This Is How $892 Billion of Taxpayer Money Is Wasted Every Year | Kat Cammack

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rubin Report

Episode: "This Is How $892 Billion of Taxpayer Money Is Wasted Every Year"

Guest: Congresswoman Kat Cammack
Host: Dave Rubin
Date: December 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Rubin is joined by Florida Congresswoman Kat Cammack for a candid discussion about government waste, legislative gridlock, regulatory reform, and lessons from Florida's governance. Cammack offers an insider's view on almost $900 billion in unauthorized government spending and the challenges of codifying policy. The conversation touches on the culture of Congress, the rise of influencer-politicians, big tech, health care reform, and the broader philosophical battle between big and small government. The episode ends with a cautiously optimistic look at 2026.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem of Unauthorized Federal Spending

• Cammack reveals staggering waste:
  • Each year, the federal government spends approximately $892 billion on programs and agencies without Congressional authorization.
  • “$892 billion every single year we are spending in programs and agencies that Congress never greenlit. Kind of crazy.” – Kat Cammack (05:51)
• Origins of the problem:
  • Congress should regularly audit and authorize programs, but currently, about half of appropriated funds are not properly vetted.
  • Even appropriators in Congress hesitate to address the issue for fear of complicating their jobs.

2. Legislative Gridlock and the Failure to Codify Policy

• Congress is falling short:
  • Cammack notes that only 87 executive orders have been codified and just 23 Republican bills became law during the current session—far below expectations.
  • “There’s really no excuse…for why we aren’t banking a conservative win that we’ve campaigned on for decades every single month or week.” – Kat Cammack (03:44)
• Barriers to codification:
  • Resistance in the Senate, especially due to the filibuster and lack of political courage.
  • Cammack is open to eliminating the filibuster, despite institutional concerns, given Democratic preparedness to do so when in power:
    • “I hate to see the institution…the framework be bent…But I see that it’s gonna happen. So we should be playing by the same rules.” – Kat Cammack (06:58)

3. Regulatory Reform as a Solution

• Regulatory costs and reform:
  • Enforcement and compliance with federal regulations costs Americans an estimated $2.5 trillion per year.
  • Cammack promotes the REINS Act as a major step in both restoring Congressional responsibility and saving money:
    • “When we’re talking about regulatory reform…this is how you ensure an American renaissance…The REINS Act…saves $2.5 trillion in the very first year.” – Kat Cammack (07:55)
• Empowering voters:
  • The goal is to return power from unelected bureaucrats back to elected officials—“putting the power back in the hands of we the people.” (08:21)

4. The ‘Entertainment Era’ and Influencer Politics

• Congress as performance:
  • Cammack describes Congress as being in its “entertainment era”—influencer-politicians seek headlines and online engagement over policy work:
    • “Let me say something a little bit saucy, sassy, cringy, outrageous…so I can get that click, that share, and that attention…” – Kat Cammack (08:44)
  • This shift is attributed largely to the rise of social media.

5. Florida as a Model State

• “Make America Florida”:
  • Cammack and Rubin discuss Florida’s success with limited government, opportunity, and innovation:
    • “Florida is a land of opportunity. Right. Because Florida gets it…For the longest time we campaigned on Make America Florida.” – Kat Cammack (10:05)
• Property taxes and insurance:
  • Cammack supports targeted reform, especially homestead exemptions for primary residences, to provide relief from high property taxes and insurance premiums.
  • There’s concern for rural areas lacking tax base for services, suggesting reforms must differentiate between primary and secondary homes (12:04).
  • On insurance: More competition and tort/regulatory reform are needed to bring private firms back and reduce premiums, especially after multiple natural disasters (13:29).

6. The Allure and Dangers of Big Government

• Big government vs. small government:
  • Cammack sees Washington divided more by government size than party: the “party of big government” vs. the “party of little government” (15:17).
  • Big government, she argues, is “intoxicating” and fosters dependency and control:
    • “The agenda for the left has always been dependency and control…grow the size of government…” – Kat Cammack (15:31)
• Cultural shift needed:
  • Advocates making “independence sexy again” to shift the culture away from government solutions.

