Is Australia About to Repeat the Biggest Mistake of Europe? | Tony Abbott

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rubin Report

Episode: Is Australia About to Repeat the Biggest Mistake of Europe? | Tony Abbott
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Tony Abbott, Former Prime Minister of Australia
Release Date: June 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rubin Report, host Dave Rubin engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Tony Abbott, the former Prime Minister of Australia. The discussion centers around Australia's current immigration policies, societal cohesion, and the broader implications these issues may have on Western democracies.

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Immigration Policies and National Security

Tony Abbott opens the dialogue by addressing recent Australian government actions concerning immigration. He expresses concern over the issuance of 3,000 tourist visas to individuals from Gaza, a region he describes as a "terrorist-controlled war zone."

Tony Abbott [00:28]:
“You will be importing trouble. You will be bringing into your country people who are unlikely ever to go back and who don't necessarily share your values.”
(00:28)

Abbott emphasizes the potential risks associated with such immigration policies, arguing that they could fracture societal cohesion and bring individuals who may not integrate seamlessly into Australian society.

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Cultural Strife and Societal Cohesion

The conversation shifts to the cultural strife observed in Australia, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. Abbott critiques the stringent lockdown measures, labeling them as "draconian," and highlights the resultant increase in authoritarianism and societal division.

Tony Abbott [03:26]:
“The government has been letting the country down for some time... became a nation of snitchers and dobbers”
(03:31)

Abbott draws parallels between Australia's experiences and those of other Western nations, suggesting that issues like economic stagnation and social fracturing are prevalent across the Anglosphere.

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Comparisons to Other Democracies

Rubin brings up the longevity of Abbott's governance, comparing it to Viktor Orban's administration in Hungary. They discuss the challenges long-term governments face, such as accumulating enemies and the public's desire for change.

Tony Abbott [05:00]:
“The difficulty with long term governments, even if they're very successful... there's a boredom factor.”
(05:00)

Abbott underscores the importance of political renewal and offering compelling reasons for voters to continue their support, rather than merely maintaining the status quo.

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Multiculturalism and National Identity

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the failures of multiculturalism. Abbott asserts that while multiculturalism has been a prevalent doctrine in countries like Australia and Britain for decades, it has not succeeded in fostering true societal integration.

Tony Abbott [09:46]:
“This whole doctrine of multiculturalism... has failed.”
(09:46)

He advocates for a model where immigration is controlled based on shared values rather than race or religion, and for a strong emphasis on civic patriotism to ensure new immigrants assimilate into the national culture.

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Solutions and Future Outlook

Abbott offers actionable solutions to address the challenges posed by uncontrolled immigration and cultural fragmentation:

1. Controlled Immigration:
   Implement immigration policies that prioritize applicants based on shared values rather than solely on race or religion.

2. Promoting Unity:
   Focus on fostering national unity over celebrating diversity to prevent society from fragmenting into tribalistic factions.

3. Civic Patriotism:
   Encourage immigrants to embrace and uphold the country's laws and values, ensuring their full integration into society.

Tony Abbott [13:48]:
“We need to recover the self-confidence to say yes to ourselves and politely say to people who are coming here, you're ours now.”
(13:48)

Abbott remains cautiously optimistic, believing that Australia's inherent appeal—stemming from its freedom, fairness, and prosperity—will continue to attract individuals who are willing to integrate and contribute positively to society.

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Humorous Interlude and Closing Remarks

In a lighter exchange, Rubin and Abbott joke about Australia's iconic culture, referencing figures like Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin as potential tools for cultural assimilation.

Dave Rubin [13:12]:
“Can't you just give them 24 hours of crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin and just lock them in a room?”
(13:12)

Abbott humorously concurs, highlighting the importance of cultural integration through shared experiences and humor.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Abbott commending Rubin's ability to convey serious messages with humor, encouraging him to continue fostering eye-opening and worldly conversations. Rubin, in turn, expresses enthusiasm for his upcoming tour in Australia, anticipating meaningful engagements inspired by the discussion.

Tony Abbott [13:48]:
“The thing that you're obviously very good at is being able to get a serious message across in a humorous way. And you just keep doing it.”
(13:48)

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Key Takeaways

• Immigration Control: Emphasizes the necessity of stringent immigration policies based on shared values to preserve national cohesion and security.

• Multiculturalism Critique: Argues that multiculturalism has failed to achieve true integration, advocating for a shift towards civic patriotism and assimilation.

• Political Longevity Challenges: Discusses the inherent difficulties long-term governments face, such as voter fatigue and the accumulation of political adversaries.

• Civic Unity Over Diversity: Advocates for prioritizing national unity to prevent societal fragmentation into tribalistic groups.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tony Abbott [00:28]:
  “You will be importing trouble. You will be bringing into your country people who are unlikely ever to go back and who don't necessarily share your values.”

• Tony Abbott [09:46]:
  “This whole doctrine of multiculturalism... has failed.”

• Tony Abbott [13:48]:
  “We need to recover the self-confidence to say yes to ourselves and politely say to people who are coming here, you're ours now.”

