Dave Rubin (11:28)

Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

Will (11:33)

Honestly Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new family freedom offer.

Dave Rubin (11:40)

That's not the itinerary we're following.

Will (11:43)

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

Dave Rubin (11:56)

Bon voyage.

T-Mobile Advertiser (11:58)

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 8 $29.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile.

Eckhart Tolle (12:24)

But thoughts are actually invisible. If somebody opened my brain in looking for the content of my mind, it wouldn't find it. Thoughts are actually. There's a connection between thought and the human brain, but I don't believe that the brain actually produces thought. It's like a radio receiver for thought. But let's put that aside for a moment. So Aristotle said that it is a mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Very interesting statement. I don't know what the original Greek is educated. I would change that. I don't know whether he actually said educated. It is a mark of an aware mind, of a present mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Which means you can look at a thought that arises in your mind or thought that you see when interact on social media. Something arises in your mind and then you can stand back. If you are aware of you can look at the thought. Then you have a kind of immunity against being taken over by a viral infection of A mental viral infection. You need that. Without the immunity, you are exposed to this danger of being taken over by thought and then believing that who or what you are, then that's your personality and then that's me. You have all kinds of opinions, not realizing that you are not actually thinking. The thinking is happening to you. You have involuntary, incessant mind activity, voice in the head. It doesn't create any great ideas. Deep insights, interesting perspectives. No, it's repetitive. Often it's destructive. Self destructive. Destructive of others sometimes complaining continuously about this or that or the other. So people are. They live with that identity that's based on conditioned thought activity. And that's. That's the. In spiritual terms, that is the unawakened state. In spiritual terms, you could say these people are actually unconscious, spiritually speaking. Which means there's no awareness of their thought. They are so identified with their thoughts, they are. So they are trapped in a conditioned personality. And then life becomes very frustrating because this conditioned personality is never happy for long. It always needs some kind of enemy to fight against because it defines itself through the otherness of others. So it needs to emphasize the otherness of others. It loves its enemies. You can see it online. Or people argue that gives food to this egoic identity. It's all fiction. It's all crazy. So what we need is an awakening, an awakening to this deeper dimension of consciousness that we could call awareness, or we could call it presence. Awareness is a, one could say a different dimension of consciousness. It's not difficult. All that is required is a moment of. Of becoming present in this present moment. Coming aware, looking around. You're breathing. You're alert to your sense perceptions. You can sense your own being, perhaps beyond thought, perhaps the aliveness within your body. And for a moment, the voice in the head subsides and you're just there. Your tension is completely in the present moment. And you're free of the conditioned entity. You have gone deeper. Or you could say higher. Depends how you look at it. And you started to access the deep I that is beyond the conditioned mind. So the deep I is you as consciousness itself. Whereas the conditioned entity that is the surface I is the forms that consciousness has taken temporarily and become a person. So my true identity and your true identity is conscious, your consciousness. Then your secondary identity is consciousness is incarnated into a physical form. And consciousness has taken on the form of who or what you are as a personality. And that's fine. That's how it operates. But unfortunately, most people are completely trapped in the conditioned part of consciousness, having no access to the deeper unconditional, where you find inner peace, an intense sense of aliveness, a sense of beingness, almost sometimes you could say a joyful presence. It's simply you become aware. And this sounds a little strange, perhaps you become aware that you are aware. You become conscious of being conscious. You can sense your own being as consciousness itself. This is not complicated. Don't even try to understand it. Because it's not conceptual to feel the being of you that is deeper than any thought or any emotion, and that is freedom from the conditioned entity of the person. Then the two can live together and in this world, face the challenges of this world so that you don't lose yourself in your mind and lose yourself in the stuff of this world, so that there's always some connectedness with the deeper dimension of being. So another word is stillness. So your great opportunity now that you are going away for months, disconnected from all the digital world, that is a wonderful opportunity to find the stillness within you. It is helpful to go out into nature as much as you can. Not everybody can take a whole month off, but you are privileged to be able to do that. But all those people are not able to do that. It's highly important to take opportunities in our daily life as much as possible to step out of the continuous stream of thinking and so that clutters your mind. A cluttered mind is not creative. When you have a cluttered mind, no creative solution to any problem will come to you. Cluttered mind creates its own problems continuously. You lose access to the realm of creativity within yourself. So I'm very concerned about what's happening, especially to youngsters because their minds become totally cluttered. They're interacting with the digital world, social media and so on, in many cases, five, six hours a day. The world of the digital world, social media, which ultimately is really an externalization of what's within you, of the mind. So the mind was already a problem before we found create all this new technology. But now we have the externalization of the mind in the form of social media that gives even more power to the useless, this useless thinking that people are trapped in. As you probably know, youngsters, young people who have grown up with the social media and all that, many of them are incapable of. Incapable of forming true relationships anymore. Their attention span is extremely short. The mind is continuously cluttered. They do not have a moment. Even boredom. Boredom. People used to complain about being bored. Nowadays, nobody bored anymore. That's a terrible loss because with boredom, at least something opens up and say, what do I do now? Don't know what to do. At least there's a little bit of inner space. But nowadays the moment you feel the light is beginning upon you, pick up your phone and you start scrolling, which means you're adding clutter to your mind. And so this I believe there's some indications that the level of intelligence in humanity is decreasing, that humans are becoming more stupid. If you look at many movements in politics and so on, cultural movements, you can say, well, that's actually true. Reminiscent of the now well known movie Idiocracy that describes how humans decrease of intelligence in humans. So I'm very concerned about how social media affects the consciousness of humans, especially those humans who grow up with it. Now it offers enormous possibilities like what you are doing and other people are doing. So you're using the possibilities that social media offers and it's a great thing because it means humans are have an alternative to the brainwashing of mainstream media. So now you have an alternative and it's a wonderful thing. But on the other hand, there's a danger that humans lose catch with reality because the digital world is not real life. Life is out here. And in worst case scenario. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it is a worst case scenario. Within one or two generations, civilization collapses because humans are incapable of creating anything new and solving their problems anymore. And so let's not whether it is the worst case scenario, but hopefully that's not going to happen.

