Dems Embracing of Antisemitism Is About to Backfire | Batya Ungar-Sargon

Summary

---

The Rubin Report

Episode: Dems Embracing of Antisemitism Is About to Backfire | Batya Ungar-Sargon
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Batya Ungar-Sargon (author of "The Jews and the Left," host at NewsNation)
Date: June 12, 2026

---

Episode Overview

Dave Rubin sits down with Batya Ungar-Sargon to discuss her new book, The Jews and the Left, and explore the evolving relationship between American Jews and the Democratic party. The conversation dives into why Jews historically aligned with Democrats, the current surge of antisemitism on the left, perceptions of Zionism, and what the future may hold for Jewish political identity in America. The pair analyze historical context, the present moment’s political realignment, and possible backlashes, offering optimism for America’s resilience against extremism.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Why Are Jews Traditionally Democrats?

• Historical Context & Foundational Values
  Batya explains that Jews became Democrats for reasons that made sense in context:
  • Early American Jews were valued by the Founding Fathers as partners—integral to the nation's fabric ([03:32]-[05:09]).
  • Many Jews migrated from Russia fleeing pogroms and became a major force in the American labor movement, pushing for now-mainstream rights like the five-day workweek ([06:01]).
  • While discrimination existed, Jews in America were not historically oppressed in the same way as in Europe, and quickly found upward mobility ([06:01]).
• Loss of Religious Identity
  As Jews assimilated, many became secular, trading religious tradition for liberal ideology ([05:09]-[06:01]).
• Realignment Dynamics
  The left once embodied values Jews championed (labor, civil rights), but over time, the demographic shifted toward over-credentialed, college-educated elites disproportionately represented in the Democratic party ([00:56] & [06:01]).

2. The Recent Surge in Antisemitism on the Left

• Where Antisemitism Lives Now
  Batya contends that “the vast majority of today’s anti-Jewish sentiment...comes from the left,” reversing 20th-century patterns ([00:56], [10:56]).
• Anti-Zionism is a new litmus test for progressivism.
  • "You cannot be a progressive candidate and be a Zionist" ([10:56], [11:28]).
  • Zionism is reframed as oppressive, allowing leftists to avoid accusations of antisemitism ([11:11]-[11:28]).
• Elite Versus Popular Sentiment
  Batya stresses this is “very much an elite phenomenon,” concentrated in highly-online, academic, or activist circles; most Americans, including Democrats, remain broadly pro-Israel ([15:17]).

3. Can Democrats Reverse Course?

• Political Ceiling & Potential Backfire
  Batya predicts the left’s anti-Israel extremism will hit a “ceiling” in 2028 when Democrats face electoral losses for embracing anti-Zionist candidates ([11:37], [12:59]).
  • "There's nothing Democrats hate worse than losing... they're going to do a 180" ([11:37]).
  • If figures like Graham Platner or Abdul El-Sayed win, Batya expects a backlash from mainstream Democrats ([12:59], [13:22]).
• American Exceptionalism and Resilience
  Despite present tensions, “something in the soil just rejects hatred of Jews”—American mainstream resists true antisemitism ([15:17], [16:08]).

4. Information Wars and Disproportionate Attention on Israel

• Why the Focus on Israel?
  Dave and Batya discuss why the world fixates on Israel despite its small size:
  • Massive international and digital attention, driven by Muslim populations and adversaries like China engaged in information warfare ([16:08], [16:34]).
  • “We are the least racist country to ever exist... that acts as a real balm against any of this stuff” ([16:34]).

5. The Left’s Identity and Destructive Impulse

• Jews as ‘Oppressed’ or ‘Oppressors’?
  Batya argues the left now lumps Jews with "whites" and "conservatives", shifting the narrative away from their actual historical status in America ([18:16]).
  • "They are not oppressing us because we are one with this nation..." ([18:47])
• Self-Identification and Political Homelessness
  Many Jews feel politically homeless—unwanted by the anti-Zionist left, but not fully aligned with the populist right ([19:27]-[20:23]).

6. Antisemitism’s Limits on the Right and the Left

• Right-Wing Pushback
  Conservatives have begun actively rejecting the extremes in their ranks (e.g., Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes) ([21:42]-[22:17]).
  • "The knowledge that those are not real constituencies, the confidence in the electorate... It's the exact opposite of what you're seeing on the left." ([22:17])
• Contrast with Leftist Embraces
  The left tolerates or even embraces problematic figures if it confers political advantage (e.g., candidates with Nazi tattoos) ([22:17]).

