Chilling Details of How Hamas Treated Hostages in Captivity

Summary

The Rubin Report: "Chilling Details of How Hamas Treated Hostages in Captivity"

Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Juan Selene (Hostage survivor from Nova Festival)
Date: October 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

This raw and powerful episode features Dave Rubin in conversation with Juan Selene, a survivor of the October 7 Hamas attack on the Nova Festival. Juan shares her harrowing experience of being kidnapped, the agonizing 54 days of captivity in Gaza, and the brutality she—and other hostages—faced at the hands of Hamas. Through intimate storytelling, Selene sheds light on the mental and physical abuse endured, the psychological warfare, the desperate moments, and the resilience she found in her faith and hope for survival.

The conversation is an unflinching look at the lived realities behind headlines, moving beyond statistics to individual stories that speak to the cost of terror, the plight of hostages still in captivity, and the urgent plea for the world to understand the human toll.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Attack and Abduction

• Selene’s Background and Arrival at Nova: Juan introduces herself as a 41-year-old jewelry designer, attending her first festival as a vendor, recounting the strange bad hunches before the attack.
  “The entire night was bad hunches that I couldn’t explain.” (00:04)
• The Onset of Chaos: At 6:29am, rockets signaled the start of unprecedented violence.
  “Two rockets in the sky... and then, like many testimonies I’m sure you heard, there was non stop bombing—rockets, grenades, RPGs.” (01:05)
• The Panic and Escape Attempts: Juan describes the confusion, disbelief, and desperate attempts to escape, including hiding in trees and being shot at while fleeing in a car.
  “Nobody taught us how to be that hopeless... it was complete chaos.” (02:45)
• Separation and Capture: After multiple terrifying encounters—three times narrowly escaping—Juan is ultimately captured after pretending to be an Arab, using her Arabic-language necklace as a ruse.
  “I pretended to be an Arab... I had an Arabic necklace on my neck... trying to protect my life...” (07:47)

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In Captivity: Abuse, Survival, and Psychological Torture

• Physical and Mental Torture: Hostages faced daily beatings, near starvation, lack of medical care, and near-constant threats.
  “I was beaten up on my head, my leg, everywhere... being threatened again and again and again.” (12:41, 22:35)
• The Loss of Humanity: Hostages were treated as less than human, with personal identities stripped away.
  “They don’t see me as a human being. I’m just flesh and blood. That’s it.” (12:41)
• Psychological Warfare: Interrogations were relentless, and captors deliberately fostered confusion and despair.
  “The worst of the worst was the mental abuse... every single day investigation, conversation, that you think he’s on your side, but then he turns on you.” (24:45)
• Daily Reality: Juan recounts the lack of food and hygiene, enduring infection, lice, and rationed water.
  “I lost 8 kilos in 54 days... there were days this is it, you have one half of pita and that’s it.” (24:02) “20 milliliters of salty water... that’s the budget for two days.” (29:25)
• The Struggle for Dignity: Even kindness from captors was hollow and manipulative, with apparent human gestures overshadowed by overall cruelty.
  “He started taking the spikes out of my hand... when I said ‘ow’ he said ‘shh, no screaming’... sit like a robot and wait for him to finish.” (31:00)
• Captivity with Other Hostages: Initially forbidden from communicating, Juan became a guardian for a young fellow prisoner.
  “I need to be her mother now. And that was the situation in every house.” (20:47)

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The Manipulation of Reality and the Outside World

• Hostages Used as Human Shields: Hostages were kept in civilian homes near missile launchers, putting Gazan families at risk.
  “The houses were exploding not only from our rockets, there were missile launchers next to the houses... using us as human shields.” (25:31)
• Propaganda and Lies: Hostages were told lies about their families and the situation in Israel to break their spirits.
  “They told me that everything was bombed and that I don’t have a family to come back to. Nobody’s fighting for me.” (40:15)

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The Rescue and Coming Home

• Build-Up and Deceit: Juan’s release was drawn out, repeatedly told she would go home—only to be pulled back. On the final day, she describes the arduous journey to the Red Cross, and the overwhelming fear that even this was another trick.
  “They fooled me from that point on three times that I’m going home...” (35:04)
• The Pain of Liberation: Juan realized she was filmed globally upon release, hugging the Red Cross driver out of gratitude—then questioning why the organization did not do more to visit or advocate for the hostages.
  “Why didn’t you come to see us?... You're allowed to visit the children—but not the hostages?” (39:18)
• First Joy and Relief: Touching her family for the first time brought indescribable relief and gratitude.
  “It’s beyond miracle. To be able to hug my family again… beyond the best achievement of my life.” (46:40)

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Reflections on Faith, Humanity, and Hope