7. The Rise of Populism and Its Risks

• Populism on the right:
  • The conservative movement is swayed by populism, which Cammack warns can be dangerous without principles:
    • “Populism without principles is a very dangerous thing. Look no further than the French Revolution. People started losing their heads.” – Kat Cammack (16:47)
  • This is partly due to repeated Republican failures to deliver on promises.
• Policy drift:
  • Some Republicans now support larger government policies, such as perpetuating Obamacare and massive subsidies—evidence that things are “off the rails” (17:13).

8. Optimism for 2026

• People power:
  • Rise of populism and direct constituent engagement means politicians are listening more.
  • Cammack is optimistic about upcoming reforms—especially in health care, regulatory reform, and taking on big tech:
    • “I’d be remiss if, as the resident disruptor in Congress, I didn’t mention our effort to take on big tech…” – Kat Cammack (18:26)
• Hope for midterms:
  • Belief that Republicans can maintain the House if they “make good on our promises.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There are a lot of chicken shit politicians in Washington. I actually campaigned on that, that we need to have the courage to do the thing that is right.” – Kat Cammack (04:59)
• “Congress should be going through and auditing programs and agencies. Half of what we appropriate is not authorized.” – Kat Cammack (05:51)
• “We all live in eras…If we had to put a label on the era that I believe we’re in, it’s the entertainment era. We are in the influencer politician era.” – Kat Cammack (08:44)
• “Populism without principles is a very dangerous thing. Look no further than the French Revolution.” – Kat Cammack (16:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:30] – Cammack discusses unauthorized spending and Congressional gridlock
• [03:44] – Legislative productivity is below expectations
• [04:59] – Barriers to codifying executive actions; Cammack critiques “chicken shit” politicians
• [05:51] – $892 billion in unauthorized spending; need for audits
• [06:37] – Filibuster debate; Cammack’s constitutional concerns
• [07:55] – Regulatory reform; REINS Act details, $2.5 trillion annual regulatory burden
• [08:44] – Congress as an “entertainment era,” influencer-politicians, social media’s impact
• [10:05] – Florida’s success model; “Make America Florida”
• [12:04] – Florida property tax and insurance reform discussion
• [15:17] – Big government vs. small government; addiction to government control
• [16:47] – Rise and risks of populism
• [18:26] – Cammack’s optimism for reforms and 2026 vision

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Tone and Style

Congresswoman Cammack is frank, humorous, and occasionally brash, with a no-nonsense “disruptor” attitude. Dave Rubin keeps the conversation casual and engaging, creating space for deep dives and quick-witted moments alike.

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Summary

This episode is a wide-ranging, candid look at pervasive government waste, legislative inertia, and the clash between big- and small-government philosophies. Kat Cammack’s perspective as a “resident disruptor” in the House offers insight into systemic dysfunction—such as nearly $900 billion in unauthorized spending—and concrete reforms she supports, like regulatory overhaul and state-driven solutions modeled on the Florida experience. While critical of her own party’s shortcomings, she ends on a cautiously optimistic note, seeing renewed constituent engagement and upcoming legislative opportunities as reasons for hope in 2026.

Transcript

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[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

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[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

At some point you just have to put your cards on the table and say we're going to do this. And if the Senate doesn't want to pick it up, that's on the Senate. But that is no excuse as to why we in the House aren't moving things that we know should be going along. Like the USA act, right? I got an email today from a colleague who said I can't sign on to this bill because I'm an appropriator and most of what we appropriate funds to is not authorized. It would my entire job really difficult. That as an American makes my blood boil. Congress should be going through and auditing programs and agencies. Half of what we authorize or half of what we appropriate is not authorized. $892 billion every single year we are spending in programs and agencies that Congress Never greenlit. Kind of crazy.

[Interviewer]

All right. Congresswoman Kat Kamek, it's good to see you. You just mentioned your four month old baby is here in D.C. but.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Where, Where? Now you're here. I know where the child is.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

The child is with, with dad and is supervised, but she is manning the office right now back on Capitol Hill. So all things good.

[Interviewer]

And she's going to the voting floor with you?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Yes, yes. So she actually was the deciding vote on the releasing of the Epstein file. She pushed the button. She's. She's in committee hearings. She's on the floor voting with me. She's in the tunnels in the Capitol. She's doing all the things.

[Interviewer]

Well, I am very happy to see another Floridian. I don't know how you do it, coming to this freezing cold place. You must miss Florida when you come back.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

And we're missing right now the best part of Florida.