7. Antizionism vs. Real Antisemitism: Symbolic Hypocrisies

• Party Litmus Testing and Hypocrisy
  Guests and callers highlight the hypocrisy of accepting candidates with Nazi symbols while claiming to fight for tolerance—if the symbol were an Israeli flag, outrage would ensue ([30:34]-[32:10]).
  • "She doesn't have a problem with a real tattoo of a real genocide perpetrated against the Jews..." —Batya ([32:10])

8. Optimism About America’s Future

• American Hopefulness
  Despite pessimism, Batya is “bullish on America”, citing the country’s resilience and history of pushing back against extremism ([25:24], [26:43]).
  • “Our best days are ahead of us.” ([25:24])
• Role of Working Class and Economic Realities
  Batya urges Republicans to better address economic anxieties—affordability is a real issue driving disillusionment ([26:43]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Historic Jewish Identity:
  “There was 300 years of American Jewish history before Jews became Democrats...foundational to what made America great.” – Batya ([03:32])
• On Zionist Litmus Test:
  “Anti-Zionism is the most important litmus test to be a member in good standing on the left today.” – Batya ([10:56])
• On American Resistance to Antisemitism:
  “Something in the soil just rejects hatred of Jews. So to me, this is very much an elite phenomenon.” – Batya ([15:17])
• On Shifting Identity:
  “They have put us in the white camp. They put us in the conservatives camp. Now the ADL wants to say... put us in the black camp, put us in the trans camp. I think that that's not the answer.” – Batya ([18:16])
• On Right-Wing Pushback:
  “The courage, the bravery, the willingness to alienate potential constituencies... that’s the exact opposite of what you’re seeing on the left.” – Batya ([22:17])
• On Belonging:
  “America would not be America without us. We were heritage Americans.” – Batya ([23:11])
• On Hope and Agency:
  “Not only do you have to accept that you are part of the solution. Like waking up from that is how you solve it.” – Batya ([26:43])
• On Symbolism and Hypocrisy:
  “She doesn't have a problem with a real tattoo of a real genocide perpetrated against the Jews. But she would have a problem with him having a fake...a tattoo about a country and a fake genocide that never happened.” – Batya ([32:10])
• On Smiling Through Adversity:
  “I’m so bullish on America. There is absolutely no reason to feel pessimistic about where we’re headed.” – Batya ([25:24])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:32 – Batya on why Jews vote Democrat and what’s been forgotten about Jewish-American history
• 06:01 – Jewish-American upward mobility and switch from religion to secular liberalism
• 10:56 – The left’s new litmus test: anti-Zionism
• 11:37 – Batya predicts the backlash if Dems continue leftward
• 13:22 – The limits of anti-Zionist politics and likely voter backlash
• 15:17 – The elite vs. popular phenomenon of antisemitism
• 16:34 – Why Israel receives disproportionate global attention
• 18:16 – The narrative shifting Jews into the “white oppressor” camp
• 22:17 – Differences in how the right and left handle fringe elements
• 23:11 – America’s inseparable Jewish heritage
• 25:24 – Batya’s optimism and faith in America’s future
• 26:43 – Economic struggles and what Republicans should prioritize
• 32:10 – Batya on the hypocrisy in left-wing discourse about antisemitism and genocide

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• The historic alliance between Jews and the Democratic party is rooted in real American traditions, economic struggle, and a unique uptake of American values—but contemporary shifts have rendered those loyalties increasingly complicated.
• Antisemitism is seen by Batya and Dave as primarily an elite left-wing phenomenon right now, but one with real consequences in U.S. politics and Jewish identity.
• Batya argues that American resilience and fundamental decency will ultimately provide a backstop against true antisemitism gaining mainstream traction.
• The episode closes with a dual call: for Jews to recognize their foundational American-ness, and for all Americans to build a better future by resisting extremism—smiling and optimistic, even in difficult times.

---

Tone: Direct, conversational, and frequently optimistic. Both host and guest blend critique with personal stories and historical grounding, all aimed at fostering hope for a renewed American unity.

---

Transcript

[A]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[B]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] hey there, it's Wayfair here where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app.

[C]

Wayfair Every style, every home. So for all these reasons, it made a lot of sense at the time for Jews to become Democrats. And of course anti Semitism. Back then where it existed was on the right. You fast forward to today and the exact opposite is the case. The vast majority of today's anti Jewish sentiment I think comes from the left, whereas the right is doing a really good job of kicking these people out. But at this point, Jews are extremely overrepresented in the kinds of people who become Democrats, who become leftists, which is over credentialed college educated elites. They're just demographically programmed to end up on that side of the political aisle in a day and age when working class Americans are on the right and the college educated are on the left.

