Pastors, Protesters & Pending Perp Walks

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Pastors, Protesters & Pending Perp Walks" — The Rob Carson Show

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Rob Carson (with Doug Burns)
Podcast: The Rob Carson Show, Newsmax Radio

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a recent high-profile incident where activists, allegedly led by Don Lemon, disrupted a worship service at a church in St. Paul, Minnesota, to protest against ICE agents and support Renee Good, a woman killed in an ICE-related incident. Carson and guest Doug Burns dive into the constitutional, legal, and cultural implications of this event, drawing parallels with past civil rights abuses and fiercely debating the boundaries of protest versus protected religious practice.

The episode is heavy on analysis, legal commentary, and Rob Carson’s signature blend of humor and political critique, interspersed with actual audio clips from involved figures and news coverage.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Church Protest and Immediate Reactions

(00:24 — 02:28)

• Carson and Burns react with outrage at activists invading a church during worship.
  • Doug Burns: "It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship." (00:28)
• Carson likens the event to KKK tactics, suggesting a historical echo of religious persecution linked to political motives.
• Don Lemon is accused of actively endorsing and participating in the protest, rather than objectively reporting.

Notable Quote

• Rob Carson: "This is the kind of thing that the KKK did in the Jim Crow South... And here they did it in Minnesota, and it has got pastors around the country really hacked off." (00:54)

2. Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom to Protest

(02:29 — 04:35)

• The conversation moves into First Amendment territory: balancing freedom of religion with freedom to assemble/protest.
• Burns and Carson argue that the activists’ actions cross a line by disrupting religious practice rather than protesting outside.

Notable Quote

• Doug Burns: "In this case, clearly the freedom of religion, having a sanctuary where you can worship, is not usurped by someone coming in and screaming and disrupting that service." (23:07)

3. Don Lemon’s Role & Media Coverage

(03:56 — 09:49, 14:41 — 15:08)

• Carson plays audio clips allegedly of Don Lemon both before and after the event, presenting Lemon as first endorsing the protest and then denying involvement.
  • Rob Carson: "Don Lemon wasn't being a journalist. He was encouraging it." (12:08)
• Discussion of media framing—Carson and Burns claim mainstream coverage downplays or misrepresents the incident.
• Carson references the FACE Act (Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act) and calls for DOJ investigations.

Notable Quote

• Rob Carson: “If you remember what the Civil Rights movement was about... the KKK stormed churches and burned them down... They were Democrats, by the way.” (04:18)

4. Legal Fallout and Potential Charges

(09:49 — 11:09, 21:28 — 24:05, 27:51 — 28:10)

• Harmeet Dhillon (civil rights attorney, paraphrased and quoted) outlines possible federal charges against the protesters.
  • Use of FACE Act and Klan Act as legal tools—usually applied for abortion clinic protests—may be considered here.
• Doug Burns elaborates on conspiracy law and possible criminal exposure for the protesters and supportive politicians.

Notable Quotes

• Harmeet Dhillon (via Carson): “The Klan Act can be used to bring a conspiracy charge... a number of tools available to us.” (09:49)
• Doug Burns: “Definitely criminal exposure for that type of conduct.” (22:19)

5. Politicians, Law Enforcement, and Insurrection Act

(14:03 — 18:48, 26:10 — 27:51)

• Discussion of Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry’s public statements resisting federal immigration enforcement.
  • Potential DOJ investigation into whether these officials have impeded justice.
• Debate: Could Trump send federal troops? Is the Insurrection Act applicable?
  • Doug Burns: “Trump technically does have the authority... I don't think he will in this instance, though.” (26:39)

Notable Exchanges

• Jacob Fry, as quoted: “The second these ICE agents leave the city, you’re gonna have calm in Minneapolis...” (18:48)
• Doug Burns: “…engaging in the type of rhetoric that they've been engaging in, they are getting perilously close to that right side of the continuum... they should be very careful.” (28:10)

6. Broader Political and Cultural Context

(18:48 — 20:59, 35:47 — 37:12)

• Carson rails against perceived double standards—Democrats vs. Republicans—citing the 2020 riots and responses to federal subpoenas.
• Speculation about grand conspiracy charges and the possibility of a two-tier justice system.
• Carson predicts political repercussions and frames the situation as symptomatic of deeper social divides.

Notable Quote

• Rob Carson: “If it weren't for double standards, Democrats would have none at all.” (35:25)
• Rob Carson: “The left side stuff is not resonating with people nearly as much as they may think.” (36:42)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes With Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote or Event | |-----------|---------|----------------| | 00:28 | Doug Burns | "It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship." | | 00:54 | Rob Carson | “This is the kind of thing that the KKK did in the Jim Crow South... and here they did it in Minnesota.” | | 05:34 | Doug Burns | "You are in a bleep load of trouble... What you've done there is inexcusable. You do not do that in a church." | | 09:00 | Rob Carson | "That is complete BS. First of all, I had no idea who the organization was until I arrived this morning." (playing Lemon's post-protest denial) | | 11:09 | Doug Burns | "I've been talking about giving the children a spanking for years now, since 2020. And now it has to happen." | | 23:07 | Doug Burns | "In this case, clearly the freedom of religion, having a sanctuary where you can worship, is not usurped by someone coming in and screaming and disrupting that service." | | 24:24 | Rob Carson | "Local cities are telling business owners, if ICE comes on to this parking lot... call 911." (quoting Angie Craig) | | 26:39 | Doug Burns | "Trump technically does have the authority to do it. I don't think he will in this instance..." | | 35:25 | Rob Carson | "If it weren't for double standards, Democrats would have none at all.” | | 36:42 | Rob Carson | “…the left side stuff is not resonating with people nearly as much as they may think." |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Discussion of Church Protest Incident: 00:24 — 05:56
• Don Lemon’s Role and Audio Clips: 03:56 — 09:49
• Legal Analysis of Protest and Charges: 09:49 — 11:09; 21:28 — 24:05
• Politicians and Insurrection Act Debate: 14:03 — 18:48; 26:10 — 27:51
• Broader Political/Cultural Commentary: 18:48 — 20:59; 35:47 — 37:12

