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- [00:01]
Jacob Smith
From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena.
- [00:03]
Dave Rubin
From comedy gold to relationship fails.
- [00:06]
Jacob Smith
Amazon music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with Prime. Because the only thing that should interrupt
- [00:13]
Dave Rubin
your listening is, well, nothing.
- [00:16]
Jacob Smith
Download the Amazon music app today.
- [00:24]
Dave Rubin
The new gum health hero is here from Parodontax, the experts in gum care. Parodontax gums strengthen and protect. Strengthens the gum seal by killing plaque bacteria along the gum line for a stronger and tighter seal between the gums and teeth. Clinically proven to reduce bleeding. And now with hyaluronic acid for foaming action. Brush and rinse twice daily to protect against plaque. Keep gums tight and enjoy long lasting gum health. Strong gums healthy smile. Previously on the Ruby. Down.
- [00:56]
Jamie Michelle
Mouth down too.
- [00:58]
Dave Rubin
You guys will complain no matter what. He's here illegally. He can't read. Oh, you can't read. Would you like a license to drive a truck?
- [01:06]
Jacob Smith
Our trans community needs abortion care too.
- [01:08]
Dave Rubin
Isn't it true that Jamie Lee Curtis was born with a penis, Foreign. Ladles and jelly spoons? I'm Dave Rubin. This is the Rubin Report. And it's time for another Friday roundtable extravaganza. And we are debuting two new guests in one show this week. That's right. Joining me are political commentator Jamie Michelle and host of the moderate case, Jacob Smith. I don't often do this, guys, but I thought, you know what, let's introduce the wider Internet to two younger voices that I think are making sense. And I have to tell you guys, I have a great track record with this sort of thing. As you know, I did discover Candace Owens. So this bodes very well for you guys.
- [02:12]
Jamie Michelle
Wow. Well, it's an honor to be on here. I've been a fan of yours in the show for a really long time. And thanks for having me. I'm excited.
- [02:19]
Dave Rubin
Cool. Well, I'm really happy to have both of you. I thought maybe since it is your first appearance on the show, if each of you could just maybe just take a minute, tell people a little bit about what you do online. I really enjoy both of you. I think you've been really great outspoken voices in the last. So, Jamie, why don't we start with you?
- [02:35]
Jacob Smith
Sure.
- [02:35]
Jamie Michelle
My name is Jamie Michelle. I used to go by the gay who strayed online. I blew up back in like 2017 as being a lesbian for Trump. And ever since then just kind of been growing steadily. Then in 2022, I founded an organization called Gays against Groomers to fight back against the sexualization indoctrination and medicalization of kids happening under the guise of LGBTQ rights that blew up as well, took off national movement, having a lot of success with it. And I'm also, you know, a very, before anything, I'm, I'm just my own self and I have very strong opinions on things. And you know, I'm a proud supporter of our country, our, our president, and I am a very staunch supporter of Israel as well, which I think is relevant to note in these times with what we're up against from so many within our own party, or so they say these days. So I'm very vocally active about that topic. But I do want to mention that my personal views have no reflection on the organization. Completely separate, but I do, do I wear many hats. So it's great to meet you.
- [03:50]
Dave Rubin
Always good to get the disclaimer is out of the way up top. And yeah, you guys have done just great work in terms of separating these letters that have virtually, you know, the lg, the G and the B. Sure they can have something to do with each other, the T and the furry plus whatever, just have nothing to do with it. You guys have done a really nice job there. Jacob, I started seeing you on Instagram, I don't know, maybe about six months ago, just calmly watching videos that were usually nonsense, sometimes from mainstream media, sometimes from online influencers or whatever was happening in the news, and just calmly dissecting things in a really digestible way. So I'm really happy to have you here. Maybe you could just tell people about yourself for a moment.
- [04:29]
Jacob Smith
Yeah. So I'm Jacob. I run a platform called the moderate case. I'm 22 years old, so I'm on the younger verge of Gen Z. I've been making political content focused on conservative center right leaning topics arguments for many years now, since I was about 15, 16 years old. After October 7th happened, I vocally came out as a huge supporter, really staunch supporter of the Jewish nation and its right to exist and defend itself and the fight against anti Semitism, which has largely contributed to a big part of my platform. But I try to present arguments in a coherent, logical way, but also in a humanized way, knowing my audience, who I can talk to. Because some people, you just can't talk to them. But the screaming battles, the rage baiting and all that, that's for the, the Nick Fuentes is, and now the Tucker Carlson's of the world. And I don't think it's a good approach. It's necessary sometimes, but you also have to kind of, you know, boil things down on a human level and be able to talk to people. So that's what I try to do, to present reasonable takes, reasonable cases and debunk a lot of the nonsense that is floating around all across social media today.
- [05:36]
Dave Rubin
All right, well, let's see if you can do it for the next 45 minutes or so. Let's let's start with Tucker Carlson because you guys have both been really outspoken on Tucker. Jamie, you're doing most of it on Twitter with usual kind of quick retorts to him. And Jacob, you've dissected a lot of the nonsense that he's been spouting in slightly longer form videos. But I want to show you something from this week. We played it earlier in the week. Tucker quite literally made up, fabricated a story that there were Mossad agents running around Qatar creating chaos. This is what he said on his show.
- [06:09]
Tucker Carlson
So it's probably not hasn't been reported, but it's a fact that last night in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, authorities arrested Mossad agents planning on committing bombings in those countries. Now, that's weird. It doesn't make any sense. Why would the Israelis be committing bombings in two Gulf countries which are also being attacked by Iran? Aren't they on the same side?
- [06:35]
Jamie Michelle
No, no.
- [06:38]
Tucker Carlson
Israel wants to hurt Iran and Qatar and UAE and Saudi and Bahrain and Oman and Kuwait.