[A]

All right guys, it's Friday, June 12, 2026. I'm Dave Rubin, this is the Rubin Report. And joining me today is the host of News Nation's Batya exclamation point and the author of the new released book the Jews and the Left. My friend Batya Unger Sargen Bhatya. We started a second late here because there were some, we heard some police sirens in the background. You are in New York. Is this Nix related? General Jihad related? Are you okay? Are you okay?

[C]

You know, I'm one of these people who's always like guys, slow your roll. Like I don't appreciate like very macho men coming in here and acting like New York. You got to be scared, scared and stuff. As long as we got Jessica Tisch, police commissioner, Jewess, proud Zionist, in charge, you know, everything's gonna be okay.

[A]

Ever the optimist. That is why I like you. You're always smiling, even when you're saying things that I think are a little loopy. But I do adore you, and you are someone of the left. I think, for the most part, you're trying to do something kind of similar in some sense to what Bill Maher is still trying to do and Fetterman, show the Democrats that perhaps they could be a bit better or they've abandoned some of their pr. It's sort of what I was trying to do a while back, and I just don't. I personally just can't take it much more with these people. But let's focus on the book for the half hour, because obviously we talk about the left a lot on this show, and unfortunately, I would say we talk about the Jews and. Or Israel more than I would like to. I'd rather not, unless there was something, you know, great to celebrate or something like that. But there's a lot of strange focus on the Jews lately. So I guess first, what made you want to write this book in the first place?

[C]

I wanted to write it for non Jews and for Jews for different reasons. I wanted to explain to non Jews why Jews vote Democrat, especially conservatives and Republicans and Christians, because I'm sure you get this a lot, Dave. When I travel, it's the number one thing I get asked with, like, real pain. Christians who know that they will always have Israel's back and will always have the back of the Jews, and they can see that the left has turned on the Jews. They want to understand why did Jews become Democrats and why do they stick with a party that hates them? So I wanted to write it for that audience and answer those two pieces of the question, why Jews became Democrats and why the left turned on them. But I also had a message for American Jews, because I think a big part of why American Jews stick with the Democratic Party is because they see us as an oppressed minority in America. And of course, the Democrats claim to represent the oppressed, but we were never an oppressed minority in America. And this is a history that has been utterly lost both to the Jewish community and to many in the non Jewish community. There was 300 years of American Jewish history before Jews became Democrats, when they were seen as just a completely fundamental part of this country, foundational to what made America great. The Founding fathers really saw Jews as partners in the creation of this great nation, and we just totally lost that history. And I wanted American Jews to remember what this country had done for us and to realize that our loyalty should not be to one party or the other. It should be to the great nation that is the United States of America.

[A]

Right. So, okay, so there's a couple angles there. And of course, that's not to say, yes, there was obviously discrimination, and Jews weren't allowed in certain schools and certain hospitals and had to build. Build alternate institutions and all of those things. But your argument really is that fundamentally, Jews have always been part the fabric which the founders, almost all of them, wrote positive things about the Jews and about what eventually would become Israel. They understood the connection to the land and all that stuff. So first, let's talk about the. The. The part that you brought up initially, which is because I do get that a lot people will say to me, dave, Dave, you know, conservative people, meaning well, will say, why do the Jews vote Democrat mostly? My answer, my bumper sticker answer, if I don't have time to sit down, is something like, a lot of secular Jews have traded their religion for liberalism. That's like my bumper sticker version. I'm sure you address some of that.

[C]

