B (4:04)

Did Bobby have these headphones when you met him? Is that what did it?

A (4:07)

I thought, man, if my future husband is wearing child size blue headphones, that is just so that was part of my list of everything I wanted in a man.

C (4:18)

I am the most humble man that I know. I will use a Toddler headphone set. Because it's the only splitter we have.

A (4:25)

Yeah. It's the only one that can attach to multiple. Multiple headphones.

B (4:30)

And you know what? You can pull it off.

C (4:32)

It is my color. It's my season.

A (4:33)

It totally looks rocking on you.

B (4:36)

It's Marian Blue yourself. Bobby, you got any sort of testimonies or kind of history with the rosary?

C (4:42)

I mean, that account of what, like, how Jackie and I came together under the umbrella of Our lady, of John Paul ii, his teachings on the theology of the body, our faith, and how. And how close Mary was. How close John Paul II was to Mary. Like, when he lost his own mom from such an early age, he went to Mary and said, you must be my mother now. And I even thought of this in the last day thinking about this interview. Like, I forget how close Mary is to our story sometimes where even my little email send off like, it's my name and my email ttm, which I've had for I don't know how many years now. And it's so close, you don't see it sometimes where it's like, it's totus tuis Maria, which is the Latin for totally yours, Mary, which John Paul II took as his papal little. Yeah. As his motto. And that's been, like, in my face day in, day out. And how easy it is to just, like, I don't know, stop seeing it. The same with Jesus on the cross or any other part of our faith where it just becomes too familiar. And so Mary, I think, is also happy to be behind the scenes interceding. For us, it's not about her. It's about going through her to Christ. And both Jackie and I separately had our growth in faith, and Mary being a real part of that. And now together as a married couple, and now with five wild kids trying to form them with a love of the faith and an appreciation for Our lady and the rosary, too.

A (6:20)

And what's cool is every year we reconsecrate ourselves. You're supposed to do your consecration. So we then started doing that as a married couple. So the Immaculate Conception has become our new or my new day. My original date was the presentation of the Lord. But so every year we reconsecrate ourselves. And every time in those years that I was pregnant, we would consecrate each of our children to Our Lady. And so it's just been. She's been a huge part of our faith journey. And because a priest friend of mine who's an exorcist, he said to me, he's like, jackie, when you place yourself in the womb of Our lady to be formed like Christ was, he's like, that's where she protects you. And he's like, satan can't stand Our Lady. And when you consecrate yourself to Our lady, that's what you're doing. You're essentially saying, I want to be formed like Christ was, and I place myself kind of within your immaculate heart, within your womb, to be formed like him. And it's just. It is. It's a beautiful place. And as a mama, like a place of protection that we want to have our marriage and our children be under that protection.

B (7:20)

Different folks who are listening to this are coming from all different places. They're not necessarily Catholic. Just to kind of briefly kind of define some terms. So, 54 day novena, right? A novena is nine days of prayer, and it goes back to Mary and the disciples praying for nine days after the Ascension, waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit. This is kind of the first novena. And there's a practice in Catholic spirituality of sort of, kind of inspired by this, spending nine days of praying for a particular intention. And then there's kind of like the ninja mode, the super sort of mode of going for a novena, which is a 54 novena. And so at that time, if I understand it correctly, right? Like, the commitment is praying a rosary every day for 54 days for a particular tension, and then in gratitude for that intention. That sounds about right.

A (8:07)

So three novenas, which 27 days in petition for something, and then three novenas and Thanksgiving. Yeah.

B (8:14)

Okay. So that. Because I was talking to somebody else, I'm like, I'm not exactly sure why it's like 54 as opposed to like 93. It's three for the petition, three ingratitude. Right.

A (8:24)

And Father, as I've spoken about the 54 day Rosary Novena, I've heard the stories. It is incredible the amount of miracles that have happened, because it's hard. It's really. It's like the wit, the persevering, the knocking widow. You're just knocking if you have this petition. It takes a lot to really do 54 days in a row and. And not miss. I mean, it's difficult. And so I have heard so many people come back to me and share their stories about them finding their spouses or even just certain miracles of conversions that have happened. And so because I love praying the rosary and I love interceding for people, so some of my 54 day novenas have been for the conversion of family members. And I have seen miraculous things happen there. And I love interceding with Our lady and asking for her intercession. And so it is very powerful. Her intercession is so powerful. I mean, it says it in James. The prayers of a righteous person is powerful, and Our lady is the most righteous person who ever walked the earth.

