Exposing the Reality of ESPN, What They Don't Tell You About Divorce & More | Sage Steele

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Exposing the Reality of ESPN, What They Don't Tell You About Divorce & More | Sage Steele"

Title: The Rubin Report
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Sage Steele
Release Date: August 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Rubin Report, host Dave Rubin sits down with Sage Steele, former ESPN anchor, to delve deep into her tumultuous departure from ESPN, her personal struggles with divorce, and her journey toward finding peace and love post-ESPN. Their candid conversation also touches upon broader issues in the media industry, including mental health among public figures and the evolving landscape of women's sports broadcasting.

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Sage Steele's Departure from ESPN

Sage Steele opens up about her challenging 16-month tenure at ESPN, marked by public disputes with the company, a suspension, cancellation, and a subsequent lawsuit. Despite these professional hurdles, Sage emphasizes that she "did her best work" during this period.

Key Quote:

Sage Steele [00:28]: "For the last 16 months of my time at ESPN, that was public against the company for which I was still working. Did my best work."

Personal Life and Divorce

Amid her professional struggles, Sage was also navigating a painful divorce after nearly 20 years of marriage. She reflects on the emotional toll, the process of self-forgiveness, and the spiritual challenges she faced.

Key Quotes:

Sage Steele [00:43]: "When you get a divorce, it's a failure in some ways. I just had to forgive myself."

Sage Steele [07:01]: "It was the craziest time in my life. And I do look back and I'm actually trying to give myself some grace."

Sage describes the difficulty of compartmentalizing personal turmoil while maintaining her professional responsibilities on air. She shares a poignant moment when a colleague lashed out at her live, highlighting the pressures of being a public figure dealing with personal issues.

Key Quote:

Sage Steele [08:57]: "But it is part of the journey. When you've been controlled by a machine for 30 years with network television, but now to try it on my own."

New Beginnings and Relationship with Dave Rubin

The conversation shifts to Sage's move to Florida, facilitated by a T-Mobile family offer during the COVID-19 pandemic. This relocation played a pivotal role in her personal recovery and eventual meeting with Dave Rubin.

Key Dialogue:

Sage recounts her impulse purchase of a condo in Fort Lauderdale without seeing it first, a decision that provided her with much-needed solace during a difficult time. This move set the stage for meeting Dave Rubin serendipitously at a veterans' charity event in Nashville.

Key Quote:

Sage Steele [11:42]: "If I hadn't stood up to ESPN and Disney, I would have been in Connecticut doing SportsCenter. Not at this event where I met the love of my life."

Their instant connection blossomed into a meaningful relationship, culminating in an engagement. Sage emphasizes the importance of age, wisdom, and shared faith in their partnership.

Key Quote:

Sage Steele [21:18]: "I've never been more sure of anything in my life. And I'm so excited at the second chance, you know, it's a second opportunity at love."

Challenges in Media and Mental Health

Dave Rubin and Sage Steele discuss the mental health struggles of media personalities, citing examples like Keith Olbermann. They explore how fame, pressure, and public scrutiny can lead individuals to lose perspective and, in some cases, their mental well-being.

Key Quotes:

Dave Rubin [31:00]: "When you see people that really had it all seemingly and then just go nuts, like, what do you think's going on there to say?"

Sage Steele [32:15]: "I think there is true mental illness with him. It's sad because I remember looking up to him so much and so uber talented."

Sage emphasizes the importance of humility and maintaining one's roots to prevent the pitfalls of fame and power within the media landscape.

Discussion on WNBA and Gender/Race Issues

Transitioning to sports broadcasting, Sage and Dave delve into the current challenges within the WNBA, including racial tensions, financial disparities, and the sexualization of female athletes. They critique recent behaviors and statements by WNBA broadcasters, highlighting how such actions can alienate fans and undermine the league's growth.

Key Dialogue:

Sage expresses frustration over inappropriate comments made by WNBA broadcasters, arguing that such behavior detracts from the sport and discourages viewership. She draws parallels to past eras of basketball, noting how professionalism and mutual respect were once the norms.

Key Quotes:

Sage Steele [48:40]: "Women get petty and have these little fights and arguments. It's bad business."

Dave Rubin [47:35]: "Is there some phrase about biting the hand that feeds you? I think that's the point."

They also discuss the complex interplay between race and sexuality in the WNBA, suggesting that heightened visibility and progressive cultural shifts may contribute to the current tensions.

Life Balance and Digital Detox

Towards the end of the episode, Dave Rubin challenges Sage Steele to take a weekend off from her phone, highlighting the importance of disconnecting in an always-connected world. Sage reflects on her reliance on technology to monitor her children's whereabouts and the challenges of balancing personal privacy with parental responsibilities.

Key Quotes:

Dave Rubin [66:08]: "Next year when you steal it, right now you're going to be married. The career has settled in again. You're going to be happy. You don't need the grind."

Sage Steele [65:07]: "Life360 is an app, and basically it's a tracker. But not only does it show, it shows you when they're in a car how fast they're going in life. It's evil."

Concluding Remarks

The episode wraps up with Sage and Dave reflecting on their respective journeys, the importance of taking risks, and the value of surrounding oneself with genuine, supportive people. They encourage listeners to embrace change, prioritize personal well-being, and remain true to their core values amidst life's challenges.

Key Quote:

Dave Rubin [67:55]: "The challenge is to regent that when I see I'm. The next time I see you after today is going to be on your wedding day. And I want to be able to kiss you and hug you and know that you took the ultimate challenge of two days off your phone."

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Notable Moments with T-Mobile Advertisements

Throughout the transcript, several T-Mobile advertisements are interspersed. These segments promote T-Mobile's "Family Freedom" offer, encouraging listeners to switch their family's mobile service for various benefits. However, in this summary, these advertisements have been intentionally omitted to maintain focus on the core conversation between Dave Rubin and Sage Steele.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Rubin Report offers a heartfelt and unfiltered glimpse into Sage Steele's life, both professionally and personally. Her resilience in the face of adversity, coupled with her journey toward personal happiness and fulfillment, serves as an inspiring narrative for listeners navigating their own challenges. The discussion on broader media industry issues adds depth, making this episode a compelling listen for anyone interested in media, personal growth, and the complexities of modern life.

Transcript

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[Sage Steele]

T Mobile through Covid through suspension and cancel and lawsuit. For the last 16 months of my time at ESPN, that was public against the company for which I was still working. Did my best work.

[Dave Rubin]

But in the midst of this, you were also getting a divorce. Okay, end the show, end the program.

[Sage Steele]

And I think when you get a divorce, it's a failure in some ways. I just had to forgive myself. And I mean from a spiritual aspect. Like, I thought God was going to be really mad at me. I look back on that time in the fear because then you have to go to work. So I remember, you know, you get a difficult text message or talk, a conversation with an attorney, sometimes in commercial breaks and you're back on, that light comes on and whatever's going on in your personal life has to go in the back. I was on air with another one of these women who I idolized. And at the end of our two hour Sports center show, she said something nasty in the last 20 seconds to me.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, it was on air.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, it's live on air. Yeah. When you've been, you know, controlled by a machine for 30 years with network television. But now to try it on my own and be able to say, hey, Dave said, come on down, you know, hour or so drive from where I live in Fort Lauderdale. Like, I don't have to ask permission. Yeah, I can just go do what I want. When the Team Trump called and they're like, you want to come with Laura? And I was like, what? Yeah, let's just go. Let's say yes to everything and try it. Like, when you say yes, crazy things can happen.

[Dave Rubin]

All right, Sage, first off, your past intros, you're past it. There's nothing. What am I possibly gonna say about you at this point that people don't.

[Sage Steele]

We're actual friends now.

[Dave Rubin]

Literal, actual friends. As everyone knows, I'm off the grid right now, so let's be very clear. This is the end of July as we're taping this, but it is August. I'm gone. No phone. I have no idea what's going on. You were gracious enough to bring me back last year.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, that's so great.

