive thoughts right now. There's no time for anything but positive thoughts. And I just think, like, it's interesting that you've got Raven Johnson, who one of the defining moments of her career is like just being waved off at the three point line, right? And we've come to learn that that's just how Caitlin Clark plays defense. But like, to go from that to like, no, only have time for positive thoughts. Like, she is the 1 most outstanding player in this region who everybody turns to, who, like Maddie McDaniel is always in her ear because she knows that that's going to be her role next year. And when people need the calming moment, they go to Raven. And she's the one who's passing out her shirt to the coaching staff and the injured players the day before the Sweet 16 game because she just wants all good vibes on the bench heading into this game. I just love that she has this authority over the team, but also like this very fun way of leading and, you know, I enjoy that. You know, only positive comments. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [65:00]
Stefan Anderson
Dawn talked about this after the game, too. She talked about Raven being a winner and she has become the comm. I think. I think it was a game against LSU where she talked about that, like, I have to be the comm for my teammates, which felt like, I mean, not to sub to LSU again, but I just couldn't think. I couldn't think of a bigger contrast to that. That's why it stuck out to me at the time.
- [65:22]
Sabrina Merchant
Again, a player where, like, I thoroughly enjoy the fact that she's been in this system for five years. And like, as you've just seen her grow, like, this is what I want it to look like. This is what I want college basketball to look like.
- [65:33]
Stefan Anderson
Well, yeah, because Dawn Staley, who's also a point guard, has basically transmuted her personality onto her to the point where
- [65:40]
Sabrina Merchant
now she does not like hearing that, by the way. She does not like when people tell her that she is Don on the court. She's like, no, we are very different.
- [65:47]
Stefan Anderson
I don't play like hers as players. Yes, yes, yes.
- [65:52]
Sabrina Merchant
I guess I'm an extension of her on the court as a coach. But, like, it's a compliment. But, you know, I think one of
- [65:57]
Stefan Anderson
the funniest things about Dawn Staley is how different she was as a player than as a coach as well. Like, Don Staley is a player, was doing Malaysia, full Wiley shit. Like that is. That is a secret. That is a secret untold, perhaps. The wedgie of the Dawn Staley, Malaysia full wily. Story is that Dawn Staley played like Malaysia full Wiley. Although she did not turn the ball over as much, she found she had a little bit more balance with the, with, with her flair than maybe Malaysia. And maybe that's what she was hoping to see out of her. Raven Johnson also has a nick nickname, Crockpot. Raven Crockpot Johnson, which she's also not a fan of, but plies just kind of like off the dome.
- [66:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Let's get her a nickname that she likes, shall we?
- [66:35]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, people, that's got to be so people bring like Crockpots to South Carolina games to have her sign and she's like, what are we doing, guys? We're taking this too far. But yeah, that has to be the goal for her next WNBA franchise. Find a good name for Raven Johnson. Now, I am an advocate of the idea that you don't get to choose your own nickname. However, in the instance of Crockpot, I will let it start.
- [67:03]
Sabrina Merchant
You should be able to veto a nickname at the very least.
- [67:06]
Stefan Anderson
Yeah, you know, it was honest. Like, well, I don't know. I'm of many minds on that, but thank you, Sabrina, for popping by today. Oh, actually, before we go, shout out to Misai Ujiri, who is joining the ownership group of the Toronto Tempo. Just for somebody who's, you know, done so much for the game of basketball in Canada and has always been an advocate of women's empowerment through sports, I think it's a great fit. I think it's been a huge asset to the team. I, as somebody who used to cover him when I lived in Toronto, I am really excited to cover him again as well. He's a fantastic guy to cover. I think he's just a fascinating, passionate and intelligent competitor who thinks very globally and granularly about a lot of things. So. Hell yeah. On that note, expansion draft is on Friday. We will break that down Friday night alongside the Final Four. If you want to listen to anything about the expansion draft, we did record a podcast about it with Emma Batchelory last week and we will also be back to preview the Final Four on Thursday in depth. There's going to be a lot of podcasts and we yapping a lot this week. If you're looking to learn anything else about the Houston Comet's history, I'll be posting some links to that, to the stuff that I referenced on social media media. But yeah, we'll be back very, very soon. Thank you, Sabrina, as always, for making the time and thank you, Stefan Anderson, for producing.