The Real Reason Lincoln Was Hated Before He Ended Slavery | Presidents Series | Glenn Beck

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Real Reason Lincoln Was Hated Before He Ended Slavery | Presidents Series | Glenn Beck

Podcast: The Rubin Report
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Glenn Beck
Date: February 17, 2026

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Overview

This engaging episode, part of The Rubin Report’s Presidents Series, features Glenn Beck for an in-depth conversation about Abraham Lincoln’s legacy, complexities, and controversial reputation—before, during, and after he ended slavery. The talk goes far beyond the “bumper sticker” understanding of Lincoln and draws fascinating parallels between Lincoln’s existential challenges as president and today’s political and social dilemmas. The episode also touches on Beck’s new project leveraging AI to bring the Founders’ beliefs directly into modern discourse.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Glenn Beck’s AI Project on the Founders

• Genesis & Mission: Beck introduces an innovative AI called “George” that’s trained exclusively on founding documents up to 1820, designed to revive and contextualize the Founders’ arguments for today’s debates.
  • “This is all proprietary. This is not ChatGPT or anything else. And then we fenced it off so it cannot pull from anywhere else.” – Glenn Beck [03:56]
• Technical Safeguards: Strictly isolated from the modern internet to preserve historical intent.
  • “It will not be hit by outside influence...it remains pure.” – Glenn Beck [05:47]

2. Lincoln’s Troubled Early Life and Character Development

• Family Trauma: Lincoln’s boyhood marred by abuse and neglect from his father; pivotal influence of his stepmother encourages his education and moral development.
  • “His father was nasty drunk...would beat Christ into you, beat the scriptures into you...” – Glenn Beck [06:41]
  • “Later said, everything I am, I owe to my mother. And that’s who he meant.” – Glenn Beck [07:32]
• Faith Journey: Lincoln’s complicated relationship with religion, only becoming “a Christian” at Gettysburg, marking a defining transformation in his presidency.
  • “I wasn’t a Christian when I was elected president...I became a Christian at Gettysburg.” – Glenn Beck [08:11]

3. Gettysburg as the Turning Point

• Historic and Personal Impact: Lincoln’s deep emotional response to the aftermath of Gettysburg leads to a newfound humility and a call for a national day of prayer, fasting, and humiliation.
  • “He hadn’t surrendered to God until Gettysburg. After Gettysburg, he gets on his knees and he’s begging God, whatever you want...” – Glenn Beck [09:45]
  • “We lose every battle but one prior to this, we win every battle but one after the proclamation.” – Glenn Beck [11:48]

4. Lincoln’s Stance on Slavery and the Union

• Not an Immediate Abolitionist: Lincoln was anti-slavery but initially prioritized saving the Union over immediate abolition, influenced by John Quincy Adams.
  • “He was more concerned about saving the republic than anything else.” – Glenn Beck [14:25]
  • “John Quincy Adams gets him. And that’s the seed...that eventually grows into the Abraham Lincoln that [freed the slaves].” – Glenn Beck [14:01]
• Political Reality: Lincoln became the unlikely nominee partly due to convention deadlock, largely unknown and disliked at the start of his presidency.
  • “Nobody knows who he is, not a lot of people like him. But he wins and he gets into office.” – Glenn Beck [15:07]
• First Assassination Threat: Elaborate recounting of the Baltimore plot to assassinate Lincoln as he traveled to his inauguration.
  • “They get him into another carriage...He’s there before the assassins even show up to greet his train from Baltimore the next day.” – Glenn Beck [16:57]

5. Motivations for Preserving the Union

• Strategic and Moral Imperatives: Lincoln saw national preservation as essential to preventing the U.S. from being splintered or dominated by foreign powers.
  • “A national divorce, you lose everything that we are...Otherwise we would be divided up and eaten by foreign powers.” – Glenn Beck [19:10], [19:54]
• Emancipation Proclamation’s Timing: Also aimed to block France and Britain from supporting the South, not solely a moral act against slavery.