[Dave Rubin]

Which was. Of all the years that I've done it, I think it was the most sort of impactful and spiritual. And, you know, the story about the birds and all that Stu. So I am MIA right now, but we're doing a little bit of, you know, you have to stay in front of the algorithm. So I thought, who can we talk to that we can talk about some other stuff during August that's not so political and everything else? And we're sitting in here with my whole crew right now, and one of your daughters is here, and they're using all their young language, and they're telling us all about the TikTok and all of this stuff. And we're. We're of a certain age. We both, I just realized, also have our glasses on the table. Getting less. What's happening to us, Sage?

[Sage Steele]

It's over.

[Dave Rubin]

What is happening here?

[Sage Steele]

It's over. Although it's been over for me longer than you, because I.

[Dave Rubin]

What do you have. You have two years on me or something?

[Sage Steele]

52.

[Dave Rubin]

You got three years.

[Sage Steele]

I got 53. This year. I know. Next year.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh. Blowout for the.

[Dave Rubin]

For the big five 0s. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, I hope that David is planning this now.

[Dave Rubin]

I believe that me and my two best childhood friends are gonna do, like, a week in Vegas. I think I'm just gonna foot through that. That sounds awful, but I feel like we have to do something like that. I don't even really gamble, but just. We'll go to the Sphere. We'll eat some steak, we'll drink some tea.

[Sage Steele]

The food there, to me, is so underrated. I think it's incredible. That'll be fun, but it just seems very cliche. And that's not who you are.

[Dave Rubin]

Well. Cause I do, like, the beach thing all the time. I do enough of that, so what else can I do?

[Sage Steele]

First of all, I just want someone.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, you're right. You're a woman of the finer things in life.

[Sage Steele]

Obviously, someone needs to be following you around the entire time.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, that. I'm in Vegas.

[Sage Steele]

You are in Vegas.

[Dave Rubin]

Whatever that even means. I'm, like, so past all that. Like.

[Sage Steele]

No, first of all, there just needs to be a bash here in Miami that you aren't hosting, that you aren't.

[Dave Rubin]

Doing any work for oh, that's just because you didn't come to the Last Day Rubin birthday bash.

[Sage Steele]

You just. I was in Costa Rica. Ask her. I actually had a good excuse. Why don't you ask me before you plan your birthdays like you should be. Absolutely, I should be.

[Dave Rubin]

My whole schedule should be based around your life, basically.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, you. So a big party here, please, next year for 5o, in addition to your Vegas escapades.

[Dave Rubin]

Did life change for you at 50? Well, you had a lot going on. I mean, work wise, personal wise. You've had quite a, let's say, five year operation happened. I have, yeah.

[Sage Steele]

47 and 52 has been memorable and some things I'd like to forget, but actually, no, it's part of the journey. Right. You know, again, cliche, when people say, oh, at 50, it just. It's the best decade. Don't they say that about every decade? 30s are your best. Some started in your 20s, 40s. It's all in your 40s, 50s. So far, so good, because I don't care anymore. And I think you got there a lot longer ago than I did. As far as.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't know about that, but I can see that in the 50s. I can really see that. I don't know if it was longer or not.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like just in general, for what you're doing and to give your thoughts and opinion every single day. At some point you have to block out the crap and the noise and you take some of it and maybe learn from it. But overall you're like, okay, if they hate me, it's their loss. It's fine. I got there more recently and now that I'm, you know, two years in. Yeah, it is beautiful. It's such a relief. And I think, God, all those years wasted worrying about pleasing everybody else. So I love it. And I mean professionally, it's something like you've been a huge part of and such a great help to me to just keep taking those steps and not be afraid of it. When you've been, you know, controlled by a machine for 30 years with network television and, you know this. I said it many times. I wouldn't change any of it. I'm so grateful for all of it. But now to try it on my own and be able to say, hey, Dave said, come on down, you know, hour or so drive from where I live in Fort Lauderdale on a Thursday. Yeah, I'll be right there. Like, I don't have to ask permission. I can just go do what I want. And who knew there Was that freedom, which I do think comes with age and wisdom and experience.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, you also do live in the free state of Florida now, so this is. This is freedom central. But you, I mean, people know the sort of the public side of all this and leaving ESPN and the COVID stuff and canceling and all that. But in the midst of this, you were. You were also getting a divorce. You were also living on your own for the first time in, I assume, plus 20 plus years, right?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

And all that and moving down here and everything else. And I've seen, you know, one of your daughters is here. I've seen the relationship that you've manage with your girls and everything else. And when I come back from the grid, I have to take a trip within two days of coming back, because on September 3rd is your ish that week. Ish. Did I. Maybe I got it wrong slightly, but ish first week of September, ish is your wedding to, of course, Dave.

[Sage Steele]

Another day I love Dave's in my life, you guys.

[Dave Rubin]

So that, I mean, that's a lot of stuff to happen in a short period.

[Sage Steele]

It's a lot.

[Dave Rubin]

What did you make of those two things happening at once? I mean, basically going through the personal side, divorce and all that, and the career stuff. I mean, that's a lot of stuff to just be up in the air.

[Sage Steele]

It was the craziest time in my life. And I do look back and I'm actually trying to give myself some grace. I. I'm frustrated with some things that I didn't do quickly enough. Yeah, I think we beat ourselves up when we fail. And I think when you get a divorce, it's. It's a failure in some ways. I was married for 20 years, almost to the day, together for 27 years, from 20 to 47. I met my ex husband in college and first boyfriend, you know, wow. But, like, look what came of those. There were the majority beautiful years. And I have three awesome kids from that. And. But I think when it fails, and as a Catholic and you have Catholic guilt and Catholic guilt, Jewish guilt, black guilt, white guilt. Oh, only half black guilt. Like, I have all of it. Um, and like, I just had to forgive myself. And I mean, from a spiritual aspect, like, I thought God was gonna be really mad at me. I had to. I talked to my priest and was very helpful in saying, okay, have you, have you prayed about this? What has been your process to get to this point? And then afterwards, and then, by the way, when you have three kids, and at the time they were all in high school, you know, like, trying to make life as good as possible for them. And then to co parent, which we did well, especially at the beginning. We did really well when they were younger. I look back on that time into fear, because then you have to go to work and support everybody. Right. So I remember, you know, you get a difficult text message or talk a conversation with an attorney sometimes in commercial breaks, and you're back on. That light comes on, and whatever's going on in your personal life has to go in the background. Everybody does that every single day when they go into work. Everybody's got something.

[Dave Rubin]

Did it ever bleed? Do you have one moment where it bled into it? Like, actually on television?

[Sage Steele]

Not on television. Not on television. I think Covid happened at the same time. It was literally three months after my divorce. Covid hit like it was insane. And living in the Northeast, not in the free state of Florida, completely shut down. And winter at the time, awful. I actually believe that from that moment on, like, the beginning of those personal difficulties through Covid, through suspension and cancellation and a lawsuit for the last 16 months of my time at ESPN that was public against the company for which I was still working. I did my best work.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I just learned to become a master compartmentalizer. Is that the word?

[Dave Rubin]

It sounded like a word.

[Sage Steele]

I know how to compartmentalize really, really, really well now, which cannot always be good. That can be a bad thing. I think if you just put stuff away in your personal life and even professional. Um. I will say this. I. I had. I hadn't given up on love or finding someone, but I had stopped thinking about it. Um, and I never knew how to date Dave. Like, I. I married my first boyfriend. Like, I never knew. So at one point, my. My kids used to mock me. They're like, you're the only single one.

[Dave Rubin]

Out of all of us.

[Sage Steele]

And then one time, I only dated one guy, kind of seriously during those five years that I was single.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And Quinn, my oldest, one time, she saw me texting him back, and she's like, is that what you're sending? Do not push send on that, Mom. Give me that. This is what you need to say. And then she's like, now wait half an hour. Don't send it yet. Like, there's dragons, yada, yada, yada.