B (9:22)

What was your experience of, you know, praying the first one, and then you got an answer, but it wasn't the answer you were hoping for. And then persevering and continuing to pray. I think this is, like a beautiful and just really true testament to how this works, is like, when we're praying, we're doing something just praying the rosary. We're praying we're in relationship with Jesus. It doesn't mean that everything's going to work out how we think it's going to mean, like, right away. How'd you navigate that?

A (9:42)

Well, listen, I know that I am the daughter of God and that God loves me. And he again, he delights in all of us as his children. And I know that God loves giving me good gifts and that he has good plans for me. So, no, in my life, since my conversion at 18, when I fell in love with Jesus, I have known that no matter what the answer is to any of my prayers, that God always has something good. He's not holding out on me. He's not mad at me. And so when it didn't go my way, I thought, okay, great, then you have something better for me. Because that's the kind of God you are. That's the kind of father you are. And I knew it. I have faith and I trust, and over anything, I want God's will. So even when I was single and I was discerning my vocation, and I didn't know, you know, God. Are you calling me to be married? Are you calling me to be a celibate? Are you calling me to die? Like, I literally, I'm very memento mori. Like, every day I could die. And so as a single person, I'm like, maybe, yeah, Bobby has skulls, many skulls in our office. And I really thought, you know, maybe my vocation is in heaven. Just like some of the saints. Pier Giorgio Frasati, you know, San Carlo Acutis. All their vocation was in heaven to be married with Jesus the bridegroom. So I thought, maybe that's my vocation. I could die. I'm not guaranteed 90 years of life. So even when things don't go my way, I know God can say yes, he can say maybe, but not now. And he can say, no, I really believe, my God, you are a good father. And if it's not this guy, it's going to be someone better because you don't hold out on me. And someone had told me, like, God doesn't show us gold and give us silver. And I'm like, great, I believe that. I believe that when I, you know, he's not going to show me somebody and be like, oh, sorry, you don't get this too. And I tell people that when they hear my story and Bobby's story, they're like, oh, your story's like such a fairy tale. I'm like, first of all, we have so many friends who have amazing vocation stories. So many friends. I was like, it's not like we're special. It's not like God's like, oh, only you guys get a great story. No, I'm like, you are God's son or daughter, and he loves you just as he loves me. Like, I'm not special in his eyes compared to you. So I just trust that he does have good plans. I Love Romans 8:28 says, all things work for good for those who love God according to his purpose. And it's just an act of trust and saying, God, I want your will above everything. I don't care what it is. I want your will to be done. And I can be suffering through it. I could be in pain. It doesn't matter, like, my feelings that I want God's will to be done. And whether or not it's painful, whether it's joyful, that, like, the end, I want his will.

B (12:11)

For those who kind of want to believe that, but to struggle to believe that. So, like, they've had. They've had a lot of experience of life which is making this case that God doesn't want to give you good things. He's like, he's not. We're not talking about silver and gold. We're talking about, like, if I could just get silver, I'd be happy. But, you know, there's like a lot of experiences of not getting anything. And then they hear folks say, like, no, God is good. God is good. God, trust him, trust him, trust him. Like, for those who struggle to really believe that was like some really deep, intimate parts of their lives, what encouragement would you make them to kind of persevere in hope?

C (12:44)