6. Lincoln’s Governance, Constitutionality, and Controversy

• Executive Overreach in Crisis: Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and enacted war measures, igniting accusations of dictatorship, especially among Southerners.
  • “He violated the Constitution at least three times, all on the same thing...my opinion, he was justified in doing those things.” – Glenn Beck [20:25]
• Team of Rivals Approach: Lincoln’s openness to dissent within his cabinet likened to political leaders who favor diverse perspectives.
  • “He surrounded himself with people that were different...that was a problem, but it was also, I think, his strength.” – Glenn Beck [22:10]

7. Changing Views on Lincoln in History and Popularity

• Polarizing Figure:
  • “He only won second term, I think, by 55%...He was just as controversial as any president.” – Glenn Beck [23:13]
  • “The black community, I mean, he’s like a God to the black community, at least at that time...Up until about the 60s or 70s or a lot of it is happening today where, you know, he can do no right.” – Glenn Beck [24:11]
• Modern Rewriting of History: The evolving narrative often casts Lincoln more negatively due to presentism.
  • “That’s just the rewriting of history in every which way and applying our modern morals to people of the past.” – Dave Rubin [24:29]
• Personal Relationships: Warm spotlight on Lincoln’s relationship with Elizabeth Keckley, a formerly enslaved seamstress and confidante to Mary Todd Lincoln.
  • “She closed her store and said, I want to work for the Lincolns in the White House...remarkable relationship.” – Glenn Beck [25:13]

8. Colonization and Moral Complexity

• Proposal to Return Freed Slaves to Africa: Reflects 19th-century anxieties, showing the limits and context of progressive thinking at the time.
  • “Let’s buy land. Liberia is actually part of this...That’s not Abraham Lincoln. I think that was just a common fear at the time and not a stupid fear.” – Glenn Beck [26:32]
• Judging the Past: Cautions against presentism, using abortion as a modern analogy to illustrate shifting moral judgments.
  • “Be careful on how you judge because there’s going to be a lot of this judging happening to us.” – Glenn Beck [28:44]

9. Lincoln’s Assassination: Human Details and Legacy

• Booth’s Motivation: John Wilkes Booth’s fury at Lincoln’s call for reconciliation directly leads to the assassination plot.
  • “When he hears, with charity toward all malice toward none, he loses his mind...That’s when he’s like, I got to kill him.” – Glenn Beck [30:36]
• Extraordinary Details:
  • Only known photo where Lincoln and Booth appear together, Booth’s dramatic escape and injury, the chaos in Ford’s Theater, and exploitation by others involved.
  • “When he falls, he breaks his leg. At the same time, Booth has other confederates and they’re trying to kill the Cabinet...Lincoln goes. They take him across the street eventually.” – Glenn Beck [31:54]
• Poignant Image: Black seamstress making Mary Todd Lincoln’s mourning dress as Lincoln lay dying—a symbol of personal and national transformation.
  • “Here’s this black woman who is with a president who...ended slavery. And she’s best friends with the wife and knows that the wife has to be wearing black by the time the sun comes up if he’s dead. And I just see her how she saw through the tears...making this dress all the way through the middle of the night.” – Glenn Beck [34:45]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gettysburg and transformation:
  “He hadn’t surrendered to God until Gettysburg. After Gettysburg, he gets on his knees and he’s begging God, whatever you want, tell me what you want. I’ll do whatever you want.” — Glenn Beck [09:45]

• On Lincoln’s complexity:
  “He was more concerned about saving the republic than anything else...people want to make it about slavery or states’ rights. For Abraham Lincoln...it was about keep the union together.” — Glenn Beck [14:25]

• On the risks of presentism:
  “Be careful on how you judge because there’s going to be a lot of this judging happening to us...” — Glenn Beck [28:44]

• On Booth’s motive:
  “When he hears, with charity toward all, malice toward none, he loses his mind. He actually runs down the stairs and tries to choke Abraham Lincoln to death that day.” — Glenn Beck [30:36]

