Mary Walters (1:29)

Visit t mobile.com.

Donald Trump (1:33)

Hold it.

Gordon Chang (1:33)

Now.

Doug Burns (1:36)

You are about to hear the most interesting, informative, thought provoking and funny show in America on air and on the world wide web. This is the Rob Carson Show.

Mary Walters (1:55)

And welcome back to the Rob Carson Show. I am Mary Walters, sitting in for Rob Carson the rest of this week and then next week. I know Brian's off for the rest of this week, but I'll be here. Not Christmas day. They're actually gonna give me Christmas day off, which is kind of cool. But I have to drive and then come home and prepare for Friday because Christmas is Thursday. What's today? Tuesday. Yeah, I'm having one of those days where like I can't even remember which day it is. Later today I will be on Todd Starn show on Newsmax N2 you can find if some people have it on their, their cable system or however you you watch Newsmax. Some people have it, some don't. If you don't, you can go to YouTube and just look for Newsmax 2. And I will be on at 5:25 allegedly, unless President Trump starts talking again. I get bumped again. I got bumped yesterday. And that's never fun, especially when you spend time doing your hair and makeup and you don't have time for things like that. But actually I do have to do my hair and makeup anyway because my live cast is tonight at 7:15pm Eastern Time. These are all Eastern times and it is live on YouTube. Gutter rumble. You can ask questions, make comments. My guest tonight is the amazing Hans Van Spakowski, who is my regular Christmas guest. I say regular a couple of years in a row. And he was also my co host during Christmas week when I was working in Washington, D.C. doing a morning show. So we you kind of bond when you do a morning show with somebody, you kind of bond with them. All right. So I got bumped last night, as I said, because President Trump decides to go on TV at 5 o'. Clock. I don't know why 5 o' clock is like the time that he decides to go on, but it is. And so he unveiled what he called his golden fleet. His golden fleet new fleet of ships. And they're going to be unveiled plans to build two very large battleships. But I'm going to let cut 19, Brian. I'm going to let Trump tell you in a way that only he can. Here's Trump with his big announcement.

Donald Trump (4:17)

As commander in chief, it is my great honor to announce that I have approved a plan for the Navy to begin the construction of two brand new very large, the largest we've ever built battleships. You know, you used to build the Iowa, the Missouri, the Wisconsin, the Alabama, many others. We had big battleships. These are bigger, but they will have 100 times the they'll be 100 times the force, the power. And there's never been anything like these ships. These have been under design consideration for a long time. And it started with me in my first term because I said, why aren't we doing battleships like we used to? And the these are the best in the world. They'll be the fastest, the biggest and by far 100 times more powerful than any battleship ever built. So if you look at the Iowa, the Missouri, Wisconsin, Alabama and others, but they're, they were similar in size, some a little bit bigger than the others. But if you take the biggest one, it's 100 times more powerful. They're longer by a little bit, but the. And they're bigger. They're bigger ships, but they hold much more. They use the word lethality.

Mary Walters (5:42)

They're bigger by a little bit, but they're bigger. They're bigger. Oh, he tickles me. He makes me laugh. So, yeah, so those. Those will cost anywhere from 9 to 15 billion dollars. Looking at you, Tim Walls. We should call one the SS Walls. That's what we should call it. But that would be pretty funny if we did that. The Secretary of the Navy, John Phelan, was there, along with War Secretary Pete Hegseth, and they're going to be called the Trump class. It's the Trump class of ships, which I absolutely love. Trump class, we haven't built one since 1944. They say they're going to start procuring two ships, working up to 10, eventually 20 to 25 ships in total, and would aim to have the first two within two and a half years. That's good, because that will be under. While Trump. Trump is still president. So. And if you know President Trump with these. These builders, he wants to have them built in the United States. We do have ports that can still build ships, which I love. I love that. We just like our pharmaceuticals, we shouldn't have, like China, India, the foreign companies processing medications for the American people. You take one disgruntled employee and a little Fentanyl, and you can kill millions of people in this country because it was a tainted batch that came from a foreign country. We should be making that here. Which is why Trump had. Yes, was. Was pressuring the pharmaceutical reps, you know, to bring the manufacturing back here. I won't charge you tariffs if you bring it back here. Right. So that's important. And building the ships here are just as important, especially because of the technology. And they say, oh, well, they're gonna build. They're gonna build the ships, but we're gonna put the technology in here. No, we have plenty of welders and shipbuilders and people who can do these jobs along with the tech people as well, and we should do it in this country. I worry, though, that a Democrat in 2028, they're not going to want to continue it. Not because that it's a bad program or a bad idea, but it's Trump's idea. And so just like Joe Biden overturning all of Trump's executive orders and flipping the border open, wide open, creating huge problems, the base cheered because Joe Biden was showing Donald Trump. Now, he said that they're going. He, he argues that Donald Trump, Donald Trump argues that gun based firepower can deliver combat effects at a fraction of the cost of missiles. So they'd be more cost effective because they're going to combine missiles and traditional naval guns. Each ship would displace more than 30,000 to 40,000 tons and serve as a flagship of the US fleet. They would all be equipped with advanced weapons, hypersonic missiles, electric railguns, high powered laser systems, nuclear capable sea launched cruise missiles. All of that are currently under development. Those are currently under development, but they're hoping that they get them developed, they'll get them on the ships. And he was asked if you're doing this because you're trying to counter China. And Trump said it's a counter to everybody. It's not China. We get along with China. He's trying to preserve that relationship. I get it. I have a great relationship with President Xi. It's not China, it's just everybody. You don't know who comes along. We wanted peace through strength. Now some defense planners, now, of course, I am not a naval tactician or anything along those lines. Maybe you are. And you can jump in here, 800-922-6680. I would welcome it. That's fine. But some defense planners have argued that large surface ships can be more visible and that makes them a more vulnerable target because modern conflicts are really missile heavy. Now we're missile heavy because you shoot a missile from far away. So it's considered safer. But others are arguing that the larger platforms can provide greater firepower, more endurance and command and control capabilities. So Trump is going to meet next week with major defense contractors and to demand faster delivery times. Of course he is. He's going to ask him, how fast can you do it? He's going to say, good, you're going to do it 25% faster than that. Increased capital investment in new factories. He said, we want to make the best equipment in the world, but they don't make it fast enough. I have. And he said that companies should reinvest profits into production capacity rather than dividends and buybacks, you know, and executive compensation.

