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The Rubin Report
Press Gasps When Told Trump’s Brutal Plan for Layoff of Gov’t Workers with Dinesh D'Souza
01:12:06
Dave Rubin of "The Rubin Report" talks to Dinesh D'Souza about his new movie The Dragon's Prophecy based on the book by Jonathan Cahn; Tucker Carlson's latest baseless conspiracy about Israel; White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt stunning the...
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- [00:00]
Dave Rubin
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [00:02]
Dinesh D'Souza
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [00:05]
Dave Rubin
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So, Dana.
- [00:12]
Dinesh D'Souza
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [00:24]
Dave Rubin
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [00:31]
Dinesh D'Souza
Nice. Je free. You heard them.
- [00:33]
Dave Rubin
T mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?
- [00:42]
Dinesh D'Souza
Dude, my work here is done.
- [00:44]
Dave Rubin
The 24 month bill credit on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge. Credit send and balance due. If you pay off earlier, Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence Data 182025 Visit T mobile.com all right, everybody, I'm Dave Rubin, this is the Rubin report and in lieu of a Friday roundtable extravaganza, I have legendary director. That's right, I'm calling you a legend. Dinesh d' Souza in studio with me, co hosting the show today. We're going to talk about your new film, which I watched this morning, which was absolutely fantastic, the Dragon's prophecy. And we're going to catch up on the news and all that stuff. But before we do any of that, you mentioned to me right before that, right before we started filming that you live in Houston, we're here in Miami. It's a lot of sweat. Are you happier coming to Miami or is this worse? Which is worse?
- [01:44]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, you know, it's transitioning to fall, so it's a little milder in Miami. Look, you know, the tropical look of Miami, can't beat that. We don't have that in Houston. We have the humidity. But you know Debbie, my wife and I, we joke. She was born in Venezuela, I was born in Bombay. So we grew up in really hot countries.
- [02:03]
Dave Rubin
So you guys are fine.
- [02:04]
Dinesh D'Souza
So we're fine.
- [02:05]
Dave Rubin
Good, good. Well, listen, I watched the film this morning. I was usually I'm able to watch just a short snippet of something before I do an interview. But I saw your interview with Roseanne Barr a few days ago and the way she was Talking about the film, I thought, I have to watch the whole thing. And I watched it this morning. I mean, it's absolutely, absolutely wonderful. So why don't we first. So we'll show you a quick shot of the movie poster before we get into any. And obviously, people are gonna recognize several of those people besides just you on that, on that poster right there. Eric Metaxas, of course, who's been on the show, and Bibi Netanyahu and Mike Huckabee, et cetera, et cetera. And let's show a quick portion. This is just a small portion, about a minute of the trailer. We'll get into that, and then we're gonna connect. I mean, the fact that the movie is coming out in theaters on Monday, as you mentioned, it'll be streaming next Thursday. But it is so timely relative to so many things happening right now, which I don't know if that was coincidence or happenstance or what. Let's take a look at the trailer and then we'll pick it up.
- [03:01]
Dinesh D'Souza
On October 7th was the Devil's holiday. It's very hard to believe what happened, even though I was there and seeing with my own eyes and seeing them laughing and killing and having fun with it, because if you don't open the door, they are going to kill you.
- [03:19]
Dave Rubin
And they are going to kill me.
- [03:20]
Dinesh D'Souza
So please open the door. So who are the Jews, who are the Palestinians, and whose land is it really? Could the fate of the world, of humanity itself, be somehow tied to this place?
- [03:40]
Dave Rubin
The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. So what if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy people of Israel? The Bible speaks about this whole war as a dragon representing the enemy attacking a woman representing Israel. Okay? So I think fairly obviously, people can see why this is timely and why it's important and all of those things. So, first off, where did the idea for the film come from? And then are you just kind of lucky that was the plan, that it will come out around the second anniversary of October 7th. Obviously, you didn't know all of the geopolitical stuff that was gonna happen. The fact that Trump has now offered this peace plan, that Israel has accepted Hamas now sounds like they're not accepting. There's just a lot of things going on in the world that connects directly back to this.
- [04:30]
Dinesh D'Souza
The film is a. It's a departure for me in the sense that, you know, my films and really all of them, in one way or another, are about the meaning of America. With this film, it actually began. I've long Wanted to do a film on sort of Christian apologetics. I went to Israel for the first time at the end of 2022, and I discovered that there's all this archaeology going on in which they're pulling out, you know, stones and clay seals and inscriptions out of the ground. And it's validating small details in the Hebrew and the Christian scriptures, kind of showing that the Bible is not like Greek mythology. It's in fact, a document about real people and real events. So I was very intrigued by all this, but kind of put it to the side nine months later, October 7th. And that's when I got the idea of doing a film that would sort of combine the politics, October 7, the war with biblical archaeology. And the link, as I saw it, was the ultimate question being whose land is it? So the archeology is good, not just for authenticating the Bible, but for establishing the ancient presence of the Jews in that land. And then I came across this fellow, Jonathan Cahn, and he had this arresting idea that the battle between Israel and Hamas, Israel and the Palestinians, he said, is a kind of recreation of an ancient biblical conflict between the Israelites, on the one hand, and their longtime enemies, the Philistines. And then he goes on not just to say that the Philistines, the Palestinians, it's the same name. He goes on to show the tactics are the same. He draws out this parallel in a very fascinating way. And then my wife is on a telegram channel where she's collecting all the footage of October 7th, and I begin to realize no one has seen this stuff. Apparently the Israeli government decided we're not going to be pushing it out there. We're going to show it to select journalists. But the consequences, people know about October 7th, but they don't have that feeling of having been there.
- [06:38]
Dave Rubin
Right. So just to be totally here, because I did see the 47 minute video at an army base in Israel, the stuff that most people have seen is not the worst of the worst, not at all. And that's what they didn't want, out of respect. Respect for the family members of those who were killed and everything else. I mean, there are literally. Well, I'm sure you've seen it, you have some of it in the film. But watching the man be beheaded with the Hamas guy smiling and laughing, that wasn't the worst of it. I mean, there were things that were worse than that. The two kids running into the bomb shelter, the father following them, and then the guy just throws the bomb in. You see them all stumble out and die right there. And he's laughing. I mean, it's off the charts insane.
- [07:15]
Dinesh D'Souza
It's off the charts insane. What I found from a cinematic point of view, and this is putting my movie hat on, is I said, what's really fascinating here is this is filmed by the attackers. So you're not gonna see it from the point of view of the kibbutzes with the terrorists approaching. It's almost like I'm gonna put the audience on a motorcycle with a GoPro, and you get to ride over the fence into the kibbutzes from the Hamas side.
- [07:38]
Dave Rubin
Not almost literally.
- [07:39]
Dinesh D'Souza
No, literally. Literally, yeah. Yeah. And this is not recreations. This is actually the opening 10 minutes of the film. And some of the most brutal stuff is not in there, but there's enough to give you a. And this is my filmmaking technique, right. If I go back to 2000 mules, I don't want to tell you about election fraud. I want to kind of put you on the scene. You see a guy pull up in a car at night, he's got a backpack full of ballots. You know, make up your own mind. And similarly here. And I think a lot of the reason why October 7th has not resonated emotionally with enough people is they just haven't seen it. And so that's how the film begins. I think what's different for me is not only the topic. This is my first film that is about Israel, about the Middle east, but it is also the fact that I'm integrating the political with the spiritual, the biblical, and even a hint of the apocalyptic. In other words, Bible prophecy. I think it's a very tantalizing combination, and it works in this case.
- [08:39]
Dave Rubin
So that's why I really liked it, because I think I thought going in that I was watching something that was going to be a little more political, but it actually is much more spiritual. And then I guess you could say historically driven. I mean, you go to the City of David and. Sorry, what's the guy's name again?
- [08:53]
Dinesh D'Souza
Zev Ornstein.
- [08:54]
Dave Rubin
Zev Ornstein, who? I did the dig at the City of David. Maybe you want to tell people what the City of David is and the excavation they're doing there and how that's connected to all this, because it's rather extraordinary. You walk in the footsteps of Jesus without question, actually.
- [09:08]
Dinesh D'Souza
Absolutely. Well, the City of David is. Well, it's built right around David's palace. You know, this is how this archeology is, and this is what first piqued my interest. So the renowned archaeologist Eilat Mazar comes to these folks at the City of David, a foundation that does archeology. And she says, you have to move your office. And so they go, why? She goes, because the palace of King David, I mean, think about it, 3,000 years ago, and until recently, people didn't even. People disputed whether David even existed, but his actual palace is underneath your feet. And they go, there's a mall over.