• Faith as Survival: Faith was a critical sustaining element for Juan and fellow hostages.
  “That’s the one thing that really puts a smile on my face... how much faith held them every single day.” (49:26)
• On the Nature of Humanity: Juan questions the nature of humanity as displayed—or denied—by her captors, and emphasizes the need for education and moral clarity on both sides.
  “What is humanity?... They need to be educated all over again.” (33:18)
• Message to the World: Pleads for honesty, awareness, and shared humanity, criticizing ideologies that ignore real suffering for political narratives.
  “What do you expect? What do you want? That's it. It's that simple.” (42:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Describing the initial chaos:
  “Nobody taught us how to be that hopeless.” — Juan Selene, (02:45)
• On surviving capture:
  “I pretended to be an Arab... I had an Arabic necklace on my neck... trying to protect my life.” (07:47)
• On daily existence in captivity:
  “The worst of the worst was the mental abuse... every single day investigation... thinking they’re on your side, but then they turn on you.” (24:45)
• On humanity:
  “What is humanity? ...He gave me a smile in the morning, but I didn’t get back home, I didn’t get food…” (28:24)
• On education and cycles of violence:
  “They need to be educated all over again. Any person that has something bad to say about that situation needs to be educated all over again—from our side and their side, too.” (33:18)
• Faith and gratitude:
  “I found myself tons of time saying thank you every day because it’s not obvious I survived another day... the will of life, that’s what helped me.” (51:16)
• On political hypocrisy:
  “I see the gay community supporting Gaza, and I’m just asking—do you know that they don’t support you? Our country supports you 100%.” (43:09)
• Final message:
  “Please choose. What’s your goal in the morning? What do you want? … If something is bad, try to change it to the better, not fight against it by doing the same thing.” (52:44)
• Dave Rubin’s closing admiration:
  “You are without question the most extraordinary person that I’ve ever chatted with, period.” (52:44)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:04: Introduction to Juan’s background and the Nova Festival
• 01:05: Attack sequence: rockets, panic, chaos
• 05:13: Hiding, confusion, and attempts at escape
• 09:55: Captured, pretending to be Arab, physical injuries
• 12:41: Torture, dehumanization, and survival strategies
• 17:36: Arrival in Gaza, hospital, being treated as a soldier-hostage
• 20:13: Life with fellow hostages, strict restrictions
• 24:45: Mental abuse and psychological warfare
• 29:25: Water and food deprivation, calculations for survival
• 31:00: Physical abuse disguised as “help”
• 35:04: Release process and betrayals
• 39:18: Questioning Red Cross, realization of public exposure
• 40:15: Lies told by captors about Israel and family
• 42:50: Plea for perspective, criticism of selective activism
• 46:07: Reunion with family, the emotional aftermath
• 49:26: Faith, acceptance, and finding meaning
• 52:44: Host’s closing praise and gratitude

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Tone and Language

• Intimate, Raw, and Unfiltered: Juan speaks openly about terror, loss, faith, and resilience—with urgency and vulnerability.
• Reflective and Analytical: Both Juan and Dave periodically reflect on broader questions of humanity, politics, and societal division.
• Empathetic and Emotional: Many moments find both guest and host close to tears, underlining the gravity of the narrative.

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Summary & Value for Listeners

This episode stands out as an essential testimonial to the enduring suffering—and heroism—of hostages in the Israel-Hamas conflict. Juan Selene’s detailed, personal narrative transcends news reports, providing an honest, immersive look at survival, trauma, and the need for empathy and action. It’s a moving call to compassion, self-examination, and advocacy for those still waiting to come home.

Transcript

[A]

It didn't quite make sense.

[B]

Yeah. Well, are you ready to start?

[A]

All right, we're good. Okay.

[B]

Okay. We are starting. Welcome to our fight. So my name is Juan Selene and I'm 41 years old currently. And I was kidnapped from the Nova Festival, being held captive for 54 days, which I, you know, these days I'm. I'm not saying the amount of days because I feel like awkward to say 54 compared to 60. 603 days, which is unacceptable in no way. But on October 7, which is what I live till today, for us, it's not year and a half pass by. It's the same day every single day till everybody will come back. I was at Inova. I came as a vendor and basically came first time to a festival, first time showing my jewelry in that, you know, size and amount. I was working on it for day and night for three weeks, thinking that this is, you know, this is gonna be the great opening and this is me starting my new journey, you know. And the entire night was bad hunches that I couldn't explain. Bad hunches that I couldn't explain. There was a video that was posted a few months ago that shows some of the footage of us that night. And I saw my body language. I was so like, you know, close body language. I was not dancing, I was on the side. I could not explain what I was going through, you know. And then at 6:29, everything shattered. Two rockets in the sky. And like many testimonies that I'm sure you heard, there was non stop bombing. Rockets, grenades, RPGs, everything that you can think of was on there at that time.

[A]

And how quickly from the rockets they shot? The rockets first, I assume, and then broke through. So was it just like explosions everywhere.

[B]

And then it was rockets was supposed to be, you know, to be confusing us. Yeah, to not know that at the same time they shot those two rockets, they entered Israel at some, in some points and then just waited for everything to become a chaos. You know, they would not expect that everything will be open and they will come. And they were not expected the amount of people that were at the Nova Festival. So it felt that they were celebrating their big own festival, you know. And for us, for me especially, it was. I was at the nova festival till 5, at 8, 5 to 8 in morning, which is. Which means that at that point we are completely surrounded. Not knowing, rejecting everything that I see. I served the army 22 years ago. I know what I hear, I know what I feel. And I keep resisting it that cannot be happening, you know, and we didn't run at the beginning. And at that point we didn't know that there were terrorists on the other side of the festival. And one of my friends, he tried to protect me as long as he could. And he gave me that cue that I was so afraid to hear. And he said, start to run as fast as possible. And like I say in my lectures, you know, nobody taught us how to be that hopeless. And nobody taught us how to maneuver or driving in a car between screaming people. And every time I say it was completely chaos. Because when a person having an anxiety attack, then the best tool for him is to look up for another reaction. And I saw some people laughing and I saw some people dancing, and I saw some people running and screaming. And it's like we didn't understood what is going on. You know, that's completely chaos. And that's it. That was me starting to run.

