The Real Story Behind the Film Hollywood Tried to Stop | Mohit Ramchandani

Summary

The Rubin Report: The Real Story Behind the Film Hollywood Tried to Stop | Mohit Ramchandani

Release Date: May 7, 2025
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Mohit Ramchandani, Director and Producer of City of Dreams

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Rubin Report, host Dave Rubin engages in an in-depth conversation with Mohit Ramchandani, the visionary director and producer behind the impactful film City of Dreams. The discussion delves into Ramchandani's personal journey, the challenges he faced within Hollywood, and the broader implications of his film on topics such as immigration, child trafficking, and the state of modern cinema.

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Mohit Ramchandani's Background and Inspiration

Ramchandani begins by sharing his poignant personal history, highlighting the struggles of his father, who worked in a sweatshop from a young age. This backdrop of hardship profoundly influenced Ramchandani's desire to create meaningful cinema. He recounts how being bullied during his youth led him to the film Rocky, which inspired him to recognize the transformative power of media.

Notable Quote:
"I was a D student. I was always in trouble... Rocky changed my life. I realized that the media and cinema has power to affect people and affect their minds and their hearts."
(02:05)

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The Genesis of City of Dreams

The idea for City of Dreams germinated when Ramchandani read about 72 immigrants trapped in a sweatshop in El Monte, California. This harrowing account of forced labor, juxtaposed with his father's experiences, motivated him to tell the story of a young immigrant trafficked into a sweatshop. Drawing inspiration from films like City of God and Slumdog Millionaire, Ramchandani aimed to craft a narrative that resonates with audiences on a deep emotional level.

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Navigating Hollywood's Challenges

Ramchandani candidly discusses the hurdles he faced in getting his film produced within the traditional Hollywood system. Despite writing a compelling script in 2011, he encountered persistent rejections, attributing them to both the film's political undertones and his own non-Latino background. He emphasizes the systemic barriers that prevent diverse voices from telling authentic stories.

Notable Quote:
"Because of the color of my skin being different to yours, I can't tell this story."
(00:19)

He highlights the shift in Hollywood from a centralized system, where producers like Robert Evans could passionately champion projects, to a decentralized model dominated by actors and high-influence investors, which, in his view, has led to a decline in cinematic quality over the past three decades.

Notable Quote:
"The quality of cinema has gone down the toilet. I would say for me the last great year was 1997 with films like Good Will Hunting and Titanic."
(07:42)

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Raising Funds Independently

After years of rejection, Ramchandani took a bold step by investing his own resources and seeking support from friends and family to bring City of Dreams to fruition. He collaborated with Ruben Rosales from the Department of Labor, who provided him with real-life cases that enriched the film's authenticity. This grassroots approach underscores Ramchandani's commitment to telling stories that mainstream media often overlooks.

Notable Quote:
"I thought, I can raise money to do this... it was rejected a thousand times."
(10:29)

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Production Journey and Overcoming Obstacles

The production of City of Dreams was far from conventional. Originally slated to feature actors like Pierce Brosnan and Alfred Molina, Ramchandani faced personal challenges, including the passing of his mother due to cancer, which delayed the project's progress. Ultimately, the film became his directorial debut, shot over an extended period of 70 days—a stark contrast to typical independent film schedules.

Notable Quote:
"It wasn't a normal independent film shoot. We shot for 70 days instead of the usual 18 to 23."
(20:10)

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Securing Distribution and Gaining Momentum

Ramchandani recounts a transformative encounter with Michael Phillips, a legendary producer known for classics like Taxi Driver and The Sting. Phillips recognized the film's potential and introduced Ramchandani to influential figures, leading to a distribution deal with Roadside Attractions. The film's release was bolstered by endorsements from high-profile personalities like Tony Robbins and Sylvester Stallone, who acted as ambassadors to amplify its reach.

Notable Quote:
"Sylvester called and said, 'You did that?... everyone in Hollywood is so ignorant and stupid right now.' He offered to help, and that's how things started to change."
(29:42)

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Facing Pushback and Censorship

Despite the film's positive reception, Ramchandani encountered significant obstacles upon its release. Mainstream media outlets and influential Latino organizations criticized the film, questioning the authenticity of its production team. Ramchandani attributes this backlash to systemic biases against non-Latino creators telling Latino stories. Additionally, he faced shadow banning on social media platforms, which hampered the film's promotional efforts.

Notable Quote:
"I couldn't get anyone to see it. Even Latino media organizations questioned my legitimacy because I'm Indian."
(24:16)

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Strategizing the Release Amidst Political Turmoil

The release of City of Dreams coincided with a tumultuous period in American politics, marked by debates over immigration and heightened cultural tensions. Ramchandani describes how false narratives about the film negatively impacted its box office performance, despite achieving high audience scores and positive reviews initially. He criticizes the orchestrated efforts to undermine the film's success, attributing them to broader societal issues like misinformation and political polarization.

Notable Quote:
"We had an A cinema score and a 90% Rotten Tomatoes audience score, but after certain groups joined the fray, our scores plummeted."
(41:10)

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The Impact of Influencer Support

Leveraging the support of influential figures was pivotal in sustaining the film's momentum. Celebrities like Tony Robbins and Vivek Ramaswamy played crucial roles in promoting the film, helping it gain traction on platforms like Amazon despite initial setbacks in theaters. Ramchandani credits these endorsements with driving significant increases in digital views and purchases, ultimately broadening the film's reach beyond traditional cinema.

Notable Quote:
"Tony Robbins sent me an 8-minute message that changed everything. Sylvester endorsed the film, and Mike Tyson became an ambassador."
(33:22)

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Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Impact Media

Concluding the interview, Ramchandani shares his aspirations beyond City of Dreams. He is in the process of launching Impact Media, a company dedicated to producing heroic cinema that showcases exemplary role models for children. His upcoming project focuses on Havana Syndrome, envisioned as a Harrison Ford-led thriller set in Cuba. Ramchandani remains committed to filling the void he perceives in contemporary cinema, advocating for stories that inspire and uplift.