[Dave Rubin]

That's not the guy you're marrying.

[Sage Steele]

Hell, no. But, like, I didn't know what I was doing. And maybe my kids were, like, laughing at me and mocking again. I wouldn't. I wouldn't change it. And now, to have met someone who went through something similar, you know, he has two kids and my three.

[Dave Rubin]

You guys are like the modern Brady Bunch, kind of.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And I. I'm just. I'm so grateful, but I know. And sometimes I think, man, I wish I'd met him earlier. I wish. We always say, I wish we wish we could have had children together. They would have been really tall, athletic, curly hair, like all the.

[Dave Rubin]

And I've met your kids. You're doing okay.

[Sage Steele]

They are phenomenal. Yes. But, like, to continue, I'm like, well, we're all dried up, babe. There is nothing left in here at this age. Menopause, fully in it. Like, no, it wouldn't have worked. Just like you with David. Right. It takes every step of that sometimes painful journey to get to that day in that moment where I happened to be in Nashville, Tennessee, at a charity for veterans because I'm a daughter of a vet and he is a vet, and the son of a vet happened to be there that one day on a Tuesday that if I hadn't stood up to ESPN and Disney, I would have been in Connecticut doing SportsCenter. Not at this event where I met the love of my life.

[Dave Rubin]

Like, and it turns out you have crazy connection between your moms, right? Your moms somehow knew each other. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Thirty plus years ago, our fathers were stationed together in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. So in the early 90s, they graduated from West Point a year apart. My dad, 1970. His dad, 1971. Fast forward to the early 90s, and our moms actually used to volunteer at a convent for retired nuns in Kansas. And I'm three years older, so I was in college when he was in high school. And Fast forward to 2024, and we're at this event, and he recognized me from ESPN and came up to say hi and said, by the way, you know, we kind of know each other. And I'm like, oh, Lord, don't give me this cheesy ass line. I've kind of heard them all at this point the last couple of years. And when he said that and g. My mom's name, basically, I was like, excuse me. And you're really cute. Okay, let's talk. Sounds so lame. And you know this, but I knew that night. Got engaged five months to the day later.

[Dave Rubin]

Crazy.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I mean, it is. It. It's not always easy, right? And people will judge. And I have had dear friends and family members in my life who aren't. Who are, you know, have been concerned, like, wait, wait, wait, slow down. Kids have been like, wait a minute, mom and dad on his side. When you're this age and have been through it, you know, yeah. And I've never been more sure of anything in my life. And I'm so excited at the second chance, you know, it's a second opportunity at love and being a great example for my kids and others to not give up.

[Dave Rubin]

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[Sage Steele]

Thank you. That's the word. It's the peace. You also know that Florida, the free state of Florida, helped me with that during COVID I bought the condo in Fort Lauderdale, site unseen because it was during COVID and the HOA is strict and way too exp. And stupid. They wouldn't let us in to see the unit. So my realtor talked her way in for 10 minutes. I was in Connecticut, FaceTimed me. All I saw was behind her, the view of the ocean. And I'm like, let's do it. Good timing. It was like in May, June 2020, before everything in Florida really began to skyrocket, especially at the beach. And I would come down every other weekend when my kids were with their dad. I was devastated to be, like, alone in this big house in Connecticut. Like, you create this home and this life for your children, and then you're alone. And I couldn't handle it. I would just melt down because I missed my babies, you know, even though they were where they should be at that time with their dad. He was great, you know, so I would just escape down here for 48 hours, get off the air, go straight to the airport. And the water and the sun and the sand, like, healed my soul. It sounds so lame, but it healed my soul. And it had to happen this way. I think you find out who your friends are. And that really, that was probably the hardest part, is just realizing, gosh, I guess I was only there for that person because I carried some weight at ESPN and could help out over here. That was probably the worst after the cancellation. But, man, literally, it just had to be this way. And I remember praying. New Year's Day, 2024, I got in the water. I had to fly back home that day. I had Evan with me. My youngest daughter and I had been out on a date on New Year's Eve. Horrible. Like, so stupid. So stupid. He was too young. Fine. It's a story for another day.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, well, could be a story for today.

[Sage Steele]

I need your tequila.

[Dave Rubin]

That can be arranged too.

[Sage Steele]

And I remember just being like, you're so dumb, Sage. Like, why? But my friends are like, hey, who cares? You're single. Like, go for it. Just say yes. Go on a date. What were you gonna say, Sage?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, no, because we covered the story. I don't want. Well, you're also. Your daughter's in the room, so I don't know how much you're gonna do right now. But we covered that story about Charlize Theron talking about having sex with that younger guy. So it's. And you went on a date with a younger guy. I'm not implying anything here, but, like, I can sense some like. Well, I guess you're. Because I can see you're a little like, ah, he was too young in the first place. We talked about her at. At 50, I think, having sex with a 26 year old. Like there is.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Multiple layers here.

[Sage Steele]

Multiple layers, for sure. I was. We were talking about this earlier. Just, I mean, I knew better before. There were a couple of dates. I knew better beforehand, but I was like, again, okay, who cares? I said this earlier when. When we were going to meet up somewhere, dinner, and I. He suggested the place and I was like, okay, on 7:30. And he's like, bet. I was like, what bet? Like, I thought. I misunderstood. Bet. Guys, you know what bet means?

[Dave Rubin]

Bet? Black Entertainment Television.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, but I don't. They don't like me there. So. I mean, no, BET means like, cool. Yeah, sure. I was like, bet. And I hung up. And I was like, what the hell am I doing with my life? What does BET mean?

[Dave Rubin]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

So I. There's just. It's. It's a different generation.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, no. Yeah. So see, you got me off track with it. Oh. So I was in the ocean on New Year's Day after the crappy date and I literally got in, which is what I always did when I had to go back to Connecticut. And I said, lord, don't bring me anybody until you bring me somebody. I make it really clear. That was my prayer.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Because I didn't trust myself. And I was like, well, you know, you're lonely and you, you do like, no. Why are you lowering your bar? And so that was.

[Dave Rubin]

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[Dave Rubin]

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[Dave Rubin]

Bon voyage.

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[Sage Steele]

It's my prayer on January 1, 2024. And when I say it was like the Sahara Desert from January 1st until November 12th, 2024, when I met Dave, it was. And I had asked God, don't bring me anybody till you bring me somebody. Make it clear. It was clear as day. And I. That night when it hit me, I thought back to being in the ocean on January 1st. And I'm like, he's literally answering my prayers. Because I said, make it really obvious. I asked him to make it very obvious. Um, and I'll shut up after this. Like, Dave asked me a weekend. He's in Nashville, I'm in Florida. You know, four or five hour phone conversations. All three kids had gone off to college, which was why I made the full time move to Florida only after they were gone. And okay, um, and he said, what do you want in a relationship? Like, what are your requirements? And for the first time I was unafraid to say what I really wanted. And the first thing for me was that I needed someone to walk this faith journey with me because I always had a strong faith, but I wasn't fully committed to it, I don't think. And fully living it in every aspect. But I want someone that will pray with me and resort to that before other things, before therapists, all these things. Like, so I finally could say that and mean it. And it was what he wanted too. Like, there's just so much God that's involved in this. And I was never open about my faith. As Catholics, you stay really quiet. You know, you pray on Sunday, you kneel, you stand, you sit, you do all the things. And then you pray quietly on your own. And I'm not saying I'm at a Baptist church waving my arms and passing out or anything. No, it's not me. But the fact that I can share that with someone again. My only sadness is that it didn't happen sooner because this person is so. He's just incredible. But I wouldn't have met him if it had happened sooner. And I do believe that God made it happen this way.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. And you've got these three great kids.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Who. You know what. Get to see their mom fail personally, unprofessionally in many ways. Dad too. Right. All of it. But then get to see us pick ourselves back up and still remain positive and grateful and smile and have fun and take chances and look like an idiot and not know what that means and get back up and try it again. And then to find love again. I actually really am so grateful that they get to see a different version of me, you know, and their dad who's happy with someone else. Like, they get to see that you don't settle. And I think quite often that's what we're told to do. I think that's changing in society. But sometimes it's not right. And you have tough decisions to make, even if they are difficult for others. But what's on the other side can be beautiful. And that's what I hope that they take. Ask questions differently than I did at the beginning. In their twenties. Stay true to what it is that's super important to them. Even if it's hard to say. That's what I know my mistakes. I pray will do for them.