[A]

How long between the initial sounds that you heard, did you see actual terrorists coming through?

[B]

So during the story, I felt protected. I didn't see in my eyes the terrorists and the dead bodies, but the car that I was in with my friends running away, we were shot at the car. We see bullet holes on the car. They saw bodies, they saw the terrorists right behind us. We were trying to escape them for five hours. So it was like completely put in an effort for trying to save my life, not fighting them back at any point. And at one point we were completely lost. We didn't know where to go. Cause at any turn we took, we were shot at. And we managed to grab the police over the phone. And they gave us a command to get off the cars and go hide in the trees. But, you know, at that day, there were 45,000 calls to the police, which came to so many places in the country because they didn't have the amount of people to help us. So they didn't understand the situation. And the place that we were at, there was no place to hide. And they gave us the command to get off the cars, you know, and we were trying to hide. We were five people.

[A]

So you did get out of the car.

[B]

We got off the cars. We couldn't. We didn't know what to do. You know, every second you feel that this is gonna be over, right? It's gonna be over soon. And it's not. It's keeping on, keeping on, keeping on. And the amount of anxiety that I felt at that point almost exploded my brain. You know, I almost fell asleep because I couldn't Handle the situation. I was so terrified that it was okay, maybe I will fall asleep and it will be over. You know, it's a bad dream or something. And we were cleaning on each other. I don't know how to explain it, but.

[A]

Oh, nice to meet you.

[B]

This is one special person. If he wants to speak. This is Michel. This is Guy.

[A]

Dave. Nice to meet you.

[B]

This is Guy's father. And Guy was taken hostage and was murdered in Gaza.

[A]

And he's still in captivity.

[B]

He's still in Captivity, yeah.

[A]

Already 603 days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a shame.

[B]

And still counting, unfortunately.

[A]

God bless you. Thank you. Bye.

[B]

You know, when I see them, then my body start starting to shiver because when I'm telling their story, it's like I feel blamed that I got back home, you know, food. And it's not. It's not passing by us at no point of time, you know. Okay, so at that point, we were like cleaning on each other, thinking that, you know, the person sitting next to me, he must know what to do at that situation. But, you know, I saw all the hairs, like, goosebumps. And the guy that I was, like, counting on, he's scared. He's trying to protect his girlfriend. And I understand that. I'm by myself, you know, And I called my dad. I was trying to put myself really calm and telling him that this is not a joke. We are being shot at. We need to get off and go hide in the trees. But everything is okay. And that's the last word he heard from me because he couldn't understand. He thought that I'm being overdramatic, you know? And my mom called that I didn't want to answer because she's Moroccan. I'm afraid of her, you know. But she called and I texted her, I don't have a battery. I love you. And it's like I did, because I'm not. I don't want to say goodbye, you know, I'm not saying goodbye from nobody and really trusting that this thing will end. But then 40 minutes later, it's not only artillery sound anymore. We hear him screaming in Arabic and they're coming towards us. That's it. That's the point that you need to run as fast as possible. And I didn't see my friends anymore at one point. And the terrorist was right behind me holding an iron pipe, like, about to beat me up in my head. And I didn't have no other point. I had to jump from a high place, and I jumped and I hit my leg. And he Jumped after me, was about to beat me up. And I could never explain a person, no matter how much I tell this situation, what I felt inside, like something was controlling me at that point and reacting wore me because I couldn't, you know. And I pretended to be an Arab. That's what came out from my mouth. I had an Arabic necklace on my neck, which I got as a present from my jewelry suppliers. I'm a jewelry designer. And I was trying to protect my life by pretending to be an Arab and saying, my name is Stella. My name is Stella. And at one point he took the iron pipe down and he said, okay, enough. But then he took things from my pockets and he told me to go on the mountain. And I didn't realize I had two broken legs at that point. And it's like, you don't feel the pain, it's mine over body, fight or flight, it's mine if it's not mine, that you're not surviving this situation. And I climbed the mountain and he asked me some question and I don't know what happened, but he turned around and left. So in my story, I was caught three times. And at the first three times I managed to, I don't know, manipulate them with two broken legs, trying to protect my life, like standing still. I have one video from the first taken and there were two terrorists. And on the second time it was 10 terrorists.

[A]

What happened the second time?

[B]

I was by myself and it was a potato field. So it's like a huge area with no place to hide. It's just round and it's. I don't know how to say it in English, but it's really curly.

[A]

Yeah, like to cover the potatoes, you.

[B]

