Trump Is About to Let Ai Destroy the Working Class, Here's How to Stop It | Ro Khanna

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Trump Is About to Let AI Destroy the Working Class, Here's How to Stop It"

Podcast: The Rubin Report
Host: Dave Rubin
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna
Date: December 26, 2025

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Overview

In this wide-ranging interview, Congressman Ro Khanna (D-CA), a leading voice from Silicon Valley, joins Dave Rubin for a frank discussion about the threat of artificial intelligence (AI) to working-class Americans, the politics of the Democratic Party, free speech, drug policy, and the challenges confronting both local and national governance. With a focus on the impact of emerging technologies on jobs and the American middle class, Khanna outlines policy ideas to ensure the AI revolution benefits workers, not just billionaires. The conversation also explores party divides, foreign policy, and the state of California governance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of AI and the Future of Work

[01:00–07:33]

• Silicon Valley’s Prosperity vs. Working Class America:

  • Khanna notes the immense wealth of tech firms in his district (Apple, Google, Nvidia, Broadcom, Tesla) but questions whether AI will benefit all Americans or just the wealthy.
  • Quote: “If you want an America that is going to help families and kids where I grew up ... [not just] more trillions of dollars in my district, we've got to make sure that the AI revolution is pro American citizen and pro worker and not just pro tech billionaires.” (Ro Khanna, 01:00)

• Critique of Trump’s AI Approach:

  • Khanna criticizes Trump for aligning with tech billionaires and focusing on accelerating AI and technology exports—potentially at the expense of American jobs.
  • Quote: “My biggest criticism of Trump ... is he's just got these tech billionaires that are saying, okay, let's sell chips to China, let's have a White House ballroom, let's have AI accelerate. And I don't, I don't think that's the forgotten American.” (Ro Khanna, 01:33)

• Protecting Workers Amidst Innovation:

  • Khanna wants to preserve truck driving and other at-risk jobs by ensuring technology augments rather than replaces workers.
  • He draws a parallel to pilots being present in planes despite automation for safety and oversight.

• Policy Ideas for an Equitable AI Revolution:

  • Reverse current tax incentives that favor automation over human employment.
  • Embed “human-in-the-loop” regulations, ensuring humans remain involved in vital roles.
  • Share productivity gains from AI with workers, not just shareholders.
  • Quote: “Right now we have a tax code that incentivizes automation ... I would reverse the tax code to make it possible to hire people in instead of hiring robots.” (Ro Khanna, 06:10)

2. Democratic Party Direction & Bipartisanship

[02:54–03:33, 07:33–09:56]

• State of the Democratic Party:

  • Khanna observes recent Democratic successes in various states, noting renewed support from Latino, Asian American, and suburban voters, but acknowledges anxiety about AI and the economy persists.
  • He emphasizes the need for the party to focus on “forgotten Americans” and those left out of the economic boom.

• Dialogue Across Political Divides:

  • Both host and guest bemoan the current reluctance to engage in spirited but respectful debate.
  • Khanna expresses willingness to criticize figures on both sides, including condemnation of right-wing antisemitism and extremism.
  • Quote: “We’ve all retreated to our corners where we're so afraid of the slightest disagreement or criticism.” (Ro Khanna, 02:10)

• Condemnation of Antisemitism:

  • Khanna unequivocally condemns those who justified October 7th and terrorist actions, and stresses his stance on Israel’s right to exist and the need for a peaceful two-state solution.
  • Quote: “I absolutely unequivocally condemn the people who said that October 7 was in any way justified. It was horrific. It is wrong.” (Ro Khanna, 09:17)

3. Drug Policy, Fentanyl Crisis, and Law Enforcement

[13:26–18:27]

• On Drug Trafficking and Fentanyl Deaths:

  • Rubin frames the issue of illicit drugs entering the U.S. as “low-grade warfare” and argues most Americans support using force—even lethal—against drug traffickers.
  • Khanna distinguishes between anti-narcotics efforts and military interventions in foreign countries (specifically Venezuela), arguing that Americans are tired of regime change wars and prefer focusing on domestic issues.

• Moral & Ethical Standards in Enforcement:

  • Khanna urges maintaining a higher moral standard—not defaulting to lethal force against surrendering traffickers.
  • Quote: “We are Americans. We have a higher, higher standard ... we don't like killing people without process and certainly if they're unarmed.” (Ro Khanna, 16:40)

• Need for Domestic Reform:

  • Khanna agrees the Democratic Party must do more to tackle open drug culture and crime in American cities, naming successful mayors who have cracked down on these issues.