• On the night of Lincoln’s death:
  “Here’s this black woman who is with a president who was trying to save the Union, but then an icon saved her people and ended slavery. And she’s best friends with the wife...making this dress all the way through the middle of the night.” — Glenn Beck [34:45]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:56] – Glenn Beck introduces the “George” AI project
• [06:41] – Lincoln’s childhood trauma and early character
• [08:11] – Lincoln’s late embrace of Christianity at Gettysburg
• [09:45] – Gettysburg as moment of spiritual and national transformation
• [14:01] – Influence of John Quincy Adams; Lincoln’s anti-slavery evolution
• [15:07] – Lincoln’s rise to political prominence and pre-presidential obscurity
• [16:57] – Detailed account of the Baltimore assassination threats
• [19:10] – Lincoln’s rationale for preserving the Union
• [20:25] – Debate over Lincoln’s executive overreach during Civil War
• [22:10] – ‘Team of rivals’ and Lincoln’s managerial style
• [23:13] – Lincoln’s divisive popularity and shifting legacy
• [25:13] – Relationship with Elizabeth Keckley
• [26:32] – Context of African American colonization proposals
• [28:44] – Parallels to modern moral debates and warnings against presentism
• [30:36] – John Wilkes Booth’s motivation and the events of the assassination
• [34:45] – The seamstress’ symbolic role and closing reflections

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The episode is a richly detailed, thoughtful conversation that successfully places Abraham Lincoln’s presidency—and his personal struggles—in a broader context relevant to today’s societal divisions and historical reinterpretations. Both hosts reflect on the necessity of humility, context, and grace when facing the legacies of the past.

Transcript

[Glenn Beck]

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[Dave Rubin]

Well, the holidays have come and gone once again.

[Glenn Beck]

But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea.

[Dave Rubin]

You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose?

[Glenn Beck]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time. 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required. $45 for three months, $90 for six month or $180 for 12 month. Plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms. Nobody knows who he is. He's a failed congressman. One term congressman. And so now all of a sudden, he's the President. Nobody knows him, not a lot of people like him. But he wins and he gets into office. And on the way to office, he is in Baltimore and there is a threat on his life. They're going to kill him at the train station in Washington. So he gets into Baltimore at night and one of the guys who are protecting him, they're driving in a carriage. President could be in an open carriage because nobody knew what he looked like. He was known mainly by his hat, I think. And so he takes his hat off and he's in the carriage and he's hearing people say, you know, is that Lincoln in town? And he's hearing nasty things about him. And he said, I realized how much trouble the union was in and how much trouble I was in. George, we have programmed a lot of information and given you a lot of information on what's going on in today's America based on your writings and the writings of the rest of the founders. What is it that you feel is the biggest problem or where we should start to fix things? If I may speak plainly, my countrymen, the danger, the greatest danger to our republic lies not in foreign arms or political faction. But may I just, may I just interrupt you for a second? Could you just dumb it down just a little bit? Okay, I do have 29 points and they're all referenced to exactly what we said in the first for this, just speak in today's language. Okay, Okay, I get it.

[Dave Rubin]

All right. I'm Dave Rubin, and joining me today is the founder of Blaze Media Founder of Torch, the host of the Glenn Beck program, and a birthday boy himself, 62 years young. As we tape this today, my old friend Glenn Beck. How are you, my friend?

[Glenn Beck]

You know, you didn't need to throw in your old as well.

[Dave Rubin]

Sorry.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, and I think you're just losing weight to make me look fatter. So thank you for that. This is a. This is a joy so far, Glenn.

[Dave Rubin]

You have now moved to Florida. We're an outdoor people here. I want you walking the dog early in the morning. I want you getting sun. I want to get you on the carnivore diet. It's all good, man.

[Glenn Beck]

How you doing, Dave?

[Dave Rubin]

I am doing well. It is great to see you. You know, we cold opened with your George AI, which is so cool. I heard you talk about it a little bit at the Prageru event at Mar a Lago a few months ago. But to watch it in action and see you sitting down with George, well, that's exactly why I do these shows on Presidents Week. I want to reignite some of the ideas of the founders, and you guys are leveraging tech to do it. So we're going to mostly talk about Abraham Lincoln today, but if for just a moment, if you talk about the genesis of the idea itself and, and maybe a bit about George Washington.

