← The Rubin Report
The Rubin Report
The Real Reason Everyone Just Realized What Democrats Really Are | Stephen A. Smith
01:14:34
Loading summary
Transcript153 lines
- [00:00]
Stephen A. Smith
In the summer of 1994, four teens entered an abandoned building in Gravesend, Brooklyn. It was the last time they would be seen alive. With few clues and no witnesses, the case went cold. But for Anthony Brewer, the brother of one of the victims, the search never stopped. In 2024, he acquired evidence from the police that contained DNA samples that didn't match the teens. That discovery put his life and the life of his family in grave danger. Goosebumps the Vanishing all episodes now available on Disney and Hulu on Disney.com rated TV 14 LV I tip my cat, tip my hat to the Republicans, to the conservatives out here and what they did in this last election. Again, I did not vote for Donald Trump, unlike people that suddenly turned around and kissing his ring and, you know, trying to feign like they're suddenly a supporter of his. No, I did not vote for him. But I gotta tell you something, I'm not mad he won. I'm not mad he won because when I see, especially in the aftermath of the election, some of the things that transpired with the democr, you know, in an effort to manipulate the election and vote, it really ticked me off. You can't sit up there standing on your pedestal, pretending to be paragons of virtue and pointing out all that ails our country because of the conservatives and the right and then turn around and provide all the ammunition in the world for us to look at you and say, how are you? Much different.
- [01:35]
Dave Rubin
New Floridian. Stephen A. Smith.
- [01:38]
Stephen A. Smith
What's up, buddy?
- [01:38]
Dave Rubin
How you doing?
- [01:39]
Stephen A. Smith
How you doing, man? Nice to finally meet you. How you doing?
- [01:41]
Dave Rubin
This is the first time that we're meeting in person.
- [01:43]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, sir.
- [01:44]
Dave Rubin
But you've been on my show roughly 5,000 times.
- [01:47]
Stephen A. Smith
And why is that?
- [01:48]
Dave Rubin
Because we play clips of you. I'm going to start talking like we.
- [01:51]
Stephen A. Smith
Play clips of you talking like this.
- [01:54]
Dave Rubin
About politics, what you're doing and all that stuff.
- [01:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Right.
- [01:57]
Dave Rubin
I thought a fun way to start the show, though, would be that you actually do what I wanted to do for a living, which was be a sports broadcaster. I wanted to be on ESPN way back when. And now you kind of do what I do for a living, which is talk about politics. And now we've kind of collided in this very weird thing. What do you make of that?
- [02:18]
Stephen A. Smith
I like the fact that you said kind of because I certainly don't look at myself as somebody, as an aficionado in the political sphere. I look at all of you guys, the Hannity's, the Mark Levins, you guys, Patrick Bet Davis, all of These people that I know and have become friends with over the years, Cuomo can't forget him and stuff like that. And I know that Megyn Kelly, who I'm a huge fan of, I know they know more than me. My attitude is that because of the world that I live in, because of the kind of issues that I'm exposed to and the fact that I'm a voice in my community as well, and I look at things and how sports intertwine with politics and stuff like that. The more you know, the more edified you are, and the better the possibility that you can bring rationale and reason to a dialogue and conversation with the people that I have to communicate with on a daily basis. So when that happened, all of a sudden people saw my opinions and said, all right, did you see what Stephen A.
- [03:16]
Dave Rubin
Said?
- [03:16]
Stephen A. Smith
And then they start commenting about it and then wanting me to come on their shows to challenge me. And my attitude is, listen, because of my opinions, because of the platform that I have available to me, the last thing I have a license to do is run. I'm not gonna do that. So when people wanna talk to me, as long as they know how to act like they have some damn sense and they wanna have a conversation, I'm happy to have it.
- [03:39]
Dave Rubin
Do you remember when it happened for the first time, when you really felt like you had to get into the political thing? Because I kid you not. I remember watching when you joined ESPN, I think, 2003 or so. I remember watching you going, man, this guy is supposed to be on tv, but it was still all about sports at that point. Do you remember when that shift. Really?
- [03:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Not necessarily. Because I've always been somebody from my newspaper career days, where if you showed me how politics into, I'm sorry, sports intertwined with social commentary more so than politics, I jumped at it. It was never that I ran from. Because I'm a little bit different than most. You have the black community, you have the white community, and sometimes there's a divide there. One of the greatest women I've ever known was a white woman who happened to be my grandmother. And so my grandmother was a white woman who taught me what racism is and what racism looks like. And so a lot of times when I'm looking at white folks and you have folks that'll look at folks and they'll say, racist bastards. They don't get it. They don't understand, whatever. Sometimes I'm like, no, that's not what they're saying. They're talking about you. They're not talking about black people or they're talking about this issue, that doesn't mean they feel that way about that issue. And my ability to dissect and compartmentalize and not be ultra sensitive to every single syllable that comes out of somebody's mouth, I think puts me at a decisive advantage because I'm able to have dialogue with folks that may think differently than me, come from a different background, and actually see their point of. So even when I disagree, I'm not put off or offended by it because I understand where they're coming from. And I'm like, okay, I get it. It makes sense.
- [05:22]
Dave Rubin
Well, you said to me, right when you sat down, he said, dave, you've criticized me sometimes right in this room. And. But the entire time, because I try to never attack people's motives or their person, it's like, okay, I see what Steven's doing here. Don't necessarily agree with that. But I always said, let's sit down and talk about one day.
- [05:39]
Stephen A. Smith
Absolutely.
- [05:40]
Dave Rubin
And now here we are. So let's back up for a second, because you are new Florida man. You escaped? I escaped three years ago. You have escaped.
- [05:47]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, I have.
- [05:47]
Dave Rubin
What caused the escape?
- [05:50]
Stephen A. Smith
Cold weather and high taxes. You have the order.
- [05:54]
Dave Rubin
Is that the order?
- [05:55]
Stephen A. Smith
That is the order. That is definitely the order, because. Born and raised in New York. Born. Born in the Bronx. Raised in Hollis Queens, New York, since I was 1 years old. Went to school down in Winston Salem State in North Carolina, but obviously that's the east coast, eastern region. And it gets cold down there, too, just like it gets cold in New York. I just got over the cold weather. I had a house, a beautiful house in. In. In North Caldwell, New Jersey. And I. Nice pool in the backyard. And I can only use it two months out of the year because the weather wouldn't allow me to. That kind of pissed me off. And so you look at it from that standpoint. You say, listen, I want to utilize this property that I have available to me. I don't want, you know, anywhere from nine to eleven and a half percent of my money going away in state income taxes. And then you got the city taxes, and that doesn't even count federal tax, income tax. I'm like, man, the hell with all of this. I'm so sick and tired of it. Then I go in. The finishing touch for me was California, because I have to go out to LA a lot. And I am a fan of. I should say, listen, I like Gavin Newsome, the governor of Florida. From the standpoint, as a person, like, in Other words, comment said in this room. Nice. Nice person to talk to because I've had conversations with him in the past. Highly intelligent individual, looks very sharp and very presidential in those suits. And then you see what's going on in California. Like, nah, that's not. That's not me. These high taxes, the homelessness, the crime rate, et cetera. I'm looking at all of this unfolding because you have to remember I've been going back and forth to LA and New York a lot pretty much since 2003. And so I see that, and I see the regression that has taken place. And so when people are going off, particularly folks on the left, and they're talking about these policies and what policies are better and what's not, and then I see folks on the right talking about real life issues and stuff like that, I'm like, I hate to admit it, they make a lot of sense. They make a lot of sense because I'm here, I'm pulling up to the gas station, the price of gas. I go to the super market for myself. I'm not one of those dudes that just send people to go. I go, I know what. I know what the price of milk is. I know what the price of eggs are. I know these things. I pump my own gas. Unless my guy is with me, my security, I pump my own gas. You know, I see the prices of this stuff. I'm like, what the hell is this? You know? And so I look at things from that standpoint, and when you hear people talking about practical, practical things, and then I saw folks on the left basically trying to guilt me into voting for you, it bothered me. I might have ended up voting for Kamala Harris because I didn't like how Trump acts. But what I didn't do was call him a racist. I didn't call him a Nazi. I knew Trump before he ran for president. Yeah, we talked on the phone. We talk at basketball games or boxing events. I knew this man. And so some of the things that were being said about him, I knew were not true. And I was saying, come on, y'all, you got to do better than that. And I look at all of those things, and all of those things contributed to my ultimate move to Florida, because I said, it's time to think about me more and stop being guilted into looking at things through their lens. And that's where I'm at.