Gordon Chang (10:28)

Okay.

Mary Walters (10:30)

He said, I have sold more plans than any president. Planes. Excuse me, than any president. By far. Times probably 20. So every time I go somewhere, I sell a hundred planes and I'm always having to say, oh, it's going to take five years, it's going to take six years, it's going to take seven years. And he doesn't want that anymore. He wants America to be able to keep up. We're going to talk with Gordon Chang about that coming up at the bottom of the hour here. I also want to talk to him about some of this. Let's go to cut 20. President Trump was asked about Colombia because Colombia is acting up. And is it because it's not just in all of these Central and South American countries are starting acting up because they can't send all their people just back to the United States. Now the United States is saying, you got to keep your people. And Trump is really cracking down on these countries because we give them a lot of money and they're not happy about that. And a lot of them are involved in the drug trade. So here's President Trump's response on his feelings about Colombian President Gustavo Petro.

Gordon Chang (11:29)

So in response to the United States taking sanctioned oil from Venezuela, Colombian President Gustavo Petrov criticized the United States by saying, well, the Southwest has stolen land and that it should be returned to Latin America.

Donald Trump (11:40)

I just wanted to know what your.

Gordon Chang (11:41)

Response to that is.

Donald Trump (11:42)

Well, he has to watch because, you know, he's got drug factories. They make cocaine in Colombia and he's no friend of the United States. He's very bad, very bad guy. And he's got to watch his ass because he makes cocaine and they send it into the United States of America from Colombia. We love the Colombian people. I love the Colombian people. They're great people, energetic, smart, great. But their new leader is a troublemaker. And you better watch it. You better close up those cocaine factories. They have at least three major cocaine factories. We know where they are. He better close them up fast.

Mary Walters (12:20)

Yeah, classic Trump. We know where they are. In other words, President Petro, we know where the cocaine factories are. You better close them up. It's a very obviously not, not thinly veiled threat, obviously. Let's go to cut 21. Trump was also asked the obvious question allowed. I think a lot of people are wondering regarding Maduro of Venezuela, what's going to happen with Maduro? The people want him out. We obviously want him out. Trump is pressuring him out. He's got a blockade around Venezuela so they can no longer sell the embargoed oil that that Biden was allowing them to do in violation of the law. So Trump is now saying, no, you can't do that. And that has a ripple effect because Cuba gets buys a lot of that oil from Venezuela. Now Cuba can't get the oil from Venezuela. So this has a ripple effect. And I think Trump is hoping the pressure gets to Maduro. Here he is answering a question about forcing Maduro from power.

Gordon Chang (13:24)

What goal in Venezuela to force Maduro from power?

Donald Trump (13:28)

Well, I think it probably would, I can't tell. That's up to him. Him what he wants to do. I think it would be smart for him to do that. But again, we're going to find out. Look, Venezuela did terrible things to the United States. They sent hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people into our open border. They sent their criminals, they sent their prisoners, they sent their drug dealers, they sent their mentally insane and incompetent people into our country more than any other country. Others did too. The Congo did. Others did too. And we just let him come right in because we were run by a stupid president. But you don't have a stupid president anymore.

Mary Walters (14:10)

