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Listen to ‘The View’ Crowd Gasp as Whoopi Admits She Agrees w/ Conservatives on This

The Rubin Report

Fri Sep 19 2025

Dave Rubin of “The Rubin Report” talks to Andy Ngo and Daily Wire’s Isabel Brown about the massive fallout from the murder of Charlie Kirk; “The View’s” Whoopi Goldberg shocking her audience with a controversial take on free speech that...

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rubin Report

Episode: Listen to ‘The View’ Crowd Gasp as Whoopi Admits She Agrees w/ Conservatives on This
Host: Dave Rubin
Guests: Isabel Brown (The Daily Wire), Andy Ngo (Senior Editor, Post Millennial)
Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This emotionally charged episode centers on the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA. Dave Rubin is joined by Isabel Brown and Andy Ngo—two people closely intertwined with Kirk’s legacy—to process grief, discuss the broader political and cultural impact, and debate the path forward for the American conservative movement amid growing tensions, political violence, and shifting attitudes toward free speech and cancel culture. The episode is threaded with reflections on Kirk’s legacy, the dangers of normalization of leftist violence, and reactions to recent political moves, including Antifa’s terror designation and media hypocrisy regarding cancel culture and free expression.

Main Discussion Themes

Processing the Loss of Charlie Kirk

[01:06 – 04:05]

Isabel Brown shares personal memories of Charlie Kirk, highlighting his influence on her career and the conservative movement’s next generation.
Quote:

“Charlie Kirk represented something so much bigger than himself. He set the moral tone for the next generation of what we believed in, what our values were, what we got up to fight for every day.” – Isabel Brown [02:19]
Grieving is difficult for those close to Kirk, especially as Turn Point USA was not just his job, but part of so many people’s personal and professional missions.

Charlie Kirk’s Impact and Legacy

[04:05 – 08:16]

Andy Ngo recounts how Kirk welcomed him into TPUSA after being attacked by Antifa in 2019, emphasizing Kirk’s inclusiveness and readiness to stand by those targeted for their views.
Charlie’s global influence is mentioned, with memorials even as far as London.
The normalization of political violence against conservatives is called out as severely underreported and dangerous.

Leadership Transition at Turning Point USA

[09:52 – 13:38]

Erica Kirk, Charlie’s widow, is unanimously elected CEO of TPUSA per Charlie’s wishes.
The group discusses Erica’s resolve, her viral speech to the nation, and the symbolic continuation of Charlie’s fight.
Quote:

“The cries of this widow will echo around the world like a battle cry. It gave me chills to hear her say that.” – Isabel Brown [12:46]

Glenn Beck’s Tribute to Charlie Kirk

[14:07 – 16:01]

Glenn Beck remembers Kirk as more than a broadcaster, likening him equally to a pastor, rabbi, and organizer—“He surpassed Rush Limbaugh by miles.”
Quote:

“He was a broadcaster and a narrowcaster. Charlie was a pastor and a priest…He surpassed Rush Limbaugh by miles.” – Glenn Beck [15:03]

Reaction to Political Violence and Antifa

[16:36 – 19:02]

Ngo describes how Antifa not only celebrated Kirk’s assassination but is now concerned by the right’s unity and pushback—including firings and cancellations for those celebrating the murder.
He references Antifa’s internal discussions, which now plot divisions in the right as a response.
Quote:

“Previously inactive conservatives are now becoming politically conscious. They are saying we need to come up with ways to sabotage what’s happening because this is catastrophic for us.” – Andy Ngo [16:36]

Turning Point USA’s Exponential Growth

[20:18 – 21:19]

Benny Johnson’s stats: 54,000+ new chapter requests, more than doubling Kirk’s own life goal, signifying the ‘unstoppable’ nature of the movement post-assassination.
Andrew Colvet (executive producer) notes the peaceful, faith-driven unity and revival, not violence.
Quote:

“They’re not rioting in the streets, they’re praying and singing worship songs and filling up church pews. That’s beautiful.” – Andrew Colvet [20:55]

A Spiritual Awakening Among the Youth

[21:33 – 24:15]

Isabel Brown highlights how the response to Kirk’s death has shifted from purely political to spiritual: thousands are turning to prayer, church attendance, and buying Bibles in his honor.
Quote:

“His greatest legacy and the greatest impact he would make on an entire generation was not to reelect Donald Trump… but to let people seek the source of liberty, which is God.” – Isabel Brown [23:32]

Key Political and Global Developments

Mass Demonstration in London

[26:50 – 28:51]

Andy Ngo reports 2-3 million marching in London demanding an end to mass migration, said to outnumber past pro-Palestinian rallies.
Recognizes the growing disconnect between government/media and popular sentiment.
Quote:

“It was the largest demonstration that’s happened in London since I’ve been here for five years… The status quo is going to change one way or another.” – Andy Ngo [26:50]

Trump Designates Antifa as a Terrorist Organization

[28:51 – 35:32]

Rubin and guests discuss Trump’s declaration and the urgency for legal accountability, including possible RICO cases and deep investigations into funding links (potentially implicating politicians).
Isabel Brown recounts decades of unchecked Antifa violence, particularly against conservative campus events.
Andy Ngo details the slow response and the need for resolve, since legal tools already exist.
Quote:

“These are not isolated, singular, violent events. They are incredibly interwoven and connected… all around the world.” – Isabel Brown [30:29]
“His murder then really made it clear to Trump… it is radicalizing people towards violent murder.” – Andy Ngo [35:32]

Analysis: Why the Change Now?

[38:15 – 39:55]

Rubin speculates with Ngo: the sudden halt of Antifa/Hamas rallies after Kirk’s death signals top-down coordination, a sign the leftist establishment can control mass protests when strategic.
Quote:

“Every time we see one of these protests, there’s thousands of people… They can basically turn it on and off.” – Dave Rubin [38:15]
“They messed with the wrong person. That’s what happened here.” – Andy Ngo [39:55]

Media, Cancel Culture, and Free Speech

Debate over “Hate Speech” and the First Amendment

[41:26 – 42:09]

Dave Rubin highlights The View’s (notably, Whoopi Goldberg’s) rare defense of free speech, even mean and offensive speech.
Quote:

“I will fight for their right to say stuff I don’t like, because I will say stuff they don’t like.” – Whoopi Goldberg [41:39]
Isabel and Dave point out the conservative movement’s patience and refusal to exploit tragedy for unconstitutional retaliation.

Jimmy Kimmel Suspension and Cancel Culture

[44:07 – 49:57]

Jimmy Kimmel’s indefinite suspension after comments about Kirk’s murder discussed—Ngo and Rubin argue this is not cancel culture but consequences for dangerous, dehumanizing rhetoric.
Ngo warns: “There has to be some sense of mutually assured self-destruction… if you are going to establish these rules, expect the other side at some point to step up to the game.” [45:57]
Isabel reframes the moment as “consequence culture,” contrasting punishment for lying/incitement with previous conservative “cancellations” for speaking truth.

Exposing Media Double Standards

[51:34 – 58:29]

Clips played of media personalities like Brian Stelter (CNN), AOC, Chris Hayes and others decrying cancel culture now, after years advocating deplatforming and suppression against conservatives.
Quote:

“It is rather extraordinary to me that these people don’t think the Internet exists. Do they think people… are not going to clip it?” – Dave Rubin [57:38]
Andy Ngo:

“These are disgusting frauds. If they care about limiting incitement to violence, I wonder why they haven’t said anything about Blue Sky… These are frauds and I hope the public keeps pushing back.” [58:29]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“The cries of this widow will echo around the world like a battle cry. It gave me chills to hear her say that.” – Isabel Brown [12:46]
“Previously inactive conservatives are now becoming politically conscious…this is catastrophic for us.” – Andy Ngo [16:36]
“They’re not rioting in the streets, they’re praying and singing worship songs and filling up church pews.” – Andrew Colvet [20:55]
“Liberty is not man’s idea, it’s God’s idea.” – Charlie Kirk (as referenced by Isabel Brown) [23:32]
“He surpassed Rush Limbaugh by miles.” – Glenn Beck [15:03]
“Courage is contagious and a whole generation is about to prove that to the world.” – Isabel Brown [61:10]

Reflections and Calls to Action

Moving Forward After Tragedy

[60:47 – 61:52]

Isabel urges listeners to focus on hope, courage, and the spread of goodness in the face of darkness and hate, reinforcing Kirk’s ethos that light triumphs.
Andy warns of the enduring threat posed by the left’s radical fringe, hoping for a “red pilling moment” for the broader public.