Notable Quote:
"Impact Media is focused on filling the critical void in heroic cinema, celebrating heroes that are exemplary role models to children."
(45:01)

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Conclusion

Dave Rubin's conversation with Mohit Ramchandani offers a profound exploration of the intersection between personal struggle, creative ambition, and systemic barriers within Hollywood. Ramchandani's unwavering dedication to telling authentic stories despite significant challenges underscores the importance of diverse voices in shaping cinematic narratives. City of Dreams stands as a testament to resilience and the enduring power of film to inspire change.

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Highlights:

• Personal Inspiration: Ramchandani's father's experience in sweatshops and the transformative impact of Rocky.
• Film Creation: The genesis and production challenges of City of Dreams.
• Industry Barriers: Navigating Hollywood's biases against non-Latino storytellers.
• Influencer Impact: The role of high-profile endorsements in overcoming promotional hurdles.
• Future Endeavors: Launching Impact Media to advocate for heroic cinema.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "I was a D student. I was always in trouble... Rocky changed my life." — Ramchandani (02:05)
• "Because of the color of my skin being different to yours, I can't tell this story." — Ramchandani (00:19)
• "The quality of cinema has gone down the toilet." — Ramchandani (07:42)
• "You did that?... everyone in Hollywood is so ignorant and stupid right now." — Michael Phillips (29:42)
• "Impact Media is focused on filling the critical void in heroic cinema." — Ramchandani (45:01)

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This episode not only sheds light on the systemic challenges faced by filmmakers like Ramchandani but also emphasizes the critical need for diverse narratives in cinema. Through perseverance and strategic alliances, Ramchandani exemplifies the potential for independent films to drive meaningful conversations and societal change.

Transcript

[A]

We had 100% amongst critics until all the people that joined, you know, the Vivecs and the Tonys and, you know, once they all joined, all of a sudden we got smashed.

[B]

So, okay, so you get into one festival, but you're not happy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You feel like you're kind of being pushed out, but you got a nice film. So what happens?

[A]

The current administration is allowing these kids to come across the border, and they're being transported then to Uncle Juan in Arizona. And we're now looking at the files going, we've sent kids to Uncle Juan in Arizona. He isn't an uncle. They would ask me like, so how many Latinos were in front behind the camera? And I'm like, well, it was shot in Mexico. And how many Latinos were involved in the writing and directing? And I'm like, oh, you want to go after me? I'm like, I'm an Indian. I'm an immigrant. My father worked in a sweatshop. And you're now saying that because of the color of my skin being different to yours, I can't tell this story. We have this army of influencers. Together. They had over 300 million followers. Many of them were getting shadow banned for posting about City of Dreams, saying this is spreading misinformation about the election. And I'm like, what?

[B]

Joining me right now in studio is the director and producer of the film City of Dreams, Mo Raman Chandi. I said your name wrong.

[A]

Yeah, I did. Mo Ramchandani.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You said it right before we started. That's good. That's good, though.

[B]

Where does that put us right now? Very uneven. And your hair is better than mine. This is gonna. This is gonna be a RO hour.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm very glad to have you on. And, you know, watching the trailer, which I've watched several times before, and I've. I've seen a bunch of the clips of the movie. The movie came out last August.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Feels in some sense, even more timely now just relative to what we're dealing with, with immigration, deportations, all of that stuff. So I. We'll obviously get into all of that. But just tell me a little bit about your story. What gets you to make a movie like that? How you got into this crazy biz, and then. And then we'll dive into all of that.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And at some point, I will say your name correctly.

[A]

Okay, no worries. So, you know, I'm originally from India, and my father worked in a sweatshop when he was seven years old. So that was always, you know, at the back of my mind. And as a kid growing up, I was bullied a lot. And I saw Rocky and it changed my life. And I realized that the media and cinema has power to affect people and affect their minds and their hearts. And so I wanted to be a filmmaker, but I wanted to tell Hero's Journeys. You know, Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces. Like, that was my inspiration. And I moved to LA and I worked for a long time as a producer and I made a lot of crap that I wasn't proud of. And I suddenly read a case about 72 immigrants trapped in a house in El Monte, California, and they were being forced to sew. Like, when you think of human trafficking, you think of, like, sex slavery. And we're all a little indifferent to that because we go, that doesn't touch us. Whereas we're all wearing something that was probably made in a sweatshop. So I thought that was an interesting sort of subject matter. And that's where the idea sort of germinated. And I've always love, you know, City of God and Slumdog Millionaire and those kind of movies with kids. So I just wanted to tell the story of this kid who comes across the border illegally, is trafficked and sold to a sweatshop.

[B]

Let's. Before we dive into the specifics of the film, the. The hero's Journey that you're talking about, we got to spend a couple hours together a few months ago, and we were just going through all of the movies that we love that have influenced. Influenced U.S. and TV shows. And basically we have like, a lot of the same stuff that really hit us, including Rocky, as you mentioned. And I met Sly Stallone at a Mutual Friend of Ours house not too long ago. And I. And when I met him, he walks up to me, how are you doing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I go, champ, it's great to meet you. Like, that was the first thing that popped in my head. He's Champ to me.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And that kind of encapsulates what a good story will do.

[A]

That I meet the guy who created.

[B]

It, wrote it, fought Hollywood to do the whole thing. And in my mind, he kind of is that character. And that's really an incredible thing.

[A]

Absolutely. And you know, for me, my parents, like, when I was growing up, my dad was like, you gotta get straight A's, you gotta stay out of trouble, and you gotta marry an Indian girl. And I was a D student. I was always in trouble, and no girl liked me, Indian or not. So I was out of luck. And I really was a very depressed kid. My neighbor brought over Rocky and you see him sort of take a beating through the whole movie. And you know, in the final fight, he gets knocked down 100 times. And in the 14th round, his trainer even tells him, stay down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he gets up and he looks at the champ and he goes, come on, let's go. That moment changed my life. I was sitting there watching that as a 12 year old going, why did my father not teach me this? Never to give up? Why is getting straight A's and marrying an Indian girl more important than that? So, yeah, I mean, was that also.