Yeah, definitely. The fact that they're not religious has a lot to do with it, and there's a real irony there to that, because part of what made Jews so precious to the founding fathers and to the early Americans is that they saw them as the kind of living, breathing embodiment of. Of the source material for the civilization they were building here. Right. Like, they saw them as the protectors of the Torah for 2,000 years, which was the source of all of the fundamental rights that we have as Americans. And the view that our rights are imbued in us by our Creator, they're not a gift from some government. They thought that that was an idea that a human could never arrive at on their own. God implanted that idea in us, gave us the Torah as a guide, and the Jews were, you know, the stewards of that text for so many. But what's ironic is that, as you know, Dave, being a religious Jew is a very heavy lift. We're the people of the law. There's a lot of laws, as Ben Shapiro and I know are Orthodox. And when Jews would get here, they would become so enamored of the freedom that was in the air here, the first thing they would do is stop being religious. And so they kind of gave up the very thing that was so unbelievably precious to the people around them. Of course they were also admired for other things, like they were always capitalistic. A country that was building itself on the idea of, you know, you give someone a penny and tomorrow you come back, there's two pennies. They would talk about Jews this way, that they were so upwardly mobile, they were so entrepreneurial. All of these things that were stigmas in Europe were seen as reasons to admire Jews here. I think the reason they became Democrats, it actually makes a lot of sense. There was a massive migration from Russia from Jews, you know, running away from pogroms. About a million Jews came here at the turn of the century and they were overwhelmingly working class. And they were being unbelievably exploited in the needle trades on the lower east side mostly by other Jews who had gotten here like five years before them. Managed to like save a bunch of money, open a sweatshop, right? And so they created the labor movement and introduced all sorts of things that people today, every American left and right would recognize as objectively good things, like the five day work week. You know, the idea that you should treat workers with respect. The problem was the Jewish proletariat was a very short lived affair. You know, like within 5, 10 years they would make some money, take advantage of the capitalism here, be upwardly mobile, and then end up in the ownership class. They would end up, you know, being capitalists. And so they were looking for a movement that was both pro labor and pro capitalism. And they found that in FDR's New Deal. And then of course you fast forward to, you know, the civil rights movement, which was very dear to most American Jews hearts, Although not for the reason most American Jews think today. They think today that it was like some sort of intersectional thing, right? Like the same people oppressing blacks or oppressing Jews. At the time, they thought the opposite. They felt extremely attached to equality for blacks because we had never been oppressed here. So for all these reasons, it made a lot of sense at the time for Jews to become Democrats. And of course anti Semitism. Back then, where it existed was on the right. You fast forward to today and the exact opposite is the case. The vast majority of today's anti Jewish sentiment I think comes from the left, whereas the right is doing a really good job of kicking these people out. But at this point, Jews are extremely overrepresented in the kinds of people who become Democrats, who become leftists, which is over credentialed, college educated Elites, they're just demographically programmed to end up on that side of the political aisle in a day and age when working class Americans are on the right and the college located are on the left.

[A]

Father's Day is coming, guys. And if you're looking for a gift that dad will actually use, check out the Chef IQ sense. It's a smart thermometer that connects to your phone and takes the guesswork out of cooking. It tracks your cooking in real time and lets you know exactly when to flip, rest, and serve. Whether it's steak, chicken, burgers, or fish. The Chef IQ Sense works on the grill, in the oven, or even the smoker. I have used it there. No more guessing. If dinner is done, just check your phone and you will know. It's like having a cooking coach right in your pocket. And it's something dad will use every week. Right now, Chef IQ is running a Father's Day sale with 40% off site wide. Go to chefiq.com and use promo code REUBEN. That's chefiq.com promo code REUBEN for 40% off sitewide. Okay, so there's, there's a lot to do here. And unfortunately for, for today's purposes, we, we only have a half hour, but we'll, we'll obviously pick a lot of this up. So let me flash all the way forward to these last few years where it seems like it's really gone off the rails with the left. We're A, how off the rails do you think it has gone? And B, is there any way to put it back on the rails? And then we'll do a little bit on what you mentioned regarding the right as well.

[C]

It's very off the rails right now. Like, anti Zionism is the most important litmus test to, you know, be a member in good standing on the left today. You cannot be a progressive candidate and be a Zionist someone like, can you.

[A]

For someone that's watching this, that just hears that word all the time, how would you define Zionist? Because it's also the way they're using the word that everyone had put together. The word was largely put to bed because Israel exists. So it's only post October 7th that suddenly they figured out, oh, we don't have to say Jew. We can say Zionist.

[C]

Yeah. Zionist to me is like, do you think planet Earth should have a single Jewish state on the ancestral homeland of the Jews? Right. It's a very minimum proposition.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Amazingly, though, Zoran Mamdani is not a Zionist. Right. So, you know, but, but Zoran Mamdani can Go and visit with Trump and bend the knee to Trump on immigration and still be a rising star because he's an anti Zionist. So it's the thing that cleanses you of all other evils. It's the most important thing. It's the one thing that's utterly non negotiable. Like someone like Ro Khanna can go around and say, yeah, Trump's right about reindustrializing the heartland, right, because he's aggressively against Israel right now. So, you know, it's the litmus test, which is utterly shocking given this history of how Jews built the left up. But I do think that there, you know, here's the thing, Dave. Like the vast majority of Americans, Jewish and non Jewish, are Zionists. So it is a big deal on the left right now, but it has a ceiling. And I think it's really hit that ceiling. And I think in 2028, the Democrats are going to realize right now, like, if they run Graham Platner, if they run Abdul El Sayed in Michigan and they lose big time to Republicans in states they could have won and should have won this cycle, they're going to do a 180 because there's nothing Democrats hate worse than losing. I feel like Republicans are very comfortable los like they never expect to win and they never quite know what to do when they do. But Democrats are the opposite. Like, they feel that power is their birthright and they just don't even think they're supposed to have to compete anymore.

