The Rock Fight LIVE at TRE 2025!

Summary

The Rock Fight LIVE at TRE 2025!

Date: December 6, 2025
Podcast: The Rock Fight: Outdoor Industry & Adventure Sports Commentary

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Episode Overview

This dynamic episode features a live recording from The Running Event (TRE) 2025 in San Antonio, Texas—a convergence of running and outdoor industry leaders, retailers, and enthusiasts. Host Colin True and the Rock Fight crew (Owen Comerford, Shantae "Gear Abby" Stanlebert, and producer Dave) bring their trademark irreverence and skepticism to the stage, joined by industry insiders:

• Christina Henderson (Director, The Running Event/Switchback, VP Endurance Group)
• Kent Ebersol (President, Outdoor Industry Association [OIA])
• Ashley Mateo (Founder/Editor-in-Chief, RUNNER Magazine)

Together, they deliver candid takes on the current state of the industry, cross-pollination between running and outdoor sectors, evolving attitudes toward diversity and inclusion, and hands-on takes on gear and trade show booths. The conversation is honest, witty, and community-driven—true to The Rock Fight’s promise of campfire camaraderie, industry critique, and celebration of both triumphs and spectacular fails.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. First Impressions of TRE: Show Vibe & Trends

Timestamps: 03:26–06:47

• First-time attendee reflections:
  • Owen and Shantae remark on the event’s unique mix, noting the absence of expected runner attire (singlets, short shorts) and a surprising lack of dogs.
  • Dave observes that smaller booth footprints ("10 by 20 is probably the star of the show") and recovery products are trendy, while booth design is leaning more modular and dynamic ("the ticker seems to be the new trend in booth construction" [06:09]).

“Small booths seem to be in for sure. Recovery—that’s a trend that continues.”
—Producer Dave (05:55)

• Sustainability messaging: noticeably absent compared to other outdoor-focused trade events; the group jokes about the prevalence of synthetics and "a petrochemical love fest."

"We do know the outdoor [industry] is very performative in our sustainability. I don’t think you have the same issue here with TRE."
—Producer Dave (06:28)

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2. TRE’s Evolution & Industry Collaboration

Timestamps: 07:07–16:57

• Venue & logistics: Christina Henderson shares ongoing search for TRE’s true “home,” with an open mind about venues matching industry needs ([07:31]).

• Industry branding banter:

  • Kent Ebersol’s crusade: Strongly objects to calling his org “the OIA”—it’s just “OIA.”
  • Sparked a humorous, running gag throughout the segment.

“Nobody here says the Birkenstock, the Lems, the Teva. It’s OIA. It’s Teva. It’s Birkenstock. [...] If he ever said the OIA again, I was going to rain hell down on his house.”
—Kent Ebersol (08:46–09:08)

• Growing crossover:

  • Henderson: “We have the most outdoor specialty retailers in attendance that we've ever had at TRE." ([11:21])
  • The collaboration between TRE and OIA/Switchback is deepening.
  • Focus on community, “vibe,” and balancing awards/recognition with authentic connections.

• Key priorities for trade events:

  1. Right people in the room
  2. Community and vibe
  3. Are people selling and buying?
  4. Functional additions that serve the overall experience

“If an award ceremony is critical to community and vibe, we got to think about it. [...] Community and vibe is what allows you all to walk away and go, ‘I’m coming back or not.’”
—Kent Ebersol (13:14)

• OIA’s Rendezvous event returns:
  • New focus: Small, high-impact summit (75-100 people), actionable outcomes, tackling core issues for the next 5-10 years.
  • Truth: “Sometimes it takes a small group of people to be very clear... when you have 75 to 100, you have to walk away with marching orders.” ([16:12])

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3. The Intersection of Outdoor & Running Culture

Timestamps: 17:23–24:34

• Guest spotlight: Ashley Mateo (RUNNER Magazine):
  • Clarifies: It’s pronounced “Runner”—the focus is on women but inclusive by nature.
  • Defuses “real runner” myths for both trails and roads.

“Anybody who runs is a real runner, regardless of the pace, the distance, the surface. If you run, you are a runner.”
—Ashley Mateo (18:33)

• Diversity & participation:
  • Running has pivoted toward empowering women and building community (“female participation numbers are just through the roof” [20:10]), a move the outdoor industry can learn from.
  • Community and participation are now central, overtaking the old “performance first” ethos.

“It’s not as performance focused as it was at one point. Now it is very community based and participation based.”
—Ashley Mateo (20:10)

• Women leading in the industry and on public lands:
  • Mateo spotlights women (e.g., Courtney Dauwalter, Tara Dower, Rachel Entrekin, Molly Seidel) excelling both competitively and as advocates.
  • Female runners are at the forefront of public land protection through organizations like Runners for Public Lands ("women are the ones who are leading that charge" [21:40]).

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4. Gear Talk & the “Dear Gear Abby” Segment

Timestamps: 24:36–28:22

• Handheld bottles and gear questions:

  • Shantae as “Gear Abby” offers pragmatic advice and wit on upgrading from a beloved (possibly moldy) Gatorade bottle: recommends visiting a specialty run shop for a tailored solution, and isn’t above a little bottle hygiene advice (“the sucky part is where all the mold lives” [28:04]).

