Loading summary
Transcript75 lines
- [00:00]
A
Previously on the Ruben. I don't think a lot of people have that lovely tattoo.
- [00:05]
B
Your brain has been fried.
- [00:07]
A
Omar has nothing. Christy, no mercy impeach. You might remember this local business leader from Springfield which went to the welfare office.
- [00:14]
B
If you carry the obesity gene, get.
- [00:16]
A
On the treadmill, work out a little bit. I'm Dave Rubin and joining me today is a former CIA covert operations officer, Mike Baker, as well as activist and attorney Elica Laban. Mike, Elica, welcome to the show.
- [00:55]
C
Thanks very much, sir.
- [00:56]
B
Thank you.
- [00:57]
A
I thought you guys would be a great duo for today's show. We're only going to cover the Iran situation today. Obviously, there's a lot happening in America domestically with everything going on with Minneapolis and Minnesota and ICE and all that. We still got the backdrop of the Venezuela stuff, which actually in some sense is connected to Iran. But I wanted to sort of do a little bit of what I think you guys, what your area of expertise is. Mike, you on the military side of this and the CAA operation side of what potentially could be coming. And Elica, you on the human side of what has gone on in Iran over the years. And you've had a couple of videos that have gone super viral lately. You've both been on the show before, but maybe, maybe I'll give you each just a moment to reintroduce yourselves for audience that don't know you. So Elica, maybe just quick 30, 45 seconds on who you are and how you got involved in all of this. If you could do that. I'll give you a minute.
- [01:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of trying to. No, I'm still trying to figure that out myself because it all seems just so accidental. So I was, I'm from Iran. My parents are from Iran. I was born and raised in London. I, I moved to the States to become an attorney. I live here now as, as an attorney, I sort of started speaking up for Iran when these protests and uprisings started to happen a few years ago. And then since then, I've just sort of become, you know, deeply involved in the conversation about the Middle east, especially because of how much distortion there is around the facts, around the context. And I just think that right now more than ever, people need to understand that the Middle east through a non Western lens, which is often how they're looking at it. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got here.
- [02:35]
A
Yeah. And you've had a couple videos, we played one of them earlier in the week that have gone mega viral, just explaining the disconnect between the people of Iran and. And the ruling party of Iran. Mike, I know my audience is well familiar with you, but if you want to do a quick Mike Baker bio, we can do that and then we'll dive in.
- [02:53]
C
Sure. I like long walks on the beach and quiet nights at home. Yeah, I know. 20, 20. 20 years.
- [03:02]
B
Do you like cats?
- [03:04]
C
You know what I've got? I've got young kids, and they always bring home strays. We have three cats currently. People are making notes now, but about 20 years with the CIA and operations side of things, all of it overseas. Got out, got a business CEO of a company called Portman Square Group, which is an intelligence and investigations and due diligence firm, and of course, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast, which look at me marketing all these things. Wow.
- [03:31]
A
Very professional. All right, well, let's dive in. I thought this video of Marco Rubio from January of last year during a Senate hearing. I thought this would be a nice way to kick us off. Take a look.
- [03:42]
D
Two points I want to make about Iran. And it's really important. When we talk about Iran, I'm talking about the radical Shia clerics and not the people. The people of Iran are people of an ancient civilization, an ancient culture with tremendous pride and advances, and I don't know who take great pride in their Persian heritage and identity. And I don't know of any nation on earth in which there is a bigger difference between the people and those who govern them than what exists in Iran. And that's a fact that needs to be made repeatedly. In no way is the clerics who run that country representative of the people of that country and of its history and of contributions it's made to humanity. And it's a point I wish we would continue to make.
- [04:20]
A
All right, Elica, I think you can see that there's a reason that I wanted to start with that clip. You were nodding along. Can you. Can you explain a little bit more? Can you dive in a little bit deeper on that? Because I think the average person who's watching the protests or seeing stuff on cnn, they just simply don't understand the ethnic makeup and obviously the history of the country.