- [06:47]
Dave Rubin
Okay, so he tells that story. I heard it the day it came out, saw that clip. And I was like, all right, I've been saying for a while he lies about literally everything. And I mean that word literally in the literal sense. Everything he says at this point is a lie. And I was like, I bet you this is going to be debunked well within a few hours. This from open source intel. Qatari's Foreign Ministry denies Tucker Carlson's claims, saying there is no evidence of Mossad cells operating in the country. Subsequently, several other news outlets have completely debunke. So there's a couple things here. I think the three of us are largely in agreement that he's fabricating a lot of stories. And I'm open to listening to your opinions on why he's doing these things. He did not correct himself. He's done several other shows this week. And I just want to say as someone that does something similar for a living in that I tell people my opinions like he does, when I've made mistakes, I have no problem correcting them. And I don't. Even to me, it's like the height of absurdity and an insult to your audience. If you're going to lie to their face, be debunked and not address it. Jacob, let me have you take a stab at this one first because you've been doing a lot of debunking, including I think on this one when it comes to Tucker.
- [08:01]
Jacob Smith
Yeah, I think it's just nonsense. First, I would ask where on earth did he get this from? Obviously, Tucker probably has his own personal sources or intel. But I think it's important if you establish yourself as a legitimate talking head figure. Tucker Carlson is arguably the largest voice in the conservative space. You should probably double check your sources and make sure that what you're saying is factually accurate. It and we've seen reflections of this in people like Candace Owens as well. And all the smearing that she has done on the legacy of Charlie Kirk and his hand picked staff, his friends, his team, his wife, where she has said things that are blatantly false that have come out, been corrected. And maybe she makes a little statement here and there, but she doesn't openly apologize or say, hey, I got this wrong. So it's very telling of Tucker Carlson's character to see what he has devolved into of what was once this, this big anchor, you know, guy on Fox News who was credible, who people love, but now he's spouting all of this senseless stuff. So when it comes out that it never happened, it's like, where did you ever get this from, Tucker? Did you ever verify? And then he says that Israel is going after Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, all of these. No, the actual alliance that should be forming right now or that is realistically going to form right now as a result of all of this stuff going on with Iran, between Iran is an alliance with the Gulf states, with America and Israel in their fight against Iran, because Iran is throwing everything they have at almost every country. There are at least 13, 13 countries at this point that have been involved, many of them defensive, are just consuming things. Defensively, they're not taking the offensive. But at some point, you know, like Saudi Arabia, they talk a lot a big talk. They're going to have to do something. They're going to have to take the offensive and go after Iran because that's Iran's whole goal, destabilize the region, potentially shut down the Strait of Hormuz and pressure Americans economically and all of the other Gulf states to say that this is a war that America can't afford. And the fact that again, Tucker Carlson just ran with this before it was approved is really damaging to his credibility
- [09:53]
Dave Rubin
and it's also fascinating because it's Qatar, a country he's been simping for for the past year that is calling him out. His line exactly was this hasn't been reported, but is a fact. So Jamie, he knows these things are gonna be clipped. So when he gets debunked, I mean, I know you don't know what's going on in his mind but. But what do you think he. Do you think he believes the lie is just worth it no matter what? Because you can just keep, bring certain set of people along with you sort of the way Candace does, the way Jacob pointed out.
- [10:24]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah, I think it's funny you just brought that line up again, because that's what I was going to say. Like he said, it's, it's, it hasn't been reported, but it's a fact. So. Yeah. Where is he getting this from? Part of me thinks the demon that attacks him in his sleep is whispering sweet nothings in his ear, giving him like pointers for the next show. I don't know where it's coming from, but it's clearly very clear that he's a national security threat at this point. And he's no journalist. I mean he built his career on being really a respected journalist and a commentator and he seems to just be throwing his decades long career in the trash. Like his, his notoriety, his, his just everything that he is known for and was respected for. I think at this point, you know, anything that he hears or comes into his mind to say that could make Israel look bad even a little bit takes like precedence over integrity or the truth these days. You know, I don't like ever comparing people to Nazis. I think that it weakens the claim or the, the actual atrocities of what happened during Nazi Germany. But I mean at the rate this guy is going, I think that, you know, he's right. He's shooting his, his new career path seems to be aiming for the status of like Gables. And it's very scary to see and it's very troubling to me the people that are still left in our party on our side that refuse to call him out. It's disturbing seeing more and more join him the ranks of like this new ideology. But, but I'm very concerned about the people who I respected within our movement that stay silent and pretend like he's the same man he was at Fox News Safeway.
- [12:09]
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- [12:40]
Dave Rubin
Right. The strange part as it pertains to the movement is, I mean, there is quite literally nobody on the right in America who is more anti Trump than Tucker. And yet he was at the White House a week and a half ago. I suspect those invites are going to start drying up. I want to show you one more that'll kind of illustrate your point about his obsession with Israel and lying around to take a look.
- [12:57]
Tucker Carlson
But also, as someone who wishes Israel no harm, to think through clearly, what's going to be terrible for Israel, and one thing that would be terrible for Israel is getting hit with a hypersonic missile. What would Israel, which is a country the size of Maryland, how would it respond? How could it respond? Well, it might respond with nuclear weapons, which it has and which it has threatened to use before and which is it has implied it might use many times. One of the reasons you can't let Israel go alone is they imply like, hey, don't make us go crazy and do something wild. And that would include the use of nuclear weapons. Not saying it's gonna happen, God forbid, but it could.
- [13:32]
Dave Rubin
Jacob, as someone that has studied this guy and you really have, I mean, first off, there's just a general inauthenticity about the way he speaks. You know, his voice going up and down, the hysterical laughter he keeps. It's like he's trying to pretend to be someone that is authentic, and that makes it less authentic. He says he wishes Israel no harm. I mean, he literally lies about Israel. Every show, including that he said, which they have now, it's not confirmed or denied, but they've never confirmed or denied they have it. Nuclear weapons. Most people seem to think they do, but the idea that they've been threatening people with nukes is completely absurd. There is a country that has been threatening to use nukes if they ever got them. That's the country he seems to like very much right now.