I would say, God is not this mean coach who's trying to cut you from the team. He's not a puppeteer that delights in our pain, there is evil and there is suffering in the world. And we don't need to water that down. But again, from Romans 5, it's suffering produces endurance, which produces character, which produces hope. And the character is the Greek, which I'm not going to pronounce is something like a proven or tested character that as an athlete, like, you don't know what you're made of until you're pushed beyond what you think you could do. So sometimes, again, the suffering is producing the endurance of just like, I'm just going to get through the day. I'm just going to get through the next hour. I can't see what's ahead, which is producing the character that is slow going. I don't even realize it's happening. Perhaps my ability to tolerate discomfort or uncertainty or just the, I don't know where life's going, but I'm just going to show up and do my lousy best today. Like, that is doing something. And God is not just like, peace out, good luck. He's closer than we know. And we often are. You know, we get stuck in our sin. We get stuck in just kind of losing the forest for the trees. And so it can be hard to hope. It can be hard to like, hear these kind of these points and be like, yeah, well, what about me? And to that I would say, keep going. He's wanting to pull greatness out of us, and that can't be done just sitting on the couch. But our God is also one who walks with us and is in the suffering with us, in our humanity with us. Christ took on a body, a human body is a heart that beats that briefly died and stopped beating, but is now beating in eternity. And so too with Mary, like, closer than we know, her intercession and her prayers with us.

A (14:42)

The other thing I would say is in the Psalms it says, God is close to the brokenhearted, right? God is close to the brokenhearted. And I think a huge part of this is falling in love with Jesus. When we fall in love and we realize that our beloved is so close to us, yeah, he's not this angry or mean person, but that even the Holy Spirit, who is the love of God, poured into our hearts. It says that in Romans 5, 5, like, this is the love of God, that when God gives us this love, it also gives. Gives us his wisdom. And wisdom is perspective. And seeing through that, our citizenship. We are made for heaven. And so no matter what happens here on earth, right? We are made for this eternal love story that this is our Destiny. And I think that's part of hope in the catechism. Oh, man. When it talks about hope in the catechism, it even says that hope is desiring heaven and that heaven is going to be the fulfillment of all these desires. So when we realize we all have these very human desires is how we were made. To be loved, to be seen, to be known, that only God can satisfy that. And guess what? I am married to the man of my dreams, and he's my best friend. And guess what? He still can't satisfy every desire of my heart. I tell that to even married women. I say, I know some of you married women think that if you were married to the man of your dreams, that you would be fulfilled and happy and never have any pain. And that's not true. I am married to the man of my dreams. He's my best friend. And we've been married for how many? 12. We're in our year. 13.

C (16:15)

Thanks for remembering.

A (16:16)

Sorry about that. And guess what? We have, you know, experienced life. Life has been thrown at us. Pain has been thrown at us, miscarriages, we've had health issues, like just all this stuff. And to realize that Jesus alone, no human being, no amount of money, even our vocation, it's not going to satisfy every desire of our hearts. Only Jesus can do that. So falling in love with him is always the answer in our pain and our brokenness. When we don't have hope, it's always Jesus is always the one who we need to get closer to during all the emotions of life, all the things of life, where we are disappointed, where we are hurt, rejected, abandoned. He's the only one who's going to satisfy all that pain and that desire. And for me, the Psalms are always where I go to. When I am feeling that extreme pain or that extreme suffering, I go to the Psalms. One of my favorites is Psalm 18. Psalm 18 says, I love you, Lord. You are my strength. You are my rock, my fortress, my refuge. And then there's a part in it. I think it's verse 19. It says, you delivered me because you delight in me, like the Lord delights in us. And he loves us so much. There's another translation that says, you saved me because you love me. And I'm like, oh, that's great, too. But I like that you deliver because you delight in me. He delights in us. And I think we're not going to have hope, and we're going to kind of be stuck in maybe our cynicism or our pain. As long as we keep our eyes on ourselves. But when we get closer to Jesus, we put our eyes on Jesus. That's where he starts transforming our pain. He starts transforming our cynicism, maybe, and even our woundedness, our brokenness. When we start getting closer to him and we really fall in love and realize he is the answer to all of our desires for happiness. It's nothing else. It's not going to be our vocation. It's not going to be our success, our job, how much money we have. It's not going to be any of that. Because we aren't made for this earth. We are made for heaven and an eternity of love with Him.