4. Critique of California Governance

[19:33–20:29]

• Contrasts in California Leadership:

  • Praises reform-minded mayors (e.g., Dan Lurie in San Francisco) over Gavin Newsom’s earlier tenure, citing their more effective handling of public safety and homelessness.
  • Acknowledges persistent problems: lack of affordable housing, high unemployment, high costs, need for more jobs, and public safety reforms.

• Quote:
  “We don't build enough housing. We did not do enough on the issue of homelessness. We have not done enough on the issue of basic public safety and drug culture. We've got high unemployment... I'm all for reform in Sacramento.” (Ro Khanna, 19:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the AI Revolution:

  • “The AI revolution has to be for people, not just for all the money going into my district.” (Ro Khanna, 07:13)

• On Political Courage:

  • “You're supposed to have spirited debate and conversation. I don't understand why we've all retreated to our corners...” (Ro Khanna, 02:10)

• On Moral American Identity:

  • “We believe we're a nation of faith ... most people believe in the human dignity of every person. We, we don't like killing people without, without process.” (Ro Khanna, 16:40)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 01:00–03:46 – Khanna on AI’s impact, critique of Trump, working-class concerns
• 03:52–07:13 – Jobs and automation; tax code and regulatory policies for AI
• 08:38–09:56 – Condemnation of right-wing extremism and antisemitism
• 12:58–13:26 – Democratic Party’s path forward and focus on forgotten Americans
• 14:19–16:40 – Drug policy, Venezuela, U.S. military posture
• 16:40–18:27 – Standards in use of force, drug trafficking, American values
• 19:33–20:29 – Critique of California governance, homelessness, public safety

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is candid, nuanced, and solution-oriented, with Khanna positioning himself as both a tech-savvy reformer and a champion of worker protections. He is sharply critical of both his own party’s failings and the excesses of tech-driven capitalism, while also appealing for higher standards in policy and public discourse. Rubin pushes for clarity, especially around drug enforcement and urban challenges, creating space for both agreement and honest disagreement.

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In summary:
This episode is a deep dive into the crossroads of technology, work, and politics in America. Khanna calls for bold reforms to steer the AI revolution toward broader prosperity while advocating for a more ethical standard in both domestic and foreign affairs. The discussion is accessible for listeners across the political spectrum who are concerned about the future of work, American values, and the state of the Democratic Party.

Transcript

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[Ro Khanna]

Apple, Google, Nvidia, Broadcom and Tesla. $18 trillion. And if you want an America which is just going to put more trillions of dollars in my district, do nothing. If you want an America that is going to help families and kids where I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, where Fearless Works Steel shut down, which is going to help people in Ohio and Michigan, then we've got to make sure that the AI revolution is pro American citizen and pro worker and not just pro tech billionaires. The guy from Silicon Valley saying this, you've got people like Bannon and Tucker Carlson and all saying this. And yet my biggest criticism of Trump, my fundamental criticism is he's just got these tech billionaires that are saying, okay, let's sell chips to China, let's have a White House ballroom, let's have AI accelerate. And I don't, I don't think that's the forgotten American.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

All right, Congressman Ro Khanna, it's good to see you again. One Democrat who will respond to not just talk to me, but respond even when we put these requests out.

[Ro Khanna]

So back to the back in the hot seat. I'm a glutton for punishment.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Look at us. We look, we look like long lost brothers. We're dressed exactly the same. It's good to see you.

[Ro Khanna]

It's good to see you. And I appreciate the text because people don't realize it's not always like, hey, how are you doing? Nice to see you. It's, what the hell are you thinking? You know, and I, I, I think that that's healthy. You're supposed to have spirited debate and conversation. And I don't understand why we've all retreated to our corners where we're so afraid of the slightest disagreement or criticism.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Yeah, well, you mentioned to me right before we started that the last time we did this, we had, you know, agreement and disagreement on a wide variety of things. Of course, the one thing that went viral was that was the trans thing, which we have some disagreement on. Doesn't really matter. Let me ask you this to start, since you are the only Democrat who will talk to me, what is going on with your party?

[Ro Khanna]

We're right now in a, in a better place than last time I came on and we won in, in Virginia, we won in New Jersey, one in New York.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

We relatively blue places, little purplish in Virginia.

[Ro Khanna]

But when you look at the, the, the swing in the Latino vote, in the Asian American vote, in the suburban vote, a lot of folks have been coming back to the Democrats. I think it's because of the economy. You know, the president promised that he would lower prices on day one, and those prices just haven't come down. People are anxious about AI, you know, about AI taking truck drivers jobs, warehouse jobs, customer service jobs. As a guy from Silicon Valley, I'll tell you that there's concern even, even Tucker Carlson and or Bannon, they said, what are you doing just hanging out with these tech billionaires in, in, in the White House? What are we doing on AI? What are we doing to protect workers?