- [09:02]
Dave Rubin
So you got a little more money in your pocket now? Yes, you can. You can be in your pool 12 months out of the year.
- [09:08]
Stephen A. Smith
I'd say 11. It's a little cold today.
- [09:10]
Dave Rubin
Today.
- [09:10]
Stephen A. Smith
A little cold today. I say 11 months. Let's. Let's go with 11.
- [09:14]
Dave Rubin
You are here literally on the coldest day of the year, but it's like. It's like 60 degrees.
- [09:18]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right. It didn't feel. But see, when you. When you're accustomed.
- [09:21]
Dave Rubin
We'll get that pool tonight.
- [09:22]
Stephen A. Smith
When you're accustomed. When you're accustomed to being in 85 to 90, that 60 feels like 40 when it first hits you.
- [09:28]
Dave Rubin
Right. But you're here in Florida, the free state, and it works. And. And do you wonder how we're paying for roads and the rest of it? I mean, we managed to do it without.
- [09:36]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, it's big on tourism. There's no question about it. It's worth touring this state. I've had some issues with DeSantis and some of the things that he has said in the past, but there is no doubt that the people of Florida spoke and spoke defiantly in adamantly in the last election, the midterm election where everybody else was losing and that red wave didn't happen. That certainly happen.
- [09:57]
Dave Rubin
Yeah.
- [09:58]
Stephen A. Smith
And so when I look at it from that standpoint, I just say, give the man credit where credit is due. I didn't like his comments about benefits to slavery and stuff like that. I spoke out against that. But there's a difference between speaking out against that and speaking out against him in totality, sir. I don't like this. I don't like that. And shame on you for even trying to go that route.
- [10:19]
Dave Rubin
You're talking about the comment where he basically said slaves were able to learn truth.
- [10:22]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right.
- [10:23]
Dave Rubin
So there were some positivity.
- [10:25]
Stephen A. Smith
Don't want to hear that. Don't want to hear. You can't say something like. And listen, I'm a fan of Jesse Waters. I think that Jesse Waters does an outstanding job on Fox News. I think that he was the right man to succeed Tucker Carlson, no question about it. And I've been a guest on his show before, but I was very disappointed in his support of that and anybody's support that matters. Because I'm saying there's certain things, if you're not black, just don't touch it. I'm not a Jewish person. There are certain things I don't touch because I don't know. You understand? I can't possibly put myself in their shoes and think for them about how they should feel about something. Certain things you just don't touch. And that's exactly what I had said about Jesse Waters at that time, along with Governor DeSantis, I was like, certain things, leave it alone. You're not going to convince people to see the light in that regard. There's certain things that you just can't say.
- [11:17]
Dave Rubin
So. So if we were just really trying to, like, whittle that away, you would argue pretty much that there's probably a grain of truth to that in. In learning a trade. Now, see, I'm sort of doing what you're sort of saying don't do, but let's just.
- [11:29]
Stephen A. Smith
And I'm saying that. And I'm saying that you actually.
- [11:31]
Dave Rubin
But it's just. It's just like, don't bother is what I'm saying is.
- [11:34]
Stephen A. Smith
What I would say to you, respectfully, is if we look at the Jewish community, they never hesitate to remind us about the Holocaust and how devastating it was to their people, period. You're not trying to discover a positive remnant from that. Okay? Show the same respect to black people when it comes to slavery. People were tortured, they were killed, they were raped, they were maimed. All of these things transpired courtesy of slavery. Don't come to me with something positive about. About it. I don't want to hear it, you see? So you can look at something and you could say, no matter what, the subject matter is a remnant of benefit, an incremental benefit here or there. You can deduce in somebody's mind's eye what, you know that to be the case. That is not how black people view it. There's nothing you can say to us that would convince us that there were positive elements of slavery. And here's the biggest thing. Even if there was one in our eyes, we want to hear it from us. We don't want to hear it from somebody that's not black. And if we have other communities that have their issues and they feel that way about it and it's respected, then respect black people enough to not intervene or ingratiate yourself into that kind of conversation. That's basically all I was saying. I wasn't going any further than that. It was just saying I wasn't calling Governor Santos or Jesse Waters out their name. I wouldn't do that. What I'm saying is you're not black. There's certain things that you leave alone. That's one of those things I thought they should have left alone.
- [13:07]
Dave Rubin
Threading that needle and trying to kind of make sense and get people from both sides to hear it, that's probably the most challenging thing. Whether you're doing Politics or sports these days, right?
- [13:18]
Stephen A. Smith
Absolutely, I think so. Because people, it's become volatile and I tip my hat to the Republicans, to the conservatives out here and what they did in this last election. Again, I did not vote for Donald Trump. Unlike people that suddenly turned around and kissing his ring and, you know, trying to feign like they're suddenly a supporter of his. No, I did not vote for him. But I gotta tell you something. I'm not mad he won. You know, I'm not mad he won because when I see, especially in the aftermath of the election, some of the things that transpired with the Democratic Party, you know, in effort to manipulate the election and the vote, it really ticked me off. You can't sit up there standing on your pedestal, pretending to be paragons of virtue and pointing out all that ails our country because of the conservatives and the right and then turn around and provide all the ammunition in the world for us to look at you and say, how are you much different? Even today? We're sitting here today, it's in the immediate aftermath of him being certified as the 47th President of the United States. The inauguration takes place January 21st. We're sitting here and having a conversation. Not me and you. I'm just talking about what they were doing yesterday. Having a conversation about the insurrection. Yeah. Now, let me be very clear. I believe it was an insurrection. I don't believe everybody there was insurrectionist. I don't believe everybody there engaged in lawlessness. But to those who did, they deserve to be punished.
- [14:56]
Dave Rubin
If you broke the law, that you.
- [14:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Broke the law, you broke the law. Having said that, there does come a point in time to move on. I am completely disgusted that Judge Mershon. Is that how you pronounce his name? What the hell are you doing? We're still going to sentence the President. Really? Really. What you going to do? You'll put him in jail? Yeah. You know you're not going to put him in jail, Right. Okay. What are you going to do with him? You'll find him. You'll find the President of the United States. Really going to do that? Okay. How does that benefit us as a nation? You lost. Move on. Now it's time to move forward. So when we talk about, you know, folks that are serving time, I'm not going to sit here and advocate that they be released. What I'm going to say to you is that if the president, president, soon to be president, says they've suffered enough, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. If we're moving forward. We're moving forward. See, to me, that's an effort to keep us back. You lost. You got your ass whipped in the election thoroughly. You lost the White House, you lost the Senate, you lost Congress. You already lost the Supreme Court before he left office. All right? Courtesy of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Not necessarily totally from the standpoint of a 6 from the CUZ, you still would have had a 5, 4 majority. But this is a woman, God rest her soul, who was a Supreme Court justice who had every opportunity to retire. You were suffering from cancer, your health was ailing. You knew that Obama's administration wanted you to step away so he could insert a liberal into the courts, into the Supreme Court. You knew this and passed. Why did you pass? According to the reports, why did you pass? Because I want a woman to be the one that chooses my successor, assuming that Hillary was going to win. How dare you do that? How dare you put. If you truly believe this country needs to tilt a certain way and you have millions upon millions of people who support that thinking, how dare you think about just yourself and talk about I want a woman to provide, to pick my successor. You don't. You can't make that assumption. You got to take what you got. Ego. Ego. Legacy. Why am I doing that? I'll bring it home for you. What do they talk about with Trump? He go legacy. He cares about Trump. He cares about his legacy. The hell with the benefit of the country. Well then why have you given us this ammunition to look at you and say, the hell with everybody else, I wanna do what I wanna do? Are you not guilty of the same kind of things? And that is the way that I think and that is the stuff that I pay attention to because I've had politicians call me and try to convince me me to think a certain way and speak a certain way. And when you pick up the phone and call me, I'm talking about me, Dave. When you pick up the phone and call me, I better not look at you and think you're a liar. Yeah, I better not look at you and think you full of it. Because then I don't like you because you didn't have a decency to stay away. You actually called and tried to influence me and turns out your ass was hypocritical. People like that, that, that those are the kind of people that incur my wrath.