• Call outs for innovation & honesty:

  • Challenges brands to make genuinely insulated handhelds for hot climates.
  • Invites others to test her (“if there are any brands on the floor at TRE that think they have a handheld that’s actually insulated, let me know” [27:23]).

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5. Best and Worst of Show: Booth Reviews

Timestamps: 29:09–36:15

• Outstanding booths:

  • Brooks: “Freedom Flex Funhouse”—praised as a top example of experiential product storytelling ([29:50]).
  • Superfeet: Mirrored geodesic dome, “like a tour of a past tense future.”
  • North Face & Arc’teryx: Classic, effective use of simulated ground and product display.
  • Smaller brands (Revive and Revel): Turned a 10x10 into a stylized, album-cover-laden hangout (“Wayne’s World’s room”).
  • Teva & Keen: Sustainability message via recycled materials and booth construction.
  • Cotopaxi: Bounced back with a cozier, more inviting booth and a real dog (“Comeback Player of the Year”).

• Fun with mannequins:

  • Saucony, Anta, New Balance, and Nike’s ACG all get critiqued for their use—or lack—of active, engaging mannequins.

• Less inspired efforts (“Sad trombone”):

  • Clif Bar: Just a table with samples—“assortment of shot blocks laid out on the floor.”
  • Ultimate Direction: Lacked a clear directional theme.
  • Xero Shoes: “Minimalist” brand with a maximal content booth, conflicting brand promise.
  • Prana: Sparse table, oddly lackluster for a Columbia-owned brand (“Blink twice if you need help, Prana!” [35:26]).

“It doesn’t matter how big your booth is, how much budget you have... Storytelling is a conceptual thing in a three-D space. Can you bring your product or your brand values to life?”
—Producer Dave (35:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On indoor vibe:
  “Definitely get that mid-teens OR vibe once again. Pretty sure the UFOS booth, they bought it from the Arc’teryx booth in 2017.”
  —Owen Comerford (05:23)

• On community:
  "Community and vibe is really what allows you all to walk away and go, I'm coming back or not."
  —Kent Ebersol (13:14)

• On real runners:
  “I take issue with the term ‘real runner’ because I think anybody who runs is a real runner.”
  —Ashley Mateo (18:35)

• On women leading:
  “Women are participating at a higher level than men. And I think it’s because there has been this sense of empowerment… and the sport is leaning into it.”
  —Ashley Mateo (20:10)

• On finding the right gear:
  “My liquids cold in Southern California while I’m radiating the heat of a thousand suns on runs. Let me know.”
  —Shantae/“Gear Abby” (27:24)

• On booth design and storytelling:
  “It doesn't matter how big your booth is... Storytelling is a conceptual thing in a 3D space. Can you bring your product or your brand values to life?”
  —Producer Dave (35:51)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:26–06:47: First impressions, event trends, sustainability chat
• 07:07–16:57: Industry collaboration, OIA branding, Rendezvous relaunch
• 17:23–24:34: Ashley Mateo on running inclusivity, women in running, product design
• 24:36–28:22: Gear Abby gear Q&A—handheld bottles & advice
• 29:09–36:15: Booths that wowed and underwhelmed; philosophy of show presence

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Tone & Takeaways

The Rock Fight LIVE at TRE 2025 is candid, irreverent, and community-focused:

• Tone: Lively, funny, sometimes brash; playful teasing mixed with sharp, insightful critique; open celebration of both innovation and flops
• Takeaway: The running and outdoor industries stand at a crossroads—united now by shared events, but with room to learn from each other, especially in diversity, inclusion, and authentic community building. Meanwhile, storytelling, innovative gear, and honest fun remain the backbone of engaged, sustainable growth.

For listeners:
If you want an unvarnished window into the real conversations behind the scenes at major outdoor/running industry events—mixing industry gossip, smart analysis, and true outdoor nerd energy—this is a must-listen (or, thanks to this summary, a must-read).

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Links mentioned:

• RUNNER Magazine: runnermag.com (spelled “RUNHER”)
• Gear Abby podcast (see Rock Fight feed)

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“Please tip your servers—and see you next time, Rock Fighters!”
(36:31)

Transcript

[A]

Hey guys, it's Colin.

[B]

Just wanted to jump in before starting the show to let you know that today's episode is a recording of the Rock Fights live show that we did at the running event in San Antonio, Texas. We had a blast at TRE during the live show and we were joined that day by Kent Debersol and Christina Henderson as well as Runner Magazine's Ashley Mateo.

[A]

It was a great event and I'm excited that we get to share it with you.

[B]

Come back on Monday for our last bit of TRE coverage where our Texas crew of myself and producer Dave and Shantae and Owen will recap the entire show, including our impressions of the Tre Retailer Awards. That's coming up on Monday. But in the meantime, enjoy the live show and we'll see you next time. Rock Fighters Fjallraven isn't here to conquer mountains, tame rivers, or beat the weather. We're here to go slowly, to tread carefully, to cherish the visit. For us, the outdoor experience has never been a race to victory. It's an ongoing journey to create equipment and memories that last for generations to come. Our mission is to inspire more people to move with no nature, and we do this by developing durable and functional equipment that never goes out of fashion. What we really want is to make it easier for people to enjoy spending time in nature on nature's terms. This is our passion, so let's use our vast experience and competence to help more people feel at home in nature, because when they do, they will take greater care of it. Get started on your Fjallraven journey by heading to fjallraven.com today.