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This comprehensive discussion sheds light on the pressing issues of immigration, societal cohesion, and the future of multicultural policies in Western democracies, providing listeners with valuable insights into the challenges and potential solutions facing Australia and similar nations.

Transcript

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[Tony Abbott]

696-8911 of the things that the Australian government did recently was that it issued some 3,000 tourist visas, would you believe, to people from the terrorist controlled war zone in Gaza. Now I'm sure there are many decent people in Gaza and we recently saw some very brave GAZ people standing up against the Hamas terrorists with control the enclave. But nevertheless you've got to assure that if you just give 3,000 visas to people from Gaza, you will be importing trouble. You will be bringing into your country people who are unlikely ever to go back and who don't necessarily share your values. So this is where I think there's been a degree of negligence from a lot of Western governments in recent times. I accept that in a sense it's our virtues that have brought on this problem because we want to be decent, we want to be fair minded, we want to think the best of people. They're all good things. But in the end, if you do somehow fracture your society or make your society less cohesive, well, you're not doing yourselves any favourite.

[Dave Rubin]

All right. Former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. It's good to see you. We were just commiserating about long trips to get here, but 30 hours for you. You're awake. You're awake. What level am I getting you at right now?

[Tony Abbott]

Look, you're probably getting me at about nine out of ten.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, nine out of ten, that's not bad.

[Tony Abbott]

At least it's not as bad as it used to be. The first modern Australians came to Sydney Cove from Britain in 1788 and it took them nine months.

[Dave Rubin]

So, and, and something so 30 hours, not so bad.

[Tony Abbott]

And something like 2 or 3% of them died on the journey. So let's count our blessings and let's be grateful for modern advantages.

[Dave Rubin]

Fair enough. Well, as I just mentioned to you, I'm going to be in your country in October. I'm doing a tour there. I've been there before. I love Australia, I love the Australian spirit. And one of the strange things over the last few years, particularly to the backdrop of COVID is was watching what happened in Australia. I think particularly in Melbourne, but in several other cities as well. The draconian lockdowns and really what now seems to me. But again, I'm an outsider, so I want your take on it. What seems to be a lot of cultural strife in your country that I never saw before and much more. So take it away.

[Tony Abbott]

Well, Dave, look, we suffer from the general problems of the Anglosphere, the economic stagnation, the social fracturing and the strategic peril. I suspect our mood is better than in Britain, certainly, and perhaps also in the United States, probably because our weather is better.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I'm in Florida. Our mood and our law and order is pretty good. But you might be right about New York and Cali.

[Tony Abbott]

But look, I think that official Australia has been letting the country down for some time. And you talk about the pandemic. I was amazed at how we became a nation of snitchers and dobbers, out of and out of a kind of blatant authoritarianism at that time.

[Dave Rubin]

So what do you think the psyche of that was? Because people think of Australia, they think of Crocodile Dundee, you guys are free, you're out there grabbing lizards and crocodiles.

[Tony Abbott]

And look, it's a statement that's attributed to one of our great humorists, Clive James. Clive allegedly said that the secret to Australia is to understand Clive, not that we are descended from anti authoritarian convicts, but that we are descended from prison guards.

[Dave Rubin]

And certainly that got en masse. Wow.

[Tony Abbott]

During the pandemic.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. So you mentioned something to me right before we started that I thought was interesting that you guys basically had 25 years of good governance, obviously some of that under your administration. But in some sense that kind of leads to where I think Hungary might be at right now, where Viktor Orban has had many good years here, they've protected their border, the country seems to be doing well. But then when you roll into an election, when people are kind of used to things going okay, people, the natural reaction is people just want change for the sake of change.

[Tony Abbott]

Someone once said that in government, friends come and go, but enemies accumulate. And this is the difficulty with long term governments, even if they're very successful, as the Howard government was in Australia, the Orban government obviously has been here at Hungary, Invari. There are some people who for whatever reason, become discontented. I suppose in a democracy there's a boredom factor. Just like Mercedes change their model every few years, whether it needs changing or not. They think that they've got to freshen things up. So this is the issue and this is why at every election and this is more important for long term governments than for any offer. You've actually got to have a new offering. You've got to be able to say to people, if you don't vote for me this time, something that you really want might not happen. This challenge of renewal is incredibly important for political parties and for long term governments.

[Dave Rubin]

It's a tricky messaging thing, right? Because for Orban to basically go out there and say, hey, vote Orban again or it could be worse is sort of messaging wise. It's not that inspiring. But people outside of the country don't seem to realize how, or people inside the country, you forget how good you have it.

[Tony Abbott]

Well, that's true. But again, this is where good politics is a kind of a mixture of hope and fear. There's hope for a better tomorrow if you vote one way and there's fear for a much worse tomorrow if you don't vote the right way. So look, that's part of the skill of politics. And of course you've got to do it in an honest way. You've got to tell the truth about yourself. You shouldn't tell lies about the other side. In the end, as John Howard often used to say every day in politics, it's a test of character and sometimes we fail.