You don't have a stupid president anymore. Yeah, we're not going to allow drug dealers in to the country. And no matter. Have you noticed that the, the clamor on the left has died down about this? And that's probably because Adam Schiff back in the day, back in the 80s wrote the bill that allows or that the law or the bill or the guidance that allows Trump to do this. So they've been very quiet. And of course Obama used drones all the time and he used them. Trump is doing it in international waters. Obama killed people with drones in foreign lands, thus violating their sovereignty. And he took out children, civilians who were accidentally killed by Obama drones. Nobody cared about that. You didn't hear screaming about that. And he also took out Al Aula, key son who is an American citizen, had never been charged with a crime, targeted hit on him. Nobody cared. So it's interesting that the clamor from the left has died down. You know, I thought that was good. So Gordon Chang will be joining us. We're going to talk to him about this. We're going to talk to him about Netanyahu's concern over Iran and also Russia evacuating family members of diplomats from Venezuela. Whether that is actually really happening, happening or if that's just a rumor, cuz you're getting two different stories depending on whom you, with whom you speak. My English teacher would be so proud of me. All right, so don't go anywhere. We've got so much to get to today. I'm going to try to bang it out here on the Rob Carson show. O come all you people joyful. And. You know Rob's taste in music, it runs so counter to his 70s inspired Austin Powers like decoration, his Decor like it's kind of 60s, 70s thing going on there. It's very odd. It's a dichotomy. John reached out to me on X and said, I see so much fraud in Baltimore city year after year. When we go to the store to buy groceries, people try to buy them with their SNAP card in exchange for half the cash. It's happening so frequently. Then they go buy alcohol, drugs, or lottery tickets. I don't know, maybe you should report the store, John. You can do that. He also said, we do not, we do not participate in that fraud. But so many do. I say something to the, to the people that run the stores and they don't care. A lot of the corner stores that are owned by Koreans or Arabs do the same thing. So much fraud. Oh, he says, I can get Firefighter John. Yeah, because they listen in their country. This is probably how you get by the fraud. You milk the government, you know, that's how you do it. So that's. They're just doing what they know, right? Hey, speaking of doing what, you know, just this New York Post story today. Hunter Biden turned on his father in a podcast interview this week, and he acknowledged that his dad's lack immigration policy and move to pull US Forces out of, out of Afghanistan were catastrophic failures. He was on the Sean Ryan show. Five and a half hour conversation, five and a half hours. I'm doing an out, like an hour tonight, and I'm like, I don't have time. It dropped yesterday. He said, we need vibrant immigration, but we don't want immigrants that are coming here illegally draining us of resources and being prioritized above people that are actual, literal heroes that are still recovering from 21, 20 years of endless war or anybody else in our society. While earlier in the interview, Hunter claimed that his father's White House had secured an agreement from Republicans to back a sweeping border bill that had been negotiated by Senator James Lankford, Kyrsten Sinema and Chris Murphy. Bipartisan and then Donald Trump stepped in six months before the election, 2024, and told Republicans that he was going to primary every single one of them that voted for that because we're addicted to the problem. While the Biden White House insisted congressional legislation was needed to secure the border, Trump has relied on executive action. All executive actions that he relied on in his first presidency that Joe Biden overturned and didn't replace it with anything and opened up the border right elsewhere in the interview. And I'm sure there's going to be more coming out of this five and a half hours you got to listen to. Elsewhere in the interview, Hunter admitted to Sean Ryan that the pullout from Afghanistan was an obvious effing failure. I think that there was a better way to do it. And I can blame it on his generals. I can blame it on the other people for the way in which we did it. We did it. But, and my dad always knew this also is that the buck stops with him. Huh. I would think a kid who got, you know, the best present a dad could ever give his son, which was like lifelong immunity for anything you might ever do in your life or anything you did, really, it's not proactive. It's reactive reaction, regressive for anything he might have done because Daddy knows. I don't know. I'm really surprised. But then again, am I surprised that Hunter Biden's running his mouth. He doesn't have good judgment, but yet he saw what a disaster it was. More so than his father Hunter specified. He said, I think leaving Afghanistan was the right thing to do. But he agreed with the interviewer when the interviewer Ryan said, I cannot effing stand the way the Afghanistan, the Afghan withdrawal happened. And Hunter responded and said, I hear your anger about that, and I don't have any response to it other than the fact that I know my dad came from a position that would, that 20 years was enough and it was not in the interest of anyone in the United States to remain there. And Donald Trump agreed with him. And Donald Trump had a withdrawal plan. But I think on the left, there's just so much. Anything, if Trump is for it, we're automatically against it. You know, the left is, is for drug runners. Now, the left is for criminals, you know, defending criminals in this country. The left is for murderers and rapists who don't, shouldn't go to jail if they're in the country illegally. That's what they're about. So coming up, Gordon Chang will be joining us. We're going to talk about that. Golden Fleet will talk about Netanyahu's concern over Iran and this rumor going around that Russia is evacuating families from Venezuela. What's that about? We'll find out on the Rob Carson Show.

Doug Burns (21:09)

Hi, it's Tony Marino, host of the super popular Newsmax Daily podcast. A rundown of the day's top headlines and top highlights of Newsmax shows and interviews you may have missed. Plus some sports, stock markets, and even some yucks all packed into about 20 minutes. Search for the Newsmax Daily with me, Tony Marino on your favorite podcast. Platform. And check out our entire lineup of great podcasts, including Greg Kelly, Rob Carson, and Jerry Callahan@Newsmax.com Listen.

Mary Walters (21:52)

I'll have a blue Christmas without you. I'll be so blue just thinking about you. I've never heard the circus version of this song before. This is new to me. This is another one of Rob's favorites. Oh, it's too funny. That's too funny. Was that Michael Buble, by the way? Really? He does a circus version. He also had the, the bongo version yesterday, right. Of a Christmas. Why can't people just leave them alone like you have to be? Was that him with the bongo version yesterday? Yeah. Hit a bongo version of a Christmas song yesterday. Never heard that before. And today he's got the Christmas or stripper. It was almost like a stripper version of Blue Christmas right there. I like you, Michael Buble, but you might want to stick to what works. I don't know if the stripper version of White Christmas works. We can ask. Let's ask Gordon Chang. He's on the Newsmax hotline. You can find Gordon on exit. Gordon G. Chang. He is the author of the Coming Collapse of China and Plan Red China's Project to Destroy America and an old friend. Gordon, so glad to speak with you. Thank you for joining me here on the Rob Carson Show.