- [14:14]
Jacob Smith
Right. And that's also the country that lied about their capacity or the threshold that they were enriching uranium. Multiple attempts to block IAEA inspectors from accessing their facilities. Iaea. Multiple reports saying, hey, it's above civilian use. It's all they've claimed we just want it for civilian use. No, they don't want it for civilian use. They've very clearly passed that threshold. But in terms of the nuclear opacity of Israel, because that's what it would be called if you actually want Israel to be safe, you have to think about incentives and worst case scenarios, not just these slogans. Of all, they threatened to do this multiple times. When have they done that? Again, I would ask Tucker, when has Israel said we're going to use a nuclear weapon? The only thing that they could ever refer to is probably the Samson option. And there's a lot of context there. Also, Israel, as Tucker said, is not the size of Maryland. It's roughly the size of New Jersey. Maryland is almost one and a half times bigger than Israel. But Israel has very little strategic depth. So if it were to be hit with something catastrophic like a, I don't know, a nuclear weapon from Iran that would overwhelm its defenses and cause mass casualties in a very quick matter of time. So they don't have the luxury that larger countries like America or Iran, with tens and tens of millions of people, America, 350 million people, of absorbing that blow and just regrouping. Which is why the escalation risk matters with a small state that would face an existential threat. Israel has never said, oh, we're just going to do this because we want to. No, it's in the face of an existential threat. It's not because nobody wants anything nuclear. But when a leader believes that the survival of their country is at stake, the logic of deterrence changes. And that's what nuclear weapons are. It's deterrence. And they've long maintained that policy of nuclear ambiguity. They don't either, like you said, confirm nor deny that they have nuclear weapons. But the entire purpose of that is to posture is to make enemies think twice about pushing the country into a corner where the leaders have to feel like they're choosing between national destruction and extreme retaliation. And historically, Israel would not be unique in that kind of deterrent signaling. Every nuclear armed country has some version of the same logic. I mean, during the Cold War, America made it clear that nuclear weapons would be used if the Soviet Union threatened the survival of any NATO countries. The Soviet Union maintains similar doctrines. The modern Russia doctrine still states nuclear weapons could be used if the existence of that state is threatened. Pakistan has openly said that their nuclear arsenal exists for the purposes of being to prevent being overwhelmed by India's much larger conventional military in France and the UK as well have also Both built nuclear deterrence on the principle that any threat to the survival of the state could trigger nuclear retaliation. So it's not unique to Israel. Small state threatened by people who have since its inception. I wanted to wipe it off the face of the map, so it's understandable.
- [16:52]
Dave Rubin
So I promise we will get past Tucker here. But Jamie, I want to show you this video of Jeremy Boring, former CEO of the Daily Wire, Jeremy Boreing, talking about. And you can read into this whether he's talking about Tucker, Candace, perhaps both of them, maybe others, about what is happening in sort of the online influencer space right now.
- [17:13]
Jacob Smith
And they're using the techniques that have been used by cults throughout history, which. It is a weakness in the human being that when someone shows us that we've been lied to, we immediately trust them. If someone comes along and says, you've been lied to your entire life, your immediate thought should be, man, I'm gullible. I should be careful what I believe. Instead, it's now you're who I trust. Tell me more. And so it's a very powerful tool, a very powerful form of persuasion to tell people that everything they believe is a lie. It's a lie because everything you believe is not a lie. But of course it's true that you've been lied to.
- [17:52]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah.
- [17:52]
Dave Rubin
So, Jamie, I love this clip and I love the fact that Jeremy is suddenly on the scene again because he obviously was involved in Candace's rise, as was I, and I'll pay for it one day, I suppose. But he's making an interesting point. You know, mainstream media lied to us about so much stuff. Very fine people. Hunter Biden laptop, Covington kids, Kyle Rittenhous, Covid, obviously. I mean, we could do the laundry list that it pushed sane people towards the online media. I believe, and I think you guys believe you have a responsibility to tell the truth. Doesn't mean you're going to get it right all the time. But another type of person acts in a cult like behavior and will just keep running with the lies. So to me, he's. I mean, he's talking about Tucker there. I think it's fairly clear.
- [18:35]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah, I think he's talking about Tucker and Candace probably. And he's right. You know, I was actually really excited about the online media space when it started gaining a lot of popularity with shows like yours and theirs and, well, not, not so much Candace or Tucker, but other people in the space that were gonna combat the mainstream media and their lies. I think everybody hates the mainstream media at this Point. But so my excitement over the past year, year and a half really, since October 7th, let's, I guess that's probably more accurate, it has faded and now I'm quite horrified by it that just anybody can come out and make outrageous claims with no proof and gain a massive following very quickly and go viral and basically take control of or at least very heavily impact the news cycle and reality. Really like the perception of reality at least. Yeah, it's very scary. And like you, I'm very glad that Jeremy Boreing is making a comeback and being more vocal and hitting hitting shows again because I mean, his voice is very needed. He's a great guy and you know, we need more people like that speaking out against these lunatics who are trying to hijack the party. So yeah, I'm a big fan of Jacob. He's right, yeah.
- [19:56]
Dave Rubin
Jacob, let me ask you as somebody that calmly, I mean, what you do on your channel, it's very similar in some sense. You do it in a more bite sized version. But what I try to do is use clips to illustrate what people say versus what they said before, et cetera, et cetera. So as someone that calmly lays out what's going on, what do you make of the type of person that is just constantly using trapdoors with their audience? It's always on tomorrow's episode, we'll get the truth and this is the next thing. And the story continues. I mean, it's literally what soap operas were in the 80s. Tune in to tomorrow's exciting episode of General Hospital and find out if she killed her lesbian brothers, cousins, uncles, nephews, niece. That was a great episode by the way.