- [04:41]
B
Yeah, I mean, look, as far as the percentage of people who are against the regime in Iran, it's at a steady 85%. And we know this because we've had consistent polling throughout, you know, the past several decades that reveal that the great majority of the people are against the regime. And I think the conversation is just such a. Almost an absurd conversation to have because on what planet, on what universe, could you ever assume that any people, much less the Iranian people, who are very pro, sort of these values of freedom would be happily subjugated by a terrorist or authoritarian regime? And this is where the conversation just goes into the territory of absurd propaganda. I mean, imagine saying that, you know, during Stalin's rule, the majority of Russians were pro Stalin. How can you be pro a dictatorship that is massacring you en masse, that is robbing all of your rights, all of your freedoms? And if you remember, I mean, you don't remember because we went alive, but during that time, the same media, the same New York Times reporters were going there and saying that, you know, Stalin was a great guy and there was no famine and none of this stuff was happening. And the Russians were huge fans of Stalin. And we've seen this cycle over and over again. It is just to be basically assumed that if there is a terrorist organization that is ruling a nation, a dictatorship, an authoritarian regime that robs you of your rights and freedoms, the people of Iran, the people of any such nation are against them. And I think even the assumption. We've seen a lot of people saying this online now on, going on Piers Morgan and all of these shows, saying most Iranian people are pro regime. You have to have the most bigoted assumption of any people to believe that. That they are so savage, that they are such barbarians, that they enjoy being murdered for some type of upholding some type of ideological extremism. That is the underlying assumption. So that's all to say that I could sit here going back and forth endlessly about polls, about evidence, about how many people are out in the streets, but to just. It's such an obvious thing to believe that it doesn't even bear explaining.
- [06:52]
A
Right? I mean, if. If nothing else, the. The complete hypocrisy of the mainstream left has been so exposed during all of this, where they're suddenly rooting for a fanatical religious group of people who are oppressing women and minorities and et cetera, et cetera.
- [07:07]
B
Mike, can you suddenly.
- [07:09]
A
Not. I shouldn't say suddenly very outwardly now, particularly with social media, but yes, basically for four decades at least. Mike, can you talk a little bit about the disconnect? I think it's hard for people in a Western lens to understand how there can be such a disconnect between the government and the people. Like, how can they rule such a large landmass? With so many people who have such a rich history of Western values, how is it even possible? I think People just can't imagine that.
- [07:38]
C
Well, they've got a very. In a way that don't misconstrue the way I use this word. But they've got a very sophisticated and entrenched security apparatus, and they've developed that over decades. Look, I've got an old buddy of mine, now deceased, was one of the hostages back when this regime came to power. And they beat the hell out of him repeatedly during that thing. But he would, if he was alive still, he would be a very sort of sad individual. Because of the cycle of what we're watching just right now, the protests feel different, or they had felt different. You know, they were. They were building, they were spreading. It crossed over a variety of sectors and demographics, population. And so it was feeling different. To people who have watched this ever since 79, when protests have come out and then. Then they've fizzled or they've been crushed by the regime, this one felt different. But I got to tell you, I'm a very cynical person, because right now I'm feeling like this may just be part of that cycle. And if the, if the White House. I know I'm going a little off topic here from the question.
- [08:58]
A
No, no, no. We were going to get there.
- [09:00]
C
So it's okay if the White House, when they say help, is on the way to those protesters, to the dead and to the people who are risking their lives when you tell them that after years of relatively meaningless support from the international community in the US it means something and it gave them courage and strength, I believe, anyway, over the past week, to continue. So if that help at the end of the day is nothing more than. Well, we put diplomatic pressure on them. We told them to stop the killings. They told us they pretty much stopped the killings, and they're not going to do any public execution. So, yeah, there we are. Well, we're back to business as usual, then. And that sad cycle just keeps going.
- [09:46]
A
So we will do more on the. On the military version of this. I should note we're taping this on Thursday afternoon, and this will go live at 11am on Friday. So anything can happen, basically, in the next 20 or so hours. So some of the military moves specifically may change. But, Elica, I want to show you this collage of pictures, which I'm sure you've seen. I mean, it's really just so illustrative of what's going on there. These are young Iranian women who are lighting cigarettes with Khomeini's image. I mean, this literally could get them killed. Or thrown in jail or God knows what else. Can you talk a little bit about what it has been like for women living under this oppression?