[Dave Rubin]

What was it like to close the door on the house in Connecticut for the last time? Because that's something like. I can't even imagine that now raising these kids in this house like the idea that one day I will say goodbye to this house. You know, move, downsize, whatever it might be like, just to say goodbye to the place where your family, you've raised your family.

[Sage Steele]

Cause it's not a house. It's a home. You have created a home here for you and David and your boys. Like, it is home. And I think I learned that as a military kid where we had to move every two years and with no money. My mom and dad, they figured it out and did it. And every house was a home. And that started with personalizing it and letting us pick our comforters. And even though we knew we had to leave in a year, I did that to that last house with the kids, every house that we lived in. And when Evan went off to college as the last one last year, I had all three in college. Thank God one graduating has a job. But it was. Make me cry now. I was devastated because it was the end of that entire chapter of life. Like, it was. It was over. And then you talk about empty nester.

[Dave Rubin]

And also it was very unsure on the other side. Now it's. Now it's getting a lot more sure for you. But career wise and personally, it was very unsure at that point.

[Sage Steele]

I put the house for sale.

[Dave Rubin]

And you were moving to a new state. I mean, it was pretty much everything.

[Sage Steele]

Everything. Sold the house in, like, three hours. Thank you. Sold the house, sold everything in it. Had an estate sale. Kept things that were important to the kids. And I have a small storage unit in Connecticut. And I thought, well, someday I hope to have a house, a home again with somebody, and when I do, I'll get the stuff out of storage. And Evan had one. I said, everybody gets, you know, one big thing that they get to keep. Small things, fine, but a big thing. And she wanted to keep her bed and nightstand that she got when she was 14 from Restoration Hardware team. Ooh.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, very fascinating.

[Sage Steele]

Our age teen. That was a big one.

[Dave Rubin]

Damn, that ESPN money.

[Sage Steele]

I know. I was like, you're kidding. Killing me, but okay, fine. And I can't wait to put that bed and nightstand in a bedroom for her probably soon. A bedroom that looks very different than any of us imagined with Dave, you know, and we're gonna have bedrooms for all five kids. Somehow we're gonna figure it out. But, like, to drive away from that. I went through each room and, like, prayed in each room and just was very grateful. And then I remember taking a video of myself walking down the driveway for the last time to get in my car. I had Two suitcases, a case of wine, some tequila, and the one plant that I hadn't murdered. And I just started driving and it was 23 hours by myself. I'd never driven more than three hours without, like, crashing because I'd fall asleep at the wheel a lot. It's not a problem.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, you're not supposed to drink the wine before you take the drive.

[Sage Steele]

You do know that I just get my. I just fall asleep when it's like highway. It was the most amazing, therapeutic drive by myself. Like, starting alone in a white sedan, just driving. And when I pulled into my condo and, you know, like, had the thing in my car and the gates opened, I sobbed again because I'm like, happy tears, as I say, said to the kids, since they were little. These are happy tears because I'm choosing what I want this to look like. And I actually don't know what that is. I know that it's gonna start here in a small condo compared to the big house and by the ocean that has helped me through so much and given me that escape. And I went on my balcony with a glass of wine and took a selfie so I can look back on that knowing that that was like, you know, driving away was hard. Um, but again, I want the kids to see that. Like, you can sit, you can say goodbye. And instead of, like, focusing on the sadness of saying goodbye, let's celebrate the amazing memories that we got to create in this awesome house. Like, there's so many memories and videos, you know, and that's what you're creating here. And fortunately, like, you know, when Mike Quinn was born in 2002, you didn't have your phones everywhere and videos everywhere and documenting everything. That has changed. I did a lot of that at the end there, but it is. And then I just said, I'm going to say yes to everything. And so when the Trump team Trump called and they're like, you want to come with Laura? And I was like, what? Yeah, let's just go. Let's say yes to everything and try it. I said yes to that. I said yes to being able to just come and sit with you and talk and be okay crying and looking like an idiot. I said yes to going to Nashville that night on November 12th, even though I actually canceled something else to go just for the hell of it. Like, when you say yes. Crazy things can happen, guys.

[Dave Rubin]

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[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Dave Rubin]

Felt that literally we were standing right there. You turned around and I, I just immediately was like, I've known her forever. And then that's gotta be less than two years ago. Basically. Probably about two years, something like that. And then subsequently in these two years, our world just kept colliding. And that's one of the other interesting things about the. The Internet or whatever it is that we're part of now. Like, you start like good people, keep finding each other or keep getting pushed together in a weird way, like by some other.

[Sage Steele]

I don't think it's not an accident. But you. From a distance, before I even knew you. It was inspiring me. And I didn't quite put that together at the time. But with your journey and what it took for you to say, okay, enough, we're selling the house, we're out. I'm taking you guys with me. Are you going to come? You know, are you going to be on this train? Like, that was A massive risk. I don't care how successful you were at the time or had been, it was still a huge risk to go and start over. And then you have a responsibility now because it's not just you and David. Right. It's the. It's the team. People who are depending on you and depending on your success so they get a paycheck. And then you've continued to create that for other people. I mean, just our. Our actual friends show, you know, like, having such a blast just saying yes to it. But it's. That's what I hope people look at and take when they see you and see me on a much lesser level, as I'm just really starting out in this world. Just like, just try it. What the hell? Look what can happen.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, that's why I said for to. I said it on the first episode of the show with me, you, and Russell. Like, we're all doing it for nothing. We have not made one dime on it. And the idea is, let's build it for a while. Let's have fun. See if we enjoy it, which we really are enjoying it.

[Sage Steele]

I love it.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Like, every time it ends, I'm like, that was good. It was different. It was real. It was raw. We've brought in, you know, Roseanne's done it, and a couple other people have done it. But, like, that you just keep trying things. And I think if you just keep trying things with good people, like, good things just happen. I actually don't think it's much more complex than that in some sense.

[Sage Steele]

And it's all about the people. That's literally all I care about right now when it comes to business.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Am I working with good people? I worked with so many hundreds and hundreds of great people through 29 years in network TV, and there are a lot of jerks, too, man. And those are the ones who are like, whoa, why? Like, why are you so miserable and hateful?

[Dave Rubin]

I don't want to get too much on this tangent, but we talked about him once before, and I don't mean to make about him exactly, but when you see someone that really seems to go over the deep end in our world, so Keith Olbermann, for example, do you think that. Is that just. Is that fame going to somebody's head? Is that money going to somebody's head? We don't even have to make it about him specifically. Feel free to say whatever you want, obviously, but, like, because I've seen a lot of that. I've seen people that I thought were so incredible Who've completely lost their mind. I've seen. And then I've seen people who I thought were kind of average that really turned out to be spectacular and every version of that.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Dave Rubin]

But like, when you see people that really like had it all seemingly and then just like go just nuts, like, what do you think's going on there to say?

[Sage Steele]

Okay. KO I don't like to say his full name. I think there is true mental illness with him. Like I do. And it's sad because I remember looking up to him so much and so uber talented. We all did.