Cannot really run also. And I was completely exposed, not able to hide. And I heard screaming in Arabic again. And I saw this group of 10 Arabs, 10 terrorists running towards me. I had nothing to do. I just sat down and waited for them to come. And when they came again, something control over my head starts screaming. You have to do what he did at the first time. And I pretend to be an Arab again. It was like a lot of screaming. And between 10 to 15 minutes, you know, this whole situation, I don't remember so much about that situation except of the fact that at one point he asked me, where will he go? And I was like, you're releasing me, I'll go whenever. And I'm standing on two broken legs still, you know. And I think that the. They heard, like they thought that the army is coming because they heard an explosion and they ran away, and they left me in there. And that's it. I had no necklace on my neck anymore. I gave it as a present to try to manipulate again, doing whatever I can to take me out of this situation and survive with situations that I don't understand what is happening. Completely confused, you know? And I walked a few steps, and I chose to do the one thing that we were not allowed to do that day. And I screamed so loud for help. I thought that this is it, you know, I didn't see nobody. And then I heard screaming in Arabic from my back. I looked around, I looked at my back, and I see one mile away from me, 13 Hamas terrorists running towards me. And that was it. Something told me in my head, you have to let go. It's happening. And I remember, I answered, like, out loud, what is happening? And when they came, it was done. No talking. They pulled me from that tree, started to drag me, beat me up on the way. And one of them, he decided to rip off all of my jewelry from me. And he ripped everything from me. It was tons of jewelries on me. And at one point, he cut my hand off. And they understood that I'm stalling them. They pick me up, and something again told me in my hand, you have to let go. I mean, release all your muscles, release your mind, because this is a situation that I cannot even imagine or handle, you know?

[A]

Do you. Do you remember what. Were they. Were they saying anything to you? Were they saying anything to each other?

[B]

They were screaming so loudly. They were celebrating. And I remember from the body language that they're, like, not expecting. They're looking at me as a trophy, and they don't see me even as a woman, you know, they see me just as flesh and blood, as something that you have to eliminate or destroy or kill or whatever. They didn't even understood what to do with me. You know, at one point, they just took me, drugged me, and they don't have a car, so they dragged me by foot. And at one point, they understand that I'm stalling them, so they pick me up, they throw me out from one to another. They don't see me as a human being. I'm just flesh and blood. That's it. And at that point, I always say, you know, it's one after another, one worst case after another. And the worst of the worst is that they will find a car before somebody will find me. And that is happening. And at that point, we were 11 people inside that car, 10 men and me. And I didn't see nobody, no hostages, no people around. So I feel in my brain that this is all for me, you know, they caught me. My friends managed to run away and they caught me, you know, so starting to fight in my brain, what is happening now? My dad or alive, you know, and towards the way they were happy, beat me up on my head, in my leg, everywhere. And then at one point I said to myself, close your eyes. I don't want to see it. Like, I understand what is going to happen now. Like I said, I served in the army. I know the drill. And the worst of the worst is the entrance to Gaza. Because at that point, and I want to stop and say before that, I'm a person that was just seeking for peace before, you know, and even today, today I'm not using the word want my brothers and sisters back. But before that, I had Arab neighbors, I had Arab friends. I was in a coexisting living city in Beersheva. It's like we don't feel this situation that everybody is speaking about because everybody has the same rights. Everybody can walk in the street freely and everything is okay, you know. So I always say that if somebody will stop to check who's the people that they chose to kidnap, they will be blown away. Because all of them, most of us.

[A]

Because most of the.

[B]

Most of us are most of us as Arab, you know, even in the army, in the workplace, in life, you know, they're living between us. It's not, you know, foreign. My grandmother is Egyptian. She was speaking to me Arab till I was 17. It's not foreign for me. Yeah, wearing an Arabic necklace as a Jewish person, you know. But at that point I saw entrance to Gaza. The terrorist is being happy, pulling me by the hair, wanted me to open my eyes and see. And I saw 100 civilians, 100% of civilians celebrating me being kidnapped, me being brutally violently beaten up during the way. And they're happy and they're screaming, God is great and everything is okay. And the terror that I saw in their eyes was the minute that I chose to close my eyes again because I understood if this car will stop in the middle of the crowd, I'm done. And it happened. The car stopped and a few of the terrorists got out from the car. And I closed my eyes and I felt the crowd trying to pull me up. I resisted and everything is seconds, you know, and had no way to protect myself. Had my nails on me and I had a thought in my head that I will stack them on the person that I'm sitting On, I'm gonna use them as a human weight if they will try to pull me again. And I probably hurt him badly, I don't know, because he screamed if somebody closed the door. And I always say that that was another moment in October 7th that I'm counting as a save. You know, I was saved from a lynch, from being beaten up, from being killed by beating up. And I'm in the middle of Gaza saying, thank you for being saved. That's the situation from this point on. You know, the journey starts. Do you want to look around a little bit?

[A]

Yeah. So.

[B]

Ask me, whatever.

[A]

No, I. Okay, so you're out. You're now out. And they grab you, and then they immediately. And there's all these civilians and everyone's cheering and your legs are broken and all the stuff, and you speak out. Were you still trying? So at that point, you just decided not to speak anymore or try to plead?

[B]

It was just from that point on, had a journey till I got to the first house. I had 11 moves in 54 days and five different houses. And first place I went to is the hospital. And in the hospital, I saw about 30 Hamas terrorists inside a small room looking on top of me. One is taking off my shoes, one is taking off the thing from my pocket. And I'm saying to myself, I'm done. I'm going to be killed now. And I'm preparing myself to being killed, you know, and seconds, you know, passing by, and I see somebody's putting a cast on one of my legs, and I'm saying, okay, if you put a cast, I'm not being killed now. I have to put every effort that I can find to remember everything and to survive, you know? And from that point on, they took me to the first house. I was throwing into a small mattress covered with a sheet. And when they took the sheet off, I saw an investigator in front of my face, and he was happy. And he was constantly saying to me that God loves me and I was saved. And I couldn't understand what he was saying. And I was crying, you know, I was allowing myself still to cry at that point.

[A]

And he's speaking to you in Arabic.