- [10:28]
B
Well, so you have to realize that the young people in Iran, especially young women, they are the same as young women everywhere. They have access to tick tock. They have access to when they can get through. And these are people who are seeing the standards and wave. Yeah, these are people who have been seeing the standards and ways of life of liberal democracies across the world. They see young American girls dancing on TikTok. They want to dance on TikTok. They see young kids in the west, you know, making music, living their lives, having fun, and they're not able to even do that. They can't do any of those things in public. They can't sing in public, they can't dance in public. They can't make TikTok videos, they can't show themselves without their hair. They're living in, in. It's not just that they're living in extreme repression. They don't even have the ability to normalize their circumstances because they have access to the outside world. Now that. That is living completely different. Right. This isn't history where you could be so isolated and so insulated from the outside world that you could effectively normalize your conditions and believe that you were fine, that those days are over. The Iranian women are, have been long seeing the way that women live freely out in the world. And that is what has made them so indignant. It is what, what has made them so angry. And it's what is propelling them to take to the streets because they just want a normal life. You know, this isn't just about you. You know, sure, there's the political prisoners, there's the executions. There's the fact that this Iran right now has the highest executions per capita, more than North Korea, China. Obviously we don't really know those numbers. But that aside, just the basic daily life is what young Iranian women are looking for. They're looking to be able to go out and show their hair without fear. They're looking to be able to express themselves the way the rest of young women in the world express themselves without fear.
- [12:17]
A
Gold has officially gone mainstream. You're seeing it everywhere. And prices just keep climbing every day. More and more Americans are discovering the power of gold. But how do you actually take advantage of it? How do you invest in a way that's safe, simple, and built for the long run? That's where noble gold investments comes in. Their specialists are trained to help advisors like you go from confused to confident, from wondering what's next to knowing exactly what to do. Whether you're looking to roll over an old 401k into a gold IRA or you want physical coins and bars delivered right to your home, Noble Gold makes the process simple, secure and stress free. You'll get step by step guidance, transparent pricing and US based service from a trusted team that's handled over 2.5 billion in precious metal transactions with Noble Gold Investments. Protecting and growing your wealth isn't just their job, it's their commitment. Visit Dave Rubin Gold.com today to claim your free wealth protection kit. That's Dave Rubin Gold.com Noble Gold helping you build a stronger future. So, Mike, to that point, how much of this do you view as sort of the revolution, as an inevitability of technology in some sense? So when they had the last real uprising, which was when Obama was president, even though we had Internet and we had social media, it, it wasn't as ubiquitous everywhere, where now it's nonstop 24 hours a day, even though the Internet has been cut and phone lines have been cut there and even they're going after Starlink now and all sorts of stuff. But the point that Alec is making, the Iranians know what life outside of the country looks like in a tremendous way now. So in some sense, you can't stop a revolution in that way. I mean, you can kill a lot of people, but you may not be able to stop it.
- [13:55]
C
Yeah, the regime can certainly try to kill their way out of it and they haven't shown any reluctance in the past to go that route with violence and arrests. But there's no doubt that technology has made it more difficult for locking down a population.
- [14:11]
A
Right.
- [14:11]
C
And saying you can't know what life is like. You go back to the Cold War, to the old Soviet Union. Right. And the difficulties for Russian citizens as an example, to understand what the west looked like. Right. They were incredibly hungry for information about what was going on out there. And when they found out about it, it was a revelation. But now, right now you can tweet.
- [14:35]
A
Through the Iron Curtain.
- [14:37]
C
Exactly. And so there's only so much they can do. Yeah. And those, and those images, I just wrote that down. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm.
- [14:44]
A
Going to use that.
- [14:46]
B
No, I'm taking it. Okay, okay.
- [14:48]
C
Now that's going to be okay. Yeah. So the way that information flows nowadays. Yeah, it, absolutely, you know, it shows when they, when they cut communications, when they do an Internet blackout, it is Obvious, Obviously, it's, it's an effort to try to prevent images to get out. It's an obvious effort to try to prevent the protesters from communicating with each other. But they've shown an amazing resilience, as have other populations, in learning workarounds. And certainly you just mentioned Starlink. Starlink has been very important and is playing a role right now.
- [15:24]
A
So I want to throw to a video. You, you sort of referenced this a moment ago, Mike, but Trump is now saying the killing has stopped, which is perhaps offering a pause in whatever our military maneuvers might be.
- [15:34]
B
Take a look on Iran. You said that the killing has stopped. Who told you that the killings have stopped? There in the.
- [15:40]
E
We have been, we have been informed by very important sources on the other side, and they've said the killing has stopped and the executions won't take place. There were supposed to be a lot of executions today and that the executions won't take place. And we're going to find out. I mean, I'll find out after this. You'll find out, but we've been told on good authority, and I hope that she.
- [16:01]
A
True.