- [20:38]
Jacob Smith
It's just the incentives of social media. Like Jamie said, the mainstream media has been fractured. People don't trust the mainstream media anymore and it gives or enables a path for independent voices. Even people who are once famous for being involved in other networks or that had big voices and big platforms like Tucker and Candace, but also just random people. And one of those people is me. And I tell people, judge what I say, don't look at me and what I believe. No, judge what I say, critique, whatever, whatever I say. Evaluate the argument, the facts and deal with them, deal in reality. So it is dangerous that, you know, you can have these people who are incentive driven. Social media rewards algorithms or the algorithms reward outrage and monetization. I posted a tweet the other day that said, if you want to get rid of half of these idiots and morons in this AI slop, one warn them if they do it again, demonetize them and if they do it a third time, ban their account for this AI slope. But it's monetization. Whatever gets clicks and views. Oh, come back to the next episode. I'm going to rant for an hour and a half about something and I'm going to tell a bunch of lies. I'm never going to correct them. That's what Candace does. Tucker. I think Candace is stupid. I think Candace Owens is genuinely a stupid person. I think Tucker is smart. And the way that he goes about doing it, like in his recent interview with Mike Huckabee, he's very slick in how he maneuvers around the conversation and how he tries to frame things, like saying Mike Huckabee said that if there was a 14 year old Hamas member guarding a hostage, sorry, but you're gonna have to take him out. That's just how the world works. And Tucker says, well, I would never want to kill a 14 year old. I would never kill a child. Tucker, if a 14 year old ran up to you on the side of the street and pointed a weapon at you, what are you going to do? Ask him how old he is or are you going to defend yourself?
- [22:15]
Dave Rubin
So it's just how about beheaded your daughter, right?
- [22:18]
Jacob Smith
Or if they, if they proportionally in comparison to America, if they took, it would be thousands of hostages like they did with Israel. As a ratio, if you adjust for the population, if they took back thousands of American hostages and they were guarded by 14 year olds, is the American military going to say, oh, well, we can't strike them, we can't go do anything because they're 14 years old now. So I think in this clip what Jeremy is pointing out is that there is really. And you kind of see it everywhere now. There's this weird psychological thing where the easiest way to gain somebody's trust is to start by telling them that they've been lied to. Because nobody likes realizing that they were misled. And it makes you feel stupid, it makes you feel angry and there's always somebody to blame. So when a person shows up and says everyone else has been lying to you, but I'm going to tell you the truth, people are going to latch onto that immediately. But the ironic part of that is that the moment you realize that you've been misled about something, the rational reaction should be to actually become more cautious, to evaluate things with more scrutiny and not to instantly just trust the next person claiming that they figured everything out. Because the reality is that yes, people get lied to sometimes. Government do it, media does it, politicians do it. But the jump from, well, some things you've been told aren't true to everything you believe is a lie, and I am the only one telling you the truth is exactly where manipulation starts. And that's why it works so well. Because once someone can convince you that everyone else is lying, they've removed every other source that you might use to question them, and now they're the only voice left and you have to listen to them and take them as credible. And that's how Tucker's framed himself. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.
- [23:42]
Dave Rubin
Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself.
- [23:55]
Jacob Smith
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- [24:07]
Dave Rubin
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- [24:20]
Jacob Smith
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- [24:42]
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- [25:11]
Dave Rubin
So I want to do just one other quick thing on on this woke right situation because I thought this tweet from Nick Fuentes was quite interesting. I haven't done much on I don't care about the kid really. I think he's a gay furry or something. It doesn't really matter to me. But what I think is interesting is that he was the one person that Charlie Kirk did not want in the MAGA movement or anything else. And Tucker went out of his way within two months of Charlie's death to mainstream this kid. But he wrote this. I'm voting Democrat in 2026 because white people can play both sides, too. The GOP broke every single promise. Epstein file cover up regime change, war in Iran and no mass deport. GOP must be purged and burned to the ground in 26, hostile takeover in 28. Jamie, there's a couple interesting things here. I mean, putting aside that Tucker sort of elevated this kid. I think he voted for Kamala last time or told his audience to vote for Kamala. So it's not as if he's been some Trump person in the first place. We are doing the deportations. I would argue you should do more. So I can almost agree with him that maybe there should be more. The Iran war is going extremely well. I don't think there's anything conservative or MAGA about, about this kid at all, which probably explains why Tucker elevated him, because I don't think there's anything MAGA about Tucker anymore.
- [26:30]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah, no, 100%. I, I find it so funny that there were some more moderate voices within our party that are, you know, big on big social media people or podcasters who were saying that they're not going to attack anybody to the right when. When asked if they're, you know what, why aren't you calling out Nick Fuentes and other people like that? And that was their explanation. Nobody to the right.
- [26:51]
Dave Rubin
You know, you can say her name. You can say her name. It's okay.
- [26:55]
Jamie Michelle
What? Candace?
- [26:56]
Dave Rubin
Megan?
- [26:57]
Jamie Michelle
Oh, yes, exactly. No, Granny Groiper. I see. I know her as Granny Groiper now. Not Megan. Yeah, but, you know, it's so silly and funny and an obvious lie because clearly people like Nick Fuentes and the Groipers are not right wing. Like Horseshoe Theory, I think, is the undefeated champion of the past few years, consistently showing that it's like 100% true, that the further you go, right. The more close you are to the farthest left. Like, it's just, you know, it's a, you all know, shoe theory. But that's what we're dealing with here. And so, you know, now that he's blatantly and openly calling and saying that he will vote for Democrats and telling his followers to also vote for Democrats, I wonder if they're. If their attitude will change and if they'll call him out or was that just a cover because they want his audience, they want his numbers. That's all these people care about. People not calling that out. They, they, he, they're trying to appeal, you know, the people, the, the Broipers and Nick, they're getting the signal loud and clear, just like all of us are, that, you know, they're, they're groiper friendly. So it's all about money and clicks. The, the well being of our nation and our security be damned. And it's pathetic really that this is, they're still doing it, it and, and getting.
- [28:14]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, yeah. So Jacob, let me ask you a slightly different angle on this, which is as someone that is 22 and involved in the kind of underbelly of the Internet and tracking these things, how much influence do you think this frog griper thing actually has outside of just kind of trolls and video game guys that don't get out of their basement and everything? Like how much actual influence is there, do you think, by Fuente saying vote Democrat, does it actually move the dial or just does it create social media headaches that none of us know exactly how to quantify?