B (18:10)

So what's going to happen for this next phase is we're just praying the rosary. So I'm like, praying the rosary. I'm going to have, like, some. A few little, like, meditations that we're going to. We weren't doing in the last phase. We're going to do them here again. But it's really like, people are going to be coming to this, and they are coming to this just to, like, have one other person to pray with, you know, And I think this. This gives kind of a testament to this, to this God given sort of, like, reality or just understanding that, like, we're not meant to do anything alone. When people are really struggling with trusting, they're really struggling with hoping. They're really struggling, persevering. They're. They want to love Jesus and they're really struggling to fall in love more with Jesus. Is it the. You don't even. You don't have to trust Jesus by yourself. You don't have to surrender to Jesus by yourself. You don't have to trust him by yourself. Like, it always can actually begin. And it's meant to begin by going to him first. Okay, Lord, I want to help. Like, I want to trust you. Help me trust you. I want to surrender. Help me surrender. I want to persevere. Help me. Help me to persevere. You know, and so. So, like, we're just not made to do anything alone. And, and if folks, you know, who are listening are struggling with some, like, wherever you're struggling, the first step really is always to go to the Lord and ask for his help and his support and his guidance. And we can also, of course, we know, go to Our lady and as a good mother is able to meet us in our struggle and meet us there in a way that's, like, beautiful and compassionate in your own experience of mother. Has it been something that's given you some insight and a window into Mary's experience with Jesus or into Mary's how she wants to be a mother to you and to all of us.

A (19:33)

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I'm the kind of person that I never dreamt about being a mom. I had friends who couldn't wait to get married and be a mom. And I was like, I don't know, like, I can't even imagine. You know, I'm just not that person. I'm like, I want to be a princess. I want to be served. Like, I. I don't want to have to serve and do all that all the time. But what's so awesome is that when I had my first child, when we had our first child, Abigail, it became. It was so natural. It was so natural. This thing I was so afraid of. I'm like, I don't know how to be a mom. Like, I don't. I mean, my. I had a great mom and a very affectionate mother. And so I was like, okay, I can do this. And so we had our first baby. And I just think staring at the face of your baby is one of the most beautiful things ever. Just to be like, this baby was inside me forming for nine months and now I see the face of this baby. And I would always think of how Mary would look at the face of baby Jesus and just like, man, you got to stare into the eyes of our Lord. How amazing is that? And so even to have that kind of meditation of how a mother holds a baby in her arms and just looks at her child and gazes upon the beauty of her child, and that's a couple things like, so the fact that even in our own prayer, we can do that with Jesus, we can imagine. I have sometimes imagined holding baby Jesus and looking at him in the face and what that would be like to delight in the baby. But also the fact that our mother in heaven, Mary, delights in us as her children and looks at us with that kind of gaze of love. Because I think some of us, we think that when people look at us, there's a look because maybe we have our own self hatred and we can't imagine anyone looking at us with that look of love. And so even to have that kind of imaginative prayer where we imagine that God the Father is delighting in us, I would imagine myself sometimes in prayer as like a little girl and that God the Father is just wrapping me in his arms. And I know for so many people that's not an experience they ever had with their earthly father. Maybe their earthly father never held them in their arms or loved them with affection or gazed at them with a look of love. So I've, in my own prayer, imagined myself as a little girl again. You know, you want your father's attention and love and just to be wrapped in my heavenly Father's arms and he's looking at me with that look of delight. But also with Our lady. We know as parents, no matter how much our kids make us so angry, like we still love them, they could never lose our love and. And we still delight in them and their little quirks and all the things about them. So I think for sure being a mom has given me a different perspective on even just love, on loving my children and how I am a child and how our mama Mary loves me and how God the Father loves me. It definitely has given me such a different perspective with all that.

B (22:30)

Bobby, anything from your own experience, just as a son or as a husband.

C (22:35)

It'S beautiful to watch your spouse become apparent, to go through that metamorphosis and it happens differently in women than in men. But the self gift, the self sacrifice that gets unlocked, the digging deep, the loving in the ways when you're so tired or you're just so out of patience and God loves us infinitely more than this. Even the way you would lay down your life for your kid. It's like while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. It's not that once I got straight A's or once I was really well behaved, as soon as I walk out of confession or I do the rosary with actual focus, then I'm loved. It's like you're loved, period. You're already loved and you were loved into existence. And I think it is hard until you become a parent or a spiritual mother or father to realize like, whoa, that's God loves us beyond in these really mind blowing ways.