[Glenn Beck]

George Washington is my favorite founder. And I happen to have library. There's. There's three of us, The American Journey Experience, David Barton's Wall Builders, and then my collection and it together. It is the largest collection of founding documents from 1610 to. To about 1830, 1820. And so we put all of that into a database. It's, it's. This is all proprietary. This is not chat, GPT, or anything else. And then we fenced it off so it cannot pull from anywhere else. It has to memorize, it can't hallucinate. And you can ask it to talk about any subject. You have to kind of give it examples. Like we asked it about Iran or Russia or something the other day, and it was like, I, I don't know what that is, but it is fascinating to be able to hear what the founders argued, what they actually believed, all from what the original documents are, and also anything that really influenced them when it came to founding our country.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, it was just such a joy watching. I watch an extended portion, but even in the clip that we just showed at the top, because, you know, there's all the. You and I, we can do all the dystopian versions of which way AI and robotics are going to Go. But to see it be used for something positive at the moment and get us back to some of our founding principles. And I also, I really do love, as you said, that you guys walled this thing off. So I don't even understand fully how the tech on that works. But basically, it will not be hit by outside influence because otherwise, when it comes to AI, we're just following the road that many of the people who screwed up the last 20 years of big tech are taking us down.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes, this is completely walled off. It cannot pull from the outside anything we put in it. It purges immediately. If it's just a question or we're giving it additional information so it can understand the question. It's all purged so it remains pure. And that's really important. I mean, somebody said Glenn Beck has been. Sure, sounds like Glenn Beck. I asked it. Do you know who Glenn Beck is? No. Do you know what progressivism is? No. I mean, it doesn't know anything. Doesn't know anything past 1820. It's fabulous, right?

[Dave Rubin]

And yet it probably knows a hell of a lot more than the two of I know the two of us know. So there you go.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. All right, my friend. Well, it's President's Week, and. And I thought you'd be perfect to talk about one of the presidents. And you, you got Abraham Lincoln this year. Where should we start? With Abraham Lincoln. He freed the slaves. That's the bumper sticker. But I feel there's a bit more to it than just that.

[Glenn Beck]

So I think we should start with him as a child. Abraham Lincoln, you know, born in the log cabin, born in the middle of nowhere. I mean, in the woods. And his father was nasty drunk. One of these kind of Christians that would beat Christ into you, beat the scriptures into you, would beat his wife. Just horrible, horrible guy. Lincoln was terrified of him. He had a little sister. His mother dies. His father just leaves and leaves. Abraham Lincoln and his sister, I think he was like seven, six or seven, leaves him, and he doesn't know what to do. So for almost a year, he does all the hunting. He does everything. He keeps his sister alive, keeps himself alive. And then dad walks in one day, and he kind of pushes a woman towards him and says, this your new mother. And she taught him how to read. She taught him the scripture. She taught him everything. He later said, everything I am, I owe to my mother. And that's who he meant. Because his father would go, he doesn't need to read. Reading will just, you know, scramble his head. He's A moron. And when he left his home, at first, he's not a good guy. I mean, he is not a Christian. He is not living those principles. He is. He's not a good guy. And I can't remember now what changed him. But he lives that way for a couple of years and he starts to change. He doesn't become a Christian again. He said towards the end of his life, I wasn't a Christian when I was elected president. I wasn't a Christian when my son died. I wasn't a Christian. Another time I became a Christian at Gettysburg. And Gettysburg is the moment where everything changes.

[Dave Rubin]

So talk about that change, because obviously, you know, people can give you a couple lines out of the Gettysburg Address, but it was a fundamental moment, not only for the country, but for him personally, as you're alluding to.

[Glenn Beck]