[A]

Hey Rock Fighters.

[B]

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[C]

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[A]

Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truths, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and we are live at the running event in San Antonio, Texas.

Joining me on stage, to my left, we have the consigliere, Owen Comerford.

We also to my left, have gear. Abby herself, Shantae Stanlebert. To my right, the people's champion and co founder of the Rock Fight, producer Dave.

Music's very loud, but it's gonna be over in a second, guys.

[B]

It's coming up.

[A]

Today we're gonna be joined by Ashley Mateo, the editor in chief of Runner magazine, as well as the director of the running event, Christina Henderson. And the president of the outdoor Industry Association, Kent Ebersol, the president of the Outdoor Industry Association. We also have gear Abbey answer some questions and of course hand out some opinions on which brands had the best and maybe the worst booths of the show that we've seen so far. Honestly, there's a lot of booths I've seen, guys, so we didn't get to all of them. But before we get to that, I have to ask my co hosts, what do we think of the show so far as first time attendees? Owen, Shantae, what did you think of the running event so far?

[D]

I mean, I love seeing fellow runners out there. I'm not just a hiker. I was a little disappointed at the lack of dogs at the show though, so maybe we'd step it up tomorrow. If anyone's got a dog they can.

[A]

Bring, just go home and get it.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. I was disappointed that we, you know, we had hoped that like at an outdoor show you'll see people all in flannel and hiking boots. I was really hoping for this singlet and the short shorts. Yeah. But I don't think we saw that at All.

[A]

No, not once.

[E]

Right.

[A]

I saw. Oh, there's a couple booths where there was some leg happening.

[E]

All right. Oh, the hairy leg.

[A]

As a hairy legged man myself, I was a little like, oh man, no one wants to.

[F]

You missed the party last night though.

[E]

Oh, okay.

[F]

There were plenty of singlets. There were.

[E]

Oh, really? Okay. No, this is. It's great. Definitely get that sort of mid teens or vibe once again. So this kind of scratching, that itch. In fact, I'm Pretty sure the UFOS booth, they bought it from the Arc' Teryx booth in 2017.

[A]

It was for sale on ebay.

[E]

It was, yeah. So that's great. That multi level white Formica booth, it was great.

[A]

Just add a few screens, repurpose it.

[E]

Totally.

[A]

Dave, any follow up thoughts that you'd like to chime in with?

[F]

You know, I think small booths seem to be in for sure. You can definitely see a smaller footprint. The 10 by 20 is probably the star of the show. Recovery. That's a trend that continues.

[A]

Someday we will be recovered.

[F]

We were recovered for sure. And my other. The ticker seems to be the new kind of trend in booth construction. Right. The moving piece of architecture.

[A]

So did you notice maybe a lack of any messaging, maybe some sustainability messaging that wasn't quite present that we see at other outdoor events?

[F]

Well, you know, we do know the outdoor is very performative in our sustainability. I don't think you have the same issue here with Tre. There does seem to be a petrochemical love fest going on, but like 80 synth would be a good soundtrack. Actually, anything synth would be a good soundtrack.

[A]

We put the synth in synthetic.

[F]

That's right. That's right. But other than that, no.

[A]

All right. Well, guys, this is our second live rock fight at a switchback event, which means it's now a tradition, which also means we have to honor that tradition by welcoming back to the stage the director of the running event and switchback, Christina Henderson and the president of the Outdoor Industry association and Deborah Saul. Come back up here, guys.

It's like they just saw you. Up top, up top. All right. So Christina, every time you've been on stage with us, there's been a first in Nashville. It was the first Switchback spring. This time it's the first San Antonio for Tre. Next June, it will be New Orleans for another first. Do you ever plan on settling down, maybe making something a little less stressful? What do you think?

[G]

Yeah, I think we are trying to find the home and trying to find a location that works best for the outdoor industry and the Running industry, so, you know, can't tell you exactly what the plans are for the future, but you can. I'll keep you updated. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Who is stopping you from telling us?

[E]

What, what, what better time than now with all these lovely people listening?

[D]

They look so eager.

[G]

Well, we're still learning, right? So we're still learning and deciding and we'll share soon, okay? Yeah.

[A]

God, it's like she's been media trained. Damn it.

[E]

I hate when that happens.

[D]

Well, she might be a little more media trained now because we know you have your recent promotion. Vp, what's up? VP of the endurance group over here.

[G]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[D]

Thank you, thank you. Thank you for doing all you do. So you have been promoted. And we've also seen the OIA has deepened the relationship. Absolutely. Nobody told me to say the oia, you know, double down here on the relationship. So what does this mean for the future of Tre Switchback? What's the vibe?

[G]

So I'm really happy to answer the question, but I do think it's worth Kent explaining why you all are calling it the outdoor industry and why he's annoyed. So I want to give him that opportunity.

[H]

I'm not actually sure it's worth talking about.

Nobody here says the Birkenstock, the lims, the teva. It's oaa. It's Teva, it's Birkenstock. I'm just looking around. It's not the oia. It's oia.

[D]

I can tell you don't live in Southern California because we name all of Our freeways the 405. The 5.