A (23:39)

I was watching Bobby as, like I was going through childbirth and is watching Bobby's face as I'm like in so much pain. And then all of a sudden this baby is born and like seeing tears come to Bobby's eyes. Like to watch your wife in so much pain. And then all of a sudden baby comes. It's such a cool thing to be like, that's the cross, right? And then all of a sudden like the resurrection, the joy of, of the resurrection. And how it's funny how as a mom you kind of forget the pain a little bit and you're like, let's do this again. But I think of even Mary and Jesus. And it says in Hebrews, it says, for the sake of the joy that lay before him, he endured the cross. And even how Mary, you know, in Luke, they were like, you're gonna have so much suffering, but it's for the sake of the joy that lay before them. And I think when it comes to childbearing and being a mom and that kind of pain that you know is gonna come, but the sake of the joy of that baby coming out. And even just watching Bobby, the tears come to his eyes, it was just such a beautiful thing to see the resurrection, to see the joy after watching his wife go through much pain. I'm not crying or I didn't. Shocking. I'm a crier. I'm a total crier. And I didn't cry just because I'm like, thank God it's over, but I get to hold the baby now. But even just enduring that kind of pain, the willingness to suffer like that for the joy that's about to come. And so I think that even in terms of our salvation and the resurrection and motherhood and all that stuff, that when you know and you have the perspective that there is joy that's coming, you're willing to endure any of the pain, right? It's not going to last forever, but there's going to be joy and hope on the other side of that.

B (25:27)

I think this is part of the beauty as well, of the reality of our faith and something like a type of grace or a form of the grace that we can receive in actually praying through the rosary is kind of going through the whole sort of cycle. There is certainly a phase of the sorrow, but that's not where it ends. Right? Then we go into the glorious mysteries. There is life, there is resurrection, and that's ultimately what has the eternal victory. And that's like. I've kind of talked about this when talking about the Beatitudes. Like, the first part is kind of like alluding to some sort of share in the cross, but then it's comma, and it's some sort of promise of God. And the period doesn't happen until after the promise of God. Like, they will be comforted, they will see God, et cetera. And that, you know, death doesn't have the last word. Death. It's real, but it's a comma towards, like, the glory and the resurrection. And when we pray the rosary and enter into just the reality of our salvation history, we are also reminded of how this is going to be true for ourselves as well, that this is our destiny. And our call. And it can be a source of encouragement while we are struggling along the journey here. One way in which we can share in the cross, but there's a reason for it and it leads towards an ultimate joy, is having to do anything with another human being. This is called the praying together. But there's a joke, of course, about religious life that the greatest joy of religious life is the brothers, the greatest cross, as the brother say, about a marriage, too. And. Yeah, what. And it's just so real, even in your situation where you're married to your best friend and, you know, like Jack talked about the man of your dreams, like, there's still struggle and there's still conflict and there's still places where we don't see everything exactly the same, we don't want to do everything exactly the same, same pace, etc. But actually being together in it and staying together in it and kind of working through that, it leads to, like, a deep communion and union. But also it leads. It like, leads to our transformation. And it's a huge source of grace. And just to kind of like, focus on this praying together part is people are going to be praying the rosary with me and it's going to be praying together. It's a little bit of, like a unique experience of it is, you know, I'm going to have my own pace and I'm going to have my own sort of voice and I'm going to share my own reflections. And there's part of it which may not be a person's preference. Right. And this is real. We have, like, communal rosary in the friary. And it's like, okay, this guy goes this speed, this guy goes that speed. Whatever, whatever, whatever. But real or even, you're at church, you're at Mass, and there's all these people doing stuff. And I think, like, the Catholic perspective on this is this together, like, it is a gift, it leads towards communion, it leads towards our own transformation, and it's a huge support for our own perseverance in whatever we're doing. Like, certainly the brothers being in the chapel is a huge source of encouragement for me to continue to come to the chapel. But also this is part of the offering, like, part of the offering of our prayer isn't just me being as focused and as, like, really locked in and, like, doing everything I want to do as well as possible. Like, the annoying things happening actually are part of the offering and part of the sacrifice and something really, like, beautiful and pleasing to God. You guys praying together as a couple, praying with the family, certainly with the kids and things like that. There's a lot of ways in which prayer now isn't what it was when you were single. How have you kind of come to like, appreciate, or have you come to appreciate just the experience of like, the value of praying together even though there's, there's a cost to it?