Dave Rubin (24:50)

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Eckhart Tolle (27:39)

Yes. Well, before I go there, first of all, interesting point you mentioned about listening, listening to another person. That is. That is a skill. That is an art, and it actually true listening, which I believe you are able to do. Although, as you said, as an interviewer, you always think, what's my next question going to be? Because as an interviewer, you don't want to. When the interviewee suddenly stops talking, you need to know what the next question is. So that makes it a little bit more difficult. But in an ordinary interaction, the ability to truly listen to another person is a fantastic thing. And it requires awareness, it requires presence, it requires a certain alertness. In that alertness, you Listen to the words that are coming to you and you're not evaluating or preparing the next thing to say that that actually greatly improves any relationship. If you are able to listen to the other in that state of open presence. It's a wonderful gift to give another person, to simply give them attention, listen. And then the moment this other person stops speaking, perhaps there's a moment of stillness, maybe a few seconds, and then usually some kind of response or additional question comes to you. So that's something to practice, but it's actually a spiritual practice, I would say, to listen to another human being in that state of openness instead of mentally preparing, already preparing the counter argument. Now, your other question is to being present all the time. I think that was your question. Being present.

Dave Rubin (29:41)

Is that really the goal, to be present all the time? Or is it to just understand yourself enough to have accessibility to it? Because we all live in a world where we're hit with all of those things that you talked about. It would almost be impossible to function in a society that is not present. To be present all the time, I'm sure. I mean, I've spent. We had a meal together two months ago. I can't imagine that. Well, it was. We were pretty present, actually. I would say the. But. But to be there all the time seems Herculean or almost inhuman in some sense. So it's about the access to it.

