Being with Charlie Kirk in His Final Moments & Debunking Candace Owens | Frank Turek

Summary

The Rubin Report — December 16, 2025

Episode: Being with Charlie Kirk in His Final Moments & Debunking Candace Owens
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Frank Turek (Christian apologist, author, president of CrossExamine.org)

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Dave Rubin sits down with Frank Turek to reflect on the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, Turek’s close friend and mentee. They discuss the harrowing moments immediately following the attack, the spread of conspiracy theories—particularly those promoted by Candace Owens—fractures within the political right, and Turning Point USA's struggle with public perception since Charlie’s death. Ultimately, the discussion shifts to themes of legacy, leadership, and forgiveness during a turbulent holiday season.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Frank Turek’s Account of Charlie Kirk’s Final Moments

Frank provides a firsthand, heartbreaking description of the immediate aftermath of the assassination.

• Details from the Scene:

  • Frank tried to resuscitate Charlie after he was shot, working with the security team to provide CPR until they reached the hospital ([00:16], [02:56]).
  • “He wasn’t looking at me. He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed. He was...” ([02:56], Frank Turek)
  • Doctors confirmed Charlie was killed instantly by a shot likely impacting his brain stem ([00:00], [02:56]).

• On the Speculation and Rumors:

  • Frank deeply objects to the flood of conspiracy theories, particularly those promoted online ([00:15], [02:56]).
  • He criticizes Candace Owens by name, listing several far-fetched groups alleged to be involved and concluding, “It strains credulity to think all those people work together, which means…most of what she’s saying, if not all, has to be false.” ([00:15], Frank Turek)

2. Fracturing on the Political Right and Charlie’s Legacy

Dave and Frank unpack the impact of Charlie’s death on right-wing unity and his personal principles.

• On Betrayal of Charlie’s Wishes:

  • Dave expresses concern over Tucker Carlson’s platforming of Nick Fuentes, someone Charlie explicitly did not want involved ([06:36]).
  • Dave: “I’ve desperately tried to honor his legacy, and I don’t know if it’s working.” ([06:36], Dave Rubin)

• Charlie’s Character:

  • Frank, along with anecdotes from Josh Hammer, praises Charlie’s humility and thirst for learning from others ([02:56], [07:20]).
  • “The only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility.” ([02:56], Frank Turek)
  • Dave and Frank agree that they both learned from Charlie more than they gave ([07:59]).

• Ongoing Slander and Division:

  • Frank cites the biblical proverb condemning those who “stir up dissension among brothers,” emphasizing the damage of baseless accusations in the movement ([08:01]).

3. Faith, Slander, and Dealing with Lies

The conversation turns to how a faith-based approach can help process grief and public chaos.

• Spiritual Perspective:

  • Frank frames the lies and slanders as stemming “from the pit of hell,” citing Satan as both a liar and a murderer ([09:15]).
  • He recounts being accused of signaling the shooter and the FBI’s investigation, mocking the absurdity:
    “Were you signaling the shooter? I said, yeah, I was telling him to steal second base.” ([09:15], Frank Turek)

• Turning Point USA's Response:

  • Dave asks if TPUSA could have done anything differently. Frank says he doesn't know if there was a better solution:
    • “At some point they just decided...we're going to have to at least address it. And then they invited her to come on the show, and she, she declined after saying, 'name the time, name the place.'” ([11:15], Frank Turek)
  • Frank is especially upset that attacks are now targeting grieving family and staff.

4. Personal Accountability and Reflections on Candace Owens

The hosts discuss their personal histories with Candace Owens and the impact of her current behavior.

• Regrets and Reflections:

  • Dave shares that he was the first to “put [Candace] on a real primetime show” and introduced her to Charlie ([13:07]-[13:50]).
  • “I really think when I meet my maker one day I'll have to answer for that…maybe I should have saw.” ([13:07], Dave Rubin)

• Candace Owens’ Talent and Current Path:

  • Frank says he prays for Candace, acknowledging her talent but lamenting her latching onto destructive conspiracy theories ([14:13]).
  • Both note the disproportionate harm these accusations have caused:
    • “Not all these people can be involved in this, Dave. And yet she keeps going on and on about all these different conspiracy theories and yet people are getting death threats over it.” ([14:13], Frank Turek)
    • “I was there trying to save him. He's my friend, you know, it's just, it's crazy.” ([14:13], Frank Turek)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frank Turek’s Reflection on Charlie’s Death:
  “He wasn’t looking at me. He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed.” ([02:56])

• On Conspiracy Theories:
  “They can't all be implicated in this. It strains credulity to think all those people work together, which means...most of what she's saying, if not all, has to be false.” ([00:15], Frank Turek)