A (28:54)

Yeah, I'll let the introvert who likes time alone go first.

C (28:59)

I have a lot of thoughts. That's the depth to self is getting over my preference. You know, this is the way, the pace that I would like to go. This is how the reflections I would like to be and like letting go of that. And that can be a bit of kicking and screaming internally, the death throes of my ego and what I prefer. And especially as parents, trying to introduce your kids to prayer, sitting still, ish, trying to do like we do a decade of the rosary. We have a book that every Hail Mary has a little short one sentence and the older two kids can read and so they trade off on doing it. But around the room, one kid's picking his nose, another kid is having a pillow fight with the other and, you know, learning to let go of the ideal of the perfection of what, you know, we're not all levitating, we're not all, you know, have perfect poise or anything, but like, something's sticking. And some of Our favorite saints, St. Therese, John Paul II, Venerable Fulton Sheen, all mention praying the rosary with their families as little kids. Like, that memory stuck. Not that it was always perfect and it was clean and it was focused, but like they did it as a family. That stuck with me as much as I have my preferred ways of praying. I think we both need, as spouses need to nourish individual prayer as well as prayer together. And now as parents, how are we leading our family in prayer? And that is something that we do just as a part of life. And this is important and it's going to be messy. We're going to do it anyway, not expect perfection, not make it something miserable either where our kids end up hating it because we're so rigid or we're so strict with backfires.

A (30:57)

Yeah, because really it took us a while to learn too that kids under the age of reason, and that's different ages for different kids.

C (31:05)

22.

A (31:06)

Yeah, 22. I mean, for our girls, the age of reason has been about five and a half. For our boys it's been like seven. So it is different per kid for boys and girls. And just recognizing that a three year old doesn't sit still. And me yelling at them during the rosary to try to sit still is not actually going to help them love Jesus more. It might actually make them hate the rosary. So. So we've had to get over ourselves, even in our parenting, and realize when they do hit the age of reason, it's so glorious. It's like a cloud party.

C (31:37)

It's a glorious mystery.

A (31:38)

It is a glorious mystery. Like, oh, my gosh, they can actually kind of sit still now. They can actually read. And yeah, they're still squirrely. But even at Mass, like, having that knowledge that the age of reason is something different than when your kid's a toddler and going nuts and all this stuff and super squirrely.

C (31:57)

Well, and that more is caught than taught.

A (31:59)

Yes.

C (32:00)

So they're watching us all the time. Our habits with our phones, our habits, how we talk to each other as spouses. And so even in prayer, again, we all get distracted. We all just can become a check the box before we do other evening activities. But are mom and dad taking it seriously? Are they doing it out of love?

A (32:24)

Yeah. One of my kids greatest delights was when I admitted that during Mass, I got distracted. And they were like, really? You're so. But you're perfect, right? It was like when I admitted, I said, you know what my favorite food is? And they're like, what, broccoli? And I was like, no, it's candy. And I could eat candy all day. And they were like, oh, my gosh. So when I, you know, when you admit as a parent that you're not perfect, and when I admitted that I got distracted during Mass, they were shocked. But they were also like, oh, you're real. You're a real human. You're not just my parent who pretends to be perfect and everything. And I said, okay, I get distracted during Mass, and here's what I do. So even during the rosary, I get distracted. And here's what you can do when you get distracted. You acknowledge that you're distracted and put that little thought over here and come back. It's okay. It's okay because you're human. You know, I know our last name is angel, but metaphysically, we are angels, and so we are human beings. And so you are gonna be human beings even in prayer, and you're gonna have distractions. So even during the rosary, when we pray it as a family, oh, it's chaos, you guys. It is not like we're sitting around perfect little angels everywhere. It's like. It is. Our house is chaotic during even the rosary. It's not even just kids picking there. It's like literally throwing around their rosary, hitting each other. I mean, it's nuts, but. But it's worth it. It is worth it.

C (33:43)

And surrendering that.