- [09:47]
Dave Rubin
There and all this other stuff.
- [09:48]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's right. And they go, well, how on earth would you know that? And listen to this. So she goes, she opens the Old Testament to the Book of Samuel. And she goes, look over here. It says that David invited the Phoenicians, King Hiram of Tyre, to send carpenters and stonemasons to build his palace. David could not build a palace. He brought in the experts, the Phoenicians and Eliat Mazar goes, we found a Phoenician artifact, a capital, the top part of a pillar right here. And so I'm going to infer that that's because the Phoenicians were here and they were building David's palace. Sure enough, you dig out come these giant walls, these giant pillars. So some people even to this day dispute, was it a palace, was it a royal administrative center? Well, it was clearly some massive, monumental structure, as the archaeologists call it. So, and then the pilgrimage road, which is the ancient road linking the Pool of Siloam. I mean, the Pool of Siloam is important because millions of Jews over the centuries have ritually bathed in it. It's the size of an Olympic swimming pool. And then there's a half mile pilgrimage road leading to the temple. So I asked them, and that's large.
- [10:57]
Dave Rubin
So what people need to understand though is that's largely underground still. I mean, now it's being excavated, but it's basically almost under the old city of Jerusalem, sort of leading to it.
- [11:05]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's right. And so when they did the archaeology, they had to preserve the road above. This is underground archeology, an incredible archeological project. But I asked Zeb, I go, well, what is the probability that Jesus walked on that road? And you know, in Jerusalem and in Israel generally, there are some archaeological sites disputed, like the road to Calvary. Some people go, it's over here. Some people go, it's over there. But in this case, Ze' Ev says the probability is 100%, because all the out of town Jews, so to speak, didn't have their own private baths. They had to come to this bath, ritually cleanse themselves, go to the temple. So the scenes right out of the Bible, old and New Testament both kind of spring to life. And the reason I have that in the film is because Jonathan Cahn gives an exposition kind of from a biblical point of view. But I have also a secular audience that's going to go, well, gee, how do we know that Pontius Pilate, Jeremiah, Isaiah, King David, how do we know these are real people? So the archeological section is a way of saying, guess what? I couldn't answer that question 50 years ago, but now I can. And I even offer the tantalizing idea that as the world is becoming more secular, sort of God is speaking back and speaking back through the language of science. That's what makes this so powerful. You look at a seal, it's a clay seal, it has the name of some obscure guy in the Bible mentioned only once. And then you go, well, all the people who've been telling me for 100 years that the Bible was written centuries later, they wouldn't have known about this guy. This guy was the royal steward to King Josiah in like the 6th century.
- [12:42]
Dave Rubin
BC is that the weirdest part of what connects it to the political part? Which is, is that the deeper you go down, the more you find out. And that doesn't seem to match the narrative of whatever you want to call them. The anti Israel set want you to believe that the facts are literally right there.
- [13:04]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, I mean, think about it. The main left wing critique of Israel is that the Jews are colonizers. Now, first of all, how do you colonize your own land, right? This is like accusing the Irish of colonizing Ireland, the Indians of colonizing India. It makes no sense. Not only that, but it's quite obvious that the colonization to the degree that there is one, is from the Islamic side. Right in the middle of Jerusalem is the site of the Solomonic Temple built by Solomon, later rebuilt by Herod, the second Temple. This is supposedly on the site where Abraham was ready to sacrifice his son Isaac. So it is far and away the holiest site in Judaism and Christianity. And yet what is sitting on top of it right now, An Islamic conquest arch known as the Dome of the Rock. And adjoining it, the Al Aqsa Mosque. So not only is this a sign of the Muslims basically saying, we're here now and we've taken it over, they would have been happy to have been called colonizers. They were very proud of it. Kind of like Hamas was really proud of October 7th, but we also look at it in a deeper sense. It's almost as if there is an endless war raging between God and The devil. And the theme of the film is that the devil imitates God. He inverts God's strategy. And so what is more wonderful for the devil than to take the holiest site in Judaism and Christianity and go sit on top of it? And that is exactly what he's doing right now.
- [14:36]
Dave Rubin
So that is a perfect segue to this segment or this portion that I wanted to show people where you asked commentator Eric Stacklebeck about the uniqueness as it pertains to anti Semitism, because that obviously is connected to a lot of the hatred of Israel, let's say. Take a look.
- [14:50]
Dinesh D'Souza
What do you make, Eric, of antisemitism? It seems to be a cousin of racism, and yet it's different. In racism, there's an effort by a group of to say, I'm up here and you're down there. You're inferior to me. But that's hard to say about the Jews because they are far and away the most successful tribe in world history. So antisemitism is not simply a looking down on the Jews, but in some weird way, it's a looking up to the Jews.
- [15:21]
Dave Rubin
It's the world's oldest hatred, certainly demonic, a spiritual driver to it, but much of it is based on envy.
- [15:29]
Dinesh D'Souza
People have asked why the Jews.
- [15:31]
Dave Rubin
The devil hates the Jewish people because they represent the existence of God. You can't explain the existence and the rebirth of Israel without bringing God into the picture. Where else in human history have we seen a people after 2000 years of disbursement, they returned to that homeland, they revived the Hebrew language, and it's in regular use for the first time in 2015, 500 years.
- [15:54]
Dinesh D'Souza
And you're saying it has to be a miracle?
- [15:56]
Dave Rubin
It's a miracle. So then is Israel just now the avatar for all the hatred because it became a ridiculously successful, safe, largely safe, I should say, flourishing society that is the envy of much of that part of the world and perhaps now what we're seeing across the Western world.
- [16:17]
Dinesh D'Souza
So I think, and I think Eric alluded to, to this, there is a natural and a supernatural dimension to it. And let's take a moment on each. The natural dimension is in fact that antisemitism is a disguised form of envy. The guy who's doing badly in the world likes to say that the Jews are doing better than his group. Not because they are smarter, not because they work harder, not because they are more industrious, not because they study more, not because they have more Nobel laureates and have made more discoveries. It's because they are uniquely wicked. They are willing to stoop to things that I and my group, the virtuous group, would never stoop to. So this is the natural human explanation, and it applies not exclusively to Jews. Other successful tribes get kind of the same thing. The supernatural explanation, I think, is worth adding to it, because I think the natural explanation by itself is not. Doesn't give the full account of it. The supernatural explanation is this. That going back to the very beginning. The rebel angels in heaven, God is fighting. And the devil. The devil can never defeat God. And so the devil develops a new strategy, which is to pick on the things that God cares about. So, like, why does, in Genesis 1, why does the devil tempt Adam and Eve? What has he got against Adam and Eve? What have Adam and Eve done to him? Nothing. But his idea is that if I can ruin God's creation, I get the last laugh on God. That's my ultimate revenge. And God. And in a sense, the devil picks on the Jews for the exact same reason, if the Jews are the people of God. And by the people of God here, I mean, I don't mean chosenness in some esoteric sense. I just mean this is the instrument by which we get the Ten Commandments, the law, the prophets. So the Jews are witnesses in a way to God in that sense. Right. So if that's the case, the Devil goes, okay, I need to ruin those people. How do I do it? First of all, I push them out from the river to the sea. I get rid of them, and number two, I go occupy their holiest place and I declare it off limits. And the Jews can't worship at the side of their own temple except at the Wailing Wall. So the idea here is that the Jews, and by extension the Christians, because the Christians are, you know, Jesus, we present ourselves as spiritual Israelites. We are engrafted onto the Jewish covenant. That's how the New Testament relates to the Old. So if the Bible is right, you would expect to see now, in a kind of end times or the last age, an increased hostility to the Jews and increased persecution of the Christians. And not only is that what we see, it's coming from the same people. And I don't just mean it's the radical Muslims on the one hand, but notice it's also coming from the secular left. The secular left hates Israel. The secular left hates the Christians and the radical Muslims and the secular left, who would not seem to have a lot in common. Like, what does an LGBTQ guy have, you know, in common with? He's not going to move to Gaza. His life isn't going to be that good. And similarly, you can't take a bunch of jihadis and put them at the Folsom Street Fair. They're not going to fit in so well. So this odd, strange bedfellows are united by hatred of the Jews and the Christians. And I think. So this is where the movie comes out. The Jews and the Christians need to come together. The Christians and Israel need to come together. Recognizing that we have a common adversary in both radical Islam and in the secular left.