So him personally, you have to understand we had lost every battle but one up until this point. And he is. He is trying to find his raisin cane, if you will, that Donald Trump has. He was trying to find somebody who would actually go in, fight it and win, and he couldn't. And he kept going through people. And Gettysburg happens. And it's. It's horrendous. You know, we think of Gettysburg as the battle happened, and then he shows up and they've buried the dead. No, the battle happens, and then he shows up like three or four months later after the summer, and they're still stacking bodies like cordwood. I mean, I can't even imagine what that town smelled like at the time. So he goes in and he is deeply moved by this. He writes just on a little piece of paper, the Gettysburg Address, and basically says, we. We can't say anything here that anybody's going to remember. We can't say anything to hallow this ground. It's their blood. It's our job to make sure that they didn't die in vain, that we answer the question, can this nation come back together? And it was very simple. The guy who gave the speech before him, I think went on for about an hour. Abe was like four minutes. And somebody from the New York Times or one of the papers out of New York came up to him and said, that was pretty good speech. You have a copy of it? And he said, yeah, reaches in pocket, gives him the original, and the guy takes it back to New York, types it up, throws the original away, and. And there's the Gettysburg Address. But after this, he. It drives him to his knees because he had been pleading, but toying with as again, he said, I wasn't really a Christian. He hadn't surrendered to God until Gettysburg. After Gettysburg, he gets on his knees and he's begging God, whatever you want, tell me what you want. I'll do whatever you want. Just tell me what it is. And you can see it in his speeches. He says, you know, if all of the. If all of the. The gold and the silver and everything that this country has today is all lost in one heap because of every drop of blood that was drawn by the lash of the whip, remember, God is just that. In other words, that would be a just thing. If we lose everything, it's still just. So he calls for a national day of prayer and fasting. Humiliation. Prayer and fasting. Humiliation, I think, is the key. Humiliation means you humble yourself and you realize you don't have any control over anything. You know, everything you have, you got from God. Prayer pleased our Lord, saved the Republic, and fasting. Dedicate yourself to sacrifice something he does that. We lose every battle but one prior to this, we win every battle but one after the proclamation. And I think that's important because that's very much like George Washington as well. When we are a nation of covenants, and when we make a covenant, things change. I want to go back, you know, early, before this. He's not. He's a complex guy. You know, he gets into Congress, and John Quincy Adams is in Congress, and he's old by this time. He's the only president to become president and then leave and go to the House of Representatives. And the reason why is because he believed slavery had to end. And so John Quincy Adams sees this young kid, and he's looking for a successor because he has been fighting against slavery forever. In fact, they had a rule, I think it was the Adams rule, that you could not bring up slavery in session. So they'd finish one bill and they'd say anything. You know, what's next? And he, I, I propose, Mr. Speaker, that we end slavery. And everybody would shout at him. So they passed a deal because he just. He would not give up. He sees Abraham Lincoln and he realizes, I think this is the guy that can do it. So he downloads everything that he has done.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow.

[Glenn Beck]

Abe is not necessarily a guy who is. Marching or leading with abolition.

[Dave Rubin]

Right.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, and so. But John Quincy Adams gets him. And that's the seed, I think, that is planted there at that time that eventually grows into the Abraham Lincoln that.

[Dave Rubin]

Do we know or do you know what his thoughts on slavery were before that? I mean, he was obviously anti Slavery in some sense. But as you point out, he wasn't an abolitionist or it wasn't maybe in the top of his order of importance. Do we know where that kind of fell in?

[Glenn Beck]

He, I think he was anti slavery, but not a leader of it, like Franklin was a leader of it. The Adams were leaders in that. I think he was anti slavery, but not a leader. He was more concerned about saving the republic than anything else. And you know, people want to make it about slavery or whatever states rights. It, it really, for Abraham Lincoln, at least at the beginning, it was about keep the union together. And he didn't know how hated he was. You know, he was. He was voted, I think, on the 50th round of voting at the convention. I mean, at the end they had voted 50 times for different people. And then suddenly Abraham Lincoln, you know, they're like, what about this Abraham Lincoln guy? Everybody's laughing, please. And so at the end, he's voted as the guy. Because some people are like, if I throw my vote for Abraham Lincoln, then this guy will be able to pop up. Well, too many people think that. And he becomes the nominee for the party. Nobody knows who he is. He's a failed congressman, one term congressman. And so now all of a sudden, he's the president. Nobody knows him, not a lot of people like him. But he wins and he gets into office. And on the way to office, he is in Baltimore and there is a threat on his life. They're going to kill him at the train station in Washington. So he gets into Baltimore at night and one of the guys who are protecting him, they're driving in a carriage. President could be in an open carriage because nobody knew what he looked like. He was known mainly by his hat, I think. And so he takes his hat off and he's in the carriage and he's hearing people say, you know, is that Lincoln in town? And he's hearing nasty things about him. And he said, I realized how much trouble the union was in and how much trouble I was in. They take him, bring him into a theater. Halfway through, he sneaks out the side door into an alley. They tell him to crouch down, take off the hat, you know, put a shawl on, act like you're an old man. They get him into another carriage, they take him to a train. They take him to Pittsburgh and then into Washington on another train going another direction.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow.

[Glenn Beck]

He's there before the assassins even show up to greet his train from Baltimore the next day.

[Dave Rubin]

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[Glenn Beck]

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[Glenn Beck]

Wow.