Gordon Chang (23:19)

Well, thank you, Mary, and Merry Christmas.

Mary Walters (23:21)

Merry Christmas to you, too. What did you think of the stripper version of Blue Christmas there?

Gordon Chang (23:26)

I did not like it. I mean, I may be a traditionalist, but, you know, that was just too much.

Mary Walters (23:33)

It was a little weird. A little weird. So, you know, you are a China relations expert, but you also are very aware of what's going on in the world and very up to date on that. But I do want to start with China. President Trump unveiling his golden fleet of Navy battleships yesterday and he was asked if this is meant to counter China. China, of course, has a huge navy. They are farther along than we are. They have now. The US Officials say that our Navy retains a technological end. The US Navy currently operates about 294 warship warships where China has the world's largest nav with more than 370 ships in service. Now, Trump denied that this was meant to counter China. Do you agree with that? Do you think that's what this is about? Is it about China?

Gordon Chang (24:25)

Well, it's certainly about China, you know, and this sort of mirrors President Trump's national security strategy, which does not call out China, but if you read it in substance, is going after China across the world. Unfortunately, President Trump doesn't say that. And that's exactly what happened yesterday when they asked about countering China. I mean, these ships really don't make sense if you don't have a China in the world. They only make sense if you are considering defending yourselves against a big malignant and militant Chinese state.

Mary Walters (25:01)

Yeah. You know, you wrote the book the Coming Collapse of China. Is China collapsing still? Is this all just a. Just a smoke and mirrors and a production that we're watching by China?

Gordon Chang (25:15)

Well, I was wrong about timing in 2001. I thought it would take a decade for the Communist Party to fail. And I did not foresee the 2008 downturn, which gave party a new lease on life. But what we're seeing now, Mary, are some very disturbing signs. So, for instance, there's an economy that's not growing at the 4.8% pace that they reported for the third quarter this year. You know, some people say it's about 1%. I think you can make a case and matter of fact, a better case for an economy that's at zero or negative numbers. You have people in China are very pessimistic. We see this from all the conversations on social media. Demographic decline. China will lose at least 3/4 of its population between now and 2100. You just go down the list. China has reached high point. And that's why we are witnessing a lot of Chinese propaganda right now, because as Sun Tzu, the famous Chinese military strategist, said, when we appear strong, okay?

Mary Walters (26:19)

And you know what? I think Donald Trump does the same thing. I would not be surprised if he had read Sun Tzu's the Art of War, because Donald Trump operates, I think, that way very much. You know, he was asked about Colombia and the Colombian president, and Donald Trump said, you know, he's got it. He's got to get rid of. Because the Colombian president had said something that Donald Trump has to watch his back, you know, with the. With the blockade of Venezuela. And Trump responded and said, no, he's got to watch his. Because he makes cocaine and they send it into the United States of America from Colombia. He's got to shut down his cocaine factories, and I know where they are. Not exactly a veiled threat.

Gordon Chang (27:01)

Yeah. And Trump has actually used that before. And I think that really what Trump is doing is this. Is this big Jedi mind trick that he's playing on a lot of world leaders, you know, also including the Colombian president, Petrov, but also Maduro right now. And the Chinese. I think the Chinese are having a hard time trying to figure Trump out.

Mary Walters (27:23)

The Chinese, are they just going to wait him out and just wait for another, you know, President Pudding Pants, another Joe Biden?

Gordon Chang (27:31)

You know, that's a great question. You know, Xi Jinping has been around now for more than 10 years. It's about 12 and a half. But you've got to remember that Xi has an election every day. That's the nature of the Chinese system, because Xi jumped the rules that apply. And so right now, it's a very turbulent Chinese regime. And we're seeing this with all of these new promotions and purges in the Chinese military at a really accelerated pace. That shows that there's a lot of trouble in the regime. So Xi Jinping, I think, is sort of. I think he probably admires the sense that in the US you have fixed terms because you know you're going to last until the end of your term. Xi Jinping doesn't know that about him.

Mary Walters (28:17)

True, karma may come to pay him a visit. So if, if, when he's out, let's, let's say that karma pays him a visit or something medically happens, he's out. And the Chinese people are disgruntled. There's. They're not weak enough to the point where we would see softening of the communist absolute authoritarianism stance. There is. There is. I mean, maybe I'm wrong.

Gordon Chang (28:43)

Yeah. The only way you're wrong, Mary, is that it's no longer authoritarian. The Chinese system right now is full on totalitarian. But, you know, your general point is right. This is a regime which is hanging on because of the world's most sophisticated and coercive controls. And it's been very successful in developing what's called digital totalitarianism. But we know that the Chinese people explode every once in a while, as they did in October 2022 for about three or four months. Regime can't deal with it except trying to wait out the Chinese people. But the people will explode again because there's really a lot of unhappiness with the way the economy is going, among other things.