A (33:44)

Yes, and surrendering that and being okay, like, this is not going to be like this how it is forever. So when Bobby and I first start, when we were first dating, we had to have a discussion. How do we like praying alone and how do we want to pray together? And we, you know, we talked about, you know, he likes the liturgy of the hours. I love reading scripture, and I actually like doing a rosary by myself, but I will. We will do rosaries together. We'll do novenas together. We'll pray with each other, over each other for different. Different times. You know, that we need prayer. So we just had to have that conversation. And guess what for? In different stages of our lives, in our marriage, as each kid, our prayer lives have changed, and even how we've prayed alone has changed how we pray together. Then as kids get older, we're like, how do we pray as a family? So we have like an evening devotion. We try to do an evening devotion after dinner where we have scriptures that we like to go over that we've memorized. We pray a divine mercy chaplet, or we pray some decades of the rosary. And that will continue to change as our kids get older, because right now our kids are ranged from 11 to 2. And as they get older, they'll be able to pray more decades of the rosary. We'll be able to do different things. So every family in different stages can discern these kind of things. It doesn't all have to look like us. It can look different. And what do we like to do apart? What do we like to do together? And it just needs to be talked about.

B (35:09)

Communication.

A (35:10)

Yeah. Saves everything.

C (35:11)

Saves nations.

A (35:12)

Saves nations.

B (35:15)

A last kind of invitation, I think, you know, or a last kind of sort word of encouragement, praying, you know, the rosary every day for it. It is a habit that we have to build up to. And there's a. There can be like a monotony to it. There can be some struggles with discipline. There can be struggles with distraction. There's a lot of ways in which, as you kind of said, like, we come to this as human beings living in real life, in real context, with real sort of human struggles. And we're just not angels, you know, And God knows that. I really do believe that, like a sincere and our best offering is a pleasing offering to the Lord, even if it's an imperfect offering. He kind of makes it perfect or it's received perfect by the love of the Father. So just for those who are praying or those who are maybe struggling to pray or struggling kind of with getting to, like, getting concerned if they're doing it right or they're struggling with discipline or they're struggling with distraction, any just last words of encouragement about their own, like, the value of it and, like, why persevere? And maybe how to persevere.

C (36:12)

What comes to mind is that it's working, it's doing something. And I think, to use an exercise metaphor, like, when you first start out, maybe you see a lot of improvement right away, and it's exciting, it's new, but then there's a monotony. There's a plateau point, and it can just feel like going through the motions, and yet something's happening. The more you're showing up, the more of a routine it's becoming. Growth is happening, even at a very microscopic level. And so I think sometimes we're all just products of the culture. And this time period we're in where if we don't see physical results, if it's not exciting, if I don't get the warm fuzzies, then it's easy to just trail off and fade off, to remember that there are spiritual things happening. There are things happening in my soul, in my character, and just showing up and offering what I can. It's working. Is what I would give to anyone who might be hitting a plateau, hitting a point of struggle or distraction or should I keep this up? Should I keep going? It's working. It's doing something.

A (37:24)

Yeah. I would say, know thyself, because Bobby is a melancholic. And melancholics, he's just like a steady worker, right? He. He does things, and he's just one day at a time steady worker. And I'm a sanguine. I am like the biggest squirrel, and I'm like a blitzer. So, like, I am such a procrastinator. I'll procrastinate till last second. Then I will get things done. And so I do that, even with prayer, with books. Like, I'll start seven, eight books, and then I won't finish any of them. Bobby finishes every. You know, so knowing yourself is very helpful. Knowing, like, sanguines and phlegmatics are a little more adhd, and we're a little more squirrely, and we're more procrastinators. Those who are melancholics and colics Maybe struggle a little more with scrupulosity. Perfectionism, Perfectionism. It's good to know yourself and these are like the temperaments because when you do, you even see how it affects your prayer life. And when it comes to the rosary, I do these 54 day rosary novenas and I blitz it and then I'm like, I'm so tired. Oh, want to do another rosary again? And, and so what Bobby just said, even just the little, like I love the phrase poco a poke a little by little, just do it. Even do a little bit right? Just, just show up and do that. We, I can even see it in our working out. Bobby is so good at working out every day. And then I, I get really excited and I start working out and then I don't do it for months and then I get into it again. It's just our personalities. It's funny to. When you know yourself, you see your pitfalls and you see your strengths. And so it's good to know that even with the rosary and things that you maybe want to do daily, it's good to know, okay, are there places for me that are easier? So for me going to daily mass is good because I actually have to go somewhere. Like I actually have to go to church and it happens at a certain time and I can't procrastinate that. And so maybe that's where I'm going to pray my rosary. Maybe that's where I'm going to pray my morning prayer. It's just, it's helpful to have kind of some plan and know yourself well and where in the time of day things work best and do you have to go somewhere to do it or is are you fine at home? You know, I don't know, it's just, it's just figuring out your little plan for yourself and how your personality, where you do well, where you don't do well.