Timestamps for Important Segments

[01:06] – Show begins proper, personal remembrance of Charlie Kirk
[04:38] – Andy Ngo on Antifa’s connection to recent events
[09:52] – Transition to Erica Kirk, TPUSA’s new CEO
[14:07] – Glenn Beck’s tribute to Charlie Kirk
[16:36] – Andy Ngo on Antifa’s reaction to the movement’s unity
[20:18] – Surge in TPUSA chapter requests and spiritual revival
[26:50] – Reports on London’s mass rally and European unrest
[28:51] – Trump’s Antifa terror designation, urgency for action
[38:15] – Rubin & Ngo on the coordinated “on/off” of protests
[41:26] – The View’s rare pro–free speech moment
[44:07] – Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension analyzed: cancel culture or consequences?
[51:34] – Media hypocrisy: comparisons to previous deplatforming narratives and reversals
[60:47] – Final thoughts, calls for courage and reflection

Conclusion

The episode serves as a tribute to Charlie Kirk’s legacy—personal, spiritual, and political. It’s also a frank reckoning with the normalization of political violence, cultural division, and the often disingenuous media conversation around free speech and cancel culture. Ultimately, the hosts call for unity, courage, and spiritual renewal to carry the conservative movement forward, arguing that this tragic moment has catalyzed a massive, faith-based revival among young Americans and beyond.

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Transcript

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Dave Rubin (1:06)

All right, guys, we are finishing up, obviously a very difficult week, but I couldn't be more pleased and thrilled and elated actually to have my two guests today. Two friends of mine, friends of the show and friends of Charlie's. Isabel Brown, of course, of the Isabel Brown show on the Daily Wire, and Andy Ngo, the Ed, the senior editor at Post Millen. Guys, it's been a rough week. We did a little bit of download off camera before we're starting this and I think we're all just kind of. Well, we're just gonna play this live right now and just hopefully get everybody into the weekend in better spirits. But Isabelle, let me start with you. Because you worked at Turning Point, I met you at a Turning Point event many, many years ago. You knew Charlie really well. We'll throw in some images of you guys doing things over the years. I've watched a bunch of your stuff this week and we're feeling like the exact. Also, some people know that your husband Brock worked for me for years. So, like, these worlds just keep colliding and then we end up having to talk about this stuff on camera, which is a little weird. How you feeling, you know, eight or nine days later? And where do you think we're at with all this?

Isabel Brown (2:19)

Yeah, you know, Dave, I keep saying in a lot of These interviews, it still doesn't really quite feel real. For those of us who know Charlie, I feel like I go through phases every few days or every few hours where it sinks in and it sets in that he's really gone. And then a couple hours later, I'm like, oh, I'll just see him in a few weeks at the next Turning Point thing. Or I'm sure his show will be back live with him at the microphone tomorrow. So I think that's just a normal part of grief, and we're all navigating that, for sure. But beyond that, I think the world is feeling that way because truly, Charlie Kirk represented something so much bigger than himself. He often used to tell me over the years, even back when I was a student, that he was mentoring and encouraging to get into the commentary space to follow certain people who were the benchmark ideological leaders of the conservative movement. And it would depend on the year, who he would say and who he would name for that. But I really think it was Charlie, and I don't know that he was fully self aware of that. But truly, he set the moral tone for the next generation of what we believed in, what our values were, what we got up to fight for every day. And that transcended to those older than us as well. So we're devastated, obviously, at the personal and global level. I think in our communities really feeling this loss. As you mentioned, I have a very personal story to Charlie. I owe my career to him. Certainly I would be a doctor if he hadn't plucked me out of obscurity on my college campus in Colorado State to encourage me to take a different career path. My husband Brock, who worked for you as well, and I met while working for Turning Point USA at a TPUSA conference, just like so many other hundreds of married families now. And our beautiful daughter wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the bravery and courage of Charlie Kirk. So we certainly are. Morning. And we're devastated. But looking forward this weekend to gathering together with people who knew and loved him and celebrating his life together.