• On Personal Regret (Dave Rubin on Candace Owens):
  “I really think when I meet my maker one day I'm gonna have to answer for that. Like, I didn't see something that maybe I should have saw.” ([13:07])

• On Charlie’s Character:
  “The only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility.” ([02:56], Frank Turek)
  “I learned more from him.” ([07:59], Dave Rubin)

• On Slander and Lies:
  “This is coming from the pit of hell, because Satan is a liar and a murderer, and both those things have been done in Charlie's life.” ([09:15], Frank Turek)

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Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• 00:00–01:36 — Frank gives the timeline and medical details of Charlie Kirk’s shooting and his final moments.
• 02:56–06:36 — Frank recounts the hours and days leading up to the shooting, Charlie’s character, and criticisms of misinformation online.
• 06:36–08:01 — Dave and Frank discuss political fallout, unity, and the emotional toll of slander within the right.
• 09:15–10:32 — Frank discusses the spiritual battle and conspiracy theories personally aimed at him and others.
• 11:15–13:07 — Analysis of TPUSA’s attempts to refute conspiracy theories; internal frustration with ongoing attacks.
• 13:07–14:41 — Rubin and Turek reflect on personal history with Candace Owens and the lasting effects of the current chaos.

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is intimate, candid, and at times raw, with both men wrestling vocally with grief, regret, and a sense of duty to honor true legacy amidst a cascade of misinformation. Frank Turek’s steadfastness in faith provides both a narrative anchor and a challenge to listeners: to resist division and slander, and to pursue grace and truth, especially “when you don’t have evidence.” The episode closes with hopeful encouragements toward love, decency, and truth—especially timely for the Christmas season.

Transcript

[Frank Turek]

We later learned from the doctor he was killed instantly. He didn't feel a thing because it essentially went into his neck and hid his. Probably his brain stem. And so he was gone already. But we did whatever we could to try and stop the bleeding.

[Blake]

And.

[Frank Turek]

And I tried CPR on him, you know, just to. You had to try, right? I mean, and then we all know what happened. I mean, they did get a pulse when we got to the hospital, but that's just because his body was strong. You know, you can do that even though the guy's already gone. So the only saving grace is he was killed instantly. And at this point, there's really good evidence that Tyler Robinson did this. And I think just about. I can't say everything, but most of what you're hearing online is just categorically false. Candace Owens, conspiracy theories, faults. Maybe she has one or two things right. But, Dave, so far from her, we've heard the Egyptians are involved, the Israelis are involved, Trump did it, Turning Point did it. Mikey McCoy, McCoy. The French did it. I thought all the French did was surrender. Dave, in any event, everybody has been implicated in this. They can't all be implicated in this. It's strange credulity to think all those people work together, which means, despite pure logic, most of what she's saying, if not all, has to be false. Why don't people see this?

[Dave Rubin]

All right, I'm Dave Rubin, and joining me is a prominent Christian apologist, author, and president of crossexamine.org my friend, Frank Turek. Welcome back to the Rubin Report.

[Blake]

Dave, always great being with you, and it was especially good seeing you at Charlie's memorial. You came all the way from Miami to Phoenix. I know everybody appreciates.

[Frank Turek]