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

And what do you think he's not doing that he should be doing? I mean, AI is coming and the robots are coming whether we like it or not.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, the AI is coming whether we like it or not. But the question is, are you going to be on the side of the tech billionaires? Are you going to be on the side of ordinary workers? Like, we should protect truck driving jobs. There are 3 million or so truck drivers. I don't want to see 3 million people displaced. We should have truck drivers on truck trucks. We should make sure that we have a vision that says companies need to hire people if they're being displaced in the company itself and bargain with workers.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

So if technology is going to innovate and that we can do this cheaper and more efficiently and all these things because you simply. I mean, I like truck drivers. I used to have an AM radio show. It was truck drivers calling all the time. I found them to be incredibly thoughtful and smart and, you know, they're out there listening all the time, but no one is actually guaranteed a job. So if technology is going to make these things More efficient. What? Where does the government come in to force somebody to oh, you have to have that job even though this company can do it more efficiently and cheaper and everything else.

[Ro Khanna]

A fair question. I mean a lot of times planes can basically fly automatically. I still like the fact that we've got a pilot and a lot of the pilots are there in case there's something that goes wrong. So I think you can, I'm asking.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

You more at a philosophical level than even a functional government level.

[Ro Khanna]

Look, I, I look at it as the industrial revolution in, in Britain for 60 years you had massive wealth generation. Britain became the richest country in, in the world. And yet the working class and middle class were horrendous conditions because technology was simply used for, for eliminating jobs. No consideration for workers. Where workers started to build is when the technology was used not just to eliminate jobs, but to make people more productive. So my view is we need a government incentives that help us use technology in a way that's going to make people more productive, not just to displace labor. And we can talk about how to do that.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Sure. So, so what is that like in the, in the example of the truck drivers that you used? Knowing that we can automate the truck, knowing that there will be drones so that it's not a human that's going to have to literally drop off the package, knowing that these things all exist and are going to continue to exist. So lay out your version that, that would be more human friendly or.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, well, I would say you still have the truck driver on, on the, on the truck to do maintenance, to do drop offs, to make sure that you're dealing with edge cases. That we should have a human in the loop and maybe it makes the driving easier, maybe it makes things less burdensome. Or in other cases, if you have a customer service representative. Okay, now you're using the AI to be better at your job. But I don't want to be fighting with my phone every time where I'm calling a customer service agent to get to a human voice. So right now we have a tax code that incentivizes automation. You basically get a deduction for depreciation, but if you hire a person, you got to pay health care, you've got to pay payroll taxes. I would reverse the tax code to make it possible to hire people in instead of hiring robots. So you have an incentive, don't have a disincentive to hire people. The second thing is I'd have human in the loop regulations that you want to make sure human beings Are there. If you are going to have some form of automation, workers should share in the productivity gains and in the profits. Those are a few ideas but I, in general, I think that the AI revolution has to be for people, not just for all the money. Going into my district, we got $18 trillion, David, in my district. $18 trillion. One third of the entire US stock market is in 50 mile radius in my district. And Apple, Google, although, although as you.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Mentioned right before we started, a lot of those guys are moving pretty close to where I live right now.

[Ro Khanna]

Some of them are moving to where you live, towards the tax breaks. But, but the companies are still there, right? Apple, Google, Nvidia, broadcom and Tesla. $18 trillion. And if you want in America, which is just going to put more trillions of dollars in my district, do nothing. If you want an America that is going to help families and kids, where I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, where Fearless Works Steel shut down, which is going to help people in Ohio and Michigan, then we've got to make sure that the AI revolution is pro American citizen and pro worker and not just pro tech billionaires. The guy from Silicon Valley saying this, you've got people like Bannon and Tucker Carlson and all saying this. And yet my biggest criticism of Trump, my fundamental criticism is he's just got. These tech billionaires are saying okay, let's sell chips to China, let's have a White House ballroom, let's have AI accelerate. And I don't, I don't think that's the forgotten American.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Let me ask you something. So you've mentioned Tucker and Bannon a couple of times. I am seeing a horseshoe version of politics here. Do you have anything negative to say about Tucker Carlson or Steve Bannon or some of these guys on the right?