[B]

The moment that you realized you wanted to make films or was that just sort of the genesis, like get my shit together?

[A]

No, I knew 100 then one day I'm gonna move to Hollywood, I'm gonna make movies. I was living in Hong Kong at the time and you know, people would laugh at me as a 14, 15 year old, I was like, I'm gonna move to Hollywood and I'm gonna make movies.

[B]

Yeah. So you get to Hollywood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what was the exact. Did you say crap? I think you said crap.

[A]

It was a lot of crap, crap, crap.

[B]

So you start making and I think that's what happens to a lot of people with the dreams of getting to Hollywood. There's just crap that needs to be made. It's just part of the machine. So you're doing that stuff and is it as soul sucking as we all think it is? Is there any fun part of it? Or at least you're making some money?

[A]

You know, look, that's the fun part of it. You're making some money. And if you truly are an artist and you want to tell great stories, get the sort of barriers to entry in Hollywood are so low on one side where anyone can say, I'm a writer, I'm a director, you don't need a degree, you brain science. But at the same time, you've got to pay your dues and everybody has to pay their dues. And for me, I didn't really want to pay dues. And what I learned was those movies that we love, they exist in the upper echelon, the gladiators, the Rockies. You don't get to tell those stories until you first make a horror movie. Until you first make something genre, you've kind of got to fit into the system. Like all these independent films that go to festivals, I mean, for me personally, none of them made it to the multiplex internationally. They're all boring. I don't enjoy them. So you have to kind of play in that world or you have to be a slave to the studio system. Because when you're working for a studio, it's their movie, it's not yours, you know. And so, yeah, it was tough when.

[B]

People give Hollywood so much crap, and there's obviously lots of reasons that Hollywood deserves some crap. But when you talk about the system, in some sense, I see it as it had to have a system. And the system has changed over the years. The studios used to basically own the actors and contract them for years and all of those things. But do you feel that the system had to exist, Exist in some sense? Like there was going to have to be something pretty regimented because everybody wants to.

[A]

The, the idea that you could just.

[B]

Go somewhere and create. Every person on earth would rather do that than, you know, dig in ditches, et cetera.

[A]

So here's the thing. As we've, you know, we both talked about Hollywood's now becoming decentralized, right. And technology is helping with that. There's a good side to that, but there's a bad side to that. And the bad side is there hasn't been a great movie made in 30 years. And actually the old system worked better for creating movies. And I'm going to simply. Why, in the old days, a producer like Robert Evans would read a book like Rosemary's Baby and he would go, I'm gonna go hire a director. I'm gonna hire someone with a vision for this story and then we're gonna go get what actors assigned to the studio. Actors are designed to take on the vision of someone else. They're not necessarily. Their training isn't to be stubborn and visionary about one thing. Right. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

A lot of them have become that way, unfortunately.

[A]

But yeah, but it's to let go and inhabit these different characters. Now the business has gone way, the actor decides what movie to get made, he hires a director, and there's a bunch of people running around with money that want to support whatever stars, you know, wants to make a movie. And as a result, the quality of cinema has gone down the toilet. Yeah, I mean, 30 years, that's.

[B]

That's quite a statement. What, what would you say is the last.

[A]

I would say for me the year that goodwill hunting Titanic as good as it gets. Like all of those best pictured nominees about 97. 97, right.

[B]

Wow, you're totally right.

[A]

That was not. That was 97 and 2000 was glad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Gladiator won in 2000 the Academy Award and it was a huge movie, and 97 was that year. I would say that was the end. You know, Braveheart was 95. The 90s for me were my favorite, like, decade.

[B]

Can I give you one other movie from 97 that I hope you enjoyed? Because I think it's one of the greatest movies of all time. Robert Zemeckis contact with Jody Foster and Matthew McConaughey.

[A]

Absolutely wonderful.

[B]

So something was cooking in 97. Also, Air Force One, commercially.

[A]

Pretty great. Pretty great.

[B]

Not. Not of all time.

[A]

Honestly. I love it.

[B]

I know it's great.

[A]

So I get it.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

But we're not putting it in the top hundred. But it's a great. It's a. It's a great movie.

[A]

Okay, so.

[B]

So Hollywood has shifted. All these things have. Have shifted. We're in a shifting time right now. Now you decide to make this movie. And this is to the backdrop of a lot of kind of craziness of, let's say, the last five or so years in America, maybe decade in America and immigration and build a wall and all of these things. How does this even start? How do you even come up with the. The script?

[A]

And so. So I wrote it in 2011. It was announced in 2011. And at the time, Pierce Brosnan was gonna play the cop. Like, that's, you know, who I had had at the time. And Alfred Milena was gonna play the El Jefe character. I unfortunately left.

[B]

Totally could see that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right. Like, so El Jefe. I mean, I left town for six years between 2011, 2017, because my mom had late stage cancer, and I pretty much traveled the world and learned cancer and took her to all these different clinics and so forth, and then she passed. And at that point I was like, what am I going to do? And I looked back, I had a bunch of projects, but I was like, I feel like I want to establish myself as somebody that not just. I don't really want to make a statement. I want to move people. Like, that was my goal. And the story of this kid and what he goes through, I'd already written it, you know, before the border or anything was being talked about. And I thought, I can raise money to do this. So I pieced it together through friends and family. I had tried for years getting it made in the system. It's been rejected. It was rejected a thousand times.

[B]

So what do you make of that speak? I mean, because in some sense, you kind of defended the system in some ways, that a system has to exist and there's Reasons. It makes sense. But you couldn't get your piece through.