[Interviewer]

Like, well, I'm only here for a day, so I, I'll be back tonight. Yes, this is the best time to be. This is the best time to be in Florida. But you are here in D.C. right now. You got like three days left before the whole shop closes down. For a while I've been asking everybody sort of the same question, which is, do you think enough things will be tied up properly before you go home? Or, or is everything going to get punted to next year? Where, where are you at?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Listen, even though I am the eternal optimist, I am disappointed. I don't think that enough, there isn't enough that you could put on the schedule this week to make up for really, I think a slower pace this year. When I sat back and ran the numbers, We've only codified 87 executive orders and we've only made 23 bills, law, Republican bills, law. Now, granted, there is a lot in those bills, and I think that's fair to say. But when we have the House, the Senate, and President Trump, who is an Energizer Bunny, has more energy than most humans. Yeah, there's really no excuse, you know, there's no excuse for why we aren't banking a conservative win that we've campaigned on for decades every single month or week. I mean, it's just, it's a little frustrating. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, so one of the things that. One of the words that's consistently come up from everyone that has sat in that chair today is codified. So why is it that. Well, I understand why it is that so much is being done by the executive action pen, but why is it that you guys are seemingly unable to codify this stuff because if it is not codified, it will all be reversed in approximately three years from now.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

I will tell you, I believe that there are a lot of chicken shit politicians in Washington. I actually campaigned on that, that we need to have the courage to do the thing that is right. And in the Senate, they would say, well, the filibuster, you need 60 votes. And I hear often, well, is this a lawmaking exercise? At some point you just have to put your cards on the table and say, we're going to do this. And if the Senate doesn't want to pick it up, that's on the Senate. But that is no excuse as to why we in the House aren't moving things that we know should be going along, like the USA Act. Right. I, I got an email today from a colleague who said I can't sign on to this bill because I'm an appropriator and most of what we appropriate funds to is not authorized. It would make my entire job really difficult. That as an American.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Makes my blood boil. Like, Congress should be going through and auditing programs and agencies. Half of what we authorize or half of what we appropriate is not authorized. $892 billion every single year we are spending in programs and agencies that Congress never greenlit. Kind of crazy.

[Interviewer]

That is kind of crazy. So what has to. If you were sitting with Trump right now and saying to him, okay, we're at the end of the year, you've angled us in the right way, but we've got to kind of smack a few of these guys, like, what is it you would tell him? Or maybe what is it you have told him?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

So, I mean, I think the President's been very vocal about the filibuster.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

And, and while.

[Interviewer]

So you're on board eliminating the filibuster.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

While I despise the idea that we are going to break an institutional norm, I don't think for one second that the Dems would, Would value that and honor the filibuster, not, not if, but when they ultimately get back in charge. So at this point, it's, you know.

[Interviewer]

I know it's a horrible, It's a horrible decision to have to face.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

It really is. And, and, and I think as a constitutional conservative, which is what I consider myself, I hate to see the institution, the crafting, the framework be bent and broken in different ways, but I see that it's gonna happen. So we should be playing by the same rules that our adversaries Would. So I think he needs to continue to push on that. The other thing that I have been very much pushing for is regulatory reform. Least sexy topic on the planet. It does not get anyone's blood going. And no one's like, ooh, baby, yes. Yeah, it's. It is probably the most boring topic on the planet. But when we're talking about regulatory form, if I was sitting here with President Trump, I would say, Mr. President, this is how you ensure an American renaissance. This is how you ensure your legacy of returning the power back to the people. The Reigns act, our bill, it has seen many, many iterations. It has been on the floor, it's passed the House multiple times. The importance of it is that it saves $2.5 trillion in the very first year, because that's what we as Americans spend in enforcement and compliance of these regulations. And so right there, you're looking at, okay, how do we start addressing deficits? Boom, right there. And when you think about regulatory reform, it's not so much about getting rid of the unelected, nameless, faceless bureaucrats. Right. That's draining the swamp in action.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

But more importantly, it's about putting the power back in the hands of we the people. Because at that point, you can hire and fire your Congress critter. They become responsible for the regulatory regime, not people who are completely untouchable and unknown.