- [28:48]
Jacob Smith
I think it's just a social media headache and I think that's his whole goal. Again, this is a guy who lives based off of outrage. He is a nihilist. And these takes, it's what you're a conservative. Nick Flint says, what are you conservative on? Strictly foreign policy and Iran. To say that, you know, in his tweet that the GOP has done nothing, the Trump administration has done nothing, that's a spit in the face. Like I said, it's just political nihilism. And he dresses this up as him being some, you know, effective political voice. But if you were to actually care about what he said in the tweet, immigration enforcement, Iran policy, or any transparency around the things like Epstein voting for the party and encouraging other people to vote for that party that is further away from those goals, just to burn everything down, doesn't increase any leverage, it weakens it. Right. You know, politics is coalitions.
- [29:32]
Dave Rubin
Right. The craziest part of all of this, for anyone that's frustrated, look, if you're the most like, not racist, anti Semite, whatever, but if you're just like the most hardcore libertarian on the planet right now and just have that as your personal position, I think that's just fine. But if that's going to drive you to voting for the Democrats who want to open up the borders and want no American influence anywhere and like that to me is just nuts, but let's leave that there. I want to jump over to something else because, you know, a lot of people Thought that. And Piers Morgan titled his book Woke is Dead. And I had him in studio, and I said, I don't know if that title is going to work out right for you, because this thing does not seem like it's going anywhere. It just kind of morphed into a few different directions. And, Jamie, I know this one is near and dear to you, so I want to show you this Steve O. Who some of you may remember, I interviewed this guy, like, 15 years ago, and he was on Jackass. He went on Rogan, and they started discussing what's going on with trans people and bathrooms. And take a look. Listen.
- [30:30]
Jamie Michelle
They described to me a level of
- [30:33]
Tucker Carlson
oppression that genuinely broke my heart. They said, hey, let me tell you,
- [30:38]
Jamie Michelle
like, I am not allowed to use
- [30:40]
Tucker Carlson
the bathroom at my own place of work.
- [30:42]
Dave Rubin
We've got, like, that's not true.
- [30:44]
Jacob Smith
They're just not allowed to use the bathroom. It doesn't align with their biological sex. Okay, but you got to realize they're not all. Listen, I genuinely think there's people that. That feel like they are in the wrong biological sex. Sure, right. But there's also people that are perverts.
- [31:03]
Jamie Michelle
I just thought, man,
- [31:07]
Dave Rubin
I heard what they had to say about, you know, politicians trying to put them in internment
- [31:12]
Jacob Smith
camps, and who's doing that? What politicians are saying they should be putting internment camps.
- [31:17]
Dave Rubin
There was some kind of.
- [31:19]
Jacob Smith
There might be one kook out there that's saying that to try to get attention. There's no movement to try to put transgender people in internment camps.
- [31:26]
Dave Rubin
Okay, well, then I'll land on this.
- [31:29]
Jacob Smith
Do you know who's killed more people than ICE this year? Trans shooters. Do you know the majority of these high school shootings have been transgender people?
- [31:38]
Jamie Michelle
I did not know that.
- [31:40]
Jacob Smith
Yeah.
- [31:40]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, good on Rogan there. The reason I wanted to show you that clip, Jamie, was. I know none of that surprises you as someone that's been trying to remove the T letter from the LGB thing, but for all the people that think WOKE is dead, to me, there are still literally millions, and it might be hundreds of millions of people who are still brainwashed with this stuff. It's just not going away, is it?
- [32:05]
Jamie Michelle
I think that, you know, there's an illusion almost with Trump as president that things are better. And some things are. Like, there are so many hospitals that because of the Trump administration's threats to withhold Medicaid and stuff, that they are stopping the mutilating, surgeries and chemical castration, drugs being given to minors. But the actual people in this country, I don't think the mentality has really shifted that much. It's just the leadership in charge is not allowing the insane policies to continue. So no, I think anybody that thinks that woke is truly dead is mistaken and is in for a shock if Republicans ever lose power again, which, which I'm sure will happen, especially if the gripers do hold a little more weight than just online, which I don't think is true, but who can say for sure? Yeah, so no, things are better now, but overall there's still a major problem. And I love how Joe Rogan called out Steve O. I mean, for such a hardcore dude, this Steve O guy, he, he seemed like he was about to break down in tears over a man not being able to urinate with women.
- [33:12]
Dave Rubin
So, I mean, the guy, the guy has been dropped on his head hundreds of times and kicked in the balls more than like, like basically anybody since, you know, Bob Saget on America's Funniest Home Videos. But let me, let me jump to this for a second because if you think that the Democrats are done with this stuff, this week in Texas, Jasmine Crockett, who is as crazy far left as you can possibly get, she lost the Democrat primary to somebody who is even crazier. His name is James Talarico. Take a look.
- [33:42]
Jacob Smith
Poverty, violence, pollution is violence. And yes, prison is violence.
- [33:51]
Dave Rubin
Every one of our neighbors with a uterus became the property of the state. Before we go further, I want to acknowledge that our trans community needs abortion care too. Defending trans Texans is something we have to do every day at the state capitol.
- [34:09]
Jacob Smith
I want us all to be aware
- [34:10]
Dave Rubin
of is that that modern science obviously
- [34:13]
Jacob Smith
recognizes that there are many more than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six.
- [34:18]
Dave Rubin
The second way we can tell Jesus was a feminist was through his teachings. Jacob, as a first time guest, I'm actually just handing you a gift here.
- [34:27]
Jacob Smith
Go. I didn't even know much about this guy until I saw him blowing up on Twitter for some of those outrageous claims and statements like you've been saying, yeah, Jasmine Crockett's, she's insane. I thought it was funny that she was trying to claim that there was some type of election integrity and that they were actually cheating. She kind of insinuated that that was the case.
- [34:46]
Dave Rubin
She said the Republicans were cheating, but it was a Democrat primary.
