Podcast Summary: The Rubin Report – "The Real Reason That Traditional Conservatism Needs to Be Replaced | James Orr"

Introduction

In the March 12, 2025 episode of The Rubin Report, host Dave Rubin engages in a profound conversation with James Orr, Associate Professor of Philosophy of Religion at the University of Cambridge, Chair of the Edmund Burke Foundation UK, and Director of UK Programs for Trinity Forum Europe. The discussion delves into the current state of traditional conservatism, the paralysis and corruption within traditional institutions, and the necessity for a transformative approach to preserve timeless conservative principles.

1. The Crisis of Traditional Institutions

James Orr opens the conversation by highlighting the deep-seated issues plaguing traditional institutions. He asserts that these institutions have become "paralyzed and corrupt and captured," necessitating the exploration of alternative methods to uphold conservative values.

"Our institutions have got so paralyzed and corrupt and captured that we really do have to think of alternative ways."
— James Orr [00:46]

Orr criticizes modern conservatism's reluctance to dismantle failing institutions, arguing that true conservatism focuses on preserving timeless principles rather than the institutions themselves.

"Conservatives want to conserve timeless principles. And institutions are the vehicles and the instruments for implementing those timeless values."
— James Orr [01:09]

2. Institutions vs. Networks

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the distinction between institutions and networks. Orr references Neil Ferguson's metonymy of the "square and the tower" to illustrate how networks possess agility and resilience that traditional institutions lack.

"Networks need an anchoring unit, I suppose, in institutions. But they can't be without institutions."
— James Orr [02:05]

He emphasizes that networks, composed of individuals rather than large structures, are inherently harder to capture and manipulate, making them powerful agents for change. However, without institutional support, these networks lack stability.

3. The MAGA Movement and Traditional Conservatism

Orr critically examines the MAGA movement, aligning it more with a disruptive force than with traditional conservatism. He challenges David Brooks' assertion that MAGA and Trump are "anti-conservative," positing instead that their actions stem from a fundamental desire to uphold conservative values by tearing down ineffective institutions.

"Conservatives want to conserve timeless principles. If institutions have shown themselves to be completely incapable of implementing those values... then the conservative position is to pull them down."
— James Orr [01:09] & [04:14]

This perspective reframes the MAGA movement's actions as a justified response to institutional failure, rather than a deviation from conservatism.

4. Academic Freedom and Institutional Reform

The conversation transitions to the academic sphere, where Orr discusses the challenges faced by traditional institutions like Oxford and Cambridge amid cultural revolutions and "woke" influences. He notes that these universities have been slower to succumb compared to their American counterparts due to their unique collegiate structure.

"Oxford and Cambridge have been much harder to capture... because you've got to go through each college."
— James Orr [09:17]

Orr highlights recent legislative efforts in the UK to protect academic freedom, such as the government's attempt to pass measures addressing institutional corruption and ensuring universities return to their founding ideals.

"It's the first attempt in the west to address this crisis within the universities."
— James Orr [09:17]

5. The Role of Government in Conservatism

A critical theme is the evolving role of government within the conservative framework. Orr references Alexander Hamilton's advocacy for a "muscular government," arguing that an efficient and effective government does not equate to a larger one.

"A smarter and more effective government is in fact a smaller government."
— James Orr [12:14]

He contends that modern conservatism must embrace the use of state power judiciously to reform and renew institutions, diverging from libertarian ideals that oppose governmental intervention.

6. Transatlantic Influences and Future Optimism

Orr expresses optimism about the transatlantic exchange of conservative ideas, noting the inspirational shifts occurring in the United States. He believes that American strategies and successes can inform and invigorate the UK's conservative movement.

"What's happening over there is shifting the parameters of the politically possible. Things are happening."
— James Orr [12:59]

This optimism is bolstered by the enthusiasm and strategic adaptations observed among conservative circles, fostering a hopeful outlook for revitalizing conservatism both in the UK and abroad.

Conclusion

James Orr's insights in this episode of The Rubin Report present a compelling argument for redefining traditional conservatism. By critically assessing the failures of established institutions and advocating for strategic reforms and the utilization of government power, Orr underscores the necessity for a dynamic and adaptable conservative movement. This episode serves as a thought-provoking exploration of how conservatism can evolve to address contemporary challenges while steadfastly upholding its foundational principles.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Our institutions have got so paralyzed and corrupt and captured that we really do have to think of alternative ways."
  — James Orr [00:46]

• "Conservatives want to conserve timeless principles. And institutions are the vehicles and the instruments for implementing those timeless values."
  — James Orr [01:09]

• "Networks need an anchoring unit, I suppose, in institutions. But they can't be without institutions."
  — James Orr [02:05]

• "A smarter and more effective government is in fact a smaller government."
  — James Orr [12:14]

• "What's happening over there is shifting the parameters of the politically possible. Things are happening."
  — James Orr [12:59]

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Rubin Report offers valuable perspectives on the intersection of conservatism, institutional integrity, and political strategy. James Orr's articulate analysis provides listeners with a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing modern conservatism, advocating for a thoughtful and principled approach to political and social reform.