- [16:02]
E
Who knows, right? Who knows?
- [16:04]
A
Alec, my general take on Trump is that he's done so many good things that he offers a little bit of stuff out there and then he does other things. Right. So I don't think this means we are not going to do anything. But when you heard that, okay, so some people over there told us the killings have stopped. What, what was your reaction?
- [16:24]
B
Well, first of all, the goalpost has been moved. Okay. Because the first statement was, if the killing begins, we intervene. Now the goalpost has been moved. Well, since the killing has stopped, we won't intervene. That wasn't the, that wasn't the initial promise that drew people into the streets. So I think what concerns me is that, you know, a lot of people have been saying to me lately this is, it's happening. They're going in. Iran's going to be free. And I have been very, very hesitant to, to become excited about this, not because I'm a pessimist, but because of pattern recognition. I've spent the past two years carefully paying attention to detail on how the US And Israel is reacting in Iran. And so far, they've been taking conservative measures. If they were going to give us the Maduro package, we would have gotten the Maduro package on October 8th. Why would we suddenly wake up tomorrow and get the Maduro package? We're not getting the Maduro package. Everything that they've done thus far has been extraordinarily conservative in response to the massacres that these terrorists have been committing across the Middle East. And so there's a reason why, in my eyes, there's a reason why Trump keeps making these statements, we're going to do something. We might do something. Well, we'll change. The goalpost is because there's some data there, there's some data in the conservative measures that they've taken that leads a reasonable observer to say that it doesn't seem that anything that happens going forward is going to be beyond conservative. I'm not saying that they aren't going to do anything. What I believe is that Trump said that to try and as a sort of, you know, bluff, thinking that the regime wouldn't respond, wouldn't respond, and then if it did respond, knew that he would cover his ass somehow by doing something. And that is what I expect. I expect that he will do something. I expect that Israel will do something. But will they initiate a regime change? No. And I have a lot of opinions about why, but I'll just stop there for now.
- [18:17]
A
Well, maybe we can get to a sec. But, Mike, can you talk about, like, what do you think the legitimate military options are? If the idea is, okay, we want to help the people of Iran rise up, but we know that first. I mean, the country's absolutely huge also, so it's not like you're just going in and snagging Maduro in the middle of the night. Right. And we don't even necessarily know where Khomeini is and the mullahs and blah, blah, blah. But, but what would it. Look, what would be sensible that you could hear that Trump could put out there, that you'd be like, all right, I think maybe this could work?
- [18:44]
C
Yeah. Look, I mean, when they, when they talk about, you know, doing something, this, this sort of help concept, it's. It's on its way. You know, you have to put it in different buckets. Right. So one of the things they could do in today's world is. Is cyber attacks. Right. Why would they do that? Well, they would take down the mechanisms, sort of the machinery of communications, blackouts. Right. So you would then try to open up the country to the outside world. That's one concept. You know, obviously, another is economic sanctions. I don't believe that that inspires the people on the streets. So if you're talking about kinetic action, military action, then they've already got their target packages. Right. This is. This is something that's been sitting on the shelf for a while now. It's not as if the, the most recent NSC meeting was so we could come up with, well, okay, what targets do we want to hit? They know that. And you're talking about possibly, you know, military bases in and around Tehran that would be housing units that are responsible for getting out of the streets. You've got a combination of law enforcement, police, and paramilitary or militias out there. But you hit those military units because they put the army out and which showed you how serious these protests were from the regime's point of view. They actually, you know, they, they unleashed the army to deal with protests. So you could go after those units that are responsible. You could take out, you know, some individual senior leadership. Right. The intel is. Is pretty good. And a lot of them were taken out during the 12 day war. So I think that's kind of where they would be focused, is to try to say, this is not about regime change, it's punishment for your behavior. But the idea underlying all that is to provide some meaningful support that would allow the people to stay in the fight. Right? To give them the hope and courage and strength to stay in the fight. That's what you would be looking to do. Because, again, regime change, you know, always brings with it a lot of pushback and sort of a reputation there. But I think that's kind of where we'd be with, I think, personally, President Trump is. Look, there may. He's got a history of doing this with head fakes, Right? So as to your point, Dave, you know, he'll say something, and then there's something else on the way that could be the case. Personally, I hope it is, because again, going back to that comment, I would hate to see this. And in the same sort of cycle that we've seen over the years, right.