- [34:50]
Jacob Smith
I mean, yeah, so it's like it's, I thought we weren't supposed to question election integrity and we were just supposed to outright accept the election results. Even though Hillary Clinton went on for years saying that it was illegitimate Nonetheless though, this, this James guy, he's. I don't like the fact that he tries to use this guise of Christianity and how he displays his arguments as a Christian. Again, there's all different denominations and ways that people believe and interpret the Bible. It's a spit in the face. There's clear interpretations biblically. And if you're going to make the case that you shouldn't intertwine that with politics, then that's your case. But if you are, it needs to be biblically rooted. And he is a complete distortion of Christianity and what it means insofar as how it should be applied to the political discourse and our policy positions. The idea that there are more than two sexes or science objectively proves that is blatantly false. There are not. There are. Or that that doesn't exist. There are only two sexes. I would love to hear of, of the other four and just all of the other. I mean, I think he's kind of like centered his whole campaign on the social issues that I thought we left back in 2020 and 2021. So if your biggest policy objective is to say that or to frame everything as it's oppression that biological men can't go pee in the same bathroom as women and to say that that poverty is. What did he say? Violence and that prison is violence. No, prison is where you put the people who commit violence to get them off the streets to make our society safer. She's just a complete nut job.
- [36:13]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
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- [36:44]
Dave Rubin
The fact that Jasmine Crockett, who calls everyone racist or calls Republicans racist, was dethroned by a white progressive is just like the perfect picked cherry on the top of this thing. Let's jump to a couple other things. So there was video. This is, I thought this was just really interesting and something that probably doesn't get talked about enough. But there was a hearing in Congress. It was for. It was called Lost and Exploited. Confronting Child Trafficking and the Failure to Protect America's Most Vulnerable. And Tim Tebow, who at one time people thought was going to be a major NFL star and that, never quite panned out, has become a major advocate against child trafficking. And here's just a portion.
- [37:24]
Jacob Smith
Every one of those red dot maps is a unique IP address that is
- [37:28]
Dave Rubin
downloaded, shared or distributing child rape images.
- [37:31]
Jacob Smith
Almost all under the age of 12. And that's just a six month screenshot of it. And there are over 338,000 on there. There's blue dots on there, you can't really see them, but the blue ones are the ones that are under investigation
- [37:42]
Dave Rubin
in a sea of red.
- [37:44]
Jacob Smith
Isn't that a problem of what we're talking about?
- [37:47]
Dave Rubin
Jamie, do you think, think Congress is ever going to do anything about these types of things or is it just. It just always gets kicked down the road for some strange reason?
- [37:57]
Jamie Michelle
It seems like it always gets kicked down the road. I mean, clearly not much is being done about it. If that whole sea of red exists, which I didn't see that before, that is. Can I say, I don't know if I can swear, but that is effing disgusting. We have a serious pedophile problem in this country, clearly. And the fact that it isn't like the number one issue all the time says a lot, really just about our leadership and what they care about. As the founder of Gays Against Groomers, this is the most important issue to me personally, the well being and safety of children. I don't understand how people can see an innocent child and want to harm them or view them in a sexual way. I can't believe that we live amongst these people like they're just walking amongst us and clearly we're around them all the time. But I hope, you know, with an advocate like Tim Tebow, God bless him, I hope that this is taken more seriously because it needs to be. It's long overdue that this is still such an issue and a problem.
- [39:02]
Dave Rubin
Yeah. Jacob, you think we ever start doing some things about these types of things?
- [39:06]
Jacob Smith
I hope so. Again, it's a completely ignored, for the most part issue. And just fundamentally, any society that fails to uphold its obligation to protect the most vulnerable children as a civilization, they've lost, it's, it's just lost all bearing. So. But I think what often gets missed in the political landscape today is that again, we spent enormous amounts of energy arguing about cultural issues, about being ideologues, people out, outrage farms on Twitter, just people being divisive. These partisan narratives are ideological battles. While something like this, which should unite people across every line, left, right, man, woman, child, grandfather, grandmother, it doesn't get the same sustained attention. Child exploitation networks exist because predators rely on the secrecy and the fragmentation that social media and technology has provided to them. And again, there are so many incentives and good things with social media and being able to spread information. But there's also downsides, there's bad effects and people just look the other way. So it's good that Tim Tebow with a large platform tries to bring attention to it. Whether, you know, he, you share his religious language or not, a lot of people are immediately going to hold that against him. The underlying point still matters. These problems don't go away on their own. They get confronted when people actually decide to start protecting the vulnerable and they decide that that is an optional or secondary but a fundamental responsibility of a decent society.
- [40:27]
Dave Rubin
Yeah, I also think it's. Go ahead.
- [40:29]
Jamie Michelle
I want to add that besides just social media welcoming these predators and giving them a place to thrive and continue to abuse children, the trans community like this, just free, where all you have to do is say you're a woman and then you're a woman, is opening the door for pedophiles and predators as well. I mean, so many are, are just saying that they're trans. Gain access to a women's locker room with naked women and children or hopefully not children, but you know, like where, where women and children are. Yeah, and yeah, that, that's also a major issue that, that needs to be confronted and that's why we're trying to fight so hard against it.
- [41:05]
Dave Rubin
And just quickly, it's worth reiterating sort of what Jacob said right there, which is that because everything becomes so partisan and used for politics, it's even like the Epstein stuff. The Democrats had the House and the Senate and the presidency didn't do anything about it then they thought they could get Trump on it. So they're all into it, while the Republicans used to be against it. Like it's, it's all so freaking backwards. But okay, let's not end on that. We'll end with a little more granular stuff on the war situation. Cause obviously that, that is the big story right now. And across the pond they've got this guy, Keir Starmer, and I'm telling you, he's Michael Scott without the sense of humor. Here he is on whether the UK will get involved. The long standing British position is that the best way forward for the regime and the world is a negotiated settlement with Iran where they give up their nuclear ambitions. Now that's why I took the decision that the UK would not join the Initial strikes on Iran by the US and Israel. Now, that decision was deliberate. It was in the national interest, and I stand by it. But when Iran started attacking countries around the Gulf and the wider region, the situation changed. Iran has now fired drones and missiles at 10 countries that did not attack them. These are allies of the uk, Jacob. His name is Starmer, but it should be Stammer. I mean, did he not think that within days something was going to happen and he would change his opinion on this? Also, you know, we played a video earlier in the week. He was at a Ramadan celebration telling all the Muslims there how he wasn't going to join America and Israel and Palestine. This and the rest of it. Like, yeah, man, Winston Churchill. This guy is not.