Eckhart Tolle (30:16)

Yes. It's not necessary to be continuously so I. Sometimes I might be engaged when I'm alone. I'm not always, always in the state of thoughtless awareness. Like I don't go around. Like there are random thoughts that come up. But as awareness grows in you, it's a. One could almost say it's a power that gradually grows. I call it sometimes presence power. As you begin to be aware of this, this presence power grows in you. And then gradually, even while you are engaged in thinking or talking to another person, this in the background, you can still feel a little bit of stillness or awareness or your own beingness. So there's always. You don't lose yourself completely in the stream of thinking. Also when you are, let's say you're having an argument with somebody. That's very easy for people to lose themselves when they are arguing with somebody. Because there's a great need in the egoic mind to be right. For the ego to be wrong is a small death because the ego is identified with opinions. Completely identified with an opinion means you derive your sense of self from your opinion. You don't just have an opinion Opinion becomes you and then anybody who questions your opinion becomes your enemy. This is delusion. But billions of people operate in this way. So the danger is when opinion becomes identity, you're lost, you're lost in your mind and you create a lot of unnecessary conflict. Now I have opinions, of course. You can't go around life without. I have certain opinions about. I have even political opinions, not that I talk about them very much, because my function is. I see my function as helping people to become more conscious. I don't want to go to the various positions and I don't want to interact with to immediately. When I can see delusion in people, I don't feel the need to go out and tell them you're deluded, rather help them to be more conscious. Let's say if I were a psychiatrist and somebody came to me, I'm Napoleon. Leaves he ident. He identifies as Napoleon. I would not say you are crazy. Of course you're not Napoleon, get rid of that, daddy. Because immediately he would. The connection would be lost to him. Nor would I say, yes, you are Napoleon. No, that's true, that's wrong too. But listen, bring some present into the interaction and then there may be a possibility that this presence affects him in some way and helps him to go beyond his illusion. Given this example, to say what in my work I consider most important is that not to other people, it's other people's function to actually attack totally erroneous and crazy beliefs. That's perfectly fine. There's a need for that also as long as they are not completely identified with their position. As I said, I have opinions and I could sometimes explain, tell people my opinion. Private interactions. I give my opinion and that's fine if I'm not identified with it. The person who disagrees with my opinion does not become my enemy. But I'm still very far. I can still very clearly state my viewpoint, but I don't become my viewpoint because who I am is not my mental position. I'm not looking for myself in my mental position because I have access to a deeper level of my being itself. In the that alert stillness between two thoughts. Some. Some you feel the I am. One could say the I am without any addition to the I am. The beingness itself, the being of you, that's the ability to sense the being of you, is a wonderful liberation from the personality. The personality, of course continues to operate, but you're not completely lost in the personality.

Dave Rubin (35:36)

Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

Will (35:40)

Honestly, will I Didn't plan any trips but I did switch to T Mobile with their new family freedom offer.

Dave Rubin (35:48)

That's not the itinerary we're following.

Will (35:50)

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

Dave Rubin (36:04)

Bon voyage.

T-Mobile Advertiser (36:05)

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 82999 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due. If you pay off earlier cancel contact.

Eckhart Tolle (36:31)

T Mobile Then you can actually have a discussion with somebody without making them into an enemy. Occasionally I see conscious people talking about politics with different positions and they're able to not completely identify with their position but simply state it clearly without becoming enemies. And it's always wonderful to see. And then others, other interviewers, they thrive on the controversy and shouting of people. I don't, don't want to mention any names but some interviewers are actually quite successful because they generate in the viewer, they generate negative emotion and some people are addicted to the ego is addicted to negative emotion. Give me more of this controversy. Well, I, I know, yeah, Karen.