- [21:15]
A
In this specific instance, it seems like his rhetoric and the messaging he's put out has gone so far that if we don't do anything, it seems worse than the Obama red line. I'm not saying I know what to do or anything else, but it seems like knowing Trump, I mean, he does follow, unlike Obama, he follows through. So his red line actually is in marker, where maybe Obama's was in pencil. But I'm curious. Let me ask you both the same question. What would you say to people to just like, the average American who's just like, you know what? I see the stuff and it's terrible, and I don't want people to die or anything else, but it's another part of the world, and I just don't care anymore what would your response mean to that, Elika?
- [21:54]
B
Well, I just want to kind of reiterate this point because this is the foundation of it, is that people don't think that the US or anyone should ever really get involved in, in regime change. And then you can actually make a pattern out of this. What all of these presidents have in common, starting with Jimmy Carter, then Obama, and now, we don't know about Trump, maybe, But what they have in common is that they were almost all arrested by ideology, this idea that Western imperialism is the greatest evil. And they said it. They didn't, they didn't, you know, they weren't shy about admitting it. When Carter helped to bring Khomeini to Iran, there was this idea that the Shah was a Western puppet and to do the right thing was to eject anything to do with Westernism and bring this indigenous revolution to Iran. Right? And then you had Obama, who in 2009 during the Green Movement, had an opportunity to intervene. And he said out of his own words, when he admitted that he made a mistake, he said, people said to me that I would be a Western tool and all of those things, right? Same rhetoric, same ideological arrest. I can't move forward because of this anti Western rhetoric. And now we're living in the exact same. We are in a historic Groundhog Day Donald Trump. The thing that's going to hold him back is that he doesn't want to be the one who gets the reputation for regime change in Iran. Why? Because the concept of Western intervention has been made the greatest evil, even against the greatest evil. Now it has gotten to the point where the crime is not the crime, the help is the crime? How have we become so distorted, mentally distorted, that criminals committing mass murderer is no crime, but the intervention from the outside world is the real danger? And so what you can see through all of this is. Go on.
- [23:36]
A
No, sorry, go ahead, finish up, please.
- [23:39]
B
No, just how, how much humanity has been forsaken for ideology. And it isn't just any ideology, let's be honest. It is the ideology of the elite, of the intelligentsia. It is this romantic intelligentsia concept that people should free themselves. Well, how, how do you free yourself? It's like telling a nation, hey, you know, we'd really love to stop this atomic bomb dropping from you on you, but we, we really think that you should free yourselves from the atomic bomb. You know, it's like telling somebody who's been tied up by a murderer calling 91 1, hey, you know, we'd love to send help, but we just, we really think you should free yourselves, right? It's this concept of this sort of noble martyrdom which is, which is really just the righteous fantasies of the Western intelligentsia. And that is what rules, rules everything. And that is what's so scary about this entire situation is that we are all, we all have to surrender to these righteous fantasies of the intelligentsia.
- [24:36]
A
What if your only resolution this year was to get better sleep? Just imagine how much more energy you'd have, how much easier it would be to handle stress and how much simpler everything else would feel. That's why a smart way to start 2026 is with CBD from CB Distillery. Over 90% of CBD customers, they sleep better with CBD. And when sleep improves, everything else tends to as well. Better focus, better move and better overall days. CB Distillery doesn't just focus on sleep either. They offer products for stress relief, mood support and post workout recovery. You can shop by benefit, so it's easy to find exactly what you're looking for. Everything from CB Distillery is premium quality, third party tested and made with no artificial dyes or fillers. They've earned the trust of over 2 million happy customers. And every purchase comes with a 100% money back guarantee. And if you're ready to start the year off right, head to cbdistillery.com and use code Reuben to save 25% off. That's cbdistillery.com, promo code Reuben. Mike. So to that point, I mean, is one of the bigger problems with the Western intelligentsia is that if we don't do anything, meaning America, then nobody does anything. We all know that France isn't getting involved, the UK is not getting involved, the Dutch aren't coming to save anybody. Even the other countries in the Middle east are not going to do anything. So there's a weird disconnect where there's. The Western intelligentsia can say whatever the hell they want, but everyone knows it's Trump or bust.