Mary Walters (29:28)

All right? And. But when they, when they explode, it lasts only so long, and then it just eventually goes back to the way it was. I guess my question is, is do we ever see China break out of this totalitarianism or will it always be a totalitarian society?

Gordon Chang (29:44)

I think they eventually break it out, break out because the Chinese people don't want it. And. But the problem about China right now is that you've got a system which is in transit, which means that it can stay on a long time, longer than I thought, for instance. But when it goes, it probably goes in a flash. And that's been the history. If we go back through two millennia of Chinese imperial rule. The first Chinese dynasty actually disappeared when two soldiers who were late to work and knew that they would be executed, they started a revolt which eventually was successful. And that has also been the dynamic throughout the millennia of imperial rule. So, yeah, it'll happen. You just don't know when. But when it goes, the Chinese regime could take down a lot of the world with it, including the entire world if it really wants to.

Mary Walters (30:35)

Lovely. All right, quick break. If you don't mind hanging on, I have so many things I want to ask you about because just I could always keep Gordon for like half an hour. So hang on, Gordon. And we've got more coming up with Gordon Chang here. I'm going to say Gordon Ramsay. Gordon Chang on the Rob Carson show. On the Newsmax hotline, we are joined by Gordon Chang, not Gordon Ramsay at all. That would be a totally different interview. Gordon. There's reports by the AP that Russia's foreign Ministry has begun evacuating families of diplomats from Venezuela. Now, Venezuelan foreign minister said, nope, that's not happening. The Russian foreign minister said, no, is false that Russian nationals are being evacuated. Do you know what's really going on?

Gordon Chang (31:30)

I wish I did, but I assume that the Russians are evacuating because they know that they can't stop what President Trump is doing. And the Chinese know that as well. Neither Russia nor China, which have historically supported the Maduro regime recently, that they do not have the military wherewithal to stop what President Trump has been doing in the Caribbean and in the Pacific.

Mary Walters (31:58)

Yeah. You know what's interesting, too, is doesn't Cuba buy a lot of that oil from Venezuela? And now with the blockade around it, this affects other countries in the area. I don't know if anyone else besides Cuba buys the Venezuelan oil legally, but there have got to be other maybe islands that are doing it as well. Is there going to be some kind of ripple effect from this?

Gordon Chang (32:20)

Well, yeah, China is a big taker of Venezuela's oil exports, as is Cuba. And Cuba gets a lot of it on extremely favorable terms. Essentially, it's Venezuela supporting the Cuban regime. And when Trump is fully able to block all of those Venezuelan exports, which he's very much about to do because he's now seized two tankers on the way to seizing a third, I think that this is going to be a 2 it's going to be the end of the Maduro regime and it's going to be the end of communism, Cuba.

Mary Walters (32:53)

Which I think can go either way. I, we're not good at nation building. We're not good with regime change. But I fear, you know, nature, nature abhors a vacuum. I fear some of the terrorist organizations that have been moving into our hemisphere, that we have kept out of our hemisphere for so long will try to seize that opportunity to get a foothold as close to America as they possibly can.

Gordon Chang (33:17)

Well, they already do because Maduro.

Mary Walters (33:20)

Well, no, you're not supposed to tell me that just before Christmas. This is sad.

Gordon Chang (33:25)

It is sad. Well, Iran and his agents in Venezuela. But we also got to remember Iran has a lot of agents in the United States and the Biden administration wasn't very forceful and trying to get them out. Matter of fact, if you remember that deal in on September 11, 2023, where Biden released a lot of money to the Iranians as a part of that, Biden gave clemency to five Iranian operatives and he allowed three of them to stay in the United States. So, yeah, we can expect the Iranians to do a lot of damage here in the US if they wanted to. And by the way, the Chinese also have even bigger networks in the United States, of course, ready to basically take us down when they get the go signal.

Mary Walters (34:16)

Yeah. Well, I don't think I can't blame Biden and for that I have to blame Obama because I'm pretty sure I am convinced he was running the show because a lot of this looks like something that Obama would do and I think his fingerprints are all over all of this. Before we run out of time, there are Benjamin Netanyahu and President Trump are supposed to be meeting later after, after Christmas next week at Mar a Lago. Apparently, Israeli officials are concerned that Iran is reconstituting nuclear enrichment sites after the US Bombed them in June. And also they're concerned that Iran is expanding production of their ballistic missile program after they wiped that out. This is much sooner than anyone thought it would happen. Are you hearing anything about this?

Gordon Chang (35:02)

Well, of course, you know, we had the Trump administration, to its great credit, interdicted that ship in the Indian Ocean that was carrying China missile parts to Iran. So we knew that this was going on. And of course, it's something the Iranians would do. They were just not going to take the raids in, what, it was June as the final answer. So clearly, you know, Iran was always going to do this. China was always going to help them. And President Trump needs to talk about this in public. Mentioning China by name, name. It's good that he's attacking China across the board and stopping them, but he needs to actually say it in public because the American public has to know how dangerous the situation is at this moment.

Mary Walters (35:46)

Yeah. Do you, do you? I think, I think Trump is very friendly towards Israel. I think Trump likes Netanyahu. I think they have a very good relationship. When I was in Israel in August, it was nothing but pro Trump, pro Trump, pro Trump. The Israeli people love him and I think that they see him as a true partner. Do you see President Trump saying, okay, we'll work together on something like this, kind of like we did in June?