- [18:05]
Dave Rubin
Do, do you think part of your ability to do politics and culture the way you do it is because sports has rules? You come from sports and sports has rules. And There is obvious right and wrong and, and playing the right way and cheating. You say all those things.
- [18:18]
Stephen A. Smith
You say rules. I say meritocracy.
- [18:20]
Dave Rubin
Yeah.
- [18:20]
Stephen A. Smith
Somewhere along the way, you got to compete.
- [18:22]
Dave Rubin
Yeah.
- [18:23]
Stephen A. Smith
And we gonna find out who you are. You're a boxer. You can talk all the junk you want. You got to get in that square circle. Now, you understand saying you're a basketball player. You have to get on that court. You're a football player. You're going to have to get on that field. You're going to have to go and get somewhere. At some point, you're going to do it. And I give you an example.
- [18:37]
Dave Rubin
Or your dad has to be on the Lakers.
- [18:38]
Stephen A. Smith
How about that? But that's, that's just to get him on the Lakers. He ain't playing now.
- [18:42]
Dave Rubin
Okay, so let's remember, last minute, they're down by 30. Air ball, hook shot.
- [18:46]
Stephen A. Smith
No problem. No problem. But he did well in the G league and I wish him nothing but the best. But I had no problem with Bronnie James coming on to the Lakers for one game. To have that moment with your father at that moment, he should have said, said, now I gotta go to the G league and earn my way here as opposed to remaining on the team, traveling with the team and things of that nature. But that's a subject for another day. But to answer your question directly, I would tell you, I would remind you of what I've been known to say about baseball. As much as this is America's national pastime, I don't like baseball for one reason and one reason only. I despise intentional walks. You get a salary just like everybody else. You're a professional baseball player like everybody else. You ain't pitching for free. If, if, if, if Mike Trout rolls up, if sh. Otani walks up to that plate and Mookie bets or Aaron Judge or somebody walks up to that plate, get your ass on the mount. Step up and get him out. That's your job. To me, being able to intentionally walk him is bypassing the competition.
- [19:47]
Dave Rubin
Yeah. How do you feel about Hackishack in the NBA when.
- [19:50]
Stephen A. Smith
I didn't like that either. I didn't like that either. Deal with him now. The man's of Mammothy 7133, 40 at the time. And I get that part. And you were fouling him because he struggled to the. At the free throw line. But even though I didn't like that, he didn't help himself because he was a 52% shooter from the free throw line in baseball. You're literally in the. He still had to go make the free throws. In baseball, you're literally bypassing a batter, and I don't like that. So when the whole election thing came out, prior to the election, I said, I want to hear all of this. Go beat Trump. Go beat him. Don't talk to me about, he's not showing up for a debate. The Republican, the conservative voters out there made it very clear we don't want nobody but Trump. We don't want Nikki Haley. We don't want Ron DeSantis. We don't want Vivek Ramaswamy. We don't want, you know, Chris Christie, who's a friend of mine. We don't. We. We don't want these people. We want Trump. So if they said that, Think about that for a second. That's entirely different. 2016, Bernie Sanders gaining traction, gaining momentum. It's Hillary's turn. Biden had to be saved by Clyburn in South Carolina. Okay, I'm looking at it, and I'm saying the last true Democrat that the people have spoken about and wanted was Barack Obama. Everything else was shady since 2012. 2008, 2012, everything else was shady. And I'm like, go beat this man. Two. Two impeachments, 34 felony convictions, and, you know, and they still coming. What you gonna do about it? This man has been a Republican nominee since 2016. In the last nine years, nobody in the conservative community has thought about anybody else, figuratively speaking, of course, other than Donald Trump. You can't come up with an opponent in nine years. That's pathetic.
- [21:40]
Dave Rubin
You know, you can say all you want about the Republicans and their dysfunction, but it's like these guys ran a primary, at least.
- [21:45]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes.
- [21:45]
Dave Rubin
Democrats didn't even. I supported DeSantis in the PR. I was very happy to vote for Trump, but it's like they did the process right, the Democrats. You pushed Sanders aside. I don't like Sanders.
- [21:54]
Stephen A. Smith
Push Sanders aside. In the 2024. What did you do to Biden?
- [21:57]
Dave Rubin
Literally, you.
- [21:59]
Stephen A. Smith
A year. Yeah, before. A year before his poor performance on that debate stage. June 27th, I was on the air on my podcast, the Stephen A. Smith Show. I was like, yo, y'all, he missing something. He can't be. He can't be the Democratic nominee. Look at him. There's no way. And I think that one of the more shameful moments that I've ever experienced watching politics is when I saw the left, who describes itself as a progressive party. That means you're forward thinking. Think about that. That's what they say progressive means. Last time I checked. Last time I checked, even when the cliff is over there, that's what they say. They are at the state of a union dress chanting four more years for a guy they knew was going to be 82 years old at the time of the election. I'm like, do you have any idea how embarrassing this is? He's going to be 82 and you're chanting four more years. You couldn't come up with anybody that was a better adversarial figure than Joe Biden before the debate. Then the debate comes, right? We now know you held him out, you hit him, and then you waited till it was right long enough right before the Democratic National Convention, and you put him on the debate stage, expose himself clearly debilitated. And as a result, we had no choice but to get behind Kamala Harris. Now, again, for me, I was against Trump because of his behavior. We don't need commanding tweets. We don't need somebody this pettily going after, you know, folks for no reason. We don't need the chaos that existed in the country, you know, in the latter part of his presidency. So I was the kind of person where I wouldn't vote for, I didn't vote for him, but I didn't mind voting for other Republicans in the House or the Senate or having the House split. Cause I don't like, I'm one of those guys. As a registered independent, I'm very, very uncomfortable with one party rule. I don't trust it. I don't. I like checks and balances. And that's just my thoughts. So if you're a Republican in the White House, House, I want to see at least 1, 1, 1 segment of the House with Democratic. Under Democratic rule, you're a Democratic president. I want to see at least one, you know, whether the Senate or Congress being Republican rule, that's how I am. But folks clearly went too far. And I think that it got to a point where people were literally scared. And this is when I suspected. I said, you know, something? Everybody's talking about this is going to be a tight race and maybe it's going to be me, but one of my best friends is a staunch Republican, lives out in California, my high school buddy, Jeff, and he said to me, democrats protest. They scream, they holler, they protest. They make a lot of noise. He said, we just go to the polls. He said, us conservatives, we just go to the polls. He says, Stephen A, you watch. He said, people ain't saying anything because they Scared they're gonna lose their job, they scared they're gonna lose their friends. They scared they're gonna get into some kind of confrontation with somebody because of Trump or whatever. He said, folks, going to get quiet watch on election night. And he called it. And he said, and I remember Frank Luntz, noted poster, I spoke at his class at West Point. He asked me to come up because he teaches at West Point. And I went to speak there. And I'm very familiar with his work. Obviously, his reputation precedes him. And he was talking to me about how it might take days to resolve this election. My boy in California, Jeff Brown, said to me, sting, we'll know by two in the morning, you can book it. He said, this is going to be a romp. He called it. And sure enough, he's the kind of guy to go to bed at 7:00 LA time. You understand what I'm saying? He stayed up just to call me. Didn't I tell you? And I said, he called it.