[Dave Rubin]

What do you make of how the issues that your country's dealing with, that America's dealing with, that Hungary's dealing with, they largely are the same issues now that partly because of the Internet, the way information travels, that we're all dealing with these things. Immigration, border. I mean, you guys, you're a huge island sort of in the middle of nowhere, and yet you have now all of this immigration stuff and cultural strife that we have in the States with a border with Mexico and that certainly they have here because of the European Union.

[Tony Abbott]

Look, in the end, the government has a duty to its existing citizens to preserve the character of the country. And an out of control immigration program, particularly an out of control immigration program where at least some of the people coming in don't necessarily naturally share your values, is a serious problem. One of the things that the Australian government did recently was that it issued some 3,000 tourist visas, would you believe, to people from the terrorist controlled war zone in Gaza. Now, I'm sure there are many decent people in Gaza and we recently saw some very brave Gaza people standing up against the Hamas terrorists that control the enclave. But nevertheless, you've got to assure that if you just give 3,000 visas to people from Gaza, you will be importing trouble, you will be bringing into your country, people who are unlikely ever to go back and who don't necessarily share your values. So this is where I think there's been a degree of negligence from a lot of Western governments in recent times. I accept that in a sense, it's our virtues that have brought on this problem because we want to be decent, we want to be fair minded, we want to think the best of people. They're all good things. But in the end, if you do somehow fracture your society or make your society less cohesive, well, you're not doing yourselves any favors.

[Dave Rubin]

So when you talk to your more liberal colleagues or people that might be okay with bringing these people over, or when you see. I mean, I think actually one of the worst things that I saw post 10-7-was right a few days after outside Sydney Opera House, which was one of my greatest honors to ever perform there. It was one of the best days of my professional life. And to see people calling for gas, the Jews and all of those things. When you talk to your more liberal colleagues, is it just that soft underbelly of tolerance that liberals have? I mean, do they really think they're doing the right thing?

[Tony Abbott]

This whole doctrine of multiculturalism which has been pervasive in countries like Australia and Britain for at least a generation, has failed. I'm all in favour of, if you like, having multi ethnic societies. America has been a multi ethnic society for the best part of 150 years. But you've got to have a strong civic patriotism that underlies that. There's got to be this official insistence that people quickly integrate and eventually assimilate. And regrettably, that's been forgotten for far too long and it needs to be restored as quickly as possible.

[Dave Rubin]

Are you hopeful that it'll be restored in your country? I mean, I know we all have separate problems.

[Tony Abbott]

Well, I doubt that it's going to be restored under the current government. The current government tends to repeat vapid slogans such as our unity is in.

[Dave Rubin]

Our diversity, diversity is our strength.

[Tony Abbott]

What does that mean? I mean, basically it just means that we are becoming a nation of tribes and that's no good for anyone.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Is your sense that the western countries by and large will sort of go their different ways? There will be certain ones like Hungary, that'll protect their borders and their culture and they'll go one way. There'll be other places like Britain that seemingly will be. They're in an intractable situation because they've let so many people in. Maybe Germany, United States has a different version of it that we're all just going to have to deal with this in our own way.

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[Tony Abbott]

Now, we're going to have to deal with it in our own way because all of our circumstances are slightly different. But I think there are some common elements and essentially we need to get immigration numbers under much better control. We need to have an immigration program that discriminates not on the basis of race or religion, but on the basis of values. And then for the people who are here, there needs to be a strong emphasis on unity. We need to stress our unity more and our diversity less. And what does in the end make me hopeful is because everyone who comes to a country like Australia and the United States is effectively choosing Australia, choosing America, choosing Britain. So our countries have a natural appeal. They're free, they're fair, they're still reasonably prosperous. And in the end, all the people who come, even those from very different backgrounds and cultures, are saying yes to us. We need to recover the self confidence to say yes to ourselves and politely say to people who are coming here, you're ours now. You're Australians, you're Britons, you're Americans. And that means you obey our laws, you embrace our values and you become fully part of us.

[Dave Rubin]

Can't you just give them 24 hours of crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin and just lock them in a room? And it's at the end if they don't get it, if they don't get it, you can't come in. Wouldn't that be.

[Tony Abbott]

That's probably not a bad ad hoc test.

[Dave Rubin]

It would be a test.

[Tony Abbott]

Do you laugh at all the right places?

[Dave Rubin]

Right? Exactly. That's not a knife. All right, last thing for you, because they gave me the signal. So I am coming to your country in October. I'm really looking forward to the tour. What should I be doing there? That maybe isn't the obvious stuff, besides saying hello to the koalas and the kangaroos and all that stuff?

[Tony Abbott]

Well, Dave, look, the thing that you're obviously very good at is being able to get a serious message across in a humorous way. And you just keep doing it.

[Dave Rubin]

That's the plan.

[Tony Abbott]

Good idea.

[Dave Rubin]

If you're looking for more eye opening and worldly conversations, make sure to dive into our international playlist. And if you want to watch full interviews on a wide variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. And to get notified of all future videos, be sure to subscribe and click the notification bell.