- [42:47]
Jacob Smith
Absolutely. He's no Winston Churchill. The virtue signaling that this guy has given. And all of the other leaders in Europe, for that matter, turning a blind eye to the literal Islamization of their continent is despicable. It is a fact that it is going to take over. Just if you look at the birth rates, the European women, they just don't simply have replaceable birth rates to even maintain their own population. And they're doing nothing about it. They're saying, oh, economy sucks. So we're going to import all these backwards people from world. From systems that have world views that are completely antithetical to ours, and it's going to fix our economy instead of actually trying to help the people there. But, yeah, it's stupid. What did he expect? The UK obviously has an obligation to be in alliance with not only Israel, but America and just the Western alliance and fighting Iran. And I don't know, I'm tired of politicians in the west succumbing to the interests of Iran. Iran. He says that they're not going to get involved in the strikes and we need some type of negotiation. Well, we kind of tried negotiation before Trump decided to strike. We kind of tried negotiation with the JCPOA under. Under Obama. What did Iran do? They spit in our face. They take advantage of us. Why? Because they literally think we are infidels. People have to understand, these people don't think like us. They don't think like Westerners. They're politicians. They don't think like it. Anything that can progress their goal, that can give them progress and their goal to achieve whatever they want to achieve, they're going to do it. And if that comes at sacrificing their own lives, they don't care. They're martyrs. They go get their. Whatever. 70, 72 virgins in paradise is What I've been told, it's what I've read, but it's just. That's what they say, but it's just we've tried it. They spit in our face. They lied to us, they lied about their nuclear program, they blocked inspections, negotiations were exhausted. And there comes a time, and I'm glad to see it, that there's finally a leader in the world who is taking a stand and carrying out some real material action against a regime that has chanted death to America for 47 years and whose first action was to kidnap our people for 444 days. Their first action in 1979, after they came into power of the Ayatollah. It's about time.
- [44:46]
Dave Rubin
And by the way, it's interesting that he waited a couple days, then got to see that America and Israel basically destroyed the Navy, took out the political leadership, took out the religious leadership, have total air dominance and everything else. And it's like, oh, now the UK will get involved, cuz everyone's afraid of the uk And Macron kind of said the same thing about France. Jamie, on the Islamization issue, it seems to me I had Tommy Robinson in here a week ago today, last Friday, and he was talking about how basically a guy like Starmer, he's just a hostage now to his own constituency, even though there's a more radical party out there now, the Green Party, than his own Labour Party. So what do you make of what's going on there?
- [45:26]
Jamie Michelle
Well, regarding the war, I actually saw a really funny tweet that relates to this. It was like a list of Muslim countries that have come out in support of the strikes against Iran. And it was a bunch of actual Muslim countries. And then it was Muslim countries that came out against the strikes in Iran and it was like European countries, but it's Right, France. Yeah, France, uk, Germany, I think, or something like that. I don't remember exactly, but it was so funny because that's literally the case. Like, like Jake said, the native population will be replaced. I mean, they are going to be the minority very soon, I think, like within the next decade probably, which is a horrifying thought. And at this point, Starmer seems to be completely beholden to the Muslim population of Britain rather than the native population. So I'm not sure what he's going to do there. And, and it's very scary and I don't understand how anybody in America can see what's happening there or what has happened there. I mean, it's really almost complete. How do you even fight against it, at this point, point and, and are like, yeah, let's, let's bring that over here. Islam isn't a threat. What are you talking about? You know, it's the Jews. Sorry, but I've never heard a Jew say baruch hashem. And then people blow up all around. It's never happened, I don't think anywhere documented. So it's, you know, but, but when, when, when a Muslim says Allah Akbar, allua Akbar, whatever, Aloha, snack bars, My, my version is easier to say, but, you know, they duck and cover, they run because, because people tend to blow up.
- [46:50]
Dave Rubin
So let me show you guys one last clip to end on. I thought this would be a nice way of putting a pin in the show today, because one of the. There's two things that kind of brought the three of us together. Free speech of America and a free Internet. And that's what we're all doing with our lives. And that's why people hopefully tune in and share their thoughts as well. But in the uk, they don't have the First Amendment and they are very quickly losing a free Internet. So I want to show you this new UK government ad and watch the chilling effect on free speech that they are, I would argue, not so subtly doing here.
- [47:22]
Jamie Michelle
I just got all my devices taken away by the police. My mum couldn't believe it. I might get a criminal record and not be able to go to college. I only shared a link. I just thought it was funny. But it was terrorist content and that is not a game, it's real life.
- [47:43]
Dave Rubin
Okay, so there's so many layers to this thing. So of course they take a white kid and he somehow thought it was funny to share a terrorist link implying. So maybe it has something to do with white terror or something. But really, of course, what they want is for the average kid out there not to say mean things to politicians, or they want the average mother who's not happy with the immigration situation to say something about it or push back against Starmer or anything else. Jacob, do you think that the UK in particular is just fully cooked? I mean, you sort of said that earlier, just on the demographic side, but do you think sort of ideologically, do they have a way out of, of this?
- [48:23]
Jacob Smith
Well, the demographic shift is bringing in a completely antithetical ideology to what established Britain and Europe. So they're, they're cooked in that capacity, but they're also cooked by the policies that the, the current democratic leadership is pushing. And I think that is, it's a, it's used to the Detriment of a lot of Western countries and democracies is that people who aren't democratic, who don't care about our processes of government, our institutions and our civilization, they take advantage of it and they weaponize it. And that's exactly what has happened. They have framed Islamophobia in the UK by definition as racist. Well, the last time I checked, anyone can. Can be a Muslim. It doesn't matter the color of your skin. And this is also. I was going to touch on this a little bit earlier. You're dealing with a civilization right now that is being demonized. If they. If they are of the belief that they should preserve their culture, their institutions and what built their society, and that is fundamentally dangerous, that leads to the collapse of a society. You add in all of the immigration, the parallel institutions, the Sharia courts, all of the mosques, the open public prayer, the birth rates. It's only a matter of time. And any functioning society or civilization should have the backbone to stand and defend its principles. What built it at a fundamental level. The whole point is that if a bunch of white guys were to just up and leave and say, we're going to go move to Zimbabwe, white Christian guys, or Kenya or someplace in Africa, the population there in those countries would probably have an issue with the demographic overrun of this new immigrant population. They would like to preserve their culture. Culture everywhere in Africa, in Asia and everywhere else is allowed to do it. But in the west, we have so focused on being, you know, the beacon of democracy and acceptance and diversity that. That we're committing cultural suicide. And the fact that, you know, ads like these are going out trying to pressure kids or emotionally get at them for stupid things like. Like this. And actually speaking their mind is fundamental to a free society, to be able to have free speech. I have friends who have been arrested in the uk, UK for talking about certain political issues and certain religions. And it is. It's insane. It's so sad to see, actually.