Andy Ngo (4:38)

So I'm speaking to you half a day after Donald Trump announced that he would be designating antifa terrorist organization. I have more to say about that, but in, in some bizarre way, actually it was Antifa who brought Charlie and I together because in 2019, after I was beaten and hospitalized, it was him or someone on his team invited me to my first TPSA event and it was in D.C. they really wanted me to speak. I had no public speaking experience. I was this quiet, no name person that nobody knew in Portland, Oregon who posted videos on X. And Charlie was very insistent that okay, if you don't speak, can you at least come on stage so we can say thank you to you? And that gesture meant so much to me and it was my first time seeing TPUSA attendees. I remember going out and I wasn't expecting a standing ovation. I didn't think I deserved anything. And they did it. And I was taken aback by how young many of the faces were. I think there were a lot of high schoolers and even middle schoolers in attendance at that time. It was in D.C. in 2019. And last night I was uploading some interview I did on, on my YouTube and then like in my video recommendations it popped up an old interview that I did with Charlie on his show a few years ago. And I just get, when I think about what happened, it makes, I have this feeling of fury. Like somebody really a very good person was taken from us and, and taken in such a brutal way in a senseless. And I'm still, I mean I've been running 100 miles an hour a day working, reporting, trying to. There's so much going on and I'm doing that. But then like these moments that I pause and think, I just, I, I have a lot of anger and I, yeah, I just, I, I hope that very soon and then I can reflect more so on I know what, what he would want his legacy to be, which is, which we can see in the memorials have happened all over. I went to the memorial that was in London, so his reach was very quite global and I hate speaking about him in the past tense like this and I, I hate that. Sorry. There have been a lot of people who have been saying thank you to, to me for my reporting on Antifa because they, they, some of them feel that I deserve a lot of the credit for the Current administration prioritizing this terrorist network. But I think it was really Charlie who brought it past that finish line at the end. You know, his assassination happened in the context of so many antifa attacks on TPSA events, on his own events that he's done at campuses like. And people forget because in America we've normalized political violence against the left. There's no reporting when students who are tabling get the table turned over and somebody smashes a drink on their face or punches them in the face. Like that doesn't get any media coverage. And people just think that that type of dehumanization is normal. And I think that that's sort of the wider context of maybe how I, how I interpret and understand some of these messages and evidence allegedly from the assassin suspect.

Isabel Brown (11:41)

He absolutely did, Dave. I couldn't have said that better myself. And, you know, Erica Kirk is an amazing woman. She has very intentionally, I think, really focused her efforts on their family and in supporting Charlie's mission behind the scenes for the last few years, devoting herself entirely to supporting what he knew was possible, to change the world and to save the country and really ignite this next generation. But you heard her in her speech just two days after Charlie was so violently taken from us. She was devastated. She was heartbroken. She was trying to reason with how do I explain to my 3 year old that daddy's on a work trip with Jesus? Which makes me cry every time thinking about it. But you also saw this steadfast resolve in her, that she was ready to run into battle on behalf of her late husband and on behalf of this movement. I love seeing all these clips resurfacing. This is just one of many that are going viral this week of Charlie and Erica on his show or them in their personal lives, him telling his daughter how they met and how he knew that was going to be the mother of his children. You saw this concept of what we believe in marriage, that two souls, two fleshes become one flesh, that two individuals really do bind together for eternity. And I see so much of Charlie in Erica, especially in her steadfast resolve during that speech addressing the nation, which I actually had to ask my parents. I don't know that we've ever had a moment in American history like that after a high profile assassination, that the widow addresses the nation almost immediately to say, we are not backing down. We are not going anywhere. The cries of this widow will echo around the world like a battle cry. It gave me chills to hear her say that. And I know that she has so much strength. Not because of her own accord and not because this isn't difficult for her, because of course it is. Her whole world has just been torn inside out and completely devastated, but because she has the wherewithal and the fortitude to look up toward God and to thank him for every second she had with Charlie and to know that her mission and her vocation from above is just now beginning.