- [25:55]
Dave Rubin
So what do you make as a guy that comes from, I would say firmly, both worlds? Now you come from the mainstream ESPN world and now you're in the podcast, so you're in the wild west with us. But also in the corporate thing, you're seeing both those. You have businesses in both of those, relationships in both those. What do you make of the type of newscasters and all of the mainstream media people who were part of the lie the entire time? Because, you know, I'm sure, you know a lot of these guys privately. And one of the things I'm always trying to figure out when I'm, you know, when Joe Scarborough is up there going, joe Biden's never been better two weeks before, you know, he stepped down.
- [26:28]
Stephen A. Smith
Never been better.
- [26:29]
Dave Rubin
I'm always trying to go, well, all right, so what is his motivation?
- [26:32]
Stephen A. Smith
You shredded. You shredded your credibility. And I'm a person that. Joe Scarborough has been very, very kind to me throughout the years, and I don't root against him or Mika Brzezinski. They've done a phenomenal job throughout the years. For the most part, what happened was, is along the way, they became partisan. You can be partisan in how you feel. You can't be partisan in what you disseminate. When you're calling yourself a newscast, right?
- [27:07]
Dave Rubin
Unless you call yourself something else, I never say, I'm a journalist.
- [27:10]
Stephen A. Smith
You can't do that. You can't do that. For me personally, I know that. I've been a journalist most of my career. Yes, I'm A pundit, I'm a commentator and all of this other stuff, but my journalism never leaves me. So I'm incapable of being flagrantly and intentionally unfair. I cannot do that. I think it violates everything that I'm supposed to. Supposed to stand for. Now I can gather facts, and based on the facts, I can tell you how I feel because those facts support how I feel. What I can't do is intentionally avoid facts because it doesn't fit my agenda. And I'm going to disseminate that message to the masses as if I've been objective and truthful. I cannot do that. I'm incapable of doing something like that. I would never do that.
- [27:54]
Dave Rubin
So have you ever had a moment where you maybe have an athlete that you're friends with and maybe they're BSing about an injury or just something where, where you don't want to criticize them? Exactly. Because you're friends with them, but now you're on air and you have to call it straight.
- [28:07]
Stephen A. Smith
And I've called it straight. Yeah, listen, I've called for people to be fired that were friends of mine. It broke my heart. I never get. Years ago when I had to do that with Isaiah Thomas, I had tears in my eyes when I had to call him and tell him, I'm going to call for you to be fired tomorrow. Because the sit. The Knicks situation was so bad.
- [28:24]
Dave Rubin
That was terrible.
- [28:24]
Stephen A. Smith
It was so bad. It was like. And then they had lost. I never forget as long as I lived, they had lost a game by 45 to the Boston Celtics. And it was so bad. But I also knew there was so many things that was going on with him personally that had nothing to do with basketball, that he didn't need to be coaching. But still, in all knowing how much that position meant to him and knowing that I had to call him to tell him that. It's hard, you know, with players that, you know, that, that, that take certain positions and I just don't agree with them. I might know you personally and whatever, and I'm never going to violate your trust by divulging personal business and personal con that you've had with me. But that has nothing to do with me disseminating how I feel about an incident that you might be involved in. Draymond Green comes to mind. Draymond Green is a good man. He's a four time champion. He's a future hall of Famer. He's one of the best people I know. But when he got himself ejected and ultimately suspended, it's like, damn, man, how many times can somebody come to your defense? You can't keep doing this. You know, you're hurting yourself, you're hurting your team. You can literally make a legitimate argument that the warriors have at least one more title and they're in the playoffs last year. If Draymond Green doesn't get himself ejected in those years that it happened because he's that important, well, me pointing that out upset him. Me calling them up about it upset him. And we haven't spoken since. And I understand it. I respect it. You're entitled to your feelings. But I'm also this way. If you are willing to own and he is that guy, he's a man's man, he will own up to his responsibility to things and what have you. But if he feels salty, he still holds on to that. And if that's how you're going to do it, fine. Because I'm the kind of person that I want real friends. I don't want friends that all of a sudden don't become friends because, you know, we find ourselves in a disagreement, and all of a sudden that defines our friendship. Wait a minute. Now you're trying to tell me how to feel? Now you're trying to tell me how to think? Nah, I wouldn't do that to you. You're not gonna do that to me. And so I sleep well at night, knowing what kind of human being I am and where my soul resides and the kind of humanity that I have inside of me because I know that I don betray trust. I know that there are lines that I don't cross, but I am entitled to be a free thinker and to say, based on this evidence that you put forth in front of the masses, not like it's your private business in the bedroom or something. I went out and told, no, you're performing in front of millions of people. This is the position that you took. I'm allowed to comment on that. That's my job.
- [31:12]
Dave Rubin
So with that in mind, did you, as you've been more outspoken on the political stuff, say in the last eight months or so, you know, especially pre election, any relationships break in your life not coming from your side, but coming from somebody else?
- [31:25]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, I say to you, I wouldn't say any rel. There have been no relationship breaks. I would tell you that there are contemporaries that have muttered about me behind my back, thinking, I don't know. And they called me a Trump supporter, even though I didn't vote for Trump. They called me a pawn. I mean, black people Calling me a sellout or a coon because I get along with a few conservatives or whatever. They kept forgetting, getting. I've always been a registered independent. There are Republicans that I have voted for in the past, and there are Republicans I will vote for again. There are certain policies that I don't like, and I'll speak out about that based on what they are. And there are certain policies that I support, and I'm not going to look at it the way that they want me to look at it. And then you have people in the world of sports, Steve Kerr, for example, coach of the Golden State Warriors, a great Popovich, head coach of the San Antonio Spurs.
- [32:21]
Dave Rubin
Pop's done a lot of damage, I think.
- [32:22]
Stephen A. Smith
Think to what?
- [32:24]
Dave Rubin
To. To sports, to basketball.
- [32:26]
Stephen A. Smith
You can make that argument. I. I think. I think I saw Patrick bet David making that argument. Yeah. Very valid. And I text him, I said, very, very valid. Because the NBA is a business. And as Michael Jordan once said, Republicans buy sneakers, too. And so when you look at it and you see a guy speaking so adamantly, you can speak against Trump, fine. But you need to understand that you went a bit further than that, and you were speaking against Trump supporters. Yeah. White people specifically. And how dare. And how dare those people support Trump. But wait a minute. You're crossing the line. Because, listen, I sit across from Sean Hannity, right? Sean Hannity. He'll sit at the. And tell you I'm a conservative, right? Because of some of the views that I have, and he'll get on there. He's the only guy that you could do an interview with on your show, and he talks more than you. I mean, he's unbelievable. He doesn't give you a chance to finish a question. He's crazy, Right? But I love him. But here's the deal. When he says, it's the economy, stupid, he's right. When he says national security should be a priority, he's right. When he says our borders should not be open, he's right. He's right. So I pride myself on being a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Live and let live. I don't care what you're doing. LGBTQ community. I support all of their rights, but don't tell me that that includes you transitioning from a man to a woman and going up and playing in women's sports, like boxing in the Olympics, where this girl gets her face beat in and she quits and she says, I've never been hit that hard in my. Telling me that testosterone levels or whatever it is, didn't measure up to. And then people are going off on Megyn Kelly. I'm like, megyn Kelly's not wrong.
- [34:22]
Dave Rubin
She's actually taking the feminist position.