Gordon Chang (36:12)

I think that he would because Trump does have the right instincts on Israel. He's done some great things. And matter of fact, Trump's great foreign policy success of this term really has been what he's been able to do with the Gulf states, in other words, with Syria and also with Israel. This is really fantastic diplomacy. And he's not getting, getting enough credit for it by any means.

Mary Walters (36:37)

No, he's never gonna get a credit for it. I think we all know that that's true, too. But never, never going to happen. I think, you know, 15 years down the road, Trump will finally be written in the history books the way he should be. But until then, as long as you have the people who still just hate anything he does and they're still wandering the earth that, you know, they're not gonna be able to handle any kind of truth about President Trump. Gordon Chang, I love getting to talk to you. Thank you so much for taking the time. Merry Christmas to you and your beautiful wife Lydia and have a wonderful new year.

Gordon Chang (37:10)

Well, thank you so much, Mary, and you as well. And stay safe in the new year.

Mary Walters (37:14)

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, we'll talk about that on another time. Okay, thanks, Gordon. We've got more coming up here next hour. Doug Burns, former federal prosecutor, will be joining us. More Epstein files dropping and we're going to delve into that fraud again. There's a lot going on and there's breaking news as we go along as well. So we got our plates full on the Rob Carson Show. Oh, we are back on the ROB Carson Show. I'm Mary Walters sitting in for a fort Rob Corson on a well deserved vacation. He'll be back with you on the 5th. I'll be with you until then. Joining us now on the Newsmax hotline, it's Doug Burns. He is a former Federal prosecutor. You can follow him at Doug Burns Law. That's super easy. Doug Burns, welcome to the Rob Carson Show. Thank you so much for joining me.

Doug Burns (38:17)

My pleasure. Thanks for having me. And I do have an easy name which I actually like.

Mary Walters (38:20)

Yeah, exactly like some of these. But the problem is, the problem is, is you probably couldn't get just Doug Burns because someone already had it.

Doug Burns (38:29)

Exactly right.

Mary Walters (38:30)

Yeah.

Doug Burns (38:30)

No, that's true. When you go for Vanity Place and stuff.

Mary Walters (38:34)

Yeah, it's, it's hard that. That's one thing. The same thing for me. Although everybody puts an S on my last name because of Barbara Walters.

Gordon Chang (38:42)

Okay.

Donald Trump (38:43)

So.

Doug Burns (38:43)

Right, Mary Walter.

Mary Walters (38:44)

Right. I always have to tell everybody there's only one of me. Oh, that's a good one.

Doug Burns (38:49)

Yeah, I like that.

Mary Walters (38:50)

All right, so let's talk a little bit about the Epstein files, if you don't mind. They've released more of the Epstein files. They've released more information. The documents that were dropped today have a statement with them. The DOJ wrote in a statement that the material included, quote, untrue and sensationalist claims, unquote, about Donald Trump. Trump that the FBI received ahead of the 2020 election. And they say, to be clear, the claims are unfounded and false. And if they had a shred of credibility, they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already. They put that out on social media and they added that it published the documents because of its commitment to law and transparency. Is it me or is this just going to be picked up by the left and they're going to run with it and it's just going to be used to, you know, say, I told you, I told you.

Doug Burns (39:42)

Well, no question about it, Mary. I mean, every single iteration of this thing, you know, is just an intense, intense, you know, one sided argument. I mean, you know, I'm a trial lawyer. So if we're sitting in the conference room talking about this matter, you know, two months ago, every guy in the conference room is going to say, wait a minute, there's an inference here that's just absolutely devastating to the Democratic side of this. And we would say, well, what's that, Jim? You know, hypothetically. Well, they didn't say one word about this case for four years. So you're going to have to convince a jury, there's a hypothetical, convince a jury that they didn't care about this at all for four years and now either A, they've had this big moral revelation and all of the sudden they really care about it, or B, no, no, no, it's just some political charade, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now, on the X's and O's, very important. You heard experts the last few days calmly explaining under the umbrella phrase that I always use, but it's important, and that is that politics and law don't mix. Having been in document productions for decades, myself in many, many, many document production situations of all stripes. The point is there's sort of three areas here that are problematic. Number one, information that could hurt victims. Okay, you know, against the grain of, you know, the left side rhetoric. But I'll repeat it. Information that could hurt a victim should be protected. Number two, grand jury secrecy. You've heard legal experts explain that we have a rule, Rule 6e of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which provides that grand jury material is supposed to be secret. Why is that? Very simple. So they don't have people walking down the street saying, did you hear that Doug Burns is under a grand jury investigation? Okay, we want it to be secret. Okay? So people aren't smeared. Which is a pretty good segue, by the way, with this matter. But before I get to that, the third one is where courts have ruled, district courts, federal courts have ruled that stuff shouldn't be released. So DOJ has to navigate those three main topical areas with respect to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars documents. Now, the left is technically correct, I suppose, which is you didn't produce every single thing. But my decades of experience, I'm here to tell the audience, you know, very often you go back and forth and you say, we just cannot comb through 300,000 documents with respect to those three problematic areas that we talked about, you know, 6D hurting victims, court orders. So we're going to need a little more time. And that's the rule, not the, the exception. Okay? So here, and what's interesting too is, you know, of course, the hypocrisy. You always get that it's like a hair trigger hysterical response. So just go to the law school classroom. Imagine if they produced something that hurt a victim, produced something that clearly contravened grand jury secrecy, or clearly went again against a court order. You'd have Ro Khanna as fast as your head could spin, you know, ranting and raving how they violated in that direction. I mean, so the point is, you know, they got to get a hold of themselves because this thing, A, they never talked about it for four years. And then B, the most overwhelming point of all that they've, all they all missed is that if there were anything and you've heard, you've heard people, you know, repeating this over and over and over. But if I may be slightly immodest, I said this way, way, way, way back. In the analysis of this matter, if there were anything negative that would really hurt Donald Trump, it would have been out long, long, long ago.