- [19:56]
Dave Rubin
Right? That's actually one of the best explanations of the Red Green alliance that I've ever heard. There's obviously a religious portion of it that's mostly coming from radical Islam, right? But then the hyper secular version of it is what the left now the holidays can get hectic, and having Omaha Steaks in my freezer has been a total game changer. I recently cooked up their filet mignons, incredibly tender, juicy and packed with flavor.
- [20:21]
Dinesh D'Souza
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- [20:24]
Dave Rubin
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- [20:25]
Dinesh D'Souza
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- [20:30]
Dave Rubin
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- [20:32]
Dinesh D'Souza
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- [20:39]
Dave Rubin
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- [20:42]
Dinesh D'Souza
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- [20:44]
Dave Rubin
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- [20:48]
Dinesh D'Souza
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- [20:51]
Dave Rubin
Code flavor@ check is which is just we hate Western society. That thing represents Western society. Let's go all in.
- [20:59]
Dinesh D'Souza
And the way that the left incorporates this is they treat the radical Muslims as another ethnic group. So the left says, all right, we got the blacks over here, we got the feminists over there, we got the LGBTQ over here. All right, then here we have the Ilhan Omar people, the Mamdani people, you know, the illegals who have come in from Iran. They're going to be just one more constituency group and we will treat them in that way. It's a very dangerous game they're playing. But the left thinks we can incorporate them. The radical Muslims think we don't have very good entree into this society. The left will let us into the boardrooms. They will get us. They will connect us with George Soros and all these the other people we need to meet. So the alliance has worked out for both sides, right?
- [21:49]
Dave Rubin
Unfortunately for the lefties, they just get beheaded a little lower on the neck, right? I mean, they just have to bury their head in the sand a bit more. But the beheading still ends up coming. So clearly people can see how this is connected to so much of what's going on. Let me just ask you one other question, then we'll connect this to some of the news of the week, which I don't want you to give away the full conclusion of the movie per se, but are you hopeful there's a way out of a seemingly intractable problem that's a political problem, but now you're also arguing is a spiritual problem, let's say?
- [22:20]
Dinesh D'Souza
Yeah, I think it needs to be dealt with at both levels. I mean, my reason for having Netanyahu in the film, for example, is to talk politics, but I also ask him questions like, what do you think of Jesus? You know, and I think he very interestingly talks about, about the Jewishness of Jesus and the fact. And, you know, these days, of course, the left is trying to say Jesus was a Palestinian or so there is a political solution. What you have here with the political solution is, you know, Trump comes in and he'll say something that seems, on the face of it, absurd. Gaza needs to be another Riviera. People laugh, they go, this guy doesn't even know what he's about talking, talking about. But Trump is like a real estate guy, right? He looks at the rubble and he goes, you know, I see some opportunities for some new buildings and clean streets and safe neighborhoods and people going to work and high tech companies and prosperity. So let's offer these people another road. They may not take it. They may be too twisted, they may be too indoctrinated, they may love blood, but at least they are being given an option. I think that's really what's on the table here. Now, the spiritual side of it, I think is very important and is particularly relevant after Charlie Kirk. And that is the sort of mood, of renewal, of a need for us to connect the political to the moral to the spiritual. And I think this film actually fits that mood very well because where the film comes out, and I don't mind giving away the ending in these kinds of films, the, the plot, so to speak, is not key, it's the experience of the film. The ending is basically saying this, look, if God has raised back the Jews and brought them back to their ancestral homeland, and if the devil has decided, let me recreate in a modern way the enemies of Israel, the Philistines, you know, the Moabites, the Amalekites, so if things are going back, then we have to go back. And by we, I mean the Jews are going back, right? You've got young 19 year olds and 22 year olds in Israel and they're putting on the armor of the ancient Israelites. And the message of the film is, hey, Christians, we need to do the same thing. We need to go back to the way Christians were in the Book of Acts. I mean, the main difference, I think, between Christianity and Islam right now in the world. Islam has not lost the force of its original revelation. Christianity in many ways has. And so the renewal, I think, is to recover that, to recover the kind of energy of the early apostles who are on fire for the faith. Now there are Christians like this, by the way, in Nigeria. This is why the radical Muslims want to behead them. Because Islam is spreading basically by having eight kids and Christianity is spreading by conversion. So it's a competition and the Muslims are worried about it and they want to stop.
- [25:17]
Dave Rubin
Do you think that Christian revival is the only thing that will stop radical Islam throughout the West? I mean, we're going to get to what happened in Manchester yesterday in just a second. But I mean, I see no other way, sort of for Europe to combat what's happening.
- [25:30]
Dinesh D'Souza
I think it's a necessary part and I would put it philosophically in this framework. Athens and Jerusalem, neither one can stand by itself. These are the two pillars of the West. Now Athens at some level doesn't need a defense, right? It's Socrates, it's Marcus Aurelius, it's the Greek theater, it's Pericles and the foundations of democracy. But Athens has always been nourished and sustained by Jerusalem, which is Abraham and Moses and the prophetic tradition. And the idea of a moral law that is outside of us, not merely inwardly generated, that puts claims on us. And I think the founders would have said that, that the good life is to combine both. Those were the sort of. That was the soil of the American founding. So the restoration of the west requires, I think, a revival of Jerusalem, even more so than Athens. And Athens ultimately needs to be saved by Jerusalem the way it was in the history of the West. I mean, when we read Aristotle, Aristotle and when we read Socrates, we're actually not getting the ancient Greeks the way they were. The ancient Greek society was incredibly bloodthirsty. It had widespread slavery, it was brutal in a manner that we would find unendurable today. We get, when we go to, you know, we go to Yale and Dartmouth, we study Greece as filtered through Jerusalem.
- [26:57]
Dave Rubin
Although Yale and Dartmouth are getting bloody again. Yeah, in some Respect. Although it's different thing altogether. All right, well, let's connect a lot of this to what's going on. So yesterday, obviously, was the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur, and surprise, surprise, unfortunately, no surprise, two Jewish people were killed outside of a temple in Manchester. We've got this from the BBC. Two Jews have been died in a car ramming and stabbing attack at a synagogue in Manchester. The attack came on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish religious calendar and is being treated by police, is a terror incident. Police said they believe the attacker, who was shot dead at the scene, Jihad Al Shami, 35, a British citizen of Syrian descent. I was off for the holiday, so I was trying not to be on my phone and everything, and then I started getting alerts and seeing what was going on. I mean, there's nothing surprising about this. I sort of felt like. I felt. You mentioned Charlie a moment ago, the day that Charlie was killed. It's like. It's shocking, but not so surprising that these things keep happening. Then literally within hours, in Manchester and throughout London, there were massive. Pro Hamas, that's what I call them. You can call them pro Palestine, but I have no problem calling them pro Hamas. Rallies where they're screaming river to the sea. And they are screaming, kill the Jews and a bunch of other stuff. I mean, the uk, what do we do?
- [28:16]
Dinesh D'Souza
I mean, you have, first of all, you have a guy named Jihad and.
- [28:19]
Dave Rubin
His name is Jihad.
- [28:19]
Dinesh D'Souza
So one could say metaphorically, Jihad has quite clearly come to, you know, come to Great Britain. Right.
- [28:25]
Dave Rubin
Do you think Jihad got asked maybe one extra question during his incoming, his intake from Syria?
- [28:30]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, this is the lesson I draw out of this, is that going back to 9, 11, we thought that the Jihad is going on over there. Israel is the little Satan. They're focused on all that. But it's quite obvious that you've got a global jihad project, right? It's cooked up in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, it's cooked up in Pakistan. And those guys don't wake up in the morning and they don't care about Gaza. They don't even. They don't care about Palestinians. In fact, their main project, I think now their targets are the following. Australia, Canada, Europe and the United States. I live in Texas, right? Red state, Houston, Dallas. Proliferations of mosques, radical Muslims running for school boards. They want to create, you know, 100 Ilhan omars. So for anyone who thinks that somehow if we, you know, if we jettison Israel, it'll all settle down and the Muslims will be at peace. This is not the case. They have a larger agenda.