[B]

Obviously, he was speaking to me in Arabic. I understood a little bit from what I remembered from my grandmother. And at that point, he grabbed my pants and he was angry and started asking, where do you serve? Where did you serve? And I was like, why are you asking me this question? I'm not a soldier. And that I understood what I was wearing. I was wearing green army, like, look like uniform and army boots. And I stopped crying immediately. And he considered me as a soldier from that point on. So my journey in this whole captivity situation was really bad for me because they thought I'm a soldier and I'm hiding information from them. And I'm 40 years old, so I must be, you know, an important officer. And why am I wearing uniform? And you need to deal with so many conspiracy that it's like I don't know even how to deal in this situation. What do I need to do to force you to believe that I'm saying the truth? You know, nothing helped. And with every word that I knew to say, they thought that I'm no Arabic fluently. And that was it for me. I was constantly behaved differently for me, you know, inside all the houses in there, right?

[A]

When you were moved from house to house, were you with any other people that were kidnapped? Or were you always.

[B]

So after two hours that I was in the house, understanding that I'm in a bad situation, they brought into the room this young girl, 18 years old, barefoot in her pajama, with long bright hair and bright eyes. And I was like this. She is not Arab for sure, but who is she? And they didn't let us talk for three days. We were not allowed to speak, we were not allowed to cry, we were not allowed to sing. We were allowed to sit and be still, you know, But I was trying to communicate with them immediately because, you know, in my head, I need to know who, what are you planning to do with me? And I need to know how to protect her because she was so young. Eventually I realized that this is Nogo vais, and she's 18 years old and she was kidnapped from her house in Beri, and her dad was murdered and still being kept hostage in Gaza. And her mother was also was taken hostage. And, you know, this is a situation that I'm in with this foreign child, you know, I need to be her mother now. And that was the situation in every house.

[A]

And you couldn't communicate with her in any way?

[B]

Not at the beginning. And they were sleeping with us in the room. They were always happy. They brought people from my side to see the price, you know, this is what we brought. Asking questions, telling about us stories, you know, using conspiracies. And all we need to do is being amen to every word they say, you know. So at one point, you understand that you need to release everything. This is not yours anymore. But I have one thing that is mine from the beginning till the end. That was my Mind and my faith, but that's it. They took my name, they took my freedom, they did whatever they want with me, you know, and that's it. You need to accept the situation. But in my head, the will to live was so much stronger for everything they tried to do with me. And, you know, I'm talking about situation because I was like the head communicator in the room. And constantly, every day was for me, starting from the beginning. I don't curse them, I don't yell. I don't do any bad behavior. I respect them. And I understand that I have to respect them because I want to be respected as well. And I want to leave, you know, but, you know, at one point, I had to entertain them for over 13 hours. I had to play with them cards, make them happy, make them laugh, you know, and I'm hungry. And at one point I probably said something wrong, which till today, I'm trying to understand what was it. But in seconds, there was a gun pointing to my head, being threatened again and again and again. And every day was that starting from zero, asking them, what do you want? Why are you so angry? Why are you so full of hate? You know, I mean, how do you. How does that support you in life? Why aren't you, you know, one. You know, I always say in my lecture that the difference between us and them, that also bad for us and also good for us. We are individuals. Every. Each and every one of us has different dreams and goals, and we are working for that. And that was get us involved as society, you know, but they get up every morning for 54 days, which. That what I saw, putting the carpet on the floor, taking their prayer. And in the prayer, you put in a purpose of elimination, extermination and hate. Why? And I couldn't understand that till the last day. I was trying to communicate with them. Being threatened with a gun, being beaten up, being abused, being starved. I was sitting there with two broken legs. I was sitting there with license on my head. And that amount that I cannot explain to you because I had everything that you can imagine in my head. So physically I was broken. I lost 8 kilos from my weight in 54 days. There were days that this is it. You have one half of pita and that's it. But you smell the food that they eat from the other room. I mean, you have food, and in the Korean, it says, you need to live equally like us. You know, even if you took somebody hostage, you need to live equally as him. And every time it was abuse in any way. But the worst of the worst was the mental abuse. Because every single day investigation, conversation, that you think that he's on your side now, but then eventually he take everything, all the information and pass it on to all the other people. So I don't know, I mean, I tried my best every single day.

[A]

And when they. So they're moving you around, was that because then the war started or in essence Israel went into Gaza and they just kept moving you guys and you just had no idea what was happening.

[B]

But you need to understand that the houses were exploding not only from our rockets, there were missile launchers next to the houses. And if they knew they're gonna launch, you know, missiles that die, they took us away from the window because they knew it's gonna be exploded on the second day, our window was shattered. And it was not because of us, you know. So I'm asking you, using us as human shields, you take your own people houses and you put us in, and then you put all the other people in, in danger, you know, why aren't you protecting them? Why aren't you using this amount of money that you got like few years ago and building shelters, you know, why aren't you giving them the way to be new education, you know, put new education in school? Why is everything against. And that's what I say to, you know, I met one pro Palestinian, really, really smart person from ucla and he has many followers after him. And I asked him one question, if you already have that power, why aren't you trying to communicate and combine and connect that this thing will not happen again to neither of the sides. Why are you still using this power for violence, for aggression, for the wrong purpose, you know, so I'm asking today, where are we going to? What are we trying to achieve by doing that? You know, and eventually I have my back, I have my people, I will be their back as much as I can, you know, because they took our freedom when we didn't try to fight them back, you know, and you'll see around so many exhibitions that explains how people feel. It's not belong to the place. It's like outside artists and they're trying to put their emotions, you know, in this situation that we cannot bear anymore. And if you ask every, each and every person in here in the square, they will tell you one thing. We just want our people back. That's it. None of us to get up in the morning and be in a war. Every one of us be sure of it. We want to leave. We like to Leave?