Dave Rubin (37:29)

Well, I know that when you reached out to me, which must be around 2018, quite probably a year before we ever sat down and ever met and you just basically said something like I enjoy your work. And I thought, I thought, well that's really something because I'm talking about all this. Everyone's fighting about it. You know, that was sort of at the beginning of wokeness and the whole thing. Everyone's fighting all the time. I'm getting, I get so much hate online. And here is this. I've read the Power of now and now that you've met some of my family members, you know how influential you've been in my home. And I thought, well, I guess I must be inherently doing something good if Eckhart sees value in this. And that actually makes me think you've referenced the Internet and social media as it relates to all this. And clearly that's why I'm trying to do this off the grid thing and why I've been doing it. Do you See the Internet now because of some of the things that you mentioned and the scrolling and the fact that we never, you know, I really like that you said we never have a moment alone anymore. There's no boredom anymore. You know, in the old days you used to, if you were meeting a friend before cell phones, you'd have to say, I'll meet you on the corner. And if they weren't there at 7:30, you had to just stand there and wait and you might look at people or stare at the sky. And we just literally never do that anymore because of the phone. So my question is this, do you think that this is, is this genuinely a unique moment that we're in because of the Internet, or is this just the next turn of humanity? That this, you know, there was the printing press, then we got radio, we got tv. The Internet obviously is unique in some sense because of the interconnectivity. But do you view this as just the next version of this? I mean, you've been, you've been talking to people in writing for decades. Do you see a fundamental change in the frustrations, the neurosis, the confusions now that maybe you didn't see 20 or 30 years ago?

Eckhart Tolle (39:19)

Yes, perhaps to do with the technology, there's an intensification of the craziness. The craziness was already there before, but the craziness becomes amplified by the technology that we have. So that's the challenge we face. But at the same time, it's a great opportunity because when the craziness becomes amplified for some people, it becomes easier to recognize it. You see suddenly an amplified version of a craziness that was kind of often underneath the surface. There were always people with crazy ideas before the technology that all they could do is talk to their next door neighbor or some other friend about crazy ideas. Nowadays, everybody can put out their crazy ideas. That's the negative part of the Internet. So the craziness grows and is amplified, but there's also the positive side of it. Of course, that which counteracts the craziness can also operate more effectively now through the Internet. So you have the two. An amplification of the craziness and at the same time the possibility of sanity being disseminated also through this technology. You have the two, which ones?

Dave Rubin (40:46)

I think you're telling us that the world is what you make of it, perhaps.

Eckhart Tolle (40:50)

Yes, yes. Make sure that you are part of the sanity of the technology, that you're not drawn into the insanity, which is very easy to happen when you start interacting on Social media, to become reactive, to find enemies online, people you've never met, and you insult them. You all kinds of call them names. Totally crazy. And it amplifies your ego. You feel it's a total illusion. So there's. Mental illness is growing through that. But the possibility of going beyond the craziness is also there at the same time. So where it's going, I don't know.

Dave Rubin (41:42)

Right. So that's in some sense, probably that's the ultimate question here. I mean, does that leave someone like you? Is hopefulness useful to you even in some sense? I was going to say are you hopeful then with that dichotomy, but I guess in some sense hopefulness probably isn't that important in some way.

Eckhart Tolle (42:00)

No, no, it's. Hopefulness is not. There's not real power behind hope. It's nice to hope, but there's no power. Make sure. I would say instead, make sure that you embody, you represent the sanity in this world. This obviously the famous saying, I can't remember who first said is be the change that you want to see in this world. Some said, and that's very true. So you need to, in your interactions with personal interactions or online interactions, make sure that you are not drawn into the useless, the craziness, sanity. You represent, you embody the sanity. But you may do people, different people do it in different ways. Some people just state, give information out instead of attacking crazy ideas. They just put out information to counteract what state the truth to counteract the craziness. There are other people who are a little bit more aggressive and as long as you don't lose yourself in it, that has a function too. Gadzard is an example of that. I don't think he loses himself in that, but he can be quite confrontational. There's a place for people who have that function also.