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Conclusion

This episode of The Rob Carson Show delivers a charged reaction to current culture-war flashpoints, specifically church protests around immigration issues and the apparent blurring of lines between activism and protected religious space. Carson and Burns make strong legal and moral condemnations of the activists and politicians involved, framing the controversy as emblematic of wider issues such as selective law enforcement, media bias, and American political polarization.

Anyone seeking insights into the right-of-center view of these events will find this episode a comprehensive and emotional rundown, studded with pointed legal analysis, sharp-edged humor, and soundbites from both allies and adversaries.

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For listeners seeking discussion on the church protest controversy, First Amendment rights, and the broader debate on protest tactics and government response, this episode is a vivid and sharply opinionated entry point.

Transcript

[Rob Carson]

Hold it.

[Doug Burns]

Now.

[Rob Carson]

You are about to hear the most interesting, informative, thought provoking and funny show in America on air and on the World Wide Web. This is the Rob Carson show.

[Doug Burns]

It is a Rob Carson show.

[Rob Carson]

What do you think of it? I mean, this is unacceptable. It's shameful.

[Doug Burns]

It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.

[Rob Carson]

But there were folks who will say.

[Doug Burns]

I have to take care of my flock.

[Rob Carson]

Listen, we live in a. There's a constitution in the First Amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest.

[Doug Burns]

We're here to worship. We're here to worship Jesus because that's the hope of these cities, that's the hope of the world, is Jesus Christ.

[Rob Carson]

I'm going to be very respectful.

[Doug Burns]

Please don't push me, though.

[Rob Carson]

We're here.

[Doug Burns]

We're here to worship Jesus. That's why we're here. Okay? That's why we're here. That's what we're about. Lemon is in a whole lot of trouble and so are the people who invaded a church church yesterday in St. Paul, Minnesota. I was made aware of this yesterday as watching the news progress throughout the day. And I mentioned that this is the kind of thing that the KKK did in the Jim Crow south, which of course was Democrats. And here they did it in Minnesota, and it has got pastors around the country really hacked off. Yesterday, Don Lemon joined an anti ICE protest, storming a Minnesota church service in chaotic scenes as stunned pastor blasts. Unacceptable stunt. It is unacceptable. And Don Lemon was down with it. Completely down with it. Here he is talking to a radical Black Lives Matter leader because they want to make this Renee good into George Floyd 2.0, a liberal Karen who tried to run over an ICE officer and was justifiably killed. Here he is talking to Nekhaima Levy Armstrong, an activist, and again, these guys are in a whole lot of hot water.

[Rob Carson]

Tell us why you're doing this. This is Operation Pull up, more of a clandestine operation. We show up. So somewhere that is a key location. They don't expect us to come there and then we disrupt business as usual. So that's what we're about to go do, right?

[Doug Burns]

You just pissed off, I don't know, couple hundred million Christians. I'm going to say that right now. There were children in the church, by.

[Rob Carson]

The way, demanding justice for Renee.

[Doug Burns]

I don't know if you knew this. I'll just tell you real quick here. And welcome to the show. By the way, the First Amendment also protects freedom of religion and letting them.

[Rob Carson]

Know that this will not stand.

[Doug Burns]

They cannot. They went in because they heard maybe a pastor or somebody in the congregation worked for ice, pretend to be a.

[Rob Carson]

House of God while harboring someone who.

[Doug Burns]

Is directing ICE agents to wreak havoc upon our. You're going to go to jail community. And who killed Renee Good?

[Rob Carson]

Who almost killed a six month old baby?

[Doug Burns]

Y' all not tired of this temper tantrum? Y' all ready for maybe 1500 troops to go into. Was into Minneapolis and. And. And spank the children. Spank the petulant children who've caused so much damage to our country, so much damage to Minneapolis. And the idiots in charge of Minneapolis more than willing to let it burn again. I would imagine a good share of the people who live in Minneapolis. I used to live in Minneapolis. They see these old neighborhoods. I used to drive around and I lived in south Minneapolis and uptown. And it is a crap hole. It is a Mogadisho to the revenge. And then yesterday they just blew it, man. They crossed a line. They charged a congregation in a church and terrified them. They charged a congregation of Christians and they terrified them. Are you out of your mind? And here is Don Lemon before. Now he's claiming that, oh, I didn't do it. I'm just being a journalist. This is him before.

[Rob Carson]

This is the beginning of what's going to happen here.

[Doug Burns]

When you violate people's due process.

[Rob Carson]

When you pull people off the street and you start dragging them and hurting.

[Doug Burns]

Them and is this journalism and not.

[Rob Carson]

Abiding by the Constitution?