[A]

Yeah, it could be over tomorrow if they wanted it to be over tomorrow.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Was there any moment that you thought you were going to be rescued before you were rescued, or did you have any sense or was there anyone. Did you meet? Did any of them offer you any sympathy or try. Was there any one of them that was a little better to you or you sort of referenced that they. You had some that you could speak to and then they kind of turned on you? Did you see any humanity at any point? I don't even really care in some sense or.

[B]

You know, I really like that question because I have two faces for my answer. What is humanity? When I sat there and I looked at Hamza, which tried, maybe in his brain, maybe.

[A]

Are you talking about the UCLA guy?

[B]

No, no, no, no. I'm talking to one of the terrorists inside. I mean, one of the terrorists inside. He was trying to be good. Let's take that for example. What is humanity? If I'm hungry and no food is coming to me, and I'm looking at him and I'm saying, I'm hungry. And he said, well, Israel blocked the line of food, but I smell the food that they eat from the other room. So what is humanity? That. He gave me a smile in the morning. I didn't get back home. I didn't get the medical treatment that I needed. I didn't get food. I had days. I had one day that really. That was the day that I thought, everything will be done. I had food poison so severe that by the end of that day, I had 180 pulls. I couldn't stand, I couldn't raise my head. I couldn't do anything. And I was starting to say goodbye from my family. Do you know how much water I had in those days? 20 milliliters of salty water. But she told me that that's the budget for the next two days. So I need to calculate the water that I drink. So I told the other hostage, trying to, you know, showing her, you know, I'm strong. We will survive this situation. Don't worry. We'll drink one cap, one cap every hour, just to get the mouth wet, you know, and then I calculated it would be enough for two days. You know, that's the situation that we needed to be at. Did he gave me medical care at that situation? Did he heard my screams, that I couldn't scream because I was not allowed to scream? I couldn't cry because I was not allowed to cry. I hear testimonies of other hostages that were in the hospital with gunshots no anesthesia. Every single day. When they come to clean the wounds, no anesthesia. You feel everything. When they have the option to give you anesthesia and just to be clear.

[A]

So this is. They're eating fine. They're eating just fine. And that's.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, I'm looking on the small things. I had. I don't know how to say it, but I was covered, like, covered full. Covered with spikes. Because when I was hiding, I was on a spike. You don't feel anything really. But on the third day, I started to feel that, you know, I had infections in some places all over. And I asked him if I could. I didn't ask even. I was trying to take them out by myself. And he saw it from the side and he was smiling. He brought, you know, pinch. And I asked him if I can do it by myself because I know it's really painful, you know, and he was smiling. He said, no, give me your hands. And he started taking them one after another. And he didn't care that he'd taken my skin off, you know, with it. And when I said, ow, he said, shh, no screaming. So you need to sit down like this, like a robot, and wait for him to finish, you know, so what is humanity? That he left with me at some points, but then he shattered me with no hope to come back home. What is humanity that he brought me maybe one extra spoon to three people. Or when he gave me four showers in 54 days, when the shower is a bucket of water that I need to split the free people. So what is humanity when you have the option? They did it. They were clean. They looked at us every day. You know, they opened the door one day and one of the terrorists took the shirt and put it on his mouth. And I looked at him and I said, but you did it. You made this happen. We are not. He called us filthy. You know, we don't have the option to get clean. They don't understand that. That's why I always say they must be educated from the beginning to understand what is human being lives. And when I see one mother in Gaza, I saw this few days ago.

[A]

I was shocked about all her children.

[B]

No, not the nine children. One mother before that that nobody heard about. And I saw that video. It's not on his Instagram. Being so proud that her four children died when they tried to exploit themselves to kill other people. And she said she waited. She has two more grandchildren and she can't wait for them to die too. So I'm asking What am I fighting against? It will never meet because we. We celebrate life. We're trying to, you know, showing the living and the dead as alive. But you don't care about your own people. So what am I fighting with? And that's what I'm trying to tell. I mean, you know, at some point I feel sorry for them, that that's the life that they need to live. They don't have the option to dream, you know, I mean, no matter what I went through, and I'm telling you I was abused almost every day, I still tried to take one of the captors and to explain to him how Thailand looks like, because he never left the borders of Gaza. And I was trying to tell him that there are Palestinians in England, you know, and there are Palestinians all over the world. Why are you closing here? And at one point, I was doing him guided imagination, you know, I was trying to take him and his wife and his children to, you know, to the beach in Thailand. And his body language, you know, she raised up. And at one point, like a balloon, boom, fell down. And he says, no, Hamas will kill me. He doesn't have the option to think beyond the borders that he put in his mind. So, again, what am I fighting with? They need to be new. They need to be educated all over again. Any person that has something bad say about that situation need to be educated all over again from our side and their side too, you know. And.

[A]

So. So. All right, 54 days. Tell me about day 54.