Mary Walters (43:17)

Mary, of course, and I say that all the time, and I'm not, I'm not a lawyer, but when it comes especially to the, the rank and file on the left, which I've never been on Blue sky, but it must be akin to trying to have a conversation in the cafeteria of an insane asylum. Right? Because that logic doesn't get through to them. They are so convinced that Donald Trump is evil. Is this, is that. And this was one of their, this was where they really got him. We got him this time. You know, they keep doing that. And to your point, if there's nothing damaging in here, really damaging, they're gonna, they're gonna say, oh, well, they didn't release it. They're protecting him. And I'm like, well, then why didn't Biden release it? Why didn't, well, Biden couldn't do it.

Gordon Chang (44:03)

You know, these people, these people will.

Doug Burns (44:05)

Literally look in a camera. I mean, you want to talk about comical and laughable, they will look in a camera and go, here's a photograph of William Jefferson Clinton with Jeff Epstein. That doesn't mean anything. We don't have guilt by association. And that picture doesn't show that. Now, I agree.

Gordon Chang (44:22)

Hold on.

Doug Burns (44:22)

This is key. I agree with all of that analysis. Then in the next breath they go, but here's a photo with Donald Trump, and he's a pedophile and a criminal.

Mary Walters (44:32)

Right? Right.

Doug Burns (44:34)

I mean, think about that. And by the way, can you imagine, think about this. Can you only imagine if that photo was Trump in that hot tub?

Mary Walters (44:43)

Mary, thank you. I was gonna go there, There he is, hands behind his back, behind his head, lounging in a hot tub with a woman who's just a big black square. She looks like a before picture of what not to wear. You know what I mean? She, you can't see her head, so we don't know who she is. But when a Clinton spokesperson responded to that, the only thing they said was that they, they demanded that the DOJ release all the. That if they didn't, that would confirm that the DOJ was not about transparency but about insinuation.

Doug Burns (45:17)

Yeah, that's a counterspin move, obviously. I know you know that, but it's counterspin in the sense of the average person saying, oh, Clinton, he's calling for more. So obviously what they released doesn't tell the whole story. That's just a nonsensical BS counterspin move. The other point I wanted to make really quick was, what a disgrace to disseminate a photograph of Trump with four women and their faces are in boxes blocked out to make it appear, ostensibly, Mary, that they're somehow underage. And what a disgrace.

Mary Walters (45:49)

But see, but okay, so we're not surprised by this. This is what drives me crazy. And I will tell you, this is why I'm not a registered Republican, because I will not sign up for a team that doesn't fight. How the Republicans don't know that this is what the Democrats do is absolutely shocking to me. It's like they've never seen Charlie Brown try to kick the football and catch on. Right. They're Charlie Brown and they don't play to win. And that drives me crazy. You know, not to change the subject, but just an example, Indiana and the Republicans there, Trump is like, please redistrict the way the Democrats do. Could you please play by the same rules? Like, we're really not going to do that.

Doug Burns (46:30)

Well, you know, jumping around, Mary, if, you know, shift in topics or whatever, if they lose the House. I said this on Monday. Trump's impeached Tuesday.

Gordon Chang (46:40)

You agree with that?

Mary Walters (46:41)

Yep, exactly. 100%. 100%. But I think that there are a lot of Republicans, and we're getting off on a tangent here, but that's okay. I think there are a lot of Republicans that know that that's going to happen and they're fine with it because they've been very happy with the status quo there. There is a lot of money. And I'm convinced that if you audited Congress, all of the problems with money and scams and fraud and the waste and abuse in this country would stop on a dime if you audited Congress. That's where it all comes from. And there are too many people in Congress whose campaigns are being funded by taxpayer money via it going to an NGO that goes to gives it to, you know, a bodega In Minnesota that's 150 square feet, that's cashing in snap cards. And they get, you know, a portion of it's donated to a Democrats campaign. It's rampant. And they want to keep that going.

Gordon Chang (47:35)

Yep.

Doug Burns (47:36)

There's no question there's tons of fraud. I mean, if you look at the difference between the executive branch and Congress just on, like, common sense Xs and o's I mean, you know, one is a situation where people have positions and they make a salary. You know, ostensibly they could make money maybe doing speeches and other things. We'll put that to the side. And then the other one is just a money making enterprise of raising money, you know, supposedly for campaigns. But there's just lots and lots and lots of problems, huge problems like A, the whole insider trading thing where it wasn't technically illegal, and then B, laws that even allowed people to leave with the amounts of money they had on hand. You remember that whole fiasco?