[A]

I couldn't get my piece through. And I think the system has changed. I think the system of the last 10 years is not the system of 30 or 40 years ago. What I mean, so I do think the systems change. And I. I didn't like that they weren't willing to support me because whatever political ideology was in the movie didn't work for Hollywood at the time. At the same time, there's no stars, there's no werewolves, there's. It's not a horror movie, you know, it didn't fit in those boxes. I was told, dude, who wants to see a movie about a mute Mexican kid who sold to a sweatshop? Nobody. And that's. That's why I had to find money for it myself. And I actually invested in the movie and worked on it for free.

[B]

So what's it like to put together a movie like this where you have to kind of. Because you're creating art, but it. But obviously you have to do some deep dives on some pretty horrible stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I was lucky in what happened to me is when I started, I found this guy who's still a really good friend. His name's Ruben Rosales. He's now the head of the Wage and Hour Division for the Department of Labor for all the West Coast. And he was the head of, like, California when I met him years ago. He guided me. He was the one. And funnily enough, you know, he's been in the Labor Department for 40 years. And from the moment I started writing, I had contacted him and he was sort of feeding me cases. He was like, this is back in 2012. He's like, you know, we just found like, 30 migrant children at a. In a garage in the Bay Area, and they're making cabinets that are ending up at Marriott Courtyards. And he would send. And at that time, the mainstream media wasn't reporting it at all. It wasn't being talked about, you know, So I had a lot of help, like, from him. And I did my own research. And back in the day, like in 2011, 2012, you could walk to downtown LA and there were these buildings. They're called the Anjac buildings, the fashion buildings. And you could just walk in, and there's just rows and rows of Asians and Latinos that are sewing, and they've got their headphones on and they're super afraid, and there's like a foreman. And they were all out in the open. I mean, they weren't bonded laborers, they could go home, but they were being paid like a dollar an hour and stuff, and it was out the open.

[B]

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[A]

Through all of this. By far, the most shocking thing was in 2021, I was in Mexico City and I was working on the movie, and this guy from the Labor Department calls me and he goes, I'm gonna tell you something. He said, the current administration is allowing these kids to come across the border. And the kids are being processed by ICE and they're being transported then to Uncle Juan in Arizona. And we're now looking at the files going, we've sent 900 to Uncle Juan in Arizona. He isn't an uncle. And he said, we're giving them meals and we're paying to transport them. And he told me, mo, this is gonna hit big. This is gonna come out in the media. He told me two years before Hannah Dreier's article in the New York Times, that that was for me, the most shocking thing, the number of children. You know what I mean? Cause, you know, this stuff is happening in India and Pakistan. It should not be happening in California, in la, and certainly not even in this country.

[B]

So why? What was the reason they told you it was allowed to continue? It was just. It was just a machine that was operating and nobody wanted to be the one to take the heat to, I guess.

[A]

And I, and I, and I was told they didn't know, like, for A long time they were genuinely saying, okay, we're letting these kids in. They're asylees, you know, we're going to process them and we're going to ship them out. Like that's. And it was really late on. And then, you know, it doesn't matter what end of the political spectrum you are. We all know political parties for the most part will cover stuff up when they've made a mistake. Everyone does. I know. I don't see politicians going, yeah, I made a mistake. Like there's always some kind of COVID up. Right? Like, yeah, so that's what I think happened.

[B]

So you, so you're writing the script, you're. So you're sort of basically pulling pieces from lots of real stories. How do you kind of make the narrative arc that becomes the fictitious arc within that?

[A]

So, you know, I drew on the experiences of my dad, really. And, and I say all the time, I, I did the movie was screened at the Academy and in the Q and A, they were like, why did you make this movie? And I was like, well, Jesus is my father. Cesar, the guy who runs the sweatshop, is my father. El Jefe, the guy who controls. They're all my father at different stages because he was, you know, an authoritarian in the house. And it was get straight A's or you take the belt. And so me and my brother grew up in this very, almost slave typ where there was a lot of beatings if we didn't comply. So a lot of my personal story, a lot of my dad's story is where the characters came from and people I know also in interviewing people and actually going and meeting sort of workers when they were out in the open and seeing sort of, you know, how they interacted. And of course you take ideas from other movies. Right.

[B]

So you finished the script 2011.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now you have this six year step away, basically, you decide to come back, you've got the script. Now you have to raise money, right?

[A]

Now I gotta raise money.

[B]

But you didn't need a ton of money. No, you didn't. What do you need?

[A]

$3 million.

[B]

You need 3 million bucks, which sounds like a lot of money to a lot of people. But to make a film is obviously on the very small, it's very, very low side. Yeah, but not the easiest thing to do when you're talking politics and borders, racism and children and trafficking and all of those things.

[A]

What was that like? So truthfully, it wasn't. When I was raising the money for the movie in 2018, 20 end of 2017. We started. It wasn't that big a deal, you know what I mean? It wasn't this big, like political issue. More of, hey, look at what's happening to these children.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And the way I did it was me and an old friend of mine who was the head of Viacom in Canada. He was sort of wanting to leave Viacom and become a producer. We made a video where we talked about the issue and why we want to make this film and how films can inspire change. And we made this like eight minute video and we were funded in 60 days.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, that's what had that eight minute. We sent it out like, you know, it was banging down every door. It was like, cousins, give me 50 grand. Like that's how you do it.

[B]

Right? So it's not exactly Rocky, which he wrote the script, but then was basically told, okay, maybe we'll take the script, but you can't be part of it and all that stuff.

[A]

But.

[B]

But the journey to get there. He had a long. Sylvester had a long journey to get Rocky finally made. So you have a long journey for a series of other reasons. But, okay, so now you've got the cash, you've got the script, you're ready to go, you start making. Was it you're technically your first.

[A]

Yeah, it was my first film as a director. Yeah. I hadn't directed anything before, I knew I wanted to, but I had written stuff that was much bigger. And everyone was like, hey kid, no one's giving you $50 million to make your first movie. You gotta start with something like this. So yeah, it was my first, but I had worked as a fix it guy for a while. So what that means is producers would call me and say, hey, this movie sucks. We want you to do two days of reshoots and re edit the movie. And it was like, I get to learn while at the same time being paid and while at the same time working on someone else's movie. So I did that for a long time that happened. Cause as a producer, producer, I had sold a movie years ago off a trailer and the movie wasn't good and then I had to fix it. So it was kind of known amongst town that, hey, this guy had done this. And so I was brought in. So I had a lot of experience on set by the time I went to shoot the movie. But it was my first film.