[H]

I'm wearing a pair of the ultras. I don't. It's in our brand guidebook. I hear it all the time. I, a couple months ago told him if he ever said the OIA again, I was going to rain hell down on his house.

All of a sudden, we haven't talked. And so I show the last time.

[A]

We'Ll appear on stage together, the oia.

[H]

Back and forth. So it's not the oia.

[A]

Well, let's talk about the OA real quick. So, like, looking at.

[I]

Who is.

[A]

Sorry, that was actually not intentional that time.

[H]

It's in your lexicon now. You got to get it out.

[A]

When you look at who showed up on the brand side here from the outdoors, you know, are you happy with the representation from looking at the outdoor brands who are here?

[H]

Yeah, I'm super happy. This is vibrant. There's a lot going on. It's fun. It's the first time we you know, it's the second time we've come together and so what's not to like? I think the question is what happens next and next. Next question you asked her. And we're, we're fully at work trying to answer those questions and figure that out. But I. You can't take step two without this right here, right now, right?

[A]

Did we step on the answer?

[I]

Yeah. You did not.

[A]

Oh, my God. I just jumped right over. Sorry, Christina.

[G]

No, it's an important question. So, yeah, thank you for the congrats. So with my elevated position, we are promoting Jenae Salinas to be the running event director and we will be hiring a director for Switchback. And this is to give dedicated focus to both industries. As you know, they are distinct and they continue to grow and we just want to make sure we have focus in both. So that's the plan.

[E]

So in terms of retailers, it felt busy. Can you tell us if attendance was up year over year? And do you think that the switchback of it all is bringing more outdoor retailers to the show?

[G]

Great question. So we are slightly ahead in terms of pre registered retailers.

[I]

We.

[G]

Which is great. We are seeing international attendance as well as outdoor specialties. So we do have the most outdoor specialty retailers in attendance that we've ever had at Tre.

[F]

Awesome.

[E]

Also now looking ahead, one of the things that in our pre show we talked about was the fact that this show, it's laid out very well. Two solid days we don't stretch into three days. Two high energy days bookended by education on the front end and an awards show we're going to go to tomorrow night on the back end. So my prediction was that for Switchback and given the deepening, quote unquote relationship between you two, that you guys were going to add an awards ceremony to the end of day two of Switchback.

[D]

2026 and who will get the best podcast award?

[A]

That's really the question we're all waiting to hear.

[H]

I'm going to start reading your questions.

[E]

Can you confirm or deny what does.

[H]

The running world or industry do differently from the outdoor industry and what can they learn from that?

[E]

That's actually a question for somebody else.

[G]

But okay, so it's in conversation. It is not in plans as of now. We are still trying to get to know the outdoor industry and I don't think it's quite, we're quite ready to say, hey, we're going to honor the best outdoor stores because we're still getting to know them. So I do think in the future we hope to here's my answer.

[A]

Another good answer.

[E]

Okay.

[H]

Are you ready for that one?

[E]

Yeah.

[H]

Okay. Lloyd, I said I was gonna mention you. Somebody recently at an event we were both at said, I really love Lloyd because he says yes to everything. And I just reflected on that, and I went, God, I say no to everything. Like, every time someone comes to me, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Kelly. They're all. He says no a lot.

I think part of that answer is what happens next here? And I think. And what I mean by that is we can't say yes to everything. So it's about prioritizing what matters. And I see all kinds of different people in this room. I see retailers, I see brands, I see State of Colorado here. And I see all kinds of different people and from different backgrounds. And you ask that question or you ask a specific question about, do we want an award ceremony? And you get all kinds of different answers. So to me, your first question is the number of people here. That's an important part. Is it the right number and the right people? The second part is Community and Vibe. Do we have Community and Vibe? And I check that big box. Yes, she can answer the numbers, but the Community and Vibe part. And so if an awards ceremony is critical and functional to Community and Vibe, we got to think about it, if we have to do it. But we have to think about it, because Community and Vibe is really what allows you all to walk away and go, I'm coming back or not. And then the third part of this is, are people selling and buying products? And that's a big part of this. It always has to be a big part of this. For some, it's bigger. For others, it's not as big, but there's some component of that.

I think that at some point, we start answering those questions with, does it help the Vibe? Does it help the community? I trust Christina and janae and that DivCom organization because they look at what they're doing. This is not easy to do. All right, I'm done. Should I just.

[E]

Sorry, one other question.

[H]

Last question. It started with Lloyd. It's your fault, Lloyd.

[E]

Ken, since we have you here.

You just announced that you're bringing back Rendezvous. Now, this has been a discussion for a decade to bring this back. Maybe. So why. So why now? And do you have anything you want to say about that show?

[H]

Sure. Why now? Because it's just the demand for convening at different levels is real. It's just real. Rendezvous will be very different than what it's been in the past. If anybody here has been a part of Rendezvous in the past, it was 5, 600 people. We don't have that. We're not going to launch with that many people. We're going to launch with a small group of people, and we're going to try to make it very simple and try to make sure that the topics are topics that what's affecting us for the next five or ten years that we need to be talking about now. I hope that it grows. I hope it gets bigger. I hope there's people in this room that are part of it. I know you didn't get an invite.