[B]

No, it's not day 54. It's. It's day 53. It's actually day 49. They took us from the house and they told us that we are going home. And something felt bad, you know, I didn't feel. It didn't feel right. And I told the girl next to me that she just need to be, you know, in focus to see that everything is okay. And I'm next to her. And they took us to the street for four hours trying to get to the exchange point because we are going home. And at that point, one of the terrorists came from my back, pulled me by the shirt, whispering in my ear, not you, not now. And I couldn't even say goodbye to the girl next to me. He dragged me back in together, and they took them back home. And I was dragged into abandoned house. I don't remember how long I was in there, but for me, I felt the deceit. And I couldn't really believe them because they fooled me from that point on three times that I'm Going home and there were daylight and I'm still in Gaza, I'm not home, you know. So when they came to me on day 53 and they told me that this is it, I'm moving to the last house, I didn't really believe them. And that journey was the worst of everything that happened till that point. They covered my eyes, they were really violent to me, dragging me the street. And when I got to the point, I saw eight other hostages, I was so shocked because I saw, you know, young children and women and old women and I didn't understand the situation because was not exposed to either radio, television till that point.

[A]

And did you try to speak to each other at that point?

[B]

Sure, yeah. I mean we have our ways, you know, we stick with, with our eyes, we speak with our whispers, we're making marks. We found ways to speak, to communicate when it was not allowed. And really fast. Knowing their stories was completely shocked, you know, some of them were from the kibbutzes, some of them were taken from the way, some of them from Nova Festival and you know, 18 year old boys, you know, 113 girl, horrible stories. But after 27 hours, 27 hours, when the point that they told us we're going home till the point that they took us to the wreck for us and we really thought it's not going to happen, managed to, you know, hold the last hope that you have left. And at that point they took us to the Red Cross. We saw the Red Cross then we started to hear the screaming from our back. And our release was the, you know, the longest one because we were back home only at 3:30am in the middle of the night. And I really thought that we're not going to see our home now screaming from the back, they're going to come and kill us now, you know, and the entire road was really, really bad. But then I got a phone call inside the car and the driver gave me the phone and it was a soldier from the other line speaking to me in Hebrew, saying to me, you're safe, you're on your way home. Tell me who's injured, tell me who needs aid, care, you know.

[A]

And was red cars in the car with you at that point?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And were they helpful in any way.

[B]

You know, for me, everybody laughed at me because in my story when I was released, I didn't understand that we are being filmed to the entire world, you know, and I was so happy that I was out. And you will see it if you look it up in Google that I grabbed all of the driver of the Red Cross, and to a hug, because I was really thanking them for taking me home, not knowing that. Why didn't you come to see us?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, they're basically, why didn't you visit us?

[B]

I mean. And I was trying to communicate with that woman immediately, asking her, where were you?

[A]

Did they say anything?

[B]

And she said that the Hamas is not allowing them to come into Gaza. And, you know, when we. When they went off, I took from one of them, you know, a cigarette, and she gave me the pack and I told her, no, no, no, leave the pack, because there is no cigarettes in Gaza. And she said, don't worry, I'm fine. I'm going back to Gaza because tomorrow it's like, why are you going back together tomorrow? And she said, oh, we are allowed to visit the children. You're allowed to visit the children, but not allowed to visit the hostages? And you're still supporting that? So I don't know what's still happening, if it's happening still today, but that's the answer she gave to me. And I was shocked, you know. But then eventually they left. We crossed the border and I saw the first officer and she came to me. And you need to understand that I thought that Israel is burning. And I thought that I don't have a home to come back to because they fill me with lies that what is happening in Israel.

[A]

So what were they telling you?

[B]

They told me that everything was bombed and that I don't have a family to come back to and nobody's fighting for me. And basically they told me that I'm not going to be released, even if there will be a ceasefire, because I'm a soldier and no hope from them, that's for sure. I didn't hear one of them coming to me and say, I don't want this either. We're in the situation, let's try to survive it, you know?

[A]

Did you believe them? I mean, if, like. Yeah. So you never feared that your family or.

[B]

No, no, no, I didn't believe them, but I was afraid on my mother. She's an old woman and she's by herself and I'm her younger child, you know, and what am I expecting her to do? You know, what everybody's expecting from my mother to do? She was broken. No. And she survived. For me, my hope every day that don't do anything, don't fight for me, just survive, you know, just wait till I come back home because I was so afraid that she will have a heart attack or something. And it was not far away from that, you know, and she didn't eat, she didn't drink, she didn't do anything. And even after I came back home, she didn't want to open the news because she felt bad because she got her daughter back. And there are so many other mothers that didn't get their children back, you know, so what is the world expecting from our mothers to do? Or our fathers or sisters or, or brothers, you know, of course they will fight for us. Of course I have four different cousins that went on looking for me, you know, they didn't care that they have children back home, they didn't care that they have wife back home. They were trying just to look for me. They didn't try to take nobody else life. And I wish, I wish, I wish that people will be just lighting up, up and open their eyes for a second to understand what do you want? What do you want to get up to? That's it. It's that simple. What do you support on? I don't support babies being killed, I don't support that. My brothers are being held in tunnels, being starved, being beaten, being abused, being psychology, you know, mentally war every single day. What do you expect? What do you want? That's it. It's that simple. I mean, you know, I'll take one example when I see the gay community supporting Gaza and I'm just asking, do you know that they don't support you? Do you know that our country support you 100%? One of the countries that fight for you every single day, like the strongest as possible. I mean, in here you can do, you can be free. So why are you against us?

[A]

Gays for Palestine is very different than gays in Palestine.