[Ro Khanna]

Of course, of course. I mean we disagree on a lot of things. I mean we, we disagree on immigration. I mean I, I'm not sure they would have supported the 1965 Immigration act that allowed my parents to come to the United States. We, we certainly disagree on, on, on issues. I mean I very much condemn the groipers and anti Semitism on, on the right. I don't know where they stand on that. So I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I would be unequivocal and in condemning that.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

So when you spoke at that, what was it? The Arab American Conference and they were laughing about not October 7th and all that, you condemn those people that you.

[Ro Khanna]

Were on stage with, I absolutely unequivocally condemn the people who said that October 7 was in any way justified. It was horrific. It is wrong.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Which they said on stage. Just a few.

[Ro Khanna]

Just, just, just to, to be clear, not I spoke at that conference. I spoke at the conference for three days. I mean for, for one hour in a three day conference that they spoke at a future panel. I didn't know about that panel until I saw the clips. When the clip came out I totally, totally unequivocally condemn it. Hamas is a terrorist organization. October 7th was a terrorist.

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[Ro Khanna]

Attack There is no place for Hamas in in in Gaza or the West Bank. Now I've disagreed, as you know, with how Netanyahu is gone about it, but I have unambiguously condemned anti Semitism is awful. The anti Semitism attack in Australia where you just see Jews being targeted and and blown up. We don't know yet with Brown what happened but the professor there taught Jewish studies, immigration studies and let's see what comes out there. There has been a rise of anti Semitism and I fundamentally reject it. And I have always stood for two states. There are people who disagree with me because I've called for a Palestinian state, non Hamas. But I've also said that Israel as a Jewish democratic state has a complete right to security and existence.

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[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

All right, so there's some stuff that obviously you disagree with those guys. I'm glad, I'm glad to hear that, I suppose.

[Ro Khanna]

Do you disagree with them?

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Oh, absolutely. Oh, I think, well, Tucker particularly, I think he's gone off the deep end completely. I mean, he's also saying consistently horrible things about me personally. So. But we can, yeah, we can, we can let that there. I don't need to waste time on Tucker with you. What do you want to see over the next. You know, I've been having mostly Republicans in here where I'm asking them, okay, what do you guys need so the, so that the midterms don't turn into a bloodbath for the Republicans. So you on the Democrat side of that. What do you want to see so that it goes well for you guys in the midterms?

[Ro Khanna]

I want to see us focused on forgotten Americans. I want us to say the system has been rigged. The, that a lot of towns were hollowed out. A lot of working families haven't had a fair shot at the American dream. We're going to be the party that brings good jobs. We're going to be the party that lowers health care costs, child care costs, housing costs. We're going to be the party that brings back the American dream. And by the way, the system was rigged against the working class in this country. We're the party that's going to take on that rigged system.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

I saw over the last couple of weeks, obviously we've had these Venezuelan boats coming in and you know, my position basically has been this is low grade warfare if you're just, just bringing in all these drugs into our country. And to ME it's an 8020 issue for Trump where I don't think that the average person in America cares if you blow up narco terrorists. I saw you wanted to either haul hegseth in front of Congress about the double tap and all that. I don't think people really care. And people can say that's cold or something if someone's bringing drugs on a boat into America. We have had, I think 50,000 fentanyl deaths last year alone. We've seen what it's done to our cities. I just don't think people care. I don't care that much about narco terrorists that are flooding our streets with drugs. Do you see it as a winning issue to defend the quote, unquote, rights of people who are bringing drugs into our country?

[Ro Khanna]

So there are two different issues with Venezuela. One is the fact that we're increasing our Marines in the region, where in Puerto Rico and other places, we're sending more destroyers and have a navy buildup. We're sending bombers and our fighter planes. And we're basically putting pressure to try to get a regime change with Madero. My view is that 80%, 70% of the American people are sick and tired of regime change wars. Don't want to spending our resources in that way. They dislike Modero. They hate his policies. They think he's a dictator. They don't think it's our business. They rather we spend money here at home. In terms of that separate.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

I can get on board a lot of that, actually, although I think it's mostly pressure. I don't think we're flipping the regime, but. But that's different than bringing drugs into our country.

[Ro Khanna]

So a lot of the focus, I think that the two have been conflated in, in terms of. In my view of how people are talking about it, because there's fundamental concern is stop giving money to Argentina and currency swaps, stop focusing on Madero, start focusing on western Pennsylvania, start focusing on war in Ohio. Like that, to me, is the essence of America first. Right? That's, I think, where a lot of the criticism comes from on the board.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

But wouldn't you say that blowing up boats that are bringing drugs into those places, I mean, I get you grew up in Pennsylvania. I mean, they have a huge, huge. Philadelphia has a huge problem with, with fentanyl and drugs.