- [34:25]
Stephen A. Smith
She's actually taking a feminist position. But here's where you can push back on the liberals. Years ago, y'all got on us. Now, obviously, it might have been issues involving domestic violence and other things where women were drastically effective. It might have been inequities in the workplace in corporate America. It might have been, you know, women's salaries compared to what men would get paid. And all of this other stuff. All of that's true. Women, women, women. You want us to fight on women's behalf. But she's pointing out how a woman got beat up in the boxing ring in the Olympics by somebody that everybody believed that ultimately was proven DNA wise was a male. Yeah, and she's the villain for pointing that out. How, you know, if you want me to go up against a Dave Rubin or Megan Kelly or somebody, could you come up with a better example? Because I'm not disagreeing with them about that. That makes no sense. And so for me, when I see that and we get to a point where we're not even thinking about the issues. We're thinking party and we're thinking ideology, and we just want to shove aside the facts. I'm not down with that. I'm going to listen to the people that have the facts, and I'm going to say, okay, who's right? Who's wrong on a case by case basis, and I move forward.
- [35:40]
Dave Rubin
So when you hear a pop or a Steve Kerr or one of these guys, and it doesn't even matter what the issue, but when you hear one of these guys doing politics, my audience knows. So I love basketball as much as you love basketball. I played my entire life. Told you that ball's from a 91 Blazers game right behind me. Like, I have a court here. Like, I play constantly. I love it. But I don't watch games much anymore because it became so political. And it's less now, but at the height of COVID and the BLM stuff, every time I turned on ESPN or every time I turned on TNT particularly, it was just like, racism, this, that, all these other things. And I was like, this is not why I watch basketball. And I basically, if you look at my YouTube thing, when I'm doing cardio, I watch old 90s games. I'm watching all the old Bulls games, basically. Do you. Does that. Do you worry at all that politics has become or that sports has become too infected by that and that it's going to be tough to ever fully separate those things.
- [36:29]
Stephen A. Smith
I would say that you have to worry about it if the numbers show that it's affecting the product and the support of the product. It's popular to say that the ratings have dipped. ESPN did Christmas Day games. We were up over 48%. We had over 5 million viewers averaged. They want to say it as the highest ratings we've had in five years. They want to turn around and say compared compared to the NFL. Well, nothing compares to the NFL in America. NFL's king. We get that. So they were on Netflix, 190 countries. But even in the United States, you going to watch football all day, every day before you watch basketball? Hell, I cover basketball and I watch football games before I cover basketball. Why? Because the basketball games are going to be there February and Beyond. Because it's 82 games in the schedule. Every football game matters week to week for 17, 18 weeks. So they've turned their sport into an event. It's a priority, and you get what you get. But as I said to the great one, the Mark Levin, when he asked me the damn near identical question to what you asked on his radio show a few months ago, I said, because he was complaining about Colin Kaepernick, but Colin Kaepernick took a knee. I said, mark, with all due respect, you don't think that's an overreach reaction? And he was like, what? What do you. Why would you say that? And I said, it was before the game. Did it stop the kickoff from happening? Did it interfere with the 60 Minutes that you came to watch? No. So sometimes I do believe there are people that have overreacted to the protests and stuff like that that took place. I'm not throwing any shade on this, on who I'm about to mention. We made so much noise about Colin Kaepernick. Do you know, before that, Marshawn lynch was seen on numerous occasions sitting on a cooler, eating a banana, banana while the national anthem was being played. No one said a word. So we're picking and choosing what to do. I called Trump out during that time. Why did I call Trump out to other people? It was politics. To me, it wasn't. I knew Donald Trump. I got a call from Donald Trump in 2014. He wanted to buy the Buffalo Bills. They would price tag was $1.4 billion. I was later told that he only had about one point. He wanted to purchase the Buffalo Bills and the NFL was getting his way. And his exact words Excuse my language, but we're here on the podcast. It's not FCC airwaves. And Donald Trump said. He said, if them motherfuckers get in my way, I'm gonna get them all back. I'm gonna run for president. Those are his exact words. And I've told that to everybody who would listen. I said, he warned us. And then the NFL would joke around and say, so it's our fault. And I'm like, yeah, it kind of is. You see what I'm saying? Because he wanted to become on. And so what did that have to do with Colin Kaepernick? Remember, the Supreme Court okayed sports, gaming and gambling in the world of sports outside of Vegas. And so you saw states rights coming into play. The politicians saw an opportunity. I'm sorry, the owners for the NFL team saw an opportunity to profit off of this. If you got less than 1%, less than a half percent of the sports gaming industry, that equates to billions, trust. Trump knew it, and he made life incredibly uncomfortable for all of them. And at that moment, they're thinking about Colin Kaepernick, and it's like, wait a minute here. You had at that time, go back to, like, 2017, 2018. Somewhere around there, the owners were giving their profits from the television deal, each of them $246 million. Plus each of them. Do you know, some of them were still complaining about Colin Kaepernick costing them about $10 million because the protests brought this kind of attention and it's affecting our product. They're thinking about the 10 million they lost, not the near 250 they gained in their pockets without that. That wasn't for the players. It wasn't something they could. This was for their pockets, and they were getting it. So it gave you insight into what he knew about them, what they knew about themselves, and how they didn't want the overall brand effective. What I would say. What I would say to Mark and Sean Hanley and all of these guys was, did it really have that kind of effect on you? Did it really, really mess with your willingness to watch the game? Because guess what? You didn't have to watch the National Anthem. Sometimes, if we're being honest, we're going in the kitchen, we're getting our snacks before we sit down and watch kickoff. We ain't even watching the National Anthem.
- [40:50]
Dave Rubin
What I was getting sick of was I thought that NBA on TNT was one of the best shows on television for 20 years. Funny, irreverent, like, all the stuff. They're great Guys, just what I wanted out of watching basketball. It's not too serious. It's all this stuff. And then it became about some of these guys who I love, who I love. And you just did the free throw contest for Kenny Smith. Yeah, guys. Guys that I love suddenly just only talking about racism. And I was like, just, damn, I don't want to watch this anymore. So, yes, it didn't affect the. The inside. The court, 48 minutes, but the other stuff started. And that also could be because I'm a media guy, too. So.
- [41:22]
Stephen A. Smith
You are a media guy, which is why I'm gonna push back on you.
- [41:24]
Dave Rubin
Yeah.
- [41:25]
Stephen A. Smith
Because you know good and damn well it won the whole show. They might have had a segment in the show, you talking about basketball for an hour, and for 10 of those minutes, you talking about the racism. I don't know. It was. There was plenty of basketball talk is what I'm saying. But let's call it what it is. It made white folks uncomfortable. And so. And let's also call it what it is in this regard. Black folks wanted you to be uncomfortable because we wanted you to get a taste of the discomfort that we. We wanted to crystallize it for you. When one of the analogies that I used when I was on first date, I would talk about George Floyd and the Officer Chauvin with his knee on his neck for over nine minutes. And to the credit of the Hannity's and the Levins of the world, there's no one hesitated to call out this officer and how he should have been indicted and ultimately charged with murder and stuff like that, because that's what he did. But the other side to that is I said it was a metaphor for what black folks have been feeling for quite some time. Like, there's this knee on your neck. There's always something holding you down. It could be you going to the job and doing negotiations and them holding you. The stipulations that they don't hold white folks to, that they are more stringent about you and what level of latitude and power they give you. You compared to what they do to your white counterpart. You can have. You see these kind of things transpiring throughout history, and you're saying, come on.
- [42:47]
Dave Rubin
How much of that do you think is relevant now? I'm not. I'm not denying that it has existed.
- [42:51]
Stephen A. Smith
That part that I just mentioned, I do think is relevant now. I still think that exists in America.
- [42:55]
Dave Rubin
Even despite corporate DEI and all of those things. You think they're still looking at black people and that in an average corporate atmosphere, not always.