[A]

What if that doesn't happen, though? So what if those guys. Because yes, the unifying principle right now is as long as you are just against the state of Israel, then you're good to go. It doesn't matter what your economic policy is or anything else that seems to be the unifier. But what if Platner and Abdul Syed and there are others, what if they win? Then where are we at? Because then they'll feel pretty damn emboldened.

[C]

They will. But I think there will be a revolt from the populace. I really think most Democratic voters are still Zionists. They feel really disgusted at anti Semitism. And you can see this in Thomas Massie's humiliating loss. He made the whole election about Israel and Kentucky was like, what the heck are you doing? We like Jews, actually. So I feel really sanguine about this. You know, you see, Tucker Carlson is underwater with Republican voters. Why is he seven points underwater with Republicans? Why is that? It's because he turned on the Jews, I feel. You cannot go full anti Semite in America this is the message of the book and succeed in the mainstream.

[A]

So what do you think most of these people are doing? Because you see like, you know, like little strange hints around it. People who don't have particularly impassioned feelings about Israel or Jews, they start, start. I've seen this with so many people. They just start dancing with this or poking it a little bit, and then next thing you know, you are Thomas Massie putting out the craziest conspiracy nonsense and everything else.

[C]

But Dave, I've seen the opposite as well. Like people who said to me like two years ago, three years ago, like, yeah, I'm not sure I'm a Zionist who've seen like how like, just insane the anti Israel people are and how gross they are and been like, I don't want anything to do with that. Like, if those are the people who hate Israel, it's probably doing something right. And I've seen a lot of that on both sides.

[A]

What do you make of. I'm scribbling 20 different things around here. What do you make about how much of this or how much would you prescribe is related to just confusion about the history of Israel? I mean, almost everyone that I see talking about the modern state of Israel on the left is lying about everything from the founding to years before the founding to the Balfour Declaration to the Peel Commission. I mean, the whole damn thing, like almost everything is an outright lie.

[C]

There is a lot of lies. I just feel that, like the American people, I don't know, this is something I uncovered writing the book that really surprised me, but it was like something in the soil just rejects hatred of Jews. So to me, this is very much an elite phenomenon. Both the left and the right. You know, you've got these people on the right who like their number one issue is the USS Liberty. Thomas Massie taking to the halls of Congress, you know, to read out the names of the victims of Dave, you know, the only instance of friendly fire in the history of humanity. Like, it's so dumb, you know, But I think on the left as well, this is very much an elite phenomenon. It's very Twitterverse coded. And there's just an ironclad law in American politics today, and it's that the less online campaign will always win.

[A]

What do you make of the amount of attention that is paid to this small amount of people and this obscenely tiny country? I mean, there are 52 or 53 Muslim nations. Every single one of them is in effect practicing apartheid or has kicked out or killed every minority. There are 2 million Muslim Arabs that live in Israel as equal citizens. But like, again, it's a confusion about reality. But just the attention part.

[C]

Well, I think that's the answer is like there are 200 billion Muslims or 200, you know, what is it? Two billion Muslims, like on the Internet who are desperate for like high quality anti Israel content. China is like deeply invested in this right now. We're in a new cold war with China. And just like in the old Cold war, Israel was our ally, you know, and the Arabs were on the side of the Russians. Today it's like they're on the side of China and that's totally fine. You know what I mean? They're using information warfare and we have to make sure that our people are educated. But they have this like unbelievable strength which is their love of their fellow Americans. You know, there's this narrative that America is a white supremacist. We are the least racist country to ever exist in the history of humanity ever, Ever. And that's just a superpower. And I think that that acts as a real bomb against, you know, it's almost like an antidote to any of this stuff.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, when I listen to you, I think there are. You obviously say a lot of things that I. That make sense to me, and yet I feel the left is just so far gone. Not that a certain set of people won't bounce backward. I agree. The average person, I don't even know that they love Jews or like Jews or anything else, but they just think they're part of America just like every other ethnic group. And it is what it is. And yet this base is so damn rabid. And I think you do have to give the devil his due. Like they've been able to destroy a lot. So how much of this is that? They are just dedicated to destruction, where generally speaking, you sort of hinted at this earlier. Jews are dedicated to building. I mean, the history of Israel is building. Taking the, you know, building the sand and building a beautiful green nation. Jews in general. You get a bunch of Jews going somewhere, they're going to do something versus there's a movement just to destroy everything.