[Doug Burns]

This is a congregation that has nothing to do with what they're opposing. Start doing all of that, people get upset and angry.

[Rob Carson]

If you remember what the Civil Rights movement was about.

[Doug Burns]

So ironic. He's the Civil Rights movement. The KKK stormed churches and burned them down. Burned churches, burned crosses. They. They burned crosses. They were Democrats, by the way. They're all Democrats of the kkk. Nathan Bedford Force was a democr. Democrats. They love their slavery. You see, they were pissed off that the Republicans kicked their butts and it made them rejoin the union and got rid of Slavery's movement was about these.

[Rob Carson]

Very kinds of protests. For some reason in our modern era, people think that in order to have protests you got to be, you know, cordoned off to a certain area.

[Doug Burns]

And this is Don Lemon literally endorsing what they're doing. This isn't journalism.

[Rob Carson]

You know what time you can protest?

[Doug Burns]

There's nothing in the Constitution that tells.

[Rob Carson]

You what time you can protest. You can protest at any time. That's the whole point of it is to disrupt, to make uncomfortable. And that's what they're doing. And that's what I believe when I say everyone has to be willing to sacrifice something. You have to make people uncomfortable in these times. If you.

[Doug Burns]

Okay.

[Rob Carson]

Oh, man.

[Doug Burns]

Son, you were in a bleep load of trouble. You are in a bleep load of trouble. What you've done there is inexcusable. I don't care what congregation you belong to. You do not do that in a church. Unbelievable. Here is one of the many pastors in America who heard about this event and said no mas.

[Rob Carson]

Today in Minneapolis, Minnesota, a group of activists led by Don Lemon stormed a Baptist church by the name of city's church. During their worship time, they were screaming and chanting, disrupting the singing and the preaching, because they suspected an ICE officer may attend the church. This is a violation of what is known as the Face Act. And not only do we condemn this act, but tonight I want to demand that the Department of Justice investigate what took place in Minneapolis, apprehend those who.

[Doug Burns]

Broke the law, and arrest them accordingly. We must protect religious liberty in this country. As people meet to worship God, they.

[Rob Carson]

Have been given legally the right to enter, to worship and to leave their place of worship. The Lord Jesus said, in the world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer.

[Doug Burns]

I have overcome the world. I have preached for many years that.

[Rob Carson]

There will come a time when we'll find out who are Christians by label and by convenience and who are Christians by conviction. And certainly we're in.

[Doug Burns]

That is our sanctuary. That is our peace. That is our connection. That is our place to talk to God. How dare you do this? Oh, God, you must pay for what you've done. You must, must, must pay for what you have done. Here is Don Lemon talking to congregants who just went in to pray and worship on a Sunday morning. And these jackasses are trying to force their views, which, by the way, are communist and Marxist and wrong, down the throats of congregates who have nothing to do with it. I don't necessarily agree with everything that's going on in the Twin Cities right now, but I don't think it's good.

[Rob Carson]

To fight fire with fire.

[Doug Burns]

I think it's good to speak up. I think it's good to protest, but I think it's better to do it in a peaceful way. I don't think the answer is going to go listen to them shrieking in the back church. You don't think this is peaceful? Well, it's trespassing. Nobody fighting. It's trespassing. How would you feel if I went to your house and I started yelling? It depends on what I did. But not in my house.

[Rob Carson]

That's a whole different thing.

[Doug Burns]

I think these people would go inside of anybody's house. This is the house of God, which.

[Rob Carson]

Makes it everybody's house. Yes, it is.

[Doug Burns]

But in the house, people don't yell at each other. Yeah, there's a lot of yelling in my house. Growing up, we still loved each other. Oh, that's okay, then. You can go into a church and harass and terrify people. Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that yelling is the answer, right? Oh, Donnie, Donnie, Donnie, Donnie, Donnie, Donnie. I hope you sleep on the top bunk when you're in prison. Honestly, here is Don Lemon denying afterwards that he had anything to do this, even though. Oh, you know what? I just played for fake right wing.

[Rob Carson]

Propaganda news alert from this supposed right angle news network supposed network that I led a protest into a church this morning in Minneapolis. That is complete bs. First of all, I had no idea who the organization was until I arrived this morning.

[Doug Burns]

And you interviewed them and you supported them, and then you went into the church and you said why you were there. And number two, that's what everybody. Every journalist should be doing. Exactly what I'm not a journalist. I did.

[Rob Carson]

What I did was report, chronicle, and commit an act of journalism, which is what every journalist should be doing.

[Doug Burns]

That's what happened.

[Rob Carson]

So if you really want to know.

[Doug Burns]

The truth about what happened, why don't you check it out at the Don.

[Rob Carson]

Lemon show on YouTube?

[Doug Burns]

I already did it. I actually displayed it right there. Made it very clear. Harmeet Dillon says that old Donnie and all of the people who went into that church are in a lot of trouble.