[Dave Rubin]

Do we know what his full rationale for wanting to keep the union together was? Was it, was it that he just thought we would be warring forever if we did not stay together? Was it directly connected to, to all of the slavery stuff? Was there?

[Glenn Beck]

No, I think, no. I think it's kind of like, I think it's kind of like what I feel now. You know, there are people who say national divorce, national divorce. You don't, you don't understand what a national divorce means. A national divorce, you, you lose everything that we are, we, we become a fundamentally different country. One of the reasons why the, the Emancipation Proclamation happened is to stop France and I think England from endorsing the South. And they said, you know, in fact it was, it was another Adams that happened to be in France and they're going to send checks now to the south and back the south just for the trade was so good with the South. And he's told by Adams, no, no, no, don't, don't do that. I can't tell you what's coming. But wait a week. I think you'll be impressed because what they were saying was, this isn't about ending slavery. You're not doing that. You're trying to preserve this union. We don't care about the union. We care about trade. And trade is happening with the South. So he knew that we had to keep this together if we were going to be one. Otherwise we would be divided up and eaten by foreign powers.

[Dave Rubin]

What else do we know about his sort of governing philosophy? It sounds like we know a bit about his religious philosophy and his religious wake up. But what about, you know, how he wanted to use government or not use government? Obviously you've referenced states rights here. There was an awful lot going on between the states and a federal government that still, well, wasn't nearly as big as our federal government now, but was still kind of putting the pieces together.

[Glenn Beck]

I'm not sure you can. I'm not sure it's fair to judge him because he was constantly in war. That's kind of like looking. Well, it's fair with fdr, because fdr, you know, went through and built all this government and then we went into war. But presidents sometimes do things in war that you wouldn't necessarily do because it's really bad. In his case, it was a civil war. And so you can look at him and say he violated the Constitution at least three times, all on the same thing. Rid of habeas corpus and, and actually sending the blockade down. And, and, and being the guy who basically said we're in war now, and Congress, you know, this has been debated forever. Does the President have the right to do that? Does Congress have the right to do that? Most people agree that it's Congress that has the right to do that. So there's his first violation and then the writ of habeas corpus. He is dealing with all these people and he can't let them go because they're just going to join the ranks again. So what do I do with these people who are seditious? What do I do? He holds them, and he holds them without trial. It's my understanding I could be wrong on this, but it's my understanding that's kind of like what's happening in Minnesota. Are you going to get a fair trial of anybody in Minnesota? And so the President, he believed we have to preserve the Republic. I can't have all these people go out on the streets. But I think that's the biggest problem people have with Abraham Lincoln. I mean, I, I'd never heard it because I grew up a Northerner. And when I came to the South, I started hearing People talk about Glenn, I can't believe you. Like that tyrant Abraham Lincoln. I'm like, what are you talking about? And in some ways, they're right, because in war, he was doing things that, you know, you wouldn't like to do in peacetime. But I think he was. My opinion, he was justified in doing those things. He liked to have people. He's very much like Trump in this way. He surrounded himself with people that were different. He didn't like to have everybody think, think alike. He brought a team of rivals in, and that way he could hear all sides. That was a problem, but it was also, I think, his strength.

[Dave Rubin]

What do we know about his popularity before the slaves were freed and then after, do you know.

[Glenn Beck]

Where his popularity.

[Dave Rubin]

Right, well. Well, I mean, I guess we can probably garner or glean that it was probably a little less popular in the south and a little more in the North. But, I mean. But do. Do we have.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Was it just a little. I mean.

[Glenn Beck]

I mean, he only won second term, I think, by 55%. You know, the Electoral college was a sweep, but, you know, the actual vote was 55%. So he was just as controversial as any president. But, you know, by the time you get to the second term, people are tired of war. You know, again, people of. I've heard this from people, you know, civil war. Are you out of your mind? You have no idea what that means. You want to end up looking like Somalia? That's how you do it. You know, you're killing family members and family members. And everybody was done, you know, by the time he gets into the second term and we're not winning. And so he's, you know, I think he was unpopular everywhere. As soon as he frees the slave, he again becomes more popular in the north, less popular in the South. But the black community, I mean, he's like a God to the black community, at least at that time. Up until really, up until recent years, up until about the 60s or 70s or a lot of it is happening today where, you know, he can do no. Right, right.