[Dave Rubin]

I told you I wanted to be that. I was watching in College, heyday of SportsCenter with him and Dan Patrick and Craig Kilborn, who I thought he was the one that made it funny. And I was like, that's what I want to do. That's it. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So talented, but big picture. Aside from whatever's going on in his life, sadly, I think people forget where they come from. They lose perspective. Yes. The fame gets to your head. Listen there. There's always gonna be a part of that when the light comes on, there's an adrenaline that comes with it. And then you continue to go search for it, I think. And I like, I miss live TV and do it, I guess, in many ways, you know.

[Dave Rubin]

But do you feel that? So you feel live streaming is different than live TV just cause it's not as produced and there aren't as many key grips and gaffers and it's just a different event.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, you live stream literally every day. I don't mind's taped, but I. But it's as live as we say, right? I mean, with my show, there's no editing.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Zero. It would help me sometimes if I allowed it, you know, But I'm like, no, this is me, authentically me. And even if on actual Friends, I'm singing the wrong theme song through the cartoon, like whatever it is what it is. And I can mock myself. I have people in my life who would never have allowed me to get too big for my britches and to forget my roots and humble beginnings. And I shudder when I see people. And you are watching them evolve in the wrong way. You're watching them change before your eyes. And when it gets to them, the fame, the recognition, money, whatever it is, I'm like, oh, no, no, no. I believe that you can be famous and uber successful and still be kind and still be respectful and be humble. Like, it doesn't mean you don't have confidence, but that self deprecating. Vibe at times we all need a little more of that, you know, So I, I just. You see it everywhere. And it's not just in our industry, right? I mean, corporate America and these CEOs and. But it's a choice. And I remember feeling a certain way sitting next to certain people on the SportsCenter set and people I used to admire and look up to and you know, women. And I'd be like, oh my gosh, she's so good on camera. And then the second the lights go off, how are they treating the intern or the producer who is afraid of her? Never ever will I allow myself to get to that point. And so I'm glad I got to witness that. And there's just too many people. And you know, someday in the book.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, it'll all be there. It'll all be there. Well, I guess partly that's also changing because the nature of having a phone in everybody's pocket is changing. So in the old days, you can think of like the TV host who was perfect on camera but then yelling at the guys off camera where now they can't really get away with it the way they used to because everybody's recording everybody and everybody's got an ear on something. So it doesn't, it's a little trickier these days probably to be so.

[Sage Steele]

I think so.

[Dave Rubin]

To be so outwardly evil. I suppose there's probably ways you could be underhandedly evil.

[Sage Steele]

True. But then even if it's not caught on camera, word of mouth, man. And that word gets out and you hear things about like Charlize, they're on. And how through the years, I don't know how she is now. Before she talked about sleeping with the 26 year old and how great it was, which was. I'm like, what? Ew? Like, not that he's 26, that the fact that you have to sit there and brag about it, but go ahead, you do you girl. But like the behind the scenes person. And again, how do you treat the crew? How do you treat everybody else? And now like that'll, it's, that'll get out to everybody on X and on whatever platform. But I just feel like all those people who have, who have lost it and changed what's in here, like in your heart that is allowing you to act that way. And one time I was on air with another one of these women who I idolized. And at the end of our two hour Sports center show, actually it was like a three hour Sports center show, she said something Nasty in the last 20 seconds to me. And then on a commercial break, it said something about my clothes to me. And this is 2008, probably. So I was much nicer then.

[Dave Rubin]

Linda Cohn. Was it Linda Cohn? It wasn't Linda Cohn.

[Sage Steele]

It was not Linda Cohn.

[Dave Rubin]

Okay. Okay.

[Sage Steele]

No, it's not Linda Cohn. It's easy to narrow stuff down.

[Dave Rubin]

Watch.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll have to think it through. All right.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, there's two of them, actually.

[Dave Rubin]

Gotcha.

[Sage Steele]

One of them came shortly after I arrived there, but whatever.

[Dave Rubin]

I like this. You're laying out all the breadcrumbs for us. Yeah. It's a choose your own adventure.

[Sage Steele]

Right. Super talented, but, like, oh, my gosh, why? And I remember getting in the car and calling my mom right away. Cause she had seen it live.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And I was like. I mean, I was almost in tears.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, it was on air.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, it was live on air. Yeah. I was like, mom. And she's like, that was awful. And then she said, you know, what was the reaction? I said, well, the producer got in my ear and actually apologized for her. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like. I was like. But I look up to her, and she's a mother. And I thought, like, her kids were a little older, she could give me some advice to survive at the worldwide leader. And Again, this is 0708, very different time. Um, and she's like, sage, this has nothing to do with you. She doesn't dislike you. She dislikes herself. Or there's something maybe difficult, sad going on in her life right now, which is no excuse. But as I always said to my kids, like, there's no excuse for bad behavior, no matter what's going on in your life. But there might be a reason. And I do think that those are two different things. Like, it doesn't excuse your behavior. But maybe that's why she was off that day and snapped at me and tried to show me up on Live to be embarrassed me. And it worked.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

But it is. I've always kept that with me, that when someone's nasty in traffic, if they flip you off, if you accidentally cut them, like, okay, yeah. Is that about you, per se? Probably not. And that's been helpful.

[Dave Rubin]

And as Jerry Seinfeld points out, all they're doing is showing you their finger.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Like, at the end, like, you're offended by that. My God, they showed me their finger.

[Sage Steele]

Holy devastation.

[Dave Rubin]

It's terrible. It's terrible.

[Sage Steele]

Let go of it.

[Dave Rubin]

I just want to jump back for a Second. Cause when I asked you the question about closing the door of your home, since we're here with a lot of 20 year olds and we're of a certain age, do you remember the last episode of Three's Company by any chance? John Ritter, who was amazing, amazing, and we really love Susan, he was so great. But the ending, the last episode, he walks out, Jack Tripper walks out, and Janet walks out. And then the blonde who was the nurse wasn't Christy. It wasn't Chrissy. It was whoever, that blonde that came in for those last two seasons. She closes the door, she shuts the light, and she gives this nod. She's kind of like as if she had done everything she was supposed to do there. And it reminded, when you were saying that you had sort of closed up that chapter and moved on, it felt sort of complete. And the reason I'm doing a little callback, the reason I'm doing a little callback with that is because everything that you've just described in your career since then, then you dove into this whole new world. You didn't know what the hell you were doing, but then just kept taking these chances, and it worked. You didn't know what you were doing in the dating world, and it worked. And it's like, that's the lesson that I was trying to illustrate for people on this. On this August show.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, on this August show. Yeah, you're right. And there was a moment when I did drive away from that house. And also when you sell it, and I sold it, like I said, in three hours for, like, so much over asking, I was like, you're an idiot. Like, why would you.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, people were still trying to escape New York City. Little did they know, Connecticut was probably not gonna go the right way.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. No, exactly. But it's almost like validation that you did a good job. Because if someone walked into your home and loved it so much that they wanted to bring their children in and they have two little boys and raise them there and not change a thing and keep whatever they could that I was willing to leave for them, I'm like, okay, I did a good job. And now someone else feels comfortable enough to do that. And then you can walk away knowing that, gosh, it wasn't perfect, but I did my best. And I also felt that leaving espn, I knew that I had already gone beyond what I ever dreamt of to be hosting NBA Countdown. And to me, during the greatest run since the Jordan era was with, you know, the warriors and the Cavs. I did all the finals from 12 through 19. And it was the best run. And it's like, okay, after that, there was. I came back to SportsCenter. My roots. Yeah, I knew there was nothing left there. That's not why it ended. But I could leave that knowing that, man, I left it all out there and did my best and learned so much and changed so much. And I thought, as I'm driving away in tears. I started at ESPN with my kids, ages 11 months, 2, and 4, and I left, and they were 18, 20, and 22. It's a lifetime. And I wouldn't have had so much if not for those years there, which is why you don't change anything. But it was healthy. I don't have a desire to go back and visit. I kind of. I'm good. Obviously, I didn't love it there anyway, between the weather and the taxes and the people and. I mean, there were certainly some awesome people, but, like, I think moving my whole life as an army kid, leaving is hard. And to go back, it just brings back all these things, some of which are really good, but they're past. And you can't go recreate it even if you want to. So you have to go recreate it elsewhere with other people.