[A]

I know it's very sad.

[D]

Rude.

[E]

Yeah.

[H]

Doesn't mean you can't. Okay.

[A]

Depends on the rest of the. Before the OIA and you're mad at me. Yeah.

[F]

Nice.

[H]

And you stop saying the.

[A]

Oh, I've never again.

[H]

So I think it's time to bring it back because I think there's issues. We see four or five issues that the industry needs to address, and if we don't address them in five years, we're going to go, what the heck were we thinking five years ago? We didn't address it. And you can't address that always with 500, 600, 1000 people in the room. Sometimes it takes a small group of people to be very clear about this. One important part of it is when you have a smaller group of people, and I'm between 75 and 100, you have to walk away with marching orders. Like, what are the calls to action? What are we going to do? What are we going to. So that's why we're launching it. We expect it to be manageable. And if we can't six months later look like we're taking action for the benefit of the industry, then we may.

[E]

Never do it again.

[H]

But I think we have to do that. That's the mandate.

[A]

Well, we appreciate your time, Dave. Any last questions before we turn these folks loose?

[F]

Just wondering if Kent has any other rules about acronyms that we should be aware of.

[D]

Now's your time, Kent.

[H]

Let me get out my notes here.

[A]

Well, thank you both so much for the show, for being here, for being such good sports. Thank you, Kent. And as always, thank you for everything. Thanks for having us and thanks for doing everything you do.

[G]

Yeah, thanks for being here.

[A]

Well, guys, given that we're at the running event and right now the Rock Fight has become basically a trail running podcast, at this point, we wanted to have someone from the running world join us to talk about the outdoor and running category. So we're excited to welcome our next guest, Ashley Mateo. She is the founder and editor in chief of Runner magazine. Runner is a quarterly publication covering women's running that recently shipped its second issue. So, Ashley, welcome to the rock fight. Thanks for being here.

[J]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

I brought props, and I want to say run her or run her. Let's just clarify.

[J]

Anybody else want to hold it while I talk?

[I]

Yes. There we go.

[A]

So run her or run her.

[J]

I say runner.

[A]

What's your magazine?

[J]

I think that women are implicit in running, so we don't need to stress her. It's just a part of it.

[D]

That was my theory.

[C]

I love that.

[J]

You can say run her. You can say runner. Just subscribe.

[A]

There you go. All right. Well, unfortunately for you, you're on stage with a, like, not a running podcast, but an outdoor podcast. Right. So we're hoping you could help us with a few things. Firstly, trail running is this seemingly evergreen topic in the industry right now. So I want to ask you, do real runners view trail running as running or just something that outdoors do?

[D]

Oh, my God.

[J]

This is a wild question, because what is a real runner?

[A]

Well, you are. You publish a magazine.

[J]

Take issue with the term real runner. Because I think anybody who runs is a real runner, and I think that is true. Regardless of the pace you're running, the distance you're running, the surface that you run on, if you run, you are a runner. Obviously, trail running is a different experience.

[A]

Right.

[J]

It's not my favorite because it's so much harder. There are hills. I prefer to avoid hills, but it's still very much running. And I think that anyone in any part of the running space considers trail runners real runners.

[A]

I'm a trail runner. I'm insecure. So this is why I asked that question.

[J]

You're a real runner.

[A]

All right, thank you. All right, show's over, folks. That's all I needed. So go ahead, Sean.

[D]

Wow. How do you follow that up as a trail runner? I'd like to know. Okay, so we were talking about how the outdoor industry has kind of a. We like to call it a skinny white guy problem.

[J]

You're not wrong.

[D]

Exactly. So I'm wondering how this translates in running, and are there things the outdoor industry can learn from the running world? There's some things running is doing a little better. I don't know.

[J]

I don't know. There's probably a lot of things that running is doing a little bit better.

[D]

Ooh.

[A]

You asked the question.

[J]

Oh, the skinny white dude problem. I mean, I think that running, to be honest, has had a very male first narrative for a very long time. I mean, that's why Runner exists, because so many of the people in charge of running media are men. And we wanted to create a space that allowed women to center their stories.

[A]

So subscribe today.

[J]

I don't 100% know what the answer is for the outdoor industry, but I think if you look at running, the. The female participation numbers are just through the roof. Women are participating at a higher level than men. And I think it's because there has been this. This sense of empowerment that they found in the sport, and the sport is leaning into it. It is not as performance focused as it was at one point. And now it is very community based and participation based. I mean, you do it because it's a social environment. And.

I think that the outdoor industry could learn a little something from that social element.

[F]

I'm not social. I don't know.

So who are some women that are kicking ass in the space right now, like both in the performance area and then in the industry?

[J]

Oh, man. So, I mean, so many, like, if you look at trail running specifically, obviously Courtney DeWalter is like the greatest of all time.

[F]

Yeah.

[J]

And I think she has set this, I don't want to say precedent, but just this bar for women, and women are meeting it and surpassing it. And so people that I think of off the top of my head are like Tara Dower, Rachel Entrekin.

I'm really excited to see Olympian Molly Seidel move into trail and just see what an Olympic marathoner can do on a longer course, on a more challenging course. I think. Who else I'm super stoked by.

[A]

You mentioned some efforts being led in public lands by women as well, women runners.