- [25:54]
C
Yeah, that's. And that's been the case whether it's been Trump or not over the years is, you know, people do turn to the us they complain about it, but they do expect the US to lead in some fashion when you get a situation like this or the Balkan war, whatever it may be. So again, I think, look, Venezuela, whether we want to call it regime change or not, that's what it is, right? And so, you know, maybe the dam's broken already and you know, the mindset has shifted in the White House because I think they do look at what happened in Venezuela as sort of proof of concept in a way, for certain actions. And so I think that maybe we will see something different. Look, operationally you could do this. Now, whether that spurs the people further to do this, you know, because again, part of this, the, the difficulty of having a population rise up against such an established security apparatus, such a, a hardened force as even the Revolutionary Guard Corps, right, Not to mention the militias and other elements is, is massive. There's just, there's so much to it. But if they don't get some meaningful support in some fashion from the international community, it can't happen because the Iranian regime has no upside in giving up power.
- [27:25]
A
Right. So now I want to get to some of the mixed messages.
- [27:26]
B
And they're unarmed.
- [27:28]
C
And they're unarmed. Yeah, absolutely.
- [27:31]
B
The unarmed cannot win against the armed.
- [27:34]
A
So let's get to some of the mixed messaging here. First, this truth from Trump on this was a Fox News headline. Iranian protester will no longer be sentenced to death after President Trump's warnings. Likewise others. And Trump wrote, this is good news, hopefully it'll continue. But then of course, we see videos like this. It's a short video of a Tehran medical center filled with body bags. Take a look. How much of the confusion here is that when that the phrase regime change, Mike, you kind of just hit on this. That the phrase regime change now has all these attachments to it where I think, I don't think people fear the average American. If you said to them, hey, we're gonna have a couple day war where we're gonna drop a hell of a lot of bombs to take out the ayatollah and the mullahs and free the people to whatever extent that can work. I think most Americans are okay with that. What they don't want is an occupation. They don't want boots on the ground like we did with Iraq, where then it just ends up as a, you know, in essence, a failed state. So maybe this is a. What do you think, Mike? Maybe there's like a messaging thing here that should be changed. Cuz when you look at the body bags, I mean, the lefties that are silent about it were going crazy about it elsewhere in the Middle east not too long ago. So there's a messaging issue, I think that still is a little lost here.
- [28:51]
C
Yeah, I think just like with the earlier discussion, sort of the cultural issues, the social issues within Iran, I think there needs to be better messaging about why it's important and to what degree. Look, you'll never get stability or long term or midterm peace in the Middle east and all the ripple effects that spread out across the globe as long as the Iranian regime stays in place. It's just that. It's that simple. Right. They are the number one cause of chaos in the region. Right. And beyond. So I think you, you have to explain what they're about and why this benefits not just the Iranian people, but the situation throughout the Middle East. Right. And I don't know if doing that, you know, kind of brings those people who are on the edge or kind of teetering on the fence saying, I don't know, maybe this gets them on board with this idea. Right. Because I know, I know a lot of isolationists, libertarians, whatever. And of course they don't want anything. Right. They don't. They live in a world where you just shouldn't do anything. Right. Because it's just all wrong. And, and we're just people. Anytime we do property rights. You can't. Yeah, you can't.
- [30:03]
B
Every man is an island.
- [30:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But the truth is, we all know this. I, I think that the world's been shrinking for some time, and we're all interconnected in ways that we don't even understand. And so what happens in the Middle east, if you had some ability for the Iranian people to create something more and become a real part of the international community, I guarantee you it would be a seismic shift for the better in the region and beyond.
- [30:34]
B
Yeah.