- [50:22]
Dave Rubin
Yeah. I mean, supposedly I'm going to London in June for the next Jordan Peterson's Art conference, and it's like, at what point will they just stop letting people in who are outspoken? I mean, I. I don't think that's too far off. Jamie, you get the last word.
- [50:35]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah. Well, it seems that the UK has taken 1984 more as an instruction manual than a work of fiction. That video is terrifying, that ad. And, yeah, it's very clearly, you know, having a white boy in it. It's very clearly not talking about Islamic terrorism, which is the Actual threat that the UK is facing. But, yeah, I mean, when are they going to just start arresting people when they get off planes? They arrested Graham Linehan for calling man a man. You know, like, it's. It's totally warped.
- [51:06]
Jacob Smith
It's.
- [51:06]
Jamie Michelle
It's.
- [51:07]
Dave Rubin
And who's a comedian, by the way? People don't. We should have covered that story more here. I met him a few weeks ago.
- [51:11]
Jamie Michelle
Yeah, he is a sitcom.
- [51:13]
Dave Rubin
Right.
- [51:13]
Jamie Michelle
I believe is what he did with his life. Yes, it's incredibly disturbing. But as Jake was saying, it's always so funny how only white countries are the ones that have to import millions of people and replace their entire population with people who are not like them, who do not have the same culture, beliefs, traditions, anything. Even though white people are the majority of. They're like 7% of the world, the global population. So I think people are starting to see through it. I hope Europe can do something, but I don't feel great about it. I don't see how it could happen. But luckily, we can still do something here. I hope.
- [51:50]
Dave Rubin
Jamie Jacob. First time, not the last time, I promise. I thank you guys for joining. And we are bringing back this week in the Internet. This week on the Internet, as the Ayatollah got fired with extreme prejudice and as everyone became an expert on foreign policy overnight, the Internet is more concerned with whether or not Iranian women are the Latinas of the Middle East. Well, that's where we are as a civilization, guys. Missiles are flying in and out of Iran, and the first thing guys think is cool, but who are those hot women? And naturally, Silicon Valley tech virgins saw that and thought business opportunity. Yeah, that's right. There's now an app that lets you find dates in a bomb shelter, which actually does make some sense, because these days, you're free. First date might also be your last. Kids. This is the story of how I met your mother and why you glow in the dark. On another note, Ayatolli. On another note, Ayatollah Alireza Arafi was killed on his first day as Supreme Leader. So if you're complaining about your first day on the job, just remember, at least you made it to day two. Speaking of world leaders, Keir Starmer released a video this week showing how hard he's been working on the crisis. Oh, my bad. I meant a stage video of him pretending to take a phone call about how he doesn't have to take phone calls. Imagine being the trans Muslim staffer shooting that. Righto, Prime Minister. Pick up the phone, stare at it. Now do nothing. Great. You know what this kind of reminds me of? Well, I just fixed it. And that's why, Keir Starmer, you are this week's number one wanker. That's a British word. If you thought the only war going on right now was in Iran. Well, there's also a massive burger CEO war happening online. McDonald's started it when their CEO went viral trying the new Big Arch burger and the poor guy could barely swallow a bite. Then Burger King jumped in and their CEO took a massive bite to outshine or as the kids say on the Internet to out MOG McDonald's. And so did A and W. So the Internet's now wondering, what's your move, RB's CEO. And of course, let's be honest, we all know what that move is. It's banging the flaps off a roast beef sandwich because they've got the meats. You get it? Get it. And if you don't think that'll make roast beef a new category on OnlyFans, you've obviously never spent time on Reddit. And that's not the only news from the fast food industry. Wait until you hear about what a former McDonald's employee was up to this week. He used to work in the drive thru window and now he's reshaping the Middle East. That's right. This week on the Internet, a Qatari Simps multi million dollar nicotine shipment was hijacked. My crack team did some digging and we actually found out who stole it. Except after he tried those Indian made pouches. He went from Joe Camel to Joe Chemo. I mean, who doesn't feel sick when using nicotine pouches made from a country whose all natural, beautiful clear water looks like. Like this. And this leads me to my last point. This week on the Internet, we learned social media is really just a social experiment that got way out of hand. Remember in school how they used to separate kids? You know, you had the honors classes for the Marco Rubio types. You had regular classes for the Mike Johnsons. And then of course, you had the class where the teacher spent most of the time teaching the Jasmine Crocketts of the world. That glue is not to be sniffed. And it worked because not everyone learns the same way. And more importantly, not everyone should have the same side megaphone. But social media came along and said, what if we took the smart kids, the average kids and the Ding Dongs and put them all on the same platform? And that is the Internet. We took the brightest minds on the planet and sat them next to people who think whiteness is a disease. Yes, that's real. And the problem isn't that dumb people exist. They always have. The problem is now that they have wi fi and an X account to post stuff like this. Did they teach you in Sundays school that Jesus Christ himself was a radical feminist? So if we're going to survive, we need to bring back an old concept from school. Not censorship, just a little sorting. Because if every idea like bone smashing, yes, that's a thing gets treated equally, the of the world will start running the group project. And that my friends is this week on the Internet.
- [56:44]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature select boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for $2.97 per pound limit. One plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5 member price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit Safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.