Dave Rubin (43:39)

Right. I find, I mean, even when I'm doing my show, I find there's moments where I can be extremely calm telling people what's going on. And that is the authentic me. And then there's time where I'm obviously more ridiculous and then there's times that I am more on the attack and I try to do it in a way that's usually couched in something funny because I'm not. The last thing that I would ever want to do is people, you know, shut off my show and then feel worse. I, I want people to feel better. And it's actually the. To me, it's the best compliment that I get that, that people always say to me, Dave, I feel saner when I watch you. And to me that's like, if I can offer a little of that, that's pretty good.

Eckhart Tolle (44:17)

Yes, yes. You do not disseminate toxicity where some other people do and some become very successful, but it's not good. So I don't watch everything you do, but I don't feel that you disseminate toxicity or negativity. So that's quite an art for people to represent sanity but not make anybody ultimately into your enemy. Because there's always the opinion that people have. People have opinions and they may be completely deluded, but ultimately that's not who or what they are. So in a way it's important not to confuse the perhaps totally erroneous viewpoints or opinions that are disconnected from reality that people are possessed by, not to confuse that with who they are truly and ultimately are. Behind there is a deeper being. And if you want to use religious terms, you can say everybody is a child of God. Everybody is an emanation of the one that we call God. God. This is our see, God is an incomprehensible one, a transcendent realm. There is this incomprehensible, unbelievable, vast intelligence power that emanates like the sun emanates light. The power of God emanates into this world as consciousness.

Dave Rubin (46:19)

Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

Will (46:24)

Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new family Freedom offer.

Dave Rubin (46:31)

That's not the itinerary we're following.

Will (46:34)

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

Dave Rubin (46:47)

Bon voyage.

T-Mobile Advertiser (46:49)

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost to switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte $8,029.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile.

Eckhart Tolle (47:15)

I see Consciousness is emanates emanates from the source of all life that is transcendent and totally incomprehensible. But the consciousness that you can sense within yourself is a ray of that. So that's your. When you become a little bit still, you can sense the essence of who you are as consciousness. You suddenly feel what you can know for sure because everything may be a dream. Perhaps philosopher has been talking about that for centuries. Perhaps this whole life is a dream. In some ways it is a kind of dream because everything dissolves very quickly. And so maybe it is a dream. But even if it is a dream, there's one thing that must be real in the dream, and that's the consciousness in which the dream appears. And that you can be sure of. Oprah used to call her interviewee. The last question she would usually ask the people she interviewed is what do you know for sure? And people all give all kinds of answers. Ultimately, really ultimately, you cannot know anything for sure because everything may be illusory realm. Maybe it's in the matrix or all kinds. You don't know. There's only one thing that you can know for sure, and that is you are conscious or consciousness. Because otherwise nothing could be even. It's a dream. There must be a consciousness in which the dream happens.

Dave Rubin (48:58)

If I am to go off the grid with the last thought in my mind being that Eckhart Tolle said we might be in the Matrix, I'm going to be in a lot of trouble here.

Eckhart Tolle (49:06)

So.

Dave Rubin (49:07)

So I'm going to ask you something that I think I know the answer to, but I think it would be. It'll perfect. It will. Actually, I'm asking this for myself in this sense, and I think it will help other people too. But I think it's a perfect final question for what we're doing here, because I'm really, I'm going to try to incorporate all of this. I try it in general, but really what you've laid out here was what I sort of unknowingly was thinking when I started doing this off the grid thing. And it's why it's been so good for me. It's why so many people are so fascinated by it. And now every year, more and more people reach out to me and say, dave, I'm doing the same thing. Or I can't do it for a month, but I could do it for a week or two weeks or three weeks. But I want to ask you one piece of advice. And again, I think I know the answer. But when I come back, I am going to, you know, sit down with my guest host. I'm going to learn all the stuff that I missed. I'm going to be right back in the throes of the Internet, of the scrolling of the news of the current events, all of the craziness on top of just back to work and interactions with people. And all of that's on top of the nice things about it where people say nice things to me, or the bad part about it where they say terrible things. But it's all going to come flooding back in a pretty, pretty small amount of time. What is the best way to deal with that?