- [43:03]
Stephen A. Smith
I'm not saying that. It always happens. I'm saying that. And I've said this to a lot of white people in America. When folks are talking about racism, if you know that you are guilty of the things that they're pointing out, we're not talking about you. A lot of times white folks incriminate themselves because of their interest in coming to the defense of other white people they don't even know because they think black folks are talking about everybody white. You're not talking about everybody white. You're talking about the system. The system and how the system operates against you and its power structure. Because there's you usually white folks in charge. And when you talk about diversifying a corporate entity, what you're really talking about is, all right, do it to my face. You're in this room amongst yourselves. Let's sprinkle some black folks in there, let's sprinkle some Hispanic folks in there. Let's see what you do right in front of our face. From a systemic perspective, would you act the same? Because if you wouldn't act the same in front of us, why do it behind our back? And that's how people are thinking and they're talking about it. The problem we face, the problem we have as a community, the system is victimizing us. And then you want to act like every individual you meet that disagrees with you is thinking that way too. I will remind you that during the civil rights era there were some white people marching with black folks. And if they didn't march with us and help us, included some Jewish folks as well, if they didn't march and assist black folks, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And others in their quest for civility, civil rights, equality, equality, we may never have achieved it. And so we understand as a people, it ain't just us. There are some good, decent, God fearing people that don't share our cultural or ethnic identity, that don't come from the same background, but are conscientious observers of God fearing individuals with good enough stuff in their soul to say, this is wrong, let's do something about it. And what I'm saying is, is that we know that. And when you make sure that you convey that message, it goes a long way. Which is why I think it's important that I sit across from a Dave Rubin, that I sit and talk to Mark Levin. I sat this morning and spoke to Sid Rosenberg. I talked. Sean Hannity, I'm just a call away. That's my buddy. We go back 20 plus years. Okay. But I also talk to Chris Cuomo, you know, and stuff like that. I'm a fan of Andrew Cuomo despite what people tried to say about. They railroaded him out of office. You see what's happened in New York State since. I'm looking at stuff like that. I don't, I don't. I can sit across from you because I know I'm fair and I know that I'm going to see the fairness in you. And if there's something that's unfair about, I'm going to point it out. I'm a big time fan of Bill Maher. Real time with Bill. Big time fan of Bill Maher. I got a lot of love and respect for him and I totally side with him 100%, calling out the liberals right now. He's got a soldier in me that's going to back him 100% because he needs it. He needs it and I'm right here and I'm here for it because he is right in terms of how far we go sometimes. And that's a problem.
- [45:58]
Dave Rubin
So let me ask you, because you brought up Bill, the two guys that I played most that I thought were sort of like sane liberals leading up to election, it was you and Bill. So almost every day on my show, Clip from you, Clip from him. What's going on with these guys? They're trying to fight the good fight.
- [46:10]
Stephen A. Smith
Even though I don't consider myself a liberal. But. Go ahead.
- [46:13]
Dave Rubin
But, but within.
- [46:14]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, I understand.
- [46:14]
Dave Rubin
Within, like a wide sense, something like that. I really thought, and I think I said on my show like two weeks before the action, I was like, I think Stephen A. Is going to vote for Trump. I knew Bill was not going to. I know him well enough. He was staking out that position. Okay, fine. And I can live with that and be friends with him, of course.
- [46:28]
Stephen A. Smith
Right.
- [46:29]
Dave Rubin
So you've mentioned it a couple of times that you didn't vote for him and tweets and things of that nature. What was like, was it really just at the end you were like, I just can't deal with the tweets because the tweets don't exist as much anymore. The name calling isn't quite as much anymore. And yet I can sense he has dialed it back.
- [46:44]
Stephen A. Smith
He has dialed it back to his credit.
- [46:46]
Dave Rubin
The way you described yourself before, fiscal conservative, you care about the border and foreign policy and one or two other things. Those are. Oh, and socially liberal. Liberal.
- [46:54]
Stephen A. Smith
Right.
- [46:54]
Dave Rubin
Those are all Trump things. So, like, what was the, Was there just Something else that was just a roadblock.
- [47:00]
Stephen A. Smith
Let's call it what it is. There's a lot of people that won't admit this. I'm gonna admit it. I was a bit misinformed. Let's call it what it is. And that pressure emanating from my community, I'm tired of it. I think that's one of the reasons you see me sign up Patrick. Bet David alluded to that as well, talking about me. And they're right. They're right because with Obama in 2008, I knew, I had the pleasure of knowing Senator McCain. I had my show, quite frankly, on ESPN2. I interviewed him for an hour, and he had kept in touch throughout the years. And there was only one reason I didn't vote for him. Because there was no way that a black man was going to be the Democratic nominee for the first time in American history. And I was going to go to the polls and pull that lever for somebody else. That was not happening. Now in 2012, I could feel differently. But 2008, because I had this conversation with many conservatives, I said, I got my guy, my friend that's a Republican to vote for Barack Obama. I said, they've had 43 presidents that had the opportunity to mess up. Can we get one? Let's see what he does.
- [48:15]
Dave Rubin
And I absolutely understand that.
- [48:18]
Stephen A. Smith
That's totally that told it. But John McCain was such a decent, good man in my eyes and my personal communication with him. There isn't another liberal alive that could have ran against him that I would have voted for ahead of John McCain. It had to be somebody as special in my eyes as Barack Obama. Kamala Harris was somewhat similar from the standpoint. She was a black woman. I thought that the Democrats would have an op, probably lose the House or the Senate, if not both. And my desire to have order, to have, to dissipate chaos, the chaos that I assumed would be forthcoming in a Trump administration, along with the fact that here was this woman, this black woman that finally had an opportunity to be in that position, I thought that she was somebody that could be swayed. So if you had to, Republicans in the House and the Senate, no matter how extreme left she may have appeared to be, especially with being caught talking about people in prison, being able to have sex change operations and all this stuff, I thought she was somebody that could be swayed, that she wasn't somebody that was going to have the power that we anticipate Trump will have. Trump just sat up there and turned two Republicans around. The vote for Mike Johnson. Okay, we, we We. We see that.
- [49:39]
Dave Rubin
As of this morning, we're renaming the Gulf of Mexico. How about that?
- [49:41]
Stephen A. Smith
How about that? I mean, this is. This is Trump. And I. I certainly didn't see her having that kind of power. So it was safe. It was safe. I'mma tell you, when my mind almost changed, I had already voted down here. When Barack Obama spoke to those black men in Pittsburgh and alluded to misogyny being the reason that they weren't voting for Kamala Harris, I was highly offended by that. I was highly offended by that. And I remember this. I think his name is Officer Tatum. He has his own podcast and stuff like that. Yeah, he's a buddy, you know. Right. And I don't know him. I've never met him, but I look forward to meeting him one day. But I remember how he was going off about that and was totally right. I was like, the nerve. The nerve. Because. Wait a minute, I can't. You go on the View and they ask you, is there anything about Barack Obama. I'm sorry, not by Joe. President Biden, that you found wrong? Anything that you would do different? I can't think. You can't think of anything with 12 and a half million people crossing the border? Really? You can't think of anything. You see homelessness in the streets, you see crime. You can't think of anything. You see inflation, even though the economy, they say, has improved. Whatever. That's your level of expertise. I can't speak to that. But I'm saying there was plenty of things you could have spoke on. Now, I know you didn't want to throw them under the bus, but. But when that happened and then Barack Obama spoke to black men and said that, I was so insulted. Had I not voted already. Wow. I might have voted for. That's how pissed off I was. I really was that upset because it was like, see, that's the nonsense. It's like, you can't do that to us. I mean, somebody has the right. Listen, racism exists in this world. Fairness, of course. Okay. I can't knock a white person that's struggling to pay their bills to say, I don't care about that. I just can't. If they're struggling to pay their bills, I can't blame them for saying, this is my concern, because I don't relate to that problem. I might not like it. I might wish that there was a heightened level of sensitivity, but I can't blame you. I. I can't look at our country and see American citizens of all ethnicities saying, so we don't have any money for the poor and the desolate amongst us, but we got prepaid credit cards we could give out in New York. We got borders that we can open to let 12 and a half million people in illegally. We got billions to give Ukraine, but we don't have anything to help the poor and the desolate amongst us. I can't knock American citizens for looking at that and saying, what the hell is going on? Why is this happening? And then where I get mad is when people say, like, I remember Sage Steele, my former colleague at ESPN, who I'm a friend with. I like Sage Steele a lot. Sage is good people. And Sage has been victimized because of her conservative tilt. There were people, I'm not talking about at espn, I'm talking about overall in our industry who didn't appreciate her intelligence and didn't appreciate her conservative tilt and her own path in life and how she may have. I've always been friends with Sage Steele. I don't always agree with her, but for the most part, she's never senseless. She's a highly intelligent and accomplished journalist in this industry that did a damn good job for us for many years.