[C]

Here's the question to ask yourself. Do they hate Jews more than they hate white people? Do they hate Jews more than they hate Christians? Do they hate Israel more than they hate America? The answer to all those questions is no. There's like a real intensification of hatred against Israel and Jews because it was in the news. But they have put us in the white camp. They put Us in the conservatives camp. Now the ADL wants to say, how dare you? We're an oppressed minority. Like blacks. Put us in the black camp, put us in the trans camp.

[A]

I think that that's not the answer.

[C]

Dusting. We are not oppressed. We have never been oppressed. The fact that there's rising anti Semitism on the left does not make us oppressed. They are not oppressing us because we are one with this nation and we should be proud to stand with the other people that they hate. We should be proud to be put in the bu of the American working class who will always have our back.

[A]

So in that you don't think the right has gone off the rails the way that the left has, do you think there's more the right could do so that next time someone says to you, hey, why don't you vote Republican more? You could give them a more cohesive answer?

[C]

I just did a podcast with a leftist Jew about my book, and he went, well, you said Elon Musk did not do a Heil Hitler, and yet here you are giving Graham Platner a problem for having a Nazi tattoo. Aren't you being inconsistent? And I was like, no, because one of them has an actual Nazi tattoo and the other one did not do a Heil Hitler. And he was like, this is the problem. People only want to see it on one side. Like, this is the level of difference discourse. It's so sad to me, but I do think a lot of American Jews, they'll say to me, like, I feel politically homeless because the left is a no go zone for Zionists. But the right, I'm a liberal. Like, I don't. I don't see my way there. I'm not quite there yet. And I kind of want to, like, have like, a map with, like, a timeline and be like, you know, like, I was here once, now I'm here. You are here.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's that famous meme. We can put an image of it up that Elon has tweeted out many times. I think it's from Colin Wright.

[C]

Colin Wright.

[A]

I didn't move. But the whole. So how do you convince those people? I don't know that you fully want to convince those people. I want to convince those people, vote Republican and just be more on the. What I consider myself. I am on the more liberal side of maga, but it's obvious to me that there is a home for, say, more classically liberal people within maga. I think that's actually what Trump is himself and it's also what brought over Bobby and Tulsi and a whole bunch of other people.

[C]

Well, yeah. The point of my book. I don't want to. I don't want. The point of my book is not for Jews to become Republicans. It's for Jews to realize that our loyalties to the United States.

[A]

I understand. I'm nudging you a little bit.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

I'm just nudging you.

[C]

Right. But what I would say is I know a lot of Jews who would very happily vote for Marco Rubio. Like, a lot of Democratic Jews who would very happily vote for Marco Rubio. I know, by the way, a lot of Republicans who would not vote for JD Van Something I've said before, but I think if the Republicans are smart and if this is an important issue for them, there are people on the right who will have a much better chance than Trump did. And then many of the other people on the right as well.

[A]

Yeah. In terms of the infighting on the right and the right pushing some of this away. And again, I know this isn't exactly what the topic of the book is. I found it pretty freaking inspiring because watching people push away the bad ideas, you know, I was part of the left and one of the early people screaming, hey, you guys are not acting liberally. This whole thing's gonna fall apart. So when I now come over to the right to see, oh, there's a group of people pushing against the lunacy of Tucker Carlson and some of these other people, it's been quite inspiring. And it's. And it's. Well, it's what America really is, actually.

[C]

I totally agree. I mean, the courage, the bravery, the willingness to alienate potential constituencies, the knowledge that those are not real constituencies, the confidence in the electorate and in the American people to say, carlson out, Fuentes out. We don't need you. Like, we don't need you. And that's not the price we're willing to pay. It's the exact opposite of what you're seeing on the left literally embracing a Nazi because they think he's gonna win them a Senate seat.

[A]

How much of this do you think just boils down to actual anti Americanism? To me, it's something like, well, if you could dislodge the Jews from Americ. Yeah, Jews have been dislodged before. It never ends well for the place that dislodges them. But what it would really be is an assault on the 250 year history of this country, because once the Jews are out, they're coming for everybody.