[B]

Right, so is that a weird thing that your first thing is you're writing and directing your first thing? Because you're saying sort of that's kind of the way it's done now, a little bit more because of what you mentioned earlier with the actors, but that's a little different.

[A]

It is. And I think of myself as, like, an average writer. Like, I would love to go, you know, like, Steven Spielberg doesn't write. He's not the greatest writer. The stuff he's written isn't the greatest. I couldn't get the scripts that I wanted. I tried. There was a bunch of scripts over the years that I'd read that I'd even bid on that I was gonna pay for myself. But they went to studios, they went to bigger directors. And that's when I said, look, I'm gonna have to sit down and write something myself or go make something crack app that someone else. Because CAA and William Morris are not sending mo war the world. You know, that's just how it is, right? Like, so. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so you get the money, you're writing, you're directing, you complete the film. Did you feel. Were you, like, all right, we did it. We're good. Now let's, like, go to market and see what happens. Because this is where the story gets a little sideways, which I think will really get in the minds of my audience.

[A]

Exactly. So first of all, making the movie was an odyssey. So I just want to say that, like, it wasn't a normal. Like a normal independent film shoots for nowadays anywhere between 18 and 23 days. Right. We shot for. Is that right? Yeah, 18 to 23. Yeah. That's how. For independent films, because it's expensive, so you have to, you know, box everything down. I shot for 70 days, and it was kind of a joke amongst some of my crew, like, this guy thinks he's making Apocalypse now, you know, like, so. So it was shot over three years because what happened was I started shooting and I ran out of money, like, while I was shooting. And again, it was kind of like the universe I felt was guiding everything right before I was running out of money. Alfonso Cuaron's producing partner, Gabby Rodriguez, who was, you know, who produced Roma and all of his movies, she was on set and she told my producer, wow, this looks amazing. You should support this director and give him whatever you want. So he came up to me, and I was like, well, I need another million bucks. Like, you know what I mean?

[B]

Like, and so you always need another mil.

[A]

Yeah, you always. Exactly, exactly. So it sort of kept going. We finished in the fall of 2022, and I, at that point, we've gone through the pandemic. We've gone through the MeToo movement. We've gone through George Floyd, Black Lives Matter. And nobody wanted to see this also because it was a. You know, it's considered a dark subject matter. I don't consider it to be dark. I consider narcos and euphoria. The celebration of drug dealers and teenage sex is not dark. But, you know, this seems to be dark. It's sor of was driving me insane. No one wanted to see it. I couldn't get anyone to see it. And I was in Mexico City and I was mixing at this very famous stage called Churubusco, where David Lean. Sorry, David lynch, mixed Dune, the original Dune. I was there and I recognized this guy. He had, like, long red hair, and his name's Luis Mendoki, and he's a very, very sort of famous Mexican director. He directed When a Man Loves a Woman and Message in a Bottle with Costner. And, you know, he done this movie called Gabby that was Mexico entry to the Oscars. He'd done a movie that inspired City of Dreams called Innocent Voices about child soldiers in Chile. That was also Mexico's entry to the Oscars in 2006. I walked up to him and I was like, will you watch my movie? I'm a big fan. But he watched it and he was like, wow, I. I love it. How can I help? And I was like, I don't have any money. I need you to promote it for free. And he was like, okay, I'll do it. And then he brought in Yalita Parisio, who. Who had just been nominated a couple years prior for an Academy Award for Roma. She was the lead actress of Roma and kind of an icon to indigenous people. Brought her. She watched the movie and she was like, I love this. What can I do? And I was like, I don't have any money, but I need you to promote this for free. And she was like, great. I came back to the states, end of 2022. No one cared. It was like, okay, so you've got this Mexican director and this woman, and who cares? Everyone's doing bigger things.

[B]

It was also just a very weird time in the country. I mean, the backdrop of a couple of the things that you mentioned, BLM and Covid. It was just like a bizarre cultural time. Nobody understood what the hell was going on and everything else.

[A]

Yeah. And I think I didn't. Again, I didn't fit in the box. And one of the things that absolutely hurt me in Hollywood was that I wasn't Latino. And I will tell you that when I got Back from Mexico. There was a few. I, I would love to mention their names and just throw them under the bus, but I'm working on diplomacy. So you want to just, you could just write them down. Yeah, yeah. They, they run these organ, these like Hispanic media organizations. And I got on zooms with them and they would ask me like, so how many Latinos were in front behind the camera? And I'm like, well, it was shot in Mexico and it's 90%. Okay. How many Latinos were involved in the producing? Well, we have Luis and Yalitsa. And how many Latinos were involved in the writing and directing? And I'm like, oh, you want to go after me? I'm like, I'm an Indian. I'm an immigrant. I was born in India. My father worked in a sweatshop. And you're now saying that because of the color of my skin being different to yours, I can't tell this story.

[B]

Sorry, brother. Know, shade of brown don't count. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, are you kidding me?

[B]

Like, were you genuinely shocked? Because, because, because me hearing that, I'm like, of course that was going to happen.

[A]

But no, I was gen. I couldn't. I was so naive. Because what had happened was the film had been rejected by every film festival and I didn't get it. And initially, you know, I'd signed with, with an agency and they had said to me, look, look, the film industry is recovering and the, the, the festivals, they want big star movies. Like, all of a sudden Harrison Ford is going to Cannes and Tom Cruise to promote there. That's not what was being shown at Cannes 10 years ago. And at the same time, they were like, your film doesn't fit into what they're looking for. And I'm like, what are they looking for? And they're looking for specific, you know, ideologies. And your film doesn't fit that. And I heard many times, mo, because you're not a Latino, like, if you had a Mexican last name, your film would have gotten in like that. I don't know if any of that's true, but it drove me insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because no, how can no festival. Like, no festival took us except one. We got into one small California based festival. So that's when, yes, I was genuinely surprised. I was hurt, I was angry. I didn't understand. I thought about, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. Like, it really. It was a dark time.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You feel like you're kind of being pushed out, but you got a nice film.