Isabel Brown (21:33)

It's really been sitting with me, Dave, the last few days. Andrew tweeted something along this regard, too. But Charlie didn't set out to have a revival of soul or a religious revival or even just searching for God, period, when he founded Turning Point usa, At least he never shared that with those of us who have known him in the organization for so long. My experience with Turning Point many, many years ago was that there were three key pillars, and that's all we really talk about. And that's what's going to unify all of our society. And it's limited government, free speech, and free markets. And if we can focus on those three pillars, we're going to bring over so many classical liberals, we're going to bring over people disenfranchised by the left. That was certainly your experience day. But it's been astounding, really, in the last week or so to see that that's not really been the response from the whole world, from an entire generation of people that instead are messaging me. And I know you and Andy probably as well by the thousands upon thousands. I just prayed for the first time today. I just purchased my first Bible today. I went to church for the first time last Sunday. You're watching Hymns of Amazing Grace be sung by the tens of thousands on college campuses at candlelight vigils. You're just watching this soul reform and Seoul movement sweep across the nation and the world. I'm getting videos from, no pun intended, Seoul, South Korea, from South Africa, from London, from Spain, all over South America. I've heard from people in Malaysia and Nepal that they are praying for Charlie and their communities out loud. And this concept of the grassroots response to this, of we are Charlie Kirk, I think, has been so moving to those of us who have been associated with Turning Point USA for so long and who have been fighting with Charlie on the political front, which can be very exhausting as you both. No, it's a very thankless job. It can feel like you're just swimming upstream, fighting for your life over and over again. I don't know if Charlie ever could have predicted that his greatest legacy and the greatest impact he would make on an entire generation was not to reelect Donald Trump to the White House or to protect freedom of speech or preserve limited government and liberty from a political perspective, but to let people seek the source of liberty, which is God. I had the chance about two weeks ago to share the stage with Charlie at one of his last speaking engagements on this earth. And I'm, I'm thanking God for that every second of every day right now. But he said in this last speech that he was essentially rallying up a whole crowd of a multi denominational church group. It was for a pro life event. But ultimately, he said, when people start to taste the streams of liberty, they want to find its source. And liberty is not man's idea, it's God's idea. What a powerful, larger than life mission for him to give his life to. Truly. But I can't imagine he would be prouder of anything else by what we're seeing from young people in their response.

Dave Rubin (24:15)

Yeah, I'm sure you guys have both seen it, but there's been this wonderful video of him talking to one, you know, to a college student and talking about his religious beliefs and then what a government, how a government should operate, and that he wouldn't want America to become a theocracy. But there is a way to frame your beliefs around, around what he believed to be the best sort of religious beliefs. And I just thought it was just like it was. So. It was so subtle and thoughtful and not the way we do this ever. So. All right, we're going to continue, obviously. Really the whole show in many ways has a through line of Charlie here. We're going to jump across the pond to something that happened where you are, Andy, in just a sec. But first, be better. Now, if you or your partner is over 55 and dealing with bladder urgency, you know it's more than just a minor inconvenience. Trips, outings, and travel start to feel like they're all about finding the bathroom. And when one of you has a hard time, you both feel it. That's why so many people have turned to betterment and better woman. These are clinically tested formulas trusted by thousands for more than 25 years. They help reduce urgency, cut down frequent trips, and support deeper, more restful sleep. All natural with no known side effects. They also give you something just as important. More confidence, more control, and more freedom to enjoy life together. Get them@bebetternow.com that's bebetternow.com and for our listeners, you'll get 10% off your first order with code RUBEN10live fully with confidence and control. So this actually is, I would say, ancillarily connected to Charlie. There was a absolutely massive rally earlier in the week probably. Well, Andy, you probably have more specific numbers than I do, but they're saying 2 to 3 million people marching through London to unite the kingdom. They've had an awful lot of rallies for Hamas, an awful lot of rallies with Hezbollah flags and everything else. So some of this footage is quite shocking actually. So andy, they're saying 2 to 3 million people. Everyone that's watching this show, we, we cover plenty of what's going on with the illegal immigration and migrant situation across Europe. And Tommy Robinson, who I had back on the show literally nine years ago, I can't believe it was that long. He was the leader of this thing. Elon Musk called in. It seems to me there has not been a lot. Oh, and by the way, there were a lot of people with Charlie Kirk signs and paying homage to Charlie and praying and all of those things. And obviously he represents a lot of what they're trying to restore in that country. It seems to me that maybe there's a little hope there where there has not been hope for a long time. You're over there in London. What did you say?