- [29:39]
Dave Rubin
You know, it's interesting. Right after October 7th, I'm Jewish, so I happen to care about this, let's say, a little bit more than the average person. That's okay. That is what it is. But my argument always was you don't have to care about the Jews and you don't have to care about Israel or anything else. But as an American or as any Westerner, you think if they take out the Jews in Israel, they're just going to be like, okay, we're good, guys, let's go home. The magic trick's over. No. Then it's really on.
- [30:05]
Dinesh D'Souza
Then it's really on. Not only that, I would say that the United States has a very bad record in fighting radical Islam. Right. Let's review briefly. Number one, Jimmy Carter pulls the Persian route out from the Shah. We get Khomeini. That's how radical Islam gets a hold of a major state. After 9, 11, we pulverize the Taliban, but they're back. So long term, they win. Iraq, of course, was a mess. So Israel is on the ground, they're on the scene. And I think part of what makes Israel so effective is when you are in Israel, you feel this like, Gaza, I'm standing in a kibbutz, is like a football field away. So Israel is on the edge of survival. Americans don't have that psychology. And as a result, there's a certain kind of nervous readiness in Israel. So I attribute Israel's affair effectiveness not only to its sort of strategic brilliance, the pager. I mean, this stuff, I don't see our CIA pulling off anytime soon. But it's a combination of being on the scene and also being kind of battle ready, battle tested. So Israel is. They know how to fight this war. They can take on Iran, which is eight times bigger than Israel, and clobber Iran in a matter of days. Now, the United States gets involved at the end, but guess what? We like, can we, hello, hello, Mr. Trump. You know, can I borrow like, a B2 bomber with some fighter jets to protect it for like, 48 hours? So look at our ROI. I mean, to put it bluntly, look at our return on investment. People complain, oh, we give $3.8 billion. I mean, that's 5% of our foreign aid budget. Every other country we give money to, we get nothing out of probably just the middle finger. But with Israel, we are getting somebody who is on the front lines fighting radical Islam, a fight that I add we have been terrible at so far.
- [31:54]
Dave Rubin
All right, so let's connect this to something that I've been like a little resident or hesitant to talk about, which is that it seems like some of the influencers on the right have gone all in on the obsessive hatred of Israel connecting the Jews to everything. Some of these people I've in my past considered friends, broken bread with, wrote blurbs for my books, been at weddings together, all of these things. So I haven't talked about it that much. Tucker, to me, something very strange is going on over there. You've been talking about him quite a bit. It's obviously connected to what we're talking about right now. So now to the backdrop of the clip we showed from the movie with the explanation of anti Semitism, I want to show you this clip from Tucker's show where he's explaining something about anti Semitism, where it comes from.
- [32:40]
Dinesh D'Souza
And if you're wondering why there's an awful lot of lunatic anti Semitic comment about Israel online, you have to wonder how much of that is organic. Some of it, of course, they're always haters, but how much of it is not organic at all? How much of is of that the lunatic all Jews are evil. How much of that is being ginned up on purpose to make legitimate questions about the U.S. government's relationship with the government of Israel seem like crackpot stuff.
- [33:11]
Dave Rubin
Like hate, like David Duke level lunacy.
- [33:16]
Dinesh D'Souza
Probably some because it serves their interests.
- [33:19]
Dave Rubin
Okay, I'm not even sure exactly where to begin with this. This is a guy who every day on his show is obsessing over Israel, Israel, while telling you that you're not allowed to talk about Israel. But he's making a lot of bank while doing it. He constantly, every time he criticizes some individual person, it's always a Jew, whether it's Ben Shapiro or Mark Levin or he went after me in August, which I just found out, Barry Weiss, et cetera, et cetera. And then there he is saying that Israel is likely to blame for the anti Israel hate. That is some really profoundly ridiculous stuff.
- [33:53]
Dinesh D'Souza
I mean, to me, the most, when he talks about lunatic content, the most dangerous lunatic content quite obviously comes out of Tucker himself, generally in the form of a ventriloquism with his guests. So Tucker himself doesn't really say what Tucker's role is to ask a leading question that conceals an answer inside of the question. And then his guest will accept expound it, and Tucker will wholeheartedly agree, pretending.
- [34:25]
Dave Rubin
He'S never heard of any of this before.
- [34:27]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. It's always right. His strategy is he's getting epiphanies. And so his guest will say something like, well, you know, I think we should have allied with Hitler in World War II against Stalin now. And Tucker will say something like, well, that's very interesting. And then the guest will say, well, they're both autocrats. And then Tucker will say something. Well, you know, even at the time, there were people who said, now here is where Tucker is playing a sleight of hand. Because Tucker actually knows. Tucker's a pretty smart guy. Tucker knows that at the end of World War II, people like Patton basically said, we're over here. We've clobbered the Nazis. Maybe we should go clobber Stalin. But Patton would never say, and never dream of saying. And in fact, no respectable person would dream of saying we should have allied with Hitler or that somehow Stalin posed a greater threat to the world at the time than Hitler did. But for a lot of young people, these nuances are elided. They're conflated. And so you can have young people going, wow. I mean, see, Tucker is like a sage of the ideocracy, you know, so for people who have historical ideas, amnesia, they don't know anything. When Tucker says something, like at the time there were people who did talk about this. The young people go, wow, this is like mind blowing stuff. I've never heard it. You never heard it because it never happened.
- [35:49]
Dave Rubin
Right. It's sort of like catnip for the masses or the confused in some way.
- [35:52]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's it. And with Candace, it's a different story. And I like Candace. I've spoken at Blexit. You know, I have a connection with her going back. But we have to remember that the Tucker and the Candace that we love, we loved for different reasons. They built their reputation on other issues. They have both taken this dark turn. We didn't tell them to do it. They chose to do it. And Candace follows the strategy of the bogus investigation. Now, to me, this is somewhat embarrassing because in my films I do investigations. And like Tucker, I like challenging received opinions. But I try to do it in a manner that takes. Puts out a bunch of facts, challenges premises, anticipates objections. Whereas what Candace will do is she will put out an extremely incendiary suggestion. Like, take a look at this photo. Here is a drain pipe. Maybe a Mossad guy crawled out of it and shot Charlie Kirk. Okay, do we see a Mossad guy? Do you have any evidence there was someone who came out of the pipe or the pipe was even accessible.
- [36:57]
Dave Rubin
Have evidence it didn't happen.
- [36:58]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. Prove it didn't. And then once the theory is capsized, far from any kind of acknowledgement, recognition. So these are investigations that never produce a reliable fact and never come to a conclusion in which one incendiary theory is replaced by another. So Candice is, in a certain way, mesmerizing. I think she relies on a certain narcotic in which you become addicted to this mode of suspicion. It's almost like deconstructionism for the right. Right. Because what is deconstructionism? It's a professional mode of you believe nothing, you take a straightforward sentence, and you try to deconstruct it.
- [37:39]
Dave Rubin
So what do you think is actually. Without even so specifically talking about the two of them, what do you think is happening with whatever this thing is on the right that we're referencing? What do you think that is? Because one of the things that I've been doing on this show since Trump got elected is talking about his wins over and over and over. I think the country has. There's such an upside to the country right now. We're fixing so many things, obviously, whether it's the border or the trade deals or trying to get peace in the Middle east or at least trying something different with Ukraine, Russia, and cleaning up our cities. Like the list goes on, getting woke out of our schools. Every day, there is something new that is positive to talk about, and there's a portion of the right that never talks about that. And what I would want the president to be aware of right now is that those guys are trying to take MAGA out. The thing that created the maga, that brought in Elon Musk and Joe Rogan and Tulsi and Bobby and me and all these people, that's the thing they're trying to destroy. And I wonder if he's aware of that.
- [38:34]
Dinesh D'Souza
Trump generally has this approach of sitting on the the side of sidelines and letting it play out a little bit. And I think that's what he's doing right now. Remember when there were bitter battles between, like, Laura Loomer and Marjorie Taylor Greene? Trump's view is like, all right, just cat fight, you know, that's right. I'm gonna do other things. But you are right that, first of all, this is a gift to radical Islam, because Israel is fighting radical Islam. If you go and you want to break down Israel, break down our alliance with Israel, you are helping the Islamic radicals and the jihadis. There's no other way to look at it. The second thing is that maga. So let's look at the Charlie Kirk assassination for a minute. You have these violent sort of rings on the left, antifa. Apparently some of these trans guys go to military training. There was apparently some talk, some reports that, about a discord channel where some people might have known in advance about what's gonna happen. The FBI is on the case. And for the first time in a long time, we have the opportunity to actually break up these violent enclaves of the left.