[I]

Oh, yes.

[J]

So we, in issue two, we have a story on how female runners are really leading the charge to protect public lands. There's an organization called Runners for Public Lands, and it's just. It's really inspiring to see the women who spend their time in these spaces, like, taking action to protect them and make sure that everyone still has access to recreate in the outdoor spaces, whether it's a public park, whether it's, you know, the, I don't know, national parks, the mountains that I live in in Colorado, like, we want to protect those places. And women are the ones who are leading that charge, which I think is kind of wild. But honestly, the writer for issue two did a much better job of telling that story than I just did summing it up.

[A]

Subscribe is what you're saying subscribe all comes back to there.

[J]

It all comes back to subscriptions, guys.

[E]

So in the outdoor industry, for the longest time, when it came to products for women specifically, the mantra was pink it and shrinkage.

[F]

Oh, man.

[E]

Right. And I was actually surprised. I did see a couple of shoe brands on the floor that still had unisex lasts or sizing. Right. So not female specific. Do you think the running industry is making progress in terms of women's specific product or. Well, or not.

[J]

I do. I think that's. It's such an interesting question because I don't know if all women need women specific shoes or products, but I think anytime that brands are investing more money into research around women's bodies and anatomy and biomechanics and all those things, that is a good thing for the industry. And whenever there are more options available, that means more women will pick up the sport and stick with the sport. And that's true for any activity, not just running. And so I think, I don't think unisex is a bad thing. For example, like I wear a women's size 10 and a men's eight and a half and that works for me, but it might not work for you. You might need a women's specific shoe that has a different fit that makes you more comfortable when you run, when you hike, whatever. And giving women those options is how you keep them in the sport.

[D]

I just want shorts that fit my ass. That's all I ask.

[J]

That. That is the tough one, I feel like.

[A]

Are you saying are you available to any brands looking for.

[D]

I'm available to model for any brands that think they have shorts that will fit my voluptuous ass.

[A]

We call this the Shantae.

[E]

I've also a number.

[J]

We start gear testing for Runner and.

[E]

A number of emerging brands are even. It's shorts that don't ride up.

[D]

Oh, my God. The dream.

[A]

The dream.

All right, well, thank you so much for joining us, Ashley, everyone. Subscribe to Runner Magazine. Runner. That's it. Here it is. Where do you guys go to runner.comrunnermag.com.

[E]

To those listening to the pod, it is r U N H E R. If you want to check it out.

[A]

We will link it in the show notes. Thank you for joining us.

[J]

Thank you guys so much.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[D]

And you can keep that.

[A]

Well, we did see quite a bit of gear out there today and. Oh my God, is that gear. Abby's music wow, folks, not only do you have the outdoor industry's leading podcast podcast crew on the Stage with you today, you also have the Outdoor Communities most entertaining podcast hosts, because Gear Abby is here and we would be remiss not to ask her a question. Okay, so for those of you who may not know, and how dare you for not knowing, we launched a new show this past fall called Gear Abbey, where our own Shantae Salibar answers questions about outdoor people products, places and pastimes. So we came prepared. Shantae. Excuse me, Gear Abby, thank you. Yeah. Are you ready for the question?

[D]

I'm always ready, Colin.

[A]

Okay. Dear Gear Abby, I've been using an old ass Gatorade squeeze bottle for my college days. Sounds like something that Fitzkahal does on my runs for years now. My wife keeps threatening to throw it away next time I'm out on a.

[B]

Business trip because she says it's probably.

[A]

Moldy at this point. It's not. To be fair, she did also offer to buy me a new one. So if I'm going to say goodbye, what should I replace it with? Signed Gatorman.

[D]

Well, Gatorman, you probably can't hear this, but I just gave you a moment of silence for your decrepit old Gatorade bottle. You know, that's respect. By the way, they still make Gatorade bottles in all sorts of flavors and shapes and colors. There's metal ones, all little spigot situations. It's a real nice time. But Gatorman and anybody else out here who's curious, I love a good handheld. There's a lot of them on the floor here.

[F]

Who doesn't?

[D]

That's not a euphemism.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[D]

Sorry, Colin. Yeah, it's not. But maybe it is. But I like the wood. So I have tried the thing where you will strap them on with. Don't say anything, Colin.

[A]

You can't tee it up like that.

[D]

With a headband or a buff. But it just feels like I'm wearing a splint, so I want one that actually attaches to my hand. I also love it when they're wearing the little backpacks. I think that's very exciting as a hiker to bring outdoor. It's like switchback being here at tr. You're bringing outdoor into the run category, right?

[I]

Sure.

[D]

You can put your credit card in there, your keys, whatever disgusting gel you're eating that day. Yeah, I think my.

[A]

I feel like you're about to call out a brand and maybe they're in attendance. We don't know.

[D]

No, I won't call out any gel brands. That's fine. But I will Say I use a Nathan handheld speed shot.

[A]

Is anyone here from Nathan?

[D]

And then I got some. I have a beef because here's the thing. I bought it because it said it was insulated. I live in Southern California, and you know, the very first time I took that thing out, there's no insulation. I feel like the whole insulated handheld thing is kind of bullshit. So if there are any brands out on the floor at Tre that think they have a handheld that's actually insulated.

[A]

I'd be interested in this.