[Rob Carson]

Two charges in this case, I see various crimes that have occurred. Exactly what they are, I'm not going to flag. But the Face act has been mentioned as one of the predicates there. In other cases, the Biden DOJ used the Klan Act. Conspiracy charges tacked on to the Face act in the case of protests outside abortion clinics to bring much longer sentences. So there are a number of tools available to us. Who funded this. What else? What other crimes may have occurred? Was there a use of the wires or the mails in preparing for this event? Did anyone cross state lines to do this? All of those are potential predicates for additional federal charges. The Klan act can be used to bring a conspiracy charge. We, in the federal law enforcement Parlance Call this 241 and 242 civil and criminal conspiracies. And so what the Biden administration did is if three grandmas got together to pray outside an abortion clinic for the souls of the people inside and including unborn children, they would say, oh, that's not just a violation of the Klan act. That's a conspiracy to violate the civil rights of women going in there to get abortions. And so we're going to add additional charges and punish that more and make it from a misdemeanor under the Face act to a felony under the Klan Act.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, I think we've had enough. I've been talking about giving the children a spanking for years now, since 2020. And now it has to happen. And I look forward to Donald Trump bringing the 1600 troops trained for Arctic combat to come in and end freaking nonsense. The Democrat Party wants another Kent State. They're not going to get it, but they are going to end this nonsense because I'm going to tell you, all this is going to do is just get worse. They want to make this go through the summer into the fall, just like they did in 2020, but it's not going to work. We got a lot of stuff on the show to do today. Doug Burns is going to join us on the show. Brigitte Gabriel is going to join us on the show to talk about Iran and other things. The number here is 800-922-6680. This is the Rob Carson Show. It is a Rob Carson Show. It's Martin Luther King Day, Jr. Right, Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Nobody's at work here where I am. Just me. Hello? Hello? Hello? Is anyone here?

[Rob Carson]

Here, here, here.

[Doug Burns]

I kind of like it, actually. I kind of like it. I like people, don't get me wrong, but kind of nice to have a little quiet. Capitol Hill is going to be kind of shut down today. And of course, you know, banks and the Dow and all that stuff and the stock market and all that. So, anyway, happy MLK Day. A lot of stuff going on. Ironically, Democrats raided a church in Minneapolis St. Paul and disrupted a worship service because they're Marxists who don't believe in God. And they decided it was a good idea. And they're in a buttload of trouble, by the way. And Don Lemon was there. Don Lemon wasn't being a journalist. He was encouraging it. The protest grabbed the attention of Caroline Levitt says President Trump will not tolerate the intimidation and harassment of Christians in their sacred place of worship. The Department of Justice has Launched a full investigation into the despicable incident that took place earlier yesterday in Minnesota. Harmony Dylan is all over. It looks like there could be lots and lots of charges. Minneapolis Star Tribune editorial board wrote that Minnesota is under siege and compared the situation to in Minneapolis to a military occupation there. They're fomenting a civil war up there and they need to have their rear ends kicked. Leave it up to the federal authorities legally. By the way, Jake Tapper was told by Jacob Fry that the city is under siege, occupied. And by the way, now the Justice Department is looking into Tim Wurz and Jacob Fry for impeding justice up there. There you go. It's kind of funny because Tim Wurz last year said that, oh, you know, there's a real possibility that ICE could invade churches and that would be the greatest thing that could ever happen. It would be the worst thing that could ever happen. It would like Nazis invading it. But he had no problem with this yesterday. So I would fully expect, and we.

[Rob Carson]

Are preparing for an influx of more.

[Doug Burns]

Agents, more of the very visible public.

[Rob Carson]

Theatrics of the raids, of the harassments, and you got faith leaders here. I would not put it past this administration to target midnight mass services amongst folks going to worship, because that's who they are.

[Doug Burns]

Well, I got to tell you, I can't wait till I see him frog marked out of the. Out of the governor's mansion with his hands behind his back, handcuffed. Un, un, un, un. Unbelievable. This is Don Lemon yesterday talking to a congregant, a very smart man, by the way. Here it is.

[Rob Carson]

These people have come into our house and they've interrupted our worship.

[Doug Burns]

This is House of Peace and we.

[Rob Carson]

Try to proclaim that. And this stirs division and rancor, and in the end, it's not helpful. Ultimately, I believe they've lost. They've emptied a house of worship. Everybody'. Their point has been proven worthless. And so in the end, I think they lose.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, you did. And hopefully some of you are going to go to jail. Here is cbs, cbs, the only, the only letter network that covered what happened yesterday at the church. And also largely the charges against Tim Waltz that they could be facing and Jacob Fry. Meanwhile, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, under growing.

[Rob Carson]

Pressure with the Justice Department, investigating whether.

[Doug Burns]

He and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz have.

[Rob Carson]

Been impeding immigration enforcement. According to a senior law enforcement official and a person familiar with the matter.

[Doug Burns]

To have a federal government targeting people.

[Rob Carson]

Simply because of the speech they are using.

[Doug Burns]

This is stuff that happens in other.

[Rob Carson]

Countries, shouldn't happen in America.

[Doug Burns]

Governor Walls posting the only person not.

[Rob Carson]

Being investigated for the shooting of Renee Good is the federal agent who shot her. The DOJ also investigating whether Rebecca Good.

[Doug Burns]

The partner of the Minneapolis woman killed earlier this month. Becca could be in trouble. Tell impeded the ICE officer who shot her. Though Rebecca Good's lawyer says there's been.

[Rob Carson]

No contact from the FBI or federal.

[Doug Burns]

Just wait. Somebody will be knocking on your door here one of these days.

[Rob Carson]

Officials to Ms. Good indicating she is the subject of an investigation. The deputy attorney general asked if the.

[Doug Burns]

DOJ is investigating the shooting itself.

[Rob Carson]

We don't just go out and investigate.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah.