- [39:45]
Dave Rubin
And we also have the people working at the FBI. We have the right people, we wanted in. And that if you don't trust Dan Bongino, if you don't trust Kash Patel, if you don't trust Tulsi, it's like, who the hell do you want, right?
- [39:55]
Dinesh D'Souza
And then here you come along and say, no, it's actually Israel. I mean, it's almost like you're providing a criminal defense for the shooter, right? You're basically the shooter can go in and say, you know what? Yes, you guys have my DNA, you have my footprints, you have some video of me. But what if a Mossad guy came out of a pipe? You know, there's reasonable doubt for you. This is destructive. And you're right, you know, it's the reason it can break up the MAGA coalition is that it's not only an ideological divide, by the way, it's also generational. It is severing our young people away from our older people. And Charlie felt that, right? The donors are older, by the way. The donors are not even predominantly Jewish. I happen to know many of these donors. It's the mainstream of the Republican Party. It's businessmen, it is evangelical Christian entrepreneurs, it's Jews. Right? None of them are happy about this kind of anti Israel turn and also the poisonous anti Semitic thrust of it. So turning point I don't think is going to go in that direction. But if they do, it's very bad for them because they're not just going to suffer the exodus of the Jews, they're going to suffer the exodus of the mainstream of the Republican Party that is going to cut them off. Because can you see some mainstream Republican businessmen man trafficking in anti Semitism? Impossible. That's just not happening. And Trump knows it, by the way. So I think this is, whatever its motive, its effects are potentially catastrophic, which is why I've decided, again, somewhat against my instinct, somewhat against my will, to kind of go all in on this, even against people I've known quite well.
- [41:38]
Dave Rubin
So that was actually the last question. I was going to ask you. And then we'll move on to some other things happening in the world, which is that there's a personal component to this that makes it very complex. Tucker blurbed one of my books. I reached out to him several times last spring saying you can come on my show to talk about it or I'll go on yours. I offered to, you know, broker peace with morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [41:58]
Dinesh D'Souza
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [42:01]
Dave Rubin
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me, Saldana.
- [42:08]
Dinesh D'Souza
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [42:19]
Dave Rubin
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice.
- [42:27]
Dinesh D'Souza
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [42:29]
Dave Rubin
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [42:37]
Dinesh D'Souza
Dude, my work here is done with.
- [42:40]
Dave Rubin
24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due to payoff earlier Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto paypal taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove speed test intelligence data 1H2025 visit t mobile.com with him and Ben. I did all of this privately and it was all shunned away. You toured with Tucker, you mentioned in Australia only a year ago. So it creates this odd situation where you don't want to. I don't. And I sense you don't want to fight with people publicly. And then there's this other set of people that not only I think are doing something dishonest, but are more than happy to throw everyone they knew under the bus at the same time.
- [43:17]
Dinesh D'Souza
Right. So I think it's just I'm going, I'm making a different prudential judgment than Megyn Kelly. So Megyn Kelly seems to take the view Candace as a young mom. Candace reached out to me. I know Tucker very well. So I'm not going to criticize them on the basis that I know them. And so my fight is with the left. My view is the opposite. It is that if this was some triviality, if they were on some Kick of their own. I would leave it. I'm not interested in.
- [43:50]
Dave Rubin
Right. If it was about marginal tax rate or something, it would be insane.
- [43:53]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. All right, Tucker has some particular beef with this. Let it be. But when something is threatening to drive a wedge right through the MAGA coalition. So it's bad for maga, it's bad for the country. And I want to emphasize it's bad for America first. You know, I think one of the reasons I'm getting a lot of attack right now and people are really desperate to show, hey, Dinesh, are you getting $7,000 for this post? They're desperate to say that I'm somehow being paid. And I say, listen, guys, number one, you know, I'm Christian, I'm not Jewish. Number two, I've never made a film about Israel. I'm clearly not obsessed with the topic. This is the first time I've even talked about it in 30 years.
- [44:31]
Dave Rubin
Number three, to be 100% honest with you, when I saw that the film was coming out a few weeks ago, before I saw it and before I'd seen it, I didn't know which way you were going on it or where it was going to go or anything else. I've had Dinesh on the show. I like him, but I had no freaking idea.
- [44:42]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. And number three, ever since I discovered biblical archeology, because of my longtime interest in. In Christian apologetics, our family's been giving 100 grand a year to Jerusalem for biblical archeology for the last three years, and we're going to continue doing it. So I'm like, really? I mean, I'm not on Israel's payroll. I mean, it's probably more accurate to say Israel is on my payroll, so stop with the $7,000 madness. I don't have a dog in the fight in that sense, but I think for that exact reason, people find it hard to believe that I would be so pro Israel. And my reasons for being so are America first. So that's what the film does, is it makes a real politic case at the same time as it makes a moral and biblical case. And the moral and biblical case is more connected with Athens and Jerusalem and preserving the deeper roots of the West. And this has been the work of my whole career, so it's a logical application of it.
- [45:43]
Dave Rubin
How do we go from the moral and the philosophical and the religious to a government shutdown? How do I segue that? I'm not exactly sure I will think about it for 30 seconds while we talk about perplexity. Let Me ask you, how much time do you spend every day on a web browser? Clicking, typing, searching, scrolling through endless tabs. It all adds up, right? Well, there's a new AI powered browser from Perplexity called Comet, and it's completely changing the way we use the Internet. Using Comet feels like having a personal assistant living right inside your. Your browser. And I don't just mean giving you answers. It actually does things for you. Comet can click, type, scroll, search, and take action across the web in real time, just like you would. It can shop for you, book, travel, make reservations, summarize videos or articles, send emails, schedule meetings, and even unsubscribe you from spam. And it all happens while you get back to your day. I've tried it myself, and it's a game changer. For example, I asked Comet to find me a few products across multiple sites and find me the best deal. It handled the whole process, searching, scrolling, pulling up prices and saved me a ton of time. Pretty cool, right? Well, you gotta see this in action. Download Perplexity's new AI web browser, Comet, at pplx AI Rubin, and let your browser actually work for you. Plus, right now, when you download Comet, you'll get a month of Rumble premium for free. That's PPLX AI Rubin. Go now and take back your time online. From the spiritual to the government. The government has shut down. And yet somehow Dinesh d' Souza was able to get on a plane, you were able to get to a hotel, you were able to get, get in a car. You made it here, things seem to be going okay. And now they've. I love this clip because they've given the Trump administration an excuse to fire a bunch of people who probably don't deserve to have jobs in the first place. Here's Carolyn Levitt.
- [47:28]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.
- [47:31]
Dave Rubin
And it's because the Democrats have put.
- [47:32]
Dinesh D'Souza
Us into this position. If the Democrats did not vote to shut down the government, we would not.
- [47:37]
Dave Rubin
Be standing up here talking about layoffs today.
- [47:39]
Dinesh D'Souza
We'd be talking about all the other.
- [47:40]
Dave Rubin
News stories going on in the world in our country.
- [47:42]
Dinesh D'Souza
We'd be talking about all of the great things that this administration is doing to uplift Americans across the country. But unfortunately, the Vice President of the United States and I have to come out here today to talk about a government shutdown that the Democrats put us.
- [47:55]
Dave Rubin
In this position in. A second question. Thanks, Caroline. Just to clarify the timing of these potential layoffs to federal workers, you said imminent. The Vice President seemed to say in.
- [48:06]
Dinesh D'Souza
A couple of days.
- [48:06]
Dave Rubin
It looks like Russ vote maybe said in two days. What is. When would these layoffs begin?
- [48:13]
Dinesh D'Souza
Two days.
- [48:14]
Dave Rubin
Imminent.
- [48:15]
Dinesh D'Souza
Very soon. You will expect more announcements right now.
- [48:18]
Dave Rubin
Is it just unclear or are you waiting?
- [48:20]
Dinesh D'Souza
Is it. No, it's not unclear. All of those things are very synonymous with one another.
- [48:25]
Dave Rubin
These rifts are unfortunately going to have to happen very soon. All right, so there's something particularly interesting to me about this, which is that we go through this every couple years. The government shuts down, everyone blames the other side. It's Republican administrations. It's okay, fine. We've all been through that. The fact that they are now talking about permanent layoffs, meaning we are going to find out who is non essential, which is a phrase, which is a really sort of 1984 Orwellian phrase, non essential. Why do you have the job in the first place? But that basically the Trump administration is using the shutdown as a way of cutting more of the fat that clearly the American people want post doge. So this seems all good to me. I don't see any downside to what's happening right now.