[A]

So what happens? This is what happened. This was the turning point. I was. When I get depressed, I start going to yoga every day. I stop drinking, I get health. I'm going to yoga every day. And one day I'm in the changing room and there's this old guy. He's come out of the shower, and he's butt naked, and he's standing like this, and he's going, hey, kid, can you get me a towel? And it just hit me. I was like, yeah, I can, but I need you to do something for me. And he's standing there naked, holding himself.

[B]

This story is going to get very weird.

[A]

No, no, no, it's not. He's standing there going, are you gonna get me the towel? And I'm like, yeah, but I need you to watch my movie. And he was like, fine, go get me the towel. So I go, I get him the towel. And he like, so he's standing there and he's like, so for the last eight years, you say hello to me. And like, this is what it's all been about.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I was like, no, I. I say hello to you. But I mean, I. I know who you are. And this guy, his name's Michael Phillips, he produced the Sting. He produced Taxi Driver, produced Closing Counters a third time. He brought Guillermo del Toro to America, produced his first movie, Mimic. I mean, he's a legend. You know, there's been books written about his wife, Julia Phillips was the first female that won an Oscar. She produced the Sting with him. So he was like, all right, I'll watch your movie. And I was like, I want to set up a screening. He's like, yeah. And no, I'm like, can I have your number? He's a, yeah. No, I'm like, all right. And you Know, Dave, you know me a little bit. I can be pushy. You know, kind of like how are not shy? No, no. It's kind of like how I roped you into having me on your show. Right? It's kind of. Kind of that thing. So this guy agrees to watch a movie. I sent him a link, and it was. It was. It was a life changing moment. He calls me three days later and he goes, I got good news for you. And I got bad news. And I was like, all right. And he goes, the good news is what makes a great storyteller is that he shows you a world in a completely unique way. So you know what this world is. But he. He demonstrates it in a way you could have never imagined. That's what makes a Scorsese. And you know, and he goes, you did that? And I was like, wow. And he goes, here's the bad news. Everyone in Hollywood is so ignorant and stupid right now. They're not going to recognize this. They don't care about this. They would have cared more if Matt Damon was in your movie, whereas in the old days, somebody would have gone, oh, my God, give this guy a seven pitcher Warner Brothers, right? And so you're going to have a tough time, and I'm willing to help you in any way I can. And I was like, great, Write letters to Dinero Guillermo del Toro. And he did. He started, like, connecting me. And through him, I ended up having a screening. Like, you know, you meet one person and another and another. So that was in February of 2023. In September, Mayor Karen Bass organized the screening of the movie at lapd, and through Michael Phillips, I met someone who met someone. I got to Roadside Attractions, and Roadside Attractions is the Oscar division of Lionsgate. They did Margin Call, Mud, Super Size Me, all these great films. And I convinced the two presidents to come and watch the movie at lapd. They watched it. They were blown away. We sat down that night and they said, we want to distribute the movie. We've got to deal with Hulu, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that was the beginning of the turn, you know.

[B]

So, okay, so now the movie's out. So now the movie's out.

[A]

No, now the movie has a deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's got.

[B]

Oh, I was jumping ahead. I meant, okay, does anything else happen before the movie comes out?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Biggest thing I was going to.

[B]

I was going to the release.

[A]

So, yeah, we have the distribution deal, but they don't want to give it a bigger release.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're like, we want to do 50 screens. I'm like, I want 500. And they're like, we're going to need more money. And so I then connected in 2024, the F. Like, literally three or four.

[B]

Months later, very amateur question, but why do they need more money? For more.

[A]

For marketing. Because.

[B]

Purely for marketing.

[A]

Purely for marketing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, so if you're going to go out wider, you've got to go in more markets, right? Your radio and your TV ads and stuff. So at that point, I connected with one of the executive producers of Sound of Freedom, and he said he was really moved by the film, and he. He brought an investor who brought the money. But more importantly, he said, okay, I want to build an ambassador program. Program around it. I want to get, you know, a bunch of people who support trafficking, who are known celebrities to w. You know, to promote the film. And I was like, great. And it started with Linda Perry from 4 Non Blondes had written. She loved the movie, and she'd written the song City of Dreams. And I was looking for a Latino to sing it because initially there were ideas of, you know, Chris Stapleton and Jon Bon Jovi, who all I love. But I was afra. Afraid that I'd get in trouble. So I was like, no, no, we're gonna get a Latino.

[B]

You didn't want to get an Indian to sing it? What would happen?

[A]

Yeah, no. So we got Luis Fonzie, who sang Despacito, and, you know, is a huge star. Lovely guy. He joined. And then after that, I got a video message from Tony Robbins. And Tony Robbins saw the movie and was really moved by it. And I went to his house, and I sat down with him, and he said, okay, man, tell me who you want to watch the film. It was like Christmas. I was like, okay, well, I want Sylvester Stallone. I want. And he was like, oh, Sly's my buddy. Like, I'm totally gonna send it to all of these people. Right?

[B]

Yeah, he's the best.

[A]

No, he's right. He got Dr. Oz to watch, and he got all his friends, you know, Dana White and all these guys he sent the movie to, and he got involved, and all of a sudden, all these people started joining. Like, Mike Tyson became an ambassador, did a video for us, and in the middle of that, Vivek Ramaswamy. So this is all before the release, right? Vek Ramaswamy. And I had a phone call, and I was like, hey, man. I was like, you're Indian. Like, me love that, you know? And he was like, I love this film, and I want to support it. And at the time, I told him, maybe we should get someone who's a Democratic presidential candidate and who's. And bring them in so that no one thinks. Because for me, the movie isn't political at all. And I wanted to balance it, but we were so late in the game. And Vivek agreed. And it's not like. And I told Vivek, I said, look, I don't agree with any everything that you say. And he was like, well, mo, but we can still sit down and break bread and discuss it. And that's what I liked about him. And I told him, I said, dude, I've been a Democrat my whole life, right?