[Rob Carson]

Every time an officer is forced to defend himself.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah. No, he was just. There are no charges going to be filed, by the way.

[Rob Carson]

Not invest.

[Doug Burns]

Better get used to it.

[Rob Carson]

Getting on the ground. Tensions rising yesterday. Protesters interrupting a service at a church where they say an ICE employee serves as a pastor. Renee, The Justice Department now says it's looking into the incident.

[Doug Burns]

Absolutely. Every single one of them. Every single one of them need to get arrested. Here is Abby Phillips. It's interesting I was noticing this weekend, how is it on CNN the dumbest person in the group gets to be the show? That's the way it is with Abby Phillips. I mean, not exactly the brightest. And there's Scott Jennings over here rolling his eyes every time she says something because she's so ungodly wrong. You want to hear a prime example? You want to hear a great example? I'm going to play the audio of her denying that they're fomenting a civil war and then actually hearing audio from Tim Holtz actually fomenting. And I guess using the Civil War in Gettysburg as an example. And look, based on their public statements.

[Rob Carson]

It'S pretty clear that that. And based on the statements of officials at doj, it's pretty clear there is concern that these two guys have used.

[Doug Burns]

Their positions and their public statements to try to Tim fault and Jacob Fry.

[Rob Carson]

Obstruct the execution of federal laws. Now, whether that rises to a crime, I don't. Give me an example. Yeah. Where's that clarity? Well, I mean, I think they've both made numerous public statements that have made it perfectly clear that they do not want federal laws to be enforced in Minnesota.

[Doug Burns]

Okay. I think it was Abby Phillips because she doesn't pay any attention or. Or have any journalistic curiosity, is clueless or just lying.

[Rob Carson]

And they.

[Doug Burns]

They flatly said they don't want ICE there enforcing federal immigration laws. They have literally both said ICE leave Minnesota. In fact, Tim Wall said we're on the third day of Gettysburg.

[Rob Carson]

At one point.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, listen to this.

[Rob Carson]

He did not say that.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, he did. When things looked really bleak. It was Minnesota's first that held that.

[Rob Carson]

Line for the nation on that July 3, 1863.

[Doug Burns]

And I think now we may be.

[Rob Carson]

In that moment that the nation's looking.

[Doug Burns]

To us to hold the line on democracy. Be careful what you wish for, Tim A. Be careful what you wish for. Temay here is Jacob Fry literally saying they'll stop the violence when ICE leave.

[Rob Carson]

If the goal here is to create peace and safety and calm, there's a very clear antidote here which is leave the second these ICE agents leave the city. I'm telling you, you're gonna have calm in Minneapolis and you will continue to see the great comeback that we had been. No experience.

[Doug Burns]

You weren't. Let us get back to that comeback. Let us live in now. You made the Minneapolis into a freaking third world hellhole. I know this. I used to live there when it was actually a good place to live. And of course, Christy Gnomes said yesterday, yeah, we're not stopping. In fact, if anything, we're going to send in more troops. Hopefully those, those troops that Donald Trump is considering sending in will get done here very soon. We, we shall see. But on the way we got Doug Burns. Doug Boynes is going to join us on the radio program and he's going to talk about this. He's going to talk about the Clintons ignoring a subpoena. If the congress is actually going to do something about it, maybe put him behind bars, who knows? Who knows? Hey guys, it's Carson for Shopify. You know, for years I have had a swag line of T shirts with catchy phrases and whatnot and it's just been lying there. Well, I've decided to go with Shopify and actually make money with my own business. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household names to first time business owners just getting started. Choose from hundreds of beautiful templates you can customize to match your brand. Instead of just having a lousy website that nobody notices like I have been doing for years. Set up fast with Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines. Create email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they scroll. In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com Newsmax go to shopify.com Newsmax make building a successful business. Your 2026 New Year's resolution.

[Rob Carson]

One of the predicates there. In other cases, the Biden DOJ used the Klan act. Conspiracy charges tacked on to the face act in the case of protests outside abortion clinics to bring much longer stuff sentences. So there are a number of tools available to us. Who funded this, what else? What other crimes may have occurred? Was there a use of the wires or the mails in preparing for this event? Did anyone cross state lines to do this? All of those are potential predicates for additional federal charges.

[Doug Burns]

Now, that is Harmony Dillon talking about Don Lemon and the BLM brigade, I guess, entering a church sanctuary in St. Paul, Minnesota, and terrifying the. The parishioners. And I immediately went, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is uncharted territory. We haven't seen this since J. Jim Crow and the KKK busted into churches and they always chose to burn crosses. You ever notice that? They always turn to burn crosses, which shows they're not on the side of God. I didn't expect this to come up knowing that Doug Burns was going to be on the show today, but it's a part of the mix today. Doug Burns, how you doing on this glorious Martin Luther King Jr. Day?

[Rob Carson]

Good, Rob, thank you.

[Doug Burns]

So what do you think about this group of anarchists going into a church and interrupting the worship service and terrifying the parishioners yesterday?

[Rob Carson]

Well, it's absolutely horrific behavior. And it also implicates criminal liability, for sure. You know, there's all kinds of statutes that can be used narrowly or broadly, you know, for this type of conduct. And then obviously you go right into the standard, you know, shoe on the other foot formulations. So that if this were done by, you know, an alleged white supremacist, you know, in a minority church, you'd have everybody on Ms. Now, you know, pontificating about how this statute and the other statute clearly applies. But the simple conclusion, real simple English, is definitely criminal exposure for that type of conduct.