- [30:34]
A
Well, that's why, again, I'm not saying I know exactly what we're supposed to do, but their proxies are all destroyed now, too. Right? Like, Hamas is basically. They're not completely gone, but, like, Hezbollah's largely gone. The Houthis are being quiet. Like there is a moment here just across the region. Alika, go ahead.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah. I mean, can you just imagine if we had a policy of isolationism during the Cold War? You know, well, let's just let communism spread everywhere, and it's just not our business. We'll just stay here with our little liberal democracy. Your liberal democracy would be gone. So that, that's just, it's just a flawed ideology. But what I was going to say about this concept of regime change, I think there also needs to be a lot of education about it because people often, you know, people online, they just use these buzzwords. They say, oh, we don't want another Iraq, we don't want another Afghanistan. It's like these are, these are apples and oranges, first of all, because they are so against Western intervention. They look at Iraq from The most negative lens, obviously, the aftermath was a disaster, but it would have been far worse under Saddam Hussein. He was committing chemical genocide. It was. He was expat. It just. It obviously was bad, but it's better than the worst. But because they hold everything to an anti American standard, they always see it through a negative lens. And then Afghanistan is a completely different situation. You've already empowered the Taliban through Operation Cyclone. You put them in power, you entrenched them, and then you had a war to try and take them out. Completely different situation. Although they did also help bring the mullahs to. To Iran. But what people need to understand about Iran, which is unique about Iran in the Middle east, is that in general, under the caliphate, when the Middle east was under the caliphate, it unfortunately missed the enlightenment era. So all of us who were born and raised in the west, we were raised with these principles of rationality. Right. We were raised with these principles of enlightenment, and that didn't reach the Middle East. And that's why there are masses in the Middle east who would sooner an Islamist regime than this concept of Western liberal democracies, which seems so foreign to them. But for the Iranian people, not only did the last Shah of Iran send a lot of students out into the world, including my dad, to the. To Oxford in the UK to be educated, to bring these Western ideals into Iran, which it successfully did and even before the last shah, but we have to remember that Iran is from a nation. It's our ancestors, Cyrus the Great. Right. These are people who penned the first Cyrus Cylinder, the first human rights bill in all of history. So our Persian values mirror Western values very closely. So when you say we don't want to have a regime change because, you know, who knows if more ayatollahs are going to come to power. We think that the Iranian people are just these radical Islamists. You couldn't be more wrong about the Iranian people and our values. And that is the thing that they don't understand, where they're against the concept of regime change.
- [33:25]
A
Yeah. And that's why I wanted to start with that Rubio clip, because that's exactly what he was laying out. Mike, I don't want to get too far too deep into this, but do you think it's possible that had the US not cut and run from Obama, really from Iraq when we did, that people would view regime change differently in that for as crazy as the Iraq war was, they were having free elections. I mean, most people remember that around 2006, 2007, it did seem like it was stabilizing. And then Obama just happened to. He kept promising more than Hillary, if people remember that primary, I will get us out the second I'm in. She was like, oh, well, we should just take our time and we don't wanna break it again and all that. But do you think maybe we'd all look at all of this differently had we stayed there and helped that stabilize?
- [34:10]
C
Well, sure. I think if you had. You're absolutely right. I think if you'd had a successful end result in terms of how I suppose the US Population would define success. But there were a series of mistakes, starting with ousting the entire Iraqi military structure and creating a vacuum that I was out there at the time. And then you could see this heading south very quickly, and the chaos arrived before you could even blink. And then it kind of went downhill, obviously, from there. So I think if that transition had been handled properly, and not to veer off topic, but I think that's why you're seeing what we're seeing in Venezuela, in part because they're realizing that you can't just say, maduro's gone. Everybody leave. We're going to put in Machado. Everything's going to be great. You've got a military in place. You've reshuffled the deck chairs with some of the regime cronies. You've got a security apparatus. You got to figure out how to make that transition happen so that the opposition that when they do come in and you're trying to move towards a more free and fair society for those people, that the military's on board with it in some fashion. So I think you're right. People have fatigue in this country for all the good reasons, all the right reasons. 20 years in Afghanistan, the Iraq, you know, debacle. And so people are tired of it. But you're absolutely correct. Elka is right. It's apples and oranges. You can't make comparisons here with those incidents. But that's human nature. And most people are so busy with their daily lives that they're not going to sit and ponder this very, very long. They're going to go whatever the tells.