[C]

You can't dislodge Jews from what this country was because the founding fathers saw us as foundational partners to the creation of this great nation. And it is an absolute tragedy that most American Jews don't know that, that they act like they could be dislodged. You just can't. Like, America would not be America without us. We were heritage Americans. And it's just, it's appalling that this is not part of the discourse. And I, it's part of why I wrote the book. It's our 250th birthday. We have to remember this. And I keep saying to people like, you know, they're like, oh, you know, well, you could always move to Israel. No, you will take this country from my cold, dead hands like that. And that should be how every Jewish American feels.

[A]

Well, that should be how every American feels, really, in essence, yeah. Do you owe back taxes or have unfiled returns? No matter how it started, the problem's only going to get worse. Penalties grow, interest adds up. And the IRS is already taking action through wage garnishments, bank levies, and more. That's where Tax Network USA can help. With over 15 years of experience, they specialize in resolving back taxes and unfiled returns. They've handled thousands of cases and resolved over 1 billion in tax debt nationwide. Right now, they're offering a free investigation call with the IRS to review your situation and create a clear path to get you back on track. Don't wait for another IRS notice or worse. Call 866-685-6604. That's 866-685-6604 or visit tnusa.com Dave how is it that you do what we do and you're always smiling? I mean, I'm pretty, you know, I'm pretty glass half full. I always describe myself. I'm sort of a world weary optimist. But I would say you are almost relentlessly smiley despite all of this nonsense. I mean, it's a pretty, it's a pretty upsetting thing to have to write about, you know, your people being pushed out of a movement that you care about in essence. And you talk about these things all the time with a smile on your face. And I'm wondering where that comes from. Now we'll do a little psychology about it. Oh, it's because of the exclamation point, right? It has something to do with that.

[C]

First of all, I drink a lot, but you know, I'm so bullish on America like, there is absolutely no reason to feel pessimistic about where we're headed for when you look at the actual data, when you talk to people. I have a local bar, working class people, I sit there with them once a week. I get the temperature. Like, there is absolutely no excuse. And I'm very upset about the affordability. I think Trump needs to be. He's sending out stimulus checks. I think working class people are struggling right now. Everything is on the right track. Like every. Our best days are ahead of us. And Trump really helped me understand this. I had unconsciously accepted the idea that we are a nation in decline. And in 2024, I was disabused of that and realized that I was unconsciously betting against my homeland and just decided to stop doing that.

[A]

And it is what stopped you. I mean, what stopped you? Because that's one of the things that I'm really trying to push now to the backdrop of 250. And Trump needs to do a better, we all need to do a better job of painting that things can be incredible. We're on this unbelievable AI horizon. We're gonna change medicine, we're gonna change, I mean, we're literally gonna go interplanetary. We're gonna do all of this amazing stuff. And yet nobody's really, I would say Elon is maybe the exception to it. So few people are showing people there's something so cool about to happen. If you would just put aside some of this ancient hate stuff.

[C]

Well, I think a lot of people kind of in the lower income brackets really are struggling right now. It is really hard for them. And I just wish Republicans understood this as like a five alarm fire. Like it's a big deal and they're not taking it seriously enough. Obviously, after the Iran deal, prices are going to come down, but that could take a month, it could take two months, and people are strapped. And they voted for Trump to put money in their pockets. And a lot of his supporters are really hurting. So I think that right now the situation is like that. It's very hard to think big picture when you don't know how you're going to afford to buy chicken for your kids. And I think it's very hard for Republicans to understand that this is a real thing, is not a myth that the Democrats are pushing. Like a lot of, they push a lot of mythology, you know, But I really just want them to understand this. But more broadly, like, yeah, our elites really hate America. And so the elites who set the tone, who, you know, the journalists, right, like these are people who spent, you know, a decade of their lives in a university, you know, which is basically like a woke mind virus factory. It's very hard to unlearn that way of thinking. And even me who like kind of got DE wokeified in 2019, 2020, 2024, I was still like, like I said, like I didn't even realize I had accepted that. Like we're in decline. And the feeling of like, no, you don't have to accept that. Not only do you have to accept that you are part of the solution. Like waking up from that is how you solve it.

[A]

So what was the final straw that that shifted you? Like, what actually caused the rebound?