Thank you for being there.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, it was an incredibly. Well, thank you for speaking that day, and it was an incredibly moving day. And actually, why don't I give the audience a little insider info at the moment, which is that we are taping this right now on December 10, 2025. And it didn't hit me until this morning when I was doing my live show, that it's three months to the day since Charlie was assassinated. Now, I wanna spend most of our time together today talking about Christmas and talking about Jesus and the reason for. However, I think we should probably get into a little bit about what happened that day and some of the subsequent events, because you were not only with Charlie that day, you were quite literally with him in his last moments in the car. So I know you've talked a whole bunch about this, but maybe you could just kind of recap a slightly shorter version of that, then we can talk a little bit about some of what's transpired over the three months. And then I really do wanna focus on Christmas and love and decency and all of those things.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. Thank you, Dave. You know, Charlie considered me somewhat of a mentor because I've been going to college campuses for many years, providing evidence that Christianity is true and then answering questions of students. So he contacted me about five and a half years ago to help him out. Now, as you know, Dave, it can be difficult to mentor somebody smarter than you, but not with Charlie, because the only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility. So the few things that I knew that he didn't know, he wanted to know. And the reason I was with him that day to. Is because this summer we spent four. I took four trips to Phoenix to help him get ready for this upcoming college tour. And he. We. We were together for a couple of days before this event, and he said, hey, Frank, why don't you just come with me to the event? Just see how it goes. And then he and I were supposed to be together at Berkeley on November 10th. And of course, he remains with Jesus. And it was Rob Schneider and I that went to Berkeley. I think you probably saw some of the craziness going on there. Yep. In any event, I'm standing 25ft from him when the shot rang out. And I, Dave, I feared this was going to happen at some point. I really did. I feared that somebody was going to take a shot at Charlie. In fact, when we were heading into the event, we had some footage from above. Originally, I thought it was drone footage, but it may not have been drone footage because there was a building above us that you could. And a walkway. You could have easily put your cell phone over and, and taken drone footage or footage from above. And there was such a crowd there. An hour before, I said to Charlie, charlie, I don't like this place. There are too many buildings. And he just kind of shrugged it off because he was brave. He knew he had to put himself in harm's way to reach people. You just can't be completely secure. He loved people and he wanted them to know the truth. So he put himself out there. And when that shot rang out, I said to myself, if it ever happens, do whatever you can. Just try and do whatever you can to help him. So I. I went with the security team and just got in the car and, and tried to revive him. But Dave, he wasn't looking at me. He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed. He was. We later learned from the doctor, he was killed instantly. He didn't feel a thing because it essentially went into his neck and hid his. Probably his brain stem. And so he was gone already. But we did whatever we could to try and stop the bleeding. And I tried CPR on him, you know, just to. You had to try, right? I mean, and then we all know what happened. I mean, they did get a pulse when we got to the hospital, but that's just because his body was strong. You know, you can do that even with the guy's already gone. So the only saving grace is he was killed instantly. And at this point, there's really good evidence that Tyler Robinson did this. And I think just about. I can't say everything, but most of what you're hearing online is just categorically false. Candace Owens, conspiracy theories false. Maybe she has one or two things right. But, Dave, so far from her, we've heard the Egyptians are involved, the Israelis are involved, Trump did it, Turning Point did it. Mikey McCoy. McCoy. The French did it. I thought all the French did was surrender. Dave, in any event, everybody has been implicated in this. They can't all be implicated in this. It's strange credulity to think all those people work together, which means, just by pure logic, most of what she's saying, if not all, has to be false. Why don't people see this?

[Dave Rubin]

Frank, what do you think Charlie would think about the fallout three months later? The fact that the right has become so frayed? The fact that somebody like Tucker Carlson, who I think he considered a friend, ushered in Nick Fuentes, who was the only person that Charlie did not want to be part of this movement, who was actively trying to destroy everything that Charlie created. I mean, those are basically his words. I don't even wanna repeat his words when he said that, because it was so vile how he talked about, you know, impress, impregnating Charlie's baby, Turning Point, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think he would think about all this? I've desperately tried to honor his legacy, and I don't know if it's working.

[Blake]

I know what he would think, because the day before he was murdered, I was in a meeting with him. And Josh Hammer can verify this. He was part of it via Zoom, and a couple of folks in Israel were on the call as well. And the whole premise of the call, Dave, was how can I answer questions better on campus when people bring up the Israeli Hamas conflict? He just Wanted to know their insights. Because Charlie was a sponge. You know this, Dave. I mean, he had humility, and he knew that people knew things he didn't know, and he wanted to know what those things were. That's why I wasn't his only mentor. He had mentors all over the place, so. I mean, you were a friend of his. I'm sure he learned so much from you, too.

[Dave Rubin]

I learned more from him.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Blake]

So. Me too. That's. You know, but the point here is that what's going on now, trying to slander people, trying to say that Charlie was on their side or this side or that side, when they didn't have access to Charlie, is false. And it's very, very disuniting. The proverb says, one thing the Lord hates is when you stir up dissension among the brothers, especially when you don't have evidence.

[Frank Turek]

And that's what's going on, Dave.

[Dave Rubin]

So where do you think this is coming from? I mean, this is gonna sound corny, or maybe not to you. Maybe it'll sound like the loftiest thing I could say, but I've actually, as it relates to this, Charlie's life and legacy, I personally have tried to act more Christlike. I'm sure I'm failing constantly, but I've tried to have my better angels with me and not be part of the fight. I'm not saying I've never been part of it, and it's just the nature of this business. But to watch so many people release his text messages for political purposes, to make. Make up things, to. To use that man's life and. And to do it overnight, in essence, I just. I. I honestly. And maybe it's also part of the season. I cannot fathom it right now.