[B]

I'm just taking one example. I mean, you know, I read all the talkbacks, all the bad talks that I get, not the good ones, I read all the bad ones ones and I replied to each and every one of them and I didn't get that many. But you know, at one point I got this message, you've been brainwashed. Are you nuts? I felt it on my flesh and blood. How do you think that I'm being brainwashed? I'm afraid of people being, rejecting the truth. They deny the truth. I felt it every single day inside captivity when they tried to build my story and it was not my story tell. And every single day, one night there was so severe explosion and I heard one mother screaming. And it's a mother that I heard for every single day. I had my, you know, my sounds My regular sounds that I was waiting to hear. And at that day, her lefter was screaming and the terrorists came to to the room. And I asked him what happened. And she said, he said that her child died. And I cried and he almost beat me up for that. And I told him, I'm not crying for me, I'm crying for her. And he left at me and he said, you are a slave, you are a fox, you are a manipulator, you are whatever. I was really crying for that mother. But when that was not allowed to, I don't understand what else to do, what else to say that makes people understand that most of us, I will not say 100% and I will not be angry on the people that not supporting that because I understand them. You invade their houses, you kill their families, you took our. We took care of everything. And not only for us, it's for our families as well. My brother, my sister, they left their family. They didn't see their families for four days. There are people in here 603 days. They didn't do anything but to be here and fight for the family. This is not just a one person story. So I'm asking what to do more, you know.

[A]

Tell me about the first moment that you touched another hand or hugged an Israeli or was it, who was it first? It was a soldier first. So you speak to the soldier on the phone?

[B]

Yeah, I spoke with the soldier on the phone. And then the entrance to Israel, that was one officer that came to me and she told me that my family, everybody's alive, including my animals and everybody's together, you know. And I remember that I screamed so loudly and understood that I was allowed to express my emotion finally, you know, And I was picturing my mother every single day wearing the same clothes, you know. And eventually when I saw her, she was wearing the same clothes I was picturing in my head. And I said it out loud to the hostage still in Gaza. So it will not be just in my head, you know. And that only shows you, you know, how much belief and attention and goal and purpose I had to see my mother and I manifested every single day. And when I saw her, when I saw my father, when I saw my sister and brother, you know, this is, this is. It's beyond miracle. It's beyond the best achievement that I have had in my entire life, you know, to be able to hug my family again. And that's it for me. I was smiling, they were crying. And then we just immediately started to fight for everybody else at that Point. That's a name that I'm taking with me everywhere. At that point, I still had one friend inside. His name is. He was 38 years old, and he was a culture positive person. He obeyed them, he did everything they asked him to do. And eventually one day I was so uneasy and I kept driving everybody crazy, and I felt something bad happened to him. And they told me nothing happened to him, something bad happened to him. I really feel it in my bones, you know. And the funny thing is, I was with him only for two days. That's the amount of the connection. He was murdered that day, and the Hamas sent a video of his body. I remember that nobody wanted me to see. And I forced them to show me because I couldn't believe that he was gone. And for him, I'm saying that I still have this good picture in my head and not that body that I saw, you know, it was not him and more for me, but he didn't get back home. And he really fought for me inside because they kept telling him that I will not be released. And he kept fighting for me, trying to convince them that I'm not a soldier. And eventually he was murdered and he will not come back home. You know.

[A]

Is there anything else you want to say? You said something about your faith before and belief in God, which I assume, which I have no doubt, has been tested in unimaginable ways throughout this.

[B]

That's the one thing that really puts a smile on my face when I hear other testimonies from hostages that came out, how much faith hold them. Held them every single day, because this is a situation that you need to surrender to. You have two options, either dead or alive. What you gonna do now? So I put it aside. I was surrendering, surrendering, saying, you know what? You saved me so many times from a sure death so many times, and I'm still alive. So I'm gonna take this faith on and I'm gonna spread it everywhere I can, because that's what held us inside. We had nothing. We had nothing. And if you ask, you know about the six hostages that was murdered inside the tunnel, you know that one fact is that from their body language, they were not afraid when the gun was pointed to their faces because they accepted the situation. They have nothing to do with it, and they just tried to protect themselves. That's the body language that they found the body. And I wish and I hope that I know that this is the only thing that makes them survive. Every single day for 603 days, the stories that they tell is no different than us, except of the fact that it's still going on. And how much does a person have, you know, to hold on another day and another day of another day of abuse and starvation? How much we have to stop it really, really fast. And I really hope that they have the faith to keep on doing it and keep on getting up every single morning. You know, I found myself tons of time saying thank you every day because it's not obvious that I have food in my mouth and it's not obvious that I had water, and it's not obvious that I survived another day. But the wheel of life, that's what helped me. And when two terrorists came into my room, proudly putting their hand on their heart and saying, you know, why we'll be okay and you not, and I said, why? I said, because we don't have nothing in our heart. We don't have emotion and we don't care. We wait to die, okay? We wait to leave. We just want to leave. We don't want to die. We want to survive. And not only to survive, we want to leave. And that's the only message that I have to everybody that what will watch it. Please choose. What's your goal in the morning? What do you want? And if you think that something is bad, try to change it to the better, not fight against it and doing the same thing that you think you're being done it, you know, choose differently. That's all.

[A]

You know, I've. I've interviewed presidents and prime ministers and by everyone you can think of, and you are without question the most extraordinary person that I've ever chatted with, period.

[B]

Thank you so much for everything, really.