[Dave Rubin]

So what. What is that? What is that? Just consistent with everything else we see, which is just the rewriting of history in every which way and applying our modern, modern morals to people of the past.

[Glenn Beck]

I mean, you have to know, he was not a guy who was living for that, but he understood it. You know, the guy who. The woman who made all of his clothes and his wife's clothes, she was a freed slave that freed herself and bought her freedom and moved to Washington, D.C. and Abraham Lincoln's wife went into her dress store. She was a seamstress. And they hit it off and became friends. And she closed her store and said, I want to work for the Lincolns in the White House. And adored Abraham Lincoln. In her autobiography, she writes. And Mary Todd Lincoln also is known to have written this as well. She was a black woman and the only one that Abraham Lincoln and his wife trusted in. In Washington, D.C. they told her everything. They were good friends. It was a remarkable relationship. Remarkable relationship.

[Dave Rubin]

Let's.

[Glenn Beck]

But, you know, one of the things people will say is, well, Glenn, you know, he wanted his. He wanted some, I don't know, a private colony or an island for blacks. That's not Abraham Lincoln's idea. I mean, Thomas Jefferson even said that because the theory was, you have put these people in chains, you've treated them like this for a very long time, you're now going to take the chains off of them and say, let's live side by side. So it was not uncommon at the time to go. That's not going to happen. Let's buy land. Liberia is actually part of this. Let's buy land and send them overseas, back to Africa and they can start their own thing. That's not Abraham Lincoln. I think that was just a common fear at the time and not a stupid fear.

[Dave Rubin]

Right? That's the thing. Even in 2026, it's hard to talk about that in some sense. Like this idea that they would have resettled people who were brought here slaves, and yet try to imagine how difficult it would be discussing it then when you're one of the people who wants to free the slaves, ironically.

[Glenn Beck]

Right? Well, you're, you're, want to free the slaves and you want to. Then you're, you're pushing for. Because everybody else is like, you free the slaves, they'll kill us all. No, no, we're going to send them back. I mean, think of this. How is that a bad idea? I mean, you can't have it both ways, right? You know, they were taken from Africa and brought here and they didn't come by choice. Well, our founders and Abraham Lincoln thought we should send them back because that is their home and set them up. And Liberia for a long time was very successful. I mean, it was, it was American principles all the way through and through. But, you know, it didn't happen, and thank God it did.

[Dave Rubin]

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[Glenn Beck]

It is very much, I think, be careful on how you judge because there's going to be a lot of this judging happening to us. The most obvious is abortion. Okay? There are people who absolutely believe that is murder and people who say, you're insane. That's not a baby. Okay? We have two choices. We can go to war over it or we can try to make incremental steps to abolish that. Okay. Or change your mind the other direction, whichever. But we have chosen as a society not to kill each other over that. Well, in a hundred years from now, that may look absolutely barbaric that we allowed this to happen. I don't know.

[Dave Rubin]

Right.

[Glenn Beck]

Could go the other way. But they will judge us. How many people do you know that believe this so strongly? That is life. But they're not blowing up abortion clinics. They're not doing those things because that's unreasonable in our time.

[Dave Rubin]

Right?

[Glenn Beck]

It's exactly why you have to judge people in their day.

[Dave Rubin]

It's why we better have some grace with the people of the past because we will be judged way harsher. I mean, imagine how the people who are for trans and kids will be judged assuming. Oh my gosh, assuming sanity prevails, which obviously that's a big assumption. But let's jump towards the end of his life and obviously everyone knows how this story ends. Do we have any insight into what was going on politically right before or anything else?

[Glenn Beck]

You know, he had just Given his speech with malice toward none. I have a picture, the only picture, of John Wilkes Booth and Abraham Lincoln together.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, wow. We're going to get that from you, and we're gonna. We'll throw it in. Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

Incredible. Up in the corner of the stairs, you'll see John Wilkes Booth. Other people are fuzzy. Abraham Lincoln is fuzzy.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow.