Isabel Brown (30:29)

With, as she should be. And many other people that we've suspected for a long time may have loose associations with some of these organizations. But, Dave, if I can, let's just back up for a second here, because we did one of our episodes of the show about this this week. I'm ecstatic that President Trump is declaring Antifa to be a terrorist organization. But I think for those of us, of us who have been working in the movement for such a long time, this feels like such a late designation that we've been streaming from the rooftops for a decade that somebody please needs to pay attention to this. Andy mentioned this before we started our call as well. But you know, there are many, many, many dozens of documented turning Point USA events featuring Charlie Kirk over the last few years with violent Antifa protesters, not just holding up signs and screaming and making noise, but smacking people in the face with umbrellas, kicking flashing windows to try to force their way violently into buildings, punching students and physically assaulting students in the face, literally screaming, we will kill you. I think we all remember quite recently Riley Gaines being detained inside of a classroom by these radically violent individuals. I was attacked by Antifa at Virginia Commonwealth University in April of 2023 where a 19 year old girl was punched in the face, the student who invited us to campus. And I was detained alongside Kristen Hawkins as the violent speaker that came to campus while these people were destroying property and physically assaulting young people. So I think it's great that we're going in this direction, but it's jarring. I think for so many of us who have been videoing this, posting it, begging people to pay attention to this for such a long time. Because to those of us that have been in the fight, it's incredibly obvious. These are not isolated, singular, violent events. They are incredibly interwoven and connected. Andy knows this better than anyone all around the world and there seems to be some single origins here, at least in common thread ideology. We're now learning on the other end of Charlie's assassination that there have been radical, these tran tifa groups, to borrow your term, Andy, in the Salt Lake City area operating for many, many years, including a group called Armed Queers of Salt Lake City that sent a delegation to Cuba in May of this year for armed marks to revolutionary training, who of course were all posting online. We're now learning in advance of Charlie's assassination, saying something's happening at this campus tomorrow. But no one paid attention to it then. And now we're being told by the mainstream media none of these things are interconnected. There's no common thread, there's no common funding, there's no common ideology here. This was just a crazy, deranged individual who may have, by the way, been acting in self defense for their trans boyfriend against the violence of Charlie Kirk. So I'm incredibly excited to know that we are stepping in this direction. And I hope and I pray and I call upon the administration and anyone in positions of leadership and power to do everything they can to get to the bottom of this. But I just, I hope and I pray we don't have another similar situation. In the meantime, knowing that we've been screaming this from the rooftops for a very, very long time, let's map out.

Andy Ngo (35:32)

I think so. Charlie brought it past the line because his murder then really made it clear to Trump that there, this so called antifa movement and ideology that's in the ether and which was allegedly referenced on some of these rifle cartridges by the way, it is radicalizing people towards violent murder. Murder. And there's been other assassinations done by self described antifa members. There was a Trump supporter in Portland during the 2020 riots in downtown Portland who was shot dead by a gunman who had a manifesto, described himself. I am 100% Antifa. So there's been prior victims unfortunately. And Isabel's very right to say it's been about a decade. It really has. People kind of forget. It's. Yeah, it's been really since 2016. Do people remember how about Trump supporters who were going to his rallies before he became the nominee, how they were brutally beaten in cities like in the Bay Area and there was one in San Jose, how people in Chicago were brutally beaten. The cars got smashed up when they were going in, going back to their vehicles, they were prevented from leaving. So it goes back very long. And during the first administration Trump did announce in 2020, actually people didn't remember that he, he was designating antifa terrorist organization. He said it before. And I don't know where the messaging got lost because the then US Attorney general did not pursue any of the, anything that could have been done at the federal level, like federal conspiracy charges, rico, you know, communicating threats through interstate on electronic devices. That's the federal crime. You can, there's so many tools available we don't need, like to get Congress to approve a whole bunch of new legislation. So my point is time is of the essence. There's three years left in this administration. They're going to need a hell of a lot of creativity, resolve and determination because you can expect immediately the ACLU is lined up, they're going to try to say that antifa is not organized in any way, it's simply an ideology against fascists and racists. They're going to argue that you're going to have the media that's going to gaslight the entire public into thinking that that antifa is a figment of the far right's imagination or if they're shown the videos of them committing violence and they say, well, you know, this is in the context of racial justice protests, so expect that. Expect anybody who speaks out on this, they're going to be really ruthlessly smeared. So the administration has. They're going to need a lot of resolve. And Andy, I think they can do it. They can do it. The laws are there.