[D]

My liquids cold in Southern California while I am radiating the heat of a thousand suns on runs. Let me know.

[A]

Furnace around it. It's like, I will defeat this insulation.

[D]

Listen, I'm an island girl. I'm Cuban. That's. That's what happens. But yeah, so I think ultimately, Gator man, I always recommend go to a run shop. That's where you're going to find somebody who is going to help you find the best bottle for your little paws or maybe your large paws. I don't want to. You know, we don't kink Shame on this podcast.

[A]

No king shaming on gear, Abby.

[D]

But yeah, I think that's. That's what I'd say to Gatorman. And you know what, dude, if you want to keep that Gatorade bottle, you could just clean it. You can use a little bit of bleach. You can use white vinegar and water and just swirl it around and like, the sucky part is where. That's the technical term.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Sucky part is where. Don't say anything. Owen's gonna leave where all the mold lives. Okay.

But, dude, maybe Gatorade, if you want to keep that, like Gatorman, that sweet, sweet. Those sweet, sweet bpas coming back into your body, you could keep your old.

[A]

Bottle, but yeah, there you go.

[D]

That's all I got for you.

[E]

All right.

[A]

And we did have one on site question.

[D]

Oh, did we?

[A]

Came in from a Lloyd Vogel.

[D]

Oh, Lloyd.

[I]

Lloyd Moogle.

[A]

I think he's in attendance. Hi, Lloyd. There he is.

[D]

Wow. I can't wait to hear what Lloyd definitely asked.

[A]

Lloyd wants to know if you could only run one surface for the rest of your life, and you've already kind of revealed maybe what your answer is.

[D]

Going to be today.

[A]

Would you pick rotor trail, and would the shoe have to have dyneema?

[D]

Oh, well, if I was running with Lloyd, it would have to have dyneema, but no, I think I'd pick trail for the rest of my life. Not just because I like nature. But also because I want it to look purposeful when I fall. So that's why trail's better, in my opinion.

[A]

Right on. Well, thank you, Gear Abby, for putting on your Gear Abbey hat.

[D]

No problem. Anything?

[A]

Answering some questions. Listen to the Gear Abbey podcast. Everybody out there, if you don't listen to it already, you're missing out.

[D]

It's stickers. I got stickers with you.

[A]

There's stickers.

[H]

All right.

[A]

And lastly for today, if you were at our show at Switchback Spring, we know why you're here. You want to know which booths we liked and which booths maybe missed the.

[B]

Mark a little bit.

[A]

So let's turn things over to the rock Fights brand and creative expert. You know, he's your favorite producer. Dave. Dave.

Are you ready to reveal your day one findings?

[H]

Come on.

[F]

You know, this was a group effort. Colin and I don't think we said anything. I don't know if they missed the mark. Maybe they were hitting a different mark that we weren't aware of. Right. Might be more appropriate. But look, some of the standouts in day one, and I hate to lead with the biggest booth on the floor, and I'm looking at you, Brooks, but.

[A]

If you go from the moon, but.

[F]

If you go behind the kid, you know, part, you know, big coliseum that they have there, there's a fun house. Right. And back in the Freedom Flex funhouse. Fun house. And it is a, I think, one of the best expressions of a product concept brought into a booth that I've seen in a long time. So it's the flex, it's the mirrors, it's curved metal shelves, it's the floor graphics. It really brings to life this idea of a dimensional shoe that moves in shapes. And so that just is, like, really well done. It's really.

[A]

How much are they paying you to say that? They clearly didn't blow their entire budget on the booth.

[E]

I think you got some free shoes for free. They give away shoes, right?

[H]

I hear they give away shoes.

[D]

No, I think they really cornered the market on the parkour shoe, though.

[A]

Yeah, they did one and only underserved part of the industry.

[F]

Yeah. The other one, you gotta go with Superfeet in their geodesic dome. It's mirrored. It's like a tour of a past tense future. It's fantastic. I think you said pre apocalyptic.

[D]

Pre apocalyptic, yeah.

[F]

That's great. I'm a sucker for the classic. So I am going to call out North Face. They do a booth. Well, simulated ground kind of terrain. Just nice product display. Arc' teryx. Does the same thing. I'm just wondering when they're going to have the Riverwalk fireworks display. I think that'll go over really well.

[A]

Did you hear something later tonight? Actually there are Antos on the other side of the building because they know what's going on at Arcteryx.

[E]

Okay.

[F]

From kind of the smaller brands. There's Revive and Revel. Or Revel. Excuse me, do it again. Revive and Revel. They took a 10 by 10 and turned it into kind of like Wayne's World's room with album covers and some, you know, like a.

[A]

Like a teenage boy's back.

[F]

That was great. It was just well done in terms.

[A]

Of you related is what you're saying, looking at that.

[F]

Well, it was a little almost famous. Sure, right. But no, I just think it's good thought in terms of what they're doing. So I love seeing that.

Next on our list is always looking for kind of the sustainability position or the nature based booths. And like I kind of, you know, comment. It's a little different here because we have, you know, two industries coming together. But you know, Teva Recycling, that wooden structure, you're always going to get a call out for that Keen, you know, that's their brand. So they really brought it. I think their booth kind of embodies this idea of a sustainable footprint. They are growing a sprinter van in the middle of the booth, which I think is pretty cool.