- [53:30]
Dave Rubin
And she didn't talk about any of that stuff until they forced her to talk about.
- [53:33]
Stephen A. Smith
I understand that, but I'm saying that when people were getting on her, how she clapped back because her, the Candace Owens of the world, and various other black conservatives, for example, I know where they're coming from from this perspective, of course, they, they come back and they bite at you because they've been bitten at all of these years with very little recourse, very little means to exact, you know, whatever level of retribution they so chose. Verbally, of course. So I'm sensitive to that. But in the same breath, when they look at me and they say, here comes Stephen A. And about Tom. What the hell you mean about Tom? I've been saying this. I've always been this guy. The same guy that's in front of you now is the same guy that was here last year, the same guy that was here five years ago, the same guy that was here 10 years ago. When people would sit up there and try to talk about Sage, there's no what you talking about her for what she do to you. She can't believe what she wants to believe. If you feel so adamant about it, why don't you debate her? Why don't you go to her and tell her what you feel and why and see who has a better point, you or her?
- [54:36]
Dave Rubin
That's when they get pretty.
- [54:37]
Stephen A. Smith
You understand what I'm saying? Instead of bitching up and being scared to confront somebody, I was once on the scene. I brought up my guy, Jeff Brown, My friend, Ask Sage. I want put her. I once put her on the phone with Jeff. She couldn't believe I had a friend that was a conservative like this. She was shocked. I was like, yeah, yeah. I'm willing to listen to all sides and deduce a middle ground because I think compromise is very, very important because no one ever gets what they want, ever. Everything they want, that is.
- [55:06]
Dave Rubin
What else do you want in your career at this point, now that you're sort of, you're in both worlds and it's working.
- [55:12]
Stephen A. Smith
I want what I have.
- [55:12]
Dave Rubin
You're in both worlds of not only old school media, new school media, but politics, culture, like, it's, it's kind of all there at the moment.
- [55:18]
Stephen A. Smith
I want to be a voice, voice of reason. I want to be a voice that anybody from the right and left or left field, they can talk to. Would I mind my own political show? Not at all. I'm not after it. I think it's something that could happen. My YouTube show, my YouTube channel is more than enough. I've been doing it for about, you know, people think I've been doing it for two years. They keep forgetting that the first year or so I wasn't allowed to use my own name and I wasn't allowed to be on video. So really, having over a million subscribers in 20 in 20 months is pretty damn good. I think that it's going to continue to grow. That's not going anywhere.
- [55:56]
Dave Rubin
So ESPN has no control over your digital.
- [55:59]
Stephen A. Smith
It's 100% mine. It's 100% mine. And I'm sure they would like to say. I'm sure they would like to, but that that's not something that I'm surrendering.
- [56:07]
Dave Rubin
Do. Do they ever get on you for something you say over there?
- [56:10]
Stephen A. Smith
That. No, not at all. I mean, the closest that that ever came to is when, you know, a couple of black folks that work ESPN had a problem with when I made the. I made news because they said I related Trump to crime in the black community. I said, that's not what I said. I was on Cuomo's show a half hour earlier, and then I went on Sean Hannity show the Same Night about 45 minutes later on Fox News, and they both asked me the same question. Why do you believe. We know you're not voting for Trump, but why do you believe black Folks who support Trump are supporting him, and they pointed out how Trump said, you know, they relate to him. I said, he's not lying about that. I said, some of them do feel that way because they look at our system and they feel like the knee is on your proverbial neck holding you down and willing to villainize you at every turn. Black folks do feel that way. So when Trump, Trump said it, there are some of them that absolutely do feel that way. That was what I said. And they tried to twist it into something else because it was politically expedient for them to do so. And then people got upset at me because I apologize. I said, let's understand what I apologized for. I apologize for any misunderstanding that may have been absorbed from what I said. I'm not changing what I said.
- [57:37]
Dave Rubin
We played your apology and I made a point of agreeing with your apology because not have apologized for what you said. It was about the freaking frackings around.
- [57:47]
Stephen A. Smith
Exactly. And so I don't back up from what I say unless I. Unless I'm proven to be wrong. And I'm like, all right, yeah, you got me there. That's true. But outside of that, I'm not backing up. This is the world that we live in. And I think that there's a lot of conservatives everywhere, there's a lot of liberals everywhere, and I think it's important to recognize this, too. People better be very, very careful about how they talk about Trump. And here's why. Because people who voted for him, whether it's maga, Right, or just conservatives, they absorb it as if you're talking about them. Why? Because the left talks to you like they're talking about you. Just because you may have voted for him. They could be a colleague and contemporary, they could be. Be a friend, they could be a family member, they could be your boss. And for people to castigate other individuals just because they feel differently than you without having any kind of discussion whatsoever is cowardice. It's cowardice. Like I said, I've been on your show, all the people I've mentioned, even Megan Kelly, because you know how sharp she is and had me on her show or whatever, but I wasn't scared because I know I'm fair minded and I know that if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. And I know that I don't look at people like they're the devil just because they disagree, agree with me. I don't. I don't have that. And I'm the same guy that set up there. I ain't smoking any weed with Bill, Ma. But I might as well because I got a damn contact tie, you know, hanging out with him for two hours and stuff.
- [59:15]
Dave Rubin
Two hours, I said.
- [59:16]
Stephen A. Smith
Believable.
- [59:17]
Dave Rubin
By hour three, I did smoke weed.
- [59:19]
Stephen A. Smith
With him, but, man, I had Hennessy and Coke and then he had me that week. I kept blowing it in my face like Snoop Dogg does. And all I. I said, I'm not responsible for what I've said because I'm high. Yeah, because I was.
- [59:31]
Dave Rubin
I mean, this guy and he smoked the good stuff. That's right. That's not normal.
- [59:34]
Stephen A. Smith
But I love. But I love. I love being on the show, but I love what he stands for. I love what he represents. And to answer your question, I mean, would I like to do a show like that myself one day? Sure I would. Sure I would. I wouldn't want to compete with him because I think he's the best, number one. And number two, I think what he does is so vital to the conscience of our country. I wouldn't want to mess with what he's doing because that's how much respect I have for him. But I definitely want to. I definitely love the role that I'm playing in the world. World of sports. I love how sports and social commentary and politics intertwine. The fact that I'm not running from any it. Any of it. And I just love the fact that I have all of those platforms at my disposal at this particular moment in time. And with me being in a situation where my contract is coming up, I think it's ideal for me to remain this way.
- [60:21]
Dave Rubin
Let me just do one or two more, and then I want to shoot some hoops with you because I'm not.
- [60:24]
Stephen A. Smith
Shooting lefty, but like, well, you might. You gonna beat me? I have. I haven't shot since then. Well, that was a week and about a month ago. And I think. I think Kenny would have beat me if he shot right handed. But hell with that. I won and I'm taking it.
- [60:37]
Dave Rubin
The man was a professional basketball player in high school. What would you say the worst part of all of this is? You know, you get sniped at, you get the. The nonsense, the rest of it. But you've got fame, you've got money, you've got success and all, and that you wake up every morning, I have no doubt. It's like me you have to do every day and it's great and you love it. What would you say? Like, the biggest pain point is people.