[B]

And.

[A]

And you should know that. And he goes, I don't care. I love what you did with this movie. So he joined as an executive producer and all the way up to it, released on August 30. And for me, the crowning moment where I feel my life changed is I'm driving home from Whole Foods two weeks before the release, and Tony Robbins sends me a text message and he goes, happy New Year. Merry Christmas, brother. And I'm like, it's like 3:00 in the afternoon. Is he drinking? Like, he doesn't usually send messages. Right? Right. I was like, what's going on over here? Here? And he sends me a video that Sly has made where Sly is endorsing the film. And I just started crying. I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is so crazy, you know? And then after that, I just got.

[B]

Chills up my spine.

[A]

I mean, yeah, I know what it.

[B]

Was like just meeting the guy. Wow. And here he is, your hero.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

From 20 years before.

[A]

From 20. But here's how much crazier it got. So I then stopped the car. I'm like bawling for about 10 minutes. I leave Tony a voice note and I'm like, I just want to let you know, you know, like, I'm a 40 year old man and I feel like I failed at everything in my life. I'm a failure in every area. I have no family, no kids, no wife. And I said, but today I don't feel like a failure anymore because the guy that affected me has been affected by something. And I tried not to cry during this message, but I did, and Tony got it. And then I sent him another. More polished. Hey, sorry for getting emotional. I just wanted to thank you for making this happen. Tony sends the message of me crying to Sly, and Sly then sends me another video where he's like, wow, that really touched me and I'm so grateful. And if there's anything I can do, and I'm like, yes, post it on your Instagram. And he did. And he did and he did. So it was, it was crazy, right?

[B]

Then you're going, man, am I smacking yourself in the face? Like, am I dreaming? Right?

[A]

I know, it's been pretty crazy.

[B]

So, okay, so fine. So the movie comes out in August of last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I assume that day comes and you're like, holy cow. The long journey is finally, you know, well, you're just sort of at the beginning again. But here we go. Got a little tricky. After a couple days.

[A]

Got a little tricky. This is what happened. So this is when I knew something was wrong. So leading up to the release is the most important week, right? It's the week you do all the press and stuff. Mira Sorvino, Oscar winning actress, is one of our executive producers. Now, Mira Sorvino is a staunch liberal. Linda Perry's obviously a staunch liberal. Right. We've got people like Vivek who are staunch Republicans. And it was great because I felt like we were balanced. And Tony Robbins and I were invited to go on Jesse Waters and on Brett Baer and, you know, we did all these interviews together and Mira Sorvino and I were supposed to go on Morning Joe and they canceled. Like last minute they canceled. And I was like, what is going on? Like, that's kind of weird. We didn't get invited to any of the mainstream media. And it really hurt me because I was like, guys, I'm one of you. Like, I am a Democrat, I'm an immigrant. You guys don't want to talk to me about this movie. I didn't get it. Here's what happened leading up to it as well. All the, like Mike Tyson's post and Stallone's posts and you know, Tony's were all getting sort of limited engagement. And we had this army of influencers that were Latin influencers. Right. Together they had over 300 million followers. Many of them were getting shadow banned on Instagram for posting about City of Dreams, saying this is spreading misinformation about the election. And I'm like, what? Like I. And I saw the screenshots, right? And then of course we know that at the time everyone said, oh, you're crazy. This is just sour grapes because it doesn't look like you're opening up. And then Zuckerberg goes from Joe Rogan and basically says, yes, we were told that we weren't, we weren't supposed to allow certain things to grow.

[B]

Even those had nothing to do with the election per se.

[A]

Had nothing. But I think, and we knew this and, and I love the guys at Roadside Attractions. Howard Nar the two presidents, they told me this is either the election's either going to be a good thing and it's going to explode or it's going to be a bad thing and it's going to crash us. And this is what. And we still did really well. But this is what happened. What. Right as we open, there was a bunch of conservative influencers that went online and started saying that they were going to theaters and the theaters were telling them the movie was sold out and the screens were half empty. They started posting. And again, I'm giving you second hand information because I heard all this.

[B]

I mean I've seen all of these examples. You know what they did. At the height of my last book tour, which was 22, we had people that were buying tickets to my show that literally put the money for the tickets so that people there would be empty seats in the theater. But then we had people overflow for every single single show that took those seats anyway when they realized they weren't even coming. Like, think how twisted these people are. Yeah, like you're going to waste money so that someone has an empty seat. And then that didn't even work. It was so I'll believe anything.

[A]

Yeah, no, no. And I was being sort of told this. And then this is what happened. Because of those organic posts, AMC stock price got affected. And I believe the CEO of AMC called the head of the studio and said, you know, this is not true. We want City of Dreams to make money. And the studio, there was a statement made like the CEO of AMC and our two stud presidents had to come out and say that the, you know, rumors around City of Dreams are complete nonsense. And you know, I'm sort of, for me, I'm very scientific. Like I want evidence, evidence, evidence. Right. For me, the evidence that I found was our show. Times we there was, first of all, we had like 600, I think 600 or 650 screens. So many of them, the majority of them were like hours away from where like, you know, you would watch a movie. I had people saying to me, I have to drive an hour to find a theater. And then. And a lot of these theaters, like on a Saturday, the Showtimes were at 9 and at noon. Who goes to watch a movie like this at nine in the morning or at noon, man. So that really affected our opening.

[B]

And well, what, what do you make of that? So what do you. That's an AMC issue or, Or.