[A]

You put some petroleum in the ground.

[F]

It just kind of comes up. Rabbit has an open floor plan which is also a nice way to do it. Where you.

[A]

The unbooth.

[F]

It's an unbooth, right? Kind of like Patagonia. They're kind of like an unbooth.

[D]

Are they here?

[E]

Okay, they are.

[A]

They're right over there.

[E]

Oh, okay.

[F]

There's a space and then shout out to mount to coast. They're using the kind of the cardboard wall structures, all free form. Again, really, really smart use of it.

[A]

They sort of assembled an aggregate of different booth types. I feel like they had the running the finish line.

[F]

They did, you're right.

[A]

Whatever.

[F]

No, I think that's spot on.

The next segment is brought to you by the Mannequin Defense League. This is a group that's out there to make sure that brands are using mannequins in a proper way. And I'm gonna say Saucony and Anta both have nice little displays of mannequins. They're active, they're running. They look like right form.

[A]

Mannequins don't like to be static they do not.

[F]

Which, you know, new balance. The product looks nice, but they're kind of like a normcore squad you got there. So I think they're just standing. I think they prefer to be moving.

[D]

What y' all didn't see was every time Dave passed a booth with mannequins, we lost him. He was standing there, just this little small smile on his face, taking notes into his phone.

[H]

Only the good ones.

[A]

We're all pretty convinced he has a bad one of mannequins in his face.

[F]

We cry for sure. ACG had a terrarium going on, so it's always nice to see mannequins in their natural trail environment. Who else did we see?

[D]

I know who we saw. We saw an animal.

[F]

We did Cotopaxi brought the dog Akin, which is also really cool. And shout out to darn tough. They always have the sheep. Akin. Right. Which is really cool to bring. But Cotopaxi.

[I]

Yeah.

[A]

Cotopaxi comeback player of the year from the Switchback spring show, where we gave them some grief.

[E]

So.

[I]

Yeah.

[H]

Right, right.

[F]

It was a better use of space. They had it cozy, nice and warm. We think you can do better.

[I]

We do.

[A]

Keep upping the game, guys. See you in New Orleans.

[E]

Which.

[I]

Which.

[F]

Which does lead us to what we call the sad trombones, the underperformers.

[A]

This is why you've stayed around users. You are still here.

[F]

I think, you know, this is just one person's opinion. Colin's. This is Colin's.

[E]

It's all Colin. Yes.

[D]

We weren't involved in this.

[E]

Not at all.

[F]

I'm going to say we saw Cliff Bar and it was really more of a table.

[A]

We did. They were here.

[F]

They were. It was. You know what?

[D]

It's just an assortment of shot blocks just laid out on the floor. Essentially.

[F]

It was just, you know what, Cliff.

[A]

Like, they have Kroger money. They don't need to be like, you know, like, whatever, dude. Yeah, here's are some bars, you know.

[F]

Just like when your Clif bar gets all soggy, that's kind of just what they were doing. Ultimate direction. I didn't feel very ultimate, and it didn't feel like in the right direction. I think again, you got to just work a little bit more, get that concept out, which I'm also going to call out Zero, the minimalist brand. They stuffed a lot of content into 10 by 10. And if you're a minimal brand, that does not not give me minimal vibes. So I think we got to think about that. And then lastly, and probably most sadly, here is Prana. Right? Can somebody help me here? But is Prana okay?

[B]

Are they okay?

[F]

Right?

[D]

Blink twice if you need help.

[I]

Please.

[A]

Prana, reach out.

[F]

They just brought a table. I think we can do more. I think they forget they're owned by Columbia sometimes. Like, you've got some money back there. Let's bring it.

[D]

I don't know. I think Columbia already spent all that money on their advertising campaigns.

[A]

There's like the over. You get a rebrand, you get a re. Not you. You do not get a rebrand.

[C]

Right?

[E]

Yeah, look, it was that sorrel ad that was. That was.

[A]

Yeah, they spent all the products, all their money.

[E]

Exactly.

[F]

I think, though, it just goes back to, like, it doesn't matter how big your booth is, how much budget you have to do this. Storytelling is a conceptual thing in a 3D space. So can you bring your product to life? Can you bring what your product or your brand values to life? And like I said, it's not about two stories. I mean, UFOS has shown that, but you can really be clever if you put some thought to it.

[A]

Well done, Dave.

[I]

All right.

[A]

Did we offend anyone, do you think? Was it too bad?

[E]

I think we did.

[A]

All right. Mission accomplished. Listen, guys, that's the show for today. Thank you all so much for being here. Thank you for listening to the rock fight and showing up to support the show. Please tip your servers. All right.

[E]

Over here. All right.

[A]

That guy right there, There he is. Yeah, he's waiting on him.

[E]

That's it.

[A]

We'll be here tomorrow. Please stop by and see us if you see us running around. Listen to this show. We'll be up on Friday and then we'll do our recap show for the entire event which will be out next Monday. And like always, here to take us out is Krista Manx with the rock fight fight song. And we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.

[I]

Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human powered outdoor activ activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock flight. Rock flight. Rock flight. Welcome to the rock flight. Rock flight. Rock flight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Fight.

Rock fight. Rock fight.