[Doug Burns]

So you've got a couple of things involved with the First Amendment. One of them is freedom of expression. The other one is freedom of religion.

[Rob Carson]

Religion, right.

[Doug Burns]

In this case, clearly the freedom of religion having a sanctuary where you can worship is not usurped by someone coming in and screaming and disrupting that service.

[Rob Carson]

There's no question about it. That's exactly the point. Exactly what I was saying somebody pointed out earlier, and I hadn't remembered this, and it's kind of a trivia point that, you know, know, you think that the first right in the First Amendment is speech. It's actually religion. So I have to go back to the text, you know, joking aside.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Carson]

And I guess it's listed first, you know, no great significance to that legally. But the fact of the matter is that's a very, very, very important constitutional right. Obviously, the free exercise of your chosen religion, free from, you know, harassment, you know, and criminal conduct. And it's disgraceful. You know, Don Lemon is just a disgrace. And it is what it is.

[Doug Burns]

This is Democrat Representative Angie Craig, and I would love to know your thoughts on this. I clearly, I know this is illegal. I've heard others say this illegal, but she's suggesting that Minneapolis residents call 911 on federal ICE agents in Minnesota.

[Rob Carson]

We see with our own eyes and we love our neighbors, we protect our neighbors. Rev. I was doing a number of immigrant owned business tours yesterday across Minnesota, and one of the things that we're seeing right now is our local cities are telling business owners, if ICE comes on to this parking lot, if ICE comes in to your business, call 91 1. We're going to send out local police to try to de escalate ice. We are in a circumstance in our.

[Doug Burns]

Country, I got to tell you, that just immediately sent all sorts of red flags. You cannot have local authorities, law enforcement, called out on federal law enforcement that have every right there to enforce federal immigration law.

[Rob Carson]

Well, the key is every right. So the point is these people, interestingly enough, get some legal advice. So whether it was Mark Kelly who said, you know, you can disregard unlawful orders, that's technically true, or the judge recently who's trying to stem ice, and the reality is that the judge's ruling was, you know, ICE can't interrupt lawful protests. Well, guess what, Rob? We already knew that. I already knew that as a lawyer. Okay, so they're being cute. So here, if you say if you see ICE with nothing more. With nothing more, I'm adding that if you see ice, that's her quote, and I'm adding, with Nothing more, call 911. She could probably be arrested for that, in my opinion.

[Doug Burns]

I hope so. Brother is, I'm sorry, real quick.

[Rob Carson]

The point is, the correct language obviously, is if you see ice, you know, violating the law or violating somebody's rights, I'm very surprised that you wasn't intelligent enough to give that formulation. If you see ice with nothing more, call 91 1. That's disgraceful.

[Doug Burns]

Well, the, generally, the, the sign of a lack of intelligence is a D in front of your name there. Yeah, D is for dumb. D is for Democrat. All right, so what about this insurrection act, the possibility Donald Trump sending in troops. Apparently 1500 troops have been asked to stand by in case they need to be sent in, because this clearly is not a peaceful protest. It is a disruption of federal law enforcement. Tell me a little bit about that. What do you think?

[Rob Carson]

Of course. Well, it's all characterizations, as usual. So, in other words, if you can characterize it correctly, in my view, on many levels, characterize it as some type of armed rebellion or some type of insurrection. Hang an immediate footnote to the way they defined insurrection. Excuse me, vis a vis January 6th. Again, the amnesia is just breathtaking. But the point is, if it's an armed rebellion or some type of insurrection, then the president can use the military. Now, of course, the left jumps right in. They heard this little dopey phrase, the Posse Comitatus act, like little Mattel wind up dolls. They repeat it. But the Posse Comitatus act, joking aside, says that you can't use the military for domestic law enforcement. But the point is, you've heard me explain a million times on your show and elsewhere that if, on the other hand, you're protecting federal assets, protecting federal buildings, protecting federal personnel, then that's not local enforcement. So the bottom line, conclusion, in my view, quickly, is Trump technically does have the authority to do it. I don't think he will in this instance, though I don't think it'll necessarily be necessary.

[Doug Burns]

All right, well, we will see also the DOJ investigating Tim Voltz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry over conspiracy to impede immigration agents. And if you've heard what they say, if you've heard what they've encouraged, I would say that there's a real good chance that there is evidence that they are doing such a thing. Thing.

[Rob Carson]

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean, the point is, they're treading on very thin ice. There's a continuum, as we've discussed so many times, and I'm glad we did, because for the listeners, it's important. The continuum, very simple, is that on the left, which is in the good zone, okay, you may not necessarily have to cooperate with federal law enforcement, that's fine. But on the right of the continuum is you're impeding, you're interfering, you're blocking them. Comes to mind. The judge in Massachusetts, the judge in Wisconsin, they're letting defendants walk in out the back door when ICE is there to effectuate an arrest. So the point is, when these guys engage in the type of rhetoric that they've been engaging in, they are getting perilously close to that right side of the continuum I'm laying out. And they should be very careful. And then comes the other bad news for them, which is the old, you know, you created the new rules so you better be prepared on some level at least to be living by them. And the new rules are, you know, the laws of conspiracy an aiding and abetting. I was telling my wife, it's amazing for the armchair researchers. 18 United States Code, Section 2, when we see that in an indictment, you won't believe this. You're going to hear a jury instruction, ladies and gentlemen, even if you find that this defendant didn't commit the crime, if you find that he assisted the others in their commission, he is guilty as a principal as though he did it himself. You know how tough it is as defense counsel to sit through that. So the point is, if you want to push on envelopes as they did on steroids times 10 against Trump with their whole lawfare scenario, you have conspiracy laws. Okay, real quick. Conspiracy is an agreement to do a crime and somebody takes one step toward it.