[A]

I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, yeah, I mean, look, that's. We, we booked with all the theater chains. It wasn't just amc, so I can't say it's an AMC issue. But I think in their defense, what they would say, and I don't disagree them, is, look, this movie isn't, Mission isn't. And so it's normal to give these sort of movies like, you know, showtimes away from the main tickets where they need to fill theaters and they're guaranteed the house is going to full. I get that. And I think the mistake in our strategy was had we concentrated like our highest grossing theater was the Empire in New York, which was an amc. Like we made the most amount of money off that theater. And by the way, that's a very liberal, you know, write down in Times Square, you know what I'm talking about. So I feel like we should have concentrated better rather than just sort of going wide.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why I wanted to have you on, because people think of this sort of WOKE thing that we've just gotten out of and cancel culture as just about race specifically or just about gender like the obvious ones. And yet even though there is a racial element, let's say maybe to you directing and the Latino organizations not wanting it, there was also something else going on here just because of the nature of the, the, of the topic, basically, or that it be, or that something that, as you said, wasn't particularly political, at least partisan political, became political. And I think that that's kind of fascinating.

[A]

So I definitely feel that like now looking back, I'm like, and I spoke to someone who is a president level executive at one of the major studios whose name I'm not going to give away. And he said, look, I know what happened to you. And the way he said it, I was like, he knows that this was somehow, you know, stopped from really spreading. And here's more evidence the film has an A cinema score. And that isn't that it's very hard to get that like a lot of great movies that don't get. Air Force One doesn't have an A cinema. You know what I'm saying? It has to get off my plane. Come on, man. You know, or may, I mean, like a lot of great movies don't have that right? And we got an A cinema score and, and our Rotten Tomatoes audience score was 90%. And that's another thing I want to mention. We had a hundred percent amongst critics until all the people that joined, you know, the Vivecs and the Tonys and you know, once they all joined, all of a sudden we got smashed by Variety, by, you know, Roger Ebertzite. And for me, one of the greatest, like where I really understood what they were doing and they were pissed off that I wasn't a Latino and so forth. In the Ebert Report, they gave me zero out of four stars, right? But this was the best they wrote. If this movie's, you know, mission is to raise awareness, done. But it has achieved nothing. Where is the website that tells you how you can help and shape this problem? Where's this? Where's that? And I was thinking, so I'm like, wait, wait, so Christopher Nolan makes Interstellar, which is based on science, and you're going to give him crap about not having a website where he solves the space time continuum? Are you kidding me?

[B]

But like, there was no website where they showed how gravity forced books to fall off the shelf with the sand and everything.

[A]

I, I, I know, I know. So I was kind of like, that's what really, that's when I relaxed and didn't take because, you know, criticism hurts. You work on something and these people are trashing you and you're like. And we had a lot of, I mean, you know, we ended up, I think we're at 54% or something at 53. But we went from 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To for, we were at 100 right up until, you know, and we'd screened at a festival, so we had a bunch of reviews. We'd won that little festival that we went to. So that was also very sort of telling.

[B]

So you're past the theater point, but it's now available all over the place.

[A]

Yeah, it's on Apple, it's on Amazon. And I will say, I really want to credit Tony Robbins. Cause I feel like he really pushed and, you know, the movie came out, it did $1.7 million at the box office, which for a specialty film and Roadside Attractions is excellent for the expectation of what the film should have done in the light of sound effect freedom and all the people that supported it. It was terrible. So it just depends what light you look at it with. And Tony sort of really stuck with me. And I remember I left him this voice telling him I failed everyone and blah, blah, blah. And I got like an 8 minute Tony Robbins seminar message back from him, you know, like. And he picked me up. And what he did, he brought me to Unleash the Power within, which was his event in November where he had sold out the Prudential center. He had 20,000 people. He had 7,000 people on Zoom. And I went with the lead actor of the movie. And we sat right in the front and he introduced me to the whole crowd. And he played the trailer to his crowd and had them go out and start organically post about it. And I got a call from Lionsgate going around Thanksgiving going, what are you guys doing? We're seeing an 82% surge in buys on Amazon since our release. So I'm really grateful because he really wanted to get the message out there. And it has done, you know, well in these other sort of mediums.

[B]

Wow, that's awesome. So what's next? What's next?

[A]

Next? So for me, next, you know, I've been looking at multiple projects as you do as a writer, director and stuff. I am working on launching a company that makes, you know, it's called Impact Media. And it's focused on what I call filling the critical void in heroic cinema, in cinema that celebrates heroes that are exemplary role models to children and don't have these nihilistic, apathetic points of view, which I think Hollywood is obsessed with. Now I'm actually partnered with the former head of Dimension Films and Walden Media and like in. In going forward with that. And I'm on my way to Cuba. I'm actually. I wrote a movie about Havana Syndrome, you know, that whole thing. And so I'M going to. But it is, funnily enough, it's a Harrison Ford movie. In my mind, it's the Fugitive, set in Cuba. That's what the movie's about. So.

[B]

All right. Unfortunately, we have to wrap.

[A]

Of course. We have a heart out here.

[B]

However, next time we do this, can we. Can we do an hour on why the Sopranos is the best television show?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Agree?

[A]

Agreed. Yeah.

[B]

We were honored on that. It was.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me, buddy. Absolutely. Thank you.

[B]

Any reason you rolled through that stop?

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

That your son? Yes. Got any ID for the boy?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Watch the stops.

[A]

To a 2018 red Mustang belonging to a red rich girl. Ramirez. Rise and shine, homie. Rise and shine.

[B]

First shift, 6:30, second shift, 12:30, last shift till 11, and boom, lights out at midnight. You crush it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

There's more of them in there. Well, fake passport isn't going to cut it. Yes, sir. These people have no criminal history whatsoever.

[A]

Kind of busy shining a busy kind.

[B]

We've got evidence that they're harboring illegals. Quest for warrant denied. Copy that. I'd quit poking around. Catch my drift? What is the truth? The truth is that as much as we want to be free.

[A]

We live.

[B]

And we die together. This is America.

[A]

It.