[C]

It was Trump just saying, like, you don't have to accept this. You don't have to live like this. Like, we don't have to just accept that we need a slave caste of 20 million illegals to do low wage jobs in order to survive as an economy. You do not have to accept that. You know, you don't have to accept a trade deficit with our adversaries. You don't have to accept it. Like it's just a wild thing. Like, you don't have to accept that younger people will never be able to afford a home. Like, you do not have to accept that having 2 degrees from woke mind virus factory is the pathway to the middle class. Like, you don't have to accept that it can be reversed. We can reshore manufacturing, you know, like, we can close the border. We can get working class Americans back into vocational training, you know, so it's like, it's an amazing thing to suddenly realize, like you can just shift the way you think about things and give yourself a role. Give yourself a role.

[A]

Right. That's the crazy part that people think like you have no autonomy in this, that you have no ability to affect anything. And it's like, no, that's literally the only thing, otherwise you're handing it to the savages.

[C]

Yeah. And if I can say something a little controversial, please.

[A]

On a Friday,

[C]

you know, like you look at someone like Graham Platner, okay, the left is holding him up as some sort of like masculine ideal. Like masculinity is about self regulation. It's about autonomy. It's about all the things he doesn't have. You know, like, it's about saying like, what do I owe the community around me and how can I make sure that I am a leader and how can I regulate myself and control myself? Like that is masculinity. And I feel like that is something that the right understands, which is why they're kind of repelled by him. And it just gets into all of this of like, what is your role in this. This world? To create a better America.

[A]

Right. I mean, the irony that they've been calling us all Nazis for 10 years and now they're running with the guy who has the Nazi tattoo. And in a weird way, it's the best thing that he could have for the base. Right? Like, that none of them. I mean, did you see that video a couple days ago on the View with Sunny Hostin basically being like, yeah, he's a racist and probably a homophobe and a Jew hater and a. But he's ours because I think all

[D]

the allegations are true. The sexting with other women while married is definitely true because his wife. His wife is the person that gave the messages to his campaign to give them a heads up. He's also made racist remarks against African Americans. So he's a cheater. He's an anti Semite because the fact that he had that tattoo for 20 years and didn't know what it was is a lie. So he's a liar, a racist, an anti Semite homophobe. He's a homophobe. So he's all the things and character does matter. But we have someone that has almost unbridled power in the White House at this point. There is no. There are no checks and balances. And the only way that we can maybe bring a bit of our democracy back is by having a Congress that functions and that has these checks and balances. And I do think one of the only ways is to win that seat. Maine.

[C]

And it's like, did you see the woman at the rally who said, yeah, she said, well, yeah, I don't have a problem with the Nazi tattoo, but if he had a tattoo of the Israeli flag, I would have a problem with that. Because then he would support genocide.

[B]

I think people are making as much of it as they can. These don't have a lot of substance around anything else. And if they did, we'd hear about it.

[A]

Believe me.

[B]

They are trolling for dirt.

[C]

What if he has, like, a Israeli flag tattoo or something?

[B]

Would that be a deal breaker for me?

[C]

Yeah,

[B]

honestly, yeah, that would be Israeli.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't support genocide and he doesn't either. And that would show that he was being inconsistent and he's been very consistent about that.

[C]

And if you just notice, like, she doesn't have a problem with a real tattoo of a real genocide perpetrated against the Jews. But she would have a problem with him having a fake. A tattoo about a country and a fake genocide that never happened, which she can blame on the Jews. Which is why that genocide myth, like them calling Israel Gaza a genocide, is basically like that flag with the swastikas and the Jewish star that was flying over nyu. It's just a way to paint the Jews with the Nazis crimes.

[A]

But so are they just better at the game then, in essence? Because it sort of was. It's sort of what I was saying before about like Jews tend to build and they tend to destroy. Like when you have no rules, it seems to me they have no ethical or moral or historical rules that they play by. So it's easy. You know, people say Israel should have better PR, but it's like if you were just lied about 24 hours a day relentlessly, it's hard to fight that and also fight an existential war for your existence. Like a literal war.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it's sad. People do say, like, if you think about the information war, Hamas obviously won. I will say on June 26, there's going to be a massive protest against Hamas by Palestinians in Gaza.

[A]

That's my 50th birthday, so they're due.

[C]

Congratulations.

[A]

What a gift. What a gift for the people of Gaza rise up against the house.

[C]

We should all do our best to elevate their voices. Hamas is going to kill a lot of them. And these are the people trying to build the next iteration. And they don't get enough support from me included because we're all busy with our own stuff, but just wanted to give a call out to that Batya.

[A]

You are smiley, you are positive, you are almost confoundingly tolerant of crazy people. But that's why I love you. Thank you for doing the show. Have a nice weekend. And as they say in the old country, Shabbat Shalom.

[C]

Shabbat shalom. Thank you so much for having me.

[E]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Bathroom podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.