- [35:48]
A
Them, do you owe back taxes or haven't even filed in years? Now's the time to resolve your tax issues. With the national debate around abolishing the income tax system, the IRS is pushing back by becoming more aggressive than ever. They're sending more collection notices, filing more tax liens, and collecting billions more than in recent years. If you owe or you haven't filed, it's not a matter of if the IRS will act, its when. Right now, Tax Network USA is offering a completely free IRS research and discovery call to show you exactly where you stand. Their programs and strategies can save you thousands or even eliminate your debt entirely if you qualify. Don't make the mistake of trying to handle the IRS on your own. Representing yourself or calling them directly can waive your rights and cost you significantly more. The IRS is not on your side, but Tax Network USA is. Get the protection you need and start resolving your tax matters once and for all. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Dave for your free discovery call. Don't let the IRS be the first to act. We already addressed this a little bit, sort of the betrayal of the left in America and the human rights activists. But this tweet by Ayel Yakobi I thought summed it up perfectly. He wrote, breaking live look at Columbia University after they learned that over 2,000 unarmed Iranian civilians have been massacred by the Islamic Republic. I mean, that's kind of it, right, Elika? Like that's it right there. These kids, they don't know what they're protesting for. And then when it comes comes to something that they probably should be protesting for. Crickets.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah. I mean, look, these are the kids that are graduating out of these elite institutions that are heavily left wing, I think of our academic institutions, left wing. And I what I describe this process as is re education, which is a Maoist term, right. Mao's re education system was about training the Chinese to see the west as the greatest enemy, everything that's the greatest good. And so naturally they graduate out of this re education and they say, oh, Islamist terrorists, enemy of the west, that must be the good. The terrorists being attacked, they pour into the streets, you know, say they don't even pretend to be about humanity. They say, Hamas, Hamas, we love you. We support your rockets too. Right? They are openly admitting that they stand with the Islamists because the Islamists are against and Iran, where the Iranian people against these Islamists? Well, the Islamists are the less ally. They are the ally in the war against the West. Why would the pour into the streets, into the Gambia encampments to protest their ally, are secretly hoping that their ally wins and proves the west if you're evil and that the Islamists are the good force in the world just fighting the Western oppression.
- [38:32]
C
I guarantee you though, if, if the US does take kinetic action and if Israel steps in to provide assistance, you'll see those students Back out there protesting.
- [38:43]
A
They'll be there, right? Exactly. I thought it would be nice to hear this because there are so many incredible videos of what Iran used to be like in the 70s and before that and just the advancements and the just wonderful culture that was there until 1979. I thought this would be a nice way to wrap up, take a look, Mike. I want to give Elica the last word on that. But when you see something like that and knowing that we can maybe do something is, is that just the biggest selling point? That maybe we could just help these people again? That those girls, if they're still alive, are probably wrapped up in what Bill Maher calls Beekee costumes right now?
- [39:42]
C
Yeah, yeah. No, I like, I think it wouldn't take much, I think.
- [39:46]
B
Well, just so.
- [39:46]
C
I'm sorry, go ahead.
- [39:48]
B
No, I was gonna say, just so you know, that clip would just be cast off as Zionist propaganda anyway. So you, you know, you're gonna have a hard time getting through to these people. I don't think that we're going to move the hearts of the anti Westerners and the anti Zionists. As, as, as Lizzie Savetsky once said, we can't change their hearts and their minds because they don't have hearts and hearts and they don't have minds. But I do think that, I do think that, you know, it's in for people who are not sure, people who are on the fence, who, people who have not been consumed by ideology. I do think that, you know, explaining to them the Iran that once was, the long history of Iran that once was explaining them to the history, the history of, you know, the 1400 year old Islamic invasion and the influence that has, you know, really suppressed the native culture of Iran. If they see this more from sort of like an anti colonial perspective, you know, you have to use their words, you have to use their language, that this, this Islamist is force is like a colonial force that they're trying to free themselves from and show them what their native culture is, that the Persian culture and their values that are much more closely mirror to the, the West. I do think that they, they'll have no choice but to get on board because otherwise what you're saying is essentially that you want individual rights for yourself but not for the people of Iran, even though those people are asking for it. And so I think that puts them in a bind where they have no choice but to get on board.
- [41:20]
A
Right. If, if, you know, basically two and a half years post October 7th hasn't exposed the hypocrisy this thing has just ripped it wide open. Mike, you get the last word?
- [41:30]
C
Yeah. Look, I don't know what's going to happen in the coming days, and I think we'll understand that here soon, but it wouldn't take much. It wouldn't take much, and it would just to see some meaningful support, help from the international community, the US Perhaps others, for the protests, so that perhaps this time, after all these years and all these past efforts by the people coming out on the streets, that we get a different result.
- [42:03]
A
Right.
- [42:04]
C
And I go back to what I said earlier, which is that for the people of Iran, it would mean more opportunity, a better life, freedom, theoretically. Everybody should be behind that concept. Right. And for the rest of the world, it would mean a more stable region and a better opportunity for, really, the entire globe. So it's. That's, that's all I, I can say. I just. Again, what. Whether that help comes is what I'll be watching over the course of the.
- [42:32]
A
Next 48 hours, from your mouth to Trump's ears. All right, well, you guys are welcome back anytime. I appreciate your time. Have a good weekend. And, guys, it's Friday, so no postgame show. We'll see you on Monday.