[Doug Burns]

Yes.

[Rob Carson]

Even if the crime is not committed, you're guilty of conspiracy.

[Doug Burns]

Yes. I love it when you cite statutes and back them up. I swear to God, Doug, that is the best stuff ever, man.

[Rob Carson]

Thank you. Now, I know you love and I know you're going to go start looking up 18 USC sections too.

[Doug Burns]

Now. Man, you I don't need to because you said the light. You got the last word, brother. I don't need to second guess you. I want to cover Clinton's and not showing up, not honoring the subpoena to appear on the other side of the break. Let's take a break and come back more with Doug Burns after this on the Rob Carson Show. Hey, guys, it's Carson for Relief Factor. You know, one of the most rewarding parts of sharing Relief Factor with you is all the real stories like science, she tells us. I'd been hearing about Relief Factor on the radio for a couple of years, finally decided to try it because nothing else has helped my back pain. With a three week quick start, I went for it. Now I feel like a new person. Those are Sandra's own words. And it's just so gratifying to hear. I've experienced that kind of relief myself. And knowing folks like Sandra out there are feeling better makes it all worth it. Try it for yourself with a three week quick start. See how Relief Factor could be a game changer, too. Call 800 for relief. That's 800 for relief or go to relieffactor.com that's relieffactor.com how will it feel to be out of pain?

[Rob Carson]

The Rob Carson show podcast is everywhere. Go to newsmax.com listen for details. And we're back with our breaking news in our new national lead.

[Doug Burns]

A source tells CNN that the Justice.

[Rob Carson]

Department is now investigating Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry and Minnesota Governor Tim Walsh. Let's get straight to CNN anchor and chief White House correspondent Caitlin Collins. Caitlin, what exactly are they being investigated for?

[Doug Burns]

Okay, so there's Jake Tapper frustrated instead of just being a damn journalist. He's never been a journalist. He's frustrated that, that Jacob Fry and Tim mired in fraud in Minnesota, waist deep in fraud in Minnesota. And of course, as Minneapolis, they try to ignite Minneapolis again. But you can't burn charcoal. I mean, you can burn it, it's going to smold it. You can't burn ashes. I should say the Ashes of 2020. But they want to do it again. I think it's all a distraction from, you know, obviously the fraud in the state and obviously fear that they're going to get a, I'll just say a rectal exam from the doj. That is coming too. That's a good way to start the break, isn't it? Doug Byrd?

[Rob Carson]

Well, Jake, they're investigating whether or not they interfered with federal law enforcement. Any other questions? Jake?

[Doug Burns]

Yeah, if you're frustrated because they're on your team, then you know, sorry, you're not a friggin journalist. Honestly, just, just ridiculous. Ridiculous. So Jonathan Turley says the Clintons dare the House to hold them in criminal contempt. Will it work? There was a time when subpoenas were viewed as more than discretionary matters. Counsel had insisted that the testimony, testimony is unnecessary and distraction. However, that is not ground that any court would view as justification for knowingly and repeatedly ignoring a issued subpoena. President Joe Biden maintained the defying subpoenas cannot be tolerated. When the subpoenas were issued to Republicans during the House January 6 investigation, Biden declared, I hope that the committee goes after them and holds them accountable. Criminally. Of course, we know Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro ended up going to jail for the that 2021, Hillary Clinton mocked Bannon's indictment for contempt of Congress by saying she had planned a restful weekend as he prepared for possible conviction. Oh, I would just love to see them spend a little time in prison. I'm not holding my, my breath on this one. Doug, what are your thoughts on this?

[Rob Carson]

Well, I thought so that when it was in reverse Obviously we were lectured. You know, they were pompously lecturing us how important it was. But more importantly, and a much finer legal point is that they said, hey, the person has to show up. And then if they want to raise objections like executive privilege and so forth, they have to do it in person. They can't possibly just simply disregard a subpoena. Well, oh, really? Now to the lawyers, because I was very, very surprised. Multiple choice, either A, they don't know one of the most fundamental propositions in the practice of white collar criminal law, literally, like at the level of, in tennis, the goal is to hit the ball over the net. And that is that if a subpoena is issued to a client, and we've all been in that situation so many times you couldn't even count. Mr. Burns, I received a subpoena. Okay, fine. You have two options. Either A, comply with the subpoena. Well, three options. B, call the prosecutor. Can you get an extension? Can you work something out? Can we do an informal interview, something like that? Or C, make a motion in court to quash the subpoena. You cannot write a letter pompously saying this subpoena's invalid. Have a nice day. They know that. And the point is, the arrogance level is really kind of remarkable. Now to your question. And you're right. I mean, Eric Holder, the Attorney General of the United States, was held in contempt of Congress. DOJ just laughed and looked the other way like it was nothing. Obviously we have a Republican, you know, AG we're going to call it, although politics isn't supposed to enter into it, but I do not, repeat, do not think they will be prosecuted. And by the way, if they were, that could also be a negative for Republicans because you know, the way the messaging works, they would just go, of course, of course, over their skis about how unfair it is and everything else.