Andy Ngo (45:57)

I first of all, I do want to react a bit to the Whoopi clip. I don't believe Whoopi, I don't believe the people on the beat that this is genuinely a principled position that they've held because otherwise where the hell were you several years before when people who were not spreading hate were accused of that and getting their lives destroyed through lies? And so my views on, on how we fight council culture, if you want will, I think the conversation has moved, should move past that. But stepping back a bit, there has to be some sense of mutually assured self destruction that if you are going to establish these rules, then expect the other side at some point to step up to the game and play by those rules. And so I actually, actually quite. I like seeing that a lot of people are facing some accountability for lying and for celebrating murder of a person and for calling, for suggesting for others to be killed because of having similar views. I mean there's really, there's two parts to the celebration. It's one, they're celebrating not just because, because it's Charlie Cook, but because of the views that he holds and who he represents broadly more in America. And they would like those people killed as well. So, yeah, they set up the rules of the game and they are now experiencing it and I hope more of them do. And, but I, I also, I think, I, I hope what's been IO for those on the right is that really the discussion really shouldn't even really be about Cancel Culture anymore. You have a certain faction on the left that's not insignificant who do want you dead and will create the environment where people, where they might not be the one who stabbed somebody or shoots somebody, but we create an environment where one of those people on their side feels emboldened to do it, feels like they'll become a martyr, a hero. You know, I mean, and I can point to so many examples. All those antifa gunmen that I mentioned before, they are considered heroes. Luigi Mangione, suspect in an assassination, is a celebrity and hero. And they held a dance party to celebrate the terrorism charges were dismissed two days ago. So this is who we're dealing with, you know, and bringing it back to council culture, I think is very 20, 19, 18 we're dealing with.

Isabel Brown (52:45)

Yeah, you're exactly correct. And obviously that's what we expected. I mean, the behavior here is always a double standard of my truth is different from your truth, my consequences are different from your consequences, my reactions. Reality gets to have completely different rules than the ones we set up for you. On one hand, I am slightly encouraged, Dave, by the fact that even the people who clearly don't mean what they're saying, who have railed against Charlie Kirk and said the most horrific things about him over the past few years, and I'm talking very high profile Democrats and CEOs of companies and whatnot here, they feel enough public pressure to at least say something nice. On one hand, that, that lets me feel like we're doing something positive in the culture world and, and that we really have moved the needle to change where the general public is at. That gives me a lot of encouragement. On the other hand, I just have had enough with these people, frankly, and I just don't have any patience left. The number of interviews I have done this week where people have asked that wonderful reporters have reached out from these adversarial organizations and news networks to say, we would love to pay tribute to your friend. Tell us about his legacy, tell us about the impact that he's made with young people, people. And then halfway through, they'll sneak in the most vile, disgusting questions that try to smear his legacy, the things that he believed in. The number of times I've been told this week that Charlie Kirk hated minorities, that he hated the Civil Rights act, he hated women. I mean, just the craziest things that are obviously not true. They genuinely think they can get away with this. And then the second we say that's a bold faced lie and we try to push back on that a bit, they then cry, cancel culture. But Riley Gaines characterized this really beautifully this week on Twitter. She calls it consequence culture, culture, not cancel culture. And I've really spent some time thinking about this, that the primary difference between what's happening culturally now, in the ramifications of these horrific lies being spread about Charlie versus what conservatives have been experiencing really since 2020 institutionally, is that when conservatives were canceled in the midst of COVID and everything beyond, then people were trying to silence you for telling the truth. The fundamental difference now is that you are facing consequences for spreading ridiculous, ridiculous lies that are putting people's lives in danger.