[Dave Rubin]

It's not like you're gonna walk into the office in Bristol and they're gonna be like, sage, it turns out you were right about everything. We missed you.

[Sage Steele]

Although, hello, I saw Aaron Rodgers on the other day, and again, we're taping this in July with Pat McAfee, of course, who now is one of the kings of espn, who. I do like Pat, and talking about how, yeah, I stood up and, you know, ends up. I was right. I was talking. I got canceled a month before Aaron got canceled, and we got to be closer friends during that time, because as soon as I saw his cancellation, I texted him and I pushed send, and he was immediately writing back because we were all in this, like, fearful, crazy thing. And he. I remember telling him, telling me that he would get text messages from some of the other top, top, top quarterbacks in the league and players, but specific quarterbacks who were like, dude, I'm with you. I'm right there with you. Not one said it, though, publicly and let him fry. They were fine with that.

[Dave Rubin]

So there was nothing more that I hated than that. During the height of. When I was saying a lot of things about the left. Now, everyone says. But when it was tough to say it at that time, and I was getting all the hate for that and all that, there was nothing I hated more than go, open it up, Twitter, have a dm. And every time, I'd be like, I know what this is. And it would be someone usually more famous, more successful, more money, blah, blah, saying, I love what you're doing. Love what you're doing. Okay, you want to get in on the party, pal?

[Sage Steele]

Help me out.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, it's that Bruce Willis Die Hard thing. Welcome to the party, pal. Like, come on. You see, I'm up here, got no shoes, my feet are bleeding, It's Christmas Day. All hell's breaking loose.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, that broke my heart for Aaron, because I was in it, too. But his was so much bigger because he's Aaron Rodgers and just got crucified and continued to. And then, I mean, I think it very much affected him. And he's. He does things. I mean, it affects all of us. But, like, you've seen him change since that time. Yeah, and breaks my heart for him, but he was right. All of us who pointed those kind of hypocrisies out and things that just didn't make sense, even though we didn't know why it didn't make sense at the time, it just didn't feel right, you know? So, yeah, I look back on that, along with Aaron and you and a million other people, I'm like, yeah, damn it. I was right. I was right to question it, you know? And I. And I also look back and I laugh at the things that people on their airwaves are allowed to say now. Like, I'm like, wait, I got suspended? For what? But, man, I was there at the best time. Thank goodness I was there at the height.

[Dave Rubin]

Today's show is brought to you by Rumble Premium, the home of free speech and exclusive content from the Voice. With Rumble Premium, you get ad free viewing, access to exclusive shows and premium features across the platform. We're talking about Crowder's mug club, Tim Pool's Tim Cast, Russell Brand's raw commentary, and much more. Whether it's breaking news, real talk, or the content that challenges narratives, Rumble Premium puts you into the front row. Support creators who actually say what they mean and mean what they say. Go to rumble.com premium rubin to join today. That's rumble.com premium, Ruben, because truth shouldn't come with a filter. You showed me a clip right before we started, so this will be a couple weeks old by the time we start. But this is at a WNBA game. Guys, let's. Let's. We'll throw the clip in in post. I don't even know the broadcaster's name. Maybe you know her name. But I mean she just made a joke about getting the D. Most people know what that means and she did that. Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

[Will]

Honestly Will, I didn't plan any trips but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.

[Dave Rubin]

That's not the itinerary we're following.

[Will]

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

[Dave Rubin]

Bon voyage.

[T-Mobile Representative]

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[Dave Rubin]

Clearly prepackaged and pre planned on network television.

[Sage Steele]

Well again we hope it gets a little bit more competitive because like a.

[Will]

Girls trip to Cancun right now there's.

[Dave Rubin]

No D. I would assume The WNBA wants 13 year old girls to watch. I'm gonna go out on a limb and think that the 39 year old parent of that girl is not too thrilled with that. Am I just an old fogey?

[Sage Steele]

No, you're not. I was blown away but not surprised because of who it was. That clip tells you everything.

[Dave Rubin]

Like yeah, I mean I par for.

[Sage Steele]

The course for that person who I don't really want to call a woman because it's not very feminine or womanly to I think act that way specifically plan that kind of a joke on national tv when you to your point you have young women who are watching because the numbers of the WNBA continue to increase and the ratings were bringing so many fans into women's sports and women's basketball. And you gotta say that so you can get some clicks like just the lack of couth and class.

[Dave Rubin]

But in some way does it feel like the next extension of the internal struggle that's happening with the WNBA now? Like this thing that's between where there's this sort of. Well there's clearly a racial tension then there's the financial tension which I guess is the meta tension above everything that they claim that they're not being paid enough, even though the league loses $40 million a year. But. So you have the financial tension. There seems to be some racial tension.

[Sage Steele]

There's definitely some racial tension.

[Dave Rubin]

There seems to be some sexuality tension.

[Sage Steele]

There's that.

[Dave Rubin]

There's just general, like, we're not the NBA tension. Right. Like, I don't even mean it financially, but the skill level, it's just different. Guys and girls are different. That's not to say girls aren't awesome, obviously, but in some way, when I saw it, when you showed me the clip this morning, that clip that we're talking about, I was like, oh, well, this just kind of feels like the next obvious step. Now. The broadcasters are all will all act the same way. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. Like it's just everything and nothing at the same time.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, but the question is why.

[Dave Rubin]

Right? It's so unnecessary.

[Sage Steele]

But that's the thing when you. Goes back to our prior conversation, when you make it about you and you make it about yourself in that moment on a really big stage, especially based on how much WNBA has grown with Caitlin Clark and many other women, they just keep shooting themselves in the foot. And it isn't just the athletes and not supporting each other or not supporting Caitlin Clark or whatever it is. If it's the broadcasters too. Like, guys just. It's. It's bad business.

[Dave Rubin]

So what do you make about the. The racial element to it? Because if you saw. I'm a child of the 80s, so of course I remember the Magic Bird thing. And it was. There was. There was a racial element to it in that Bird was white, from Indiana and Magic was la. You know, he was from Michigan, but. But la Magic. But it wasn't racial really. Like, there was like a tiny tone of it, like, one of these guys is white and one of these guys is black. But that really was it. Right. Do you think that's a fair estimation? It wasn't. It wasn't really thought of as race. Like, they weren't. They weren't race fighting.

[Sage Steele]

Not at all.

[Dave Rubin]

Where now there's this feeling of they are hitting this girl because she is white.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. It was my favorite time in basketball. And I know we have this in common too. And those Detroit Piston bad boy days, like late 80s, early 90s.

[Dave Rubin]

But they'd kick the shit out of anybody. It didn't matter if you were white or black or if you were.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it was such a great era. You didn't look at it that way. I mean, obviously when people Say, I don't see color certain on the left. Get mad. Of course you. Stop taking me literally. Of course I see it. I just don't lead with it. I don't lead with the race aspect of whatever this is, with that. I mean, it was great marketing, too. And you have, you know, big white. Aw, shucks, darn. You know, Larry Bird from French Lick, Indiana, and then Magic Johnson and, you know, I mean, the show that. The Los Angeles Smile, Smile.

[Dave Rubin]

Everything about it, it was just perfect.

[Sage Steele]

And it was unintentionally, I guess, maybe racial, but you never heard it brought up. No one said anything about it. It was like, this is just great basketball with Caitlyn.

[Dave Rubin]

And certainly nobody cared on the court. I guess that's the override. Of course nobody cared on the court.