[Doug Burns]

Well, of course this is with mine. My buddy Chris Plan always says, if it weren't for double standards, Democrats would have none at all. What is most striking about the lack of any effort to come up with a cognizable defense? The Clintons simply chose open defiance because you know what, we have a two tier justice system in this country and some people don't have to obey the law and the rest of us have to. That just the way it is, Doug.

[Rob Carson]

But I don't understand how they get away with the double standards, though. So in other words, you know, I watched all these pundits on Ms. Now, it was MSNBC previously, and they just look right in the CAMERA when it was, you know, Bannon and Navarro and you know, the bedrock of our system is compliance with subpoenas. If somebody takes it upon themselves to simply ignore it and now they just completely have amnesia, they completely forgot that they were saying that and now they just pivot and they somehow try to justify this. I mean, I don't know how they.

[Doug Burns]

Get away with that because they can. That's why they do it. And they do. And they do because they have a compliant media and they have a bunch of Republicans who are so scared of their own damned shadows they won't hold anybody accountable. They were perfectly fine. The Democrats were sending Donald Trump to jail for 700 years. Wouldn't have thought twice about it. Cuz we don't burn down cities and stuff like that. That's what it's all about. Don't Doug.

[Rob Carson]

No, I couldn't agree more. But again, I think, but I also think, honestly, just thinking out loud that particularly you know, with Trump getting reelected, which was a rejection of so much of what they saw, the impeachment stuff, the Russia, Russia thing, you know, and then the case in New York City, which was just preposterous and they saw through it and reelected him. So I think as we are talking right this minute, I think, think that the left side stuff is not resonating with people nearly as much as they may think.

[Doug Burns]

Yeah. And I also am hearing a grand conspiracy case is building behind the scenes. So I'm keeping my fingers. We don't have time to cover that today, Doug, but I do appreciate your time, brother. Doug Burns Law on Twitter. Have a glorious rest of your week, my friend.

[Rob Carson]

Thank you, sir.

[Doug Burns]

All right, let's take a break and come back. This is the Rob Carson Show. This is Rob CARSON show. So not so surprising. Poll results from Rasmussen about do you approve or disapprove of the Trump administration's program to find and deport immigrants who are here illegally? Yeah, I hate to tell you this, but Democrats once again on the wrong side of history. We'll get to that. We'll get to that very shortly. On the, on the show. I just read this interesting article, January 16th, which was three days ago, but in 2025, silver was at $30.79. January 16th, 2026, it was $90.07. Gold is doing the same thing. The silver supply deficit is real. Mining Production peaked in 2015, has been on a downward trend for 11 years. Ten years higher prices won't change that. Silver is mostly a byproduct of lead and zinc Mining. Those miners care about silver prices. It's it is 1 to 2% of their revenue. Recycling can't fill the gap. Industrial demand for silver creeps keeps increasing for electronics, electric devices, advanced batteries, semiconductors, medical devices, water purification, 5G infrastructure. And then there's gold. Gold that was at 2700 was 4600 last week. I haven't had a chance to look at it today. We shall see. But if you're a first time gold buyer, Birch Gold is offering a rebate up to $10,000 on qualifying purchases to claim eligibility. Start the process. Just text my name. Rob to 989-898. Rob to 989-890 8. You're going to get a rebate of up to $10,000 on qualifying purchases. Okay? So roll that IRA and 401K into an IRA in gold. You may be eligible for a rebate up to $10,000. That ends at the end. Already the 19th for goodness sake. So text Rob to 989898. Rob to 989898. Rasmussen Reports. Do you approve of Donald Trump's fighting and deporting illegals? Approve. All voters 62%. All men. 59%. All women are all men. 65%. All women 59%. 18 to 39 year olds 57%. 40 to 54. 59% white people. 60% black people, 59% Hispanics. Are you ready? 63% other 74%. Maybe that's a non binary people. I don't even know. Democrats 42%. 42% of Democrats say that finding and deporting immigrants who are here illegally is cool. Independent 64% in the GOP. The GOP, the GOP as it were. 80%. 80% Americans love it. Democrats are on the wrong side of history and they're going to be in a whole lot of trouble should Donald Trump decide to invoke the Insurrection act in the state of Minnesota. We got much more on this. Tim Vunce and Jacob Fry in all sorts of trouble. House and the feds are trying to unravel the mystery of the squads. Ilhan Omar being so rich she's in seriously hot agua. Among other things in our number two of the Rob Carson Truck show. If I were you, I wouldn't go anywhere. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits. They leave out. Check the math. AT T Mobile and now T Mobile is in US Cellular stores. Savings versus comparable Verizon plans, plus the.

[Rob Carson]

Cost of optional benefits. Plan features in taxes and fees vary.

[Doug Burns]

Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Hey y'. All. As a growing family, my husband and I love game night, especially when it's Wayfair edition. Let's do it. You gotta name as many Wayfair furniture into core categories as you see. Can ready. Go. Sofas, bar stools, beds, ottomans, outdoor seating, bookshelves, kitchen tables, garden sheds, mid century modern lamps. Time. Nice. You got nine out of a lot. Not too bad. Keep practicing by visiting Wayfair.com where you can shop every style for every home. Wayfair Every style, every home.