[Blake]

Yeah, well, the problem is, is that this is coming from the pit of hell, because Satan is a liar and a murderer, and both those things have been done in Charlie's life. First of all, he was murdered. Second of all, there's been a lot of lies told about him. A lot of lies told about TP usa, a lot of lies told about the people involved who love Charlie. I mean, the. One of the first. One of the very first conspiracy theories was about me. The guy in the white hat. Yeah, yeah. You know, and the FBI actually checked that out, Dave. They called me and they said, we're sorry we have to ask you this, but were you signaling the shooter? I said, yeah, I was telling him to steal second base. I mean, it's the stupidest thing in the world, right? Like somebody needs to be signaled as to who Charlie Kirk is. Everyone knows he's the only guy sitting under the tent with the microphone, but yet people will believe the dumbest things. And unfortunately, it's causing a lot of dissension. And Erica, to her credit, is moving forward. I was with them recently in Mar a Lago at their donor event. She, despite the fact that she's grieving, is focused on the future, focused on what Charlie would want us to be focused on. That's the Lord in the country, and that's what she's doing, and that's what we're all gonna do.

[Dave Rubin]

There is a big turning point event that Tucker and many others will be at. Do you think Turning point itself should have done anything differently over these last three months? You know, they finally released a video sort of debunking some of Candace's nonsense. Do you think there was some other way to do this, or is it that turning point itself that Charlie's fingerprints were so all over everything there that they, for as incredible as Erica is, and I mean, she's a grieving mother on top of all of this, that she has to run this organization, that there no way to pro. There was nowhere, no one to properly message this or what do you do in the face of lies? Do you think there's anything else they could have done? And again, an awful lot could change between us taping this and when it airs.

[Blake]

I, I don't know. I don't, I don't know if there was any really good solution to this because as, as Blake said in his statement last week or now that people watch this a few weeks ago, the, the statement was essentially, well, we considered Candace the friend and we thought, you know, she wouldn't cons continue to do this, and we've reached out to her, but she just continued to go on and on and on. So, you know, on one hand, you say, hey, this is going to die down, because, you know, Candace is just asking some questions, and eventually this is going to die down. She'll, she'll get to the point where she knows that what she's saying is false, but that hasn't happened. So at some point they just decided, well, we're going to have to, we're going to have to at least address it. And then they invited her to come on the show, and she, she declined after saying, name the time, name the place. You know, so what are they to do? What are they to do? I, I, I don't know what else to do other than, okay, let's talk about it, and then she doesn't want to talk about it. So do you know? Look, Dave, I can't judge her motives. And I don't speak for Turning Point. I'm not an employee of Turning Point. I'm just friends with them. I love them. I love Erica. I love Charlie, as I know you did. I love the people involved. And. And one of the things I'm upset with. I don't care when people attack me. I'm upset when they attack Erica. I'm upset when they attack Mikey McCoy. Mikey McCoy on an ant. He's such a gentile loving soul, and yet they're implicating him somehow in the murder. It's crazy, Dave. Imagine if we sat here and said, you know what? I think Candace Owens is the real murderer. I think she was upset that Charlie cut her out of the big events. I think that Candace Owens really decided to have Charlie killed, and she was jealous of Erica, and she's bringing all this up to cover her tracks. Is that possible, Dave? Oh, that's possible. Do I have any evidence for it? No. And it would be ridiculous for me to suggest that without evidence. But that's what she's doing.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, it's funny, Frank, I don't know if you know a bit of my history with Candace, but, you know, I was basically the first one to put her on a real primetime show. And when she was kind of, nobody had a little channel. And I joke with people now because everyone always asks me about this, and it's like. And it's a kind of a joke, but it's kind of not. I really think when I meet my maker one day I'm gonna have to answer for that. Like, I didn't see something that maybe I should have saw. I don't know what to do with that.

[Blake]

Well, hey. Hey, Charlie. The first person I asked Charlie about when he. When he called me, when he. He reached out to me first five and a half years ago, I said, tell me about your organization. Tell me what you do. Who do you produce? First person, he said, was Candace Owens.

[Dave Rubin]

Because, you know that I introduced them.

[Blake]

I did not know that. No.

[Dave Rubin]

I introduced them at a David Horowitz. Another person she's turned on. He's no longer with us, unfortunately. One of his Freedom center events at the breakers in West Palm. I was with Candace. We. Charlie down the hall. She said, I'd love to meet him. I introduced them. They stood about 20ft away from me for about 10 minutes. She walks back up to me and says, I just got a job with Turning Point. I swear.

[Blake]

I'll tell you, I pray for Candace because I think she's an enormous talent directed properly. But she's gone off the deep end. I mean, not all these people can be involved in this, Dave. And yet she keeps going on and on about all these different conspiracy theories and yet people are getting death threats over it. Mikey McCoy, even I get emails. You never know what can happen to you. You ought to repent. I'm going, dude, I was there trying to save him. He's my friend, you know, it's just, it's crazy.

[Dave Rubin]

If you're looking for more soulful vibes to spark your inner guru, check out our spirituality playlist. And if you want to watch full interviews on a wide variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist. All right over here. And to get notified of all future videos, be sure to subscribe and click the notification bell.