Eckhart Tolle (50:31)

Well, the staying as present as you can without being totally drawn into the mental stream of thought, so that you can always, on a daily basis, as much as possible, take little moments of stepping back from thought when you're on this, looking at the screen and look out of the window, take a few conscious breaths. And as you do that, conscious breath means your attention is on your breathing, which means you're not thinking simple, which means a little bit of space opens up within you where you're just conscious, so that you stay connected with who or what you are beyond the personality. The ancient Greek said know thyself was one of the most important dictums of ancient Greece. Greek philosophers know thyself. And at the deepest level that means know the essence of you, which is the presence, conscious presence. So as much as possible stay connected with that. And even when you are after a while, as I said earlier, presence power grows in you. And then there's always some presence. Even while you're talking, while talking now I can feel the presence behind my words. There's a presence. And that it works quite well when you're also when you're present. Whatever needs to be said in that moment can come out of that state of presence preparation we can probe it becomes less important for what you want to say and need to say what needs to be said, because there's vast intelligence in that presence. It's the unconditioned intelligence. All creativity arises from the presence. And creativity can be just a simple fact of saying the right thing at the right moment is already a creative act. Creativity can manifest in many ways, but any creative person, truly creative must have some access to that presence, often only in the area of their creativity. Often creative people sometimes are as crazy as others outside of the area of expertise, but within the area of expertise, the ability to be absolutely present, to have the alertness, a quiet, intense alertness of presence. And you can look at a situation or a problem without thinking, just applying the intelligence of presence. And there's a moment of stillness and then some creative answer comes in words or action, whatever it may be. So Staying connected to the presence, because that's where all that, where the power resides. It's not some egoic power. The power of life itself lives within you. So make sure you stay connected to the power of presence and that presence, then this is beautiful. That presence lives through you. The personality shrinks a bit or becomes transparent. And a greater power of presence can use your mind and your personality and express itself through you. And that is how sanity and true intelligence comes into this world. So you can bring that into this world. Ultimately, that's what the purpose of human life is, to represent that, to become a conduit for that. One can use spiritual terminology for it or neutral terminology. It doesn't matter if you want to use spiritual terminology, although some people may not like it when I say that in esoteric Christianity, that presence is the Christ in you. And St. Paul said in one of his letters in the New Testament, I can't remember the exact quote. I'm paraphrasing. I must diminish, and Christ in me must grow. So that is the. And Christ is the timeless. Jesus said before Abraham was I am. We're finishing on a religious note. He said before Abraham was I am. So it's an incredible statement. He didn't say I was already. Of course. Obviously Jesus wasn't alive when Abraham was alive, but he said before Abraham was I am. So I am is a timeless being. The Christ. Jesus realized the Christ with him. So that is in other religions at other terms. So that's why it all the purpose of human life is to connect with that and be that. Everybody does it in their own way. It manifests in many different ways. And you do it in yours. And I wish you well. I'm sure it'll be great. You've already doing great work. It'd be even greater.

Dave Rubin (56:21)

Well, my friend, I thank you so much. I know this is an easy interview to do because you offer so much and a perfect interview, as I said at the beginning, to be my last interview before I go off the grid. And I will warn you in advance that perhaps on August 31st I will show up somewhere in the Pacific Northwest and knock on your door so I can get a little extra presents for my return, because I will need it. I thank you. Enjoy the rest of your summer and I look forward to seeing you soon.

Eckhart Tolle (56:54)

Thank you, Dave. Thank you. Thank you.

T-Mobile Advertiser (57:08)

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