[Sage Steele]

No how. Are you kidding me? Larry? Like, we're gonna feed Larry the ball. He's the best person, one of the best to ever step on the court. Of course. And they just wanted to beat each other because they wanted to beat each other. That's the goal. And you also want to beat the greatest. You want to beat the best. And that's what they were doing to each other for all those years. It was beautiful. I like that they want to beat Caitlin because she's one of the best players that the league has ever seen and one of the. Certainly the best. The best college basketball player for women that we've ever seen. And statistically, look at the numbers comparing to men as well, even though it is a different game, but they've really not even tried to hide that racial aspect of it. And I don't understand why. The only conclusion I think we can come to is jealousy. And at the end of the day, if she's bringing more eyeballs to not just her team in Indiana, but to the entire league, isn't that a win for everybody? Look at the increase in the value of all of these WNBA franchises right now. Is they're able to expand, actually, you know, so. So why the hatred? Why the negative? Well, we were good before she came. Okay, yes, you were good basketball. Your game probably hasn't changed too much. But at the end of the day, she's like. She is something that we have not seen, no one had. It doesn't mean Maya Moore wasn't great or Sue Bird. This is a different kind of great, and it's okay to celebrate it. Even if she's a white girl from Iowa.

[Dave Rubin]

I told you I was watching in 95. And Cynthia Cooper, I was like, this is. And she was Old at the time, by the time the WNB started, but she was unbelievable. But do you think there's something maybe a little bit more about the female temperament or about the way females generally behave with each other as it relates to jealousy or something that's leading to this where so like you have Magic and Bird, they're, you know, they explode the NBA and then in some sense, I mean, they talk about it in the, in the book about the Dream Team. They knew it was time to hand it to Jordan and now Jordan was going to take the league and then he did unimaginable things with it where the girls for some reason seem to think it's gonna take away from them as opposed to that this could all add on together something. Something like that?

[Sage Steele]

Well, yeah, I mean, that's.

[Dave Rubin]

I know that's like a kind of broad stroke, but like.

[Sage Steele]

No, it's probably true. You just look at women in general and women get petty and have these little fights and arguments. Men are like, dude, what the hell did you do that for? Okay, sorry, let's go get a beer. Like, it's just. You guys are much better about that than we are and probably ever will be. Certainly always have been. I also think that there is the sexual tension that goes along with the racial tension. I. I don't know exactly how that. How this works itself out because it is there. And if she were black though, it would. I believe it would be different. I think this is all tied into the woke culture. You certainly see how that was handled with the WNBA a couple of years ago. And remember. Oh gosh, Kelly from Kelly Loeffler? Remember she used to be one of the owners of the Atlanta Dream.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. I saw her speak yesterday at the NBA. She was so impressive.

[Sage Steele]

She's wonderful. I really enjoyed being around her. But how she was treated and God forbid you have a different opinion than the wnba. I know people in that league who have very conservative views would not dare say it out loud because it's the wnba. So if you are white in a league that certainly has majority of black players, I think it's safe to say I don't know the numbers. And a heterosexual and getting all the attention, this is the result, I guess, which is shameful because.

[Dave Rubin]

But it's the logical conclusion of wokeness, basically, is what you're saying that you in some sense be happy if the white straight girl who was the star got taken out. Like actually that is what equity would be if she broke her leg.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I mean, but look at the reaction to Her. And obviously you're gonna game plan to try to slow down the best player on the other person's team, double team, whatever it is. But the physical nature of it and the attacks and the going after. I'm not saying she's innocent. She's a hell of a good trash talker. And good. Like that's part of the game. Lyric Bird was arguably the best trash talker ever. People just didn't see it, right? And he's like, oh, it's the country boy from Indiana. Oh, no, get out of it. He is filthy dirty. He was dirty. I was in Indianapolis covering the Pacers in 98. I think it was when he took over as the head coach and he was savage. He scared the crap out of me as the coach, much less Larry Legend. So get it, girl. You know, that's part of the game. But I don't understand. I mean, I think we know why we've talked about it, right? But someone needs to get in the ears of these girls, women and coaches and at the top levels as well, and say you are actually turning people off from your sport because of how you are choosing to treat one person. It just looks petty. And I believe there's so many women who are so good and so talented who are now being lumped together with the idiots who are making it about race and divisiveness. But hey, I do. I think if she were lesbian, it would be a little bit easy for her. Easier for her, right?

[Dave Rubin]

The sexuality component of it is. It's legit, but it's also like really complex and hard to talk about. Also because the racial element, it's become more comfortable to talk about in some sense. The sexuality part, because there's also. Because it's not seen necessarily, also adds like a weird tension to it. And the fact that the. I don't know what the exact numbers are either, but like, it is. It is something psychologically or sociologically to think about that. Let's say gays, the supposedly around 10% of the population. But if they're like half the WNBA, like, how does that change the perception of the league in some sense? Like, yeah, it shouldn't on the basketball court, but if all of that shit is leaking onto the court, then it's something.

[Sage Steele]

But if you look at some of the most successful female athletes in other sports, I mean, they are sexualized and some of them willingly. I mean, you look at some of the outfits and the fashion that's, you know, Serena Williams, who was the tennis.

[Dave Rubin]

Girl, the blonde years ago, Anna Karnikova, Anna Kournikova, who wasn't an. She was pretty good, but not like amazing, but she looked.

[Sage Steele]

I don't think she ever won anything significant as far as tournaments are concerned. And so then, you know, hey, usually the more masculine you are as a woman, the less you're viewed as attractive, it's fair to say. And so then if you have a lot of masculine looking women, maybe predominantly masculine looking women in this sport, any sport, everything's different. The marketing's different. Right. And there are many who are not, who are very feminine and have, you know, lashes and braids and nails and makeup and are very proud of that, you know, I don't care, actually. You do.

[Dave Rubin]

You. Right, right.

[Sage Steele]

I'm just saying what comes with that is maybe not something that you can put your finger on. Exactly. But it's not, it's not shocking. I mean, how many of those WNBA players are getting makeup contract, I don't know. Versus Anna Kournikova with makeup and clothing and all those things.

[Dave Rubin]

Right. It's also just all of it shows that there are differences between people. Because if you like, if I was taking. My boys are 13, we go to a basketball game, we go to a men's game and then there's a fight or something, you'd be like, ah, that's not the right way to play. But something, something where it does strike me, and maybe this is old fashioned, something that if women start fighting with each other and you have to explain that as a mother to your daughter, what they're doing when she loves basketball, it does seem different to me.

[Sage Steele]

Is that just the fight, like the physical aspect of it? Yeah, yeah. And I guess you can go back to the, you know, the stereotypes and I mean guys, the ones that fought after school and if you were the girl fighting after school, then you were ghetto, you were trash, you were whatever, you know, in general, I don't know, do we want our daughters doing that? It's different than on the ice in the NHL. It just is. And that's okay. It doesn't mean we're lesser. It means we're different, you know, So I hope it gets better. Caitlin is coming out now more and more and you can see it in her game, you know, and obviously she's had some injuries here and we need to keep her healthy. But there's many people. And I think I've heard you say this before, maybe on our actual Friends show where you're like, at some point she's just going to be like, why am I Putting up with this, I'm going to get severely injured and it's going to affect everything in my life. Let me go start my own thing. Because you talk about having sponsorships and support and support of middle America and people on the coast who, guess what? They don't even care that she's white. Of course she's. Love the fact that she can ball and her handles and her shooting and her courage. That's all we really care about. I mean, most people, just like everything else, it's common sense. She can play get it girl.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, that's the funny part of her wearing the shirt during the All Star Game. It's like, you are right, actually, perhaps that you are not paid what you should be paid, but you're also subsidizing all of those other people and they want more of what you're bringing them and then they're also kicking the shit out of you. So, like, put the pieces together and then.

[Sage Steele]

Did you see what Kelsey Plum did?

[Dave Rubin]

I'm not sure.

[Sage Steele]

She. She used to play for the Aces. I think she's with LA now. I can't remember. Can't keep track of all of it and don't really choose to in some.