Mary Walters (48:14)

Yeah. It's unbelievable. We have to take a quick break. Coming back, I want to talk to you about Letitia James and James Comey. All right. We're here with Doug Burns on the Newsmax hotline with more coming up on the Rob Carson SHOW show.

Doug Burns (48:28)

Relentlessly slowing the spread of the stupid. Every day, it's the Rob Carson show.

Mary Walters (48:37)

Mary Walter in for Rob Carson. And on the Newsmax hotline, we're joined by Doug Burns. He's a former federal prosecutor. You can find him on X at Doug Burns Law. Follow him. I do. I wanted to talk to you about Letitia James and James Comey. Letitia JAMES Comey and but I also want to ask you about something, a story that just came out yesterday about John Brennan. His lawyers have informed him he's probably he's under investigation, as I think we all probably realize. But his lawyers wrote a letter to U.S. district Judge Cecilia Altanaga, who's the chief judge in the Southern District of Florida. And they say that they're concerned that the justice is trying that the Justice Department is engaged in judge shopping and that they're trying to arrange for the investigation to be retransferred to Judge Eileen Cannon. This is so rich, it's unbelievable.

Doug Burns (49:34)

You know, it's funny because I don't want to be melodramatic, but of all the rich things I've observed, like them coming out in front of the cameras, you know, Letitia James, for example, you know, this is a political case against me. I mean, this one you just cited, Mary, I think takes the case of all time because the point is they've been running to district judges all day long, as we know, with the whole nationwide injunction thing. You know, since they don't have Congress or the White House or the Supreme Court, they go running cherry picking. So that is beyond rich. That's unbelievable.

Mary Walters (50:07)

So let me ask you now, let's talk about Letitia James and James Comey. Why don't Republicans judge shop the Way Democrats do. That's why I found that other story so hilarious. Because Republicans aren't smart enough to judge shop. Why don't they do that? Why do they allow these cases to be just outside of Washington D.C. because.

Doug Burns (50:26)

Of something you just taught me today. And I'm being dead serious because I never really thought about it. Your thesis, your analysis about, you know, not fighting at the same level, on the same level playing field. I think you're 100% right now that I'm thinking about what you just said today. That's the answer. I mean, you know, you look at Judge Engoron and the other Judge Marshawn. I mean, their behavior in those two Trump cases. You know, we've been over this a million times. I don't have to bore everybody repeating it, but my goodness, a case where nobody lost a dime with loans. I mean, are you kidding me? Another case that was an out of time misdemeanor on its best iteration. I mean, just a joke. And the point is, you know, for them to turn around and say it's shopping is ridiculous on Letitia James, Jims and Comey really quick. They're two different animals. And let me explain. Jim Comey first of all, did a lot, a lot of things wrong for which the statutes of limitations have run out. Okay? My good friend Greg Jarrett from Fox News Channel wrote the book the Russia Hoax. I'm not plugging his book. But the point is, you know, that book lays it all out. And they really, really, really did infect, you know, weaponized the doj, weaponize the FBI. They did it for good reason because those are prestigious institutions that everybody has a lot of, you know, respect and awe for. And it's like, oh my God, if the FBI says this, you know, geez. And it was a disgrace. And the point is, we were, you know, urinating in the wind as we legal experts who I guess you could loosely call conservative. But I don't really consider myself a conservative legal expert. I consider myself a true down the middle legal expert. And the point of the matter is that we were saying that it was weaponization and everybody was just hysterically canceling and laughing at us and shouting us down, as they did with COVID as they did with the vaccines, the same old thing. And so the point is, this was their playbook. They were pretty successful with it. But now when the history books are written in 50 years. I've said this many times, Mary. When the history books are written in 50 years, there is absolutely no question whatsoever that DOJ and the FBI were completely, totally and thoroughly weaponized improperly and illegally against Trump.

Mary Walters (52:39)

Yeah, no. 100%. I have about a minute here.

Gordon Chang (52:43)

Sure.

Mary Walters (52:44)

Do we ever see anyone go to jail?

Doug Burns (52:47)

Probably not. Although Brennan is certainly at the top of the list because he really lied about the inclusion of the Steele dossier material in those intelligence reports. And he lied, and a judge could give him six months in the can. We see.

Mary Walters (53:02)

So disappointing. And this is why, this is why I think, I think American people, especially conservatives, are just like, what's the point? Why, why do I need to go vote? Why do I vote in the middle? What is the point of any of this? It's all rigged. The game's rigged there. I'm just here to work for the government so that they can line their pockets and nobody goes to jail but me.

Doug Burns (53:19)

Exactly right. And it's, it's, you know, the cynicism is warranted on many, many, many levels. But, you know, I think, I think conservatives, Republicans have to be extremely concerned about the midterm situation. My opinion.

Mary Walters (53:33)

No, I agree. I agree. And we got to get, we got to get Republicans out to vote. And unfortunately, they're not big midterm voters, so that's, that's a big problem as well. Doug Burns, I could talk to you for, like, half an hour. So thank you so much. I appreciate. You have a great Christmas. A Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year. And thank you for joining us. Me.

Doug Burns (53:54)

My pleasure, Mary. Take care.

Mary Walters (53:55)

All right, we're going to wrap it up here on the Rob Carson Show.