[Interviewer]

Does Congress seem more busted to you now than ever, or is this just a kind of continuation of what you've seen or what your predecessors told you?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

You know, I think much like Taylor Swift, we all live in eras. Right. And if we had to put a label on the era that I believe we're in, it's the entertainment era we are in the influencer politician era. It is the. Let me say something a little bit saucy, sassy, cringy, outrageous, just a little bit more than the person before me. So I can get that click, that share and that attention, because people have realized that the game of, well, if I pay my dues and I, you know, scratch your back and do this, that's not working so much anymore up here. It's very much about the influence that a person brings to the table. And a lot of that has to deal with social media. And I think social media, as you know, more than most, is driven largely by this entertainment era we're in.

[Interviewer]

That's an interesting idea I'll use for the next year. I'll credit you for it. Well, well, this will be seen, but I'll. When I bring it up again because the idea that the old thing didn't work for a certain set of reasons. Now we've ushered in a new thing. But there's obviously a lot of reasons that's not going to work too long term. It can maybe work short term. All right, so let's leave the stuff that's not working for a moment. Let's talk about Florida because that is a place that things are working. What are you, what are you excited about right now in Florida? And what do you want to see change, if anything has to change? Or what are the kind of new places you're looking for?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Florida is a land of opportunity. Right. Because Florida gets it. And for the longest time we campaigned on Make America Florida. Yeah. And now you look at the White House, you look at Congress, you look at really all things in politics, Republican politics. It's Florida, baby. Right.

[Interviewer]

That Florida blueprint note. I still say Florida because I am from New York. I can't say it the other way.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Yeah, you got that little, you got that little swing.

[Interviewer]

What it is. It is what it is. Yeah.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Do you ever have moments where it really comes out, the accent?

[Interviewer]

Well, I always feel it when I'm speaking in Florida because everyone's like, it's Florida. But I also say orange juice. Not orange juice.

[Tax Network USA Announcer]

It just.

[Interviewer]

I'm from Long Island. It is what it is.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

It like what is.

[Interviewer]

But I'm very conscious of it. Like when I did the Sunshine Summit and I had to keep saying Florida over and over.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

I don't really, I don't. I don't hear it as much though.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it's Florida. You say Florida, Florida, Florida.

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[Interviewer]

Florida. I say Florida.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Are you. Do you consider yourself a Florida man?

[Interviewer]

Yes, that's what my Twitter bio says for years. By the way, it's my four year Florida anniversary tomorrow.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Is it really? Okay, well, then we must celebrate.

[Interviewer]

They're burying me in the Everglades.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Well, you know the Florida man website, every day has a new story. So you got to do something crazy like take over a Burger King. With an army of turtles or, you.

[Interviewer]

Know, wrestle an alligator with a baby in its mouth and.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Cigar and.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Absolutely. But you got to have like the cut off jeans and maybe, you know, I don't know, a sombrero or something. Sombreros are hot right now.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, they're still hot.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Right.

[Tax Network USA Announcer]

So what do we have to do?

[Interviewer]

What else do we have to do in Florida? What else is going on? I mean, what do you think about the property tax situation? That's. That's a big one, obviously.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

So I think everyone is very much in. In support of the property tax reforms, and obviously. So, I mean, you look at, especially as a Floridian, we're like, man, can we catch a break? It's our home insurance. It's our auto insurance. The property taxes are through the roof. I live in Gainesville, so I have gru, which is like the worst of the worst. And so I think it's a very, very exciting idea. Now, rural parts of the state, which is a huge part of the state, they're very worried about it, and rightfully so, because they don't have the tax base to really ensure those critical services are going to be met. So we have to look at a smart way of doing it. I think it should be for primary residences. I think that we should be making the homestead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically taking the homestead route and saying, like, listen, if it's a secondary home, yeah, tough. But I think for the primary residents, it's a huge opportunity for people to get some relief, especially while we're trying to address all of the insurance rates on our homes. Because right now I know people who. Their premiums are higher than their monthly mortgage, and that's a problem.