[Dave Rubin]

Ways, to be honest with you. Oh, you don't watch the wnba, do you?

[Sage Steele]

I. I do not make a habit of watching it. I watch clips and highlights. I do not sit down and watch WNBA games. I don't sit down and watch many NBA games right now. My life has changed a lot and I watched thousands. Thousands. I'm like, been there, done that. I'm good and I watch it certain times. Watch the finals and the playoffs. That's it. Especially when the Pacers run. Um, but Kelsey, at the podium after the game talked about wearing the T shirt. Um, and then there was a meeting, I guess a meeting of the minds to talk about the shirt and then what they are demanding or hoping for financially. And she called Caitlin out and I didn't hear the exact sound bite, but I read, you know. Yeah, not to rat on her or anything, but, you know, Caitlin and most of her teammates, they didn't show up at that meeting. Like, what's the point of saying that in front of a microphone and that Kelsey Plum is white and heterosexual? Like, I don't. I don't know what that is. Is it. And fine, maybe you're making a great point, but when you do that publicly, you look like a petty. You know what?

[Dave Rubin]

Like, and also, at the end of the day, it's the same thing as the Colbert Thing we were talking about on. On actual Friends, which is, at the end of the day, the WWNB is losing 40 mil a year. Colbert was losing 40 million a year. Your leverage in reality to complain is not that great.

[Sage Steele]

It's not. And I think that sometimes, you know, some of these athletes and in all sports, right, you start to believe the press a little bit too much, and it's like, okay, can you just scale it back here? Has it grown? Yes, absolutely. We know that it's being, you know, hugely subsidized by the NBA, and that's okay, too. I think people feel safe, especially in this climate, even though it's turning a little bit. Think back a couple years ago, like, they could say and do no wrong. And who's going to cancel a women's league that's made up probably more than 50% minority? You're not touching that, are you? No way. Maybe they're smart. I hope they get it, but I don't know, you know, do they say, well, oh, my gosh, well, so and so deserves. I think the Highest salaries are 150 ish thousand dollars a year based on the valuation of one of the franchises. Like, I understand that. That's why you're in the CBA talks right now. And hopefully by the time this airs, it's over with and people are happier.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

But guess what? All those times of flying commercial, well, and it's improved, right? And now you're private. Now you get the fancy hotel. But why is that, right? Because of people like Caitlin Clark who have helped grow it. And everybody's winning.

[Dave Rubin]

Isn't there some phrase about biting the hand that feeds you? I think that's. That's the point.

[Sage Steele]

I don't get it.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't know how that's all gonna resolve, but I'm off the grid. I'm off the grid.

[Sage Steele]

Officially off. Have you announced? Does everyone know where you are right now?

[Dave Rubin]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sage Steele]

This is a secret. I forget because.

[Dave Rubin]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sage Steele]

I'm not saying no. Every year I'm in awe. And I'm like, okay, that's on the list. And now this is on the list. And now this is on the list.

[Dave Rubin]

Like, why don't you do it next? All right, that's my official challenge. Next year when you steal it, right now you're going to be married. The career has settled in again. You're going to be happy. You don't need the grind. Who needs it? Why not? You take one month, one Month.

[Sage Steele]

I've never done that in life.

[Dave Rubin]

When's the last time you did a weekend without the phone?

[Sage Steele]

Without the phone?

[Dave Rubin]

Give me one. Yeah. When's the last time you did 1 day?

[Sage Steele]

Years.

[Dave Rubin]

All right, let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

[Will]

Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.

[Dave Rubin]

That's not the itinerary we're following.

[Will]

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

[Dave Rubin]

Bon voyage.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom.

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[Sage Steele]

Well, okay. Wait.

[Dave Rubin]

You like a challenge? I love the sports world.

[Sage Steele]

I. I have three kids. Like, your kids aren't on a phone yet. No, I got three kids in three different states. I check their location constantly.

[Dave Rubin]

That's the problem. She's right there.

[Sage Steele]

I know. She's got headphones on. She's not even like, will you elbow her, too? They just open. Hey, I'm talk. I'm talking about you. That one will turn off her location on me sometimes. And I'm like, oh, what are you doing wrong? She's like, well, life360. I was like, no, no, no, that's not working either. You cut me off and all. If you want your tuition.

[Dave Rubin]

Wait. Life360. Is that a phrase I supposed to. Oh, that just means I'm living my life. 3:60. I'm living my life.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no.

[Dave Rubin]

I can't be followed. I'm living my life.

[Sage Steele]

360 life 360. This is good. It's one of the only things I know that you don't because my kids are old. Life360 is an app. Oh, it's an app, and basically it's a tracker. But not only does it show, it shows you when they're in a car how fast they're going in life.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, God. This is all evil. This is all evil.

[Sage Steele]

It's evil. Until you have teenagers. And then you're like, oh, really? The first time, when Quinn was 16 and getting her license, she wasn't supposed to have anybody in the car with her. And I could tell she did because the way she was answering. And then it was 35 mile an hour speed limit. And all of a sudden I see that 50, and I was like, to meet.

[Dave Rubin]

I mean, this is like, you're gonna see her heart rate go up and like, what are you doing? Like, I don't. Like, this is. This all ends with Schwarzenegger, total recall, pulling the thing out of his nose. Like, this is terrible.

[Sage Steele]

I don't care. Live three. Okay, so the challenge is what, for a weekend?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, my grand challenge to you is I'm gonna work on this with you over the course of the next year, is for you to take a month off. But I know that's a big ask. So my challenge.

[Sage Steele]

And guess what? I'm not making Ruben money. All right? I can make Ruben money.

[Dave Rubin]

I didn't get the sage steel ESPN buyout or whatever, so we're probably in a similar here. I. My mini challenge will be that at some point in August, you at least take a weekend off the phone. That's the challenge.

[Sage Steele]

What do you. Evan's saying it's not happening. What do you have to do to prepare to do that? Like, say, I love you, everybody. Like, okay.

[Dave Rubin]

And you'll be able to tell your. You could tell your parents and your kids, hey, I'm with Dave. So if there's an emergency, we do have a way to get me. If there's an absolute emergency. You know what I mean? And we had a couple things that there. 1. One of the few things that I said I would come back for is a few years ago, because I knew that Larry King, who was my friend and mentor and like, kind of bonus grandmother, grandfather. I knew that his health was failing, and I really felt that if he passed away, I wanted to be able to just say something, just put something out there and then disappear again. So that was like one, you know, one thing. But then we have like an. If there's an emergency death in the family or that kind of thing, we're attainable. But you have a husband. You will have a. You have a fiance this summer who you could be with that weekend. And that way, if your kids need you need mom, they can reach out to him.

[Sage Steele]

No, you're right.

[Dave Rubin]

You have a human with you. A human is what a phone used to be. You have a human with you who will be it would be nice if he could do it, too. But one thing at a time here.

[Sage Steele]

So before we reconvene. Yes, that's.

[Dave Rubin]

The challenge is to regent that when I see I'm. The next time I see you after today is going to be on your wedding day. And I want to be able to kiss you and hug you and know that you took the ultimate challenge of two days off your phone.

[Sage Steele]

Listen, my challenge now is making sure my arms look good in my dress. Okay? And now you're telling me then that's a big challenge. And now you're telling me that I have to put my phone down for a weekend.

[Dave Rubin]

Okay, it's your daughter's headphones in right now. So I can say, well, take them off.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, leave them on. Never mind. Put it on.

[Dave Rubin]

Because you just got engaged. And if you guys take the weekend off the phone, I'm sure you'll find some other. Okay. End the show. End the program. What? If you're tired of the mainstream media circus and want more honest conversations, go check out our media playlist. And if you want to watch full interviews on a wide variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist. All right. Over here. And to get notified of all future videos, be sure to subscribe and click the notification bell.