[Glenn Beck]

Remember, you had to stand still. Booth is zeroed in. He is clear as a day, and he's zeroed in. And when he hears, with charity toward all malice, toward none, he loses his mind. He actually runs down the stairs and tries to choke Abraham Lincoln to death that day. He trips and falls, and so nobody knows what his intent was at the time, but that's when he's like, I got to kill him. Because Abraham Lincoln, remember, right after the war, I have Lee. What do I do with him? Take your boot off him. Gently. So in other words, help him up. And so he's saying, look, we are all one family. We've got to come together. He's for reconciliation. He's Martin Luther King. He's for reconciliation. Booth knows, first of all, he's. He's out of his mind crazy that the south submitted, that they. They quit. And so he says, I've got to rile up the north to be able to get them so angry, they'll just go back into war, because this time it'll be different. Well, he kills the wrong man, and it unites everybody but one part of his story that I don't think anybody knows. Right around this time, he has a dream that he's going to be killed. I believe he knows. He's talking to his wife. She's like, after the. After the term, what are we going to do? And he says, I want to walk in the footsteps of Jesus. Let's go to Jerusalem. So that gives you a hint on where he was mentally there. He goes to the theater that night. His son is in another theater watching another show just down the street. The guy who's supposed to be watching the door is in a bar. Booth happens to be in that bar at the time. So the guy who's supposed to be watching him off duty and was supposed to be at the door, Booth is a very famous actor. He's like Leonardo DiCaprio at the time. So he can go anywhere and people will let him in anywhere. He has the whole thing planned. He goes into the box. He stands right behind the president. He knows the lines. It's a comedy. And when there's a big laugh coming, that's when he's going to shoot. And so they hit the line, laugh, shoot, he's dying. He then jumps over the balcony, which is a long way down. I don't know if you've been to Ford's theater, but he jumps off the balcony onto the stage, and basically, you know, death to tyrants. And he runs, but when he falls, he breaks his leg. At the same time, Booth has other confederates and they're trying to kill the Cabinet. Okay, let me stick to Lincoln, though. Lincoln goes. They take him across the street eventually. I mean, it's so horrific to think what happened when he's down on the floor of the theater. The doctor that comes in thinks the best thing to do is to get the bullet out of his head. So he keeps sticking his finger in the hole and scooping around trying to find the bullet. Okay, His. His brain starts to swell. It gets really bad. It will clog. And so then he goes back into this finger to make sure that it can drain. The woman who was the. The lead actress in the play that night, she sees an opportunity, and so she goes downstairs, she changes into a white dress. She has a brand new white dress, a little green flowers on it. And then she comes up to the door of the box and says, well, I just hear the President is lying here on the floor just bleeding. And I just can't let that happen. I just must hold him. And so they actually let her in. She puts this whole white dress out. They lift him up, put his head so he bleeds all over her dress. She does it because she knows she's going to make herself into the Florence Nightingale of this night. She goes on tour wearing the dress, telling how what happened. He goes over across the street. He dies as he's dying, the best friend of the Lincolns, she's in the White House and she's making the dress. The former slave is making the black dress so Mary Todd Lincoln can wear it the next morning. And I like to think of that part of it. Here's this black woman who is with a president who was trying to save the Union, but then an icon saved her people and ended slavery. And she's best friends with the wife and knows that the wife has to be wearing black by the time the sun comes up if he's dead. And I just see her how she saw through the tears. I just see her at the sewing machine making this dress all the way through the middle of the night. Gosh, it's pretty amazing.

[Dave Rubin]

It's absolutely amazing. Do we know where the white dress is. I feel like if anyone has it, it's probably yes.

[Glenn Beck]

So I actually tried to buy a piece of it. It was about this big. And at auction it ended up being, I think, 100 or $150,000 for just that piece.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow.

[Glenn Beck]

And I didn't think. I didn't think it was worth that. But there are pieces of it still in existence.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow. That is. That is just extraordinary. Well, I. I knew you'd be the right guy for this because I wanted people to just get a bite, but also to. To relate some of the tensions to what's going on today without us having to talk about too much 2026 politics. Glenn, I wish you a very happy birthday, my friend.

[Glenn Beck]

Thank you.

[Dave Rubin]

Legendary Glenn Beck making a little appearance.

[Glenn Beck]

On our legendary and old.

[Dave Rubin]

Happy birthday, brother.

[Glenn Beck]

Thanks, man. I love you.

[Dave Rubin]

Love you too.

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