- [49:09]
Dinesh D'Souza
There's absolutely none. I mean, the difference here is that the Republicans have the will to do something that they've never had the will to do before. The reason that the shutdowns worked politically for the Democrats in the past is that the Democrats could always appeal to. You're shutting down the government. And Republicans would immediately go, yeah, I know, I know, but we're trying to get a blah, blah, blah. Whereas this time it's kind of like, tee hee hee, you know, yeah, we're shutting down the government, but you're actually giving us a chance to do what we have long wanted to do. So there's a little bit when my only disagreement with Karen Liebet is she uses the word unfortunately, it's actually extremely fortunate.
- [49:51]
Dave Rubin
I think she's kind of being sorry.
- [49:52]
Dinesh D'Souza
Yeah, no, no, exactly. We are very against our will. We are slashing the size of government. No, I think this is all the new unleashed Trump. After the way they went after him, he's just a different guy. I don't think he would have done this in the first term.
- [50:10]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, right. So there's a couple things. You're probably right. He's leveled up for sure. You know, Trump too. Politics or whatever you want to call it. But then it's also to the backdrop of, I don't know, after Covid, after inflation Reduction act, after all these ridiculous things that the government did, people just don't care as much about the government. The libertarians, who don't get much right politically. The ideology actually started to stick, I think, in some people's brains.
- [50:33]
Dinesh D'Souza
Yeah. And then the press, which generally has been the main instrument of attacking the Republicans, you know, they're reduced to now saying things like, well, you know, Dave and Dinesh, if you guys are hiking in Yellowstone, you know, the bathrooms may not really be working because the federal workers are laid off. And I'm like, it's Yellowstone. I mean, I'm from India. Go anywhere. I mean, isn't that what they call it, Yellowstone?
- [51:00]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, that's the type of importing of culture. That's a bit much.
- [51:05]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's right. This is perhaps. I'm not saying that you did use.
- [51:08]
Dave Rubin
The bathroom before they told me.
- [51:11]
Dinesh D'Souza
I certainly did. I certainly did.
- [51:13]
Dave Rubin
But. Okay, so the thing that the Democrats. Well, the other tactic that they have, of course, is not just that the bathrooms won't work, but that everyone's gonna die. That's a big one. Bernie's doing it. AOC is doing it. Millions are gonna die. But we've been through this all before, and I don't think anyone's buying it anymore. A lot of this seems to have to do with the fact that they. Part of what the Democrats want is to keep illegals on our health care. And people voted for Trump for the exact opposite of that. This is a spectacular moment. This is on Fox News in the Morning. Lawrence Jones talking to Senator from New Hampshire, Jean Shaheen, about supporting health care for illegals.
- [51:49]
Dinesh D'Souza
I haven't heard anybody in my party saying that illegal immigrants should get access to the health insurance marketplace.
- [51:55]
Dave Rubin
I'm so glad you said that. Actually, I have some tape of your Democratic Party members saying this on the debate stage. So they've all said. And let's play the clip. A lot of you have been talking.
- [52:07]
Dinesh D'Souza
Tonight about these government health care plans that you proposed in one form or another. This is a show of hands question.
- [52:13]
Dave Rubin
And hold them up for a moment so people can see.
- [52:17]
Dinesh D'Souza
Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.
- [52:25]
Dave Rubin
Okay, Senator, that's literally every member of your party, from moderate to more progressive, that have said that in the past.
- [52:35]
Dinesh D'Souza
Dinesh.
- [52:36]
Dave Rubin
My audience knows I love bringing receipts. I love when people do this, when Ted Cruz goes on the View and they say something crazy, and he's like, well, look at this. Her face, her face. It's perfect. It's perfect. What is going on with the Democrat Party right now? I think, obviously we're not Democrats. But if we were trying to help the Democrat party, what would you be telling these people? You're sitting there with Chuck and AOC in the room. What would you be telling them?
- [53:00]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, I think the problem for them is that. And you remember this going back now a decade and a half, they were sold on this idea that America is becoming more diverse. And, you know, the. Some people call it the Browning of America. And they thought that we're gonna get 70 to 80% of these brown and black people. So the march of history, this is, you know, is inevitably in our direction. And if we can just grease that along a little bit with some more illegals. This was their entire game plan. So it's like you go into the super bowl, you know, this is your game plan. They don't have another game plan right now. I mean, think about it. They're the party of crime. They're the party of running the economy into the ground. They're the party of coddling Islamic Jihad, open borders, antifa, even the trans cause, which is very unpopular. So they would need to do a whole kind of rebuilding. And the rebuilding that is obvious to create a centrist party that would challenge, that would try to occupy the center, appears politically impossible for them.
- [54:15]
Dave Rubin
Because even though you wouldn't be part of that party, would you be happy if that party could reconstitute itself? It strikes me that although I won't vote for that, it would be nice because it would be healthier for America as opposed to having a radically anti America sort of pro crime, open border loony bin. It would still be. It would be healthier for America if it was something centrist.
- [54:38]
Dinesh D'Souza
I agree. For this reason that even though it would be more difficult to beat that party.
- [54:43]
Dave Rubin
Right.
- [54:44]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's what I mean. The problem now is that every time we lose, we put the whole country at risk. Because it's kind of like. It's kind of like you and I are alternating in driving a car and one of us is a complete psycho. And so it's like we can't afford to. To put the psycho at the wheel ever. Because look what Biden did in just four years. I mean, the level of wreckage and every day new information comes out, right? They gave $87 million over here and they were, you know, they were. They were promoting like, sex changes in Brazil. $45 million.
- [55:18]
Dave Rubin
My director, Connor loved that trans comic book that they paid for in Peru. That's his thing.
- [55:23]
Dinesh D'Souza
So, yeah, so, yes, in a way, what that would do, what we're talking about would do is it would lower the stakes a little bit. We would be a little more at ease if we lost, and we would have a more responsible debate.
- [55:37]
Dave Rubin
Right. That's funny. It would make us less hysterical. If you people would just calm down and not be completely insane. We would be by default. We would be a little less crazy. To whatever extent they think we're nuts.
- [55:49]
Dinesh D'Souza
We are now forced to do to them a little bit of what they've been doing. We don't want to do it, but we don't know another way to stop them. I mean, look, if Trump doesn't go about prosecuting some prominent Democrats, they will continue the lawfare the second they get back into office. So we have to do tit for tat, but we would rather not do tit for tat. We would rather you don't get this kind of police state operation mobilized in the first place.
- [56:15]
Dave Rubin
Speaking of police state Democrat operative who masquerades as a impartial journalist, Jake Tapper over on cnn, he had Temu Obama on Watch this.
- [56:25]
Dinesh D'Souza
How they characterize it, Characterize it is you want to give health insurance to undocumented immigrants. I understand that's not really an accurate depiction, but what it does do is it's a lie. It's a lie. But what you support does bring back funding for emergency Medicaid to hospitals, some of which does pay for undocumented immigrants and people who don't have health insurance. And also there is this provision, and it's not about undocumented immigrants, it's about people with asylum seekers and people with temporary protected status, et cetera, et cetera, but about their ability to get Medicaid. So they're non citizens, they're not undocumented, they're not illegal. Why even include that in a bill knowing that they're going to seize right upon that and use that to message.
- [57:10]
Dave Rubin
I think you caught it. Cause we were both laughing at the same time. But you can't. I mean, what Jake did right there, he said, well, it's not in there. But it's in there.
- [57:17]
Dinesh D'Souza
But it's in there. And not only that, but he had the little bit, you know, that you probably shouldn't have done this because Republicans are gonna pounce on.
- [57:25]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, I know.
- [57:26]
Dinesh D'Souza
Not because the idea is bad, but because Republicans will take political advantage. So Jake does his best to. And Jake's a fellow Dartmouth guy, you know, so. But Jake.
- [57:36]
Dave Rubin
Oh, so UFO to go easy on him.
- [57:37]
Dinesh D'Souza
No, no, I don't have to go easy on him. He was after My time, and I didn't know him, but he does his best to run cover for these guys. And it's so obvious. He's almost like a press secretary. Sir, do you really want to be saying this in the speech? You might want to tone it down a little bit so you can see the open collusion here between the media and the Democratic Party.