[Ro Khanna]

They do things. But I. But as you know, because I know you're very thoughtful about these things, a lot of that's coming from China into Mexico and. And across into the United States. Venezuela is the cocaine trade, it's the narcotics trade. It's not fentanyl. And you know, to the extent we're negotiating with China, we should get them to schedule the precursors to fentanyl as narcotics. And, you know, I've been critical of the president's deal, but if he can achieve that in getting those precursors scheduled, that would be significant progress on the boat strikes, though. Look, we are not Russia. We are not Gigi Xi Jinping. We are Americans. We Have a higher, higher standard. And when there's a boat and there are two people who are surrendering saying, look, we don't, we're, we're done. We don't want to fight. Americans don't blow them up. Do other countries blow them up?

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Yes.

[Ro Khanna]

Are we.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

So have you seen the classified video that has not come out yet? That, that, that seems to be what people are saying. I don't know.

[Ro Khanna]

I'm actually going to see it this week. You know, I think Hex said, actually today is coming with Rubio to the Congress, and I'm on the Armed Services Committee. But I just think Americans, we believe we're a nation of faith. We're a nation founded on ideals of. I mean, I'm of Hindu faith, but we're founded on ideals of Christianity, of Judaism, of the Bible. Most people believe in the human dignity of every person. We, we don't like killing people without, without process and certainly if they're unarmed. Right. And I, I think we as a country hold ourselves to a higher standard. And Americans are a, in my view, we're a very decent, caring people. And, like, we don't like it to just be blowing people up if we don't have to.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Right. I see. I think all of that is true, except you can blow up drug traffickers, and it's. I just don't think most people care. They're killing our young people and they're destroying our cities. And so to me, this is. I understand the. Philip, that's why I asked you. In the philosophical sense, I understand the position, but I think in real politic, to me, this one is just a win for Trump. Again, neither one of us have seen the video, and I suppose if it comes off that this guy's waving a white flag and everything else, it might change the optics a little bit. But even that, I don't, I don't think so. We'll see.

[Ro Khanna]

We'll see. I mean, I think that the, it's the, it's a second strike of two people saying, look, we, we want to surrender. That gives Americans a sense of, of unease. And other Republicans on the Armed Services Committee who have had unease, and, you know, that to me, has been really refreshing because it makes me think, you know, we really take our responsibilities seriously as a, as a nation. You know, it's like GI Joes. We think of ourselves as the good guys. We don't want to be seen as, as doing bad stuff in the world.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

I wish I had a great GI Joe reference for that. That would be Something. Well, but I offer you a little advice for the Democrats, which is then go ahead and do more to clean up the city so people see less fentanyl fold. See less drug mayhem. I mean, Philadelphia is a disaster right now. Many of these cities are. If they did more on that and there was less of the obvious video that comes out every day, then people might be more sympathetic to the argument of, oh, we shouldn't kill all, all the drug dealers who are coming in. I think we could probably agree on that.

[Ro Khanna]

If you're going to say that we have an issue of an open drug culture in some of our cities and the Democrats need to do more to take that on, I say yes. And look at Dan Lurie, for example in San Francisco. I don't know if you followed his career. He came in, he's got 70% approval ratings. He's the first mayor in the last 10, 15 years who said, you know what? We can't just have an open drug culture near the Giant stadium. I'm going to crack down on it. We can't just have people who are unhoused having a drug culture. So, yeah, we need reform mayors, and Dan Lurie is a great example.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Wait, was that your way of saying that Gavin Newsom has been an abject disaster? Come on, come on, come on. That's kind of what you were saying.

[Ro Khanna]

Look, I think Dan Lurie has been far more effective as a mayor than Emma Gavin was there years ago.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

Could it have possibly been worse under Gavin for the drugs and the homelessness?

[Ro Khanna]

He was there so many years ago. But look, but there have been governance issues in California. We don't build enough housing. We did not do enough on the issue of homelessness. We have not done enough on the issue of basic public safety and drug culture. We've got high unemployment. That's one of the highest unemployment of the country. We've got to do more on jobs. We've got to do more on lowering costs. I mean, I know they always say, well, California has got the biggest economy. We've got the most manufacturing, we've got the most patents, and. Yeah, but what about the working class? We got to make sure that we don't have the highest cost of living and we've got to reduce that cost of living. So I'm all for reform in Sacramento.

[Interviewer (David Rubin)]

I think that was your way of sticking it to Gavin Newsom. So I'm going to shake your hand and thank you for coming in.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

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