[Interviewer]

What do you think can be done on the insurance side? I mean, that's always the big one. You know, fortunately, we haven't. Now, it's been what, maybe, maybe two years since. No, it's been less than two years since a massive hurricane. We had. Well, Helene and the other one, Knock on hood. No, I'm in Miami. And we fortunately haven't had one since. But obviously the west coast and the north has been hit really hard. And what. What can be done with that?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

I mean, in my district, we took three hits in 13 months, direct hits. In our district, I think competition is really the answer for so many things, including the insurance debacle. And what we've seen is through the ambulance chasers, all the people that were bad actors in the space, the trial attorneys, remember the roofing companies that, I mean, that was driving up the costs everywhere. I think that the legislature did an okay job. I would like for them to have been more aggressive because some people, especially those on fixed incomes, they don't have time to wait for these companies to come back into the fold.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

And for that to equalize out. So I think there's more that can be done, but it has to. We have got to deal with the tort reform. We have to deal with the regulatory reform. That's going to be a huge part in bringing the competition back into the space and that will ultimately bring down premiums.

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[Interviewer]

When you show your colleagues, I would say Democrat, but even some Republicans, the success of Florida. Why are they not just replicating it across the board?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Well, it's a little philosophical. I think the answer here coming up to Washington, and I had been a chief of staff and now a member, you don't really have Republicans and Democrats. You have the party of big government and then you have the party of little government.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Right. And I think that there is something very intoxicating for people about big government. And that's why I always, you know, people say, oh, you know, Nancy Pelosi's doing this or Hakeem Jeffrey's doing that. And I'm like, it's not that one issue that they're hungry for. It's always the agenda for the left has been dependency and control.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

You know, grow the size of government so that they, the big government advocates stay in control.

[Interviewer]

Right. They always say it's not the issue is never the issue, the revolution is always exact.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Exactly. And so I think when you're talking about why do blue states, you know, maybe balk at the success of Florida or maybe can't replicate it. It's because big government is. It's addictive and it's, you know, oh, well, government's going to take care of this one thing only. They can take care of another thing and then another thing. And I think we need to make independence sexy again, because at the end of the day, that's what small government is about. Right. It's about that. That responsibility, independence, value of the individual. And. And that is a cultural issue that we have to address.

[Interviewer]

How do you think we address that? Because I do. There does seem to be even growing on the right now more of a desire to have the government involved in things where maybe 10 years ago there was more of a libertarian streak.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

I think that that's the right. That's due to the rise of populism. Right. And populism without principles is a very dangerous thing. Look no further than the French Revolution. People started losing their heads. Yeah, right, exactly. I think that that is part of the entertainment era that we're in. It has given rise because conservatives. Because Republicans have not done the things that they said that they would do. People get mad, they get frustrated, rightfully so. If I had somebody who kept promising all day long and making good on none of it, of course I'd be angry and I'd be looking for change. And I think that's where this very strong populist streak has emerged from, is that frustration. But again, long term, you start to see the impacts of that when you have Republicans all of a sudden being like, yeah, I'm good with. With this idea. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. I thought we were conservatives. I thought we wanted less government. When I have Republican colleagues that are talking about perpetuating Obamacare, Holy shit. That's a sign that things are off the rails when you're talking about, okay, we're going to give $400 billion to big insurance companies to keep the sick care system in place. That's a problem. And I think sometimes people are more worried about the next election than they are doing the right thing.

[Interviewer]

Then, on that note, last question. Paint me a positive vision for what will happen in 2026. To leave us with, gosh, I feel.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Like I've been such a Debbie Downer.

[Interviewer]

No, no, no, no. You've been. I'd say, out of the dozen or so people, you've been kind of right, right in the middle. So far, I've had a couple depressing ones. Couple kind of over the top.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Oh, okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. So this will decide it right now.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Oh, I will say I do think that given the rise of and there's good things that come with this populist streak. Right. The power of the people is amplified. I think that members are listening more carefully to their base, to their constituents, which is a good thing. So I am very optimistic that people who are hungry for change are getting out there and they're being heard in a more direct way. So I think that's a good thing. I am optimistic that we will have some more big reforms, hopefully in the health care space. And I would love to see regulatory reform. But I would be remiss if, as the resident disruptor in Congress, I didn't mention our effort to take on big tech. I think we will see a bill to actually take on big tech for the first time in a long time hit the floor first quarter, second quarter. And I do think that we have an opportunity to keep the House in the midterms if we make good on our promises.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well then that was gonna be my part two of the question. You've done it. Merry Christmas and I'll hopefully see you in Florida.

[Congresswoman Kat Cammack]

Yes, Merry Christmas.

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[Mrs. Claus]

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