- [58:00]
Dave Rubin
The guy wrote a book about a cover up that he parted took in. You got to kind of admire the chutzpah. Yeah. That is serious. Here's Donald Trump just actually telling the truth. Everything will be destroyed because no country has enough money to take care of that. So they want the illegals. They refuse to get away with open borders. They want to do open borders. If they ever got in, they'll open up the borders. We have closed borders now. You only come into our country legally, but they would open up the borders in two minutes of any. And you understand. Understand it better than anybody because you've covered it so well for so long. Even though you're a young guy, you've covered it very well. They want transgender for everybody. They want men and women's sports. They haven't learned what happened in the last election. I think they forgot. And it's pretty amazing, actually. But in terms of the dollars or the money that we're talking about, they want us to take care of illegals. They want us to take care of people that can absolutely get a job. They're healthy and strong as you can be and young. And this is not what this was all about. It seems to me, Dinesh, that Trump is now better than he's ever been. That I think it's sort of what you said before. He's more comfortable. He gets the game a little bit more. He's speaking off the cuff. It's clear nothing he said there was too complicated. You don't have to think very hard about it, like, do we want the border? Do we want the trans stuff? And they simply do not. I guess the closest thing they have to an adult in the entire party is John Fetterman, and he's basically on his way out.
- [59:29]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. Trump is now this kind of formidable combination of having learned a lot. So there's the knowledge component, but the other component, steely determination. I mean, he's like Mel Gibson in the Patriot. I mean, Mel Gibson in the beginning is like, leave me alone. I don't really want to get involved, but at a certain point, you've messed with me enough and you've messed with my family enough. It's Like, I'm now the guy who wanted to be left alone, but now you're gonna be hearing from me in a very bad way. And Trump is on a rampage.
- [60:02]
Dave Rubin
Yeah. And I just think most people hear an interview like that where it's clearly him, it's clearly what he thinks. That's in such stark contrast, certainly to Biden Auto Pen, certainly to Kamala, that. That people just basically can get on board. But more importantly than any of that, we'll talk about the memores in just a second. But first, Rumble Premium. This episode is brought to you by Rumble Premium, the home of free speech and exclusive content from Voices that Matter. With Rumble Premium, you get ad free viewing, access to exclusive shows and premium features across the platform. We're talking about Steven Crowder's mug club, Tim Pool's Tim cast, and Russell Brand's raw commentary, plus tons of other bold creators you won't find anywhere else. Whether it's breaking news, real talk, or the content that challenges the narrative, Rumble Premium puts you in the front row. Support creators who actually say what they mean and mean what they say. Go to rumble.com premium rubin to join today. That's rumble.com premiumrubin because the truth shouldn't come with a filter. I just want to be absolutely clear. You did use the bathroom, right?
- [61:04]
Dinesh D'Souza
Okay.
- [61:05]
Dave Rubin
It was the bathroom. All right. So the other part of all this is that the meme wars have burst forth. We showed you the video, of course, there's two videos now of Donald Trump putting Hakeem Jeffries in a sombrero, which somehow is racist. Although if you go to a Mexican joint for dinner tonight and order margaritas and you tell them it's your birthday, they will put you in a sombrero. So I don't know how it makes it racist.
- [61:24]
Dinesh D'Souza
The holidays can get hectic, and having.
- [61:26]
Dave Rubin
Omaha Steaks in my freezer has been a total game changer. I recently cooked up their filet mignons. Incredibly tender, juicy, and packed with flavor.
- [61:35]
Dinesh D'Souza
From weeknight dinners to holiday hosting, Omaha.
- [61:37]
Dave Rubin
Steaks makes it easy.
- [61:39]
Dinesh D'Souza
Right now, during their early Black Friday.
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Dave Rubin
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- [61:43]
Dinesh D'Souza
An extra 20% off select favorites. Save big with Omaha steaks. Visit Omaha steaks.com for 50% off site wide and an extra 20% off select.
- [61:53]
Dave Rubin
Favorites during their early Black Friday sale.
- [61:55]
Dinesh D'Souza
And for an extra $35 off, use.
- [61:58]
Dave Rubin
Promo code Flavor at checkout term supply. See site for details. That's 50% off at Omaha steaks.com promo code flavor@ checkout. Here's speaker Johnson on the meme wars.
- [62:10]
Dinesh D'Souza
Many of you asked me this morning about sombreros and memes and why Hakeem.
- [62:15]
Dave Rubin
Jeffries is all alarmed by that.
- [62:16]
Dinesh D'Souza
Look, these are games. These are sideshows. People are getting caught up in battles over social media. Memes we've got to keep. This is not a game. We've got to keep the government open for the people. I don't know why this is so complicated. And to my friend Hakeem, who I was asked about, man, just ignore it. I mean, Gavin Newsom was trolling me last night. He painted me like a minion. He painted me yellow with big glasses and overalls, and I thought it was hilarious. You don't respond to it. For all my friends, for all my friends, Rs and Ds don't respond to it. Get to work, do the people's business, and let's get on with it.
- [62:50]
Dave Rubin
Actually, let's just go right to Gavin Newsom's incredible meme work. This is a man who wanted to make memes illegal two years ago. We'll have more on that in just a second. But he has now memed Mike Johnson, and my God, this is hard. Started hitting. What's that? Oh, sorry. This is the JD Vance One. Go.
- [63:05]
Dinesh D'Souza
If you're flying today, I hope, of course, you arrive safely and on time, but you may not arrive on time because the TSA and the air traffic controllers are not getting paid today. Our military is not getting paid today starting today. And obviously, the longer this drags on, the worse that it is for the American people.
- [63:23]
Dave Rubin
So, Gavin, put that one up. I want to show you a tweet. This is Gavin Newsom in July of 2024 for manipulating a voice in an ad like this one should be illegal. I'll be signing a bill in a matter of weeks to make sure it is. Okay. Gavin Newsom's a hypocrite. Okay, fine. Is what it is. The meme component of this, it is worth discussing because to me, a meme is worth a thousand words. It's how we communicate these days. It's how you can get an idea across very quickly as opposed to the long form conversation. But Mike Johnson, right, basically, which is, get over it, guys. The fact that the Democrats are running around going, you put a sombrero on me. This is racist. People just can't take this anymore.
- [64:04]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, first of all, it's funny on his face because Mike Johnson is like the most staid, straight laced guy in America, and he's giving us sort of instructions on all this, I was thinking back to a generation ago when I was first starting out in politics and how the memes of those days were sound bites. But people, they recognize that you go on Fox News, you go on cnn, you need to give sound bites. But the value was never in the sound bite. It was always in what lay behind it. And so as a result, you had a lot of think tank guys who were called upon, Charles Krauthammer, because Charles Karanhammer would say a sentence or two, but you knew there was a lot behind it. I think what's different in our culture now is that the memes are free floating. They survive on their own, and people have developed high skill in producing a meme, but it's just a meme. There's nothing behind it.
- [65:01]
Dave Rubin
So would you prefer, I mean, this is what I was trying to unpack earlier in the week is like, would you prefer that Trump not do any of these things? Because to me, for him to, like, there's some version of, of the world, some alternate piece of the multiverse where I'm like, I wish Donald Trump would just not do any of that stuff. But then in the world we live in, it's like, it's a part of how he was able to accomplish anything, everything. So to, so to ask him not to do it just seems kind of crazy.
- [65:28]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, it's not only part of our culture, so in that sense, it becomes a tactical necessity. It's also part of him. It's the furniture of his mind. I mean, if you go back to his posts going back to like 2007 or 8, you know, you have, you know, you'll have Beyonce, you'll have something going on with Whitney Houston. He irresistibly has to comment. You know, Ariana Huffington, you know, her husband left her for a gay man. He made a good decision. Again, is this necessary? Of course not. But Trump doesn't believe that your public communication should be limited to what is strictly necessary.