B (39:33)

Some dramatic, very significant doors have opened and graces have happened in my life that had never happened before that I can't help but kind of have some sort of thought that, you know, people praying and this rosary in the year thing is already working in my own life. But also there's a way in which like our prayers and how we are praying like are for the whole church. We're persevering for our own growth and holiness. But also like when we are praying and we're praying the rosary, it is on behalf of like the whole church and for all the people of God and we're winning grace for everybody. And you know, you shared, you know, Jackie, you're praying the 54 day novena and somehow like God's grace was at work, you know, in Bobby's life and bringing you together. And what I shared at the very, very like, you know, at the very beginning is that I had my conversion kind of out of nowhere, October of 2003. So I was a freshman in college, October of 2003, and I was just, it just kind of happened. Whereas, like I believe it needs to affect my whole Life. October of 2002 is when John Paul II began the year of the Rosary, put out his apostolic exhortation on the Rosary. And that ended in October of 2003. So it was right at the end of the year of the Rosary that I had my conversion. And I can't help but think that my conversion and really like my vocation in priesthood was the fruit of a lot of people's prayers. And so my encouragement to everybody is to continue to persevere in prayer for our own growth and holiness, but also with confidence that these prayers are being answered, that they are working particularly on behalf of, you know, the needs of the whole world. So before we kind of bring it in for a final landing, any last words?

A (41:14)

I just. Our lady loves us and she is such a powerful intercessor. And the amount of grace. Just what you said, Father. When I pray the different mysteries, this is part of the 54 day Rosary Novena is that the joyful mysteries are white roses. And so I imagine every Hail Mary, I'm like saying, Hail Mary, full of grace. I'm like smelling this beautiful white rose and I'm handing it to Our Lady. And then as I'm saying Holy Mary, Mother of God, I just imagine she's taking the petals and they're pouring like grace into the heart of either me or the person I'm praying for. The luminous mysteries are yellow roses, the sorrowful are red roses. And then the glorious are like it says, like white roses tinged with yellow and red. And I have such a visual prayer and an imaginative prayer and it just so beautiful me to, to see that every Hail Mary is a rose to Our Lady. And in the novena it's like you're like making a crown of roses for her. So the whole rosary is like this beautiful crown of roses. And so for anyone who is an imaginative prayer, I love imagining that and just seeing the grace. When I pray for grace for people, I just imagine God's pouring that grace into their hearts and it is, it's efficacious. It's what Bobby said. It is effective. It's actually happening. When we pray, mountains are being moved. When you have faith and you pray, you are literally moving mountains. And that could be the mountains of someone's heart. It could be the mountains of your own heart. So just know that, gosh, prayer is so efficacious and that grace is really coming. And Our lady is such a powerful source of grace. So that's. I just want to leave that with.

C (42:45)

People and that we're praying for those who've stopped praying. That that appeal was made to me when I was discerning the priesthood. We had to pray morning prayer and evening prayer, liturgy of the hours, which I still try to do morning prayer, at least every day. And that was pitched to me was like, on days where you feel dry, your heart's not really in it. You're just going through the motions. Remember, we're also praying for the world, for family members and friends who've fallen away, who've stopped praying, people that don't know the Lord at all. So if you're looking for motivation, consider that it's not just ourselves. We're also praying for the whole body of Christ and for the world and for those who are far from the Lord and for them to have those mountains of their heart moved, stony hearts to be broken open. And Mary is absolutely interceding for us and with us all along the way.

B (43:38)

Amen. Well, beautiful, Jackie and Bobby, thank you. I'm glad we were able to connect here. And thanks everybody who has continued to be on this journey and praying along. It's working. It's working. So we will. We'll continue the journey.

A (43:52)

Poco, poco.

B (43:53)

All right. God bless you.