- [60:59]
Stephen A. Smith
Characterizing you and character assassinating you. But what they don't realize is that they messing with the wrong person. Number one, because I can take it raised as a journalist, you're not here to be liked. You do your job and you do what you're supposed to do and you make sure that you're true and authentic to your audience. That's number one. And number two, I'm at a place and point in my life and in my career where I can reach out and touch anybody I want to, any damn time I want to. And if they want to bring the rain, they came to the right place. Place. I can bring the rain right back anytime I want to. It's just that for the most part, I don't desire to. I have better things to do with my time than clap back at insignificant people who are using my name to get clicks. You know, somebody like yourself and others, you don't have to do that. You know what I'm saying? You've established your own platform, your own audience, and your own cache insignificance. But there's a whole bunch of people out there. Just look at when they mentioned, no.
- [61:52]
Dave Rubin
It'S a cottage industry.
- [61:53]
Stephen A. Smith
Just look at what they do when they mention my name compared to when they're talking about anything else.
- [61:57]
Dave Rubin
Oh, wow, we're gonna combine our haters.
- [61:59]
Stephen A. Smith
How about that? And so clearly, it's like they're doing it to get clicks or whatever. They're insignificant in the grand scheme of things. And plus, I can reach out and touch them anytime I want to. I just choose not to. Knowing that you have the power to do that, that helps me. I remember Bob Iger, the CEO of Walt Disney, who's a mentor and a friend, once said this to me, and I'll never forget, I asked him, I said, they're attacking you. I know this is false. I know that's false. How do you take this? And he looked me in my face, face and he said, it's real easy to do when you're the one who knows the truth. They're talking about me. You understand? They're not talking about something that. This is what he's saying. They're talking about me. They're not talking about something that I'm oblivious to. They're talking about me. I have the facts. So at any given moment I can expose them for what they are if I so choose. And knowing that I have that ability because I'm the one with the information, information allows me the sanctity and security to sit back and say nothing and just watch people talk about what they don't know. And that's resonated with me.
- [63:02]
Dave Rubin
You'll probably appreciate this. When I first started getting hate, you know, like 10 years ago or so, they used to always lie about what I was saying, and that would bother me. And then about five years ago, I was like, wait a minute. They're not lying about what I'm saying. They're just repeating it now. They're criticizing me, but they're at least saying what I'm saying. I was like, that actually says something.
- [63:18]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right. Deal with that. Exactly. That's a big deal.
- [63:21]
Dave Rubin
I got one more for you.
- [63:22]
Stephen A. Smith
Sure.
- [63:22]
Dave Rubin
And then we'll get outside. Third grade. Stephen A. Smith. Was he in math class talking like this, or did that just appear out of somewhere at some point when you got on espn, how did it happen?
- [63:33]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, first of all, I was in fourth grade. In third grade. Third grade.
- [63:37]
Dave Rubin
Third grade, yeah, the transition was in fourth grade.
- [63:39]
Stephen A. Smith
Third grade. I got left back.
- [63:41]
Dave Rubin
Yeah.
- [63:41]
Stephen A. Smith
I had a first grade reading level. I had what you would later call undiagnosed dyslexia. But I went to summer school, got promoted back to my right grade. I went to fourth grade that September, did the fourth grade, and then got left back again, this time held back the entire year. And I had a reading comprehension problem. And it was a really, really big deal. And so, you know, I told this story in my book, Straight Shooter, New York Times bestseller. I'm very proud of that. I wrote it myself, did the audiobook myself. And my father was in the kitchen and he just. My mother was very concerned about me because I was on the back porch crying. I was embarrassed because the neighborhood. I was the only one that got let back. The neighborhood house, queens all knew. Everybody knew it was me that got let back. And they was just out front laughing at me. And it was a very, very painful experience. I'm 57 years old. I still remember it as if it was yesterday. And my father was in the kitchen with my mother. And I'm on the back porch, and there's a screen there, and you could hear everything. And I can look right through it. And he said, the boy just ain't smart. He ain't gonna be anything. Just get. Just accept it. Janet. That was my mother's name, by rest of soul. And he said, he ain't gonna do anything. We know it already, so just accept it. And my mother turned around and saw me and was just aghast that I saw him say that about me and stuff like that. And she was so worried about me. And she was how I would feel. And I said, and I was devastated. It hurt like hell. But there has been no greater source of inspiration for me in my entire life than to make sure there was no truth to what he would say. And so my older sister Linda, a childhood buddy, a friend of the family named Tiverton as well, they would vacillate back and forth, teaching me how to read and write. And from that point forward in my life, wherever I went, I grabbed. And in the seventh grade, I think this is the moment that changed my life. There was a professor, there's a teacher, social studies teacher named Mr. Caravan. And Mr. Caravan looked at my mother, parents, teachers night, and he said, your son is not stupid, not at all. He said, he doesn't listen. He drifts with things he's bored with. He can't even tell you what you said because he didn't hear you. Because he just floats away and he's thinking about other stuff, he said. But when he is locked in and he is zeroed in, he said, if you can get that out of him, you will have a star in your hands, he said, because when we talk about politics, when we talk about social issues, your son is the best in the business. That's what he told my mother. And I heard it right in front of him. And it was like an epiphany. Like, wow, somebody said, I'm smart, Somebody said, I'm great. You know, the whole bit. And then I said, okay, so what do I have a passion for? And it would be sports. And so I would start reading about sports and all of this other stuff, and I comprehended it with ease. And then I was able to go to my father, who was a big baseball fan. He got from a point to not respecting me, to not appreciating me, to asking me to watch the games for him and tell him and interpret for him what transpired. And that's how I knew my future was in sports. But where the social commentary came in was because anytime there was an issue, it was always debated in my house. My parents were West Indian parents. I had four older sisters. I had a whole bunch of aunts and uncles and cousins that would all debate these issues. And I would read up on it and to show my intellect, I would debate against them. And once I found that as a kid, I was able to debate with adults, and adults were saying I was impressive. It completely eradicated any fear that I had. So once I ultimately graduated from high school and then college and I knew sports, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm the expert. I'm the one that's covering this sport. I'm the one that was watching everything. I'm the one that talked to the players and the coaches. Nobody just outside here could tell me anything. And I'd go on tv and then all of a sudden it was like, I had no television training. So I only knew one thing to be me. This is what I noticed. How I feel come across naturally. And once I saw that, the audience gravitated to that. I said, I'm Stephen A. I'm. I'm. I'm that dude. And it's like, let's go, let's get it on. And from that point forward, I just moved forward and it never stopped there. And when I'm on camera, for better or worse, anybody has different. I'm just telling you how I feel. I don't believe that when I'm on camera that there's anybody that wants to see anybody more than they want to see me when they talk about everything. The Michael Jordan to this, Michael Jordan to that. I consider myself that guy on television. I just do. You put me in front of the camera, I'm going to make it sing. I'm going to make it happen. You're going to listen to me, you're going to hear what I have to say. And you going, my words are going to be memorable because my presentation and my articulation is going to be up to snuff. And that's just how I feel is to win. One thing in life that I have zero insecurity about. It's the only thing. Insecurities reign everywhere else. But when I'm in front of the camera and when the lights come on, I believe I'm the best in the world. And I don't think anybody could tell me otherwise. I just feel that way. And I have no fear of, no concern of anybody I'm with. Which is why I told a whole bunch of conservatives when they've asked me what dreams I've had. I have no desire to run for office. I'm not a politician and want to shake hands and kiss babies and depend on your vote because of it. But the one reason I want to be a politician is because the one thing I want to do in life, I'd give anything to be on a debate stage for a presidential election. I wish. I don't care who it is, like, put me up on a debate stage. Got to know the issues. Got to know the issues. But if I know the issues, you can't convince me that anybody will resonate with an audience better than me in a presidential election. That's the only reason that I ever thought about wanting to run for office. Because of being on a debate stage. That's it. And I happen to be on a debate stage every day on espn. So I guess I got part of my dream.
- [70:09]
Dave Rubin
Man, I wish we would have recorded this one, huh?
- [70:13]
Stephen A. Smith
Thank you, buddy. My pleasure, man.