- [66:08]
Dave Rubin
One more from Tax Network usa, and then we will talk about the oncoming communist disaster in New York City. Do you owe back taxes? Did you forget to file for an extension? The October 15 deadline is fast approaching and time is running out. If you haven't gathered your documents or made estimated payments, the IRS could soon come after you. And when they do, they can garnish your wages, freeze your bank accounts, or even seize your property. But there's help. Tax Network usa, a nationwide tax firm, has already helped taxpayers save over a billion dollars in tax debt. They filed hundreds of thousands of returns and assisted thousands of people in reducing what they owe. And they can help you, too. Don't wait. Visit tnusa.comdave or call 1-800-958-1000 for a completely free consultation. In just one short call, the experts at Tax Network USA will walk you through a few simple questions to see how much you can save. Take action now before it's too late. That's tnusa.com dave or call 1-800-958-1000. All right, so according to Polymarket, as of this morning, communist, I would say Jihad adjacent Zorhan Mamdami is likely to be the next mayor of New York City. I want to show you one clip that we showed you earlier in the week of him on the View and then an ad he put up yesterday, which you might actually need a bucket to puke in while we're everyone should get your bucket now while we show you the View thing, because you're going to need it. But first, here he is, Sarah Haines on the View asking him a bit about Hamas and all that stuff.
- [67:34]
Dinesh D'Souza
Just this week, you were evasive with a reporter about condemning Hamas.
- [67:38]
Dave Rubin
Given New York has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel, why should voters.
- [67:44]
Dinesh D'Souza
Who see this as a moral red.
- [67:46]
Dave Rubin
Line trust your clarity and judgment? Well, I really appreciate this question and.
- [67:50]
Dinesh D'Souza
An opportunity to just clear up, I think, a number of misconceptions. You know, first and foremost, you're right. I am running to be the mayor of the city. And this city will be the focus.
- [67:58]
Dave Rubin
Of my administration, ensuring that we make.
- [68:00]
Dinesh D'Souza
This a city everyone can afford and everyone knows that they belong to. And also millions of New Yorkers, myself included, care deeply about what's happening in Israel and Palestine.
- [68:10]
Dave Rubin
And so to be very, very clear.
- [68:11]
Dinesh D'Souza
Of course I condemn Hamas. Of course I've called October 7th what it was, which is a horrific war crime. And of course, my belief in a universality in international law is also the.
- [68:21]
Dave Rubin
Same set of beliefs that have led.
- [68:23]
Dinesh D'Souza
Me to describe what's happening in Gaza as a genocide. Because what we see, what we see is a war crime being answered with war crimes. And what we see is every single hour, the Israeli military killing a Palestinian child for close to two years.
- [68:43]
Dave Rubin
And it's a horror that many New.
- [68:45]
Dinesh D'Souza
Yorkers feel so deeply.
- [68:48]
Dave Rubin
It's extraordinary. I mean, the amount of words to just give. Drivel, utter drivel. But I would say more than anything, first off, I don't think he, in his heart, condemns Hamas at all. I don't think he is upset about what happened or anything else. I think he's going to be horrible for the Jews, all that stuff. Okay, people get that. But his comment about the International Criminal Court strikes me as that should be completely disqualifying to be a member of the United States government at any level. If you are a member of the United States government, you swear an oath to protect the laws of the United States, States of America, not an International Criminal Court which holds no jurisdiction. But it's packaged with his half whisper and all of his fancy language. And it sort of makes sense to people apparently.
- [69:31]
Dinesh D'Souza
Exactly. I mean, the kind of. There's a sort of suave style that he uses which conveys to me this, that, you know, it's. It's part of the reason I think we were very blind to the threats from communism in the past. We always expected that they would come in the form of a Stalinesque guy with a heavy overcoat speaking in a Russian accent. If jihad comes to America, it's going to look like Mamdani, you know, I hesitate to say, but if it comes with a right wing and endorsement and as you know, even Tucker's been talking somewhat more benignly about Sharia, like safe streets. Who wouldn't want that, you know? So again, if jihad comes to America, it will be a chubby, all American young guy talking about it and making it sound like it's as American as apple pie. The underlying and insidious fallacy of all this, of course he's doing a moral equivalents, right? War crimes over here. We don't want to do more crimes to. But think of it more like this. If somebody does a home invasion on you and they destroy your house, they kill your wife, they rape your daughter, they blow the place up and then they run away and you desperately grab your gun, you chase them, they all jump into a van and they have.
- [70:55]
Dave Rubin
Your sister, by the way, and they.
- [70:57]
Dinesh D'Souza
Have your sister hostage. There you go. And then they all come out with their own families and they put it in front of you and they go, you can't shoot because that would make you a murderer. And so what's going on here? And I look at it this way. It is the bad people putting the good people in an impossible position. It is the dragon, to use the meme of my film, it's the dragon making good, putting good in an impossible position in its battle against evil. Even though it's very obvious that you, the home invader, are the one who is putting your family in jeopardy, you are making them human shields. You are responsible for what happens to them. All this is kind of like swept over or swept under the rug by Mamdani. So the jihadis in Syria and Afghanistan look like him, but he is their export. And in that way. And so jihad is coming to America, but it's coming to America in an American in American jeans and an inverted baseball hat.
- [72:09]
Dave Rubin
And it's being packaged by a guy like him who grew up with wealth, who grew up in a Hollywood family. They're giving it low music and a soft lens and a commercial that he put up yesterday like this. Do we have our Ilhan Omar puke bucket in case Dinesh needs it? Could you get that over here while we. Okay, go ahead. You deserve better.
- [72:32]
Dinesh D'Souza
You deserve to be able to raise your family here, to be safe, to.
- [72:37]
Dave Rubin
Travel where you need to, free of costs and worry.
- [72:40]
Dinesh D'Souza
You deserve someone who works as hard as you do, who thinks about you.
- [72:45]
Dave Rubin
Every second of the day.
- [72:46]
Dinesh D'Souza
That's the kind of mayor I promise to be. New York, will you accept this rose? Paid for by Zoron for nyc. Give me a minute.
- [73:03]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, I'll.
- [73:05]
Dinesh D'Souza
Oh, Dinesh, I might need a nap.
- [73:09]
Dave Rubin
And I mean grotesque. It's grotesque. And it's obvious what they're doing. I would liken that, actually to the previous clip where whatever he said, where the women start applauding in the back, you know, what was it that they applauded? Did they applaud Progenis? I don't even know what they were applauding, but.
- [73:23]
Dinesh D'Souza
Well, they were applauding the international law. Oh, right.
- [73:25]
Dave Rubin
That's right. And it's the same thing. It's something about the mind of liberal women. Those are New York. Everyone in that audience, basically, these are New York City, City liberal women. He's about to usher in the destruction of your city. They're going to burn down the Upper west side where you live. Joy Behar. And he's got a rose.
- [73:46]
Dinesh D'Souza
No, exactly. I mean, here we've criticized the Democrats and said they don't know what they're doing. Part of the ingenuity of the Democrats is that they are able to ruin cities and yet convince the residents of those dilapidated ruins to keep them in power so that they can do some more. Now, that's not easy to pull off. Right. It's like empty buildings, homeless guys on the street, people picking your chicken wing off your restaurant, your plate at a restaurant. You think people would be like, enough. We don't want that. And then Republican cities. I mean, I went to Chattanooga to give a speech a few months ago. Beautiful place, wonderfully managed, not a homeless guy in sight. There's no trash on the roads. And I'm like, I know I'm in a red city now. There are more blue cities than red cities, but the red cities that exist are by and large, nice places to be.
- [74:46]
Dave Rubin
Dinesh, the film is the Dragon's Prophecy. It was absolutely wonderful. It was a piece of art. You know, there's. I always say on the show, there's nothing new anymore. There's nothing. We don't see anything that inspires you or anything. I really, really enjoyed it. I also love the fact that you're releasing it on locals and you've released your last couple films on locals, which.
- [75:02]
Dinesh D'Souza
Is proud of Rumble, Locals and Rumble.
- [75:04]
Dave Rubin
So. Yeah, but that. That a piece of technology that I, that I created then became the avenue that you used to release these films is. Is unbelievably meaningful to me. So I thank you. The link to the film is down below. It's good to see you, my friend.
- [75:17]
Dinesh D'Souza
A pleasure. Good to be here.
- [75:21]
Dave Rubin
Great. Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [75:33]
Dinesh D'Souza
Jeff Bridges. Why are you still living above our garage?
- [75:36]
Dave Rubin
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So. Dana.
- [75:43]
Dinesh D'Souza
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [75:55]
Dave Rubin
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [76:02]
Dinesh D'Souza
Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [76:04]
Dave Rubin
T mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on UP plus with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [76:13]
Dinesh D'Souza
Dude, my work here is done.
- [76:15]
Dave Rubin
The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklab Speed Test Intelligence data 1H2025 Visit t mobile.com.